Julia and Wayne are very angry, but what will they do?

acotrel says:

11:53am | 12/11/10

A minute ago the conservatives were complaining that Peter Garrett hadn’t done enough to regulate the private contractors in the pink batts debacle.  What is Tony Abbott suggesting now - a Stalinist approach to controlling the banks? Whatever happened to the free market neoliberal ideology?  Did that go out the window when the GFC occurred?

Joe says:

12:19pm | 12/11/10

Yep Wayne Swann is pretty useless. He only won his own seat on greens preferences. He is on TV everyday with all that free advertising and still his own vote went backwards… oh now that I think about it… He would do better by hiding his face.

Mattb says:

12:59pm | 12/11/10

Too right acotrel, free market neoliberal ideology, but only when it suites them.

Dash says:

03:09pm | 12/11/10

acotrel, Stalin was a communist dictator who removed members of his party (eg Trotsky) to put himself into power. Seems to me that fit’s better with Jooliya read my socialist forum I fully support PM Rudd Gillard wouldn’t you think?

Btw, are you saying that Peter Garrett did a good job of the pink batts fiasco? Have we stopped paying to clean that mess up yet acotrel?

Greg says:

04:10pm | 12/11/10

I think you will find the banks played the game (i.e didn’t move rates more than reserve bank) while the Libs were in power. Abbott hasn’t said he will take control of the banks by way of legislating against them, it will simply be a return to Howard/Costello days where the banks did what they were told.

Scot says:

11:57am | 13/11/10

Of course it is easy for Labor to bash the banks and lie about the fact they are the route cause of the problem. They have been borrowed $180M per day competing in the same money market as the banks. They along with global governments and banks have forced up the cost of money. Even NSW Labor has $40B in bonds and $10B in debt. The Labor government can print money like the US and sell the paper at the going bond rates (increasing) where as banks cannot. Labor needs to clean up its own act before it wingers about others.

Wayne Fehlhaber says:

08:40am | 12/11/10

Aitch B , i admire your ability to relax with Julia’s economic sword of Damocles suspended over your head. 
Tony Abbott rightly points out that under the Howard/Costello govt. , the banks rarely raised rates above the level of Reserve bank increases.
Further , he makes clear that the current govt. are simply not perceived as economic managers by the Australian busininess sector .
Business has no faith in the govts. ability to exercise economic restraint when requireed to balance settings affecting rate rises.
The unpalatable end result of Labor’s unwillingness to make decisions will be borne by the man & woman in the street , especially low income earners.
Add to this , the continuous back flips on policy , lies and mismanagement we witness daily , result ? - further imbalance in economic settings = further rate rises.
Meanwhile , i think i might join Aitch B in sitting back to watch the disaster unfold. Damocles sword was said to be suspended by a hair over his head , i can identify with that feeling.

Akrasiel Rising says:

09:26am | 12/11/10

@ Aitch B…. LOL… [...pulls up a chair and grabs a handfull of popcorn]

If only he had stated that he would do a better job on the banks because he is a Christian…

NicoleG says:

09:42am | 12/11/10

I think you’ll find that Aitch B is sitting back waiting for the rabid comments that are about to thrown at Abbott. I find it amusing at how nasty the left can be.

Aitch B says:

10:00am | 12/11/10

@Wayne

Chill out, man!

It’s Friday, not a lot happening in the office and I just LOVE reading the contributions from the more forthright supporters from both sides of the fence.

Given that Tony Abbott isn’t the most loved person on this forum there should be heaps of hoppo bumpo and ego smashing going on!

Keyboards at 20 paces, gentlemen….......

Wayne Fehlhaber says:

11:15am | 12/11/10

Aitch B :  ” Given that Tony Abbott is’nt the most loved person on this forum…. “
Yes , i’ll concede that , but you would not be implying for one minute that
Julia Gillard IS a ” most loved person on this forum ”  hmmm ?
Sure , i know now what you meant in your first post but i think it wise to consider carefully just what Tony Abbott is pointing out to readers . Enjoy your popcorn and coke Aitch B.

Nicole : yes i can see that now Nicole . Maybe he needs to consider what lies ahead for an unsuspecting electorate, though i suspect it would make him choke on his popcorn.

Akrasiel Rising :  Hmmm an appropriate pseudonym. !
As to the content of your comment : Tony probably could do a better job considering he has peace of mind with his faith.
You see A.R. , Julia’s mind is tormented in the knowledge of her belief in nothing , but that is my view , i’m sure many would disagree.

Aitch B says:

02:20pm | 12/11/10

@Wayne

“..... but you would not be implying for one minute that Julia Gillard IS a ” most loved person on this forum ”  hmmm ?”

I most certainly would not be, Wayne! She doesn’t appear to have the cojones to publish articles here (aren’t “underlings” wonderful to have around?) so we will probably never know.

Brix says:

07:44am | 12/11/10

There’s nothing they can do unless you introduce new banks into the market.

They would have to be large foreign banks to be able to compete…..and we all know bogans don’t like foreigners in this country so it would be an unpopular move.

The banks are free to set any price they want. The consumer needs to show some intelligence and find a better deal among the 100s of alternatives (different packages, building societies, credit unions etc)

Tom says:

07:25am | 12/11/10

Yeah I heard that interview on AM and wondered at the time whether that was another of Tony’s heat-of-the-moment moments.

You’ve gotta love the chutzpah of the bloke. His only major economic election policy was to raise company tax for large businesses and now he’s griping about upward pressure on taxes.

TimB says:

07:35am | 12/11/10

*snigger*

An ALP supporter dumping crap on Tony for being a weathervane. That’s funny.

Tell me what the ALP stands for again? Then can you tell the ALP too?

Because they really want to know.

BTW instead of pointing out some slight inconsitencies with Abbott’s words, could you please show us how many times the banks did raise their rates above the RBA rate and by how much. That would prove any point you may have much better.

Adam Diver says:

07:58am | 12/11/10

I will concede that the liberals are not providing a definitive position on many issues, with the slight excuse that they are in opposition, BUT take your blinkers off. You have been told repeatadly of labors lies, waste, deciet, policy changes of which I have yet to see any credible responses from the labor supporters here on the punch.

Here is an exercise in debate, Pers go write the same piece about your chosen party and be enlightened. I will get you started:

citizens assembly
no tax on carbon
grocerywatch
fuel watch
epping to parramatta
pink batts
green loans
BER (although you argue about this one)

etc etc

NicoleG says:

08:10am | 12/11/10

Ahhh, what color are your glasses today Pers? Carbon tax? BER? Timor? Home insulation? I’ve go more chance of playing full forward for the Bulldogs? And the list goes on and on. Time to move forward and wake up Pers. Labor are rapidly destroying this country. They’re completely useless.

Dash says:

08:26am | 12/11/10

Perse, people who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.

Cabon tax - big new tax on business. Superannuation guarantee increase - big new tax on business. Profits tax - big new tax on business

Lets look at the ALPs weathervane shall we:

Grocery choice - not delivered;
Fuelwatch - not delivered;
East Timor Solution - never even existed;
260 new Childcare facilities - election promise - lie;
More affordable housing - election promise not delivered;
Cheaper Better Childcare - election promise not delivered;
Cheaper books for all Australians - election promise not delivered;
I fully support PM Rudd - lie;
There will be no Carbon Tax - lie;
We’ll abolish uni union fees - lie;
Cheaper books for all Australians - election promise not delivered;
No child shall live without a laptop - now it’s one between two;
The profits tax is not negotiable - lie;
Greenloans - fiasco;
Insulation - fiasco;
School Hall ripoffs - parliamentary enquiry ALP backed builders line their pockets with taxpayers money;
Epping to Parramatta rail link - yeah right;
We’ll reduce consultancies- have spent more on consultants than any gov in our history;
I’m an economic conservative - Biggest spending gov in our history;
We wont touch the private health tax rebate - lie;
We’ll stop Japanese whaling (ha ha ha) - fail;
We’ll hold a referendum on four year terms - lie;
We’ll establish a coastguard - election promise not delivered;
We’ll turn the boats around - election promise - FAIL;
Root and branch tax reform -not delivered and new taxes introduced;
“Ministers must accept the full implications of the principle of ministerial responsibility” - Ah I give you Peter Garrett;
“We’ll reduce regulation” - introduced over 2000 new pieces, repealed just 50 - fail;
Citizens Assembly on climate change - laughable joke;
There will be no more onshore detention centres - lie;
I was only a member of the Socialist Forum in my 20s” - lie member ‘till 2002;
“We will honour every single promise made to the Australian people”  - clearly a lie;
I cannot honour our promises because of the “New Environment” - half an hour after spending $11b to bribe her way into office!

