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The big headaches are just starting for Julia

Mark Kenny

by Mark Kenny

04 Dec 06:00am

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Filed under: Carbon Credits, Elitism, Julia Gillard, The Greens, Victorian Election

143 comments

The shock defeat of the Brumby state government last weekend has unleashed the usual muttering within the ALP about how to shore-up a crumbling base.

If only the voters were as enthusiastic and compliant as these kids. Photo: Lyndon Mechielsen

Already, some Labor MPs - let’s call them the GOM or “grumpy old men’’ - reckon they have it pegged. Too much focus on the inner-city elites at the expense of the majority, the ordinary folk in middle and outer-suburbs. That’s their message: Labor should concern itself exclusively with bread and butter issues such as relieving cost of living pressures for ``ordinary’’ families. Nothing else.

Analytically speaking, this ‘government-out-of-touch’ critique is a soft target. Self evidently, if you lose, you were not in tune with voters. But it is rarely that simple and ignores the fact that in this instance that Labor was asking for another four years to add to its existing eleven in office. History shows this is almost always a bridge too far.

But the idea that governments should stay away from any reforms or policies that do not directly benefit the normally disengaged middle majority, is a recipe for witheringly small horizons.

Basically it says that any change that does not spontaneously fly in the suburbs, should be ruled out. It is a curious stance for a social democratic party to adopt. Imagine if Gough Whitlam, had decided there was no case for land rights or other social reforms because, for example, any minorities involved were just that, minorities. Or if Bob Hawke and Paul Keating had concluded that economic reforms (yes, the same ones Labor now cites as the foundations of the current miracle economy) were inappropriate because ordinary folk would have had their noses out of joint in the short-term?

In any event, this argument is being put right now regarding Victoria not as a contribution to the historical record but as Trojan horse for looming gripes at the federal level. The chief irritant is the return of the gay marriage debate but there is a general resentment of the resurgent left too.

Warning flags are being waved inside Labor that the minority Gillard Government is in danger of becoming slave to the far-left agenda of the Greens. These flag wavers caution that Greens policies might win plaudits from tertiary educated inner-city types but they are electoral poison further out from the CBD. And they say that in her endeavour to maintain parliamentary stability Ms Gillard risks going too far to accommodate the Greens’ inherently boutique manifesto.

“There’s a feeling that she sees more of them, that she spends more time on them, than she does with her own backbench,’’ one figure griped to a colleague. If nothing else, this suggests it is not just voters who have denied Ms Gillard a honeymoon. Worse, it suggests even some Labor MPs are yet to grasp the reality of minority government.

Even so, it is beyond dispute that since the election, the Greens have made their leverage count. Sure, their sole lower house MP, Adam Bandt, would be the first number added to Labor’s column in a no confidence motion, but the party’s uber-experienced leader, Bob Brown, extracted a high price including: a parliamentary climate change committee; a parliamentary debate on Afghanistan; dedicated time for debating and voting on private members’ bills; Greens access to Treasury for policy costing and advice; and a referendum on recognising Indigenous Australians. All have either been delivered or are in the pipeline.

These concessions raised eyebrows amongst GOM at the time, but they kept schtum. Now however, their acquiescence is under new strain particularly because within just months of the deal, even things rejected by Ms Gillard have crept on to her to-do list. Notably, a carbon price, which is now a priority for 2011, and what looks like a path at least towards the possible legalisation of gay marriage.

To the GOM the carbon price reversal is bad enough. It leaves Labor vulnerable to Tony Abbott’s effective ``big new tax on everything’’ campaign which is why he’s out there warning that household electricity prices would double with a carbon price of $40 per tonne. Along with Abbott, the GOM believe environmentalists would happily shut down every coal-fired power station and coal mine in the country, if they had the chance with no regard for the thousands made jobless or the impact on suburban family budgets.

But it’s the Greens’ social agenda on issues like gay marriage that has the GOM most riled.
While Ms Gillard has given that issue no personal impetus, and even reassured conservatives that she will uphold current ALP policy, they note that she has also brought forward National Conference to late next year. A spirited fight looms and most in the party believe the unmarried Ms Gillard, a former Left-faction champion, is as personally relaxed about gay marriage as the next man, woman, or transgender.

It is in this context that the GOM refloated nuclear power this week. It was their Crocodile Dundee moment: you call that a debate, you think gay marriage would be a difficult pill to swallow? Try this on!

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143 comments

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    • Agsinst the Man says:

      05:48am | 04/12/10

      Mark, lots of my ALP voting buddies are telling me that voting for the ALP at the federal level last time around was the biggest mistake they have made in their entire life. Gillard is incompetent, ineffective, basically Bob Brown’s personal puppet and it appears she is doing all this so that she can remain PM with the support of the Greens; the best for Australia is the least of her concerns.

      My addition to all this is the shambles and waste in health care, we have been conned into believing that health care was under control but I’m sure many readers will notice how much worse it has been getting since the ALP has been in power.

      http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/gp-clinic-with-everything-except-gps/story-fn59niix-1225964826885

      What a joke and the Medical Observer points out that Nurse Practioners want to get the same, exact Medicare rebate for seeing patients as doctors/ GPs. How insane is that. Next we will have privates in the army wanting the same pay as their officers in charge, Sounds very much like communism, wait a minute wasn’t Gillard part of the communist party in her younger days?

      Wake up Australia, put pressure for a change of government now before it is too late.

      Reply

    • Reg says:

      06:56am | 04/12/10

      My first pause for a reality check came when I read that the Greens were far left. I had visions of uniformed decorated veterans marching in front of their ICBMs and wide tracked tanks. Things must certainly have changed. Not to mention that they’re anti-nuclear, but no doubt the faux liberals will bring them around to acceptance. Apparently by my old values this makes the faux-liberals, left-wing. I am now wondering how often it will have to be exclaimed before the voters come around to accepting that the Greens are left. This is a good start though.

      The faux liberals have always deftly avoided the reality of coalition by simply ignoring the Nationals and encouraging clown like displays from their leaders. No problem there. Unfortunately for Labor the Greens are far too smart by comparison with the Nationals who would bend over for anyone and so we have the reality of the private Bill presenting an opportunity for even the poor generously ignored Nationals. They must be lying awake at night plotting their own left wing uprising, only with images of tractors, harvesters and pitchforks decorated by ragged overalls and clenched fists. That’s the ticket chaps a good people’s revolt should get Tony off his urban ass onto his dainty sand clenching toes.

      Reply

    • Wayne Fehlhaber says:

      02:41pm | 04/12/10

      Reg :  The subject ( you seem to have gone off on another tangent) is
      the Gillard minority government’s enslavement to the Greens far left agenda.
      As Against the Man says (above) health care is now much worse since Labor came to power . 
      He is right , health has worsened , Labor delivered nothing in relation to it’s promises . The undeniable reality is that the Greens have hobbled the Government to debate on the radical gay marriage plan and the Carbon price issue which threatens to add massively to household electricity charges.
      The government is unable to function as it has been side tracked away from priority concerns.
      At this very moment , Australia is without a sound functioning government and if we thought things were already bad , then we should steady ourselves for much worse to come.

    • thatmosis says:

      08:03am | 04/12/10

      Hard times indeed, how can she now introduce a Climate Change tax when we have just had the wettest Spring for decades and looks as though the Summer will be just as wet. Sort of makes all the doom and gloom scenarios look like pure fiction and the Greens with egg, free range of course, on their collective faces. We are back to where we were a decade or two ago when this type of weather was the norm. To place a tax on nothing for no reason but to placate the ever increasingly irrelevant Greens will just put another nail in the already to be nailed down Labor Coffin. To raise the price of everything that the people buy including food and utilities whilst making our industries uncompetitive is just what we dont need now. To go it alone in the world on this scare mongering scheme which will do nothing for the planet is ludicrous when it means the potential to make the lower paid people of this country suffer again.  Victoria gone, NSW to follow shortly and then the end of Anna Bligher with the coalition in Tasmania on the brink of collapse and Labor will be a one horse town.

      Reply

    • iansand says:

      04:05pm | 04/12/10

      Wettest Spring for decades?  Perhaps that is an indication that the climate is changing.

    • Fiddlesticks says:

      05:00pm | 04/12/10

      Thamosis is confusing weather with climate. Very tired old ploy.

      However, there is a point here.

      The climate is global scale. The weather, more local.

      Heat is simply energy. More energy=more volatility.

      Put more heat in, more energy, has to go somewhere. More volatile results, on both scales.

      But then, that’s at the heart of the global warming case and has been for decades now. Expect more volatile conditions.

      Some places dryer. Some places wetter. Some places colder, some places hotter. Tropical storms larger, later, and moving beyond recent bounds.

      All depends on how the great ocean current cycles, really big, huge momentum, get affected by…..more heat.

      Right now in our part of the world, we’re under an El Nina Pacific event that’s producing an unusually high “warm” spike - highest recorded to date. Result - wide spread rains our side. Too bad for the other side!

      Summary: Global warming. Warmer overall. More volatile overall.

      Time to stop whingeing. Time to stop peddling half-baked, half-understood myths.

