Yet another study has found evidence linking conservative thinking to fear, and small ‘l’ liberalism to openness.

He's carrying a gun, which means he'll taste of amygdala… mmmm

University College London researchers considered previous research that found “conservatives are more sensitive to threat or anxiety in the face of uncertainty, while liberals tend to be more open to new experiences”.

They decided to look at the brain’s structure to see whether this was reflected physically, and found it was - people who identify as liberal have larger anterior cingulate cortexes while conservatives have larger amygdalas, which is exactly what I always say.

In fact I’ve been known to shout “Show us your oversized amygdala!” at passing Tea Party members.

Author Ryota Kanai said they don’t know which came first, the thinking or the brain differences, and emphasised that the exact relationship between the brain and political orientation needed more work.

The findings – published in the latest Current Biology journal - will come as no surprise to people who read letters to the editor or comments on opinion websites like The Punch.

For example – last week I wrote a piece on Islam and beheading, arguing that a Victorian MP was wrong to say Islam sanctioned beheading when the vast majority of Muslims were against it.

The reactions were, on one side, fear of Islam, with people arguing that it is a ‘death cult’, a religion of violence, terror, extremism. Even those who conceded that most Muslims are not in favour of decapitation as a punishment saw Islam as a great threat.

On the other side were those who were open to Islam, believing most Muslims are good and only a minority were in favour of extreme measures such as beheading.

Euthanasia is another hot button topic that splits people between fear and openness.

On the one hand people see any form of voluntary euthanasia legislation as the first step on a slippery slope to murder and a loss of the value of human life.

On the other hand, as Advertiser reader J.S. Butler of Dulwich pointed out, those in favour believe humanity is “fundamentally decent”.

You can see the same pattern reflected in almost every controversial issue. The conservatives look at the worst-case scenario, while the liberal side is more optimistic.

And then there’s climate change, where it’s the exact reverse. And then there are all those people who are conservative on one issue and liberal on the other. Or change their affiliations in the course of life. Or see the shades of grey in each argument.

And then there’s the very important point to make – which is that while people see fear as a negative emotion, it’s actually a very useful emotion. Fear helps us survive, so maybe the conservatives are right and we should all be very pessimistic about human nature.

Or maybe the issue here is that fear is our greatest motivator, which is why all those with vested interests use it with such devastating effectiveness.

So politicians, lobbyists, and even academics and columnists and advocacy groups know that if they want to shift an argument, they just have to press all the right amygdalic buttons.

Maybe what we really need is to work out the exact level of fear necessary to make the best decisions.

Right, that’s me out. My greater anterior cingulate cortex is aching with all this effort. What do you think?

Previous studies on the politics of brains:

In October 2010, University of California researchers said they had identified a “liberal gene”, which, when combined with an active social life, led people to be more empathetic and interested in others’ points of view.

They would therefore be exposed to more diversity and thus be more liberal, they hypothesized.

Another study earlier this year by the University of Nebraska looked at “gaze cues” and found the liberal gaze is more likely to follow another’s on a computer screen, showing they were more responsive to others, while conservatives were more autonomous.

Another UK experiment late last year - although a lightweight one prompted by Colin Firth - came to similar conclusions as the most recent one, linking conservatism to fear and anxiety.

200 comments

Show oldest | newest first

    • Erick says:

      06:03am | 12/04/11

      I call bullshit. It’s just more advocacy research, designed to produce politically desirable results. The amygdala deals with more than just fear.
      “[The] Amygdala is seen to be linked to the orbital frontal cortex, the striatum and thalamus, which are all structures involved in emotional processing. In humans and animals, this amygdala is linked to both fear and pleasure responses. The main function of amygdala is emotional and social processing. It processes and stores memories of emotional events and is also involved in current emotional responses. Researchers also find that the amygdala in men and women respond differently to emotional situations.”

      It’s also involved in forming memories. So it would be just as accurate to accuse “liberals” of having poor social skills, being less able to experience pleasure and human bonding, and lacking in memory. But that wouldn’t make good headlines for bashing conservatives, would it?

    • LeftRightOut says:

      06:56am | 12/04/11

      I think you’ve been “pwned” by Erick, Tory.
      Good job too, he’s right about liberals, no social skills, and about as bright as a goldfish grin

    • JimW says:

      07:33am | 12/04/11

      If you read the piece again without the victim glasses on, Tory’s trying not to take sides - unfortunately a very liberal trait that’s bound to get the conservatives off side right from the start.
      “Fear helps us survive, so maybe the conservatives are right and we should all be very pessimistic about human nature,” she says. Not exactly the strongest attack on conservatives ever written, and Tory herself says the research isn’t black and white with: “And then there’s climate change, where it’s the exact reverse. And then there are all those people who are conservative on one issue and liberal on the other. Or change their affiliations in the course of life. Or see the shades of grey in each argument.”
      I think the ideal political outlook - in terms of what would be best for the country and the majority of people - would probably be a mixture of both liberal and conservative views. The more emotional conservative response can hold on to the most worthy “good old-fashioned values” and prevent the over appeasement of extreme liberalism while the liberal element can ensure logic is still a guiding principle and avoid the more extreme levels of idiocy that conservatives can sometimes advocate, such as the recent banning of the veil in France.
      Democracies tend to have left and right parties and on paper one could make the assumption that thereby this balance is achieved - and perhaps it is, or at least the ultra-extremes of both sides are generally kept in tow. Unfortunately, I think many adopt the football-fan approach to politics and feel they have to back their team no matter what.
      Hopefully this research will make some people think a bit more about why they believe what they believe.

    • DJ says:

      07:44am | 12/04/11

      I reckon you must have a BIG one Erick

    • mid says:

      08:27am | 12/04/11

      There, there, Erick, there’s nothing to fear, it will be ok grin

    • RobJ says:

      08:32am | 12/04/11

      “I call bullshit.”

      Woooosh, straight on the defensive. LOL

    • iansand says:

      08:35am | 12/04/11

      Erick - Are you saying that you get pleasure from demonising women and Muslims?  You are weirder than I first thought.

    • John says:

      08:36am | 12/04/11

      It’s so true! Erick! Liberals are basically an evolved version of Marxism. Marxists are idealists, then realists, they are sadists(no human bonding) this is why they savagely butchered Russians and the Polish in WII in most cold calculated savage way. Liberals are also god less. They also lack logic, explains why they support ideals then reality. The Far-left took over Britain in 1960’s, opened the doors International Communism(International Multiculturalism). This lead millions of the third world flood Britain. In order to destroy what communists despise, The White christian european culture and its people.

    • Carter says:

      08:40am | 12/04/11

      @Erick, I call your response a conservative running scared from an aticle designed to promote debate and thought ful discussion…

      Just as the amygdala regulates more than fear, so the Anterior Cingulate Cortex does more than promote openess. It also promotes “functions such as error detection, anticipation of tasks, motivation, and modulation of emotional responses to the ACC”. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anterior_cingulate_cortex)

      So, using your biased argument, you could suggest that small ‘l’ liberals have more highly evolved abilities to detect errors. Like a $6b “budget black hole”, or double counting $700m in savings over a Flood tax…

      But thanks for playing.

    • Erick says:

      08:50am | 12/04/11

      I did in fact read the article, JimW, and noticed that Tory put up counterexamples.

      That’s why I criticised the research and the way it was presented, not Tory.

      However, as far as your main point goes, I agree. Human society needs a mixture of qualities, both political and personal. That’s why evolution has provided us with all these different kinds of people.

    • Tory Shepherd

      Tory Shepherd says:

      08:52am | 12/04/11

      ‘pwned’ indeed, if an anonymous online poster trumps the authors of peer-reviewed, published research.

    • Erick says:

      09:09am | 12/04/11

      Tory, logic trumps faulty reasoning every time. Anonymity is irrelevant - it’s the content that counts.

      So, explain why the report you quote frames conservatives in terms of “fear” only, when the amygdala has numerous other functions - if it’s not to make conservatives look bad?

    • Erick is on the money says:

      09:54am | 12/04/11

      Yet again, Erick is spot on, and Tory is so far off the mark. Tread carefully those who would attempt biased, unsubstantiated reporting, for Erick will sniff out your baloney a mile away.

    • Phil says:

      10:10am | 12/04/11

      Anonymous, come on Tory Erick is famous.

    • Peter says:

      10:15am | 12/04/11

      He’s not anonymous, he’s Erick smile

    • Super D says:

      10:18am | 12/04/11

      @ Tory - In climate “science” bloggers regularly pwn peer reviewed “science”, it just doesn’t suit the “end of the world is nigh” narrative so goes unreported.

    • Chalk and cheese says:

      11:33am | 12/04/11

      @John: liberals = Marxists? I think you’ve just confirmed the researcher’s suggestion that conservatives cannot deal with complexity very well (http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5iISI7ifh-AjUE3ejyC1wQmwFrMFw?docId=CNG.61c886c438708471a9f4ea23070fa70c.3a1).

      Liberal philosophy is based on hundreds of years of political thought from the likes of Adam Smith, John Stuart Mill, Jeremy Bentham, and John Locke. Marxism, with its preference of equality over freedom, actually constitutes a rejection of liberalism’s emphasis on personal freedom for a more radical political philosophy. Whatever you might choose to define Marxism as, you certainly cannot define it within the tenets of Liberalism. To an extent, the same is true of Social Democracy (the broad philosophy of the ALP).

      The research at the heart of this article may not be as relevant to Australians as it might be to Americans. The reason for this is that the political battlelines in the two countries are drawn in different places. Why should we talk about conservative-liberal in Australia? The simplistic viewpoint that tries to define the conservative-liberal gap by the moribund labels of “left” and “right” is an American invention, relevant only to the American political experience. In the United States, those two factions are the only ones that really hold any sway in political circles. Lacking a history of strong labour movements and union thuggery, Social Democracy does not exist as a relevant political faction in America as we perceive it to in Australia.

      So you argued that Marxism is an evolution of liberalism. Respectfully, I would disagree. Marxism is a distinct political philosophy in its own right - but it might be more than somewhat correct to say that social democracy is an evolution of Marxism.

      So in applying it to a contemporary Australian context, I think you would find that broadly speaking, both the ALP right and the moderate Liberals could identify themselves as “Liberal”. The evangelical members of the coalition might describe themselves as conservative, but there is just no way that the Greens or Labor Left could be described as liberal. They have a totally different brand of political philosophy that is irreconcilable with liberal values.

    • JAL says:

      12:27pm | 12/04/11

      “Liberals” can also be accused of fear. Fear of being seeing to make a stand or find fault in anything. The stereotypical “‘yes’ man”. It is easier to agree with everybody, and offer accommodation and “understanding” than it is to recognize a negative influence and define it as such even when the critic knows he is talking against a highly popular new “fad” in thinking. 

      We should learn through history and experience that conservativeness is not entirely invalid in the modern age. Were “liberals” in Hitler’s Germany truly being “open-minded” in accepting his leadership and in their tolerance towards the concept of rounding up the Jews, or were they just too scared to voice their conservative objections?

      Perhaps the stereotypical Lemmings have larger anterior cingulate cortexes, which allow them to be so accepting of new ideas to the point where they can happily cruise with the masses over the precipice without questioning where they are going. Are they truly being “open-minded” or are they simply too scared of being rejected by the other lemmings if they don’t blindly follow this radical new journey?