There appears to be a windstorm to the ALP weathervane Perse!

MarK says:

08:43am | 12/11/10

Ahhh I see pers.

We are taking the absolute with all statements now.

Yes Tony made an error.

Yes the banks went higher under the Libs as well. In the 12 years please oh please point out how many times. We are being factual after all.

Now also point out how much it has happened under Labor.

Be factual.

And lets have a look at the rest

“One minute you’re going to implement the Murray Darling plan sight unseen; the next there hasn’t been enough consultation and the document is seriously flawed.”

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

That was Gillard doing the promise sight unseen. Don’t lie or be disingenuous.

The Liberals started a perfectly good process. You have been on these boards arguing that the MDA was doing good. It is Labor that have stuffed the delivery….again

“One minute you’re going to pass a CPRS; the next you’ve decided that you can’t possibly do that and stab your own leader in the back rather than honour your commitment.”

Let me help with the correct version

One minute Turnbull is going to pass a CPRS against the wishes of at least half the Libs and some number of Labor members as well too scared to stand up.Next, real conviction and sanity prevails and Abbott asks for a spill and without any backroom deals, broken pledges of support given 15 minutes before or any of that crap gets ELECTED in A SECRET BALLOT to lead the Liberal party.

Juxtapose this with Gillard assuring Rudd she would give him time and reneging on that pledge within minutes.

Spin it baby spin it….BRUHAHAHAHAHA

“One minute climate change is a load of crap, the next you’re releasing a policy that sort of does something about it. If you don’t believe in it, why bother?”

Of course it is a load of crap. But we all want to reduce pollution and do our bit to make the world nicer to live in. The need to save it though is reduced to a few goose’s that believe peer review means ensuring only your view gets published.

Yeh that’s science for ya.

“One minute paid parental leave will only happen over your dead body, the next you’re introducing a Big New Tax on business to bring one in.”

Ouch. You are stealing the Liberal lines like you stole the policies in 2007.

I call shenanigans!!!

“You’re a bit of a weathervane on a whole raft of issues, aren’t you? “

/snicker /gloat

Now gather around kids and let Uncle MarK tell you all something.

What you see her is an apologist for the left.

What you are witnessing here is the shrill calls for distraction from impending disaster that is about to hit Gillard.

Gillards time is nearly up. She is down to using the Aboriginal referendum distraction to ease the ills. The good old unicorn technique is staring to fall apart though.

You see true desperation in people when they attempt to smear you with their own fallacies. It is like China, that great proponent of human rights, that gives everyone the middle finger becasue the US tortured some terrorists.

It is banal, boorish but unfortunately all they have left.

Interestingly enough this is exactly what it was like just before Rudd got knifed by Gillard. Lets review;

1. Polls are turning against Labor - tick
2. Gillards popularity on the decline - tick
3. Labor luminaries speaking out against the leader - tick
4. Press turning hostile - tick
5. Loss of policy direction - tick (a kind tick, loss of direction suggests you had one in the first place)
6. Losing the ear of the nation - tick
7. Events running out of control - big tick ( hello High Court)
8. Lack of any conviction - tick tick tick (anyone want to have another consensus committee)

So the you have it kids.

Come March NSW labor will be slaughtered.

Come March Gillard will be as well.

In the meantime the nation will bleed. Such a shame.

ZSRenn says:

08:44am | 12/11/10

I Love the Labor staffers every time Tony writes!

Keith Hammersmith says:

10:00am | 12/11/10

I just wish I could find the video of Julia in opposition barking at howard in parliment saying “every boat that get through is a FAILURE in policy”
always makes me chuckle

Jezabel says:

10:13am | 12/11/10

PERSEPHONE: How on earth can you defend Labor so vehemently?
They are a basket case & even though Gillard is titled PM, the real Prime Minister is Bob Brown. The back flips & the astronomical waste of money by Labor are a bigger joke that would honestly be funny if it wasn’t so insulting to the electorate who work their butts off to pay the taxes that are then thrown to the wind.

Ryan says:

10:25am | 12/11/10

@Jezabel: because she is a Labor pollie on here daily to spread the glorious propaganda of our illustrious comrade and leader.

Adrian says:

10:51am | 12/11/10

MarK: Normally your posts annoy me with their sarcastic, condescending dribble.
But that one was actually very good and impossible to argue with.

A little lengthy for a Friday morning but pobody’s nerfect after all.

MarK says:

10:52am | 12/11/10

@Keith

http://today.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=877129

Just imagine a lot of hands flying around the screen.

I like reading it personally…...so much fun

Sambobs says:

12:31pm | 12/11/10

We should also remind the hypocritical mad monk that it was under a Liberal govt that the “Big Four” was born when they allowed all those mergers. That’s really helped competition, hasn’t it!

TimB says:

12:55pm | 12/11/10

I’m sorry Sambobs when did Westpac and St George merge? When was Bankwest taken over by the CBA? When did ANZ buy ING Australia? When was Rams aquired by Westpac?

Open Google, research the answers, then get back to me on how wrong you are to blame .the Liberals.

Dash says:

02:08pm | 12/11/10

Sambobs, do you want to revisit that comment? The StGeorge Westpac merger was in 08 and was approved by Wayne Swan! He’s approved two of them so far.

Randal says:

02:21pm | 12/11/10

Never let the facts get in the way of your misleading statements eh Perse…  You are correct, on one single occasion in 1999 the banks did increase their rate above the RBA increase…  But what you failed to also point out is that this followed on from the year before when competition saw the banks hold their rates below the RBA increase.

Then again why should we expect the truth from a Labor staffer like yourself, goodness knows we get none from the government so it’s no surprise their employees are also full of bollocks.

Here is a tip for Swanny, the next time you have his ear… 

What Costello used to do when there was even an hint of an increase above the RBA was to call the big 4 and ask them how they felt about greater government regulation…. Amazingly the banks always thought better of it and stayed, except in only two circumstances, within the RBA movements.

See that what happens when you have a strong Treasurer and not the toothless tiger we have now… Now tell us honestly Perse is there any truth to the rumour that Swanny is now better known by his nickname the “UN”????

Randal says:

02:52pm | 12/11/10

@madsam, perhaps someone should remind you that it was during the Howard government that competition from small lenders led to the big 4 regularly reducing rates below the standard margin, providing Australian borrowers with far greater choice than they currently now have.

Sadly a situation that has deteriorated under the Rudd/Gillard government’s with the banking guarantee a death blow to many small lenders.

It is surprising to those in finance circles that such an insurance program fails to provide more influence upon the banks and that in itself suggests a lack of spine from Canberra whom seem more interested in empty rhetoric rather than reigning the banks in.

Shane says:

09:06pm | 12/11/10

Bugger the laptops for every child.  Apparently by 1990 there would be no Australian child living in povery.

Bruce says:

05:54pm | 13/11/10

TimB: I can tell you what the labor party stands for: ANYTHING THE GREENS TELL THEM.

fairsfair says:

08:51am | 12/11/10

don’t go there girlfriend

TimB says:

07:28am | 12/11/10

No Pete, what they have said was that the ALP’s policy of processing asylum seekers on Australian territory such as Christmas Island instead of somewhere else like Nauru has lead to this. Not the law itself.

If the ALP had continued with the Coalition’s proven policies, they wouldn’t be in the mess they are now. This is entirely on them.

