Kevin Rudd will give Tony Abbott one last chance to vote for an emissions trading scheme or face a possible snap election in March/April.

The heat is on

Acting Prime Minister, Julia Gillard, has announced that the Government will recommit its defeated emissions trading scheme bills on February, 2, the first sitting day of 2010.
``It will come to the Parliament in February, we will seek passage of the bill, all options are on the table as to what will happen next,’’ she said.

The bills went down yesterday after a marathon 50 hour Senate debate. Two Liberal senators crossed the floor but the eleven bills still were defeated 33 to 41.
Labor’s strategy now, while not immediately obvious, is cleverly crafted to trap the freshly minted Mr Abbott between the devil and the deep blue sea.

It works like this. Having had its ETS bills knocked off yesterday, the Government now has a double-dissolution election trigger in its back pocket. Importantly however, that trigger, applies to the original unamended scheme - the one presented and defeated in August. That is, it relates to the ETS before it was ``improved’’ with $7 billion worth of sweeteners for big polluters, coalminers, and electricity generators through Malcolm Turnbull’s efforts.

The bill that is to be re-presented first thing next year however, will be the Liberal-agreed (and then rejected) ETS - that is, ETS MkII - which includes the Turnbull improvements. Herein lies the trap for Mr Abbott who incidentally, has already ruled out any new taxes and rejected an ETS as a valid response to climate change.

Towards the end of a long hot summer, after power blackouts and bushfires, and with voters’ lawns dead, he will be faced with a choice between passing the Liberal improved ETS or being dragged to a snap climate change poll where, in likelihood the original ETS, sans billions in compensation for industry, would be backed by voters and passed in a joint sitting of the houses after the election.

At that point Liberals will be under intense pressure from those industry sectors, key Liberal supporters, to pass the amended / improved version.

From the Government’s point of view, the strategy has other advantages too.

First, it gives it a story to tell to get it over Christmas, ie: that it still wants its scheme passed. Second, realistically, a double-D election cannot simply be called out of the ether. Rather, it needs a crisis point, a moment of high drama. Rejection of the ETS bill in the second week of February would certainly give it that.

Finally, the time-table gives the Government more time to hone its own arguments for an ETS - a job it has not done well enough yet - and importantly, to gauge Mr Abbott’s relationship with voters. If it turns out Mr Abbott is doing well and is making gains, all bets will be off until much later in the year - say August.

But if the new and inexperienced leader has made a few mistakes or simply failed to animate middle Australia, expect Kevin Rudd to pull that trigger as early as mid-February. In some ways, he’ll have little choice.

Afterall, its either the great moral challenge of our times or it isn’t.

101 comments

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    • Patrick says:

      05:41am | 03/12/09

      Why must the media keep banging on about an imminent DD election? You know perfectly well that if there is to be a DD it won’t be until after July the 1st 2010, because if one is held before then, new senate terms will be backdated to July 1st 2009, limiting (what will probably be) Rudd’s second term to 2 years if he wants to keep the house and the senate elections in sync. There will under no circumstances be an election before July next year.

    • RT says:

      05:54am | 03/12/09

      Not a bad tactic. Let Abbott’s hubris and big mouth run away with him. Let him muse about nuclear energy and other unpopular or unworkable options.See if he hangs himself with the rope his fellow CC non-believers have given him.

    • Steve says:

      10:54pm | 04/12/09

      RT, Go back to reading the back page of the Tele. Its Labour Party Hacks like you that need to be outed. Seriously.
      Has anyone asked why the Greens did not support this either…all you can do is continue to regurgitate the same drivel you see on the box from Penny and Kevin. If it stinks like it , and looks like it then maybe just maybe it is…Abbot et al have all said they support an ETS…not this ETS…its toothless and has so many holes in it that you could drive a truck through it…read the fine print and stop slavishly following what your political football team coaches tell you.

    • Lindsay says:

      06:42am | 03/12/09

      This ancient lunatic will be chickenfeed for a political mastermind like Kevin Rudd.

    • Toddzilla says:

      07:38am | 03/12/09

      Political mastermind - this comment proves you are no genius. Rudd is nothing but smoke and mirrors - congratulations on falling for this hook, line and sinker. Seriously, dude, you and Ruddy are both oxygen thieves.

    • Lexi says:

      08:44am | 03/12/09

      Ah, Toddzilla… What you fail to acknowledge is that KRudd is a student of the J.Winston Howard school of politics.  It’s how he beat him at the last election.  Wedge + tax cuts = electoral win.

      He is working on wedging Abbott on this issue, but recognises there’s (a) too much work yet to do for an effective wedge and (b) he needs the timing to be right for senate electoral cycles so he isn’t the one wedged in the future.

      Abbott has a habit of engaging his mouth before his brain - something the government will no doubt be watching and waiting for over the holidays.  They (government) will also “educate” us so that the ETS isn’t so scary during that time.  Hard sell to advocate price rises across the board, which will impact on inflation and so impact on interest rates - or so my primitive macroeconomic brain computes.

      Meanwhile, Abbott and Tuckey will be advocating nuclear power (about as attractive as an arsenic sandwich and as innovative as the sliced bread component of said sandwich) as their “policy” and decrying ETS as a “T-A-X” for their scare campaign.

