Labor points behind but finally kicking with the wind

Shane From Melbourne says:

05:38am | 28/10/11

@AtM- How can Gillard be responsible for all of her MAJOR screw ups if Bob Brown and Wilkie are the real PMs of this country?
Obviously logic isn’t your strongest trait…...

acotrel says:

06:22am | 28/10/11

@ATM
‘Remember those immoral high fives’
The LNP are such BAD LOSERS ! ! 
And it was so good to see Julia shag them !

Nathan says:

06:58am | 28/10/11

I cannot wait for Abbott to get in. It will be great, he won’t do anything unless there is a vote in it for him, only ever takes the popular stance (and that is only who ever is in front of him) and has no morals what so ever as he would “give his ass to be pm”....is that the type of man you want leading? 

The problem with most the conservatives here is that you are so unbalanced in views. Labor are gone for sure and have screwed up some policies but its hardly the end of the world preached on here
A few fun facts for you
1. Climate change is most likely real and not some big conspiracy (don’t listen to people who have no scientific back ground fyi. Alan Jones is allot of things but not a scientist)
2. Compare our economy to the rest of the world and we are in a good position. And yes the surplus did help and to those who say we shouldn’t compare ourselves to the rest of the world its called a global economy
3. A education and health care system was inherited in a bad position because funding was cut don’t expect that to change under LNP
4. A surplus is not the be all and end all, running a deficit in times to stimulate an economy is actually a tool that can be used to manage the economy.

I realise that the majority of people will go me about what i have said, i don’t mind arguing and listening to facts but calling me a communist bastard is not an argument.

acotrel says:

07:23am | 28/10/11

@Nathan
You ARE obviously a ‘communist bastard’.  Doncha know it’s only all about grabbing power, and nothing as sensible as all the good things you’ve mentioned ?
George Pell for Fuhrer ! ! ! - YAY ! !

TimB says:

07:29am | 28/10/11

Here’s some fun facts for you too Nathan.

1. Regardless of whether climate change is real or not, a carbon tax (or price if you want to be pedantic) levied by us won’t make a difference. And it’s ludicrous that we aren’t pursuing nuclear power.

2. No, we should be comparing our economy to what it should be. We should be doing much better than we are.

3. Most problems with education and health can be sheeted home to the the ineptitude of the state governments- Which until very recently have been dominated by the ALP.

4. Running a deficit is only useful if the money in question is being used wisely. I would contend that it has not been. Instead it’s just a waste.

Erick says:

07:37am | 28/10/11

@Nathan - “he won’t do anything unless there is a vote in it for him, only ever takes the popular stance (and that is only who ever is in front of him) and has no morals what so ever as he would “give his ass to be pm”....is that the type of man you want leading?”

No, but it IS the type of woman we already have leading.

acotrel says:

07:52am | 28/10/11

@TimB
Here one ‘fun fact’ for YOU !  Most of the arguments you’ve just put up as ‘facts’ are fallacious, and clearly just inventions on your part ! Claiming that our economy should be even better than it is, is simply clutching at straws.  It didn’t matter what the stimulus was spent on, as long as the money circulated, and business confidence was maintained. - A ‘FACT’ which had been clearly lost on Hockey, Truss, and Joyce ! They talked the economy down for political gain at the precise moment opur stock market was taking a big hit.  I’m a self-funded retiree - why would I notice that ?? HMMM?  Keep a muzzle on those fools !

Don says:

08:04am | 28/10/11

I detest this current Labor line-up of ex union hacks pretending to be professional politicians . Amateur hour indeed .

Especially the “Carbon tax, refugee f@#k up,Super clinics etc” .
Is not the total private work employment of the whole lot, this is , working in private employment , almost zero , and still try to run government ?

Joan says:

08:28am | 28/10/11

Nathan: according to Henry Ergas today `` our 2011 structural budget deficit is twice Germany`s , a third larger than Italy`s and only a fraction smaller than France`s`. Just take a look at Europe and USA and see where deficits get you. Clueless Gillard praises Obama going nowhere policies of economic management. - Gillard on track set to ruin Australia with her Carbon Tax on everything.

TimB says:

09:14am | 28/10/11

“Here one ‘fun fact’ for YOU !  Most of the arguments you’ve just put up as ‘facts’ are fallacious,”

How so? Feel free to counter with an actual argument. You know, if you have one. And no your post doesn’t count because:

A) It does indeed matter what we spend stimulus money on. That’s the difference between useful investments and mere waste.

B) Abbott, Truss and Joyce do not have the massive influence over the economy that you attribute to them.

Economist says:

09:57am | 28/10/11

@TimB, in response

Point 1. I wasn’t aware the laws of supply and demand don’t apply with the carbon tax. That the consumption of taxed goods won’t fall with the price increase? AS for nuclear, as electricity generation accounts for less than a third of CO2 and the production of nuclear plants emits carbon and the delays in getting a plant up and running it may not be an economical approach. It’s been estimated that it would only reduce CO2 by 5%. But to counter that one has to wonder about the targeting of 500 companies in the policy many in electricity generation and effects, but I suppose this carbon tax in it’s current form is just the first step.

Point 2, Well please elaborate on what it should look like? Perhaps a lower debt level, but I’d argue inflation, interest rates and employment when examined holistically put us in a better position then pre-GFC when the economy was starting to overheat due to the bubble.

3. Agree with.

4. As for waste, that does depend on the individual, I know of many individuals in retail who acknowledge their jobs were saved, as with architects and builders. Also I’d argue the majority of schools appreciated their upgraded libraries. If I was a News shareholder, would I deem the Australian as a waste, given that I believe it’s cross subsidised by the tabloids? Should News only make Avatar 3,4,5 and 6 and drop all other film ideas given the potential for waste?

Blind Freddy says:

10:33am | 28/10/11

@TimB

I hope when you are accounting for the costs associated with nuclear power that you are including the cost of accidents at, and decomisioning of, nuclear power plants. Or is that just another case of socialised losses and privatised profits.

The cost to Japan’s GDP due to their recent accident is still being calculated.

Liberals like youself only want nuclear power because the Greens don’t. You don’t want “gay” renewable energy running through your Playstation you want “tough” nuclear energy.

TimB says:

10:45am | 28/10/11

@ Economist-

1. The whole point of the price is to reduce our emissions by 5%. Leaving aside the debate on whether or not this will be actually achieved, a 5% reduction for Australaia really accomplishes nothing.

As far as the nuclear question goes, isn’t this whole climate change issue based around the ‘long term’? If we completely replaced our coal plants with nuclear over the course of say the next 50 years, surely that would put a massive dent in our emissions (long term).  Not to mention providing a solid power base for any population increase, but I digress.

2. Yes it’s the debt position I allude to.  I think what the ALP achieved with the stimulus could have been achieved for much less money than it actually cost. Especially when you consider how much money has just been spent on fixing mistakes rather than proper surplus spending.

With economic rumblings coming from Europe and Swannie predicting a bleak outlook (playing down the return to surplus promise). I think we can all agree we wish our debt levels were better thus allowing us a better chance of riding out the next storm. And the fact is with a little more competence from Swannie and co, we could have had that better position.

3. Excellent! Please tell Acotrel. He seems to think I’m just making stuff up.

4. As I alluded to in point 2, I think that we should and could have got a much better deal for the cash that was thrown around. How many invoices and bills were inflated simply because the government was stumping up the cash?

