Signs in the window of an adventure tours store on Scotchmer Street in North Fitzroy urge passersby to do two things: climb Mount Everest, and put a member of the Greens in the House of Representatives.

Greens Melbourne candidate Adam Bandt at a store in North Fitzroy which had just put up posters supporting his campaign

In most electorates these tasks would be of roughly equal difficulty. But not here in the federal seat of Melbourne, where Greens candidate Adam Bandt is the firm bookies’ favourite to win on August 21. With a well-organised campaign and an established electorate profile, Bandt’s challenge looks less like climbing a mountain and more like a sprint down Swanston Street.

“Make history Melbourne” is the campaign slogan, with the general buzz being about making Bandt the first Green elected to the House of Representatives – which would be truly historic, except that it rests on the following qualifying technicality. He would only be the first Green to win in a general election.

The Greens have had an MP in the lower house before: Michael Organ won the NSW seat of Cunningham in a 2002 by-election – and he has noticed a lot of the commentary on Bandt’s campaign overlooks his breakthrough.

“He won’t be the first,” Organ said last week, adding he had noted the oversight of his success had even been reported on the ABC.

Organ, who now works at the University of Wollongong, is reconciled to this, though. “I was elected at a by-election. I made history in Cunningham - and I hope Adam Bandt makes history by being the first member elected in a general election,” he said.

To win, Bandt needs a strong first preference vote - Organ won 22% of the primary vote when he won Cunningham in 2002. The Greens primary vote can be overstated in the polls, and with students and middle-class inner-city folk traditionally making up the core of the Green vote, the question is whether Bandt can lock in a broad enough cross-section of voters to get him over the line.

He needs - and isn’t getting - some people like Liam Clancy, an IT worker who has voted Green before but intends to vote Labor this time.

Switching from Green to Labor: Liam Clancy

The Punch found this classic Melbourne character in a black jacket and hat, enjoying a hand-rolled cigarette on a break from work in the city. “I’m a bit torn,” he said. “I would love to vote for the Greens but it would be a really bad move in a seat where your vote might make a difference.”

Why not Greens?

“If they were to win that might mean Tony Abbott would be in charge of the country. I will certainly be voting for the Greens in the Senate,” he said.

So, you’re voting very tactically then?

“F*** yeah.”

Or there’s people like Nathan (no surname provided), a city bike courier. With Bandt running hard on improving Melbourne’s transport system you’d think he would be plugged into the campaign, but despite not having much enthusiasm for politics in the first place, what’s motivating him is something else entirely.

Not interested, not voting Green: Nathan the courier

“I have voted Greens in the past,” Nathan said, “but they don’t really seem to get anywhere. I normally vote for them because I don’t like the others… I think some Australians are a bit narrow-minded when it comes to change. I know a lot do prefer a man in power. I will vote for the ALP on the grounds that it’s a woman.”

This is something that the Labor campaign will be trying to use to stem the flow of the ALP’s progressive Melbourne supporters to the Greens. The replacement candidate for Tanner is Cath Bowtell, a former ACTU official, who was preselected early last month. When her candidacy was announced, the party said her preselection “gives the voters of Melbourne a chance to elect the first female member for Melbourne and elect the first female prime minister”. One of her slogans is “a progressive voice for Melbourne” and she has declared herself in favour of same-sex marriage.

Not much nuance in that positioning, is there? The Greens are also fighting a “Gillard factor”, with Newspoll showing Labor support in Victoria rising two points after the state’s adopted prodigal political daughter took the leadership from Kevin Rudd.

With the buzz around this campaign you might expect the student hangouts on Swanston Street to be teeming with Green supporters. But in what could be an alarming sign for Bandt The Punch had trouble finding any planning on voting Green in the seat of Melbourne – at all – after spending an hour talking to uni students in the area.

Natalie McDonald, Josh McLatchie and Andrew Craig

Three typical students I spoke to were Andrew Craig, Josh McLatchie and Natalie McDonald, found tucking into a parma after a hard day at the library. Andrew and Josh vote in the next door electorate of LaTrobe, and were both planning to vote Liberal on August 22. Natalie had considered voting Green but decided not to. “They campaign for teen rights,” she said. “I read something about it in the paper and disagreed with that – and I also realised they preferenced their votes to Labor.”

So why all the buzz around Bandt? He has several reasons to be hopeful. He ran in 2007 and finished second, after preferences, to Lindsay Tanner. Given Tanner has held the seat since 1993 and has been a high-profile minister in the Labor government, his decision to quit this year is an opportunity for the Greens to make up the 4.7 per cent margin needed to win.

The Liberal Party – whose candidate is small businessman Simon Olsen – has also decided to direct its preferences to the Greens. On top of this, Bandt’s campaign has been running hard for much longer than either of the two major party candidates. He says it is still gathering momentum: one night last week, 90 new people showed up to volunteer for his campaign.

In an interview with The Punch last week, Bandt spelled out where he thought the necessary support could come from to help him win.

“Because we have been campaigning for a while now, I’m noticing there are two groups of people,” Bandt said. “One group have been paying attention to the political situation for a while now and have made their decision to vote Green. The motivation has been climate change and the treatment of asylum seekers, and the word they use when talking about how these issues are treated is ‘disappointed’.

“There’s another group of people who are undecided. The retirement of Lindsay Tanner means these people are looking seriously at the Greens.”

Bandt, who previously worked as a partner at Slater and Gordon, Gillard’s old industrial law firm, understands some voters will be nervous about voting for him, especially as his opponents will attack him as being outside the mainstream.

“People are entitled to ask about our spending plans,” he said. “We are not sticking our hand up for the committee of the local tuck shop here. It’s not about being a protest movement that is able to call for all sorts of spending without looking at where that money is going to come from.”

Bandt says he would use his position in the lower house to put climate change and the treatment of refugees back on the national agenda, and work on a plan for transitioning Australia to a renewable energy economy. He points to research that claims the city could be running on renewable energy within a decade and also wants to fight for a high-speed rail link between Sydney and Melbourne.

He would also work with other Greens to introduce legislation to recognise same-sex marriages. This is something the party has tried before and failed to get a vote on, but if Bandt wins his seat and with the party likely to have the balance of power in the Senate after the election, the national debate would be set to reignite.

With the election looking like it could come down to a handful of seats, Bandt knows Labor will throw everything at him, including an advertising blitz. “What we’ve got that I think the Labor party doesn’t,” he said, “is people.”

Given my conversations with Melbourne voters I was somewhat sceptical that the Greens had the hundreds of people necessary to run a successful campaign and staff polling booths on election day – until Bandt’s campaign launch that night.

It was at The Tote, a legendary live music venue in Collingwood. The venue was close to full with at least 200 people who had turned up on a cold and wet Wednesday night. They weren’t just the unwashed hoodie-wearers other caricatures typically associated with Green activism; among them were disaffected Labor voters unhappy at the direction of the government. These are the people Bandt is counting on.

Getting involved: Irene Morgan and Michael Moran

Typical of these was Michael Moran, a restaurant worker who signed up to get involved because he was “getting a bit fed up with Julia Gillard”.

“She thinks that by being strong on refugees people will come along with her,” Moran said.

Also there was Irene Morgan, who was equally disapproving of the Prime Minister. “It might be a bit harsh to judge so early on,” she said, “but I don’t like the way they have moved to the right on asylum seekers. I don’t like the way they compromised on the mining tax.”

Bad Bob Hawke impression, anyone? Adam Bandt at his campaign launch.

When Bandt spoke he noted that the Greens were now the bookies’ favourites to win the seat. If he is elected, it will be a minor party breaking Labor’s 106-year grip on the seat.

It’s perhaps telling of the Greens’ progress that the only quote from a famous political figure on the night wasn’t from Che or Al Gore, but Bandt’s twist on Bob Hawke’s cheerleader-in-chief line after the 1983 America’s Cup win. Bandt finished his speech saying: “Any boss who sacks a Greens supporter for not turning up tomorrow is a bum”.

