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Land of no hope and vainglory

Anthony Sharwood

by Anthony Sharwood

26 Nov 12:34pm

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Filed under: Ashes, Australia, Culture, England, Journalism

171 comments

Hello England. You’re that island (or portion thereof) adrift in the North Sea somewhere near, gee I dunno, Iceland or something right?

Booze and violence on the beach. Yet another priceless English contribution to Australian culture. Photo: Jeremy Piper

England, I’m told you used to be this terrifically confident place which belied its speck-on-the-map geographical status by civilising the world with such benevolent and enduring cultural endowments as the Westminster system, cricket and The Benny Hill Show.

But suddenly England, you’ve gone all insecure and snipey. England, I can’t tell you how genuinely shocked I was to read this piece by journalist Matthew Norman in The Telegraph the other day. Here’s the really surprising bit.

The peculiarly upsetting thing here is that winning at games - and I hope this doesn’t sound condescending - is all Australia has. For a country without a shred of history or a soupcon of culture, and geographically distended (with apologies to New Zealand) from the developed world, sport is the only route to international relevance. Their economy may have nimbly sidestepped the global downturn, and even be booming, but sporting success is all they care about. And with excellent reason. Without it, Australia is nothing.

England, the first thing I should tell you is that I have no idea what a soupcon is. Although after googling it, I note that it should have one of those funny little hook things underneath the c. My, you really do know so much.

Oh, and speaking of hooks, I strongly suspect that your piece is exactly that, and that Aussie-bashing is the bait. Now all you need is to reel in an outraged Aussie and fillet him or her like one of your scrummy delicious kippers.

Sorry old chap. Not biting.

Instead, I am going to sit here in my 25th floor office overlooking the pristine coves and beaches and waters of one of the world’s great natural wonders (Sydney Harbour), and the shimmering sails of one of the world’s cultural marvels (the Sydney Opera House). Munching on my fresh lunch sandwich with local seasonal produce which wasn’t wrapped in 10,000 layers of plastic prior to purchase, I will refrain completely from defending the virtues of my gorgeous, clean, optimistic young nation and its diverse, outward-looking inhabitants.

Neither will I direct my readers to the very first comment underneath your inexplicably insecure piece, where the commenter mentions pharmacologist Howard Florey’s role in the development of penicillin as just one Australian contribution to global culture beyond excellence in sport and the ability to enjoy really, really good beaches without leaving beer cans all over them.

Gosh, that last sentence was a bit long, wasn’t it. Anyone would think I’m getting all worked up. I’m not. I’m actually fabulously relaxed. Why wouldn’t I be? It’s Friday, the sun’s out and I live in a country where I won’t be set upon by thousands of toothless hoons for wearing the wrong colour to a football match. Well, as long as Collingwood aren’t playing.

The real question, England, is why are you so worked up? I always thought it was the little guy in any competitive relationship who was the insecure one. The one who slanders to get attention because he’s desperately unsure of his place in the world and his general reason for being.

That wouldn’t be you nowadays, would it England?

 

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171 comments

Show oldest | newest first

    • fairsfair says:

      01:23pm | 26/11/10

      With hindsight - they would have left the convicts in England and sent the law abiding citizens to paradise. I think they are just annoyed the they made a big mistake a couple of hundred years ago. It manifests itself in some strange strange ways… like saying we are silly.

      A soupcan of jealousy appears to goes a long long way wink

      Reply

    • Wallaby says:

      02:14pm | 26/11/10

      Priceless! Also, just to rub salt into the wounds the convicts would have been leaning over the railing shouting “Thank you and goodbye….By the way we’ll be back in a hundred years to beat you at cricket”

    • Steph says:

      02:58pm | 26/11/10

      I must admit, when living over there they did enjoy a spot of Aussie bashing. My responses were well practiced, but never-the-less effective. Stating that they stayed where they were and sent their worst to Bondi Beach all those years always ensured I won the arguement. At least they bought me a beer at the end of the debate.

    • rob says:

      06:01am | 27/11/10

      Having lived generous proportions of my life in both Australia and England I feel more qualified than most to comment on this and Matthew Norman is almost spot on. Without sport (and mining - he missed that bit) Australia has nothing. Just look at how worked up Australians get when they get reported in a news event when reported in a news sotry abroad - little man syndrome alert I am afraid to say. I also had to laugh at the picture in this report which made comment to voilence on the beach. Was it not Australian schoolies causing a raucus on the beach in Byron Bay this week? Further evidence of little man syndrome and so touching for a nation full of international super star wannabes ( who will never quite make it). Any country that has Julia Gillard as its leader should really know deep down that it has a serious personality defect…..for gods sake it cant even win the ashes! Was it 2-1 last time?

    • JH says:

      07:32am | 27/11/10

      I’m currently living in London, but about to move back to Oz. The English know that they screwed up by sending the convicts to paradise!  I use that line on them all the time. Leaves them speechless. I agree that Oz is somewhat devoid of culture (post-Aboriginal that is), but we certainly aren’t devoid of achievements outside the realm of sport. I suspect that journalist Matthew Norman is upset because at some time in his past, his true love fell for an Aussie bloke and he’s never forgiven our nation for it!

    • marcus says:

      09:16am | 27/11/10

      The ‘convicts’ sent to Australia were less hard core criminals than ordinary starving citizenry effectively shanghaied of the streets, it was a form of terrorism used by the British government against its own people. All the real criminals were kept in England because they were too hard to control for such an expedition, which explains the respective directions of the countries ever since, and soccer.

    • Tory Maguire

      Tory Maguire says:

      01:24pm | 26/11/10

      I love that he said: “I hope that this doesn’t sound condescending” before writing Australia doesn’t have “a soupcon of culture”!

      Reply

    • Peter says:

      08:29am | 27/11/10

      Steph, like most Poms, you’ve got the convict argument the wrong way around.  The reason we habitually beat you at sport is that you sent your toughest and most resourceful citizens here a couple of hundred years ago. At the other end of the spectrum, the only exercise the ruling classes had was sitting on horseback, watching dogs chase a fox around the estate.  The disparity has been exacerbated by your class-related inbreeding. And if you think that isn’t a bad thing, just look at your royal family - at least Princess Di tried to introduce a bit of genetic diversity by producing Harry (Hewitt). The upshot of all this is that we are genetically superior and that is l likely to continue because your gene pool is stagnant.  Any recent sporting successes are due to non-indigenous representatives, e.g. your present Empire XI cricket team, and the fact that visiting Aussie backpackers are the largest sperm donors for your IVF programme.
      P.S. Thanks for going back home.

    • Peter says:

      08:52am | 27/11/10

      Steph, after re-reading your post I owe you an apology - I thought you were writing from F-GB (Formerly-Great Britain).  Stupid of me because the clues were there: you DID return and your opponents were better losers that Aussies are.  Mind you, they have had plenty of practice, having lost half the World in addition to everything else.

    • Steve_of_Cornubia says:

      01:21pm | 27/11/10

      Yeah, almost as funny as a writer stating, “Sorry old chap. Not biting.”, then going on to write a schoolyard response full of bile (see Sharwood’s piece above).

      Priceless.

    • Shawn says:

      01:30pm | 26/11/10

      I know it has been asked before, but seriously, why is English food so bad? Even the stuff at restaurants is terrible. Youd think surrounding countries would have had some influence, but no, nothing. It like eating a wet newspaper, and everything tastes the same.

      Reply

    • Kika says:

      03:01pm | 26/11/10

      Not true. English food is great. The quality of the produce is way better than ours. Especially the chicken. Have you actually been there? I had great meals every where I went in England.

    • The Badger says:

      03:14pm | 26/11/10

      chicken tikka kika?
      that’s not English
      oh
      you mean the chickens full of hormones and antibiotics.
      yummy

    • Adrian says:

      03:22pm | 26/11/10

      They had to develop good chicken recipes because of mad cow disease!

    • Shawn says:

      03:38pm | 26/11/10

      I stay clear of KFC when I am oversease, you do what you want. The least you could do is be more adventurous with your eating when you are overseas. But then again, you have always been a bit of a fuddy duddy havent you.

    • Geezer Lagerlout says:

      03:50pm | 26/11/10

      We’ve go way more culture than you ozzies, and beh-ah food too. I just love cold pies filled with solidified fat. Spoh-id dick is the greatest dessert ever made, and chips wiv brown curry sauce makes the French the most jealous peopwe in the world, dunnit? Our flat, warm beer is also a gastronomic delight not to be overlooked. There’s nothing quite like drinking a newkie-brown, sitting in the gutter outside a an off-license before “it” kicks off wiv some random stranger. Why? coz, wew, It’s a laff… innit!

    • Graeme says:

      04:42pm | 26/11/10

      That’s really unfair.  They have learnt a lot from Australian cooking programs.  They love ‘em.  Almost as much as they love Australian soaps.  (Soap operas that is).

    • JH says:

      09:27am | 27/11/10

      Have you been to England in the last decade? The food is great. I’m about to move back to Oz after 4 years in London and I can honestly say that the food is one thing I will genuinely miss. The nightlife too, but that’s about it. The weather is horrendous, the people are rude and lazy, the bureaucracy is soul-destroying and there’s definitely a feeling that society is on the brink of collapse here. But the food is one thing I will certainly defend - probably the best in the world, due to the mix of cultures. The myth of bad English food is total nonsense. But the myth of bad English teeth is certainly true! Has to be seen to be believed!! Just like Austin Powers these folk!

