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Little brother’s Big Brother law dumps the local surf club

Steven Ciobo

by Steven Ciobo

05 Oct 05:45am

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Filed under: Economics, Gambling, Government, Ian Swan, Pokies, Politics, Wayne Swan

43 comments

Christmas is going to be awkward at the Swans’ this year.

The Swans go for a paddle near their local surf club. Pic: John Grainger

And it won’t be an inappropriate gift causing the tension and a possible barney.

It’ll be Labor’s mandatory pre-commitment policy for poker machines.

Under Labor’s Big Brother scheme pubs and clubs will have to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars upgrading or replacing their poker machines to comply with the onerous regulations.

The problem for Treasurer Wayne Swan is that his brother Ian sits on the board of the Coolum Beach Surf Lifesaving Club and is a life member. And Ian’s wife, Sharleen, is the club’s surf sports officer.

The club has 48 poker machines so upgrading or replacing them won’t be cheap.

Clubs Australia predicts it’ll cost $720,000. That’s $720,000 that won’t be spent on surf lifesaving equipment such as rescue boats, boards and tubes.

And Ian is not happy.

“This will have a huge impact on small clubs like surf clubs. It has the potential to wreck everything,” he told The Daily Telegraph.

It’s the same story up and down the Queensland coast.

Surf clubs have been blind-sided by Labor’s latest intrusion into our lives and will struggle with the excessive installation costs of their pokie policy.

Then there’ll be the drop in revenue as recreation gamblers stop playing because being photographed, listed on a Government database and remembering to carry the card (license) they’ll be issued is too much effort for the many who simply enjoy a game after a meal.

The money made in surf clubs goes into their lifesaving efforts on the beach. So when the money stops coming into the clubs, it’s their surf lifesaving efforts that suffer.

Wayne Swan grew up as a clubbie so he knows this. When he opened Coolum’s clubhouse extensions in 2009 he said some of the best times of his life had been in surf lifesaving.

Swan also knows the vital work volunteer surf lifesavers do. For those who don’t, they saved 9,420 people last season.

So why is he supporting a policy that is going to strip funds from clubs and put beachgoers at risk?

If he sticks to the Labor script Swan will say it’s to help problem gamblers.

However the reality is Labor’s policy will do anything but that.

Who really thinks giving problem gamblers gaming cards, where they get to set their own limit, is going to stop, let alone help them?

The problem gamblers certainly don’t. They say nothing will stop them – which is why more counseling services are needed to treat the underlying issues that cause problem gambling. 

“No-one can stop till they are ready,” self-confessed addict Stephen Menadue told the Joint Select Committee on Gambling Reform.

The experts don’t think mandatory pre-commitment will work either, some believe it may even cause problem gamblers to lose more.

“There is some evidence that pre-commitment levels will actually increase gambling for problem gamblers,” Dr Sally Gainsbury, a postdoctoral research fellow at the Centre for Gambling Education and Research at Southern Cross University, told the Committee.

Even Swan’s Labor colleagues can see straight through the policy.

“Imposing mandatory or even rapid voluntary pre-commitment on these clubs would send them broke and not do one thing about eliminating problem gambling,” said Queensland Attorney General Paul Lucas.

If Swan can’t take the advice of the addicts, experts, his colleagues, and even his brother surely he can get out his calculator and do the numbers to see how financially crippling Labor’s pokie policy is going to be for surf clubs.

After all, isn’t he supposed to be the world’s best treasurer?

Most commented

43 comments

Show oldest | newest first

    • Gratuitous Adviser says:

      05:14am | 05/10/11

      You are right, there is only one answer.  Ban all machines that feed more than $1/hit/20 secs and see what happens (that $180/hr max-Surely that’s enough for Eddie).  At least the problem gamblers will lose their house and their life a bit slower, but Eddie might be a bit happier and that’s important for some.

      Reply

    • Ken says:

      01:08pm | 05/10/11

      Lets just have max payouts on non-precommitment machines of $100.

      That will make them less attractive to problem gamblers.

    • glen says:

      02:26pm | 05/10/11

      I have the answer, simply ask people if they are problem gamblers and if are ban them from all social clubs.  We should then start to look at problem smokers, they die early and can leave children as orphans, better ban smoking. Drinking too much? well alcoholics need to be dealt with, lets have an alcohol register where you need to nominate how much you intend to drink before you are allowed to head out for the night. Fatty food causes heart disease, if you exceed you fast food quota for the year you will be fined and publcally chastised. People die in car crashes all the time, speed controllers should be fitted to all vehicles…... and so the downward spiral begins, individual freedom disappears.