      Time to get cracking.

    • Ryan says:

      08:30am | 05/12/10

      @Fiddlesticks: care to tell us how many degrees per year the global temperature will drop if we implement a carbon tax, I personally want a KPI on this otherwise this urgent call to implement a carbon tax is just “peddling half-baked, half-understood myths” is it not?

    • The Badger says:

      12:34pm | 05/12/10

      Ryan
      These are the questions that you should direct to Bolt.
      He is the only one who can answer these questions
      You can find him at The Hun.

    • Steve Putnam says:

      06:06pm | 05/12/10

      You are obviously unaware that Climate Change doesn’t mean a uniform rise in temperature. What it predicts is climatic disruption on a massive scale. As forrest fires rage out of control in Israel,(a country that has, of necessity, been able since its foundation, to meet any dangers that arise) consider the extremes that have occurred in the world’s weather over the last twelve months: 40 degree temperatures in Moscow, The Vistula frozen solid for the first time in recorded history; the most sever flooding ever in Pakistan, leaving 20 million people homeless….I think we’re seeing just that.
      We just can’t go on doing the things we’ve been doing——we have to change for the sake of the planet——its the only one we’ve got!

    • Northern Steve says:

      07:49pm | 05/12/10

      To back up Fiddlesticks, up here in the North, we recorded 600mm of rain in November, part of the dry season, in which the average is 80mm.  600mm is far and away a record rainfall.  What caused it?  Warmer than average ocean temperatures.  Sure, locally it was cooler due to cloud cover, but looking at the broader picture, the average temperature across the areas that affect our weather is higher than usual. 

      Consequences?  A lot of our farmers could not harvest a significant proportion of cane, losing tens of thousands of dollars each in annual income.  For our community, that’s a big hit, and unsustainable in the long run.  If the climate continues like this, then our community will no longer be viable, and will either disappear or will need to adapt which will cost money.  Spending money now in the way of carbon reduction will be cheaper in the long run.  A carbon tax which encourages low carbon industries will in the end cost much less.

    • Ryan says:

      09:11am | 06/12/10

      Dear thepunch.. how is it that you can post Fiddlesticks offensive post about me and subsequently filter my reply to such a low attack in a feeble attempt to discredit me.

    • The Badger says:

      09:12am | 06/12/10

      “when we have just had the wettest Spring for decades”

      that’s funny, in West Australia ,we’ve have just had the hottest spring in more than 130 years of records
      not only that it was dry.
      There was only 76mm of rain, the driest since 1969 and fourth driest on record.

      Seems some people judge climate change by looking out their windows and can see no further than the end of their nose.

      Kind of like mark thinking we should base the NBN on what hardware Harvey Norman has in stock.

    • Fiddlesticks says:

      11:16am | 06/12/10

      For the record, my second post - since censored -  was wholly *inoffensive*.

      It simply pointed out that misrepresentation was part of the problem.

      If Ryan or The Punch find the facts of the matter offensive, and prefers misrepresentation and poor argument, that leaves us nowhere to go in a supposedly open discussion.

      Censorship be dashed.

      FIddlesticks out.

    • Northern Steve says:

      09:14pm | 06/12/10

      Ryan, Global Climate Change (due primarily due ot more CO2 in the atmosphere) will result in more extreme weather.  More heat means more energy in the atmosphere, which will mean both more extreme droughts, and when it rains, more rain.  Some places will have much less rain than previously, some will have more, some will have more variance in the climate.

      Understand that where the doubt is in climate change science, it is not in the fact that there will be changes, but more that we still don’t know enough to be able to predict exactly what those changes will be.  But we do know that we will see more extremes.  So more droughts and more heavy storms and wet seasons are both possible at the same time, perhaps in different parts of the world, or in different years..

    • Ryan says:

      12:54pm | 07/12/10

      @Northern Steve: “we still don’t know enough to be able to predict exactly what those changes will be” but you know you need cash and a lot of it to feather your nests. So if I get this straight then, you want me to pay more taxes to pay for something you aren’t quite sure about, nor what those changes will be (even though we know its the weather and it ALWAYS changes), can’t give a definitive result nor use of said taxes and can’t guarantee any actual outcome of paying this money such as the actual number of degrees per year that paying a carbon tax will reduce the global temperature? Certainly sounds like snake oil to me!

      Last time there was a “consensus” it was the Ozone hole and we were all doomed because CFC’s take over 100 years for them to dissipate. That cash cow sure disappeared when it didn’t do what the so-called “scientists” predicted. So much for consensus.

    • Northern Steve says:

      12:00am | 08/12/10

      Ryan, Climate and Weather are two very different things.  If you don’t get the difference, then it is no wonder you don’t understand the debate.

      Reread my (and others) statements.  Understand what the science is saying.  We KNOW that there will be changes to climates.  We don’t know exactly what they will be.  However, we do know that climate changes do have significant impacts.  So to sum up: we know there will be significant impacts on the world, we’re just not sure what those impacts will be exactly.  If we reduce CO2 production, then those impacts will be lessened.  There is no reputable scientist that will disagree with that basic premise.

      And as far as CFCs and ozone, you have just proven my point - global action reversed the use of CFCs, and over the last few decades we have seen a slow reversal of the the loss of ozone.  As time continues, that will also continue, for about 100 years, until the excess CFCs already in the atmosphere have dissipated.

    • Ryan says:

      06:39am | 08/12/10

      @Northern Steve: no reputable scientist you say, yet there are NASA climate scientists conducting their own research to point out the lies and filth being propagated on this “science” you speak of.
      What is obvious is that the “scientists” of disrepute are on the GLOBAL WARMING side (and don’t think we don’t know you changed your global warming tag to climate change because you know there was cooling of recent), we KNOW all about the climategate scandal and the university of East Anglia being caught “fudging the figures” in the code of their computer models to ensure all graphs show a “hockey stick” we also know about the emails where they mention (and I quote) “The fact is that we cannot account for the lack of warming at the moment and it’s a travesty that we can’t.” so they decided to ” pull Mikes nature trick to hide the decline” .
      What is true is that in the US, this whole anthropogenic global warming has been debunked as this centuries scam and as such has been assigned to the dust bin of history, it just takes us here in Australia longer to catch up, were a little slow over here.
      As far as the Ozone layer thing is concerned, you missed the point entirely yet unsurprising because I am sure you classify a sudden closing of the ozone layer as “science” because we use marginally less CFC’s where the facts just don’t add up.
      Then again, don’t let facts get in the way of your so-called “science” which all reputable scientists around the world know is utter rubbish, and when I mean reputable, I mean those that don’t have a vested interest to keep their cushy jobs, those that don’t “fudge figures” and “hide declines”.

    • Ryan says:

      07:02am | 08/12/10

      A statement I find true every day is “Only a crisis real or perceived produces real change” - Milton Friedman, while I am not against the result of the change, I do object to being lied to.

    • Ryan says:

      07:07am | 08/12/10

      @Northern Steve: how about this, since you so-called climate “scientists” can agree that carbon dioxide causes warming, how about you agree then on a KPI of how many parts per million per year of carbon dioxide will be reduced in the atmosphere by the introduction of an Australian carbon tax. I mean based on your “science” then it would follow that there would have to be cooling (even though unfortunately for you guys this was shown to be utterly false through the divergence in global temperatures and carbon dioxide concentrations, but we would humor you anyway.) right?

    • Northern Steve says:

      08:23pm | 08/12/10

      Ryan,
      Are you able to show any evidence of NASA debunking climate change?  Or of reputable scientists doing so?  Who in the states has decided it’s all crap?  No scientific or news article I’ve read says that.  Any links I have seen to papers supposedly doing so can be easily demolished.

      You reckon well proven science developed over the last 150 years is crap, then proof on the table or move on Ryan.

      So, the ozone layer had a hole in it.  Ozone is destroyed by CFCs, we reduced the production of CFCs and the hole in the Ozone layer is getting smaller, but it’s all a big coincidence?  FFS.

      Your argument sounds a bit like a cancer patient refusing to take any treatment until the doctor can specify exactly what chance there is of dying and surviving, and then pointing out that its all crap anyway because he knows someone who smoked their whole life and never got cancer.

    • Northern Steve says:

      01:56am | 10/12/10

      Yes, Ryan, Dr Spencer says exactly what I’ve been saying - we don’t know exactly what the scale of consequnces for increasing CO2 will be yet, but there will be some.  He is stating a rise in 1oC before long.  This is a significant rise for many ecosystems.

      This graph on his site shows a steady trend increase in atmospheric temperatures over the last 30 years
      http://www.drroyspencer.com/latest-global-temperatures/

      Dr Spencer is also a believer of intelligent design over evolution, something not even in his field, so he is sort of muddying his own waters there a bit.  I also don’t know much about being objectivce.  A lot of the statements on his site are purely conjecture, which is fine for a start, but has no real data to back it up.  It offers possible avenues of research, but no rebuttal of any existing research.

      The people duped in your second example were not scientists, but beaurocrats.  They should not have been duped, but they are not scientists as you claim they are.

