7.32pm: Tomorrow will be another huge day in Canberra, with Malcolm Turnbull clinging frantically to his position and the Government desperate to get the CPRS through the Senate before Kevin Rudd meets with US President Barack Obama early next week. We’ll be continuing our coverage of this extraordinary political story in the morning. For in-depth news coverage tonight got to The Australian.

7.30pm: Government Leader in the House Anthony Albanese says that under an agreement made with Malcolm Turnbull the CPRS will be voted on by 3.45pm tomorrow. There will not be a motion to move a guillotine of the debate tonight.

7.10pm: Malcolm Turnbull is standing firm. He has just told a press conference “this is about the future of our planet and the future of our children, and their children… this is about risk management… saying we’re not going to do anything about climate change is irresponsible.” He said the CPRS had the support of the “overwhelming majority” of the Coalition partyroom. “Most people who doubt the science also know that it makes sense to take out insurance… I believe we must maintain this course of action… I am committed to it, we must be a party committed to action on climate change.”

6.53pm: Opposition whip Michael Johnson reported to be about to resign.

6.50pm: Barnaby Joyce says: “We either lose Malcolm, or we lose all our voters.”

6.44pm: Malcolm Turnbull will hold a press conference at 7pm.

6.44pm: “I told you so,” says Wilson Tuckey.

6.34pm: Looking unlikely Turnbull will support a move to guillotine the debate.

6.28pm: Samantha Maiden from The Australian Tweets: Minchin greeted with applause as enters the senate party room.

6.25pm: Sophie Mirabella says “I was prepared to demote myself to vote against it.” She also says she had a “civil conversation” with Malcolm Turnbull in advance of her announcement. Mirabella said of possible plans to guillotine debate in the Senate as “very unwise and not in good faith.”

6.05pm: Liberal senators will hold a partyroom meeting at 6.30pm where Liberal powerbroker Nick Minchin is expected to formally stand down from the opposition front bench.

6.02pm: Reports Malcolm Turnbull has agreed with the Government to guillotine debate on the CPRS in the Senate and push the vote through tonight. High risk maneuver.

5.59pm: Some wags are quick off the mark. See new Twitter account http://twitter.com/tonyabbottpm.

5.55pm: Reports Steve Parry, the Chief Opposition whip, will resign.

5.48pm: Reports Eric Abetz he’ll resign.

Old friends: Nick Minchin and Tony Abbott in 1998

5.40pm: Sky News reports a leadership ticket of Tony Abbott and Tony Smith is being put together

5.36pm: Sophie Mirabella announces she’s quit the Opposition front bench

5.35pm: Government MPs have been called back to Parliament

5.15pm: Tony Abbott announces he’s quit the front bench because he could not vote for the Emissions Trading Scheme. Says it is not about leadership. Nick Minchin also expected to quit the front bench.

147 comments

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    • scio says:

      05:12pm | 26/11/09

      To the lazy clowns in the Liberal Party

      Which country leads the world in production and commissioning of solar power & wind power?
      Which country leads the world in production and use of hydro power?
      Which country leads the world in production volume of electric vehicles and is home to a car company which aspires to be worlds biggest in 2025 based on electric power?
      Which country is the only one with carbon capture on a thermal power station and the worlds biggest solar power station?
      Which country is introducing a new generation of new technology high safety high efficiency nuclear power stations?
      Which country has cheapest most efficient public transport?
      Which country actively limits population to reduce resource demands?
      Which country mocks Australian manufacturing industry for their government handouts to avoid embracing new responsible technology?

      Answer to all questions : China.
      Wake up Australia – stop bludging

    • Roger That says:

      05:18pm | 26/11/09

      Quick! Somebody get Norman Gunston down to Parliament House!

    • Norman says:

      05:25pm | 26/11/09

      Hey, scio

      How about democracy?
      Individual rights and freedoms?
      How about the justice system?

    • Peter M says:

      05:26pm | 26/11/09

      scio - China is the largest emitter of CO2 in the world. Are you saying we should be more like China and increase our CO2 emissions?

    • scio says:

      05:29pm | 26/11/09

      The Liberals need a new leader to reflect the intellect, ethics , professionalism , honesty & character of Minchin, Abbott, Tuckey etc


      I believe Godwin Gretch is available.

    • Eno says:

      05:29pm | 26/11/09

      This is truly awesome - just when you think that things are going peculiar when Malcolm called a spill against a non existant opponent and 35 of them voted for the “Ghost” the Liberals decide to implode themselves even more spectacularly!

      Happy days!

    • scio says:

      05:35pm | 26/11/09

      Peter M   Read what I said - it is not that challenging. China is taking more action than Australia is - Chinas population is 50 times Australias but Australian has largest per capita emissions in the world.

      Norman - I am not complimenting China on its human rights - I am adressing the reguritated lies about its actions on climate change. Really : grow up

    • Peter says:

      05:35pm | 26/11/09

      Surely regardless of whether there is a leadership challenge, Turnbull must resign because this will go and on until he’s gone.

      I don’t support the Liberals (nor the ALP for that matter), but our parliamentary democracy needs a strong opposition to function properly.

    • shane says:

      05:38pm | 26/11/09

      Turnbull has totally misread his support base. He needs to go. What he is proposing to do is to allow an unelected body to fine us if we breach a so called target emmisions.
      So for my 1100$, they are going to reduce the 1.5% of our golbal contribution by 5%. This will reduce our global output by 0.00075%
      the current concentration of carbon in the atmosphere is 0.038 per cent
      How much will this reduce the temperature please?

      This is insane!

    • Peter M says:

      05:50pm | 26/11/09

      Thanks Scio, I did read what you said. It just makes no sense. China’s emissions are the greatest in the world and are growing at 2.5% to 5% per year. If you want an example of a low co2 economy I would suggest you look elsewhere.

    • Louis McLennan says:

      05:51pm | 26/11/09

      This has been good to see such strong opposition against climate change. Might educate a few followers(I say followers not believers).

    • Peter Collinson says:

      05:53pm | 26/11/09

      Has anyone heard from Kevin Andrews?

    • Lou Lou says:

      05:54pm | 26/11/09

      Hmm I hope Tony moves to Melbourne he is clearly the best looking polly and has a six pack!!!
      Surely we can find him a nice job down here??

    • mountcross says:

      05:55pm | 26/11/09

      Get rid of this voodoo science the ETS is based on - vote NO to an ETS !1

    • Eno says:

      05:57pm | 26/11/09

      Peter M - china is reinventing itself as a “western” style country. They certainly need more power to do that rather than as a agrarian collective. Are you seriously suggesting that those countries not lucky enough to be already industrialised should be somehow kept in the middle ages? Shame on you.

    • Jane says:

      05:58pm | 26/11/09

      Getting a bit testy there scio…you’re everywhere trying to spot fires…sounding desperate. Worried that the sentiment is changing as people are waking up…and the Libs will be seen as taking a stand AGAINST Rudd Labor’s SHAM ETS?

      Well done Tony Abbott. Hopefully this will give the impetus for more within the Party to follow suit and reject Rudd’s/Labor’s sham of an ETS….and Turnbull’s pig headedness.
      Respect Tony…and respect to all others in the Party so far who have already had the courage of their convictions to make a stand on this and reject it for the good of all Australians like Minchin and McGuaran etc.It’s testament to the freedom of opinion in the Liberal Party and the ability to make a stand based on conscience. You won’t see that in the dictatorial Labor Party.

    • shabangabang says:

      05:59pm | 26/11/09

      What we are seeing is the tip of the iceberg. It is happening in Australia, we will see it elsewhere when they try to pass similar schemes. While I agree the current scheme is flawed, it is a start.