I also think that the stimulus was poorly targeted. For example yes some schools like their new library. But what was the point of a second school hall? We could have kept those builders in a job by building some other things for those schools (or indeed elsewhere in the economy) that could have been far more useful.

loxy says:

10:47am | 28/10/11

Nathan I agree with you 100%!

TimB says:

10:52am | 28/10/11

Blind Freddy, give me a source of green energy that doesn’t cost a mint and can provide baseload effectively and I’ll happily sign up.

And speaking of Japan, how many deaths have we had from that yet? I’d say the bigger impact to Japan came from the earthquake and tsunami itself. Your scare tactics are asinine. I’m suprised you didn’t mention Chernobyl.

BTW not that it matters, but I don’t care what kind of energy is running through the Playstaion. I don’t want a Playstation, period.

Borderer says:

10:53am | 28/10/11

@Nathan
Why do you say Tony would do anything to get into power? Did he sell out his party? Backflip on a “No carbon tax under a government I lead”, bribe the greens with a 10 billion dollar fund, promise a pokie tax reform that was clearly not on the party’s horizon until they NEEDED to get into POWER. While you say he will do anything to get into power, you forget Julia HAS done everything to get into power.

PTom says:

10:57am | 28/10/11

TimB,  yes, we should not take any action on climate change because
Climate experts agree.

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/chilling-news-for-climate-sceptics-20111027-1mm5d.html

Besides Abbott plan will work better as it will cost us more and require more Public servants.

Blind Freddy says:

11:11am | 28/10/11

@TimB

I deliberately didn’t include the loss of life when refereing to the recent accident in Japan- because I know appeals to the wallet are more effective than appeals to the heart when debating Liberals. Sweet that you did- even though it was to deflect my original comment re the GDP.

You say that base load renewables cost a mint, and at the moment that is no doubt the case, but given that you (and your ilk) support the socialising of losses (costs of CO2 pollution and nuclear accident clean-ups) by not having them accounted for in the loss and profit balance sheets of the companies themselves- renewables will (for now) be more expensive.

Against the Man says:

11:46am | 28/10/11

Shane - Logic? I guess the concept of being a vessel for BB/Wilkie and being the one that created a government that gave them power needs to be explained to you. Maybe the less you comment the less dumb you will come across to everyone.

Acotrel - Oh gillard won? Yes, she is leading a majority government with her victory right? Now tell me which fake PM sold out Australia for power. If that is a victory than you have defined ALP ethics to a T

You ALPers are so full of crap. Gillard is toxic and has destroyed the ALP brand. NSW LAbor and their minority supporters were in denial till the end…...........looks like you guys are repeating history.

Same ol’ Labor…...............

Keith Hammersmith says:

12:42pm | 28/10/11

I just love all the labor cronies that harp on and on about Abott the will “do anything to become PM”  funny that the current PM sold her and her parties soles to the independents and greens for the same thing,  yet when it comes to the Malaysia deal,  Gillard doesn’t attack the greens over not signing, just Abott.

Steve says:

01:11pm | 28/10/11

Only Labor could turn a surplus into a debt and call it a good result.
Labor = poverty *
* except if you have a union credit card

James says:

01:35pm | 28/10/11

10/08/2010
KERRY O’BRIEN: More broadly on the economy, your campaign slogan focuses heavily on Labor debt. But Joe Hockey acknowledged at the Press Club on Monday that if the Coalition had been in government for the global crisis, you too would have had to run a deficit.

Debunked!
News just in the GFC did happen!

TimB says:

02:16pm | 28/10/11

No Freddy, you didn’t include those figures because you know full damn well that there has been *no* loss of life due to the plant accident.

Same argument for the GDP. The impact to Japan was not the incident at the nuclear plant. It was because of the mega-earthquake & tsunami.

Save your pathetic baseless scare tactics for the NIMBY fools. France has had a thriving nuclear industry for years. No issues. Cheapest electricity in Europe. We could have that too.

@ PTom, you’re arguing the wrong thing. I don’t care if AGW is proven beyond all doubt. Nothing Australia does will make a difference. Paticularly not this 5% garbage.

And yes I wish Abbott would drop his plan too, but at least his has the advantage of flexibility. Gillard & Brown insist on locking us into a suicide course.

Labor is Toxic says:

02:23pm | 28/10/11

@ Acotrel

“It didn’t matter what the stimulus was spent on, as long as the money circulated, and business confidence was maintained.” What a load of garbage!!!! All stimulus should have been spent on assets that were sellable, including real infrastructure and real housing ...... we could have ended homelessness in Australia, that is the truth!!! All these assets would then be on the Australian Balance Sheets and could have sold as we moved out of the GFC ... even at a loss!!!

At the end of 2007-08, Australia’s Total Assets and Total Liabilities were $276.7B and $205.5B.

At the end of 2010-11, Australia’s Total Assets and Total Liabilities were $320.4 and $415.8B.

So in three years, for the accumulation of $210.3B worth of Liabilities we have increased Australia’s assets by $43.7B. What fiscally immoral planet do you live on where a net loss of almost $170B is acceptable ..... what did they spend it on ...... air??? The $42B stimulus cost a little more that $42B don’t you think.

Let’s face it, if the $42B stimulus saved 100,000 jobs, we could have built a 400,000 house for each of these unemployed people and given it to them for free and saved $2B.

You know I am correct!!!

Timmie Tooltime says:

02:28pm | 28/10/11

TimB
” Here’s some fun facts for you too Nathan.”
  1. Opinion.
  2. Opinion
  3. Opinion
  4. Opinion.

It appears you wouldn’t know a fact if it jumped up on your shoulder and slapped you about the face screaming “I am a fact”

Lightweight.

Blind Freddy says:

02:43pm | 28/10/11

@TimB

You sure do give your straw men a beating- you missed me completely though.

andye says:

03:09pm | 28/10/11

@Nathan - “he won’t do anything unless there is a vote in it for him, only ever takes the popular stance (and that is only who ever is in front of him) and has no morals what so ever as he would “give his ass to be pm”

@Erick - “No, but it IS the type of woman we already have leading.”

How on earth can you possibly back this statement up? It is clearly the OPPOSITE of what is happening. Is passing the Carbon Tax a populist position?

Seriously, guy. You draw some long bows but this is a whopper.

Erick says:

04:51pm | 28/10/11

@andye - No, that’s Gillard “giving her ass” to be PM.

Ben says:

03:16pm | 29/10/11

I love it when the sheep trot out the ALP’s line that “we’re doing well compared to the rest of the world”. Assuming that ‘the rest of the world’ is comprised of the US and EU only, then maybe we are. If we look at the rest of the rest of the world (i.e.. Brazil, Russia, China, India, Indonesia, Korea, South Africa) we’re actually doing pretty ordinary, poorly even. As far as our economic region goes we’re the perennial under performers. But it’s ok. If I only compare the Newcastle Knights to the Gold Coast Titans and ignore the Melbourne Storm and the Manly Sea Eagles the Knights are a world beating rugby league side right?

acotrel says:

06:57am | 28/10/11

You must admit it’s pretty funny that every time the Labor Party tries to do something constructive, Tony Abbott says it won’t be effective. - The ‘carbon tax’ won’t affect climate change.  ‘Mandatory pre commitment’ won’t affect problem gambling.  The NBN is ‘a white elephant’.  It seems to me that simple minded naysaying isn’t really what a parliamentary opposition should be about ?
The three things I’ve mentioned are probably the most essential things any government could pursue at present.  I wonder what Abbott would do if he was PM ?  The alternatives he’s mentioned have all been pretty lame-brained so far ! He isn’t really such a good advertisement for the Cecil Rhodes Foundation !