      If that’s the best you can do, you will not convince anyone.

    • NESLIHAN KUROSAWA says:

      08:14am | 04/12/10

      Hi there,

      “Gay marriages” are nothing new in some European countries, I do not see how it can dominate the Australian Federal Politics, right now.  Understandably, most people are strongly opposed to it.  However, this should be not the only issue on their agenda.  There are far more important things to deal with, somehow, this particular topic is receiving a lot of public attention and opinion. May be, it is just a way of diverting attention away from more important and serious issues concerning most Australian voters.

      Of course, it is receiving a lot of publicity, but just like you suggested it might create more of a “migraine’ for our Federal Government, if other more pressing issues are not dealt with.  To ease the pain for Ms Julia Gillard and the Australian voters, they should try to create an atmosphere of trust and respect of the Australian public, somehow lost along the way, once again.  This is not about election promises anymore, it is all about everyday Australians showing their discontent with the way things are, at this very present moment.  And rightly so!!!  Best regards to your editors.

      Reply

    • Lucas says:

      08:19am | 04/12/10

      With the Howard Government it seemed as though they just got on with Governing, with Gillard/Rudd Governments it’s all about them trying to convince us that their doing something.

      Reply

    • BobbySue says:

      02:22pm | 04/12/10

      Perhaps the media let them get on with governing?

    • Garry says:

      06:17am | 05/12/10

      Perhaps they do their job properly instead of leaving such a trail of destruction for the media to report. 3 years of waste, mismanagement and failure of delivery, leads to fodder for the media.

    • Michael says:

      06:49am | 05/12/10

      Yes boobysue, it is the media’s fault that labor have not planned or executed any of their policies competently. It is the media’s fault gillard cannot decide from week to week what she is doing. It is the media’s fault all our money is gone and our debt is growing day by day. It is the media’s fault labor are a rudderless ship who strive only to retain power. It is the media’s fault we have a government we did not elect who have sold us out to idiot self interested independents to wrest power against the wishes of the Australian people.

      BobbySue, isn’t it time for your tablets?

    • Bobbysue says:

      12:19pm | 05/12/10

      The people would prefer that the government govern and the media not govern.
      If Murdoch wants to govern, let him come back, apply for residence and become a politician.

    • Northern Steve says:

      07:54pm | 05/12/10

      The Howard (and Hawke/Keating) governnent generally spoke to people FIRST before announcing plans and legislating, hence little need to fit battles post-announcement.  The Rudd/Gillard governments on the other hand have made a reputation for announcing policy without consulting those whom it would affect, and then face an uphill battle trying to push it through without looking like they’re backpedalling.  For examples, see the Mining tax, frequent changes in Solar Panel rebates, Batts rebates, Health funding and the list goes on.

    • The Badger says:

      08:44pm | 06/12/10

      steve says
      Howard (and Hawke/Keating) governnent generally spoke to people FIRST before announcing plans
      Let’s see your list:
      Mining tax - negotiated with big mining companies and minerals council. - Check
      frequent changes in Solar Panel rebates - Let’s ask homeowners if they would like a bigger rebate (excellent suggestion steve - wonder what they would say)
      Batts rebates - see above
      Health funding - Negotiated agreement with COAG - Check
      any other examples steve?

    • Northern Steve says:

      12:08am | 08/12/10

      Badger, I’m sorry you are just plain wrong on this.
      The Mining Tax (Mark 1) was announced without any warning or without any negotiation.  They only negotiated the second version because they realised how royally they had stuffed it up.  Mark 2 was such a watered down version of Mark 1.
      Solar rebates have been through about 3 revisions since the election of the Rudd government.  On at least two occasions, the rebate has been reduced or scrapped temporarily at no notice.  Same goes for the Batt program.  Announced at 5pm on a Friday afternoon that it was to stop at midnight that night.  Consequences for the local industries being supported by those rebates?  Huge.  No ability to plan.  One Batt manufacturer had only just finished a $1mill investment in building a manufacturing plant in Australia to see the floor pulled out from under him.

      Health - Plan announced to huge fanfare, and then had to be renegotiated because the states said no.  WA still says no.  Vic now also says no and NSW will join them next year.

      Full of good intentions, but without the capacity to actually bring about what they plan.

    • nosthow says:

      08:36am | 04/12/10

      The State Labor governments going out of power Mark have been in for donkeys years - in NSW case nearly 15 years ! - Victoria 11 years ! So only the sad feeble minded Liberal supporters could draw any joy from the departure of these now tired old governments. Remember of course Howard himself went out after 11 years, tired and worn out. Of course as astute observers have already pointed out it augurs well for Labor Federally if these tired governments are gone by next election - whoever is leading the Opposition by then , and yes it could be Daffy Duck, wont be able to point to any problem Labor State governments. The big plus for Gillard at present is to have the super lightweight Tony Abbott as her opposite number and long may this time waster reign ! The champion of the budgie smuggler is Labors biggest asset and as long as he is leader with his no policies and no vision for Australia’s future Labor is set for government for many many years to come ! Hang in there Tones we are counting on it fella !

      Reply

    • dead to me says:

      11:20am | 04/12/10

      Abbott a lightweight? Well please explain why she didn’t demolish him at the last election. Abbott won seats and Gillard lost seats thus we had a hung government. Gillard is the lightweight, like Rudd ahe is all talk and zero substance. Gillard is the one with no vision, tell me one policy success she has had to date. BER? Home insulation? Health? Environment? She even cost us the World Cup bid with her bad acting.

    • TimB says:

      01:28pm | 04/12/10

      @ Dead to me

      Don’t bother. Logic, facts and reality have no place in the fantasy land that Nosthow inhabits.

    • Michael says:

      01:55pm | 04/12/10

      What a crock! Abbott is far from a lightweight - true, he’s not a polished marketing appliance like gillard (or the real joolia or who or whatever she is this week). We all complain that politicians are nothing more than a mouthpeice, blathering whatever drivell their spin doctors have fed them this week and pandering to the media. Finally we have a man who has a brain of his own, who speaks his (own) mind and now we complain that he’s not saying what some of us want to hear…

      Then we have jooolia. Fake, manufactured, plastic cheese joooolia. No policy. No idea. No morals. Plastic jooolia. She says what a huge team of professional bulls#1t artists (spin doctors) hand her to say and she stands for nothing. She does not even know WHAT she’s lying about much less when she’s lying!

      As for labor, state or federal, Abbott nailed it when he said labor are in it for themselves. labor do not care what they have to do to get power. Don’t care what lies, what deals or what (of ours) they have to trade away as long as they get power. labor have no standards, no policies and in the last 15 years have not planned anything for their state(s) or country. They have dedicated themselves to the pursuit of personal and political power, and to presenting a polished and marketable image to the media. Any policy is made to look good for the media (who cares the outcome), and is usually reactive and illplanned.

      Australia (en mass) is starting to wake up and demand substance from politicians and parties. labor has none whatever. joooolia has a probelm, and it’s only going to get worse.

    • TCB 24 X 7 says:

      03:38pm | 04/12/10

      FOOL..
      Did you forget that lightweight Abbott beat miss gillard and labor in the last election 73 to 72 seats.It was the 1 green (commie), 3 independants that put her in power.
      Mate, the Aust majority did not want labor and now realise the mistake made by voting green and for independants, as the Victorian state election shows.
      AUSTRALIA NEVER AGAIN WILL BE HELD TO RANSOM BY INDEPENDANTS.

    • Ryan says:

      08:39am | 05/12/10

      @nosthow: “The champion of the budgie smuggler” is actually Surf Life Saving Australia, are you attempting to make fun of Surf Lifesaving Australia? Is it fun to make fun of one of our proudest volunteer organisations or do you prefer the physical approach on our beaches?

    • Bruce says:

      09:26am | 05/12/10

      Nosthow: The only lightweight in federal politics is Joolya, oh I forget Krudd as well. Clearly demonstrated by the labor parties inability to implement anything successfully. If labor does not get ridd of the greens, ordinary australians will keep leaving the labor party. Labors future looks very bleak.

    • Ben81 says:

      11:58am | 05/12/10

      Ryan - Unfortunately because of childish boofheads like nosthow here he can’t wear the uniform and participate in that anymore.  Great isn’t it.

    • Sven Gali says:

      02:23pm | 05/12/10

      Didn’t you hear the results of the last two Federal elections, Bruce ? I’m sure John Howard and Tony Abbott would be happy to inform you.

    • Northern Steve says:

      07:57pm | 05/12/10

      Warning: Don’t feed the troll.

      It just encourages the bugger.

    • Marie says:

      10:27pm | 05/12/10

      Sven Gali: Unfortunately there are many dumb voters who like dumb labor governments. However, many are just waking up. Guess thats why we now have a minority hybrid leftist green government.

    • Ben C says:

      08:54am | 06/12/10

      nosthow, I take it you didn’t draw any joy out of the Howard government being voted out because they were in for donkeys years. If you did, then you are also a sad, feeble mind. Something about pots and kettles springs to mind.