    • Jason says:

      06:00pm | 26/11/09

      People !!!! The ocean is rising, What is going to happen to small flat tropical islands with populations if the water rises over the top of the island ? Where are all these islanders going to go in about 20 years when the ocean claims there island ?

    • Roger That says:

      06:09pm | 26/11/09

      “The result the party gives us is always the right result.” Tony Abbott, 25 November 2009

      “This is a very difficult decision for me I have always regarded myself as a loyal party man.” Tony Abbott, 26 November 2009

      “A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.” Ralph Waldo Emerson, 1841

    • Jarrad says:

      06:10pm | 26/11/09

      Nice to see the people who don’t believe climate change exists voted for a leadership candidate that doesn’t exist.

    • Freddy says:

      06:11pm | 26/11/09

      So does this mean Tony won’t be doing his Friday blog in the Tele tomorrow?

    • Darren says:

      06:10pm | 26/11/09

      Well said Jane. Either the intellectual brawn behind the Liberal Party collectively resigns, or Malcolm Turnbull is gone by tomorrow morning. As a voter who is sadly watching the current Government slowly but surely destroy the Australian economy, we need more politicians with the fortitude of Tony Abbott to stand up for what is right for THIS country, not every other country on this planet.

    • Shaun says:

      06:12pm | 26/11/09

      Turnbull seems a bit nervous/edgy at the press conference, fidgeting and moving around alot.  I doubt he is going anywhere though.

    • Jeff from Meroo says:

      06:16pm | 26/11/09

      The quote of the night will be “we agree with the government on this deal”.

      With those words Malcolm nailed the coffin lid shut on his political career.

      What a FAN-F’ing-TASTIC Opposition we’ve got.  Why do we even have elections if everyone is going to agree with everything.  Just elect one guy to do the job of running everything..  I mean to date, NOBODY has stood their ground against Rudd.

    • Daniel says:

      06:17pm | 26/11/09

      I just watched that speech Turnbull just gave. As much as I hate the Liberal party I feel sorry for this guy.

    • Anoyed liberal voter says:

      06:19pm | 26/11/09

      I am a border X/Y gen liberal voter but seriously how much do they expect us to put up with? Get your act together and stop the petty in flighting or you have no hope at the next election. Mr Kevin 07 must be grinning from ear to ear - what a bunch of fools.
      It’s sad to see what was once a great, experienced team (think just 3 years ago!) head down hill so quick.
      If you want my vote get a grip…... otherwise you’ll get 3 more years in opposition to think about how to stop behaving like school children.

    • Peter says:

      06:20pm | 26/11/09

      I thought Turnbull was quite impressive in the press conference.  He’s certainly got guts.  I was expecting him to not only resign as leader but also as an MP.

    • Lucy says:

      06:19pm | 26/11/09

      Malcolm is completely and utterly delusional. He can’t possibly last as leader. He SHOULD be gone by the morning.

      I agree with Barnaby Joyce - lose Malcolm, or your voters.

      How refreshing to see so many people in the Liberal Party having the guts to stand up and fight for their beliefs.

    • Hamish vettice says:

      06:21pm | 26/11/09

      Although the comedic value of people skills Abbott becoming Opposition Leader if off the planet, it does the country no good to have a conservative re-incarnation of Mark Latham.

    • Patrick says:

      06:24pm | 26/11/09

      You have to give him credit, He’s got balls. To bad is party is a bunch of sulky malcontents.

    • Eno says:

      06:24pm | 26/11/09

      I’m With you there Shabang “We want something done about climate change so our children have a decent life” ‘YAY’ “But you’re gonna have to pay for it.” Nah sod that - we’ll just get on some boats and bugger off to Indonesia if the deserts grow too big..

    • Paul B says:

      06:25pm | 26/11/09

      Peter M- per head of population Australia produces nearly 5 times as much CO2 as China. Statistics are fun aren’t they?

    • James says:

      06:25pm | 26/11/09

      As a moderate Liberal who supports rational policy I find it embarrassing that it is the right of the party that is driving the opposition to the ETS.  Moderate Liberals have always been about free minds, free markets, rational policy and scepticism of grandiose schemes.
      Under Turnbull the federal party has lost its way out of fear of a double dissolution. The party was always going to have its Malcolm-moment…thankfully that moment has passed,or soon will have, and we can have a robust debate about the quality of data, inference, modelling and cost-benefit analysis behind the ETS.
      Frankly, I’d rather the Libs lose the election than pass an ETS that does irreversible damage to the country.

    • Homer says:

      06:29pm | 26/11/09

      I would dearly love to know what kruddy carbon footprint is, especially with all those international flights….

    • JohnM says:

      06:31pm | 26/11/09

      Turnbull has to go or the Liberal Party will face an Electoral Siberia. Good to see Tony Abbott and Senetor Minchin standing tall. Joe Hockey seems to have gone missing!

    • Rosy says:

      06:36pm | 26/11/09

      Finally a liberal party I can believe in. Thank God for Malcom Turnbull. He has got my vote. Great impassioned speech and all very true. Get rid of all the sceptics!

    • Louis McLennan says:

      06:37pm | 26/11/09

      I wish people would stop treating this like a small issue. This is bigger than the GST! I admire the members of the liberal party trying to interfere with the socialist agenda of chairman Rudd and his followers/believers.

    • Daniel says:

      06:39pm | 26/11/09

      Albanese is being reasonable it seems. Friday will be very exciting when this is voting on.

    • jimmy g says:

      06:40pm | 26/11/09

      Scio - your comment (number 1) it outrageous. China can easily reduce its CO2 emissions - just some ways :

      (i)  Keep 750 million peasants in abject poverty - who the hell do these peasants think they are : aspiring to a simple fridge if it means limiting Australian families to 4 cars

      (ii) Reduce population by at least 100 million - either slaughter them or let them migrate to Australia

      (iii) Shut down noxious energy intensive industries - especially ones moved from Australia to China. Australia uses enormous quantities of pesticides & herbicides - its only fair these get made locally rather than imported from China. Rose Bay in Sydney or Toorak in Melbourne would be perfect places for these factories - those that consume most can then appreciate the costs


      All the whining rent-a-crowd bitching about China would be sure to support these simple measures to reduce Chinas emission levels

    • acker says:

      06:42pm | 26/11/09

      In response to

      [@6.50pm: Barnaby Joyce says: “We either lose Malcolm, or we lose all our voters.”]

      Barnaby considering you are not a member of the Liberal Party…how come you are using the term “WE” ?

      From where I stand your just screaming skanky ho on the sidelines trying to get everyone in the party room (not your party room) to fight.

    • iansand says:

      06:42pm | 26/11/09

      Malcolm - Bunny in the headlights.

    • Jason says:

      06:48pm | 26/11/09

      It’s time a new, free thinking party was formed in this country anyway.  Let the Liberal party dissolve and open the path for some new leadership with some fresh, logical ideas on how to solve problems.  Someone with the balls to lead and protect the country they are elected to serve.  Howard was getting stubborn and arrogant, and had to go, but boy has Australia paid a price for the pretty boy alternative.

    • Bob says:

      06:48pm | 26/11/09

      Hi Jason, where is the ocean rising exactly?  not according to any Government tide bureaus, not according to any investigation by scientists in the Maldives by the director of the Paleogeophysics and Geodynamics Department at Stockholm University,Nils Axel Morner.  Not on the Island of the dead Tasmania where the tide was marked ln the 1800s.  There was a story about islanders leaving their island in NZ territory by alarmists a couple of years ago but that was refuted by the NZ government.  We live beside the ocean and canals and have for 50 years and nothing is happening, sorry to be a wet blanket but nothing at all.  I could build computer models that would show alarming results but the climate really doesn’t care it.. If anyone really thinks that the majority of the worlds scientists are in agreement about this then go to the US senate site http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Files.View&FileStore_id=83947f5d-d84a-4a84-ad5d-6e2d71db52d9  where you will find that the vast majority of climate scientists debunk Global Warming altogether.

