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Nothing merry about carbon tax money-go-round

Simon Birmingham

by Simon Birmingham

04 Oct 11:50am

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Filed under: Carbon Pricing, Carbon Tax, Climate Change, Economy, Environment, Ets

95 comments

Australia’s carbon market could barely have started in a more farcical manner, or with less certainty.

Cartoon: Mark Knight

In an absurd money-go-round Australia’s government has now started handing over millions of dollars in subsidies ahead of issuing even larger carbon tax bills.

The Clean Energy Regulator’s provision last week of free carbon units to two companies signals the commencement of Australia’s carbon market.  Alcoa and Queensland Nitrates have received 6.37 million free carbon units, worth nearly $150 million at the initial carbon tax rate of $23 per tonne.

Bizarrely, the Gillard Government itself has issued no media release either announcing or welcoming the start of this market or this particular expenditure of taxpayers’ money – not Prime Minister Julia Gillard, not Climate Change Minister Greg Combet, not even Climate Change Parliamentary Secretary Mark Dreyfus.

They left it to the new $256 million member of the carbon tax bureaucracy, the Clean Energy Regulator, to quietly issue a media release late on a Thursday afternoon before a long weekend.

Then again, $150 million is but a fraction of the $8.6 billion expected to be handed out to industry during the first three years of the carbon tax, let alone the total churn generated by the $9 billion a year tax.

Essentially, Labor is handing over a fistful of cash to a select few companies, only to later demand a wheel-barrowful of cash in return.

This churn of money almost makes sense when considered alongside the ongoing chaos and confusion surrounding the carbon tax.

The carbon tax has only been in operation since July and already Labor has scrapped the floor price they once said was necessary for business confidence.  Certainty was also a victim when the Contract for Closure program to shut down power stations was abandoned, meaning the carbon tax will have to be even higher to achieve the same emissions targets or that there will have to be an even greater reliance on the purchase of overseas permits.

Labor’s ongoing rewriting of Australia’s carbon tax laws now also sees their effective outsourcing to Brussels.  The looming linkage between the Australian and European schemes will mean that higher targets set by Europe or faster emissions growth in Europe will result in a higher carbon tax in Australia.

Even claims the carbon tax supports “lowest cost abatement” have been seriously undermined, with another change to the carbon tax laws set to impose a stringent new cap on the use of those international permits that are most likely to be cheapest.

Every change to the carbon tax simply seems to point to higher costs, more churn or more bureaucracy.  Yet none of the changes point to better environmental outcomes or even a small reduction in Australia’s actual emissions in the foreseeable future.

Emissions in Australia and across the world will keep going up, even with the carbon tax in place, even under the government’s own modelling.  The fundamental raison d’être for this tax is just not achieved.

Nonetheless, the giving of carbon permits by one hand of government has begun and will soon be followed by the taking of even more carbon tax by the other hand of government. 

These costs will increasingly pass through the economy, with Australian households and businesses feeling it ever more in each and every electricity bill.  Meanwhile, the long-term impacts to competitiveness will increasingly be felt in every investment decision made. 

There’s no merriness in this carbon tax money-go-round, which is no doubt why the government has become so determined to stop talking about it.

Comments on this post will close at 8pm AEST.

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95 comments

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    • andrew says:

      12:36pm | 04/10/12

      It’s obvious to nearly everyone that the carbon tax is not designed to save the planet, and is just an excuse to give more means tested handouts for anything and everything. The only ones that refuse to see this are those who are receiving said handouts.

      Reply

    • ZSRenn says:

      01:24pm | 04/10/12

      How can it make a change when it saves 0.0% of global emissions. This is a Tax brought about by a lie and put in place by the worst government in Australian history led by Giggles Gillard and Swooning Swan!

    • andye says:

      01:52pm | 04/10/12

      @andrew - “The only ones that refuse to see this are those who are receiving said handouts.”

      I am a high earner who is worse off under the tax and receiving no handouts. I don’t agree with your conspiracy theory, sorry.

    • Babylon says:

      02:33pm | 04/10/12

      Yes Before the Global Warming, sorry disproved, Climate Change religious fanatics get going, the Carbon tax is NOTHING to do with solving global warming, sorry Climate change.

      Its a Tax, to buy votes and buy Industry leaders.

      It’s more of an attack on Australian democratic process than it is a green solution for the planet.

    • AdamC says:

      12:39pm | 04/10/12

      The most outrageous aspect of the carbon tax, which I have pointed out before, is that it will slug high emission, trade exposed industries.

      The outcome of that is, rather than make, say, steel ourselves, we will have to import steel from, say, Korea (along with the emissions implicit in the steel) solely because the Koreans have not been stupid enough to unilaterally impose a tax on heavy industry which will do nothing to reduce carbon emissions around the world.

      Labor and its apologists seem to believe that an emission of CO2 in Korea (to continue the example) is different to a CO2 emission in Australia. I wonder if there is any ‘science’ to support that contention?

