Let’s all just keep Mum on parenting, eh?

Huey says:

07:58am | 07/04/11

Scary stuff Teachy! Scary because you sound like you are in sync with my daughter…or….is that you Wendy? Preppies who aren’t toilet trained because of their “passive-aggressive,emotionally-incestuous arse-biscuit parents”  are a particular favourite. (love that arse-biscuit!)

Michael N says:

09:00am | 07/04/11

One of the best comments I’ve read in the Punch for ages - thank you! It’s not important whether I agree or not (I do FYI) but it was just nicely written. Teach us more please McTeachy (Scottish?).

BK says:

09:12am | 07/04/11

Thanks for feeling such an overwhelming urge to throw generalisations about from start to finish of your little rant.  Very helpful.

Also, it is great that you feel so strongly about telling parents they’ve done a bad job.  I can only assume you are more than happy for students and parents to return the favour to their teachers - let’s take the Myschool website to a whole new level!

Missy says:

09:18am | 07/04/11

@teachy-mcteach
That is the scariest thing I’ve heard in a long time.

Chris Richardson says:

09:20am | 07/04/11

I think you need a holiday Teach!

iansand says:

09:36am | 07/04/11

BK - It’s been done http://au.ratemyteachers.com/  Not a particularly scientific sampling, however.

fairsfair says:

09:37am | 07/04/11

@TeachyMcTeach - gold. I started studying teaching after high school and following my 1 week prac in week 16 I knew I couldn’t do it. I had chosen high school and was given Grade 12 at the worst school in my area. Most of those kids were 2 years older than me and I have never seen a bigger bunch of numpties thrown into one room in my life.

I know a lot of really bad teachers. People who I am genuinely concerned about “teaching” the youth of tomorrow - they are idiots themselves. I know there are lots of good ones out there though and I can see how the system and the rediculous demands of parents would wear down and break the good ones. It is sad because all I see happening is the pushing out of the good ones out and further empowering idiots.

BK - they don’t sound like generalisations to me - they sound like actual experiences. Way to prove teachy’s point in your second paragraph - naturally it is never the blessed children and their bubble-wrapped upbringing that is the problem is it?

Duff says:

10:05am | 07/04/11

Way to hijack the discussion, Mcteach.  This isn’t about you or your kind.  Anthony doesn’t say or imply anywhere that qualified teachers who play an actual role in a particular child’s life shouldn’t be able to point out problems or issues to the parents.  He is saying the rest of us, who’s business it is not, should bugger off.

Clare says:

10:17am | 07/04/11

Thanks Teach….I’ve been there myself, 20 years of teaching, mostly Sydney, Western Suburbs….kids who turned up repeatedly for class with no books, pens or any sort of equipment, backpacks full of Coke and chips, all wired for sound with ipod and mp3s, texting each other across the room and sending pictures through their phones. Send them to the office - before they get there they have rung their parents who turn up at the school and abuse the teachers. Parents who refuse to have all electronic equipment logged at the office (‘my child might need to contact me urgently’), parents who had never said ‘no’ to a child, so said child couldn’t even respond appropriately to ‘Please sit down’
After various incidents of assaults against me, I did get out, but lost the profession I loved and my means of income. You need a license to have a dog…...

BK says:

10:23am | 07/04/11

@Fairsfair - what teachy said about millenials, Gen Z, latchkey generation, militantly over-protective stay at home mothers… these aren’t generalisations to you?

And please take a moment to try and comprehend my second paragraph before commenting on it - iansand didn’t have any trouble.

PaulB says:

10:29am | 07/04/11

Sound all-too-familiar BK?

Dazeddazza says:

11:17am | 07/04/11

Totally agree with the teacher, a good post.  Mr Sharwood is right in most aspects of his article, especially when he mentions parenting books.  It does not take a genius to figure out how to bring up kids, just teach them about mutual respect, and give them the ability to do things and learn things by themselves.  Love and a firm stance on behaviour will win out every time.

Sarah T says:

12:19pm | 07/04/11

“Invariably, raised by militantly over-protective stay-at-home mothers who do *everything* for their children to try and justify their life choice.”

How dare you??? What a load of bullshit, sadly you had made some very good points but generalising about that is just crap. In my experience (also teaching) it wasmore often the kids shoved off to daycare that had no self-help skills as their parents felt so guilty they overindulged and had poor discipline.  However it was always a mixed bag and they all got their in the end.

I am currently a SAHM - I don’t need to justify my choice,  I feel it’s best for MY family and MY children. For the record though my 4 yr old can tie her own shoes and make her own sandwich and my 17 month old dresses herself so lets not stereotype.

AdamC says:

12:42pm | 07/04/11

Sarah T, did you stop and think that Teachy may be the one trying to justify her life choice and projecting her guilt and insecurities all over the place? That was my assumption.

And, Teachy, I hope you only use *asterisks* to emphasise words online. We wouldn’t want our little Millennial Generation darlings to pick up bad grammar habits, would we?

Fairsfair, what is a numpty? (I mean, I think I get the general idea ...)

Slick says:

01:02pm | 07/04/11

Sarah T

“the kids shoved off to daycare that had no self-help skills as their parents felt so guilty they overindulged and had poor discipline”

So although you are all grumpy and upset that he has made a generalisation, you then go on and make one about the working mums. You then state rather proudly that you are a SAHM.

Personally I think there are crap aspects from all generations. I have friends whos kids are horrid little brats that I can’t stand. Then others who have incredibly well behaved kids. It depends on so many more factors than people take into consideration.
Family situation (2 parents, 1 parent, gay parents, adopted, ect)
Parents upbringing (if they wanted to be like their parents or the oppersite)
Religion
Childs personality
Extended family members
Where they live/ who they see

I mean there are kids that live in abusive homes that go to daycare all day, were fed formula and are illiterate, who grow into wonderful people who never want to raise their children the same.
It is not all about parenting. Sometimes it is about the child.

fairsfair says:

01:17pm | 07/04/11

Adam, Urban dictionary defines it as:

“Someone who (sometimes unwittingly) by speech or action demonstrates a lack of knowledge or misconception of a particular subject or situation to the amusement of others.”

In basic terms - an fool who thinks they are real smart.