    • Against the Man says:

      05:55am | 05/10/11

      More ALP BS. Worst government ever.

      Gillard and co are historical political idiots.

      What a debacle and shambles this government is, oh remember the asylum seeker issue? Solve that yet ‘Carbon Tax Liar’ Gillard ? smile

      ps: Looks like the Qantas union have resorted to ALP style to get their bosses to change their minds.

      Reply

    • Steve Putnam says:

      07:04pm | 05/10/11

      So you don’t think gambling is a problem at all? You’re an even bigger idiot than I thought.

    • Against the Man says:

      07:42pm | 05/10/11

      Oh Steve, you think calling me an idiot helps your cause?

      Time to grow up and wake up to reality man…..........I’m winning this game if you haven’t noticed smile

      ps: If you haven’t noticed the health care debacle, I mean the zero result and the billion dollar waste, yes I said billion!, you need to wake up big time. I’m lovin this easy streak…...............knowledge is power fools!

    • Steve Putnam says:

      05:45am | 06/10/11

      @ AtM Have you posted any comments about the $1.4 billion the Howard Government wasted on the Seasprite Helicopter fiasco or do you only bang the one drum? You think those cretinous smiley face icons you’re so fond of lend weight to your argument? Yes, knowledge is power. You should try and get some.

    • Super D says:

      05:57am | 05/10/11

      Problem pokie gambling is about the easiest problem to solve.  Just get rid of the note feeders.  Go back to 20c pieces.  If someone wasnts to spend a minute feeding in enough coins to have a $5 spin then thats their business.  The ability to slide a $50 note into a pokie isn’t a human right.

      Reply

    • Chris_D says:

      09:03am | 05/10/11

      Spot on Super D.  Sometimes the simplest solution is the best.

    • Chris_D says:

      09:05am | 05/10/11

      And I should just point out that all they need to do is disable the note acceptor, which is already written into the software, and then punters can only use coins ie. $1 coin at a time.

      Cheap, easy, simple.

    • Rocksteady says:

      06:18am | 05/10/11

      Is the author implying we should just legalise heroin, charge a fortune and pay for cheap social programs with the bumper profits?
      If a drug dealer gave 2.5% of his profits to charity do you think the courts should give a lighter sentence?
      What the clubs australia / liberal party liason has conveniently not mentioned is that WA surf clubs survive perfectly fine without pokies.

      Reply

    • Matt says:

      06:26am | 05/10/11

      Steve, if you’d bothered to do your research, you’d find that the Coolum Beach Surf Lifesaving Club does not have poker machines.

      There is a separate “supporters” club, which funds the SLSC. The Swans do not sit in this club, and have no involvement with poker machines.

      But that wouldn’t fit your tidy little narrative about big brother.

      Other facts you’ve gotten wrong - it’s generally accepted that it’s going to cost about $1000 per machine to install pre-commitment technology. Coolum has 48 machines. So, $48,000. Even if you take the most hysterical figure being put about by the Clubs, it’s still only $480,000. But again, that wouldn’t fit your narrative, would it.

      In any case, it’s good to see you supporting problem gambling.

      I look forward to your support for Big Tobacco, removing seat belts on cars, letting kids sit in the front seat without restraint and bringing back semi-automatic weapons.

      Reply

    • Nathan says:

      06:42am | 05/10/11

      This is the first step of getting rid of the things altogether. You can talk all you want about where the money goes although i am doubtful about where clubs spend their money but clubs around the world survive without them. Its time for them to go

      Reply

    • Arnold says:

      07:18am | 05/10/11

      Very educated comment, Nathan.  How about you get on the board at your local club and see where the money goes, then pass comments stating that it is time to go.

      I hope you’re not a sport fan either, Nathan.  Your local not for profit club will also feel the pinch from this symbolic gesture, as sponsorship funds dry up for these organisations too.  Where do you think most of these clubs get their funds from? (No, they don’t own their own pokies). But I guess it’s time for them to go too?

    • Mahhrat says:

      10:26am | 05/10/11

      @Arnold, absolute horseshit, and you know it.

      I’m a proud and paid up member of my local sporting club.  We’re amongst the least affluent in our competition.  We came third in men’s seniors and reserves, and second in the women’s.

      We do just fine without poker machines mate.  I suggest if your club needs them to survive, you need a new board.

