Imagine life without a toilet

AliceC says:

08:09am | 19/11/10

@Eric

‘Perhaps it’s because there is so much man-bashing involved’

Yes, it’s the man bashing that causes a disproporinate of women and children to die from lack of sanitation. The women and children must spend theirs days insulting men, not worrying about where their next meal comes from, or if they’ll live to see another day.

The author made a suggestion, and you can’t ignore statistics.

Happy Friday Eric!

marley says:

09:26am | 19/11/10

@Eric - well, I’m not going to argue about women, but children most definitely do bear a disproportionate burden when it comes to the impact of water-borne diseases.  Diarrhea and dysentery are still major killers of kids under the age of five in Africa.  That’s one of the reasons their infant mortality rates are so much higher than elsewhere - it’s not just malnutrition, measles and malaria.

And I really don’t think the author was trying to be divisive or trying to blame males for the issue - he was just trying to highlight a problem affecting, as he said, all people living in extreme poverty.

martinX says:

09:42am | 19/11/10

No, it is Australian man bashing, Alice. Take the statement:
“Given the scale of the crisis, and the potential benefits on offer, why has there been no great stink? Why are politicians still not talking about this crisis?”

What crisis? There is no crisis in Australia which is perhaps why no Australian politicians are talking about it. Are any female politicians talking about it? No? Maybe they’ve been bullied into submission by thos ‘orrible men they have to work with.

As for it being an overseas health crisis, there’s lots of them. Dracunculiasis, tsetse fly and on the list goes. Which one should a politician pick to talk about? If sanitation and sewerage is such an obvious one, why are people still crapping in rivers that they wash in and drink from?

When Smelbourne had no toilets and women and children were disproportionately shouldering the burden of poor sanitation, who stepped up and built the damn dunnies? Melbourne men. No World Bank to help, either.

“Perhaps one reason is that the burden of this crisis is borne so disproportionately by women and children and those in extreme poverty – the very people who have little or no voice when decisions are made.”

The author made a suggestion that insulted an Australian male audience. He is describing the problems and shortcomings of politicical and health systems and how they are run in countries we can’t influence.

If sub-Saharan women are sick of crapping just anywhere, they should pressure sub Saharan men to build a few thunderboxes. If the pressure for change isn’t coming from the people most effected, perhaps they just don’t give a sh…

Luce says:

10:35am | 19/11/10

Eric, you are painful.

KH says:

12:06pm | 19/11/10

Well gee - from what I have seen of the male anatomy, you only need toilets for one thing really….......and I’m pretty sure you don’t have monthly issues either.  Oh, and children also need more help in this area.  But as usual, you just see another excuse to spout your nonsense.

Eric says:

02:05pm | 19/11/10

@Marley - I’m willing to believe that children might be disproportionately affected. But to lump “women and children” together is to use misleading statistics. It would be just as true to say that “men and children” are disproportionately affected - since putting either adult gender together with children accounts for the great majority of the population!

Perhaps the author didn’t intend to insult men, but MartinX provides a very articulate description of exactly why the article is insulting. If he is trying to persuade men, he’s going about it the wrong way.

notSue says:

05:24pm | 20/11/10

The arrogance and bloody-mindedness of the likes of Eric and MartinX beggars belief. I am horrified that they can read an article about the suffering and indignity forced upon people with little or no available sanitation and somehow make it all about an insult to THEM!!, the all important Aussie male.. Their lack of compassion and total self -absorption is staggering, no matter what mealy-mouthed excuses they offer up when this blatant bullshit is pointed out to them.