I agree with TeachyMcTeach - if you could be a fly on the wall and witness the behaviour of the majority of children when they are away from their parents (be it general activity or chosen behaviour), you would be shocked. I think the only thing that this can be put down to is parenting - something has changed within the past ten years. I only left school ten years ago - I remember what it was like to be there, what we were allowed to get up to and the expectations of us. I look at what goes on today and I womder how so much change occurred in such a short period of time. The cane was still in place when I started school for gods sake.

Sarah T says:

01:27pm | 07/04/11

No, I did not generalise - I pointed out what I had experienced and also said it was a mixed bag which was meant to imply that kids from both upbringings had good/bad self help skills, sorry that did not come across. 
Yes I am proud to be a SAHM but I have full respect for working parents.  I realise my choice of words was not the best but I was particularly annoyed while I wrote it so apologies to any working parents that took offence - none was meant.

Squeeze says:

02:10pm | 07/04/11

T-McT.  What? Just the kids? Plenty of adults who are just as bad as those kids.  Just look at the reaction to my comments yesterday that talking down the dangers of crossing roads should NEVER be done. WTF is wrong with these adults. Demanding satisfaction inside their little boxes. Does it really take war, famine or a depression for them to look at a world outside their boxes?

I wonder what they tell their kids while trying to score points against other adults.  Texting while driving isn’t that bad if you do it quick? Just a little bit over the speed limit or 0.05 every now and then is OK? Looking down the barrel of a loaded gun is OK? Stealing & lying is OK when it’s welfare or a mean insurance company?

Everyone have a look at Transparenct International’s Corruption Perceptions Index.  E.g. on wikipedia.  We rate ourselves above Germany, Japan, US, UK etc.  Seriously?  Bit conceited aren’t we? Hmmm.  Perhaps the Brits are right in saying we carry on like a bunch of ex-cons. And I thought they were just being precious when they got upset when Keating put his hand on the Queen. Maybe they wouldn’t have been so upset if we weren’t such spoilt white trash.  Loud mouth Australians. Cultural cringe anyone?

JuJu says:

02:13pm | 07/04/11

I agree 100%. How will these kids survive in the “real world” as they say? Will their parents call their workplace and abuse their boss when things don’t go their way? A friend of mine is a high school teacher and said school policy is now so lax at the demands of the parents that there is no marks deducted for a late assignment, so assignments just get handed in whenever. One student even had a note from his parents saying he shouldn’t have to do an assignment because it was “dumb”. I know each generation always looks down on the one below it but seriously? Is this for real?

jimmy says:

08:27am | 08/04/11

So you want the latchkey generation? Yet it’s this generation that are the pathetic parents you’re talking about. Doesn’t look like they fared too well, I’m afraid.

Squeeze says:

10:06am | 08/04/11

JuJu.  “Will their parents call their workplace and abuse their boss when things don’t go their way?” Or alternatively they could vote for legislators that bring in laws in the future to make it illegal to ever sack their kids.

Dogbolter says:

10:35am | 08/04/11

Sarah T and BK - truth hurts, doesn’t it? I agree totally with the great teacher. We have kids coming out of school unable to read or write, unable to look after themselves, and unable to actually work - all because of the helicopter parents that have pretty much ruined their lives. I’m sick of the attitude that people have kids as a status symbol - or who knows why the hell they have them - when they think their responsibility to the crotch-dropping ends after 9 months, and they expect the government to then look after them.

Biggest mistake ever was allowing payment to people to breed. And to all of those who say that we have to be nice to that generation because they weill be working and looking after us in our old age…  no. Welfare will be in short supply not because of all the old people on a pension, but because of all your lovely kids on unemployment benefits because of your nability to equip them with life skills to work. This current and previous parenting generations make me sick to my stomacj. Pathetic, the lot of you, and your poor little offspring.

Can’t read, can’t write, can’t communicate, can’t look after themselves, no use, no job prospects, no people skills, no work ethics, no hope.

Star says:

01:02pm | 08/04/11

Dogbolter, you disgust me. How dare you use such foul terminology to refer to children. You are an absolute disgrace. I can’t believe the moderator let this through.

Ali says:

05:12pm | 08/04/11

I also agreed with everything up until this comment. ‘Invariably, raised by militantly over-protective stay-at-home mothers who do *everything* for their children to try and justify their life choice.’
Are you saying I would be a better parent if I let someone else do the parenting for me and send my child to Daycare? Well I am not apologising in believing that a very young child should be brought up directly by the people who love them. I don’t have anything against parents who send their children to daycare, it is just not the way I chose to do it.

Another Frustrated Teacher says:

11:17pm | 08/04/11

I am a high school teacher who is abused by the students almost every second day in some way or another.  I grew up in a loving close knit family with my mum a SAHM and I had never heard language like that before until I became a teacher.  My students in year ten don’t even write their own name with a capital letter and can’t read a novel on their own- I have to read the entire novel to them!  I am sorry but many of the SAHM nowadays in this area are not at home “mothers”.  They simply do not mother they just stay at home and many are intoxicated. 

I am going to be judgmental of these types of “SAHM” because I believe they are doing the community a disservice and should not be given a “parenting” payment until they start parenting!  In fact, we should all judge bad parenting when kids are neglected or treated badly.  My family were poor but my mother still managed to have all four of us kids properly fed, well dressed, clean, and read to each night and she never received the type of benefits that parents nowadays get. 
My parents were not highly educated themselves but they still made sure we did our homework, respected our teachers and taught us how to behave.  I just can’t understand how difficult that could possibly be for others when there is so much more help available now.

We should not however, judge people like Jackie O who is obviously not going to beat, starve, abuse her child like 90 per cent of how my students are treated.  Please target the right people when you are going to start judging.

Black Friday Baby says:

10:12am | 09/04/11

Pedagogue!

b says:

09:53am | 10/04/11

Only rotten teachers blame the parents.

Another Frustrated Teacher says:

11:05am | 10/04/11

Sorry Black Friday and b if I think your kids should go to class properly dressed for school and not hungry…If I’m a pedagogue for that then what is this world coming to?

I WILL blame parents who take drugs at home in front of their children.  I WILL blame parents who drink excessively every night.  I will blame parents who abuse their children.  I will blame parents who starve their children.  There are 580 students at my school and over 70 percent of them are abused in some way or another.  The nearby juvenile detention centre ends up with most of these kids at some point. 

