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ICB: Using homeopathy for radiation poisoning

Tory Shepherd

by Tory Shepherd

17 Mar 12:00pm

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Filed under: Alternative Medicine, Homeopathy, I Call Bullshit, Icb, Quackery, Radiation

125 comments

Welcome to a new regular Punch piece – I Call Bullshit!

(We’ve used this one before, but it really is supremely funny)

It’ll be dedicated to all the quackery, bullshenanigans and bogus science out there, everywhere.

Today’s was going to be all about psychics. Then I saw this piece in The Australian about a homeopathy clinic offering remedies for radiation sickness. They thoughtfully spruiked their wares at a time when so many people in Japan are scared out of their wits as the radiation threat worsens.

Homeopathy Plus is running a series on Remedies to Use in a Disaster. They say:

Floods, wars, famines, accidents, earthquakes.

Hardly a day goes by without a disaster making headlines somewhere in the world – they are an inescapable part of life and whether natural or manmade have always been with us…Homoeopathy is frontline medicine at its best. It has much to offer the victims of disaster and those who rush to their aid. It can be safely used before other medical help arrives.


The homeopaths explain their basic theory – that like treats like. You can read more about the theory behind homeopathy here. This particular clinic says they are only offering suggestions supported by science. These include giving patients, in an emergency: cadmium iodatum, cadmium sulphuricum, phosphorus, strontium carbonicum, and x-ray. Yes, x-ray.

Any of which may be used if under threat of radiation exposure at a potency of 30C – for an explanation of dilution and potency see here.

The substances homeopaths use are often poisonous. But luckily they dilute them so much through ‘potentisation’ that in many cases there’s not even a molecule of the original substance left.

It’s not clear how they would actually administer an x-ray homeopathically. Perhaps by shaking the machine often enough that it does not work at all, then placing the patient near it.

So what they are doing is unlikely to harm someone. The recommended potency of 30C means, according to Quackwatch, that:

The original substance has been diluted 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 times. Assuming that a cubic centimeter of water contains 15 drops, this number is greater than the number of drops of water that would fill a container more than 50 times the size of the Earth.

So where’s the danger? That people take this stuff seriously, fork out money for it, and might forgo an actual, proven remedy instead of something worthwhile.

This one’s almost too easy.

I Call Bullshit!
And dangerous bullshit at that.

Seen much quackery around lately? Share it here.

Most commented

431Australia, you have nothing to fear but fear itself
390There's no one Thomson won't burn to save his skin
336Animal experiments won't cure me from cancer
313Thomson didn't answer the question everyone is asking
266Who murdered the Arts degree?
246A big day for Thomson, who thus far is guilty of nothing...
231South Australia. It's the middle bottom bit.
231Craig Thomson speaks. Meanwhile, in Australia...

125 comments

Show oldest | newest first

    • john says:

      11:29am | 17/03/11

      The most memorable crack pot remedy for me was from Peter Brock to make his car all better,LOL from wiki [sic] Brock began to consult health practitioner Eric Dowker. He gave up alcohol and cigarettes, and became a vegan.[10] Brock began publicly supporting and, eventually, began to fit to all Holden Dealer Team specials a device called the “Energy Polariser” containing crystals and magnets that, it was claimed, improved the performance and handling of vehicles through “aligning the molecules”.[sic]

      I wonder if the car he crashed had crystals?

      Reply

    • PaulB says:

      03:00pm | 17/03/11

      Funny part is a fully Equipped “Polariser” Commodore is quite the novelty car collectors item, just because of what it is.

    • acotrel says:

      02:06am | 18/03/11

      What’s wrong with using homeopathy to combat radiation sickness?  It would probably be as effective as anything else to remove that speck of strontium90 which is attached to your bone, and continuously irradiating the marrow!

    • Nihilist #1 says:

      11:33am | 17/03/11

      Penn and Teller do it better…

      Reply

    • Nihilist #1 says:

      11:51am | 17/03/11

      By that I mean that Penn and Teller have a whole show called “Bullshit”.  Hey look; they even did one (way back in 2003) on Homeopathy.

