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Kevin Rudd stars in the final scene from Animal Farm

David Gazard

by David Gazard

19 Feb 05:50am

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Filed under: Election 2010, Insulation, Kevin Rudd, Labor Party, Politics

178 comments

You know things are going seriously awry when the party of the workers starts blaming the workers.

Labor: it's so hard to get good help these days.

But that’s exactly what’s happening within the ALP over the insulation rollout debacle.

Ignoring proceedings in the Labor State of NSW where bosses can be tried for industrial manslaughter, federal Labor is saying that the minister responsible for the rollout should be exonerated from blame in the deaths of four insulation installers.

Peter Garrett wasn’t in the roof cavity, so he can’t be held responsible, so he can’t be held responsible, they say. The Environment Minister says the installers are at fault

Tell that to John Howard who was held by the ALP for being responsible for everything from throwing babies overboard to handing over cash in a brown paper bag to Saddam Hussain.

This massive mixed message from Labor underscores a number of schizophrenic problems with the Rudd government’s narrative, which as they become more apparent are starting to bite Labor in the polls.

Kevin Rudd promised to cut the cost of household goods when he was campaigning for government.

But his Fuelwatch and Grocerywatch efforts quickly collapsed and, instead of attempting to keep faith, he’s ended up arguing for a new tax which would drive up the cost of just about all the things he promised would be cheaper.

He promised to fix the country’s hospitals, but has wimped his own deadline for the fix. Instead, people are finding out that he intends to make their private health insurance more expensive.

It’s nothing new for Rudd.

Rudd entered the parliament claming that all ALP policy should be bound together by a “red thread”. Those were the days when he claimed he was a Christian Socialist.

In the lead-up to the 2007 campaign, he morphed into an economic conservative, but regressed after the global financial crisis, preferring to claim neo-liberalism had brought the world to the brink. We needed more regulation to counter the markets which had gone mad, he wrote.

But by January, he had slid back into his rationalist suit, recasting himself as a conservative. A year after urging a higher regulatory burden, he announced plans to cut regulation to help create Australia as a global financial centre, a hub for the markets in our time zone.

In his first major speech of the year, he decried widening budget deficits and told people they would have to work harder so the country could avoid a looming demographic catastrophe. He’d previously attacked the former government’s efforts in this area.

But no sooner had he uttered these words when Senator Conroy was sent out to announce a quarter of a billion dollar tax cut for commercial TV networks.

Widening deficit? Demographic crisis? Rudd has seemingly jettisoned the efforts around these legitimate policy objectives in a bid to stitch up media support.

Who cares if the punter has to pay more later if you can “help” the networks in an election year.

He’s sat idly by while his deputy attacked Coalition leader Tony Abbott for having the temerity to advise his daughters not to sleep around.

He said he didn’t want to give moral advice on virginity to anyone, just a few weeks after urging everyone to stick with him while he fixed the greatest moral issue of our time.

These flip-flops and backflips are emblematic of a Government which has no policy coherence and no clear agenda. The gains it made on its fiscal response were reactionary and are now proving to be grossly miscalculated.

Its efforts on climate change have been mishandled and premature, exposing Australia to a tax which is out of step with anything else in the world.

These responses have flowed from the Prime Minister, who appears lately to be unable to manage his own agenda and is struggling to clearly articulate a vision beyond the daily media cycle.

It’s easy, within this context, to see how the so-called “Party of the workers” has been able to walk away from the workers and their families with such ease.

Most commented

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178 comments

Show oldest | newest first

    • agblaster says:

      06:04am | 19/02/10

      Blaming the workers? Huh? Sorry?

      Lets see now, who was it installing the insulation? Ah yes, those defenders of the Liberal dream, the de-regulated free market - the rugged individualist struggling independent small business man. Oh please.

      Fly By Night Tinfoil Installers 2010 (NL) rushing to rip off ordinary home owners and the taxpayer - and somehow its all the ALPs fault.  Blaming the workers my fat foot.

      Dodgy Bruvvers incompetence, more like it.

      Reply

    • julia says:

      08:19am | 19/02/10

      Sorry, Aggi, but yes it’s the government’s fault. They’re the ones who allowed companies direct access to the money without carrying out any due diligence on the companies who applied.

      If Garrett had tightened up the criteria when he got his first warning - ie requested certified copies of the occupational and workplace safety training certificates issued by their state government - he might have prevented these unnecessary deaths.

      You have to jump through burning rings to prove your eligibility for the pension or dole, but for more money than Mrs Ethel Stringbag gets in a month, these guys didn’t have to do half of the compliance.

      In fact, if the state Labor governments weren’t also Labor, they’d be saying it themselves.

    • agblaster says:

      09:41am | 19/02/10

      Sorry? Its *not* Dodgy Bruvvers fault? What? Come off it. 

      So those with dud material, loss or injury will have a case against the Minister will they? What total tosh.

      If I was the dad-gum gummint, I’d be getting the ATO to run a very straight ruler over the ABN & GST records of these tools.

      Dodgy Bruvvers - send us ya money, we’re free market, and we’re here to dud you.

    • Brad says:

      10:35am | 19/02/10

      The “Dodgy Bruvvers” would never have got involved in the insulation business if the government didn’t start subsidising it. There was easy money to be made thanks to the government.  If Rudd and Garrett had just stayed out of the market they wouldn’t be in this mess.

    • Agblaster says:

      11:01am | 19/02/10

      Oh for God’s sake. There were standards already in place.  And its hardly bloody brain surgery!  Its just tinfoil in a roof space with live wires.

      How hard was it for Dodgy Bruvvers to do the job *right* the first time?

      And at the end of the day, there’ll be bloody thousands of homes properly insulated that wouldn’t have been, and a handful needing a fix up.

      By someone other than Dodgy Bruvvers.

    • Mark says:

      11:47am | 19/02/10

      Your kidding aren’t you agblaster?

      “Oh for God’s sake. There were standards already in place.  And its hardly bloody brain surgery!  Its just tinfoil in a roof space with live wires.”

      is that your position? Why are your dodgy bruvvers up there with the live wires mate? It is because Garrett and Rudd opened the tip-truck full of cash. Their need to spend out weighed all other considerations.

      I know you are just being a cheer squad for Labor but really you are contridicting yourself. It is “bloody brain surgery” mate. You stuff up as a brain surgeon people die. You stuff up as a batt installer you can die or put other lives in danger. The brain surgeon had training and is less likely to stuff up. The batt installers had none, were required to have none and were encouraged by the flow of cash from Labor to get at it now before the tap was turned off.

      Spin it any way you want. It is Labor’s fault people have died and culpibility lies with them because of the seeming desire to ignore multiple warnings to the dangers inherent.

      Seriously, do you honestly believe if you toss $2.4 billion (or whatever) at a industry that there should not be some sort of thought put into into the likely consequences of further activity in that sector? At the very least it shows serious lack of judgement and ability to manage.

    • Grumbles says:

      12:35pm | 19/02/10

      de-regulated free market means no Government intervention. If this was the case individuals would pay for their own insulation, they would choose a reputable company and a quality of product. Government intervention caused this problem.

    • Agblaster says:

      01:39pm | 19/02/10

      Oh my. Metal foil, live wires in roofs. Yep, definitely need a 5-year degree course to work the risks of that one out. My, my, silly me.

    • Ben says:

      02:04pm | 19/02/10

      Agbuster, what a bloody surprise, when they’re a political liability, they’re private contracting cowboys.
      My guess is that in any other context you would consider them to be “up by the bootstraps” working men and women. And don’t pretend you wouldn’t have held Howard responsible if the shoe was on the other foot.
      I see your replies just become wilder and wilder as you blame the dead men and exonerate their ALP paymasters.

    • julia says:

      02:29pm | 19/02/10

      Ag: it’s also about duty of care and because the government has provided the funds, they’re in the duty of care chain.

    • agblaster says:

      02:35pm | 19/02/10

      Putting words in my mouth, eh. Very nasty contemptible trick, that one. 

      Four men lost. Their *employer* is the one at fault.  How hard is that to grasp? Harder than metal foil plus live wires=danger?

      There is *no* dirty depth you people would not sink to, is there? 

      What’s the favoured saying around here by the Right? “Hit a nerve”, did I?

      Done here.

    • julia says:

      03:42pm | 19/02/10

      Just wanted to ask Ag one more thing: if you hire a man to kill your wife, does that exonerate you from the murder?

    • iansand says:

      06:14am | 19/02/10

      I would have thought a short, lucid explanation of why Garrett IS responsible would be the opening paragraph of this article.  It is something that is not clear to me.

      Reply

    • Manik says:

      12:15pm | 19/02/10

      The buck stops with him….he’s the Minister. It is his program.

    • Phil says:

      03:10pm | 19/02/10

      Iansand

      Many have stated why Garrett is responsible. Rudd came to power with the buck stops with him.

      Its not good enough that he had to waste our money giving it away, he them bought in green jobs and allowed cowboys to start companies and rip off the taxpayers.

      When the program started why were most quotes coming in on or around 1600. When the rebate was loweredmost now come in around 1200. Does this sound like a good result for the taxpayer, or are we getting ripped off.

      I wonder how many of the deaths and fires as a result of new insulation occurred on jobs performed by the indusrty leaders and companies that have been in business for many years and how many by those commenced after the scheme was announced? Recon 99.9% to the later.

    • iansand says:

      06:30pm | 21/02/10

      Micromanagement is a curse.  And you are advocating micromanagement of an extraordinary degree. 

      I would have thought that requiring private sector financiers to supervise every action of the subcontractors to the contractor who do the work for Mr Triguboff would be deeply offensive to advocates of free markets.

    • steve parker says:

      06:18am | 19/02/10

      So much for that “working families” phrase so endlessly and meaninglessly bandied around by the likes of Rudd, Swan and Gillard. Personally I can’t wait to be rid of their endless talk and no action.

      Reply

    • Matt says:

      06:18am | 19/02/10

      The problem with the facile comparison to NSW industrial law is this:

      The Federal Government is the client, not the boss. At a stretch, Peter Garrett is closer to your dad, who kicks in a few extra thousand to help out with your renos when you run out of money. (Thanks for that Dad, by the way. It meant we had windows and stuff).

