To rework a line from those garish billboards which make the kids ask embarrassing questions, Australia is suffering from election problems.

You didn't get this from me but…

The quaint notion that voters get to decide who does or doesn’t run the country has been challenged during the past few shambolic years in Canberra. I know, I know – it’s up to the Caucus to elect a leader from its team of MPs. But there is a widely-held and completely understandable public view that when that leader goes to the polls, and receives a popular mandate, their continuing employment will be decided by a general election, rather than covert conversations by king-makers and trouble-makers.

It’s why the hurdy-gurdy leadership transitions by State Labor governments over the past decade have usually failed. It’s also why federal Labor is in the mess it is currently in. By dumping Rudd in record time back in 2010, the factions and the Caucus failed to realise the extent to which voters would regard their conduct as an act of gross impertinence, an usurping of the power of the popular ballot. It was this act which martyred Kevin Rudd and he has capitalised on his martyrdom ever since.

It has rendered Julia Gillard terminal even if she wins on Monday. If the Caucus doesn’t get her by going for Rudd or another candidate, the voters definitely will after this paralysing, top-shelf chaos.

The chaos has come after an extended period where so many Australian voters have felt disenfranchised. It’s not just because of the perceived impertinence of the 2010 leadership transition. It’s also because of the cursed “victory” of Julia Gillard where by forming minority government with a disparate packet of ratty inner-city Greens and rural independents, so many issues for which the Government has no popular mandate have been foisted onto the national agenda, and pledges have been shredded (none bigger than the carbon tax) to accommodate their demands.

The conduct of these people has often been a genuine affront to democracy. Take Independent MP Rob Oakeshott. In a breathtaking suggestion, Oakeshott has now indicated that despite his previous position that he made a deal with Julia Gillard and would only support her as Prime Minister, he might be prepared to switch to the Coalition, as long as the Party Room agreed first to dump Tony Abbott and install Malcolm Turnbull.

With people such as Oakeshott in Parliament it seems wasteful to have elections at all. Maybe they can just draw up a roster and take turns running the country. Or we can just leave it to some bloke who lives in Port Macquarie to decide not only who forms the Government but to also pick the Leader of the Opposition.

Another undemocratic feature of the way politics has come to be played is the use, or arguably misuse, of the off-the-record convention in political reporting out of Canberra. The accusation against Kevin Rudd – that he has continuously briefed senior editors and senior journalists to destabilise Julia Gillard – has become a major feature of this fight. I am certainly not about to breach any confidences. But I would note that there have been so many published unsourced stories which have been negative towards Gillard’s leadership, and talking up the prospect of Rudd comeback, for which there can only be two explanations.

The first is that every one of these journalists simply made all of them up.

The second is that Kevin Rudd and/or Kevin Rudd supporters brief senior editors and senior journalists.

This is not necessarily a new thing but the scale and ferocity of these types of stories is. Historically the off the record convention, whereby people can talk to reporters with guaranteed anonymity, existed for two reasons. The first was to protect whistle-blowers and other sources from retribution, a la Deep Throat in Watergate, meeting Bob Woodward in an underground carpark to hand on information about the Committee to Re-Elect President Nixon. The other was to add more nuance and context to a story by fleshing out background details around a news event.

The type of stories we have seen about the Labor leadership could be described as dump-and-deny. They have done newspapers damage, with Rudd habitually popping up on the day any anti-Gillard story appears to declare himself a happy little Vegemite, reinforcing the understandable public suspicion that a story containing neither names nor attributed quotes has probably been fabricated by some half-drunk hack in an ash-covered tweed jacket. As the unbridled and open hatred between Rudd and Gillard is now demonstrating, these stories were not even close to being fabrications.

We in the media should reflect on our complicity in this type of journalism. It’s my view that we have not only damaged ourselves, but more gravely we have let down the public by feeding them stories which look thin, tendentious, convey deliberately misleading sentences to blur the origin of the information.

Take Rudd’s press conference on Friday where he flatly denied ever running down Gillard to anyone in the media, then quickly demanded that the assembled media remember and respect the off the record convention.

Why the urgent reminder?

And if he had in fact ever criticised Gillard on background, what does it say about political journalism that we would rather knowingly play along with the bullshit and keep the truth from the public, out of respect for a clubby and highly questionable journalistic convention.

So much of this has been turned into a parlour game for the political class, whereby both politicians and journalists know more than they would ever be prepared to tell a confused, fed-up public which forlornly wants the country to be governed.
In passing, I’d also note that the irony is that a lot of these stories are also so bloody boring that they wouldn’t sell you a newspaper or get you a click anyway. I apologise for adding to your boredom and hope the remainder of your Sunday is free of this political carry-on.

211 comments

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    • Erick says:

      05:12am | 26/02/12

      Gillien versus Ruddator - whoever wins, we lose.

    • Claudia viculorum says:

      11:28am | 26/02/12

      The female will beat the male every time
      It’s natures way

    • Ricky-B says:

      11:54am | 26/02/12

      Haha, spot on Eric. Its like choosing between the runs & the flu! smile

    • Rosie says:

      01:43pm | 26/02/12

      I totally agree and the Opposition shouldn’t take delight in the sorry state the Gillard Labor Govt have managed to not only demoralize the Labor brand but the people of this nation. Erick is right we are all losers for it!

      I honestly wish the mob in Gillard’s camp, after listening to Anthony Albanese, common sense and passion would prevail. I know if like Albanese I was passionate about my political party and my country I wouldn’t have hesitated and followed his footsteps for the very reasons he emotionally said in his speech.

      Thank you David and yes we are fed up to the hilt with the behaviour of those mainly in the Gillard camp. It seems they haven’t taken into account that the nation, the people and the Labor brand are bigger than their invested interests and egos.

      What we have had to endure only happens in Banana Republics, never in my wildest dream I would see it happen here in Australia.

      The public needs articles like this to begin the healing process to restore trust and respect to the govt of the day and the PM, even if the Gillard Labor Govt won’t use common sense and do the decent thing - give back to Rudd what Gillard took away from him.

      Using this misfortune to anyone’s advantage is not the Australian way! The Opposition must be very careful how they use it for political gain otherwise the attacks on Tony Abbott will only worsen. These guys have nothing to lose now. The wounds in Labor supporters will remain raw for a very long if they are really passionate about the Labor brand. I am disgusted with people like Richo, he is no help to anyone!

      I wish someone would remind the Labor Party that a leader, doesn’t matter who it is, is only as good as his or her team!

    • Farken says:

      02:02pm | 26/02/12

      so you want to be over taxed and have bad infrastructure under the LNP

    • Rosie says:

      03:07pm | 26/02/12

      @Farken

      It ain’t the time to score political points attacking Tony Abbott and his team. You and the likes of you are no better off than Gillard and her team, calculating and will do or say anything to defend the indefensible. The truth is out and one can only despair at what we now know about PM Gillard and the Labor Govt she led after ousting Rudd.

      Yes the vast majority hunger for elections resulting in a LNP majority Govt but before that happens the nation needs to heal from being duped, humiliated and lied to by none other than Gillard and the so called faceless men. At the moment I am prepared to be over taxed and put up with the old infrastructure for a stable honest alternative.

      PS Tony Abbott should be congratulated for what the Coalition said about the Rudd Govt was repeated by Gillard and what they said about the Gillard Govt was repeated by Rudd. Rudd and Gillard rubbished each other to win the votes of their colleagues. Pathetic!

      Once again, great article David!

    • Robert Smissen of country SA says:

      03:25pm | 26/02/12

      Farken, I think you post is farken stupid, there is only a LNP in Queensland, there are not nor have there ever been a LNP federral MP

    • Joan says:

      04:30pm | 26/02/12

      Who ? I know the Coalition luvvies have spent the last 4 years trying to come up with nicknames instead of ideas for a better Australia, but those are hopeless.

    • Oh no says:

      06:02pm | 26/02/12

      We’ll lose Erick, when the Liberals win the next election with virtaully no policies and a bunch of very dodgy financials backing the few that they have. I’m gutted by what’s going on, not because I’m that invested in Labor - I’m not really -  but because the whole fiasco is taking the place of the proper political debate that we need in this country.

    • RyaN says:

      06:36pm | 26/02/12

      @Farken: Unfortunately that will have to be the case to pay off this ridiculous level of debt this Labor party has spent us into like a bunch of pissheads.
      Unless of course you think billions upon billions of dollars just grows on trees? You know like Rudd and Gillard do!

    • meinsydney says:

      09:36pm | 26/02/12

      I don’t think we lose if Rudd becomes PM tomorrow, but that’s looking highly unlikely.  But irrespective of the result, the damage the Gillard team has done to the party is irreversible in the foreseeable future.  After seeing Swan, Crean, Ellis and others carry on in such a nasty, vindictive way this week,  I have less than zero respect for them now, and if Rudd doesn’t resume the leadership, as much as I dislike Tony Abbott, I trust the Liberals to run this country far more than I trust this current mob of idiots (with the exception of Albanese, Carr etc who came out supporting Rudd). 
      I don’t understand how they could all be so stupid and so short sighted, and let their vindictiveness cloud their judgement the way they have.  They may win tomorrow, but their celebration will be short lived.  I feel bad for the ones that want to right the wrong done to Rudd in 2010, but look forward to seeing the rest of them lose their jobs at the next election…and who would hire them when it’s so obvious they’ll publicly tell nasty stories about their boss at the first opportunity.
      If Rudd doesn’t become PM again tomorrow, I want to see Parliament dissolved asap…it’s time these politicians learnt that they are there to serve the people, not themselves. 
      As for leaking to the press, personally, I don’t have a problem with it.

    • Borderer says:

      08:52am | 27/02/12

      @Oh no,
      You are aware an opposition as it’s title implies, is supposed to oppose the government and hold them to account. The government are the ones who have to come up with policies, that’s their job. I know words like job, work and responsibility are confusing after having to deal with our current government but the opposition really have no responsibility to come up with policy until the election where they are expected to fulfil them should they win power, unlike the present lot.  In some instant the opposition may suggest courses of action such as reinstating the Nauru solution but they, like the voting public have given up on the government as they instead blundered their way through various other solutions, failed in the high court and then when they couldn’t convince their own allies to support them blamed the opposition. Bad policy is worse than no policy, no policy doesn’t cost anything.

    • Pickles... The Drummer says:

      12:00pm | 27/02/12

      @Farken - A little political history lesson would tell you that over taxing is a thing of the left, or Labor, and poor infrastructure is a thing of the right, or the coalition. The two rarely combine.

      Oddly enough awesome infrastructure peaks on the far right and degrades either side of it with the far left typically having worse infrastructure than the moderate left (Facism vs Communism vs Labor)

    • Sarah says:

      01:03pm | 27/02/12

      @Rosie and @Erick

      I couldn’t agree more with the both of you.

      @Farken - grow up.

    • Gravelly says:

      05:42am | 26/02/12

      If a Liberal government were in power now, going through the same preposterous blood letting, the denizens at Fairfax and the elites at the taxpayer funded ALPBC would have been baying, nay screaming for the heads of all concerned. That some obnoxious little man, detested and rejected by his own parliamentary party, is lauded by sections of the media in his presidential quest to regain what he and his family see as some sort of family business or franchise, beggars belief! God help Australia!

    • Noms says:

      08:03am | 26/02/12

      @ Gravelly,,,Accurate and concise,The real winner is Tony Abbott.It would that his characteristics of decency and ethics combined with a good head for policy are found to be repugnant amongst the entire Labor demographic,not to mention the buffoons of the digital media dept labor use to disseminate propaganda for the dull and challenged

    • Denny Crane says:

      08:27am | 26/02/12

      You are right. The lefties would say that exactly the same would be happening if the Coalition were in power but thats garbage. that is what you lefties like to think to justify poor behaviour. Labor of the past would not have acted in such a disgusting manner and neither would the coalition of the present. It is only disgusting people like Rudd and Gillard who would subject us to such trash. Shame on Windsor and Jokeshott for supporting such rabble.

    • Keith Hammersmith says:

      10:58am | 26/02/12

      You cant draw this back to The Liberals Gravelly, it has nothing to do with them.  I know its all labor supporters can say now, is somehow deflect the situation, but the problem is, this is a major embarrassment for this country, and in the mean time, who is governing?  Either way, Gillard or Rudd, it is obvious neither of them are putting the country first.