Bad teacher?  Well the state didn’t think so when I was awarded the teacher of the year award two years ago.

It sounds to me that parents are defensive nowadays and looking to blame anyone because they simply are not parenting.

Yvonne says:

11:32am | 10/04/11

I teach at the same “hard to staff” school as Another Frustrated Teacher and we both teach in the same department so between the two of us we see about one third of all the students.  I have to say there are A LOT of angry kids waiting to explode at our school.  One particular student walked into my class and before I had a chance to say good morning I was told to F%^k off.  This student was sent down to the front office and later in the day the deputy told me she was very upset because her mum left in the middle of the night without saying goodbye for the twentieth time time to live with her latest boyfriend. 

Another student I see often crying with her head in her hands in the hallway is so traumatised she told me there was no point in carrying on.  Her mother was a heroin addict, her father an alcoholic who spends all the money on whiskey so she comes to school so hungry she’s almost falling over.  This girl spent most of her life in different foster homes under the protection of DCP.

Another student who has three sisters was forcibly removed from their home because they were all sexually abused by one parent.  They are split up all over the place and recently the eldest was also left by her foster parents. 

10 percent of my students last year (I had 142 students) didn’t have a jumper in winter because “mum can’t afford one” (jumpers are now down to 5 dollars at the school and you can pay later)

20 percent came to school hungry or missed one meal during the day.

90 percent came to school with some form of oversized junk food (large chips, 1 litre coke, entire bag of party mix lollies etc)

EVERY kid had a sad story.

Because of my colleagues we provide them with a breakfast, teachers keep food items in class for those who are hungry and get hunger headaches.  Our car park is full from 8 in the morning till 6 in the evening.  Please don’t tell us that we’re asking for too much or that we are too pedantic we just want your kids to come to us properly looked after.  Surely you can’t argue about that!

Ce Jay says:

08:42pm | 10/04/11

well mr teachy teach, i do agree to some extent, but why am i paying hundreds of dollars each year to put my kids thru school, when they arent learning anything at school, because the teacher is toooooo fn lazy to spend an extra bit of time with them, and just assis the brainy kids who dont need help. Instead send it all home for the parents to teach them. And if you havent noticed but the way you do sums etc has changed, and I havent used anything learnt in school but basic maths and english since I left school over 20 years ago. How are we to help our kids when you keep changing the way you do things and not inform the parent. And its not always the parent. theres not much a parent can do to their child to punish them, because of society these days, and how does the school help to teach resolution skills etc, when the school sends them home when they do the slightest thing wrong,’ yay do something wrong and get sent home, think i will try that with my boss when i get a job’......it’s a topic that could be debated on and on, but we are all different, but people are soooo quick to judge when they dont know each family’s situation, yet no-one will offer help or give it when asked. So many parents me for one has begged for help from schools, medical and other govt agencies only to be ignored. Some support would be nice instead of judgment and bagging.

Leah says:

02:21pm | 07/04/11

I’m not a parent, but from my observations it’s remarkable how many parents are, for some reason, incapable of feeding their children well. A young-mother friend of mine told me recently how when she was dropping her 6 year old off at school, she saw another child open his lunchbox. Inside, every single item was pre-packaged, processed food with not an iota of nutrition to be seen. I saw this in the preschool where I did work experience when I was 15. My mother sees it in her preschool too. Seriously, even if you are strapped for time in the morning, how hard is it to include an apple or a banana in your kid’s lunchbox?

As for letting them play the games they want to play, if I let kids always do that (I do volunteer work at a primary aged kids’ club) we would end up with kids in hospital. You might be ok with your kids injuring themselves and ending up in hospital, I am not ok with kids injuring OTHER kids and landing THEM in hospital. In my experience, there are games you really do need to say ‘no’ to.

Lee says:

07:24am | 08/04/11

How hard is it to not judge though? Yeah some parents may not feed children how you would feed them but have you considered maybe financial restictions stop them from just giving them an apple or a bananna? How do you know they dont have four other children and one income? This is exactly what the article talks about.

BTW- yeah I dont agree with giving kids processed foods all the time, but it isnt my place to insert that opinion on a stranger.

Col the Pariah says:

11:54am | 08/04/11

In my experience (3 kids) processed foods cost more than fruit…

Otherwise, I am all for not telling parents how to bring up their children, however, it seems to me a lot just don’t know what bringing up children actually means.  A lot of parents want to be their kid’s best friends, they insist on shielding them from all social awkwardness and badness, they insist their children are the centre of attention, and they never listen to any criticism of their child even if it is constructive.

Funnily enough, children react well to boundaries, staying firm to principles, being made to follow rules such as you must eat what is on your plate.  I know a mother with three kids who actually makes three different dinners on occasion as the kids all wanted something different.  I remember the fight I had with my mother when liver night on Tuesday came around, was never going to get out of having to eat it though…

b says:

10:10am | 10/04/11

Oh, for heavens sake!  When there are four children in the house, fruit doesn’t last until Friday, and not everyone has time to pop into the shops on a week night after work - not with four kids in tow. 
I can’t believe there are some parents who have so little to think about in their own lives that they are actually looking into the lunchboxes of other kids and making judgments.  Pretty embarrassing for them to be admitting to that - which is why they do it anonymously online.

Bitten says:

08:04am | 07/04/11

Mim, you need to look them dead in the eyes and smile sweetly and invite them “What are you trying to say by that comment, really?” Watch them turn red and try and squirm out of having to make their judgment explicitly, which would of course expose them for the moron that they are.

Mim says:

08:09am | 07/04/11

I was so cross, that my fingers were typing too quickily -
That was back OFF ladies….!

Michael says:

09:11am | 07/04/11

Remind them that you have a life.

AW says:

09:22am | 07/04/11

Do you know what I’ve come to realise from most women I deal with who also make comments like this? They’re unhappy. They’re unfulfilled. They’re envious. They like people to think THEY think they’re better than them, with their perfect little stay at home mumness and all the rest of it. But really they’re insecure and wish they had the opportunity to mix with other adults, make some money, and spend some time away from their kids. When I wanted to return to work, my MIL told me I had the most important job in the world - being a mother. I said just because I’m a mother doesn’t mean I can’t also be something else. Don’t let them get to you mim!