      If anyone is liable for these tragic deaths, it is the managers and directors of the companies which employed the workers.

      If this ridiculous conservative attack is true, it means that if you get your kitchen redone and, because of shoddy wiring, an apprentice injures himself installing the stove, then YOU’RE liable, not the bloke who employs the apprentice.

      Just not true, and a quick glance at the law books (or the interwebs) would have shown that. Actually a good hard dose of common sense would have sufficed, but maybe that’s hoping too much.

      Garrett’s got a few issues, but this line of attack just exposes the Libs as people who don’t understand basic law (as well as more complex things, like, you know, billions and millions).

      Reply

    • matt stewart says:

      01:05pm | 19/02/10

      Look I agree that the insulation/Garrett to blame argument is probably the weakest one in this column.  The much bigger concern is the flip-flopping, poll-driven, man of many colours menace, Kevin Rudd.  Not only is he bereft of ideology (which some would say is a good thing), he is bereft of direction, consistency, integrity, transparency and honesty.  He fooled us once with his empty promises, cliched phrases, air-ticks and legoman haircut - shame on him.  If he fools us again at the next election - shame on us.

    • John A Neve says:

      06:20am | 19/02/10

      There are two issiues here, firstly the insulation and secondly the similarity being made between Garrett and Howard.

      Regarding the insulation issue, I fail to see how a government programe and the actual work done are connected in any way but money. The home owner arranged the contractor, the contractor provided the materials and labour and the building codes are a state issue.

      With regard to ministerial responsibility, I never blamed Howard for the children overboard or the AWB money paid to Iraq. What I did blame Howard for was the continual denying of the TRUTH. The man lied and now we all know this to be the case. I am unaware of Garrett lying about the insulation installations, maybe i’ve missed something.

      Reply

    • watty says:

      08:19am | 19/02/10

      Lying by omission perhaps?

      Where was the Federal Cabinet,who had approved the “pink batts” scheme, when the warnings started to filter through?

      Wan’t there anyone in the Cabinet,the legally trained Gillard, for example, who suggested the “batts” scheme should be halted until the advice and complaints were thoroughly investigated?

      Or did Rudd and Garrett just decide to turn a blind eye hoping their incompetency would go un-noticed?

    • John A Neve says:

      08:36am | 19/02/10

      Watty,

      If there were problems with the installation or quality of materials?
      This would be a state issue not federal. Also if the home owner had any concerns, they should have approached the installer.

      Does you mother still wipe your bum Watty?

    • Chris says:

      08:43am | 19/02/10

      I believe the Government is more closely involved in that the provider seeks from the government a rebate for the installation work completed.
      For most of the installers, they would have made an agreement with the homeowner, installed the correct installation, safely and at the right price. The problem was the dodgy operators who ripped off both the government and the homeowner (with fatal consequences). They saw the ease with which money was obtained and the lack of oversight from those handing it out. A license to print money.
      Is the Minister directly responsible for the deaths - hyperbole aside probably not. However his scheme and its management has allowed the situation to develop where the risk has increased. For that there must be some accountability laid at his desk.

    • watty says:

      09:04am | 19/02/10

      John “Naive” you are such a wit.

      Rudd Garrett and the Cabinet were sitting on information that warranted a halt to the ‘batts scheme” and sid SFA.

      As the Federal Governmen called for the initial tenders don’t they have some reponsibility in the choice of installers.?

      Does my mother still wipe my bum? Unfortunately she passed away 15 years ago and I haven’t been able to raise her since the lasr seance.

      Judging fro the crap you go on with may I ask if your mother still wipes your lips?

    • John A Neve says:

      09:12am | 19/02/10

      Chris,

      While I take your point, governments make all types of laws and regulations every day. Every day some smart ass sees a quick dollar in bending the rules. This has never been a federal or state government issue.

      We have police, customs, building inspectors etc, etc, to oversee and enforce these laws and regulations.

      Just what is different about this caes?

    • John A Neve says:

      09:19am | 19/02/10

      Watty,

      You have know idea what information “Rudd, garrett and the cabinet” were sitting on. Even the “letters” sent, you have know idea what was in them.

      If as you seem to think the federal government is responsible for all things, perhaps you could tell us why we have state governments?

      P.S. I’m sorry your bum is always dirty now.

    • Chris says:

      10:17am | 19/02/10

      John,

      Workplace safety laws are actually government responsibilities(particularly at the state level). All of those inspectors, regulatory bodies, and law enforcement agencies are all government entities payed for in the main by public funds. Perhaps the federal Government in its rush to throw money around (and attract some nasty bees to the honey pot) should have ensured an approriate regulatory framework to ensure its correct implementation. It comes down to good governance. Perhaps that is where the Federal Government is at fault.
      Good discussion thread though - thanks for the debate.

    • Randal says:

      02:20pm | 19/02/10

      Well John, the government registered the contractor that knocked on the customers door and said… Yep their right to go ahead and hell we will even pay them for you.

      That does not mitigate that the company and it’s directors should face criminal charges for their actions, however this does not absolve the government who rolled out the insulation as part of their stimulus and failed to heed numerous warnings of possible dangers.

      Worse, when the warnings became reality, they still failed to act, and as a result we have 4 dead, 90+ homes destroyed with a further 37,000 houses potentially at risk.

      So yes the company owners and directors should be charged and the Minister responsible for the this debacle and who failed to stop the program until today, should also go.

      Pretty simple really and I cannot see how anyone could state anything differently.

    • Joo says:

      06:29am | 19/02/10

      I’m just happy knowing that a historic analysis of Rudd’s time as PM will show that we as a country have been let down by a government who has no idea how to run a country.

      Reply

    • Polywatcher says:

      06:53am | 19/02/10

      I would be one of the first to agree that Kevin 07 spends too much time swanning around the world ignoring the woes of this country. If there is one time he should be going overseas it would be to represent Australia at the Gallipoli 95th Anniversay. Instead he has chosen to send his best mate - Ms Bryce.  After all hasnt she been tripping around the world at taxpayer expense recently?  Fair suck of the sauce bottle Kev. Show respect to the diggers.

      Reply

    • iansand says:

      08:00am | 19/02/10

      Constitutionally, Ms Bryce is Mr Rudd’s boss.  She is actually the person who should be there.

    • T.Chong says:

      08:07am | 19/02/10

      Good onya Polly, and if Rudd did plan to attend Gallipoli, it would be a safe bet that your LNP instructions would be to say that the GG should rep. the country, while Rudd stayed in Oz .
      Please think of better non issues, or maybe you should have saved that directive until a bit closer to the day.

    • davo says:

      02:46pm | 19/02/10

      I would be offended to see Dudd there- I cannot believe this guy is our PM- I am just glad that plenty of others are starting to recognise Dudd’s showpony attitude to everything

    • Jack G says:

      07:00am | 19/02/10

      Jack G
      I used to enjoy this this paper and some of its articles, but lately it has been used to labor bash almost every day, who is Gazard any way seems to me he is just another Journo whose mother forgot to tell him he is a smart ass

      Reply

    • John says:

      08:03am | 19/02/10

      I think the problem is that the media were swooning over Kevin in 2007, worshipping the very ground he walked on while painting John Howard as the devil incarnate.  But now they see Kevin as having let them down big-time and so are turning on him.  It’s like that old line about “a woman scorned”.

    • SincerlyYours says:

      08:13am | 19/02/10

      agreed, its not worth the effort comeing here to read now. The views are extremly bias.  I feel so sorry for the mums and dads of these young people that died but I honestly feel, the people employing them were responsible they did not have good work practises. This is my opinion alone, and I am sure voting Australia will have their own opinions

    • Kim says:

      11:32am | 19/02/10

      Even though I’m not a labor supported, I do agree that the companies employing the people to install the insulation are at fault.  Did anyone see on tv Wednesday night the installer who had his kids on the roof of a house with him?  The oldest was ten and the youngest was in nappies for crying out loud and none of them were given protective clothing from the chemicals used wtihin the batts.

      The insulation companies are obviously employing people at a very low rate and haven’t any safety procedures in place.  These are the people that the state government should be looking at.  These are the people that are responsible for the deaths of others and for the house fires that have occurred since the insulation has been placed in the houses.

    • Rowdy says:

      12:53pm | 19/02/10

      That’s interesting Kim. No wonder there are dodgey installers if the guy on TV Wednesday night was ON the roof….I thought the insulation went in the roof? Classic…and did his kids work less than 3 hours on their shift? That’s not allowed now….did they get paid at all???


      Anyway, Garrett sat on warnings from relevant industrial organisations about the use of the foil-backed insulation and the very real possibility of this foil becoming live when coming into contact with wiring in the roof space. This should have flagged a ceasation of the program immediately and all houses with said insulation be inspected. Even now, if these homes are inspected, there is no guarantee it won’t be live in 2 weeks time. The fact that this particular type of insulation was even in the specification for the materials, ie was even an option for the installers, goes to show how ill-thought out this whole scheme was. Seems to be a party desperate to spend, spend, spend…damn the torpedoes (read “deaths”).....

    • Kim says:

      01:41pm | 19/02/10

      Rowdy,  yes the kids were ON the roof.  The installer had removed tiles off the roof and was inserting the batts through the roof.  The youngster in nappies nearly fell off but was helping the “father”.  The 10 year old was helping by removing the batts from the plastic covering and forcing them through the hole in the roof.  The father was of course wearing overalls gloves, glasses, the whole bit while the child helping was wearing shorts and a t-shirt and was obviously uncomfortable as he was scratching his arms, hands, legs etc.

      The fact that they were up there was not Peter Garretts fault.  I’m sure he didn’t ask the parent to take his kids on top of the roof with him. 

      The real issue that is getting my goat is the fact that the government is blaming all of this on the householders.  They supposedly are supposed to check qualifications etc.  Now, the householders that have the insulation installed are supposed to get electricians in to check the wiring etc at their own expense.  This should be paid out of the governments pockets.  Any insulation found that has effected the wiring (by staples etc) should be fixed by qualified installers and the installers of the original insulation should be fined and their payment receiving originally should be refunded back to the government.

    • Randal says:

      02:22pm | 19/02/10

      Perhaps a little bribe from the PM’s bag man Conroy to the Punch might do the trick to turn things around… I am sure he still has plenty of cash in the old money bag.