It might not be quite as historic as Australia II’s win, but the sprint down Swanston Street is on and the conditions are set for a close race.

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108 comments

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    • Pelle says:

      06:32am | 09/08/10

      I find it inconceivable that there could be voters naive enough to vote for these economic vandals.

    • Al says:

      07:29am | 09/08/10

      Unchecked economic growth is more like ‘vandalism’ than the sustainable model the Greens propose… But don’t let that get in the way of a good scare-tactic, eh?

    • The Badger says:

      08:06am | 09/08/10

      You are talking about the Conservatives right?

    • Bruce says:

      10:09am | 09/08/10

      Better off voting for the ALP or liberal party. Do not vote “Green”. You are wasting a vote on narrow focused party.

    • Carl Palmer says:

      10:29am | 09/08/10

      @ Pelle says – you are spot on. Reading a few of their policies was enough to scare anyone away.

      I think Graham Richardson got it right a few weeks back on QandA when he told Christine Miln that “The problem with the greens is you have one policy. Unless everyone absolutely agrees with us, nothing happens.”  Richo got it right, gee they are a dopy lot.

    • JasonCR says:

      05:09pm | 09/08/10

      @Pelle,
                It’s easy to vote greens when you have no mortgage, still live at home and don’t understand the issues with the cost of living.  I’m all for the environment too, but won’t vote for these political vandals.  God help us when they are ruling the senate from August 21.

    • Robert Smissen, rural SA, God's own country says:

      06:40pm | 09/08/10

      I can’t decide which is worse, Labor winning or Greens having the balance of power

    • Paul says:

      07:07am | 09/08/10

      @Pelle.  I find it inconceivable to vote for Tony Abbot, who thinks homosexuals are “threatening and against the right order”, and whose views on women and reproduction are appalling.  I find it inconceivable to vote for Labor, with their internet filtering policy, spin and blunders.  I find it inconceivable to vote for both, because of their demonisation of asylum seekers.  There’ll be no economics if we don’t have a healthy environment, but if you want to vote for consumption and pollution because that’s all that matters to you, be my guest.  Are you sure your surname is not Pell?

    • Old Clive says:

      07:52am | 09/08/10

      I find it inconceivable, that any sane person could vote for the greens, but then again , I have found out in life that people who think they are intelligent when they are young are much more intelligent when they have passed the 50 mark and reflect on all the mistakes that they have made when they were younger and uneducated by life. Education at higher levels is really a dumbing down of thinking power by plagarising other people weird ideas, there Paul is the basis of the greens policy. Why man they don’t even know the difference between men and women, how stupid can you get.

    • Peter says:

      12:01pm | 09/08/10

      @ Paul, what did Abbott say against women that was so appalling? Is there a specific quote you can give us? The Tony Abbott “anti-women” thing is based on no truth what so ever and is just a throw away line used by the Anti-Abbott lobby…

    • Mitzi says:

      12:16pm | 09/08/10

      I have been involved with the theatre industry all my life.  I made a lot of wonderful friends through the years who are gay men. My husband confessed to me that after all this time he still feels uncomfortable around them, even though he likes them & gets on well with them. This is human nature & not hatred or bigotry. It’s all about mother nature wanting to ensure the survival of the species. My husband struggles with his uncomfortable feelings, just as Abbott is doing. I applaud Abbott for speaking out like this because what he said has caused a lot of open debate in our extended group of friends. We have had some amazing conversations over some glasses of very good wine,  which have been beneficial to my husbands understanding of what gay people suffer in the form of bigotry & alienation. I applaud Tony Abbott for his comments because it is making us all ponder this question.

    • Vote Counter says:

      07:12am | 09/08/10

      If the Greens do win in Melbourne, it will be because of Liberal preferences. A similar situation exists in the electorates of Sydney (Tanya Plibersek) and Grayndler (Anthony Albanese). Both seats are in the “progressive” and now very affluent inner west (Balmain, Annandale and Newtown) where the Greens and Liberal vote are both raising rapidly.

      The two parties property related interests are very similar, and the Liberals are giving their preferences to the Greens in both Sydney seats.

      The idea that Greens and Labor are somehow “allies”, or that “a Greens vote is a Labor vote in disguise” is wrong.

    • shabangabang says:

      08:26am | 09/08/10

      Agree with your assessment of the Greens prospects in Grayndler. I live in that electorate and I must say from who I have been speaking to they are gaining quite a bit of ground on Labor. 76% voted either Labor or Greens in 2007, would think that percentage will increase this time around
      Bit premature to say the Libs are rising rapidly. They are coming off a very small base, so any rise is disproportionately large. I think their vote will actually decrease this election, though.

    • Vote Counter says:

      08:45am | 09/08/10

      The Libs are “running dead” in Grayndler, shabanabang, with a 19-year old uni student who appears not to be campaigning. Ther do have a small base but Grayndler is getting richer and hence there are more Liberal voters.
      In Sydney the Libs have a stronger candidate. In one booth in Balmain, the Libs already have a majority, The same is gradually happening in Annandale, and soon too – Newtown. The Greens base is getting older and more conservative. Both are wealthy and professional.

    • Jeremy says:

      07:16am | 09/08/10

      The “I can’t vote Green” voters don’t make any sense.

      “If they were to win that might mean Tony Abbott would be in charge of the country. I will certainly be voting for the Greens in the Senate,” he said.

      What? How would that work? How would the Greens winning Melbourne put Tony Abbott in the Lodge? What is the scenario this guy envisages in which his Green vote somehow helps Tony Abbott? Does this guy seriously think the Greens would form a Coalition with the Liberals and Nationals? Seriously?

      Voting “tactically”! Somebody explain our electoral system to this bloke.

      And Nathan: ““I have voted Greens in the past but they don’t really seem to get anywhere.”

      You’re not voting for them because they haven’t won office yet? So… you’re never going to vote for anyone but the existing duopoly? Even though you “don’t like the others”? The only way the Greens can get in a position to change things is if people vote for them. If you’re giving up without even doing that… how do you expect anything to ever change?

      It’s the people who refuse to vote for anyone but the big old parties regardless of what they do who are to blame FOR the big old parties being the way they are.

      As for a female leader - the Greens have a much higher proportion of female MPs than the other parties. More importantly, unlike Labor and the Liberals, they do actually stand up for issues directly affecting women.

      Finally:

      Natalie had considered voting Green but decided not to. “They campaign for teen rights,” she said. “I read something about it in the paper and disagreed with that – and I also realised they preferenced their votes to Labor.”

      Natalie doesn’t want to preference Labor? Who would she like them to preference? She does realise she can preference anyone she damn well likes, doesn’t she?

      I don’t know what she’s talking about regarding “teen rights” as she doesn’t explain.

      If these people were saying they wouldn’t vote Green because another party represented them better - say, they didn’t give a damn about climate change, they wanted to treat refugees more harshly, they wanted a party that pandered to right-wing extremists like the so-called “Australian Christian Lobby”, or they didn’t care about public services… well, then vote for Liberal/Labor, by all means.

      But these ill-informed reasons for being scared off, reasons that don’t make even the slightest amount of sense - it’s very depressing.

    • Der says:

      08:19am | 09/08/10

      It would assist Abbott because it would be one less seat in the House of Reps that Labor has - hence one seat further away from forming Government.

    • Jeremy says:

      08:42am | 09/08/10

      Also one seat that the Liberals don’t have, one seat further from THEM forming Government.

      Progressive voters should be thrilled if the ALP had to form a Coalition with the Greens to form government. We’d finally be bloody listened to.

    • Phil says:

      09:00am | 09/08/10

      Your piece should have had written and spoken by Jeremy (insert last name) on behalf of the Australian Greens.

      I have no issue with your piece by the way, even if I dont agree with your choices.

    • AdamC says:

      10:12am | 09/08/10

      Jeremy, I think you should keep in mind that the Greens are marketing themselves as a ‘Senate vote’ in this election, like the Democrats used to. I saw some ads last night where that was the core of the pitch - vote Greens in the Senate. What about voting for the Greens in general? You can’t really blame disengaged punters for not seeing the Greens as serious contenders when the Greens own ads present them as merely a balance-of-power spoiler party.

