The people’s forum format is a bit like Twenty20 cricket. A strong start when you go in to bat second is critical.

The Prime Minister signing an autograph for a voter tonight in Brisbane

Tony Abbott got his at Rooty Hill in western Sydney when he walked down off the stage and spoke to the audience from the floor. This week the Prime Minister was taking no chances, warming up the room by mixing it with the audience before her slot and kicking off her time talking about positive economic plans. The intent was clear: she was going to have a go, try a bit of tonking.

Not this time the stool on the stage, far from the crowd. A Prime Minister rolling into a town where the metro newspaper’s front page says the government is set to lose half a dozen seats in the state must, to stretch the cricket analogy, get on the front foot.

For a nation which dodged the GFC bullet there’s not much joy at Australia’s rude economic health. One thing the two people’s forums have exposed – first in western Sydney and then tonight at the Brisbane Broncos leagues club – is the depth of anger and suspicion directed at both sides of politics.

At one point the Prime Minister was asked why one of the first things she did after taking office was to get on a naval patrol boat David Bradbury, the member for the western Sydney seat of Lindsay.

It was a good question about one of the more cynicism-inducing media events of the campaign and Gillard had no wriggle room. She said Bradbury had been talking about the concern on illegal boat arrivals in his electorate and she wanted to bring him so he could tell people he had seen the border protection measures himself.

Tony Abbott, meanwhile, needed to come to Brisbane speak convincingly on the economy. He spoke about it all right and brought his numbers – mentioning a 17 per cent increase in rent and a 34 per cent hike in electricity prices in his first answer –.but there were some strange responses.

Abbott managed to out himself as a peak oil sceptic, and so far down towards the extreme end of the spectrum that host David Speers even had to step in and clarify if he was suggesting oil was a limitless resource.

He also said that someone earning $100,000 with three or four kids “ain’t rich”. Well they might not think they are, but someone with four kids who earns the average industrial wage might.

The Prime Minister connected marginally better with the Queensland audience than Abbott in Brisbane, but she got a string of ugly questions on Kevin Rudd and political integrity. Asked why voters hadn’t had a chance to cast their own judgment on Rudd, she said she had come to the view there was “pressing set of problems” including the Resources Super Profits Tax, but said she decided to call an early election because “who leads this nation is always a matter for the Australian people”.

There was some light, uncertain applause.

The reception for Abbott wasn’t exactly warm. He even said at the end of his slot: “Some of you obviously don’t think that much of me.”

Abbott got baited on his views on abortion, something women regularly raise as one of their obstacles to supporting him. A woman asked if he would consider banning abortions.

He gave a long answer about how he believed people should be having more children, borrowing Peter Costello’s line about having one for mum, one for dad, and one for the country.

Speers pressed him to answer the question about whether he would consider outlawing abortion and his reply was curt.

“That’s not my policy.”

This not far from the formula Gillard uses when talking about same-sex marriage, which came up again tonight to the same response. “My policy, the policy of the Labor party” is that marriage is between a man and a woman.

It does rather beg the question: that’s “the policy”, but what do you really think?

One of the undecided voters in the room was Catherine Neutze, a nurse who was a patient in a botched cosmetic surgery operation earlier this year. She asked both leaders - to Abbott in the wings on his way out the door, to Gillard from the rostrum during the forum - what they were going to do to protect patients from negligent doctors.

She was none the wiser at the end of the night. Her question is unanswered and it’s unlikely to be by Saturday.

There are only two days left of campaigning to go. Tony Abbott said he was going to be constantly campaigning from 7am tomorrow morning, suggesting he might not sleep until after polling.

If people like Catherine are still not decided on the issues that matter to them, time is pretty much out. Votes will be cast on secondary issues - governments can’t have policies for everybody’s individual concerns.

The audience gave Gillard a narrow win in tonight’s debate though she had the advantage of going second so was able to bag Abbott for some of his answers (including his suggestion that the global financial crisis lasted a matter of six to eight weeks, so the second round of stimulus spending wasn’t necessary.)

I suspect there were a lot of lessons learned from the first debate. Like don’t sit up on a high stool on the stage.

What a pity they’re over - the forums have been a blast of innovation in the interactions between voters and the leaders.

But Gillard seemed to connect marginally better with the audience too. She commanded the room, a reversal of Abbott’s dominance at Rooty Hill.

For the first time in the campaign, Tony Abbott tweeted tonight. It was just after he left the building. “Tonight was great. Will catch a few hours sleep and hit the road continuously from first thing tomorrow until late on Friday.” And he followed it up with a warning to the travelling press team to get an early night.

Taking to Twitter with two days of campaigning to go suggests Abbott knows he has to throw everything at it if he is to win. Even tweets.

117 comments

Show oldest | newest first

    • Brian says:

      09:48pm | 18/08/10

      julia will win the election and rightly so. Good riddance Tony. Oh and shouldn’t he always be campaigning continuously?

    • Dayton says:

      11:48am | 19/08/10

      Followed by 3 years of deficits, an increased price of 70 billion for the NBN, Julia will be knifed before the next election, they will spend 50 million on smokescreen ads only to be beaten by a Turnbull led coalition. What a waste of time and money, please vote against this on saturday.

    • pffft says:

      09:51pm | 18/08/10

      Continously campaign? What a stunt. Whats he doing otherwise?

    • todd says:

      09:54pm | 18/08/10

      haha he is even tweeting what a dill brain desperate times tony ?

    • Noel says:

      09:55pm | 18/08/10

      So is he going for effectively 36 plus hours of unbroken campaigning? How ridiculous. Whats he doing at the sparrow fart hours and who is he talking too?

    • Robert Smissen, rural SA, God's own country says:

      11:22pm | 18/08/10

      Have you ever heard of shift workers? ? They vote too.

    • Reader says:

      10:38am | 19/08/10

      I hope i’ll see Tony at a night club at 2a.m

    • Paul says:

      12:16pm | 19/08/10

      Well you can’t say he hasn’t given it his all. Win, lose or draw Tony Abbott should be congratulated for his campaign efforts.

    • Rhett says:

      09:57pm | 18/08/10

      Yet another stunt regarding the ‘continous campaigning’. He is simply a media tart.

    • Andrew says:

      10:01pm | 18/08/10

      Why does your article clearly misquote Abbot just like Julia did? He said the worse of global financial crisis lasted a matter of six to eight weeks for Australia. Not that the GFC only lasted 6-8 weeks.

      Why does the media propagate the Labour spin?

    • Sam says:

      11:23pm | 18/08/10

      I also heard him say the second round of stimulous had been going for 4 years. Now just when did it begin?

    • murph says:

      11:54pm | 18/08/10

      Because the media has been infested with left wing activists and know-nothings.

