Sectarianism is back in Parliament, well according to Kevin Andrews it is anyway. It was an odd accusation that, on the face of it, didn’t make a great deal of sense.

Cartoon by The Australian's Jon Kudelka

Kevin Andrews jumped up at the end of question time and accused Health Minister Nicola Roxon of a sectarian attack on the leader of the opposition: “Mr Speaker, there should be no place for this foul sectarian attack we get from this minister in this place.”

It wasn’t initially clear what Andrews got so fired up about, but if you rewind a moment you can see Roxon’s backhander when answering a question about a new mother’s support help line.

“We are very proud of this record. Unfortunately, because the Leader of the Opposition let his personal views get in the way of good policy, that was something that he never supported.”

Whatever your view on Abbott’s role as health minister and his Catholicism (courting controversy with RU486 and abortion counselling to name two), it was a pretty unnecessary barb on the back of a question from one of her own members about mothers’ support line run by nurses which had nothing to do with abortion.

Andrews, also a devout Catholic, has pointed out that Abbott had been the subject of similar baiting a week earlier by Roxon, but it was Andrews not Abbott who took the bait.  When Roxon had the right of reply she said Andrews had finally “lost it.”

There’s a couple of things going here, one relates to Tony Abbott and the other to Roxon’s own problems in health.

Abbott’s small target strategy of the last few weeks seems to have paid off to some degree, showing a rise as preferred PM in the latest Newspoll.

The Government thinks that Abbott is open to attacks about his record as health minister and his faith because it plays into the idea of Abbott being a hard-right religious warrior unpopular with women.  If they can get a rise out of Abbott painting him as “Latham the sequel” all the better as well. 

Rudd signalled the direction of this attack a few weeks ago when he described Abbott as a risk to the “social fabric” of the country.

But the other reason Roxon is keen to look at Abbott’s record is that her own is currently taking heavy fire.

The Rudd Government’s hand picked adviser on mental health, Professor John Mendoza, has recently resigned in disgust, and yesterday wrote in The Australian there is “no vision or commitment from the Rudd Labor government on mental health.”

Roxon made an appearance on the 7:30 report last night in which she was pummelled with criticism on the Government’s record on mental health. Roxon didn’t quite become the latest victim 7:30 report land, but on the back of Mendoza and further attacks by Australian of the Year Patrick McGorry, it came across as exactly what it was: unconvincing crisis management.

Furthermore the much publicised new health deal with the states is yet to actually eventuate with Western Australia still holding out.

Western Australian Premier Colin Barnett told the ABC’s Lateline on Monday that he’s not planning on signing up anytime soon.

“We’re not preparing - prepared to hand over control of our goods and services tax revenue. I mean, when was health reform ever about Federal Government control over the GST revenue? I can’t remember that being discussed way back”

The deal could possibly go ahead without WA but it would be messy and, with the Government experiencing big problems over mining in WA , being left out of the health deal would hardly endear Labor further with that electorate.

Health reform, along with the economy, is one of the trump cards the Rudd Government thinks it can play to win an increasingly dicey election. Rather than focussing on Tony Abbott’s record as Health Minister Nicola Roxon might do better to focus on her own, to avoid becoming another angry bard in a Hansard note in history herself.

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79 comments

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    • Eric says:

      06:13am | 23/06/10

      So that’s why several times a day there’s a Labor Party campaign ad about health on the radio.

      It wouldn’t bother me, but this campaign ad points to the australia.gov website. Both the ad and the website are paid for by my money - because they are masquerading as Federal Government “information ” ads.

      As are the “education information” ad, warning parents to be careful around schools because of all the new federally-funded construction work, and numerous others.

      All campaign ads for Labor at the next election, all paid for by taxpayer money. Have they no shame?

    • Joan says:

      08:22am | 23/06/10

      All those adverts a total waste of money - the queues and waits for treatment are just the same.- no streamline treatment in hospitals or local surgeries, just wait and wait as in Waiting for Godot

    • Wayne Fehlhaber says:

      09:22am | 23/06/10

      Well said Eric , Labor are in a tangled mess of their own making and have come to a late realisation that Health is no longer their major strengh in the community . The promised Health reform has led to virtually nothing and any proposed funding changes are so complex ,
      that any change to existing procedures are not worth making.
      The Rudd Labor govt. relied on undeliverable promises on health reform to gain votes to govern , but the background planning was not carried out , the states were not consulted .  We are still facing the same problems with hospital infrastructure , funding , staffing , and even with the Labor states signing the 30% G.S.T. deal , nothing has been achieved to this point in time.
      West Australia has refused to be part of the G.S.T. handover particularly as such a proposal was not addressed before Labor gained office .
      W.A. Premier Colin Barnett , summed it up well , saying ” Handing over West Australia’s G.S.T. revenue share was not canvassed prior to the 2007 federal election , and to agree to proposal without consulting West Australians is unacceptable. ”  How right he is. !
      This latest use of M.P.‘s religious faith would have to be one of the lowest points reached in federal history and highlights the governments failures in a sphere facing crisis after crisis , unaddressed by a Minister who prefers to deal in inferences and innuendo.

    • Jones says:

      12:08pm | 23/06/10

      What was that you said Wayne?  I hear something about “background planning” not being carried out and “states not consulted”?

      Surely not!  Not Kevin “Shoot-first-ask-questions-later” Rudd!

    • AliceC says:

      12:31pm | 23/06/10

      And how do you think the Liberal govermment funded their election campaigns and pointless ‘information’ ads? Through a lamington drive????

