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January 26 the only day to celebrate, understand, mourn

Bob Carr

by Bob Carr

18 Jan 05:57am

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Filed under: Australia Day, History, Indigenous Australia, Patriotism, Society

55 comments

This article was written for The Australian ahead of Australia Day last year and is reprinted here.

1788: The arrival of civilisation in Australia.

MICK Dodson invites us - civilly and without a trace of anger - to open a conversation about January 26. It’s an indigenous perspective one can grasp immediately.

Aborigines lived here undisturbed for maybe 60,000 years, until one particular January 26 began their dispossession, and the lesser-known story of their resistance. It has always been my view, though, that we can make this part of the commemoration. After all Anzac Day recalls a tragedy, yet is part of our big story. And we remember it with respect, nonetheless.

Why is January 26 worth celebrating? There are many reasons.

Pass quickly over the astonishing achievement of Arthur Phillip. His 11 small vessels left England in May, 1787, crowded with about 1000 people, among them more than 700 convicts. They set a record in the number of vessels, the number of passengers and the distance covered. Never before had so many sailed so far.

But it might be more useful to focus on the notions they unloaded with them.

Some might think old-fashioned Manning Clark’s opening line that civilisation arrived in Australian in 1788. Still, in a land that had only seen hunter-gatherer cultures the arrival of the First Fleet was the start of settled communities on the Australian continent: buildings, bridges, villages, towns. It also brought the application of British common law to Australia and, eventually, government through parliament where, to be truthful, there had been only tribal systems and cycles of warfare. It brought a written language. Fortunate to be begun as an English settlement, too, because a revolution in England 100 years earlier - 1688 - had resulted in new constitutional arrangements to check the power of executive government. Out of English ideas and notions we acquired, in fits and starts, the institutions of a free society.

First there was an independent judiciary, in 1823. Trial by jury started in 1830. We fought for and won an elected legislative assembly in 1856. (Remember, though, that women could not vote until 1902 and Aborigines were excluded until 1968.) Free election of governments began in 1856 with the NSW Legislative Assembly, and it has been like that ever since. No coups, no street battles, no barricades, no guillotines. We are one of a handful of old, long-run democracies. This is part of the Australian achievement, our genius for a civilisation that quietly and decently works for its people.

You can trace it back to the long-cherished traditions brought by the sore and weary travellers who straggled out of long boats into eucalyptus forest that January, 221 years ago. They were ideas that eventually offered some justice to Aborigines.

In 1838, Judge Burton found seven white men guilty of the murder, at Myall Creek, of 28Aboriginal men, women and children.

The perpetrators were hanged.

In 1992 the High Court of Australia ruled in the Mabo case that native title over land exists, thus ending for all time the cruel doctrine of terra nullius, that the land was empty.

We should approach Australia Day, to understand, celebrate, commemorate and, yes, mourn, our nation’s history in its entirety.

But most are unlikely to accept it should become a day of apology. Instinctively we want to honour our achievements as a nation.

We should tell again the many stories that make up our history: that of the Aborigine, the convict, the governor, the soldier, the settler, the freed convict, the housemaid, the rouseabout, the migrant, the refugee.

Aboriginal Australia has in the past claimed January 26 as survival day - no, put that in capitals: Survival Day. It is the day indigenous Australians say that in spite of losing their land, in the face of shooting and exploitation and disease and alcohol they, a determined, resilient people, survived these 221 years.

Survived against the odds. And, on the day that marks the beginning of their dispossession, they boldly celebrate their survival, their culture, their achievements and their qualities as a people.

There is the unrivalled Aboriginal knowledge of the land, its plants, animals, climates, landscapes. There is Aboriginal art; some say, the best Australian modern art. There is their dance and music and their very character, especially their humour. And there is their contribution as teachers, doctors, athletes, tradesmen, soldiers, stockmen, farmers and public servants. They are a great part of our big story. They have a right to their pride, and their anger, and their grief. But we would be wrong to romanticise pre-1788 Australia. For Aboriginal women, especially, modern Australia offers a freedom that hunter-gatherer Australia never could.

For them and all of us, however, there is no alternative to January 26. Sure, January 1 is the anniversary of Federation in 1901 - but it is in the middle of the Australian Christmas break; a time absorbed with family matters, and an escape from civic activity. And likewise, it cannot be Anzac Day, since that day belongs to those who fought and died in wars, from the Sudan to Vietnam. The dawn service and the march should not be subsumed in any alternative celebration.

This leaves January 26, the day the whole brave, self-mocking, patient, largely successful exercise in nation-building began. It is the one day that speaks of all that happened, the good and bad, the inspiring and shaming. The story of us all. There is no alternative. And it is altogether appropriate. Let us put all reservations behind us.

Well used, it will tell future generations what really happened: the brutality, the heroism, the tenderness, the patience. It will teach the humility as well as pride.

Advance the Australian fair go and its inevitable symbol, Australia Day. There is no other day that says it all.