      Reply

    • james says:

      01:05pm | 04/10/12

      what % of free permits do trade exposed industries get?

    • Tom says:

      01:05pm | 04/10/12

      AdamC, good question ... “I wonder if there is any ‘science’ to support that contention?”

      Not necessarily “science” but plenty of “scientists”, ex-presidents and other assorted spivs would line up like parrots to give it a whirl.

    • tez says:

      01:24pm | 04/10/12

      AdamC. Australia makes very little steel and it has been that way for decades long before any carbon tax talk it is the same with Aluminium. Brass & Copper. Australia has to rely on what the rest of the world will let us have.

    • sunny says:

      01:52pm | 04/10/12

      AdamC - Korea will move to an ETS in 2015 at the same time we do.

      http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/labor-welcomes-passage-of-ets-in-s-korea-20120503-1y048.html

      As to this article, it’s understandable that heavy industry will receive some leeway in the short term so they can transition some of their energy to cleaner sources of their own accord. The important thing is that it’s in place and industry knows that - in the long term - if they emit a lot of CO2 they’re going to pay a penalty.

    • neo says:

      12:59pm | 04/10/12

      We can afford it. Stop whining.

      Reply

    • Dash says:

      12:51pm | 04/10/12

      Spoken like someone eligible for “compensation”.

    • lostinperth says:

      01:05pm | 04/10/12

      err - no we can’t. This will cost us billions and do nothing to solve greenhouse gas or CO2 emissions.

      let me guess - you are one of the recipients of handouts so it’s OK from your self-centred point of view

    • Tom says:

      01:10pm | 04/10/12

      The “royal we” has spoken straight from the ALP / union throne. Speak for yourself. You weren’t invited to speak for others.

    • Petra says:

      01:11pm | 04/10/12

      The poorest argument I’ve heard to date. Congratulations.

    • Stinky Pete says:

      01:14pm | 04/10/12

      Stop whining you lot neo can afford it! go on neo get you cheque book out lad and pay the bill!

    • Stinky Pete says:

      01:14pm | 04/10/12

      Stop whining you lot neo can afford it! go on neo get you cheque book out lad and pay the bill!

    • craig2 says:

      01:18pm | 04/10/12

      Nero, seriously, alot of people cannot afford the flow on effects of this tax and if you’re a well to do person, good for you but you don’t speak for the everyday Australian who have been shafted by this lying government.

    • Jamie says:

      01:30pm | 04/10/12

      Who’s “we” ?

    • Chris says:

      01:33pm | 04/10/12

      What is this ‘we’ thing Kemosabe?

    • Nathman says:

      01:46pm | 04/10/12

      Neo, if our planet were to be taken over by aliens, I suspect that YOU would be the first to cower, or throw your hands up in surrender only to be gunned down.

      I know which one I’m hoping for.

    • Charles says:

      01:52pm | 04/10/12

      Since the RBA has stated that the mining boom will finish earlier and lower due to the carbon tax, then we possibly cannot afford it, as where will all the monies for the entitlement you and your friends would like from the government come from then?

    • Steve of QBN says:

      02:16pm | 04/10/12

      @Neo.  How do you come by that well thought out and indepth response to this story?  I mean, the tax was brought in to do three things; punish the big polluters, drive down our use of non-renewable fuels and lower the CO2 emissions in Australia.

      Let’s examine these shall we?

      Punish the big polluters.  GIVING them $150 million worth of tax credits does not stop them from polluting.  Rather, it gives them a tax buffer so that they can continue business as usual.  And why give them the money?  Because without it, they would go broke.  Industry moves offshore, unemployment goes up and we have Whyalla wipe out on our TVs.

      Drive down our use of non-renewable fuel.  Not going to happen for a long time.  Coal is cheap and plentiful whereas large scale solar and wind is frightening expensive and unreliable.  All this tax is doing is making cheap power expensive and making expensive power look not quite so expensive.  This cost drives up power prices for the home consumer, the businesses that employs them, the transport that gets them to work and the food they eat.  Make expensive power artificiality cheap and then climb might be a better strategy.

      Lower CO2 emissions in Australia.  Even the Climate Commission says this won’t happen so what is the gain?  If heavy industry goes offshore, this WILL lower the output of CO2 in Australia but at what cost?  Higher unemployment, reliance on buying products over seas which drives up our imports and all the while we are still exporting high CO2 products such as coal, iron ore and bauxite. These CO2 exports will go to India, Bangladesh and Korea and their increased industrialisation will more that replace any “savings” we make.

      Bottom line, we CANNOT afford this tax because it is costing far too much for far too little.

    • andye says:

      02:30pm | 04/10/12

      @Dash - “Spoken like someone eligible for “compensation”.”

      Spoken like someone who always brings class into any argument as soon as he can. Class warfare, anyone?