Michael says:

10:02am | 07/04/11

My neighbours wife is a stay at home mum, her boys are at school now, she was driving us all mad in our cul de sac, complaining about dogs barking at the postie, and cars coming and going.

So i had a firm chat with her about getting out of the house a bit, maybe getting some part time work to ease the boredom and spare us from having her pounce as we got out of our cars to complain or “suggest” ways we could all make changes in our lives to ease her irritation.

Needless to say she doesn’t talk to me anymore, but she did take the advice and everybody including her seems to have a much more enjoyable and harmonious feel about them now.

Sarah T says:

12:22pm | 07/04/11

What’s with the SAHM bashing on this thread? Is it suddenly a crime to look after your own kids?

I’m sorry they said that to you Mim, that’s very wrong, people need to learn to respect each others decisions.

Wynston Cruso says:

01:28pm | 07/04/11

Yeah I seriously wouldn’t take anything those douche bags say to heart. Many of them are stay at home mums because they’re unemployable having not had an education past year 10 themselves. Funny how they know everything without actually knowing anything.

Seth Brundle says:

04:37pm | 07/04/11

These remarks are typical of working “mums”, desperately trying to justify to themselves and the world that, despite the fact that they have no input into the raising of their own children, they are still somehow “responsible parents”.  I’ve got news for you, you are not a parent.  A real mother WILL stay home with the kids and make the effort to raise them right, not palm off the responsibility to someone else.  So sure, all you woking mums, high-five each other and smile in condescension at the stay at home mums, but you are not fooling anyone, least of all your own children.  It is very clear to them that you have chosen yourself and your money over them.

Pamela says:

06:30pm | 07/04/11

Wow everyone - the original article above is about how we need to back off and stop telling everyone how to parent. And then you read this thread of people bashing each other for choosing to be a working mum/stay at home mum!! Seriously! Make the right choice for you and your family, with careful consideration, and then be happy with it. Don’t be so judgmental as to think anyone who does something different from you is WRONG - perhaps their situation/personality/finances/kids are totally different to yours. And that’s ok.

b says:

10:13am | 10/04/11

They are jealous.  Take it as a compliment.

Gavin says:

10:36am | 07/04/11

Philip, it’s the whole idea that working and parenting aren’t necessarily mutually exclusive. Those parents who don’t work so they can stay at home aren’t bludging leeches, and those who do work aren’t selfish uncaring people. Don’t knock people who have the intelligence and ability to do both. They are the truly elite in our society.

Henry Morgan says:

11:28am | 08/04/11

No, Gavin, they ARE mutually exclusive.  If the problems we are seeing with the more recent generations have taught us anything, it is that modern parenting (working mums, no spanking etc..) does NOT work, and society as a whole pays the price for the mistakes made by modern parents.

Star says:

12:00pm | 08/04/11

Henry and Philip - rubbish. Your comments are inflammatory and clearly targeted towards woman (who you clearly consider should be barefoot and pregnant). Or do you consider my hard-working husband who often works an 80-hour week ‘not a parent?’

Proudly Nullagravida says:

07:19pm | 11/04/11

“I blame our toxic modern life which hates children”

So all those parents-only parking bays, the baby bonuses, the Fam Tax A and B, the private health insurance that is free for children (when their parents pay for it), the child-care rebates, the paid parental leave, the free schooling, the education rebates, kids eat/stay/fly free, the family passes to events…all that not good enough for you?

NicoleG says:

08:21am | 07/04/11

Not once did Anthony refer to his kids as angels who can do no wrong. You’re the type of person the article talks about. But hey, thanks for proving his point.

Ches says:

08:38am | 07/04/11

Love that last comment. Totally agree.

Bear says:

02:23pm | 07/04/11

I once babysat a girl who said she didn’t have to do her homework because if it wasn’t done she would just tell the teacher it was her mothers fault. Apparently, according to this 9 year old, its her mums job to MAKE her do it, and if she isn’t made, then she doesn’t have to.  It was the same excuse for any other simple task she was asked to do, including basic things like putting rubbish in the bin once she’d finished eating (that was thrown on the floor instead). I’ve seen her do it in front of the mother too and she doesn’t bat an eye. Bizarre.

fairsfair says:

09:04am | 07/04/11

Consider it taken away. Off you go MrS - do you thing.

AW says:

09:19am | 07/04/11

LOL! Hilarious. You should have your own column on The Punch.

I suppose EVERYONE in parliament deserves a medal just for being there.

Likes Joining Dots says:

10:12am | 07/04/11

Well said Mr Speaker.

Now if only I could somehow lose the image of angry villagers with pitchforks and burning torches chanting “Postal. Postal ...”

PaulB says:

10:32am | 07/04/11

Later members Marky and CJ were also unrelated.  Strange.

PTom says:

10:42am | 07/04/11

Macca,
Since when has it been competition between women? The same thing about parneting also occur with men.
Like all the blokes who make comments on how they wish they could stay at home and watch TV all day.

TJ says:

01:12pm | 07/04/11

I have to agree that men can be competitive with their children, my partner is currently wagering on our child and it’s not even born yet, they have bets going, as a couple of his mates girls are due around the same time as me, due date, gender, measurements, first to hold their head up, and I expect when the little ones start crawling there will be a white line and the babies will be put behind it and told to race, i just shake my head

Troy says:

09:57am | 07/04/11

Stephy, you’re right, there is the occasional thing we might observe in public where a parent doesn’t seem to be getting it right .  But I think Anthony would agree that for the relatively few times this genuinely happens, there is a LOT of finger pointing and self-righteous commentary from the cheap seats.  You know, using your example, what would you think if, for example, the child had scooted off when the parent wasn’t looking.  She might have thought the child was in the store with her.  She might have been paying for a purchase and totally unaware that the kid, who was there beside her a minute ago, was now out in the mall?  Stuff like that happens all the time.  Something similar has happened to me at the beach.  Shit happens!  You try your best but sometimes you make a mistake or fate steps in to throw you a curve ball.  My parents made little mistakes with me.  I’ve probably made them with my kids.  But we learn from it and move on.  No need to obsessively judge each other otherwise we should be open to being judged ourselves.  God forbid.