Most commented

353Lay off the tatts and have a debate about the real issues
304Dog ownership laws a load of total bullpit
286Why do our universities teach shonky "magic"?
232I'm Labor, I'm pro-life and I'm no political hypocrite
226Is an act of crime ever too trivial for investigation?
225Home births are prone to many complications
213Blame no one – and everyone – for the Oz Day debacle
185A fair day's pay for a fair day's play

55 comments

Show oldest | newest first

    • steve says:

      07:39am | 18/01/10

      Why on earth did you leave Government office?

      Reply

    • Residents of Sydney says:

      03:37pm | 19/01/10

      Are you serious?

    • S(r)ambo says:

      03:02pm | 13/01/12

      Tribal systems and constant warfare? He doesnt know as much as he thinks, the system of law puts english law to shame, you stuff up it dosent matter how rich or powerful your family are, you must face the law, they had a highly complex understanding of law across large areas (thousands of miles) if only the rapists and muderers here now could be stopped? Aboriginal culture is built on love and respect, when you read bobs piece you realise we havent come far, same idealology from the 19th century but whats worse is people still believe Aboriginal culture is ultra primative, jist wondering around aimlessly, must ask why Australia was descibed as a “gentalmens park”, we altered the enviroment to suit us and biodiversity, something aussies may never able to do. No matter what day its celebrated we still need to address these issues of Aboriginal dispossesion and the way Australia day exclude the first australians, and judging by bobs understanding of Aboriginal culture we need a lot more education of the public and for the children so they can rightly claim to know Australias history, which in turn trully makes you Australian, white Australia have a lot to learn about Aboriginals and their culture still after 230 years? Why?

    • John A Neve says:

      08:34am | 18/01/10

      Please tell what is different about Britain colonising Australia as against Britain colonising North America?

      History is all about one race dispossessing another of their land. If memory serves me correctly did not the Romans do the same to the British?

      I have never seen self-flagellation as a worth while pursuit.

      Reply

    • S(r)ambo says:

      03:22pm | 13/01/12

      No treaty, never declared war, and based ownership on terra nullius, now proven wrong, by not counting aboriginals as human, (counting cattle but not aboriginals in the census) english common law didnt apply to Aboriginal people, by claiming terra nullius you have made the bed aussies now lie in, best to deal with it instead of looking for a smoking gun to avoid your duty as a human, just deal with it, if their was no credibility to contest settlement we would never hear about aboriginal perspective bit we still do? Why? I suggest aussies learn a little about the country they claim to love, your own government are not explaining the real issue about settlement and are setting their own people to be shocked and behind the eightball, but if aussies are willing to stay blissfully ignorant then the fault is your own, maybe put your own agenda on the back burner and open your ears and eyes to gain some understanding, this will affect whole of Australian society and im at a loss to explain why the general public know so little, like bolt he thought he knew the law but the Aboriginals actually did know the law, thats whats happening at the national level, you will never know reading gossip papers and bias opinion pieces but may end up shocked when the facts matter more then the un-informed public opinion

    • Bill says:

      08:39am | 18/01/10

      Who did the Aborigines wipe out to take over their land?  Some Prehistoric Clan or something?  Is it possible?

      Reply

    • Paddy says:

      08:41am | 18/01/10

      If it wasn’t for Australia Day then there would not be some very wealthy aboriginal businessmen and more importantly there would not be very wealthy white business men and women who make massive money from the aboriginal industry.
      Remember the reason ATSIC was wound up by Howard and Costello was because the corruption so excessive it was unable to be audited. Rather than run down the corruption and prosecute it was simply more expedient to wind it up. Now Rudd wants another one and with the same players putting up their hands to run it. So once again the aboriginal people will receive no benefits but a few will gain massively, aboriginals as well as white folk.
      That is, unless Noel Pearson and Sharon Firebrace run it. Then we might see some real ethics, morals and maybe just see real benefits flowing to the aboriginal communities. We can only hope.

      Reply

    • Dorothy says:

      12:03pm | 19/01/10

      Paddy you really need to know what you are talking about and get the facts straight. $1500 was unaccounted for not the millions the spin wanted you to believe it was all to take over the land and peoples. Now you call us rockspiders and you ahve a government who is comfortable to let the people think that. I wsa taken at an early age no reason except I ws colored . Wake up and realise this policie is about conquer and divide.

    • soultrader says:

      08:44am | 18/01/10

      Is it time we all turned around, took a step forward and started looking to the future. If you keep looking backwards, you will trip over and any progress will be slow.
      Wake up all Australians.
      We all have our lot in life.
      Either run with it or move to the side and let others pass you by.