    • Rowdy says:

      02:30pm | 19/02/10

      I wasn’t having a go at you Kim…I didn’t see the TV show, but when you mentioned “on the roof” I instantly thought that these dodgy installers must be very dodgy! It is supposed to go IN the roof…. LOL!


      But the government has to accept a lot of the blame for this. Proper accreditation and traning should have been given, as well as the requirement for ALL installers to be trained in turn, proper PPE to be worn at ALL times and proper consideration to the materials specified for the works. These idiots, like the one on the TV, should have been screened out well and truly before they started, or at least been picked up very early in the piece. Also, this product, if there was ANY doubt (and we now know there was because of the warnings from industry groups) should have been banned from use as insulation, or removed as an option for these installers who, obvioulsy weren’t trained correctly. And of course the government (us) should be paying for the checks by the electricians….probably best done by a 100% rebate upon prduction of receipt. But once again, this only guarantees the installation at that moment. It can still become live at any time in the future (due to decaying insulation, rodents etc). The only real way out is to remove this foil-backed insulation from all homes where it was installed, and to replace it with a non-conductive insulation, cost bworn by the tax payer….and Peter Garret to lose his job….and the owners of the installing companies where the deaths occured should be prosecuted.

    • Fog Badger says:

      03:33pm | 19/02/10

      Hey, Jack G.

      Go to Crickey and you can intellectually masturbate yourself sill with your lefty, ALP chums!

      The Punch blog is a far better place than many.

    • CQ Steve says:

      07:05am | 19/02/10

      He’s doing nothing new, changing masks to suit the situation and adhereing to the politicians mantra “Don’t do as I do, do as I say”.  These people are no longer the workers party and haven’t been for years.

      Reply

    • Paul says:

      07:21am | 19/02/10

      Abbott like Rudd like Howard will do-nothing on fuel and food, anti-competition against small business, health, the Murray Darling, healthy democracy and freespeech.  And yes Howard and Rudd are responsible for the deaths of young (diggers) people in Afganistan. (Amongst others) But that’s different isn’t it Mr Gazard, the Heads of the Animal Farm washed those sins away!The country needs less loud mouthed hypocrites, Mr Gazard, and some actual vision, integrity and action.

      Reply

    • matt stewart says:

      01:19pm | 19/02/10

      Right, so you think today’s journalist should focus on bashing past prime ministers and potential future ones, rather than commenting on the issues at hand?  Yeh, well done, genius.  And as I recall, Howard was very open about accepting responsibility for the deaths of diggers.

    • Alan says:

      07:49am | 19/02/10

      “It had become usual to give Comrade <s>Napoleon</s> Rudd the credit for every successful achievement and every stroke of good fortune. You would often hear one hen remark to another, ‘Under the guidance of our Leader, Comrade <s>Napoleon</s> Rudd, I have laid five eggs in six days’; or two cows, enjoying a drink at the pool, would exclaim, ‘Thanks to the leadership of Comrade <s>Napoleon</s> Rudd, how excellent this water tastes!’”

      Reply

    • T.Chong says:

      07:51am | 19/02/10

      Yes David Gazzard, the LNP is the workers friend. Funny. I thought the ACDC story was the Friday Lite until reading your comedy piece.
      The LNP and its apologists cant gain enough traction via “new big tax” so now the Lib spinners are seeking to capitalise on those tragic deaths as political footballs.
      Surely Dave, as an ex siren chaser , you would have been able to find workplace accidents during the Howard years, but I cant recall you bursting forth into print about them ,until yur side was kicked out.
      Finally Dave, since SIEV X was all so above board (as far as the govt went) then why were so many lies told by the Libs?

      Reply

    • watty says:

      08:38am | 19/02/10

      T.Chong.  The tiresome little Labor apologist.

      Naughty,naughty Libs.

      They actually lifted the carpet on the “batts fiasco” and found the Labor Leader and his Cabinet cowering underneath hoping the bad news would just go away..

      Why didn’t Rudd and his Cabinet pull the plug on the “batts” rip off when the odour started to permeate the corridordsof power

      They must have known about the concerns and complaints as Garrett must surely report to Rudd and Cabinet.

      “The buck stops here” ring any bells?

    • Brad Coward says:

      02:45pm | 19/02/10

      T. Chong….if the insulation program was that crash hot, please explain why the government has suddenly cancelled it this very day ?

      Perhaps they are just “resting” the program in the way that a TV network might choose to rest a program that nobody bothers to watch in prime time.  Bring it back in a few months and run it when it’s likely to attract even less attention.

    • KM says:

      08:02am | 19/02/10

      Good article there David I full agree with your take on Rudd and his government. This government is all about bluff and higher taxes, they are hypocrites and have slowly become more and more arrogant.

      Reply

    • ~Bug Catcher~ says:

      08:02am | 19/02/10

      David Gazard I enjoyed your column this morning.

      It won’t be long before all the farm animals turn on each other when the one they thought was most popular to lead the revolt, turns out to be Duddly Doolittle.  There are others who will want to challenge the leadership of the Animal House.
      I would be watching that red headed old chook with the funny cackle.

      Reply

    • BigBob says:

      08:28am | 19/02/10

      I am in the union as a millions of other Australians and you might want to remember this. You have heard it before on the streets all over Australia “The workers united will never be defeated” The employers were the ones to blame, they tossed kids into roofs with no training. None of you know anything of OHS. Occupational Health and Safety. Every employer who under took to install this insulation had a duty under OHS As an employer or responsible contractor, you are required by law to provide a ‘safe system of work’. This means you need a method of communicating, duplicating and implementing a safe way of working. Peter Garrettt could not be in every roof .
      Australian workers are aware of it, so Tony Abbott big dramatics just get laughed at. Keep in my mind Australia has 22 million people, not even a small fraction come here to read this, most just don’t care what you have to say.

    • Grumbles says:

      01:59pm | 19/02/10

      So Big Bob when someone who did not have a safe work place and did not have any OHS policies applies for a financial rebate from the Federal Government, should they give him the money? Cause they did.

      Should the Government have set standards for the rebate as in quality of insulation and accredited companies, or should it be every man and his dog? Cause they set no standards.

      If the Government started the scheme as open slather and were promply informed of problems, should they stop and rethink the scheme? When… after one death, 2, 3? Cause they were made aware and did nothing.

      Given that they are 100% aware of the situation now, do you think they should introduce guidelines as to the quality of product and install required to get the rebate? Cause they haven’t.

    • JR says:

      08:05am | 19/02/10

      Whether Garrett was actually responsible isn’t the point of the paragraph in the article. It is that in the past, Rudd’s view on these isssues was that he is, but now her has changed his tune. In regards to whether Garrett is actually responsible, if you think he isn’t, then you can’t give the Rudd government any credit for effects on the economy from the stimulus package. They just handed out the money and brought in the policy, it was up to us to spend it where it was needed, and the construction companies not to waste it and do shonky work. There is no distinction between the two.

      Reply

    • John A Neve says:

      08:22am | 19/02/10

      JR,

      You are correct, the government created the stimulus package and provided the money. How the population used it was really up to them.

      I don’t recollect the government telling us how it should be spent! Again, I must have missed something.

    • Jane says:

      12:06pm | 19/02/10

      The government created the ‘stimulus’ in this…ergo the government created the SITUATION whereby ( and it was warned about it then ) that by doing so, supply and numbers of qualified tradesman to meet the demand of that situation could not possibly be met…and would lead to an influx of dodgy opportunists lured by the bucks offered.

      They created that situation….willingly and knowingly….and did so REGARDLESS of warnings to the effect it would be mostly abused by the incompetent and untrained….and that it could not possibly be monitored and inspected adequately..because in the short term it ‘looked good’ for them.
      It’s what it’s all about for Labor, isn’t it?..What it looks like….the facade.

      Garrett as minister who initiated and provided this ‘situation’ and as the one who was repeatedly warned about the ramifications of it, is completely and utterly responsible for it as as such should be sacked…..and if Rudd cannot and hasn’t acknowledged that fact….should go as well.

      It’s like forcibly putting the fox in the hen house and crying afterwards ‘it’s not my fault the fox ate the hens….I can’t be responsible for what the fox does!!”

      Rudd/Labor - EPIC FAIL

    • E says:

      08:12am | 19/02/10

      This whole ‘workers’, ‘bosses’ thing is so nineteenth century ... I mean obviously both parties serve the interests of those who will sinecure them post politics.
      It hilarious to see the unions become parasites on the workers.

      Reply

    • John A Neve says:

      08:27am | 19/02/10

      Eric,

      The unions are the workers and the workers are the union.
      If this is not the case, the only ones at fault are the workers.

      But I agree with you Eric, we have become a race of “parasites”.

    • Macca says:

      09:18am | 19/02/10

      @John, I haven’t heard anything from the Unions about the failings of the Installation program.

      if 4 people died in such a program at a major construction company, the Unions would be calling for the CEO to be thrown in jail and banned from managing a Corporation for a Decade.

      Ultimately, the Program is Garrett’s responsibility and he should lose his job.

      @E, The unions care about power, not the people. If you disagree with me explain why they have taken no action and made no noise regarding this program

      In fact the only thing I have heard was from the CFMEU saying things were more unsafe when the Coalition was in power. The Union movement’s response to these deaths have been nothing but hypocritical to their own workplace mantra

    • John A Neve says:

      09:41am | 19/02/10

      Macca,

      I would of thought that your question answered it’self !!
      Pete Garrett is not (to the best of my knowledge), a CEO of any company, yes, if the companies involved have a CEO maybe they should be sacked.

      I repeat Peter did not hire these people, did not employ the staff and I would imagine only paid them on written acceptenc of the work by the premises owner.

      No wonder we are becoming NANNY states!!

    • E says:

      09:46am | 19/02/10

      @John A Neve : Im really not Eric

      @Macca: Yeah thats pretty much what I was saying. Unions served a purpose 100 years ago, now theyre just PR companies using their members as pawns

    • John A Neve says:

      09:59am | 19/02/10

      E,

      I am sorry, it’s just that your post was reminiscent of Eric. But if what you say is true?

      The fault lies with the workers, no one else. So you don’t appear to have a very high regard for your fellow Australians, do you?

    • Macca says:

      10:07am | 19/02/10

      @John, Employees may cause industrial accidents, but they are not always at fault.