Nathan says:

07:10am | 28/10/11

the Greens will still be there do you really think they will loose their supporter base i think not. Worst government getting an international economic management award????? little odd but that is ok ignore what doesn’t fit and believe what you want to hear.

Don’t know if you realise people don’t like abbot, he is ahead preferred but won’t be the longest serving PM and the pokie tax is not a masterstroke it will work against him. That happens when you just run your mouth with no thought.

When abbot doesn’t undwind all the things he is talking about will he be a liar in your eyes?  How about all the promises he made last election and came out that he couldn’t fund them.

TimB says:

07:18am | 28/10/11

““The ‘carbon tax’ won’t affect climate change. “

It won’t. And if you seriously believe it will, then there’s a line of neurologists eagerly waiting for a chance to examine your brain. They’re mystified as to how it functions.

BP says:

07:33am | 28/10/11

@alcotrel. Mandatory pre-commitment. Yes, lets punish the majority of responsible gamblers who can control their urges so that Andrew Wilkie can feel good about himself and Julia can stay in power. One step closer to the ultimate nanny state where everything we do is legislated for us.
NBN. If it looks like one and sounds like one then it probably is one, White Elephant that is. There are cheaper options that would deliver comparable service and not create another government monopoly. If it is so good why force Telstra to disconinue its other cable options? Surely people would see its benefits and change of their own accord?
Carbon tax. Correct, it won’t affect climate change. So what IS it about? Wealth redistribution? Raise revenue for a government that has no idea how to control its spending?
I would hardly classify any of these as “essential”. Introduced without a mandate and based on a pre-election lie, the carbon tax should be repealed. The fact the government is drafting the legislation such that doing so will cost the taxpayer money is an indictment against Labor, not the LNP. Same with NBN, building in clauses which lock future governments in is just plain wrong. I hope like hell to see your outrage on these pages when the next Coalition ggovernment take a leaf out of this mobs book and create legislation you and your ilk find equally offensive and lock it in so that it impossible to unwind.

acotrel says:

08:25am | 28/10/11

@TimB
So the debate about climate change, and the price on carbon, has come down to insinuating that anyone who believes the majority of scientists, is insane ?
Well that makes sense to me! -  Beam me up, Scotty !

Knemon says:

08:51am | 28/10/11

“another political masterstroke from our future longest serving PM”

LOL - Thanks for the laugh Super D…Robert Menzies was our PM for just over 18 years, do you seriously believe that the voters of Australia would keep someone like Abbott as PM for that long? If he is ever elected PM, and I still say that’s a big ‘if’ he would never be re-elected. One term wonder at best.

TimB says:

08:59am | 28/10/11

It has nothing to do with the science Acotrel. It has everything to do with the fact that a 5% reduction in Australian emissions will not make a single bit of difference to the climate. And you won’t find a single scientist who will claim otherwise.

So yes, if you disagree with the *proven fact* that the ‘carbon tax’ won’t affect climate change, then you are most definetly suffering from severe mental issues.

James says:

09:42am | 28/10/11

The next Coalition ggovernment take a leaf out of this mobs book and create legislation you and your ilk find equally offensive and lock it in so that it impossible to unwind.

Sounds like the precedent set by the LNP GST. Look what it did to beazley saying he would roll it back. Political suicide.

Joan says:

09:45am | 28/10/11

Acotrel: I don’t believe any scientist has proven that a Carbon Tax or ETS can change world climate.

acotrel says:

10:04am | 28/10/11

@Joan
‘Acotrel: I don’t believe any scientist has proven that a Carbon Tax or ETS can change world climate.’

Has Tony Abbott proved that it won’t ?  You are suggesting that a evidence based theory won’t work, even before it’s tested.
How many opportunities do you believe we have to do this, if the scientists are right ?

James says:

10:04am | 28/10/11

@Joan

Well the scientists are not economists!
Economists say that the market based system is the ....CHEAPEST.
Direct inaction, if Nick Minchin ever lets it happen, will cost the taxpayer a lot more.

Scientific consensus is saying 1 thing, the increasing amounts of CO2 in the atmosphere is warming the planet.

Super D says:

11:17am | 28/10/11

@James - A carbon trading system is by far the cheapest - if you assume that the rest of the world is participating in it.  That’s the key assumption and it is unlikely to occur any time in the next decade.

This means that a direct action program which can be expanded and contracted according to international developments and economic conditions is far far far superior.

Joan says:

11:26am | 28/10/11

Acotrel and James : Economists - just out for what they can get with doozey permits etc etc etc. Nothing cheap about ETS or carbon Tax and no proof that it will change world Climate - just a scam dressed up as good deeds to make some guys richer than others. Direct action the only real way to go - do it, means gets done,  a permit is a permit and no real evidence of getting anything done. .  Economists who can’t fix Europe or USA economies gonna change world climate with an ETS - a laugh a minute. Acotrel it is up to Gillard to prove Carbon Tax will change World Climate - she is the one telling Australians that her Carbon Tax will stop seas rising- she better tell us how her great tax will do this , she is the one foisting the tax on Australians - proof is up to her not Abbott. And to believe the cheap promise by Economists- a sucker born every day. - how about Economists tell us by how many degrees World Climate will change per dollar cost.?

Chris L says:

11:41am | 28/10/11

@BP - “lets punish the majority of responsible gamblers” - Are they being fined or detained? No, they’ll be required to decide how much they’re going to gamble before beginning. The only way this can count as a curb on people’s freedom would be on the freedom to change your mind and feed more money into the pokies. It doesn’t sound like such a hardship to me, but I’ll accept if you feel otherwise.

NBN actually looks (and sounds) like fibre optic cable which will allow vast quantity of signals to circulate at the speed of light. Wireless can do this on a smaller scale but as soon as the number of users starts to get large you run into interference. The experts in America are looking upon the proposed NBN with envy.

Gillard promised a carbon price on the eve before the election. If you missed it and voted for her expecting no action I don’t see how that’s her fault. Didn’t you notice Andrew Bolt on the eve of the election warning people that a Labor win would be considered a mandate for a carbon price?

“I hope like hell to see your outrage on these pages when the next Coalition ggovernment take a leaf out of this mobs book and create legislation you and your ilk find equally offensive and lock it in so that it impossible to unwind.” - As someone else pointed out it’s the Coalition that set the precedent for this. You also make yourself sound like someone who is less interested in policy than in having “your” side win.

James says:

11:46am | 28/10/11

@Joan

Get the snout out of the trough and think about it rather than rage

Promoting indirect inaction really doesn’t help your credibility.

Keith Hammersmith says:

01:00pm | 28/10/11

@Chris L “The experts in America are looking upon the proposed NBN with envy.”

No they aren’t.  The USA (many many more broadband users) are using private companies to fund future broadband networks, and wireless like 4g and beyond is what they are developing.  SO the united states with 350 million people believe that wireless is the future and your saying that our 20 million people will clog wireless up?
yeah ok…

Don't worry, we'll take you with us says:

02:05pm | 28/10/11

@Keith
Read it and weep.
“Australia has a better vision for broadband than the US - one that is being implemented today. Broadband industry leaders around the world are looking enviously to Australia. Vince Cerf, one of the founding fathers of the Internet recently said: “I continue to feel a great deal of envy because in the US our broadband infrastructure is nothing like what Australia has planned. The investment in fibre capacity will pay for itself over and over as new applications are developed that take advantage of it.” Larry Smarr, another US-based Internet pioneer recently said: “Obama’s push for improved wireless broadband access will be of great benefit to rural communities in the US. It is a step forward, but lacks the vision of the Australian NBN. By using an appropriate combination of wireless and fibre access, Australia will become the envy of the broadband world.”

