It’s never too early to start learning how to drive

Wayne Kerr says:

10:38am | 21/08/12

@Chris

In NSW there are three licences;

Gold - Clean driving record and the licence is for 5 years and on a per year basis costs less.

Silver - Can’t remember but lasts 3 years

Bronze - bad driving record and is reneable every year

Or something along those lines

colin says:

10:56am | 21/08/12

@Chris 10:16am | 21/08/12

“BTW, what is a ‘gold’ licence, Lucy?”

It’s a permit issued on behalf of Her Royal Highness Queen Victoria by Governor Fitzroy of the colony of New South Wales to search for gold.

Chris says:

11:02am | 21/08/12

Well, I don’t live in NSW (most Australians don’t), so why should I be expected to know everything about that state’s driver licensing system?

Perhaps Lucy should write for all Australians, not just the minority who live in NSW.

Inky says:

11:19am | 21/08/12

“It’s a permit issued on behalf of Her Royal Highness Queen Victoria by Governor Fitzroy of the colony of New South Wales to search for gold. “

+1 internets to you, sir.

M says:

11:20am | 21/08/12

Minority? That’s funny.

M says:

11:21am | 21/08/12

What menace, chris?

M says:

12:07pm | 21/08/12

I said, What Menace Chris!!!!!!! Why don’t you answer me?!??!?

Admiral Ackbar says:

12:10pm | 21/08/12

I’d say the biggest menace on the roads is the lack of any kind of spatial or situational awareness in most drivers. In addition, hesitant and overly cautious, indecisive drivers would also be the most dangerous. ‘Hoon’ drivers and these ‘menaces’ that Chris speaks of are rare, whereas slow, indecisive, unaware and generally shit drivers are everywhere and present a far greater risk.

Make testing more rigorous, and make people actually earn a license. As Greg says below, learning to drive a manual and defensive driving courses should be mandatory. People need to realise that having a license is a privelage, not a right.

Inky says:

01:27pm | 21/08/12

“I said, What Menace Chris!!!!!!! Why don’t you answer me?!??!? “

Somedays I have to wonder about you M.

M says:

01:37pm | 21/08/12

“...People need to realise that having a license is a privelage (sic), not a right.”

And let’s not forget teaching people how to spell proply to!

M says:

01:38pm | 21/08/12

“...People need to realise that having a license is a privelage (sic), not a right.”

And let’s not forget teaching people how to spell proply to!

M says:

01:54pm | 21/08/12

Inky, some other wanker is using M as their name. It should be pretty easy to differentiate between the two. One is an arrogant know it all wanker and the other is just retarded.

colin says:

01:58pm | 21/08/12

“Somedays I have to wonder about you M.”

I never wonder about you, Icky.

colin says:

02:35pm | 21/08/12

colin says: 01:58pm | 21/08/12
“Somedays I have to wonder about you M.”

I never wonder about you, Icky.

Hmmmm. There seems to be more than one of me about again today…

sunny says:

03:17pm | 21/08/12

Colin I might jus gets me one a them and go do some prospectin’ up in the hills. Now that’s what I call livin’.

Loddlaen says:

03:18pm | 21/08/12

I’m now wondering if Colin and M are both the same person. Including the twon fake ones :O

Loddlaen says:

04:10pm | 21/08/12

“I’m now wondering if Colin and M are both the same person. Including the twon fake ones :O”

Do you now?

Scotchfinger (Version 1) says:

05:29pm | 21/08/12

reading this thread gives me a headache and makes me doubt my sanity. Goodnight gentlemen.

Hamlyn says:

03:30pm | 21/08/12

To be a good driver I think you also have to be a patient driver and understanding of others on the road. You have to have the attitude that just because you technically have the right of way it doesnt mean you should always force the issue. Sometimes you learn this by being scared a few times. So I agree.
I worry about those who are so self absorbed that they hate every other type of vehicle on the road - bicycles, motorbikes, 4wds, vans, trucks. Unfortunately if you think your bullet proof you might just come off second best. It doesnt matter whos at fault. The end results the same.

Little Joe says:

12:06pm | 21/08/12

Damn Zombies!!! Even if you can run fast they will most certainly beat you in a marathon!!!

You know .... if it wasn’t for Zombies I would have bought a convertable.

Mahhrat says:

02:00pm | 21/08/12

As soon as the apocalypse hits, I’m wandering down the road to the local Army base and hijacking a Jeep.  Those things are damn near indestructible.