      Studies like this are too often subjectively represented by those who have no scientific understanding. The results are misinterpreted by the tabloid media as some kind of new breakthrough to legitimize some new fad. We have all seen it before. We all know its (lack of) value as a single isolated study when it comes to making sweeping judgements. There will be several equally scientifically-legitimate tests which said media could equally misrepresent to say the opposite.

      Lets think at least a little conservatively, and not assume that Tory’s lack of inspiration in finding something really worthwhile to write about this week is indicative of some new breakthrough in pigeon-holing and ostracising those who don’t agree with you…now that wouldn’t be very liberal at all, would it.

    • Chase Stevens says:

      12:41pm | 12/04/11

      Come on, it’s not hard to see Conservatism is motivated by fear. Conservatives are against anything ever-so-slightly different from their comfortable status quo, and the reason for that is fear of the other. Hell they use fear of the other to motivate their voting base!

    • Paul Mantra says:

      01:53pm | 12/04/11

      Leading Psychiatrist Says Liberalism is a Psychological Disorder
      http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=56494

      “The roots of liberalism – and its associated madness – can be clearly identified by understanding how children develop from infancy to adulthood and how distorted development produces the irrational beliefs of the liberal mind,” he says. “When the modern liberal mind whines about imaginary victims, rages against imaginary villains and seeks above all else to run the lives of persons competent to run their own lives, the neurosis of the liberal mind becomes painfully obvious.”

    • JimW says:

      03:41pm | 12/04/11

      @ Paul Mantra - Dr Rossiter’s book was seen by most in the psych community as a conservative response to the report “Political Conservatism as Motivated Social Cognition”, produced by four distinguished scholars funded by the US Government and supervised by the National Institute of Health, which concluded that political conservatism was a kind of neurosis rooted in “fear and aggression, dogmatism and the intolerance of ambiguity”. At the time, conservatives slammed the government report as nothing but the opinions of the liberal-leaning authors. However those same conservatives were much more accepting of Dr Rossiter’s work, which isn’t based on any studies or documentation and pretty much just takes the opposite line to the government report on most points.

    • papachango says:

      05:47pm | 12/04/11

      @JimW - so the left have their set of studies saying the right are nutters, and the right have their studies (there are actually more than one) showing the left are nutters.

      My point, made below, is that they’re all bollocks, and more insidiously it’s an attempt by one side to censor or discredit a philosophy that it doesn’t agree with.

      It’s bad enough some on the left are trying to shut down debate with legal action (see the Bolt case), but to attempt to commit their ideological opponents to the nuthouse as well is even more wrong..

    • Ryan says:

      05:53pm | 12/04/11

      @Erick: and smaller, underdeveloped or damaged amygdala has been shown in studies to be associated to mass murder and serial killing.
      So lefties are clearly more prone to mass murder and serial killing, I guess this shows clearly with the likes of lefties such as Pol Pot, Stalin and Hitler.

    • Chris L says:

      07:05pm | 12/04/11

      If Tory is trolling she’s been incredibly successful, but I guess emotional thinkers can be counted on to take the bait grin

    • acotrel says:

      08:08pm | 12/04/11

      Why are people living in modern Australia beset with phobias?  There is absolutely nothing in our society to be afraid of, and nothing whch cannot be handled under law.  We have certain irresponsible politicians who peddle fear, but you’d have to be delusional t orespond to it!  I was recently at a party, and an idiot said that Australia would become Islamic.  I told him he was talking out of his backside, and that I didn’t want to hear his bullshit. You don’t have to be Einstein to work out where his ideas come from!

    • acotrel says:

      08:42pm | 12/04/11

      @Chalk & cheese
      ‘Liberal philosophy is based on hundreds of years of political thought from the likes of Adam Smith, John Stuart Mill, Jeremy Bentham, and John Locke. Marxism, with its preference of equality over freedom, actually constitutes a rejection of liberalism’s emphasis on personal freedom for a more radical political philosophy.’

      You forgot to mention Maggie Thatcher, Ronnie Reagan, Von Hayek and the Liberal Party’s bible ‘The Constitution of Liberty’.  It’s sort of like Mein Kampf and Das Capital were to other extremists!

    • Ryan says:

      10:50am | 13/04/11

      @acotrel: excepting that Hitler was a leftie socialist, I believe his party was the “National Socialist German Workers’ Party”.

    • Chris L says:

      06:13pm | 13/04/11

      @Ryan - unless you take into account that he fiercely hated communism, isn’t that the preferred accusation for lefties?

    • Ryan says:

      08:38pm | 13/04/11

      @Chris L: depends, you get crazy lefties (Commies) then you get complete nutter crazies that perform mass murder (socialists). Which is why we have just a little concern about Gillards head role in the socialist alliance. I wonder if she has a small or damaged amygdala, would hate for her to be predisposed.

    • ZSRenn says:

      07:02am | 12/04/11

      Why has England got this new business of sham studies all to itself? Every report of this nature seems to be coming from London at the moment.

      Why are we as Australians not spending billions to get a foothold in this industry of research into bogus scientific knowledge?

      The government can find any other way possible to waste our tax payer dollars or in fact be able to introduce new taxes so why not this one. Again we are falling behind in science when we used to be leaders in the field.

      Just another example of this failed labor government causing us to fall into back water status in the world standings.

    • TimB says:

      08:31am | 12/04/11

      I dunno, have you seen how much the Government are paying Tim Flannery?

      Not exactly the same as what you described but it’s a good start.

    • Dave-o says:

      09:05am | 12/04/11

      Haven’t you seen all those pretty Monash reports proclaiming the effectiveness of speed camera’s, promoted by Harold Scabby.

    • Reggie says:

      09:09am | 12/04/11

      It’s because our conservative influences make us followers ZSRenn. Or are you being sarcastic? If you are then we have here a clear indication of the negativity of conservatives, a reluctance to face the difficulty square-on.

      Besides, why do the research all over again if it’s already been done? Now perhaps you can tell us who it was that curtailed the activities of the CSIRO and about the repeated failure of Australian business to pick up on the organisation’s output.

    • Mahhrat says:

      09:34am | 12/04/11

      Because only the British have people named Magicthise and Vroomfondel, mate.

    • acotrel says:

      07:17am | 12/04/11

      Erick, I thought you might appreciate the gender differences in thinking, and I believe I’ve found one.  I was teaching labour management at a uni in NE Vic.  I set an assignment which consisted of the kids taking two key words from a list of twenty, and plugging them into a search engine.  Finding a few responses and writing a short essay on any area related to the course subject.  The next step was to make a short presentation to the class about the essay.  I found that out of fourteen students the four girls did the task perfectly, yet the boys stumbled.  It’s the same process middle managers do every day in business, yet the basic skills to do it were lacking in a large proportion of the kids - mainly the boys.  All the kids were in their early twenties.

    • AnthonyG says:

      08:57am | 12/04/11

      So Acotrel is a teacher. That explains everything.

    • Erick says:

      09:14am | 12/04/11

      Acotrel, humans have always known that men and women have different traits and capabilities. It’s only during the last century or so that the adherents of some political philosophies have attempted to deny this fact.

    • Matt says:

      10:01am | 12/04/11

      Middle managers punch random words into Google and write short essays about the output everyday? Wow.

    • Arvanitis says:

      10:04am | 12/04/11

      I think you’ve been “pwned” by Erick, acotrel.

    • acotrel says:

      10:14am | 12/04/11

      Anthony, I worked for 40 years as an industrial chemist in engineering and scientific environments.  I’ve been an occupational hygienist, and a quality manager in my years away from 9 to 5 ers.  I lecture from time to time, my qualifications and experience are accepted by some institutions as a substitute for formal teacher training

    • Tom says:

      10:18am | 12/04/11

      @acetrol “list of twenty”. Was the list gender neutral?

      “It’s the same process middle managers do every day in business.”? That might be your assertion, acetrol. I ain’t buying it.

    • Erick says:

      03:47pm | 12/04/11

      I guess at this point I shouldn’t mention the fact that men’s brains are, on average, ten to fifteen per cent larger than women’s brains.

      Ooops!

    • sproket says:

      07:41am | 12/04/11

      You are disingenuous to equate the muslim death-cult issue with conservatism, from what I can see a lot of reasoned evidence was presented in that thread to debunk you proposition that there was nothing inherently bloodthirsty about that particular flavour of Abrahamic lunacy. You appear to be smarting still from that experience, if that was so I wouldnt blame you, it was speccy.

      i would suggest you read and youtube some Sam Harris and Christopher Hitchens, free thinkers not bound by your political categories, but who are in many ways the epitomy of the “small l liberal” you deify. yet both of them ascribe to the “death cult” view of Islam, that Islam is the worst of a bad bunch.

      p.s. I would probably be classed as a small l liberal, and have sufficient top-5 University (Masters level) training in Islamic Law that (but for my lack of faith) I am officially quailfied to issue fatwas,  so dont try to poass me of as some conservative nutjob, thanks

    • Gamer says:

      08:59am | 12/04/11

      Wow
      What sort of belt to you get for masters level?
      Do you have a black belt in Islamic law?
      Do you issue your fatwas over the internet through an Xbox
      If you issue a fatwa, does it matter how that person dies?

    • sproket says:

      10:02am | 12/04/11

      You need to look up the definition of a fatwa.

      p.s. watch your back for hajji ninjas

    • Gamer says:

      12:19pm | 12/04/11

      I guess you missed this call fatwas calling for the death of someone then. Maybe a different branch of Islam to yours?

      “fatwas have also been used to communicate radical anti-Western messages. In 1989, former Iranian spiritual leader Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini famously called for author Salman Rushdie’s death for his publication of his novel”

      Perhaps you would like to study a bit more on fatwas?

    • James1 says:

      12:30pm | 12/04/11

      Gamer,

      A fatwa is a religious ruling. Sometimes they call for people to be killed.  That does not mean they always do.  It seems that you are the one who needs to educate yourself on fatwas, as you have zeroed in on one narrow use of the fatwa, to the exclusion of all others.

    • Gamer says:

      12:56pm | 12/04/11

      James1
      Let me make it a bit easier for your to understand my comment James

      The Sproket was talking about Muslim death cult issues, so the fatwa reference was obvious to most. It was about fatwa’s that call for someone’s death. You with me so far?
      Sproket in spite of his black belt in Islamic law seemed to be saying (You need to look up the definition of a fatwa) that a fatwa has nothing to do with calling for the killing of someone.
      Still with me?
      I responded by showing him how a fatwa was issued doing just that - calling for death of Salman Rushdie.
      You still with me?

      You must have missed The Punch the other day when everyone was all excited about islamic beheadings.
      Hence my comment “If you issue a death fatwa, does it matter how that person dies?”

      Can you now understand why my comment focusing on a death fatwa was relevant?

      Apology accepted.

    • sproket says:

      01:26pm | 12/04/11

      Gamer Gamer Gamer

      One day you shall contribute something to a discussion. Clearly today is that day.

    • James1 says:

      01:40pm | 12/04/11

      ‘Hence my comment “If you issue a death fatwa, does it matter how that person dies?”’