    • Geoffrey Spannerjones says:

      02:21pm | 26/02/12

      Hi Keith. To answer your question, Ms Julia Gillard is governing - she is the currently elected Prime Minister. What happens is that all the big people gather around every couple of years and cast their votes to decide who will represent them in the nations capital Canberra - that’s a funny name isn’t it? Anyway, when the votes are counted, all the elected people who are members of one “club” get together and decide who is their leader. The “club” which has the biggest number get to be the boss until next time the people vote. The “club” which doesn’t get to be boss is allowed to whinge and moan and call for new elections until that election is held, when they will almost certainly be boss. I hope this answers your question.

    • Rosie says:

      03:17pm | 26/02/12

      Have pity on the poor souls! Before they even think about the healing process from this nightmare, they would have to first get themselves out of the deluded stubborn stage. All Australians were affected but some of us have moved on to the healing stage. This article was for our benefit, please use it.

    • John says:

      04:36pm | 26/02/12

      If a Coalition government were in power now, they would have had to have won an election.

    • year of the dragon says:

      07:06pm | 26/02/12

      Geoffrey Spannerjones says: 03:21pm | 26/02/12

      “Hi Keith. To answer your question, Ms Julia Gillard is governing - she is the currently elected Prime Minister.”

      She may be Prime Minister but she sure as hell isn’t governing.

      John says: 05:36pm | 26/02/12

      “If a Coalition government were in power now, they would have had to have won an election.”

      Very true John. However, it is any comfort, at the last Federal election there were more conservative candidates elected than non-conservative. Can you just imagine how many conservative candidates will be elected after this latest shemozzel.

    • Keith Hammersmith says:

      08:31pm | 26/02/12

      @ Geoffrey Spannerjones, thanks for your condescending answer to a question that you didn’t actually understand.  The point of asking “who is actually governing” is that whilst the biggest domestic argument this country has ever seen, is being played out, the Country suffers. Whilst all the labor head honchos take time out of their days to slander rudd on TV, they aren’t doing the job they were elected to do… no one elected any labor member for this crap to be played out on a national stage. Its embarrassing, childish, and come election time, will not be forgotten.

    • Just saying says:

      02:17pm | 27/02/12

      @John
      Are you sure you shouldn’t be saying “If a Coalition government were in power now, they would have had to have more independents side with them’”

    • Cobbler says:

      05:59am | 26/02/12

      “I know, I know – it’s up to the Caucus to elect a leader from its team of MPs”

      This one line highlights that you knew this article was moronic but wrote it anyway.  People being ignorant of how the political system works is their issue, not the political systems.

    • Fiddler says:

      08:15am | 26/02/12

      No Cobbler, what they are saying is the system while being followed is not being used as intended and pointing out dissatisfaction

    • Bitten says:

      09:08am | 26/02/12

      That’s the sort of argument despots run Cobbler - “I get to decide who is Minister of Health and it’s going to be my second daughter’s husband, ok?”

      Just because it’s ‘the way things are done around here’ doesn’t mean it’s right. And doesn’t mean it shouldn’t or CAN’T be changed.

    • kc says:

      09:38am | 26/02/12

      Disagree completely Cobbler. People have a general expectation of democracy. If they do not feel that the system provides this democracy, then yes, there is an issue with the system. Just because we’ve not been in a position where the country has been held to random for cheap political game for some time (the means corruption or dictatorship in most countries btw), doesn’t mean we should just sit back and accept it. You’re argument is like Gillard’s - something happened therefore it must be right. How about saying, that’s the way the system works, and hey, people have an issue with it.

    • Nick says:

      09:50am | 26/02/12

      Is it ignorance?  The Westminster System operates under a large number of conventions.  What are the conventions surrounding changes of leadership of the political party holding power?  Once the elected members started aligning themselves with political parties it seems to me that the convention has been for the prime minister to either put their position on the line in an election, or to hand over leadership to someone else and then retire.  If a party departs from that convention then they owe the public an explanation or the public has every right to question the integrity of the party.  In the last few years Labor has broken that convention repeatedly in NSW, Federally in 2010, and to some extent in SA last year.  I agree the letter of the law is that they are within their rights to do that but I think it is a significant departure from past practice and needs to be questioned.

      I’ve never worked in the public sector but nowadays I live in Canberra and so far as I could tell it was widely accepted here that Rudd was a nasty piece of work and utterly dysfunctional - it’s been a bit of a suprise to me to discover that not everybody was aware of it.

    • Gerard says:

      10:56am | 26/02/12

      “Just because it’s ‘the way things are done around here’ doesn’t mean it’s right. And doesn’t mean it shouldn’t or CAN’T be changed.”

      But that’s not what’s being said, is it? Where are the proposed amendments to the constitution? It seems everyone wants to throw the constitution (to use Rudd’s expression) “out the back door” because they don’t like the way the system currently operates- another favourite practice of despots.

    • Bazza says:

      12:39pm | 26/02/12

      So why do the Parties put so much emphasis on their Leaders during an Election campaign. Because they want us to believe their leader will make the best PM.

    • Docrob says:

      01:22pm | 26/02/12

      One of the principles of any democratic system is that the system works as the people see fit to make it work. Like it or not the people feel disenfranchised when a party knifes the leader they were presented during the election campaign and the leader who the electorate has given a mandate to. In a party system where dissent means ejection why would you expect people to vote purely for a local member when the local member is only going to be beholden to the party and the leader? Now labor and its supporters can choose to stick their heads in the sand and say the people don’t vote for a prime minister the caucus does, but I assure you the people feel they gave Rudd a mandate and the near unprecedented swing against labor under Gillard in 2010 was the first proof of that. The current signs of an electoral wipeout under Gillard in 2012 is the next step in learning the lesson that the people did in fact choose a prime minister, they chose Rudd and they still do choose Rudd. Labor will ignore it again at their own peril.

    • Condor says:

      01:52pm | 26/02/12

      Completely agree with Cobbler. We elect people to represent electorates. If those peopple choose to run under the banner of a party it is irrelevant. Same as who they choose as their leader.

      Bitten
      If the second daught’er husband is an elected member of parliament then the leader is perfectly entitled to choose whoever they want to be Minister of whatever

      kc
      The people have democracy through who they choose to represent their electorate. There is nothing in our Constitution about political parties. Just because some candidates choose to run under the banner of a party means nothing to our democracy

      Nick
      The people have a chance to question things every election. They did before and Labor still was able to form government with the Greens and 2 Independents. It’s convention that where a majority of members can prove that they will act in unison on many issues that they form government. The peopple will have another chance next election. Looks like Labor will lose and maybe hey deserve to do so because of the way they have handled many things.

    • marley says:

      02:14pm | 26/02/12

      @Gerard - there are options to the present way of doing things that don’t require constitutional change.  Under the Westminster system, the leader of the Party with the most seats becomes PM.  Fine.  The issue here is who is the leader of the Party, and that’s not a constitutional matter, it’s an internal party matter.  If the ALP were to institute democratic reforms of its own structures, including allowing all party members a vote on the leadership instead of restricting it to caucus, for example, that would not require a constitutional change, but would large eliminate the factions and much of the reason for the current debacle.

    • Gerard says:

      03:52pm | 26/02/12

      @Marley

      I don’t see how such a reform would change anything. The ALP could still change leaders mid-term and the same howls of protest would be heard.

      I believe the problem is caused by voters expecting a result that is unobtainable under the current constitution. In the lower house, each electorate picks a local member. A single MP. You’re not even voting for a party really, since MPs can resign from their party, or change parties at any time, while keeping their seat.. Some (most?) people vote based on who a particular candidate has said they will support as PM, but such a promise is unenforcable under the current system. If the public wants to elect the prime minister directly, then a change to the constitution is required. No one is asking for this though. They simply want it to happen under the current laws, which is, of course, impossible.

    • Harvey says:

      04:43pm | 26/02/12

      So if political parties don’t get to choose their leaders, who does ? If it’s us, what happens to Independents ?

    • marley says:

      05:41pm | 26/02/12

      @Gerard - well, based on what happens in countries with the kind of process I’m talking about, it takes a party convention to overturn a party leader.  That’s obviously not very likely, but it is possible, with a sitting PM.  But at least, the PM (or Opposition Leader) can say, I represent the ALP/Libs and not just a faction or some backroom deal.

      I live in NSW and I’ve seen what changing Premiers at the drop of a hat or an opinion poll has done to the ALP brand.  It’s not a democratic party, and until it reforms, it won’t be. So, why the hell should I vote for a party that advances people based on connections and not merit?

      And you can make the same argument for the Libs, but they don’t claim to be “progressive”.

    • Green Power says:

      06:08am | 26/02/12

      “a disparate packet of ratty inner-city Greens”

      I’m so hoping that Abbott wins the next election…watching him crawl on his knees to The Greens in the Senate will be wonderful to watch. Go ahead and make my day Abbott, I can’t wait.

    • TimB says:

      08:17am | 26/02/12

      Watching him call a DD and have the electorate wipe these smug hypocrites from the senate will be even sweeter.

    • TM says:

      08:28am | 26/02/12

      Hey Slime Power, a DD will be in order to dispatch the socialist Greens to the bottom of the garden where they belong. When Bob retires the Greens will implode. It will be wonderful to watch and I can wait.

    • Flutz says:

      09:05am | 26/02/12

      He won’t have to - if Gillard remais as PM (as seems likely) the Coalition will most likely win the next election with such a majority, the minor parties and independants will be largely irrelevant

    • Ken says:

      09:38am | 26/02/12

      He would call a double dissolution and the people would turf the Greens out on their arse as well.

    • GB says:

      10:07am | 26/02/12

      @Green Power. That smarmy comment there perfectly sums up what is so odious about the Greens and their followers. Do you think that if Abbott, as most people expect, wins the next election in a landslide, he won’t dissolve both houses as soon as is practicable? Yours and the rest of your BS “environmental” party’s hubris has been on display for all to see ever since you took the BOP in the Senate, and it started with your leader on election night. If you seriouosly think Australians want a repeat of the current farce of a parliament you’re deluded. But enjoy your short-lived 15 minutes of fame. You’ll go the way of the Democrats before too long.

    • Green Power says:

      11:19am | 26/02/12

      @ TimB and TM - You both should read up on Double Dissolutions of parliament, they don’t happen instantly, the senate and lower house must twice fail to agree on a piece of legislation, a period of three months must elapse between the two rejections of the bill by the Senate, I could go on, but I’m guessing it could be too complicated for both of you…in the meantime, I will get to see Abbott gnashing his teeth at his inability to deal with The Greens…how sweet it will be.

      @ TM - Calling people silly names does not help you argument.

      @ Flutz - You too should read up on how elections are run in Australia, it is extremely unlikely that voters will give Tony Abbott a majority in both houses of parliament (he has to win the lower house first), and a general election calls for only a half senate election, it is in the senate where The Greens hold the balance of power, again, how sweet it is.

      I will reiterate what Cobbler says above…

      “People being ignorant of how the political system works is their issue, not the political systems”

      Ain’t that the truth Cobbler? As shown here on The Punch, and mostly from Liberal sycophants.

    • Little Joe says:

      12:06pm | 26/02/12

      Why do you think that Bob is so worried about Abbot becoming PM??

    • TimB says:

      02:02pm | 26/02/12

      Did I say it would happen instantly?

      Greens decide to be stubborn pissants. They block legislation. 3 months later they do it again.

      Boom, DD and they’re swept from office. The Greens have 6 months at best to survive after the next election. Unless they get with the program and don’t act like (to paraphrase Penbo) a pack of inner-city rats.

      Or if we’re really lucky and Flutz is proven right- Abbott wins with such a thumping majority that the Greens don’t have the numbers to stop him.

      The third option of course is that the soon to be decimated Labor pary simply rolls over and lets Abbott excercise the mandate he’s given by the voters. Thus making the Greens completely irrelevant.

      Stick around Greenieman. You’ll see just how sweet it turns out to be.

    • Tony says:

      02:39pm | 26/02/12

      Here we see the huge intellect and impeccable character of the ‘green elite’! In Abbott’s shoes my first action would be repeal of the carbon tax. The Green’s would vote against it in the Senate and bingo, double dissolution with the outcome assured.

