Is Turnbull going “off-line”?

alan cotterell says:

09:26am | 28/06/09

Here’s a question for you - if you (an ALP supporter) were working in a government department and knew the guy next to you was forwarding confidential information to the Liberal Party politicians, which would damage the ALP, wouldn’t you feed the creep something to run with? Godwin Grech, Turnbull and Hockey have all shot themselves in the foot, and that outcome would have been predictable!

Michael says:

04:39pm | 27/06/09

Who cares if Turnbull spoke to Gretch, or if Gretch spoke to Turnbull and who leaked what to whom and when????? Doesn’t change the fact that everyone seems to forget. (well done Swan and Rudd). We want to know if Swan gave favourable treatment to Grant (Rudds Mate). Rudd and Swan are hiding something and it’s quite obvious. Why waste AFP resources on chasing down an email??? So what if it’s fake???? Who cares who sent who composed it???? Does this deserve AFP attention?? I don’t think so. Turnbull hasn’t lied, he was fed incorrect information, but he didn’t lie. I think we should get back to Swan and Rudd, thats the important issue which the Governmnent is doing its best to distract our attention away from. Doesn’t anyone wonder what they have to hide and what they are afraid of?

pixi says:

01:30pm | 26/06/09

who is this ernie jenkins mentioned on clarke and dawe and by kerry obrien? i looked up the name and i get some telecommunications guy…..

weird eh? can anyone shed some light??

Fred Longbottom says:

11:49am | 26/06/09

The Government Online Directory (http://www.gold.gov.au) lists Mr Grech as a Principal Adviser in the Corporations and Financial Services Division of the Treasury. Among other things, that Division provides advice to the Government on the regulation of financial markets. Since late last year the Government has taken a number of extraordinary steps relating to the stability of financial markets, the guaranteeing of bank deposits, banning short selling, etc. Advance knowledge of the scope and timing of those and other measures would have given very significant financial advantages to anyone unscrupulous enough to use it.  I expect that the AFP now knows from Mr Grech what information was provided, to whom and when. If politicians (other than relevant Ministers) obtained that kind of commercially sensitive information, the AFP will, I think, be interested in what ‘non-political’ uses might have been made of it and who else subsequently got the information. They might need to look at a large volume of share transactions, asset movements and other matters. That will take some time and the AFP will need cooperation from everyone involved. Any suggestion that parliamentary privilege may be used to hinder an investigation into the wider ramifications of Mr Grech’s conduct would be reprehensible. Unlike a judicial enquiry, a police investigation is, from the politicians’ point of view, a potential disaster. Instead of precise terms of reference, interminable hearings taken up with legal arguments, evidence given in secret, etc, the AFP officers will direct their enquiries at whatever indicates the possibility of criminal behaviour. The AFP will conduct its enquiries objectively, independently and competently. I wish them all the best.

Michael says:

04:37pm | 24/06/09

I thought it was very interesting that Turnbull personally called Godwin Grech at home the other morning. Turnbull even said so in a radio interview. Why would he do that if he doesn’t already have a personal relationship with him… Perhaps Godwin has been a source for Malcolm for some times… There is a lot more in this story Malcolm’s corporate business style doesn’t fit parliament…..

P says:

04:15pm | 24/06/09

taiabada, If Rudd was making noises that the e-mail was fake on Tuesday you would think that Turnbull would then make damn sure that the e-mail was the real deal.

Why didn’t he?

Bob says:

04:06pm | 24/06/09

To Taiabada

Be careful. I think who knew what and when is a quite different question.

What I pointed out was that anyone other than the author of the “fake” email who knew the wording including the top and tail part, prior to 17th April has reasonable grounds to believe that the “fake” email was in fact succesfully wiped from the system. Unfortunately for Mr Grech if he is the only person in this position this knowledge won’t come as much comfort.

taiabada says:

03:47pm | 24/06/09

Thanks Bob.    That has at least confirmed my thought that the email was known to be a fake by the PM prior to last Friday.  He began calling it a fake, and accusing Malcolm Turnbull, well before - I think on Tuesday.  If so there is certainly, in my opinion, some reason to think the present attack on Turnbull comes from some form of fiddling by the governement.  Bring on the Judicial Inquiry!

Bob says:

03:17pm | 24/06/09

To Taiabada

Read “Genuine article’s top and tail akin to fake” by Sid Maher in the Australian June 23rd.

I understand the email federal police identified as a fake was purported to have been sent by Dr Charlton on 19th February.