    • C'mon says:

      01:36am | 19/08/10

      Sam,

      you heard wrong. What Tony Abbott said was that the 2nd round of stimulus was going to last 4 years as in the case of BER which will continue on until the program is finished.
      Please keep things in context.

    • Joe Blow says:

      07:15am | 19/08/10

      @ C’mon.  It’s a losing battle here mate, trying to get Labor voters to actually understand what is being said.  Like they fall for Gillard’s line that the Lib’s have made $38 billion in promises compared with Labor’s $3 billion ... deceptively omitting the proposed savings or Labor’s $43 Billion promised for the NBN (Never Be Network) before the campaign!  Oh, and Gillard claiming every spending promise has been costed!  What about the promise to implement ALL the recommendations of the Murray/Darling report?  How did they cost they promise?  Or will it be free?  Just an out and out lie!

    • Reader says:

      10:48am | 19/08/10

      Tony also said that the Labor stimulus package has been lasting longer than the World War I. C’mon Tony, where did you get your education from? You haven’t learnt history properly, have you? Or did you have a day off to campaign when they taught the subject?

    • C'mon says:

      11:58am | 19/08/10

      Reader,

      If BER is going to last for 4 full years (if not longer)  than Tony is right to say that it will last longer than WWI.

      My friend, I think you are the one who skipped on the history classes. But fear not, if you just google for it you will find that WWI “began in the summer of 1914. The fighting ended in late 1918.”
      As you can see it did not take 4 full years to end.

    • Jb says:

      10:01pm | 18/08/10

      Why won’t anyone do research on which party has had the largest carbon footprint?
      I think this question could be z game changer for many voters.
      At the very least it would show who really cares about climate change…

    • Robert Smissen, rural SA, God's own country says:

      11:24pm | 18/08/10

      Well Julia hoons around in a gas guzzling 6.0l V8 limo + driver

    • Super D says:

      05:23am | 19/08/10

      Jb, sorry to break it to you mate but climate change was a 2007 issue.

    • kp says:

      10:02pm | 18/08/10

      Paul Colgan, Tony Abbott just may win, despite your pro labor crap you spewed forth tonight.  It ain’t over until the fat lady sings !!!!!!!!!!

    • Rob r Charteris says:

      07:01am | 19/08/10

      kp says:10:02pm; she already did her name was David Barker

    • Kaz says:

      10:07pm | 18/08/10

      Ridiculous that this was not aired on free to air TV.
      This is what we all should be seeing - the people asking the pollies the questions, rather than biased ABC presenters, Tony Jones and Kerry O’Brien.

    • Jb says:

      10:49pm | 18/08/10

      Ahhh kaz it was on the ABC and it ain’t more free than that…

    • murph says:

      11:56pm | 18/08/10

      Except for the bit where the ABC is funded by taxpayers.  I guess you aren’t a taxpayer then…

    • charlie says:

      10:41am | 19/08/10

      No it wasn’t on ABC live.

    • Fred says:

      02:48pm | 19/08/10

      It was on ABC 24 people…

    • B says:

      10:13pm | 18/08/10

      “And he followed it up with a warning to the travelling press team to get an early night. “

      What the hell does this mean??

      Another cheap stunt ala rooty hill no doubt!

    • Joe Blow says:

      07:17am | 19/08/10

      It’s what you do when you have a long day’s work ahead ..not surprised that you and many other Labor voters wouldn’t understand the concept.

    • MarK says:

      09:04am | 19/08/10

      What?

      It means he will be up early and into work and if they want to be with him to get to bed early and be ready to go early. What are you implying lol?

      Talk about tin foil hat stuff.

    • Horthy says:

      10:33am | 19/08/10

      Looked outside this morning a thought I saw a drop of water from the sky. Boss’ll know it’s too dangerous to actually do any work today. Left the tools in the shed and paid my union dues.

    • Baz says:

      10:19pm | 18/08/10

      “Tonight was great. Will catch a few hours sleep and hit the road continuously from first thing tomorrow until late on Friday.”

      Wow Paul. Is he tweeting like Christine Milne?

      What does this even mean?

    • AnyWhichWayButBob says:

      10:25pm | 18/08/10

      There has been no real debate and no intellectual sword fight to favour Jools or Tone.  So I must use another metric, but as a bi-sexual and now using sex appeal to decide, I still cannot choose between them.  Do I put a tick for Julia, tempted by her impressive rack (don’t pretend you haven’t noticed) but then Tony’s uberfit ironman bod is a great credit to effort and the free in-house Parliament gymnasium.  If they are to have another town hall debate may I suggest a 15 minute jelly wrestle which should help my voting on Saturday.

    • Susan says:

      10:52am | 19/08/10

      If you put a tick you won’t vote for either of them, that would make it an informal vote…

    • Sam says:

      11:52am | 19/08/10

      This informal vote thing that Susan is promoting sounds like yet another lib scam to me. They know all rusted on libbers wil vote for Abbot no matter what he says or does, but it would be a huge benefit to the party if they could encourage swinging Labor voters to vote informal.  They would like ‘voluntary voting’ for the same reason.
      Please everybody, whatever your colours, make a valid vote!

    • AnyWhichWayButBob says:

      02:28pm | 19/08/10

      @Susan and Sam - don’t hijack my party leaders jelly wrestle request, but point taken Susan.

    • Mack Daddy says:

      10:29pm | 18/08/10

      Paul what is this sly reference at the end regarding Rabbott’s twitter and campaigning until Friday? He wouldn’t know how to turn da twitter on derrrr and they all campaign…until Saturday

    • b says:

      10:32pm | 18/08/10

      Anyone get the feeling a king hit is coming?

      Something isn’t right…

    • Julie Coker-Godson says:

      10:55pm | 18/08/10

      Yeah…Paul Keating refused to see it coming as did John Howard.  The Australian voter is a funny creature:  often apathetic and even lazy about his/her politics.  However, if they get their dander up they can be really sneaky and give pollies a king hit with the baseball bat.  After taking part in two Coveritlive forums (Rooty Hill and Brisbane) and engaging on The Punch (Fight Club)  and Facebook I find I am no clearer as to who will win for sure although I am decided on my vote. BUT there is this little voice that says that the experts might get a surprise.  We’ll see on Saturday and thank goodness the ads stop at midnight tonight.

    • davo says:

      09:19am | 19/08/10

      the only suprise is a swing to the incumbent, so the rabbott is rooned! bwahahahahahahahaha suckers

    • Tarzan says:

      10:36pm | 18/08/10

      One of the many things I have learnt from this election is this: The boat people thing is misrepresented. We have to stop them, but not for the reasons I always thought. Everything is about money, and this is no different.
      We take 13,500 humanitarian immigrants each year regardless of how they get here. The problem with the boat people is they don’t apply properly from the UNHCR. This means we have to setup this huge expensive bureaucracy and infrastructure to deal with 6,000 people each year. The cost apparently is around $1 Billion per year to deal with it. if we could stop the boat arrivals we would still help asylum seekers but it would be from camps that have been security and ID checked already thus saving us millions of dollars. 
      These people arriving by boats are really screwing us. For every year it happens we could build one big teaching hospital with the money saved and still do our part for asylum seekers from Africa and other nations needing help.