    • neo says:

      02:53pm | 04/10/12

      So…much…whining…

    • Likeitis says:

      03:18pm | 04/10/12

      @neo i sense much complaining in you

    • Tom says:

      04:06pm | 04/10/12

      So ... much ... trolling.

    • Dash says:

      04:15pm | 04/10/12

      @andye - class warefare is relevant because that’s exactly what the ALP is waging.

      I didn’t say anything about class. I just reminded neo, that it’s easy to say that when someone else is paying the cost for you!

      You’re happy for me to pay your flood levy, your $900 handout, your carbon tax compensation, for your health care and your tax cut. But then you want to condemn me for highlighting how crap this ALP government is! I wonder why?? Have some respect for the people paying your way!

      It’s a bit hard to talk about the Carbon tax without talking about the Socialist wealth redistribuition that is the cornerstone (in fact the sole purpose) of the tax!

    • neo says:

      04:43pm | 04/10/12

      No matter how eloquently you argue against the carbon tax, all you are really saying is “I refuse to pay a few dollars towards preserving the environment”. Should be ashamed.

    • andye says:

      05:04pm | 04/10/12

      @dash - “You’re happy for me to pay your flood levy, your $900 handout, your carbon tax compensation, for your health care and your tax cut. But then you want to condemn me for highlighting how crap this ALP government is! I wonder why?? Have some respect for the people paying your way!”

      Nobody is “paying my way”, champ. I am paying my way. I didn’t get a tax cut because I earn a lot. I am without kids so I don’t even get any middle class welfare. I applied for the dole once (about 20 years ago) and got my first full time job before I was due to collect it. I have been working full time and paying taxes ever since. I got money to help me through uni but had to pay it all back for the first several years I was working. I am probably the most successful person in my family, who are not wealthy.

      Nobody is paying my way, and your class-based attacks which are attempting to question my right to hold an opinion based on my tax status just prove that.

      You are a massive hypocrite without even the nous to try to hide it.

      @dash - “It’s a bit hard to talk about the Carbon tax without talking about the Socialist wealth redistribuition that is the cornerstone (in fact the sole purpose) of the tax!”

      Did you know that a Carbon Tax hits poorer incomes the hardest? I bet you do, but you aren’t going to say it. It would really put a damper on your whole socialist conspiracy theory.

    • Bear says:

      05:33pm | 04/10/12

      People seemed to afford sky rocketing rent and housing prices. A few bucks for electricity isn’t going to be terminal.

    • Dash says:

      05:34pm | 04/10/12

      @andye - poorer classes are being made better off!!! That’s the whole point of this socialist policy. And it uses the environment as an excuse. Yeah the ‘compensation” handouts hit them really hard.

      I’m happy with where my nous has got me champ!

      Baseless accusations of hypocrite says more about you than it does me. As does your continued defence of the fraud, corruption, waste and deceipt of this failed government.

      If you want to get on here and attack me, then at least be man enough to take it after you’ve dished it out!

    • Admiral Ackbar says:

      06:07pm | 04/10/12

      I can’t afford it, you certainly don’t speak for me.

    • Bear says:

      07:05pm | 04/10/12

      @ Admiral. Poor you. The Tory self pity is so justified. Maybe you can sell a few of your slaves?

    • Shane From Melbourne says:

      01:03pm | 04/10/12

      Umm, you do know that Liberal Party’s Direct Action policy on Carbon Emissions Reduction consists entirely of industry subsidies? I wouldn’t use the S word too much when criticizing ALP policy.

      I’ll reiterate my position on carbon reduction policy: It should be a straight carbon tax, not an ETS, no wealth redistribution to offset the effects, carbon tariffs, nuclear power and population stabilization.

      Reply

    • andrew says:

      02:11pm | 04/10/12

      nuclear power and population stabilisation - two options that would actually make a positive difference to the global environment. Thumbs up!

    • fml says:

      02:47pm | 04/10/12

      I agree andrew we need a nuclear population and a power stabilisation, hence, the incredible hulk for prime minister! no one would dare make fun of the size of his bum!

    • ZSRenn says:

      04:08pm | 04/10/12

      Here we go Supporters of this the worst government in Australian history, led by Giggles Gillard and Swooning Swann, have no defense to the argument put forward here today! Therefore their tactic is to hijack the conversation to LNP policy and have a little TA bash for fun.

      If the ALP and its supporters spent more time trying to fix the problems they have created for Australia in their 5 years of government and less time trying to convince us that, even though they produce fuck up after fuck up, they are the best choice at the next election because TA wears speedo’s. Maybe they could save themselves.

      Interestingly Shane from Melbourne must not have got the memo handed out to ace troll and the others re not commenting on this forum to keep it low hit and seemingly uninteresting.

    • james says:

      12:50pm | 04/10/12

      Mr Birmingham, please explain how much taxpayer money “direct action” will cost and how it will it meet our C02 reduction target by 2020.