I understand it reads: “Hi Godwin, the PM has asked if the car dealer financing vehicle is available to assist a Queensland dealership, John Grant Motors, who seems to be having trouble getting finance. If you can follow up on this asap that would be very useful. Happy to discuss. A.”

Genuine email from Charlton to Grech containing same top and tail.was dated April 17th according to Maher.

It reads. “Hi Godwin, the PM asked this morning for an update on how the car dealer financing vehicle is operating ...”
It ended: “Happy to discuss.” and was signed off “A”.

I hardly think that if Grech or anyone else was going to “concoct” a fake email dated February prior to 17th April he would have come up with the same wording as Charlton was to use at a later date.

So a key question is the date on which the wording of the “fake” email became known to anyone other than its author.

By that we can conclude with a reasonable level of confidence that if anyone other than the author was aware of the wording of the “fake: email prior to 17th April then the “fake” email is not “fake” but has been successfully purged from the system.

In fact if anyone wanted to imply that the only explanation for any remaining hard copies of an email that had been successfully wiped from the system had been cut and pasted from genuine emails ie: a “fake” they might go to the trouble of sending a new email with the same top and tail. I imagine thats what 007 would do.

Since this couldn’t predate the original it would have to be at a later date. Which would date any “damage control” on or about 17th April I guess.

So. Is there anyone out there who knew the wording prior to the 17th April?????

Shaun Newman says:

02:37pm | 24/06/09

frank, turn it up

frank says:

01:16pm | 24/06/09

poor Mr. Grech, This is how he should maintain:
He just pick-up some printed emails left un-attended on the printer
and/or fax machine, and then pass them on to Malcome Turnbull.

Who knows, Labor may set-up the trap (faked email) to catch the
culprits who have been leaking the Treasury information.
Mr. Grech just walked into the trap and took the bait.

This will relieve him (Mr. Grech) the charge of forgery,
and in doing so, shiift the blame to Labor for setting the
trap and faked email in the first place.

Matt says:

11:54am | 24/06/09

The OzCar program was all about propping up an inefficient industry.  If he was so wedding to the power of the market Grech should never have accepted the job of administering it.  If he’s used moral indignation as a rationale for leaking to the coalition then he deserves everything he gets. 

Turnbull has blundered.  He has never had the patients for a long battle, always preferring the aggressive options and moving on to something else if it doesn’t go his way.  Politics will be the same.  He doesn’t need the money and doesn’t like dwelling on failure.

Chris says:

11:50am | 24/06/09

@ Don W.

Libs “dishonest & untrustworthy” = the wilderness.

Were you overseas for the Howard years?

taiabada says:

11:48am | 24/06/09

Yes Peter! Maybe the ever devious and obfuscating Rudd did arrange to plant the email for his purposes.    Not very strange at all in his case!  That’s is why I would like to know the sending and receipt dates of the email!

csr says:

11:40am | 24/06/09

Gerry Sinclair, 
Accepting freebies from the electorate (even if they are 8 yo utes used in the electorate and not for personal use), is accepted by ALL pollies as long as they declare them, which in this instance Rudd did 2 years ago!
P (at 11.12am) has provided excellent answers to your other points!
Phil Mud (6.49am) very funny!!  Thanks for putting a smile on my dial.
Julie Coker-Godson (10.07pm)- Rudd promised no “night of the long knives” like Howard, but I would take a guess that there may have been rumours about Grech’s loyalty/trustworthiness and he may have been seen as too risky in the PM & C.  His job in Treasury would have been seen as a sideways move and less risky, but they never could have guessed how far some people are prepared to go….....

Don W says:

11:30am | 24/06/09

I feel Liberal party needs to be purged. I am a swinging voter. I fear the liberal will go into the political wilderness for decades by been branded dishonest and untrustworthy, unapproachable, arrogant to the ordinary person. How many Mr. Grech do the Liberals have bared in treasury? Whether it is true or not, I get feeling, that Mr. Grech was put in this position by the Liberal so they can control him and he would have a feeling of owing the liberals for his job. You could see it on his face. Ther was other thing he wanted to say, but he could not. I feel he will have a lot more to say.
I feel it will blow the Liberal party apart. If it could harm the Labour party it would have been bought out the other day. You can bet the Liberals have many more hidden Mr Grech.
Mr Grech is expendable and is going to be a sacrificial lamb. Just part of the rotten politics of the current Liberal core. I ask the Libera party Please offer us an alternative government with alterative policy not a vote between good and evil.