“Perhaps one reason is that the burden of this crisis is borne so disproportionately by women and children and those in extreme poverty – the very people who have little or no voice when decisions are made.” Do they not understand what the author is saying here? He is saying that disenfranchised and oppressed women are unable to exert much political pressure, either at home nor globally. Glib remarks about how they should *make* their menfolk solve the problem shows their complete lack of understanding of the second class citizenship these women,(especially sub-Saharan women) and subsequently, their children, live with daily.
It’s not up to Australia alone to solve the problems of the Third World, but it is a humantarian priority that is ignored on the world stage. It is a disgrace in the 21st century that ” Some 1.2 billion people habitually defecate in the open – in fields, in gutters and in bushes”.  As a nurse I know the disease caused by faecal contamination of water supplies
is enough to signal the need for urgent action, let alone the dignity and safety issues.

I saw a piece recently about how an entrepreneur in Nigeria had begun a portable toilet manufacturing and distribution business in Lagos He was proud of being in “the shit business”. So, some countries are helping themselves. If our aid funds can help others do likewise, or help governments to pay for public sanitation programs it will be money well spent. I’m signing.

Aitch B says:

08:35am | 19/11/10

@acotrel

Idiot!!

With the exception of two mentions of Kevin Rudd this article is totally devoid of political connotation.

But noooo….... as per usual you see fit to carry on with your anti-Liberal crap in the hope of what? Converting conservatives from the dark side by opening the curtains and letting the sunshine in?

And don’t come back with that ‘you lost the election - get over it’ garbage as you usually do. This article has nothing to do with politics, elections or anything remotely connected!!

Ella says:

09:47am | 19/11/10

I’m not sure about the fertiliser option, you can only use poo as fertiliser from animals that are vegetarian, something about levels of faecal bacteria being different. Sorry it’s a little vague but I got that from my Grandad, who had a massive veggie garden, when I was a kid and I asked him why he would get so mad about dogs and cats going in the garden when he was quite happy to spread horse manure around. 

Agree with reusing the rest of it though, and maybe it could be used as fertiliser on stuff not for consumption

Ricky Bobby says:

02:44pm | 19/11/10

Ella, human waste is used in *Australia* as pasture fertiliser, to grow feed for cattle and sheep etc. But I sure as heck wouldn’t use it on anything I’d eat directly.

Gregg says:

12:22pm | 20/11/10

It’s all in the treatment plants Ella for sure Dog Poo takes quite a while to breakdown and you wouldn’t go strangling darkies on to your favourite garden or vegie bed and I’d be loathe to follow Jack Thompson’s piddling on the tomatoe bed gives a better crop.
You can actually buy composting kits for doggie poo too.
Elephant poo is by far the best though and it is so fibrous it can get recycled into making paper would you believe.
But ‘last time you went for a swim in the briney you probably gave little thought to all the fish poos and that massive cesspool come treatment pond you had a dip in.

But go down to the MMBW sewerage farms at Werribee or Carrum Downs out from Melbourne and you’ll see how well its done and it doesn’t even pong so much as it did a few decades back.
You’ll probably even find a few country golf clubs will spray some recycled water on to golf courses too.

Natasha says:

11:46am | 19/11/10

Actually, reductions in child mortality, like those brought about by sanitation, hygiene and clean water, reduce the birth rate.  It works every time.  People who have no access to the age pension need children to help look after them as they age.  Reducing the chance that they are all going to die before adulthood reduces the birth rate. 

But let’s stick to the point.  We’re talking about the deaths of innocent children.  We should care about that regardless of what we think of their fathers or their government.

By the way, people in the developed world suck up heaps more of the world’s resources than those in the poorest countries - that’s one reason why we have a responsibility to help.

Prince says:

11:53am | 19/11/10

This comment is soooooo un-PC but sooooo correct…..

Jordan Rastrick says:

01:44pm | 19/11/10

Right on, Prince.

Except, that, its not right, at all. Natasha’s response, that reduced child mortality leads to lower overall fertility, is overwhelmingly supported by the evidence.

There’s no need to be Politically Correct when it suffices to be Scientifically Correct, or to put it another way, Correct.

Ben Dickson says:

01:37am | 23/11/10

Mr. Tony, several 20th century dictators would be proud of the “green” idea of forced sterilization of brown people to keep them from having too many kids. Of course, they were wrong as are you.