    • biff says:

      03:50pm | 27/11/10

      English culture? Let’s not forget the very fine products of that glorious English culture: Johnny Rotten, Sid Vicious and Ronnie Biggs just to name a few.

    • Eno The Wonderdog says:

      01:34pm | 26/11/10

      Oh dear - someone full of booze on a Sydney beach - that’d never happen without a Pom to kick.. or would it??

      Reply

    • Adrian says:

      01:41pm | 26/11/10

      To be fair to both authors, the article was in the sport section and did directly reference the Ashes so it should be taken as no more than baiting and trash talking before a much anticipated and often hostile cricket series between two long time rivals.

      That being said, all English people are grumpy, jealous wankers that are bitter about all the things Anthony Sharwood mentioned as well as our generally positive outlook on life and excellent dental practices in comparison.

      Reply

    • Kika says:

      03:09pm | 26/11/10

      I couldn’t disagree more.  When I went to England I was stunned at how friendly and polite people are. Australians, like Sharon Osbourne famously said, are smug. It’s true, we are. But we have good reason to be because we live in such a wonderful country.  But we live very detached from each other in our McMansions and 6 foot concrete fences

    • I am a proud Aussie, but our beer is p^*s says:

      08:09pm | 26/11/10

      Good call Kika. When travelling in England, I really liked the Poms. The food was not too bad. Their beer walks all over Aussie grog. Even warm and flat (it sometimes is), it still tastes better than most Aussie beer, which is a mono-taste of cold fizz chock full of preservatives. In Ozzie beer, their is hardly any hops or malt. I reckon most home brewers would agree.

    • Glad to be back in AUS!!! says:

      08:11pm | 26/11/10

      Are you joking Kika??? From the sounds of your various comments you must have had a fleeting visit to the UK. I’m assuming you never lived there and experienced the various lengths to which the english go to avoid their neighbours…. Or come to think of it , experience the peak hour tube commute where the poms tend to be at their rudest. Think you get a seat on the tube in peak hour…... None of your polite/friendly englishmen would even get up for a heavily pregnant woman ! And in regards to your comments above re ‘Englands fantastic Produce’ the majority of it is not from the UK…... a quick visit to Sainsburys/Waitrose/Tescos and you’d be hard up finding anything that was actually produced in the UK. I could go on and on and on but to be honest dont want to re live 8 years of awful winters/ non existent summers/ rude, whingeing poms etc etc etc….

    • toothlees in Qld says:

      06:04am | 27/11/10

      I have to laugh at your comment about dental practices as to say that the Australian dental system is to teeth what Robert Mugabi is to human rights would be a realistic comparison.

    • Count Reg of Upper Gumtree. says:

      08:29am | 28/11/10

      IAPA, I agree, it’s to our lasting shame that even NZ beer is better than ours. But it still beats every Yank beer I’ve ever tried, which is no commendation I know.

    • MudCrab says:

      01:42pm | 26/11/10

      “Sorry old chap. Not biting.”

      No, way too busy typing out 500 words of column in reply instead… raspberry

      Sorry Mr Sharwood, but all that thrashing you think you are doing? That is cause you are now on the deck of the Telegraph’s fishing boat smile

      Reply

    • CrabPot says:

      01:53pm | 26/11/10

      You must be English. Here is a tip - “Mr Sharwood” has interwoven into this piece a couple of things called ‘sarcasm’ and ‘irony’. Look them up in your Oxford dictionary. Here in Australia we use it as a means of generating humour at another’s expense. Clearly we win at doing that too.

    • Steve_of_Cornubia says:

      09:39am | 28/11/10

      @Crabpot

      Using the words ‘Australia’ and ‘humour’ in the same sentence is the ultimate mixed metaphor, or perhaps a contradiction in terms. Australian ‘comedy’ is terrible; that’s why we import so much American and (even better) British comedy.

      Comedy never developed beyond that of a 14yo boy here. All Australian ‘comedy’ involves sniggering at sex, toilet habits or transvestites.

    • Kael says:

      07:19pm | 29/11/10

      @Steve: Now to be fair, while yes our comedy sucks, this is a direct result of the lax easy going nature of most Australian. To put it simply we don’t need anything more than crude jokes to enjoy ourselves.

    • Gazza says:

      01:47pm | 26/11/10

      Having been ‘here’ many years I can consider myself an observer of the two cultures and their reaction to each other. Perhaps what has happened is the two have ‘snipped’ each other so much the only thing left is the extremes. We made it a game off who can have a dig at the other the most (read worst) and then critise the other for that comment. Perhaps we have gone too far and that friendly bantering is now edging to a real dislike. It is a shame.

      I can honestly say, having been home and hearing ‘the parole came through then and your home then’ through to being called a ‘traitor’ and then when I am back in OZ I hear, ‘whatcha go back to that dump for, your an Aussie arn’t you’....

      And since were on the line of culture, the funiest I heard was ‘The only thing Aussie knows about culture is in yoghurt’ that was fun the first time, maybe the third time but now its a bad as ‘if you don’t like it bu**er off back if you whinging POM.’ that was fun but since I have been in Australia (in some cases) longer than those born here who have said it too me that is kinda terrible too.

      The fun has gone from the play.

      The humour is sadly lost now.

      Reply

    • Tripper Smurf says:

      04:08pm | 26/11/10

      Agreed!!!  Nothing better than taking the piss out of a pom, provided that you realise that you are going to get some it coming back to you!  Perhaps you are just playing with twits who cant seperate what is obviously humour from what is said seriously. 

      Of course its interesting that the orignal piece was from the sporting section.  Perhaps its a tacturn admission that the South African A (read English) cricket team will return to the misty isle without the ashes in hand.

    • chungo buck says:

      01:10am | 27/11/10

      awesome attitudes. i love the rivalry with the poms in cricket, i relish the ashes and the spirit of competition and the history. but if terms like sand-nigger, chink, dago, wog or the attitudes that go with them are racist, how is it different from the arguments of these sorts of articles and the thread of abuse that follows above and below? unintelligent, generalised, disrespectful attitudes toward people of other countries, even if those countries are white, western and 1st world (US, UK) is still as lame as other examples of racism. i see clearly here the evidence and expressions of intolerance and offensiveness.

    • Mr Correct says:

      06:07am | 27/11/10

      Tripper would you say the same about your Samon ( sorry Australian ) rugby League team? Still there is at least one difference - if the Englich coerce some foreigners into their team at least it means they can win! As for your Samon league team…..

    • Heather says:

      09:06am | 29/11/10

      Mr “Correct”, I think you mean “SamoAn” wink

      I have a wonderful boss who is what she calls a “Possie” (she and her hubby are Poms with Australian citizenship). They love it here, and we have exactly the sort of good exchanges during the cricket (amusing because she’s a cricket junkie and I actually don’t care either way, but the ribbing is fun). She’d be the first to disagree with the article referenced in this one.

    • Brimstone says:

      01:48pm | 26/11/10

      Your entire pathetic ‘culture’ is based on relaxation and nature. Your ‘proof’ of your superiority to England is that you can be lazy, eat, and watch the sunshine. Whoop de f—king do
      I’m an American expat in Aus, and I’m sickened by Australia’s lack of ambition and glory

      Reply

    • Adrian says:

      02:16pm | 26/11/10

      Awesome! This is what Australia needs to thrive! Someone from the planet’s most hated country telling us how to do things better!
      You know what guys, I think everything’s gonna be aaaallllllright.

      Being lazy, eating and watching the sunshine sounds like a great plan to me. And the fact that our GDP per capita is only marginally behind the USA, and quite a way ahead of the UK (http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/weo/2010/02/weodata/index.aspx)
      whilst still allowing us to sunbake and watch the cricket, suggests to me that we’ve got it sorted mate!

      But thanks for offering your opinion on our lack of ambition, and I’m sorry that your sickened by our lifestyle which I assume you don’t enjoy and are saving up your pennies to return home to the wonderful land of the US, where everyone strives to be the best damn person they can be, and laziness and eating are rarities and definitely frowned upon by most (http://www.peopleofwalmart.com).

    • Elphaba says:

      02:20pm | 26/11/10

      So move. Surely that’s more constructive than complaining?

      Great piece Anthony!  Love your last line. Here’s to paradise. grin

    • Sickening Australian says:

      02:24pm | 26/11/10

      Well, who’s keeping you here? If you’re so “sickened”?
      We lack ambition and glory? Two words: Jersey Shore.

    • Elphaba says:

      02:31pm | 26/11/10

      Actually Brimstone, you’re absolutely right.  As a country, we should be more ambitious.  Therefore, Australia as a country, should weigh in and stick its nose into every possible world situation, crisis or not, and take the action we think should happen, even though our opinion is not warranted, and at times, downright hyprocritical.