Peter says:

11:26am | 24/06/09

Got to love the conspiracy theories posted here. Labor planted the email? Yeah, sure, but your points deserve a reply Gerry Sinclair.

1. Rudd has openly declared the ute on his MP interests for years. John Grant received nothing, repeat, nothing. It was a very weak link for Turnbull to launch a tawdry attack in the first place.
2. Yes, there is an email, it’s a fake, der.
3. Swann did what, exactly? Again, John Grant received nothing.
4. The Senate hearing was indeed disgraceful. Sacrifical lamb Grech was pushed to appear by Lib senators hoping to up the ante against Rudd.
5. What planet are you from? It will take an ocean of Silvo to untarnish Turnbull and co.

Ikeshut says:

11:19am | 24/06/09

Gerry Sinclair’s twisted reasoning is just another attempted Liberal smokescreen.  Godwin Grech is a senior public servant.  Senior public servant do not squirm in Senate hearings like Grech did unless they have a good reason to be uncomfortable.  Telling the truth when you are blameless is not that hard.  The Liberals’ case against Swan puts a lot of emphasis on the fact that a fax about the car dealer Grant was sent to Swan’s home fax.  But who sent it ? - Grech did.  The fake e-mail was sent from Treasury to Grech’s home - where dies Grech work? - Treasury.  If it is true that Grech is Turnbull’s mole then it all starts to look a bit like the only evidence the Liberals have is that which they manufactured themselves.

Chris says:

11:14am | 24/06/09

Godwin Grech is surely the ultimate name for a Liberal mole.

Probably equal or better than Gordon Gecko.

Over the last few weeks, between Judy Moran and UteGate, reality TV surely has been superseded. TRUTH is greater than FICTION, and much better entertainment.

I’m absolutely Luvin’ it.

P says:

11:12am | 24/06/09

Gerry Sinclair ;

1. Are you suggesting that MP’s are not allowed to represent a local constituent if that constituent is a friend of the MP? 

2. Rudd was clearly referring to a legitimate e-mail sent from his office to Grech.

3. There is enough evidence that other car dealers got the same treatment. Plus, the faxes that were sent to Swan by Grech and according to Swan were not asked. Question, was Grech trying to set up the government? 1. by creating the fake e-mail and 2. by sending unsolicited faxes to Swan?

4. and 5. are just your opinion.

taiabada says:

10:59am | 24/06/09

I have been unable to find any information on when the “fake” email was sent and/or received - date and time.  Can anyone out there enlighten me

halberstram says:

10:47am | 24/06/09

News reports today describe Grech as describing himself as a “believer in the positive power of the market”. . . . Makes you wonder why he didn’t try his hand in the private sector if he was so enamoured with the market . . . .What is it about Liberals that they are so unwilling to practice what they preach ? . . . Just look at Costello’s failure to prove himslef in business for another example !

Peter says:

10:45am | 24/06/09

At the risk of continuing press headline laziness, shouldn’t this fiasco now be called Emailgate?

Gerry Sinclair says:

10:22am | 24/06/09

Bottom line is:-
1. Kevin Rudd did get a free ute & John Grant is a friend of his - which makes his political judgement open to question.
2. Kevin Rudd was wrong about the fact there was an email - there was.
Whether that email is indeed a forgery, whether it was conocted by someone in Treasury (to what end one wonders), whether it was indeed a Liberal Party/Treasury set up to implicate Kevin Rudd, or whether it was a brilliant piece of Treasury/Labor Party Machiavellanism to set up Malcolm Turnbull, we do not know yet.
3. The undisputed emails regarding Wayne Swan would be enough in previous days to force his standing down (remember the “Paddington Bear” episode? Lindy Chamberlain got convicted on less evidence!)
4. The behaviour in the Senate hearing was disgraceful being on par with the behaviour being exhibited by Bureaucrats in Iran right now.
5. The test now isnt just for the political players & the Treasury and their officials, all of whom, including Tanner have had their credibility tarnished, but also for the press to pursue these and others like the Head of Treasury, head of Ford Finance and give us the public some non political party spin feedback.
Watershed moment?

C says:

09:40am | 24/06/09

Is the Goblin Gretch, just a fall guy??, a known departmental mole being used as the sacrificial lamb for plausable deniability by the oppposition, hmmm said Dougal. It does make you wonder, dang I love a good conspiracy, this has been better than spooks.