      Insinuating that the 4 individuals died from their own doing is pretty heartless stuff.

      As for Peter Garrett not being accountable, why bother having government at all if that is there attitude, especially to something as important as workplace safety.

      Australian’s should be comfortable with the notion that there are proper regulations in place to ensure they will make it home from work each night. Because of the rushed rollout of Garrett’s Scheme, 4 individuals didn’t

      @E, I think Unions still have a place in the workplace, but lets not believe all this fantasty about them representing the interests of the worker.

    • Tails says:

      08:30am | 19/02/10

      FFS. Who in their right mind would post an article up on The Punch? Unless of course they’re busting to have it graded and disseminated by halfwits. Saying that, a lot of “opinion” pieces of late have been either purposefully inflammatory, or just plain stupid. A quick reminder to everyone to read who these stories are coming from (in this case, a former adviser to both Peter Costello and John Howard) might help reduce the nation’s need for blood pressure medication. Stop taking the bait people. Move on.

      Reply

    • Frederick says:

      08:32am | 19/02/10

      Good summary David Gazard.

      Perhaps overly kind to Rudd’s condonation of Conroy’s out of control and endless waste of taxpayers’ money. His complete absence of ‘rigorous cost benefit analysis’ for his National Broadband Network, collapse of the tender process, a mere waste of $17 million. His nepotistic appointment of ‘mate’ Kaiser at $450000. per year for a ‘spin’ job in NBN.

      Taxpayers will never know the $ billions already wasted on NBN nor on its future costs.

      At the same time, Conroy continues to waste $ millions on Internet Censorship. He presents only complete silence or dissimulation or outright lies about this scheme.

      The ambit of the censorship scheme changes daily - new complexities are discovered which require technical solutions - more studies - more test and ever more taxpayers’ dollars.

      The effect of the scheme will be to slow down the vaunted speeds of NBN and reduce its utility with erroneous blacklisting of legal sites.

      The fundamental purpose of Internet censorship is to deny attempts to criticise government.

      Reply

    • Terry says:

      08:42am | 19/02/10

      labor have been shown to be useless time & time again State or Federally they are incompetent.
      Tractor production is up comrade.

      Reply

    • T.Chong says:

      09:25am | 19/02/10

      Great !!!!!, ...............,.wait a minute Terry,  are you just tricking ?
      Well at least the workers would have been paid their award, without having to compete against each other, or threatened with sacking if their children were sick.
      Makes me proud to drive one to our turnip field. A large load of fertiliser (old LNP policies about decency and inclusiveness is on its way.These old docos would date from Fraser years, when the party did have some type of social resposibility, and not just to its corporate masters )
      “Green(ie) Acres is the place to be…...”

    • DWest says:

      08:48am | 19/02/10

      @frederick and like Abbott being puppeted by the Christian Right won’t continue with the censorship? Have you any evidence that Abbott is free speech? Didn’t think so. Abbott’s silence speaks volumes.

      Reply

    • KM says:

      08:55am | 19/02/10

      I love they way labor people jump to the defense of the indefensible. This government has a duty of care when administering such a large amount of money to projects. Of this nature, to rush out huge amounts of money in this way was always going to attract dodgy contractors. If they did not see this coming they are negligent! If they did see it they are incompetent. Either way the Rudd government is trying to shirk its responsibility for there f@$# up.

      Reply

    • Frederick says:

      09:19am | 19/02/10

      DWest sees that which he wishes to see.

      “The fundamental purpose of Internet censorship is to deny attempts to criticise government.”

      In Rudd speak: I make no apology for unequivocal non specificity regarding party of ‘Government’ or even sphere of government, Federal or State.

      The fundamental purpose of internet censorship remains the same and once in place - very difficult to remove.

      Reply

    • T.Chong says:

      10:14am | 19/02/10

      Freddy: glad you brought communications to the fore.
      Remember how bad Conroy is for ” palling around” with media moguls?
      Well everyone, take a very very quick second to check out The ABC news site. ( Punch Moderator, I promise to bring everyone back here as soon as they see the article about Abbott and News Corp boss, OK? )
      It appears Abbott has been doing the exact same thing.
      Well, I never would have picked Abbott as a hypocrit, its just the LNP was so very quiet   about Abbott and Ruperts meeting, while attacking Conroy.

    • Macca says:

      09:27am | 19/02/10

      Can someone explain to me why they think Garret should keep his job?

      If a major construction or mining company had 4 people die on a particular project, The Unions would not only be asking for the CEO to be sacked, but for him to go to jail and the company be fined hundreds of thousands of dollars. The Executives may not have had anything to do with the project, but they are ultimately accountable for safety of their workers in a workplace.

      Any good leader of a major project understands that injuries are unacceptable, let alone deaths, and failure to prevent accidents means you could have done your job better.

      Garrett has completely ingnored one of the fundamental ideologies of the Labor Party by failing to acknowledge his responsibility for keeping Australian Workers safe.

      Reply

    • Tim says:

      09:52am | 19/02/10

      Are you serious?
      Should the transport minister be sacked if someone dies on a road?
      The people that died were not following proper work procedures that were clearly set out. They did not have the proper training from their employers.
      Now, last time I looked the government wasn’t responsible for how individual companies conduct their safety training.
      Should the scheme have been better organised and run? of course it should have. The government were stupid and should have ensured that less companies were accredited.
      But to suggest that a minister should be responsible for an individual companies’ OHS is ridiculous.

    • John A Neve says:

      10:04am | 19/02/10

      Macca,

      Simple answer, there is no way Peter Garrett could or should be held responsible.

    • Macca says:

      10:10am | 19/02/10

      @Tim, so you honestly believe the program should not hae been slowed down, or stopped, despite the 13 warnings to Garrett’s office, to ensure proper installation procedures were carried out?

      We must have our homes insulated now! And a few dozen house fires and a couple of deaths are an acceptable consequence of slightly lowering our carbon emissions and keeping a few tradies in jobs?

    • JR says:

      10:12am | 19/02/10

      Not part of a government scheme. However if the government backs a government scheme to say build a bridge, with the buiolding of the bridge with the department of transports money, and approved by the government, and the bridge falls down and kills people, or is found to make the road unsafe, you do not believe the department can be held responsible? Based on your logic, government departments cannot be held responsible for anything.

    • Macca says:

      10:14am | 19/02/10

      @Tim, regarding Transport Minister,

      If you were driving a car, no, but if you were performing maintenance on a public train line and there were not adequate safety provisions in place, then yes.

      As for Individual Companies, if a contractor died whilst building Conroy’s NBN, should the Senator not be ultimately accountable for that.

      Howard dismissed 13 ministers during his time. Rudd should know when he has a lame duck

    • Macca says:

      10:16am | 19/02/10

      @JR, agreed

    • John A Neve says:

      10:22am | 19/02/10

      JR,

      Your analogy is all wrong. What we are talking about here is private companies. You are talking about government departments!!!

      Come on JR, get with it.

    • JR says:

      10:42am | 19/02/10

      John Neve
      Are you saying governement departments do not hire private companies to do their construction on roads? Please refer me to the department in the government where the workers actually physically building the roads are paid directly via the government, and are considered Federal or State governement employees, and the instance where this has occured.

    • John A Neve says:

      11:07am | 19/02/10

      JR,

      I never said that at all. But if a department hires outside contractors, it is the contractor that is responsible for the staff employed and the quality of their work.

      There are many recorded cases of government departments and contractors going to court over such issues.

      I repeat yet again there is no way Peter Garrett could or should be held responsible for poor Australian workmanship. No wonder we bring in skilled migrants.

    • Tim says:

      11:15am | 19/02/10

      Macca,
      You are talking about private companies. Do you understand what a private company means?
      “If you were driving a car, no, but if you were performing maintenance on a public train line and there were not adequate safety provisions in place, then yes.”
      Companies are responsible for conforming to OHS regulations. If the government told the company to work in an unsafe environment against OHS regulations then yes the government would be at fault but that is not what happened here.
      There were regulations in place. The individual companies did not follow the regulations, people died. This can only be seen as a failure of private enterprise to obey the regulations that are clearly set out.
      Sure the government should have been overseeing the scheme better but to suggest these deaths are in any way Garrets fault is silly.

    • Tim says:

      11:19am | 19/02/10

      JR,
      by your logic any deaths that come from government money are the governments responsibility.
      If a woman receives the baby bonus and buys a dodgy product that kills her child would the government be responsible?

    • JR says:

      11:49am | 19/02/10

      John Neve
      And the government department is responisble for who they tender the contract to when they are using government money. If they back a plan which has an unacceptable probability of failure, they should be held responsible. Just like a construction firm employee can be held responisble for who they hire. A manager can get the sack for hiring inept employees, and righfully so. This was a government backed scheme, with money coming from the tax payer (you can get into semantics if you like, but there is no difference between providing money before or after the fact). They are responsible for who they allow to implement the scheme. If they are not, how do they have the power to suspend companies, as happened during the week from performing work for it? If it is shown that the scheme was fraught with high risk and should never have been backed in the first place, then whoever backed it must also take responsibility. It does not matter whether it is a contract or full time employment, if it is government (our) money, we have a right to hold them accountable for how they spend it. And I will until the day I die.

      Tim
      If it can be found that there was high risk unwarranted for the contract to participate in the government backed scheme in the first place, then yes they should be one of the organisations held responsible. If it can be found there was unforseeable circumstances which occured that resulted in a death, I would not hold the government resonsible. Do you feel that is the case here? To answer your analogy, there is no forseeable reason to withold the money in it so it is not the same case.

    • Tim says:

      12:13pm | 19/02/10

      JR,
      there is not a large amount of inherent risk in installing batts.
      It is a simple job that nearly anyone could do.
      That was the whole point of the scheme, to get money into the economy quickly from a low skill base job while helping lower power costs for households as a side benefit.
      The installers were required to be accredited which did require training. There was regulation in place to control the installers.
      The fact that the installers then hired people and did not pass on the training that was required and did not follow the regulation makes the installer liable.
      As I said before the government should have managed the accreditation of installers better, but this in no way makes them liable or responsible for these deaths.
      If it did, then any scheme where the government gives out money to private enterprise should be stopped just in case someone dies.