    • Roger That says:

      06:50pm | 26/11/09

      It’s an inconvenient truth, but Malcolm and Tony seem to be polar opposites, and there’s a climate for change in the Liberal party.  At first I was skeptical, but now I’m warming to the idea.

    • Bernadette says:

      06:52pm | 26/11/09

      Tell Mr Turnbull for the future of my children and my chidlren’s children and my new baby due in Feb 2010, I will be voting against the Liberals in Bradfield on December 5th, 2010. The support for the ETS is the death of you Mr Turnbull. If we get this new tax (ETS) a new leader is needed Mr Turnbull.

    • Jason says:

      06:55pm | 26/11/09

      Bob - normally I wouldn’t do this, but as another Jason (7:48), I just want to assure you that not all Jasons are complete idiots and think the ocean is rising smile

    • scio says:

      06:56pm | 26/11/09

      Jane says:  06:58pm | 26/11/09   If any of bothered to understand what is going on in the world you would know China is already suffering from climate change and is taking urgent action. Reduced Himalayan glaciers has resulted in reduced run off , hence reduced hydro electricity. In Australia we have already seen the consequences - higher priced food , caused by higher price agchems , caused by higher priced phosphorus chemicals (used to make agchems) due to electricity rationing in phosphorus producing areas.(such as Yunnan & Sichuan)

      Chanting inane drivel such as “the earth is cooling” does not make the science or economics disappear

    • Sarah says:

      06:56pm | 26/11/09

      What happened to us living in a democracy?  If you want to push ets through then hold a referendum and ask each and every Australia what they want to do ... If the majority of Australians are for it, then I’m with them, if the majority are against it, them I’m with them.  Right now, nobody really knows what the citizens want and our democracy is being hijacked by ideology and the arrogance of our leaders who believe Australia is too dumb to make a decision and so believe they are elected to make it for us.

    • scio says:

      06:56pm | 26/11/09

      Jane says:  06:58pm | 26/11/09   If any of bothered to understand what is going on in the world you would know China is already suffering from climate change and is taking urgent action. Reduced Himalayan glaciers has resulted in reduced run off , hence reduced hydro electricity. In Australia we have already seen the consequences - higher priced food , caused by higher price agchems , caused by higher priced phosphorus chemicals (used to make agchems) due to electricity rationing in phosphorus producing areas.(such as Yunnan & Sichuan)

      Chanting inane drivel such as “the earth is cooling” does not make the science or economics disappear

    • Terry Wright says:

      06:59pm | 26/11/09

      -5.15pm: Tony Abbott announces he’s quit the front bench
      -5.36pm: Sophie Mirabella announces she’s quit the Opposition front bench
      -6.05pm: Liberal powerbroker Nick Minchin is expected to formally stand down from the opposition front bench
      ...
      ...
      ...

      -6.44pm: “I told you so,” says Wilson Tuckey. [Comment of the day]

      Why is this bad news?
      Maybe now, the Libs won’t feel like a bad hangover from the Bush/Blair/Howard era.

    • Steve says:

      07:05pm | 26/11/09

      Jane - You talk of a dictatorial Labour Party. The Libs didn’t have the ultimate dictator in Howard? Give us a break…. and by the way, have a read of the Lowy Institute Report. The majority of Australians do believe that climate change could very well be man induced and should be insured against. Guess what? Insurance costs !

    • Gill says:

      07:07pm | 26/11/09

      Malcolm Turnbull is definitely delusional. Who does he think is going to vote for him??
      Hopefully he is given the order of the boot tomorrow .

      Congratulations to Tony Abbott and all Liberals who are standing up for Australia.
      I agree with Barnaby Joyce - lose Malcolm, or your voters!

      Chairman Krudd and Malcolm Turnbull are both millionaire frauds, we don’t need them.
      The ETS must not be passed,  it will ruin this country.

    • Brett says:

      07:07pm | 26/11/09

      Louis, That is so true, couldn’t agree more, the worst thing is, this ETS is being drawn up on dodgy science!! I’ve been saying this lately, that their is a sense of Irony, that Labor who opposed work choices, which had it’s merits, are dumping this sc(am)heme on us!

    • Brett says:

      07:08pm | 26/11/09

      Hey Acker, it is the Lib/National Coalition! not just the Libs!

    • BrettE says:

      07:21pm | 26/11/09

      scio its not about ratios of people to the rates of so-called carbon pollutants, but the total out put of our nation compared with China’s or India’s

    • David says:

      07:28pm | 26/11/09

      Congratulations to Abbott, Tuckey & that cockroach Minchin along with all the other dinosaurs for destroying the Liberal Party and thus handing Rudd at least 3 terms in power. As for the Barnaby Joyce, go back to the bush you redneck hillbilly. In Barnaby we have found a male version of Sarah Palin. I will never vote Liberal again if Turnbull does not remain leader.

    • thatcherschild says:

      07:29pm | 26/11/09

      Speaking as an out an out leftie it pains me greatly to say how much I admire Turnbulls stance.
      Whether or not you believe in man-made climate change surely its for the general good to cease our polluting ways.
      All the right-wing nuts care about is the economy, this, despite the fact weve just had a financial melt-down due to human greed…does it really matter if economies fail cos we are trying to something good, rather than failing due to greed.
      In his speech Turnbull quoted the two people I loathe more than anyone, Thatcher and Murdoch, the gods of capitalism worshipped by the right - yet even they acknowledge the damage being done to our planet by our addiction to pollution.
      As much as I dont understand the ETS its all weve got at the moment, and its a good starting point - and where were these nay-sayers when Howard proposed the very same thing?
      And to all the flat-earthers and religious people who deny climate change, excsuing it as part of gods great plan, get out of politics now, we really dont need your irrational rantings interfering with reality.

    • Pffttttt says:

      07:52pm | 26/11/09

      ETS, No thats wrong, its the ETT Emissions Trading Tax, the biggest con job since Y2K.

    • Anna says:

      07:56pm | 26/11/09

      Kevin Andrews? Tony Abbott?  They’re dreaming.  Stick with it Malcolm.

    • Johnny says:

      07:57pm | 26/11/09

      An ETS is current LIBERAL PARTY POLICY.  The rednecks do not have the numbers to change that so all they can do delay things and try and score off Rudd for trying to get the CPRS legislation through before Copenhagen. It is a framework for a future ETS and will set an example that would bring kudos to Australia and therefore Rudd which is why some of the nutbags you support want to delay it. Abbott and his maddies should just get out of the party and form their own rightwing cabal.  There must be a few phone boxes left in the ACT for future meetings.

    • Jason says:

      07:57pm | 26/11/09

      Bob @ 07.48pm - The best way I can explain it to you is that the pola ice caps are melting due to climate warming, now this extra water is obviously going to cause the ocean to rise low lying islands are going to be swamped with water.  You see its gotten to the point where there is so much pollution that its now affecting our climate and something needs to be done about it, and the CPRS is a great way to prevent pollution. Sure China and India are big on pollution but every bit of pollution we can prevent from getting into the atmoshere is a great thing.

    • Paul says:

      08:09pm | 26/11/09

      Malcolm Turnbull uses the words “honorable” and “responsible” in discussing how he wants the Liberal Party to approach climate change. Tell me please, Malcolm, what is honorable about slugging your own nation with a tax that will increase living costs yet do nothing to affect global temperatures. Tell me what’s responsible about imposing an anti-competitive structure on our power industry when the major global emitters are doing nothing about it, except (as Obama is doing) making vague statements about ‘operational targets.’ Malcolm’s lack of judgment is famous and well documented; this is clearly the most fatal misjudgment he’s making, both for his leadership and the nation he seeks to serve.