Keith Hammersmith says:

03:12pm | 28/10/11

So quotes from 2 Americans now equals the “experts in America”, are looking at the NBN enviously?

Sorry mate,  there is a reason the US is not going down the path of government funded monopolies, and letting private companies come up with solutions, if you cant see that , then there isn’t much anyone can say.

Don't worry, we'll take you with us says:

03:42pm | 28/10/11

We’ll still take you with us in spite of your ignorance Keith.

If private companies were going to do it, it would have been done already and in typical conservative style they would have left regional Australia to “swing in the wind”

Wireless indeed. Do a little research, or better yet get someone who knows technology to explain it to you. It will be an eye opener, even for those with only one eye.

Keith Hammersmith says:

04:54pm | 28/10/11

I have done a little research, in fact I have done a lot of research.  Wireless tech is advancing at a furious rate.  Go ask your local IT guy to explain it to you.  I work in the IT industry, and no one ( thats not a single person) who i speak to in this industry thinks the NBN is a good deal.
But yes i can see why digging trenches and laying a direct line to everyone is very futuristic!  Its getting outdated as we speak. And laying this fiber to give regional Australia faster internet for the next few years (of course if they take it up,  which take-up rates have been very low) is not something i think is worth 46 billion dollars -  and thats 46 billion before Labor has the chance to stuff it up and watch costs blow out.

Don't worry, we'll take you with us says:

05:15pm | 28/10/11

Keith,
You may be in IT, but I bet you work in the mailroom.
Seriously, You have no idea about wireless.
My guess is you work for vivid or some other wireless provider and are just spreading lies to get more suckers on board.
A wireless solution that would work for Australia in the next decade would require an antenna on every street corner with fibre backhaul from the corner. The system would not work in inclement weather and the more people that use it, the slower it goes.
You really shouldn’t comment on things you don’t understand.

So, go ahead prattle on and make a fool of yourself.
I’m disconnecting your ridiculous rant.

Chris L says:

03:13pm | 29/10/11

“Its getting outdated as we speak” - Until we develop technology to move information faster than the speed of light that statement will remain complete rubbish. Wireless can accomplish the same speeds under optimal circumstances (as I already pointed out) but cannot, and will not forseeably ever, handle the same volume as fibre optics (as, again, I already pointed out). If you can refute these statements I have made I would be interested to hear it but until then don’t pretend you know how the technology works.

Michael says:

09:12am | 28/10/11

He is also saying he can’t see them getting any worse so clearly the only place they can go from here is up.

I guess by now the people that supported this Government are just trying to mitigate the drenching they are getting from having been pissing into the wind for 4 years

You can see this in the people that have stopped saying they support this Government and are now starting to chant about both sides are shit or Tony will be worse, you can’t believe them, as they said the current lot were going to be better than the previous Government, now that they have been proven wrong they can’t concede.

sandra says:

09:50am | 28/10/11

agree and I can see them getting worse—when the pokie machine legislation for mandatory precomitment—all Abbott has to say is alcahol will be next for the nanny state Govt!!!!  how many lives are ruined by alcahol and alcaholics, drink drivers , wife bashers etc—but NOOOOOOOO—that will not keep gillard in power. The cynical bastardy of this Wilkie pandering is breathtaking and MSM should be all over the hypocrasy like a rash but nooooooooooooo—they make it all about Abbott—who wants to tackle this issue after consultaiton with all involved - THEN making some decisions on how best to help the addicts. what is wrong with that??? And Wilkie never intended pulling his pin—even now he is shifting his sand box to keep the status quo

MarieM says:

12:06pm | 28/10/11

TimB
It’s not even standing still…. who was it that once said a “dead carcas swinging in the wind waiting to be cut down”? Keating i think? :

acotrel says:

07:27am | 28/10/11

@Brian Taylor
‘so the polls went up a couple of points, so what.’

Must be pretty shakey sitting up there in that tree ?
You have to admit that Tony’s popularity is waning?  Perhaps people are beginning to realise he’s full of it ?

Joan says:

08:35am | 28/10/11

`help Ms Gillard look more presidential `
laughed at that one - Gillard and Swan wagging fingers and stern words for Europe on finanacial management were a hoot- funnier than anything on Chaser ` Hamster Wheel`. As for CHOGM - sounds like some sort of bodily function after a boozy party to the man in the street.

Against the Man says:

11:54am | 28/10/11

She doesn’t have much discipline to lose some of that butt fat and walk straight. But why should she care, she has robbed the PM status of all morality and dignity.

Same ol’ Labor…..........

James says:

12:11pm | 28/10/11

Reminds me of Howard “playing” cricket hey ATM?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGqTayhu5QM

At least Gillard can catch.

Kevin McMahon says:

12:12pm | 28/10/11

Way to let Atm’s comment through moderators. It really added a lot to the debate.
Your moderation leaves a lot to be desired.
Best conversation indeed.

John A Neve says:

12:42pm | 28/10/11

AtM,
You must really be the original Ugly Australian. Repetitive, boring and without any rational thought. One can only hope you are impotent, you aren’t a pollie, are you?

Against the Man says:

05:30pm | 28/10/11

John A, seeing as you tend to post under various handles and go into hiding after a great Punch beat down, your comments are as worthy as Gillard’s promises.

John A Neve says:

11:38am | 29/10/11

AtM,
I find it amazing that you continue to make accusations you cannot substantiate! Unlike you, I post here under my own name. What does it feel like to be a strawman?

Stuart Tomlinson says:

04:03pm | 29/10/11

Against the man
John A Neve does post under his own name,something that you don’t do

Against the Man says:

06:31pm | 29/10/11

So Stuart why has he been caught out as Seano? And why did he get a warning email from the Punch for personal attacks on my family? Snap!

John Reeves says:

09:11am | 30/10/11

atm
Reading John Neve’s mail is surely an offence, but not as offensive as you and your childish comments.
As was accurately pointed out, you are the village idiot of The Punch

.

Against the Man says:

10:42am | 30/10/11

John again I say calling me names is pointless, when I have the same view as more than 70% of this country as per the regular polls it seems that you think you know better than the majority of us. What arrogance, and to try to think I’m going to take it personally. Keep calling me names but don’t defend your cause with valid points, hey at least it is still better than CT hiring hookers with a union CC, I guess that is ok for you

ps: All this anger towards me must signal the great ALP frustration well I’m fine with that HaHa

John A Neve says:

02:43pm | 30/10/11

AtM,
Firstly I have never had a “warning for personal attacks on your family”.
Secondly, I have never posted here on any other than my own name,
unlike yourself.
As to you being on of “70%” of this country! I can only say I find the thought scary.

Stuart Tomlinson says:

03:38pm | 30/10/11

Against the Man
Seano is not John Neve, I feel pretty confident that I can bet on that one,have known John A Neve for the past 7 years, as we both ran as candidates in a 2004 Local government election.
I am in the running as a State Candidate in next years Queensland State elections.

Against the Man says:

04:29pm | 30/10/11

Thanks John, got you commenting on a lie. Didn’t take me long to get this, will save this page link for future reference. You seem very good at following my trail into the trap.