    • Andrew says:

      01:32pm | 23/06/10

      Oh Alic C, the “but he did it first defence”.

      I don’t accept that from my kids, why should we accept it from Labor. Particularly when the fearless leader said (as a rolled gold promise) he would stop it because it was a “cancer on society”.

      That has to be up there with “greatest moral challenge of our time” as Rudd lie to live by.

      How embarassing for you!

    • AliceC says:

      03:51pm | 23/06/10

      No Andrew, what I am saying is that is how it works. Any political party who is in power uses public funds to advertise their cause. You can’t say it’s appropriate for one party to do this, but not ok for the other.

      “All campaign ads for Labor at the next election, all paid for by taxpayer money. Have they no shame?” Yes, as all elections past, present, and future will be funded with taxpayer money.

    • British VAT rise= Labor Spending says:

      03:51pm | 23/06/10

      WARNING off Topic,,As Kev and his spendthrift mates sit around the kitchen table thinking how to backflip on mining tax ripoff to repay outrageous debt and save face(not possible) they will monitor very closely the reaction to the upping of the British version of our GST the VAT.Desperate to get cash from somewhere they will introduce a rise in GST by 5% if they are relected,It would help fund handouts and $370 bil previously squandered

    • Jacob M says:

      04:47pm | 23/06/10

      British VAT rise= Labor Spending I appreciate the input but this is Australia, we don’t have the same debt or problems Britain has. Perhaps you would be better commenting on the GB punch

    • Michael says:

      07:16am | 23/06/10

      Typical ALP response from Roxon - go for the personal cheap-shot when you have nothing better to say. For all her rhetoric, she’s got a pathetic record as health minister. Where’s “the biggest reform since Medicare”? Still waiting.

    • Nicole says:

      09:11am | 23/06/10

      I’m with you Michael. By attempting to belittle Abbott, she’s only trying to cover her own uselessness. She was so bad yesterday, almost rabid, I just wanted to slap her. As for this stupid E Health, it’s an absolute invasion of privacy and I for one don’t want it. This incompetent Government has to go.

    • persephone says:

      09:56am | 23/06/10

      Nicole

      ehealth is optional, just for that reason.

      And come on, mountain out of molehill, much? One throwaway phrase (which happens to be factual) and the Libs froth at the mouth.

      Yet almost daily they trot out insults about the PM which are far worse and less warranted.

    • Nicole says:

      11:07am | 23/06/10

      Mountain out of a molehill Pers? No, I don’t think so. Any chance the ALP can get, they use Abbott’s religion, or personal beliefs in an attempt to shoot him down, and that was clearly Ms Roxons agenda yesterday. And when it comes to the insult department, Rudd wins hands down. Barnaby Joyce named Rudd so well when he called him a psycho chook. He’s such an angry little man. Fits perfectly.

    • CSallen says:

      11:23am | 23/06/10

      Persephone- We all know you love the Labor government allmost blindly but please, please do not defend NSW Labor.
      The bring your party down constantly and they are a bunch of incompetents run by a figure head premier that does nothing but (apparently) look nice.
      The whole world would be a much better place if they go at the next election in NSW.
      Even if Liberal don’t win- a bunch of otters would run the state better and inject some much needed reform into NSW health.
      Fancy short-handing Mona Vale and Frenchs Forest (planned) hospitals just because they haven’t won a seat north of the harbour in years.
      NSW Labor has been far too short sighted for years and needs to go.

    • LifeofY says:

      12:22pm | 23/06/10

      Nicole,
      Abbott’s religions and personal beliefs are an issue, and should be brought up and discussed by voters.
      He claims he doesn’t let this things guide him with his politics, but it is impossible to separate them (Abortion and RU486).
      As someone who is running in an election which will elevate him to the most powerful position in the country, and will put him on the world stage with leaders like Obama, everything he thinks and believes need to be disclosed and considered by voters.
      Hence Rudd gets hammered daily for everything he says and does. Goes with the job.

    • JR says:

      12:51pm | 23/06/10

      Lifeofy
      Rudd has never attested that his views on abortion are any different to Abbotts.

    • antiperspirant says:

      01:11pm | 23/06/10

      I wonder what would happen if Abbott was Muslim, or Buddist, C of E, Presbyterian and the list keeps going.

      Seems it is OK to vilify Catholics in this country for some reason. It really has me stumped to be honest how they get away with it.

      I do also recall Kevvie giving the odd interview “front and centre” outside, let me tell you this, a church on more than one occasion.

      You know what people, know let me tell you this, does it seem like double standards and playing a negative campaign which Albanese claims the government won’t.

      All a diversion from the failings of the non policy.

    • Jezabel says:

      01:22pm | 23/06/10

      What abour Rudd’s religion?? Or is his little churchside chats with the media all for show…..“What Me?? A nasty fouled mouthed tyrant?? Never….fair shake of the sauce bottle chaps….I go to church!”

    • Nicole says:

      01:38pm | 23/06/10

      Exactly Jezabel. Would someone care to tell me why Rudd is never ridiculed for his religious beliefs? Why isn’t he asked the same questions as Abbott in relation to abortion? How about sex before marriage? Or is his show at church each Sunday purely for the photo opp? Hmmm, makes you wonder hey?