Markus says:

10:28am | 07/04/11

@Troy, if the parent in your hypothetical still acted like a complete bitch to me for daring to make sure her little kid was not lost or hurt, I’d continue to judge.

Stephy says:

10:43am | 07/04/11

I agree Troy, every parent has things that they’ve accidentally done, or done wrong and not realised, etc… I know my mum left my baby brother in the supermarket trolley and went home accidentally one day, totally forgot about him till she pulled in the driveway and started freaking out. It’s also very hard to watch toddlers all the time - my sister has not only wandered down into the paddocks with the sheep when she was a tot, she also pulled a kettle of boiling water over herself. These things are mistakes parents make and no doubt feel terrible about themselves. In the case of the girl in the mall, with the pitch that girl was screaming at and the fact the mum came straight after the child stopped screaming, I think it was more likely the mum was using it as a punishment - you know, the “I’m going to leave you here if you don’t behave!” sort of thing. It was intentional, leaving her in the middle of the mall, and the shop didn’t have a window that you could spy on the child from. It just made me grind my teeth - I can totally understand parents making accidents, I can’t understand intentionally leaving your child unsupervised in the middle of a mall ( and in Corio, nonetheless, scum central of Geelong).

I can’t stand finger pointers either :( (at risk of me sounding bit like a hypocrite, trust me I don’t intend to). Especially over things that are perfectly natural - like breastfeeding. As a breastfeeding mother it gets awkward every time I’m out and my child needs a feed. Every time its the question “What do I do?”. It’d be nice just to breastfeed without raised eyebrows passing by.

Squeeze says:

01:09pm | 07/04/11

“I have never been so judged” Or never felt so judged.  The bigger the undertaking the more sensitive I am to criticism.  My car - whatever losers, it’s just a car. My home - yeah I have occasionally been sensitive to a particularly harsh comments but, meh. My career - my financial reward counters any judgments.  But my child - I will have no greater undertaking in my life.

b says:

10:34am | 10/04/11

I seem to recall my friends judging my parenting when I had my first child.  Probably why I drifted away from all my old friends.  My daughter is now 16 and I couldn’t ask for a better child - doing well at school, part time job, great friends. 
People judge - it is how they justify their own existence.

Lee says:

07:37am | 08/04/11

Are you back on that again? Hilarious.

Squeeze says:

09:54am | 08/04/11

Just left you a response on Alissa’s page Lee.

Lee says:

10:05am | 08/04/11

It was a great giggle- needed it on this gorgeous autumnal Friday.

fairsfair says:

09:44am | 07/04/11

faux journo - love it!

I am in the same boat. I think he picked the wrong forum to go on his little tirade. I can only assume that he thinks because he has raised all those kids with the noses he has done a fine job. Perhaps he has, but ambushing someone about something so touchy/persona. on live telly (that you work with) is probs not the best path to take.

He looks like Mr Potato Head - especially during Movember. You should have stuck to that 5min sound bite finance update Mr Koch. You did it well.

Elphaba says:

10:06am | 07/04/11

@fairsfair, I can’t stand him.  I can’t STAND him and the whole bloody show.  The abominable way they reported Cyclone Yasi (which I know you will empathise on - I have a brother and sister-in-law living up there) was unconscionable.

Calling someone namby-pamby on national television is absolutely ridiculous.  Think what you want in private, but on TV, he should just stick to what he knows.  But then of course, like you said, his bulletins would be 5 minutes long because he knows bugger all.

Journalist my arse.  He’s a parasite.

NicoleG says:

10:24am | 07/04/11

Gooby little upstart and Mr Potato head. Hahaha. Geez you two come up with some classics.

Elphaba says:

10:55am | 07/04/11

Thanks NicoleG!  You’re not so bad yourself! 

AdamC says:

11:29am | 07/04/11

My pet peeve with Sunrise is the Nat and Mel bimbo it up. (‘Aww Kochie - tee hee hee’, etc.) It’s just embarrassing. And Kochie’s not so great either. Such unwatchable drivel. 

And I guess he does look like Mr Potato Head.

Elphaba says:

11:35am | 07/04/11

“bimbo it up”

Well said AdamC, that’s exactly what they do.  They giggle over him like he’s a benevolent old Dad-joke telling klutz.  *shudder*

Robert says:

10:08am | 07/04/11

So, what do you think about my father?

Markus says:

10:33am | 07/04/11

Your mother was a hamster, and your father smelt of elderberries.

Robert says:

11:30am | 07/04/11

Thanks for highlighting my example Markus. My mother was indeed a hamster but my father is still alive so he still smells of elderberries (Monty Python <3).
@Chris - Yes you are entitled to an opinion. However, there is nothing stating you have the right to express your opinion.

Michael says:

10:57am | 07/04/11

So buy having and minding my own business, I’m building a little island around myself to keep other humans out? So if I find myself irrate when my wife is told that bottle feeding is inferior to breastfeeding by some know-nothing-know-it-all, am I simply responding to someone entering my “bubble”, as you put it?

hot tub political machine says:

11:20am | 07/04/11

Michael, I don’t have a clue who you are or how you live. My comment was a broad one on society, no need to take it personally.

Mahhrat says:

02:05pm | 07/04/11

@Michael, that’s exactly what you’re doing by “minding your own business”.

We’re a culture of silos.  We have mp3s to drown out our the noise, sunglasses to hide our line of sight.  We have internet forums where reasonably like-minded souls hang out, and we don’t even know all our neighbours, let alone the people next to them.

We define our communities purely by our interest, and surround ourselves with like-minded people.

People are slowly losing the ability to interact with conflict on any constructive level, hence the finger pointing and the competetiveness - in our attempts to justify ourselves, we end up seeking to lay blame at the feet of others.

Our personal space has grown beyond just the foot or two around our persons, and is now our lifestyle, our material goods, our career, everything.  We have no ability to tolerate disagreement - to just “get over it”.

That I can easily read the defensiveness in your own post just now only reinforces the situation I’ve described.  That’s no judgment either, but just how it’s come across to me.