Joan says:

07:42am | 12/11/10

You are a moron. Labor`s been in power 3 years and you still blame Howard…. your are a true Labor pathetic.  Rudd/Gillard closed Nauru and put out the welcome mat, and illegals have now arrived in thousands, and Labor don’t know to handle or deal with them. Labor has had three years to read the laws , change them if they saw fit to do so, and implement laws accordingly- all beyond Labor capability it would seem. . Labor is sitting on its hands while illegals and Greens call the shots. It`s a disgrace.

Denny Crane says:

08:00am | 12/11/10

Pete, you have no idea, the law the ALP is using re illegals who breach australian soverign waters is a disgrace.

Under the Howard they were processed in a foreign country and subject to the laws of that country, so believe your fairy tale but Labor has screwed up illegal policy so bad.

Onto the banks Tony is right Swann will say bad banks and will do nothing.

Gillard said the week before CBA rose higher then Reserve, it is not acceptable to raise rates higher then reserve, and CBA did this within a week, and why did they do it, to test Gillard to see how powerful she is, and what did Gillard do but nothing toothless tiger.

All the Labor party care about is keeping the greens and independents on side, and who does this effect yes the genral public, they will stoop to any level to remain in power, when a governments job is to make life better for AUSTRALIANS first that is why they are elected.

Steve says:

08:05am | 12/11/10

The reason they can’t do anything is because in opposition they slammed the success of Howard’s policies. i bet i know what they would like to do but you can’t slam a policy then carry on with the same one can you….
They are so busy trying to please the global community on this issue they are stuffing up our country

Lostie says:

08:18am | 12/11/10

“Labor has had three years to read the laws , change them if they saw fit to do so, and implement laws accordingly…”

So, Joan, the problem is that the ALP didn’t change the bad laws that it was left by the former Government?

I should point out that I am a swinging voter, however, I am increasingly of the opinion that it is the lying maggots that we put in the Parliament that should swing.

Perhaps if it became a criminal offence for a politician to make a claim that was:
(a) demonstrably false, or
(b) deceptive or misleading in a material particular, or
(c) unsupported by evidence (or, where such evidence exists, evidence supporting the claim is not provided for public consumption).
The penalty for such an offence should be that the person is not eligible for re-election for a period of 6 years (similar to a bankrupt director of a company, a politician who is either ethically or intellectually bankrupt should be kept from running for a seat).

I’d like to see either of our current political parties survive that type of scrutiny.

MarK says:

09:06am | 12/11/10

Pete if you don’t understand something best to keep quiet mate.

Just a tip for the future.

Steely Dan says:

09:32am | 12/11/10

@ Joan

“Labor`s been in power 3 years and you still blame Howard”
For the thing’s Howard did?  Of course.  Did Gillard inherit the mistakes John Howard made when she took office?

Joan says:

10:59am | 12/11/10

Gillard has had three years to change laws that suited Howard policies to suit Labor policies. She didn’t. They closed Nauru and didn’t fine tune or understand how laws would apply to Labor policy. That is dumb. Gillard just in 3 months as PM has saddled Australia with more problems than Howard did in 11 years

Dash says:

08:52am | 12/11/10

What’s would that be Shane,
Eliminate $96billion of debt?
Bring down consistent budget surpluses (that would be something new for the ALP)?
Build up over $20billion in government savings?
Reduce the unemployment rate to full employment levels?
Low interest rates?
Low inflation?
Introduce legislation remotely as effective as the Financial Services reform Act?
Provide income Tax relief for 5 consecutive years?
Introduce real tax reform?
Increase foreign investment?
Maintain consistent GDP growth ahead of the rest of the Western world?
That all sounds great for starters Shane.

Joan says:

07:56am | 12/11/10

Every day Labor and Gillard demonstrate their incompetance.  Joe Hockey`s Nine point plan makes more sense than Gillard trashing Australian banks at G20….saying they ripped off clients - you call that doing the job?  As for stopping the boats, we now find Gillard solution will cost tax payer multimillion dollars.  Gillard said Labor had lost its way…. daily she and Labor show that they are now completely of the track beating around the bush. Liberals would never got off the track in the first place.

iansand says:

08:51am | 12/11/10

Joan - So you don’t know what the Liberals would do either?

Dash says:

09:02am | 12/11/10

iansand, time for you and your ALP mates to start taking responsibility for the failings of this government. They have been in for three years now and have a record of non-delivery, pathetic mess, waste and rorts. It’s not good enough to just sit back and say, “oh yeah we stuffed up, but what would you do”. There is a common thread of excuses coming from the ALP these days. It’s the previous governments fault. Or it was all Rudd’s fault. Or it’s the “new environment” that means we cant deliver what we promised. Or its the GFC. There are even ALP people denying there is anything wrong with the way NSW has been run by Labor. And Federally we’re heading the same way. Enough is enough! Stop the excuses!

iansand says:

10:47am | 12/11/10

Dash doesn’t know either.  Surely someone out there has a clue?

MarK says:

12:18pm | 12/11/10

“But what would the Liberals do?  Apart from sending Joe Hockey out to do his Nine Point Investigation and pull a couple of levers. “

Aside from the levers are you saying this will not work?

You have direct evidence that being stricter on the banks will not work?

You have run models that show this will definitively NOT change the banks behaviour?

You can’t ask a question deny the response that is out there and say what else. You have just admitted they are doing something.

If you don’t think it will work come to the table with your evidence to the contrary. It will be hard to prove until they are implemented though.

I have a sneaking suspicion you have no evidence and are trying this on. Great if you can get away with it.

Let me play to. What policy does Labor have vis education? Other than the policy I can probably find on their website that they will trot Garrett and the other 2,864 education ministers they announced to attempt to enact?

What’s that? They have no other hitherto non disclosed policy. Frauds - they are naked. The emperor has no clothes.

ucwatidadthar?

Dash says:

02:19pm | 12/11/10

iansand, ever heard of monetary policy or fiscal policy? Are they not in the ALP economic handbook?

How’s this for starters:
Reduce the expansionary fiscal spend-a-thon
Stop pursuing inflationary policies (e.g. a carbon tax and water restrictions)
Wayne Swan should not approve any more Bank mergers (e.g. StGeorge Westpac in Dec ‘08)
And perhaps look at licensing and APRA regulations as well.

That wouldn’t be a bad start.

Randal says:

03:03pm | 12/11/10

What the Liberals did do during 11 years of solid fiscal management was keep the Banks on a very tight leash @iansand and for the most part (with the exception of the late 90’s when competition saw the banks hold below the Reserve increases and increase above - only once) was use the threat of regulation to keep the banks in check.

The problem now is that they sensed weakness in Swan and have taken advantage, and now the banking Jeanie is out of the bottle and the ALP have no way of putting it back in.

Their solution of legislating against exit fees will do very little due to a lack of competition in the sector and the bank guarantee prevents others from entering the market as obtaining funding from overseas borrowers against a guaranteed bloc has become extremely difficult.

Amazingly Swan has the Ace up his sleeve to control the banks, and that is to tell them to get back in line with the RBA or lose the guarantee, and the banks would have hopped immediately.

Takes political courage though to take on a sector and it is obvious from this governments history that political courage is something that is sadly lacking.

Steve Putnam says:

02:50pm | 13/11/10

Abbott should consult Joe the socialist about these levers of his. @MarK below… could you please articulate just what these levers are and how they work instead of waffling on (as you do).
Am I entitled to a prize for using the words ‘MarK’ and ‘articulate’ in one sentence?

Fred says:

08:59am | 12/11/10

But Seano, you are dealing with a different situation where Labor has given the final node to reduced competition and as a consequence the banks are automatically going above the RBA rate rise. It’s known as cause (stupid decisions) and effect (public get screwed). Think of the BER, insulation, etc, and the repeating pattern is obvious. Thus you comment is irrelevant given the “cause” (ALP) that lead to it..

MarK says:

09:09am | 12/11/10

You must have missed the excellent 9 point plan.

You know action and thought - since chucking a Hans Blix doesn’t seem to help.

So lets not need to pretend anything.