      Of course if they are smart the Liberal’s will put the repeal into an immediate budget. Block the budget, block supply, double dissolution…..

      Scenarios are endless but one outcome is assured, within a short period of time Abbott will be PM with control of both houses of parliament.

    • Terry2 says:

      03:16pm | 26/02/12

      I think I agree with Oakeshott: Abbott remains a pariah. In the construction game you use wrecking balls for demolition, architects for vision and tradesmen for creativity and construction.

    • Green Power says:

      03:17pm | 26/02/12

      @ Little Joe - “Why do you think that Bob is so worried about Abbot becoming PM??”

      For the very same reasons that everyone else (except for rusted on Liberal supporters) believe. He can’t be trusted and he is disliked by the majority of the general populace. If this wasn’t true, he would have won the 2010 election easily (an unlosable election). Why do you think he lost the last election? He even said himself, don’t trust or believe everything I say unless it’s written in blood.

      Work-choices is not a good option for the average voter / worker. All workers should be very wary of Abbott; more jobs will be lost in the first term of an Abbott government than we have ever seen lost in the first term of any previous government.

      You’ve all been warned…vote for Abbott at your own peril.

      @ TimB - Rubbish, you’re assuming that the Green vote will be decimated, what we are currently seeing with the unravelling of the ALP will play into the hands of The Greens. The Green vote will increase at the next election, and more power to them.

    • Mark says:

      04:48pm | 26/02/12

      @littlejoe

      Same reasons as everyone else.

    • TimB says:

      05:26pm | 26/02/12

      @ Greenoid, I haven’t assumed any such thing. I posited such a scenario to occurr *only* if we were ‘really lucky’ (or unlucky in your case).

      Most likely- The central swinging voters who voted ALP last time will swing to the LNP in an attempt to block the tax. Any rise in the Green vote will come from the already reeling ALP.

      And if the Coalition get enough of a vote (entirely possible- It happened in 2004 after all) then the ALP and the Greens will be outnubered by the Libs in the senate. It will require an extremely strong showing from the LNP. But it’s doable.

      And if the anti-Carbon tax sentiment is high enough, the backlash against the ALP will translate to an anti-Green backlash too. Especially in any DD called specifically to dismantle said tax.

    • GB says:

      06:29pm | 26/02/12

      @Green Power: “he would have won the 2010 election easily (an unlosable election).

      Bullshit. FAIL. He was behind in every poll leading up to the last week of that election. Gillard’s poll numbers got a huge spike when she usurped Rudd and she called an election immediately to cash in on them.

      “All workers should be very wary of Abbott; more jobs will be lost in the first term of an Abbott government than we have ever seen lost in the first term of any previous government.”

      Please back this ridiculous assertion up with some facts. Just because you say that’s the case that doesn’t make it so. Quit parroting your Green comrades.

    • Duncan of Doonan says:

      09:59pm | 26/02/12

      Hey Green Power.Your ridiculous and ill-founded beliefs represents a lot less than 5% of voting Aussies.I would love a true PM like Tony to declare a double dissolution and remove your cancerous rubbish.
      The Greens are the rats on the rubbish heap of Labor’s stupidity.

    • MarkF says:

      06:40am | 27/02/12

      A double dissolution should do the job nicely to sever Bob Brown’s stranglehold on this country.. and don’t think for a minute that people will have forgotten about the role the Greens have played in this BS Labor Government.  Meanwhile the coalition will win so many seats it will be NSW all over again for Labor and I will wryly smile as they are reduced to an insignificant and impotent political party.  Gillard or Rudd? Who cares!, the winner will be the captain of theTitanic and will be going down with the ship.

    • Little Joe says:

      09:10am | 27/02/12

      @ Green Power

      Most of the people that I know, ex-Labor supporters, want to get rid of this retarded government. The only people who are scared of this change are -

      Labor MP’s ..... obviously.
      Green MP’s ..... obviously.
      Oakeshot and Windsor ...... obviously.
      Union Officials ...... no more legislated kickbacks.
      Rusted on Greens and Labor supporters who run around attempting to scare and/or intimidate people.

      Word is finally getting around about how debt is $45B higher (or 50%)than that predicted in the budgett hat the ALP took to the 2010 election. . People are finally starting to understand that the wafer thin surplus budgeted in the 2011-12 MYEFO will see an increase in debt. The government now pays approximately $12B in interest. Labor cannot run a budget ..... they cannot run the country!!! All these wonderful socialist changes are not sustainable nor affordable.

    • acotrel says:

      06:08am | 26/02/12

      The Rudd/Gillard thing happens in office politics in Australian businesses every day, why should Canberra be any different ?  It never helps when a competitor on the sidelines keeps slipping in a mickey finn, or gets his mates to conduct guerilla warfare against the company. In the end none of this matters.  Rupert Murdoch will choose who will lead the next government.  Democracy has nothing to do with this.

    • davo of Thorneside says:

      08:15am | 26/02/12

      I am not sure you are even sane, after reading your comments for 18 months. lol. Anyway, keep it up, you ALPers are a wonderous species. Including the journalists, who I hope, the Tories sort out properly during the next 20 or 30 years of rule

    • marley says:

      08:21am | 26/02/12

      Still trying to blame the Rudd-Gillard pissing contest on Rupert and Tony, are you?  Why not sheet the blame home to where it actually belongs - a dysfunctional, undemocratic, faction-ridden ALP?

    • TM says:

      08:22am | 26/02/12

      Got any proof that Rupert will choose the next government?

      You’re full of shit, troll!

    • Denny Crane says:

      08:34am | 26/02/12

      Obviously you have never worked in private enterprise. This would never happen in private enterprise as Gillard would have sacked Rudd and he would be practising his nastiness elsewhere allowing Gillard to ply hers alone.

      Actually business would have sacked both their incompetent arses by now. No company could continue to trade after being so openly deceiptful and deceptive. In all probability Gillard would be in Goal for releasing a misleading prospectus. Why should politics be any different?

    • Bitten says:

      09:09am | 26/02/12

      You’re such a credible source of information acrotrel - we keep forgetting you’re a fly on the wall in a position of authority in large-scale private enterprises all over the country. Idiot.

    • kc says:

      09:40am | 26/02/12

      This is about our PM! Our PM! The person elected to represent us around the world, and make decisions on our behalf. How does that in any way relate to office politics. And no, there are not people sacking their boss because they don’t like them all around the world. Just doesn’t happen. Crap system imho.

    • Mr Pod says:

      11:47am | 26/02/12

      @Denny Crane - Rudd would have moved to ‘Special Projects’ an amusing title that highlights privilege is never lost, even if you are more useless than a jelly hammer.

    • Stephen T says:

      12:24pm | 26/02/12

      @ acotrel: It is not healthy on your part to nurture such bitterness of spirit, collectively Labor are reaping what they themselves have sown, no one else is to blame.  Education and honours they may have but their wisdom seems sadly lacking, truly they behave worse than a pack of wild dogs turning to rend themselves over the prize taken.  Foolish articles, with their ascent to Government it seems that they have found something bitterer than a desirer denied in their desire fulfilled.

    • skip says:

      01:29pm | 26/02/12

      What a load of rubbish if this happened in office in Australian Businesses then they would not have job as only the Government would carry on like this as they are being paid by the Taxpayers and do not have to worry where their next pay cheque is coming!!!! You are a fool acotrel as I have been reading your comments for days!!!

    • Oh no says:

      06:15pm | 26/02/12

      Don’t forget Gina - she’ll have a say as well.

    • Rhonda says:

      06:26pm | 26/02/12

      Green Power’
      Greens and labor only use workchoices when they are desperate, everyone else is so over that old one.Do you think that FWA is an improvement?There is a new strike every week now.

    • year of the dragon says:

      07:23pm | 26/02/12

      acotrel says: 07:08am | 26/02/12

      “The Rudd/Gillard thing happens in office politics in Australian businesses every day”

      I’ve worked in private enterprise for over twenty years and, whilst I’ve encountered my fair share of psychopaths, have never, ever encountered anything that even approaches the dysfunctionalism of the ALP.

    • year of the dragon says:

      07:28pm | 26/02/12

      acotrel says: 07:08am | 26/02/12

      “Rupert Murdoch will choose who will lead the next government.  Democracy has nothing to do with this.”

      Apart from the fact that the leader of the government is a party matter and not an issue from the electorate, please tell us why he chose Gillard to lead the last Government after choosing Rudd the last time.

    • Rosemary says:

      06:13am | 26/02/12

      An internet search gives me the following explanation of the ‘Fourth Estate’:

      “The notion that the Press is the fourth estate rests on the idea that the media’s function is to act as a guardian of the public interest and as a watchdog on the activities of government.”

      So tell me David, over the last few years, just how many of Canberra’s inner circle of journalists and commentators have truly proved themselves as being of the ‘fourth estate’. How many instead play footsies with Labor Governments because politically they believe in the same values. Indeed, just how many scrutinised the Greens before the 2010 election? Too few, and their numbers could be counted on one hand.

      If the media had done its job instead of propping up at first Rudd, then Gillard/Brown, then Australia wouldn’t have found itself in this mess to begin with. Australian voters would have been properly informed as to the truth about our poltiicians and political parties, and made an educated vote.

      Perhaps it’s time the Australian media wholly represented the interests of Australians. Forget protecting politicians who whisper one thing into your ears only to deny it the next day. Do they deserve protection? I think not. They are big and ugly enough to wear any consequences. If they cannot stand behind their words and deeds, then they are in the wrong job.

      Give the power back to the people. New election NOW!

    • Mickey T says:

      08:51am | 26/02/12

      @ Rosemary - With all due respect Rosemary, unlike yourself, not everyone needs the media to do their homework for them, a simple internet search prior to the last election, gave me all the information I needed regarding all the political parties, all of their policies are clearly listed on each of their websites. With a little further searching, you can usually find information on each of the parties candidates standing for election, it’s not that difficult!

      The people had the power when they voted at the last election, you obviously don’t like the result and therefore you believe that we should have a “New election NOW” - Apart from your rant about the media being to blame, give me one valid reason why we need another election NOW?

      A leadership spill within the ALP is not a good enough reason for a new election.

    • WhoDat says:

      09:55am | 26/02/12

      “Give the power back to the people. New election NOW! “

      Julian Disney, chairman of the Australian Press Council, has produced a report on an academic survey of the 2010 election that gauged public confidence in key institutions. Out of 14 institutions, the press ranked last - only 17 per cent had confidence in newspapers.

      In an Essential Media poll from last December, only 46 per cent trusted news and opinion in newspapers.

      His concerns were reinforced by community forums held by the council in four states. Members of the public consistently raised four issues: the blurring of the line between fact and opinion; misleading and sensationalist headlines; unjustified breaches of personal privacy; and increasingly vitriolic online commentary.

      Let’s clear these up. particularly the blurring (removal) of the line between fact and fiction. Do this until the next election and then let’s have an election based on facts, not opinion and bias.

    • Kipling says:

      10:35am | 26/02/12

      That would be up there as one of the great posts, except it leaves one side of politics out entirely and consequently is as humdrum as any other ideological rant….

      A “new election” won’t give any power or even a perception of power to anyone above the level of ignoramus…. Ongoing political educaiton MIGHT get somewhere but probably not in any short term. The next election, whether “NOW” or at the appropriately appointed time will merely possibly change a few faces in media headlines shots - what sort of power is that for the people exactly?

    • Karin says:

      11:47am | 26/02/12

      “Australian voters would have been properly informed as to the truth about our poltiicians and political parties, and made an educated vote.

      Ah bless.

      Educated voters?

      Surely an oxymoron as far as Australians are concerned.
      It used to amuse me no end watching Americans at election time but alas Aussie are fast catching up as far as dumbing-down is concerned.

      The info is out there why blame the journos if you’re too stupid to look for it.

    • Mayday says:

      06:36am | 26/02/12

      “Caucus failed to realise the extent to which voters would regard their conduct as an act of gross impertinence,” absolutely spot on.  Amateurs.

      Then this “out of respect for a clubby and highly questionable journalistic convention.”
      Or out of an innate need to show their political heart on their sleeve? 
      Professional ethics seem to be missing in action but then the same can be said for the dysfunctional Labor Party.