    • JR says:

      12:37pm | 19/02/10

      Tim
      The problem isnt the Batts, it is the foil insulation. That has been found to be dangerous, if it wasn’t why has Garrett now announced a halt to the scheme?
      Agree the installer is liable, as is the department who gave them the go ahead to implement their scheme, The inherent risk was in the policy, as it made it such that proper regulation was made far too difficult. And as you state, regulation was required as all installers had to be trained.
      I am not saying the government, or more specifically Garretts department, and as its minister Garrett himself is criminally liable for the deaths, Im saying they are liable for implementing a very poor policy, one which was so poorly managed as well that he has to take responsibility for it by stepping down, or being sacked. The amount of money that has now been thrown down the drain with it warrants it.

    • Tim says:

      01:04pm | 19/02/10

      JR,
      There is no problem or danger with the foil insulation in and of itself. In a lot of circumstances foil insulation is more effective than batts and i would suggest that the scheme has been suspended more for political expediency than any inherent danger in foil insulation.
      The problem has been created by dodgy electricians putting electrical cables on the top of roof joists instead of on the side as required by australian standard and inexperienced insulation installers not checking where they are using their staple gun.
      There is no way the minister can be blamed for a series of dodgy tradesmen who have completed unsafe work in the roof spaces of many homes.
      The scheme should not have been rolled out as fast as it was but the economic conditions at the time warranted it.
      If a government minister was sacked everytime they made a mistake, we would have a pretty empty front bench.

    • JR says:

      02:00pm | 19/02/10

      Tim
      I am not versed in insulation so in regards to foil being safe i can accept that.
      Political expedeincy, I agree, as it is as clear as day that this should have been done months ago as it has now been reported that the co-ordinator general of SA conveyed his concerns on the auditing process of the scheme back in February last year to a member of the cabinet & prime minister, We have also found out that a risk assesment on the program was not begun until 2 months after the scheme began, and that the indurties reccomendation that the rollout occur over a period of 5 to 10 years was ignored, and that the government wanted to have it done in 2.5. It has been reported they were also advised in August 2008 that the sector was poorly regulated and required third party certification was required to ensure product and installation quality.. If any of these reprts are accurate, and honestly they probably are, any one is grounds for dismissal. And if the PM was also aware, him too.

      You agree the scheme was rolled out too quickly, and it cost lives. How many was it worth for the economic value?

      Not much economic value in throwing away money either.

      And as far as mistakes go this not just a standard mistake, it was one caused by gross negligence.

      I understand you are backing him on a principle, that ministers cannot be expected to micromanage. But ensuring a policy is risk checked before being implemented and heeding warnings given to you by experts on said policy is not micromanaging on the part of the minister, it is his job.

    • E says:

      09:55am | 19/02/10

      The whole insulation thing was always a bad idea economically, but was ok politics so KRudd demanded it in his desperate attempt to force people to talk to him.
      Obviously such a low skilled business is going to attract dodgy contractors, always has, always will.
      It was always obvious the increased demand for batts would overwealm the local manufacturers and cause importation of batts from China.
      The lack of accredited training was a big gap.
      Furthermore its going to decimate the insulation industry once its pulled. Insulation demand is made up of 2 major factors: new construction, existing construction.
      This scheme is consuming future demand in existing construction, and we will see good compaines go broke once the government money runs out.

      But politically it was jobs for the low skilled and some Labor mates, plus it ‘sounded good’.

      Im pretty sure once you factor in the 10 year lifespan of insulation and associated energy savings and then compare that number to the energy consumed in transporting the batts from China it will be a net loss environmentally.

      Was there a cost benifit analysis done? Energy expenditure vs energy saved? CO2 audit? Nope, this is the ALP. They only pay attention to evidence which suits their political agenda.

      Has anyone noticed how for a PM who claims to like ‘evidence based policy’ there is little evidence for any analysis?
      Wheres the evidence that a 250m gift to the dinosaur TV networks is required?

      Garrett should go because if he had acted on advice earlier, lives would have been saved. But he sacrificed 4 young Australians for the ALP politcal ambition.

      Reply

    • Jane says:

      12:09pm | 19/02/10

      Absolutely spot on E

    • AdamC says:

      10:03am | 19/02/10

      I was actually prepared to give Garrett the benefit of the doubt on this batts scheme disaster but, as we hear more about the warnings he received, my sympathy is starting to evaporate. He should have considered the effect of the injection of such a vast amount of cash into a small industry. He also should have done a better job at restricting the fly-by-nighters who were lured to the subsidies.

      There is, of course, the possibility that Swan and Rudd simply rammed the insulation rebate idea through cabinet as a quick and dirty stimulus option and are now making Garrett eat the backlash. Nobody seems to be talking too much about that, though.

      Reply

    • Macca says:

      10:21am | 19/02/10

      @Adam, you think Swan has dodged a bullet / used Garrett as a shield?

    • AdamC says:

      11:10am | 19/02/10

      Macca, it makes sense, doesn’t it? The batts idea was always presented as an economic stimulus measure. At the height of the GFC, the Keynesian ALP brains trust were hardly likely to listen to any ‘But, what about?‘s from a junior environment minister.

    • slugger says:

      10:14am | 19/02/10

      a few bloggers have stated,that the punch seems to be getting as biased as trhe australian,could that be because rupert owns them.and having worked in the insulation industry for 4 years,i can assure you that garret is not responsible,as it is the lazy incompetent workers and there near enougth is good enougth attitude..just ask yourselves what kind of a moron would place a pink bat on top of a downlight.let alone fire staples into electric cables.you can train people for months and it will make no difference.if they are shonks they will stay that way..

      Reply

    • Horizons says:

      11:22am | 19/02/10

      Thank you Sir, I find this reporting not only bias but inacurrate, the bloke who stated about OHS is correct and any worker or employer who is not aware of OHS is a fool. Shonky wokmanship has sadly caused this whole problem, and deaths ocurred because of it. Tony Abbott makes outlandish statements without much fact and when hes queried on it he quietly retracts but the media is not intrested in that. Sadly hes influenced alot of gullible kids who come here, there hero has feet of clay which responsible adults know. I feel sorry for Peter Garret who has warn the brunt of this. Any political point scoring is ok for the Liberals as long as they are not hurt. My Favourite Abott bungle was when he attacked Rudd because people in Western Australia could not pay their electricity bill, he forgot its a Liberal run state and it had nothing to do with Kevin Rudd or Labor. He gave me a mile wide smile that day, talk about putting your foot in your mouth

    • Mark says:

      12:13pm | 19/02/10

      Cheers slugger. Proved the point of the article. It obviously is those “lazy incompetent workers” that are to blame. Great stuff there. Why don’t you give the parents of the kids killed a tingle on the blower and let them know that all is well, just spread the news not to be a lazy incompetent and you will survive that venture into the workplace? There that will fix it and repair the grief.

      Really if you cannot put the dots together and see the connection between over the top rushed stimulus with next to no management of the funds, combined with the denial of listening to industry safety warnings then I do not know what to tell you.

      Fact. Without the cash handout the 4 who have died would have been alive. Maybe jobless, but alive. That is all. If you are going to stimulate an industry to the extent that Labor did a small amount of thought process is required at the least.

      Again the point of the article is how Labor is ducking and weaving going so far as to the same as you balme everyone but themselves and using spin to justify the indefensible. Rudd indeed has no clothes.

      Stop the balme game indeed. Tragically it is not funny or a political point scoring exercise. it is about mismanagement that cost 4 people their lives and has injured others and destroyed homes.

    • Kim says:

      02:07pm | 19/02/10

      Mark, Labor and thought processes don’t really belong together in the same sentence…..  smile

    • matt says:

      10:30am | 19/02/10

      So if your doctor amputates your leg by mistake the Health Minister is responsible because you claim money back under a Medicare rebate, which she administers?

      Reply

    • JR says:

      11:57am | 19/02/10

      If the Health minister brings into law that the doctor must guess which leg needs to be amputated, Yes. Or a less extreme and more accurate analogy, if the health minister implements a system in government hospitals which cause clercial errors to become far more likely, even probable, and due to a clerical error this occurs. I would hold whoever implemented that system responsible, as it created an unacceptable risk.

    • Mark says:

      03:11pm | 19/02/10

      Or if the minister tosses a bucket load of cash at creating free leg amputations for all and then receives warning that, hey, gee whizz, lots of people might take this up and all you got to do to be a leg cutter is register here and say you read some guidelines. Then igonre safety warnings from, like, you know, real doctors and people in the industry.

      And then do it anyway. Ignore more warnings. And then do it some more.

      And when it is time to say oops - my bad, pull the scheme with a text message and say all is well I got a better idea after a few billion is flushed down the drain.

      Yeh - I would blame the minister and The PM too.

      Quick quizz. If it was only the shinkies fault - why pull the scheme. This scheme was good remember, the minister is fine according to Kevin. they were helping the environment. They were saving us from global warming (hahahahahahaha).  Why pull it so suddenly?

      Go on you can say it…....

    • Flubber says:

      10:33am | 19/02/10

      Now I get it, when you look at David Gazzard’s bio below, he is a professional spinner and former staff member in Howard and Costello’s offices.

      Reply

    • T.Chong says:

      10:48am | 19/02/10

      And a siren chaser who worked for Conrad Black. That would have been all the pre-reqs he needed to work for Howard and Costello.

    • Agblaster says:

      10:45am | 19/02/10

      That’s it, Flubber. Always check the bio. Always.

      Often revealing, in sometimes unintended ways!

      Reply

    • David says:

      11:19am | 19/02/10

      Gee, no flies on you blokes, are there? You managed to discover the bio that I posted, you super sleuths. You’re on to me and the vast Right wing conspiracy.

    • Harquebus says:

      10:53am | 19/02/10

      Voting for the major parties seems to be choosing the lesser of two evils. Unfortunately, the average Aussie, like its US counterpart, is an ignorant moron and can’t see through the spin. We are doomed.

      Reply

    • Henry says:

      11:09am | 19/02/10

      Written by a true Labor voter. 

      Every single person that makes the comment as yours that I have heard is a Labor voter. 

      It seems to be a way of justifying voting for Labor ‘coz the other guys are just the same’.  The differences are huge.  If you don’t know this then you really shouldn’t vote at all.  This is exactly why we have Rudd.