      And Sven Gali, how exactly did Gillard come to power in the last election? Oh, that’s right, Labor held LESS seats than the Coalition after counting was complete. Big achievement that was after just one term in office. You sound just like Roxon on election night, talking up the spanking as a great result.

      Gotta love the Labor cheer squad. Blind optimism, and no calls for heads if things are failing. Any other organisation and the knives would be out by now.

    • Let them eat cake says:

      09:50am | 06/12/10

      Marie
      Fortunately there are less dumb voters who like dumb liberal governments. However, many are just waking up.
      Guess that’s why we don’t have a minority hybrid right wing conservative government.

    • Ryan says:

      10:30pm | 06/12/10

      @nosthow: what no reply, so you show your true colours and are a Surf Lifesaving hater. What other proud Australian volunteer institutions do you hate nosthow, do you hate the fireies too or is it just surf lifesaving because they wear “budgie smugglers”?

    • Levi says:

      08:46am | 04/12/10

      exactly. Labor is an outdated wreck of a party that panders to inner-city metro-sexuals. Isn’t it funny that people who live in cities (the most obliterated landscapes in terms of environmental damage that you will iver find) think they are doing something for the environment by voting for the greens. If you live in Sydney or Melbourne, where steel poles outnumber trees by 100/1, you seem like a bit of a hypocrite to me if you call yourself an environmentally concerned voter.

      Reply

    • AnthonyG says:

      08:46am | 04/12/10

      Dont worry about Julias worries. Its the worries of public that matter and they are escalating by the minute

      Reply

    • Michelle says:

      09:34am | 04/12/10

      I wish she would stop trying to reinvent herself every 5 mins!

      Reply

    • Rosie says:

      10:19am | 04/12/10

      Well said Mark and not because I am a Liberal voter but because it is the reality of the way Julia Gillard is going about trying to govern this country. It is crystal clear.

      She governs for her survial and has no choice but to pander to the Greens, for without them she is nothing! The GOM and the majority of Australians know this except the so called inner city modern thinking academics ( if there is such a thing ) seems to be paying her tributes for doing bugger all. Also for their survial the two Independents that installed her minority govt, will back her to the hilt because they have no choice but to have the Gillard Labor Govt run the full term.

      The GOM are more concerned because what the Labor Party used to stand for gets thrown out of the window. Grassroot Australians are missing out on the more important issues that concerns them because Gillard is trying to please everyone and anyone that will keep her in power.

      Climate change, Afganistan, Gay Marriage, yes all good things to be debated and so should be by any Govt. It is their job to do the right thing for the country and its people. It is the reforms that concerns the everyday lifestyle of all Australians that is needed!

      I am beginning to feel that our poor cricketers are in the same boat as the Gillard Labor Govt, being there trying to survive against the old enemy!

      “Gillard should do us a favour and stay well away from the cricket!”

      Reply

    • Levi says:

      11:01am | 04/12/10

      yet again nosthow you have shown yourself to be as one eyed as a cyclops. No matter how incompetent Labor is you seem to always find a way to justify their stupidity. Tony Abbott is a stuff up and has even admitted to lying, but he is a long way ahead in the integrity stakes than either Gillard or Swan could dream to be. They seem to have made it their duty to pathologically lie and swindle at every opportunity simply to retain their flimsy hold on federal power.

      What is happening at state level politics is indicative of the Labor institution as a whole. Intellectually weak, morally corrupt, and absolutely out of touch with the majority of Australia. Unfortunately it has taken a long time for the large portion of traditionally Labor voting middle-class to wake up to the shifting paradigm of Labor priorities - Please the greens and inner-city borderline communists - worry about normal people later.

      Australian politics will begin a major swing to the right, much like Europe has, in response to decades of fundamentally flawed, left-wing propagated, idealist governance. You had your turn to fix the world. FAIL.

      And i find it interesting that you seek to make fun of Tony Abbott for budgie smugglers, faith etc. Kevin Rudd regularly held media appearances outside his Anglican church on Sundays, and made no secret of his Christian faith. I can just imagine you in a pair of speedo’s Nosthow. You’d be no prime specimen i can imagine.

      Reply

    • Rosie says:

      12:14pm | 04/12/10

      Well said Levi!

      Nosthow, if you are not going to take heed from us fellow bloggers and you are a fair dickum Labor supporter, not just a Gillard lover you will be well advised to listen to what a former Labor PM in Paul Keating had to say.

      ABC Thursday Lateline - Mr Keating warned nothing could be gained by pandering to the Greens. The two major parties are the parties that make the changes and the Labor Party should never give in to the Greens, Factions or the Independents for that matter.

      It makes sense why the GOM are grumpy. The Gillard Labor minority Govt should just get on with governing the country the Labor way and leave it for the populace to decide their fate in the next Federal elections. Gillard had the “balls” to knife her Leader to become PM, she should also have the “balls” to face the consquences in how she governs.

      Nosthow, I don’t have to remind you that if the Gillard Govt is not re-elected, at least Gillard will go down in history as a Labor PM that stood by the Labor brand and not one that gave in to the Greens so that she could serve out her term.

    • BobbySue says:

      02:27pm | 04/12/10

      Are you a right wing christian conservative supporter?

    • Steve Putnam says:

      06:29pm | 05/12/10

      Dear Levi did you know that among his parliamentary colleagues Tony Abbott is known as the ‘weather vane’ because he changes his views according to which way the political winds blow.
      ‘The Punch’ isn’t the place for you to be fantasizing about Nosthow in speedos either.

    • Levi says:

      01:37pm | 06/12/10

      the weather vane?

      I thought that was the entirety of the ALP charter. Do what the polls tell you HAHA.

      You all know that’s the way they play things. Have fun with that

    • Mike says:

      11:14am | 04/12/10

      Categorising groups in this way is a formal fallacy. For example, people over 60 will also appear in other groups such as people who live in the suburbs.

      In a pluralist society, trying to please one category at the expense of another is almost always an egregious error.

      Labor has been making far too many such errors.

      Reply

    • nosthow says:

      11:46am | 04/12/10

      Maybe nosthow could offer his brilliant PR services to the Coalition and suggest some ways of actually appealing to the electorate rather than turning them off ? The Coalition will be like a deer in the headlights next year with many different items on Ms Gillards agenda and Abbott’s raggedy bunch with nothing at all to say on them - pick a topic folks ! Breathtaking it is folks. Abbott praised Gillard saying she has proven to be a ferocious opponent and that she has and 2011 will see her sprint streets ahead of Mr 1950’s Abbott. I mean Abbott was born 40 years too late - Sir Robert and his bunch with their White Australia Policy would have been right up Tony’s alley ! Oh yeah ! Oh yeah !

      Reply

    • Rosie says:

      02:03pm | 04/12/10

      “Whatever Nosthow” just keep Julia Gillard away from the cricket for it seems that everything she features in as our PM she “jinxs”

      - 2010 Federal election, the worst outcome in Australia’s political history because of the way the Labor party was installed without a clear mandate.

      - AFL grand final ended up having 2 finals with the 2nd one being a fizzle.

      - 50 overs series against Sri Lanka was lost.

      - FIFA World Cup bid, wasn’t just a loss for the promotion to develop further Australian soccer but $46 million of taxpayer’s money.

      Please give our cricketers some chance of winning back the Ashes! I am begining to feel for Ricky Ponting as he may miss out as a captain to win an Ashes series.

    • Jason says:

      04:18pm | 04/12/10

      I reckon the coalition is probably quite happy with the job you are doing now promoting the ALP’s “interests”.  Keep it up! smile

    • jf says:

      06:22pm | 04/12/10

      “Sir Robert and his bunch with their White Australia Policy”?

      Do you make this stuff up as you go mate?

      The White Australia Policy was Australia’s official and unofficial immigration policy from before federation.

      At Federation, Barton needed the support of the Labor Party to form a Government. Labor would only provide their support if he agreed to legislate to to limit immigration to whites only. Thus, the legislation that formalised the White Australia Policy was Labor’s first and most important task for our new Government.

      It then stayed in place for over sixty years with Labor’s greatest hero Curtin a committed supporter and Labor’s war time minister for immigration deporting non-white war refugees (classy act that).

      The first meaningful steps to remove the policy were taken by Menzies’ government mainly driven by Opperman as Immigration Minister.

      The only Labor Prime Minister to not be a fully fledged supporter of the policy was Whitlam. However even Whitlam did not remove the policy in its entirety. The legislation was finally repealed all together by the Fraser Government.

      So, introduced by Labor, passionately supported by the Unions, removed by the conservatives.

    • Steve Putnam says:

      06:35pm | 05/12/10

      Rosie, Ponting was captain of the 2006/7 side which won the ashes series 5-0! Further evidence that you just don’t know what you’re talking about.

    • Rosie says:

      12:03pm | 06/12/10

      Ooooooops Steve you are correct and am disappointed in myself for not remembering that 2006 -07 Ashes series.

      I was living abroad where cricket is not a national sport and was still reeling from the 2005 series when Ponting became the first Australian captain since Allan Border in 1986 - 87 to lose an Ashes series.