      Reply

    • Francis Forbes says:

      09:59am | 18/01/10

      I used to celebrate Australia day with pride and was proud of where we have been and where we are know. But I feel kind of racist now that I choose to celebrate the day.  It is now Invasion Day a day in which we should hang our heads in shame and feel guilty for celebrating a birth of what I used to think was a great nation

      Reply

    • DG says:

      10:25am | 18/01/10

      *Warning - long, possibly incoherent, post*

      Welcome to “Invasion day” - the anniversary of the day in which the Eora nation was invaded by the English - the Birth of Australia as part of the Commonwealth.


      To begin with a few minor comments:

      * “Aborigines were excluded until 1968” That’s not completely true. As males (women were not entitled to vote) in the British empire they were entitled to vote in state elections and I have read instances of Aboriginal men seeking to exercise those rights as early as the late 1800’s. The federal government of the era worked hard to take those rights away (Aboriginal people retained the right to vote in most states) up until around 1950. However there were aboriginal people voting in federal elections during that period - albeit very few and at substantial personal risk.

      All the 1967 referendum really did was include aboriginal people in the referendum and to allow the Commonwealth to make laws with respect to the Aboriginal people. Nothing in that gave Aboriginal people the right to vote.

      * Before we put the Myall Creek massacre up as a triumph for criminal justice, While it was the first time any person was hanged for a crime against an Aboriginal person - similar massacres continued for some years without any further punishment.

      There is an alternative to January 26. February 13. The day that Australia, as a nation, demonstrated that it had achieved maturity by accepting responsibility for its previous behaviour. Australia has done many things over the past 222 years - much of which we have every reason to be proud, some for which we should be ashamed.

      Having said that, there are few around the word who repeatedly celebrate coming to maturity - each celebrate the day that they came into being (in their present incarnation) - Australia, as it is today, began on 26 January 1788 - and for that reason, and that reason alone we should retain 26 January as our national day. A day to celebrate our existence and to remember the good and the bad for our 222 year history.

      AI argue that Australia came to maturity on that fateful day because, while we have been willing to accept Australia’s positive history and claim it as our own (thinks the ANZACS, Charles Kingsford Smith’s aviation achievements, federation) and we even acknowledged some of our past errors such as the White Australia Policy we have been, until just a few years ago, unwilling to accept responsibility for one of our biggest failures (the stolen generation). That capacity to accept responsibility demonstrates our maturity.

      As an aside - I would argue that it was inevitable that the Aboriginal people were going to be dragged kicking and screaming into the modern world - there was no way that the northern world would allow the great southern land to continue uninterrupted (like some of the groups in the Amazon which have been left to their own devices). The Aboriginal people could have done much worse than they fared at the hands of the English (consider the Spanish approach to the south Americas). There is much to be thankful for, just as there is much to be angry about - but neither defines Australia nor does it define the future of the relationship between the Aboriginal people and the Australian government.

      To those that say the Aboriginal people should have been left alone - I reply that it was never a possibility, but even so, it is not what happened - we must move forward. From here, regrettably, assimilation is unavoidable. That does not mean that we must lose our history, our heritage or our language. But it does mean that we must include ourselves as “Australians” - we must cease behaving like the southern cross wearing trouble makers in Cronulla and lose our obsession with “we were here first”. We, as a people must move forward and make the most of what we have - as our forefathers did before us.

      For 60,000 years out ancestors lived in this hostile country making the most of what they had and developing a culture of which we remain proud - what better way can honour our ancestors, and respect our culture, than to continue to make the best of what we have?

      Reply

    • Mrs James says:

      10:27am | 18/01/10

      My came here as convicts and free settlers,  in recent years its hit home to me that this land belonged to someone else and we should be celebrating our Aboriginal owners as well. I am very very grateful my family came here. I love Australia and I would never want to be in any other country. We need a thank you day to the traditional owners.

      Reply

    • Charles Kelly says:

      11:17am | 18/01/10

      Really steve (07:39am | 18/01/10), you wonder “why on earth did [Bob Carr] leave Government office?” At the time he had little choice but get out of there as fast as he could. He was personally instrumental in the corrupt back room dealings with the Macquarie Bank and other shareholders in the Sydney’s Cross City Tunnel, which saw the lives and livelihoods of local residents and businesses massively disrupted (still to this day) through the deliberately extortionate tactics of closing or narrowing a large amount of local roads to force motorists into paying to use the Cross City Tunnel. Bob Carr fled from office just as the media were about to blow the story wide open - straight into the cushy highly paid position with the Macquarie Bank he recieved as payment for his part in helping line the pockets of these lowlife extortionists.

      Are memories really that short? Let’s not forget that Bob Carr is the reason Sydney is in such a sorry state at the moment. He created the problems - it’s just that as his equally incompetent successors have been so momumentally inept in all attempts to clean up Carr’s mess, they currently bear the brunt of the blame. From anyone who’s fed up with the pathetic joke Sydney has become at the hands of the state Labor government, this devious grub deserves no respect whatsoever.