    • Steven says:

      10:50pm | 18/08/10

      I have learnt not to underestimate Tony Abbott.

    • BobM says:

      11:25pm | 18/08/10

      Agree with you Tarzan, but the dopes who are voting Labor and Greens just can’t/don’t want to see it this way - hell, Greens want everyone to be able to come here, so in the future we can all fight over our lack of water, lack of housing and lack of arable land which supplies our food.

    • The Scarlet Pimpernel says:

      08:21am | 19/08/10

      Tarzan

      That is certainly correct. We could give Nauru $50 million a year and it wouldn’t make a dent in what Labor is currently spending because they refuse to stop the boats. They are at the stage where they are putting foreigners up in four-star hotels while some of our own less fortunate citizens are homeless.

      There are also strong rumours that if Labor win the election, certain military barracks in Sydney and Darwin will be used for these illegals and our own soldiers will be turfed out into sub-standard accommodation. Watch the voting in seats with a lot of ADF members….

      The other issue is that it isn’t ‘‘just’’ the billion dollars in direct expenses - these parasites then apply to bring in their uncles, sisters, cousins, grandmothers, brothers, parents etc etc. And each of THEM does the same.

      It may take 20 years to fill the MCG with the actual people who arrive by boat; their relatives who follow (at our expense) would fill it to bursting in a few short months.

    • Sam says:

      09:59am | 19/08/10

      The Scarlet Pimpernel says:08:21am | 19/08/10

      There are also strong rumours that if Labor win the election, certain military barracks in Sydney and Darwin will be used for these illegals and our own soldiers will be turfed out into sub-standard accommodation. Watch the voting in seats with a lot of ADF members….


      You LIEbrals are excellent at starting such rumors, based on nothing more than the desperate need to win.
      last time I read this trash, wasn’t it even more graphic, like ‘wives and children of soldiers on o/s duty were going to be thrown out into the streets’ ?

      Nice touch also, people are seeing through the ‘boat people’ tag and realising they are basically just ‘refugees’,lets now call them ‘illegals’.
      ‘wetbacks’ is a popular americanism, but it doesn’t have quite the same thrust.

      As for “these parasites then apply to bring in their uncles, sisters, cousins, grandmothers, brothers, parents etc etc. And each of THEM does the same.”, If this is true of the alleged ‘boat people’, won’t it also be true of the ‘plane people’ ?

    • andrew says:

      11:26am | 19/08/10

      The Scarlet Pimpernel, i do find it totally offensive and down right ignorant to call refugees parasites.  you must be a real charmer and humanitarian.

      Many people like you, Tarzan and Tony Abbott continue to beat their chests that we need to stop the boats.  But how?  Are you going to put a big net around the country?  Or perhaps a great big wall in the ocean?  Or would you prefer that we build a few more hundred boats and put the navy in them to circumnavigate our countries borders 24/7?  Or maybe put Tony out there with a water pistol on a buoy.  I would imagine any of these options would be a lot more expensive to do then taking in and processing these refugees.

      This is a minor issue (in the grand scheme of things) and is disappointing that both sides of the political arena, the media and the we are full attitude of many Australians are making into one of Australians greatest sovereign risks of our time.  One of the liberals corner stones of their campaign is to stop the boats, and tony will personally turn the boats away.  These are people’s lives we are talking about here. 

      I will admit I would like to see the boats stoping, not for the reasons of many other Australians, but because of their own safety in coming here on these boats.  It is disappointing that nobody really seems to care that more illegal immigrants arrive in Australia via our airports.  Yet the media nor the public nor the politicians seem to even entertain discussing it.  While the people coming via the boats get slagged off at any opportunity.  Just plan weird if you are prepared to think about it.

    • Gregg says:

      02:55pm | 19/08/10

      Sam and Andrew, you just continue to spout garbage.
      The people arriving by plane Sam have visas and yes they can apply for asylum or you could have some who just overstay or work illegally etc. and in all instances, the immigration regulations are enforced.

      And Andrew, it is very very clear when boats started coming again and that was after the TPVs regulation was revoked and the government and you can claim all you like about push factors but these people with money just plainly bypass refugee centres that they could try to get into.
      Surely you are not so blind that you cannot notice a difference between the sraving and dying people of refugee camps and the mainly relatively fit looking people arriving on boats.
      And again!, people arriving on planes have visas.

    • Steven Kaye says:

      10:44pm | 18/08/10

      Wow….the Labor stooges were quick off the mark tonight!

    • Brian Taylor says:

      03:16am | 19/08/10

      couldn’t agree more, but we’ll see what happens on saturday night,
      we might all get a surprise lol
      even if Julia does win, it won’t be by very much maybe 51-49%
      if that is the case, then she’d better do what she has promised to do or the long knifes will be waiting for her just like they did for Rudd

    • Luke04 says:

      08:04am | 19/08/10

      Quite obvious the first few comments are by the same person. If Gillard wins, the soap opera in her Government will begin in earnest. Rudd will be back at it, No finance Minister, no Defence Minister and a question mark over Foreign Affairs Minister. Why don’t journo’s ask Gillard who her team is we’re supposed to vote for?

    • The Scarlet Pimpernel says:

      08:41am | 19/08/10

      Luke04

      The union boys are waiting to see who wins a seat before apportioning portfolios. Also, some of these backroom factional deals can take a while to sort out.

    • Sirro says:

      10:51pm | 18/08/10

      Julia’s explanation of the extent of our debt was complete BS.

      “Consider someone who earns $100,000 a year and has a $6,000 credit card debt. Thats what we have in Australia’.

      Here was me thinking that our Governments debt was 6% of GDP. Thats the GDP of the entire country. Not the income of the Government alone.

      So Gillard thinks that the Gross Domestic Product of the entire country is the same as the income of the Government.

      Now which of the leaders has no idea of economics? Or is her explanation just a continuation of the cynical theme that Labor has run throughout the campaign of trying to dumb everything down to a simple non-thinking explanation to make their blatent waste of the past three years seem fair enough.

      Anyone who votes for these dishonest buffoons deserves them.

    • murph says:

      11:59pm | 18/08/10

      Being a Marxist, it’s unsurprising that Gillard thinks that the government owns all wealth in Australia.