Sad one says:

08:26am | 08/04/11

here here, thats exactly the problem. Its a catch-22 because while I love my little island, and beware anyone who tries to enter it, I also bemoan the complete lack of support, relationships, the massive sense of isolation and lonliness I have created, trying to create my own little island bubble. Society has lost so much that was good before and replaced it with other stuff, that maybe isnt bad, but it has displaced some of the good stuff which is unfortunate.

matt says:

09:27am | 10/04/11

brilliant comments. it frustrates me the culture we’ve adopted in the ‘burbs’. blow up the shopping centres and go back to european style main streets. walk your dog, read in the park as a family, have your kids with you for a pub lunch, chat to others, listen to other viewpoints, without ranting. australia would be a much better place to live.

b says:

10:42am | 10/04/11

I like the little island.  Where I don’t have to deal with others and their wacko ideas about everything.  I’ll go and do my thing at work all day, communicate, interact, deal with the nutters, but when I come home, I want my island.

Gavin says:

11:47am | 07/04/11

You misinterpret the article Shane, and are therefore comparing apples with oranges. You are speaking about reactions to juvenile criminal acts, and assert correctly that these parents need to be spoken to. What Anthony is speaking about is the budinskies who comment on trivial matters like Jackie O feeding her baby in the correct position, or whether a dad has put enough sunscreen on their toddler at the beach, or whether little Timmy should be climbing that tree. If you are intelligent enough to see the difference, then you will retract Anthony’s article as being rubbish, which it isn’t.

Leah says:

02:31pm | 07/04/11

exactly right. I see primary-aged kids out in the streets at 11pm on a school night and wonder what their parents are doing. The parent might not be abusing the child, in fact they might get alone just fine but they are NOT doing the right thing by their kids or by society by allowing their kid to grow up without boundaries. So often these kids will be the ones who end up on drugs and alcohol then petty crime or even more serious crime, in juvenile detention centres at age 15 for robbing a store to get money for drugs. (I have friends who do volunteer work at a local juvenile detention centre and the stories you hear really make you wonder about the parents).  And the parent never did anything “unimaginably cruel” to warrant Community Services’ attention.

Kate says:

06:47pm | 07/04/11

Mean Mummy, I’d say most teachers and childcare workers would applaud your decision! Teaching children to share is incredibly important.

Bec says:

12:46pm | 07/04/11

I once saw a feral scream at her toddler to “get the f*#k on the train”. There really is no hope for these kids. How can you possibly expect them to grow up to be functioning adults when they’re raised like this?

Markus says:

02:09pm | 07/04/11

I witnessed a feral teaching her young kid the alphabet on a train.
“A is for Apple, B is for Banana….... F is for F**k”.
I guess at least she is trying?

Jayse says:

09:58pm | 07/04/11

Markus: a friend of my nephew was taught B for Bank and C for Centrelink.

K says:

07:39am | 08/04/11

Isnt this an opinion column? Just saying…..

CABAL says:

01:56pm | 08/04/11

Land of the Free whoever told you that is your enemy…

b says:

10:49am | 10/04/11

What, you think a woman can’t carry a baby in her arms across the road without dropping it?  Our grandmothers breast fed the bubs in the fields while continuing to work.  Gee, if a person can’t breast feed and walk at the same time, they don’t deserve the title of woman.

Shane From Melbourne says:

02:57pm | 07/04/11

How about I take responsibility for my actions as an adult and parents take responsibility for the way they raise their kids? Sounds like a fair division of responsibility. Also, as long as my taxpayer dollar is being used to subsidize breeding and middle class family welfare, I will damn well have a say on the matter.

Markus says:

03:02pm | 07/04/11

As a Gen Y I’m already taking the responsibility of my entire generation being responsible for the world falling apart, despite us not being the ones in charge of anything.

Plus in all the examples you gave, I’d be more than happy to take the responsibility of smacking the little brat

Vince says:

05:18pm | 07/04/11

@Shane, “How about I take responsibility for my actions as an adult and parents take responsibility for the way they raise their kids?”  Yes, ok, then.  The parents worry about raising their kids and you worry about taking care of yourself.  That’s exactly Sharwood’s point, you nonny! 

@Markus “slap the brat”.  Yeah, parents sure should be taking “advice” from people like you.  Maybe a court order to keep you away from children would be a more appropriate way for you to help.

Sad one says:

08:48am | 08/04/11

you are welcome Kelly.
this really is the bigger picture. i am confident that I fall into this 98.7% and I am confident my kids will grow up to be decent members of future society, along with the kids of the rest of the 98.7% of parents doing the best job we can :D

Michael says:

11:05am | 08/04/11

“Just don’t give any unsolicited advice to anyone about anything.”
Exactly! It’s not our place, we need to back off and worry about our patch. Well put.

Lee says:

07:08am | 08/04/11

*appaluse*
heartily agree! People just need to move on- strangers choices dont exactly impact on them so what do they have to gain by judging them etc?

b says:

10:55am | 10/04/11

They spend millions of dollars advertising the health help line as a great service.  I can’t believe anyone could be so rude.  Obviously just couldn’t be bothered doing her job and wanted you off the line.  Good on you for standing your ground.  Ignore the idiots.

Star says:

10:42am | 08/04/11

First things first - Amanda, don’t refer to them as ‘the little darlings’ or ‘the little gems’ - guaranteed to annoy most parents - it’s rude and patronising.
Second, I think you are well within your rights to say something if they are doing something dangerous or something that poses a threat to you.  In the event, it they are not your kids and if you think they are behaving in a dangerous manner and you can’t find the parents - maybe alert store management?
Otherwise, maybe just learn to deal with it. Adults do things that annoy/impact me all the time (far worse than kids). I would dearly like to walk down the road outside my office without my lungs being corrupted by disgusting cigarette smoke (I’m an asthmatic) but if I stopped to berate every selfish smoker…well, I’d never get anywhere.
I am,  however, amazed to hear you have kids pulling stuff OUT of your trolley - this has never happened to me. You must live in an area with interesting denizens - I suspect what the little kids do are the least of your problems!

Amanda says:

03:39pm | 08/04/11

Star - thanks for your response.  Little gem was the most polite term I could come up with -  I absolutely recognise it is a patronising term, one I used deliberately and one that I wouldn’t use referring to offspring that acted, well, remotely decently.  You’re right however, the kids probably are the least of my problem, but still a problem none the less.  And hard to ignore when interfering with your space, property and person.  I’ll give the store managemnet a whirl next time,....for unfortunately, there will be a next time…..