      Reply

    • martha says:

      06:13pm | 18/01/10

      nice one charles.  it’s an article about australia day.  sure it’s written by a former politician but it’s still an article about australia day.  how about you contribute instead of whinging like a spoilt little child.

    • Chris says:

      03:45pm | 19/01/10

      I’m not going to tell you that you are right or wrong on your frankly libelous claims. I simply want to see some proof on your claims, if you please.

      Where is all of this proof that was going to be used by “The Media” (whoever that is) to “blow it wide open”?

      I’m going to assume you have no proof, so get off that rather tall horse of yours and read the damn thing. This has everything to do with our national identity and nothing to do with your conspiracy theory excuse for personal political beliefs.

    • Charles Kelly says:

      04:21pm | 19/01/10

      Chris, I was part of the committee that got some of these roads reopened. I was involved in the process and I’m well aware of what transpired. What went on is a matter of public record. Go look it up yourself.

      A question was asked and I answered it - simple as that. If it doesn’t interest you, don’t read it. I couldn’t care less that the answer just so happens to challenge your personal political delusions.

    • Charles Kelly says:

      11:27am | 18/01/10

      If the British hadn’t settled Australia, another nation soon would have - possibly resulting in the complete genocide of the native population. What followed certainly wasn’t perfect, but perhaps instead of whingeing about the country being “invaded”, we should be celebrating Australia’s original inhabitants being “rescued” from a fate far worse?

      Reply

    • Al says:

      11:30am | 19/01/10

      Yeh, those whinging ungrateful Aboriginees should be kissing the feet of the white man for saving them from other white men potentially annihilating them by conducting a war of annihilation themselves! Cheers to the Brits for being so kind!

    • Charles Kelly says:

      01:35pm | 19/01/10

      So you have preferred that the British avoided this country altogether Al? I guess at least Australia’s original inhabitants wouldn’t be complaining now if their entire race had been wiped out altogether - that suit you Al? Or perhaps you’d have preferred that they’d all been sold into slavery?

    • kelly says:

      09:39am | 25/07/10

      SO you think to justify what happened to Indigenous Australians by saying its best this evil then an imaginary evil? Perhaps you should watch an unhealthy government experiement ep 5 SBS. How can anybody say that what happened was better then what could of happened? That is a ridiculous statement. Children were chained at the neck at ages younger then 5 yrs old, they were marched sometimes 1000km away from their families to be taught the white way, and all in the name of ‘protecting them’. Half castes were called children of the devil. Indigenous Australians were told they were dumb and could not learn past the ages of 8 and 9 yrs. They had their land taken, not just their land as we see it (a piece of dirt) but their Kanyini, their connection to it. Perhaps you should do some research before you even consider minimising what has happened to the Indigenous people of Australia.

    • Francis Forbes says:

      11:35am | 18/01/10

      @Mrs James

      Perhaps you are right, Australia Day has become so negative and a national thank- you day is a good idea

      Reply

    • Scott Glennon says:

      11:53am | 18/01/10

      Settlement in Australia could have been done better. But what a mighty fine country we live in now.

      Reply

    • bob says:

      12:30pm | 18/01/10

      Yes there have been regretful mistakes and abuses in settlement, but those who label the day Invasion Day in some kind of self-loathing denigration of all the tremendous benefits brought to Australia to make it the country it is today deserve to have their place taken here by someone who will appreciate it.

      Am so sick of these perpetually whingeing, backward looking pessimistic idiots.

      Reply

    • Helen says:

      03:02pm | 18/01/10

      “Mrs James”, I think that’s a lovely and positive idea. As long as we don’t whitewash (no pun intended) what happened after European settlement. The “Bob"s on this thread need to understand that “tremendous benefits” (which many indigenous people still don’t share in to the extent that he does) don’t justify what went on. Would you go into your neighbour’s house and remove two of their children and kill a couple of the grandparents or uncles in order to further some end, and then expect them to be grateful?

      Reply

    • John A Neve says:

      03:46pm | 18/01/10

      Helen @1502hrs,

      Says “Would you go into your neighbour’s house and remove two of their children and kill a couple of the grandparents or uncles in order to further some end, and then expect them to be grateful?”

      The answer Helen, is of course YES, we are doing it right now in two countries. We do it in the name of DEMOCRACY (our version).

      Reply

    • Francis Forbes says:

      04:37pm | 18/01/10

      I was thinking what would happen if Australia wasnt colonized by the English. There would be a couple of outcomes as far as I could see and it would look alot like Africa. Africa is a mixture of colonization from just about every country north of it. Including Spain, France, Italy, Holland, Portugal, England, Belgium, Arabic peoples and I think the Germans had a shot as well I think . And its a total night mare for those peoples usually invovled the removal of wealth, production of slaves and some sort fo colonial conflict.

      Or if there shackles of the colonial power have been removed a civil war usually ensues with child soldiers, starvations, genocide and systematic blood shed and general poverty.