      That was not your comment, though.  Your comment was: “If you issue a fatwa, does it matter how that person dies?”

      So what you are doing there is trying to mislead people in order to win an argument.  Let me explain.  Your original post was framed in terms of fatwas, not death fatwas.  Someone draws your attention to the fact that fatwas are not always about killing people, and are simply religious rulings.  When this is pointed out, you try and insert an extra word into your original comment, which changes the meaning of said comment, perhaps hoping I wouldn’t notice.

      Who is apologising?

    • Gamer says:

      05:28pm | 12/04/11

      Thanks sproket for acknowledging the contribution
      James1 I Apologise or I will issue a fatwa on you.

    • Peter says:

      07:47am | 12/04/11

      Clearly Tory had no good ideas and instead of saying nothing, which might have been the wiser policy, decided to engage in a little stirring. Unfortunately, writing slick, clever, tongue-in-cheek pieces is clearly not one of her stronger suits.
      Based on Tory argument, all who fear the planet will be irreparably harmed by anthropomorphic climate change are conservatives, as are those who bear a deep and abiding anxiety about energy produced through nuclear fission.
      I’m not sure how much research Tory did for the piece. Maybe she read the first paragraph of the press release? Clearly she overlooked all the extensive research linking homosexuality - almost a prerequisite for small L liberalism these days - with enlarged amygdala.
      This topic should have been handled by a writer with the wit to make the most of it. (C -)

    • Tony of Poorakistan says:

      10:21am | 12/04/11

      Perhaps an indepth look at the size of the amygdala in kinksters wink

    • Reggie says:

      07:50am | 12/04/11

      “Show us your oversized amygdala!” at passing Tea Party members.

      I bet that made them reach for their guns.

      This is by no means a new observation. I’ve seen it in some of my work associates for decades, along with that ever present simpering and whining, they cannot think laterally and all hurdles are insurmountable.  That has GOT to be a clear indication of conservatism and narrow thinking.

      Now look up there at Erick, he is immediately on the defensive regarding these observation as an attack on his principles. If that man was ever an organiser then I’ll eat my hat. He couldn’t organise a screw in a Cairo brothel in the Saturday night rush.  wink

    • mid says:

      07:59am | 12/04/11

      Hmmm, conservatives have a more emotional response? So instead of arguing with a conservative, I should just give them a hug, pat them on the back and tell them it will be alright wink

    • TChong says:

      09:07am | 12/04/11

      But mid - you might catch something unpleasant like gunophillia.
      No just kidding .
      The tin foil hat wearing, rednecked, hill billy , flat earthers, climate deniers, god bothering , xenophobes ( 2 z ‘s in xenophobe, isnt there, Rosie ?) would - be Tea Partiers, are all cool.
      And know how to laugh at themselves ,  as well they might.
      For very good reasons.
      ( a pertinant fact , seemingly overlooked, specially with some of the laughable conservative logic, posted here)
      My favrit winking emotcon seems to be overworked today, so a big
                            smile  to all Coservatives.

    • Barry says:

      09:52am | 12/04/11

      Liberals are much more likely to wear tin foil hats!  You may be right about conservatives and all the other stereotypes, but it’s always the liberal people I meet who are dumb enough to buy into 9/11 and other such idiotic conspiracy theories.

    • Chris L says:

      06:59pm | 12/04/11

      @Barry as opposed to a global conspiracy of scientists trying to trick us into thinking that pollution is a bad thing.

      Or how about that conspiracy of the Australian media to remove the Howard government “because it felt like a change” despite the wishes of the “silent (read: non-existant) majority.

      BTW, when was the last time anyone talked about a 911 conspiracy here?

    • MarK says:

      08:09am | 12/04/11

      I prefer my comedy with some laughs.

      Just saying.

    • Reggie says:

      09:33am | 12/04/11

      Yes we’ve noticed.

    • Fog Badger says:

      08:16am | 12/04/11

      Or, those with conservative brains have the ability to learn from experiences, good or bad, and over-ride the liberal brain as necessary to secure survival.

    • Simon says:

      10:22am | 12/04/11

      Read “those with conservative brains have the inability to embrace new ideas, experience new things, and use logic rather than emotion to think outside their own sphere, assess risk and make decisions”?

      Something tells me it’s not as simple as that… At least, I hope it’s not, for the sake of poor Conservatives!

    • TChong says:

      10:58am | 12/04/11

      Yes Simon , quite agree.
      I hope there is more to a Conservative than whats in the article, but
      Tory does make a very good case,.
      It does explain why so many do like to live in the past, a past when the world maps had lots of faded red / pink countries on the classroom wall.
      Its better to look upon them not with contempt for their deliberate, self indulgant philistinism ,specially in anything “Social” or “Arty”, ( all them left wing academics ! ) but more with pity, at their quaintness for believing what they do.
      The question is ‘cant they help it’ ?
      Can they change, for the better?
      Lets hope.!

    • Paul Horn says:

      12:58pm | 12/04/11

      So tell me Chongy what do I believe in as a died in the wool conservative right wing extremist? So you reckon your feminazi marxist communist utopia is infinitely preferable to little pink bits on the map?

      Just tell me what has your crowd ever contributed? Spiralling welfare, increased drug addiction, family breakdown on a major scale, enforced gender hostility etc etc etc. All amounting to a sick and perverted social philosophy that should have been stamped on the head with extreme prejudice at the beginning of the 60’s.

    • Reggie says:

      01:12pm | 12/04/11

      Fog, you mean like pissing on every post they pass? No thought involved, purely automatic.  Watch TA.

    • Reggie says:

      01:19pm | 12/04/11

      Paul Horn “So tell me Chongy what do I believe in as a died in the wool conservative right wing extremist?”

      Paul they don’t come “dyed in the wool,”  they have no colour, only battleship grey.  See post? Piss on it.

    • James1 says:

      01:29pm | 12/04/11

      The left did give us the living wage, Paul.  Its not all bad.

      Also, this: “All amounting to a sick and perverted social philosophy that should have been stamped on the head with extreme prejudice at the beginning of the 60’s.” does not help your argument.  Indeed, it makes you look like an authoritarian, in the vein of “Think what I tell you or I’ll smash your head.”

      To me, that is the very antithesis of conservativism and liberalism.

    • Paul Horn says:

      01:39pm | 12/04/11

      Reggie is that all ya got?

    • Paul Horn says:

      02:14pm | 12/04/11

      Rubbish James. Your thinking is aberrant! The Left did not give us the living wage. You are sorely misinformed. When has the Left signed your last pay cheque unless of course you work for the Unions!

      The living wage came form entrpreneurs. People that set up a business and made it profitable. That is why the West got ahead and Socialism died in the arse. Without risk takers, inventors and entrepreneurs my friend you and your union cronies would still be running around the veldt with your loin cloths around your ankles howling at the moon. I’ver seen the damage wrought by many a union and the unemployment queues fatten as a result.

      But at least we’d have a smaller carbon footprint.

    • James1 says:

      03:16pm | 12/04/11

      I was talking about the Harvester judgement of 1907, Paul, not who signs the paycheques.  The left played a major role in enshrining the living wage in Australian wage negotiations and practices, helping to force employers to pay Australian workers enough to allow them to live in “reasonable and frugal comfort”, in the words of the presiding judge.

      You may believe my thinking is “aberrant”, but yours is just sloppy, and ahistorical.  I understand that entrepreneurism is essential in a capitalist economy - I don’t know why you feel the need to educate me on this, when you lack a basic understanding of the history of the country you live in.  Might I also point out there were several steps between wearing loin cloths and capitalist production?  It would be hard to argue that feudalism relied on entrepreneurs, for instance.

      BTW, I am not a unionist, nor am I a Labor voter.  I just like accuracy.  As do most conservatives.

    • Geoff Russell says:

      08:36am | 12/04/11

      I remember a primatologist on some doco talking about the difference between bonobos and chimps ... it seems relevant. Apparently when a bonobo sees a strange bonobo they’ve never met before, they are pleased and excited ... “wow someone else to have sex with!”. When a chimp sees another chimp the’ve never met, they bristle with fear and anxiety ... “Who’s on my patch and why!”.  Go for a bush walk on a well trodden track (e.g., waterfall gully) and you can see it in action. As people approach some look away and down with apprehension and others look you in the eye and smile. Chalk and cheese. I think this is a real biological distinction, but I’m not sure that the division of views on various issues as liberal Vs conservative is quite so real. As someone who has changed sides on nuclear energy, the claiming of the anti-nuclear side by left/liberals now seems artificial.

    • Erick says:

      09:44am | 12/04/11

      It’s no coincidence that chimps, and humans (who are more like chimps than bonobos) are widespread in the world, while bonobos are restricted to a tiny patch of forest holding just 20,000 individuals.

    • Tom says:

      11:27am | 12/04/11

      The dodos of Mauritius just loved someone new. They went out to meet the sailors. They welcomed them and expected the best. No fears or xenophobia for the dodos. “It’s all good”, they said, “we have nothing to fear but fear itself”.

    • julesdog says:

      08:41am | 12/04/11

      It’s not fear and openness which splits people’s thinking on euthanasia. It is reasoned thought. Those of us who are intelligent, well read, experienced or even just awake should be able to see both sides of any debate, and be able to extrapolate the conundrums.

      I think and feel “conservatively” about euthanasia because while I recognise it is a matter of privacy and human rights, it can be a vehicle of abuse when it comes to the vulnerable and frail in our community.

      Sometimes on matters so dramatic, we need to hasten slowly.

    • Reggie says:

      09:21am | 12/04/11

      Julesdog “It’s not fear and openness which splits people’s thinking on euthanasia.”
      Two things. It’s religion and the fantastic uncertainty it has generated and it’s a fear of not having night follow day, as they have since the moment we were mature enough to notice. Add to that your fear of abuse and we have three negatives.  Do you have a food taster?  smile

    • HappyCynic says:

      08:45am | 12/04/11

      Anyone who thinks that thought or politics or actions are binary (left vs. right, conservative vs. liberal, right vs. wrong) has the education level of 5 year old and the wits to match their education.

      There are only shades of grey in life.  No black, no white.  Every rule has an exception.

      The thing that separates humans from the computers we create is that we are able to break out of binary thinking.  A computer’s intelligence is limited to 1 and 0 (e.g. yes and no), humans are able to exceed this restriction.

      So why are so many d**kheads on this site, in this country, on this planet emulating machines in their thinking?  And why are they unable to see the flaws in their pathetic and ridiculous rhetoric?

    • Mel says:

      10:02am | 12/04/11

      Good point HappyCynic.  I’ve always found that the least intelligent people are those who identify themselves staunchly with one side of a debate to the exclusion of the other.  The self-identifying liberals and conservatives on this website are a clear piece of evidence that this still holds true.  Funnily enough, there seems to be a large dose a fear involved in people who identify with an extreme in general - a fear or inability to think maybe?  Fear that they may be proven to be less ‘marvellous’ than they’ve told themselves?

    • Shane From Melbourne says:

      10:15am | 12/04/11

      Exterminate the intruder!!! We are the superior beings…...