Thanks for your time

Keith Hammersmith says:

09:40am | 12/11/10

be careful Seano, dont let facts get in the way of your rant…

Seano says:

10:58am | 12/11/10

@Keith - Got anything other than lame insults champ?

@MarK - you must have missed the 11 years he was a senior minister in the Howard government that did nothing.

@Fred - yeah sure under the Libs the banks were not screwing customers and staff whilst posting mega profits, keep dreaming.

TimB says:

12:51pm | 12/11/10

@ Seano:

Keith didn’t insult you. He said you didn’t acknowledge the facts. And he’s right.

MarK has nailed you on your contention about what the Libs would do if they were in power. We’re talking about in power now, not their last term. Being disingenious will get you nowhere.

Finally, Frank rightly points out that the situation when the Libs were in power is very different to what we have now. There’s less competotion as a direct result of Labor’s actions.  As Keith says, please acknowledge the facts instead of waving them off with generalisations.

Fred says:

12:59pm | 12/11/10

Wake up Seano. I never said they went screwing us then.  The problem is under labor they no longer need to use lub and Dillard and Swanny give use the act to hid their stupidity.

MarK says:

01:20pm | 12/11/10

Excellent Seano.

From your reply I can see your position is this.

“I reckon it wasn’t perfect under Howard and Abbott was a minister then so shut up of you guys dissing Julia.”

It is sort of like China’s argument on human rights. So what if they detain, murder, censor and repress. The US tortured a terrorist once don’t ya know.

Makes it all better.

Oh and a bone to pick with you. You do this far too much.

Keith did not insult you. Son you got to realise this is the internetz. He is actually asking for some facts from you. Don’t be so thin skinned and quick to toss out that everyone that doesn’t automatically believe your ...... errrrrr, trying to be politic here, thoughts? is insulting you.

Plenty of people disagree with me but never insult me. Hell they call me names that I guess they think are insulting but I kind of like.

Just accusing someone of insulting you that has not because you have no facts or an argument just points out your lack of credibility more.

Just a tip. Try it. Getting some facts and an idea other than Abbott is bad. It is will help you overall in a debate.

Just think how boring it would be if the usual suspects all agreed with you. See what would happen.

It would go like this

Seano: Abbot stinks, is bad and kicks kittens.

nosthow: yeh and it was Howards fault for that.

acotrel: damn straight. It is Howards fault that Abbott is bad

Seano: real bad hahaha

nosthow: word brother

acotrel: yes but Howard was really bad too. for 12 years he was bad

Pers: I believe it is true that Howard was bad and Abbott is bad too. Look at the East Timor solution. If Abbott and Howard didn’t have a solution Gillard wouldn’t need one. Because the Libs had a solution Gillard looks bad but good because Abbott and Howard were bad.

nosthgow/acotrel/seano: (in unison) sing it sister

Tors: Sorry to mod this thread guys but we were talking about how Australia lost the first test in Brisbane? Got anything to say on topic. You know about the cricket

nosthow: it was abbotts fault

See seano. Life would be dull

James says:

01:49pm | 12/11/10

Seano, still about as bright as a canine’s excrement! APRA mate, you know, that thing that saved us from the GFC?

Macka says:

02:59pm | 12/11/10

It appears that noone here really understands why the banks are increasing interest rates beyond the RBA. I am a Liberal voter through and through, but I can guarantee you the bank’s are not increasing rates over and above because of this Labor government, as incompetent and useless as they are.

It’s all about funding costs and bottom line return on capital investment. There used to be a whole lot of liquidity floating around, then this little thing called the GFC sucked it up. Banks now pay significant ‘overs’ to fund their balance sheet. This means they have to make it up somewhere else, and with margins across the rest of their business shrinking, interest rate hikes above the cash rate is the only way. For those uneducated people out there, bank’s only return approx 1% on their capital investment. Most businesses would be bankrupt if this was the normal return on capital investment. Bank CEO’s have more power than govt and always will. Accept it, get over it and move on.

I would reiterate a good point already made, that if you don’t understand it, don’t comment on it.

TimB says:

03:01pm | 12/11/10

Oops. I appear to have called Fred “Frank” .

How embarrasment.

Sorry Fred!

Randal says:

03:59pm | 12/11/10

I am afraid @Macka you should probably follow your own advise, to claim funding costs have increased is an absolute furphy told by the banks in order to gouge Australian’s.

For evidence of this we just need to look at the recent escalating profits that the banks announced, further the big banks are also being supported by regulation in a guarantee against deposits by the Federal government, hardly free market politics there and as such owe a debt back to the Australian people by not gouging them.

The Reserve Banks recently also addressed these “funding cost” claims so if you don’t believe me try them:

“...spreads on deposit and short-term wholesale funding around current levels, this would imply a rise in banks’ overall funding costs of around 5 basis points over the next 18 months….”

They also point out that the Banks have increased their NIM (margin on loans) by over 25 basis points since the GFC, and this was before the decision of the Commonwealth and ANZ to increase again above the RBA cash rate increase.

So what we have now is a situation where the banks are making greater margin on loans and still now seeking to gouge further when the outlook is for little or no pressure on funding costs at a time when they are posting record profits.

Now @Macka you may well be an apologist for the banks and being paid to promote your propaganda, and if so good luck to you, but if you are not then I suggest that you follow your own advice and if you “don’t understand it don’t comment on it”.

Seano says:

10:27am | 13/11/10

@Tim - of course you would back up another right wing fan boy, irrelevant.

The point remains that Abbott’s carping is as always meaningless, the banks haven’t suddenly become bastards, they’ve always been bastards. Abbott was a part of a long term government that did nothing about the issue and he’s admitted he’ll say what he has to to win the argument, therefore he has no credibility of this issue. Keep dreaming though.

@MarK - right up to your usual standard of pointless gibberish.

@Macka - You’re telling me the banks could not swallow some costs when they’ve posted an unbroken string of billion dollar profits? Give me a break. Either way neither party has the political will to do anything about the issue, I just thing Abbott’s pretence that he will is laugh out loud funny, as are most of his promises.

Macka says:

11:01am | 13/11/10

@Randal, before you call something propaganda, you should have some facts to back it up, not misinterpreted statements from the RBA.

You referred to the following statement from the RBA, “...spreads on deposit and short-term wholesale funding around current levels, this would imply a rise in banks’ overall funding costs of around 5 basis points over the next 18 months….”

I think you have misinterpreted this statement and this shows me that you don’t understand the funding requirements of financial institutions. You are referring to short-term funding requirements, which is not the reason for the banks hiking above the cash rate. A bank funding book is much more dependent on “long term” matching, and I think you’ll find (and this is FACT), that long term funding spreads have blown out significantly. That is, it is now more difficult for financial institutions to attract long term liquidity on their funding book, because it is extremely scarce. And you may not be aware that 40-50% of a bank’s funding is done offshore, where as you might be aware, we are still experiencing the effects of the GFC and low levels of liquidity.

In regard to margins increasing on the loan book, I would simply just point you towards the financial results available publicly. Come back to me when you’ve read through it.

So Randal, what it comes down to is your lack of understanding around funding requirements of financial institutions and misinterpretation of information presented by the Reserve Bank.

I don’t agree with, or like that our mortgage costs are increasing above the official cash rate, but I’m not irrational about it, because I understand the reasons. The banks will always do what is right for their shareholders, and as a shareholder in all four major banks, and a business owner I can appreciate the reasons for this.

Next time, try and do research outside of News.com before trying to justify an argument to someone who clearly knows a lot more about the issue than you do.

TimB says:

10:36am | 14/11/10

Seano, I back them up when they’re right. Prove them wrong, or shut up.

Honestly. “He’s right wing, and you’re right wing so I dont have to listen to you, nyah nyah nyah”. What a pathetic “argument”.

This is a different level of bastardry, encouraged by the actions of the Labor government and you know it. Pretending it’s just business as usual for the banks is a lie.

Seano says:

02:04pm | 14/11/10

@Timmy - lol As Keith said nothing you backing him up showed just what you’re about.