Addevlin says:

09:30am | 24/06/09

I fail to see how the Libs are going to come out of this with their leader still in his job - Hockey may survive but Turnbull is finished.  Only an idiot with no judgement would use an email like this without verifying it first, esp. since Grech said in the senate hearings his recollection of that very email was vague and could be wrong.  And HELLO! – it was.  Imagine calling for the PM to resign over a fake email!  What a joke! Turnbull CAN NOT keep the leadership over this.  Anything he produces now in the parliament will be scoffed at - he really has destroyed his own leadership through his own reckless, premature actions and ego.  And I love watching it – it’s better than any Shakespearian tragedy!!!

TH says:

09:20am | 24/06/09

What a laugh! At the end of this Turnbull will retire from politics as the new generation Fraser that failed!

Grech should do more research into the APS code of conduct, because I think he may have breached it.

And all the while Costello knew this was coming and I bet he didn’t want to play any part in this mess or having to mop it up.

This just gets better and better

Jaynester says:

08:53am | 24/06/09

hong thach doan, perhaps Costello’s timing was perfect. My guess he figured what was going on and he may even perhaps be now waiting to step back in to take over leadership? Distance yourself from scandal and then step back in for leadership challenge? Someone is benefiting from the mole and someone is probably paying the mole. Who has that kind of money? The mole isn’t just working for his/her own gratification - someone (or more than one) is behind him and those persons must fall.

Ron says:

08:51am | 24/06/09

The classic sting, Grech was set up and so was the Opposition and they fell for it. Its called an investigation technique, say no more.

Ray says:

08:44am | 24/06/09

To the uninformed this has been going on in Canberra forever, whenever a public servant gets the shits misses promotion or has definite poliitical views, a number of them like to sell themselves with a view to a better career in a new government.  The truth be known Labor also has a large number of moles in its closet, it did under Howard and still does now.

iansand says:

08:38am | 24/06/09

If I leaked commercially sensitive data to my boss’ commercial rivals I would expect to be facing the sack if I were caught.  Mr Grech has decided to play a dangerous game.  Why should anyone have any sympathy for him?

halberstram says:

08:13am | 24/06/09

By encouraging Grech to continue leaking confidential data, Turnbull has probably cost him his job and maybe even a criminal charge.

This clearly gives us an insight into a man who sees other people as merely pawns to his boundless ambition.

Taking short-cuts may have suited the times as a Wall Street Investment Banker - and look where that attitude got the world ? - but in this case it makes Turnbull complicit in the fake email whther he knew it was a forgery or not !

hong thach doan says:

07:57am | 24/06/09

Costello must be kicking himself stupid. His sense of timing was terrible!!!

Phil Maguire says:

07:56am | 24/06/09

Now the truth emerges.

The AFP have been monitoring Treasury in search of a mole and watching Godwin Grech. That being so they possibly knew about the fake email in advance and that’s why Rudd was so cockily confident it was a fake.

There’s no doubt that if Grech has been working on behalf of The Opposition Turnbull has done his credibility some real damage. On the other hand if there’s no link between them he escapes.

Rudd too must now come clean and inform the Parliament how much he knew as the OzCar scandal unfolded.

There are still questions about the fake email. Was it a copy - perhaps a copy of an original used to entrap Grech and did Mr Rudd have prior knowledge of its existence?

If so it raises some serious questions about his honesty and integrity.  Were Labor Senators warned in advance that Grech’s testimony was likely to be false, if in fact it was.

If Grech truly faked an email in an to attempt to bring a Prime Minister down he’s got to be missing a few neurons.

Chris says:

07:19am | 24/06/09

The Liberals have compromised Grech to the point where he could face criminal charges. Not sure about the banking but Turnbull has definitely been outed as a smear merchant.

Phil Mud says:

06:49am | 24/06/09

I hope to all hopes that Julie Bishop becomes opposition leader- that would be hilarious- she’s a stupid chihuahua!

Marilyn says:

03:57am | 24/06/09

Well it started out a story about nothing but it is hilarious how Turnbull has flamed, burnt and fallen into the shit bucket all due to his own madness and arrogance.

Can’t stand the man.

Miller says:

01:15am | 24/06/09

If the best the Coalition could throw up on Lateline tonight was Hockey, he has done more damage, if thats possible than the situation was before he opened his smirking mouth. The forced half laughter, the refusal to answer questions, the we do not reveal our sorces nonsense, he may as well have named Grech and be done with it. There has been too much innuendo, half truths, false accusations, the rush from the House by almost the entire Opposition, when it was announced the Feds had found the phoney email, does Hockey not conclude the public are aware of these things. He treats us as fools, which is inbred in him from his former boss. perhaps he Turnbull, and some of his collegues should look at their future and see who the fools really are.