      All so predictable.  So boring.  So unpalatable.

    • Max says:

      08:55am | 03/12/09

      When doing important research about the potential future of the planet, scientists should have nothing to hide. Their obligation to the truth is an obligation to openness.

      Rudd’s ETS-imperative acting as a wedge depends on the wool continuing to be pulled over the eyes of the Australian people he so disrespects.

      Let’s have an open and in-depth debate between the scientific experts on all sides, and let’s make them open up their data to proper public scrutiny.

    • orangecrush says:

      10:14pm | 03/12/09

      I agree: 

      Then perhaps Steve Fielding would have to produce the data behind his ludicrously ‘faked’ temperature chart?

      Abbott could produce the data he has that shows why putting a price on carbon doesn’t encourage CO2 reduction (data that economists and governments world-wide don’t seem to know about)

      And Barnaby could produce his $1000/kg lamb data

      So climate change is ‘a fraud’?  Then it’s strange that Abbott and the LNP have so many great ideas for addressing this fraud?  e.g. solar, thermal, AND nuclear ...... anyone else see any inconsistency here ???

    • Ros says:

      12:30am | 04/12/09

      Lindsay is right, K Rudd knows how to play his cards, politically speaking; and the new opposition leader is indeed a nutty relic… and Toddzilla has obviously been on nothing but pure oxygen, which accounts for his mix of 1980s speak and something more reminiscent of the oldies at the RSL.  Seriously, dude, you’re wrong.

    • Old Clive says:

      06:45am | 03/12/09

      All this just goes to show that Labor is not really interested in Australia, it just wants the power to control. Chairman Rudd is on the way out, we will have Julia in power if there is a dd.

    • Waz says:

      06:45am | 03/12/09

      They have the nice little primer attack ads out on him already. Nice little stew boiling for this contemptible man.

    • Dot says:

      09:24am | 03/12/09

      It’s interesting reading a US view in the Commentary, by Jillian Melchior who applauds Abbotts stance. Yes Abbott is making news in the US, something Rudd desperately tries to do but can’t. Too funny I say.

    • eddie says:

      10:46am | 03/12/09

      of course they will love abbott in the us, he is their favorite sort of person, a fundamenatlist flat earther.

    • Kelley L says:

      11:51am | 03/12/09

      eddie, the article was actually about Abbotts opposition to Rudds ETS and opening up other options for debate in Australia and about the cost of Rudds ETS on Australia and business.. Nothing to do with flat earthers, or what ever label you are trying to give him. Abbott believes in climate cahnge and believes we should act on it, he doesn’t believe the ETS is the only answer. Labels like Extremist, Denier, Skeptic etc is Rudds scare campaign against Abboott which now falls on deaf ears, because those labels are incorrect.

    • Jack Sparrow says:

      06:49am | 03/12/09

      That will fire this right wing nutter up even more.

    • Monk Man says:

      06:51am | 03/12/09

      “Towards the end of a long hot summer, after power blackouts and bushfires, and with voters’ lawns dead” FFS where do you come up with this crap.

    • Simon says:

      09:02am | 03/12/09

      lol. The mad monk may yet promise to deliver higher rainfall if elected. However he has been more restrained as leader of the opposition for sure, so I am not sold that he is about to engage mouth before brain just yet.

    • N says:

      01:46pm | 03/12/09

      At least Abbott will throw on the RFS overalls and help in said bushfires unlike our precious PM….

    • Alert but not alarmed says:

      06:53am | 03/12/09

      Delay is denial.

    • BW says:

      06:58am | 03/12/09

      There will be no double dissolution election because it means a full Senate election, which reduces by half the quota required to have a Senator elected. And if you think the ALP are in the business of giving the Greens and other minor parties a free kick like this, you’re barking mad!

    • Cpt Cliche says:

      07:01am | 03/12/09

      The battlelines have been drawn for summer. Sorry had enough of that. Rudd will retereat for a breather to the red corner and let Tony swing at the air and exhaust himself over summer? Th Monk(y) looks unfazed.

    • Steve Atkins says:

      07:08am | 03/12/09

      C’mon Mark,
      The fact is the original ETS before amendments is unsellable to the electorate.  It goes out of its way to alienate everybody and Labor knows this -otherwise they never would have agreed to negotiate and water it down in the first place.  It wasn’t just a kindly gesture to the Opposition to agree to amendments - there was mileage in it for Labor.  If Labor goes to the polls on an ETS they will offer the most saleable version of it possible and this would include concessions to as many as possible. 
      At the moment there seems to be a significant amount of momentum building against the ETS - I doubt this will suddenly die and embolden Labor to take a run . Rudd is IMO too gutless to risk losing the unloseable election . It would not be the epitaph he had in mind.

    • watty says:

      07:12am | 03/12/09

      Kenny and his fellow committee men of the Canberra Press Club are reporting the defeat of Rudd’s ETS like a death in their families.

      Kenny’s prediction about “double dissolutions” is the invention of the National Media ,not the Labor Party, with SKY TV and theMSM leading the pack .