      Oh, wait…

    • Brimstone says:

      02:47pm | 26/11/10

      You could try relaxing height restrictions. Letting in more people. Not being afraid of tall buildings and technology. You could stop making a national virtue of laziness, relaxation, gambling, and booze. You could stop ‘taking the piss’ out of everybody so that nothing ever gets done or made.
      Or you could repeat the same tired anti-American rhetoric that any halfway intelligent American already agrees with. Your choice!

    • Wizard says:

      02:48pm | 26/11/10

      Pure Gold Adrian.
      Australia’s lack of ambition and glory makes him sick but the yanks still want our support in invading another country every so often….
      Piss off Yank - go home.

    • Brimstone says:

      02:57pm | 26/11/10

      At least we have freedom of speech. The government can take away what few rights you have at any time

      as for Jersey Shore, they do have an ambition: to be famous

    • GingerKitty says:

      02:58pm | 26/11/10

      Adrian - I love you!

    • Adrian says:

      03:01pm | 26/11/10

      Brimstone, it’s actually your tired anti-Australian rhetoric that made me comment.

      It’s a misconception that because we have such a relaxed outlook on life that we don’t actually get any work done. Most Australians don’t spend their weekdays surfing and sunbaking. In fact, many of us have jobs where we work hard to ensure we are contributing, and then on our days of we enjoy the best that our country has to offer. I would even go so far as to suggest that we are less lazy than other nations such as the UK and America, as we manage to acheive quite a lot in fields such as sport, science, literature, business, industry (lots of mines here you know) with just a fraction of the population.

      Of course many of us spend our workdays commenting on Punch articles but that’s neither here nor there.

      Personally I think I’m very ambitious and I’ve been told quite glorious too.

    • Sickening Australian says:

      03:05pm | 26/11/10

      Wanting to be famous isn’t ambition… C’mon Brimstone, you’re clutching at straws.

    • Tripper Smurf says:

      03:07pm | 26/11/10

      @ Brimstone

      Is this opposed to the ‘Manifest Destiny’ brainwashing exercise of the United States of America?  This led to the sorid subjugation of the Native Americans, the Filipinos, the Cubans and everywhere else that American armies reached before it became unfashionable and undiplomatic to destroy civilian populations during wartime, in the name of liberty of course!

      Or the selfish attitude shown by the vast majority of Americans that show how little regard they have of the 200+ other nations that are in this world.  I must admit I have only ever been asked if ‘Australia had electricty’ or been told that ‘Portugal is in South America’ by an American.

      Just because Australia doesnt seek to control the world through military might doesnt mean its unambitious.  In fact its pretty ambitious to think that we can influence the tyrant that America represents in many corners of this world.  Its pretty glorious that while the rest of the world struggles financially, Australia continues to go strong.

      By sheer numbers Australia has 21 million citizens/residents.  America has 310 million.  By simple numbers on any scale imaginable, this means that Australia is by far punching above its weight, reducing your ‘ambition and glory remarks’ to there being simply more Americans.

      Of course if you dont believe me about this, talk to a US military officer who has dealings with the Australian Army and ask them aout what the Australians achieve despite the much smaller numbers they deploy.  I’d bet it would be somewhat of an eye opener.

      Of course if you feel the USA is a far superior place to be in, with rampant crime, crippling debt thats soon to be larger than the US GDP (if not already), and ongoing numerous other social issues, by all means dont let the door hit you on the way out!

    • Elphaba says:

      03:14pm | 26/11/10

      Brimstone, tell me, is that implicity spelled out freedom of speech worth say, I don’t know… just unitl last year, being the only wealthy industrialised country that did not have adequate healthcare for all its citizens?

    • Tripper Smurf says:

      03:51pm | 26/11/10

      Brimstone….  are we forgetting the Patriot Act, and steady errosion of personal liberty of its citizens, that the US government has undertaken during the last 80+ years.

    • Brimstone says:

      04:44pm | 26/11/10

      Sickening Australian: wanting to be famous is ambition. the belief that you have some reason to be popular or simply the desire to show yourself to many people indicates a self-confidence and self-belief

      Elphaba: we still don’t have adequate health care

      Tripper Smurf: The government is eroding Americans rights to privacy, but they haven’t done anything as bad as, say, arrest festival directors for showing films. or propose to filter the Internet. our laws make that impossible

    • Lisa H. says:

      05:44pm | 26/11/10

      Surely a person can make a comment about what they perceive as the reality of our ‘culture’ without being abused and told to leave the country! Shame on you, Aussies! It seems we really are a parachial and unsophisticated lot!

    • Jecks says:

      06:32pm | 26/11/10

      Ahh , Another Amercian know it all ....  Why did you move here mate ?  Go back to your decaying country and take your negative attitude with you ..... Land of the Free !  LOL what a joke

    • Lazy Aussie says:

      12:59am | 27/11/10

      A national virtue of laziness? Australians work the longest hours per week of just about any of the developed nations and still find time and energy to punch far above our weight in sporting and cultural arenas. Next time you seek to tar an entire nation with such am unfounded brush, pick a target with less credibility and less means to fight back.

    • Elphaba - hittin' the beach today!! says:

      08:24am | 27/11/10

      @Brimstone, I was being kind.  Obama has made an effort to fix America’s abominable heath care system - something that’ll be repealed as soon as the Republicans wipe the floor with him at the next election - but you stiil haven’t answered mine, or anyone else’s question, so I’ll ask it again.

      Why are you here, if you don’t want to be?  Did you marry and Australian?  Employment contact obligations you can’t break?  If Australia is so repulsive, why haven’t you left?

    • notsurprised says:

      09:47am | 27/11/10

      Brimstone, you might need some thongs as you’ve just strolled into a large patch of bindis

    • Cam says:

      12:33pm | 27/11/10

      From the people who eat pastries for breakfast and invented the ‘supersize’..... from the land who bring you professional tiddly winks, cross burning and restaurants that serve Lion meat!

      I once met a Canadian in Europe who had his gear covered in Maple leaves. I noted that he must be very patriotic. No he said, he just didn’t want to people to think he was American ....

      Please enlighten us to WHY you are actually here in our shithole of a country. Surely there can’t be ANYTHING worth suffering as badly as you obviously do? How on earth do you lower yourself to walk amongst us lowly underachieving losers? I’m surprised that you, as an American, even knew where Austria, I mean Australia is! Must be disappointing that there aren’t kangaroos jumping down Pitt Street in Sydney!

      To use a colloquial Aussie term ... you’re a wanker mate! Oh, and that’s me expressing my right to free speech!

      Amazing how if you were to be describing say, Indian culture like that, you’d be branded a racist and a bigot ....

      Nothing shits me more than those who choose to live amongst us, but hold us in disdain. Make a choice. Find something positive about the society you live within or f%$# off back to somewhere perfect, like say, America ..... and that goes for any person who chooses to move here.

    • Bruce says:

      09:48pm | 28/11/10

      I’m an Aussie guy thats lived in England, and love both countries for different reasons. But as for an American involving themselves in other peoples business… Did I mention I am currently in Vietnam…

    • Kael says:

      07:31pm | 29/11/10

      It’s not so much that we’re lazy, it’s that we get what we need done right the first time (for the most part) which lets us use the rest of our time enjoying ourselves and doing nothing.
      As for ambition and glory, who needs these when we have just about everything we could want. To strive for much more would just be greedy and selfish.

    • Castro says:

      01:49pm | 26/11/10

      Good one, Ant.  I agree with your central thesis: Modern England is an irrelevance; hence the jealousy.  Are you getting this published in a paper over there?  It would be interesting to see the reaction.

      Like many Aussies, I lived in England for a period and I have a genuine affection for the place and the people.  In saying that, the place is now stuffed and should be shut down as a country until they can get some new management.

      The weather is famously bad, the English pub is dying a slow and painful death, and their political parties have even less soul than ours.  Mainly, it is the white middle-class guilt that is killing the place.  I hope they get over it and re-establish what was once a great country.

      Reply

    • iansand says:

      02:02pm | 26/11/10

      I can’t work out how we are “distended”, let alone geographically so.  I don’t feel at all bloated.

      There is nothing more satisfying than a smartarse committing a solecism.

      Reply

    • Macca says:

      02:03pm | 26/11/10

      Dammit Sharwood, I was hoping you would unleash. You’re relaxed, albeit slightly sarcastic, response has no place during such a vital contest such as the ashes. You’re only excuse is that it is Friday afternoon, Sunny and 27 degrees, a combination that could never occur in England

      Reply

    • DH says:

      02:07pm | 26/11/10

      Hook. Line. Sinker! You don’t sound particularly relaxed, Ant. But you should be. It was merely a bit of a jibe, which (and shouldn’t you already know this?) happens around Ashes time, mainly because we pasty-faced, dental reclusive English like to get a dig in early before you absolutely cane us. Also, look at the guy’s photo. Likely he has seen neither a sports field or, quite possibly, daylight in some time. Let him have his moment in the sun, poor chap.

      Reply

    • me my mo says:

      03:05pm | 26/11/10

      It’s ok for you English to make jibes, but when they’re so close the mark, that just hurts - especially when the ashes looks shakey.