      Oakeshott should be run out of town once this is all settled, both he and Windsor treat the voters with disdain, another reason an election should be called rather than a new “leader.” 

      Seems we’ve have been fed a crock of s..t?  Yes the mug voter lead by mug pollies and reinforced by mug journalists, can’t wait for this sorry mess to find its natural conclusion.

    • Bertrand says:

      06:42am | 26/02/12

      Thank you Penbo.

      Another well-written article that cuts through the crap on a number of issues, particulary with regards to why the public is pissed off with Labor (the ‘you elect an MP not the PM argument completely ignores the conventions of our electoral system, which has been pitched to us as presidential in nature for a long time), why the independents have been abusing the balance of power, and why the media is at least partly to blame for the whole mess we are in now.

      The only place where I will disagree is your claim about the carbon tax pledge being the biggest about-face by the government in the aftermath of the election.

      While it certainly hangs in the minds of the voters as the biggest ‘lie’, the simple fact is it was little more than a policy shift from a straight ETS to an ETS with a fixed-price (tax) start period. Certainly, this broke the ‘no carbon tax’ promise, but was not a complete turnaround. It was always known that Gillard was going to price carbon, and any examination of media records before the election can see any number of pundits arguing why this was a good or a bad thing. 

      Things like the removal of the private health insurance rebate from high income households were far more a direct about-face, as this wasn’t simply a policy shift made in order to achieve a pre-existing policy, but a complete turn around, and one that did little more than lift Labor’s credentials as a party that enjoys the odd bit of class warfare.

    • Stephen says:

      10:50am | 26/02/12

      Julia : “There will be no carbon tax under the government I lead.”

      A fixed carbon price more than double the price of carbon in Europe, Effectively she has done way worst than a normal market driven carbon tax.  She has installed a massive money collection system based on $23 a carbon ton where Europe is $10 a carbon ton. 

      “policy shift from a straight ETS to an ETS with a fixed-price (tax) start period”  Yeah they wanted to tax the crap out of us with a carbon tax and oh yeah they DID so your argument makes no sense at all.

      The fact Australians would vote for a leader of a party controlled by faceless men pulling the strings and not realize the leader makes zero difference its the party policies that ruin the country.  If its Rudd or Julia they would of both done the deal with the greens for the carbon tax and every other new tax they pulled in since they were in power.  Vote for a party NOT for the party leader you like best.

      When the cost of everything starts going up and up you’ll wish you did.  Our local university will have to pay $1.2 million in carbon taxes.  Just one of our local surf clubs will have to pay $65,000 a year in carbon taxes.  This is ontop of their power prices going up and gas going up.  Welcome to Europe the land of the stupid tax for the stupid people who voted for the party who betrayed them.  yet are considering voting for them again because they changed the front man.

    • Coop says:

      11:27am | 26/02/12

      Whilst we elect a party, the party itself keeps changing. They change their minds but they also make dramatic shifts in their form and makeup.
      If Rudd gets up again there will be a shuffling of bums on seats and a change in the overall party vision and focus which in effect is a different party than was originally voted for. If Gillard stays there’s also some bloodletting likely.
      Forget real Ju Ju, fake Ju Ju or the old / new Kev. Or which of these two lies most.
      We now have to contemplate the new / fake / old / real Labor with the added complications of minority government. It’s just not worth it nationally as unpredictability of the party vision and behaviour increases risk right across a number of arenas.

    • AdamC says:

      12:24pm | 26/02/12

      Bertrand that argument was made in retrospect. Prior to the 2010 election, there was no suggestion that Gillard would introduce any emissions mechanism. Indeed, she clearly had no intention to do so until she decided, for whatever reason, that it was politically expedient to do so. In that judgement, as in so many others, she was wrong.

    • Shane From Melbourne says:

      04:08pm | 26/02/12

      @Stephen- Please learn the difference between a carbon tax and an Emissions Trading Scheme. Ignorance is a bad thing.

    • year of the dragon says:

      07:37pm | 26/02/12

      Shane From Melbourne says: 05:08pm | 26/02/12

      “@Stephen- Please learn the difference between a carbon tax and an Emissions Trading Scheme. Ignorance is a bad thing.”

      So is relying on sneaky semantics to dishonestly con an electorate.

      Gillard and Swan very deliberately allowed the electorate to think that they would not be putting a price on carbon dioxide.

      Their semantics is the equivalent of a kid urnestly telling their parents that they’ll behave and muttering “not” under their breath.

      By persisting with these greasy semantics all they will achieve is to further discredit themselves.

    • Shane From Melbourne says:

      10:06pm | 26/02/12

      @year of the dragon- ditto for you what I said to Stephen…...To be honest I would rather Australia was getting a carbon tax instead of an ETS. An ETS is easier to rort than a straight carbon tax and most of the carbon credits will be purchased outside Australia which is not a good thing.

    • year of the dragon says:

      11:07am | 27/02/12

      Shane From Melbourne says: 11:06pm | 26/02/12

      “@year of the dragon- ditto for you what I said to Stephen”

      Oh I understand the difference Shane.

      Gillard very clearly lead the electorate to believe that a government led by her would not be putting a price on carbon.

      Had she changed her mind and taken it to an election, I would have no issue.

      However, she didn’t take it to an election and has conned millions of voters.

    • Kipling says:

      06:45am | 26/02/12

      Boring….

      That is the excuse for the systematic dumbing down of the populace is it?

      Mostly good points raised here, however, he key one that you omitted (deliberately one must ask?) is the harh reality that, given all your well observed points, how is it that the broader Australian public don’t actually understand in any significant depth their own political system of Government?

      Education would be one area, of course many will jump in boots and all here crying “left wing conspiracy”, but this lack of political education has served both sides exceedingly well. It still might not be too late for future generations to get a clue, of course, we need to start the actual process of reclaiming our democratic rights by a) learning our full responsibility (which is a tad more than turning up once every few years to mark some boxes on paper), b) understanding more fully what reasonable expectations we might be able to have of our political system (no more surprises when leadership changs) c) being aware of the genuine flaws in the system and the options to either address or minimise the impact of said flaws.

      That is a good starting point possibly. Of course politicians would then need to be a lot more honest and genuinely accountable then. None would be able to play this stupid game of “loyalty” over substance anymore.

      The media would also then have to be a whole lot more transparent and dilligent in its professionalism, regardless of the possble “boredom” this might create. For make no mistake, the media has been complicit in this sysemic abuse and dumbing down of the voting public by fuelling the misleading ideas (as you have continued to do Penbo) that drive public opinion.

      In short, the entire Rudd, Gillard and Abbott mix, despite media popularity, ar pretty irrelevant in the big picture. Of course, the big picture is becoming much murkier and difficult to discern due to the smoke and mirrors utilised in falsley making our political system about personalities.

      Of course, as was pointed out indirectly in the article. The BULLSHIT about personalities is at least entertaining and this sells the very ineptly and misleadingly titled “news” papers…. Rather than the BORING realities…

    • Kat says:

      05:00pm | 26/02/12

      You have captured the true elephant in the room: Australia’s political literacy is appalling, and no one speaks of the short sell that we do to ourselves and future generations, as a consequence.

      With most people’s understanding of our system at “superficial” at best; elections although conducted freely and properly, do not deliver “democracy” because the best minds and ideas do not get patronage to fight in them.  Instead we get back room trading of pre selection promises, based on lobbying and affiliation ( on each side of politics).

      Can you imagine my “dismay” when Peter Garrett declares that a shift to Rudd equals his self removal from the cabinet.

      Hey caucus! take the long view, this can only be a good thing!

      Peter, get a hold of yourself, you got a portfolio that you were the most knowledgable in, and you still got demoted! Your sacrifice is noted with a smile, as your merit never justified your seat at the table.

      Rudd’s popularist tactics although misguided re the caucus vote, may actually mobilise the next generations to be more politically active than ever before, but to reject the two party system ( and by that I do not mean endorsing the Greens as an alternative). If this is so, then the country will owe him a great debt, not for his time as PM, but for his patience to stay in the game to mobilise the revolution politics requires.

      The positive out of the spectacle over the days gone is: that it may just be the dawn of a new political force in Australia. We can hope that it is a movement which ensures equity and sense are the founding principles on which the party is built ( not patronage to unions or business). Such a party based at the centre, will have a wide ranging constituency who are currently dissatisfied with both the left and the right we are offered today.

      It will be, as it is in nature; that the from the ashes of the fire, the rebirth occurs and we can all see that the Labor house is blazing out of control, and no extinguishers can be found.

    • antman says:

      03:26am | 27/02/12

      And how about journos begin asking the questions that actually matter; pick apart policies, slogans and misinformation and don’t accept the drivel that is offered in response as adequate. If a politician won’t answer the question posed to them, then do not interview them again until they agree to answer the questions put to them. If enough journos did this, the pollies would have no choice but to start answering questions if they want to get any media coverage.

    • Little Joe says:

      06:54am | 26/02/12

      Wow David!!! Isn’t this what the opposition has been saying about the ALP for the past four years. A shambolic government party that is led by an unelected body of people.

      And I have been ruthless in my attitude about Windsor and Oakeshot, while showing great respect for Wilkie and Katter. The later have backbone and courage, while Windsor and Oakeshot turned against the people who elected them.

      Anyway .... the more the ALP, a party who said that they were ready to govern (HA,HA,HA!!!), stays is government the more I believe that the media backed Rudd over Howard in 2007. Not because of ethics, morality or better government, but simply because they would have stuff up, after stuff up, after stuff up that simply didn’t occur in the Howard Government. It was boring.

      Now journalists have plenty to write about, sell lots of newspapers and fill TV/Radio time. With this comes more and more revenue for the media. Desperately needed revenue that has propped up this ailing industry.

    • NESLIHAN KUROSAWA says:

      06:54am | 26/02/12

      Hi David,

      Life as we know it in Australian Politics, has certainly been an emotional roller coaster ride for some politicians and the Australian Public, to say the least. Exciting, very different, unpredictable and a certain kind of adrenalin rush for some dedicated or not so dedicated Labor or Liberal voters. 

      But boring? Most definitely not so, in reality I can say that with all honesty most Australians could be losing sleep over this Leadership battle within the Labor Party.  It is sounding as well as becoming more and more like a soap opera on daytime TV.  We could actually call it, “days & very long sleepless nights of our very own Australian Lives”.

      I personally think “was all this drama necessary” and “what was the point of the exercise of having our first female Prime Minister anyway”?  It did make headlines around the world in a very positive way, not too long ago.  Right now it is just getting ridiculous and out of hand by the minute, most unfortunately. 

      Yes, I totally agree with you when you say the whole thing has been a bit monotonous and depressing to deal with it, day in & day out. Even when we actually try to see the funny side of things.

      How much more can the Labor Party Voters really take?  It is certainly one drama after another and there seems to be no end insight.  It is making headlines once again around the world.  But this time around, is it really anything to be proud of or be embarrassed about?

      I also wanted say that the united front has been totally lacking within the Labor Party & the Australian Federal Government.  It is only providing more ammunition to the opposition, whether they like or not!

      Once again, it would be a nice change to make headlines for any other reason.  Rather than all the power struggle,conflicts of interest, personality clashes and actually forgetting what happens to be in the best interest of the Australian Public.  Kind regards to your editors.

    • dnastrand says:

      06:57am | 26/02/12

      This is themost succinct,understandable commentary on the current political landscape that I have read so far. Good job.

    • Jane says:

      08:24am | 26/02/12

      It is very good and should be appreciated by both sides of the fence.

    • Freeman says:

      03:15pm | 26/02/12

      Agreed, excellent analysis.

      Sadly, even handed commentary is usually not recognised as such and is often decried from both sides as biased.

    • fox says:

      06:59am | 26/02/12

      Journo: Prime Minister, do you drive a white car?
      Ju-Liar: well cars come in a variety of colours and I just happen to drive one of those colours
      Journo: But do you drive a white car?
      Ju-Liar: As I said, car manufactures in this country, and around the world, produce cars in all sorts of colours and people can choose what colour car to buy.
      Journo: So what color car do you drive?
      Ju-Liar: I’ve answered your question.
      Journo: NO, you haven’t. I’m asking if it’s true that you drive a white car.
      Ju-Liar: I’ve already answered your question several times.
      Journo: With respect, you haven’t answered my question, which is do you drive a white car?
      Ju-Liar: I’ve given you the answer I’m going to give. Next question please.