    • Paul Martin says:

      08:18pm | 26/11/09

      What must John Howard be thinking? The Liberal Party is tearing itself apart and its all the doing of its own. Cant they see a party that that in disunity is a party that is unelectable. To vote down the ETS would allow the government a double dissolution before February when Copenhagen meets. If that were to happen Rudd would be reelected which is the likely thing that would happen at the next election with all this ETS talk aside. Turnbull is the only one on the Liberal team that has the credibility and experience outside parliament to lead it. Abbott is not popular with the voter, Andrews is to far to the right on some of the things he has said and done under the Howard Government. Hockey, he’s likeable but his time is not now. If Turnbull wins any Leadership challenge then every person on the Opposition needs to put their personal opinions to oneside and back Turnbull 100% and that means passing the ETS in the Senate.

    • steve says:

      08:24pm | 26/11/09

      bob
      What about inland glaciers in China melting?What about the Antarctic?
      Is that some crazy scientists imagination?
      Turnbull represents the true Liberal. He represents change and that is what has the heccles up with the Conservatives.
      He is right to talk about the future. The disgruntled members within the Coalition represent the past.
      Both Abbott & Minchin have indicated that they will probably pass the ETS but in February. Their arguement against for the moment. They don’t want to give Rudd a victory to take to Copenhagen. How childish is that? They also refuse to drop the Shergold ETS from Coalition policy. What the????
      Their opposition at the moment has nothing to do with the National interest.
      They all agree bar the Nationals to good faith negotiations. Something they were probably hoping Rudd would oppose. They got nearly all their demands and they are backflipping.
      Now to committed supporters that means nothing. But to others out there it sends a very poor message. Turnbull has kept his word. He & the Liberal party told Australians that if the ALP accepted their amendments, only then would they pass it.
      The other side of this is the commentary I have had with people who voted ALP last election to get rid of Howard.
      They are all cheering Turnbull on. What does that indicate?
      The true character of a person is exposed when faced with adversity. Yabbott’s gutlessness was on display for all to see. First sign of a tough challenge & he bales out.
      I sincerely hope Turnbull can come through all this & kick those useless dinosaurs to the side.

    • mcdazz says:

      08:29pm | 26/11/09

      Get rid of the ETS and get rid of Tony Abbott - neither would be a big loss.

    • jack sparrow says:

      08:38pm | 26/11/09

      what I would like to know what affect jet liners have on the atmosphere in terms of static electricity discharge at all flight levels in our atmosphere. how does static interact with the atmosphere is ozone generated,  is heat a by product of the production of static electricity by all commercial and general aviation air craft what studies have been made to determine these possibilities and there affects.

    • M.MALCOM says:

      08:38pm | 26/11/09

      thank goodness we have some polititions who are willing to stand by their convictions in doing the best thing for their country. Let a new leader for the liberal party be formed tomorrow, and then get on getting rid of the labour party.  WE DON’t NEED THIS RUBBISH ON GLOBAL WARMING

    • AL GORE IS A FRAUD AND SO IS THE ETS says:

      08:39pm | 26/11/09

      Malcolm needs to go back to Goldman Sachs and pronto. He’s working for the benefit of the banksters anyway - he’s not even pretending to be working for the Australian people anymore. I mean seriously, how many Liberal politicians need to say the party room is AGAINST the ETS?  So we have Malcolm working for the international banksters and Rudd working to position himself in his new Asia Pacific Union via the UN. Great two egomaniacs who don’t give a stuff that this legislation is being slated all over the world as crap and country destroying. I don’t care who runs the Liberal party as long as this irreversible fraud of a TAX based on complete deception is defeated. NO ETS EVER.

    • jannie says:

      08:39pm | 26/11/09

      Oppose the ETS - it is a global communist/Zionist conspiracy to impose a new world order using fake science promoted by frauds who get government funding.


      Oh, damn….........I left out reptilian. Where is my tinfoil hat

    • jimmy g says:

      08:45pm | 26/11/09

      Johnny says:  08:57pm | 26/11/09   Thats the trouble Tony - this whinging rent-a-crowd like to pretend ETS is not curerent Liberal policy, that Honest John didnt take ETS to the 2007 election (claiming it would be “will be the most comprehensive ETS anywhere in the world”) or that Honest John also signed Kyoto in 1997 claiming it a “win for the environment and a win for Australian jobs”. Of course Minchin, Abbott, Tuckey etc all supported Howard, acting just like his suppository

      These dinosaurs are just a bunch of sleazy hypocrites

    • scio says:

      08:49pm | 26/11/09

      Abbott is just so credible - when he was younger he screwed around trying to decide if he should become a priest…........then he chucked that in because it was just too too hard…poor thing.

      It seems like he never grew up

    • Terry says:

      08:49pm | 26/11/09

      Your comment:To all the ETS non-believers—you will be glad to know the Flat Earth society has decided to re-invent itself. Membership will be free for all of you

    • D'Oh says:

      08:51pm | 26/11/09

      @Scio - all posts

      Sounds like someone has their head in the sand over the leaked CRU emails and data.  I would provide a link, but I know you won’t use it, you are more interested in your new religion and destroying our democracy and freedom through a false premise that is global warming - opps I mean climate change.

    • Jane says:

      08:56pm | 26/11/09

      Excuse me?...Hullo? Scio? Steve?....point me to where I have mentioned ‘climate change’? Oops, that’s right NOWHERE.

      Don’t automatically confuse or equate criticism of Rudd’s flawed SHAM ETS with denial of ‘climate change’. The ETS is a SHAM and a farce all on it’s own. Labor’s ETS will have ZERO impact on the environment…don’t fool yourselves that it in any way addresses or will impact on global ‘climate change’. AGW marketed as ‘climate change’ is a whole other bogus ball game to this ridiculous ETS. The ETS is a failure in it’s own right….believing or not in AGW climate change is immaterial to that fact.

      Best you stop parroting the tired ALP spoon fed ‘dinosaur deniers’ line and accept that both AGW deniers and AGW believers concur that Labor’s ETS is a farce and should not be passed.

    • Ensign Roy says:

      08:56pm | 26/11/09

      Malcom doesnt need those rebels anyway, he will stick it out because he knows best. He knows better than most people in parliament. Malcolm is smart enough to rule the LIberal party, the Australian nation or even the world. God he’s good! Go Malcolm.

    • steve says:

      09:05pm | 26/11/09

      I still wait for someone, anyone to commit to the statement that putting a tax on the Carbon in Dinky little Australia is going to affect the climate of the Globe? Anyone?

      Everything else is just noise and distraction. Glaciers melt in China in summer, there is a headline, the same way they did in the Medieval Warm Period? The hole in the Ozone layer Fixed? Except it is there every winter. Ozone is produced by the sun light and the 4 months of winter darkness knocks it about till the next summer.
      Statistically we are the highest per captor polluter on the globe, that is statistically correct however as far as the planet is concerned totally irrelevant.
      Statistically per Square Km of land we are the smallest polluter on the planet we live on an island the size of Europe with the population of Los Angeles. So why the Hype over the numbers?
      A requirement for Global warming is that the Globe actually warms, a little embarrassing when it all stopped 10 years ago.
      Sorry but the “settled Science” is looking more and more shaky, a fanatics wish list to justify huge Government funding.
      Why must we act this week, if the rest of the world is just going to ignore it all next week?
      Just imagine thousands of Government “hangers on” in Copenhagen in December talking Global warming, How cute, think of it, in Denmark in December freezing there balls off, having a talk fest on Global warming, I would have thought they would be praying for a bit of Global warming.