      It was funny too…

    • Likes Joining Dots says:

      01:24pm | 17/03/11

      Nihilist #1

      Being the concerned global citizen I assume you to be, I hope you also signed the petition to ban dihydrogen monoxide? It’s an outrage that it’s still out there even now!

    • skepdad says:

      09:51pm | 17/03/11

      DHMO is deadly stuff.  Causes burns in gaseous form, is a known causative factor in thousands of deaths a year and - worst of all - is freely available without a license despite 86% of those surveyed supporting its banning. 

      Climate change and nukes have nothing on DHMO for pure deadliness.

    • acotrel says:

      10:33am | 18/03/11

      Dihydrogen monoxide - isn’t that what they use to stop nuclear reactors going critical?

    • Woodsy says:

      11:36am | 17/03/11

      The best one I’ve ever heard is someone saying “I don’t believe in using antibiotics, the body can heal itself and besides, they got by without them back in the olden days so why should we need them now?”.

      I take great pleasure in comparing the life expectancy of people from back then compared to now. Still doesn’t convince the half-wit.

      Reply

    • Faz says:

      11:52am | 17/03/11

      However Woodsy, there is another side to that as we are discovering now. The over use of antibiotics is becoming the cure that is worse than the disease.

      While I’m all for exposing scammers and rigorous, peer reviewed testing, western medicine tends to operate on the basis of a quote I came across years ago (not sure who said it):

      ‘We doctors act as if disease is caused by a lack of prescription drugs in the body’.

    • Tedd says:

      12:06pm | 17/03/11

      Antibiotics help the body, they are are not the sole answer.

      Many doctors do not prescribe unnecssarily.

    • Woodsy says:

      12:25pm | 17/03/11

      Agreed that the overuse of many medications - including antibiotics - is never a good thing, but it was more so the reason they gave that was the basis for my comment.
      Safe to say that their reasoning lacked merit.

    • david says:

      12:29pm | 17/03/11

      I’ve been to see a GP about a half dozen times over the past 10 years. No matter what is wrong (allergic reaction to bee sting, bad sprain) they give me a script for antibiotics.

      Now that is dangerous quackery.

    • Gregg says:

      12:47pm | 17/03/11

      @Woodsy
      All doctors may not oversubscribe and it may not be just overuse but it seems the way the system works in many hospitals is that a drug is used to fight whatever bacteria or virus and bacterias and viruses mutate into something else.

      And so the merry go round goes around, even if a bit shakily so and apparently the research time for finding the next ab is increasing exponentially.
      Maybe it’s just another of natures means to control our population growth.

    • Leigh says:

      04:56pm | 17/03/11

      Well given the floods and tsunami I think dihydrogen monoxide is causing its fair share of trouble

    • iansand says:

      05:00pm | 17/03/11

      Voltaire said something like medicine is the art of entertaining the patient while nature takes its course.

    • Robert Smissen, rural SA, God's own country says:

      10:15pm | 17/03/11

      We award these clowns “The Darwin Award” when they die from terminal stupidity

    • acotrel says:

      07:03am | 19/03/11

      @Faz The other day someone on this forum picked up the line thast ‘Rachel Carson was a misanthrop’.  They said that her campaign to ban DDT led to millions of deaths due to malaria.  They neglected to mention that every insect species which has been almost killed off by pesticides had bred to become resistant .  The survivors are strong.  And due to survival of the fittest that’s whose genes are represented in the next population explosion!  It’s the same with antibiotics and bacteria.  Of course the religous amongst us don’t BELIEVE in the effects of environment on populations.  They only think in one dimension - intelligent design?

    • Justin says:

      11:42am | 17/03/11

      Was turned onto this site this morning: http://www.whatstheharm.net

      They have decided to answer the question of, what’s the harm, and the answer of course, is that there are so many stupid people out there unable to apply any sort of critical thinking, absorbing all information presented to them as fact.

      Reply

    • stephen says:

      11:43am | 17/03/11

      And one of the ironies of these back-yarders is that when the inevitable happens - and they fail you, from negligence - they have neither the money, the reputation nor the credibility to suffer in the Courts for compensation.

      Reply

    • Elphaba says:

      11:51am | 17/03/11

      With the exception of the anti-vaccinations crowd, who are putting other innocent people at risk, and so long as homeopathic users do not force children or people unable to make decisions for themselves to use it, then those that believe in homeopathy deserve everything they get.  Including the mild case of death.  Go to a freakin’ doctor, you half-wits.