M says:

02:51pm | 21/08/12

Steal a Unimog instead.

bananabender says:

03:46pm | 21/08/12

The driving test in Finland is incredibly hard to pass. It takes 15 hours professiopnal instruction, 20 theory lessons, a very difficult practical test including skidpan tests. There is also a very strict two year probation period - you can lose your licence for very minor infringments and have to sit another driving test and restart your probation.

Admiral Ackbar says:

12:14pm | 21/08/12

And we all know who they are: the stupidly unaware and hesitant drivers among us who likely are the least deserving of a drivers license. You know, the type who blame speed as the main cause of accidents and such.

M says:

12:38pm | 21/08/12

In other words, the people who have bought into the speed kills mantra and are afraid to push the accelerator more than 5mm.

M says:

12:41pm | 21/08/12

“And we all know who they are: the stupidly unaware and hesitant drivers among us…”

Yes, you for one.

M says:

01:02pm | 21/08/12

One of these M’s is not like the other.

M says:

02:07pm | 21/08/12

Sigh. There seems to be an M on here that isn’t me.

PeterM says:

02:27pm | 21/08/12

Preach it brother.

M says:

03:00pm | 21/08/12

It’s alright mate, i’m not attached to the letter. I’m willing to share, most regulars will be able to pick the difference.

Gordon says:

03:05pm | 21/08/12

it’s an Mpersonater!, no! an Mposter!

Hamlyn says:

12:03pm | 21/08/12

I agree with this comment. I dont believe anyone should be able to have a license if they cant drive a manual. (except for someone with a medical condition).  If they can text and drive they can surely coordinate the gears and a clutch. Bring in a mandatory test in a manual for everyone, every 10 years to weed out the unsafe drivers.
Id be embarrassed if I couldnt drive a manual.

bananabender says:

03:56pm | 21/08/12

Typical defensive driving courses are proven to ineffective and INCREASE accidents. The courses are far too short to to impart real skills and simply make drivers dangerously overconfident. It takes about 50 training hours (four weekends) to develop decent advanced driving skills.

M says:

04:17pm | 21/08/12

Do you have studies to back that up, banana bender?

M says:

12:09pm | 21/08/12

Ally, the testing requirements need to made harder anyway. Plenty of people who pass on the first go shouldn’t be on the roads.

We should also have mandatory retesting every couple of years, way before anyone hits 85.

Ally says:

12:55pm | 21/08/12

Very true.

I have an acquaintance that failed the automatic test three times. The AUTOMATIC test. She came close to losing that after just a few months. She definitely should not be on the road and now she’s automatically been given a manual license. It’s a scary thought.

M says:

12:57pm | 21/08/12

And, Ally, what makes you the resident expert on these things anyway? Your definately wrong on the instructor bit. I am a driving instructor and people all luv me.

Inky says:

01:39pm | 21/08/12

I’m inclined to agree on mandatory re-testing, regardless of age. I got my eyes checked last week and was informed I’d have failed the driving test. My eyes were fine 5 years ago. And i’m still in my early 20s.

Mandatory renewals every 5 years.

M says:

01:55pm | 21/08/12

Colin? Is that you?

colin says:

03:01pm | 21/08/12

@M says: 01:55pm | 21/08/12

“Colin? Is that you?”

Yes, this is me. What do you want?

Admiral Ackbar says:

03:19pm | 21/08/12

I doubt it’s colin M, seems he’s having the same problem. Luckily this doppelganger is sufficiently lacking in mental capacity for the rest of us to be able to tell the difference between himself and the real people.

M says:

04:03pm | 21/08/12

@ Admiral, the dopple ganger has made some comments that show it has about the same IQ as colllin, I assumed they were one and the same.

Unless its an elaborate ruse…

M says:

12:19pm | 21/08/12

I can’t agree with that, because that argument comes from motorcyclists all the time. Not everyone wants to drive a truck or ride a motorcycle. If the government was serious about road safety they’d have an education campaign rather than constant propaganda.

By the by, speed doesn’t kill. Millions of Germans prove this each year.

colin says:

01:10pm | 21/08/12

@Hamlyn 11:43am | 21/08/12

Big trucks ARE a pain!

They destroy the roads, they use squillions of litres of fuel, and they KILL almost everyone when they hit a car. They are dangerous, wasteful, dangerous, pointless, dangerous pieces of garbage that should be removed from our roads.

I mean to say, not only do they kill almost everyone they run into, but if my car took two lanes to turn a corner, the police would put it off the road! Who on earth thought that mixing idiotically large pieces of machinery with cars on the same road was actually a good idea..?

Bring back trains and SMALL trucks, and go tell the trucking magnates to sod themselves for perpetuating the myth that trucks are essential just so they can add further million$ to their already over-stuffed bank accounts.