    • Ripper says:

      12:01am | 19/08/10

      A better analogy is a small business that has $300,000 in sales , $345,000 in costs thereby making a loss of $45,000 and a debt of $60,000.

    • Tarzan says:

      12:17am | 19/08/10

      People please read up about Public Debt and Prvate Debt. Australia is in a wonderful position at 17%. The private debt thing we are around 96% of GDP, but that’s normal for rich countries.

    • Steve says:

      01:24am | 19/08/10

      You have an income, you don’t get ahead on that income unless you’re one of the uber-rich who buy anything they want (often on credit!!). I earn $100000, I owe a mortgage $350000. I service it ok and it is increasing in value. I am the story of Australia. Earn, borrow, thrive. The conservative liberal/country parties would have had us sitting on a stash of money (a surplus, woohoo) when we needed to spend to survive. A plague on their house and three more years in the wilderness is well deserved until they get it.

    • Joe Blow says:

      07:25am | 19/08/10

      @ Steve Think about this.  During the GFC EVERY government of EVERY developed country attempted to stimulate their economy.  Many threw more dollars per capita and more quickly than the Labor party - yet they did not prevent recession.  And why not?  Because those countries did not have an existing surplus. Where do you think Australia woudl have been if the Howard govt had just said - “oh well, Labor’s $96 Billion dollar debt is ok, we’ll just pay off the interest”?  What money would Labor have handed out then???

    • James says:

      10:54pm | 18/08/10

      It’s like the first bunch of comments is made by one troll under the names to presume that it was written by many Abbott haters. Gee, haven’t you got better things to do? P.S Abbott probably answered questions more than Gillard, she was more of trying to have sound bite and no direct answer to the question being asked.

    • Benjo says:

      10:58pm | 18/08/10

      Seems there was and is some panic in the room for usual alp cheerleaders. What’s wrong? Feeling a little out of control now?

    • Steve says:

      01:29am | 19/08/10

      Benjo, check the thermometer. in your own room mate. Your conservatives are reaching boiling point quickly. 60 degrees, 70, 80, 100,  150, get out of there man, it’s all blowing up in Tony’s face”

    • first vote says:

      11:02pm | 18/08/10

      I think it is very important to understand the labour era, it was absolutely irresponsive spending in many areas through stimulus packages. I agree there were few good program launched by Labour but absolutely over spending. As a family you go to ten different places before buying a car (even used!) and get a best deal. Why not as a govt? What a wasteful spending through various stimulus packages including education. I think Liberal needs to wake up as well; you don’t need to save money when people are really in need of support. Similarly, Labour brought few good plans but could not deliver better anything, I think on economy management Liberal should get more vote. At the end I would give Liberal more support as they don’t spend recklessly as labour do. Liberal knows how to manage and save money, now they need to learn how to spend and improve infrastructure of Australia for the future generation. Labour, sorry you do not have enough skill on how to spend my hard earned money, you do deserve to be in opposition. Liberal should learn a message on spending more on building infrastructure, no need to save and keep in bank; it will be spend by labour in cash handout-absolute waste.

    • Rob r Charteris says:

      11:08pm | 18/08/10

      Colgo; you must of missed the start. Abbott came in early and went around the crowd shaking the hand of every person (closest to the aisle only) whereas Julia took time to talk everyone. The start of your article above seems to just be simplistic views of either Julia and (dear I say it) rAbbott. But as I read it picks up on what really happened. And at the end you are totally right even tweets lol

      It is true rAbbott was looking for a knockout punch tonight but he never got it, in fact Julia won it maybe only by a slim margin but she did win it. rAbbott stumbled tonight on several things, including on economic questions. There is no way he has the PMship in the bag, not even close.

      rAbbott’s reply to the peak oil question really said it all, enough said… and people want this idiot as PM??? One has to wonder about the calibre of the people willing to vote for him. No wonder the boy believes in imaginary friends.

    • Super D says:

      05:30am | 19/08/10

      Actually his response to peak oil was spot on.  As the oil price increases increasingly remote exploration and reserves become economic.  We have centuries worth of oil held in oil shale.  There are also extensive drilling bans in place for environmental reasons.  When oil hits $500 a barrel these will be lifted.

      Peak oil as a concept is misleading but then most of the fatalist ideas promoted by the green movement are.

    • Rob r Charteris says:

      08:32am | 19/08/10

      Super D says:05:30am; LOL so you think peak oil is a concept invented by the Greens movement??? wow! I dont think I’ll bother replying to the rest of your unbelieveable musings. You totally miss the point and that is rAbbott thinks oil is infinite.

    • Horthy says:

      10:40am | 19/08/10

      Invented vs promoted.

      Learn the difference.

    • Heroic says:

      11:16pm | 18/08/10

      This election is, I think,  shaping up as a repeat of 2004- a leader who nobody is really sure of but who has campaigned remarkably well but who, when the crunch comes. the majority of people will not vote for.  Labor will win with a majority much the same as it currently has with one or two seats more or less than it currently has.  It won’t be that close.

    • MarK says:

      11:18pm | 18/08/10

      Spot on with your batting 2nd analysis being an advantage.

      For example Gillard could use the false analogy of the $6k loan ion a $100k income and was able to get away with it.

      Overall she was much better but Abbott was OK. Draw from this one which is a win for Gillard.

      Need a “Tampa” to lock in a win does Tony.

      Anyway will be a close one.

    • Rob r Charteris says:

      11:42pm | 18/08/10

      MarK says:11:18pm; ‘For example Gillard could use the false analogy of the $6k loan ion a $100k income and was able to get away with it”

      it doesn’t get more simpler than that, even you an understand. she is right on the money fella

      “Anyway will be a close one” aaaawe wud da madda smelling a loss ; )
      Mr chameleon

    • CammoT says:

      12:19am | 19/08/10

      Yes I agree MarK she got the numbers for the credit card analogy wrong. She should have said ‘it’s like someone on a $320,000 pa salary having an $89,000 mortgage!”

    • murph says:

      12:48am | 19/08/10

      She’s not right on the money.  At all.  The debt is $60B (and growing).  The consolidated revenue of the government is about $300B.  If she wants to include the whole of Australia’s GDP as the income figure then she must include private debt as well.  If she did that, then the numbers would not look good at all.

      Why am I not surprised that this needs to been explained over and over to an ALP voter?

    • Joe Blow says:

      07:32am | 19/08/10

      @ murph No hope of getting them to understand.  They all think that GDP is the amount of money that the Labor government has in its own bank account to spend and waste as it sees fit.  And why wouldn’t they if they’ve been watching this government in action.  Like most government members, most Labor voters have never had to run a business and make a profit.  They don’t understand the basic concept let alone the details.

    • MarK says:

      08:28am | 19/08/10

      Rob Rob Rob.

      I have never said Abbot would win.