Star says:

08:31pm | 08/04/11

Thanks Amanda, it is always interesting to hear the perspective from a person without kids; kinda reminds me of the time before I had mine.
(let’s just say for me having kids was a very humbling experience).
I’d say I’d speak for the majority of parents who wouldn’t mind someone telling off their child if he/she was doing something dangerous or terribly annoying. A firm, clear, strict tone would probably do the trick - (needless to say I would prefer no yelling unless absolutely necessary)
BUT….. there are some crazy and difficult people around (parents and non-parents alike) ..so who knows the reception you might get from the mum or dad? Or you might get them on a bad day, no sleep etc… I really had to bite my toungue one day my baby was sick and crying - was at chemist for medicine and someone muttered to shut the little brat up - gee thanks lady, thanks for the support.
Anyway - good luck - hope things improve—just remember kids at supermarkets are generally at their worst . At the very least, think of it as free contraceptives!

b says:

11:00am | 10/04/11

What would you do if it was an adult doing the same thing?  Or maybe a disabled adult?  Perhaps politely make them aware that they are interfering with your comfort, or maybe move away.  You can’t get involved - why would you bother?  It is pretty simple really.  I’ve actually never seen anything like you describe happening anywhere I have ever been in 40 years, so maybe you are hanging out in the wrong places.

Amanda says:

12:18am | 11/04/11

b - so I’m in the wrong for going to the supermarket?  That is a curious perspective.  I’m certainly not ‘hanging out’ there, I’m there to get my groceries and go.  To compare an out of control kid to someone with a disability staggers me.  Having worked for over a decade advocating for the intellectually and physically disabled that comment disgusts me by it’s flippant and insensitve nature.  And yes, if it was an adult I would take it up with them because what I’ve experienced constitutes assault.  You’ve never seen a child behave as I’ve described in your forty years? - then maybe you should get out more.  I was asking a polite question - and you’ve just chosen to interpret it in the most obtuse and antagonistic fashion.  Real helpful.

lulu says:

01:25pm | 08/04/11

Hey Gedi Warrier, I dont believe kids are resilient at all!  That was a term invented by and used by selfish parents who know what they are doing isnt best for the kids but want to do it anyway!  Thats why we have so many poor kids in therapy and counselling.  Because they are so resilient

b says:

11:06am | 10/04/11

I have nothing to say about fat pig Sandilands, but maybe Jacki O wanted to get back to work.  Its no fun at all sitting at home with a sleeping baby.  Some of us do love our jobs you know.

K says:

11:18am | 08/04/11

advice is very very different to critical judgement.

Susan says:

04:04pm | 08/04/11

I believe it’s degrees of the same thing. However, so many writers this week are suggesting no-one should actually ever say anything negative to a parent. They are failing to distinguish the issue themselves in fact.  We all judge every minute of our day. We make judgments when we respond to each other. But of course, as you suggest It’s how we respond that’s the issue.  So, how about some dialogue about offering decent, well meant advice e.g. how about a baby harness JO?..as opposed to just slam dunking.

K says:

10:47pm | 09/04/11

even something negative can be dressed nicely to get a point across (well the first time at least!!) without alientating the other party, this goes for everything not just parenting.

Dogbolter says:

07:29pm | 08/04/11

It’s not bad parenting, it’s child abuse. But what do you expect from people like that? By the way, the kid ain’t that cute or beautiful, and if I had a dog with a face like the mother’s, I’d shave it’s bum and make it walk around backwards.

Star says:

01:50pm | 08/04/11

Well my grandmother ladelled gin down my dad’s throat when he cried; and advised me to let the baby sleep on its stomach and coat the dummy with honey. My mother-in-law allowed corporal punishment and had black-and-blue kids terrified of their elders and still scarred by it. I prefer to rely on a combination of books, instinct and advice of people whom I consider good parents - and shock! Horror! - many of these are members of my own generation

Star says:

01:50pm | 08/04/11

Well my grandmother ladelled gin down my dad’s throat when he cried; and advised me to let the baby sleep on its stomach and coat the dummy with honey. My mother-in-law allowed corporal punishment and had black-and-blue kids terrified of their elders and still scarred by it. I prefer to rely on a combination of books, instinct and advice of people whom I consider good parents - and shock! Horror! - many of these are members of my own generation

b says:

11:10am | 10/04/11

I agree with Star.  I don’t think we should be taking too much parenting advice from previous generations.

Old bag says:

03:32pm | 08/04/11

Breastfeeding *is* better for your baby. Newborns are unsettled and need to feed frequently. That is what being a mother is about in the early days. Is there anything else you mught feel to be too inconvenient about parenting that you’d like to offload? Nappy changing? Helping baby to sleep? You can justify any selfish decision you like, but your baby is now getting second best. Congratulations!

New Daddy says:

09:28pm | 08/04/11

Thanks old bag.  If you had bothered to justify your comment about breasfeeding, I might have listened - instead of thinking to myself that it’s idiots like you who take a relatively minor point and make incorrect assumptions about everything else.

Proud formula mum says:

10:03pm | 08/04/11

Congratulations NewDaddy. I am a mum of a 3yo and due for #2 in August. I couldn’t produce enough milk and it was recommended by a paediatrician to feed with both breastmilk and formula - despite this my supply never increased and we switched completely to formula. At the time we were comp feeding the paediatrician diagnosed my newborn with dehydration, and I felt worse that I was starving my baby trying to do the “right” thing than I ever did giving her formula. Within days I had a completely different baby and she is now a happy, intelligent, healthy 3yo who’s had about half a dozen illnesses in her short life. Good luck to you and your wife
@Old bag - you may call this couple’s and my decision “selfish” but the fact of the matter is not feeding your baby enough would be considered some sort of abuse. My baby was DEHYDRATED - she wasn’t well and she had lost too much weight. For her, actually being fed was better and best for her. Just because “breast is best” you sound like you would’ve preferred me to just let her starve? You have no right to tell people what’s best for their baby in their own situation. If the baby is starving formula is a viable alternative.
I am not knocking breastfeeding mums - good luck to them, I would’ve been happy to do it if my child wasn’t suffering for it. I’m just saying, especially in the spirit of article above, that maybe you need to lay off the formula feeding mums. They are doing what’s best for their baby and the bottom line is they are being well nourished.