This is the link, your comment against my family member was deleted by the Punch and Tory sent me an email about it.
http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/union-bashing-masks-good-government/

Stu, I believe you like I believe Gillard cares about Australia.

Thanks guys got what I wanted and moving on, you guys enjoy commenting away and have a great Sunday

John A Neve says:

06:28pm | 30/10/11

AtM,
You really are delusional, unlike yourself, I don’t name call (your speciality), nor have I dragged your family onto this site. If I recall, you called on your niece onto this site. I think you were after some sympathy.

As to an e-mail from Punch, if you have one that berates me for slagging your family? Please post it here as I never got it.
Bet you don’t, because you can’t can you, it’s all in your head, in fact that’s about all that’s in your head.

acotrel says:

07:43am | 28/10/11

@Joel B1
‘Still, you reckon Gillards on a winner thanks to yet more gob-fests too’

‘gob-fests’, is that the latest label which has been pasted on consultation and participation ?
I lived through the Menzies era - we didn’t have ANY of this new fangled stuff back then ! You just kept your mouth shut in case ASIO or the Special Branch started to take an interest in you, and might destroy your employment future !

Erick says:

07:46am | 28/10/11

@Joel B1 - Most Australians don’t realise how unpopular Obama is in his own country. He’s suffering from many of the same incompetence and dishonesty problems that Gillard is.

Tim says:

08:06am | 28/10/11

Disagree Erick,
I think Obama is suffering from his own party being weak and gutless and facing an opposition party that is being petty and completely obstructionist.
Actually wait,
that sounds exactly like here.

John says:

08:14am | 28/10/11

Obama is finished, it’s what happened with Bush. They both went into hiding after their popularity hit rock bottom. It makes me wonder if the pirates that occupy and rule the US will bring out another puppet that will end up being hated just like Bush and Obama. Lets see if the the US will drink the cool aid for the third time or will they vote RON PAUL. Hopefully Europe Votes Nationalist and ends this demonic order. Then start stripping their powers, update the constitutions of the US country’s and European country to make sure these people can no run for political office, or have any influence in politics, banking and the media. Cease ties with the UN. Utterly bring down the EU Soviet Union and have backyard burning sessions of the EU communist flags. Put a halt to immigration and the multicultural western Marxist agenda in the west.

James1 says:

09:05am | 28/10/11

Indeed Erick.  Meanwhile Romney looks better every week.  Things are looking up for 2012/13 for conservatives.

James says:

12:41pm | 28/10/11

Obama’s got it in the bag.
Wait until the debates, GOP lightweights will be owned as usual.

Informed Prediction says:

02:18pm | 28/10/11

Obama will romp it in.
Most Americans know the conservatives caused the meltdown and they certainly won’t forget it. Couple that with their politically driven obstructionist agenda and you have another Obama term followed by another Clinton presidency.
The conservatives in the US are doomed to wait a long time for another go. It will be much the same story here as the Abbott led conservatives collapse under their own negativity over the next two years.

Erick says:

04:53pm | 28/10/11

LOL @ James & IP - That’s right, ignore the polls and the reasons for the! Wishful thinking for the win!

acotrel says:

08:20am | 28/10/11

If it’s impossible to remove the ATMs from pokies venues, ‘mandatory precommitment’ is the next option.

Richard says:

08:42am | 28/10/11

Er, he supported the plain packaging cigarette laws. This is just a myth that Abbott says ‘NO’ to everything. Remember, as an elected representative, Abbott has a responsibility to reflect the views of those parts of society (like me) who vote for him. We oppose such policies as the Carbon Tax and the MMRT, and possibly the Pokie reform, because we support small, limited government, low taxation and government spending, and the pre-eminence of liberty, freedom, and individual self-determination.

If you on the left don’t want Abbott to say ‘NO’ to these things, well its US, his supporters (the majority of voters still incidentally), that you should be criticising. And if you want us to change our minds, well then ffs prosecute a proper argument. I have been on this forum right here day after day presenting powerful arguments against the carbon tax, the mining tax, high levels of taxation and government spending, the dangers of illiberalism and statism, etc. You have had many chances to prove that I am wrong on these issues, but you haven’t. Dare I say its because you can’t, because I’ve been right all along, and you’re just a dumb sheep who attacks Abbott just coz its trendy?

NGS says:

09:14am | 28/10/11

It is absolutely and definitely his job to say no to crap policy, and from that point of view he is doing a wonderful job, because most if not all policy coming out of these jokers is crap. No doubt about it!

Joan says:

09:40am | 28/10/11

Gillard jumped and loaded on the YES to everything wagon - Yes to Brown, Yes to Wilkie, Yes to Windsor, Yes to Oakeshot-  Yes sir, Yes sir , all the way with the minority - too bad about what majority want.

James says:

09:53am | 28/10/11

Er, he supported the plain packaging cigarette laws

You mean was dragged to the table over it when we found out how much big tobacco was funding the LNP.

And yes Roxon was somewhat guilty as well, but it was her ministry that put forward the legislation.

Lets hope the LNP can kick the donor habit from big tobacco.

James says:

09:56am | 28/10/11

@Joan

Tony tried selling has ASS to them, but they did not trust him.

Funny about that.

sandra says:

09:57am | 28/10/11

Joan and Richard your repsonses are great—and Joan—the” Gillard saying yes to everything just to keep herself in govt” is pricelees—I am going to pinch it and use it when needed for the few people who prattle on about Abbott always saying no. Thank you both very much

Horns Up says:

10:01am | 28/10/11

@Joan - silly comment. Pass.

@NGS - I’ve got no problem with him saying no to crap policy. But how is this policy crap? The argument that it wont do anything but will cost jobs is a joke. And what’s his alternative? He can’t just say no?

@Richard - errr….he didn’t exactly say yes to plain packaging publicly. Which highlights the point, it’s not good policy he’s interested in it’s scoring points.

And of course there’s the major logic disconnect in that argument since both the anti-precommittment and the anti-plain packaging campaigns are running the line that these measures wont do anything. So how does he support one and not the other? And how does he do that and remain committed to “small government”?

And again, I have no problem with Abbott holding the government to account but saying no on pre-committment and providing no alternative is not holding anyone to account.

PS. As important as you think you are, I don’t find you or your arguments particularly interesting or compelling, sorry about that.

\m/

Horns Up says:

10:06am | 28/10/11

An example of the harm that problem gambling does.

http://www.news.com.au/national/pokies-not-just-about-numbers/story-e6frfkvr-1226179009791

Saying no to pre-commitment without a sound reason or better alternative might score votes but is hardly good policy.

\m/

PTom says:

10:25am | 28/10/11

@Richard, no he only support half of the plain package laws.
People support him for small government and all that BS. Tax increase to big business for his paid parental leave, Direct Action to tackle climate change and now unknown plan to improve Internet speeds.

No plans from him to harmonizes state/federal laws.

RyaN says:

10:52am | 28/10/11

@Horns Up: Since you seem to know so much about problem gambling and being someone who doesn’t gamble nor know the depth of the problem. I would genuinely like to know what percentage of gamblers could be classified as “problem gamblers” specifically in relation to pokies. It would be even more illustrative if we could know what the total income is from pokies and what the total income from “problem gamblers” is.

Before you start, I will make my position clear, I don’t support government sticking their nose into peoples business but I do support helping people with problems.