    • TheRealDave says:

      02:09pm | 26/11/10

      Dear Mr Norman,

      Over 60 000 Australian troops died serving in your WW1. It was Generals like the Australian Commander John Monash that managed to crack the key to winning the war after 4 years of slaughter at the behest of incompetent British General-ship that saw an entire generation frittered away in stupidity. It was Australian troops that first cracked the Hindenburg line and broke the German Army on August 8th - the black day of the German Army. You’re Welcome.

      Australian Light Horse troops lead the way and threw the Turks out of the Holy Land to become the first Christian troops in the Holy Lands since the crusades to deliver large mandates to the British Empire - You’re welcome.

      Thousands more Australian airmen defended Britain during not only the Battle of Britain but in the subsequent air campaign that led to the defeat of Nazi Germany - You’re Welcome

      Australian soldiers held onto Tobruk for months despite the entire German Africa Korps led by the best German General of the war trying to kick them out, whilst the British retreated safely all the way back to near Cairo - You’re Welcome.

      An entire Australian Division was sacrificed to British incompetence in Singapore after covering you’re arses all the way down the Malayan Peninsula while you hid in Singapore before selling us out. You’re Welcome.

      While Australia was under threat of attack by the Japanese you lot decided that you’d borrow one of our very few divisions to kick the French out of Syria for you. You’re Welcome.

      Even when you finally let us have some of our troops back to defend our country you tried to steal them from us. You’re Welcome.

      Sport is not the only area we excel in. We also excel in saving your hides as well.

      You’re Welcome.

      Reply

    • St. Michael says:

      05:57pm | 26/11/10

      We also excel at volunteering troops for England’s wars against Dutch colonials and then allowing said troops to be scapegoats for British-ordered policies on the shooting of natives and prisoners.  Breaker Morant says you’re welcome, too.

      And the British didn’t *give* our troops back to us in World War 2.  Curtin basically gave Churchill the finger, ordered the Army home, and ignored the Walrus’s protests if I remember right.  This would be the same Churchill—then Lord of the Admiralty—who came up with the silly idea of the assault on Gallipoli.

    • PATRICK says:

      10:54pm | 26/11/10

      You conveniently ignore the fact that many of these were VOLUNTEERS.
      YOUR WELCOME.

    • Matthew Normam is a Jerk says:

      02:16pm | 26/11/10

      I’m Australian, and have lived here my whole life. I don’t give a toss about sport. Suck on that, Matthew, if that’s even your real name…

      Reply

    • Brimstone says:

      02:16pm | 26/11/10

      Define ‘bad’. I went outside to get lunch today and was assaulted by sunlight so strong I had to take cover in the shade, and hide my eyes. Growing up in America I idolized English literature, comedy, actors, and science fiction. As for Australians, I idolized Nick Cave.
      Who now lives in England
      I haven’t even been to England and I know I’d prefer it to Australia

      Reply

    • Cave who's still here says:

      02:38pm | 26/11/10

      You’re a shit stirrer.
      You were assaulted by sunlight? That’s hilarious. Poor honey.
      Stop being a sooky sooky la la and and go home so you’re not stealing any of our horrible sun shine.

    • Brimstone says:

      02:45pm | 26/11/10

      I’m just saying that you shouldn’t assume everyone has the same definition of ‘bad weather’ as Australians.
      And gotta love the ‘harden the fuck up’ attitude. How’s that incredibly high rate of teen suicide working out for you?

    • iansand says:

      02:50pm | 26/11/10

      Brimstone - A tip.  Next time you leave home in the US head east.  You seem to have got a little confused last time.

    • Cave who's still here says:

      02:57pm | 26/11/10

      You must be a pretty sad case to think that when the sun is shining and the ocean is sparkling it’s a ‘bad weather’.
      And in response to your teen suicide comment, that is so insensitive of you. Do you really think that mentioning such a devistating fact will change our opinion of our own country?
      You’ve obviously not had family or a friend commit suicide. Please stop now, you’re embarrassing yourself.

    • Syl says:

      03:11pm | 26/11/10

      So why are you here?  If you hate this country so much, why stay?

      Or are you just another American who puts everything down that isn’t like the homeland?  (a generalization I know, but one you seem to fit amazingly well).

    • Tripper Smurf says:

      03:56pm | 26/11/10

      @Brimstone.

      Yes our suicide rates are marginally higher than that in America, but on the flipside gun crime is more than 50 times more prevalant in America than Australia and the homocide rate in America is the worst in the industrialised western world.

      With this in mind, which country has metal detectors in schools because its required?

      From these statsitics one might say that if an Australia cant handle it any more the will just off themselves, where as an American goes to a public place and takes a few others down with him.  I know who I’d rather have for a neighbour

    • Al from Sydney says:

      04:05pm | 26/11/10

      Have you been castrated mate ?
      you need to grow a pair and HARDEN THE ....

    • Brimstone says:

      04:46pm | 26/11/10

      “And in response to your teen suicide comment, that is so insensitive of you. Do you really think that mentioning such a devistating fact will change our opinion of our own country?”

      er, the teen suicide comment followed on from people telling me not to be such a sook. the whole ‘harden the fuck up’ attitude is one I believe contributes to the high rate of suicide by discouraging people from sharing their feelings and getting help

      that said, Australia does have some fine mental health facilities

    • Brimstone says:

      04:47pm | 26/11/10

      “You must be a pretty sad case to think that when the sun is shining and the ocean is sparkling it’s a ‘bad weather’.”

      or I prefer the more civilized comforts of cold air, a warm fire, and a good book

    • Grambo says:

      04:55pm | 26/11/10

      Brimstone perhaps you should take your cap down to Wynyard Station.  I’m sure a lot of people would love to help you out.

      The sun worries you?  I so understand.  Have you considered carrying an umbrella around with you.  A lot of the girls do.

    • Brimstone says:

      05:27pm | 26/11/10

      Al from Sydney: your compassionate response proves all my points. you equate a painfully literal manliness with virtue, and attack anyone who doesn’t live up to that. is there any wonder that may alienate many people?

    • Dan says:

      06:12pm | 26/11/10

      @Brimstone - Why? Why? Why are you living in Australia if you dislike it so much? I don’t understand why anyone with the legal right to live in two countries would choose to live in the one they don’t like.

    • Reg says:

      10:09am | 28/11/10

      Hey Brimstone, I’ve been assaulted by a Washington winter and by the ice under that long-suffering grass. And every parked car running in the frozen morning air as the windscreen ice melts. Reminds me of England to. Though I must admit the traffic was most courteous to an old guy wandering on the freeway, probably for fear of finishing up in court.

      Court, the first resort rather than the last as in Australia.

      By the way, it is my impression that every detail of law is carefully delineated in the US, so that the slightest departure can lead to more court proceedings.  In fact it’s downright totalitarian. smile This is not good in my opinion, and certainly “un-Australian” (finger down throat). I suppose you think this is why Australians are so slack.

    • Tripper Smurf says:

      02:33pm | 26/11/10

      That Matthew Norman fella would of been the type to derride people for ‘Going Colonial’ in yesteryear.  Parachoial, I’m-mighter-than-thou approach that shows the author is really just sour that his ancestors didnt emigrate themselves when they had the chance.

      Reply

    • Kika says:

      03:05pm | 26/11/10

      I love the UK. It’s fantastic. It has everything. Your in the middle of the world there and it’s great. Everything is happening. You’ve got culture, art, class, history, roots,  beauty and then you’ve got the music scene, the country, the food.

      But, I still call Australia home. We are so lucky. After coming back from the UK (especially to Queensland) you realise how beautiful Australia is and how lucky we are to get so much sunshine. Life is slow here and we seem to always want to make a big deal about stuff. Who cares. Just be proud we live all the way over here on this sleepy little forgotten corner or the world!

      Reply

    • Richele says:

      03:16pm | 26/11/10

      I agree. I enjoy both. We don’t need to pick a side.

    • Standard Suburban Australian says:

      08:08pm | 28/11/10

      @Kika - Yours is a reasoned and knowledgable perspective ....  and not welcome here, clear off this is Austalia oi oi oi

    • Sammy J says:

      03:29pm | 26/11/10

      I genuinely feel sorry for England. A once mighty nation has lost its unique cultural identity with unmitigated non-European and Muslim immigration. Go easy on Ol’ Blighty- she has been changed forever and will be unrecognisable in as little as 20 years time.

      Reply

    • Graeme says:

      05:00pm | 26/11/10

      At least they’ve got their xenophobia to unite them.

    • Gerard says:

      09:04pm | 26/11/10

      “Lost its cultural identity”? “Unrecognisable in 20 years’ time”?

      Have you forgotten what Australia was like in 1990? I remember a country that actually stood for something. That wasn’t ruled by political correctness. That believed in the idea of personal responsibilty and autonomy. That allowed its citizens to exercise their own judgement.

      Unrecognisable now.

    • MarK says:

      03:31pm | 26/11/10

      Can we bash the Irish next week.

      Then the French.

      No one likes the French.

      It is really a shame France is full of them. Would be a nice country except for that.

      Reply

    • iansand says:

      03:38pm | 26/11/10

      French are tomorrow night.  Not sure when we play the Irish.

    • TheRealDave says:

      03:56pm | 26/11/10

      The good news is that France is set to become an Islamic Caliphate soon. Still undecided whether that would be a bonus or not for France…..