    • craig says:

      09:07pm | 26/11/09

      Rusted on consvertive voters will always vote lib/ nats, it is the 10 % in the centre that Malcolm is appealing to . If Malcolm doesnt prevail the swinging 10 % are lost for another 2 or 3 terms

    • David says:

      09:13pm | 26/11/09

      98% of the population does not understand ETS.  It is unacceptable that such a critical piece of legislation is passed without scrutiny, without consultation with the electorate, with out challange or investigation.  If the government passes this legislation, we have no choice but to petition the governer general to sack the government.  This is the most disgraceful failure of democracy that Australia has ever had.  This is not about climate change, this is about an unjust tax that will hurt Australian families.

    • john pasquarelli says:

      09:15pm | 26/11/09

      a fatwa has been issued against the Liberal Party and Malcolm Turnbull is the appointed suicide bomber!

    • Mark says:

      09:29pm | 26/11/09

      Peter M,  re: what china emits. 
      China 1.3 billion people that make Just about everything you wear and use.
      Australia has 0.02 billion people & emits allot of hot air.

    • Bretto says:

      09:32pm | 26/11/09

      James
      I find it extremely funny that you state that you are a moderate liberal that supports rational policy and therefore the rejection of the ETS.  Get back inside and learn something about your party then.  The pollies driving the “No ETS"agenda are all far right liberals: not a moderate in sight.  Minchin, Abbott, MIrabella, Andrews are not even close to being moderate - just ask Petro Giorgio!  Are you a wolf (far right) trying to dress in sheep’s (moderates) clothing?  You’re pretty funny.

    • Lloyd says:

      09:42pm | 26/11/09

      The Liberals are irrelevant Why can’t our media recognise that they didn’t win the last election and that we don’t care who leads them.

      Although it is good to see the back of Tony.

    • Tony says:

      09:42pm | 26/11/09

      Great stuff. Its called freedom of expression. About time we had pollies stand up and vote how they feel. The sooner we get rid off the “party” vote and go back to pollies working for us - the constituents, the better society will be.  If only the Labor party would let there members vote as individuals rather than as part of a communist party. As for the ETS - its just another way to get our taxes. Can 1 polly or scientist please guarantee to us that this is not just another big hoax like the Y2K was….No.

    • Craig says:

      09:46pm | 26/11/09

      “Most people who doubt the science also know that it makes sense to take out insurance” - That’s fine if you can afford the premiums, trouble is everyday Australians are already struggling with high cost of electricity, fuel and other basic necessities.  What will it take for politicians like Rudd and Turnbull to realise families are already doing it tough and can do without further imposts?  I suspect the minor parties including Family First and the independents will do very well at the next federal election with electors casting very loud protest votes over this.

    • Debra says:

      09:53pm | 26/11/09

      Clearly Malcolm Turnbull is the only liberal with a functional brain.
      All the other libs should get their heads out of wherever they are and LISTEN to the science and actually think about the earth not their own egos.

    • Carl says:

      10:01pm | 26/11/09

      It’s not about the Liberals winning and Turnbull becoming PM.  It’s about Turnbull’s mates Goldman Sachs becoming the biggest carbon traders on earth.

    • David Kilner says:

      10:17pm | 26/11/09

      It will be interesting to see what the voters make of all this at next month’s by-elections. Labor is no doubt regretting the decision not to fielf candidates.

    • N says:

      10:18pm | 26/11/09

      “this is about the future of our planet and the future of our children, and their children…” - Malcolm Turnbull @ 1910.
      This is the same inane crap that Comrade Krudd spouts. Apparently Malcolm has come under his spell as well.

      Read you history people. Mein Kampf makes continual references about leveraging societies concern for children to pass policy (no matter how it will affect the population). It’s an old idea and I suspect used long before Hitler penned it, but apparently still very effective today….

    • BB says:

      10:24pm | 26/11/09

      #


      #

        steve says:

        09:24pm | 26/11/09

        bob
        What about inland glaciers in China melting?

      It is completely normal for glaciers to shrink and grow .  Higher temperatures actually increase evaporation and snowfall increasing the size of glaciers. Lower temperatures reduce snowfall causing glaciers to shrink.

      China is seeking billions in compensation from the west so it is exaggerating climate damage. China has stated they have absolutely no intention of reducing their own emissions.

    • sean says:

      10:33pm | 26/11/09

      My bet $1000 AUD. Tony Abbott will be Liberal leader before Christmas. Put your money where your mouth are people.

      Turnball has dug is own grave, burried himself and put in concrete over it followed by sand and his own self written gravestone “I am the leader” RIP 28/11/2009

    • Adam says:

      10:45pm | 26/11/09

      Scio - “Reduced Himalayan glaciers has resulted in reduced run off , hence reduced hydro electricity.”

      What? melting glaciers is resulting in less run-off? Get a grip.

    • Heather Paszkowski says:

      10:50pm | 26/11/09

      I have waited for a long time to see Tony Abbott lead the Liberals.  The next best thing to Costello.  He will tear Krudd to shreds (thank god).  This ETS is the biggest crock of unproven crap.  Brings me back to the ugly 70’s under Whitlam.  Please Australia get smart.

    • Mr Pastry says:

      10:56pm | 26/11/09

      Call it ETS I’m against it.
      Call it SPSM “stop polluting so much” and I’m with it.

    • Matthew says:

      11:07pm | 26/11/09

      Darren says “we need more politicians with the fortitude of Tony Abbott to stand up for what is right for THIS country”.  Great reasoning there Darren.  Problem is, if every other country takes the same stand, we will get no where.  Is global warming real .. who knows, but let’s take some insurance on it aye ?

    • david smith says:

      11:12pm | 26/11/09

      How hard is it going to be to Find new employment when What’s Left of our Industries move of shore for a Better Life and no cronie government trying to put them out of business.

    • George says:

      11:37pm | 26/11/09

      It’s time for some new parties: no longer the ‘joined’ liberals and nationals, call it the new liberals, the old boys club and the queensland club.

    • George says:

      11:37pm | 26/11/09

      It’s time for some new parties: no longer the ‘joined’ liberals and nationals, call it the new liberals, the old boys club and the queensland club.

    • chris says:

      11:41pm | 26/11/09

      I hope Malcolm Turnbull doesn’t resign. He is in the right.

    • Jtc says:

      11:56pm | 26/11/09

      Don’t let the climate change deniers sway you, the ETS has nothing to do with helping the environment!
      The Greens have said that it is flawed beyond repair, and are voting against it.
      Some of the comments here are acting like its a legislated move to instantly remove all the excess CO2 out of the atmosphere, look at what it really promises, weak targets, large compensation to polluters etc.
      The only responsible thing to do for the environment is to vote NO to the ETS

    • Anton says:

      12:48am | 27/11/09

      Is Malcolm Turnbull an independant yet?

    • Brendan says:

      01:03am | 27/11/09

      Steve:
      If you don’t deny that man made climate change is real (most Australians believe that it is), the thinking that we shouldn’t do something because we are such a small country, and even more that this will result in “offshoring” jobs to places without an ETS (which is Tony Abbot’s line in his current Australian piece) should be looked at as analogous to other environmental regulation.

      Union Carbide moved their factories to countries with less stringent (non existent) environmental regulation after the first wave of environmental regulation in developed countries, and the Bhopal Disaster was just the most visible consequence.

      It is true that this time it isn’t a localised disaster, but a global disaster that we are trying to avoid, but surely that just makes it more important that action is taken.

      Australian jobs may be lost from polluting industries, but as others have pointed out, Australia can benefit from innovation (not to mention export opportunities from the uptake of the very low carbon emitting nuclear power).