    • Rob r Charteris says:

      02:05pm | 23/06/10

      Nicole says:01:38pm ; Its simple Nicole, Kev doesn’t go around pushing his religious ideals on sectors of the electorate like Abbott does. Its just not a good look for our type of seperation of church and state governance. If Kev did then he too would be open to ridicule. And where is your proof Kev sets up photo op outside of his church, I think you and your mate Jezabel need a reality pill

    • Moggy says:

      02:13pm | 23/06/10

      Rob Charteris….Rudd doesn’t push his religious beliefs on us because he doesn’t have any. His church going is all for show,  and photo opportunities. He is an empty, plastic fraud. I am ashamed I voted for this hollow man.

    • Luke says:

      02:23pm | 23/06/10

      LifeofY - Hypocrisy by Rudd:
      Kevin Rudd says he is pro-family, and, as an Anglo-Catholic Christian, he would oppose abortion.
      Kevin Rudd voted to allow RU486 to be made available in Australia for non-surgical abortions:
      Rudd also says - “Well having just voted for RU 486…”

      - Kevin Rudd, Interview with Julia Baird, ABC, March 5, 2006.

    • Nicole says:

      03:16pm | 23/06/10

      @Rob r, I don’t have any reality pills. Will you share yours?

    • Roja says:

      05:45pm | 23/06/10

      Errr, hello??  What are you people on?  We are talking about Tony Abbott, the man who puts his own religious beliefs before that of his constituents? You do realise they had to take him out of the Health portfolio so that they could legalise RU486 as per the wishes of the majority of the Australian people.

      You do realise that politicians are meant to represent their electorate and not push their own personal agenda.  When in Cabinet, that electorate covers all Australian people.

      That is the issue people have with Abbott, to go wah wah wah about Rudd is actually highlighting that as a leader he puts his responsibility to the Australian people first.  So he has shots in front of Churches, media management is all part and parcel that is the bullshit known as politics. 

      That would be the same media management that has Abbott not appearing in front of churches, nor anywhere for that matter and not speaking to anyone to ensure that his popularity can rise.

    • centurion48 says:

      08:26am | 23/06/10

      Health reform by this Labor government is no better than their reforms in all other portfolios. Start off with grandiose, big picture plans but no substance and then whinge that they cannot get the reforms through parliament, or past recalcitrant state premiers, or those obstructionist, billionaire miners.
      The devil is in the detail but none of their plans has any detail.

    • dovif says:

      08:38am | 23/06/10

      Quite simply, like most things the ALP Goverment does, it is more spin and little substance

      All you have to look at is how the state ALP have treated health and find out what the future is going to be like, if you are in NSW, the following example is what we have had and what we can look forward to.

      http://blogs.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/suedunlevy/index.php/dailytelegraph/comments/can_anyone_rescue_our_basket_case_hospitals/

      As for the federal take over of health, knowing the inability of the ALP government to manage cost and spend our money cost-effectively (ie Insulation, School building, hand outs etc) We have no prove that they will be competant in handling health either.

    • Joan says:

      08:41am | 23/06/10

      Labor takes a cheap religious toned shot against Abbott at every opportunity- Chris Bowen on Fran Kelly`s RN show this morning used Jesus`s name in an attempt to denigrate Abbott ETS stance. Enough is enough - Christians of Australia should not tolerate Labor using religion as cheap shots instead of real politcal argument ie scientific arguments for ETS and health outcomes for Health. If Labor can’t show a bit of respect to Christians, Christians should turn their backs on Labor and vote for Abbott or other that does.

    • Fr John Fleming says:

      08:56am | 23/06/10

      Joan, I completely agree with you.  When secularist politicians use religion to attack another politician, their hypocrisy should be exposed.  Why should a politician stop being who they are when they enter politics.  Atheists and other secularists shamelessly rely on their own personal religious views in making policies.  Catholics will be influenced by moral teaching which is based upon the natural law.  Secularists see no harm in ‘imposing’ on society their view about abortion, marriage, gay issues, and the rest.  Sectarianism hasn’t re-entered Parliament.  It has always been there.  Only today it is fashionable among the bien pensants to imagine that sectarianism is OK while racism and sexism is not.  Some consistency please!

    • Joan says:

      09:57am | 23/06/10

      Fr John Fleming thanks for you comment. I do believe Christians in marginal seats in particular should exercise their voting power on behalf of those in the rest of Australia- this is the only way to get a bit of respect Mr Rudd though he attends Sunday service regularly obviously condones these cheap religious toned shots as they are on an increase ,  they come with total nasty intent and with disrespect to Christians.

    • Andrew says:

      11:09am | 23/06/10

      I must agree with what is written here. I am not a particularly religious or spiritual person but I do have a great deal of respect for people (particularly educated people) who do have that faith.

      I frankly don’t understand why Mr Rudd is allowed to go to church and that is seen as a positive thing but if Tony Abbott goes to Church he is labelled a mad monk. His views, particularly on freeedom of choice are in fact not anywhere as hardline as the mainstream catholic church however he is constantly painted as a religious extremist. Frankly it is disgusting. Imagine the outcry from catholics if the Pope’s (more hardline) views were denigrated and ridiculed in such a way.

      A few points:
      Firstly, when did it become unfashionable for our leaders to be men of faith. There is no indication Abbott has ever failed to seperate church and state.

      Secondly, what sort of national and in fact international outcry would their be if Tony Abbott was a muslim and the media and the Labor party treated his faith with such ridicule. I doubt it would take very long for some Ayottollah somewhere to issue a fatwah.