    • Leanne says:

      06:56am | 05/10/11

      48 machines in a surf club? I remember when there were no pokies in Qld at all - not that long ago. We still had surf clubs. Guess I’ll think twice when asked to donate or buy a raffle ticket - they obviously don’t need my money then!

      Reply

    • Chris_D says:

      09:11am | 05/10/11

      Correct Leanne.  The author suggests that all this gaming profit is being poured back into surf lifesaving, but I am Gold Coast born and bred, and my father is an old-boy at one of the biggest clubs on the Goldy.  All the big pokie SLSC’s have been pouring their money into renovations and club expansion, but the actual surf lifesaving equipment hasn’t changed all that much, and I still see the surf life saving members out there with their donation buckets asking for money.  Shouldn’t they be on the beach keeping swimmers safe?

    • Sound of White Noise says:

      07:20am | 05/10/11

      ...written and authorised by your local pokie venue…

      and if there is, as you say, “evidence that pre-commitment will actually increase gambling” - why the hell aren’t the leeches jumping for joy that it is being introduced?

      I’ll tell you why. There is but one reason - it. will. reduce. losses. Therefore it is good. You can judge the goodness of a poker machine regulation by the squealing it generates from the industry - louder = better.

      If it was going to increase gaming losses and boost revenue, the clubs wouldn’t give 2 damns about the initial capital outlay in upgrading their machines. They’d be buying more and upgrading them as well..
      For mine, the pre-commitment isn’t even remotely enough. They should also make all machines pay out in cash, or, if they’re only going to give vouchers out then you should only be able to put vouchers in.

      And besides… since when was it a fundamental obligation of surf clubs to be poker machine venues? I joined my local clubbies to try and score chicks, not try and score a free spin.

      Reply

    • Mahhrat says:

      07:25am | 05/10/11

      Yep, and it’s all fantastic.  Thank you Andrew Wilkie for having a platform, sticking to your guns, getting elected on it and then doing something about it.

      We need more politicians with his honesty.

      Pokies belong in a casino, not where I want to take my kid for dinner.  The “normalising” of gambling in this country is obscene.

      Reply

    • Shonica says:

      04:24am | 15/10/11

      Kids need to know pokies are rigged.

    • Kipling says:

      07:25am | 05/10/11

      So is this article about problem gambling, efforts to address this significant social problem or how tough it is for surf clubs?
      If it is about problem gambling and/or efforts to address this problem you totally failed to offer any alternative solutions, so why all the fuss. If you have no answers it might be wise to stop white anting. Oh I realise it is just politics though. It is not without irony that I notice that clubs faced with some added costs in order to keep profiteering from gambling also make no effort to address the problem side of gambling. I notice too that the money given to various groups from the profits generally do not include the large group of families and, in particular the children of said problem gamblers.
      Of course, if you are talking just about surf clubs there are a few things you may need to consider as well. The Central Coast has two new surf clubs being built using money from the Federal Government and some from local Government. Neither club has been particularly well built and, in fact, one is still unfinished some seven months behind schedule, yet you worry about one surf clubs poker machine costs… Even worse, when the only one of these two clubs completed was opened, the local Mayor (whose council provided minimum finances) did the opening and did not bother to invite any Federal Government representatives but his opposition mates.
      Yet you write about how bad this plan is to address problem gambling.
      The governments plan may be flawed, I for one am not a gambler (well apart from the occassional lotto entry) so do not know what impact there will be. I am fairly sure it won’t be the ends of the earth, I am also fairly convinced by the “I didn’t vote for a Gambling licence” and the sad strawman “it’s unAustralian” lines are trite and meaningless. The point though is that the only reason the Government has to try to implement any change is because no one else has ever bothered. Clubs and Pubs have basically made easy money from gambling (both casual and problematic) for a long time without lifting a finger to address a significant and growing social problem so it is left to the Government.
      This Government is having a go, yet you, in opposition can only lambast.

      Reply

    • Mick S says:

      07:34am | 05/10/11

      A short history lesson.
      Poker machines were legalised in NSW in 1956.
      Rugby league commenced in NSW in 1908.
      The RSL was formed in 1916.
      Surf Lifesaving Clubs were formed in (arguably) 1907.
      The Victorian Football League was established in 1896.
      Somehow, all the clubs managed to survive without poker machines.
      Probably a moral there somewhere.