    • MarK says:

      04:02pm | 26/11/10

      Haven’t we played them…or was that just Munster?

    • Joepinapplz says:

      03:50pm | 26/11/10

      Brimstone, I know your just shit stirring. I just returned from New York and Vegas. I love America and most Americans are beautiful friendly people, like Aussies. If you don’t like Australia, why don’t you go home? Your comments portrait you as an ill-educated fool. Its people like you that give Americans a bad name!

      Reply

    • Brimstone says:

      04:52pm | 26/11/10

      I’m merely pointing out ways your country can be improved. I assumed when I came here that Australia was merely a rough draft - that you’d be well on your way to filling up the rest of the country and embracing technology and growth. I have found that is not the case, and you remain content to be ‘chilled out’ beachgoers

    • Ally says:

      04:08pm | 28/11/10

      The thing is Brimstone, the laid back beach-going lifestyle is part of our culture and identity as a nation. You may see that as a problem, as many Americans would, but we don’t.

      We have one of the highest standards of living in the world and we are quite happy with the way that we live, so we don’t feel the need to develop into a nation to rival the United States. Australia just does not have the “greed is good” mentality that you guys have. 

      As for filling up the country, some people would agree with you on that point, but I think the vast majority are quite happy with our small population and open space. It, again, is part of who we are. Sydney is not Tokyo or New York. In reference to high rises, speak to London about height restrictions. They’re doing fine without the high rises.

      If you feel that is problem, then that is an issue you will have to deal with if you are to continue living here. Sorry!

    • Heather says:

      09:36am | 29/11/10

      Also, Brimstone, in many jurisdictions height restrictions have a good reason for them: many Australian cities are built on (albeit often currently inactive) fault lines. It’s called “forethought”. Also, since when is bigger, necessarily, better? Taller, faster, higher…. geebus. At some point it’s got to give. Again, foresight is always more effective, and more efficient, than hindsight.

      See, this is one of the criticisms many people have of the United States. Unfortunately, many (not all) Americans think the world should be “just like the US” and any deviation from the American “norm” is considered anti-technological or, in your words, “lazy.” See, the thing is, Australia, while she does have some inferiority complexes still, doesn’t feel the need to be outwardly showing off (except, actually, in sport, but that’s probably because it’s difficult to hide when you win a lot, I guess). We work hard, we just don’t feel the need to broadcast it all the time. We just get on with it, and then when we’re done, we down tools and enjoy what we’ve got.

      Australians are not good at blowing their own horns. We underplay our own achievements (to the point where other countries nick them, like, say, the first film industry). This was actually highlighted very well when my Uni Prof (who is Canadian) asked us to do a “self evaluation” towards our results a few years back. One and all, he said, heavily underestimated ourselves. My (American) editor friend, who lives in Melbourne (and, btw, loves it here so much he’d never go home—he’s originally from NYC), and works for an American publisher, is often flabbergasted at how uncomfortable Australians are at promoting ourselves and our books—and he describes himself as “shy”! As he says, it’s not laziness, it’s simply that we don’t have the—remember, these are his words, not mine—“overwhelming arrogance of my own country. Australians need bigger egos. I love you guys.”

      If this frustrates you, as an American, perhaps you need to try some understanding. After all, an Australian in the US would be expected to toe the line there. You live here, so maybe you need to stop trying to make Australia America and just relax and enjoy what positives we have instead of wishing we were all just like you.

    • Kael says:

      08:06pm | 29/11/10

      @Brimstone:
      “I’m merely pointing out ways your country can be improved.”
      Really? In that case I’ll apologize and as a sign of thanks I’ll return the favour.
      Before I start, does anyone know if these comments have a word limit?... Actually on second thoughts I’ll leave it be, I intend to have time to sleep tonight.

    • Ben Haslem says:

      03:59pm | 26/11/10

      Sharwood could you please refer to a single example where you or anyone has been “set upon by thousands of toothless hoons for wearing the wrong colour to a football match. Well, as long as Collingwood aren’t playing.”
      No. I doubt you’ve even been to a football match involving Collingwood. Stop stereotyping Pies supporters you tofu-munching inner-city, former Honi-editing, toss pot!

      Reply

    • Adrian says:

      05:06pm | 26/11/10

      Ben, the same supporters that bashed Nathan Jones’ dad? Pies supporters are feral and should all be locked in some sort of display where we can laugh at them and poke them with sticks.

    • Steph says:

      04:11pm | 26/11/10

      How can he say we don’t have a shred of history? I think that is completely insulting to Indigenous Australians…. but then again, it was the Brits that obliterated Indigenous culture and history

      Reply

    • Mato says:

      04:54pm | 26/11/10

      Yeh, but we continue it… but we said sorry… That makes it all better.

    • Tripper Smurf says:

      05:37pm | 26/11/10

      Agreed!  Not to mention the 232 years since the first British ship sailed up the coast has had a few things happen in it as well.

    • iansand says:

      05:45pm | 26/11/10

      The Aborigines do not have a history.  They have a presence, and have had for quite some time, but they do not have records (or even, it seems, traditions) relating to specific events that occurred during that occupation.

      And even we blow ins do not have much of a history.  When seminal moments are things like a rebellion over the rum monopoly or a short riot over mining rights you know you are grabbing at straws.

    • Prunes & Cream says:

      04:30pm | 26/11/10

      Real Dave’, what’s a ‘Caliphate’ ?  Is it a hate of ‘Calip’s ?

      Reply

    • nosthow says:

      04:32pm | 26/11/10

      Any country that gave us transportation, the Royal Family and a reputation for not washing gets the thumbs down from me ! England strikes me as a country that needs a bloody good flush out of dills that feed off the public purse for absolutely no value at all. Lets start with Phil the Greek, Lizzy Windsors useless hubby huh ?

      Reply

    • Rob says:

      04:45pm | 26/11/10

      Go on then, I’ll weigh into this debate as well. I’m English and mightily proud of it. I’m proud of the background that made up the English culture, the fighting spirit that has gotten us where we are now and I’m even proud of our Royal Family.
      I’m also in Australia. Why am I here you may ask? Well, the same reason a lot of us English are in Australia. Because the place is so good. It’s simple.
      Like the rest of the migrated population, I recognised Australia for the wonderful place it is to live. But I can also see the exact points Mr Norman raised in his article. Ask an Australian what its history is and I’m sure they can pull out some reference to having a role in developing a drug.  Or that you played a role in some of the vilest wars this planet has seen.
      Yep sure, you did. No arguments. But does Australia have a history? A couple of hundred years of it maybe. And culture? What culture does Australia have? Of course it’s easy to throw in a comment under a picture like “Booze and violence on the beach. Yet another priceless English contribution to Australian culture”. Blame the English for the bad bits of the culture. Go on, it’s easy. I’m sure the English are to blame for the hole in the ozone layer too.
      But look at that culture and examine it. It’s a racist redneck bully boy culture, that is heavily reliant on sport and it’s sporting achievements. It’s such a strange culture, that the biggest part of history you have (the indigenous people) aren’t even recognised properly as part of the culture. But no doubt, it’s the English’s fault for that too.
      “Sorry old chap. Not biting.”
      “The real question, England, is why are you so worked up?”
      Well it’s a sporting article isn’t it? That’s what the build up to all sporting contests are about. A Nation’s press doing their chest beating and pointing out perceived humorous faults of the other Nations involved.
      I also think you may have missed the real point of the article. Did you read it all? Or were you too busy looking out of the window of your office on the “25th floor office overlooking the pristine coves and beaches and waters of one of the world’s great natural wonders (Sydney Harbour), and the shimmering sails of one of the world’s cultural marvels (the Sydney Opera House).” How many of you other commenters on here have read the article in the Telegraph? Not many I bet. Click on it and have a read. Can you find the last sentence? Well give that one a read.
      “When English voices like Serena Botham’s are prematurely raised in triumph, it is time to start preparing to ride the sucker punch.”
      By the way, did you realise your precious Sydney Opera House was designed by a Dane and built by a British owned company? So much for your Australian cultural marvel!

      Reply

    • Bemused says:

      12:00am | 27/11/10

      Thomas Kenneally, Patrick White, Peter Carey, Bret Whitely, Hans Heysen, Albert Namatjira, Sidney Nolan, David Williamson, Dame Nellie Melba, Dame Joan Sutherland, Peter Singer, Geoffrey Robertson, Robert Helpmann, William Bragg (Jnr), Victor Chang, Graeme Clark, Peter Doherty, Percy Grainger, Lawrence Hargreaves…...Do I need to go on??? No culture and no history! Don’t make me laugh.
      p.s If you need help with any of these names please let me know.

    • iansand says:

      08:14pm | 27/11/10

      Too right.  We don’t have a history.  No epic struggles against tyranny.  We never had tyrants. No invasions (incoming or outgoing). No revolutions.  No dictatorships.  No civil wars.  Most of our military history is turning up to help people in unpleasant circumstances somewhere else. 

      We have never lived in interesting times.  WoooHooo.  History is largely unpleasant for the people living through it.