      Reply

    • nihonin says:

      12:54pm | 04/10/12

      Sorry somin, but I’m going to have call ICB on this opinion, you’re a member of the Liberal party, ‘what the’ would you know about running a country.  wink

      Reply

    • nihonin says:

      02:38pm | 04/10/12

      somin????...fark..Simon (apologies)

    • Dash says:

      12:55pm | 04/10/12

      This is nothing but wealth redistribution parading as environmentalism!

      Gillard has implemented the tax manifesto she proclaimed as a member of the socialist Forum.

      It’s a fraud and a bloody disgrace!

      Discriminating against families on the basis of what they earn not how they pollute, not their carbon footprint. And then to say it’s about making big polluters pay is a load of complete bullshit!

      But then we’ve had nothing but bullshit from Gillard and this lefty pack of morons in the ALP for 4 years!

      Reply

    • Shane From Melbourne says:

      02:28pm | 04/10/12

      When the wealth redistribution by ALP and Liberals discriminates against singles and childless couples it is okay, but when then the government discriminates against families, watch them scream blue murder. Singles and childless couples have suffered for over 20 years, federal budget after federal budget, watching as successive governments introduce new middle class welfare schemes such Baby Bonus, FTA, FTB, School Uniform Allowance, School Laptops, maternity leave etc etc. Absolutely no sympathy Dash, old chap.

    • Kipling says:

      02:39pm | 04/10/12

      Woe up there mate. Not sure if you live in NSW, but our very generous state government is enacting its own form of wealth distribution, admitedly there is no lie attached, they just pushed through in secret….

      Check out changes to workers compensation for starters, there is a redistribution straight to those poor hard done by insurance companies.

      Then have a look at the new levy that is being introduced to do with fire protection. More wealth redistribution, straight back to insurance companies (those poor hard done by bastards).

      Insurance companies stand to pocket billions from this deal annualy, with no requirement to give it back. Yet insurance policies will no doubt continue to increase to mitigate costs of payouts.

      That will also discriminate against families, not because of what they earn though, but because they need to live in houses and houses can burn down.

      I guess in short, what you are overlooking is that there are no shortage on bullshit or morons on the other side either. I guess that is a bitter pill to swallow if you are for the other side.

    • Dash says:

      04:07pm | 04/10/12

      @Shane - no mate, they are also discriminating against you on the basis of your income. And that holds true for all singles.

      Any single earning over $80,000 gets nothing! They get to wear the cost regardless of how they pollute or their carbon footprint. And no I don’t think that is OK at all. I agree with you 100% on the welfare piece.

      I hate this compensation scheme because it is the true reason behind this tax. The government used the environment to implement a wealth redictribution scheme to take more money from me and you and give it to ALP demographics. It’s bullshit.

      @Kipling you have picked the wrong guy to bring those points up with. I’m a finance guy in insurance, and sorry but you do not understand.

      Firstly, Insurers administer workers comp on behalf of the state government. Workers comp was taken over by state governments because it’s cost was becoming prohibitive. And the NSW State government under the ALP had a massive, massive black hole that was bleeding taxpayers.

      Workers compensation insurance is a loss making venture for the government! The Insurers get an administration fee for service but the taxpayer loses in the end. The alternative is to privatise it again. But then the cost would become prohibitive because the insurance companies wouldn’t write that business unless it was economical to do so. So you’re argument is wrong and it certainly is not the fault of the state LNP! They realise how much money the NSW ALP was bleeding on this. And btw, the insurers do not rate policies for workers comp.

      In terms of the Fire Service Levy, you are wrong. Badly wrong!
      The duty to pay for the fire services should rest with all those who own property (i.e. have exposure to a fire risk), not just those who have policies of insurance. Fire and ISR policies include a fire service levy in the state of NSW. The proposal is to move this away from insurance policies and on to property. And so it should.

      If you don’t own an insurance policy against fire damage to your home and I do, why should I subsidise the fire service on your behalf?? That’s wrong! You should pay for the service just as I do. And that’s what is being proposed. And I might add, that is how it works in W.A. and that is also the proposal in Victoria. It’s a much more equitable system than the one we currently have.

      Kipling, the proposed changes to Workers Comp and to Fire Service Levy are both more equitable for the people of NSW and less descriminatory than the existing system.

    • Joan says:

      01:03pm | 04/10/12

      A nonsense tax ,  shackled to worlds biggest losers the Euro countries to Australia   from Gillard surprise surprise. Gillard will kill Australian economy and household budgets and jobs before rising carbon dioxide levels ever will. The save the world kindergarten mentality minority running the country - no adults there - Gillard Labor spending too much time at kindergartens getting advice on how to run country.

      Reply

    • Bruno says:

      01:10pm | 04/10/12

      I really don’t understand all the fuss. I mean i think we have the worst government in history as much as the next guy but it’s a tax.