The banks haven’t just gone rogue they’ve been gouging customers for years. Neither side has the guts to do anything about but Abbott and his right wing cheer squad pretending otherwise is at least amusing.

TimB says:

03:27pm | 14/11/10

LOL If Keith said nothing than how could I possibly be backing him up? What am I backing up? Seriously. Ignoring valid arguments just because the person making them is “right-wing” just shows what you’re about.

Seeing as you seem to think Keith said nothing I’ll refresh your memory. Keith said you’re ignoring facts, and you are. Until you disprove them, your “arguments” mean nothing.

I’m sick of repeating myself, but one last time. Maybe you’ll listen.

Banks under Labor- Limited competition cause by merger/takeover approvals, unneccesary deposit guarantee giving them an unfair advantage, the financially incompetent Wayne Swan

Contrast:

Banks under the Liberals-More competition, no deposit guarantee driving customers to the big four, a Treasurer who was far more effective than Swan could hope to be.

I’m sure you’ll dispute the comparison between the Treasurer’s, but I challenge you to do the same as Persephone:

Show how much the banks raised their rates above the RBA’s rate for both the Gillard-Rudd government and the Howard government. I want the amount of times they did it and what the increase was. Compare the figures and then come back to me. Maybe then we’ll see who was more effective as Treasurer when it comes to keeping the banks in line.

Your argument is based on a false generalisation. “Banks are bastards before and are bastards now, therefore everything is the same”. This argument is weak. It is poor. It has no support. It is the equivalent of comparing a cop who shoots an armed robber to Ivan Malat and saying “Oh they’re both murderers and should be treated the same”.

This entire situation is of Labor’s own making, and sitting there saying that the same thing would happen under the Liberals (something you couldn’t possibly know) won’t change that fact.

MarK says:

05:05pm | 14/11/10

Sigh Seano - the facts just don’t back you up son.

Really you need to learn to internet argue. Calling everyone else pointless without having a point yourself just makes you look foolish.

Hell pers and nosthow come on here and tell porky pies at least sort of based around some twisted sense of reality. Acotrel makes stuff up but doesn’t pretend to otherwise.

You on the other hand are just wrong 99% of the time. The remaining 1% is like the infinite amount of monkeys at typewriter thing. You accidentally get something correct every so often

Seano says:

11:56am | 15/11/10

@MarK - “Really you need to learn to internet argue.” if by that you mean make stuff up and then respond to it I think you’ve got the market cornered.

@Timmy - You keep pretending that Keith said anything worthwhile if that floats your boat.

These are the facts.

1. Banks under Liberals gouged customers and posted record profits.
2. Banks under Labor gouge customers and post record profits.
3. Both leaders paying lip service to the issue in the hope of gaining an advantage over the other but neither with the actual political will to do anything to promote competition, fairness and community mindedness amongst the banks.
4. Only one of us is gullible enough to believe the rhetoric.

TimB says:

02:29pm | 15/11/10

@Seano

Only one of us too stupid to see the diferrence between the two situations.

Seano says:

03:54pm | 15/11/10

@Timmy - Pretend all you like, people know the banks were bastards before when Abbott was a part of government, they know banks are bastards now when he is not and they know by Abbott’s own admission that his word is worthless.

But please do keep pointlessly cheering for 2nd place Tony if it makes you feel better.

Tom says:

09:15am | 17/11/10

@ seano, you remind me of the Black Knight in Monty Python’s Holy Grail. “‘Tis but a scratch”.
Son, they are flogging you. You are the only one that cannot see it.

Unchain me says:

07:58am | 12/11/10

Jane, given the huge, huge, huge amounts of profits banks make I’ll bet my last dollar the Banks employ PR people to haunt sites like this and make comments to sway public opinion. There are companies around that for a fee of $10,000 will participate in forums all over the place spruiking a positive spin for those they represent. You honestly believe that doesn’t happen.  They act like previous customers or just bloggers. And tell us this Jane, how did the banks get to be the most profitable in the World? I’ll give you a hint, jack up the price of houses 15 fold by creating a credit market conducive to increase property values , get both parents to work to pay for it, increase fees, and charges. And lobby the Government to always get the best deal from the Australian people.
Who pushed the idea for both parents to work? Who pushes the own a home dream? The bank has been lobbying the government on these issues for the last 30 years. The trade off was control of the people with the RBA. Control the people by constricting their lifestyle by making them financial slaves. But now the RBA is losing control of the banks. Don’t you remember the bank marketing and TV ads of the 80’s.

Jane says:

08:42am | 12/11/10

Unchain me, I appreciate your comments and respect what you are saying. I am curious about the $10,000 fee for people to reflect vested interest views on blogs and things, and would like you to name one so we can all expose them. You must know of such deals or you wouldn’t make that comment in relation to this bank discussion.  If they were exposed for doing that, you would do us all a service.
The idea that women work outside the home was pushed by themselves as an expression of equal rights.  Everywhere I worked, women without exception expressed a longing to be at home with their kids instead of dumping them with strangers.  They wanted to be less hurried home-makers enjoying their children’s early years, but were unwilling to live in start-up homes. They mostly had big mortgages on houses that you wouldn’t expect affordable for young couples.  It was women who believed and followed the Germaine Greer rubbish “we can do anything”.  We can’t and we never will. We are biologically different on almost every level.  Even GilLiard admited she couldn’t “do” politics if she had taken on motherhood. I don’t think banks jacked up house prices or encouraged women to work. Women painted themselves into a corner from which they now wish they could extricate themselves, e.g. men who climb ladders, fix the car, do the heavy lifting are then required to come inside and iron their shirts.
I remember suggesting to our son that he try to buy a home soon after the first $7,000 first home assistance grant was announced about 7 years ago. Not to get the money, but anticipating the grant would cause a rush on housing demand and concomitant disproportionate price rises. And I wasn’t far wrong. That was the beginning of what we see today.  I’m not interested in swaying anyone’s opinion.  I felt that the people who use a forum to express a view are simply exercising a privilege and should not be driven away by those who don’t agree or are wrongly suspicious of their motives.  Sometimes there are snide remarks in reaction to an honest point of view which is not helpful to any debate.  Just because I don’t hate banks, see things less vehemently and merely contribute to the discussion, does not mean I am right or wrong.

Objective aspirations says:

11:10am | 12/11/10

Jane, at last a voice of objectivity, and appreciative of the privelege of objective freedom of speech. All of us are merely providing opinions that permit some form of catharrsis. However, we are also voters, who will hopefully also consider, once again with objectivity, for whom we shall cast our vote at the next election. The descent to mudslinging is hardly likely to sway the votes either way. Performance is what counts. The parameters we use to gauge performance will vary per individual voter. Perhaps our pollies would be wise to adhere as closely to the truth as they can. Integrity may return to politics, and we can all continue to dream on.

Brian says:

11:15am | 12/11/10

Jane, these companies operate out of places like India, and China. They are also used to increase traffic to websites, alter public opinion and even viral marketing. If I had a website that sells games, I just contract these people to write comments everywhere that the games are great and cheap and they are the best company in the World. PR companies are not going to expose their sources. It happens believe me I have had it offered to me at least 4 times in the last year. But understand Banks and Government don’t use these companies directly, they employ PR companies to do it, and then say “we know nothing about what they do, we just employ them to promote our business”.
As for women working, 20 years ago the second partners wage would only be allowed to count as 20% towards the loan. As soon as they made that 100% house price went up. My son also brought a home with the $21,000 grant, he was forced a credit on him too. Out of desperation because he lost his job he had to sell early, the bank ripped $18,000 from him for early sell. Added to that he got $25,000 less than he paid, and is now stuck with a $6,000 credit card.

Christian Real says:

05:13am | 17/11/10

Jane, then obviously you wasn’t born when John Howard was Treasurer in Malcolm Fraser’s Liberal Government when interest rates shot to a whooping 21%

Tombowler says:

09:57am | 12/11/10

Yeah true that Badger.

Your undergraduate, rather vacuous “arguments” are demonstrably lacking in substance on a consistent basis. The suggestion would be that you are seriously out of your depth intellectually and maybe better off posting on some sort of Labor facebook fan page? Or a similar circle-jerk where you can all occupy yourselves appropriately as Rome burns..

