Is ideology threatening a crucial service in schools?

Dan says:

04:49am | 06/11/09

As long as chaplains of all religious persuasions are offered, and as long as they are optional, I have no problem with it. We shouldn’t assume that all students at public schools are Potestant, or even Christian. They could be Muslim or Jewish etc… Furthermore it should be completely optional, and there should be a secular alternative as well.

Isabel says:

07:28am | 06/11/09

Why not just a secular equivalent?

Liz says:

07:33am | 06/11/09

Perhaps a consultant of a non-religious persuasion would be in order.Kids these days always need a kindly ear and help in adjusting to life.

Paul says:

07:37am | 06/11/09

If God won’t help these kids maybe rely on economic rationalism and invest more in education, specialist education support and community services. Or just suspend their parents parenting payments? That’s Liberal policy right? Liberal ideology and the worship of hardhearted leaders (Howard) seems to have blinded you to the importance of ‘healthy communities’ investment.

Robina says:

08:11am | 06/11/09

When I was teaching in England we had “dinner ladies” who did much the same sort of thing. They were local mothers who came in at lunchtime and sat around in the playground chatting to the children. Children need to chat to somebody and their parents are often too busy.

DG says:

08:37am | 06/11/09

As an atheist I appreciate the calls for non-religious equivalent to the chaplain - however In my school days (not at a religious school) we had a chaplain and not once did the chaplain try to direct me towards his faith. In fact I don’t think he ever told me what denomination he was - I assume that he was a catholic, but I’m just guessing - nor did he ask me about my faith. I doubt he knew that I was an atheist - it simply didn’t come up.

To me that was the perfect school chaplain, he was always up for a chat while floating around the grounds. He seemed top have a knack for knowing when to join a group of students in conversation and when to move on. Whether this was his training or a natural ability I don’t know - I suspect a combination of both.

Either way he was an adult who took an interest in the issues that were affecting students - parents splitting up, bullying, lack of money etc. Most importantly he was an adult that took the time to look young people in the eye and say “it’s not your fault” and equally importantly, his faith did not define his relationship with the students.

Nick says:

08:55am | 06/11/09

How ironic that your heading suggests ideology is against this idea. It was Howard’s ideology that led to the program: a belief that the only ‘values’ that could be brought to schools, especially the public schools, were religious based. The chaplains in schools program is nothing more than brand placement!

Every public school in NSW has access to a counsellor (pitifully inadequate as the numbers are), and there is a year Advisor involved in pastoral care for each school year. Instead of pushing an ideological position, the money should have been and should now be invested in the provision of more counsellors, more training for teachers involved in personal development and pastoral care programs, more home school liaison officers and outreach programs assisting parents in area such as truancy, oppositional behaviour etc. In a secular society with a rich and diverse multicultural population there is a need for non doctrinal support and advice from people appropriately trained in counselling skills.

DG says:

09:13am | 06/11/09

Nick (09:55am | 06/11/09)

There is a certain stigma associated with seeing a counsellor that is not associated with having a chat to a chaplain. A counsellor provides counselling which to many implies that there is something wrong with the person being counselled. The same link is not apparent in relations to chaplains even though the functions may be exactly the same.

A “student liaison” may avoid the counselling stigma, but the title is linked to the staff of the school - the liaison needs to be clearly separate from the other staff to ensure that the students feel that they are ‘safe’ to talk to without any chance of work getting back to the other teachers.

Paul says:

09:53am | 06/11/09

@DG 955. Good hypothetical point but you fail to understand the deep dysfunction in many schools and some postcodes.  Stuart seems torn between what his heart is telling him and the head-in-the-sand 20th Century ideology that the Libs are feeding him. Stuart didn’t mention the age-old ideological war between the Teachers Union and the Liberals which is not in the national interest nor in the true interests of students. Chaplains cannot fix schools or suburbs that are busted. Chronic underfunding has logjammed the system taking out many friendly good-role-model teachers as the first line of student support& general welfare.

Shane From Melbourne says:

09:59am | 06/11/09

Isn’t the chaplain doing what the parents are supposed to be doing? Another way for parents to abdicate responsibility, I’d suggest.

Paul Horn says:

10:42am | 06/11/09

Well said Mr Robert. It is the stench of rampant secularism espoused by successive labour parties starting from the 70’s that has caused this breakdown to pervade every aspect of society and which our children are the prime victims! Socialist policy leads to nothing but misery, depair and poverty. Support for the chaplaincy is a fantastic start to redressing the pervasive sickness that the liberal countercultural elites in cahoots with their communist Government sympathisers have foisted upon a decaying society.

And anyway funding for schools has increased exponentially since the 70’s so the lie about funding, funding, funding is exactly that. Just look at the ABS statisitics you ignorants that keep pushing this degenerate and weary cart horse! I am sick and tired of hearing this tripe!