      I have constantly said Abbott has a hope. Even the most dysfunctional onlooker can see that he does. I have said repeatedly he needs a “Tampa” to win.

      I have also said it is incredible we are seeing Labor with the chance to lose the election and if it to be returned with a reduced majority.

      And Rob really you have to understand that the analogy Giallrad gives is government debt to GDP.

      In other words she is saying the government receives all the GDP of the nation.

      You might want to check with some local business owners and maybe 1 or 2 CEO’s of the majors and ask if they hand it all over to Canberra. Ask them if they would if asked.

      It is a false description by her. She is not right on the money.

      Please read about it. Please understand it and apologise at your leisure. Ignorance of the facts is no excuse to be rude.

    • Rob r Charteris says:

      08:51am | 19/08/10

      MarK says:08:28am ; “Please read about it. Please understand it and apologise at your leisure. Ignorance of the facts is no excuse to be rude.”

      Gee that’s a bit rich coming from you. Maybe you should take a look at yourself there fella… poor didums

    • Rosie says:

      11:37pm | 18/08/10

      Forget Julia & Tony! The real show was Craig Emerson frothing in the mouth and making a complete fool of himself. Must be the excitement of being in the same room as Julia Gillard, ex lover!

      100% to the fake Julia charming her way into the hearts of the Queenslanders who we all thought were disgruntled with her axing of one of their own. It goes to show how people are easily fooled - but hey that is what she is all about. Like Kevin Rudd it may just take 3 years for some of us Queenslanders to find out that she was after all another Kevin Rudd.

    • Qld Voter says:

      12:30am | 19/08/10

      I taped the show and watched it again and the Liberal Guy was talking to the compare oyutside after both Tony and Julia spoke.  The Labor guy above Craig E only compalined about Abbott and then shot through.  Tony Abbot remembered and used every questioneers name Julia Gillard didnt use or acknowledge any of them.  Gillard was asked 5 times about Rudd even to the point someone asked her direct if she had physically Spoken to Rudd, she danced around the questions every time and didnt answer only to say they had “communicated”

    • Steve says:

      01:15am | 19/08/10

      Rosie, you’re comment is lame. When people don’t agree with you, they are obviously fooled. Take a deep breath and check out your own leader. He’s shallow fried and a moving feast. Advice: don’t believe anything he tells you - he’s already warned you of that

    • Super D says:

      05:32am | 19/08/10

      I’m actually surprised that no one through the campaign has asked either Emerson or Gillard if Emerson was still with his wife and kids when the two of them first hooked up.

    • Rob r Charteris says:

      06:56am | 19/08/10

      Steve says:01:15am; I totally agree with you and rAbbott is a liar… where was the wrath that he said Julia was running away from and too scared to face. Fact is Julia was never scared to face the Queensland people forum, but rAbbott craps himself at the thought of a proper debate and his pathetic excuse that it would be robbing Queenslanders of their question time goes to show what a coward this idiot really is. Like Rosie about he lives in his own little world. And now he has clearly lost last night just watch him revert to the scare campaign tactics its all he knows

    • Joe Blow says:

      08:10am | 19/08/10

      @ Rob d C.  Why did she run to Perth when Tony was waiting at the ABC for the economic debate? Something about a Labor Party fundraiser that we now find out never took place .... very brave JuLIAR.

    • Rob r Charteris says:

      08:26am | 19/08/10

      Joe Blow says:08:10am; Why did Abbott hide away in Brisbane when Julia chanlenge him to a debate at ch7 when she was also in Brisbane the other night, he failed to show. Because he’s gutless face it Mr Blow you commander and chief is a pussy whip wuss and his several attempts at humor last night fell flat.

    • Joe Blow says:

      08:56am | 19/08/10

      @ Rob d C ... you have clearly been to the Gillard school of question dodging.  Answering a question by posing your own.  Well done!
      Though I didn’t think a graduate from the school would have reverted to the name calling - you would normally save this for after the question is repeated.  So, what did happen to the mysterious Labor Party fundraiser that was more important than debating Abbott on the economy?

    • Rob r Charteris says:

      02:19pm | 19/08/10

      Joe Blow says:08:56am; The answer I gave was rightly appropriate. If you didn’t like it that entirely up to you. I think Julia has explained herself on her answer that being 30 minutes is not a proper debate it’s a quick chat. What is rAbbott running from and Mr Blow explain to me why he failed to show up in Brisbane especially since he wasn’t going anywhere

    • Lucy says:

      12:01am | 19/08/10

      Continuous campaigning suggests there will be another visit to Perth…..

    • Tarzan says:

      01:05am | 19/08/10

      In terms of Australia’s debt we are actually in a pretty good position;
      Our Public Debt is 17% of GDP that’s quite low.
      However our external debt which includes household and private debt is very high at 92%. But this is a phenomenon with wealthy countries. For example Iran has only 6% external debt while USA has 94% and UK 400%.
      It does show we are all over committed and slaves to the banks. And that’s the way the government and banks like it. So in effect the country is in a lot better position than us.

    • Sirro says:

      12:57pm | 19/08/10

      And a very big thankyou to Mr Howard and Mr Costello and the Mining Industry for that terrific debt position, eh Tarzan.

      To a certain extent all must acknowledge that the Hawke/Keating government also played a decent role in opening up the Australian economy over the 13 years that they were in power.

      Hawke obviously claimed all credit for everything that has been good about government over the past 40 years at the Labor launch on Monday but thats to be expected from a self-engrossed windbag like him. Unfortunately much of his hubris has also passed to Mr Swan and Ms Gillard who seem to have inherited Mr Hawke’s inability to tell the truth or give credit where its due. In addition they are determined to give the miners a good kicking to pay for their inability to balance the budget.

      Basically there is only one party who consistantly looks after the interests of the majority of Australians, the majority of the time. Thats the Liberal Party. Any result other than a coalition win on Saturday is going to be a bad result for the majority of Australians.

    • Clarified says:

      02:14am | 19/08/10

      There is one thing I heard Julia Guilard say about the NBN that actually made me think twice about supporting it.

      When she was asked how much would NBN broadband cost to the user she quoted the monthly TRIAL prices in Tasmanian of $40-$60. When suggested by David Speers that getting the full speed/benefit of the network was going to cost a lot more than the quoted prices Julia admitted that obviously not everyone is going to want the high speeds because of the high monthly costs associated.

      Taking from that I figure that not everyone or even most people will never want or be able to afford the cost of getting the full benefit of the speeds available. This means that only the rich or big businesses/organisations will be able to afford and get the full benefits from the high speeds that the NBN is being bragged for.

      If that is the case why should the average taxpayer have to pay for broadband infrastructure that they will not be able to afford to use in their homes?

