Let them eat dirt!

vox says:

11:28am | 08/02/13

Common sense? Just on the candles example, which in my view is a very valid and sensible example of what we should not let our children do, are you suggesting that if the waiter brought you a hot meal and then stood there blowing on it for you that you would eat it? Not send it back? Not reprimand or report the waiter?
Now, do you still think it okay for a child, who may have any mouth disease, any virus, or any other problem which that waiter might have, to blow their possibly fetid breath all over food that my child is then given to eat.
Perhaps you are to be given more consideration than you are prepared to give to your, or someone else’s child. Or perhaps your knee just jerks in rhythm with your brain.

Meph says:

11:56am | 08/02/13

@vox

Did you even read the article before commenting?

Bob says:

12:08pm | 08/02/13

Vox: That would be more consistent, the refusal to eat it would be more cultural (and concerning in a restaurant). I’m assuming you’ve had birthday cake more than a few times in your life. Have you ever refused it because the disgusting birthday boy/girl blew on it? Also keep in mind that childhood is the best time for them to get in contact with these diseases. So many diseases that are minor for children as crippling for adults.

We have immune systems for a reason and sooner or later they will be in a world where they’ll need it (I’m writing this from Northern China. The restaurant I went to last night had rather more mold covering the walls than I’m really comfortable with in a restaurant. In addition to the myriad other extremely dodgy hygiene practices here) let it grow strong while they’re kids and they can use it while adults.

I also emigrated to the UK in 2011 and spent the first half of 2012 catching every bug going. Things would have been much worse for me if I had an immune system that had never been allowed to develop while I was a child.

Ando says:

12:10pm | 08/02/13

Vox,

At birthday parties as an adult do you refuse to eat any cake on which the candles have been blown out.

Jeremy says:

12:31pm | 08/02/13

@Vox - the immune systems developmental needs of young children and adults are completely different, as are the types of germs and bacteria you are most likely to encounter from each.
Humans are born with a remarkably adaptive immune response, but it requires programming to work. Over sterilizing a childs environment not only diminishes the chances of the immune system programming properly, it also encourages the evolution of stronger, cleaner-resistant forms of whatever pathogens are present in each locality.

Tell It Like It Is says:

01:34pm | 08/02/13

Could not agree more @Jeremy. And to which   “mouth disease” are you referring @Vox? 

All little people are really very dirty people. All very well to insist they wash their hands - as they most certainly should! - after going to the toilet. But littlies are constantly touching things/ EVERYTHING and then their hands end up in their mouths or they touch a toy which ends up in their mouth, or shove something into their - yes dirty as all of ours are, essentially - mouths. I still struggle with the hygiene level of my 12 year old grandson but he’s survived quite well/fantastically in fact, despite my worries.

James of Hong Kong says:

01:47pm | 08/02/13

@Vox: Quick, everyone run, another helicopter hovering menacingly. Quick everyone to your electric wheelchairs, research has just found walking on legs is dangerous, in fact science and the minority have advised it is best to just stay at home, don’t move and sit there motionless until you simply wither away and die, unnoticed and unhappy. The helicopters will be full of fuel though and happily hovering overhead noddinh heads together in agreement with that outcome.

I think I just spied some candles, a birhtday cake and a birthday party at McDonalds, my God am I gonna give Ronald a serve and let fly on the manager. No candles for YOU!!!.

Geez, the work of keeping an eye on everyone is never finished. Sorry all, am off I see someone who needs a finger wagged at. Time to put my best disapproving pursed lips on display

glenm says:

01:55pm | 08/02/13

Well put James, if its is to be regulated in childcare centres then the next step is to ensure that any Birthday cake eaten in public and shared by a group of unrelated persons must be done so using the cupcake method. I imaging kate ellis will be out on the weekend policing local parks and Mc Donalds play rooms.

Richard says:

05:13pm | 08/02/13

Vox Common sense in that the children are not wrapped in cotton wool. As a dad with 2 kids I am not a “Free range” or “Helicopter parent” I an a dad. Vox where do you stand on vaccination of children.

Pattem says:

12:35pm | 08/02/13

@Tarzmahal, you stated: “I think sometimes we forget that children are individuals with rights that should be encouraged to make decisions about their lives.”

Really?  As an ‘almost’ middle-aged man, I once had a six year girl come up to me and say “I want to marry you.”

So what, I should encourage her to stand by that decision?

L. says:

01:14pm | 08/02/13

“So what, I should encourage her to stand by that decision?”

Only if you want the conducted in Saudi Arabia.

Tarzmahal says:

02:37pm | 08/02/13

The participation rights of children can not be dismissed on the basis of an argument that they may make bad decisions. If that were so, many adults could also not be trusted to make decisions about their lives. A child’s ability to make decisions about their life needs to be scaffolded from a young age. I am not saying that they should be thrown in the deep en to make decisions such as the one you suggested.

You seem to have conveniently neglected to address the section of my comment that acknowledges that children require structure and routine.

As a teacher I am aware that children often need guidance, that does not mean that all decisions that impact their lies should be made on their behalf without their consultation. I am well aware that children (and adults) often make bad choices. But it is from making those choices (under the supervision of an adult) that they learn and grow.

Nick says:

04:13pm | 08/02/13

I gagged at the “free-range” tag too.  Why can’t I just be a dad without some kind of noxious label being applied to me.

Sync says:

11:34am | 08/02/13

Because it’s polite. If you can’t understand that, then the next time I have a cold I’ll find you and sneeze all over you, and you can later tell me whether it was a good idea.