    • Fox-Idiot says:

      11:00am | 26/02/12

      was this supposed to be funny?
      why did you waste your time proving you live in the shallow end?

    • Tracker says:

      12:22pm | 26/02/12

      I am stealing this and posting it on my FB page grin

    • TimB says:

      02:05pm | 26/02/12

      I thought it was pretty funny given Gillard’s horrible interview the other week.

      ...That;s not you is it Julia?

    • VVS says:

      02:54pm | 26/02/12

      It is pretty funny…

    • LJ Dots says:

      03:28pm | 26/02/12

      @Fox-Idiot, you are right of course. fox is trying to claim credit for some ridiculous parody that was on some recent TV show.

      It certainly was not funny then and it remains unfunny now.

    • Rhonda says:

      06:32pm | 26/02/12

      Excellent, she uses the same answer all the time.

    • Don C says:

      07:09am | 26/02/12

      You’ve not added to my boredom.

      You’ve added to my despair at the amount of dis-information bandied about by those whose job is to do better.

      The voters chose to elect an evenly balanced House of Reps. We have a stable and effective minority government,  by the system and conventions that make our democracy work.

      One Party, one Leader, was able to form a stable working arrangement with the minors and independents.

      It would work the exact same way for a Liberal minority.

      It would have done in 2010 had that Party and its Leader been good enough.  You wouldn’t be trying to snidely tear down the role of the Independents then.

      We have a working democracy, strong enough and practical enough to work even under pressure and despite a blizzard of misinformation and misunderstanding. 

      The system works. There is no point in bitching about it.

    • TimB says:

      08:21am | 26/02/12

      “It would work the exact same way for a Liberal minority.”

      Nope. With Croock, Katter, Oakeshott & Windsor onside, the Libs wouldn’t have had to deal with Wilkie or Bandt.

      The majority of the problems encountered with this current government would simply not have occurred.

      “The system works. “

      If you can’t see a flaw in a system where the majority of MP’s are held to ransom by the views of a few crossbenchers, you have serious issues.

    • BMer says:

      08:51am | 26/02/12

      A stable and effective minority government! You should pull your head out of your arse sometimes and look what a disfunctional rabble we have as a government at the moment. What does the C stand for, Don? Crap?

    • Joan says:

      10:38am | 26/02/12

      Minority governments is a government by the minorties the way Gillard has played the game. We have minorities pulling Gillard strings - so now we have worlds highest $23 Carbon tax forced on the majority who don’t want it,  already killing jobs before it starts, border security now run by the boat smugglers business needs,,  and Australia freedom of press previously ranked at 18 now ranked at 30.  Labor rabble is not the government Australia wants or needs and you can thank Julia Gillard, Swan, Roxon. Burke, Crean, Oakeshott, Windsor for making Australian government the laughing stock of world politics. When the lunatics in charge say they are the best, the rabble as this mob has presented themselves then you know all is not well. that. Australians have got a raw deal and I will keep on bitching.

    • Carol says:

      11:36am | 26/02/12

      Joan,

      Just how wrong can you be? “Not the government wants” we elected this government.
      “Carbon Tax forced on the majority who don’t want it”, just how do you know that?  I’d suggest most of us don’t fully understand it. As to the proposed tax “killing jobs” some evidence please.

      As to you keeping “on bitching”, please do, some of us find it funny.

    • Denny Crane says:

      11:50am | 26/02/12

      In most minority governments the independents remain just that. In any other country in the world, the independents would have crossed the floor because of the incompetence and dishonesty of this government. But not Windsor and Oakshott. Windsor is so filled with hate and the need for revenge that he does not care what happens to the nation. As long as he gets to have his revenge, he will continue to support this rabble.
      As for Oakshott, my god what a fool.I read this morning that if Rudd wins he will call malcolm Turnbull to see if he can get a majority on the floor.  It is doubtful that the parliment has seen a greater idiot. He will become unemployed and is unemployable. No employer in their right mind would have such a fool in their company.

      That is ignoring the small fact that neither Windsor nor Oakshott are representing their electorate the way they wish to be represented. Yeah, the system works.

    • AdamC says:

      12:27pm | 26/02/12

      Don C, you are making purely dogmatic arguments here. Just because you assert something doesn’t make it true.

    • Hear me out ...... says:

      03:10pm | 26/02/12

      For the first time I heard Tony Windsor claim he offered both JG and TA another election before the deals came into affect to form government.  Why didn’t any one know this?

    • Don C says:

      03:24pm | 26/02/12

      Dogma? Hardly.

      We have a stable working minority government, because our democratic systems, from election through parliament and executive, are all working, with all their careful provisions, checks and balances,

      All working as they are supposed to do, even under pressure.

      Dogma? That’s not dogma. Its the way our system works - for all Parties.

    • jack says:

      05:04pm | 26/02/12

      @Joan

      You can bitch until you’re blue in the face, but please refrain from speaking on my behalf.

    • Denny Crane says:

      05:18pm | 26/02/12

      Hear me out - because its another Windsor lie. he said after he made his decision that he felt Abbott would run back to an election. He gave it as a reason why he backed Gillard.

      It was like his lie about Tony Abbott willing to sell his arse to become PM. made many many months after Windsor said Abbott acted honourably during the negotiations that he was never going to win.

      Then there was the allergation aganst Peter Anderson that he offered him a job to get out of the parliment. It was investigated by police and they found the allergation false.

      For whatever reason Windsor has an unhealthy obbsession with revenge on the Nationals. He puts it before his regard for the country.

      Whatever happens our parliemnt will be a much better place without the likes of Windsor darkening its doorstep.

    • Thomas says:

      07:24am | 26/02/12

      How are the ALP ever going to govern while an insidious lack of trust permeates the caucus and the party as a whole? What are they going to do about younger ( or even senior) members who are becoming disillusioned by the whole sordid affair? And don’t they realise that the Liberals are going to absolutely hammer them on this issue for the next 18 months, or at least until the next election is called?

    • Tim says:

      07:29am | 26/02/12

      Hahahaha,
      Yeah the poor meeedja, you was used.

      Off the record Pembo,
      I think that’s a load of crap.

    • I hate pies says:

      07:39am | 26/02/12

      It’s about time a journalist took some of the blame for the media driven politics we have at the moment.
      How about some journalists start asking the questions that matter. For example, why aren’t journalists asking about the billions and billions of dollars we stand to send overseas under the carbon tax to pay for air, and how we’re not actually cutting emissions, just paying for the “privelage” of burning fossils fuels. And how they expect to fill the jobs gap in the period after we’ve wiped out our traditional industries and before we’ve become a “clean energy” economy? What is the timeframe these people can expect to be out of work for before they get “green” jobs? And how many of these “green” jobs are actually going to be subsidised, effectively creating a pyramid system, Greek style, that erodes economic value?

    • thatmosis says:

      07:42am | 26/02/12

      Of course we have been conned. We were told we had the real Joolia, how many times, Ive forgotten as there were so many, then we have that clown Oakeshott who really thinks people listen to him when in fact they are waiting to chuck him out at the first opportunity.
        We have also been conned as the list of failed and expensive overpriced and overbudget policies grows larger everyday.
        We have also been conned into having a carbon tax that will do nothing except swell Government coffers foisted on us after being told that there would never be this tax by our claytons PM.
        We have also been conned into believing that the ballot on Monday will fix the Labor Leadership problem once and for all when any person who can think for themselves realise that whoever wins, the ballot that is, will be white anted until election day by the loser.
        We have also been conned into believing that this ballot, when over, will allow the Labor party to put their diferences aside and run this country but the amount of vitriol and hatred that this has germinated will take decades to overcome whilst we are left with a disfunctional, backstabbing Government who will be to busy watching thier own backs to competantly run even a two ticket raffle sucessfully.
        Have we been conned, yes sir and in spades.

    • Brian Taylor says:

      07:47am | 26/02/12

      I find myself in the rare position of agreeing with you David.
      Rudd has been running Gillard down, any person, male or female who got stabbed in the back like he did would do the same thing.
      Me being me, I’d front the person face to face but Rudd wants another tilt at being head man so he did it behind her back.
      no surprises there.
      As for Oaksnot, hes a waste of breath, whenever the election is called, already have a goodbye message for that twit.
      But even so, he and the rest of them will ride off into the sunset with a pocketful of taxpayers money and a big grin on their faces, knowing that they’ll never have to find work again as the taxpayers will fund their lavish life.
      what really needs to be done, is pay them all very well BUT no lifetime pensions, NO free perks, PLUS a term limit of 8 years.
      after that, they get off the public tit and go find themselves a real job.
      Oh by the way David, well written keep up the good work

    • Jane says:

      08:46am | 26/02/12

      Usually why security escort a sacked employee off the premises, because some will seek to sabatoge an organisation if given the opportunity, Rudd was given free reign to seek revenge but it is a serious character flaw in a nation’s leader. Imagine taking out revenge against an entire nation for eg.  Not having that level of self conrol could pose a security risk.

    • Tracker says:

      12:33pm | 26/02/12

      @Jane, despite Rudd’s position as a Minister or PM he is still an elected member of Parliament. Julia cannot take that away from him (yet.. I guess her Fabian’s are working on that). Rather difficult for Julia to escort him off the premises when she sacked him from his position as PM. Only the people can do that at election time but Kevin Rudd appeals to the over 50% of brain dead voting public so he will be here as long as the bubblegum is free.

    • Jane says:

      02:32pm | 26/02/12

      Tracker, he could, and should have been expelled from the Labor Party for his destabilising campaign by leaking negative material about the Australian Government to the press over a long period of time.

      What surprises me is that he has any support left within the party at all. I can only conclude they care little how votes are secured, as long as they are secured.

    • Tracker says:

      05:44pm | 26/02/12

      @Jane, Kevin Rudd would have had fun with that one, no proof and people are generally considered innocent until proven otherwise. I am surprised Labor hasn’t said a thing about the WikiLeaks leaks showing Arbib was supplying internal information to the Americans. I suppose it is ok for Arbib to supply confidential information to a foreign Government but it is not ok for Rudd to talk in confidence to some journalists. Journalists don’t tell us everything and if we knew what they knew Gillard and her cronies would not be here and in fact I would be so bold to say some of them would probably be having free breakfast and lodging courtesy of Her Majesty. Off the record, you’ve all been conned says the title of the article.. and we are grin

    • Jane L says:

      07:58am | 26/02/12

      Thank you. Finally a reporter acknowledges what some of us were are so very deeply concerned about.

      We have a PM hopeful who may have put his own interest ahead of the national interest, who has discredited our government for his own gain. Bradley Manning in the US at least thought he had the national interest at heart when leaking “gossip”.  He gets jail, Rudd may get a promotion.

      We end up with this disconnect between what the public image of Julia Gillards performance is, and those who have rated her performance on facts rather than this dubious reporting. However, she has done likewise, by allowing a senior minister to continue to destabalise the government. Such a worrying flaw should disqualify him from office., She has put self interest ahead of the national interest though. He should have been expelled (if true) but that could have triggered an election which would have seen her lose her job, So again self interest steered the decision making process.

      Then we have Abbott. It would not matter if the best policy ever written was tabled before parliament he would slam it. Incite fear about it.  He is in permanent election mode, working always for the polls and never in the national interest. Never.

      We have 3 opposition leaders in this country. All working against us, none working for us. We deserve this issue be rectified urgently instead we have Rudd’s Media Circus complete with dancing girls and rent a crowd.

      Or is it all the media’s fault?

      This matter should not be allowed to go away ......once again thank you for saying it how it is.

    • Mattb says:

      12:35pm | 26/02/12

      Jane L
      Well said.

    • Janes right says:

      02:46pm | 26/02/12

      Jane - thank you for saying it how it is. I think most of the public feel like we have three people fighting over ‘victory’ - none of them care about this country or what the people want, and each of them just wants to win power. Its a sad and somewhat scary situation for this nation to be in.

    • sandra says:

      03:08pm | 26/02/12

      yes I figured it was all Abbotts fault!!!!!  You have no idea what a true Australian Abbott really is—all the work he does in his own time for charity, the deceny with which he has ran and continues to run his life!! It beggars belief that the 30% still voting for Gillard prefer a constant controlling manipulative lier, over him. he is a decent intelligent man—too bad that no longer has currency in your world!!!