      And no the Greens don’t count.  They are simply a vote for Labor.

    • Harquebus says:

      12:31pm | 19/02/10

      I haven’t voted Labor or Liberal since 2000 when, Kim Beazley and the Labor Party voted with John Howard and the Liberals to give the ADF the power to shoot us.
      Henry, expressing your assumptions like that, what can I say? Grow up.

    • matt stewart says:

      01:13pm | 19/02/10

      Henry, how is a vote for Greens a vote for Labor?  If people are too dumb to work out preferential voting and make their own choices, they are by definition, too dumb to vote.

    • luke says:

      11:13am | 19/02/10

      The unions silence shows they don’t care about workers, they only care about the money from workers. If Peter Garrett was a coalition minister they would have blockaded parliament house as a sign of support to the people whose homes burned down, the injured and killed employees. The accidents happened and were outlined as a possibilty before Peter Garrett gave the go ahead for the insulation program. He ignored many warnings from many people, the end result of people dying and houses burning down is partly due to him not heeding those warnings. Rudd is a fool if he doesn’t sack Peter Garrett.

      Reply

    • Flipflop says:

      11:29am | 19/02/10

      The Unions don’t need to communicate to you Your not a union member,  they communicate to their member’s who are not fools and can see whats happening for themselves.. they say ignorance is bliss but in your case it might be dangerous. You need to study the laws look up on google OHS. You may be in for a surprise.

    • persephone says:

      11:33am | 19/02/10

      Provide evidence of Garrett NOT heeding a warning. Everything I’ve read says he responded to them.

      And, btw, not one of the workers killed belonged to a union.

    • luke says:

      11:56am | 19/02/10

      To flipfop & persephone,  regarding they were not union members, I’ll admit my mistake(ignorance) and unions only protect people who pay for protection. Peter Garrett did not heeded all warnings mentioned to him prior and should have acted more decisively after the first accident.

    • JR says:

      12:02pm | 19/02/10

      And that is good enough? Just responding? Don’t worry about responding in the appropriate manner. At least you have admitted that he does have a responsibility. So his response was good enough for you? His response was completley incompetent as it resulted in a death.

    • persephone says:

      01:00pm | 19/02/10

      OK, JR, responded in an appropriate manner - there’s actually media releases out there from some of the complainants lauding the quickness and appropriateness of Garrett’s response.

      In all four cases, as far as I can tell, basic safety standards were not followed. In the case of the last electrocution, for example, the worker was using materials that Garrett had already banned.

      And no, that’s not the fault of the workers, but their supervisors, whose responsibility it is to know the workplace laws and conform to them.

    • luke says:

      01:30pm | 19/02/10

      persephone, there is evidence that Peter Garrett’s Department of Environment failed to heed warnings, it is written in The Australian today, from what I can gather there are quite a few denials and he said they said statements between the PM’s office and that of Peter Garrett’s Department of Environment and others.  You can read it to suit your argument but I read it as, Peter Garrett was slow to act and did not heed the warnings. Peter Garrett’s announcement today, cancelling the insulation program as implemented proves Peter Garrett ignored the warnings, otherwise why change it now.

    • JR says:

      02:05pm | 19/02/10

      Took the words right out of my mouth Luke.

    • persephone says:

      03:19pm | 19/02/10

      Garrett has gone through (exhaustively) all the warnings he received and how he responded. The media hasn’t been able to demonstrate any (to my knowledge) that he didn’t respond to.

      Which is why Garrett is still there; he has demonstrated that he has acted responsibly throughout, which is more than can be said for some of the operators.

    • iansand says:

      11:16am | 19/02/10

      State responsibility for everything seems very like the worst form of Communism to me.  Can everybody asserting that Garret has some responsibility for these sad deaths do a quick check of what is written on your party membership cards?  You may be in the wrong party.

      Reply

    • JR says:

      12:39pm | 19/02/10

      What? Do you know what communism is?

    • matt stewart says:

      01:09pm | 19/02/10

      JR, please enlighten us

    • iansand says:

      01:58pm | 19/02/10

      Please note the capital “C” and use of the words “worst form”.

    • JR says:

      02:15pm | 19/02/10

      A communist society that has a state governement is no longer a communist society at all. Not following you on the capital c.

    • Matt stewart says:

      02:46pm | 19/02/10

      Oh, so you actually mean real, pure, Marxian communism. How refreshing.  Unforunately this debate alwaysgets clouded by people who label various forms of socialism as communism, and various socialist states as communist.  I have to assume that iansand means socialism, and I have to lament that your purist defintion of communism is now somewhat anachronistic.

    • iansand says:

      03:12pm | 19/02/10

      Do try to keep up, JR.  What are/were the governing (only) parties in China and USSR called, but they sure as heck aren’t little “c” communist.

    • JR says:

      04:23pm | 19/02/10

      China and the USSR aren’t communist at all. They just liked/like to call themselves that. As matt Stewart pointed out, the word communist gets lumped into Socialism so much these days people do not even know the difference.But anyway this is well off topic, to be honest I was just nit picking and it was a stupid post in the context of the article. Sorry

    • iansand says:

      06:32pm | 21/02/10

      JR - You seem not to be as stupid as appears from first impressions.  Which is damning with faint praise.

    • jamie says:

      11:17am | 19/02/10

      Has anyone here actually worked in a federal government grants program? Do you have any idea how it all works?

      From all the comments i’d say no.

      Reply

    • The real no spin zone says:

      11:36am | 19/02/10

      It would appear,based on recent articles on The Punch we are seeing the same tactics by conservatives in Australia as are being used by the Fox news network in America. I await the wave of lies and deception from all news limited media outlets across this country in the lead up to the next election. Why else would Abbott be meeting with Murdoch at this point in time.
      Hearing Abbott say that Rupert Murdoch is a “great Australian” (now American citizen) shows that these people will say and try anything to get back into power. Any one with half a brain can see where Gazard’s leanings lay. By the way I think Davids bio photo speaks volumes about the man. Something about eyes being the window to the soul. Didn’t he have a moustache in a previous life?

      Reply

    • Peter says:

      04:38pm | 19/02/10

      Typical Left.  Lose the logical argument and attack personally.
      real no spin zone obviously believes the Fairfax media and ABC are totally unbiased.

    • E says:

      11:39am | 19/02/10

      @jamie: no we have real jobs.

      @iansand: yeah thats a good point, I got so carried away with ALP bashing I forgot im into personal responsibility.

      I think the LIB/LAB dog that wont hunt gets filed under : ‘People get the democracy they earn’.

      Reply

    • exzilerate says:

      11:51am | 19/02/10

      Of course Peter Garrett should be exonerated and the real criminals pursued - that is the actual Installers of the Insulation that was poorly installed in the first place. Basic stuff. Abbott and co are just trying to score cheap political points - tawdry points at that ! A weak man that Abbott and not to be trusted !

      Reply

    • Carl Palmer says:

      12:03pm | 19/02/10

      I don’t think there were 4 deaths or 90 odd fires in the 2 or 3 years prior to the rebate been introduced by the Federal Govt. Furthermore, if they weren’t responsible, why would the various bodies including the NSW Govt have highlighted the potential problem - a year ago, directly to the Federal Govt. Didn’t the Govt specifically Chris Bowen say that whenever there was an issue it was addressed by the Minister? If it wasn’t his responsibility then why did he have to fix it?

      No brainer it was his responsibility and he and the PM know it. It was this Govt’s program and it is their responsibility to ensure that it is executed according to the appropriate standards. And let’s not mention the cost of this whole exercise which is been paid for via you and me by the Federal Government.

      What’s more, Julia’s comment about Garrett being in every roof was for someone touted a being a potential PM dumb. Julia, saying nothing was the smart move.

      As for the PM, all over the place like a mad chooks breakfast….That Neo Liberalism speech was the scariest doc I’ve read (scarier than the Woof Creek movie) an thank god he was consistent – he did nothing. Lot’s of CO2 from this mob, they should shut up and get on with delivering their long list of promises. But then again, if they can’t organise the installation of pink bats or the delivery of notebooks ( yes you also need cabling, software, support etc etc etc ……)  then it probably is best for the country that they maintain their status quo – continue to generate more CO2 because its certainly safer and cheaper.

      Reply

    • Helen says:

      12:11pm | 19/02/10

      That article was a joke…?...Right…?

      If not, George Orwell is spinning in his grave.

      Reply

    • Flubber says:

      12:12pm | 19/02/10

      I see David G. has tried to apply the mockers to me in an attempt to devalue the line I had drawn about his affiliations and biases wrt info contained in his bio.
        Nice try, but no cigar, David.
        There is no ‘vast Right Wing conspiracy’,  as you say, just a series of conservative opinion leaders, such as yourself, who try to hide their light under the bushell of ‘reasonable comment’.

      Reply

    • Mark says:

      12:17pm | 19/02/10

      Pot meet kettle.

      The left doesn’t hold the keys to Utopia behind their social engineering and mothering framed as reasonable comment.

    • agblaster says:

      01:42pm | 19/02/10

      Yep, Flubber.

      And he canned a sharp riposte from me. Smart aleck.  No points from me, David G.

      Anyway, I’ve had a pretty good go here today on a bunch of threads. Facts win over distortion and smart alecks any day. I’m off.

    • coxy says:

      12:34pm | 19/02/10

      I didn’t vote for Kev, but when he was elected I was relatively happy. I thought, ah it won’t be so bad, he’s an economic conservative, Lindsay Tanner knows a thing or two about finance, Kate Ellis is ok looking, we’ll get a few lingering issues tidied up like the sorry thing and Kyoto, so they’ll be alright for a couple of terms. But they have been really really bad. Has their been one thing they haven’t messed up? About the most useful and successful thing they’ve done has been that schools website thing which really is minor in the scheme of all their responsibilities. The media has been in love with Rudd right from the word go, but are slowly starting to take the rose coloured glasses off. It will be interesting.

      Reply

    • Dingo says:

      12:48pm | 19/02/10

      The Rudd government has consistently claimed credit for avoiding recession through their stimulus package. If you claim credit for the result of your actions when it’s positive, you also have to take the blame for the negative results.