NewDaddy says:

08:48am | 09/04/11

Thank you Proud Formula Mum.  Good Luck with your Baby #2 also.

mumamia says:

06:39pm | 09/04/11

Funny about the breastfeeding vs formula feeding when i had my little boy 5mths ago it took a few days for my milk to come in properly and i had the the midwives trying to force us to formula feed our baby. We had learnt with our second daughter that we weren’t going to do the same thing as she didn’t want to be breastfed after having the formula.  If you ever have a c/section and i have had three two emergency c/sections and one elective it takes a while for your milk to come in. I was awake for 24hrs expressing milk and feeding our last night in hospital so we could go home the next day and was made to feel bad for not having enough milk. and yet all the midwives are suppose to be breast is best.

b says:

11:16am | 10/04/11

Good on you and your wife for putting aside that selfish “I’m the best breast feeder in the world” attitude to do the best for your baby.  It sounds like you know you have done the right thing.  There is absolutely no difference - as you can see, your baby is thriving.  At five weeks, you’ve had the first taste of the judgments you will be experiencing for the next 20 odd years.  Learn to ignore it and trust your own instincts.  Noone will ever know your child as well as you.

Ali says:

11:17pm | 11/04/11

‘certain seedy undertones’. hmm I am not sure exactly what that means but as a mother who breastfed my daughter for 18 months I do feel offended by this. I do not know why people like yourself have to justify your reason to bottle feed with always a hint of negativitely towards breastfeeding.

Of course the private hospital have clear preferances for breastfeeding, that is because it IS the best option for your baby afterall and that is a proven fact. Sure it doesn’t work for everyone but the hospital should be doing everything it can to support breastfeeding in the first place. Imagine if they did not - Oh the outcry about ‘what they should have told us’........

Look, the fact is that breastfeeding is NOT the norm, women who can successfully breastfeed like myself are the aliens. The statictics prove that. Believe me I put up with my fair share of dirty looks, negative comments and judgements from family and friends CONSTANTLY when I was only trying to do what was best for my baby.

Imagine if you were asked to leave a premisis because of the method you chose to feed your child or told that you were disgusting and unhygenic or ‘seedy’. It is so commonly accepted in our society that babies refuse the breast but what about babies that refuse the bottle? It’s been mentioned that breastfeeding should not be allowed in public, Imagine being told to lock yourself away until your child is weaned.

I understand that breastfeeding didn’t work for you but please try and refrain from trying to make breastfeeding sound like a horrible ‘seedy’ thing, because it isn’t. I am proud of the way I fed my child, she has always been a very happy and content baby, luckily I never experienced extended crying or colic.  I also wouldn’t change those so called ‘sleepless’ nights getting up to feed her & cuddling her back to sleep in a second!

b says:

11:26am | 10/04/11

Surely noone expects a woman to remain stuck at home once the baby is seven months old.  With my first, I arranged to be off work for a month and was climbing the walls after two weeks.  Noone has ever criticised me for dropping the bubs and getting back to work the next day - probably wouldn’t dare as women with small children usually have little patience for fools.  When people say to me that they don’t know how I do it, I assume they are admiring my time management skills.  I certainly haven’t time for whimps and people who have nothing better to do than sit around passing judgments on my life.

Kika says:

05:06pm | 08/04/11

Both spellings are acceptable ’ judgment or judgement’ both are fine.

Tom says:

08:27pm | 08/04/11

This is a response to Kika:

I just looked it up in the dictionary and found that your statement is correct.

b says:

11:29am | 10/04/11

Does anyone ever consider that kids, just like adults, are all different.  Some are just born obnoxious.  It doesn’t have to be anyone fault.  Sometimes, it is genetics.  And we need all types.  Can’t we just love them all the way they are?

Sam says:

09:34am | 11/04/11

It wasn’t a coincidence that the obnoxious kids were those with parents who were oblivious to their child’s behaviour. They’d ask why their child was told to sit on the side of the pool for misbehaving, because “oh that’s just her way”. Pushing other kids, talking back to the teacher and refusing to follow instruction isn’t just a three or four year old’s “way”, unless they’ve learnt they can get away with it at home.

b says:

11:32am | 10/04/11

Um, why can’t a woman walk across the road while breast feeding?  How in the hell does that affect anyone else?  Noone would even know they were doing it.  Bizarre that anyone can possibly criticize that, of all things.

Mum of Twins says:

08:21am | 10/04/11

Totally agree with you, Katty.  My mum worked full time, and this was at a time when mums didn’t go to work (back in the 70s and early 80s).  Sure, I would have liked her to be home after school, volunteering at tuckshop etc, but I knew that my parents both had to work to make ends meet - that was just reality.  When my children were born, my husband and I were in a good financial position, so I had 4 years off work. I was lucky to have that time with them.  I now work part-time and it works well.  Every family is different, do what suits you.  Don’t judge other people’s choices.

b says:

11:37am | 10/04/11

I would dearly have loved for my stay at home mother to work when I was growing up.  I saw what she suffered being completely dependent upon her husband.  She had no life.  As a child, I felt guilty - that it was my fault she couldn’t have more because she was home with me. 
These days, most stay at home mothers got back to work once the kids hit school.  Doing anything else is probably a bit selfish because it heaps a load of guilt onto children who feel pressure to excel at everything to try to compensate for the career their mother gave up to be at home with them.

GrahamB says:

09:09pm | 09/04/11

matt says:
In 1955 kids knew their boundaries,and taught respect,if not at home the schools sure did.

matt says:

09:18am | 10/04/11

grahamB has allowed himself to be brainwashed that all of a sudden kids are disrespectful. kids are the same today as they were 50, 100, 200 years ago. loom at juvenile crime statistics. they are steadily decreasing since records began. todays parents and grandparents were as mischievous as any other generation they just look back with rose coloured glasses. the point is we need to be progressive thinking, cos setting boundaries and expectations in a calm confident manner is all kids need, and they will turn out calmer and more confident themselves. adults need to read books and be open minded.

Proudly Nullagravida says:

07:55pm | 11/04/11

Plus the extra few bucks for the frozen peas.