Paul says:

11:33am | 06/11/09

@paulhorn There is a bad joke amongst some teachers in regional areas that they are only educating kids to be able to ‘fill out a welfare form’. Why is it Liberal policy to NOT spend a few extra $1,000s of dollars on at-risk/learning difficulties students and job pathways etc rather than spending $500,000-plus for a lifetime of welfare/jail, whatever? What sort of wacky financial calculator is your ideology/religon using to loudly justify a lifetime of total government dependence? Why do you then unquestioningly, and blindly support Liberal Party Communist Policies? Skepticism wasn’t taught at your school was it?

Bill Kuyper says:

12:43pm | 06/11/09

Chaplains have been an overwhelming influence for good in schools all over Australia addressing the sad epedimic of hopelessness amongst our young. While it is well known that the guidelines do not allow proselytising (and this is appropriate) it would be a shame if political correctness expunged their influence from our schools simply because they excercised their role motivated by their Christian faith.

Nicko says:

12:47pm | 06/11/09

At I public high school here in Canberra I heard that 50% of girls in that school were self-harming. We need support from all sides in schools - counsellors, parents, volunteers, and chaplains. I have not heard a bad report about a chaplain in a school yet, and until the principals say they want them out I think the Rudd government has no option but to continue funding.

Fi says:

01:33pm | 06/11/09

This is a great article. In recent years of involvement as a volunteer with high school students, I saw many young people positively impacted by the work of both chaplains and volunteer church workers in public schools. Never once did I see a teen forcibly converted by some religious zealot. They were exposed to the belief systems of Christianity, of course - as a chaplain is necessarily motivated by his or her beliefs that every child is unique and given purpose and meaning by God. Many local public schools, in seeing the positive impact of voluntary-participation church programmes in other schools, vocalised their desire to see such programmes implemented in their own schools. All the anti-religion fearmongers need to find some more important social issues - how about all the violence and crime out there? And on that topic, isn’t it remotely possible that teaching a young person about God, meaning, purpose, ethics and self-worth may actually help that person avoid succumbing to the darker options in life, like drugs, criminal behaviour, self-destructive patterns, etc.?

Nevs says:

01:40pm | 06/11/09

There should certainly be someone fulfilling the counselling and support role for school children, but I have two major problems with a chaplaincy program.  First, how can choosing the person in a manner that discriminates against all but religious applicants be justified (or legal, for that matter)?  Secondly, imagine for a second that instead of representing a religion, the chaplains represented a fast food franchise (yes, it sounds ridiculous, that’s the point of a hypothetical situation), I am sure there would be enormous outcry that children were being exposed to subtle marketing ploys when at their most vulnerable.  To break out of my hypothetical, religious organisations don’t want us to buy their food, they want our unquestioning adherence to their tenets and way of life.  The exclusivity given to the religious is where I have a problem with this.  If there were a mix of qualified counsellors from secular and religious backgrounds, and no group could identify themselves that would be fine.  They would just be people helping kids, and that would actually be much better than fine.

Please, make the small change that anyone well qualified to help is included in the program.

Peter says:

01:40pm | 06/11/09

Chaplaincy has been a sucessful program even a lifesaver for some lets get behind it. We need more programs and workers like this.

Nick says:

01:46pm | 06/11/09

...They were exposed to the belief systems of Christianity, of course - as a chaplain is necessarily motivated by his or her beliefs that every child is unique and given purpose and meaning by God…

...isn’t it remotely possible that teaching a young person about God, meaning, purpose…

Fi, you’ve said it all. This is exactly why pastoral support in public schools should be secular and delivered by properly trained psychologists, counsellors or teachers. You have articulated what I mean by brand placement exactly and revealed the real reason chaplains and other youth workers of Christian persuasion want to work in our schools.

Young people can be given support, helped to find meaning, purpose, ethics and self-worth without some imaginary friend in the sky or medieval mysticism. Those qualities are not the sole province of the religious as you (and John Howard) seem to think.

Jane Davies says:

01:55pm | 06/11/09

Chaplains do a vital role in schools - and as Stuart has said, the research backs this up. Having people motivated by values such as love and compassion working in schools and helping our kids is a wonderful service and we really need to this funding continue - and better still grow. Kids have to cope with so much these days, let’s do all we can to assist them.

Troy says:

02:02pm | 06/11/09

From my own experiences of working in schools both as a teacher and a volunteer, I can say that chaplains make a huge difference in the schools that they are in. It would be very dissappointing to see their funding discontinued.

David says:

10:51am | 07/11/09

Keep chaplains in schools, I say as an atheist. They are a great person to have around, because they feel more like a good bloke or lady to chat to rather than an authority to only draw specialist help from. That’s all most school students need. No-one wants counsellors and psychologists pushing their neediness to work with student’s neediness. If religious differences are a problem, bring in members of other faiths a day a week or something similar. Provide access, don’t shove them in kid’s faces.

Lisa says:

03:02pm | 07/11/09

The cold secularity of the public system is the reason why I find, to my total surprise, that I have actually enrolled my child in the kindergarten programme of the local Catholic school.