    • Blind Freddy says:

      11:51am | 12/04/11

      Agree. I am facinated by the way the conservative bloggers on this site are always reducing every issue down to ‘left’ versus ‘right’. I mean is there no issue that they disagree with that is proposed by Tony Abbott. The first reaction of the conservatives on this site is to associate the blogger, with whom they disagree, with a whole set of other beliefs that they may or may not hold- based on the old and outdated cold war notion of left and right.

      How tedious it must be to have to check what Tony thinks from day to day so that they know what to think next . . . especially when it contradicts what he thought the day before.

    • jf says:

      12:36pm | 12/04/11

      Blind Freddy says:11:51am | 12/04/11

      Beautiful use of irony BF. You are a comedic genius. Best post yet.

    • Wickerman says:

      03:35pm | 12/04/11

      HappyCynic you state:
      “There are only shades of grey in life.  No black, no white”

      But this IS a “black & white” statement!  i.e. this not this. Logic & argument fail that I can see. Unintended irony win. By arguing that there is only grey & no black/white you make a black/white statement.

      Also:
      “Every rule has an exception.” - including that one itself? If so the content of this rule is false. If not then it is not a rule….

      Wickerman

    • HappyCynic says:

      04:17pm | 12/04/11

      @Wickerman

      It is the flaw in philosophical skepticism.  If no truth is knowable then this statement also can’t be true or some truth must be knowable but if nothing is true etc.

      Still at least this type of thinking allows me to evaluate my perception of the truth for myself without swallowing other peoples bullsh*t.

      It also happens to be a completely logical position to take in this day and age given how much bullsh*t pollies and interested parties, companies and individuals put out there.

      I guess what I’m saying is - assume nothing is certain except absolute uncertainty, but don’t be absolutely certain of that.

    • Jay Santos says:

      08:46am | 12/04/11

      Those damn crickets are chirping again…

    • CJ Morgan says:

      08:49am | 12/04/11

      I don’t know if the amygdala is responsible or not, but the assertion that conservatives are motivated by fear rings true to me.  Fear of any changes to their tiny lives that might involve less material consumption on their part, that is.

    • Pete says:

      08:50am | 12/04/11

      Erick, they mock you, how far you have fallen in the space of a weekend.  last week an internet idol. This week, virtual chip wrappings. I did want to ask about you reply last week and the photo of you. Are youone of the “faceless” men?
      I do agree with you though, to many on the “other hand” and “and then’s”

    • John says:

      08:52am | 12/04/11

      Erick, thinks like me. I don’t read articles, I read their intention. People don’t seem to be conscious of brainwashing media around them. Next time you a read news article, paper, TV show, documentary and movie. You must release that it is a one sided view with usually an agenda to it. The purpose is convince you into feeling and thinking like they want you think about the issue. The West today is occupied by modernized far-left think.

    • Kevin says:

      02:24pm | 12/04/11

      Yes, which is why the tin foil hat must be firmly in place before reading or watching anything.

    • Rosemary says:

      08:55am | 12/04/11

      I think I’ll stick with my Conservative brain that tells me that sharks are dangerous man-eaters which should be treated with the utmost caution, and ignore the ‘liberal’ brain which seems to suggest that sharks are simply misunderstood, that we should be empathic to their needs, that we shouldn’t be intolerant and should be more open and trusting, and in order to do that we need to get into the tank with them and give them all a big hug…

      tongue laugh

    • mid says:

      09:24am | 12/04/11

      Hugs to you Rosemary, it will be ok

    • John says:

      09:31am | 12/04/11

      So in sense liberalism creates a more dangerous society. It doesn’t care about statistics, pre-perceived notions or predicted future. It’s only dreams of ideals. Liberalism forces the people to live in this dangerous society, it also covers up the dangerous society it creates and creates the illusion that society is still safe. Marxist occupied nations such as Britain, US, Netherlands and France are perfect examples of this.

    • Reggie says:

      09:46am | 12/04/11

      I feel sure that sharks do not consider themselves dangerous man-eaters, besides, how can sharks keep evolving without a few cells from the more advanced species? To them self-important people are only another sort of food that holds the promise of a better future. How can you deny them and not feel guilty.

    • Paul Horn says:

      01:47pm | 12/04/11

      Are you inviting yourself Reggie? Please go ahead! 
      Regards!

    • Chris L says:

      07:15pm | 12/04/11

      Sharks are important to the ocean ecosystem, which would suffer immensely without them, which would eventually have an economic effect upon humanity (the portion that make a living from the produce of the sea).

      On the other hand, if you want to react out of fear - “They’re dangerous! Let’s kill them!”

    • John says:

      09:06am | 12/04/11

      Liberalism is all about not having the ability to think and allowing others to think for you. Conservatism is about having the ability to think and not allowing other to think for you. Can you imagine what Lenin and Stalin would do to you if you dared to think for your self! You would be slaughtered like cattle! Liberalism is an offshoot of Marxism and is foreign and alien to the west.. Conservatism is the nature political expression of the west. In a sense we must dislodge liberal totalitarian occupiers from the west so that we may not be oppressed anymore.

    • Reggie says:

      09:50am | 12/04/11

      John who is this “WE” you refer to?

      John “In a sense we must dislodge liberal totalitarian occupiers from the west so that we may not be oppressed anymore.”

    • Simon says:

      10:50am | 12/04/11

      Wow, I challenge you to be more wrong. I’m not sure it’s possible.

      Exagerating the oposing point of view to a point of absurdity doesn’t help the Conservative image. How about we look at it from the other side of the coin? Here goes…

      “Conservatism is all about racial supremacy and oppression of minorities. Liberalism is about acceptance of others a exploring new ideas. Can you imagine what the residents of a southern USA state in the 19th century would do to you if you dared be black, Jewish or gay? You would be strung up by your neck in a tree! Conservatism is an offshoot fascism and has no place in the modern world. Liberalism is the direction of human society to maintain our status as the dominant species on the planet. We must dislodge Conservative dictators so we may be free to think for ourselves and not be slaves to oppression!”

      Ridiculous? Undoubtedly. But no more so than the rubbish you’re spouting.

    • AdamC says:

      09:20am | 12/04/11

      I’m still not sure whether this was supposed to be a joke. Or are lefties now so devoid of arguments they are resorting to junk science to try to present dissent from ‘liberal’ orthodoxy as a disease?

      So much for those with liberal genes and active social lives (sounds like our Tory) being open to different points of view!

    • mid says:

      09:24am | 12/04/11

      Hugs to you John, it will be ok grin

    • Jim says:

      09:29am | 12/04/11

      I wonder if those with small amygdala’s will feel somewhat sheepish when the country is flat broke and ‘President’ Bob Brown is signing us up as an extension to the SE Asia Islamic State?

      Cave dwelling by candlelight, anyone?

    • Vladimir says:

      09:33am | 12/04/11

      Well, der! This is just science working backwards, trying to prove the obvious. Of course conservatives fear change, by definition. What this study doesn’t tell you is that the conservative brain is hard-wired on ideology to bypass reason. Just look at some of the comments here. Liberalism is the work of Lenin and Stalin? Hahahaha.

    • Tim says:

      10:18am | 12/04/11

      Yes just look at some of the comments here:
      “What this study doesn’t tell you is that the conservative brain is hard-wired on ideology to bypass reason”

      And your basis for this: a few random comments on an internet blog.
      Nice work genius.

    • Vlad says:

      10:51am | 12/04/11

      What I should have said is the conservative brain is hard-wired on ideology to bypass reason AND a sense of humour. Lighten up you neo-cons, and just plain old cons, you take yourselves far too seriously.

    • Matt says:

      09:43am | 12/04/11

      Riddle me this then, Tory. Why are most Liberal supporters (those who the scientists say are ruled by fear - being branded conservatives and rabid right-wing nuts by those from the left) open to the idea of Nuclear power being used in Australia, whilst the “progressives” (I’m looking at you, Greens - and Jim Green in particular) virtually wet themselves whenever you mention the word, and tell us that any source of radiation greater than a microwave is another Chernobyl waiting to happen?

    • Gather says:

      12:14pm | 12/04/11

      Because Matt, There is nothing Liberal about the Liberal party except it’s name. If names had to match political ideology, the Liberal party would be called the Conservative party, the Labor party would be call the Liberal party and the National party would be called the Hayseed party.
      No party openly supports nuclear power in Australia except One Nation - get your facts straight.

    • Matt says:

      12:30pm | 12/04/11

      Look up, Gather!

      It was neither a bird, a plane, nor a super-powered alien from another world. That was the point of my post sailing over your head.

    • Markus says:

      12:36pm | 12/04/11

      True liberal ideology tends to support minimal government intervention in everyday life. I have no idea how you could ever relate such an ideology to either major party, especially Labor.

    • James1 says:

      12:57pm | 12/04/11

      Robert Menzies named the Liberal Party in 1944.  He saw it as standing for liberty, as opposed to communism.  The name is apt.

    • andy says:

      02:03pm | 12/04/11

      You may have heard of this country called Japan that had some recent problems? I’m quite open to Nuclear power myself, but there are certainly concerns.

    • Matt says:

      02:46pm | 12/04/11

      Sure have andy. I can also rationalise the fact that Australia would a) use newer generation reactors, and b) be an order of magnitude less likely to have the sort of seismic activity that Japan has (and is continued to) experienced.

      Concern sounds like fear, andy. Don’t get all conservative on me now! wink

    • Gather says:

      05:36pm | 12/04/11

      sorry matt - you had a point?
      Must have been buried somewhere in all those words.
      Perhaps you could make it a bit simpler to understand without trying to be so very clever and losing the point altogether?

    • Matt says:

      06:34pm | 12/04/11

      I would simplify it for you, Gather, but I don’t know how to convey my point to you through cave paintings via The Punch. Anything more advanced may be too complex for you, considering how obtuse you’re acting.

    • Freeman says:

      09:54am | 12/04/11

      I welcome this study and only ask why such a study drew such narrow conclusions? Surely a thourough study comparing liberal V conservative brains would reveal all sorts of strengths, weaknesses and divisions in areas such as comprehension, critical thinking & IQ. It would also be interesting to see which group was more likely to fall victim to cons and false information & how they learn. to me it seems this study, or at least its conclusions, were tailored to accomodate a perception that conservative viewpoints could be dismissed as irrational fear.

    • Old Man Emu says:

      10:02am | 12/04/11

      The use of the word conservative is interesting as it is getting severely bastardised recently. Conservatives essentially make up the centre ground of the political spectrum (on both the left and right sides). Liberals on the other hand occupy the far left. Several studies have been done that indicate that those with conservative tendancies tend to react to issues in a logical fashion, whereas those on the left (particularly liberals) perceive all issues through an instant emotional response. This is particularly evident in the climate change debate.

    • Hundred says:

      12:43pm | 12/04/11

      Several studies?
      Where at the pub after closing time?
      It’s much simpler than all that
      Conservatives to the right, Liberals to the left.
      Fortunately most have us have a bit of both in us and are somewhere in the middle. We are called swinging voters because we weigh up the pro’s and con’s when we vote. We are not committed to the ideology of one party.