      Predictions of blackouts,dried up lawns ,industry groups reactions appear to be more wishful thinking by Kenny than anything based on fact.

      Whilst realising the majority of the Canberra Press Gallery are in shock and suffering from depression because the ETS went down and Abbott got up my suggestion to them is
      “SUCK IT UP”

    • Wayne Hutchins says:

      07:02pm | 03/12/09

      Well said mate!

    • Mr. Peabody says:

      07:15am | 03/12/09

      Tony, I’m sure we can find some nice land for a nuclear plant in Manly.

    • Diamantina Dick says:

      07:36am | 03/12/09

      Rudd will not rush early to an election because he is risk averse and it will be the first where he has something to lose.

      Anyone who thinks there will be “stewing” and “swinging punches in the air” over Summer is kidding, Australia is on holidays and at the Tennis or Cricket.

      If delay is denial and this is the greatest moral challenge of our genereation (or whatever) why do we not already have a date?

    • Darren says:

      07:37am | 03/12/09

      In my office we are running a sweep on when Tony will insult either the gay community or women in general - it is a fun game - I am going for Monday next week

    • Bob M says:

      08:51am | 03/12/09

      Must a small office - 1 person?

    • mcdazz says:

      10:12am | 03/12/09

      It won’t be long before he does, that’s for sure.

    • D'oh says:

      11:57am | 03/12/09

      D’oh, commented on wrong comment!
      Sorry mcdazz!!

    • D'oh says:

      10:42am | 03/12/09

      Answers:
      It won’t.
      It won’t.
      They won’t.
      Bring on the common sense discussion!!

    • Eric says:

      07:50am | 03/12/09

      Meanwhile, Climategate continues to break. Will there be any believers left by next year?

    • Old Clive says:

      07:51am | 03/12/09

      All you labor bloggers had better face up to the fact that Whitlam and his prodigy have had their run and stuffed up again with their illusions of Granduer, I am quite sure that we will be able to find another car for Rudd to sleep in, and a cow for Him to milk, like he is milking this country.

    • Andrew Goff says:

      07:54am | 03/12/09

      I doubt Rudd would want a double dissolution election since that would give the fringe parties a much bigger say (imagine 12 Greens and 6 Family First senators… dear lorad what a debacle)... especially sicne that would mean the ETS still wouldn’t get passed.

      But, to all the right wing out there, just because you agree with Abbott doesn’t make him in any way electable. It’s the same as a Greenie saying Bob Brown is a legend therefore he is going to win the next election.

      Seriously. You’re in that much electoral trouble.

    • iansand says:

      08:07am | 03/12/09

      I wonder what alternative to an ETS Abbott will produce?  I doubt that “do nothing” will be attractive to the electorate who, I suspect, have noticed the occasional climatic aberration.

    • Rohan says:

      09:05am | 03/12/09

      Reports that Copenhagen is set to debate Nuclear in the way forward for climate change policies globally.

    • Peter says:

      09:40am | 03/12/09

      As Rohan said Nuclear is now going to be on the agenda at Copenhagen, how stupid will Rudd look when he has no intention of even discussing the Nuclear option. Rudd you have painted yourself into a corner and now you may finish up looking like a bit of fool in Copenhagen. Your arogant attitude of, it’s my way or the highway may very well bring you undone.

    • Sim says:

      10:04am | 03/12/09

      Big whoop. Tim Flannery has explained why Austrlia doesn’t need nuclear on many occasions.

    • Rohan says:

      10:24am | 03/12/09

      Actually Sim what Tim Flannery has illustrated is that the global approach would involve Nuclear Energy as part of the negotiations. And Australia will have to be part of a global solution including Nuclear Energy.

    • D'oh says:

      11:16am | 03/12/09

      Sim, so you tuned into ABC radio this morning too huh?
      Can’t have nuclear when precious climate change advocate Flannery has so much vested in geo-thermal now can we…
      Opps, did I just say vested interest and climate change advocate in the same sentence??

    • Mitch says:

      01:10pm | 03/12/09

      er, Sim you may need to do some more reading on the subject. Nuclear Energy is pretty much the key discussion coming up at Copenhagen.

    • bumpkin says:

      04:46pm | 03/12/09

      Well, if the cat out of the bag Joyce is anything to go by he indicated what they are going to do. Carbon sequestration, gas, rail instead of road, individual components such as we are seeing with insulation, solar,  funds for technology etc…Everything that is already being done.
      The defining point which will no doubt get voters off side is there is no committment to penalise or pull high polluting corporations into line. They will not bare any burdon to change.
      The complete responsibility will be on the voters. The other difference, Nuclear.
      Abbott on radio ABC conceded that if other nations follow through on the ETS we will have one choice but to implement one so as not to send our economy into oblivion.
      Joyce was snookered on this very issue on Lateline.
      So effectively what we are going to get from Abbott is the never, never, ever, ETS.  And the other issue being revisited is a tougher Workchoices, which they promised in their defeat would never be revisited. Mmmmmm…................Trust?