      Will you forgive me if I say that it is looking likely that Ponting will miss out again, this time being the 2010 - 11 series.

      As for not knowing what I am talking about I guess it is because Ponting is my least favourite captain as I have always felt that Shane Warne should have been given the captaincy ahead of Ponting.

    • Dissident says:

      12:33pm | 04/12/10

      Julia Gillard and the Labor party are all sizzle and no sausage, and the voters in the more populous States have begun to figure it out. WA has been giving them a thorough kicking the last couple federal polls - perhaps because they had just endured two terms of ‘Good News Geoff’s’ terrible government - and now the Vics and NSWs are figuring it out. It isn’t that their policies are inherently bad (though I disagree with most of them) - the problem is that they just can’t deliver.

      A solution to the asylum seeker problem is yet to arrive and it is exacerbated by the fact that the problem was well-and-truly fixed until this government weakened the border protection laws.

      The greatest moral challenge of our time turned out to be a fizzog and nothing is going to happen at Cancun in this current round of talks.

      The ‘no carbon tax under any government I lead’ didn’t last long. You know that a government is severely compromised when they cannot deliver on something that they promised NOT to do.

      Australians have a pretty good bull proverbial detector. We usually see through politicians lies straight away, but the problem was that 4 terms of the Howard government actually achieving what it set out to do made us complacent. We forgot to apply skepticism to their opportunistic schemes. Collectively we didn’t realise that Kevin Rudd was in no position to deliver his policies. Now that we have remembered the lessons of the past - we are applying the blowtorch to the rubbish that is presently served in the Federal sphere.

      NB - This is why the coalition isn’t doing much better either. We don’t have a beacon like Howard who was good for his word. Much as they left hated him, he was the mailman - he always delivered. Maybe someone will emerge from either party that has the courage of their commitments to do something they promise, but I am not holding my breath.

      Reply

    • Dajoha says:

      01:23pm | 04/12/10

      John Howard always said:

      “Don’t listen to what Labor say, watch what they do”

      Prophetic

      Reply

    • Sven Gali says:

      05:07pm | 04/12/10

      Prophetic indeed, Dajoha. Unfortunately for him, the good burghers of Bennelong were listening, and made history by making him, as Peter Costello observed here, one of only two Australian Prime Ministers to ever lose their seat. And as Costello also mentioned, the other won his back. Where’s Howard now ? Flogging a book.

    • dead to me says:

      06:01pm | 04/12/10

      John Howard - 11 yr PM, got things done
      K Rudd - Didn’t last the term, didn’t get things done, was a regular on Rove, cried on TV
      J Gillard - Puppet controlled by the Greens and Independents, hasn’t had any real success as deputy PM or PM, will be remember for being a back stabber, lacks the ability to lead

      Well looks like Howard is the best of the lot so far.

    • Dissident says:

      07:36pm | 04/12/10

      That is magnificently flawed logic there, Sven Gali.

      The Don got a duck in his last innings. Does that mean that he was a poor cricketer?

      Muhammad Ali is a physical wreck now. Does that mean that he wasn’t the greatest boxer of his generation?

      Don’t look at how he exited - look what he did when he was here.

      Even the left have to agree that Howard was the dominant politician of our generation.

    • Sven Gali says:

      11:41pm | 04/12/10

      The good burghers of Bennelong did look at what he did when he was here, Dissident, which is why, historically, they threw him out. As Peter Costello stated in the article cited above, in years to come, he will be the subject of a Trivial Pursuit question.

    • CynicalGoatWA says:

      04:51pm | 05/12/10

      Howard member for Bennelong for 33 years. Maxine McKew, the ALP “star candidate” given the flick after 3 years…..doesn’t that scream that the voters of Bennelong realised that they’d made a blue by handing the seat to the ALP???
      Give me a call when the next ALP prime minister lasts 11 years, or stays in Parliament for 33 years. Until then get back to stuffing those ALP how to vote cards into those envelopes Sven.

    • Tom says:

      05:52pm | 05/12/10

      Luv your work Sven. I heard that Howard once eat two jelly beans at his school tuck shop and didn’t pay.

    • Sven Gali says:

      06:01pm | 05/12/10

      Howard didn’t even contest the seat in 2010, CynicalGoatWA. Get back to me when he does.

    • CynicalGoatWA says:

      11:12am | 06/12/10

      Oh dear Sven….....where did I post that Howard contested the seat in 2010? ..........correct….....nowhere.
      My point is, for you simpleton, that the voters realised they’d been dudded by the ALP and were more than happy to go back to the right wing of Australian politics where they’d been looked after for more than 3 decades by their previous member who was a conservative and eventually became a long serving PM.
      Comprehende ???
      My offer stands. Give me a bell when Joolya or Bowen or Bourke has been PM for 11 years…..on second thoughts look at the positives. You can save your dime and put it towards your children paying back the debt that these geniuses are racking up. Or maybe put it towards buying a copy of “Lazarus Rising’ so that you can understand the thought processes of a real leader.

    • Sven Gali says:

      11:25am | 06/12/10

      Thanks, Tom. Sounds exciting.

    • Sven Gali says:

      09:33pm | 06/12/10

      Try telling that to Peter Costello, CynicalGoatWA. As you would have read in his article cited above, and I quote ...

      “The title of his book is designed to hide the obvious truth. This Lazarus is not rising. This Lazarus was terminated by the voters of Bennelong in 2007.”

    • XLabor Voter 4ever 2303/2291 says:

      02:00pm | 04/12/10

      Stephen Smith is the only Logical candidate for PM as he commands Respect and he looks and talks like a Leader should. As for Ms gillard,she appears as a nagging,vindictive,spiteful and Bitter person who Evades answers in parliment and prefers to Reply with personal attacks CONSISTENTLY on mr Abbott and his team. For ms gillard to State that “she was focused (focused??) on the job of governing”- excuse me does governing mean Pandering to the Greens and Independents to survive??
      Jooliar you are much to full of Spin ,you are like a commercial whereas noone really believes and listens to your mundane voice telling us porkies. Vote One Stephen Smith ,he is a respectable,well dressed person with presentation,Speaks Correct Grammar-not like the other embarassing person. That is all I wanna say as I am Gonna go now.smile meand my mates ain’t ever voting Labor while she is there in cohorts with the greens and Independents.

      Reply

    • Colin J Ely says:

      02:48pm | 04/12/10

      Nosthow me old mate, let me make a prediction for the next Federal election,
      Tony will still be Coalition leader but Joolya will not be leading the ALP and the two Independent members from NSW will both retire, thus avoiding the embarrassment of being defeated by the Nationals candidate. Mr Brandt will be a one term wonder and Mr Wilkie had better put in a sterling performance and note that this was not enough to save Mr Ingram, the Independent Member for East Gippsland. Time will tell me old china, time will tell! wink

      Reply

    • Democrat says:

      03:30pm | 04/12/10

      Anybody who wants to know which way the political breeze is blowing should have been looking at Question Time over these past weeks and watching Gillard demolish everything the Coalition attempted top throw at her.  More immediately they should have watched her demolition of The Abbott in the speech she made on the Telstra Separation Bill last Monday.  The reaction of the Tory backbench told the story. All that wishful coalition thinking of being in government in the near term is now shown to be just that - wishful thinking and The Abbott’s shortcomings are manifesting themselves more and more.  Gillard this week also put the Greens on notice that 2011 will be the year that a price will be placed on carbon.  If it doesn’t happen it will be because they and the conservatives prevented it.  Game on.

      Reply

    • NicoleG says:

      04:27pm | 04/12/10

      What a rant. Demolished everything? No. She just can’t answer any question put to her and goes off on some stupid tangent filled with venom. Take you’re blinkers off.

    • Levi says:

      05:04pm | 04/12/10

      Gillard only knows how to personally attack people. If you consider her responses in question time to be an example of an exemplary leader displaying good governance and clear thought processes, i would seriously question your mental health.

      Her and Swanny are as bad as each other now. All shouting and badmouthing, no substance.

    • BobM says:

      05:07pm | 04/12/10

      Only in your dreams Democrat, only in your dreams…..

    • Linda says:

      07:02am | 05/12/10

      Is not answering questions and showing what a vile tongue she has “demolishing everything the Coalition throw at her” ? If she could answer the questions thrown at her and defend the arguement then YES. But that is not what’s on display by her performance’s in QT. Australians watching QT want to hear the answers to the Coalitions questions! Not a performance of ducking, weaving and vile disgusting insults.

    • Bennelopy says:

      12:24pm | 05/12/10

      Linda
      Perhaps if the opposition framed their questions properly, they would get the answers they want.
      They are only interested in sound bites and look like the fools they are.

    • Tom says:

      07:12am | 06/12/10

      I am more worried about her “demolition” of Australia.

    • Levi says:

      03:50pm | 04/12/10

      If the White Australia policy remained in force people things like the cronulla riots wouldnt have happened. Lebanese and Vietnamese criminal gangs would not have emerged, and my kids could freely celebrate christmas without offending the PC and minority enforcement brigades (All members of the Labor or Greens parties).