As any educated person knows, birth rate is inversely proportional to child mortality and prosperity (which go hand in hand). Also, there IS NOT AND WILL NEVER BE A FOOD CRISIS DUE TO OVERPOPULATION. This Malthusian idioticy has to stop before someone in power takes “necessary actions”.  The amount of arable land on this planet is enough to support 20-30 billion people with modern farming techniques. Current predictions are that we are never going to exceed 10 billion.

Grow up. Stop “knowing” and actually learn.

marley says:

09:17am | 19/11/10

@Adam - actually, improved sanitation is one of many initiatives actively pursued by UNICEF, UNDP and a host of NGOs.  But it’s a bit more complex than just digging a pit, especially in densely populated areas.  There really need to be sewage systems to remove waste.  And of course there need to be water filtration systems for clean drinking water as well.

There are all sorts of projects underway to improve sanitation and water quality on a small, local scale, but ultimately major engineering projects are going to be called for.  And aid money is never going to be enough for that kind of long-term capital cost.  At some point, governments (I mean the responsible governments in Africa and Asia) are going to have to get their acts together and start investing in these kinds of things instead of buying guns or salting the money away in Swiss bank accounts.

Anna C says:

09:23am | 19/11/10

I have to agree with you. Why is it our responsiblity to provide toilets to Africa? Every day we are being guilted by one person or another about how it is our responsibility to fix every problem in the world. Australians are very generous people and already contribute more than enough per capita. The real issue which is not being addressed by the world community is the corruption that is rife in Africa. Corrupt governments siphon off donor money for their own evil purposes. I feel like I have donor fatigue. Enough of the guilt tripping!!!

Anna C says:

09:23am | 19/11/10

I have to agree with you. Why is it our responsiblity to provide toilets to Africa? Every day we are being guilted by one person or another about how it is our responsibility to fix every problem in the world. Australians are very generous people and already contribute more than enough per capita. The real issue which is not being addressed by the world community is the corruption that is rife in Africa. Corrupt governments siphon off donor money for their own evil purposes. I feel like I have donor fatigue. Enough of the guilt tripping!!!

Against the Man says:

12:19pm | 19/11/10

That would be bliss

marley says:

12:37pm | 19/11/10

People may not be “designed to live in heavily populated cities” but they’ve been doing so since well before the days of the World Bank.  The oldest known cities go back something like 6000 years.  Thebes was a city in 3200 BC.  Athens dates from 1400 BC. People like living in cities.  And they have developed systems for making cities habitable. The Romans had sewers for heaven’s sakes. And public toilets. 

Whatever evils the World Bank may or may not be responsible for, it isn’t forcing people to live in cities, or forcing population growth to outstrip the capacity of the river systems to deal with it.  If you think a billion Indians can rely on river systems naturally taking care of sanitary issues, I can only say you’ve never been to India.

So yes, with or without corporate exploitation, we still need toilets, and sewers, and clean water. Because people are going to continue to choose to live in cities.

Natasha says:

01:19pm | 19/11/10

If using simple solutions to save lives is not a good use of charitable money, I don’t know what is.

The amount of money that Australians, per capita, contribute to solving the problems of poverty is very small (including through taxes that pay for our overseas aid program) and especially compared to other government expenditure.  Look it up.  Work it out.  We can afford to do more and we should.

Ryan says:

02:44pm | 19/11/10

@ZB: having grown up in Africa I can tell you that Africans enjoyed much better sanitation and services in the past before their rise to so-called “freedom from oppression”. Now its time to learn how to do it for themselves and STOP giving money to them like a spoiled teenager.

marley says:

12:25pm | 19/11/10

The populations are growing in all the countries that have these problems.  If you have six or eight kids, some of them are bound to survive.  The point is that there are a lot of unnecessary illnesses and deaths because of poor sanitation.  Better sanitation would be a good start on the way to better health, and that in turn contributes to better economic development and, interestingly, to lower birth rates.