      Reply

    • Mick S says:

      07:36am | 05/10/11

      A short history lesson.
      Poker machines were legalised in NSW in 1956.
      Rugby league commenced in NSW in 1908.
      The RSL was formed in 1916.
      Surf Lifesaving Clubs were formed in (arguably) 1907.
      The Victorian Football League was established in 1896.
      Somehow, all the clubs managed to survive without poker machines.
      Probably a moral there somewhere.

      Reply

    • MarkS says:

      07:44am | 05/10/11

      Problem Gamblers are like drug addicts, they cannot help themselves & their families suffer.

      Steve you are a man who promotes and defends gambling pushers that rely on destroying the lives of addicts and their families. Do you take money from Big Tobacco & the mafia to promote and defend them as well? 

      If the pushers are so convinced that it will not work, why the huge media campaign. After all if the addicts are going to gamble more than they should be jumping on board & pushing this along, not opposing it. I think they doth protest too much.

      Reply

    • jg says:

      07:44am | 05/10/11

      I hate pokies. They’ve pretty much destroyed the live music scene and they turn people into mindless zombies who sit around all night plugging coins into them.

      Get rid of them.

      Reply

    • Steve Putnam says:

      07:22pm | 05/10/11

      Couldn’t agree more. The pub rock scene in Sydney in the 70s was so much better than what we have now. Undoubtedly noise regulations have played a part in its demise, but what publican wants to get rid of his pokies when they are a license to print money?

    • Joel B1 says:

      07:48am | 05/10/11

      “Australians would bet on two flies crawling up a window”.

      Not anymore thanks to the do-gooder Wilkie.

      And let’s not forget where the ALP got all that money from some years ago. That’s right, pokies machines before they sold them to Woolies.

      A staff writer on Crikey wrote about that and got howled down by those re-writers of history the lefties.

      Ironic isn’t it?

      Reply

    • Punter says:

      08:39am | 05/10/11

      I have bet on the make, model and color of the next car to pull into a car space - with a bunch of mates throwing $2 each into the middle of the table and *regardless* of what car pulled in, arguing for approximately 2 rounds over the validity of your call before letting anyone collect the kitty… does a lexus count as a toyota? or is a Jaguar a ford now? How dark does a ‘midnight’ car have to be before you concede it is ‘black’? Is a volvo even a car?
      Tiebreaker - pick the next car in the space next to it. And so on.

      I did it from the open air balcony of a pub that didn’t have pokies in it. Its a good pub, I like going there. It still doesn’t have pokies. So regardless of pokie laws, I’ll still be able to bet on flies or cars or if the next girl to walk in is a blonde/brunette/red…

    • Gus says:

      08:10am | 05/10/11

      I lived in WA for a couple of years were pokies are banned every where except the casino. The pubs and clubs over there seem to survive just fine without relying on fleecing their patrons out of their pay checks.

      Perhaps we should follow the lead of the sand-groupers and leave the high intensity gambling in the casino. Coolum surf club could keep their $720k after all.

      Reply

    • centurion48 says:

      08:15am | 05/10/11

      Is it just coincidence that the Division of Moncrieff that Steve Ciobo represents was created in 1984 (take that Big Brother) and named after the shrill screamer Gladys Moncrieff?
      Good on you Steve, keep peddling the BS. You are supposed to be representing the people of Moncrieff - they elected you, not the clubs industry, which only wants their money.

      Reply

    • Anna C says:

      08:50am | 05/10/11

      I think that while Andrew Wilke’s intentions are good the way he is going about it is totally wrong and misguided. What is going to stop gamblers from just betting on the internet, horses, dogs, casino instead?

      His fixation with Poker Machines is just plain silly, ineffective and expensive. If as a society we were are going to do something about problem gambling then it would need to be done across the board not just Poker Machines.

      While I have sympathy for the families of problem gamblers, at the end of the day these gamblers have to take some personal responsibility for their actions and seek treatment. You can’t legislate against stupidity.

      Reply

    • centurion48 says:

      11:20am | 05/10/11

      @Anna C: “You can’t legislate against stupidity.” That statement is patently false. There are many laws protecting people from stupidity (e.g. drink driving, gun control, etc, etc). We just breed a better idiot who ignores laws or stumbles across another way.
      Wilkie is getting huge resistance just from pokies. How do you suggest he could address those other types of gambling? At least the guy is having a go. Why not support him instead of criticising him?

    • Brian says:

      06:53pm | 05/10/11

      I have seen news articles referring to studies (no, I don’t have the links to them) which have referred to the ‘bells and whistles’ of the pokies, flashing lights and so on meaning that they are more addictive than the other forms of gambling. From my few trips into the casino, I’d have to agree - it’s far more rewarding to get the sound of coins and lights going off.