      There is no dispute about cause and affect. The Rudd government’s funding provided a direct incentive for people to go around putting insulation in anyone’s home for a guaranteed payment of $1,600 no matter how big or small the job and no matter how it was done. People with experience in the industry warned of several issues that were likely to arise. Instead of pausing to do their due diligence, they rushed ahead with the program and the issues they were warned about have come to fruition. 

      That means the Minister responsible for the program, is also responsible for its consequences.

      Reply

    • John A Neve says:

      02:57pm | 19/02/10

      Dingo,

      You have made the most stupid comment of all time. “There is no dispute about cause and affect”. I like it, what you are saying is if governments do nothing they cannot be blamed?

      Stand for parliament Dingo, you’ll get my vote I don’t think.

    • Mark says:

      12:50pm | 19/02/10

      News at 11.

      Garrett stops batt program.

      Of course we all know that this is not an admission that something perhaps was the tiniest bit bit wrong in its implementation.

      The spin on this will be great. Cannot wait to here it all. Garrett has to go and Rudds judgement again hazs proven from ideal.

      The whole mess stinks.

      Reply

    • Carl Palmer says:

      01:11pm | 19/02/10

      Just in case there’s any more doubt – from the smh

      The federal government will scrap its free home insulation program and replace it with a rebate scheme in an attempt to weed out shonky operators and unsafe installers.

      The key words here are “its” “shonky” and “unsafe installers”.

      Reply

    • EnoughISEnough says:

      01:11pm | 19/02/10

      The reason that the Federal Government must accept responsibility for the tragic and disastrous insulation roll out under their stimulus plan, is simple, they registered the organisations through which the rebate would be claimed.

      This meant that the rebate was suddenly able to be accessed through ‘fly by night’ operators, as the well known and safe operators simply could not cope with the consumer demand that followed the rebate announcement.

      The Department, and Garrett as the Minister responsible, were warned by the State and Territory governments, the union movement, industry groups etc… etc… that allowing untested and untried operators into the roofs could have fatal consequences.

      Garrett and his department, under pressure to continue with the stimulus, ignored the warnings and allowed the rebate to continue.

      Even after the first house fires caused by electrified roofs occurred and further warnings issued, Garrett still refused the stop the rebate.

      Even after the first death and continued warnings that more deaths would occur and over 80 house fires, still the rebate continued.

      Now we have nearly 100 fires, 37,000 houses that need to be inspected, over 1000 confirmed cases of electrified roof’s, 4 deaths, and still the program goes on…

      This is not a case of “If a CEO did this or that… he would be charged…” This is a case of clear Ministerial incompetence that has led to tragedy and put plainly and simply, Garrett as the Minister responsible for this debacle must either resign or be sacked.

      As for those that have run these companies and used the incompetence of the Minister and his department to make a quick buck and in doing so put the lives of their workers and the community in jeopardy, no doubt the authorities will deal with them and they should be prosecuted and to the full extent of the law and the courts will determine their fate.

      Both those that allowed unsafe work conditions and the government that ignored this action are to blame and there should be consequences for all parties, and that is a fact that should not even require debate.

      Reply

    • John A Neve says:

      02:44pm | 19/02/10

      Enough is Enough,

      Do you know for a fact that the federal government “registered the organisations”?

      I doubt that very much, I would have thought that they would have been registered by the state they were in?

      Do you in fact have any idea what you are talking about?

    • EnoughIsEnough says:

      03:07pm | 19/02/10

      Well let me see John, yes I do know for a fact that in order to knock on the door of your house and offer you the scheme the companies had to register with the Dept of Environment.

      That is why today at the cancellation of the rebate the government has been contacting companies who are registered with them to tell them the rebate is no more and they will have to register under the new scheme.

      How else did you think the rebate was going to be paid to them, how else could they control people from committing fraud against the rebate, of they were registered you peanut.

      It is why the State and Federal Governments had no control over who was in the roof’s of houses across the States, as they had no control over the scheme, there were no safety requirements put onto the companies who registered.

      Seriously, do you have any clue at all as to what is happening or are so desperate to defend your political sensibilities that you cannot see gross incompetence when it is right in front of your face.

    • TC says:

      06:32pm | 21/02/10

      You cant say it the stimulus hasnt created jobs though can you. We’re going to need a heap of new inspectors and 4 new and improved installers

    • Jane says:

      01:13pm | 19/02/10

      So now it’s stopped.
      An admission of failure…..and an admission of failure to stop it all this time while being called to do so…

      The word is out at ALP central….‘shut it down - it’s hurting us in an election year’......carrying more importance than - because it IS actually a failure - no doubt as it’s taken so long….but both reasons are evidenced by this announcement.

      As it’s an admission of failure then Garrett should also be sacked forthwith.

      Reply

    • John A Neve says:

      03:12pm | 19/02/10

      Jane,

      i am not into party politics, but if we sacked all pollies who “failed” we’d have a parliament half it’s current size.

      The real problem is, that the armies of Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum keep voteing them back in.

      Are all Australians masochists?

    • Chewy says:

      01:22pm | 19/02/10

      People out there are actually starting to say “what has Rudd done?” Expect more spin and hard hats in 2010 a la Bob Carr mode. Another empty 2020 summit perhaps? Critics can say what they want about Howard but the man was a doer.

      Reply

    • Botfly says:

      02:05pm | 19/02/10

      John Howard was a doer alright mate, he lied about Iraq and chemical wepons and children overboard, bought in work choice and had half of Australia having time off work to protest it..yes he definatly was a doer thank goodness hes done and gone. Now we have his big mouthed clone Tony Abbot in the race..should be fun to see the result.

    • BensonBird says:

      02:08pm | 19/02/10

      And exactly how do you know what people are asking? you spoke to us all have ya?  they got rid of work choices and thats all I need to know for now. Each person has his or her reasons for voting. We are not clones we live in a democracy and we each make our own choice

    • Chewy says:

      02:59pm | 19/02/10

      @Botfly, exactly! Love him or loath him the man was a doer. Yes sir he relied on ‘intelligence advice’ about Iraq just like Rudds pal Blair did, and as you know Rudd would of done the same. Children overboard PLEASE its as lame AWB, the only people who gave a rats a%$ was froth at the mouth lefties like yourself and ABC journos sympathetic to your cause. Perhaps in years to come we shall froth over ‘Garretts bats’.  As for the evil ‘work choices’ anyone who runs a small business (like myself) knows Labour reform is necessary.
      @BensonBird, Did I say I had spoken to everybody? I am well aware we live in a democracy champ and people can vote regardless of intelligence. You are living proof of this.

    • Frankie says:

      05:36pm | 19/02/10

      What an extremly bias website, I am a bit shock and horrified this is Australian. I have Foxtel and I have seen the Punch on Foxtel news channel. I will ring tomorrow and put in a complaint..I pay for Foxtel and I am not paying for anyones bias to be shoved down my neck..very disapointing. I am capable of making my own mind, who gets my votes in the ballot box and for what reasons

    • Morris says:

      01:58pm | 19/02/10

      @Slugger, Horizons, T.Chong - Whether you agree with it or not, surely David is entitled to write his piece, and The Punch to publish it (if they choose), irrespective of whether it could objectively be considered to contain bias.  The same goes for the Australian, or any other (privately owned) media organisation (including those receiving grubby $1/2 billion election-year kickbacks from Rudd/Conroy).  Notwithstanding you are clearly easily misled, you are presumably still capable of exercising free-will (if not good judgment) and choosing not to read/post (please God).  But then I guess you would have nothing to do all day except watch re-runs of the 7.30 Report and plan for your next tilt at student union president.

      Reply

    • Frankie says:

      02:14pm | 19/02/10

      I think its bias too, they can run what they like and I am sure Hilter was biased as well, I can’t speak for the people you mentioned but I don’t need your sermon thank you. Unlike school kids here I am an adult, I do vote and I make up my own mind. You might wish to go and study OHS , your obviously very ignorant of the law. Don’t let me influence you ..go read yourself

    • Rancid Polecat says:

      02:50pm | 19/02/10

      Frankie what is your point?  Was that supposed to be a response to Morris, or something completely random.  I am concerned with your admission that you are old enough to vote.  BTW I see Godwin’s Law is proven yet again:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin’s_law .

    • Disgruntled Voter says:

      02:23pm | 19/02/10

      After voting Rudd in I feel sick at the governments inaction, media spin and irresponsable spending. I honestly though he would be a good change and give some balance back to the country.
      What annoys me the most is he can’t admit when there is a problem in his government. I yearn for the day when we sack half the politicians double their pay and replace these monkeys running the shop.
      Rudd has to go and don’t even get me started on NSW labour…

      Reply

    • BensonBird says:

      02:44pm | 19/02/10

      Don’t worry mate it wasn’t only your vote, so one vote less won’t be much of a miss. There are many like me who think hes done well in the Global Crisis and he got rid of workchoices, hes only been in Government for 2 years , The Liberals had 11 years to stuff things up.

    • Chewy says:

      03:32pm | 19/02/10

      @Benson Bird, Yup our fiscal conservative PM has done well with the Global crisis borrowing BILLIONS to hand out $900 dollar cheques, cash for insulation batts that were not installed or worse jerry installed and killed afew or burnt houses down and ofcourse built gymnasiums in schools with as few as one student for the education revolution, prudently done ofcourse by cutting 750 million from his social housing construction project.
      On the subject of housing no doubt aspiring home owners think the temporary raising of the first home owners grant and the relaxation of foreign investment laws for residential property was a stroke of genius in creating a stampede and pushing their dream of owning further away.

    • davo says:

      02:54pm | 19/02/10

      I think that the pink batt issue is a summary of the whole federal government. KDudd is replicating what BCarr did in NSW to a perfect script- run it on the media, control what is released and plan every photo opportunity. Parliament sits next week—mark my words a massive announcement will be made by Dudd in an attempt to divert positive attention back to him and the Government (despite what he thinks, its not HIS government) and I bet anything the spin will come thick and fast, starting most likely Sunday—something big will be placed on the agenda—I just hope everyone see’s right through it.
      But, thankfully the media is now seeing through the spin and lies and recognising the total and utter failure of this Government and thankfully even more so are the people

      Reply

    • E says:

      04:05pm | 19/02/10

      The USA and China stimulus saved us from the GFC, all Rudd did was use it as an excuse to spend up buying key voter demographics and grandstand, same as he does every day.