And there are one helluva lot of toilets in India.  The major cities are, after all, sewered.

Gregg says:

12:40pm | 20/11/10

@ Marley
There may be a helluva lot of toilets in India and so there ought to be for there are a helluva lot of people and the majority of cities are far from all sewered.
Have a read of http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aErNiP_V4RLc&refer=home and
http://sanitationupdates.wordpress.com/2010/11/07/india-land-of-many-cell-phones-fewer-toilets/ to update yourself.

Just recently watching a doco of an english chap spending a few days in the Mumbai slum area, toilets serving multiple families were just an outhouse off a public thoroughfare with a long drop into the local drain, com creek or whatever it was.

You will also find in India that the lowest of the castes are those who earn their living being the equivalent of our old nightwatchmen - in India, a woman will do the rounds of drop toilets clearing them out onto an opten tray type of thing to deposit them where it could be anybody’s guess.

Sure slums are being dozed to be replaced by apartments that slum dwellers cannot afford and so where next?, probably more slum, same problems.

St. Michael says:

01:31pm | 19/11/10

Best not to lift the lid on this discussion.

The Badger says:

01:37pm | 19/11/10

Apparently not james.

The unholy alliance between nationals and liberals that formed government in West Australia was based on the liberals supplying the nationals with in excess of 600 million dollars
This coming year, that is expected to be in excess of 900 million dollars.
and what did this coalition spend the money on see below.?

TALKING toilets have cost WA ratepayers almost $18 million in the past five years.
The lavish public loos costing $250,000 each and installed by councils across WA welcome users with a voice recording and play popular music while patrons do their business.
A total of 45 talking toilets had been built in the metropolitan area and 26 in regional WA.
At about $250,000 each, it means WA ratepayers have splashed out about $17.75 million on the lavish loos.

Cost benefit analysis anyone?

Jim says:

02:05pm | 19/11/10

Your eyes and ears must be painted on Weasel…either that or you are a donkey that gets apid to troll for the LUGs.

‘unholy alliance’ *cough* Greens *cough* Labor *cough* unions
‘600-900 million’ yeah right, and the nasty little Nationals kept that money and had a mighty big BBQ
‘public loos costing $250,000’ - unusable school canteens costing $2 million
‘cost benefit analysis’ - $17.75 million is 0.04% of $43 billion, something which you have been banging on about for months as not requiring one!

Yes, talking loos are a waste…a huge waste. But you are very good at making yourself look foolish.

The Badger says:

02:33pm | 19/11/10

Careful jim
You’ll blow a gasket

Jim says:

03:56pm | 19/11/10

I find it hard to imagine anyone blowing anything over you Weasel….

Reg says:

05:31pm | 20/11/10

Getting down and dirty, I have been in a poo processing plant and although the output is the sweetest smelling soil that can be crumbled in the hand and sniffed, it is still illegal to put it on your garden. I’d pay big money for a load of that shit but I can’t have it. Instead we grow mushrooms in horseshit and eat lots of wriggly things in our tasty cheese. Even vinegar is full of wrigglers, which is probably bad news for the vegans.

Charles Sainte Claire says:

05:50am | 20/11/10

Hilarious. You got my day off to a good start.

Greetings from the left coast of America.

Charles St. Claire

martinX says:

08:54am | 20/11/10

OMG You signed a petition! Well done, you keyboard warrior!

Reg says:

12:10pm | 21/11/10

There’ve been some dreadful accidents with the deep trenches needed to keep the required fall in sewerage pipes and I’d imagine in near sea level areas, it would be pretty difficult to maintain the fall rate required. Cave-ins were numerous with installers taking short-cuts in 80 foot deep pits. Then there are the developers. I know of two houses in our area where the developers took short-cuts on the installation and both those houses are prone to the most dreadful blow backs with shit all over the place. Needless to say, the owners try and keep it quiet until they sell and run. And we’re on a hill.