      I cant see Australia being any different from Africa if England didnt claim all of the coast for its Monarch. I would say compared to Africa today the Australian aboriginal should be bloody thankful the Cpt Cook landed here. England hardly were human, moral or know for human rights but they were are dam sight better than most other countries of that time and as a result we have no civil conflicts and not tribalism Maybe we should march and say thank you to England for landing here and laying the foundations of a great nation.

      Reply

    • Davy says:

      04:52pm | 18/01/10

      Perhaps we need to examine more closely what australia was before “invasion”. I would suggest the reading of an anthropology treatise by Baldwin G Spencer entitled “The Native Tribes of Central Australia”.
      Helen if you read this work it may shed some light on whether or not you would go into somebody elses house and dispatch some of them.
      There is a huge cultural disparity between how indiginous australia was, and how it is becoming, due to what I would argue is actually a positive influence.
      We are so willing to take for granted the way of life that we have and forget that the way here was sometimes paved with blood. We denigrate it because we take for granted the hard won positive aspects.

      Reply

    • Anthony says:

      05:00pm | 18/01/10

      Another Sorry Day setup to replace Australia Day would not be celebrated or even recognised by me. We pay (socially & with huge amounts of cash) for the “transgressions” of previous generations. I am personally not sorry for anything - my ancestors left England & Scotland for a better life, did no harm to any aborigines (as far as I am aware) & I am glad that they made the sacrifices that they did….....

      Reply

    • S.L says:

      05:04pm | 18/01/10

      @ Charles Kelly. Interesting point that if the British hadn’t settled Australia, another nation soon would have. Now I’m no historical scholar but I seem to remember being taught the first fleet arrived at Botany Bay one whole day before the Frenchman La Perous. I’m might be wrong but that sticks in my mind. Could we have ended up Bilingual like Canada?
      As for your view on Mr Carr. How short does a memory have to be? NSW does not have to mean “Newcastle Sydney Wollongong” there is a bigger picture than the one you just painted.
      What state was NSW in before the current Labor government took office? Not real flash as I seem to recall. There are many examples of jobs for the boys on boths sides of politics. I for one was sorry to see him go. You’re still into the personal insults I see.

      Reply

    • adam macleod says:

      05:23pm | 18/01/10

      I think that Bob’s point is that we should be aware of our history…the good and bad…and maybe reflect on this during Australia day.  This might involve investigating Aboriginal culture and the dreamtime, British colonization, or the migration and integration of different cultures over the last century.

      This is in contrast to draping ourselves in the Australian flag, drinking a 6-pack of VB and telling people that if they don’t love it they should leave.

      Reply

    • David says:

      05:25pm | 18/01/10

      Anything that actually helps people remember soemthing about their history is a good thing. We are all doomed to repeat past mistakes if we forget history, which unfortunately too many Australians have. Its amazing how one of the most important fields of study is also one of the least wel known…

      Reply

    • Charles Kelly says:

      06:17pm | 18/01/10

      You’re still into the blinkered denial I see, S.L.

      I was also sorry to see Bob Carr go - well, at least when he did. I would have loved for him to stick around just a little longer and face the music for corruptly selling out inner-city Sydney purely for personal gain. True to form though, he took the coward’s way out and bolted for the door, spinelessly leaving his successor to take the heat.

      Anyone genuinely capable of denying that NSW has been in a steady state of decline under the current Labor government is in serious need of psychiatric attention.

      Reply

    • steve payne says:

      08:37pm | 18/01/10

      Let us not forget the past but we must move on, the aboriginals had their own flaws.
      They are a nomadic race who themselves committed horrific crimes against themselves as they don’t get along with each other.
      We cannot excuse things that happend over 200 years ago, we have grown
      and matured as a nation and have a lot to be proud of.
      There are many countries that are 10 times worse than Australia,we must all be tolerant of each other and try hard to get along.
      We have a great nation let us all be proud and try to improve.
      steve payne

      Reply

    • Bindu Bhedan says:

      08:43pm | 18/01/10

      To Bill, I think that the peoples who inhabited gondwanaland, ie Australia before the Aboriginies were called Mungo Man. The Ancient Aboriginies came from the Ancient Java Man. Someone may correct me on that if they like.

      Reply

    • CJ says:

      01:31am | 19/01/10

      1788 is rightly celebrated as the year that a stone age race was forced to confront reality. The happy accident by which distance and ocean had protected them was over, and for the better. It is a complete fiction that they had existed in some state of perfect harmony with nature. Their lives, as far as we know, were a constant struggle for the barest necessities. Tribes were constantly at war (are they going to apologise to one another for past injustices?). It was the harsh, barren existence of a prehistoric people.
      The way forward is for the modern Aborigine (who is most likely of mixed race) to realise that his culture, language, tribal heritage and land are all gone. Finished.
      It is a shame to lose those things, but to be fair, they had a good run for many centuries. Times change. Some countries simply get invaded and there are lives lost. Cultures are driven to extinction sometimes.
      Aboriginal culture exists in museums, souvenir kiosks and the travelling performers who play digeridoos for school kids during NAIDOC week. Honestly, the average person doesn’t care a damn about it. It is of marginal historical interest, at best.
      Modern Aborigines have to get on with life in the modern Australia and drop all the blackfella-whitefella, “our mob”-“their mob” mentality.