      Now Tony Abbot’s broadband plan is making a lot more sense both in technical and economic terms. i.e. a mix of technologies, including fibre optics, that will be affordable in the current hard economic times and more realistic in terms of the different real needs/usage of the different sectors of the Australian population.

      Am I making sense?

    • Shane From Melbourne says:

      05:01am | 19/08/10

      No. Telstra offers cable at roughly $100 a month for 25GB download limit. If people can get reliable cable speeds for $40-60 a month then they are getting a bargain. Optus and others don’t even offer cable to some suburbs of capital cities yet. It’s either Telsta’s prices for cable or the slower ASDL. Some would call that extortion….

    • Joe Blow says:

      07:37am | 19/08/10

      Clarified.  Yes, this is what the coalition have been trying to explain to people. But Labor voters would rather pay through the nose for something hardly anyone will use, just because it was a Labor party idea!!!  How funny it is to see 80 year old Labor voters saying they’re voting Labor because of the NBN!!  Boy one GByte is fast - we all need one of them!!!

    • Sam says:

      12:11pm | 19/08/10

      Clarified says:02:14am | 19/08/10

      Just like now, your ISP will offer a range of products with varying speeds, you pay for what you want, but it’s all going to be a shitload faster.

      NBN v Abbott’s plan? Fibre optics is all underground and impervious to weather conditions or volume of traffic compared to wireless. Fibre optics won’t require a gazillion of transmission towers to be built. Both fibre optics and wireless currently exist in places.
      Fibre Optics won’t affect you the average user financially, whereas, have you not heard/read any of the horror stories of people who have downloaded a movie, or tunes via their wireless devices, and been billed thousands of dollars for the privelage?

      oh btw, when the taxpayer built the copper wire network, it was very expensive, similarly to the NBN.

    • PBM says:

      12:33pm | 19/08/10

      How come no one has asked Labor how much it will cost to rewire houses to be able to use the technology they will only be leaving at our front doors.

      Do people realize each household will be up for Thousand$$$$ to re wire their places as they won’t be able to use the 2 pair copper wiring they have now.

      Strange no one has asked this question because if the general public knew the cost to rewire and the monthly costs to subscribe to a descent speed I am sure the response would be different.

      This is just a joy the majority of people supporting this rollout will feel after the election when it will be too late!

    • Mr Pastry says:

      02:46pm | 19/08/10

      @Sam - there are still contention rates with fibre and wherever the traffic goes.  As for wireless solutions, I do not think that the NBN will be able to resist rolling out wireless access throughout their system as they will have such a great back bone.  I wonder what the mobile phone companies think of that.  Also, in the US there is a proposal to use 4G wireless (up to 250Mbps) rather than cable to connect up the country it is 25% of the NBN budget.
      One good outcome is our technophobic MPs (lawyers, accountants, political careerists)  have finally been forced to agree that technology is not just about their nephew playing WarCraft but is vital for future prosperity.  How about having some Engineers and Scientists (gasps of astonishment) in government to really understand when advisors are really pushing barrows and feathering nests (apologies)

    • Clarified says:

      02:57pm | 19/08/10

      Sam,

      But Abbots plan also includes fibre optics although not for all. But then what is the real justification for giving everyone fibre optics if most people will not even need it or afford it?

      If I could use an analogy to describe the way I now see the NBN it would be the same as the government giving a V8 turbo charged race car to 93% of Australian homes in Australia with most gathering dust in the garage because people would not be able to afford the costs of running it or would not be into racing at all.

      The question would then be: Why get it in the first place? Why should everyone be given a V8 turbo charged race car when all they need is a Toyota corolla? Wouldn’t that represent a big waste?
      Of course, there are some who will have nothing less than fiber optics and the fastest speed it can provide but why should their benefit be at the cost of all taxpayers? 

      Also the comparison between the NBN and the copper wire network mentioned is not reasonable. Nowadays you can make phone calls and much more using existing technology including wireless and copper without having an NBN.

      Back in those days none of that would have been possible without the copper wire network. That alone more than justified the copper wire network roll out.

      Arguably the reasons compelling the NBN today are nowhere near the same in importance as those for the copper wire network of back then.

    • Sam says:

      04:12pm | 19/08/10

      Clarified says:02:57pm | 19/08/10

      I hear you. I currently have adsl broadband, because that is the best I can get in my metro area. It gets bogged down with traffic, and frequently ‘falls out’ totally. Much like dial-up.
      Like thousands of others, I cannot even upgrade to adsl2 because the previous government saw fit to not split up Telstra wnem selling it, and Telstra holds the country to ransom with it’s copper wire network.
      The NBN is bring rolled out to the door, because this is the cheapest way overall to install it for everybody. You can opt out of a connection now, but if you do, and decide you want it later, it will then cost the big bucks to connect. AS new housing divisions are created, they will all be connected during the building process, just as power and water are now.  I would have to say, it will add value to your house come ‘selling’ time.

      As for the ‘V8 turbo’, that isbn’t part of the deal, just the ‘highway’ it travels along. It will be up to you do decide the speed [power] you want your information to arrive at. You may be happy with your old corolla, and that is fine. Sooner or later, somebody in your household probably won’t be.

      When you say “Arguably the reasons compelling the NBN today are nowhere near the same in importance as those for the copper wire network of back then.”,  isn’t that like saying ‘because we have candles, we don’t need electric lights’ ? or maybe ‘we have a rowboat, why do we need a harbour bridge’?

    • Ripa says:

      03:33am | 19/08/10

      Tony is a firefighter, a lifesaver, a bike rider, and uses public transport. He doesnt use slogans, he is not a back stabber, he is a family man and his wife is out with him in support. 

      Under Labor, our cost of living has blown out, power, phone, water, council, all massive increases. What environmental benefits have come from all these increases in costs?, can anyone name a single benefit from increased prices?

    • Gary says:

      11:43am | 19/08/10

      Ripa says:03:33am | 19/08/10

      Tony is a part time firefighter and lifesaver. He loves to wear budgie smugglers when board shorts would suffice. He’s a bike rider, in fact he has probably ridden most of the bikes in the coalition. He once used public transport for a photo shoot. His current soundbites include ‘great big new tax’. he has not stabbed anybody in the back since Malcolm Turnbull. He is a family man and his wife is out with him in support. He is also a religous bigot who answers to Cardinal Pell. He intends to reward the foreign miners for removing our mineral resources at little gain to Australia, other than the vast storage pits they are creating.

      During the term of Labor, just like during the term of Howard, our cost of living has blown out, power, phone, water, council, all massive increases. What environmental benefits have come from all these increases in costs?, The main benefits from all these increased costs have gone to the few australians and many foreigners who usually benefit from privitisation of public assets, like Telstra for instance.  Yadda Yadda Yadda.:

    • Gregg says:

      03:16pm | 19/08/10

      Gary,
      Seems as though you haven’t been anywhere near the Surf Live Saving movement for it’s the Surfies you’ll find in Boardies and whatever.
      As to the rest of your yadda yadda, you bring on yourself what you vote for if they win.