      And why do Greens voters constanty refer to the Liberals and ALP as the ‘old’ or ‘big’ parties or, in your case, both? It makes you sound silly and immature.

    • Kirk says:

      08:45am | 10/08/10

      I don’t think these students eating ‘parma’ are very representative of typical student population.  They are smiling and most likely wearing shoes.  surely the giveaway is that Natalie doesn’t want to vote Green because they preference Labor over Liberal - these are potential young Liberals.

    • thatmosis says:

      07:49am | 09/08/10

      Unfortunately a vote for the Greens is a vote for the destruction of all we hold dear in our country. They want death taxes reintroduced plus higher taxes across the board so that all you have worked for all your life will go to the Government and not your children. They want to close most of the East Coast to fishing, a multi billion dollar industry and the enjoyment of millions of people not to mention the loss of livelihood for thousands in the industry and the therefore importation of inferior sea food from overseas to keep up with demand.  They want to allow as many illegal immigrants into Australia as can get a boat here and use Tax Payers money to support them. They want to close down Coal Powered Power Stations and make everybody use non existant alternative power thereby taking Australia back into the 18th century. They want to kill the cash cow of mining because it upsets their sensibilities. Can we really afford to have these clowns elected with these kinds of policies that they will insist upon having made law if they hold the balance of power. Think carefully people and have a good look at what they are proposing before you do Australia and yourselves irreparable harm.

    • Luke C says:

      08:16am | 09/08/10

      haha outrageous views much?

      you realise that they’re destroying the ecosystems and running out of fish right? we’re also running out of farmland (because of mining). we can’t eat coal and we can’t eat a dead barrier reef either.

      we have some of the best alternative energy scientists/engineers educated here in this country, but they all head over to Europe once they graduate to build wind farms and solar arrays over there.

      we need to start an alternative energy program here and convert our carbon pollution into clean efficient energy. the technology and great minds are here and the sooner we do this the sooner we can continue to produce energy that won’t contribute to global warming.

      but before we do any of this, we need to change our lifestyle to be more conservative. yes this may be uncomfortable for some, but it’s bloody necessary.

      energy efficient lighting and heating, 3min showers and compulsory rainwater tanks. MUCH tougher limits on water/electricity use from industry. otherwise we’re gunna gradually run out of water, energy, food and both our economy and our country will struggle to survive.

      it’s bloody common sense.

    • Macca says:

      08:47am | 09/08/10

      @Luke C, “we’re also running out of farmland (because of mining)”

      What a ridiculous statement. The geological neccesities for mining Copper or Iron Ore are considerably different from that required to herd Chickens, drove Pigs or grow Beer.

      Luke, I’m not sure you appreciate how ridiculously efficient burning Coal is. Anyone who has ever had a Coal fireplace in their home or has been out to the country for a Winters Weekend may be fortunate enough to have experienced the increadible heat Coal produces. Compare that to the standard electric or gas heater in you get an idea of how much energy burning Coal can produce. My point here is not to glorify carbon emissions but rather state that we are a long long way from providing an alternative base power to replace Coal.

      As for tougher limits on Water / Electricity use for Industry, what would you have them do? Turn off the plants when they exceed their limits? “Its bloody common sense” ... good one, That’ll do wonders for Jobs and the Economy.

      As for Efficient Lighting and rainwater tanks, these are fairly compulsary in new homes.

    • The Badger says:

      09:00am | 09/08/10

      @macca - “fairly compulsary”? They either are or they’re not macca, which is it?
      Very predictable from a conservative - mining and industry at any cost. Why give a damn about the environmnet if I’m not going to be here when it all goes to shit. Since I can’t blame this on labor,  I’ll just deny the rape of the environment and hope it all goes away.
      .

    • Macon Paine says:

      09:34am | 09/08/10

      @ Luke C

      “you realise that they’re destroying the ecosystems and running out of fish right?”
      Debatable but i’ll grant you that for the sake of the argument.

      “we’re also running out of farmland (because of mining).”
      This is the first time i’ve ever heard this claim. Mining is causing us to run out of farming land? Care to source this claim?

      “we have some of the best alternative energy scientists/engineers educated here in this country, but they all head over to Europe once they graduate to build wind farms and solar arrays over there.”
      Yeah, how are those wind farms and solar arrays going by the way?

      “we need to start an alternative energy program here and convert our carbon pollution into clean efficient energy. the technology and great minds are here and the sooner we do this the sooner we can continue to produce energy that won’t contribute to global warming.”
      Fine and dandy. Who’s going to pay for it? Solar/wind etc power are a pipe dream. Maybe in 50 years time (but hopefully less) they will be viable. We have a temporary solution available now called nuclear power. Do you have any objection to the use of nuclear power as an interim measure to help cut emissions? If yes why?

      “but before we do any of this, we need to change our lifestyle to be more conservative. yes this may be uncomfortable for some, but it’s bloody necessary.”
      Ok and what have you done to save the planet? Change your own lifestyle before you start telling others what to do.

      “energy efficient lighting and heating, 3min showers and compulsory rainwater tanks. MUCH tougher limits on water/electricity use from industry.”
      Energy efficient lighting and heating sounds fine to me but telling people to have 3min showers and (operative word) compulsary rain tanks is a joke. What if I dont want it let alone have to use and maintain the rain tank? Some bureacracy is going to use my tax dollars and force me to get one even though I have no intention of using it? Making things compulsary is not the way to do this.

      “otherwise we’re gunna gradually run out of water, energy, food and both our economy and our country will struggle to survive.”
      I trust you can source these claims.

      “it’s bloody common sense.”
      Some of it is but some of it is bloody ridiculous fear mongering.

    • Dom says:

      09:41am | 09/08/10

      @Macca,
      “The geological neccesities for mining Copper or Iron Ore are considerably different from that required to herd Chickens, drove Pigs or grow Beer.”

      Coal seams in Margaret River, the Hunter Valley and Wandoan suggest to me the geological neccesities are considerably similar.  Things like the requirement of space, air, water - mere inconsequentials I’m sure.  Where would you suggest we move agricultural production?  Toorak?  Cooloongatta?  The Simpson Desert?  What happens if the Artesian Basin is contaminated by coal mining?  Move more food production south to the Murray Darling?  Oh that’s right….......

    • iansand says:

      09:48am | 09/08/10

      Macca - “@Luke C, “we’re also running out of farmland (because of mining)”

      What a ridiculous statement. The geological neccesities for mining Copper or Iron Ore are considerably different from that required to herd Chickens, drove Pigs or grow Beer.”

      Here’s a photo I prepared earlier - http://www.flickr.com/photos/iansand/2893636763/  Farmland v Mine in the Lower Hunter.  Just off the Putty Road.  Who do you think is winning?

    • Duff says:

      09:56am | 09/08/10

      The current Greens are extremists.  An environmental Taliban.  Any so-called ‘green’ party which would choose to have no ETS at all rather than one which they are not 100% happy with is clearly fundamentalist in nature and as such incapable of running anything, let alone a modern government.  Their policies have escaped scrutiny and unfortunately many of the people who would vote for them do not understand how dangerous these guys really would be if ever elected to power.

    • Macca says:

      10:13am | 09/08/10

      @The Badger, It depends on your local council, I know mine does require it, and I suspect regional / Country councils it is standard practice, although in the inner suburbs where land is tighter it may not be so feasible.

      @Dom, et. al. At no point did I mention Coal mining. However, I will ignore your strawman attacks and ask if you have a solution to these problems.

    • Ripa says:

      10:42am | 09/08/10

      @The Badger,

      Rainwater tanks/harvesting, is compulsory in Sydney, I have to install them in every *new* dwelling, and typically for a new dwelling the tank is 2000L, However, im not convinced how efficient they are, by the time you calculate the manufacturing cost, and supply, your up for;

      $1500 for the tank
      $1500 for the pump and water management system
      $1000 for extra plumping
      $500 for the extra wiring
      $200 for the filter, first flush and misc gear (needs replacing every 6-12 months)
      approx figures..