    • Brendan says:

      01:09am | 27/11/09

      On Turnbull vs Abbot - Rudd realised that he didn’t need to be a diametrically opposite person to Howard to win the last election, he just needed to be a tiny bit to Howard’s left.  Rudd picked up all the left wing votes, and a lot of the centrist and even progressive right wing votes.  The Liberal party really has nowhere to go - you can’t “appeal to your base” like the Republicans in the US are trying to do, because with compulsary preferential voting, you know that most people are going to turn up and pick a side anyway - the “base” turns up and votes for you, so it comes down to picking up the independant / swinging voters.

      Turnbull seems to be willing to cross over Rudd and take the centre, while still appealing to the conservative side of the country (at least more than Rudd does).  Abbot on the other hand would bring a very conservative, right wing slant to the party, which backs the Liberals into the same corner that Howard couldn’t fight his way out of.  Turnbull might win or it might backfire, but surely Abbot can’t win from way over to the right of where most Australians are now.

    • Graham says:

      01:13am | 27/11/09

      Jason, I would really enjoy having a beer with you, I reckon you would be great entertainment ! (You are 18yo??).
      And to answer you question - they become shark s**t - the cycle of life is an amazing thing.
      Plus can you send me your email, so I can have another laugh in twenty years?

    • Keith says:

      06:41am | 27/11/09

      Abbott only wants to delay the ETS until after Copenhagen. Turnbull is saying we must act on climate change now. Abbott agrees with that, but thinks it is a rush job which it is, all because of Rudds vanity. But Abbott also aligns himself with Minichin and others now who don’t believe in climate cahnge at all. Talk about a bob each way.

    • scio says:

      06:41am | 27/11/09

      “What? melting glaciers is resulting in less run-off? Get a grip.”  Adam says:

      11:45pm | 26/11/09


      No , dimwit - I said reduced , not melting. There is reduced glaciation in Himalaya leading to less run off

    • steve says:

      06:45am | 27/11/09

      Brendan man get some sleep hell, 2:00 am.
      I would agree that Union Carbide and Dow were thugs and vandals
      I do not deny Global Climate changes
      I question the LEVEL of man’s influence
      Prof Richard Lindzen’s MIT paper on Atmospherics showed the green house gas Thermal balance has remained largely unchanged for 20 years of steady co2 rise. If co2 had such a huge influence on the temperature then the thermal balance would show it but the heat retention is not there. That is why there has been no temperature rise for the last 10 years. A sea level risees of 17mm last century.

      Again I set the challenge to ANYONE make a commitment that a Carbon Tax In dinky little Australia is going to reduce the temperature of the Planet. NO one believes this, not even the most rabid alarmist believes that this tax is going to have any effect on the temperature. If it is not going to work and the rest of the world is going to ignore it why the rush? Why does it have to be this week apart from the ego of our beloved leader? It will pull $120 Bill out of the Australian economy and give it to trading brokers and the UN who will give a bit to LDN to buy arms for non existent armies.

      Brendan the world is starting to wake up to the AGW fraud.
      Keating said never get between a Politician and a bucket of money.
      That is what this is about it has nothing to do with the planet or climate it is all about money.

    • scio says:

      06:48am | 27/11/09

      BB says:    11:24pm | 26/11/09

        ““China is seeking billions in compensation from the west so it is exaggerating climate damage. “”

            China is seeking no compensatrion at all


        “China has stated they have absolutely no intention of reducing their own emissions.”

        Another lie - read my first post. China has announced emission reductions of 45% cf 2005 , by 2020

    • Rob says:

      07:43am | 27/11/09

      Welcome to Liberal Oblivion!

    • steve says:

      07:47am | 27/11/09

      Scio
      You got to stop getting your information from WWWF websites
      Have you been to China? I have a number of times.
      They are building a city the size of Melbourne every 6 months
      A new COAL fired power station brought on line every 10 days
      When I first went to Beijing there were millions of little people on bicycles and cars were owned by the Government. Last trip there are still bikes for the poor, but there are 6 lane freeways full of carsdriven by their ever growing middle class. And you can not see a city block for the crap in the air. They shut the city for months before the Olympics so the world would not notice the state of air pollution.
      The densest human population in the world is on HK
      They now worship business and money
      They are now the world’s largest polluter
      They can announce 45% reduction by 2020
      They could also announce that the earth is flat and the sun rises in the west, black is white and gravity is a myth. All statements just as true as 45% reduction

      Oh and by the way China is classed a developing country because of the level of poverty and will receive part of the UN “climate Debt” payments
      0.7% of the developed world GDP to be negotiated at Copenhagen.
      Madness.

    • Peter says:

      07:49am | 27/11/09

      Global warming was with us 1000 years ago since coming out of the ice age - before we dug coal and oil from the ground - we might be making it worse by burning coal and oil but if we stop use of all coal and oil we WILL NOT STOP GLOBAL WARMING - we have to realise this and make plans - but coal and oil are finite resources and we need alternatives - Why can’t the truth be told - why always lies and propoganda

    • DG says:

      08:15am | 27/11/09

      @Sarah (07:56pm | 26/11/09)

      I’m not sure whether to laugh or cry. In a democracy we don’t have every person vote on every issue, not even on big issues. The ONLY time that everyone votes on legislation is in a proposed change to the Constitution. The system would be completely unworkable if every person had to vote every time a tricky issue came up.

      @Adam (11:45pm | 26/11/09)

      Umm, yes. The bigger the glacier the bigger the runoff, that’s how these things work. As the glacier is smaller and smaller each year, the runoff is less and less each year. ie. where the runoff in the summer exceeds the growth in the winter the glacier shrinks - hence less run-off.

      ———————————————-

      I’m still not convinced that this is about saving the environment at all. I still feel that this is about forcing innovation in new areas - that are less dependent on non-renewable power sources.

      By allowing exemptions for polluters one is countering the purpose - i.e the polluters are not being forced to change they are being forced to pay to keep doing things the same old way.

      I wonder if any one has realised that it takes a lot less staff to operate a wind farm than to operate a coal fired power plant - THIS is the reason that we are exempting the major polluters. To keep jobs.

    • John A Neve says:

      08:36am | 27/11/09

      Norman @ 0625hrs.

      You must be joking; “our democracy” is at it’s lowest ebb,  “our individual rights and freedoms”, have been reduced and our “justice system” has become a joke.

      Please tell me I’m wrong Norman.

    • Joe Stephens says:

      08:38am | 27/11/09

      @Peter.. we came out of the ice age 1000 years ago? Alot of people make up facts here on both sides of the fence, but you my friend take the cake.

    • DG says:

      08:52am | 27/11/09

      @Joe Stephens.

      I think he should have said 10,00 years and said ‘glacial period’. being as many scientists argue that we are currently in an ice age, on account of the fact that there are still ice sheets over Greenland and Antarctica. But then again maybe he does believe that we left the ice age 1000 years ago….

    • AM says:

      09:43am | 27/11/09

      Malcolm stare them all down. This is not the Conervative party, it is the Liberal Party…. it is progressive party…. not a “do nothing party”.  Keep at it.

    • Wee Willy Winky says:

      10:02am | 27/11/09

      hahaha the stupid liberal party is still debating how they can deal with climate change. (fools ). On the other hand the ALP are all sorted and are moving as one party under one leader. The ETS wont work but thats not the point, it has divided the Coalition and given the ALP the next election and perhaps the one after that as well. Well done Mr Rudd a great piece of political manovering.

    • Rowdy says:

      10:39am | 27/11/09

      We will each pay thousands in extra TAX each year under the ETS, handed over to other countries and to big polluters yet as wee willy winky says “...The ETS won’t work, but thats not the point…....” ROFLMAO!!!!!! Typical mindset of a labor voter!!! wee willy indeed!!!