    • Danielb says:

      10:06am | 12/04/11

      Conservatives and liberals to me are both right and wrong. On the issues you mentioned:

      1. Islam - against it, i believe it’s a religion of intolerance and has no place in modern society.
      2. Euthanasia - 100% for it. It’s your body, your life and should be your right. (as long as it’s properly controlled)
      2. Climate change - It’s 100% real, but also a natural process of the earth that’s been going on since the earths creation. As for humanities impact on natural climate change, and whether we altering our emissions would have any impact at all. I’m not convinced.

      Where do I fit? Somewhere in the Libertarian side I believe, although even then there’s shades of grey.

    • Richard says:

      10:59am | 12/04/11

      I agree. I see myself as a libertarian too, which many left-wingers think is analogous to conservative, but I don’t see it that way, even if the end result may be practically similar.

      You see, whereas conservatives may be primarily motivated by a fear of change, libertarians are primarily motivated by a love of freedom and liberty. Therefore we can see how these differing motivations can still bring about similar positions on the issues you have raised above:

      1. Islam. While I believe that everyone should be free to practice whatever religion they choose to, I am disgusted by the prevailing attitudes in muslim countries which are justified on the basis of the teachings of Islam, i.e. the execution of people who choose to convert from Islam to Christianity, the repression and denial of liberties to women, the stoning of women who were raped because they “committed adultery” etc.

      I am not afraid of anyone or anything, but I sincerely condemn these attitudes and the ideology that brought them about, because of my love for individual liberty, equality and justice.

      2. Euthanasia. Don’t really have an opinion on this one. On the one hand, if you want to kill yourself, go ahead, I don’t care. But you’re a loser if you do. On the other hand, the medical profession’s first duty is to “do no harm”. I don’t see how helping to kill someone can qualify and “doing no harm”, but whatever, I don’t really care about euthanasia.

      3. Climate change. For me, if the question is “should we be doing everything we can to help protect the environment and look after the planet?”, then yes, I do believe we should. But I think that must be a personal decision, and its up to every individual to do their part, of their own free will.

      However, if the question is “should the State to step in and impose huge new taxation measures, and set up artificial perversions of the free market (which will most likely be rorted on a scale that makes the burning batts fiasco look mild)?”, then no, I cannot support such big brother interventionism.

    • papachango says:

      11:09am | 12/04/11

      You’re a small l liberal aka a libertarian. Tory has erroneously defined ‘small l liberal’ as ‘leftwing sociialist’, something the Amercians also do.

    • Tory Shepherd

      Tory Shepherd says:

      01:16pm | 12/04/11

      Hey papachango… no, I was using it as in someone tolerant, free from prejudice or bigotry, who is favourable to progress or reform, as in the Australian Macquarie Dictionary definition below…

      [‘libruhl] [‘libuhruhl] adjective,
      1. favourable to progress or reform, as in religious or political affairs.
      2. (upper case) upper case of or relating to the Liberal Party of Australia, or any of various Liberal parties in other countries.
      3. favourable to or in accord with the policy of leaving the individual as unrestricted as possible in the opportunities for self-expression or self-fulfilment.
      4. of representational forms of government rather than aristocracies and monarchies.
      5. free from prejudice or bigotry; tolerant.
      6. giving freely or in ample measure a liberal donor.
      7. given freely or abundantly a liberal donation.
      8. not strict or rigorous a liberal interpretation of a rule.
      9. befitting a freeman, a gentleman, or a non-professional person.
      noun,
      10. a person of liberal principles or views, especially in religion or politics.
      11. (upper case) upper case a member or supporter of the Liberal Party of Australia, or any of various Liberal parties in other countries.
      phrase,
      12. , small `l’ liberal
      12.1 a person with progressive views, favourable to reform (often as opposed to a supporter of the politically conservative policies of a Liberal Party, such as the Liberal Party of Australia).
      12.2 relating to such people or their views small `l’ liberal principles.
      lang: Middle English. , from Latin līberālis relating to a free man. liberally, adverb, liberalness, noun.

    • Danielb says:

      01:23pm | 12/04/11

      I dunno, I wouldn’t call myself a small l liberal. The definition seems to be a moderate, a middle ground between the two. Which I’m not. I pick some extremes from both sides. For example on some Australian issues: I am in complete support of abortion rights and was extremely annoyed when Tony Abbot vetoed the RU486 pill (which is still hard to come by in Australia if at all), I am strongly pro-nuclear power, I am anti-carbon tax, I am for lower-tax brackets for the 80-180k range, I am against the luxury car tax, I am anti speed camera, I am anti-nanny state in any way. I am against banning certain types of shots at bars, or energy drinks and alcohol, I am against enforced closing times and lockouts, I am pro decriminalisation of drugs and legalisation of certain other drugs (ecstacy and marijuana for example), I am supportive of taking a hardline stanch on illegal boat people, I am anti-war. I am in full support of conservative economic policies and would like to see a toughening up of our welfare system. However I am deeply opposed to the privatisation of certain public infrastructure (power, police, military).

      A big mix, but certainly not taking a soft stance to appease both traditional sides.

    • papachango says:

      01:41pm | 12/04/11

      Tory you’ll see from your own cut-and-paste definition that the word ‘liberal’ has many conflicting meanings - I favour No 3 as it is the original definition of liberal (see the UK Whigs etc). I’ll normally call it ‘classical liberal’ to distinguish it from all those other meanings.

      I’m not convinced 12.1a is correct in an Australian context. Lee Rhiannon would call her policical views ‘progressive’, but would anyone call her a small ‘l’ liberal?

      In any case your article implies that small ‘l’ liberal is the diamterical opposite of conservative, which is something the Amercials do, and which also implies that liberal = left wing. This is simply not true outside the US definition, as economically liberals tend to be for the free market and minimal government regulation.

    • papachango says:

      01:49pm | 12/04/11

      Danielb - maybe small ‘l’ liberal is the wrong word, buit based on your stated views you’re a fairly hardcore libertarian (I’m not saying this is a bad thing; I’ve got very similar views on a lot of your issues)

      Your positions are in fact approaching but not quite minarchism - which says that individuals should be free to do as they like provided they don’t remove liberty from others and that the only legitimate role for the government is to prevent people from harming each other (police, coutrts, military, defence).

      A true minarchist is pretty radical and would have no government welfare and totally privatised infrastructure; I suspect you’d fall short of this, as most pragmatic libertarians would.

    • Danielb says:

      02:05pm | 12/04/11

      Thanks papachango, that’s actually an extremely accurate assessment of my ideals and beliefs,  Cheers.
      If only there was a political party for me, haha

    • papachango says:

      03:01pm | 12/04/11

      Danielb - the LDP (ldp.org.au) is as close as you’ll get. They’re only tiny but worth voting for in the Senate.

      One of the weaknesses of libertarianism as a political ideology is that to be sucessful as a political party you have to be hungry for power - which is kind of contradictory for a small government advocate.

      Sometimes I think they’d do better as a grass-roots lobby/ activist group, sort of like GetUp!, They generally argue for more regulation, more taxes, and more restrictions on individual freedom, so maybe it’s time they had some competition! Though unlike GetUp! my mob would try not to be partisan…

    • Danielb says:

      03:31pm | 12/04/11

      Mate I would definitely join and become involved in that lobby group!
      While Getup have one or two good campaigns, on the whole they’re often counter to what I believe in, I would love to see some competition for them.

    • Richard says:

      04:16pm | 12/04/11

      Yep Papachango and Danielb: lets do it!

      We’ll call ourselves the ‘Liberal Radicals’.

      Lib-Rad for short.

      And we’ll advocate for hardcore Libertarian ideals in the context of the Australian political environment.

      Who else is in?

    • papachango says:

      05:41pm | 12/04/11

      Richard - could I respectfully suggest HandsOff! as a name? As in the government getting its hands off our individual freedoms.

    • Matt says:

      06:36pm | 12/04/11

      I’m in for libertarianism! Sign me up to HandsOff! *thumbs up*

    • Nick Buick says:

      09:03pm | 12/04/11

      I’m with Danielb also. On a lot of things my views coincide with the Liberal party (lower taxation, tougher welfare, more free market enterprise, tougher sentencing for violent criminals, tougher immigration policies) on some things my views coincide with the Greens (decriminalized drugs, banning of firearms, separation of church and state). Although most of the idiotic Green policies outweigh the small offering of sensible policies they deliver. The ALP don’t seem to offer any policies aside from kick-backs to union thugs, marketing spin, vote buying and systemic rorts - I’d see more sense in putting a bikie gang in charge of the country.

      To me there’s nothing radical about Laissez Faire Liberalist / Minarchist philosophy - it’s a perfectly reasonable political ideology summarized by PJ O`Rourke: “There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences.”
      As I see it, we pool our taxes to ensure vital infrastructure and keep us safe from violent crime and foreign invasion… somewhere along the way, however, this concept got hijacked with arts grants, subsidized industries, lobby groups, Kerry O’Brien, Tim Flannery and all manner of superfluous skulduggery which really has nothing to do with why people actually pay tax…

      The abortion point is an interesting one - I think it’s an unfortunate reality that some people require abortion in the very early stages of an unplanned pregnancy (such as the first 8 weeks - when RU486 is viable), however second and third trimester abortion based purely on social reasons should most certainly not be allowed in a civilised society. The Victorian abortion act allowing abortion at 9 months for any reason is utterly horrendous - unborn children should be entitled to liberty also - There’s a grey area between removing an unwanted embryo and killing a living human being and I think at the second and third trimesters that gray line is crossed. My own son was born 5 weeks premature so I know first-hand what a third trimester baby looks like and I can assure you they’re a living, thinking, human being.

    • iansand says:

      10:11am | 12/04/11

      Your comment:It is nice to have some academic support for my characterisation of some contributors here as scared weird little guys.

    • MarK says:

      10:12am | 12/04/11

      ”  Tory Shepherd says:

        08:52am | 12/04/11

        ‘pwned’ indeed, if an anonymous online poster trumps the authors of peer-reviewed, published research.”

      Yes.

      Because the peer review system works so well as we all know.

      /facepalm

    • James1 says:

      11:27am | 12/04/11

      Its not perfect, but it works better than anonymous online comments.

      My evidence: John above.

    • SemiFredo says:

      12:22pm | 12/04/11

      Nothing wrong with the peer review system unless it disagree with your political ideology eh MarK?

      /headdesk

    • MarK says:

      01:01pm | 12/04/11

      “Nothing wrong with the peer review system unless it disagree with your political ideology eh MarK?”

      You got that out of what I wrote?

      Nice segue.

      Once upon a time science was about perpetual questioning. Now it is about group think and politics and thinly disguised ideology.

      All you have to do is look at the ridiculous statement of SemiFredo.

      Immediately SemiFredo assumes I agree with anything peer reviewed if it suits me. It tries to put words in my mouth in an effort to discredit. It reads volumes between a one line statement of mine and I repeat it here for clarity.

      “Because the peer review system works so well as we all know.”

      What a pathetically boorish retort. Explain where you got it from.

      Peer review and “science” is about as credible as Asian cricket morals. They did it to themselves.

      In a similar way historians have debased the art by their pathetic wars.

      All you did was paint yourself as the ideologue and a twit to boot.

    • SemiFredo says:

      06:48pm | 12/04/11

      You win MarK
      People who just come up with scientific sounding “stuff” that meets their political ideology are more reliable with the “papers” they produce than Scientists who submit work for peer review and have their work validated.