Horns Up says:

11:35am | 28/10/11

Read through this lot:

http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/content/2007/s2028689.htm

http://www.olgr.nsw.gov.au/pdfs/rr_prevalence_gambling.pdf

I personally don’t want government interfering in people’s freedoms but on the other hand problem gambling destroys lives doing nothing is not an option.

\m/

RyaN says:

01:17pm | 28/10/11

@Horns Up: Thanks for that info, I am reading through it now.
While I understand the logic, I for one would fully support it if they included lotto tickets with it. In my honest opinion the lottery should be banned.

Horns Up says:

01:40pm | 28/10/11

Typically problem gamblers don’t have the same compulsion to keep buying lottery tickets as they do to keep putting notes into the machine with flashing lights and sound.

\m/

RyaN says:

03:05pm | 28/10/11

@Horns Up: Absolutely agree and they are two different things all together, however it is still horrific to be relieving people of their hard earned cash on something that is near impossible to win.
I heard it called “idiot tax” before.

Horns Up says:

03:49pm | 28/10/11

Problem is that as with anything they’re not all idiots. Many of these people are just decent ordinary Australian’s with a problem.

If a pre-commitment forces a moment of clarity in each session where the gambler limits their losses then it’s worth doing.

My objections are to the “it wont work” but it will “cost jobs” line. An obvious logical fallacy.

And I object to the do nothing approach especially when it’s taken for no other reason that to score points off the government (and that goes regardless of whose in opposition).

\m/

Steve Putnam says:

04:04pm | 29/10/11

@ Richard ” I have been on this forum right here day after day presenting powerful arguments against the carbon tax, the mining tax…” No you haven’t, you’ve merely announced your beliefs without a scintilla of factual back up. I’ve challenged you many times to produce an economist that supports Abbott’s scheme for polluter bribing and you’ve run away and hidden only to re-surface and peddle the same nonsense all over again.

PTom says:

10:47am | 28/10/11

Actual mick big business is actual getting very pissed off with Abbott.

http://www.nationaltimes.com.au/opinion/politics/bizbashing-rewards-abbott-20111021-1mcpy.html

Martin says:

12:23pm | 28/10/11

Look at these Labor whackers working themselves in to frenzy. Abbott this, Abbott that. Work Choices this , Work Choices that

Listen Mick, you’re useles Labor government is doing everything possible to stuff up the average person. Carbon tax, big impost on everyone for no gain.. Pokie legislation, hmmm…, that’ll be a big winner in working class suburbs I think not. 

As for PTom, the only reason business"tolerates” these Labor clowns is because they are in government , hence it is commen sense to work around them for the moment. Business in general cant wait to see the end of Labor. Thinking anything else is pure fantasy.

Mahhrat says:

08:08am | 28/10/11

Well written, Holly.

Steve says:

08:22am | 28/10/11

Holly you are absolutely correct. Anyone giving much credence to “polls” obviously doesn’t have the capacity for further analysis.

Not only is the shift from Labor to the Coalition soft, but Tony Abbott’s Approval/Disapproval difference is nearly as bad as Gillard’s. And while Gillard held the lead in Preferred PM before Abbott took the lead a few months ago now they are almost neck and neck. And more than 20% of respondents refuse to answer a preferred PM, suggesting that no matter how bad Gillard gets, people just aren’t willing to commit to Abbott as PM yet.

Time will tell, but it’s fairly obvious with a bit of analysis that a) polls this far out are meaninfless and b) the Coalition’s numbers, while better than Labor’s, are actually still quite soft.

Against the Man says:

11:48am | 28/10/11

............but Gillard still won’t dare take the carbon tax to an election. She stands by her ‘LIE’. Well done. A great role model for young Australians everywhere.

James says:

12:35pm | 28/10/11

ATM, she doesn’t lead the government, its a coalition she leads.

Drongo.

Martin says:

01:22pm | 28/10/11

Hi I’m Holly. Yep, it’s all an illusion. We where just having a nightmare. Gillard is in fact on top the polls. 26% primary vote was not real, just an illusion. Yep, and I am being fair dinkum with myself. I am not deluded. I am a fully fledged Labor supporter that is being completely honest with ones self. I am not having myself on and I honestly believe this bulldust. The fact that the small incease in support for Labor may in fact just be the margin for error is of no interest to me. 

Labor people, fair dinkum.

Aussie Battler says:

05:24pm | 28/10/11

@  James says:
  01:35pm | 28/10/11
  ATM, she doesn’t lead the government, its a coalition she leads.
  Drongo.

Last I heard, Julia Gillard leads the Labor Government with support from their Governing partners - The Greens and some Independents.  In this story, plus every other story I have read regarding her position, Julia Gillard leads the Government, not a Coalition. 

Who is the Drongo ?

Joan says:

08:46am | 28/10/11

Gillard has already dug her political grave and has one foot in it.  Who wants a `charm offensive `  Turnbull who falls for Godwin Grech and goes all the way with Rud ETS cos he`s too scared to face a double dissolution- that ain`t no shark, no tiger,  but a scaredy cat. Abbott has already dug himself and Liberals out of a political grave , now heading to the top-  like climbing Mt Everest - occasional slip back but the goal remains the peak .

nossy says:

09:34am | 28/10/11

@Joan   spoken like a true Liberal Party Member Joanie!  hahah Just remember a chain is only as strong as its werakest link and as in 2010 Abbott is the weakest link.

Joan says:

09:58am | 28/10/11

Abbott - no weak link, Nelson, Turnbull snapped, Rudd snapped off by Gillard- and replaced by Gillard - made of putty - putty in Brown, Wilke, Windsor, Oakeshot hands shaped and twisted to their desires content..

Against the Man says:

11:50am | 28/10/11

The ALP is gone. Gillard is finished. If you believe otherwise you are in denial.

James says:

12:38pm | 28/10/11

Tony A’s death by a thousand blood oath cuts is worth the price of admission.

acotrel says:

09:01am | 28/10/11

@Russell
I would have thought that the conservatives’  attempt to paint Julia as snubbing the Queen by not curtsying, would have decreased her popularity.  Doesn’t that place Julia even further ahead ?

palone says:

09:42am | 28/10/11

Well, Bertrand you ain’t.
CHOGM? External? I thought that it was held here. Queen’s visit? External? Obama visit? External?, etc., etc.
You say that Labor’s good fortune is attributable to “factors” outside of the Party’s sphere of influence. How could that be? Do you look better upon the Labor Party because some born-to-rule foreigner propping up an archaic fuedal system chose to spend a few days with us, (at our expense), and favor us with a condescending wave of a jewel-encrusted hand?
You and others of your strange ilk often refer to “Team Gillard”, but never to “Team Abbott”? I wonder what brings that about?
Another puzzling thing, at least to me, is that you keep making sarcastic and demeaning comments about “ex-Union hacks”, “rip-off merchants from Trades Hall”, and the like as if all Union workers were, by definition, criminals.
Now that’s a bit naive, (but you easily-led fools have the total rights to ‘naive’, don’t you), because that would be like Australia saying that Abbott, the ex-priest, is to be lumped with all of the many heinous acts of priests, ex-priests, and all of those priest-protectors we know exist within the catholic church. That wouldn’t be fair. Would it?
In trying to please everyone, miners/farmers, males/females, polluters/non-polluters, Mons/Reps, social gamblers/addicted gamblers, blues/reds, and all other sides of several fences he ends up pleasing no-one. Zilch!
All of the people, all of the time, result. Why wouldn’t I laugh when Abbott and his “Abbottears” cry for a quick election. He knows that the Lady in the Lodge is doing him slowly. And we are loving it.