    • Michael says:

      09:52pm | 03/12/09

      “The defining point which will no doubt get voters off side is there is no committment to penalise or pull high polluting corporations into line. They will not bare any burdon to change.” No. they just want government to ‘do something’ about climate change, but the cost is not in their equation. You have obviously missed the debate a few years.

    • Bruce says:

      08:17am | 03/12/09

      The Liberal party know they most probably can not win the next election. In the mean time they can do some damage, and maybe save us from a future huge tax bill. Once many in the electorate understand just what a personal cost to their standard of living the proposed ETS will be, I think many swinging voters will get “inchy feet” and look for a more cost effective ETS solution.

    • Mark says:

      08:26am | 03/12/09

      Bring it on Kev. Between the ETS, Internet Filter, disgraceful spending I’m just itching to cast my vote.

    • Jade says:

      09:37am | 03/12/09

      Me too! The sooner the better….

    • QQMore says:

      08:37am | 03/12/09

      yeah right mark, as if liberals wont filter the internet, whats their policy? ( they wont say eh? hmmmm ) and if its disgraceful to spend money to avoid more hurt in the economy, then youre living in bizzaro world.  if liberals were so good at things, we wouldnt be stuck with rudd now would we? the liberals are headed the same way as the republicans in america, extreme right wing weirdos.. just look at old clive! - would you like workchoices with that? a sprinkle of uranium in your back yard?

    • Bruce says:

      10:59am | 03/12/09

      All I know is I was richer 2 years ago than I am now. Just look at your superannuation if you do not believe me. Also The Democrats are Liberals, and for that matter even more right wing than our own Liberal Party.

    • Mark says:

      11:22am | 03/12/09

      The liberals did provide a filter to the internet, but even they were smart enough to know it wouldn’t work, therefore provided it free to the public IF they wanted to use it. Not this disgrace that is being forced down our throats to win votes. As for the money that was recklessly handed out what actual good did it do the country? A lot of people had better TVs, cameras or whatever, but the only countries that really got a boost were foreign. And now we we’re going to have greater taxes to pay it all back. You might be against work choices, that’s your right, but the country was in great financial shape before Kev got his hands on the credit card. And now he wants to increase taxes to pay for business that produce emissions. Why not make the businesses pay for it themselves? Did you know that the ETS includes the need for business to purchase a permit? And where do you think the cost of that is going to be passed onto? It’s going to be you and me that pays for this. So by all means bash the Libs, but I’m not living in a bizzaro (as you eloquently out it) word where everything Kev says is right.

    • Luke says:

      08:38am | 03/12/09

      Waiting until after a long hot summer, blackouts and bushfires. Oh really, hello, how stupid do they think we are (I missed dead lawns) these are normal weather conditions over summer which we always expect. If the Government were serious about acting NOW as they say on climate change they would hold a DD. It goes to show they are more interested in playing politics with the opposition than acting NOW on climate change.

    • The Drover says:

      09:00am | 03/12/09

      What happens if we have a wet summer?

    • Betelnut says:

      03:43pm | 03/12/09

      HI Carl,

      I am definately no expert in carbon sequestration but i can have a crack at your question

      Obviously households will not be eligable for schemes designed to promote alternative land use.  Presumably, farmers planting acerage out with trees accrue carbon offsets (or permits) that they would be able to sell to emittors for profit.  The types and densitites of the trees planted and the length of time they would remain as trees would be used to calculate the awarded offset, presumably by a government department or authority.  They may subsequently require a carbon emission permit if they decide to clear the land again.

      As you say, these calulations are exceedingly complex and require a large government beaurocracy to administer.  Indeed, for many this is a good argument for a broad based, simple to administer Carbon tax on CO2.  By stipulating a price on Carbon, the government would provide a price signal to both business and consumers to adopt less carbon intensive footprints, and therby lead to reductions.

      The upside of a Carbon tax is the price of Carbon is known and stable, and it is realtively simple to administer. The downside is the price of carbon required to produce a nominated reduction target is unknown.  In addition, the costs hit all industries regardless of whether their carbon usage is essential or wasteful.

      However,  if commiting to an international framework with pledged reductions in carbon emissions, an ETS makes the most sense by giving governments certainty about the levels of reduction targets and leaving the mechanisms about achieving these targets up to industry and the permit trading market.  A functional market should in theory ensure that the easiest mechanisms for carbon reduction are the first to be enacted, thereby ensuring minimal economic cost. 

      Your tree planting business is possible under an ETS, but I am not sure it would work under a Carbon tax.  Thus an ETS is complex to administer, but may enable alternatives to simple reduction in offsetting carbon emissions.

      All good in theory, will be interesting to see how it all pans out.

      Cheers

      B

    • Steve of Cornubia says:

      07:30pm | 06/12/09

      A wet summer will be hailed by climate change disciples as final proof that mankind is destroying the earth. However, should this summer prove to be dry, then that will be the ultimate evidence that mankind is destroying the earth. Should rainfall be bang on the 100 year average, that will be absolute, conclusive proof that mankind is destroying the earth.

    • Eric says:

      09:02am | 03/12/09

      You have no idea how the Republicans are polling in the US, do you?

    • Charles says:

      09:03am | 03/12/09

      Iansand, I am not sure there is any climatic aberration.