      Nosthow, you mindlessly support the left side of politics because you vacantly assume constant change is a good things.

      The left side of politics has destroyed the social fabric of Australia with its policies, while people like you sit back and say how “enriching” and “vibrant” our culture is now because we have a bunch of back alley ethnic resturants in our cities (half of which are fronts for criminal enterprises anyway).

      I am only 22 and even i recognise that Australia was a better and more pleasant place to live when i was 10 than it is proving to be now.

      But hey nosthow, enjoy your multicultural dystopia while you can, until they start rounding up the by then minority anglo’s and shipping them off to prison camps in the islamic caliphate of Australia

      Reply

    • Rich says:

      11:19pm | 04/12/10

      It’s also interesting how the left also assume that minorities are shining beacons of humanity and that WE are the scumbags of the Earth, when in reality they are usually more racist and if they could would import substantially more of them in changing the country into a miniature version of their country.

      I don’t want to live in China nor do I want to live in Africa or India! I feel like a foreigner in George street in Sydney CBD.

      The funny thing is that the left think that they’re creating diversity when in reality they are destroying it by creating a bland world mono-culture. Well I for one do not wish our culture nor the Chinese or Indian cultures to be destroyed. When I go to these places I wish to experience their culture not mine. This is not racism.

      I am also sick of the bitching about Christians in this country and how you can insult them and no one cares. If you do this to minorities and in particular Islam you can expect all kinds of hell. I am not Christian, I don;t believe in god but for god sake its going too far.

    • The Badger says:

      06:29pm | 06/12/10

      Rich, you’ve got it all wrong.
      The left doesn’t assume that minorities are shining beacons of humanity, but we do want to treat them humanely.
      On the other hand we don’t think you racists are the scumbags of the earth, - we know you are.

    • Lucy says:

      04:04pm | 04/12/10

      Labor is likely doomed.

      The issue for the Labor Party and this country, is that the Inner City suburbs now determine the Green and therefore by extension, the Labor agenda. 

      The Inner City consists of a highly educated, articulate and vocal population that is smugly confident of its own worth. It is also a population that likes to hold to a peculiar 19th century British (as opposed to Germanic) attitude, in that it revels in flaunting its own technical illiteracy. The thing is, in the modern world, technical and industrial literacy pretty much puts one into the same category as the country bumpkin of a hundred years ago.

      County bumpkins cannot run governments. In this age of technology nor can the technically illiterate. Yet it is the Inner City new age bumpkins, the proudly technical and industrial illiterates, that seek to control policy for the entire country on matters such as, energy, food production, water, manufacturing, so called climate change, communication, health, transport and anything else that impinges upon the real world.

      Allowing New Age Bumpkins (NAB’s) to drive the government of the county is transparently absurd and dangerous. It has failed. It has failed in the eyes of the people. It has failed Labor. The party trick of the Greens rolling out some tame or hopelessly deluded academic who have come to believe that the back patting magic circle of peer review is in any way a legitimate substitute for demonstrable hard results, has lost its flavor, if not its pathos.  As a consequence Labor’s support has collapsed across the mainstream electorate. 

      There is no doubt the Labor party is a venerable organization that has done great things for this country.There is is also no doubt that the Labor Party has royally cocked the place up from time to time to the extent that it has taken a generation to get the place on track. 

      The point is however, that unless the Labor Party becomes again a party for the people of this county, and not just the puppet of the Greens and the Inner City Bumpkins, it is finished. 

      That would be a bad thing for all Australians.

      Reply

    • Jane says:

      05:08pm | 04/12/10

      Lucy, you have no idea what you’re talking about. Firstly, our inner cities have a great diversity of people, from many backgrounds, including some of the poorest people in the country. I don’t see how they can be ‘elites’.

      Secondly, people who believe in progressive politics are all around the country, not just in the cities. Just have a look, for example, at the greens vote in electorates like Cunningham (which last time I checked is outside of Sydney).

      Stereotypes around inner city elites is just as unhelpful to the national debate as stereotypes on bogans in the western suburbs.

      Reply

    • Smee says:

      09:56pm | 04/12/10

      Jane - You have no idea what you are talking about either!

    • Democrat says:

      10:53pm | 04/12/10

      None so blind as they who cannot see.  The blinkered are those who still see themselves as born to rule and who do not / cannot dispute one fact.  The Abbott is on a hiding to nothing.

      Reply

    • dinkidi says:

      03:15pm | 05/12/10

      Maybe but he will make a great prime minister on the way.

    • Tom says:

      08:37am | 06/12/10

      @ Democrat, the term “born to rule” goes back 400 years in UK. I thought you dopes were supposed to be “moving forward”?

    • Rich says:

      11:34pm | 04/12/10

      This is the problem with democracy, you end up with a clueless ruling class(career politicians) pandering to a clueless population.

      Nothing ever gets done.

      Why people support democracy knowing that most of the population do not have much understanding of politics, economics, energy and foreign affairs is beyond me.

      Western civilization used to be strong, pursue new frontiers and was far more respectable. Now it is a pathetic, limp-wristed, decadent society that worships weakness. We are becoming the laughing stock of the world and will soon be of little significance.

      We can’t even deal with a bunch of Somali pirates because it would upset the overly emotional left wing and result in a stern talking to by the UN.

      Grow some testicles, get a real bike with gears and brakes, put down your iMac and stop driving your Prius before you condemn us to being the bitch of the 3rd world.

      Reply

    • stephen says:

      12:46am | 05/12/10

      The ‘new frontiers’ that ‘Western Civilization’ was pursuing was, is, and always will be, a technological one, which is brought about by smart, risk-taking men and women who can function precisely because of a stable political system.
      Our personalities and character are dictated more by our machines, that by our Poets.
      (This ain’t bad, and if its true, it’s our own damn fault.)

      By the way, your attitude reeks of fear of the bitch of the third world, and fear, we know, is limp-wristed.
      Welcome to your nightmare.

      Reply

    • Rich says:

      04:18pm | 05/12/10

      I would find it an undesirable outcome rather than a fear, despite your attempts to be profound.

    • stephen says:

      01:16pm | 06/12/10

      Mate…I’m always profound.

    • Holly says:

      07:59am | 05/12/10

      The usual clique members (paid to comment I suspect) trying to create discontent where there is none really, and trying to convince themselves what poor shape the country is in and how much better off we would be if Tony was leader.  They simply can’t get over the fact that he isn’t. “Howard just got on with governing”  maybe you think that because you didn’t notice anything happening except major personal tax cuts if you were earning enough, and tax cuts if you were in business and welfare handouts for those who did not need them.  Certainly there was no vision for the future and public infrastructure was run down in a criminal way.

      Same sex marriage is such a non issue really - blown out of all proportion because it suits the media and the coalition (not withstanding that almost a majority of them support it) to use the issue to demonise the greens.  I suppose what it does highlight is that the National party is a bunch of lily livered no hopers.  Why are they even in coalition when in fact they are as socialist as the greens and probably more aligned with the greens on many economic issues.  “Conservative” as the coalition is now, is all about standing still, preserving the status quo.  At least the Labor party and Julia Gillard have some vision and some guts.

      Reply

    • The Badger says:

      12:32pm | 05/12/10

      Stop making sense,
      You’ll annoy the conservatives

    • Ryan says:

      02:50pm | 05/12/10

      @Holly: “At least the Labor party and Julia Gillard have some vision and some guts.” and this vision you speak of has translated into WHAT prey tell, a massive debt that my kids will have to pay off because of their incompetent and wasteful management of everything they touch?

      What is true about this so-called vision is that it no matter how incompetent and wasteful it is, it all looks rosy until they run out of our money to spend, this Labor government has even taken to selling off our farm land to China.

      “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people’s money. ” - Margaret Thatcher

      When will the money dry up I wonder, then the reality hits and you ungrateful, dropkick, left wing mob come crying for someone to fix this mess, and so the cycle begins again.

    • nosthow says:

      08:38am | 05/12/10

      What an hilarious start to nosthows Sunday watching Tony Abbott stumble, backtrack and umm and err his way through his interview on The Insiders. Honestly folks I still have tears in my eyes from laughing. Tony’s problem is the old one of how to dress mutton up as lamb. In other words how to portray himself as a winner when as we all know viewers hes a loser ! How long can he pull the wool over the eyes of the Opposition? Well not much longer I think. No policies and no vision for Australia’s future is not a winning recipe. Questions are starting to be asked such as “Tony if we are all such big winners as you say we are how come we are sitting on the losers bench?” Yeah fella answer that one ! Gillard in 2011 will run right over the top of Abbott and by mid year he will be history the polls having taken him out. Will Mr 13% Turnbull get another go ? How low can I go says Malcolm - 9% ! The polls toll for thee Tony and Malcolm - champion limbo dancers of the nutter Right !

      Reply

    • Harris says:

      11:58am | 05/12/10

      I have to ask, what the hell are you smoking, drinking, snorting or other? Your posts are becoming more deranged by the hour.