    • macca-d says:

      04:52pm | 26/11/10

      Australians all let us REJOICE.
      For we are YOUNG AND FREE
      We’ve gold and soil and WEALTH for toil.
      Our home is GIRT by sea.
      Our land abounds in NATURES GIFTS
      Of BEAUTY RICH and RARE….

      oh what the hell….

      OZZIE OZZIE OZZIE!

      Reply

    • Liam says:

      05:01pm | 26/11/10

      I love the England haters. You can keep the sport and we’ll keep inventing irrelevant stuff like the very internet you use right now.

      If you want to find out how awesome Australia I suggest you speak to any non-white person who has ever come here for while from OS. You might learn something.

      The general consensus is Australia is a lovely country largely populated by people so racist they don’t even have the politeness to hide it.

      It amuses me the way Aussies always point to immigration as England’s failing. England is now doing what it always has done and always will do = Evolve. Every 50 years it goes through a painful evolution and comes out even better, more innovative, more creative and more relevant.

      London: Builds an underwater train tunnel from England to France
      Sydney: Can’t even organise a proper bus service

      Forget England you aren’t on that level of game yet.

      WTF has Australia ever given to the global community apart from Kylie.

      I’ll take you guys seriously when you are mature enough to deal with gay marriage, we can work up from their to your issues with race, immigration and general aversion to change of any kind.

      Australia is finished, it’s merely a sunny third rate supplier to India and China. Who both who think Australians are idiots. Not a great position to be in with the new big brown boys in town….it’s OK you can retire to your McMansion, if you have a spare $1.4mill!!!...You guys are heading for a rude awakening.

      Reply

    • RajahPemogan says:

      09:58am | 04/01/11

      Liam, Has anybody ever discussed with you the difference between racism and nationalism?

    • Dave-o says:

      05:12pm | 26/11/10

      I love the fact England thinks all history and culture in Australia began when Captain Cook arrived.

      You can take the racism out of the constitution but you cant take the racism out of the pom.

      Reply

    • rob says:

      11:33pm | 26/11/10

      An Aussie accusing poms of racism?

      Which country’s cricket fans were chanting “i’d rather be a paki than a pom” yesterday?

    • Mayday says:

      12:20pm | 27/11/10

      Learn some history and then you may have an understanding of what Captain Cook saw when he arrived and why the English decided on Australia as a penal colony.

      At the time the French Revolution was well under way, Catherine the Great ruled Russia bringing literature, art and science to the masses and the Americans had already sat through their first Tea Party.

      On that basis Australia was deemed to be Terra Nullius, that is ‘land belonging to no one’  because there was no obvious signs of a civilisation as defined at that time.

      Recently my son and a few friends returned from visiting the UK and Europe and in comparison things havn’t changed that much.

      Australia has a small population and our culture is still developing its own flavour and direction, we are just a village in the global community and at times we do appear smug.

      Sport is a small part of any culture and we need to develop other areas such as the arts, science and research before we can really grow up.

    • nina says:

      01:20pm | 27/11/10

      “i’d rather be a paki than a pom”.... er isn’t that the same thing?

    • Phil S says:

      05:23pm | 26/11/10

      Roll on the republic!

      Reply

    • Billy says:

      09:31am | 27/11/10

      Phil S - Bugger the Republic!  Think of the cost to make this place a Republic.  There are enough ways to waste money - this is one of em.

    • Do Yourself a Favour says:

      05:28pm | 26/11/10

      I still remember a marvelous response to a UK newspaper survey on the best thing about living in England - someone said France.

      Reply

    • hot tub political machine says:

      09:02pm | 26/11/10

      To put it in their accent:

      I fink e’s on the windup yeh?

      Reply

    • jason says:

      10:12pm | 26/11/10

      ou ou ou aussie aussie aussie who is going to win the cricket ,who won the commonwealth games ,who beats you at everything that counts ,which of course is sport, and if you don’t like sport i have to ask what kind of person are you ps darts isn’t a sport

      Reply

    • Woza says:

      11:11pm | 26/11/10

      What I’ve never been able to work out is that while the world universally agrees that the UK is a miserable place it seems that every Australian under the age of 35 thinks that they HAVE to spend 2 years of their life there, particularly those that are better educated.

      Personally I couldn’t think of anything worse.

      Reply

    • Rob says:

      12:03am | 27/11/10

      Reminds me of my late old man (god rest his soul)
      Used to be like the original Alf Garnett - always whinging about bloody everything, and especially Australia. Every time he did this when I was a kid I used to ask him :why did you move here?”...never an answer..
      It wasn’t until I visited England in my early twenties that I understood why,.,

      Reply

    • matt says:

      04:33am | 27/11/10

      sorry Australia, no one can hear you, you are too far away

      Reply

    • Ex-Australian in USA says:

      04:46am | 27/11/10

      I suppose that if they are busy bashing the English, then Australians are leaving every other nationality alone, for the moment. There behavior is amazing coming from a country that had a White Australia Policy and turned famous people of color away, yet today the same hypocrites accuse anyone who criticize Obama (for any reason) or Aboriginal crime gangs, of racism.

      Reply

    • Sahra says:

      10:32am | 28/11/10

      You obviously don’t realise

    • Steve says:

      09:10am | 27/11/10

      When most poms think of Australia, they see images of dangerous reptiles or, possibly, one of the Minogue sisters.

      You really are that irrelevant, i’m afraid.

      I guess it’s hard to take a supposedly mature and independent country seriously when its flag looks like a hand-me-down from the Her Majesty’s Coast Guard.

      Reply

    • End of Empire says:

      11:05am | 27/11/10

      It amuses me that when Poms like Matthew Norman want to denigrate Australia, they always mention History and Culture.  History IS important to the English - to remind them how far they have fallen, but I would have thought that was nothing to boast about.  As for Culture, my experience of the average Pom is that the variety most are capable of appreciating is better spelt with a capital “K”.

    • OchreBunyip says:

      11:13am | 27/11/10

      I was going to write a pithy and lengthy rebuttal to the poms but sod it I’m off to the beach.

      Reply

    • Kael says:

      08:25pm | 29/11/10

      Mate, I’m gonna put a hat on merely so i can take it off to you. That is the single bast response I’ve read so far.

    • Anthony Sharwood

      Anthony Sharwood says:

      08:45pm | 29/11/10

      agreed, agreed and agreed

    • Ryan says:

      11:44am | 27/11/10

      Well at least Australia is only irrelevant without its beaches, surf lifesaving, and its sport, England and its pathetic excuse of an inbred royal family are irrelevant just as they are.
      Never forget how conniving and nasty these poms can be, just look at how they repayed the Rhodesians who fought with their lives to save those stinking poms from the Germans, if only they had known how these low life poms were going to turn on their children. Low class scum, nothing more, nothing less.

      Reply

    • JAZ says:

      12:45pm | 27/11/10

      I LIVED IN THE UK FOR 2 YEARS AND LOVED IT ..LONDON IS FANTASTIC AND MOST OF THE PEOPLE ARE FANTASTIC. BUT… THE BRITS ARE VERY JEALOUS OF US OZZY’S AND THATS A FACT. FOR THE BRITS TO BE PUTTING US DOWN IN SUCH A WAY I FIND THAT A TERM OF ENDEARMENT REALLY BECAUSE THATS HOW THE BRITS BEHAVE ..VERY INSECURE PEOPLE. THEY ONCE WERE THE WORLDS SUPER POWER BUT NOW-A-DAYS HAVE NOTHING TO BE PROUD OF EXCEPT A COUNTRY OVER RUN BY IMMIGRANTS AND A FAILING ECONOMY. BUT ALSO THESE COMMENTS COMING FROM A COUNTRY THAT IS SO MASSIVELY UNDEREDUCATED IT BEGS BELIEF HOW THEY COULD POSSIBLY LOOK AT ANY PROSPOROUS FUTURE ECONOMY , I DO FIND ARTICLES LIKE THIS VERY AMUSING BECAUSE GIVEN THE CHANCE THIS PEANUT MATTHEW NORTON WOULD JUMP AT THE CHANCE TO LIVE HERE I’M SURE OF THAT ..

      Reply

    • Mat says:

      02:55pm | 27/11/10

      I lived in Sydney for 3 years, and unfortunately Australia is not able to compete with England/London on a cultural level, or in terms of infrastructure (Aus doesn’t compare with any European nation in that respect I’m afraid), you simply don’t have the mass of population, or the history. However, you are blessed with a great climate, and people are generally friendly and positive, and I liked the Aussie attitude towards people becoming citizens (provided they are white?).

      Let’s be honest, the Australians can’t resist a pop at the UK, whilst in general the UK doesn’t give a second thought to Australia except as a place with the aforementioned climate and beaches. The moment we, or anyone else, criticise you however, you freak out. I noticed this when I lived in Sydney and I think you’d be hard pressed to deny it.

      Chill out, English people are extremely diverse, generally warm and friendly and humorous and brave people, not so dissimilar to the Australians, albeit with a different racial mix. Sport, and let’s face it you don’t really play our national game (football), is not that important, so whoever mentioned the war and all that crazy stuff should relax and get a sense of perspective - the English suffered in war like you would not believe, millions died - please have some respect.