      At the moment, according to RSS and UAH (it would appear GISStemp and HadCRU are now hopelessly compromised) , we are about 0.3-0.4C above the 1960-1990 climate temperature mean, from which the temperature anomaly is normally calculated. 

      It is generally accepted that as we come out of the Little Ice Age (1350-1720) the planet is gradually warming up at about 0.1-0.2C per century.  Around this are also the PDO (Pacific Decadel Oscillation), and the AMO (Atlantic Meridial Oscillation) in force which creates alternative warming and cooling periods of approximately 30 years each, which swings the global temperature up and down about 0.3-0.4C.

      Since 2/3 of the mean is caculated from a global warming period (1950-1980), it would mean that the true mean should probably be 0.1-0.3C higher.  Therefore, we are just about where we should be, which is about 0.0-0.1C from the true Global Mean Temperature.

    • Wilson Turkey says:

      09:21am | 03/12/09

      Abbott has as much chance of winning the next election as Simon Crean had of becoming PM.

    • Andrew Goff says:

      11:44am | 03/12/09

      OK, so you deny climate change all together. On the basis of that.

      Your paragraph 1: we are 0.3 to 0.4 degrees warmer now than 1960 to 1990.
      Your paragraph 2: you say we should be going up 0.1 to 0.2 per century. Plus climate cycles.

      So, from an average (1890 to 1950) to (1950 to 2010) we should expect to be 0.2 (most) hotter on average. This would consider the two 30 year cycles you mention for fairness of comparison and compares the 100 year “expected change”. Unfortunately for your argument on the same RSS figures you quote, temperatures have gone up 0.9 degrees in that time period.

      So, keep going. You’ve accounted for about 15% of warming without any human influence… I’m keen to see that other 85%. Then we can actually start peer reviewing whether the science of your claims above is actually right.

    • iansand says:

      09:22am | 03/12/09

      That is all fascinating, but I did not say there was an aberration.  I said that the electorate has noticed them.

    • Carol says:

      09:24am | 03/12/09

      Yes indeed. Abbott will be wishing he was back at the seminary before K. Rudd’s office is finished with him. One of the most disgraceful politicians Australia has seen.

    • Juju says:

      10:17am | 03/12/09

      Oh hop back on your broomstick Carol - ‘K Rudds office are finished with him’?  They’ll be clearing out K Rudds office before you can say ‘Holy Cow !’ more likely.

    • Carl Palmer says:

      09:29am | 03/12/09

      The rest of the world has started to take the CRU to the cleaners. This includes Dr Mann, Dr Jones, Keith Briffa, Ben Santer, Kevin Trenberth, Gavin Schmidt and Dr James Hansen (Al Gore’s mate).  This is the key body that feeds data and information (and I think actually writes the documents) to the IPCC on AGW. Even George Monbiot has demanded that Dr Jones step down as head of the CRU.

      There are already calls for these people to be prevented from advising and providing any further input to the IPCC.

      We know that some crucial raw data is “lost and or destroyed” so substantiating their work will in all probability be very difficult and will probably leave more and more questions unanswered. If anything it will leave one huge question mark on the science. They will silence themselves as is happening now.

      If they want to clear their names, these people will need to provide to the rest of the world how they reached their “AGW conclusion” and all data that was used to reach this conclusion. If they can’t then they will be discredited and I would imagine kicked out.

      So if this comes to pass, then the ETS / CPRS – which like the rest of the world used the IPCC to build the Climate Change case will just crumble and disappear as will the double dissolution concern.

      I would offer this proposition – the ALP will start to feel rather nervous (could this have already started) about the “greatest moral dilemma of our time” a corner stone of their election policy.

    • Jane says:

      10:00am | 03/12/09

      It has just been announced that Phil Jones, Head of Climate Research (CRU) has stepped down. What does that tell you.

    • D'oh says:

      09:46am | 03/12/09

      Oh, so what happened to all the rush and haste?  What happened to Rudd and Wong screaming WE NEED A MANDATE FOR COPEHAGEN!!!!
      It could just be tactics, but more likely they are afraid that the anti ETS sentiment in the electorate would result in their losing government.  It is a pretty cowardly and pathetic move on their part.

    • Super D says:

      10:01am | 03/12/09

      “Delay is denial”  screamed the ALP.

      They are a fraud.  This legislation is a sham and they know it.  Wedge politics played by a tricky and clever politician.

      I’m sure the plan is for Abbott to shoot himself in the foot over xmas and be replaced by Hockey or a resurgent Turnbull in the new year. 

      Rudd / ALP would rather get some patsy in charge of the liberals instead of making the case for this crappy policy.

      This is a hollow government with absolutley no ticker.  They are intellectual fruads expert in manipulating a compliant media.  Rudd Labor is going to be remembered as the nations worst ever government.

    • Drewboy says:

      10:09am | 03/12/09

      Can somebody please explain to me in simple terms how the ETS will solve climate change issues?

      How will a tax prevent emissions?

      How will government subsidies lower the temperature?

      Time for a common sense discussion.