      Reply

    • Jon says:

      10:18am | 19/01/10

      Completely Agree. It is time to move on. I have seen nothing to suggest the Aboriginal culture/way of life was anything that wasn’t greatly improved with the arrival of the first fleet. It’s about time we stop segregating the ‘aboriginal people’ and exist as Australians, stop the hand outs and seperate policies, We are now all Australian and thats what the focus should be on.

      Now whilst the encyclopedia dramatica article was absolutely terrible, it did raise some questions that seem to be glossed over during my mandatory ‘learn about aboriginals’ school experience. Why do we not discuss that the Aboriginal people did not exist before settlement, they were just waring tribes. Just how did they actually exist? from what i’ve read it was ‘barely’. Why in 60,000years did they not invent the things that many other ‘people’ invented in much shorter periods, i.e. the wheel, bow & arrow, gunpowder, etc etc other than the three sticks (boomerang, digereedoo, spear).

      There is nothign to suggest the aboriginal people existed at all, more a stoneage type of existance of many different waring tribes, the first fleet brought order and culture to the land. The aboriginal people and the apologisers need to forget the past and recognise we are all australian, nothing more nothing less, move on

    • Dorothy says:

      12:09pm | 19/01/10

      How dare you say forget our culture. This is just about the only country i the world thats tried to wipe out Indigenous Culture it started with the name. So if I am reading your post correctly you expect us to take on everyones overseas culture and drama and forget ours. Wake up stop being racist

    • John A Neve says:

      02:37pm | 19/01/10

      Dorothy @ 1209hrs,

      What culture are you talking about Dorothy?
      Prior to the caucasian colonisation there was no culture here. A few rudimentary tools/weapons, a waste dump or two (shells & bones), but
      little else. Not even a nation as such, just a few scattered tribes, many of which never knew the others existed.

    • Jon says:

      02:56pm | 19/01/10

      Yes Dorothy, some good specific examples would be good to help me understand what ‘culture’ you are talking about. 60,000 years, surely there must be many many examples.

      No one ever talks about them, and yet expect to honour them….what exactly?

    • Ben says:

      03:26pm | 19/01/10

      What kind of examples do you racists want?  Ancient aboriginal rock art?  Initiation ceremonies (distasteful as they may be by today’s standards)?  Funeral ceremonies?  Corroborees?  Aboriginal language?  How about Dreamtime stories?  Are any of these proof of culture before 1788? 

      What’s next on your agenda guys?  Invading the Amazon to make sure that the native people there can enjoy watching Oprah Winfrey on 50 inch plasmas?  Damn savages that don’t even have televisions.  They should be ashamsed of themselves!  How can they have culture without television?

      Hey, maybe we should talk about the culture that was forced upon the aboriginal people since 1788?  You know, the culture of murder, rape, theft, sickness and poverty.  But hey, that was all their fault, I guess.  Maybe if they were better at killing each other, gunpowder would have been invented, and the invasion halted.  Those poor Amazonian natives had better get to inventing, hey Jon?

    • Jon says:

      04:11pm | 19/01/10

      @Ben 3:26PM

      so in 60,000 years nothing was invented, talking and 3 sticks, however that is irrelevant to the actual issues.

      Personally this constant them v us mentality is going nowhere, how about we all just accept that the Australia we have today began in1788, it is a history for ALL of us and we can ALL move on with that, there is no need to try and segregate elements of our society into different “cultures” at some point someone has to ‘move on’. I certainly dont carry on about lost parts of my culture from centuries ago, couldnt even tell you what made up my culture pre-1788 and quite frankly I don’t care either. I’m sure I could dig back far enough and carry on that my pagan culture is not being recognised and respected etc etc but the world evolves thats the point of existing and moving forward.

      If we dump all this fantasy guilt the apologisers want us to have and just move on as one people with one government, one flag, one system of society (lets stop the seperate departments, handouts etc) Australia will be a much better country for it. I have no problem with a person of an aboriginal background, its not me thats racist its the people and systems that are in place that segregate him/her as someone different, I actually work with an aboriginal man, i see him as Australian, the government sees him as Aboriginal (cheaper mortgage rate, ABstudy not Ausstudy, “are u an aboriginal” on the employment form) there is no need to make the distinction, there is nothing wrong with being Australian, all Australians should be proud to be Australian. And why anyone wants to be identified as anything but Australian is beyond me. Nothing will change the past so stop banging on about it, most of us are sick of hearing it and you are doing your ‘cause’ no favors.