Bob says:

12:10pm | 08/02/13

Because they grow up. Kids who grow up without being taught that have a habit of turning into adults (when it’s far more serious) who don’t do that.

I hate pies says:

12:14pm | 08/02/13

I haven’t washed in months

St. Michael says:

01:11pm | 08/02/13

“PS havnt washed my coffee cup in months”

Finally something you and I agree on.  I’m waiting to see if the e.coli in there develop into an enlightened civilisation first, then I’ll wash it.

Al says:

11:30am | 08/02/13

Matt - nah, too easy too shot them down as : ““Immunologist professor Mark Davis found that the body’s immune system benefits so much from being exposed to bacteria and infection that it creates “memory cells” not only to fight that germ when it encounters it again, but even for infections or viruses the body hasn’t even had.”
Is basicly a natural form of immunisation. And to do so without the danger of getting a full blown infection is simply a reasonable action when it comes to the more dangerous ones.
It is not advocating going out and exposing kids to highly dangerous and potentialy lethal infections, just that over clean lifestyles reduce the bodies immunity to those things.

glenm says:

01:50pm | 08/02/13

It is crystal clear that the policy release by the federal government is yet another poorly thought out top down response to minority interest groups. If our government had any spine the report/policy would have made it mandatory for all those in childcare to be immunised prior to recieving any government funding. Instead we are talking about germs spread by door handles and birthday cake.

Kung_Fu Kimba says:

02:13pm | 08/02/13

Were you aware of any extenuating circumstances that may have been the reason for her mother accompanying her - like a medical condition or something? Do you know it was her mother, or is that just an assumption?

There are plenty of people who require the care of others to go about their daily lives…I just want to make sure that you aren’t making an assumption about who was accompanying her and why they were doing so.

Rose says:

01:39pm | 08/02/13

And, in the event that such a child is at kindy or school then the staff would know about it, have a health care plan in place and can adapt practices to suit. There’s still no reason to alter practices for the rest of the time to a state of overly hygienic paranoia.
Let kids be kids, as long as you have a washing machine/trough and a bathtub/shower to clean up the kids at the end of the day, let them get as dirty as they please

Pattem says:

02:16pm | 08/02/13

@Rose, you stated: “Let kids be kids, as long as you have a washing machine/trough…”

What, you want to throw the kids in a washing machine?  They might end up clean, and if not drowned, then at least battered and bruised from the spin cycle.

1

spitswapper says:

01:03pm | 08/02/13

Don’t kiss your partner then.

St. Michael says:

01:14pm | 08/02/13

Guess you won’t be giving anyone the tongue kiss in the near future, then?

Tarzmahal says:

12:25pm | 08/02/13

I definitely agree with this. This compulsion to sterilise children and their enviornments seems to directly correlate with the increasing incidence of childhood allergies. How are children supposed to develop an immunity to something if they’re never exposed to it?

philip says:

11:58am | 08/02/13

big difference is gastro could come from anything even from foods and fluids within your own house so I wouldnt exactly be blaming the children jeff.

Paul says:

12:06pm | 08/02/13

@ Jeff: I’m wondering how many child care centres would allow a kid with gastro to stay in care, let alone celebrate their birthday blowing out candles and allowing all the other kids to eat the cake?

NSS says:

12:19pm | 08/02/13

Infection control is important, granted, but that’s why immunisation against the diseases which are apt to cause the most damage is vital. The occasional bout of gastro or cough, though unpleasant and uncomfortable for the child, and inconvenient or upsetting for the parents is not going to kill or do lasting damage a healthy child, rather the opposite, as the studies have proven.

NSS says:

12:24pm | 08/02/13

I would add, as long as the gastro is treated correctlyor the cough correctly diagnosed, all should be well, which takes some responsibility on the parents’ part.

NSS says:

02:27pm | 08/02/13

@ Jeff. “Allowing” a child with gastro into a centre is not recommended, no. I know a couple of child-care workers and they frequently complain that parents know their child is ill, yet send them to daycare anyway because of work commitments (or not wanting to care for them). Blame employers and irresponsible parents for their attitudes, not the child-care centre.

Jeff says:

03:23pm | 08/02/13

You assume the obvious presentation of the gastro before the birthday party.  Of course any reputable centre will separate obviously sick kids.  An outbreak of a viral disease is easily traced, and in small children and the elderly not something to take lightly.

NSS says:

05:14pm | 08/02/13

@ Jeff. No, it’s not some thing to take lightly at all, but neither is it a reason to panic about a few birthday cakes.

Responsible parents keep their sick kids at home, isolated from other family members and the rest of the community, once the disease presents.  Childcare workers/teachers call parents to take their kids home, isolating them in the meantime. However, since most viral illnesses are transmissable before florid symptoms are seen, (on this we agree) unless your kids are going to live in a hermetically sealed bubble you take the risk. They could catch anything walking down the street, or touching a table.  It’s called belonging to a community.

Chucky says:

12:22pm | 08/02/13

Of course infant mortality ran around 20% during much of that time.

Probably a coincidence though.

Spell checks on the Post says:

03:06pm | 08/02/13

Classic! The marketing gurus do try and make us buy everything when we start out with the first child.

My little bloke puts so much stuff in his mouth from the floor that I am thinking of using him as the vacuum and save on my power bills.

Justme says:

03:54pm | 08/02/13

I know! We are told to sterilize everything. Then you whack ‘em on the floor so they can practice “tummy time”.  Ah there’s nothing like a bit of carpet or cat fur or dead fly to make you realize the futility of Milton’s solution.

St. Michael says:

04:58pm | 08/02/13

Ah, but chocolate is worth a death by flesh-eating bacteria.