    • D'oh says:

      11:55am | 03/12/09

      D’oh!!  I am still gettig used to this comment on comments!!
      Let’s try again:
      It won’t.
      It won’t.
      They won’t.
      Common sense discussion time!!
      (it lacks the punch second time round :-(...ah well as Abbott would say…)

    • Dave says:

      02:27pm | 03/12/09

      The logic behind an ETS makes perfect sense to me. Companies (and some individuals) will do nearly ANYTHING to bolster their bottom line and reduce costs. Projects in business are usually undertaken because they will either raise revenue or cut costs.

      Under an ETS, a limit is placed on the total amount of carbon that can be emitted into the atmosphere. This limit (cap) sets the number of available pollution permits, which are then bought and sold (traded). Over time, the cap drops; economics 101 says less supply of permits increases the cost of carbon pollution.

      So, the idea is that by raising the cost of carbon (over time), business, individuals and government all stand to profit from lowering their carbon emissions, and being able to trade the permits. Those that dont can still pollute but you’ll pay to do so, instead of profit. Simple.

      Tony Abbott’s scheme for combating climate change is utterly useless. How on earth do you plan do reduce carbon emissions for free?? That is impossible. I agree with his position on nuclear power, that debate needs to be had again, but that alone will not solve the problem - by a long shot.

    • Muzz says:

      10:12am | 03/12/09

      Bring on the election Rudd if your so confident, I can’t wait.

    • Lester says:

      10:28am | 03/12/09

      When do we get some more polls on preferd PM? I can’t wait for that result either. Will Kevins popularity still be at catastrophic levels? Or will it be the largest fall in approval ratings for a PM ever in history. Should be interesting.

    • mcdazz says:

      10:44am | 03/12/09

      It won’t be long - the Mad Monk loves to shoot his mouth off regardless of how stupid he sounds.

    • Bozo says:

      10:49am | 03/12/09

      Julia Gillards response to a DD “in the interests of the Ausrlalian People” what a laugh that is. They had no debate about options for reducing carbon emmisions, they made their decision and cut the debate in Australia out, they wouldn’t even sell or explain the ETS to the Australian people. It’s taken Tony Abbott with guts to stop this attitude of it’s Labors way, no other to be contemplated or debated amongst Australians, to change that. To say that Abbott is running a scare campaign is rediculas compared to the scare campaign run by Rudd and Wong on climate change and what will happen if we don’t accept their ETS before Copenhagen. “in the interests of the Australian people” what a joke. They didn’t care before now, so you expect Australians to fall for that line now Julia.

    • Carl Palmer says:

      11:03am | 03/12/09

      Oh and another thing - there have been many calls on The Punch to have the ETS / CPRS explained. It would be reasonable to expect that is would be the responsibility of Senator Wong. 

      Albert Einstein.once said that “If you can’t explain it simply, you don’t understand it well enough”. If they can’t then vote it down.

    • Randal says:

      11:41am | 03/12/09

      “Cleverly crafted” strategy, well that is one point of view and shows clearly where you sit politically Mark.

      The reality is that the government is in a touch of panic, they wanted this deal on an ETS and caved in on everything the Libs wanted as they knew the ETS would be unsellable at an election and they wanted this legislation out of the way and not as a DD trigger.

      They are also concerned that there will be no agreement for the world to move to a global ETS at Copenhagen, making the government’s ETS look as though it could cripple Australia’s business competiveness in global markets and have many asking, if they are not why should we.

      Praying for a dry spell and hoping the community does not wise up to a lack of investment in infrastructure by the Labor State governments in essential services, despite continuing population growth, or worse, hoping that our citizens have their lives at risk by bushfires will not get the ETS over the line.

      What Rudd is hoping for is time for the Libs to further splinter, they will not though as already the Libs are beginning to drive the discussion on climate change, with the nuclear debate being the lead story across the commercial radio stations this morning, something Labor would not want front as centre as they ignored this option under an ETS, and as soon as those within the party, regardless of factions, get a scent of a chance at the next poll they will fall in behind the leader.

      These are worrying times for Labor, their cornerstone piece of legislation has been knocked over and they will now be forced to sell a tax to the community that will be very unpopular and provided the Libs become one voice on this we will not see an election until well into the next year.

      Abbott may well have been the accidental leader, he is however the accident the Libs needed to become a strong voice in opposition.

      Can they win an election, unlikely, but I will tell you one thing, the longer the ALP defer an election the more chance they are conceding that the Liberals have and for a populist leader such as Rudd that would be very concerning.

    • D'oh says:

      11:52am | 03/12/09

      In related news, Dr Spash (the gagged CSIRO scientist) has resigned in frustration.
      Not looking good for the credibility of AGW, I mean MMGW, I mean ACC, I mean MMCC.
      So hard to keep up with these acronyms.

    • Rohan says:

      01:28pm | 03/12/09

      Yes, the system that even Dr James Hansen is now rubbishing.

    • Lilly says:

      12:09pm | 03/12/09

      I heard The Monk has already gone worldwide in the news. UK and US included. Kevin has been trying for that sort of exposure for two years!

    • D'oh says:

      01:41pm | 03/12/09

      and he did not even have to emit any CO2 to travel there to do it!!