      The manufacturer of the products i use state, daily power consumption for a pump and control system supplying water to toilets in a 3 person dwelling are equivalent to the operation of a reverse cycle 2.4kw Air conditioner for 3 mins a day, sounds good to me yeah? So everyone now has to operate this Rainwater type system, so we’ve added an energy cost haven’t we?, and have in essence not reduced our energy consumption. *shrug*

      In Sydney councils also want the rainwater to be used for washing clothes, and there needs to be at least one outside tap.
      So once you take into consideration all the extra work and material needed, the constant power consumption of the rainwater harvesting electronics, are we really that far ahead.? To me, a more intelligent system would be to have the tanks roof mounted have them gravity fed, with sensors running off solar panels, but i dont make the laws, and to get something like that approved?!, id have to jump through so many hoops its just not practical.

      and @ Luke C, Carbon is pollution? please wake up stop believing in fairy tales, CO2 is food for plants, without CO2 we die. i also didnt know we can currently eat the barrier reef, i imagine you would have some hefty dental bills.

    • John A Neve says:

      12:15pm | 09/08/10

      Duffy,
      How can you possibly make such a comment? The Greens have never been in power, we all accept that most pollies bend the truth. The fact is, you have no idea how the Greens would perform.

      Against the Greens unknown abilities, we have Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum with proven poor track records. How can you vote for either of the majors based on their records?

    • Duff says:

      02:45pm | 09/08/10

      @John A Neeve - no idea of how they would perform?  Sorry, but the Greens showed everyone what they are capable of when they chose to side with Abbott to oppose the ETS.  I realised at that moment that they are not interested in getting anything done at all, but merely to act as spoilers.  Now, not only do we not have an ETS (and likely will never get one) we are also on the verge of electing a man who is against pretty much everything the Greens say they stand for!  Nice one Greens!

    • Kirk says:

      08:50am | 10/08/10

      @Macon Paine: “Yeah, how are those wind farms and solar arrays going by the way?”

      Solar and wind are going pretty well for the Europeans and Americans at the moment.  But we missed the boat on that one, so should probably just stick to what we know and can get the $$$ from - coal!

    • Gregg says:

      07:51am | 09/08/10

      Jeremy, they’ve obviously thought it through a bit further than you and then there’ll be those who cannot really think the climate change issue through far enough.
      Fpr instance, how much good will it do Australia and the climate if restrictions apply here that force a manufacturer to China or India where with less efficiency you have a greater carbon output per unit manufactured?

      It is happening anyway because of production costs and so Australia is more and more reliant on our resources.
      What will the Greens do?, cripple our resources industries as well!

    • dale says:

      08:19am | 09/08/10

      Um have you heard of a little thing called tarrifs, this “free trade” thing that has been introduced has sent all of australias manufacturing overseas.

      If Australia can embrace and lead the world in green tech then we have a huge world market!

      Australia could be self sufficient not requireing any imports

    • Jeremy says:

      08:21am | 09/08/10

      Gregg, their reasons weren’t “I don’t believe we should do anything about climate change”. They weren’t on policy, they were on not understanding the electoral system.

    • Macca says:

      08:55am | 09/08/10

      @Dale, No Nation will ever become Self-sufficient. Not a single appliance in your home will be manufactured in Australia and the last car to be Manufactured in Australia was the Mitsubishi 380, and we didn’t buy any of them. Even the Holden Commodore’s pieces are built overseas and simply assembled in Australia.

      Whilst I’m all for diversifying our skill set, Australians should concentrate on what we are good at, Digging stuff up and creating innebriating liquids

    • Adam Diver says:

      10:23am | 09/08/10

      @ Dale, thankyou for re-inforcing the greens economic stupidity for the readers of the punch.

      We would place tariffs on manufacturing so to be competitive.

      We would then become world leaders in green tech (based on what exactly) and then every other country in the world would just let us dominate thier own green tech industries. No tariffs would be applied.

      Tariffs work both ways, if we are going to place a competitive advantage on products we import, then sure as hell so will everyone else thus wiping out any competitive advatage we may have with green tech.

    • The Badger says:

      10:33am | 09/08/10

      At last macca, something I can agree with you on.

    • biff says:

      07:53am | 09/08/10

      Wouldn’t climbing Mt Everest be anti-Green? Think of the danger posed to wildlife clinging to life in that fragile, pristine environment on Mt Everest.  Mr Bandt sounds like an environmental vandal.

    • Greens Not the Answer says:

      08:16am | 09/08/10

      The Greens stopped hydro-electric development in a State of plentiful water resources. Tasmania should have the most affordable clean electric power in the world - but the Greens stopped it.  They should be reminded, because they certainly choose not to remind anyone themselves.
      Tasmania buys dirty coal powered energy as a result of Bob Brown inspired Green self promotion.
      The Greens suggested lowering the voting age to 16.  Most psychologists would agree that adolescence is not a fair and reasonable age to be politically targeting impressionable children.  At 16, our kids are regarded as too young to drive, let alone consider with maturity the wider issues confronting governments.
      After Tasmania’s Opposition won the previous popular vote in Tasmania, Graham Richardson (the usual Labor backroom heavy) suggested that care-taker Premier Bartlett form an alliance with the Greens in order to retain government (at any cost).  This outraged Tasmanians who now have to wait three years to undo the loathed Labor-Green alliance forced onto them.  Tasmanians felt disgusted that prior to the election, Labor promised hands on heart there would be NO such DEAL. 
      Now they see two Greens taking their place with the government and if anyone thinks Greens are holier than thou, Tasmanians would clarify that these two rarely question the government on its expenditure wastage, or very much else.  For so-called “environmentalists”, they seem to shut their eyes to the Premier’s constant sky-polluting travel. There’s been rorts in Tasmania gone without Green attention. 
      The Labor government when confirmed as “winners”, designated a personal car for each of Labor’s new best friend Cabinet Greens, as well as a chauffeur driven vehicle for each.  The two Greens had spoken of their personal “relationship”, so if the cars offered were meant for one domestic circumstance, Tasmanians saw for themselves that Labor-Greens are about as sensible on resource management as they were on clean hydro-electric energy.
      And on Green extremism - if it moves - tax it.
      Tasmania remained at a grinding halt, because no-one wants to invest in a State where Green influence rules.

    • Tarzan says:

      08:34am | 09/08/10

      The Greens model a lot of their policies from the United Nations. And the problem is the Greens what Global Governance which ends our sovereignty. A Democratically elected World leader to Govern Australia. Well take a look at the majority of people in the World, you want them to be making decisions for us? Open the borders, create public housing for all new comers. Can you image the Kaos? Wages decline, because you will be undercut by new immigrants, ghettos. We will look like Calcutta on a clear day.

    • The Badger says:

      09:04am | 09/08/10

      Tarzan
      “And the problem is the Greens what Global Governance which ends our sovereignty”
      If this is the problem, can you please try explaining it again in a language we all can understand? I haven’t got a clue what the problem is. And correspondingly don’t see a solution to the problem only you can understand.

    • Brad Price says:

      08:38am | 09/08/10

      Voting for the Greens is a cop out. It’s nothing more than a protest vote from
      society’s fringe dwelling non-conformists.

      They’re the ones who believe that we have all been “lost”, waiting for their omniscience to be unvailed to an “unknowing” world.

    • John A Neve says:

      09:47am | 09/08/10

      Brad,
      If you are correct? That a vote for the Greens is a protest vote, I can only hope a lot of people vote Green. As both Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum need a good kick in the bum. Neither of the majors deserves to be re-elected as neither has put forward any good reason to re-elect them.
      Just about any thing in my view would be better than Tweedle Dee or Tweedle Dum.

    • Brad Price says:

      10:42am | 09/08/10

      @John A Neve.