Andrew says:

07:46am | 12/11/10

“three work slogans”......been watching the performing seal Gillard in QT I see, and in the same breath she goes on to say, “Wrecker” “Economic Hansonism” “Tony the destroyer” “Moving Forward” and her parrotts screach her slogans day in day out. I think she is queen of the slogans.

Adam Diver says:

08:13am | 12/11/10

Can you stop posting. Seriously you provide no value to the blog. I have personally addressed the no policy issue several tmes to you with no rebuttal. Many others have directly proven to you that labor are as bad or worse when it comes to slogans.

Cut and pasting on every politically inspired article just brings down the quality of the punch, waste bandwidth and more importantly waste everyones time.

So if you choose to post please provide proof, logic, reasoning, anything that gives others an idea how you come to the conclusion. Its not that I dont like the left, I appreciate and enjoy debating with persephone most of the time, she at least provides examples and evidence of her positions.

“Never argue with a fool, they will lower you to their level and then beat you with experience.”

The Badger says:

09:46am | 12/11/10

I’m sure I’ve told you this before adam
I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it.
George Bernard Shaw

Keith Hammersmith says:

09:57am | 12/11/10

What a well conceived response badger…...  got nothing again i see,  I can’t believe you havnt mentioned about Tony wearing budgy smugglers yet ....

Hammerhead Sharky says:

10:47am | 12/11/10

You leave Badger alone, he has feelings too.

PS I saw Abbott in his budgie smugglers once.

Ben81 says:

12:49pm | 12/11/10

+1 Adam Diver.  Wait has he said “boat phone” yet?  I’m sure it’s here somewhere.  Surely even those firmly on the Labor of the fence are fed up and embarrassed by the constant puerile and irrelevant interjections by now.

Christian Real says:

08:41am | 16/11/10

The Badger
Joe Hockey could not even find that there was an $11 billion black hole in the Coalition’s policy costings during the Federal election,so how the hell is he going to find any levers?
Even if Costtello told Hockey where he hid the levers, bumbling Joe still wouldn’t be able to find them.
And Mr Abbott, you did say:, “Don’t be everything I say”, so I won’t, this blog is as phoney as you.

The Badger says:

08:48am | 12/11/10

And Abbott’s action plan is?
I mean other than wearing his underpants on the outside.

NicoleG says:

10:23am | 12/11/10

You’re obsessed with Abbott’s underpants. That worries me Badger !

The Badger says:

10:49am | 12/11/10

Dear Nicole

Thank you for your concern.

Best Wishes
The Badger

PS - They tell me I can leave the clinic this weekend.

TimB says:

12:58pm | 12/11/10

Badger I suggest asking them for a second opinion.

jf says:

01:06pm | 14/11/10

The Badger says:

I don’t get it. Other than to conclude that you are talking about his speedos. And if so, you must be doing so in flattering terms given that he wears his speedos when giving up his very limited free time to work for a highly regarded, important volunteer organisation.

Coming from a party that claims to be representative of the working class and egalitarian surely you wouldn’t be referring to his clothing in pejorative terms. Particularly when that item of clothing is the uniform of perhaps the most egalitarian and working class volunteer organisation in Australia.

Christian Real says:

08:31am | 17/11/10

Badger,
Do you mean the budgie smugglers that the want a be Prime Minister wears.
Up.up and away,is it a bird,is it a plane, is it superman!, no it’s phoney Tony,the man who said: “Don’t believe everything I say”,  and he also said on the 7.30 report that: “I know politician are going to be judged on everything they say,but sometimes in the heat of discussion you go a little bit further than you would if it was an absolutely calm, considered,prepared,scripted remark.”
“Which is one of the reasons why statements that need to be taken as gospel truth are those carefully,prepared scripted remarks..”
So Mr Abbott, can the Australian people and voters really believe anything that you have to say?, and how can people actually recognise when you are telling the ‘gospel truth’, or just speaking from another one of your unscripted statements ?

MarK says:

08:46am | 12/11/10

Awesome!!!!

We will get Roger from the pub on the job at 50k

That will fix it.

Actually in hindsight no. Lets not.

Peter says:

09:52am | 12/11/10

Actually, i should apologies Mr Abbott. You did stop this global governance on our energy, so I should be thankful for that.

tommy says:

09:53am | 12/11/10

dear adam,you say you are a liberal supporter one of the born to rule type.  thats why when reading your comments you cant be taken seriously.when the brains trust tony,joe and andrew come up with a solution hopefully that will ease your concerns. dont hold your breath.

Elaine says:

10:32am | 12/11/10

Agree with you Adam. I am a swinging voter but tend to vote Liberal more often than Labor & am quite happy to admit to this. I also try to become informed of the policies of all parties before I make my vote, & vote for what I believe is best for the country & not just myself. At present I think that there’s is not ONE plotical Party in Australia either fit or ready to be in power.  My biggest fear is that with the greens having so much power now that our country will be dragged back into the dark ages. Yes, I think we should clean up our act as far as the enviroment is concerned,  but after reading the Greens manifesto I am horrified that our young people are being hoodwinked by this mob.  Gillard is only the PM in name, Bob Brown is the real PM!

Richard says:

11:25am | 12/11/10

Liberals: born to rule
Labor: born to bungle

Adam Diver says:

11:36am | 12/11/10

@ tommy you merely illustrate my point. Well done to you sir - own goal!

Aaron says:

12:45pm | 12/11/10

@Elaine I find it interesting that people are always attacking the Greens saying it will take us back into the Dark Ages. This implies that the electing of a Green government (who are very anti-discrimination) will take us back to a time when there was persecution and segregation.

I’m no Economist so I can’t say whether the Liberal’s 12 years was riding on the reform brought about by Labor. All I can use is how those 12 years affected myself and my family, and I’m not that happy with those 12 years.

Labor has definitely made some bungles with their BER and insulation schemes, but who can honestly say that the schemes were the problem rather than the implementation.

Oh and something I thought about and figured may actually play a role in the banks increasing rates outside of the RBA, the Aussie has been getting higher, which means when the banks borrow money they may be borrowing in USD, HKD GBP but they need the amounts they get in AUD. Just a thought.

TimB says:

10:22am | 12/11/10

This has to be Badger. Has to be.

The Badger says:

10:53am | 12/11/10

No, It’s not The Badger.

But I wish I had thought of the bank-phone, it’s a classic.
Mattb - do you mind if I use it, it goes well with Tony’s other phone the buh buh buh buh boat-phone.

Mattb says:

01:29pm | 12/11/10

Sorry TimB, im definately not The Badger. Im just an lowly earth artist (landscaper) with a day off work and enough time to sit down and enjoy the rubbish that flows from the mouths of these liberal voters and their favourite party leader. Its so sweet that labor was returned to office, its obviously still annoying the ‘born to rule’ moron brigade, makes me smile everytime i read one of their ‘the labor parties distroying us, were all doomed’ posts!.

Go for your life Badger, use the ‘bank phone’ as much as you like,
RING RING!!!

MarK says:

01:54pm | 12/11/10

Hell I will use it.

The basis for its fact in reality is as solid as the b b b b b b b boat phone.

I still like the East Timor phone and the crossed line.

TimB says:

10:27am | 12/11/10

To be fair, the National IQ test is a crock’o'shit.

I’ve had my IQ professionally tested, & did a few of the proper tests as an excersise back in my Year 11 psychology class. The results all lined up to within 2 points of each other.

Both times I’ve done Ch9’s IQ farce though, its told me my IQ is 20-25 points below the more reliable tests I’ve done.  The format they use might make for good TV, but it’s terrible at generating a proper result.

Hamish says:

10:20am | 12/11/10

Holly, nothing you have said has any relevance at all. Abbott’s article is about the problems associated with a government undertaking an expansionary fiscal policy at a time when they should be contracting their fiscal committments. Basically, if you have an expanding economy and at the same time the government is increasing spending, you get significant inflation, especially when your dollar is so high because of demand for our raw materials. This is actually obvious even to someone who only studied first year economics. The fact it’s clearly not obvious to Swan, Gillard et al is disturbing but not surprising, after all, it’s an open secret Wayne Swan has no idea about economics. Nothing you have written responds to that at all.