      Abbott is to be congratulated for his forebearance in what has been a disgusting display of bigotry. I hope every person of faith, whether they be christian, jew, muslim, hindu or whatever else, recognise this media and labor party attack as an attack on all people of faith.

    • LifeofY says:

      12:27pm | 23/06/10

      I have no problems with Tony being a man of faith.
      I have a problem when the man who is trying to get himself elected to the most powerful position in the country, and will stand on the same world stage as leader like Obama, lets his religion guide his politics.
      I would be happy to read about his other policies, except, as he has said himself, he’s laying low. No policy releases makes it very hard to judge him on anything new.
      At the moment he’s relying on people voting for him just because they don’t like Rudd. That’s lazy voting and weak campaigning.
      Give me your policies Tony, let me learn how you want to run the county. Come out of the party room and talk to reporters!

    • Andrew says:

      01:08pm | 23/06/10

      LifeofY:

      1. Show me where Abbott’s religion has guided his politics. Unlike the Labor party the LNP aren’t actually run by one person. Policy is formulated by the party.

      2. Are you kidding. “Show me your policy” go on I dare you. Be realisistic no opposition announce policy so far in advance of an election. To do so would invite the government of the day to take all the good bits and claim it as their own (see KRudd 2007 - Howard Lite anyone?)

      3. Standing on the world stage with leaders like Obama??? That might be what KRudd wants to do but I’d like a PM who thinks of Australia first and their “position” on the world stage second. And frankly on the owrld stage Rudd is a limpet attached to a minnow (locked out of the big boys room at Copenhagen, the schoolyard nerd once again).

      4. As for Obama he is currently looking at an approval rating of 47% (11% below the long term average for presidents in their 6th quarter and 22% of his high of 69% last year). Sound family? Big promises, no delivery, blame everyone else. See yah!

    • Leila says:

      01:26pm | 23/06/10

      In denigrating Christians the Labor party are not only insulting Christians they are also insulting Moslems because Moslems see Jesus as one of God’s prophets. It’s time to cut out these religious attacks because it smacks of sheer desperation.

    • Dom says:

      02:26pm | 23/06/10

      @Andrew,
      I agree totally with your point 1.  ” Show me where Abbott’s religion has guided his politics?”  Take refugees.  I’m Catholic ( the church- attending variety) and the faith I grew up in (and the sermons I hear) don’t advocate getting tough, Pacific solutions and money over humanity solutions.

    • dovif says:

      03:37pm | 23/06/10

      Dom

      I keep hearing the “left” talk about the banning of boat people as a bad thing

      However, I have never heard one of them say anything about
      a. Boat people dying at sea
      b. Refugees left in Indonesia, because they do not have money to pay smuggler to jump the line to Australia.

      The best solution in my opinion is to ban all boat people, ie they will never get to Australia, then take the refugees from Indonesia… with the money we saved, we can probably afford to accept more refugee. Quite simply the weakening of boarder protection under Rudd, had led to more death at sea and poor refugees spending more time in Indonesia. If you really cared about the refugees, you would have been fairer on this topic

    • Roja says:

      06:36pm | 23/06/10

      I have no problem with Abbott being Catholic, the problem I have is that as Health Minister it determined his decision making rather than guided it.  Shortly I have to make a decision on do I help him become leader of Australia.  I am well within my rights to be hesitant about that decision based on his track record.  That said I agree targetting Abbott for being Catholic is uncalled for, as is the character assassination going on here (Andrew labelling Rudd a ‘schoolyard nerd’ is hardly Christian, perhaps he should form a support group for schoolyard bullies).

      The fact is, every Oz & US politician with leadership aspirations now falls over themselves trying to prove they are devout Christians (Abbott, Rudd, Obama, Bush, Howard) as they know that is not necessarily a vote winner - but not being Christian is definitely a vote loser. 

      In Oz this stemmed from the party where religion and politics have become entwined but they work ever so hard to deceive that it hasn’t, Family First.  Thankfully they were found out by their non evangelical constituents who were shut out of any chance of power in the party, with Fielding to be gone in the next election.  To put that in perspective, I respect Fred Nile and his Christian Democratic Party as they are honest about what and who they are. 

      Oh and sorry Father Fleming, secularists are not ‘imposing’ their views on abortion and gay marriage upon you - they are allowing those that choose it to make that decision.  Unless you have been forced to have an abortion, or marry a man, there has been nothing imposed on you at all.  Perhaps you should just turn the other cheek to those that think it’s ok.

      In the words of some great Australian bards, that being TISM… “I might agree with Jesus, but I have no religious beliefs”. 

      When Christianity can finally agree on one version, to be followed by all, I might come around.  Get back to me when it happens

    • Sludger says:

      08:45am | 23/06/10

      Does anyone actually believe there was ever going to be a health reform?  Come on!  It was all smoke and mirrors for the cameras.  Meanwhile the mentally ill in this country are having more and more taken away from them and nobody cares.  Mental health is not a “sexy” illness and most people don’t want to know.  But you won’t get answers from Labor, all you will get is personal attacks and that inane schoolyard chant accusing “Phoney Tony” of somehow being responsible.  Just as a side note; when we go to the polls next, could we please have some grown-ups running for a change?