      Just like every other tax in history the cost will be passed down we will complain then eventually we will get used to it.

      climate change is hot topic, some people believe some don’t but no’one who doesn’t has said that being green is bad.. just unnecessary.

      So chill out guys relax so who cares that you’ll be paying 5% extra for milk and banana’s and electricity

      could be worse you could live in Syria,  right now.

      Reply

    • Cars says:

      01:10pm | 04/10/12

      Please do not use french phrases in your writing, especially ones that have an exact, simple, english translation like “reason for being”. It makes you sound prétentieux.

      Reply

    • GigaStar says:

      04:38pm | 04/10/12

      Why?? - because the chattering classes won’t understand what he’s saying.

    • Inky says:

      01:10pm | 04/10/12

      Blah blah blah Carbon Tax blah blah blah Federal Government.

      Snore. Next Please.

      Reply

    • Jamie says:

      02:47pm | 04/10/12

      Yeah, go back to sleep, Dopey.

    • Don says:

      01:14pm | 04/10/12

      That’s what you get when a quasi-Marxist political party hiding behind the guise of environmentalism holds the nation to ransom.
      (The Greens).

      It takes economic literacy, energy technological awareness, business friendly consideration and knowledge of international competiviteness to design a CO2 abatement scheme worthy of the paper it is written on!

      Reply

    • pa_kelvin says:

      01:25pm | 04/10/12

      Of topic I know, but anyone else see the ad for a drunk lawn-mower to the right of screen….. kinda funny.

      Reply

    • pa_kelvin says:

      03:39pm | 04/10/12

      It’s gone… :(

    • Nikki says:

      01:27pm | 04/10/12

      I’ve stopped getting angry about the carbon tax because I, like millions of other voters know that it will be scrapped after the next election and the clowns who implemented it will be on the dole queue.

      Reply

    • Bruno says:

      02:14pm | 04/10/12

      with their compensation packages pleeeease.

    • Kipling says:

      02:42pm | 04/10/12

      I won’t complain if I am wrong about this, but I think you are being naively optomistic if you think any Government regardless of brand will scrap an income source.

    • tez says:

      03:10pm | 04/10/12

      Don’t like your chances

    • Bruno says:

      03:15pm | 04/10/12

      very true mate especially since we have a year and a half to get used to it.

      The libs will clue in and take it off their agenda in about 3 months.. then they’ll silently start to say it’s not bad, then it’s okay, then we have made modifications to turn the carbon tax into the direct scheme by changing the name smile and we all swallow it because we is stupiddddddd

    • james says:

      04:42pm | 04/10/12

      It will be renamed the direct carbon action plan.

    • Kika says:

      01:28pm | 04/10/12

      Big whoop. Big deal. We learned to live with GST and we will learn to live with this one. Move on.

      Reply

    • Max Power says:

      02:29pm | 04/10/12

      Just like will learn to live with next one and the one after that and the one after that, hey. Let us just keeping paying more taxes whilst at no point demanding the government spend the taxes they are already receiving more efficiently and effectively.
      At some point, we will run out of enough people to tax to pay for the welfare and free ride of others.

    • craig2 says:

      05:06pm | 04/10/12

      Kika: If you’re happy to live with being lied too, that’s your perogative. At least Howard took his GST to the election and we, the public, voted him back in. Have some standards Kikka becuase you’ve just shown a serious creditability issue right now….

    • Bear says:

      05:23pm | 04/10/12

      The GST was the biggest tax increase ever and he did lie when he said ‘it was killed at the 93-4? election. Then brought it back later.  Get back your box. Will ever get over it? You lost!!!!!

    • Cat says:

      01:51pm | 04/10/12

      Got our electricity bill the other day, used less electricity than before (nothing like adding an extra ancient woollen in winter) and we are only paying 50% more than we did last time…that’s right only 50%. Of course some of that is “infrastructure” costs to repair our ageing system but the rest of the rise was - well, the carbon tax.
      Now if they were planting trees with these ill gotten gains I might not mind so much but, as it is, I do mind. I mind because the government is wasting the money raised paying back money we do not have but it borrowed to bribe the electorate. Have to pay that back.
      Other things have risen too…yes, definitely worse off under the carbon tax - and a Labor MP boasted to me that “measures have been put in place which will make it impossible for the incoming Coalition government to dismantle it and then we will have them!”

      Reply

    • SAm says:

      02:43pm | 04/10/12

      Actually im going to interject here. I also just got a massive increase, and was bloody annoyed, instantly assuming the ‘tax’ was responsible. Then I saw the NSW governments ‘estimator’ as to how much the carbon tax was costing me. Dividing by my usage, about $50 of the bill was related to the carbon tax, the other $150 more than last winter was greedy/poorly managed electricty company cashgrab. Given this was a NSW govt estimate (no fans of the carbon tax there) I can only assume that no, the tax is not the major cause of the massive rises we are seeing.
      PS Im far from a supporter of the tax, waste of time/money if you ask me

    • Jess says:

      05:27pm | 04/10/12

      I’m still a fan of the carbon tax being itemised on Electrity bills like the GST.