But just a few notes on what you’ve said.

Iraq war - Labor has continued our committment as they have with Afghanistan.

Nauru - well we’ve already had a fight at Christmas Island which caused injuries to residents and forced the removal and/or segregation of inhabitants. I’m sure we won’t get any problems with self-harm, etc, in East Timor, because we’ll never have any asylum seekers there anyway.

Water and utilities - the increase in the cost of these is due largely to a combination of the inflationary pressures above, exacerbated by the costs associated with state-based Labor governments’ environmental policies (i.e. in Vic our water prices have gone up because we built desal instead of a dam due to the strength of the environmental lobby).

Also, under the coalition banks did raise rates over and above the RBA, but under Labor it’s happening every rate rise. To be fair though, it’s only partly the ALP’s fault.

Liam says:

10:39am | 12/11/10

Great post Holly, although I don’t really know why you bothered.
The only comments you’ll get will be from the Liberal stooges that overrun this site, screaming BER and Pink Batts.

Trent says:

11:51am | 12/11/10

Tony abbott is a liar. Its funny to see liberal supporters sucking up and gagging on abbotts dribble. Eleven billion dollar black hole from the wreckers should be enough for anyone with a half a brain to workout this fool would trade his soul for the top job…and our tax dollars. Maybe something to do with paying off a $700000 mortgage and lets not forget he wants to give every stay at home mum 10 grand… and $150K per annun pro rata for maternity leave…how old are your daughters tony?  The liberals need someone that actually shows signs of having an IQ above 10, this is not evident at the moment. The liberals constant lies show they are not even close to being electable. Get rid of abbot, the mincing poodle and hockey and they might have half a chance at the next election. But then again, by the next election our budget will back in surplus and i hope they replay the declarations of abbott and hockey saying “labor will never deliver a surplus” lol fools.

AdamC says:

12:02pm | 12/11/10

Liam, I note the Liberal stooge above (Hamish) didn’t resort to pink batts or BER rip-offs in trashing Holly’s silly list of distractions. But, hey, any opportunity for you to come out from under your bridge must be a relief to passing travellers.

Hamish, what I love about ALPites is how on the one hand they are almost religious in their Keynesianism, but o the other actually never bothe to get the basics of it. Being Keynesian means, as well as hiking up spending when times are bad (as Gillrudd so enthusiastically did) you actually have to cut spending when the cycle shifts and times are good. That’s the hard part. And something Jools and her pathetic treasurer don’t have the stomach for.

For almost three decades good governments from both sides kept Australia’s economic miracle on the boil. Is someone taking any bets on the next three years?

(But, of course, there’s no point making comments because ALP stooges like Liam and Holly wil just overrun ...)

Hamish says:

12:17pm | 12/11/10

You’ll be thankful then Liam that I didn’t mention either of those things…although the inflationary pressures associated with both those programs is contributing to the upward pressure on interest rates.

Ryan says:

10:26am | 12/11/10

@VJE: clearly the track record speaks for itself, I am still waiting with baited breath to see a Labor government actually pay off its own debt let alone the previous parties.

Ironside says:

10:47am | 12/11/10

Yes and there were also 14 decreases over that time additionally Howard took over when interest rates were 10.5% and left with them at 7.8% with interest rates during his term staying below 8% more than 90% of the time during the same time he paid off government debt and returned the budget to surplus. Since the end of the GFC rates have risen from 5.55 to now 7.75 more than 2% in less than a year.

figures sourced from loansense.com.au/historical-rates.html

You may be a liberal hater but please don’t ignore the gross financial mismanagement of your own side when trying to make a point.

MarK says:

12:11pm | 12/11/10

The best part about all of this is we “might” see a surplus in 2013 from Labor.

This is the claim they are staking the economic credibility on.

A surplus WAYYYYYYYY out in the future. They are yet to deliver one.

It is so funny as to be ridiculous. Standing on a record that relies on Treasury forecasts. Of course now Treasury didn’t forecast the rise in the dollar and they stuffed up the mining tax things are looking shaky but that’s ok. Treasury is allowed to be wrong….except when using forecasts to forecast the cost of Liberal policies based on different assumptions than the Libs….............LOL

Then they are rolled gold solid baby.

Ryan says:

11:10am | 12/11/10

@Andy W: “LOL - John Howard and Peter Costello were almost never not taken seriously by the banks. ” aside from being a completely unsubstantiated comment, how awfully strange that they didn’t raise rates outside of the RBA until Labor got in.. Just lucky I guess!

Andy W says:

01:08pm | 12/11/10

But they did!

Abbott has changed his rhetoric from ‘never happened’ to ‘almost never happened’.

It doesn’t pack the same punch, does it.

Dash says:

10:27am | 12/11/10

Steely Dan, Peter Costello and JH used fiscal and monetary policy to manage interest rates.  Expansionary fiscal policy (ie government spending) will help to drive rates up. Any policy which is inflationary (e.g. a carbon tax) will also help to drive rates up. The fact that ALP people seem to think nothing can be done, demonstrates a sad lack of understanding of ecomonics and fiscal management.

What the ALP should do is reduce fiscal spending and stop following policies that drive up inflation. They should also think twice before reducing competition in the sector as Swan did by approving two bank mergers during his time as treasurer.

monkeytypist says:

11:12am | 12/11/10

Dash the contention by you or anyone in the Liberal Party that the Howard government was a low-spending government is patently absurd.  Howard was profligate in areas of national defence, regional boondoggles, middle-class welfare, and anything that he generally considered necessary to secure his own election.  Reckless levels of government spending, as well as the attitude that it was generally OK for young people and renters to be priced out of the housing market so long as the value of their parents’ homes kept appreciating, contributed to many interest rate rises.  If Peter Costello was such a brilliant Treasurer, he wouldn’t have been so regularly steamrollered in cabinet when it came to sustainable levels of government spending.

Dash says:

11:44am | 12/11/10

monkeytypist, Still managed to pay off $96billion worth of ALP debt though didn’t they! Still managed consistent surplus budgets! Still managed to leave over $20billion for the ALP to splash about.

When the ALP manages to balance a budget let alone deliver a surplus, look me up monkey.

Btw, you miss my point. It’s wrong for people to say that the gov can’t do anything. Fiscal and monetary policy are significant levers at their disposal. And to follow inflationary policies is just plain stupid!

Steely Dan says:

12:21pm | 12/11/10

@ Dash

Monkeytypist is right, govt spending has been on the same upwards trajectory for decades.  The Howard era didn’t buck the trend at all.

And I should have been more specific in my wording before - how did JH and PC keep the banks from lifting interest rates above the increases by the Reserve (‘most of the time’)?

Richard says:

01:33pm | 12/11/10

Steely Dan, $8 billion in spending cuts were made in Howard and Costello’s first two budgets. What were you talking about again? Any chance to discard the facts to make a point hey…

StefanR says:

02:47pm | 12/11/10

We’re told the coalition lowered the level of taxation and we know they increased government spending. How did they pay down the debt again?

MarK says:

09:36am | 13/11/10

StefanR.

Dear oh dear.

You see what you can do is lower tax rates and also put policies in place that expand the economy. Little things like opening up the ports to real productivity growth that sort of thing.

Since you have a mathematical deficiency along with a less than competent grasp of economics let me show you using little numbers.

Lets assume our economy earns $100 per annum in year 1. Lets also assume out tax rate is 30%.

So we tax our economy $100 x 30% = $30. We have $30 to do stuff with. You know evil right wing stuff like extend some family payments or pay off debt. Stuff like that. Ok so lets say government budget was $25.

You see we spent our budget, had $5 to repaty debt and ...hell….we decided to keep $1 for later. In savings. You know not run a deficit.

Have I gone too fast? No?