Matthew Frith says:

01:03am | 24/06/09

The Hockey interview on Lateline was just plain embarrassing. I’m still cringing.

He demanded that all journalists revela their sources.

Hockey has to go.

Chris says:

12:58am | 24/06/09

Anyone see Lateline tonight? The lights in the ABC studio at Parliament house must be very hot, (if you are reading you can use that if you want, but i want a credit) i am sure even when Joe has gone on one of his many flipouts I have never seen ‘real’ not fake sweat rolling down his lip. Became more apparent after Tony asked if he thought he had done anything illegal. And just think Turnball use to be called Spycatcher!!??

Luke says:

12:35am | 24/06/09

Yeah I’ve actually always thought the Libs were a pretty strong bunch. But I actually had a bit of a hunch that they were getting old at least 2-3 elections ago. Howard won back in 2001 on the back of the terrorism “fear factor”. Then the next election in 2004 he won on the back of the debt “fear factor”. While he can certainly claim responsibility for creating a free-market economy in this great nation, he can’t claim responsibility for the ebs and flows of the global financial markets of which we make up 2%. Sadly, most Australians swallow this crap about debt & interest rates being cause by a Government - give me a break.

So, that was what gave me a bad smell about them and ever since Turnbull got in somethings been different. For years the Labour Party in opposition looked like weak whingers. When K-Rudd came in he went on the offensive and stood up for his nation. That’s what won him the election. The libs aren’t whingers like the Labs were, but they are EXTREMELY negative. And it seems that in these latest events their own game has just gotten a little bit out of control.

Why did Peter Costello resign again?

Roger says:

11:34pm | 23/06/09

Turnbull will not be leader one fortnight from now.  Sloppy Joe is going down with him.  Who is left?  Julie B?  Hah!  Tony Abbott is left.  My god.  What has happened to the Liberal Party?

Katie says:

11:33pm | 23/06/09

I have been wondering whether Mr Grech was set up in all this but am now starting to question this view.  Not because of the AFP finding a faked email from the PMO but from the real emails about John Grant’s alleged “special treatment” (see http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/files/emails.pdf).  Question: Why were these emails photocopied and faxed on 11 June to person/persons unknown when everyone who needed to know about them were on the “to” list or “cc” list?  Question: Why were they photocopied and circulated via fax on 11 June when the Senate Hearing was on 19 June?  Any copy of the emails to the Senate Hearing would have been delivered on the day of the Hearing (or very close to the day) & would have gone by hand - either Secure bag or from the Treasury witnesses themselves.  So again, why the photocopies and fax copies?  Doesn’t look good to me!

Newcastle Lady says:

11:00pm | 23/06/09

This is a disgrace. I keep saying that because its the first thing that enters my mind. Seriously how can I with any morals vote Liberal? To me they seem like some whacked out bunch of 007 wannabe’s. You need to seriously think Mr Turnbull what average Aussies (voters) are thinking of all of this. Thanks for these great articles it gives Aussies a say

Julie Coker-Godson says:

10:07pm | 23/06/09

Yet another twist in the story; it boggles the mind to think what could happen next….Do we know why Grech was “punted” from PM&C?....anyone ......?

So What says:

10:03pm | 23/06/09

Looks like this time it’s Judas who’s going to be crucified

John says:

10:00pm | 23/06/09

Great story keep it up.  Nice to see some real journalism.
thankyou.

BV says:

09:48pm | 23/06/09

Wow. This could be an “interesting” development…

Islander says:

09:32pm | 23/06/09

Dead man walking

Katie says:

09:15pm | 23/06/09

Explosive stuff! 

Drilling down on this stuff really suggests confection.  I mean think about it.  If Mr Grech or anyone else has been siphoning Govt info to Turnbull or anyone else in the Coalition, it hasn’t exactly been damaging information, now has it?  I mean, look at the Libs woeful performance in Parliament so far.  And you’d think a Treasury insider could provide post Budget analysis that would cream the Govt if provided to the other side of politics.  What did we get instead?  Same old debt bus they were running before the Budget.  What a crock!

My theory is that if Grech is working for anybody, he’s working for the other side!

David Johannsen says:

09:13pm | 23/06/09

Oh dear. Turnbull will be gone before the end of the week. So will Hockey. The Liberals are really in the mire now.

Steve says:

08:57pm | 23/06/09

As utegate continues is appears that Godwin Grech may be Turnbull’s very own “deep haemorrhoide”