    • Freeman says:

      04:25pm | 26/02/12

      Jane L,

      The branding of Abbott as “Dr no” is cheap politics and easily disproven. if you buy it you are a fool. The ALP honestly have nothing on Abbott so they try to label him a wrecker. He is no more obstructive in opposition than Rudd or Beazley were.

      some points must be made;
      * Abbott, and the opposition, vote through something like 80% of ALP legislation unopposed.

      * the legislation Abbott does oppose is always high profile legislation were there is also much public opposition. See the Carbon tax, Mining tax, NBN, malasian solution ect. He would not be doing his job if he let these train wreck bills pass without being challenged.

      * The ALP could get legislation through without LNP support if the Greens, who actually help form government, would give theirs. But you and others covieniently ignore this and scream Abbott down.

    • TimB says:

      08:23am | 26/02/12

      Hmm. The facts about off the record conversations and annonymous sources.

      Badger must be having a stroke right about now.

      Vindication is always fun.

    • Simba says:

      03:23pm | 26/02/12

      Do Tell us when you feel vindicated TimB and exactly what it is that you feel vindicated about.
      This should be entertaining.

    • marley says:

      08:38am | 26/02/12

      Penbo refers to journalistic ethics preventing journalists from revealing what they’ve been told by Rudd and his backers over the last year or so.  I just hope a few journalists decide that their ethics require them to speak truth to authority, and that the authority in this case is the public. Rudd is a candidate for leadership of the ALP, and for the Prime Ministership:  it seems to me we have a right to know whether he has been undermining the government of which he’s been a part, and the extent to which he’s been doing it.

    • Arcadian Sunrise says:

      11:36am | 26/02/12

      Ethics? Jounralists?
      marley, you probably haven’t been in Australia long, but journalism left the country a long time ago.
      All we have now is bias and opinion masquerading as facts. A media that seeks to create the news, not report it.
      A media that panders to the advertisers and interests that continue to prop up their failing empires.

    • Karin says:

      11:52am | 26/02/12

      “I just hope a few journalists decide that their ethics require them to speak truth to authority,”

      I laughed so hard at this I spilled my cuppa.

      Journos have NO ethics.They have editors/owners who tell them which line to take.

      Fairies at the bottom of your garden doing well?

    • marley says:

      02:18pm | 26/02/12

      @Arcadian Sunrise and Karin:  umm, that was kind of my point.

    • gobsmack says:

      08:47am | 26/02/12

      “But there is a widely-held and completely understandable public view that when that leader goes to the polls, and receives a popular mandate, their continuing employment will be decided by a general election, rather than covert conversations by king-makers and trouble-makers.”
      Maybe, but shortly after Rudd was de-throned a general election was held, in part so that Gillard could claim her own mandate to govern.  This went against the view that her political fortunes would have been better served by waiting until after the NSW election.
      If the majority of people were of a mind to punish Gillard, they were unwilling to do so because the Liberals put up the unacceptable Abbott as the alternative.

    • Don C says:

      09:15am | 26/02/12

      There’s just one piece missing from the puzzle.

      The supposed “faceless men”.

      There is only one “faceless man” in this awful saga.

      That is Bruce Hawker, the unelected “adviser” now out in the sunlight as Rudd’s chief runner.

      Hawker was involved behind the scenes in the 2010 post-election negotiations which saw the minors and independents give support to a stable Gillard-led minority Government.

      It is possible that Hawker has been busily stitching up a deal with the independents that has not been announced.

      That might well account for the puzzling timing of Rudd’s resignation, a most discreditable act while on duty overseas, and made in the dead of night .

      There may well be a connection with Hawker and any backroom machinations, that neither he nor Rudd dare or deign to tell us.

      So it’s entirely possible that Gillard has in fact been ambushed in the most underhanded way,  by the one true faceless man in this whole affair, and that a deal has already been stitched up to give Rudd minority support in the House.

      People Power? Sick joke, Rudd.

      I hope Gillard is resoundingly returned as PM on Monday.

      If I’m wrong, I’m wrong. After all, what would I know. I’m not in the Labor Party. I’ve never ever worked for them.

      I’ve just done my best, all my adult life,  to support Labor as what I see as the best chance for fair good government of my country, for everyone no matter how they vote.

      Still, we’ll see what happens in the Party Room on Mon am and then on the floor of the House of Reps on Monday arvo.

    • Mack says:

      12:28pm | 26/02/12

      Ha ha. Even the people who are ‘strongly behind’ Julia are starting to wobble!

    • Tracker says:

      02:22pm | 26/02/12

      Nothing will happen on Monday. Julia will get the majority vote, Kevin will get maybe 35 votes and the Government will go back to being useless as always because all they care about is that term to term appointment to qualify for max benefits when they get that golden handshake in the form of a parliamentary pension. That’s why Julia is getting the votes, not because they feel she can lead them to a victory in 2013. It is all about staying in as long as possible to max their benefits (at our expense). Labor and the Independents know they are dead ducks come next election.

    • Don C says:

      03:18pm | 26/02/12

      That isn’t what I’ve said at all.

      How anyone could read that into anything that I’ve said is totally beyond me.

      The fact is that Rudd actually does have a “faceless man” - his unelected minder, Bruce Hawker.

      Hawker saw fit to lecture Australians about what the PM should do on Monday.  Contemptible hypocrisy, but at least he’s stepped out into the daylight.

      As I’ve said again and again, I’m looking forward to Julia Gillard being returned as PM with a resounding win in the Party Room on Monday. 

      I’ve no say in what happens there. I’m just an ordinary Australian who sees Labor as the best Party for good government for all Australians, now matter how they vote.

      I want Julia Gillard to lead Labor as Australia’s PM to the 2013 election and beyond.

      In short, I hope she and the Caucus give Rudd the hiding of his life.

    • LJ Dots says:

      03:38pm | 26/02/12

      @Mack, it’s not called wobbling anymore, the correct term is ‘adjusting to the new paradigm’.

    • wearestardust says:

      09:34am | 26/02/12

      I am reminded by the current situation of the suggestion that for the voter politics is often like being lost at sea with the choice of drinking seawater or one’s own urine.

      I’m interested, though, in some of the present discussion’s editing out of the fact that there was an election since the night of the long caucus ballot.  If the suggestion is that a governing party ought stick with the leader it went to the last election, then swapping Gillard for Rudd would be just trying to make a right out of two wrongs?

    • kc says:

      09:35am | 26/02/12

      Finally. I love this article. Who wants to work with me to find a way to change our political system such that these farcical situations can never occur again. Change of PM should equal automatic election

    • Jane says:

      12:23pm | 26/02/12

      KC,. Prior to an election I think we should have a mandatory leadership ballot for each major party. Then the party can be represented the way they wish to be without fear of voter backlash.. Mid term polling blackout so we do not have this reality TV situation where we vote one off the island on a weekly basis.


      Change of leadership must be for a very good reason mid term, crime and misconduct primarily.
      The press though ? Even this article when duplicated in the mainstream press has been heavily edited with a brand new headline. Great work yet still chopped to bits for public consumption. We need someone working for the national interest.

      Journalists in Canbeer do apepar to heva eben Rudd’s PR compnay and all along we thought he press was biaed in favour of Abbott, it was just being anti Julia.

    • GB says:

      09:53am | 26/02/12

      Best article you’ve written here Penbo. 100% in agreement and it’s very rare I can say that. Doesn’t matter who they install, the public, other than the rusted on’s won’t forget this shameful episode. At least everybody has got to see what usually goes on in-house with the ALP, out in the public domain.

    • Chris says:

      09:58am | 26/02/12

      Yes, the government remains in power because a tiny minority of elected members chose to support a larger minority in contravention of the wishes of their electorates. That is not democracy.
      At the next election these people will lose their employment. Naturally they wish to get a pay packet for as long as possible.  If they did the honourable and decent thing they would withdraw their support and allow an election. Perhaps someone else could offer them employment elsewhere now so they can no longer use the “I need my pay for the next 18 months” as an excuse - or is it possible that nobody will be prepared to employ people who betray their electorate -and their country?
      To think we might be paying these people unemployment benefits!

    • Malcolm says:

      05:21pm | 26/02/12

      @Chris.

      Incorrect. Google “Westminster system of Government in Australia”.

    • marley says:

      08:15am | 27/02/12

      @malcolm - why is it incorrect?  If a half dozen MPs did as Chris suggests, the Westminister system decrees that the government will fall the first time there’s a confidence of supply vote, and an election will be called.

    • Gerard says:

      10:06am | 26/02/12

      The biggest problem with Australia’s political system is people trying to make it something it’s not. The idea that a prime minister has a popular mandate is not “completely understandable”. It is pure fantasy. The public elects the Parliament; the Parliament nominates the executive. Maybe this arrangement isn’t ideal; if not, then put forward a case for changing the constitution. But insisting that the prime ministership is, or should be, decided by the public under the present system is not only wrong, it’s unworkable, unenforcable and, most importantly, unconstructive.

      Also incorrect is the assertion that Rob Oakeshott is abusing his position by saying he would support Turnbull but not Abbott as PM. He is completely within his rights to reject Abbott if he does not believe he has the temperament to be prime minister. Every member of the Labor Party has done the same. Unlike the Labor Party however, Oakeshott has offered a second proposal which he believes might be acceptable to both himself and the coalition. Again, he is completely within his rights to do so, and in fact is applying the Parliamentary system as it was supposed to be applied- negotiation between the people’s chosen representatives for a mutually acceptable outcome.

    • Mayday says:

      11:09am | 26/02/12

      Oakshott abused his position when he went against the majority of his electorate and sold himself to the ALP.
      Malcolm Turnbull is not PM potential yet and the Left need a new poster boy.

    • Docrob says:

      01:31pm | 26/02/12

      I guess we will see whether the electorate think it is pure fantasy when we see a repeat of the electoral landslide which occurred in 2010 after the leader to whom they gave a mandate in 2007 was unceremoniously dumped.
      The people do vote for the leader for a simple reason, hardline party politics, when you are in a situation where dissent means ejection from the party the local members identity ceases to matter because they are beholden to the party and the leader as the figurehead of the parliamentary party. Given the local members lose almost all relevence the electorate looks much more to the party as a whole and the leader of it when deciding on their vote. This may not fit in with the theory people learnt in politics 101 but it is the reality of how people vote.

    • Swinging Voter says:

      02:19pm | 26/02/12

      @ Mayday - Oakeshott was elected as an independent, if the people in his electorate had wanted a conservative they would have voted for a Liberal or National representative, and if there were no LNP candidates in Oakeshott’s electorate, then whose fault is that?...it’s certainly not Oakeshott’s responsibility.

      You vote for an independent purely for that reason…they’re independent, they’re not tied to party ideology, they don’t have to tow the party line, can you or others comprehend that?

      I’m amazed at the ignorance shown here and elsewhere in relation to how Australian politics (or politics in general) operate, for too long the major parties have kept politics out of the education curriculum, well the time has come for it to be taught at all schools, starting at the primary level.

      The dumbing down of the Australian population is staggering, I realise that apathy plays a major role but it is becoming increasingly embarrassing.

    • Gerard says:

      02:42pm | 26/02/12

      @Mayday

      Maybe he did, but that’s not what the article is claiming. The article states that Oakeshott’s preference for Turnbull is “a genuine affront to democracy”. No mention was made of the electorate’s opinion of his position. It was the (legitimate) position taken by Oakeshott that the author was objecting to, not the lack of public support for that position.

    • Mayday says:

      04:06pm | 26/02/12

      Swinging Voter, the only apathy is that of Oakeshott towards his constituents. 

      He should be in the ALP, his ego and attitude are so very similar to his masters from the Left i.e. “I want my own way, stuff the country.”
       
      Perhaps you think “the dumbing down of the Australian population” is because they don’t have opinions like yours?

      You, SV are either being ignorant or disingenuous if you ignore the man’s background in politics both State and Federal. 

      He ran as a conservative based independent, won and changed to the other side.

      The people of Lyne are not happy, they will embarrass Oakeshott come the next election and your ignorance will be there for all to see.