      As long as your twisted analysis doesn’t harm anyone else, go with it.

    • mw says:

      10:16am | 12/04/11

      Nice article Tory. Way to feed the trolls wink

    • papachango says:

      10:52am | 12/04/11

      I take these sorts of ‘research’ with a grain of salt.

      There was another one that found that conservatives are happier, more optimistic have better sex lives and hug their children more, whereas left wingers are angry and unhappy. There was another ‘peer reviewed, published’ study by a leading psychologist that said liberalism (in the US sense) is actually a mental disorder, a from of neurosis and irrational thinking.

      I think all of these, including the contention that ‘conservatives are more sensitive to threat or anxiety in the face of uncertainty, while liberals tend to be more open to new experiences’ is just bollocks, pushed by one ideological side against another.

      However, Tory I must take issue with your use of the US definition of ‘liberal’, and framing it against a liberal-conservative (read left wing / right wing) dichotomy. Even worse, you use the term small ‘l’ liberal, and imply that that is somehow left wing.

      I consider myself a small ‘l’ or classical liberal - the key underpinning philosophy is maximising individual freedom and minimising government intervention in individuals daily lives. This puts it at odds with left-wing ideologies such as socialism (we uashamedly support free market, laissez-faire capitalism), and also with some aspects of conservatism (e.g we tend to support voluntary euthanasia and recreational drug legalisation).

      You mention the Tea Party; while some of the more vocal members are conservative, it is at its core an economically small ‘l’ liberal movement, opposing the socialist policies of the Obama government, and anti -Big Government in general.

      Noel Pearson once nailed it in a lecture - there are not two, but three basic political ideologies - liberalism, conservatism and socialism. People can draw on all three but generally will be stronger in one, and to suggest it’s because of some mental deficiency is silly.

    • Richard says:

      11:47am | 12/04/11

      Tory also notably failed to pass comment on the recent research out of Sweden which proved that conservatives are much better looking and more attractive than left-wingers. One-sided commentary much Tory?

    • Chase Stevens says:

      12:52pm | 12/04/11

      Socialist Policies? Good god.

      His Policies are nothing like Socialism, Socialists should feel insulted by the comparison. His Policies are more like Reform Liberalism than Socialism.

    • Tory Shepherd

      Tory Shepherd says:

      01:19pm | 12/04/11

      See response above, papa chango.. .

      Richard, hilarious! I hadn’t actually come across that research, I’ll Google it now.

      Not sure that counts as one-sided commentary if I happen not to see something, but.

    • papachango says:

      01:54pm | 12/04/11

      Chase - maybe socialist is a slight exaggeration and social democratic is more accurate description of Obama’s policies. Still on the socialist side of the economic scale however.

      But they’re definitiely not ‘liberal’, in any sense of the word outside the US - liberal is all about less power to the government, less government spending and less government intervention / regulation, and Obama is the opposite.

    • Chase Stevens says:

      02:20pm | 12/04/11

      Socialist is a huuuge exaggeration. Huge. Social-Democrat is a slight exaggeration. Obama has done nothing to change the U.S Capitalist System to a Socialist one. He and his party fit more - I believe - the Reform Liberal (or Social Liberal) mold than anything Socialist.

      The definition of Liberal you are using papachango is Classical Liberalism.

    • Michael says:

      10:55am | 12/04/11

      Well actually its liberals who fear climate change and conservatives who are “open to it”

    • hermes says:

      10:57am | 12/04/11

      Here’s the article, if anyone wants to wade through all the turgid academic jargon http://www.biostat.jhsph.edu/~courses/bio624/misc/brains.pdf . Incidentally, the study was done on 90 young adults recruited from a university, and on their self-reported political orientation. Self reporting is notoriously open to bias, such as the Hawthorne Effect. In addition, the sample was already, to some extent, self selected from the university population. Thus, its generalisability to the population is debatable; and the authors agree, saying “It therefore remains an open question whether our findings will generalize to these other groups or whether such demographic
      factors may modulate the relationship that we observed.” Further, most personality models no longer assume that human behaviour and traits are fixed; rather that this is mutable and situational. For example, I might profess liberalism in a university setting, but express more conservative attitudes in say, a blue-collar setting.

    • Warwick says:

      11:10am | 12/04/11

      Tory’s previous piece attempted to belittle a member of parliament for asserting that Islam supports beheading. Most of the replies that attempted to produce some evidence on the matter showed very clearly that it is in Islamic societies that beheading is practiced, by both the authorities and free-lancers.

    • Tory Shepherd

      Tory Shepherd says:

      01:20pm | 12/04/11

      Beheading being practiced by some in some Islamic society is far from proof that Islam as a whole sanctions it.

    • Freeman says:

      01:35pm | 12/04/11

      “Beheading being practiced by some in some Islamic society is far from proof that Islam as a whole sanctions it”

      While that is true, islam as whole seems pretty accepting of some brutal treatment. And by accepting I mean there there is little voice for change from within.

    • John says:

      01:48pm | 12/04/11

      Be-headings most likely occurred before Islam birth. But it’s seems like Islam incorporated it and didn’t do away with it. I once read when the Muslims invaded the Spain, they beheaded their enemy’s (Christians) that christian were horrified by the practice. That they themselves retaliated back by doing the same. Richard the Lion heart had a heap of Muslims Military prisoners decapitated at Acre. But it seems like Muslim Soldiers created the standard and everyone followed. Be-headings still occur with in Islamic Military circles, Bosnian, Chechnya but it’s not a practice by christian soldiers of the 20th century.

    • andy says:

      02:14pm | 12/04/11

      @Freeman why dont you try googling “muslims condemn beheadings”? Just because you and most of the rest of the world arent listening to them doesnt mean they arent speaking out.

    • Freeman says:

      03:53pm | 12/04/11

      Andy

      I didn’t limit the criteria to beheadings and we shouldn’t exclude Australia’s Islamic community from those who could/should
      Be VERY vocal in calling for the end of the brutal practices of Islam. I’m sure a quick google search would identify some Islamic groups who don’t necessarily agree with such practices but show me some evidence that the weight of popular opinion within the Islamic world is against brutal punishments and oppressive treatment of women. Has there been much in the way of public demonstrations lately? There would be if it was still accepted in the western world.  Brutal punishment and the oppressive treatment of women can also be associated with the dark ages of European history and progressive types can take much of the credit for changing that. For some reason when it comes to Islam, progressive types want to pretend it’s not common place and that Islamic migrants to Australia don’t hold onto a way of life that includes the oppression of women and aggression toward non believers.

    • Bret says:

      11:41am | 12/04/11

      Political Anthropology makes about as much sense as Anthropological Criminology.

    • Paul Horn says:

      01:55pm | 13/04/11

      Oh Dr B.S Staye the sarcastic wit just floors me! What does the B.S stand for , Bullshit or doctorate in therapeutic ass sniffing? 

      So tell me every time some “expert” financial planner knocks on your door with a trail of initials after his name offering you a fantastic real estate deal you jump at it? I mean he is an expert so just hand your money over and no pesky questions!

      So please respond to my questions - show us your doctorate so to speak.

    • Roland says:

      11:44am | 12/04/11

      ‘And then there’s climate change, where it’s the exact reverse.’

      On the contrary, conservatives fear the implications that responding to climate change would have on their traditional lifestyles, hence the reluctance to admit that climate change is a real phenomenon.

    • Danielb says:

      12:06pm | 12/04/11

      No one in their right mind denies climate change, what people are questioning is whether or not anthropomorphic climate change is actually having a significant impact on the global climate, and whether any human action (which way or the other) will have an effect.

    • Roland says:

      12:42pm | 12/04/11

      fair enough dan. but if is simply a case of science, i don’t quite understand why there is a ‘conservative’ side and a ‘liberal’ side to the argument. agenda must be a factor, and i can’t for the life of me work out why the liberals would actually want the world to be in environmental danger. i can easily see however why the conservatives would want it to be untrue.

    • Chase Stevens says:

      12:47pm | 12/04/11

      Of course Humans are having an affect, we cannot simply pump out billions of tonnes of CO2 pollution and have no effect on the Global Climate.

    • Danielb says:

      01:02pm | 12/04/11

      But Chase Stevens, what does billions of tonnes of Co2 really mean in context? Sure it sounds impressive, but honestly do you know what that really means? I’ll freely admit I haven’t researched this enough, but for example if you have a system where it’s typical content is a sextillion, a billion means nothing. Everything needs to be critically analysed and thought about in context.

    • David C says:

      01:09pm | 12/04/11

      Roland it is not a matter of whatever it takes, there are always costs involved in actions.
      All the coalition is saying is does the suggested action justify the cost, for what effect and is there a better way to deal with this issue?.

    • Freeman says:

      01:25pm | 12/04/11

      Chase,

      If humans pumped billions of tonnes of carbon into the atmosphere they would most certainly affect the enviroment, but a tonne of c02 does not equal a tonne of carbon

    • Paul Horn says:

      01:36pm | 12/04/11

      Now there’s a strange counterpoint to Torys argument and illustrates the wacky thinking of the left ! Chase here makes a sweeping generalisation that we must be having a massive impact on the Earth because of all that nasty CO2 we’re pumping out. Typical leftist liberal thinking. Nature good, mankind bad!!!

      But tell me Chase exactly what proportion of the temperature variation is exactly attributable to man made CO2? 10%, 20% or 100%. And if you are so sure that the last 30 years of supposed temperature increase is solely die to wicked mankind then please enlighten me on the exact reasons as to why a similar increase occured between 1910 and 1940?

      Or why or how you can determine a trend of 0.6 degress warming from a graph that fluctuates by 2 to 3 degrees year to year???  How can you determine a trend when the data from which you are making a detemination exhibits noise levels 3 to 4 times greater? 

      Not so long ago the Left were screaming and shouting that we were about to be consumed by Nuclear Armageddon. But lets not consider the fact that nuclear weapons have enabled us to enjoy 70 years of peace in the West, something unheard of in the annals of Western Civilisation.

      Sp please Tory research the facts. For the past 40 years the scare mongering has been coming from the Progressives and elitists that inhabit the media and academe and on their record we don’t have much to worry about gloibal whore mongering either. 

      So pleae leave the facts and the issues to the right and go back to sipping your inner city frappacino skinny soy latte’s. We’ll tell you when there is an issue you need to worry about!

    • andy says:

      02:12pm | 12/04/11

      @PaulHorn “Typical leftist liberal thinking. Nature good, mankind bad!!!”

      Way to take a scientific argument, which is basically “is it happening or not” and frame it as part of some kind of political divide. The climate isn’t liberal, nor is it conservative. The truth of whether we are affecting the climate or not has nothing at all to do with how you feel about Liberals. You are showing your obvious bias before getting to any arguments at all. Science has given you everything you are trying to protect. Your energy. your plentiful food, even the internet for you to argue on. You don’t trust it in this case, however, even when the vast majority of scientific opinion is in agreement.

      I myself would love to hear it was all a big mistake, that we aren’t significantly changing how our climate works in short period. It does look like it is probably happening, though. One would think the “conservative” approach would be to try to deal with the problem, even if we arent 100% sure of all the details.