    • Steven says:

      05:07am | 19/08/10

      The oil comment is a worry..verging on the Dan Quayle. A lack of sleep might tip him over the edge and would be fun to watch.

    • Clarified says:

      11:47am | 19/08/10

      I Understood perfectly what Tony meant about oil. In fact he has exposed the real situation about oil that most people are unaware of.

      When asked by David Speers, Abbott clarified that he does not believe oil is an infinite or renewal resource.  However he did say that it is not as finite as we are often led to believe in terms of being exhausted in 30 or 40 years time. Abbot says that if that was the case every time we talk about the oil reserves the estimated time left should be decreasing incrementally as the years pass by. This is not the case.

      The reality is that there is a large number of identified oil reserves around the world (big and small) that are simply not being factored into the exploration equation because they are not commercially viable at the moment. This is because some reserves are not big enough or too deep and oil prices and/or the high cost of technology needed to explore them makes their exploitation economically unviable. In some cases, the technology may not even be existent to do it.

      Obviously these types of oil reserves will become more economically viable in the future as technology advances and its cost comes down. 
      As this happens we’ll see another extra 30-40 years added to the life expectancy of oil reserves simply because reserves that were previously inaccessible would have been made accessible.

      I believe there is always the possibility that future technology/know-how may even be able to detect reserves undetectable by current means at our disposable. Who can tell?

      So Abbott’s views on oil are certainly not really off the mark but I understand some people will easily raise their brows simply because they are too used to hear day in day out that the exhaustion of oil reserves is eminent. That is not the case.

    • Al says:

      12:40pm | 19/08/10

      Steven : after living up here at Port Macquarie and watching Tony Abbott complete the Iron Man event earlier in the year I can assure you this is one of the most mentally tough and disciplined people in the country.

      This mental toughness has taken your Labor party by surprise who underestimated him and that has cost them a leader and may yet hand them the most embarrassing loss in Australian Political history.

    • Super D says:

      05:34am | 19/08/10

      Yes you are.  But the coalitions plans can’t be described as a “Broadband Revolution” and therefore do not inspire dimwitted progressives.

    • Tony of Poorakistan says:

      05:52am | 19/08/10

      Joolya:

      1. Admitted to the internet censorship filter
      2. Tried to claim both SA (water issues)  and Vic (sustainability)  as home states
      3. Dropped Bligh in the guano
      4. Went very anti-Tony rather than pro-Joolya about half-way through
      5. Said Australia was a ‘peaceful’ multicultural society when a lot of her audience are afraid to walk around their own city at night and Melbourne had three very public ethnic murders during the week
      6. Alienated the NT by talking about north WA and north Qld in terms of resources but forgetting the NT
      7. Totally fluffed a Dorothy Dixer on the NBN by mis-stating the reason for the difference between 4.7 and 43 Billion
      8. Had a shocker of a make-up job. She looked like a washed-out 50 yr old hooker with all that lipstick on her teeth and what’s with the lip gloss?

      Abbott:

      1. Stitched up the rural vote, at least in Qld (Farmers at the cabinet table, enquiry on subsidies)
      2. Made a VERY telling point about 20,000 extra public servants since Krudd was elected.
      3. Did well by linking previous Labor disasters to forthcoming ones (’‘pink batts on wheels’‘)
      4. Handled the indigenous question really well.
      5. Scored a lot of points on apprenticeships and trade training by pointing out the difference between their scheme and Labors (’‘a shed down the back with a lathe in it’). He SHOULD have mentioned the certs they could gain, though.
      6. Scored HUGELY with the pilot scheme to earn credits against HECS. Bonus points for slipping in that it was suggested at 2020 and ignored by Krudd.
      7. Buggered up the question about veterans. He should have mentioned rehab at one end of the spectrum and TPI at the other. TPI gives you a gold card for everything, plus a pension.
      8. Could have done better on NBN. CSIRO for example, are currently trialling wireless technology that is much faster than 1GB. He did make a good point about wireless everywhere.

      I scored it for Abbott and I thought the moderator made it very very easy for Gillard. He should have followed up more questions like he did for Abbott.

    • Muzz says:

      08:48am | 19/08/10

      Wow Tony. That’s detailed analysis. I like it.

    • Goldie says:

      07:43am | 19/08/10

      It’s very concerning that the Government wants to spend more than $40 billion dollars, or what I heard quoted as being $10 million per kilometre to roll out an NBN. On Brisbane radio yesterday, I heard that there was no business plan prepared or study conducted. There is general concern that even with the estimates of cost being so high, there has been a critical under estimate and a failure to take into account the (a’la in-roof insulation fiasco) likely profiteering and shoddiness of band-wagon jumpers who will impact the infrastructure.

      It would be nice to see partnerships and private enterprise and balanced roll-out of improved services.

      In my business, which currently uses the internet minute by minute and sends documents to and fro, we pay for the best service and it is more than satisfactory. I can’t just see a need to upgrade.

    • Daniel says:

      08:16am | 19/08/10

      It’s $26 billion the Government will be spending. How about the trial in Tasmania is a business plan and study? You know, the one that came in ahead of time and under budget? This isn’t just random fibre installers applying to the government for subsidies and doing their job, just like we don’t just have random people installing Power Lines. Do some research, don’t listen to the Liberal garbage. http://www.nbnco.com.au

      I’m glad your business of sending documents around has a perfectly dandy interweb connection. That is not the case for a very large part of Australia. Not to mention the other business opportunities that open up with more bandwidth.

    • Majority says:

      09:17am | 19/08/10

      yes, NBN will be a uncompetitive white elephant. Telstra has had to agree to not compete with it using existing HFC/Foxtel cable. Labor knows best and doesn’t trust Australian individuals and companies to make decisions. This is all due to a bungled tender process. Mountains of money are being thrown at this to save face.

    • MarK says:

      09:47am | 19/08/10

      Daniel is attempting to blind-side you Goldie.

      Few facts. The NBN will cost in excess of $40 billion. The government does not deny this. Daniel just wants you to concentrate on the borrowings the government will inject into the works. Yes private investors will also contribute but the network does not cost $26 billion. It is $40 billion plus. This is indisputable.

      Also Daniel is attempting to make a case for business studies to occur after implementation. I know of no business that has ever had a thought bubble between 2 executives and decided to invest capital to “test” a theory.

      What they do is the homework first and then invest. It is disingenuous to suggest that it works the other way. The governments own expenditure rules make this type of spending “irregular”. By there own standards the NBN should not have been started before proper modelling on cost benefit, ROI etc etc were undertaken. It proceeded for political advantage. No more and no less.