      Reply

    • John A Neve says:

      04:18pm | 19/02/10

      E,

      Do you really mean what you have posted?
      Even a rabid idiot knows that’s not true. If you believe what you have posted this country is doomed.

      Rightly or wrongly 50% of Australians voted for this government. Rudd is no better or worse than his opposition. Both of them are a reflection of those that support them.

    • Sophie says:

      04:45pm | 19/02/10

      I know that life in Australia is always better under Liberal Government for them.
      Do any of you know things they have done to improve working and living condition for very low or middle class ?
      All they care first is themselves,their mates,their family then private sector.
      They are very good in selling every assets we have and scaring people as boat people arrive.
      Also they have good experience in running concentrations camps and going to wars. Korea,Vietnam,East Timor and the gold medal for Iraq war.
      Did they ever improved health care,education,infrastructure raised pensions and improved living conditions for Aboriginal ,unemployed ,homeless and sick people.
      The list can go on till the cows come home.
      I suggest they have a mirror in front when they start criticising Labour.

      Reply

    • Alosia says:

      08:32pm | 19/02/10

      well said Sophie but I am afraid that mirror would crack. Rudd has had 2 years in the middle of a Global crisis to try to fix the mess, The Liberal Governement had 13 years to taking conditions backwards

    • Jeff says:

      02:51pm | 20/02/10

      So true, I fully agree with you.

    • Frances Samuel says:

      04:52pm | 19/02/10

      It became Peter Garrett’s and Kevin Rudd’s total responsibility after the first death when the program should have been immediately suspended until the undotted I s and uncrossed Ts had been corrected and the whole program thoroughly investigated. 

      Stormy

      Reply

    • Lorraine says:

      04:52pm | 19/02/10

      Ah! If only we could convert ‘spin’ into energy…... Deeds not words Kev!

      Reply

    • Daniel says:

      05:09pm | 19/02/10

      The Australian Labor Party has never been interesed in workers.Anyone that thinks that is dense and dopey.

      Reply

    • Eno says:

      05:11pm | 19/02/10

      A headline - A pretty picture and a Right Wing Liberal Spin Doctor.. Excuse me while I go and do something more important.. like blowing my nose..

      Reply

    • agblaster says:

      06:12pm | 19/02/10

      Poor E.  September to December 2008 too far for his memory to reach. So he remains blissfully unaware that the USA banking system all but froze our commercial finance in its tracks, and that the Chinese had a sharp contraction in activity and finance to master.. .. Heigh ho. So nothing really happened in E-Land.

      Meanwhile, somewhere tediously way up the thread, julia says:04:42pm
      ” Just wanted to ask Ag one more thing: if you hire a man to kill your wife, does that exonerate you from the murder?”

      Julia has trotted out a poorly thought through and rather revolting attempt to poison the argument. Too bad for her, but she plumped for a false analogy. It hasn’t dawned on her that her example implies the blame must lie with the hapless householders.  That won’t do at all.

      No surprise really, as she’d already shown she’s unable to grasp the idea that an employer - even a small one - has a duty of care and a legal responsibility for the safety of their workers and of their clients, the householders. 

      Julia might do better to try a little thought and honesty, instead of clumsy attempts at gotchas, instead of debating club tricks, and without misrepresenting what other posters actually say.

      To end a Friday evening on a lighter yet related note, Julia’s confected bull dust put me in mind of a piece of ripely vintage 1930s political dust-up.

      Nancy, Lady Astor, was a Conservtive MP, for whom Churchill was nothing like far Right enough. She detested him, and in her spite once snapped “Sir, if you were my husband, I’d poison your coffee!”

      Churchill, to his credit, shot back “Madam, If you were my wife, I’d drink it!”

      Really have done here, now.

      Reply

    • Silica says:

      07:08pm | 19/02/10

      How exciting!! The thing to do on a fun Friday Night, pull apart the Government. Same posters commenting all day I bet the majority is to young to even vote. I think Rudd is doing a good job

      Reply

    • Richard Ure says:

      07:23pm | 19/02/10

      So it’s not just privileged bankers who rip us off. The little fellow does it too. Who is left to trust? Journalists?

      The government has not covered itself with glory over this issue. But in adding up deaths who has been responsible for more? Batts or the Coalition of the Willing. Oh, I forgot, it was only Iraqis who died wasn’t it?

      Reply

    • ANY ONE FOR A GAME OF SKIRMISH? says:

      07:33pm | 19/02/10

      Let’s blame the blamer!?!  The Australian Government. The Executive Arm.
      This is the way of our Executive arm of government.  The every day to day operation of the beast.
      Oh really you may say?  I say, get over it. 
      But putting all smart a*** comments aside folks, ‘cause it looks to me from both sides that is,  all of them are fighting to justify their worthiness and ability to hold onto their own seat.  This is their place, their seat, their domain, as if it is ‘to death do us part’. It is their place for reasoning and arguing to all extents, no matter what or who.  Where there are no barriers .  All in an attempt to show us,  (just like the spin-doctor/hungry, sliver-tongue salespersons)  why he/she should keep the job of Government.  Either sides - doesn’t matter which one.

      Does this not remind you of a episode of skirmish!.

      Reply

    • gary says:

      08:17pm | 19/02/10

      I’m sick of the inaccurate reports saying Kevin Rudd is standing by Peter Garrett.What they should be saying is Kevin Rudd is hiding behind Peter Garrett.

      Reply

    • ~Bug Catcher~ says:

      09:00am | 20/02/10

      The Last Word…..maybe!
      The sad truth about this story is that many people took on the crappy hard job of putting the insulation into homes. A friend tried it and quit after several days. It is hot and dangerous and you need to be young and agile.
      There are so few jobs for Australians that many inexperienced guys gave this job a go. Sadly costing them their lives.

      I had a dozen or so people trying to flog insulation to me. The tactics of some of the shonky providers left a little to be desired, but you get this when the Govt is handing out money.

      The last word is…...we don’t have enough jobs for Australian citizens, our unemployment levels are telling the true story.  Unless the Govt hands out money for projects, there is not much hope but the Centrelink option.

      Another reason to halt immigration until we are sustainable and debt free!!
      Only joking!

      Reply

    • Timmo says:

      08:03am | 21/02/10

      Wow!, A lot of abuse going on here, some pretty nasty. Look we’ve got to have someone running the country and really we have only 2 choices don’t we?. I don’t care who does the job really because nothing changes much under either of them. I wrote something the other week on this insulation thingy and put forward my feelings and I think that it was about shoddy workmanship. I was told 2 days ago by the learned agblaster person that I and another commenter should keep my filthy comments on my side of the screen on the Burkah issue. Well I should point out this,,, They, The Punch ask if people want to comment and people choose to write one here. It’s a choice.!  And freedom of speech or writing in this case as is the right of the citizen.
       
        We write the comment and submit it, but we don’t know whether it will be published or not as the Moderator of Punch decides that. So if the Moderator Prints our comment then it must be ok placing it in here, as I should imagine there would be certain legal guidelines regarding what is put in comments. All I have read on here is a lot of anger and insulting of people who submit articles on this topic re. insulation. Not by the Punch but within the comments themselves. But what I can tell you from my experience in the building industries, electrical included, is that, when we put something like a staple or fastener in anywhere, we have to watch carefully what we are doing, and look obviously for any things that are in the way, that may cause accidents, or in this case, death on the job. If you drive in a nail anywhere in ceilings, walls or slabs or even digging outside you have to be aware of electrical cabling, it runs everywhere around the place and there are different size cables carrying different volts and ampres, and if you see cabling in the way then it must be moved out of the way after the power is turned off, or an electrician, hopefully qualified, called in to make the job site safe before continuing up the limpopo so to speak, and they re-checked after completion as well to make sure there is no danger for the inhabitants as well. In the old days there was no way you could fiddle with electric cabling without doing the above but today rank amateurs fiddle with their computers innards for example and other electrical apparatus where there is a danger of death by contact with high voltage and amperage. It’s not the voltage that kills it is the amperage. The law is not inforced enough regarding electricity these days and this should be looked at seriously and inforced. You cannot see electricity and that is why it is dangerous.

        So therefore there should have been qualified electricians on the job in all cases to make the house ceilings safe, before proceeding. This is the responsible and sensible way with all cases of working near power cabling. Only takes one small mistake to bring accidental death on the job, anywhere and anytime, and the electricity doesn’t care as it has no emotional feelings. So it is a tradesmans issue and they, the shonky guys should have been more vigilant and so it seems to me that the owner of the business is more responsible than others. Electricians train under apprenticeship for a number of years and they are the only ones who know how to deal with and isolate 240 volts 10 amps safely. Ask your local sparkie how many close calls and deaths on the job they are aware of,and how those accidents came about,and they will tell you plenty. And it can happen so easily to anyone. One moment we’re here, and blat gone the next and who’s fault is it?. Well I’ll leave it for others to work that out for themselves but I already know. You and I or anyone should never never drive in a nail or staple into a wall or ceiling rafter or batten, concrets slab or in ground before checking whether the power cables are alive. Get a sparkie in, it’s the safest way, and whether you all argue and blame, political point scoring on here or not, it won’t stop deaths by electrocution. Never.!!! And the electric current which will kill you instantly will not consider whether you are a Liberal Zealot or Labour Zealot, and whether you put blame and shame, it will eat your life and keep on keeping on. And that’s really it People. So,be careful, it’s a jungle out there.

      Reply

    • Fog Badger says:

      01:32pm | 21/02/10

      Timmo,

      Thanks for using paragraphs!

      Hurrah!!

      Reply

    • Timmo says:

      07:06pm | 21/02/10

      Fog Badger, Hey you are there ol foggy. Well I took your advice you know on the paragraph issue, so there we are, I did read what you suggested and applied. Yeah!!!  What winners we are over that one. You see I can take advice, that’s good. And good luck to you my friend and adviser. Fog Badger is a goodie, we all knew that anyway. Actually I asked my son how to do it and he looked at me and went duurrr and said press enter and i did and guess what.! Still learning how to use this beastie computer,but i will conquer it one day.

      Reply

    • beautify says:

      05:56am | 30/03/10

      what is this about i don’t understand heheheh whaaa

      Reply
 
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