    • jack says:

      09:13am | 23/06/10

      like all you gutless liberals who were in goverment for twelve years and included your leader as health minister, the liberals did nothing and left the system for some else to fix, but typical of you lot sling off at somebody that is trying to fix the problem.
      Just look at abbotts budget speech already he stopping medical centres

    • Luke says:

      10:43am | 23/06/10

      Jack - You have already had your retribution on the Liberals for not performing, you voted them out of office.  It is now time for the current Government to be under the microscope, not as Roxon keeps parroting the “previous Governments”. Time to move on, it’s been almost 3 years, Roxon and the Rudd Government should be the focus. Living in the past will not change anything.

    • Mick! says:

      09:01am | 23/06/10

      Sectarian hatred and distrust died in Australia around 1960, although it still lives with some bigots in this country. It is a dangerous game for the government of the day to fan the embers for political advantage.  It just might catch fire.

    • persephone says:

      09:09am | 23/06/10

      Leo

      read this a couple of times and fail to see why you say Roxon is in trouble on health.

      Firstly, there’s more investment in mental health by this Federal government than by any previously. No, it’s not enough, and more needs to be done, but there are few instant fixes in life or politics.

      I take it that - to be perfectly consistent - those above who are complaining that not enough has been done, are wanting more money to be spent in this area?

      If so, they had better not be voting for the Coalition at the next election, as they have no plans for health beyond cutting the budget.

      Secondly, the reforms are proceeding without WA. It doesn’t seem to be causing any particular problems, it just means WA won’t get the Federal funding that other states are getting. If they think that’s a fair trade for keeping their GST revenue, that’s their choice.

      And yes, guys, you’ll wait a bit to see any major changes to health. The legislation hasn’t even gone to Parliament yet!

      I know we’re all accustomed to instant gratification, but it doesn’t happen in a system as complex as health.

      And yes, Andrews was way over the top.

    • Nicole says:

      09:35am | 23/06/10

      How’s that knitting going Pers? Everyday I’m more reassured that I’m not going to need that cosy. It’s going to be a great memento though. smile

    • Andrew says:

      10:59am | 23/06/10

      Pers. “And yes, guys, you’ll wait a bit to see any major changes to health. The legislation hasn’t even gone to parliament yet!”

      Couple of points on that Pers:

      1. So why are we having the thinly veiled political (information) campaign shoved down our throat at our cost?

      2. WTF has Roxon been doing for 3 years.

      Is it just me or does anyone else see the Labor strategy as:
      Pre election announce something big (“WE WILL FIX HEALTH”)
      Get elected
      Form a committee
      Wait wait wait
      Hope pressure is put on to do something
      When pressure is put claim you had no time because you were busy saving as all from the GFC (should read, putting us all in debt)
      When that doesn’t wash, quickly announce a policy without consultation
      Browbeat premiers, when that doesn’t work bribe them.
      Say its all in or nothing then say its ok for W.A. to be out.
      Announce major reform that is false or doesn’t happen for another 5 years.
      Hope everyone is dumb enough to believe you’ve done something about health.
      Hope it gets through the election.
      At every point blame the opposition for the failure of health even though it is state labor gov’ts that have screwed the pooch.
      If all else fails tell everyone the tony abbott wouldn’t look out of place in the spanish inquisition.

    • Ryan says:

      11:25am | 23/06/10

      @persephone: “Firstly, there’s more investment in mental health by this Federal government than by any previously. ”
      Wow I wonder why the chairman of the National Advisory Council on Mental Health, Professor John Mendoza resigned then?

    • John says:

      11:40am | 23/06/10

      Pers, if more than one of the mainstream media are to be beleived , the investment came from the previous government and it’s labor taking the credit for it.

    • dovif says:

      03:45pm | 23/06/10

      Andrew

      sorry you are wrong

      Federal ALP like the NSW ALP works in the following manner

      Promises, promises, promises before the election.
      do nothing for the next 90% of the term
      at the last 10% promises promises, promises, releases transport blueprint, a few more voter friendly measure ie increase super, take over health
      Once reelected… do nothing, do nothing

      This is the blueprint, this works, because when the ALP is ever required to do something
      The send stimulus cheques to US, UK, Asia etc to stimilate their economy
      They completely stuffed up the insulation, will lots of homes on fire
      They completelt stuffed up the school building scheme, we could probably have got twice the amount of buildings then we received

      It is much better to overpromise and then underdeliever after the election… they can always promose more later

    • Freeman says:

      07:34pm | 23/06/10

      Persephone, basically your argument is that if labor can convince
      everyone that they have a slightly better health policy than the libs than they’ve done their job. Wrong, Leo is right in what he says as Health is traditionally accepted as a strength for ALP but now people are questioning the proposed “reform” that does little except give the federal goverment some control over the GST and the state goverments an excuse for their failing hospitals.

      “I take it that - to be perfectly consistent - those above who are complaining that not enough has been done, are wanting more money to be spent in this area?”

      no persephone, it’s not all about cash and that is what labor don’t get. they only ever talk in terms of $ and not strategy. they love announcing
      great big spending increases but fail to put their strategy into detail and the perception is that it largely gets wasted. Labor is seen as reckless with public money.

    • julie says:

      09:10am | 23/06/10

      the word ‘reform’ is being bandied about a lot by this govt lately. Half of it is only on paper, yet to be put into action, half gets totally ignored ie Henry tax review.  I’m not buying it.  Oh wait,  I am ‘buying’ it through these stupid ads arent I? 
      And they are definitely campaign type ads. Another contradiction about the so called cancer of $ funds into govt ads .... what is the term when bullshit is so transparent?  On the nose alright.