    • Chase Stevens says:

      02:13pm | 12/04/11

      I’m not going to claim that I know everything about climate science - because I don’t.

      But it seems irrational to me to believe that Humans can pump out billions of tonnes of additional CO2 (among others) into a closed system year on year and have no noticeable effect on the Climate. Seems utterly irrational to believe we can.

      Now Freeman I’m not quite sure what you mean by “a tonne of c02 does not equal a tonne of carbon”. 

      Paul Horn I am a Left leaning Liberal! Spot on. But I bet you don’t really understand what that means do you?

    • Paul Horn says:

      06:28pm | 12/04/11

      Oh Andy I am just a dickwit Engineer! Unlike News Corp journalists I ask for the facts and the numbers that support them. I have made two statements that seriously question the validity of the global warming hypothesis.

      That is what science does. Scientists seeks to convince themselves not by what some of their notable contemparies may claim but by what the evidence is telling them. And the evidence presented to date is a complete furphy. I asked two simple questions that should be able to be answered by the climate believers but I never get any response.

      Therefore I can only conclude that the science is not in, not by a long way! If the temperature had been rising steadily since the 1940’s and by a factor greater than the general year to year fluctuations (noise) the case would be much much stronger and far harder to deny. But this is far from the truth.

      And while I do not believe that we are significantly altering the climate by our actions I do wholeheartedly support any initiative to stem pollution and toxic emissions. Much has been achived over the past four decades. Vehicles are significantly cleaner than their predecessors. Power plants are significantly more efficient than their forebears! I have built and commissioned quite a few from gas to coal fired units.

      However whatever measures we take to reduce CO2 will impact upon our lifestyle. The more severe the measures the greater will be our impoverishment. The idiot Greens believe in shutting down all coal fired power stations, nay in fact all non renewable energy sources. That is utter madness.  Renewable sources can only support a fraction of our energy needs.

      If you want to live like a North Korean then go join the Greens. Welcome to the next Dark very Dark Age.

    • Dr. B S Staye says:

      06:59pm | 12/04/11

      Paul Horn
      Don’t be so hard on yourself. Just because you are custodial engineer and clean the loos in office blocks doesn’t make you a dickwit. Somebody has to do those jobs and there is dignity in doing your job well.
      Perhaps you are very adept after all these years in determining what the proper combination of cleaning elements should be in solution to achieve the cleanest block in the building. Perhaps you have even won an inter-company competition with regard to this. Good Work, be proud of yourself if this is the case.
      I do not however believe you have the expertise to be taken seriously when it comes to AGW. Perhaps you can point us to some of your peer reviewed papers (not toilet papers) that support your outburst?
      If you haven’t had a chance to submit those papers, perhaps you can point us to someone else’s peer reviewed papers? Anyones?

    • Chris L says:

      07:37pm | 12/04/11

      @Paul It’s fair enough to be cautious and seek evidence, I believe that the scientific community tends to practice this approach which would explain why evolution and gravity are still considered theories.

      As someone who is not an expert, however, I am left wondering what volume of chloro-fluoro-carbons were necessary for the near disastrous hole in the ozone layer. I expect the amount would be far less than other pollutants we happily pump into the atmosphere while counting our dollars.

    • AnthonyG says:

      12:45pm | 12/04/11

      I find it laughable that the Greenies call Liberals conservative.
      The greenies want us all to go back to a stone age type lifestyle.
      I don’t think anyone who isn’t a Greenie would give the time of day to a Geenie let alone take them seriously on any issue. But i must admit they are funny even though they aren’t trying to be funny

    • BC says:

      02:12pm | 12/04/11

      Try putting some facts into your argument instead of the old “greenies want us to go back to stone age” rubbish. The Greens are the only ones campaigning for new technology in inexhaustable fuel supply while your beloved Liberals hold fast to their Luddite views and want to keep digging stuff out of the ground. Let’s see who takes us back to the stone age when we overreach peak supply on exhaustable fuels. The truly laughable are people like you who persist in this stupid “astro-turfing” without any substance.

    • NicoleG says:

      02:42pm | 12/04/11

      Spare your drivel for your hippie friends. The Greens are a bunch of whacko nut-jobs, who have no idea. In the mean time, go hug a tree.

    • Bikinis On Top says:

      03:54pm | 12/04/11

      After July 1 2011, The Liberal festive season is over.
      Greens and Labor will run the Australian senate.
      No more “Barry And Ted’s Excellenture Adventure” in Victoria And New South Wales.No more “Barry and Ted’s Bogus Journey in NSW and Victoria

    • Agents Of Carnage says:

      12:47pm | 12/04/11

      Cautious conservatives who don’t want for much beyond peace and quiet create stable societies that reflect those preferences. Stability is too boring for restless liberals who want for everything so they tinker and argue and change until the society crumbles under the warring of its own competing interests. Then, as history proves, the conservatives start the cycle again.
      Conservatives have fear because they know the damage the blindly optimistic liberals have inflicted, and will continue to inflict, on their carefully crafted societies since time on earth began.
      This thinking they can do better mindset is also why liberals are less likely to be spiritual than conservatives. Something called God is not going to tell those who know it all what to do with their egos that all the ancient and modern texts agree is what they were sent here to deal with.

    • Paul Horn says:

      02:23pm | 12/04/11

      Agents of Carange are you reading what you are saying my friend?

      Over the past 40 years all the scare mongering has come from the Left! Nuclear Armageddon, gloiballs warmening, unfettered capitalism, George Bush, Margaret Thatcher, free marke evils bla bla bla.

      It is they who create the fear not decent right minded people! 

      Conservatives raise issues out of rational thinking. They look at the evidence, weigh the facts in an objective manner and don’t go off half cocked on some fanciful thinking that supports their destructive political philosophies!

    • Simon says:

      03:35pm | 12/04/11

      @Paul
      Mate, you have to stop drinking the Church wine before posting!

      All the scare mongering is coming from the left? You must be standing an awful long way from the centre if Tony Abbott is on your left!! FYI, George Bush (both of them) headed the United States Republican Party - a right wing party. They were both every bit as much a right wing nutter as the other.

    • Paul Horn says:

      06:06pm | 12/04/11

      Thanks Simon for taking the time to reply. I don’t know if you fully comprehended what I was saying. George Bush (junior) headed the Republican Party as did his father and were’nt we reminded of it every single bloody day by a ravenous press that vented their spleen and contempt for his leadership.

      Conversely the fool now running the USA suffers no such vitriol. He has singlehandedly failed to revive the USA’s economy yet the mainstream press continue to fawn at his feet.

      I could’nt help but laugh listening to the ABC or 5AA here in Adelaide. Not a day passed where these trotskyists criticised Bush’s presidency yet I hear utterly nothing except slobbering worship for his successor.

      Sick to the extreme.

    • Chase Stevens says:

      01:02pm | 12/04/11

      Has no one in this comment thread actually read anything on Political Ideologies? I mean come on. Very few people actually seem to understand what Liberalism and Conservatism are.

    • Bikinis on Top says:

      01:12pm | 12/04/11

      along with the fights in Taiwan parliament, this story is the most recurring story in the daily telegraph. Every time, they are short of stories , out comes the Liberal /Conservative differences in brains with fear and openness And the old right and left hemisphere brain use stories.
      Even the great oracle,  Piers Akerman comments on this story in January 2011 Daily telegraph saying that the fear of Conservatives made them less reckless , more cautious, more circumspect and therefore more intelligent than Labor Party voters. Liberals won the subsequent NSW State Election.

    • Nick Buick says:

      01:39pm | 12/04/11

      I think the photo in this story sums up most concisely what Tory is trying to say:

      While the brain-eating zombie is irrationally feared by the conservative for attacking his society and values, taking over his country and feasting on his children - the lefty, from the safety of their inner-city cafe, knows that the brain-eating zombie is actually a creature of peace, it means no harm to society, there is a lot we can gain from embracing the wonderful brain eating zombie, any attacks are purely coincidental and anyone who so much as mentions a relationship between the brain-eating zombie and the increase in people having their brains eaten is simply a narrow-minded bigot who obviously never attended the Brain Eating Zombie Affairs lecture at their university.

    • Paul Horn says:

      02:06pm | 12/04/11

      Yes Nick exactly. Unless of course that Zombie happens to be George Bush or Margaret Thatcher or John Howard or the Church then of course those zombies become hateful fearful creatures that must be opposed with extreme irrationality!!!!.

      Anything Nick that acts to support or strengthen Western Civilisation must be opposed and denounced in earnest. However any direct threat to the survival of the West must be encouraged and supported.

      Just look at how the elites rally to protect the culture of other “peoples” but spew hatred and contempt at the Christian churches, the basis for Western Cultural values.  The Left will scream bloody murder at anyone who criticises Aboriginal Dream Time beliefs as a simple superstition yet will publicly vent their hatred and contempt at Christianity, the cultural basis for the Western World.

      Any time you look at any Leftist issue you will logically conclude that the adherents are stark raving mad. A danger to logic and rationality! They should be trussed up and kept in steel cages!

    • John says:

      09:09pm | 12/04/11

      Paul Horn They are Marxists!

      Western society has be subverted to the marxist caused since WWII. They have intertwined with democratic and liberty movements for their own benefit. Slowly brainwashed our children to their cause. Nations such as London, France, Germany, Sweden, Netherlands. Prompting mass immigration into the West, Using Human Rights Organizations to manipulate and force the west to take immigrants. They also prompt anti-christianity. They want to destroy the old west, destroy christianity, european people and their nations. They want to create a red state to replaced it. I’m sure they also dream of Satan him self leading the red satanic state. REDs and the DEVIL is so matching.

    • Nick says:

      02:48pm | 12/04/11

      Just quietly, I wouldn’t cite the belief of a magical invisible sky-jew as a hallmark of logic and rationality wink. I think conservatives basing arguments on “because jesus says” do their causes more damage than good…

    • Ron E Coote says:

      04:07pm | 12/04/11

      Here we go again, another fine example of lefty public masturbation, and intellectual vanity. Almost as much a constant as a Labor deficit.
      FIGJAMmers of the world unite! Not only do we think we are better than anyone else, we (surprise, surprise) have a study to “prove” it…
      I told you my opinions are more important than yours, well there’s your proof.
      Give me a break.

    • Bobster says:

      04:34pm | 12/04/11

      I call bullshit on the climate change argument.

      To say conservatives are less fearful of it is tripe - they’re petrified. They are scared shitless that it might affect their income and that, my friend, is the root of all conservative fear.

      Threaten their cash and watch their amygdalas expand like the housing bubble.

    • AdamC says:

      05:12pm | 12/04/11

      Bobster, I think you have horribly confused yourself.

      Perhaps you meant to argue that conservatives are afraid of measures to reduce emissions in response to concerns about climate change? After all, those measures are likely to affect our income (and yours).

      On the other hand, if climate change itself is going to reduce conservatives’ incomes, wouldn’t they (by your logic) be mad keen on any steps taken to mitigate it?

      Do you see the problems with your contention?

    • Reggie says:

      08:56pm | 12/04/11

      AdamC “Perhaps you meant to argue that conservatives are afraid of measures to reduce emissions in response to concerns about climate change?”