    • TimB says:

      04:56pm | 26/02/12

      1.  Anyone who defends Oakeshott’s behaviour is NOT likely to be a swinging voter. Don’t pull that crap here.

      2. As an Independent Oakeshott was elected to represent the views of his electorate woithout being beholden to a party position. Not to do whatever the hell he feels like. They wanted him to support the LNP to form government and not Gillard. He didn’t, therefore he has betrayed his electorate. It’s that simple.

      3. To turn this constantly trotted out piece of idiotic logic around. if the people of Lyne had wanted an Labor representative, they would have voted for an ALP member. So why is it that the people of Lyne have to vote LNP to get an LNP syupporting candidate, but they don’t have to vote ALP to get an ALP supporting candidate?

    • RG says:

      05:32pm | 26/02/12

      @Tim Oakeshott was elected as an Independent.

    • Swinging Voter says:

      06:10pm | 26/02/12

      @ TimB - “As an Independent Oakeshott was elected to represent the views of his electorate woithout being beholden to a party position”

      What the heck are you on about? Isn’t that what I said?

      “They wanted him to support the LNP” - So now TimB is a mind reader as well as a know-it-all.

      I will spell it just for you TimB…Oakeshott is an I N D E P E N D E N T.

      Do you understand?

    • TimB says:

      07:30pm | 26/02/12

      I understand. Do you?

      As an independent who is theoretically *not beholden to a party* (as you claim you already know), he’s backed Labor’s agenda instead of representing the wishes of his electorate.

      Party agenda>constituents. That’s the behaviour you expect from an ALP member. Not a true independent.

      ““They wanted him to support the LNP” - So now TimB is a mind reader as well as a know-it-all.”

      Are you really stupid enough to try and argue that the people of Lyne wanted Oakeshott to support the ALP’s agenda over the LNP’s?

      Check the 2nd preference results. Check the sheer amount of anti-Oakeshott vitriol coming from Lyne residents since the election. Pay close attention when Oakeshott is comprehensively thrown from office at the next election for his betrayal.

      Bottom line- Anyone who tries to claim that Oakeshott is somesort of morally upstanding independent who is adequately representing his electorate according to said electorates wishes is either a fool, or a pathetic Labor rusty. Or both.

    • year of the dragon says:

      07:54pm | 26/02/12

      Swinging Voter says: 03:19pm | 26/02/12

      “if the people in his electorate had wanted a conservative they would have voted for a Liberal or National representative”

      You don’t have to be a member of the Liberal or National party to be a conservative.

      Oakeshott is a former member of the National Party and campaigned as a conservative (albeit independent) candidate.

      Lyne is a conservative electorate, they wanted a conservative candidate and that is that.

      “You vote for an independent purely for that reason…they’re independent, they’re not tied to party ideology”

      Just because they don’t belong to a party doesn’t mean that they don’t adhere to a certain ideology.

    • Against the Man says:

      10:35am | 26/02/12

      Well this is pretty cool. I haven’t had to post anything in 2 days because ALL of Australia have been saying what I want to say. Great being part of that massive majority that believes the ALP to be shit. Even acotrel and TChong have curbed their own enthusiastic support hahahaha.

      Gillard has screwed Australia big time and Monday should see the end of the ALP as we know it. That is why Albanese was crying.

      And if it wasn’t official before it is now. Oakeshott is a tool.

    • Little Joe says:

      12:14pm | 26/02/12

      Oakeshot and Windsor are officially labeled as ignorant tools

    • cheap white trash says:

      12:56pm | 26/02/12

      And dont forget Winbag Windsor and Wilkie,and we might as well throw in Slippery Pete,and why not Bobby Brown,all fit into the TOOL dept.

    • Frank says:

      05:43pm | 26/02/12

      With all the compliments lavished on the Independents from the Noalition and their loser supporters, it’s really hard to understand why they haven’t felt inclined to form Government with them.

    • Against the Man says:

      07:28pm | 26/02/12

      @ Frank

      Step one: put down the glass of vino

      Step two: Listen to Australia

      Step three: Realise the ALP are bad for Australia in every way!

    • Vince says:

      11:13am | 26/02/12

      Get your priorities right,Lara Bingle has a new show coming out

    • Ian says:

      11:19am | 26/02/12

      I’m of the age when I can remember Australia was a bgreat polace to live in !!

      Now in a few years Labor Government has stuffed the entire place to the stage where (Google) Australia is now amongst the top six most EXPENSIVE countries to live, particularly for day to day costs e.g. shopping, utilities, transports etc.

      The fact that Labor is being thrown out of almost every State in Oz is proof of this statement.

      Sad news is that you can’t unscaemble an egg and no matter who gets in, odds are we will not see any improvement in the havoc Gillard and Crew have cast upon us.

      With Australia having one of the lowest outputs of pollution and the higest (and unproven) carbon tax in the world, we have Labor and the Greens to thank for that!

      Anogther twenty years and I’ll be outa here but than k God I can recall tghe “good old days!”

    • Hugh G Rexshun says:

      02:11pm | 26/02/12

      Well Ian, what’s stopping you leaving now? After all, the higest carbon tax is simply unacceptable to you. And while you’re unscaembling your eggs, just reflect on that bgreat polace Australia was - actually it still is a bgreat polace! I reckon people complaining about how bad things are now, just haven’t got the world experience I have. I’ve lived in over 40 countries and I can say Australia is still the best. Ian, please don’t let the door hit your over-sized arse on the way out through the departure lounge on your way to a better polace

    • PS says:

      03:37pm | 26/02/12

      “With Australia having one of the lowest outputs of pollution”

      Actually, we have the highest outputs of CO2 per capita in the world, but don’t let the facts get in the way of a tanty.

    • Mik says:

      12:05pm | 26/02/12

      And what else is happening in the political arena at the moment?

    • Mad as hell says:

      12:09pm | 26/02/12

      Politics has been reduced to entertainment and attracts the same self promoting people types that want to be TV show contestants but who want less competition.  To believe Abbott, Rudd or Gillard can lead people is the same as believing Tom Cruise can act or Kylie Minogue can sing.  It is all a pretence played out through dutiful and embedded media. The main parties who are now part of the media pack and only act as media representatives for lobby groups, large business, religion and unions.

    • simonfromLakemba says:

      12:11pm | 26/02/12

      “We in the media should reflect on our complicity in this type of journalism. It’s my view that we have not only damaged ourselves, but more gravely we have let down the public by feeding them stories which look thin, tendentious, convey deliberately misleading sentences to blur the origin of the information”

      Why thank you, you have just said I have been saying for the past 2 weeks. I feel vindicated now.

    • Harry says:

      03:29pm | 26/02/12

      Do you feel the same sort of vindication that TimB feels?
      I’m sure he will enlighten us as to his special feeling.

    • Jane L says:

      07:46am | 27/02/12

      The reality is we have a leadership challenge today because of the media, no one else but the media. Julia Gillard…. after how long of relentless headlines?.....  had to put an end to it. She responded to the media by calling a ballot today, not to any “real” leadership challenge. It is entirely possibly the whole sorry sage is a total media invention.

      Or was it Rudd who never had a leadership challenge planned just yet, but used the media to simply set the stage for one by destabalising the government and reducing support to ultimately increase his chance of success.

      Either way the media has not reported in the national interest. The gossip was clearly that, idle gossip,  even us punters picked up they were making things up. Some evidence normally comes into play at some stage.

      So the media have fabricated the news which is serious in itself but has undermined the government of the day whch should have already prompted an inquiry. We may know Rudd is behind it but I am sure he never held a gun to their head.

      If Rudd is behind it, we TRULY cannot have a traitor to his own government and therefore country be PM, so the media has failed comprehensively.

    • razor says:

      12:29pm | 26/02/12

      Come Back Kev will prevail.
      All the whinging, bleating, hysterical, drivel coming from the mouths of the pathetic LNP supporters on
      here is hilarious.

    • splash says:

      02:50pm | 26/02/12

      Razor you fool,
      All the bleating, hysterical and drivel has been coming from backbenchers, ministers, senior ministers and your pm, from Within the labor party, Sunshine.

    • Borneo says:

      12:33pm | 26/02/12

      As editor David Penberthy, in your wisdom, you advocated we vote for these scumbags. Do you not remember?

    • Sarawak says:

      04:02pm | 26/02/12

      Actually Bornie, as I recall, Dave advocated a vote for Labor not Liberal

    • Anjuli says:

      12:56pm | 26/02/12

      We need an election now ,reading comments on sites this is what people are calling for .As governments are suppose to governed for the people by the people why isn’t it so.Australians are so over the way this government have messed us over ,I hope it is a long time before we ever have another amateur lot in again.Then again they will all have their gold card and sail off into the sunset at the tax payers expense,another perk which should be got rid of.

    • jack says:

      05:47pm | 26/02/12

      @Anjuli

      Please refrain from speaking on my behalf.

    • iansand says:

      12:57pm | 26/02/12

      A journalist decrying the pernicious abuse of backgrounders, but without the courage to go against that system.

      What else do you need to know about gutless Australian political reporting?

    • Lobby Grouper says:

      03:28pm | 26/02/12

      political reporting?
      Surely you mean political infotainment.

      PS - you shouldn’t user the term journalist so loosely.
      In Australia these days there is not much difference between a journalist and a lobbyist

    • Mattb says:

      01:01pm | 26/02/12

      So, what do we do then?.

      Call an election right now and give Abbott the reigns?.

      A man who’s levels of satisfaction amongst the voting population are on par with gillard’s.
      A man who’s policies, when properly scrutinized, aren’t only rubbish but aren’t costed. And if any of you conservatives beleive TA’s current policies are good don’t just tell me that’s what you beleive, tell me why.

      I beleive if TA was installed as PM tomorrow that in six months time we’d be in the exact same situation we have now. The man is just as popular as gillard and he’s already destined to fail. The media will make sure of it because it helps it sell it’s form of ‘entertainment’. Just looking at them frothing at the mouth over the last week is all the proof you need.

      It so fantastic that our governments, liberal or labor, will now forever run on media headlines and weekly opinion polls..

    • Jane L says:

      03:08pm | 26/02/12

      Well if we do a U-turn in the race to the bottom we can save the day.

      Would need Abbott, Gillard and Rudd to stand aside tomorrow.  Admit it an error to run the nation by weekly polls. Then a committment to work for the benefit of Australia from major parties and from the press. New leaders, fresh start all feeling very democratic and love for the people oozing everywhere..

      Oh wait I just woke up !!!

      We will probably get next episode reality TV Rudds in Suburbia.

      Episode 1. Rudds Go Shopping at Westfield Mall.
      Episode 2. Rudds Go Praying at Church
      Episode 3. Rudds Go Happy Family At Home in Norman Park
      Epsiode 4. Rudds Go Crying on TV
      Episode 5. Rudds Get Packing - Voted OFF !

      What have we done?

    • Tony says:

      03:34pm | 26/02/12

      Oh the confusion in a Labor voters head….......

      1. Abbott’s satisfaction level is way above Gillard’s despite him being the Opposition leader and despite the mud slinging campaign mounted by Labor over four years. Go on, check why don’t you.

      2. What policies are rubbish? And what policies are not costed? You believe the party that has wasted countless billions and has run up Australia’s worst ever debt when they say ‘there is a $70 billion black hole’? Hell, against a $250 billion debt and growing every day so what?

      3. First policy change - go back to the pacific solution. It worked! Soon as the boats stop the savings start to accumulate. Wow! There’s a solution to any ‘black hole’ Labor want to talk about.

      4. Second policy change - NO Carbon tax. Wow! Suddenly industry is more competetive, jobs losses slow down, company returns up…. Simple really.

      4. Third policy change - just stop the nonsesne perpetrated by Labor. Stability is what people want. Investment ramps up, businesses start emplying, consumer confidence up.


      Gee, there it is in a nutshell. But no, the true Labor believers will rant against Abbott till they die. Happily they won’t be able to fool the country this time round.

    • Suzy says:

      01:15pm | 26/02/12

      David.  I agree.  I have long held the view that the ideal of bringing democracy to countries ruled by dictators and autocrats is folly and the only difference there seems to be these days is that we get to elect our autocrats and despots.