    • Luke says:

      09:27am | 23/06/10

      This line from Roxon continually saying “the previous Government” as an excuse every time she is questioned about anything regarding her Health portfolio is wearing thin. She has been Health Minister for almost 3 years, her excuse of comparing herself to the “previous Government” is not answering sort after questions about herself and her portfolio. Stop using the “previous Government” to avoid answering questions Roxon. You are in the drivers seat now not “the previous Government” It’s you in question, get it?????

    • iansand says:

      10:44am | 23/06/10

      Deal.  Tell the Liberals to stop raising the Whitlam bogeyman (remember the last election campaign?)

      I am no fan of Whitlam or Labor, but I am even less keen on campaign hypocrisy.

    • antiperspirant says:

      01:20pm | 23/06/10

      “I am no fan of Whitlam or Labor, but I am even less keen on campaign hypocrisy.”

      I give you Albanese….

      “ANTHONY ALBANESE: Well, we’re relying upon our positive agenda. We’re not relying upon the fact that Tony Abbott is a huge risk to our economy, that he’s a huge risk to national security, that he has a team, including - I mean, Warren Truss is the alternative Deputy PM of this nation. We’re not relying upon that, ...”

      Do we need to mention the blame game?

      The coalition never said anything about the blame game, never siad anything about advertising dollars, never said they would be positive (or negative),.

      You sort of see in the juxtapositionong the Coalition does not

      1. Make grand statements without facts and pump up a proble, say global warming or hospitals.

      2. Over promise - read that as lie - to fix it.

      3. Come up with a plan that is either hastily implemented (Batts anyone) that fails or a plan that will never work or they run from, like the ETS or hospitals that is PERHAPS going to happen in the future. You know do nothing now to save the next poll like a deal with Telastra that is a shambles before it signed.

      4. Realise after the horse has bolted they stuffed up like Gillard and the BER

      5. Throw countless billions at it to “fix” it. And when it is hopeless backflip, lie and spin. See anything mentioned above as examples.

      Keep that in mind ian when you judge hypocrisy. I think we know who the real hypocrite is.

    • dead to me says:

      09:51am | 23/06/10

      Health care has been a failure under the Rudd/Roxon leadership. They should have had a game plan from day one. No waiting around till there was pressure to do something. Rudd still hasn’t delivered on his promise for the federal government to take over 100% of health. Or was that a lie?

    • DC says:

      10:47am | 23/06/10

      And yet, a former Health Minister, Tony Abbott, still hasn’t been able to provide us with details of his Health Policy.

      Hell, let’s just take a few steps back and think about what Tony Abbott actually did as Health Minister.  ... ... ... ... hmmm - well, he managed to insult Bernie Banton, and then he ... ... ... what did he do?

      Well, he did get around to implementing the PET Scanners - but only after a big delay and when the media started turning nasty, John Howard had to kick him into action.

      Then there was the Gardasil vaccinations - another delay - until the media started turning nasty and John Howard AGAIN had to step in and force Tony Abbott to act.

      Tony Abbott was all talk and no action (well, at least until Howard kicked him up the bum) during his time as Health Minister, and even today, he still doesn’t have a clue about Health.

      What I do know is that under the Coalition Government, with Tony Abbott as Health Minister, queues continued to get bigger, while they threw money at Private Health (which the majority of Australians had to get rid of because it kept getting more and more expensive).

    • dovif says:

      03:49pm | 23/06/10

      DC

      you do know that Health is administrated by the state, hence Rudd’s takeover?

      For example KK’s NSW government cut spending to health last year, which is why the queues are longer ... so if you think Queue are longer you should start by blaming Labor

    • Zaf says:

      10:26am | 23/06/10

      That paragon of honesty, Kevin Andrews, defending Abbott’s record on women’s rights.  Enough said.  With friends like these, who needs friends?

    • Rob r charteris says:

      12:37pm | 23/06/10

      Kevin Andrews came off looking and sounding like an over heated boofhead, the bloke should retire. Perhaps he’s worried that the tide is turning against to opposition. Their big stands against things like RSPT and NBN are going to leave them out in the cold with no stick to shake. Looks like Abbotts been caught out lying again, and a lil forgetful too…. tsk…tsk. It will become very apparent shortly.

    • DC says:

      10:41am | 23/06/10

      “We are very proud of this record. Unfortunately, because the Leader of the Opposition let his personal views get in the way of good policy, that was something that he never supported.”

      The truth hurts.

    • Anjuli says:

      10:41am | 23/06/10

      If all else fails belittle your opponent ,this has been a Labor ploy since forever, Rudd is fond of having the cameras there every Sunday when leaving the church with his wife .Who cares what religion they are as long as they can run the country but this lot (this is what they call the opposition That Lot Over There).,are really failing they are the most divisive government we have had , in my view.

    • Rob r Charteris says:

      12:41pm | 23/06/10

      Anjuli says:10:41am; Yes your right, only the Liberals are allowed to do that….. give me a break. Why is it when the liberals get some back they squirm like little piggy’s, but then again no substance will do that to you.

    • antiperspirant says:

      01:22pm | 23/06/10

      Because Rudd and Albanese and the rest promise a “positive” agenda with no “blame game” politics.

      They promised it. They fail to live up to their word (yet again).

      They are hypocrites.

      See the difference? It really isn’t that hard.