      The $25 million dollar external report into the NBN was sent back to the authors unseen by anyone except the government. It was rejected. They had to rewrite it.. This alone should ring some alarm bells. Why the rewrite? What was so damaging in the initial report?

      You see Goldie what the government is doing is reverse engineering reasons to build the network after making the decision. It is pathetic.

      Oh one other thing about the report, in it there is never a mention of whther the network is worthwhile. Pretty glaring omission. Pretty basic fact.

      Now to Daniels further points which are generalisations. We should enquire of him exactly what opportunities this network will open up that are not already available to us now.

      We should ask him for the economic modelling and reports that show the actual increase in GDP arising from “other business opportunities” the system opens up. We should get him to show “the very large part of Australia” which has inferior internet for its business needs.

      You see most cheersquad members throw these generalisation around as if it the be all to end all. It will create “business opportunities”. Jobs will fall form the sky. Blah blah blah.

      Problem is they cannot quantify any of it. Because they have not done the study.

      Now I will be attacked for being a Luddite or worse. Big deal.

      For the record the state of broadband in this country is deplorable and needs upgrading. Spending $40 billion on a new network (on naything for that matter) and attempting to justify after the work starts is plain wrong. Much moire work needed to be done before this was started. We have seen the stuffs ups that occur when this rushes….well when they do anything, so of course we should tread with caution.

      You are thinking well Goldie keep it up.

    • Joe Blow says:

      11:47am | 19/08/10

      Does anyone think that a single Labor voter would have changed their vote if the Coalition had proposed such a delusional thing as the NBN. 

      Yet here they are all running around as if this is the absolute best way a government could spend $43 BILLION dollars, as if the whole economy is doomed without it.  I suppose at least they’ll all be able to download adult videos faster when they’re on their RDOs.

    • Sam says:

      01:13pm | 19/08/10

      Joe Blow says:11:47am | 19/08/10

      Does anyone think that a single Labor voter would have changed their vote if the Coalition had proposed such a delusional thing as the NBN. 

      Blowhard blow often Joe, if we hadn’t been brought up on a steady diet of ‘non-core’ promises, if Abbott wasn’t such a bigotted luddite under the influence of Howard and Pell, if he wasn’t such a sly, deceptive mongrel generally, and he proposed the NBN similar to the Labor model, then I would vote Liberal. I have in the past.

    • Ali says:

      01:16pm | 19/08/10

      How much will it cost to rewire houses that have the standard 2 pair copper wiring.?

    • Gary says:

      03:32pm | 19/08/10

      Ali says:01:16pm | 19/08/10

      How much will it cost to rewire houses that have the standard 2 pair copper wiring.?

      Going by the stupidity of that question, I assume you are one of Abbott’s advisers.
      aybe you have heard of ‘modems’ and the like?

    • Gregg says:

      03:33pm | 19/08/10

      And Daniel, it has only just been switched on, the PM there herself with video streaming of kids waving from a school I suppose.
      Since when did we need video streaming in schools but it is typical of the great uses.
      And what of all the electronics boxes maintenance Daniel?
      That been factored in at all?
      This is the biggest con job the Labor party will have ever put over on Australians and linking it to e health and e education, what a load of BS.
      Would you not think actual spending on medical services and at least an east coast water grid could have been of higher priority.

    • Gregg says:

      03:51pm | 19/08/10

      A good unanswered question Ali and even though we’ve had the great song and dance over some connections in Tassie, absolutely no detail on connection costs etc.
      I remember some months ago they showed one house being set up and they had a whole closet of various black boxes and more out on the power/telephone line poles.
      It’ll be interesting to see what lifespan and maintenance costs of all this stuff is going to be and who’re going to call! the ghostbusters!

      Another factor in all this is going to be the capacity of server interconnections and that along with ISP servers along with how many $100s is what will ultimately determine speeds.

      And for most users who download information and read it or whatever, the download speed is a bit irrelevant whether you have seconds or more to open a site/article and then spend minutes reading it.

      The major users of this are going to be people watching Utube and movies etc. and they can do that already anyway in most places, just the same as businesses and individuals can do video calls and for instance in the medical area, Xrays could be transmitted over ten years ago.

    • The Scarlet Pimpernel says:

      08:50am | 19/08/10

      A trial in Tasmania? That’s not how they were spruiking it. It was the first rollout according to Conroy and Joolya. Done with no business case.

      But, to give you the benefit of the doubt, if that is their business case, what are the success criteria? 50% take-up? 60% ? 70% ? What happens if that isn’t achieved - do they pull it all out again?

      More detail, please, Daniel.

    • John Stevens says:

      11:08am | 19/08/10

      I have got a house in Perth with Foxtel Cable hanging off the telephone poles that no one uses and this was not run out over the country. I have a building site out the back where the bobcat ran through our fibre optic and it cost $8000 to have it spliced together.  The Country is littered with poor cabling scenarios.The future is in wireless.

    • Glenz says:

      11:20am | 19/08/10

      No wonder our politcal leaders don’t have a vision for the country - the electorate doesn’t care. Last night’s forum was all about ‘what’s in it for me, me me?’

    • Tony of Poorakistan says:

      01:12pm | 19/08/10

      Gillard just shot herself in the foot, again. She stated at the Press Club that she won’t talk to Woodside about putting the Sunrise plant in East Timor (Woodside want it offshore).

      I can tell you right now that Gusmao will insist on that as a condition of having a refugee processing centre.

      Better get working on Nauru, then

    • Tony of Poorakistan says:

      01:39pm | 19/08/10

      And she just dropped Kenneally in it. LOL. Hope she isn’t expecting Christmas cards from her or Bligh.

      Oh ...wait a minute. She doesn’t believe in Christmas. Scratch that.

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Dementor doing a good job for sweden #sbseurovision

Anthony Sharwood

Ukraine song pinches chord progression from The Verve's Bittersweet Symphony. Fo real #sbseurovision

Anthony Sharwood

RT @GerardDaffy: @antsharwood all the talk over there is the grannies will win.they entered to get a church built,feelgood story

Anthony Sharwood

These peole insult my grandmothjer, who was born in minsk, belarus #sbseurovision

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Nosebleed Section

choice ringside rantings

From: They must pay for one’s bitter disappointments

Michael S says:

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From: Welfare for breeders is a bonus for everyone

Change Up! says:

I have no problem paying my taxes. As a single, childless person on a very decent income, I can afford it and not have my life severely altered. Plus I understand that my taxes paying for things like schools, childcare and infrastructure is ultimately a good thing. A better community is better for me… [read more]

Gentle jabs to the ribs

They must pay for one’s bitter disappointments

They must pay for one’s bitter disappointments

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