Hamlyn says:

01:28pm | 21/08/12

What I mean is that every year people are killed in accidents involving trucks, usually not the trucks fault. People just need to be aware that taking their chances with a truck is suicide. Its generally not the truckie that comes off second best. We all make mistakes we arent even aware of, but by seeing it from another perspective might make people much more careful.
I have never ever pulled out in front of a motorbike either. I think because my brothers ride and I had it drummed into me to look for bikes when I was on my learners.
Sometimes its not all about me me me. You have to learn to share the roads.

hermano says:

01:48pm | 21/08/12

Actually, speed does kill.  I reckon if we all drove around in cars speed limited to 20kmh the death toll would plummet.  But that would be inconvenient, and what’s a few deaths for the convenience of being able to drive 1500 metres to the shops?
Also the death toll per capita in Germany isn’t much lower than Australia and is actually HIGHER per number of kms driven.  So yeh, how’s that stack up with your speed don’t kill mantra?
Figures with links to sources here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate

PsychoHyena says:

01:57pm | 21/08/12

@Hamlyn, that’s fine, but my main issue is with truck drivers that ride right behind you making it unsafe to slow down while on highways. Truck drivers can be as stupid as drivers of other vehicles.

Oh and regarding the overtaking and then getting stuck with a red light… ever think that maybe the motorist didn’t realise the lights were going to change? I hate truck drivers that overtake you at the bottom of a hill that forces them to slow from 100 to 60.

We all need to be aware, truck drivers, car drivers, motorcyclists, bicyclists. Most idiots I’ve experience have been full licence drivers who are in their late 30s+ who have no idea of how the road rules have changed since they passed their tests.

M says:

02:16pm | 21/08/12

Lack of skills and knowledge kill mate, not speed. I think you’ll find that the germans have to deal with more icy winters than we do, so you’re not comparing apples with oranges.

M says:

02:24pm | 21/08/12

“...Also the death toll per capita in Germany isn’t much lower than Australia and is actually HIGHER per number of kms driven….”

Yeah, yeah. Sorry, I don’t read wikapedia it has too many right-wing editors for a start. Show me a source that isnt so biased.

PeterM says:

02:36pm | 21/08/12

@Colin - You have a habit of making a humble turnip look like a genius.  You have obviously no idea about logistics, transport or trains, at least the logic train.  Road transport is vital to supply you with the things you want on the shelf and in your home.  Try and do without it, I dare you.

@hermano - No, speed doesn’t kill its what you hit and how fast you decelerate that determines the outcome.  The best road users avoid hitting things, ie. collision avoidance.  Ever heard the phrase, ‘Prevention is better than cure.’?

M says:

03:04pm | 21/08/12

@ Collin,

Bazza has to move 20tonnes of dirt. Would it be better to use 10 little two tonne trucks or one big trucK? Which method will use the least fuel and cause the least amount of damage to the roads?

Shazza has to get 40 tonnes of mung beans from her farm in victoria to the farmers market in Sydney. Should she use 20 little 2 tonne trucks to ferry the cargo to the nearest train terminal, use another 20 2 tonne trucks to move the cargo from the next train terminal to the markets and pass all the increased cost on to her customers, or should she just whack the whole thing onto one semi and be done with it?

Dazza needs to move a 50 tonne piece of mining equipment from the port in newcastle to the mine in cessknock. Should he break the machine up into smaller pieces for lots of little trucks to ferry over or should he just use one big semi?

Max Power says:

03:19pm | 21/08/12

Speed doesn’t kill, it is the sudden stop.

hermano says:

03:19pm | 21/08/12

M: As stated, the Wikipedia article has links to sources.  No chance of you being misled by confusing facts and figures.
I’m not against increased driver training at all, in fact I’m highly in favour of it.  Licences are way too easy to get, and way too hard to be revoked.  People need to learn that they’re driving around in 2 tonnes of steel that has the potential to kill.  And that potential is too often sadly realised.
And M: you were the ones that brought up zee Germans, not me.  Stats is stats, more Germans die per hours driven than Aussies: sure they’ve got snow, but we’ve got 200km+ dead flat straight roads.  What’s your point?