      My comment “They’re the ones who believe that we have all been “lost”, waiting for their omniscience to be unvailed to an “unknowing” world” is vindicated right here with your reply.

    • The Badger says:

      11:59am | 09/08/10

      @ Brad
      I think you seriously underestimate how many “fringe dwellers” there actually are. 
      I assume by “non-conformists” you mean those that don’t want to adopt the conservative right wing views of Howard, Abbott and the hayseeds. Fortunately, there are alternatives to that maddening crowd.

    • John A Neve says:

      12:05pm | 09/08/10

      Brad,

      I have never suggested “that we have all been lost”, far from it. I just feel it needs other than Tweedle Dee or Tweedle Dum to save us.
      As stated previously, neither of them shows any plan for our future and their track records are at best dismal.

    • Adam Diver says:

      08:39am | 09/08/10

      “I will vote for the ALP on the grounds that it’s a woman” - That man should lose his right to vote immediately.

    • Green Lover says:

      09:07am | 09/08/10

      I am voting for the greens on the grounds that I like the colour green. Can I vote Adam Diver?

    • Evan Findlay says:

      09:29am | 09/08/10

      Adam Diver,
      The typical opinion from the holier than thou mentality of the conservative voter. Let me see, if you had your way they would only be able to vote if they vote for the .......Liberal party.  People vote for a party/person for whatever reasons. You might not agree with it but that is their right. I for one would probably not agree with your reasoning for your voting intentions, but that is your right and entitlement. Get over yourself!

    • Duff says:

      10:07am | 09/08/10

      Evan Findley, I think you should think more about what Adam Diver is actually saying.  i don’t think his point is that anyone should actually lose their right to vote.  his point is that to vote for any party on the basis of their leader’s sex is absurd.  Flip it around: imagine if the man in question had said that he will vote Liberal on the basis that Tony Abbott is a man?  What would your reaction to Adam’s comment be then?

    • Pelle says:

      10:12am | 09/08/10

      I totally agree. Anyone who votes on the basis of gender and not policy, should not be allowed to vote.

    • Adam DIver says:

      10:28am | 09/08/10

      Thanks Duff, was surprised to being criticised for this particular observation.

      I am actually voting for Abbott because he has big ears to put the record straight, Evan.

    • Daniel says:

      09:10am | 09/08/10

      I’m really hoping Bandt gets up. Ill be going down to Melbourne in the next week to assist with his campaign in the hope to get him elected. This is a great time for people that are sick of the major parties. They can make a difference.

    • nosthow says:

      09:10am | 09/08/10

      Labor now back in front in the polls with Greens preferences. Less than 2 weeks to go and Abbotts geriatrics will be consigned to the political dustbin of history - where they deserve to be ! Good riddance Tony !

    • JasonCR says:

      06:38pm | 09/08/10

      Correct nosthow , with the Greens preferences.  I’d much rather be in opposition forever than to rely on the preferences of political vandals.  Looks like a marriage made in heaven to me.
      Also, not sure why you think Labor are over the line due to a newspoll this week.  Last week, it had the Coalition in front yet you still said Labor would win.  You’re not making much sense old pal.

    • iansand says:

      09:42am | 09/08/10

      It is time (it has been time for a couple of elections) to have a good look at what the Greens advocate.  When they are close to having a real influence on policy you have to look at their policies.

      A couple of Saturdays ago the Sydney Morning Herald published an article on the Greens http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/the-watermelon-party-20100730-10zsb.html . In a breakout box we were given an outline of how a no growth economy would work (for want of a better word).  It is at the bottom of the linked article.  Not Greens policy (I couldn’t find any explanation of their vision of a zero growth economy on their web site http://greens.org.au/ )  but enlightening.  Some choice titbits:

      •  Scientists would calculate sustainable levels of resource consumption, economists would establish systems to meet those levels.
      •  Single-use products would disappear, as would short-lived tech products. Public transport is increased, air travel is heavily restricted.
      •  Those on lower incomes would be subsidised to compensate for the higher cost of products and services. The range of incomes would be shrunk to “reward contributions” rather than “multiplying privilege”.
      •  The credit/debt system is phased out; consumers and investors must save.

      Watermelon people indeed.  The absence of anything on their site is probably a good idea.  They wouldn’t want people discovering what a vote for the Greens really means.  Pol Pot meets Lenin with Mao as the matchmaker.  I remember an early version of their site which had a policy of forced rustication, although not in those words.  It was more like everyone having a sustainable holiday in the country working on farms.  The only problems happened if you wanted to go home.

    • Hamish says:

      11:16am | 09/08/10

      I virtually never agree with you Ian, but you are spot on here. The Greens are a joke. These are their policies in a nutshell:
      1. Transition to a low-carbon economy while simultaneously increasing social welfare provisions and associated public sector spending.
      2. Maintain an ‘ecologically sustainable’ population without decreasing immigration.

      The politics of naivety at their best. I actually live in the seat of Melbourne and I’m embarrassed.

    • NK says:

      03:09pm | 09/08/10

      I think the most scariest part is the following:

      “Scientists would calculate sustainable levels of resource consumption, economists would establish systems to meet those levels.”

      They actually think that they can replace the spontaneous organising power of the price mechanism with a bunch of bean counters. This extreme form of centralised command economy has been tried before; in the USSR.

      I don’t think anyone here truly appreciates that this ‘committee’ would have a ridiculous amount of centralised power, it would be easily corrupted over time. Just who decides what is a ‘sustainable level of resource consumption’? Those “systems” sound a lot like they are required to coerce/enforce these bureaucratically decided “sustainable” levels; tyranny.

      What it all comes down to, is the Green’s love of central planning; they think they are virtuous enough to provide a ‘better’ outcome than the market.

      The Greens analyse what the market produces and subjectively conclude ‘good’ or ‘bad’. They wish to eliminate the so-called ‘bad’ transactions that occur in the market (whilst conversely they will interfere in the market to promote so-called ‘good’ transactions). History has shown shown us that such progressive zeal usually creates greater evil than the one they set out to eliminate.

    • Kirk says:

      09:00am | 10/08/10

      I have read articles about military conscription, so is it safe for me to assume that Tony Abbott is going to introduce conscription?

      I think if the Greens won a general election, someday somehow, and they attempted to implement any of this madness, they’d be swiftly voted out at the next election - assuming the senate didn’t do a ‘75 and block them.

      What a fantasy.  Fear mongering by any measure.

    • john says:

      09:45am | 09/08/10

      The Greens are like watermelons, Green on the outside, and Red on the inside.  For 30 years I voted labour, my vote goes to the libs this year (i will be very careful where my preference vote goes to in the lower house, but it will not be Greens).  Greens only care about there ideology, and not the people or environment.  I should know, my ex-boss was one, and judging by the way he managed, we are in deep s^&t if they hold the balance of power.  They are coal huggers, promoting one of the most polluting transportation available in Australia, coal powered public transport system, and using the car as an escape goat.  How is the aging population and those who rely on the car to get around, as they cannot use public transport or the bicycle (Ongoing conversion of roads to bicycle lanes, creating congestion by design).  Discrimination, what a disgrace! They also push to build up and not out, thousands of homes have been demolished to make way, demolishing there lovely front and back gardens, full of trees and grass, great carbon sinks, and what do the Greens give us in return?  Urban Heat Island, and blame Climate Change in its place.  Wake up people!  If the seat of Melbourne is won by the Greens, watch Melbourne slowly plunge back into the dark ages, with increase crime within the vast concrete jungle, with no escape, as all roads will be gone.  What a future to look forward to ..... NOT!

    • MCCBD says:

      09:46am | 09/08/10

      Take a city centre. The most artificial environment created by man; more concrete per square meter than anywhere else; most reliant of all localities on the stuff of human needs to be transported, burning greenhouse gas; the first localities to go troppo should all the trappings of our modern society such as power and water fail; the place where Gaia is most likely to be read about in a book rather than experienced firsthand. Why is this where all the Greens live? Shouldn’t we start calling them Greys?