Martin says:

01:46pm | 28/10/11

Dead right Russell.

As for Palone, what drugs are you on? Labor people these days are that deluded, that desperate that they will say anything. Some of the garbage I have read here today by Labor supporters shows me that they are so desperate that some minute movement in the polls brings on this avalanche of excitement, that somehow “Labor’s turned the corner”.

LMFAO, the fact is, as Russell pointed out, you are just getting a free kick via the Queen and CHOGM. This won’t last long. Then the pressure will be on Gillard again over all of Labor’s failures.

Abbott will start grinding away at them yet again, and things will turn shitty for Labor as it should. The worst government we have ever had will not be forgiven so lightly for their massive arrogance and complete incompetence..

Henry says:

02:23pm | 28/10/11

Martin
The best thing about this government of consensus is that it has two more years to run. Plenty of time to watch you and your deluded mates quote polls, spew lies and dream of what might be.
Desperate for relevance in a changing world?

Martin says:

10:13am | 29/10/11

Care to have a wager on this government lasting 2 years Henry?

Have to laugh at these Labor types, cocky as, yet supporting a hopeless government teetering on the edge. Go for your life with your gloating Henry, dare say you’ll have doo dah on your face before too long.

Henry says:

11:24am | 29/10/11

I have better idea martin (who has wet dreams of being in government one day).
Pistols at dawn on the common.

Have to laugh at these conservative types, cocky as, yet two years out from an election - with a leader who has NO for a policy and the right wing rabble as a support base.  Go for your life with your predictions of victory martin, dare say you’ll have doo dah on your face after the next election. That is if you survive the duel.

Martin says:

01:52pm | 29/10/11

Predictably, cock sure Henry wil NOT be putting his money where his mouth is, opting to go for the more palatable option for Labor galoots on here, that being to continue with self dillusionary dialogue. 
I would have thought a little wager would have been an apt way to settle the argument Henry, however you seem to have no faith in your own codswallop. Being a Labor chap, I guess there is no surprise there.

Henry says:

06:24pm | 29/10/11

So, no pistols at dawn then martin? Slink off to your wet fantasy dreams of Abbott in the lodge.
You want to bet, there are plenty of places for you to lose your money. Just make sure you pre-commit, so you don’t lose the house.

acotrel says:

09:24am | 28/10/11

‘False hope.”

We should run a book on this for the problem gamblers ?

acotrel says:

09:21am | 28/10/11

@nossy
Perhaps Abbott is secretly working for the other side ?

nossy says:

12:35pm | 28/10/11

@acotrel I think arrogance has taken over acotrel and he thinks he is past the post the winner - however the race is still on and with the biggest prize on offer, the PM ship, surely Turnbull wont allow a ruffian like Abbott to claim it - methinks not.

Steve says:

10:36am | 28/10/11

And Newspoll shows that the Coalition vote is still very soft, given that the shift from Labor has not gone fully to the coalition, Abbott’s approval/disapproval numbers are almost as bad as Gillard’s and they are neck and neck on preferred PM. And this has undoubtedly been the low point for Gillard and high point for Abbott.

The turning of the corner is not merely the narrowing of the 2PP, but the fact that peak Abbott has past, and it will take a lot to maintain his lead this far out from an election. Just ask big Kim!

And I doubt this were a rogue poll, because other pollsters have shown a similar shifts. It’s the trend that matters remember. If it were “rogue” how did Carbon Tax opposition go up and yet Coalition numbers go down? It also perhaps suggests that voters aren’t one-issue voters (well quel surprise!)

The corner turning may in fact be the interest rate cut. While it is set independently, successive oppositions have blamed governments for rising rates. If rates were to be cut, the government would have one less concern from the voters viewpoint (even though an interest rate cut implies a struggling economy - paradox much?) .

Borderer says:

11:05am | 28/10/11

Interesting, apparently selling out your party, toxic policies, placing the welfare of your job before those of the nation, covering for crooked collegues and backflipping are the qualities you admire in a leader.
Perhaps not selling out everyone and everything to win government makes you a better leader…..

I hear ya .... says:

11:49am | 28/10/11

Longest dummy spit in Australian history and the only ones who don’t see it go to Ltd. News for their daily dose of bullshit.

Alf says:

07:06pm | 28/10/11

Hear me out.  You call Abbott a ‘control freak’? He is an amateur compared to Rudd.

Reic The Red says:

10:52am | 28/10/11

@Damocles , So you think Abbott is good bloke do you? Well I can’t wait to see the ones who vote for him hang their heads in shame as he takes Australia back to the 1950s. Compared to labor the lib/nats have nothing.

palone says:

11:27am | 28/10/11

The wastelands, Damocles? Do you mean the utter purgatory to which the whole Nation, (including his own electorate!), sent the Highbrow Eyebrow? I don’t think so.
Actually, neither do you, but fear of impending doom makes for such strange, wishful, childish statements such as yours.
This next election is a Tipperary, to which it is a long, long, way.

Damocles says:

11:59am | 28/10/11

@ Reic The Red…......I am quite stunned at the animosity shown by certain people to Tony Abbott, it flies against the supposed “great Aussie icon”....bronzed Aussie, sporty type, outdoorsie, and I laugh when he gets ribbed for wearing the “budgie smugglers”, as our great Aussie heroes “the lifesaver” also wear “budgie smugglers”.....don’t hear anyone laughing at them. Maybe the sudden fascination with vampire movies/ TV shows (Twilight, Moonlight, True Blood) accounts for the support Gillard has with certain people, I mean she is very pale and vampirish looking.
Tony Abbott a great bloke? Yes, most definitely. Julia Gillard a great sheila? No, most definitely not, and why certain people can’t see through her shape changing and deception is well and truly beyond me.
Tony taking us back to the 1950s? Come on mate, do you even remember the 50’s? Or are you just parroting the latest Labor viral message?
If moving forward into the 21st century means damaging the Australian economy on the lie of a Carbon Tax, then yep, take me back to the 50’s! Happy Days!!
PS. I know there’s no hope in hell of convincing you or any like minded people that this present Labor government is bad, you’ve made up your mind, or maybe you’ve never ever even considered changing your mind, “I’ve voted Labor all my life, same as my father and his father before him and his father before him….........................................” well, good luck with that…..........me, I’ll keep an open mind and if Labor, through some miracle, can come up with a decent alternative government to their present one, well then I may reconsider my position.

Eric The Red says:

12:33pm | 28/10/11

@ Damocles, Your father and Grandfather and his father must be ashamed of how far you have come down the ladder and how you haven’t kept the faith and have been brain washed by the shock jocks and the Abbott Family house of Horrors. And I do remember the 50s and 60s very well, I grew up in that period and let me tell you I don’t want to go back to that era as it was run by the same mob who think they are going to win the next election. Talk about taking the Australian People for granted. I remember Abbott when he was minister for workplace relations and Health, thats right he didn’t tell lies, it’s just that it wasn’t what he really meant when he said something, grow up and take the Alan Jones glasses off.