Now that was year 1. Also during year 1 the League Of Evil Right Wing Dictators that was in power did some nasty stuff and broke up a perfectly harmless cartel on the wharves that was really a front for the girl scouts (the girl scouts were suppressed this time - little bastards).

They also increased employment and encouraged more business investment.

So we get to year 2. During the year just for popularity reasons they reduced the tax rate to 25%. Not because they wanted to encourage growth but because of Evil Right Wing Intentions.

What else happened? Well the economy grew. The economy now made $200. Wow who would thought the taxable income base would grow with good policy?

So now we have $200 x 25% = $50 collected.

OMFG - we reduced the tax rate and collected more tax to do Evil Right Wing Stuff with like pay off debt.

Now lets see. Last year our government budget was $25 - this year lets increase it to $35. Now lets pay off some debt say $10 and save $5

Lets check
35+10+5=50 WOW!!! We increased government spending, reduced tax paid off debt…....WE ARE THE AWESOME SAUCE

I hope my little example has let you come to understand how they paid down debt again.

Feel free to ask more questions and i will be happy to help your education.

All the best.

jf says:

01:24pm | 14/11/10

Not likely SD.

The only two serious and effectual inquiries into Australia’s financial services sector in recent history have been under conservative Governments. The Campbell Inquiry and the Wallis Inquiry both delivered meaningful and real changes to the way that Australia’s financial system operates.

Now, I will willingly concede that the Hawke/Keating government did bring about meaningful reform as well. However, apart from prudential obligations being imposed on the banks, these reforms did more to liberalise the way that he markets operate rather than impose greater controls.

Ryan says:

11:56am | 12/11/10

@Fed Up: You are clearly not listening or don’t want to hear, Joe already provided a 9 point plan to try and help this incompetent Labor bunch (well probably because he cares more about the Australian public being rorted by the banks). This is just a small tidbit of what he would do, so what has Wayne and Julia done again?

MarK says:

12:06pm | 12/11/10

“The fact is 30% of the people in this country have mortgages.  The other 70% do not.”

All debt costs go up. The mortgage rate is the BBQ stopper. Business loans, credit cards etc etc etc all go up.

“The vast majority do however, have savings and the savers benefit form higher interest rates.”

Instead of having a whinge about Abbot why not ask Julia and Wayne why your deposit rates haven’t gone up by the interest rate rise and above?

Also please…..

“(Boo hoo to Wayne and the other apparatchiks who thought they would all soon have Com Cars )”

What the hell does this mean? Are you confusing Wayne Swan for a Liberal.

I don’t expect perfection but it spoils a good rant if you start bagging your own side.

“Some constructive policy development from the Coalition that doesn’t involve big new taxes such as those to pay for paid parental leave might however assist them”

Google Liberal Party and knock yourself out. Not looking is no excuse to make claims they have no policies.

Toodles

Vince says:

12:34pm | 12/11/10

I think you might be stretching it a bit to say Gillard will last the distance…mmmmm?? The polls have her heading south already and her training wheels are falling off, she’s supposed to be in her honeymoon period and we all know what that means to the Unions and faceless men of the ALP don’t we now.

StefanR says:

02:12pm | 12/11/10

@MarK: deposit rates have gone up by a lot more than mortgage rates have.

MarK says:

04:11pm | 12/11/10

StefanR I really really want to be wrong here but I dispute your contention just from my anecdotal experience.

By all means I will look for info but please provide me with a link if you have evidence.

TimB says:

09:51am | 13/11/10

I think he’s right MarK. But only because deposit rates (for normal savings accounts) were at just above 0% up untill the last couple of years.

Then the banks all started offering online savings accounts at half decent interest rates of 4%+ (Part of how they lured so many customers from the smaller players during the GFC).

It’s easy for the rates of these accounts to go up by heaps when you’re starting from zero. A better comparison would be to compare these rates to the RBA rate.

I guarantee now that when the banks put their mortgage rates up by over and above the reserve bank rate, their deposit rates stay exactly inline with the RBA raises. It’s hypocricy.

Dash says:

12:36pm | 12/11/10

Holly, interest rates were as low as 4.25% under the LNP. At present the cash rate is 4.75%. I think PC and JH did a better job than this rabble. Repaid $96billion of ALP debt, left over $20billion for Rudd to splash about with $900 handouts to dead people and people living overseas. Produced consistent surplus budgets. Drove significant GDP growth. Reduced unemployment to full employment levels.

Oh quick balme it on the mining boom! What about the overheating of the economy through the second stimulus Holly? Any impact there? What about the level of government spenditure? Any impact there? What will be the impact of the carbon tax on utility prices and the flow on when it gets passed down to the consumer Holly? Where’s grocery choice Hooly? Where’s fuelwatch Holly? Where’s our “Cheaper Better Childcare” Holly? Where’s our “More affordable Housing” Holly?

Keith Hammersmith says:

12:46pm | 12/11/10

pwned

Trent says:

05:23pm | 12/11/10

@Dash, whats your point? Interest rates were a lot lower under labor just 6 months ago than howard ever *produced*. Paying back *labors* $96B debt was actually all our debt from spending on vital infrastructure that was abandoned by the previous gov. These so called $20B surpluses came at the expense of funding for our health system, school infrastructure(yay for BER), roads, rail and ports and the dumping of the dental scheme just to name a few. People are easily lead to beleive that a surplus is a good thing, well some of us understand thats not the case when vital funding is withheld to produce a warm fuzzy feel good surplus. Abbott has done the single most destructive action to affect interest rates recently, and that was to chuck a hissy fit over the super profits tax which would have helped avoid the 2 speed economy. As if us battlers in Tasmania need higher interest rates because of mega profits generated in WA playing havoc with inflation. Keep whinging about fuel watch and grocery watch, it just shows how desperate you are to score a point for good ol tony. Government expenditure is another department liberals know all about, with howard spending $257M in advertising (brainwashing) about workchoices lol, lets not forget about johny spending $23M advertising the fact they were handing out $22M to single mums or some other middle class welfare buyoff. I shake my head when see people already whining about the cost of power if ever the carbon tax is introduced, why not start whining about $3.00 for a litre of fuel even though its not there yet? What will abbott do if he is ever elected, he would send this country broke overnight, we witnessed that posability already when he opposed the stimulus and any thing else that makes sense that labor bring before the senate. To see hockey whinging about our current debt shows how retarded liberal politics has become.

Dash says:

08:18am | 15/11/10

Trent, surely the recent low interest rates have been a product of the GFC. Everything else seems to be because of it. Or is that only the stuff that suits the ALP?

Just to clarify something Trent. The LNP agreed with and backed the first stimulus package. To say they opposed it is another ALP election lie. They did oppose the second round of stimulus spending and have been proved right to do so. The second round over heated the economy and started the rise in interest rates.

Do you balance your home budget Trent? How long would you survive racking up debt like the ALP? Would you be prepared to leave that too your children?

In terms of State government responsibilities for spending on schools and hospitals. You are absolutely correct. The Labor state governments have neglected infrustructure spending on hospitals roads and schools. The Howard government gave them 100% of the GST. Ask yourself, what your ALP state government has spent that on?

As for your rant on fuel, I remember the ALP bleating when it got to $1 a litre about the taxes on it. What have they done about it? Where’s rollback? Where’s fuelwatch? Where’s grocery choice? Where’s the “cheaper better childcare”?  Where’s the 260 childcare centres? Wheres the more affordable housing”? Where are the laptops? Where’s the ETS? Where’s the East Timor Solution that never existed? I guess the fact the ALP has not been able to keep any of it’s promises from 07 and has thrown all the 2010 ones out, is all Johnny’s fault too is it.

How many more insulation fiascos, green loans fiascos and ALP back builders rorting taxpayers money will it take for you to wake up Trent?

Sigh says:

03:56pm | 13/11/10

Very good point Andrew, but on the flip-side, will Tony Abbott adopt Joe Hockey’s plan or is that remaining solely Joe’s views?

If not, he’s equally worthless as silly Gilly.

Sarah says:

08:46am | 15/11/10

Rock on Scott. Beautifully said.