      For those spruiking the voodoo, they should be charged with misleading people in need.

      Reply

    • LauraBoBaura says:

      02:57pm | 17/03/11

      Yep I’m with you on that one. My mate used to work next door to a homeopathy ‘practice’ (or whatever it’s called) & she’d often see parents bringing their sick children, sometimes under a year old, to go and see the homeopath, who I’m sure would grind up some eye of newt or whatever & send them on their way. That type of shit is just plain wrong.
      Take your child to a doctor. They don’t need eye of newt. They need penicillin.

    • skepdad says:

      03:24pm | 17/03/11

      Except they *do* treat their sick kids with homeopathic products instead of medicine.  Homeopathy for malaria? Where’s the harm indeed.

      Tim Minchin has a great quote, something like: “There’s a word for alternative medicine that’s been proven by science to be effective.  It’s called medicine.”

    • Elphaba says:

      03:56pm | 17/03/11

      @Skepdad, yep, they do.  I try to be accepting of everyone’s life choices, so long as they don’t adversely affect others, and don’t break any laws.  However, if they are subjecting people who can’t speak up for themselves to it, that’s a problem.

      I guess I hope there are people out there smart enough to only do it on themselves.  But you’re probably right, and I’m being too optimistic. grin

    • acotrel: says:

      10:39am | 18/03/11

      The one I really like is ‘Biomagnetics’ the magnets in the bed underlay.  We have people like Dr Bruce Hocking slending their lives proving electromagnetic radiation doesn’t cause brain tumours.  And here’s the beautiful cure-all based on EMR!  Some of these people should be required to prove their claims

    • Jacqui says:

      11:52am | 17/03/11

      Your strong opinion does not match that of the many people who swear by homeopathic remedies. Your knowledge of vibrational medicine is sadly nil.
      Perhaps less one sided, opinonated reproting might be more healthful to all.
      I am not a homeopath but have a great deal of respect for their treatments. My advice is to read Gerber’s book titled Vibrational Medicine, you may gain an understanding.

      Reply

    • rockpig says:

      12:14pm | 17/03/11

      Methinks you need something else that vibrates, Jacqui!

    • Tedd says:

      12:15pm | 17/03/11

      Jacqui

      Anecdote and a collection of anecdotes do not provide supporting evidence.

      Tory did not refer to vibrational medicine.  there does not seem to be such a discipline.

    • KH says:

      12:35pm | 17/03/11

      Tedd - oh sure, haven’t you heard of a BVSc?  (Bachelor of Vibrational Science)

    • Tim the Toolman says:

      12:37pm | 17/03/11

      Go and watch Penn and Tellers episode on “Vibrational Medicine”.  Like everything else that dodges empiric tests, it’s absolute bollocks.  But, you won’t listen because you assume my mind is “closed”.  Ironic.

    • James In Footscray says:

      12:50pm | 17/03/11

      Hi Jacqui, I’m really curious what vibrational medicine might be, could you give us a brief explanation?

    • Tedd says:

      01:55pm | 17/03/11

      KH, yes there are some who have a BVSc where the V just stands for vibrational

    • HappyCynic says:

      03:07pm | 17/03/11

      A Bachelor of Vibrational Science?  Does that include a class that explores the different frequencies of vibrators to see which provides the most pleasure smile

    • Luke says:

      04:07pm | 17/03/11

      The plural of “anecdote” is not “data”.

    • skepdad says:

      04:36pm | 17/03/11

      “‘The remedies should lower your susceptibility; because what they do is they make it so your energy – your living energy – doesn’t have a kind of malaria-shaped hole in it.”

      People swear by power balance bands, voodoo and the healing powers of crystals too Jacqui.  You can believe them, or you can believe the countless double blind scientific experiments that find absolutely no effect greater than placebo.

      Big Homo wants your money for water, and they don’t care how many people get hurt along the way.

      http://www.1023.org.uk

    • iansand says:

      05:06pm | 17/03/11

      For a lazy 8 grand you can pick up one of these http://www.trinfinity8.com/ More vibrations than at which you could poke a sharp fish.