Hamlyn says:

03:21pm | 21/08/12

@PsychoHyena, I get what your saying, There are certainly idiots driving all kinds of vehicles. With regards to the red lights, I mean that before a light goes red it goes amber. The truckie decides whether he can stop in time as it takes so many metres (I dont know how many) to stop a truck.
He begins to stop and all of a sudden a car whips in front and brakes heavily so that they can take off from the lights first. This takes away the however many metres of stopping distance the truckie has. This happened at probably every third or fourth set of lights on the trip I went on.
So far as tailgating on highways you have to be aware that trucks are speed limited (yes there are cowboys who tamper with them, but certainly not the one I was with). This makes it very hard for the truckie to keep his timeframes when cars sit on 90 to 95kms/hr as the truck cant overtake or it would take half an hour to get past at 100km/hr!!
My point is that if everyone got to experience what truckies do we might be a bit more aware of why they do certain things and could do our part to avoid accidents. I was surprised how many people in cars drive with there iphone on their lap texting in peak traffic. Its amazing what you can see from a truck.
Not being a truckie myself this was a very eye opening experience which I think would benefit a lot of people.

M says:

04:00pm | 21/08/12

Real M here

<M: As stated, the Wikipedia article has links to sources.  No chance of you being misled by confusing facts and figures.>

I didn’t read it in the first place, and not because of any right wing bias in wikipedia, but because you cannot directly compare german crash rates to australian ones because of the European winter. Here we only get a bit of snow and ice in a few mountainous regions, there the entire country is covered for a few months.

<I’m not against increased driver training at all, in fact I’m highly in favour of it.  Licences are way too easy to get, and way too hard to be revoked.  People need to learn that they’re driving around in 2 tonnes of steel that has the potential to kill.  And that potential is too often sadly realised.>

Agreed.

<And M: you were the ones that brought up zee Germans, not me.  Stats is stats, more Germans die per hours driven than Aussies: sure they’ve got snow, but we’ve got 200km+ dead flat straight roads.  What’s your point? >

That if the germans can have higher limits, so can we. Also, higher limits are actually safer. Astounding, I know. Proof if this is right here in this country, the fatality rate in the northern territory sky rocketed when they abolished the open limit highways and put in a blanket 130km/h limit. Turns out fatiigue is a bigger killer than speed is.

Who knew?

colin says:

04:05pm | 21/08/12

@PeterM 02:36pm | 21/08/12

...“Road transport is vital to supply you with the things you want on the shelf and in your home.  Try and do without it, I dare you….”

Yawn. Yet another “Trucks are vital to this country” nonsense.

Big, lumbering, road-destroying leviathans driven by knuckle-dragging speed demons…Trains reinstated to criss-cross the continent like they used to, followed by a plethora of small vans and train-direct-to-warehouse opeartions would solve this.

The only reason they don’t? Labour costs. Once, when people were all gainfully employed, we used to have people doing all these things. Now, under the guise of “convenience” and “Money saving” we have the big trucking companies lying to us about such things when - in all complete reality - it is just about saving money by not paying for so much labour, and putting squillions or in their pockets…

Trucks are dangerous, wasteful, stupid pieces of junk that are just one more part that idiotic BIG machinery plays in destroying the environment

bananabender says:

04:24pm | 21/08/12

A 40 tonne truck causes 10,000x as much damage and is 7x as likely to be involved in a fatal accident as a car.
The Australian trucking industry is effectively subsidied about $10billion per year (around $500,000 per truck!). Without these massive and unfair subsidies there would be no trucking industry.

Japan manages quite well without heavy trucks on the highways.

M says:

04:53pm | 21/08/12

Once again, ideaology trumps thinking! Nice work colin.

M says:

04:54pm | 21/08/12

Bananabender, dunno if you’ve noticed, but japan is a series of tiny islands.

bananabender says:

06:24pm | 21/08/12

@M

The main islands of Japa are all interconnected by tunnels. The north-south distance is over 2200km - further than the distance between Adelaide and Brisbane.

The Japanse don’t like trucks because they are inefficient, dangerous and expensive.

M says:

04:07pm | 21/08/12

Nailed it rebecca.

M says:

02:41pm | 21/08/12

It’s a risk most people are willing to take for increased mobility. Life is full of risks.

hermano says:

03:34pm | 21/08/12

Yeh, true.  It’s also a risk that someone will mount the kerb as I’m walking past and kill me.  So lets improve driver training and make it harder to get and keep a licence.

M says:

03:55pm | 21/08/12

I agree, and when we’ve improved the standard of training then we can raise speed limits, yes?

M says:

03:41pm | 21/08/12

Sports cars are the safest cars on the road.

M says:

04:17pm | 21/08/12

“Sports cars are the safest cars on the road.”

i didn’t say that. I think cars are wrekking the evironment

M says:

04:11pm | 21/08/12

Add mirrors to that list. I reckon most people think they’re only for decoration these days.