    • steve says:

      11:15am | 27/11/09

      Wee Willy? Perhaps a comment of self description? The reason there are no ALP voices of descent ever against anything is they is they are not allowed to deviate from the speeches of the beloved leader. If they were to come out and say what they thought about the ETS they would loose pre-selection. Do you think there are ALP members with the same concerns over this shambles? Do you think the emails were only going to the Libs in parliament? To the cameras they look stern and resolute doing the nod’s in agreement, back in their office they are thinking “Oh Sh*t where are we going”

    • Unimpressed says:

      11:28am | 27/11/09

      Who on earth started this total bs about $000’s in extra tax each year? Where did they dream up that fantasy?

      They repeat it without ever showing where they got it. Why? Because it s simply bs. Total, 100%, uncapped, untradeable bs.

    • Mark Waters says:

      11:33am | 27/11/09

      Jason, the oceans are not rising. The small population that lives on coral cays in the pacific has always had to move to another cay when one disappears. The thing with coral cays is when the bar moves over and forms an Island the substructure dies leaving it open to erosion if enough plant life is formed the Island will stay together, sometime for thousands of years, sometimes just a few. Its nature, it happened before humanity and will continue to happen after.

    • Jay Jay says:

      11:37am | 27/11/09

      I agree the extra Tax will result in most likely $100 a week not the BS $100 a month. Thanks Unimpressed for clearing that BS up.

    • Unimpressed says:

      12:11pm | 27/11/09

      JJ goes for the matching set. Moore untraceable bs!

    • steve says:

      12:16pm | 27/11/09

      Hey Unimpressed, the dollar value is BS? Where did the figures come?
      From the Treasury mate.
      The Governments own papers say “Staring at $1,100 per family pa” and that is just what they can count, a treasury projection. The last time a treasury projection was correct they counted money in shillings.
      British Columbia, Canada brought in a state based cap and trade bill October last year they calculated it would add 0.04c to the price of fuel, petrol went up 24c in 6 months and consumption went up as well. These cap and trade systems do not work the populace just bear the cost and the employment goes down. Look at Spain 20% unemployment

    • thatmosis says:

      12:56pm | 27/11/09

      The reality of the whole thing is that Krudd couldnt get the GST increased so he’s hit on a way to to extract as much money as possible from the tax payer without doing anything . This ETS is a psuedo GST without the checks and balances that the GST has. Everything will be hit with increases if this new Tax is implemented without making one iota of difference to the amount of CO2 being pumped into the air. Malcolm Turnbull has fallen for the old 3 card trick and has sucessfully destroyed any chance they may have had at the next election and unfortunately the one after that. His Chicken Little mentality along with that of the Labor brain dead beggers belief as the facts dont back the science. Spin is not science but in Australia seems it to substitute quite well. Another thing, where is all the money coming from in the interim to pay the companies for cutting emisssions, China perhaps, more debt from an already debt ridden Government????

    • Unimpressed says:

      01:46pm | 27/11/09

      Ah. The Treasury estimates. At last, then, some form of truth, however outdated and however imprecisely sourced. So no wonder the quite spurious claims of “$000’s” a year were unrecognisable.

      The debate and scheme have moved on some way from those earlier estimates - as it was bound to do given the negotiated changes to the scheme.

      It’s no good slinging off about the data just because it is complex and evolving - such things always (if the full reference is checked)  depend on changing factors, such as the agreed price per tonne for permits and the state of the $A.

      So what is the best estimate now, on the changes now agreed? The average cost of living increase per household is now estimated to be $624 per year or just $12 per week - and that from 2012. Not the unsourced and spurious $000s repeatedly claimed by the lazy, misleading posters of the far right.

      Not only that: all low income households will be fully compensated for those costs, as will 50% of middle income households.

      “A family earning $100,000 (with a 50:50 income split) with two children (aged 10 and 13) would be more than fully compensated. In 2012-13, this family will receive $1014 in assistance from the Government even though the cost impact of the CPRS would be $976 for the year.

      A family earning $120,000 (with a 50:50 income split) with three children (aged 4, 6 and 8) will also receive full assistance. The cost impact of the CPRS for this family in 2012-13 will be $1088, and they will receive $1240 in assistance for the year.”

      And it is NOT a tax. It is a carbon permit, free up to a cap, priceed above the cap, permit trading scheme. If you cna make your indusytry efficient, the costs will be small.

      Nor is it “only” 5%. Total myth. Its an unconditional target of 5 per cent; a conditional target of up to 15 per cent and top-end target of 25 per cent off 2000 levels by 2020 if a global 450 parts per million outcome is achieved.

      ETS changes as agreed by Liberal and Labor:
      http://www.climatechange.gov.au/~/media/publications/cprs/CPRS_ESAS/091124 Details_proposed_CPRS_changes.ashx

      ETS costs
      http://www.climatechange.gov.au/minister/wong/2009/media-releases/November/mr20091125.aspx

      Middle income families assistance
      http://www.climatechange.gov.au/~/media/Files/minister/wong/2009/media-releases/November/mr20091125.ashx

      Facts. Checkable, sourced. Now suck it up. And just button it on the “$000s” bs.

    • glen says:

      02:33pm | 27/11/09

      Well, Little Krudd was running about at the lodge
      , where he had no business to
      be : he ran out into the sun and got an awfully hot
      head ; so he was dreadfully frightened, and ran away
      to Henny Penny Wong.

      ” O Hen Pen,” said he, ” its really really hot …the climate is a changing ! ”
      Why, Little Krudd, how do you know it ? ”
      ” O, I heard it with my ears, I saw it with my eyes,
      and I have got an awfully hot head .” ” Come, then,” says
      Hen Pen, ” let us run and arrange an ETS as fast as we can.”

      So they ran till they came to Duck Face Gilllard. ” O
      Ducky,” says Hen Pen, ” its really really hot …the climate is a changing ! “
      ” Why, how do you know it ? ” says Duck Gill.
      Little Krudd told me.” ” Little Krudd, how
      do you know it ? ” “I heard it with my ears, I
      saw it with my eyes, and I have got an awfully hot head ”
      ” O, let us hurry with that ETS ! ” says Duck Gill.

      And they went on till they came to Goosey Garratt.
      ” O Goosey Garratt ! ” says Duck Gill, ” its really really really hot …the climate is a changing ! ” Why, Duck Gill,” says Goosey Garratt,
      ” how do you know it ? ” Says Duck Gill, ” Hen
      Pen told me.” ” Hen Pen, how do you know it ? ”
      ” Little Krudd told me.” ” Little Krudd, how
      do you know it ? ” ” O, I heard it with my ears, I
      saw it with my eyes, and I have got an awfully hot head “
      Run, run ! as fast as you can save us with that ETS,” says Goosey Garratt*

      And they went on till they came to Barrack Bear
      ” O Barrack Bear ! ”  ” says Goosey Garratt, ” its really really really really hot …the climate is a changing ! “
      ” Why, Goosey Garratt, how do you know it ? ”
      ” Says Goosey Garratt, “Duck Gill told me.”
      Duck Gill,” says Barrack Bear,
      ” how do you know it ? ” Says Duck Gill, ” Hen
      Pen told me.” ” Hen Pen, how do you know it ? ”
      ” Little Krudd told me.” ” Little Krudd, how
      do you know it ? ” ” O, I heard it with my ears, I
      saw it with my eyes, and I have got an extremely hot head .”
      ” Make haste ! ” says Barrack Bear,
      ” and all come to Copenhagen ”

      Barrack Bear opened the door to Copenhagen,
      and in went Goosey Garratt As he went in,
      Barrack Bear bit off his head, threw it one way, and the body another.
      Then went in Duck Gill.
      As she went in, Barrack Bear bit off her
      head, threw it one way, and the body another.
      Then went in Hen Pen. Barrack Bear cut off her
      head, and threw her in. Then came Little Krudd.
      Barrack Bear caught hold of him, and ate him
      all up, and then finished his supper with the tasty ETS,
      and all this from the foolish haste of Krudd.