Damocles says:

12:45pm | 28/10/11

Hey palone…..you’re right it is a long, long way to Tipperary, but we’ll then pack up our troubles in the old kit bag and smile, smile, smile! Happy days will be here again! And the strange, wishful, childish statements such as mine are the same as 54% of the rest of Australia…..you my dear are in the minority and next election you’ll be making your own share of strange, wishful, childish statements, but you’ll still be in the minority.

acotrel says:

07:23am | 29/10/11

@Damocles
Tony Abbott is said to be a ‘man’s man’.  I just wonder whose man he really is ?  Perhaps he should be stood in front of the TV cameras with a couple of guys like Todd and Brandt, as John Howard was after the mine disaster in Tassie.  The comparison is hilarious !

Douglas says:

03:15pm | 29/10/11

[Damocles 12:59pm | 28/10/11]

Ugh, what butt-cleansing Liberal spin! Hilarious and vomit-inducing all at the same time.

Eric The Red says:

10:35am | 28/10/11

@Govt@FauxCitizen, I reckon the the majority of Australians will eventually come to realize Tony Abbott has told more porkies than Julia ever will,if the haven’t already. Remember when his was one of Howards front benchers? He never broke a single promise did he Govt@FauxCitizen.

Steve says:

10:50am | 28/10/11

You obviously don’t believe Abbott’s “absolutely rock solid, ironclad commitment” on medicare safety net during the 2004 election campaign to be a broken promise then can I take it?

Abbott said “when circumstances change, governments do change their opinions”. Hey, I agree with him, which is why I’m happy for Abbott to have changed his opinion, and why I’m happy for Gillard to have changed hers.

How about the suggestion that he doesn’t kiss arse - what about to Gina, Packer and Rupert? What about during his negotiations with the independents when he was all very nice to them and saying that parliament would be nicer. Don’t tell me he wasn’t just kissing arse to the indies.

Give me a break champ. They are politicians, they all lie and kiss arse. It’s who they are.

The fact you’re asking for a double dissolution election “NOW” suggests you haven’t the faintest idea on how the constitution works. Read some Antony Green, you might be enlightened.

RyaN says:

10:57am | 28/10/11

@Eric The Red / Seano: No one could possibly break the trust of the Australian people any more than a categorical promise “There will be no carbon tax under a government I lead”.

Matt says:

11:03am | 28/10/11

Really???  That sounds like a classic case of the pot calling the kettle black to me.  There are NO lillywhite politicians of any stripe & every politician believes they know whats best for us.

I’d also recommend you grow up with the infantile name calling - is just shows you as a person who lacks respect for others.  Be an adule & agree to disagree.

Oh, by the way, have a read up on how the constitution works with regard to elections.

RyaN says:

10:59am | 28/10/11

@Blind Freddy: look at it this way, it didn’t take the Labor government long to roll back workchoices, it won’t take the Liberal government long to roll back the carbon tax.
Bad policy is what it is and it deserves to be kicked out when the people clearly don’t want it, this goes for both sides.

Horns Up says:

03:55pm | 28/10/11

But of course it’s not bad policy. It’s supported by economists, it’s the same thing Howard wanted to do and it’s much better than what Abbott’s offering which he can’t get any economist to back (because apparently they’re all stoopid).

As for roll back, it should be easy to tell all those tax payers that their tax breaks are gone…easy peasy….and popular too no doubt.

\m/

Alf says:

07:08pm | 28/10/11

@Blind Freddy. I suppose he could be like Gillard and LIE his way into office.

Chris L says:

03:24pm | 29/10/11

@Alf - I guess I need to point out, again, that Gillard promised a carbon price before the election. You don’t have to believe me, but surely you wouldn’t doubt Bolt would you?

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/gillard_wont_rule_out_jacking_up_power_prices/

Timbo says:

05:05pm | 29/10/11

Mazza, you and i know the BER was a dreadful waste as a third of the outlay was pissed up the wall by poor administration.

Chris L says:

05:00pm | 30/10/11

@Timbo - and the various official reports, such as the Orgill report, concluding that the BER was a success is just something you’d like to ignore eh?

Joel B1 says:

12:08pm | 28/10/11

That’s me voting Labor for ever.

jf says:

12:38pm | 28/10/11

This from a man that supports a government who blames everyone but themselves.

- Mark Latham
- Misogynists (no-one must criticise the PM if she’s a woman)
- The opposition opposing bad asylum seeker policy
- The opposition somehow has more influence on the economy than the Government
- The High Court
- The GFC
- The opposition
- Public servants
- Economists
- The Greens
- The unions
- The mining boom
- each one more hilarious (and more desperate) than the last

Drifting over Abbotabad says:

12:39pm | 28/10/11

Excellent work Eric.

Sums up Abbott perfectly.
Hope the wind gets up and he drifts off over the ocean.

Labor is Toxic says:

06:35am | 30/10/11

So when 4-people died in the insulation debacle it was Abbot’ts fault.
So when the 2010-11 Budget failed it was Abbot’ts fault.
So when over 11,500 people arrived by boat in 3-years it was Abbott’s fault.
So when steel mills and copper refineries shut down it was Abbott’s fault.
So when East Timor / Malaysia / anything but Nauru failed it was Abbott’s fault.

The list goes on and on and on!!!

Eric The Red says:

01:05pm | 28/10/11

Martin did I hit a nerve old son?

Blind Freddy says:

01:29pm | 28/10/11

Poor ol’ Martin. He has a though but his anger keeps getting in the way of his ability to express himself.

Intentional says:

02:11pm | 28/10/11

Too close to the truth I suspect Eric.

Abbott has reached his peak and the conservative sycophants know it.
Abbott is about to crash land ... I predict.

Alf says:

07:21pm | 28/10/11

@International. If Abbott has ‘reached his peak’ as you say, so has Gillard. Although, her’s is more of small dung-hill.

TimB says:

02:26pm | 28/10/11

Wow. I’ve never heard that one before either.

How do you think of these original gems?

Ah well. At least you’ve amused Badger.

if says:

04:34pm | 28/10/11

Was that the same school boy telling very old jokes as if they were their own.

How sad for you.

Oh, and feel free to casually forget about your posts when you comment on the low standard of political debate the next time someone criticises Gillard.

Knemon says:

06:26pm | 28/10/11

The Red Eric is winning…humour plus one. Respec…

Eric The Red says:

07:19am | 29/10/11

@ IF, I never said they were my own Jokes, It’s good to see I am getting under the Lib Supporters skins. Made my weekend it has. You mob (Libs) would know all about the low standard of political debate, The Abbott Family are experts at low standards.

jf says:

10:53am | 29/10/11

Eric The Red says:08:19am | 29/10/11

“mob (Libs) would know all about the low standard of political debate,”

If only we could raise ourselves to your lofty standards. However, I’m pretty sure that you won’t find quotes from the great statesmen or philosophers in your dog-eared copy of. ‘The jokes that ‘Kochie rejected’.

Willie Tanner says:

03:20pm | 28/10/11

Because we always govern by polls, especially when we are two years out from an election.
Perhaps you should move upwind if you’re experiencing a bad smell or better yet, change your jocks.

Seriously, two years is a long time to be sucking in farts, unless of course that’s something extraterrestrials get off on.

Alf says:

07:18pm | 28/10/11

I won’t have have to put up with their shit for 2 years Willie. Gillard is practically gone already.

Joel B1 says:

05:59pm | 28/10/11

It sure was. Especially when a certain editor is after a safe (ha ha) ALP seat soon.

Or when that doesn’t work a shit-load of “consultancy”...

lol says:

08:49am | 29/10/11

Ltd. News delivering crushing criticism of Labor?
No way, did they really?
What a surprise, pushing their proprietors agenda.
Go figure.