      I hope to revisit Sydney at some point and I’m sure I’ll get a warm welcome, just like all the Australians who work in my London office and don’t want to go home to Aus…

      Reply

    • Lee Gale says:

      05:05pm | 27/11/10

      Who gives an f about culture, great lifestyle is the key. As a pom living in Oz I would say this, the UK is about the past, Oz is all about the future.
      At the ashes yesterday (hat and suncream on) we had to laugh at the Geordies we met who said it was 4 inch of snow in Newcastle. Yes they can count Shakespeare amongst their number (and I can download the entire works for free from the internet), but I still had to feel sorry for them.

      Reply

    • stephen says:

      09:26pm | 28/11/10

      Yeah well yer still got Milton, Shelley and Lucien Freud, and about a hundred top-flight others.
      Game ain’t over yet, bro’.

    • Rick says:

      05:05pm | 27/11/10

      To the tune of land Of Hope and Glory:

      There used to be an England
      Of which we could be proud
      But that was in the yesteryear
      In days now very much gone

      Their relevance diminished
      In sport, In world affairs
      In fact in every field of which
      Australia leads the way

      A poor old Pom defeated
      Is not a pleasant sight
      But we have gotten used to it
      Because that is the norm

      Reply

    • Markjay says:

      11:45pm | 27/11/10

      Hey Anthony Sharwood, this is precisely why brits and people from other countries don’t like you guys. You people always slag off other nations, and wouldn’t hear a negative word heaven forbid against your own country - Australia. I have been here six months and I can tell you Australia is far from perfect. Obiously most aussies live in a world of their own. Australia is far from perfect so stop slaggin other countries off.

      Reply

    • Markjay says:

      11:54pm | 27/11/10

      Hi LIAM WELL SAID MATE!
      COULDN’T HAVE SAID IT BETTER MYSELF. Aussies are definitely full of themselves when I say aussies I mean everybody who lives in Oz including their jingoistic media. They really think Oz is the best thing since sliced bread. It doesn’t help when their sporting teams are continually successful. Like in Cricket, SOccer or Rugby or tennis or Golf. It gives them justification to continue to be the gobshites that they really are. Agree with you LIAM 100 percent!

      Reply

    • proud paddy/ozzie says:

      01:36am | 28/11/10

      why is everyone so jealous of ozzie? I am a male of irish decent, having lived in oz for 27 years now. i have an ozzie passport and call myself australian. nothing annoys me more than people that live here in this country and don’t appreciate it! i have been on the wrong end of the stick sometimes because all these jealous foreigners just like to point at ozzie. I am a proud ozzie now and i will vouch for any one of them! i tell you what…. any englishman who says their country is ‘bootiful’ is lyin out their back side! i have never seen so many scummy young men looking to fight random strangers for no reason other than to prove how tough they were!!!! it was outrageous! i feel safe in australia, and more to the point of the debate, how can you say ozzie has no culture when sport is such a major global cultural event… has everyone forgotten the olympics? ozzie is pretty impressive if you ask me for such a small nation. and to be honest, i think enlgish people are just plain jealous. they see all the great soaps, all the rugged movie stars, and all the trophies they have lofted before their english crowds and have developed some hatred in return…. seriously….. get a grip! nothing more needs to be said, and as for any so called ex-pat who stays in this country, as a born foreigner i get very peeved when i hear you say you hate ozzie…. this country gave me a job, a wife, 5 kids, a dog and a bloody good ute and i am pretty happy with that. so go choke on your ‘jealousy sandwich’ and get a touch of reality…. ozzie is magnificent, and for england to even remotely mimic it would lead them in the right direction. btw, last time i checked, all of englands sports academies and swim coaches etc are ozzie…. sounds like someones trying to play a little catch up? whats that, english institute of sport modelled of ozzie, olympic trainers 45% ozzie, swim coaches 100% us and ozzie. seriously…. without ozzie england would be nothing at anything, hell you may even speak german if it wasnt for them in the desert!!!!! for anyone to argue otherwise doesnt know the facts. proud paddy signin out

      Reply

    • Spike says:

      07:46am | 28/11/10

      If the food is so bad in the UK then I wonder why guys like Jamie Oliver, the foul mouthed Gordon Ramsey and many others are asked to come over here to teach the Aussies about good food? Must admit though that there are problems with so many immigrants. Went to the UK a couple of years ago. The only way I could see my rellies at Heathrow was because they were the only white people there!!

      Reply

    • John says:

      07:47am | 28/11/10

      Anthony, the article by Matthew Norman in the Telegraph, represents the views of Matthew Norman, not England. So you need to redo your article as a piece on this guy. I dont know him, havent heard of him but if you want to do some real journalism, go find out who he is and why he has these views of Australia. They do not represent those of the English People.

      Reply

    • Reg says:

      08:24am | 28/11/10

      Try as we might to think only of the good of England, it is this regular reminder by the depleted ranks of its journalistic talent that frustrates our efforts, reminding us that it was cumulative bastardy that made England what she is today.

      For centuries people have been fleeing its sodden shores in droves. The Scottish to Canada and the Irish, Welsh and the downtrodden to anywhere, with the vacuum filled by those remote third world victims of the glorious Empire. Yes the same glorious Empire whose cotton-mills fertilized the minds of Marx and Engels to generate the Communist Party and drag the world into turmoil and misery.

      Certainly Australia and Australians have different values from other places, and we have every reason to hope it will remain so as we look at the examples offered by the Americans. There the Protestant “work-ethic” competes with the Catholic sense of guilt, the Jewish perpetual depression and the Italian determination to remain on the top of the dung hill even if it kills them ......

      (Let us remember that it is the “Protestant work ethic,” the one fostered by the English and the Deep South, that says in effect, that if you enjoy your work then you’re in the wrong job. One must suffer for his daily-bread.)
      I think we can reject that bit of tom-foolery even though the faux-liberals would argue the point. 

      .....And now the emigre Russians aspire to breathe life into yet another car-wreck for the 10% unemployed of the country that the US Republican Party, (like Stalin with the Ukrainians,) seeks to starve into submission, with a side serve of defective health cover.

      Certainly with our brief history and propensity to disrespect authority, we tend not to see our failures as anything serious, yet live in hope that the low values demonstrated to us by the rest of the world, will recede and leave a sparkling residue of wisdom and prosperity devoid of the negativity that Fleet Street daily inculcates into those who were left behind.  Yes I agree, Australian peasantry has higher values to seek but they are unlikely to be those of England.

      Finally, look at poor Darwin, he did so NOT want to be interred in Westminster Abbey but he had to be left hanging about to feed the illusion of grandeur that the English grapple so shamefully to preserve. It’s interesting that Churchill chose something different for his independent self.

      Reply

    • Sarah says:

      10:36am | 28/11/10

      That would explain why 200 000, brits move to australia every year.

      Reply

    • Me says:

      12:15pm | 28/11/10

      Hmm the photogrpah of English violence on the beach is interesting.
      But why not replace it with a picture of the Cronulla riots when white-Aussies went around bashing anybody with a tan for a couple of days. There is still a place for open racism in Oz.
      Also, Pakistani’s are not ‘Pakis’ either. It is seen to them as racism.

      Reply

    • stephen says:

      09:17pm | 28/11/10

      Pakistan is harbouring terroists from Afghanistan.
      It has just said no to a continuance of American drone attacks.
      It receives billions from NATO to rebuild defences along its northern border, yet most monies are apparently being siphoned off to pay Taliban Warlords.

      Tell those pakis’ to stick it up their arse.

    • Bruce says:

      12:36pm | 28/11/10

      Sounds like the writer ‘took the bait’. Just about every ‘pom’ I have spoken to in the UK wishes their country was more like Australia.

      Reply

    • Me again says:

      07:22pm | 28/11/10

      I’m loving all the great TV series, films, music, books etc etc Australia has given the world. Oh no they haven’t given us any worthwhile. Just a really tacky culture of jealousy and bitterness that has in recent years become a joke of the worlds community. Oh….and the racism, can’t forget that.

      Reply

    • Dean The Bastard says:

      09:28pm | 28/11/10

      Some knob in the UK press writes a paragraph and another knob in the Aussie press responds as if every man woman and child in the UK wrote it.
      Get some reality please!

      Reply

    • Chris Gentle says:

      09:54pm | 28/11/10

      You could also suggest to him that Australia, within it’s gurtness of the sea has the worlds oldest living continuous Culture.

      The indiginous culture of Australia is well over 50000 years old. Old blighty has nothing on that.

      Reply

    • R Mattock says:

      10:40pm | 28/11/10

      Oh dear - just read the majority of the comments made here, so basically if its not Australian its not worth a look or a consideration?  Yes you have better weather, its not really surprising given the different geographic locations of both countries. . . yawn!
      The UK is not a dump as neither is Australia - the difference is culture and standing in the world , like it or not the UK is a world player at the centre of the western world.
      My friends lived in Sydney for 2 years - they enjoyed their time in the city, my friends wife is Italian by decent, and was accused several times of being a pommie paki whilst in Australia? Is that forward thinking? ( oh and their teeth are fine too)
      When they told their friends they were moving back to the UK they were ridiculed and told by Australians who had never left their own back yards and been to Europe that they were mad to go back to that dump?  Never actually having been to the UK ? Apparently it rains non stop too!
      Perhaps insularity and geographic location has left your culture bereft of the ability to be open minded and diverse ?