    • Richard the Lionheart says:

      10:59am | 23/06/10

      Roxon and her sick grin reveals failure in all her portfolios. Health is a bottomless $ pit and no party can fix it while promises outstrip common sense. If the electorate want better medical/hospital care they have to pay for it like anything else. Don’t ever rely on Government for anything in the future. Save up for your old age and take out insurance.

    • Andrew says:

      11:34am | 23/06/10

      Unfortunately, that’s true. We can play partisan politics all we want but if you want a great health system you have to do two things.

      One, you have to make a very concentrated effort on prevention and education.

      Two, (shh, don’t say this to loudly), you have to raise the medicare levy to about 5%. It’s a fact. You want the best you have to pay for it.

      I pay private health, top cover for my family of 4. It costs about $400/month and of course I pay a medicare levy. Simple as that. If you don’t you are just asking for trouble.

    • Moggy says:

      01:43pm | 23/06/10

      So true Richard.  All people have to forgo to get health insurance & save for their old age is give up smoking , drinking booze, being obese & not exercising. I take care of my body & I loathe having to pay higher taxes to fund a health system that’s flooded with smoking & alcohol diseases, along with people being obese & unfit. People should take responsibility for their own stupid decisions & not expect everybody else to pay for them. But that’s socialism for you.

    • Jay says:

      11:38am | 23/06/10

      @ Fr John Fleming says:08:56am | 23/06/10

      “Atheists and other secularists shamelessly rely on their own personal religious views in making policies.”

      Atheism is not a religion.

      “Catholics will be influenced by moral teaching which is based upon the natural law.”

      And what natural law is that? Morality is not based on religion; it is a human construct of right / wrong.

      “Secularists see no harm in ‘imposing’ on society their view about abortion, marriage, gay issues, and the rest.”

      There is no imposition regarding these topics by secularists, rather they espouse the freedom of the individual to choose. Unlike the RCC enforcing hypocritical edicts.

      Me thinks you do not know of which you speak.

    • AliceC says:

      12:34pm | 23/06/10

      Hear hear Jay! : )

      Couldn’t have put it better myself.

    • Joan says:

      03:15pm | 23/06/10

      Jay Secularists like you are strident in presentation of views as any religious fanatic/zealot Richard Dawkins the most outstanding fantatic of the lot. You all sound as if you sing or chant from the same hymn book, concur in agreement , shake your heads in disbelief when a view does not fit your dead set principals. Secularists impose their ideas on society in the same way as any religious based group, and like any group your way is the right way, no different to   RCC or any other edict.

    • Jay says:

      03:48pm | 23/06/10

      How am I strident, Joan? When I just point out the truth in the form of facts? Your ignorance of Atheism is showing; if all you can do is say that Secularists are on par with religious fanatics / zealots. Along with the rest of the religious / spiritual imagery you try and paint Secularists with in your comment.

      As I pointed out earlier – there is no imposition of ideas on society by Atheists / Secularists – in fact there is more discussion and valuable discourse to be had by elevating any debate from a religious / spiritual base. But I see that your Jesus blinkers are well and truly welded on…

      Any edict based on superstition, Bronze Age goat herders stories, suppression of critical thinking and scientific method should be given the tolerance and respect they deserve – NONE.

    • Bryan says:

      11:44am | 23/06/10

      Roxon has and always will try and present as the harmless, hardworking female MP. Underneath that very thin layer of two facedness is a cunning and vindictive back room brawler that will do all in her power to chide and debase opposing MP’s (preferably behind the scenes or out of microphone range) to get the results that she requires.

      A passive aggressive atheist who has little tolerance or respect for a religious point of view, makes her the ideal attack dog for the likes of Abbott, Andrews or anybody else – on the Coalition side of politics – that dares to show their religious beliefs. It is fact that she has achieved very little in her portfolio and those with any real knowledge of Health matters will say exactly the same thing - unless of course they are indebted to the ALP side of politics.

    • Ray says:

      12:02pm | 23/06/10

      The Govt is long on promises but short of remedies for health. Given the Govt’s ineptitude in governing the country, e.g. home insulation disaster, grand funds waste in BER, virtual non-delivery of indigenous housing, voters would have to be absolute optimists, or should I say naive,  to believe that the Govt would implement an improved health scheme.

    • Jonno M says:

      12:55pm | 23/06/10

      Overall I have been very disappointed with Rudd I feel that there has been alot of promises but little to show. Or what has been put on show has been a disaster. But I am still willing to vote for Rudd at the next election to see what he can improve on and give him a chance. He hasnt been given a fair chance to implement the Henry tax review, ETS, to help those who where from the stolen generation with payouts, fix the insualtion scheme, stop the whaling by taking the Japanese to court, get the economy back into the black,  resolve the mining tax. another 3 years should sort it
      If he shows he doesnt improve it will be worse than Penrith in the last by election in NSW.

    • Andrew says:

      01:27pm | 23/06/10

      OMG, half of the issues you say he needs to fix are of his own making.

      Are you serious. Is your view “this guy has stuffed up so badly we’ve got to give him a chance to fix it, and if he doesn’t then we’ll get really really mad?” You do realise he’s the PM not a work experience kid who mucked up the coffee order.

      As for your list, the Henry review made over 100 recommendations, Rudd and Swan want to implement 2 of them so I don’t know what you’re on about there.

      As for the ETS, if we implement a carbon price without global or at least US co-operation we will simply make ourselves less competitive for no tangible global benefit.

      I have not heard a word about compo for the stolen generation from labor, please tell me where they even refer to it as policy or intended policy. I do know however that they have massively failed on their indigenous housing promises.