      Not at all. Conservatives are reduced to immobility in the hope of a short term solution. The childish expectation that if they cover their eyes their worries will vanish. Conservatives have two repetitive fears, going to sleep and waking up.

    • felix says:

      05:21pm | 12/04/11

      I have read everything here three times. I dont understand it. When I was about 8, I asked Dad “what sort of glue do I need for my model aeroplane”. My parents were always grumpy. . He said “use your brains”. How does that work? Anyway I asked Mum. She said “dear oh dear, you really have no brains”. I was confused. I got sick after a long time. The doctor said I would have to have an encefflogram. I said what is that. He said “it measures your brainwaves”. I said there was no need to do that, Mum said I had no brains. I am 97 now. Goodbye.

    • Max Redlands says:

      05:31pm | 12/04/11

      Conservatism is,  imho, not necesasarily opposed to progress - what the conservative aims to do is make sure that things that are worthwhile keeping are kept (conserved) and that in the course of progress the baby isn’t thrown out with the bath water.

      What a lot of left wing types consider to be a conservative - i.e. some one who objects to ALL change is better decribed as a reactioanary.

      While for the most part I don’t consider myself “of the left” that doesn’t necessarily mean I am conservative. Like a few posters above I, too, lean to the more libertarian view and concur with the idea that the government that governs least governs best.

      Most of the left wing agenda seems to centre around/result in more government control/regulation not less.

      Consequently, you don’t have to be left wing to be liberal if your definition of liberal relates to “liberty” .

    • Reggie says:

      06:41pm | 12/04/11

      Sorry, can’t agree with this Max.

      Max; “What a lot of left wing types consider to be a conservative - i.e. some one who objects to ALL change is better decribed as a reactionary.”

      Overlooking the categorization as “types,” a reactionary responds quickly and decisively if not always correctly to the situation that is thrust upon them.

      John Howard’s failure to react when faced with gigantic financial reserves could only be classified as conservative. The second response to the Global collapse cannot be ruled as unnecessary when considering Australia’s buoyancy relative to those of other world economies. Not a reactionary response either, a considered one that appears to have worked if results are any indicator.

    • Max Redlands says:

      08:39pm | 12/04/11

      What?!

      I thought political “types” - for what they’re worth-  is what this thread is about.

      I really can’t see how your disagreement, such as it is , has anything to do with what I said.

      Pray tell, why the specific reference to Howard and what exactly are you trying to say? It’s not very clear to me I’m afraid.

      I dont’ know what dictionary you use but my shorter Oxford reads :

      A. adjective: of or pertaining to, or characterized by, reaction: inclined or favourable to reaction, esp.to the reversal of an exisiting political state of affairs.

      Google immediately offered up : an extremely conservative person

      Your response complely misses the point because you don’t seem, to me, to have an understanding of the definition of the word ,especially when used in this type of discusion.

      Don’t take my word for it - look it up yourself.

      Back to the topic generally,  I agree with the comment above that suggests looking at this as a dichotomy is too simplistic. At the very least not only is there the left / right axis but there is also another at 90 degrees which has totalitarianism at one end and anarchy at the other.

      And even that is too simplistic. Politics, like the mind, is gyroscopic if not kaliedoscopic.

    • Reggie says:

      09:07am | 13/04/11

      Max, you have categorized those who resist change as reactionary. How can a person who fails to react to a stimulus be called reactionary? 

      The thread is about a tendency, not about a type of person. A person of lesser imagination will not see the danger and make changes such as to avoid the situation, they will sit stolidly and unmoved until the train runs them down and cuts them into little pieces.  Their choice to remain undisturbed (conservative) was their downfall. Now what else is there?

      A conservative cherishes the status quo and to a greater or lesser extent, most Australians are conservative, but the ultra-right-wing live in the past, cherishing the status quo as an old-fashioned God-given right to rule, much like Henry the VIII did.

      Max “At the very least not only is there the left / right axis but there is also another at 90 degrees which has totalitarianism at one end and anarchy at the other.” Max you’ve been playing too many computer games unless you’re referring to the third dimension derived from dividing zero by zero.

      No that’s unkind, perhaps you’re thinking about the four quadrants of learning and reacting in which case you need to develop your ideas.

    • John says:

      09:35am | 13/04/11

      totalitarianism on the right end?

      Communist Russia was a far-left movement that was a totalitarian movement. They had a one party state. The other so called totalitarian parties on the right, were in time of war. Voting would of been the last thing on their minds. If the NAZI’s had won the war? You think they would of got rid of voting? You think the NAZI’s would purged the German people like the Bolsheviks did to the Russians? Look at Franco in Spain, he fought the Radical Left Marxist and Communists. WWII was a time of communist threat. Communism was the definition of Totalitarianism.

    • Reggie says:

      10:42am | 13/04/11

      John, hijacking political philosophies has created the chaos intended in the minds of many voter.

      The French Revolution was hijacked by Napoleon and if you’ll recall, when Beethoven heard about Napoleon crowning himself Emperor, he scrubbed out his dedication of the 3th Symphony. Stalin hijacked the revolution of the people and turned himself into a tyrant. Franco turned a democratic election into a war of tyranny with the help of Hitler.

      Liberalism in Australia is misrepresented as the freedom of the people to do as they wish, a deception of course. Robert Gordon Menzies was merely high-jacking the goodwill of true liberalism when all along the Liberal Party actually meant the freedom of the very FEW to dominate the MANY. The exact opposite of liberalism.

      This is also why they cannot get themselves elected in their own right and require a coalition with the Nationals, another dis-affected party, to achieve their exclusionary goals.  They can point at the Greens as much as they like but it’s only to distract everyone from that giant Albatross hanging around their own necks.

    • Max Redlands says:

      11:05am | 13/04/11

      Reggie I don’t ccategorize thsoe who resisit change as reactionary - every dictionary I have read does the same thing.

      As for your resopimse to my suggestion re another line through the left right axis as much as i would like to take credit for it it’s not my idea and is one that has been around a while. read about it here:

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_compass.

      Computer games? Ha!!

      this leads me to John’s comment (which i think is directed to me).

      You misunderstand the concept - totalitarian regimes can be both left and right. The thing is they end up the same thing . There is not much (if any) difference between a totalitarian Fascist or Stalinist regime. similarly anarchy is anarchy whether approached from either the right or the left. (see link above).

      Finally Reggie, I can do without the condescending comments like :“No that’s unkind, perhaps you’re thinking about the four quadrants of learning and reacting in which case you need to develop your ideas.”

      Don’t presume to guess “what I’m thinking” thanks very much particulary so you can then take a cheap shot at me.

      I’ve read a lot of your posts here Reggie and I am not impressed. Your thinking is generally a bit too fuzzy for my liking. Your last post is a good example. you waffle on but don’t really make a point.

      Good day to you sir.

    • Greg says:

      11:54pm | 12/04/11

      So in other words, small ‘l’ liberals are oblivious to obvious danger and extremely gullible when told that something is “good for them”, while conservatives are capable of common sense analysis and rational evaluation.

      Yes, that does sound about right.

    • Reggie says:

      12:03pm | 13/04/11

      No Greg, just to simplify it for you and Max, a conservative is reluctant to go to the BOG in case they lose something valuable.

      This also illustrates the origin of the term “anally retentive.”  Better? wink

    • Max Redlands says:

      01:13pm | 13/04/11

      @ Reggie “...a conservative is reluctant to go to the BOG in case they lose something valuable.This also illustrates the origin of the term “anally retentive.”

      Really??

      Is that the best you can do??

      Some mindless, factually incorrect, scatological drivel.

      That’s it for me Reg. There’s clearly not much point in trying to have a reasonable discussion with you.

      Ciao baby.

    • Reggie says:

      02:51pm | 13/04/11

      Actually you’re wrong again Max. My reply to you was not published and so I was forced to resort to over-simplification, which is more up your alley it seems.

    • stephen says:

      12:02am | 13/04/11

      This Government wants to reduce spending on Medical Research to about 300 million dollars, and I think that, if this sort of research is typical of what constitutes Science in the Medical Profession, then it is money well saved.

      Scientists want to know what constitutes the Mind, and they continue to look for the physical properties of this-and-that, expecting a reductive purpose to events which may explain, finally, our total being.
      (As if there is a connection, in some way, between the Quantum, and Space.)
      Good luck folks, but don’t turn our politics into something we haven’t earn’t. (Cause I’m sure as hell,  I’ve earnt mine.)

    • Luce says:

      12:44pm | 13/04/11

      I’d like to point out, stephen, that the research discussed in this article was done in the UK, not Australia.

      I’d also like to point out that Australian medical research, a lot of which was government funded, has produced the cervical cancer vaccine, a cure for peptic ulcers, spray on skin for burns victims, a way to avoid the majority of cot deaths, Victor Chang’s heart transplant program, and many other things.

      It is unconscionable that the government looks to save $400m by halving the budget for medical research (which saves lives), yet throw away BILLIONS on an unviable and unnecessary project such as the NBN, pink batts, or rebuilding school buildings for no purpose other then to score cheap political points. It makes me sick.

    • INGRID35Kirby says:

      02:36pm | 08/08/11

      I guess that to get the business loans from banks you ought to have a great reason. But, one time I have received a consolidation loan, because I wanted to buy a house.

 

Facebook Recommendations

Read all about it

Punch live

Up to the minute Twitter chatter

Anthony Sharwood

Dementor doing a good job for sweden #sbseurovision

Anthony Sharwood

Ukraine song pinches chord progression from The Verve's Bittersweet Symphony. Fo real #sbseurovision

Anthony Sharwood

RT @GerardDaffy: @antsharwood all the talk over there is the grannies will win.they entered to get a church built,feelgood story

Anthony Sharwood

These peole insult my grandmothjer, who was born in minsk, belarus #sbseurovision

Recent posts

The latest and greatest

Abbott’s crass logic: trash the Parliament in order save it

Abbott’s crass logic: trash the Parliament in order save it

An email was sent to almost every politician in Australia this week saying that someone should cut off…

Our special forces don’t always need special treatment

Our special forces don’t always need special treatment

We admire them, but we’re not entirely sure why. We allow them to operate in the shadows; we rarely…

A good holiday is about unrest, not rest

A good holiday is about unrest, not rest

Like a fat full-stop, it lay in my hand. A small orange – not exactly fresh, but purchased anyway…

Nosebleed Section

choice ringside rantings

From: They must pay for one’s bitter disappointments

Michael S says:

"A teacher at Geelong Grammar had criticised her for using words that were too long, which had left her confused and had made her doubt her ability to write essays. She became ''quite distressed'' when her English marks began to fall." I can sympathise. My scholastic mentors conveyed to me a causal relationship… [read more]

From: Welfare for breeders is a bonus for everyone

Change Up! says:

I have no problem paying my taxes. As a single, childless person on a very decent income, I can afford it and not have my life severely altered. Plus I understand that my taxes paying for things like schools, childcare and infrastructure is ultimately a good thing. A better community is better for me… [read more]

Gentle jabs to the ribs

They must pay for one’s bitter disappointments

They must pay for one’s bitter disappointments

A private school girl’s family is sueing her elite, extremely expensive private school for not… Read more

243 comments

Newsletter

Read all about it

Sign up to the free daily Punch newsletter