    • The Badger says:

      12:30pm | 05/12/10

      Abbott seems to have gotten the message that his “Stop the XXXX’ mantra wasn’t getting through.
      Let’s hope over the holidays Dr. NO gets the message that being a wrecker isn’t going well and he actually needs to come up with some policies.

    • nosthow says:

      03:16pm | 05/12/10

      @Harris - fabulous to have you as such an avid fan of nosthows jottings Harris !

    • jf says:

      04:14pm | 05/12/10

      Despite patently revealing yourself as an ALP lemming with zero political knowledge or conviction you just keep on punching nosthow. Good show.

      Ironic though that you paraphrase the great John Donne. However, to extent the paraphrase and to put it into it’s appropriate context, if the polls are tolling for the coalition, then nosthow, they are polling for thee.

    • Eric says:

      04:35pm | 05/12/10

      @ Nosthow: What program were you watching - very different to the one I saw.  I agree with Harris - you are certainly one strange individual.

    • Rosie says:

      04:37pm | 05/12/10

      nosthow, the hardest thing for me is to ignore you as much as I would love to. My concern are the “vulnerable” that may care to take in the “diatribe” that you constantly throw at us.

      Harris, I reckon nosthow is doing all three at the same time in order for him to find the pleasure to write the “diatribe.”

      Smart folks know that his statements typify an exaggerated rant not meant to be taken seriously so we must not allow him to get away with luring the “vulnerable” We also know that his intentions are to aggrandize, in other words increase the fragile power, rank of Julia Gillard and the minority Labor Federal Govt she leads! Simply it is a cover up for the facts that we keep reading and hearing in the media & blogosphere.

      I would understand his ranting if Tony Abbott’‘s Liberal Party was the Govt. Like Julia Gillard he is behaving like an Opposition trying to make Tony Abbott accountable for their incompetency to make decisions and deliver.

      Sad so very sad that we Australians have to miss out because the Gillard Labor Govt has once again not only lost its way but purpose & SOUL.

    • nosthow says:

      05:39pm | 05/12/10

      @Eric - hey Eric did you see the commentary straight after the abysmal Abbott interview where the panel pointed out Abbott is a man with no policies or no vision - just like I have been telling everybody ! hahah Then the Talking Pictures segment with the BIG budgie popping out of Tonys smugglers - talk about pee myself laughing enough already !

    • Against the Man says:

      07:29pm | 05/12/10

      Well lets talk about Gillard, zero policy success and drowning fast in the political landscape. Next year after the NSW state elections when the Libs take over it will only be a matter of months before it is game over for Miss Gillard. Few more months missy before it is all over politically for you.

    • Against the Man says:

      07:29pm | 05/12/10

      Well lets talk about Gillard, zero policy success and drowning fast in the political landscape. Next year after the NSW state elections when the Libs take over it will only be a matter of months before it is game over for Miss Gillard. Few more months missy before it is all over politically for you.

    • Sven Gali says:

      09:26am | 07/12/10

      What is keeping you, AtM ? First you said the Prime Minister wasn’t going to last a week, then it was a month, and then until Xmas. Now you’re telling us we have to wait until months after the NSW election next year. Any tips for the Melbourne Cup ?

    • chungo Mung says:

      08:40am | 05/12/10

      yes Rich, and unlike the unintelligent masses, and the foolish minded lefties, YOU understand all the issues precisely, and YOU know the right answers to everything. Hooray for the strong yet all wise, benevolent future dictator Rich, he can lead us with wisdom and compassion and an iron fist! now that is the sort of leadership we really need.

      Reply

    • Rich says:

      04:14pm | 05/12/10

      No, I don’t know all the solutions which is exactly why I don’t want people who are less intelligent than my average intelligence to vote.

      People, like children, need leadership and boundaries or they devour themselves.

    • Luke says:

      09:00am | 05/12/10

      Time for Gillard to stop naval gazing and start governing for the country instead of governing for herself and the Labor Party.

      Reply

    • Neil says:

      12:37pm | 05/12/10

      It’s time for the media to stop making news and start reporting it
      instead of looking after the business interests of it’s proprietors.

    • Andrew says:

      08:11am | 06/12/10

      So its The Australian’s fault that Labor is toxic and stuffs up everything it tries to do?

    • Neil says:

      09:17am | 06/12/10

      You said it andrew, I didn’t.
      personally I would have mentioned the stable, not one of it’s horses.

      “Labor is toxic and stuffs up everything it tries to do”
      bet I now how you formed this opinion.

    • Andrew says:

      10:26am | 06/12/10

      Still waiting for you to name labor successes. can you list some for me? Or are we just blaming everyone else for their failure?

      Perhaps you’re just angry about the scrutiny. Should we just stay quiet about our governments problems. It a conspiracy!!!

      Remember when Kevin promised so much. Used the media (Sunrise etc) to lift his profile and get elected? You live by the sword…

    • Neil says:

      11:26am | 06/12/10

      Andrew
      NBN
      Home Insulation
      Education revolution
      Health system reform

      chew on those for a while, then come back with some newsco opinion.
      you’re a sheep and the Sun king is your shepherd.

    • Ben C says:

      01:42pm | 06/12/10

      Neil:

      NBN - the whole process was stuffed up, debatable to see if anything can be salvaged.

      Home Insulation - 4 deaths, minister in charge was aware of implementation flaws yet was overruled by the Prime Minister. Not enough due diligence done by any level of Labor government to ensure that those doing the installations were properly qualified and adhered to safety measures.

      Education revolution - Too many revolutions at the end of the bill for everyone’s liking, and half of the projects are useless. I mean, why the hell would you build a COLA when the work is to be done indoors? What use is a school hall when it can only fit half the school population in it? When schools are asking for resources, they don’t mean the ones to come from our mining boom.

      Health system reform - in tatters, even the Labor Premiers are suspicious about it, and reluctant to sign up.

      Chew on that!

    • Andrew says:

      03:10pm | 06/12/10

      Neil, hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha (takes breath) hahahahahahahahahaha.

      NBN: farce, waste of cash. Gov’t to scared to reveal business case.
      Home Insulation: even the gov’t has admitted it was an epic fail. Why else appoint a minister to fix it?
      BER: $16b to build $8b worth of infrastructure. A Labor success story???
      Health System Reform: LOL.

      An announcement is not an achievement.

      Only the most delusional of labor supporters could possibly count your list as achievements.
      Most analysts, including many in the Labor party itself, consider you list to be a list of failures. But hey when in doubt attack and insult the opposite view. Nobody hates like the left.

      Sorry, you have no credibility.

    • Neil says:

      06:32pm | 06/12/10

      Excellent ben and andrew
      You have served your master well.

      good sheep - The sun king would be proud.

    • marley says:

      01:21pm | 05/12/10

      All I know is that I get an enormous sense of drift from this government - it drifted in Kev07’s day and it’s drifting again now.  I do wish Julia would stop fighting the election over and over again, and start governing the country. 

      There’s a whole lot of work to be done on hospitals, water management, infrastructure, indigenous betterment - some things are beyond the capacity of a minority government to deal with, but there are many issues where progress could be made.  For god’s sake, work on them instead of wasting all this time and energy fighting the last (or next) election. The voters are going to judge Julia and her mates on their achievements, and there’d better be some or I don’t like the ALP’s chances.

      Reply

    • Neil says:

      08:28am | 06/12/10

      Marley
      Sorry to hear that you are not enjoying groundhog day.
      Perhaps when you get back to the real world you will notice how things are changing in health, MDB, and infrastructure.
      All this in spite of being a minority government with an opposition committed to sending Australia back to the polls by any obstruction possible.


      hospitals, water management, infrastructure, indigenous betterment

    • Andrew says:

      10:34am | 06/12/10

      Neil you are living in lalaland.

      Health - GP super clinics with no doctors. W.A. not signed up, Vic reviewing their position.

      Water management: WTF. Policy failure, massive rural protests, floods everywhere but still buying water back, no new dams because of greens policies. farce.

      Infrastructure??? What, the NBN. Uncosted, no take up, built with borrowed money. Government to scared to publicise the business case on the largest spend in our nations history.

      Indigenous betterment?? Examples please.

      Don’t let facts get in your way Neil. Back to stuffing envelopes in Sussex st.

      But still, lets blame the opposition.

    • Neil says:

      11:28am | 06/12/10

      Andrew
      I can see where you get your information.
      You should read more widely and form your own opinions instead of being spoon fed what to think by the sun king.

    • hellena says:

      02:04pm | 06/12/10

      At first I thought you were being sarcastic Neil; and rightly so, given your examples of Labor “successes” - reminds me of the old saw, “with friends like these, who need enemies”; but your following posts showed me that you were actually SERIOUS! Didn’t know whether to laugh or cry; er, pray can you give us more specific examples of Labor success, rather than saying, “MBD” AFAIK, the MDB Plan is just in draft form, and is being watered down daily; the NBN still has to go through Parliament, and Indigenous betterment, er…what Indigenous betterment? I’m sure there are many Indigenous folk who will disagree with you…probably quite passionately.