    • Kirk says:

      09:25am | 10/08/10

      It’s not rocket surgery.  People in the inner city experience the worst excesses of pollution, consumerism, social problems and inequality.  Those people are the most likely to vote for the Greens due to their awareness of these issues.

    • neil says:

      09:48am | 09/08/10

      I have always voted Liberal even though my political persuasion is mildly left. Liberal does not mean conservative or right wing, you can be very progressive (left) and very Liberal, i.e. Nelson Mandela. I have never voted Labor because they are too authoritarian, they try to interfere with our lives too much, I believe this comes from their Union connections.

      By comparison the Greens are so authoritarian that a vote for the Greens is a vote for totalitarianism, the Greens believe they know what is best for us, and if we don’t agree they will force it upon us, kind of reminiscent of Stalinism or Fascism.

      A VOTE FOR THE GREENS IS A VOTE AGAINST DEMOCRACY

    • The Badger says:

      10:32am | 09/08/10

      “Liberal doesn’t mean conservative or right wing”?
      Dog whistling politicians seem right wing to me.
      So do misogynistic holy rollers.

      The only thing progressive about this batch of “liberals” is they want to progress you back to the 50’s, where a woman knew her place and gay’s were still in the closet and we didn’t have all this kerfuffle about the environment.A time where real men checked for commies under the bed before they hopped in to simulate the missionaries they are.

    • A Bob says:

      03:37pm | 09/08/10

      Prior to the 1960’s ‘liberal’ meant economic liberal. Free markets and stuff. This was the meaning in place when the Liberal party was founded. The opposite were Socialists.

      After the 60’s ‘liberal’ came to mean a social liberal. Post-modernism and stuff. The opposite were Conservatives.

      Blame the Americans for the confusion.

    • papachango says:

      04:48pm | 09/08/10

      @A Bob - the correct term now is classical liberal or libertarian. As you said, the Yanks redefined liberal to mean authoritarian socialist, so the ‘classical’ was to avoid confusion.

      A true classical liberal is both economically liberal (generally considered rightwing) and socially liberal (generally considered leftwing).

      The Liberal party was founded on classical liberal principles (small government, minimal interference etc), and they still have the most economically liberal policies. However ther aren’t that many social liberals, most are social conservatives, with a few exceptions like Joe Hockey, Ted Bailieu etc.

      On the other hand Labor are generally less economically liberal thanks to their ties with the unions (Hawke/Keating were exceptions), and have a mix of social liberals and social conservatives (Conroy).

      As for the Greens, they are socially liberal on some trendy things like opposing Internet censorship, euthanasia, gay rights and drugs, but overwhelmingly authoritarian economically, and on any social issues connected to the environment.

      Even where they are supposedly socially liberal, their policies would be a disaster as they’re not backed up by personal responsibility. As an example, drug legalisation. I actually agree in principle that all drugs should be legalised; basically the government should have no right to determine what you can and can’t put in your body. However, with that comes personal responsibility for the consequences - e.g. if you get sick or addicted.

      However, the Greens want not only to decriminalise drugs, but to treat drug addiction as a ‘health issue’ and provide free shooting galleries to heroin injectors. Even when people commit drug-related crimes the Greens would be soft on thee m, presumably because they are marginalised victims of society or some such. Combined with their vision for free-state provided healthcare, this would be a disaster, as you could write yourself off as much as you like and get the state to clean up the mess for you.

    • neil says:

      09:43pm | 09/08/10

      @papachango

      Isn’t that what I said wink

    • TheRealDave says:

      09:49am | 09/08/10

      A vote for the Greens is a vote for moronic insipidy. Their ‘policies’ look like they’ve been cut and pasted from the moronic fringe dwellers guide to stupidity.

      I can understand not liking Big Jules or the Mad Monk…but voting for the party Bob Brown leads?!?! The only thing more appalling would be voting for Barnaby ‘the Amoeba’ Joyce.

    • Dave B says:

      10:56pm | 09/08/10

      Bob Brown, Barnaby Joyce…all we have to do is dig up Joh Bjelke and we’d have the trifecta.

      Better yet…........resuscitate Cheryl Kernot.

    • DougB says:

      10:05am | 09/08/10

      Anyone who is seriously considering voting Greens, should read the paper
      “The Australian greens election policies”
      Why The Greens’ Policies Matter” by Jim Hoggett written in 2004.  It has a very detailed analysis of the policies and the effect they would have on Australia, and it is not good.
      Educate yourselves people. Greens in name does not mean Greens in real life.

    • Macon Paine says:

      10:52am | 09/08/10

      Cheers DougB

      Thanks for that it is an eye opener and it makes for some very depressing reading. For all those contemplating voting green here is the Jim Hoggett paper read this before you do, what have you got to lose?:
      http://www.ipa.org.au/library/greenpolicies.pdf

      Here is the conclusion:
      “Both Green policies, and Green candidates ought to be rejected at
      the next election.
      This is not simply because those policies are xenophobic, inward
      looking and based on poor understanding of the world.
      It is not simply because they fail to demonstrate public benefit. It is
      not because they will undermine the incentives to work, to innovate
      and to create wealth. It is not even because they patently won’t
      work.
      It is because they are a rerun of a whole political philosophy and
      structure that has been resoundingly rejected, not only in the West,
      but also by all those countries that applauded the destruction of the
      Berlin Wall.
      Pursuing these policies in Parliament, the Greens will seek to pressure
      other parties to:
      • restrict the use of energy
      • shrink the economy
      • restrict the flow of skilled people and foreign funds to Australia
      • restrict the import of goods and services
      • regulate our society in detail
      These policies will make us all worse off. The poor will suffer most.
      No other party, and only a tiny minority of closed communist societies,
      is trying to do this. In the end, the policies stifle natural and
      fundamental human aspirations to better our condition and that of
      succeeding generations.”
      Ouch! Watermelons indeed.

    • The Badger says:

      12:06pm | 09/08/10

      Ahh,-  the IPA, that great conservative think tank.

      Thank you so much for giving us the right wing conservative perspective on the greens.

      Are you sure you would rather refer us to Bolt or Akerman to see what they think of the greens? Nothing like a fair and balanced “think tank”

    • cynic says:

      10:07am | 09/08/10

      The greens have a very bad habit of saying anything at any time to make themselves look good as a means to hide thier real agendas. Look at their polcies & read them carefully. They use the environment to push their very odd marxist views that even labor’s left find loopy. For example, australia MUST have zero carbon emisions by 2050. Get yot bikes out people as tha’s all you will have for transport & we will all live in caves. Their are extremists who rely upon gullible voters who belive they just want to look after the environment. They are very dishonest.

    • Macon Paine says:

      10:40am | 09/08/10

      Exactly the greens will say anything and do anything to advance their agenda they are a bunch of basment dwelling crackpots.  I thought the greens “zero emissions by 2050” was loony enough (apparently I was wrong) until I got a “Socialist Alliance” flyer in my mail box the other day (hopefully it was on 100% recycled paper and they offset the emissions and went out and planted a tree), because get this, they want to have zero emissions by 2020! It truely is amazing how far the loony left will go to delude themselves.

    • David O'Halloran says:

      10:17am | 09/08/10

      Wow, what a lot of silly prejudice in these comments! The Greens are not going to win government. It would be great to get some greens elected to balance out the extremism of the Liberal party and the dithering of the Labor Party. The big parties need a reminder that it is policies and ideas that count not just PR used to spread fear.

    • Gregg says:

      11:05am | 09/08/10

      David, you may want to view the Liberal party as extreme and yet there are many Labor voters who will say what did John Howard do in 11 years, inferring that he did SFA and so you would have say what was extreme then.
      Sure there were things like joining the US on Iraq and I actually voted against them on that and then we had the Pacific solution before Christmas Island was constructed and now with Labor revoking TPVs, the place is swamped and so the problem is with us again, a solution needing to be found.
      He moved quickly on gun control after Port Arthur
      But generally, I would class Liberals as being more moderate in government.
      Labor love to spend a lot more money than what we ever have and that then means in paying it back, less money from future revenue will be spent where it could be.
      But be it Labor or Liberal in power, do you really think they need to be hamstrung by having to deal with a third minor party?
      The Senate afterall is there supposedly to represent the states and one reason the Greens will have power is that Tasmania has a much lower ratio of population/senator.
      We’ll have the possibility of a govrnment given a mandate to govern and then Greens saying sorry, we’ll not pass that legislation and so what a fiasco.