    • John A Neve says:

      04:15pm | 19/01/10

      Ben @ 1526hrs,

      Firstly I am not racist any more than you are. Based on your post I’d suggest less.

      As for your supposed examples; many ancient peoples practiced rock art, we all have stories, dancing, what’s special about that, language, which one? Nothing you have mentioned Ben, is specific to ancient Australians.

    • Ben says:

      04:45pm | 19/01/10

      @John A Neve.
      “Prior to the caucasian colonisation there was no culture here. A few rudimentary tools/weapons, a waste dump or two (shells & bones)...” (2:37)

      “As for your supposed examples; many ancient peoples practiced rock art, we all have stories, dancing, what’s special about that, language, which one?” (3:26)

      So in one post you argue there is no culture from 60,000 years, and then in another you argue “what’s special about that”.  So, now there is culture, but because it isn’t special to you, it should be disregarded?

      As for languages, a simple google check would have given you the following link:
      http://www.creativespirits.info/aboriginalculture/language/index.html
      Make sure to pay attention to the number of languages in NSW before 1788, and the number that remain now.

    • Al says:

      05:05pm | 19/01/10

      What exact “culture” did the first Brits bring exactly and how is Australia a “cultural” place today? What exactly is Australian culture today, getting drunk at the cricket, Australian Rules football? Please, Australia is hardly a bastion of the arts and the sciences. 
      Besides a culture of crime, alcoholism and genocide, what exact culture is it that the whites brought that the indigenous populations should be thankful for?

    • John A Neve says:

      05:35pm | 19/01/10

      Ben @ 1645hrs,

      No where have I mentioned 60,000 years Ben. You must have your posts mixed!!!

      You have still to tell what culture you and Dorothy are on about.

    • Ben says:

      05:43pm | 19/01/10

      @John A. Neve.
      I forgot to add, less racist than me???  Bahahahahahahahahahahaha.

      Keep telling yourself that as you argue that aboriginal culture is irrelevant and confined to “Prior to the caucasian colonisation there was no culture here. A few rudimentary tools/weapons, a waste dump or two (shells & bones), but little else. . “

      PS.  Sorry for laughing at you, but everytime I read that comment, I have to struggle to suppress my belly laugh.  Not racist… Bah… (oops, I’m starting again).

    • CJ says:

      09:58pm | 19/01/10

      Well, in my initial post, I certainly said nothing about Aboriginal culture being worthless—it was all they had to give them meaning in an unforgiving environment. I simply spoke the truth about it being, for all practical purposes, a lost culture, like many thousands of lost cultures before it. Terrible, yes. And I would never seek to defend rape and murder. The diseases, however, were unavoidable.
      Tell you what, I’d like the time and resources to do a poll of every aboriginal person in Australia (including myself: my great-grandfather was quite dark-skinned, but I have no idea what “percentage” Aboriginal I am).
      The questions would be entirely hypothetical:
      1. Given the chance, would you wish for your people to return to their condition as it existed in 1787?
      2. If so, would you wish for the complete dismantling of western civilisation to facilitate such a return (this would include giving up every train, road, piece of steel, window, house, car, wristwatch, shirt, shoe, pen, school, computer, pub, book, rifle, courthouse—and so on, obviously and infinitely)?
      The point is, I wonder how many aborigines really want to return to a truly tribal existence—an existence they know nothing about? No, the old ways are gone. Regrettable, but welcome to the modern world in all its brutality and brilliance. By all means, embrace the old ways if you want to, but they will get you absolutely nowhere in a modern, techological, scientific world.

    • John A Neve says:

      07:18am | 20/01/10

      Ben @ 1743hrs yesterday,

      Based on your first post I’d say you were very racist.  As to you laughing,
      I thought it was more of a bray, you know the noise asses make.

      Still can’t provide any examples Ben !!! I thought not, you and Dorothy just keep braying.

    • S.L says:

      06:58am | 19/01/10

      A cowards way out CK? I’m sure if there was anything to answer to he would’ve been made accountable in the courts or media by now. Have a close look at your radio old mate, there are other stations on the dial to listen to besides 2GB.
      On the other subject I find your theory interesting but quite possible. What if La Perous was 2 days earlier?

      Reply

    • Charles Kelly says:

      09:16am | 19/01/10

      Yes S.L,  Bob Carr deliberately resigned just as the story was breaking. He took the coward’s way out - knowing that in politics, once you’re out of office there’s bugger all accountability. Residents of inner-city Sydney are still paying for this filthy weasel’s greed and corruption.

      The Lapérouse expedition was one of exploration, not colonisation - and two days would have made no difference whatsoever.

      Reply

    • Charles Kelly says:

      04:22pm | 19/01/10

      Nice one martha. You’ve gone and done exactly what you criticised me for - except that I was actually answering a question already posted here. How about you contribute instead of bleating like a self-righteous hypocrite.