    • Keiron says:

      03:13pm | 03/12/09

      I know, isn’t it hilarious. Kev must be so pissed off, not only did Abbott kill his ETS for Copenhagen, he’s making news in the States and the UK. Go Tony!

    • Betelnut says:

      12:44pm | 03/12/09

      Hi Carl and others wanting a simple rundown of the ETS, this from George M over at the Australian (undoubtedly the best policy blogger in Aus)..

      “An ETS places a price on carbon. It does this by issuing permits to industry that emit carbon and other greenhouse gases to continue polluting.
      An individual business can use its permits to emit, or it can switch to cleaner energy sources and sell some or all of their permit to those who can’t. Or if it’s feeling really green it can simply tear up the permit.
      Each year, the government issues fewer permits. That’s how emissions are cut over time; the supply is reduced, so the price of carbon rises each year to the point when it becomes more economical to find a cleaner energy source. That’s the theory anyway.
      See the point here is that carbon has no price on it at the moment, so whatever damage it does to the environment is not taken into account.
      Kevin Rudd followed John Howard’s manual, in the end, by giving back most of the permit revenue to industry to give them a leg-up in the transition to the new market. I won’t bore you with the breakdown.
      Suffice to say this is a very small tax. Its impact on prices in the real economy is about a quarter that of the GST. ”

    • Carl Palmer says:

      02:33pm | 03/12/09

      Hi Betelnut thanks for that. I had a rough idea on the overall process though you did fill in a couple of holes - much appreciated.
      It was the calculation of the carbon emission / absorption that I was interested in.  For example I’m a farmer or I have a big backyard and I have 2 plants and one absorbs twice as much carbon as the other plant, does that mean therefore that I’d get credit y for one and credit y x 2 for the other? Would that mean that the reverse would apply ie I chopped up the plants and released the carbon? Something like this was debated in the senate the other day but I didn’t hear the end result. It was very interesting indeed.

      If this is right, then someone will need to measure everything - emission and absorption rates and capacity to store. You’ll also need one massive bureaucracy - Australian Climate Change Regulatory Authority aka “The Authority” to keep tabs on all of this stuff. This is where the complexity kicks in.

      Finally your explanation was very clear, I hand’t heard the same clarity from the Senator nor the opposition demanding it.

    • Bob M says:

      10:32pm | 03/12/09

      Betelnut, sounds wonderful but here is another view from THE WALL STREET JOURNAL - ‘The Copenhagen Climate-Change deal is crumbling, but Australia’s Labor Government wants to pass it’s very own cap-and trade bill this week, even though it won’t curb global warming but will raise energy prices and cost thousands of jobs. Kevin Rudd has framed the vote in moral terms, asking policy makers to put “The National interest first” and political party interests last. Rudd’s appeal to emotion is the only way to justify the passage of the bill because the economics sure don’t support it. Australia only emits 1.5 per cent of total global emissions. By asking companies to pay for carbon permits, starting in 2011 Rudd will make Australian industry unilaterally less competitive, without any appreciable global benefit. The Wall Street Journal Asia editorialised further, It’s unclear how much this green utopia will cost given Canberra hasn’t released any comprehensive economic modelling of the revised schemes total cost.’ *****  doesn’t sound like a ‘very small tax’ to me.

    • Andrew Goff says:

      11:42am | 04/12/09

      Hi Bob M.

      Sorry to dissapoint… but where in the Wall Street Journal is that article? The article you are quoting doesn’t exist… a couple of right wing blog sites also quote it, but the article is not on any WSJ site, and they archive all their articles very thoroughly.

      Please provide a link to prove me wrong.

    • mozzy says:

      12:49pm | 03/12/09

      Seems to me that a lot of people have missed the gist of this article. I think that Mark is right that Abbott will be under a lot more pressure when Parliament resumes regarding the ETS and climate change politics generally, not necessarily because of a climate change induced heat wave over summer, but because climate change is much easier to spin after people have been sweltering in the Australian summer for the last 3 months (as we do every year). If, like last summer, we do have another summer of catastrophic bush fires and record breaking heat waves (and which meteorologists have been forecasting all year) the popular perception that climate change is at fault (regardless of the accuracy of such a claim) will be a very easy story for the government to exploit. No matter how much people on this and other blog sites harp on about climate gate or the contested nature of climate change science, when its bloody hot outside the great majority of people will rightly or wrongly attribute it to climate change. And with a great proportion of the coalition openly stating that man made climate change does not exist the government will easily exploit the issue to their electoral advantage. Maybe the climate change deniers will be right and more people will start to question the science behind it all, but somehow I doubt it. Every poll taken on the issue shows an overwhelming number of people believe in man made climate change and want the government to take action on it. And as the heat ramps up, and the annual bushfire season takes hold, this perception (and I say again, rightly or wrongly) will only harden.

    • Carl Palmer says:

      03:14pm | 03/12/09

      Mozzy, I agree with you but I’m expecting that TA will continue to explain the issue to the public. They have to be educated because many do not understand the issue and go as you have said on the here and now. My family doesn’t and don’t have the time to understand it and they are all uni / professional people.