      The other thing is that betting on the horses, the dogs, AFL, soccer and so on at least require you to wait until the end of a game, and with some skill can even be profitable. Pokies are just a tax on the mathematically challenged, or an expensive hours entertainment (the difference between those two categories is whether or not you expected to win before going in).

    • komet says:

      09:07am | 05/10/11

      It seems the majority of comments here do not buy into your spin Steven. Given the majority here on the The Punch would be likely supporters of the LNP over this sham of a government we have, it seems you are in an awkward place.

      In fact, the overwhelming majority of LNP supporter friends of mine who look at this issue outside the context of political partisanship are supportive of MPC.

      Stop listening to special interests and start supporting what is obviously a good policy. You ARE on the wrong side of history on this - deal with it.

      Reply

    • Justin says:

      09:23am | 05/10/11

      “the problem gamblers”: one quote from one guy
      “the experts”: one quote from one academic.
      A lazy and dishonest piece of writing - I don’t have time to go through all the mistruths, but the $720,000 to possibly upgrade 48 pokies (which would be $15,000 per machine). Where did that number come from? Oh yeah:
      “Clubs Australia says….”.
      Which appears to be your motto, Steve.
      Next time you’re putting together an opinion piece with numbers and things, try getting some facts from more than one source. It’s called journalism.
      This piece was just a shill.

      Reply

    • Chris says:

      09:57am | 05/10/11

      As a West Australian, I do not understand the pleasure associated with using poker machines. I will freely admit that the price of food and drink in our pubs and clubs is higher than that on the East Coast and this is partly associated with the fact that they cannot subsidise their prices as a result of poker machine takings.
      My personal feeling is that mandatory pre-commitment is fine if you’re a regular gambler at known venues (to stick with the WA example, Burswood Casino) as records can be kept. However, if I want to stick a couple of bucks into a machine in passing to see what happens, it seems like a lot of effort to go and get a pre-commitment card and the like. I don’t know what the process for getting one of these cards is but if it takes even the smallest amount of effort, I can’t see poker machine revenues rising

      Reply

    • mick says:

      11:23am | 05/10/11

      Give it a break.  Who feels sorry for the pubs and clubs who seem to have enough money to run an ongoing prime time TV campaign.  Do you think that anybody will sympathise with an organisation which is happy to take an honest hard working Australian’s home from him.  You need to get real.  Any legislation to prevent the rape of ordinary Australians is good.  And if it does not work then it needs to be tweeked so that it does.
      Phil Gould is a recalcitrant Australian for having made the comment he made during the football grand final.  He should be prevented from ever being a commentator again as he clearly is another spokesperson for this rotten industry which causes so much pain in the community.  And as for ‘giving back’ I believe that only 1% goes back to the community…......tax deductible I venture to say.  Maybe the positive spin will be that footballers who can barely speak the English language will not be paid the ridiculous sums of money they currently earn.

      Reply

    • Ben says:

      11:37am | 05/10/11

      Puuulease, seems to sports clubs existed prior to pokies, so they CAN survive without them - even if it means having less beer and bbq days, or heavens forbid someone gets paid less for playing sport.  As for pubs and hotels, who the hell cares if they lose some of their huge profits if it means people won’t lose houses, familiies etc.

      Reply

    • SM says:

      11:43am | 05/10/11

      Good lord Steven

      How could you even put your name to this tripe?

      Reply

    • The Punch Card says:

      12:27pm | 05/10/11

      Tripe is what Punch Cards read each day at the Punch website !

      Reply

    • David says:

      09:02pm | 05/10/11

      You’re a fool, Steve, and clearly in the pocket of the clubs movement.

      A so-called “community club” that is built substanially on the misery of other human beings is no community club at all.

      If the cost of clubs supporting community activities is the misery and destruction of problem gambling, then it’s NOT a cost worth paying.

      I hope your children grow up to be problem gamblers.  After all, they’d be doing the community a grand service, wouldn’t they?  Funding surf carnivals, nippers, junior league, cheap beer for club members ... the list goes on, and on!

      Reply

    • Cherie Gibbs says:

      01:18pm | 21/10/11

      Well said Ken, in a nutshell.

      Reply

    • Jennah says:

      02:24pm | 23/11/11

      Just cause it’s simple doesn’t mean it’s not super hlepful.

      Reply
 
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