David Everard says:

04:08pm | 07/11/09

It would be a great shame to withdraw the support proveded by chaplains so well in our high schools over the past few years .  From the statistical analysis provided in Stuart Roberts’ article, the worth of the role, and how they have been performing it, is self evident. 
Providing a friendly welcoming adult face, and the implications of availabiltiy to discuss lifes hassles, at the student’s time of choice, is such an important thing for a teenager.  It is often so difficult for them to talk with their parents.  Peers do not always give the most prudent advice.

Andrew Hazelton says:

11:00pm | 07/11/09

Without funding from the government the chaplaincy system will cease – after all chaplain cannot live on nothing – and with it many children will fill through the gaps and be lost.
From an economic and social point of view chaplains are a positive mental health measure saving the government millions future treatment costs
From a community point of view chaplains are aiding the in the health and wellbeing of the community’s children and future parents
“Ahh, but what about the issue of their Christian background?” A few sceptics say. It seems those who question this all belong to the party of the overly politicly correct and not from the ethnic and religious minorities they claim to represent.
The chaplains ideological Christian background is his or hers driving force to give compassions and service to others. They are counselling not preaching and the Christian tenet of helping others can scarcely be a negative. It is something that goes across every nationality and faith and that people of every cultural background can appreciate. In fact I have never heard a Muslim or a Hindu complain about chaplains –only those from the far left who are so afraid of offending the few they would deny the vast majority of desperately needed services.
The government needs to take a hard look at its choices and its reasons behind them. It should look at the needs of the community and not be hijacked by a few intolerant at the expense of millions of needy children.

Sue-anne says:

11:05pm | 07/11/09

As a Year 12 student who attends a school without a chaplain, I feel that they are not needed.  At my school we have two very excellent councilors and they manage to do everything that a chaplain could do and more.  Being psychological professionals, they know just how to be a comforting shoulder, how not to preach and how to deal with teenage issues.

Watto says:

04:52pm | 08/11/09

Some good points above. It still appears schizophrenic Liberal ideology of caring for students welfare during tough life moments, in the context of a rich countries heartless leave-some-kids-behind policy. Perhaps if you spent less money on pointless wars there would be ample money for a proper education system - and student welfare. Liberals playing politics with kid-footballs again?

Ken Dev says:

11:14pm | 12/11/09

Hooray for Chaplains,

They’ve been well received in WA state schools and it would be most wasteful to cut back on this program after it’s rapid expansion in recent years. With support from local churches and communities, chaplains make a genuine contribution to personal growth among young people and children as well as building social cohesian in the wider school community. Pastoral care is the primary focus, and people who fear inappropriate pressure towards religion or denominational allegiances can be reassured that there are careful guidelines in place to avoid that happening.

Nicola says:

11:36pm | 12/11/09

There are a lot of misconceptions surrounding chaplaincy.  Chaplains support, not JUST the student, but the teachers, parents and volunteers (eg. tuckshop ladies) in the school environment.  Many chaplains are well qualified, holding various diploma’s and degrees (some even with Masters qualifications) and they do what they do for very low wages (probably motivated by their Christian charity).  I doubt a professional counsellor would work for what chaplains are paid!

I have seen several chaplains at work, and they chat, comfort, encourage and nurture struggling kids, run programs, sports sessions, organise fundraising, and the list goes on…  Chaplaincy is two days a week going on fulltime.  I have seen chaplaincy services attract muslim students, just because the chaplain is such an awesome person who the kids feel safe with.  Dan (and other secularists), you say that there should be a secular alternative to chaplains - there are.  They are called Guidance Officers, school counsellors, teachers, admin staff and other parents.  As a parent, I know that kids often won’t listen to what you tell them, but they will willingly accept the same thing from a trusted adult (they AREN’T related to).  Chaplains put another trusted adult into the schools to provide ethical direction for the school community. 

Religious or not, they are a valued and vital part of the school community and the Rudd government may have to deal with an electoral backlash if they cut Chaplaincy funding.

Phil says:

01:21pm | 14/11/09

Non-religious chaplains are allowed presently to be chaplains, so if non-religious ones want to get involved, what’s stopping them? It’s just that this is something which religious people have already been doing for a long time, so it has been easier for them to run with it. Furthermore, chaplains are not allowed to push their religious agenda- they can’t even teach RE. Finally, those who want to remove religion of course are just substituting their religious viewpoint for the religious viewpoint they want removed.

brad j says:

10:14pm | 14/11/09

This program was just part of Howard’s evil agenda to take tax money from everyone and give it to religious fundamentalists to buy votes.

Welcome to Howard’s redneck Australia. Racist, radically religious and unethical.

Time to take the piggy snout out of the pork barrel people.

J says:

12:04pm | 16/02/11

There are a lot of comments here about how ‘important’ it is to have chaplains in our schools. How ‘vital’ and ‘needed’ they are.

I haven’t seen one comment that explains why only chaplains can or should do this, and why secular counsellors cannot or should not. ‘Preaching’ is against the guidelines, so why then must counsellors be religious? This is a requirement of the program as per current legislation.

I am not against taxpayer-funded support for our young people by trained professionals. I am against taxpayer-funded religious evangelism in public schools - it is tantamount to child abuse.