      And yes I have been to Australia - lived in Sydney and Brisbane - had a great time but now in London and love it , the world on my doorstep, and the sun is shining!

      Reply

    • An Aussie with British parents says:

      12:56am | 29/11/10

      England sent all the convicts to paradise while the 3rd world arrived via the back door. That’s why the Pom’s are so miserable!

      Anyway, I’m looking forward to the 2nd Test. I’ll be there with bells on. The only problem is that I’ll be with a bunch of guys from the Barmy Army, so I’ll have to put up with hearing unimaginative songs about convicts all day. But it’s better than the alternative, which is to hang around with a bunch of bogans chanting ‘aussie aussie aussie oi oi oi’. Talk about cultural cringe!

      The banter between Australia and Britain arises because the two nations are about as culturally close as any two nations possibly could be. Ofcourse the internet age - with all the petty little keyboard warriors out there - threatens to turn the banter sour. Australians are so British it’s not funny. But what IS funny is that most Australians don’t see it and those that do certainly won’t admit it!

      Reply

    • CDE says:

      01:05am | 29/11/10

      Oh my goodness. Can no one realise that there are uncultured people in every country? If I’ve learned anything from travelling and living in both the UK and Australia, it’s that we definately shouldn’t make all the ridiculous and stereotypical judgements I’ve read here.

      Reply

    • mat says:

      03:08am | 29/11/10

      200,000 brits to australia every year? er, i don’t think so.

      Reply

    • What the.... says:

      03:40am | 29/11/10

      Matthew Norman from The Telegraph (UK) what were you thinking when you wrote this rubbish?  If we have nothing here, why are tens of thousands Poms migrating to Australia each year? Are they coming here just to watch sport?  Doubt it mate.

      Reply

    • Anonymous says:

      05:31am | 29/11/10

      1. Yup the English are jealous of SOME parts of Australia! But we only like the fact that you have beaches and nice weather!
      2. Obviously you have only visited parts of England whereby drunken yobs are all you see. And i can agree on that because especially cities are full of it. But there are beautiful parts of the country which few see (maybe because your journalists are a tad jealous!)
      3. Your TV’s crap face it! Those are’s isnt much better!
      4.We’re all technically English here so what’s to whine about?
      5. You do seem to get a bit snappy don’t you with the whole cricket thing. There isn’t a lot of coverage of the cricket in England so every inhabitant of our ‘island floating in the North Sea’ does not want to rub it into your faces.
      6. More people have come from England that have made an advance in an area be it technology, medicine etc Apart from Neighbours what has Australia given the world! (And even that’s not very good!

      Reply

    • Millsy says:

      07:35am | 29/11/10

      Sorry old chap. Not biting.

      You sure about that?

      Reply

    • Bob says:

      08:27am | 29/11/10

      Rob, tell me what England currently has in its favour. I am currently living in country Victoria and am seeing more and more poms moving to this country. Is it that England has now gone to the dogs that much that all your culture and well to do feeling has long since left, or has it moved to paradise.

      Reply

    • Katie says:

      08:53am | 29/11/10

      Perhaps it would do the Australian media and government some good to announce our *non-sport* achievements with the aplomb that they do our sporting wins. Having also lived in both countries, and being first generation Australian, I can say that we certainly have the higher quality of living, and given that white Australians have only been here for just over 200 years, I don’t think we’re doing too bad culturally, but then, we could always be doing better. Maybe if the poms had sent over their painters, writers and philosophers things would be a little different.

      Reply

    • Heather says:

      09:58am | 29/11/10

      Excellent point. The real “issue” here (if there really is one: I’m an Anglophile and adore both countries for different reasons) is that the media portrays us as a bunch of sports yobbos and neglects to raise other achievements (such as, oh, say, Griffith University in Brisbane developing the cervical cancer vaccine, just as a start). Arts funding at Universities is being ignored in favour of sports (and, to be fair, science), which is one of the disadvantages of a constant stream of Labor State governments: we cannot have a “culture” if we relegate our own, and everyone else’s, to the bin.

    • Mark Evans says:

      08:59am | 29/11/10

      I was born in North QLD with a Welsh background so I really hate the English…So most of the english who are working here and have lied on there CV and have over stayed there VISA ...piss off !!

      And why have you overstayed your VISA becuase of the thought of going back to that shit hole.

      I am very Australian my mothers side where Shearers hard life style in the outback of QLD…I even jackarood around Australia, and worked at the property and went in to the room where Banjo Patterson wrote “Waltzing Matilda” the hairs stood on the back of my neck when I did that at the age of 17….my father is one of the founding members of ACDC…

      I am so glad the Australian dollar is gaining momentum.

      Yes we have have our cultural differences, but least we are not pesimistic and get on with the job.

      Remember Gallipoli you English sent Australian soldiers to there death, use as as your cannon fodder.

      Oh and if you have ever worked a hard day in your life in 40 degree heat the last thing you want is a friggin beer full of HOPPS…

      Reply

    • John says:

      12:04pm | 29/11/10

      You HATE the English??  I am English. I have never done anything to hurt anybody. I never sent anybody to Gallipoli. I am not pessimistic. I live in Australia like yourself and enjoy living amongst Australians, Brits, Americans etc etc. But if YOU met ME you would instantly HATE me because I am English?  I think that speaks more about your personality than me as an Englishman Mark.  Very sad.

    • USA says:

      09:56am | 29/11/10

      Amassing, Wow, Beautiful, and Fantastic.  If a nation’s race shows its intelligence by putting others down, even a rat knows when to jump ship, we watch those who yell the loudest at the top of the mast, look at them, still hanging on, amassing, wow, beautiful, and fantastic. They are all goners, can’t happen soon enough.

      Reply

    • john says:

      12:12pm | 29/11/10

      Quite surprised how much abuse an American got on here from Aussies. America collectively is very fond and endearing towards Australia.
      Australian TV is (after-all) made up almost entirely of American & UK shows. Yet Australia still has time to butcher both cultures of their brotherlands. It really is a shame that Aussies have to act this way. With regards to the Irish & Welsh people joining the argument against those ‘evil’ Poms. You make this all seem like a schoolyard slagging match. Like I said before, I am English, and I haven’t done anything to hurt anybody. Why ‘hate’ me?

      Reply

    • Mark says:

      01:22pm | 29/11/10

      I have seen enough of the English wave of backpackers come of here since the late 80"s with there scams and just complete lack of respect to the Australian way of life.

      Travel all this way and just hang with your on kind at Bondi why bother, the only thing they bring is there VD and bad odour.

    • John says:

      05:12pm | 30/11/10

      That is a massive generalisation Mark. I could say the same about Aussies in the UK, but I am not as ignorant as you. Get with the current times mate and stop living in the 80’s. Gladly most of the Aussies I know are nothing like you in that respect. They have moved with the times.

    • majid says:

      11:47am | 30/11/10

      Here is what really annoys me with the poms I talked to here in Australia, it’s just their attitude from the minute they land here: they don’t sound tourists or migrants like other nationalities… as if Australia was still one of their colonies!!!

      Reply

    • John says:

      05:19pm | 30/11/10

      Here is what really annoys me about you Majid. You say ‘poms’ as if it is EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US. Myself and my English friends (I have plantly of Aussie friends also by the way) have always treated Australia with the respect it deserves from visitors. I don’t know one ‘pom’ who doesn’t.
      Majid, if you said the same quote above but changed the word ‘pom’ for ‘Indians’ it would be seen as racist. Are you?

    • Majid says:

      08:29pm | 30/11/10

      I said only the truth but the truth… And you John, you have just been as annoying as your compatriots… the usual patronising attitude. For you, Majid is an indian name, therefore I am an Indian and therefore you want to bring me into your perpetual antagonism with the Indians as it is pretty volatile in England… Bad luck , because I am not Indian. To answer your question if I am racist, indeed I am racist but only against the IDIOTS….

      Reply

    • Mathieu Proctor says:

      04:20pm | 05/12/10

      Come on guiys. Australia is a bit of a joke, and I think all Australians know it and feel comfortable with it, The UK takes on waves of immigrants and changes and evolves and morphes its language to accommodate its new residents and hopefully continues its resilience against far right politics at election time, whilst Australia does a poo whenever one of your actual muslims claims asylum.

      We accomodate 200,000 Australiansin London,  and they are welcome, whilst the average Aussie wants all poms to go to the electric chair for paying tax in Australia. You come across as rednecks, like peasants, do you not see that?

      Its not where you’re from, its where you;re at

      Reply

    • Devrim says:

      02:29pm | 07/02/12

      The thing which makes me laugh is that prior to the Test series ,several U.K.papers(Time,Telegraph et al)had articles saying that Flintoff was a disgrace,an idiotic buffoon,didn’t know how to behave,drank too much etc.Those same dickheads are now saying he should be knighted!Spare me,please.He is a good player,not a GREAT player.None the less,Australia were pretty insipid,and the Poms deserved to win.

      Reply
 
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