    • Simon says:

      01:54pm | 04/10/12

      The refugees get 60 grand a year each and free rent a free house and we to pay through gillards nose. Pensioners are starving to death. We’ve never had it so bad. Woe is us.

      Reply

    • Psy-Op Ganganstyle says:

      02:02pm | 04/10/12

      The money all goes to a Fourth Reich in Europe that is stolen from poor Australians electricity bills, we all need to apologise to Alan Jones asap

      Reply

    • Michael says:

      02:17pm | 04/10/12

      I know its a disaster. I’d much rather donate wads to Gina and Andrew. This is so unfair on these great Australians.

      Reply

    • Nicki says:

      02:37pm | 04/10/12

      Gina and Andrew employ thousands of people, you know, the blue-collar folks that Comrades Gillard and Swan are so fond of championing yet seem hell-bend on destroying the very industry that puts food on their tables. Yeah, evil old capitalists like Gina and Twiggy, who put billions into the economy to contribute to a ‘Boom’ that can then be pillaged into oblivion to pay the Labor party’s Visa bill, how dare they build businesses that give so many a livelihood, and how VERY dare they create and fund programs and training for disadvantaged individuals and communities when they see that the Govt is failing to provide such services.

    • Jamie says:

      02:46pm | 04/10/12

      Or, you could stop whinging about rich people and go work towards becoming one yourself.

    • fml says:

      03:06pm | 04/10/12

      They are the true battlers.

    • Anna C says:

      02:43pm | 04/10/12

      My winter electricity bill was double that of last years even though I had reduced my electricity consuption. Unlike most people I did not qualify for any compensation because of the Carbon tax.  Meanwhile many high electricity users mainly low to middle income families were over compensated.  Where is the sense in that? It just goes to show that the Carbon tax is more about wealth redistribution and less about reducing carbon levels.

      Reply

    • Gratuitous Adviser says:

      02:44pm | 04/10/12

      Doesn’t it make you feel embarrassed that this issue was not discussed and decided on a bi-partisan basis like it was supposed to be, going back to Mr. Howard’s 2006 E.T.S.  The Liberals are doing nothing more than point score, for petty politics benefit alone, instead of making a contribution for the advancement of Australia and its citizens.

      On a general note, you cannot say “No, No, No” on every single issue and be considered anything else other than a saboteur of a better Australia.  I guess it will stay this way while Mr. Abbott is the leader and silly Alan Jones is the mentor of the politically conservative in contemporary Australia.

      By the by:  By chance yesterday, I heard an interview between a representative of the Q Society and a very enthusiastic “young thing” from the ABC.  By the way, the Q Society is the mob that is bringing out this Dutch politician that everyone is worried about.  Whoever the Q Society spokesman was, he made some very intelligent points, considering the enthusiastic “young thing” was constantly in interruptive debate with him instead of conducting an interview.  He handled himself very well and if you have been to England or Europe lately, it’s tough not to agree that a time bomb is developing over there. 

      Ironically, there was a Green politician on straight after and he was luckier with his reception from the ABC reporter.  Funny that!

      Reply

    • nihonin says:

      03:39pm | 04/10/12

      ‘On a general note, you cannot say “No, No, No” on every single issue and be considered anything else other than a saboteur of a better Australia.’

      Only said No, No, No on a few pieces of legislation actually, don’t believe me check Hansard.

    • GigaStar says:

      04:27pm | 04/10/12

      “On a general note, you cannot say “No, No, No” on every single issue and be considered anything else other than a saboteur of a better Australia.”

      But the ALP keep talking-up all the legislation they’ve got through the minority parliament. I think you’ve been duped by all the propaganda GA.

    • Robert S McCormick says:

      02:56pm | 04/10/12

      Not being involved in what is left of Australia’s Industries I don’t know what the effect will be on them.
      I am baffled. I thought the CO2 Tax was to impact on all polluters but in particular the really big ones such as the few Aluminium & Steel smelters or whatever they are and that they were to be taxed in an effort to REDUCE the amount of CO2 & other pollutants they have been happily pumping out for decades.
      Now we are told they are being granted permits worth hundreds of millions to simply go on doing as they always have done!
      Electricity bills for householders are only now starting to come in. The period between July 1st and September was a bit like the Phony Wars at the beginning of WW1 & WWII when almost nothing happend.
      Even before the CO2 tax came in many have been trying to reduce their contribution to CO2 etc - much to the Electricity producers & retailers horror consumption has, we are told, been falling - in part contributing to the obscene increases in prices so the likes of AGL, Origin etc. can balance their books & increase their profits!!
      I am waitiing until my electricity bill arrives later this month, though we are on Green Energy & paying the extra we have been told that, whereas before the CO2 Tax our bill showed no emissions, our October bill will include a CO2 component. I can’t work that out for we get electronic bills instead of paper ones & still subscribe to Green Energy!
      No matter by how much, isn’t it true that as a result of this new Tax it will impact on everyone, every business, every manufacturer? The two latter ones will want to recoup that extra charge incurred by the CO2 Tax, won’t they?
      How will they do that? Isn’t the answer that they will simply raise their wholesale prices which will mean that retailers will also have to raise theirs & pass those increases on to the public? Like Compound Interest there will be incremental increases at every stage, won’t there?
      Treasury used, we were told, a $20 per tonne CO2 price in their modelling.
      The Government tacked on another $3 per tonne for good measure.
      At the same time, we were told, they modelled their Compensation Package on Treasuries $20 not the actual amount of $23!
      It’s all far too confusing for this older person!!!

      Reply

    • Jess says:

      05:24pm | 04/10/12

      Paying for Green energy means that you are paying for your electricty company to buy more green energy then what is mandated. All energy goes into the grid you don’t neccessarily end up at your house. Apparently the energy companies are taking their carbon tax liability and dividing it accross all customers anyway. By paying for extra green energy you are helping to reduce the whole carbon tax liability of the energy company. Green energy or not you would still pay the carbon tax on the infrastructure of the grid as well. 
      At least that is what the Canberra Energy company is doing

    • Garbage says:

      03:25pm | 04/10/12

      It was a Big Fat Lie from day one!, and it’s been lie after lie ever since. In the name of the “environment” the Labor Government bought in another slush fund, to cover their excessive wasting of tax payers money. The biggest con in history ever!

      Reply

    • Benzo says:

      03:30pm | 04/10/12

      I don’t get all you right winged suck ups… Most of the comments in this thread are out right rubbish…  eg “the carbon tax increased my power bill by P”  down right lies..  “The refugees get 60 grand a year each and free rent a free house” and “Pensioners are starving to death. We’ve never had it so bad.” more utter fantasy… where not in Ethiopia mate..
      “The money all goes to a Fourth Reich in Europe that is stolen from poor Australians electricity bills”  don’t know were to start with that one…
      have you actually looked at the alternative if the the carbon tax is scrapped??  Tony’s direct action plan??  Most economists are advising this will cost us a lot more then the carbon tax.. plus the principle of this system is to pay the big polluters with tax payers money with the hope that giving them handouts will make the reduce their carbon output….   
      Tony Abbott him self has said a number of time a Carbon Tax is the most efficient was of putting a price on carbon, but now the govt has adopted it it’s the devil..
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPpQisoZqx4

      But of course i doubt this post will even get posted as it’s not criticising the government

      Reply

    • GigaStar says:

      04:35pm | 04/10/12

      “plus the principle of this system is to pay the big polluters with tax payers money with the hope that giving them handouts will make the reduce their carbon output”

      Benzo - do you realise that the big polluters have been compensated by the ALP under their system. The big polluters are set to actually make a profit under the ALP system.

      “But of course i doubt this post will even get posted as it’s not criticising the government”

      Don’t be so paranoid…

    • Kika says:

      04:56pm | 04/10/12

      Exactly… We’re doing just fine. The ones complaining about their power bill are misinformed… the power bills went up before the carbon tax even came in. It’s price gouging.

    • Alex says:

      05:09pm | 04/10/12

      Well Tony is not in power so yes Labor are at fault, they stuffed up, and you need to see the reality of the entire situation.
      The cost of the carbon tax is much larger then just a $50 printout on your bill.. It’s implementing the changes in all the IT/Billing system to account for this rubbish, the extra government agencies setup to deal with complaints and the money go-round, from handouts to hand backs…
      So stop trying to blame someone who is NOT running the country and not implementing this burden on all the families in Australia. Stop siding with excuses from ALP blaming the state governments… I bet they wouldnt have said that if state was ALP run…

    • BruceS says:

      03:44pm | 04/10/12

      Thank you Simon. As each day passes the evidence proving the global warming scare project, to be fraudulent, is mounting. I once saw a training film of a tiger being crushed to death by a python, which was quite disturbing. To watch the death of Australian society by the crushing carbon dioxide tax is and will be disturbing to witness.

      Reply

    • BobB says:

      04:31pm | 04/10/12

      thanks for the comic relief.

      To watch the death of Australian society by the negative destructive carping of Abbott, Akerman, Bolt and Jones is and will continue to be disturbing to witness.