    • Duff says:

      11:29am | 09/08/10

      David, yes, it would be great to get some Greens elected to balance Liberal ‘extremism’ and Labor ‘dithering’!  Like the ETS, right?  Good example.  Those pesky Liberals dared support it and those dithering Labor hacks couldn’t get off their behinds to cut a deal with industry.  Thank god the Greens were there to prevent anything from happening!

    • Russell says:

      10:39am | 09/08/10

      Why is the Greens major support base in affluent urban areas like inner city Melbourne and Sydney?

      In rural and regional areas, the Taliban are more popular that the Greens. In working class areas, you’d be better admitting to a mental illness than voting Greens…  Spout Bob Browns “steady state economy” (no growth) ideas in a third world country and you will be arrested.

      So tell me, is being “green” the same as being rich? Like Dick Smith suddenly deciding the capitalism that made him rich is “evil”?

      Some self interest and hypocrisy there, just a bit?

    • Get rid of all of them says:

      10:41am | 09/08/10

      Voting greens is a vote for a Republic.

      Problem is they will do it with something called a plebicite.

      Which has absolutely no legal footing. And is unconstitutional making it invalid and treason.

      People think voting for a referendum will make Australia like America..  right?  wrong

      Voting for a Republic will make Australia like China.

      Yes a Communist Dictatorship.

      With your I’m not a commie Prime Minister Gillard (sic)  who also needs to come down to Melbourne and front up to her own treason charges.

    • James says:

      10:44am | 09/08/10

      I have met Adam Bandt and he strikes me as the sort of person we want in politics, he has morals that he sticks to, which is more than you can say for the many slimy characters in either the ALP or the LNP.

    • Darren says:

      10:52am | 09/08/10

      wow - i suppose if you want a stalinist party (and that refers to their internal actions, not their beliefs) then the Greens would eb the way to go!

    • shane says:

      11:05am | 09/08/10

      I love those of you who spout lines line “a vote for the greens is a vote for labor”, and “anyone who votes based on gender, etc, should be able to vote at all”.

      A vote is never wasted. Even a donkey vote. To opt out of voting is just as valid as a vote for labor or liberal, or whoever. If you feel that none of the parties represent your views or thoughts, then I think it’s quite legitimate to “donkey vote”. If you’re offered a range of choices by the various political parties and you disagree strongly with all of them, then why should you be told your vote is wasted if none of them represent your views?

      A vote is only wasted in the sense that a third party observer with their own vested interests would consider a donkey vote a “waste” because the vote hasn’t been cast in the way that THEY would like. I’m sure most liberal and labor votes think that all those who voted for the opposite “wasted” their vote. So why don’t we ditch this noble “make your vote count” sentiment for what it really is. People who don’t like the way other people vote, and who call them names because they can’t tell other people how to vote.

      And if I vote Green, then that’s no more a vote for “labor” then a vote for any of the parties the libs have done preference deals with is a vote for the libs.

    • Adam Diver says:

      11:49am | 09/08/10

      A donkey vote is not wasted but a vote on gender (which ironically is as sexist as you can get) can skew results in a way where arbitrary features of politicians .i.e what is between thier legs, becomes the most important factor in deciding an election outcome.

      Everyone knows these elections are marginal, to vote on such a facetious basis, destroys what very little is still right with democracy which is what you are essentially praising.

      Do not be so quick to judge, people who vote for liberals on the basis of a man in charge are just as bad, but probably worse in this PC age of ours.

      Besides you vote green, why would anyone consider your opinion anyway. How are the renewables progressing anyway? Still against nuclear?

    • Eliza says:

      12:00pm | 09/08/10

      Pretty funny to hear all this noble talk of people power from a Greens voter. The Greens think that democracy is all well and good except that the vast mass of the populace disagree with their policies. So when the Greens attract support it’s because voters are “standing up”, but when Labor does it’s “populism” or “moving to the right”.

      The major parties may take some time to achieve change, but that’s because they’re actually responsible for governing for a whole nation, and not just a handful of inner-city types.

      As an inner-city lefty type myself, I do sometimes feel we should be in charge of decision making for the whole country… but then I sober up and realise democracy’s probably not such a bad thing after all.

    • shane says:

      01:03pm | 09/08/10

      Eliza. I’m not a green voted, though I don’t think there’s anything wrong with them thats any worse then the 2 major parties. Generally I’ve made my mind up by this time in the election cycle. Actually, generally I’ve made my mind up in the months and years leading up to a vote.

      This years offering isn’t very apetising though. And it irritates my when people who have no right to condemn people for their voting choices do so.

      @Adam. I see you’re point, but I still the idea of democracy is you vote for your candidate based upon whatever criteria you yourself feel is appropriate. I’m not a green voter, but I do believe in Human induced climate change and the need to develop alternative power sourses (yes, renewables being one).

      I don’t expect anyone to consider my opion seriously, my commentary is largely a voiceless rant into the polictical mess that are these commentary sites. I’m completely aware of my own powerlessness, though I see you’ve tried to “cut through” with suble taunts about renewables. You won’t change your view, or me mine.

    • Adam Diver says:

      01:17pm | 09/08/10

      @ shane, I have yet to change one persons view on this site yet. The green barb was in jest but I am not so sure what draws me too voice my opinion here. Perhaps I Like the sound (or type) of my own voice.

      But we seem to have too sides to any debate here and no positions ever seem to shift. I concede at times when there is no point to argue but have not been benefited from this myself no matter how many inconsistencies, facts or quotes I throw someones way.

      I don’t believe in human induced climate change, but it does not mean I don’t value your opinion. At least its considered, and had thought behind it. The fact that we come to different conclusions is insignificant.

      Perhaps this last one may sway your mind, and I would love to hear your opinion,

      If you are happy to vote on whatever basis they find appropriate, you must then concede that is the same reason the major parties continually appeal to the lowest common denominator. I.e no one wants to pay more tax = no ETS. The excessive amount of time, money and policy been spent on “boat people”. The mandatory filter appealing to the religous lobbies. The anti-gay sentiment of both majors etc.

      Its this stupid vote that means many logical and easy decisions do not get made, policy announcements are stupid, filled with little detail and come with a repitive catch phrase for the nightly news. ANd personal greed is put ahead of the countrys benefit.

      I don’t advocate non-cumpolsery voting, but perhaps somesort of IQ test before a vote or at least a political competency test. smile

    • Peter says:

      03:10pm | 09/08/10

      @ Adam Diver. I reckon anyone that needs a how to vote card on election day shouldn’t be allowed to vote. That’s a simple IQ test we have at every election and an easy way to weed out those not worthy of voting…

    • Debbie says:

      03:27pm | 09/08/10

      Actually, not correctly filling out the ballot paper so that the vote doesn’t count as an actual vote (ie an informal vote) is not the same as a “donkey” vote. The latter is when the boxes are simply numbered in the same order they appear on the ballot paper.

    • Ray says:

      11:28am | 09/08/10

      If the Greens’ climate and economic policies are implemented, there is no doubting their sustainability—namely, the heavy ongoing subsidies that would need to be sustained by taxpayers so as to enable those policies to operate but yield national negative benefits in return.