    • BillfromBendigo says:

      01:23pm | 05/12/10

      I humbly apologise for failing to finish reading the entire piece, Mark.  You see, after reading the opening remarks, “The shock defeat of the Brumby state government”, I couldn’t!  Couldn’t see, that is.  I was blinded by the tears of laughter.  I have only just now recovered sufficiently to post this missive.  That is a “killer” first stanza!

      Reply

    • Rob says:

      04:07pm | 05/12/10

      The Abbott’s performance on Insiders truly was pathetic.  Robb for Leader I say. At least he is honest about the need for Work Choices.  Tony just equivocates and proclaims it dead!  Well at least until this morning when he admitted it could be disinterred if enough pressure is put on him to exhume it.  Now that is leadership. LOL

      Reply

    • Sven Gali says:

      06:42pm | 05/12/10

      I couldn’t believe I was hearing that either, Rob. He truly is the gift that just keeps giving. For anyone whom might have missed it, and understandably might not believe what they hear about it, here’s the relevant excerpt from the transcript.

      BARRIE CASSIDY: On industrial relations, more broadly, Andrew Robb says that business is getting restless again but you don’t seem to detect that?

      TONY ABBOTT: Well my door hasn’t been knocked down in the rush of people saying, “You’ve got to change Labor’s system”. As I have said so many times, let me repeat it, Barrie, WorkChoices is dead, buried and cremated and as far as the Coalition is concerned it always will be.

      But it’s now up to business and others to come to us if they think there are problems with the operation and implementation of Labor’s laws. If people think there is a case for change they need to make that case for change. As far as the Coalition is concerned, our approach will be pragmatic and problem-solving, it won’t be ideological.

      BARRIE CASSIDY: So if they make the case for change, then you will change the laws?

      TONY ABBOTT: Well let’s see them make the case for change.

      BARRIE CASSIDY: Yes, but it follows that if they do make the case you will change the laws.

      TONY ABBOTT: If there are big problems, obviously we will address them, but people have to make the case for change, people have to come to us and say, “these are the problems that are being caused by Labor’s laws”.

      BARRIE CASSIDY: The laws aren’t cremated at all.

      TONY ABBOTT: WorkChoices is dead, buried and cremated.

      BARRIE CASSIDY: But you are open to making changes to the laws?

      TONY ABBOTT: If there are very serious problems and people can make the case for change, obviously we’re not deaf, dumb and blind here, but they’ve got to make the case for change.

      In a sense, it is up to them to make the case for change, to bring us the problems.

    • Mike says:

      05:30am | 06/12/10

      I know what is pathetic and that is you Labor/Union supporters who still keep trying to pin workchoices to Abbott after 3 years. It may have worked to fight the Howard Government, but those days are long gone and you guys need to “move forward”. By the way were you sitting on the couch watching the same Insiders as nostnow? Abbott certainly looks like he got under both your skins, which means he had a good performance on Insiders I would say.

    • Luke says:

      09:27am | 06/12/10

      Thankyou Sven for the transcript, Abbott makes complete sense. No wonder you and Rob are so pissed off with him on Insiders. lol
      You guys trying to resurrect workchoices (Cassidy included,  who is ex press secretary for a “Labor Prime Minister”) are showing your sad desperation to get something on Abbott. He’s been cruizn along fine and Gillard is all over the shop like a mad dogs breakfast! Good luck with your workchoices agenda.

    • Sven Gali says:

      09:48pm | 06/12/10

      My pleasure, Luke. And on the contrary, I’m delighted with Tony Abbott, who truly is the gift that just keeps giving. Above all, I hope he continues “cruizn along fine”, in Opposition.

    • Holly says:

      05:24pm | 05/12/10

      Nosthow - have to agree Tony Abbott was totally pathetic and bereft of ideas on Insiders.  I am still waiting for an interviewer to really scrutinise him but really I suppose it would be a waste of time since he damns himself with his own words every single time he opens his mouth.  No wonder Robb et al are getting increasingly impatient.  Huge fissure now in the coalition.  No wonder they had to pull a stunt like the last sitting day of parliament to try to convince themselves (and obviously unquestioning sycophants on this page) that Labor is in disarray. How much did their little farce cost the country.  Several hundred thousand dollars so they could bluster about legislation which they didn’t actually oppose.  What the?

      Reply

    • Lurch of Perth says:

      11:51pm | 05/12/10

      After the decision of Fair work Australia that there is 6 Public Holidays over this years festive period and not the normal 3, I wonder how long it will be before those that are rejoicing in the unthought of windfall realise that eventually all long weekends are doomed when the day in question falls on a saturday or sunday thanks to this ruling!

      Reply

    • There's othe ways. says:

      06:56am | 06/12/10

      Global Warming, Climate change what ever you call it was the “REASON” Rudd was dumped. Still going forward with a crock like carbon tax is going to make her suffer i nthe polls. Its time she was spanked.
      Despite saying carbon tax was of the menu, she’s now saying its “needed”.
      This despite America not accepting it as “their” economy would suffer. As the United Nations is involved, is it another matter like free trade, for you not for us type of situation?
      Carbon tax is subject to al lsorts of rorts and must be dumped. Lets be honest, its a anti polution redevolpment tax. Carbon has very little to do with it. I’m sure soem of these twits are on drugs when they try to deceive the general public. The drug is called money.

      Reply

    • Andrew says:

      08:27am | 06/12/10

      Julia Gillard as p.m. is not working. Anyone can see it. Embarassingly, she refuses to answer staight questions put to her. She just comes across as a mixture of spiteful, overly agressive, dishonest and abusive. When I compare her with Hillary Clinton (both from the same side of politics) she suffers even more.

      She appears bereft of ideas. Her strategy appears to be to attack Tony Abbott at every opportunity. I suggest this will please hard line labor faithful like nosthow but for the rest of the electorate it will merely reinforce the image of her as a shrill harpie.

      Gillard is definitely in trouble. She acts like she is in opposition which is where I believe she will be shortly.

      The anti Abbott rants on this website by rusted on labor types on proves how desperate they are to move the conversation away from any scrutiny of the Rudd/Gillard/labor failures.

      No carbon tax???

      What’s labors latest failure, the My School website. Who was in charge of that? Who’s great achievement was that?

      Shhh…. look over there… its Tony Abbott .... in budgie smugglers ..... he’s evil!

      Labor .... yesterdays news.

      Reply

    • Neil says:

      11:31am | 06/12/10

      Actually, you might have a word with the opposition and teach them how to phrase a question properly.
      You might get the answers you seek.
      In the meantime, just trust the sun king.

    • Andrew says:

      03:19pm | 06/12/10

      Neil, you need to seek some professional help. Are you hoping the “Sun King” thing will take off? Bit lame mate.

      As for phrasing questions correctly. Just ask yourself this simple question, if it was Labor asking the questions and the Coalition providing the type of replies coming out of Labor what would you be saying then?

      I feel sorry for you.

    • Neil says:

      06:50pm | 06/12/10

      Depends on how the question is phrased.
      Take this exchange on the NBN for example

      Mr ABBOTT My question is to the Prime Minister. Given the substantial price increases that will accompany the introduction of the National Broadband Network and the Prime Minister’s inability so far in question time to justify or explain these price increases, again I ask: why won’t she release the NBN business case that she has and is hiding before she expects the parliament to vote on this $43 billion project?
      Ms GILLARD - To the Leader of the Opposition I would say: just because you make something up does not make it true. Your contention about pricing is wrong.

      Now do you see what Tony did there? He made something up. If the opposition makes things up and attaches a question to the made up bit, would you honestly expect an answer?

      I’m surprised you have never heard of the sun king, I’ll put it down to your youth and inexperience.

      google “sun king” and murdoch

      I don’t feel sorry for you,

    • JJ says:

      12:59pm | 06/12/10

      “If you stand for nothing, you’ll fall for anything”.

      Sums up this government well.

      Reply

    • KT says:

      03:55pm | 09/12/10

      Just one question… If the Liberals are so much better, and the Labor party is so pathetic, then why in heavens name couldn’t Abbott win the election, especially with the majority of media on his side?  I mean, if he was any good as a leader, it would stand to reason that with ALL the Rudd/Gillard bungling, it should have been a landslide victory for the Libs.  Shouldn’t it???  Just a question, happy to hear all good answers…

      Reply

    • Ryan says:

      08:32pm | 09/12/10

      The majority of media on his side, you are having a laugh aren’t you? Hell there is even an article saying cheers to Kerry O’Brien that bastion of objectivity and definitely not a Labor supporter (that was sarcasm in case you missed it).
      Oh and in case you missed it also, even with all the dirty tricks and slandering of everything from surf lifesaving to Tony’s character, he still managed to pull off a hung parliment, just a shame that our voters didn’t get the message that “a vote for green is a vote for labor” and most certainly they didn’t know that a vote for Tony Windsor or Rob Oakeshott is a vote for Labor. MANY lessons were learnt this time around, next time they will know how not to be taken for suckers.

    • Sven Gali says:

      12:51am | 10/12/10

      Funny ‘bout that isn’t it, KT ?

      Swing to the Coalition - 1.5%. That’s not a typo.

      Swing to the Greens - 4%.

      Reply
 
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