      Reply

    • passing wind says:

      05:09pm | 19/01/10

      Why is it that anyone who criticises the Aboriginals or any ethnic minority or makes a negative comment is immediately branded a racist? And yet, it’s all right for any ethnic group including Aborigines to criticise the majority of Australians without reproach.

      Reply

    • Ben says:

      05:37pm | 19/01/10

      @ Jon

      “so in 60,000 years nothing was invented, talking and 3 sticks, however that is irrelevant to the actual issues.”

      Who invented the didgeridoo?  Walk into any souvenir shop and have a look at what tourists are buying.  A very large part of Australian culture wouldn’t you say, Jon?  And to think, it was invented by aborigines.  Must be a conspiracy and the instrument indeed invented by Captain Cook.

      And my response, whilst not referring to Bob Carr’s article (which I actually agreed with - Australia Day should remain as it is), referred directly to yours and John A. Neve’s comments, arguing about the lack of culture in Aboriginal history.  So it is relevant to the issues that YOU two individuals brought up. 

      If you don’t care about your possibly pagan culture, that’s fine, but don’t argue that everyone should forget Aboriginal culture just because you don’t care for it.  I don’t care for the Catholic church, but I don’t have anything against other people wanting to carry on it’s traditions.  Nor do I mock them.  In fact, many of the catholic principles make up Australian values, those values that I happen to share.  You know, values such as compassion…

      Further, why shouldn’t aboriginal people get some form of additional benefits from the government?  You ever try to claw yourself out of poverty that was thrust upon you?  Fortunately, neither have I, but I have witnessed it’s effects first hand.  Misery begets misery, Jon.  And yes, the government should provide compensation.  Who were among the wealthiest individuals in the 19th century?  Could it be land owners?  Who did they buy this land from, Jon?  How much did the Crown pay to the original owners?  What would all that land be worth in today’s dollars?

      Also, the Australia we have today did not start in 1788.  Women were not allowed to vote till 1902 and Aboriginals till 1968.  I was born in 1980, so my people were not even recognised by the federal government till only 13 years before I was born.  And you say that the Australia of today started in 1788.  Pfft.

      And, since Jon said so, I must apologise to all my people, for doing our “cause” no favours.  I am sorry that I am proud of our heritage and that I don’t want to see it forgotten by the likes of Jon.  I hope I can be forgiven.  (By the way Jon, you might be sick of hearing it, but it doesn’t change the fact that a great injustice occured, and as yet nothing of any substance done to rectify the problems it has caused).

      Reply

    • Jon says:

      09:33am | 20/01/10

      @ Ben

      The Digeridoo was one of the 3 sticks I mentioned (spear and boomerang being the other two)

      Regardless…....

      I don’t see a reason why any aboriginal person being born in todays society should be any worse off than an Australian, so no I dont think additional benefits from the government is warranted. The government provides benefits for Asutralians who need it, theres no need for special benefits because one wants to be classed as an Aboriginal.

      NO one helped me get where I am today, there’s nothign stopping these people who have had “poverty thrust upon them” from getting a job working hard buying a house raising a family etc etc on their own, I had to do it and I am nothing special. I became a “land owner” all on my own regardless of any unfortunate hsitory that might have befallen ‘my people’, what did or did not happen to ancient relatives of mine had no bearing on what I have achieved in my own life without additional support.

      I see no reason to continue the racist policies of segregating the aboriginal people as something seperate to Australian. We are all Australian and we all have the same day to day issues to deal with, as I said before lets move on.

    • CJ says:

      01:43am | 20/01/10

      Ben, the thing is that civil government did begin in Australia in 1788. That is, the rule of humane law, as handed down reliably and verifiably by courts (and not just word-of-mouth “tradition”) over many years. True, the legal institution was imported, but so was everything in post-1788 Australia.
      Governor Phillip (who should, I believe, occupy a status equal with Cook as an explorer and seaman) was under strict orders to treat the natives fairly, and so he did. Marines and convicts were put to death for wantonly killing the Aborigines, and it worked in reverse.
      I don’t know why there are arguments over this, even to this day. None of it can have been good, at the time, for Aboriginal people; in the long term, however, they are better off for living in the modern world. They just have to get on with it.
      The shock to Aboriginal culture post-1788 was devastating and permanent. It must have been a terrible and bewildering time for such an ancient race.
      Nonetheless, it happened. It is, or should be, over now. There is no going back. Time to move on.
      The Rainbow Serpent is gone, along with all the other primitive dreamtime legends. (Noone even knows if the Rainbow Serpent legend was the same in 1788CE as it was in 5000BCE or any other time in the last 40,000 years—the likelihood is remote, and it is the same for any ancient society which left no records. We just have a snapshot of how we found them—little else). Whatever their longevity, these dreaming tales are nice little stories for kindergarten children, occupying a place similar to Cinderella and Snow White. They are the stuff of unscientific, yet highly imaginative, people.
      Drop the old, dead legends and move on. Think of the land differently. It is the only way.

      Reply
 
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