      If TA doesn’t get on the front foot and keep pounding away then what Mark has written will come to pass. He has already started so hopefully he will continue. There are and will be many opportunities for him to attack the government. Having said that, rain would be a very good thing to have. Given that we have had good rain in Sydney, hopefully that will take the sting out of the fire season tail.

    • Razor says:

      12:57pm | 03/12/09

      “Delay is deinal’

      “this deal is available this week only”

      “greatest moral challenge of our generation”

      However, it can be delayed to 2011 to impliment and it doesn’t require a DD election immediately after rejection and the deal continues ad infinitum.

      Could the ALP please make up their mind.

      The longer the ALP dithers on this the better.  More time for the public to be educated about the uncertainties of the science and the costs of the proposed new tax and transfer system.  Also, more time for the RBA to keep lifting rates and for the prolifgaacy of the stimulus spending and the budget impact repayment of the debt will have (they will have to cut spending and/or increase taxes at somestage).

    • Gibbo says:

      01:25pm | 03/12/09

      Sorry, the jig is up. Climategate killed the ETS!

      Now that the hoax has been found out we can get back to life and get our scientists to work on REAL problems.

    • eddie says:

      01:30pm | 03/12/09

      Did you read teh article or did someone just read the headline to you. He resigned over not being able to publish critcism of the planned measures - ETS etc. not because he is a agw denier. in fact he is in favour of a straight out carbon tax to curb emmissions. You sceptics have a profound ability to see what you like and ignore any evidence contrary to your beleifs, in the same way that the good old religious fundamentalists like Abbott do.

    • Mel says:

      01:56pm | 03/12/09

      Rudd said delay is denial on ETS. So go to an election. Oh no, now the ETS is shown to be a tax we need a new name for the next one. Then go the election some time in 2010 on the biggest moral challenge of our time. lol.

    • Karl says:

      03:00pm | 03/12/09

      “individuals and government all stand to profit from lowering their carbon emissions, and being able to trade the permits. Those that dont can still pollute but you’ll pay to do so, instead of profit. Simple. “

      If you don’t see the fundamental flaw in that there is as much hope for you as there is for the ETS.

    • Jean says:

      03:20pm | 03/12/09

      Now we have the senior CSIRO environmental economist resign because his criticism of the ETS was censored. This is all starting to look a bit queer isn’t it?

    • Lucie says:

      03:22pm | 03/12/09

      In case anyone’s interested ANOTHER BOAT.

    • Emily's Nephew says:

      04:11pm | 03/12/09

      Keep trying Lucie, but it’s interesting that largely the posts for this thread have been on topic.

      Of course if nothing’s done about climate change then there will be more refugees - this time seeking assistance from the effects of global warming.

      Btw, don’t overlook the fact that our patient PM is giving Tone and his mates the chance _not_ to welsh on tier agreement.  Patience and grace - good attributes for a government when faced with incalcitrance!

    • Steve says:

      09:58pm | 04/12/09

      Wake up Emily…Just because its supposed to be fixing the climate does not mean its effective. Abbott is not against an ETS…hes against THIS ETS which has so many holes in it you could drive a truck through it.

    • RT says:

      03:44pm | 03/12/09

      Don’t get excited, we are already in another drought-producing El Nino period, which are of increasing frequency.

    • KLR says:

      04:11pm | 03/12/09

      The only sweating Tony Abbott will be doing this summer will be when he is called for volunteer fire brigade duty. Does Kevin Rudd really think Tony Abbott is scared of him!!!

    • Olga says:

      04:35pm | 03/12/09

      If Rudd and Wong were as serious on climate change action now as they spruke, they would have a DD now, to get their bill through. If Rudd doesn’t it proves he is more interested in the politics of it not the issue of climate change. All we have heard is how important and urgent it was to get this through before Copenhagen, but now they can wait. Yeh real serious about climate change.

    • Helena says:

      04:51pm | 03/12/09

      Julia said it was in the interest of the Australian people not to impose an election on them over the xmas period. They really are so thoughtful. Thinking of us instead of themselves. True Labor style. Thanks Jules.

    • thatmosis says:

      04:40pm | 03/12/09

      Good, the longer KRudd gives Abbott the better as more and more people are having their blinders removed as far as the ETS is concerned. The true facts are starting to emerge not the spin and hyperbolie that KRudd passes off as fact. The longer he leaves it the more his stand will become untenable as more and more layers of spin are removed from this emotive issue. The majority of people who can think for themselves are seeing that the ETS is just a TAX on everything and will do nothing to decrease or interrupt the flow of CO2 into the global atmosphere. We dont need a tax for nothing foisted upon us just salve the ego of the meglomaniac KRudd.

    • orangecrush says:

      09:56pm | 03/12/09

      For anyone who is genuinely interested in understanding the science involved in global warming and yhe facts that the vast majority of scientists do agree on, the article below makes a good fist of explaining it in a way most people can understand.  It does run to 20 pages as it attempts to logically refute a number of commonly held misconceptions.

      http://www.monthlyreview.org/080728farley.php

    • Carl Palmer says:

      01:28pm | 04/12/09

      orangecrush thanks for that, I will definitely give it a read.

 

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