    • Benzo says:

      05:01pm | 04/10/12

      “As each day passes the evidence proving the global warming scare project, to be fraudulent, is mounting” 

      Care to name some of this evidence and proof?
      Im sure your sources will be as reputable as real scientists such as the NASA team?! 
      Maybe you should read their site for the unbiased facts rather then listen to the people that have no scientific back ground like Alan Jones and “lord” Monkton ect..
      http://climate.nasa.gov/

    • Richard A says:

      03:45pm | 04/10/12

      I just wish that those pesky climate scientists could scientifically prove how tax money directly affects global cooling, global warming or is it climate change.

      Reply

    • thatmosis says:

      07:47pm | 04/10/12

      Its all of the above and none of the above. In reality it is crap and a con perpetrated on the poor old tax payer by an almost Government who don’t really know what they are doing but their doing it well.
        Hope that settles your worries as it hasn’t settled mine.

    • Bear says:

      05:04pm | 04/10/12

      I don’t even recall this supposed ‘lie’ before the election. That’s how much a non issue it was before the election. Talk about a whole campaign based on revisionist history.

      Reply

    • James O says:

      05:39pm | 04/10/12

      If i understand correctly the carbon tax is to be an incremental tax that will by it’s implementation also likely increase inflation over the years, in the short term consumers will not be directly effected untill the ongoing cost increases of doing business can no longer be absorbed without financial detriment. Companies that rely on heavy transport will be at a disadvantage because the eventual inceases in fuel and energy costs will need to be passed on and as there is not likely to be an efficient cheaper alternative to diesel before the end of this decade most consumer goods will rise in price every year. To balance things older cars will also be more inflationary for the average motorist, this will potentially produce a glut of second hand cars and a slowing of new car sales unless the expensive hybrid cars are more subsidised by the government. Service industries will also become more expensive and potentially risks a serious home hazard with electrical and gas maintenance issues in peoples homes as home handyman fixes become more common place to avoid the higher costs of tradesman. If the trading of carbon credits becomes another tax avoidance scheme for big business it could well become an long term burden on the tax system and a nightmare to sort out without massive litigation costs, multi-national companies would have little trouble exploiting any tax loopholes left by the ATO, importing their own fuel and energy needs from cheaper subsidiary resources could well end up as a form of lucrative barter scheme between themselves.The main thing that isn’t going to change is the cost of energy for the average consumer it will be going up and up, as Abbott says, no matter who is in power. Voters must not forget that Abbott and the LNP have not ignored the climate question themselves some tax increases will happen if the LNP get into power but between the ALP and the LNP it is the rate of those cost increases that will make the difference to every Australian’s future standard of living. Overall the carbon tax will not hurt big business to any great degree but the weaning of the community to a less self indulgent life style will be a harder lesson to learn, this lesson will be sooner with the ALP but it will happen, the world’s economy is changing and new energy products will be a strong part of it.

      Reply

    • Steve Putnam says:

      06:33pm | 04/10/12

      Simon, would it be too much to expect one of the conservatives on this site to say something about their “Direct Action” plan? All we ever get from you Tories is endless parroting of the “wrecking ball through the economy” scare campaign. Do you seriously think that this disrespect for the electorate will hold up come the next election?
      Everyone knows Abbott himself said in July 2009 that the “simplest and easiest way” to confront global warming was “to put a tax on carbon”. So what has changed? Why then but not now? I know Abbott wants you to keep on message and hasn’t permitted you to talk about other stuff, but don’t you ever get the feeling that the time is drawing nearer to when your going to have to show your hand?

      Reply

    • Ma Thatcher says:

      07:27pm | 04/10/12

      Yea I can’t afford $50 a year for a carbon tax but I can afford a $1400 a year donation to Gina on principle. The donation is just a measure of my love for them and a show of faith on principle.

    • ZSM says:

      07:33pm | 04/10/12

      If you’re going to quote somebody can you at least provide a link so those of us that aren’t simply regurgitating the ALP party line can check it’s veracity Steve. Let’s be honest, after the 6% debt to GDP ratio blatnat lie you’ve been peddling around here lately, you aren’t the most credible source.

    • Achmed says:

      07:20pm | 04/10/12

      Before i race around extolling the virutes of Abbott’s plan to repeal the carbon tax I would like to see some questions answered.
      Will the tax cuts and compensation linked to the CT in the current tax legislation also be repealed?
      If not, how will they be funded?  No really, not just some iry fairy cut costs statement.
      If the CT is repealed will the price rises blamed on it also be repealed?
      How will the Ct price rises be sperated from normal business cost increases?
      How much taxpayer money from the budget is Abbott going to give to the polluters?
      How will he ensure the polluters spend the money as intended and not just add it to the profit bottom line or CEO bomus?
      How much land will he need to plant his trees that is part of the direct action plan?  How much will the land cost?  How much will the trees cost?  How much will it cost to plant?  Water/maintenance etc?
      Will the land be current farm land or will the trees replace our food stock land?
      How much will it cost to set up a Dept to ensure the money given to polluters is spent properly?
      How much taxpayer money will be spent compensating polluters who have bought carbon credits?

      Reply
 
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