      A chance to fix the insulation scheme, that’s like getting the drunk driver who hit the pedestrian to perform the operation to save their life.

      Stop whaling… take Japanese to court.. gimme a break, thats a stunt. The could have gone to the int’l court 2 years ago, why do they need more time? Oh, and you do know the IWC is about to approve a resumption of whaling for non-scientific purposes (strictly quota controlled of course hehehe) so how will Krudd sue them then.

      Get the economy back in black. Um, little like putting the person who maxed out your credit card in charge of paying it back (oops, not a little like its exactly the same).

      Resolve the mining tax, well that’s part of your Henry Tax review point, this government is not going to resolve it, they will back down on it and claim it was a negotiated resolution. Mark my words the capital markets have long memories, fund flows will remain low or very careful whilst ever labor is around.

      Frankly your opinion convinces me compulsory voting is a crime.

    • BM says:

      01:33pm | 23/06/10

      Persephone. There was a time when I read your blind ALP praise and took pleasure in the having a quiet chuckle to myself during my break at work…However this time have passed. It’s no longer interesting, to say it’s boring is giving you credit I don’t believe you deserve. These comments are only interesting when people can come together to discuss issues in an open forum and actually take on board someone else view, you seem unable to do this.

    • Badger says:

      02:05pm | 23/06/10

      Mr Sheen ( KRUDDIE) has run out of fluid in the can, and is just making a mess of all he Sprays his Ideas on in an effort to redeem himself.
        Go home and live off your wife, and stop Spending “,WASTING”, MY MONEY soon pretty please.( Tongue in Cheek)

    • Robert S McCormick says:

      04:28pm | 23/06/10

      At the risk of being labelled a “sexist, chauvinistic bastard” we have only got to look back a bit. The Rudd government is always looking back if only to try & score cheap political points.Though undoubtedly intelligent, decent people both Joan Kirner & Carmen Lawrence were both abject failures as Premiers of Victoria & WA. In the current Rudd Government Penny Wong & Nicola Roxon are no different to Joan & Carmen.Scratch the surface & we will find Tanya Plibersek & St Julia (the alleged future saviour of the ALP) are no different. Roxon quite deiberately refused to address practically all the reasonable questions put to her by Kerry O’Brien on the 7.30 Report. Either she is totally out of touch or simply hasn’t got a clue as to what is going on within the department she is supposed to be in charge of. The appalling tragedy that is Australia’s Mental Health is almost emtirely down to the ALP. Why? because the vast majority of this country is rulled by ALP Governments, Federal, State & Territory. What did Roxon do with the reported cut of over $300 millions to Mental Health as mentioned in the 7.30 Report? Roxon simply ignored that question. There is no Health Revolution, just as there is, except for rorted, over-priced Julia Gillar Memorial Halls, no Education Revolution. A large part of that was “Computers for EVERY child” Almost no computers and those who have got them are reported as claiming they can’t afford to run them!!! Nice one, St. Julia. Roxon’s Health Revolution has fallen flat. It can’t succeed if WA won’t join in & give the.parasitic, wasteful, money-squandering,profligate Rudd ALP Federal Government one third of it’s GST revenue. WA has said it won’t & nor should it. Nor should any of the other States & Territories give any of theirs.Ironic isn’t it? The ALP which was so vehemently opposed to the GST now wants to steal it & use it for it’s Left-wing Socialist plans!
      Exactly what is the amount of debt, that is money borrowed from that super-wealthy, pseudo-Developing Nation, we call China & other countries, have Rudd & Swan created? How much interest is being added on a daily, if not hourly, basis?
      History does repeat itself. The ALP’s Policy of “Borrow till we bankrupt the nation”  just goes on & on & on. We did not like him & many of his policies but we have to hand it to the Howard Government that, hard and all as it was, they did settle all the debts created by the ALP’s irresponsible Paul Keating whilst he was Treasurer & Prime Minister.

    • Chris says:

      04:30pm | 23/06/10

      And perhaps it is also time to acknowledge that Labor does not have a monopoly on health issues…a little research and Laborites might start to feel quite uncomfortable about their party’s record on health. The Coalition record is not good but there is hard statistical evidence to show that they have at least an equal and sometimes better record in most areas. Sad isn’t it?

    • persephone says:

      07:03pm | 23/06/10

      Chris

      umm, yeah.

      So the Coalition’s record isn’t good and in some areas of health Labor is better.

      And it only took a little research to find this out.

      Well hit me over the head with a wet lettuce leaf and call me Roger, if that isn’t the most hard hitting argument I’ve heard in a long time.

    • Mark says:

      07:04pm | 23/06/10

      Roxon and the rest of the labor government use the lowest form of argument. When you have nothing good to say about yourself, tell everyone how bad your competitor is so you look better. Not going to work this time as they have shown their incompetence knows no boundaries. It just shows they have no clues and no real plan so all they can resort to are cheap shots. Incompetent goats

    • DD Ball says:

      10:12pm | 23/06/10

      The ALP are not concerned with health. They just want 30%. Let Rudd have the 30% .. there, don’t you feel better?
      I recall, at the time, soon after the ALP achieved government in SA and Tassie under questionable circumstances that these states supported this appalling deal. But then it has nothing to do with health, unless you measure health by the size of ALP pork barrels.

    • Against the Man says:

      07:19am | 24/06/10

      Roxon is incapable of doing a good job. Is health care fixed? Australians are always worse off under a labor government.

 

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