      A classic tale of woe.

    • vicki says:

      02:51pm | 27/11/09

      The only way to comprehend the bizarre machinations going on in the Liberal Party is to read Peter Hartcher’s recent interview of Brendan Nelson in the Sydney Morning Herald. He is convinced Turnbull suffers from a personality disorder that shuts him off from appreciating another’s position - in other words, he lacks empathy. Those who have experience with people afflicted with such a disorder will have experienced, like Nelson, the scathing personal criticisms of these people. It has to be experienced to be believed because, in all other circumstances, they exude enormous charm. Such a person may initially power his way into political circles - but he will never lead successfully - for he is not a team player. An ordinary narcissist can disguise his contempt, but those with an actual personality disorder, will find this ultimately impossible.

    • For shame says:

      03:26pm | 27/11/09

      Tell you what, as far as exuding charm goes, Minchin don’t, Abetz can’t, and Andrews won’t. Chilly berks, to a man.

      Hockey may, but prick him and he’d deflate. As for Abbott, it seems that long ago he did (at least twice!), but today if you listen you can hear the women of Australia walking calmly with set faces away from the Liberal Party as we speak.

      This week we have witnessed a fundamental betrayal of the electorate, in an act of base dishonesty in parliament, for personal prejudice, personal spite and personal gain, from that Liberal Party that once had the hide to lecture and hector us about “Australian Values” and “Family Values”.

      Faugh! You can smell the stinking carcase from here!.

    • robyn fraser says:

      03:45pm | 27/11/09

      Do hope Nick Minchin, et al go down the tube (forever).  What a bunch of disloyal people.  Talk about smiling assasins.  No matter who wins if Malcolm is dislodged as Leader of the Opposition, the band of people wielding the cut-throat razor will then be down on the floor wrestling for the same razor for another cut and gut operation.  And we pay for these people who have been prancing up and down the hallways of power and have still not made any sense at all, let alone some final decision - after how long??

    • marganne247 says:

      07:32pm | 27/11/09

      Regardless of Malcolm Turnbull’s belief in the ETS, it not his role to endorse the Labour Party’s policies.  Meg Lees did this with the GST and she is no more. She not only brought herself down, she destroyed the Democrats.  The way Turnbull is behaving the Liberal Party could find itself in exactly the same position. No wonder that smug KRudd is grinning ear to ear as he flys off yet again. Maybe he going to Christmas Island to welcome yet another boatload of his future supporters.

    • Gutfull says:

      08:10pm | 27/11/09

      The ETS was never ever in the present time designed to make a significant change to the environment. It was designed to weild a big stick to force corporations/companies to invest in renewable technologies. You cannot bring change by simply asking corporations to. You have to penalise.
      Over time, with gradual reductions & new technologies we will see a drastic change in the way we produce, manufacture etc…....and a dramatic drop in our emmissions.
      Turnbull’s description is apt. Risk Management.
      If you disagree with the principle of the ETS then surely you don’t believe in house & contents, car, income insurance.
      Turnbull is the only one in the Coalition making any sense. They had already commenced legislation of their ETS scheme prior to the 2007.
      Howard just two weeks ago commented that Rudd’s ETS is very similar to the Coalitions.
      This is all about obstructionism & nothing more. If you think this is about concern for the supporter base you are truly deluded.

    • davidturnedge says:

      09:13pm | 27/11/09

      No, imposing a carbon tax doesn’t reduce carbon emissions.

      But the market moving to low carbon emitting products and services (because they are taxed less) will.

      The ETS is a mechanism to create a market for low carbon emissions by taxing carbon emissions. Choose to lower your carbon emissions and you will reduce your tax.

    • Dallas Beaufort says:

      12:09am | 28/11/09

      Get up and Co are working over time on this one, why question the $$ when it is all about the cop, churn, commissions, slings and siphoning, boys and girls?

    • Drew (Darlinghurst) says:

      05:53am | 28/11/09

      BRING IT ON .......Joe Hockey as the new Liberal Leader…um…er.. wasnt he the Work Place Relations Minister in the HOWARD GOVT advocating the destruction of working Australians wages???? ie “workchoices”

      Thanks ,but no thanks Joe.

      ahhhh I feel another LABOR LANDSLIDE ELECTION VICTORY .


      p.s As former Labor PM Bob Hawke once said “if you cant govern your party how the hell can you govern a country”

      LABOR 1     LIB/NATS O

    • Angry Voter says:

      06:14am | 28/11/09

      Marganne, an ETS is Liberal Party policy and has been since before 2007. You already voted on it.

      You had your say, you far right hysterics, in the election.  There is a small, organised group running a high volume campaign against its own MPs.

      They are trying to bring down democracy by fear and ignorance. Pigs.

      The tide on here and in MPs email isn’t democracy at work, it is the opposite. It is a vile trick.

    • Max says:

      07:57am | 28/11/09

      Far from the CPRS being something Rudd can strut on the Copenhagen stage, foreigners are literally laughing at the political naivety of our nation expending so much political blood and treasure on this before the real global players have even come to the table. Far from decreasing Rudd’s leverage at Copenhagen, non-passage of the Australian ETS now would increase his ability to show the real global leaders how important it is that they take action to ensure that mankind’s footprint on the earth is minimised so that the rest of the world can fall into line.

    • Janet Barrett says:

      01:15pm | 28/11/09

      Joe Hockey to lead the Libs = good choice. Very good!

      Tony ‘um - er - um - ah - um’ Abbott cannot string two words together coherently - what a disaster if he was ever in a situation negotiating with world leaders on behalf of Australia.
      Tony Abbott = bad choice. Very bad.

    • Juju says:

      02:40pm | 28/11/09

      jack sparrow says:09:38pm | 26/11/09says ‘what I would like to know what affect jet liners have on the atmosphere in terms of static electricity discharge at all flight levels in our atmosphere.’ ** Everyone worries about aircraft polluting, but they forget about the huge number of ships, particularly cargo ships, that run on filthy unrefined oil. They cause a huge amount of pollution but because nobody sees them, they get away with it.

    • orangecrush says:

      03:22pm | 29/11/09

      It’s embarrassing that CHOGM is right now taking further action on Climate Change, and other governments are pledging to assist developing nations reduce their emissions, while back in Australia the Christian Right of Australian politics is trusting in prayer.  Nick, Tony and Kevin -  how many scientific papers from climatologists (no, not jounalists like Monckton)  would you need to hear from before you believe ‘the science’?  Oh, that’s right, Tony already did believe the science, he’s just changed his mind because he sees an opportunity for self-advancement.

    • Rickster says:

      06:20pm | 30/11/09

      As I see it, Hockey and Turnbull both support an ETS. Abbott doesn’t, well at least not in its current format.

      That said, both Hockey and Turnbull can exit stage left and get the hell out of politics.

      I hear Al Whores Church of Climatology is looking for new members.

    • Steve says:

      04:23pm | 01/12/09

      Hawkey has been wheeled out to attack Tony Abbott. And Abbott has already replied in kind saying “they have to. Rudd is never here”.

    • Rohan says:

      04:27pm | 01/12/09

      What is it with those people having a hate session on mad monk USING CAPS sporadically. We get it, you don’t like the monk. NO NEED FOR THESE THOUGH.

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