    • Billy Whizz says:

      01:22pm | 26/02/12

      Here in Queensland we are having a state election.  As I am sick of party politics I wanted to vote for a candidate rather than a party.  The only information I could find were a few glib lines on party webstes that would embarrass a miss world pageant contestant. So, I requested from all the candidates, resumes to see their experience what and qualities might be.  It’s been a month and I’m still waiting, even after a follow up.  I mention this as it shows the disconnect that parties have with voters, if the people want Rudd it really is not their concern.

    • Poa says:

      01:37pm | 26/02/12

      good article PENBO.
      we’ve been conned.By the ALP spin machine and the media that works with them.
      interesting that Coalition “off the record"chats of the Costello sort are fair game but Gillard/Rudd chats are sacred.
      So much so that the media was accused of writing hate speeches and inciting regime change for reporting exactly what the ALP MP’s now openly admit.
      Maybe some journo’s are way too close to th subject matter?
      for instance, should journo’s write about Rudd/ Gillard when they live with Gillard MP’s.? surely at some point they must have a conflict of interest?
      Won’t their household income fall if theirartner is sacked?

    • H B Bear says:

      01:55pm | 26/02/12

      You mean conned like… “There will be no Carbon Tax under the government I lead” conned? 

      I think I get it. 

      Election now!

    • F. Cat says:

      05:52pm | 26/02/12

      @hbbear

      All you have to do to have the power to call elections whenever it suits you is win one.

    • onlooker says:

      02:08pm | 26/02/12

      No matter how it goes they have lost voters, trust is important when choosing who is in Government We have all heard how Rudd was psychotic and dysfunctional, so why was he made Foreign Minister? The Foreign Minister job is one great importance to Australia, he represents us all around the world. To my mind it was only negligence on Labors part appointing him or they are lying. Either way it should be investigated.As for the Independents, please if your in their electorate don’t inflict us with them again

    • Farken says:

      02:09pm | 26/02/12

      the political mud slinging by the media is the lowest from of journalism your there to report or put forward your opinion not to show what a limited vocabulary you have by putting the person or government down . so well down in getting the situation you wanted

    • marley says:

      02:49pm | 26/02/12

      Actually, all the political mudslinging is being done by Rudd, Swan, Gillard, Crean, Hawker, etc etc. The journalists are pretty much just reporting what the ALP politicians are saying about one another.  Edifying, isn’t it?

    • Brian says:

      03:21pm | 26/02/12

      Good article Penbo; on both points. The behaviour of this Govt has been atrocious to the way Australians think about politics and politicians. It was once an honourable profession, but now blatant lying and piggery seem to be considered par for the course. It’s time for a political party to have convictions of decency and stick to them. The same could be said about some journalists.

    • Vicki PS says:

      03:55pm | 26/02/12

      Weird, isn’t it?  Both sides go into an election in the expectation that the leader of the winning side will be PM.  But where’s the outrage when the Opposition rolls their leader and votes in a new one, as happens more often than not?

    • marley says:

      05:43pm | 26/02/12

      Umm, well, the Opposition Leader isn’t the PM and isn’t the head of government.  That might be a start.  It’s one thing to change the head of the opposition party mid-term, quite another to change the Prime Minister of the country.

    • RAL says:

      03:58pm | 26/02/12

      The three ‘independent’ stooges have destroyed my and many others, long-held views that Independents was the way to vote as they would represent their electorates rather than the party’s view - these guys only represent themselves. Worse than Greenies!

    • FNQ says:

      05:55pm | 26/02/12

      @RAL

      I don’t think Bob Katter would agree with your comment.

    • Marilyn Shepherd says:

      05:09pm | 26/02/12

      I agree with Farken, the media has been reprehensible.  None have forced Roxon to show evidence of Rudd’s so called bad behaviour but today she now claims she loved his passion for reform.

      The problem is the Sussex Street mob refuse to believe they were wrong and it all flows from there.

      I long for the days when we had real journalists reporting real news instead of endless streams of bloviators.

      Gillard sent Crean out to globally embarrass a foreign minister on government duties in another country, as Frank Brennan points out under the rules that is a sacking offence.

      Conroy has the best job in the country thanks to Kevin Rudd’s vision of an NBN.

      Brendan O’Connor is a prat who rushed through illegal retrospective laws after being caught out locking up innocent children in adult prisons - laws so bad not one law group and most of the judges in the country will not support.  Perhaps many are not aware that giving refugees a ride is not a crime even here.

      And for the $110 million O’Connor wasted there has been 59 convictions, 39 acquittals and 66 cases dropped.

      Not much to show for so much money is it.
      And he is derided by all our courts now.

      Crean is the greatest under achiever this country has ever seen - Doug Cameron, Albo and Mark Bishop are some with decency who have been appalled by the viciious attacks on Rudd that actually amount to nothing much at all.

      The media though are the worst.  If Rudd has been doing as claimed they have all been duplicitous liars.

      And for the record I have spent time with Rudd and Gillard over the years - Rudd was easy to talk to, funny and charming.

      Gillard was cold and ruthless and disinterested in anything resembling human rights and if we don’t respect human rights we might as well all go back into our bubbles.

    • marley says:

      07:25pm | 26/02/12

      @Marilyn - you do understand that, given your record and your well- known attitude, your support for Rudd is not going to work in his favour?

    • Andrew says:

      08:25pm | 26/02/12

      The papers have been prietty much reporting the truth for 18 months but everytime they do someone comes from labor comes out and says they are making it up and calling them the hate media, now that it has been shown to be true I expect the labor members to come out and apologise. The only people lying to the australian people are the labor members trying to cover their arse.

    • Andrew says:

      08:30pm | 26/02/12

      Funny how you support human rights but your happy for the Taliban to stay in power in Afganistan. The same Taliban who give woman no rights and stone and behead innocent people. You say that we have to respect human rights but your happy to back and support governments with appaliing human rights records. But I guess like most hyprocrites you only support and jump up and down about something when you think its happening in your own back yard.

    • Karin says:

      11:26am | 27/02/12

      You’re a one trick pony Marilyn

      .Human Rightsissues are important but not the be-all and end-all.

      Human Rights org. are the worst thing which has happened to Human Rights because most of them are politically tainted.

    • Mark says:

      05:19pm | 26/02/12

      Stop living at the movies, Penbo. This isn’t America, and there’s no excuse for being mistaken about that. We vote for a party. Always have.

      “The conduct of these people has often been a genuine affront to democracy.”

      That’s what people told me the first time I voted Liberal. It couldn’t be further from the truth. That is democracy. Any anyone who tries to condemn someone for exercising their fundamental democratic right needs to think about relocating.

      American might be a good start.

    • Nathan says:

      05:40pm | 26/02/12

      Well said, about time and respect, sir.

    • Malleeringneck says:

      05:58pm | 26/02/12

      It will be quite amazing to see how all the anti-liberal party commentators on this site whine when after the next national election the labor party is decimated and they have no Juliar or Krudd to support, only Tony Abbott to hate.
      I am looking forward to those whinings.

    • Iamme says:

      08:26pm | 26/02/12

      Elections are won by wooing a few middle of the road voters in a few marginal electorates.  Safe seats rarely change hands.  Does anyone really believe that swinging voters will cast in favour of Gillard and Labor at the next election. If they do, “Tell’em they’re dreamin”  The Coalition will undoubtedly be back in power by August 2013 then they can get on with their perennial job of cleaning up the economic mess left by Labor.

    • Sad says:

      11:09pm | 26/02/12

      This is not America. Parties, based on their working understanding, chose leaders and the public chose parties. The people have since elected their right and voted for a minority government end of story. I think the truth is very clear and always has been - a political party would not change leadership of the PM unless their were some pretty solid reasons for doing so. Sadly this is lost on people who it seems would prefer celebrity leadership than someone who has the support of her party, is able to make tough unpopular decisions and get things done. Democracy only works with education (and ethical, robust media coverage). Unfortunately most people do not have the ability to make an accurate and fair assessment of this situation and it’s not through lack of information, rather than lack of analysis. People including the media are to bent on using primary school arguments such as “liar and backstabber and bloodless coup” than talking about the need for Gillard to change short term policy to deal with the new political environment or the need for Gillard to step in and salvage the running of the country by taking over the leadership. People are just stupid and use to much emotion in their thinking - that’s why democracy doesn’t work. People should have to sit a test to demonstarte they understand the issues they are voting on to begin with. By the way, how many ministers who won’t sit under a Rudd government does it take to light a bulb in Mr Rudd’s mind that he is not capable of running a leadership team? Answer: the entire caucus would still not get the point through to Rudd. I feel so sorry for Gillard. People must realise they do not need to like their PM to respect her. One day her government will be looking on favourably as one that managed to make a lot of decisions and achieve some important reforms. I doubt the majority of Australians will understand this though. It’s sad and now we will end up with Tony Abbott running the country. I personally will leave the country if that happens. Perhaps Malcolm Turnball should run for the labour party leadership.

    • Mark says:

      02:08am | 27/02/12

      So Abbott is going to repeal the carbon tax.

      I. Is he going to repeal the tax cuts to the lowest income earners in Australia and if not, how is he going to pay for it?
      2. The liberal party does not have climate change denial as it a policy, as Howard already contemplated a carbon scheme. What is he going to put in place instead? We are all going to have to pay for carbon, no matter who is elected, and the repealing of one scheme and the introduction of another is going to cost jobs in renewable energy and cause massive uncertainty.

      Controlling the Labour party would be like trying to juggle 10 chain-saws and they will probably lose the election. Australias challenges are not politicians, they are massive economic changes across the Western World, aging populations, rising health costs, a decreasing tax base, falling productivity etc

    • Queen B says:

      06:35am | 27/02/12

      A well written article you had me snickering into my weetbix regarding th ratty greens & that twit from port Macquarie. My sentiments exactly regarding the gobsmacking lack of democracy these neighbourhood issues that have been thrown onto the national agenda. This is a pleasant surprise in writing seeing the punch usually makes me want to throw my weetbix across the room!

    • trexdex says:

      08:36am | 27/02/12

      As usual David has come up with a penchant for the truth! Good article as it states the bloody obvious, but a bit depressing knowing that who ever rules can do what ever they like at the moment, and get away with it claiming a democratic process in action!!

      Don’t know which version they are refering to, but definately not the Australian people’s version.

      Maybe next election we can vote for the PM instead of the party??

    • Farkeno says:

      09:59am | 27/02/12

      73 Jules 29 Rudd the day the music died!

    • Karin says:

      11:19am | 27/02/12

      “As usual David has come up with a penchant for the truth! “

      The truth and journos?

      you must be kidding.

      to pinch a line from Hugh Laurie….

      The Truth,in modern journalistic slang, is not even remotely the truth but it sounds so creepy so I’ll go with it.

    • mr g says:

      12:26pm | 27/02/12

      I spent a while yesterday going through the above posts marking off what were obvious lies by all posters. Provable lies, shown to be so by observed and undeniable facts.
      The score? Anti-Abbott ..4.  Anti-Gillard… 47. Anti Rudd… 9.
      Of course the pattern became clearer when it was simply Lib v ALP. Then the score resulted in 71 v 13 respectively.
      And this is the weak, sad, excuse for an Opposition and its weak, duplicitous sycophants, who would hope to govern this Nation.
      The ignorance of political procedure shown here by the TimBs of our society leave me dumbstruck. TimB loves hypotheticals, IF this and this and this happen in conjunction with that and that and that, then, when we, (?), win an election we,(?), will do this and this as long as the G.G. let’s us despite the fact that she can’t but she might. And then maybe Mugabe gets to represent Benelong?
      Timmy my lad, there is first to be an election. Remember? And do you also remember who topped the polls prior to the 2007 whitewash of the Libs, and the turfing out of the early favorite, one John Winston Howard? Even by his own electorate?
      Don’t try to convince us that you are an aware person, politically, please. You are a repetitive parrot, and your by-rote comments, (which lack any originality and/or political acumen), are boring.
      Do you and your socially and morally retarded groupies really think that politics can be predicted from this far out from an election? Did I say ‘parrot’? Sorry, I meant Galah!

    • Mick says:

      12:54pm | 27/02/12

      There’ve now forced me to vote for Abbott - BUGGER !!

    • Stevo says:

      05:22pm | 27/02/12

      Todays winner was -

      Bill Shorten.

 

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