    • thatmosis says:

      11:58am | 09/08/10

      Luke C have you ever lived on Solar Power, I think not. I do completely and I can tell you its no picnic. We paid about $50,000 for our system that allows us to have TV and all the mod cons except of course a Microwave, Airconditioning, an electric water heater , an electric heater, a big fridge/ freezer a toaster, an electric kettle etc. Just imagine a family of four trying to live on what we live on and you will see that the Greens ideas on Power belong in Never Never Land. Add to the cost and include replacing the batteries every 10 to 15 years at about $16,000 a pop and you will also see that its not very eco friendly after all. You and your ilk that spout all this warm and fuzzy crap should get out into the real world for a change and smell the roses. Another thing, all that do gooder stuff that people have been doing for the last 5 years to save the planet has been completely negated by mother nature herself with the Iceland volcano and now the one in the Phillipines that have pumped more “dangerous” gases into the atmosphere in a couple of weeks than man has done over the last century or two. Mother nature one, people zero.

    • Peter says:

      12:03pm | 09/08/10

      I suppose since you were in Melbourne Paul, you would have noticed there is no hysteria about boat people down here.. Almost a non-issue..

    • stephen says:

      12:14pm | 09/08/10

      The Greens stand for only blue and yellow. Wattle’n sky. Nothing else. Ziltch else. They haven’t got one iota on serious matters to do with Economics, Foreign Policy or any notion of Social Contracts. If they get a guernsey the birds and the bees’ll love ‘em, but they’re even less a serious proposition than Labor.

    • papachango says:

      02:04pm | 09/08/10

      Oh I’ll think you find they have a fair bit of economic policy actually, all based on classic Marxism-Leninism. For starters they want to nationalise the telco industry, re-nationalise public transport, tax the rich and big corporate much more, and bring back death duties.

      As well as blue and yellow, there’s a lot of Red within the Greens.

      They calim to have grassroots democracy unlike the factional interests of the major parties, but in reality there are three distinct shades of Green - the ‘dark greens’ who are sort of neo-pagan ex enviornmental activists (see Bob Brown), the ‘light greens’, who are generally white middle class ‘soccer mom’ types who think being Green is fashionable as long as they can still drive nice cars and live in the inner city. Adam Bandt is probably one of these.

      Then you’ve got your ‘watermelons’ (red on the inside) who see the green exterior as perfect cover for their far-Left ideology. This crowd is the most dominant faction - see Lee Rhiannon, Sarah Hanson-Young etc. Don’t vote for these crazies, and if voting Liberal direct your preferences away from them.

    • Jacques says:

      12:36pm | 09/08/10

      I like the Greens policies on the environment, animals, population, gay marriage etc. But the asylum seeker and family reunion immigration thing bothers me. Probably not enough to stop me voting for them, but I hope they revise their policies at some point to be more consistent.

    • Moggy says:

      12:43pm | 09/08/10

      The Greens won’t be happy until they have us all living in huts made of straw & we cook our food over an open fire fuelled with dried cow shit.  We’ll all be able to sit around the fire at night & sing songs about our glorious mother earth as we all scratch away at our filthy dreadlocks because the lice are so bad, but lice shampoo is considered to be cruelty to the lice. We’ll have to walk everywhere because bicycles are made of iron which is taboo because it comes from a filthy capitalist mines. And what an immense joy to be able to howl to the skies at each full moon. Our children will die from dreadful diseases because all innoculation will be banned because it’s “not natural”  The only education available will be in spinning our own cloth for our multi coloured clown pants, & growing mung beans.  Children will be allowed to watch their parents, & anybody else for that matter, copulating. And of course the pedophiles will be allowed to do what they like doing to little kids. There’ll be no prisons because it’s cruel to lock up people. Instead there’ll be love-ins where the criminal apologises to the victim & everybody ends up weeping with joy.  I can’t wait!

    • N says:

      01:07pm | 09/08/10

      Frankly it’s scary the amount of people swayed to vote for the watermelon party, but given the major parties are so closely aligned, it’s not really surprising that the greens have become an alternative, albeit a bad one. It would be nice to have a record of those who voted green, so that when the economy is destroyed by its policies, they can be held directly accountable.

    • Peter says:

      01:24pm | 09/08/10

      “Nice to have a record of those who voted”. That is the single most destroying policy of freedom/democracy that i have ever heard..

      The similarities between the thought processes of the average Australian and Chinese polices are quite frightening…

    • N says:

      02:20pm | 09/08/10

      Peter; unquestionably. But at the very least it would force those considering voting for these more extreme parties to fully understand the ramifications of the policies they are supporting. I suspect that if this were implemented, Mr Brown and his party would be lucky to see < 0.01% of primary votes.

    • Peter says:

      03:06pm | 09/08/10

      @ N. On that theory, there are a lot of people who owe us some money back on the BER and Pink Bats fiasco..

      Agree, the Greens are a joke, but in the absense of a proper 3rd party, the Greens will always get the protest vote..

    • Vote Counter says:

      02:47pm | 09/08/10

      Its odd how the ramifications of Bob Brown’ “steady state economy” (no growth) are so little discussed and understood. They would have catastrophic effects on small businesses, the less well off and all those at the bottom of the economic ladder. But in the inner city, the uni professors of Melbourne and Sydney and self-funded retirees living in idyllic green outposts of Tasmania and Byron Bay   who in their naivety vote green – somehow imagine their own affluent lifestyle will remain unaffected.

      It wouldn’t of course. Personally, I would give the Greens the chance to implement it. It would be a brief, tumultuous, and an absolutely calamitous time in nation’s our history.

      But at the end of it, the Greens would be gone forever.

    • iansand says:

      03:24pm | 09/08/10

      Simple.  The only way that anyone could get richer is by having someone else get poorer.  Economic entropy.  Without growth there is no expanding pool of wealth.

    • Garry says:

      02:58pm | 09/08/10

      For me the Greens lost credability with their ‘preference deal’. They dislike Labor’s policies but if it means the Greens get more seats in the senate and ultimately power in the senate does that not demean what the Greens stand for. The day after this deal was done the Greens screamed blue murder over environmental policies but still the deal is in place. Am I wrong in my assumption? or did I miss something?

    • Jeremy says:

      08:08am | 13/08/10

      Yes. All parties preference other parties - the Liberals preference Family First; the ALP preferences the Greens; One Nation preferences the Liberals.

      The only way not to issue preferences would be not to issue a Senate ticket at all, which would mean that you could only get votes from the TINY percentage of Australians prepared to number 80 boxes below the line.

      If the Greens did this (a) they would be destroyed and (b) they’d deserve to be treated as idiots who were not serious about representing people in parliament.

      There’s nothing unprincipled in the Greens’ issuing preferences (because they really have to) whilst saying to their voters - “we’d rather you didn’t follow them, though”.

      As for their choice being the environmentally unfriendly ALP - who else should they preference? The Liberals are even worse.

    • Garry says:

      02:58pm | 09/08/10

      For me the Greens lost credability with their ‘preference deal’. They dislike Labor’s policies but if it means the Greens get more seats in the senate and ultimately power in the senate does that not demean what the Greens stand for. The day after this deal was done the Greens screamed blue murder over environmental policies but still the deal is in place. Am I wrong in my assumption? or did I miss something?

    • Ujak says:

      03:04pm | 09/08/10

      I am hoping that if the ALP gets in, the Greens have the balance of power. then we will see the truth..

    • Bruce of Modbury says:

      05:58pm | 09/08/10

      Before voying for the Greens, please go to their web site and actually read their policies.  Just a few

      return the company tax rate to 33% and broaden the company tax base by reducing tax concessions.
      abolishing the 30% Private Health Insurance Rebate in order to increase funding for public hospitals;
      implement a gradual and long term shift in the tax system from work based taxes to taxes on natural resources and pollution including:
      •  a carbon tax levied on generators of mains-supplied electricity or gas
      •  a national carbon trading scheme; and
      •  other ecological taxes and charges at a level sufficient enough that their prices reflect the full environmental cost of their production, use or disposal.
      ensure that natural monopolies and other essential public services are under public ownership.
      abolish the requirement for secret ballots before industrial action.
      legislate for a mandatory minimum of five weeks paid annual leave for all employees.
      prohibit the exploration for, and mining and export of, uranium.

      The last one will close down Roxby Downs for a start because who would want the world to use uranium (non C02) when they can use coal.

 

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