    • Elphaba says:

      05:53pm | 17/03/11

      So want to post the catalogue choices from wildsecrets.com.au right now…

      Warning, if you look that up, it isn’t work safe.

    • nelson says:

      08:27pm | 17/03/11

      Jacqui… the dilution of homeopathic remedies is less than the equivalent of 1 drop of active ingredient in the whole worlds oceans. what they are selling is water. no more, no less, the chances that your little bottle of water has even 1 molecule of the active ingredient in it is slim. what you are receiving is the placebo effect. homeopathy does not have any substantial scientific grounding whatsoever. you can argue with anecdotes and pseudo science quackery and spiritual tales of chakras and the like but unfortunately you are on a dead end path. but im just close minded arent i.

    • Seano says:

      11:54am | 17/03/11

      A regular piece exposing this sort of bullshit is am excellent idea. Well done.

      James Randi does an excellent demo at the start of his talks where he takes a full packet of extra strength homeopathic sleeping pills. Despite the warnings to use only as prescribed and consult a physician in case of overdose (presumably so they can have a good laugh) no change occurs. Randi is just as spry at the end as he is at the start.

      Homeopathy is a con and the practioners of this fraud should be first against the wall come the revolution.

      Reply

    • Likes Joining Dots says:

      01:44pm | 17/03/11

      Seano

      You’ve been conned mate. Prior to the show, Randi dosed up first on Horny Goat Weed which is well known to counteract the effects of that particular sedative.

      Ergo, the name.

    • Seano says:

      03:11pm | 17/03/11

      Nice try. But if that were true why have none of the produces of the homeopathic products in question sued?

      Swing and a miss.

    • Shane From Melbourne says:

      12:02pm | 17/03/11

      The only thing useful with radiation exposure is iodine tablets for the thyroid gland. Oh, and don’t eat or drink produce that may have exposed to radiation, particularly milk. Tinned food and milk is preferable in these circumstances. Homeopathy seems to go back to the times when medicine used to believe that illnesses were caused by a disequilibrium of elements of the body and particular remedies were bleeding or partaking of medicines that had mercury in them. (the leeches were useful though). But the biggest scam of all these days is those nasal sprays that claim to improve the sex life by curing all matter of conditions.

      Reply

    • Joel B1 says:

      01:34pm | 17/03/11

      and Vodka and Prussian Blue.

      I know I drove a radioactive Lada Niva for years.

    • Matt C says:

      12:04pm | 17/03/11

      “Do you know what they call “alternative medicine” that’s been proved to work? Medicine.”
      -Tim Minchin

      I saw someone selling Power Bands just last week, even though their manufacturer was forced by the ACCC 3 months ago to admit that the claims of additional sporting prowess that the wearer would gain had no credible basis. Turns out some people are still willing to pay $25 for a rubber band with a magnet though..

      Reply

    • Glenn says:

      12:46pm | 17/03/11

      not a magnet, silly, a HOLOGRAM. Magnets are bollocks, holograms are amazing.

    • Cat says:

      12:07pm | 17/03/11

      homeopathy is not any more significant than a placebo effect - we know it, the studies have been done, end of story, but you’ll never convince the devotees!

      There is a giant wealth of quackery praying on parents of children with autism. I happen to be a parent of an autistic child and the sheer volume of quackery is disgusting!

      Reply

    • Zeta says:

      12:44pm | 17/03/11

      Hilariously, those studies actually found it was slightly less effective than taking a placebo. They’re yet to figure out why, just another weird placebo mystery - it seems if you take nothing, you get worse, if you take medicine, you may or may not improve, if you take a placebo, a measureable percentage of the population improve… But if you take a bullshit remedy nothing happens at all.

    • baal says:

      05:56pm | 17/03/11

      amazingly a comparative study has shown placebos to work better than no treatment even when the patient is told they are taking a placebo. Whoever figures out the placebo effect mystery is getting a nobel.

    • Mattb says:

      08:35pm | 17/03/11

      @Cat
      “homeopathy is not any more significant than a placebo effect - we know it, the studies have been done, end of story, but you’ll never convince the devotees!”

      I’ve never been to a homeopath, few of my friends have, mixed reports from them all in regards to it’s effects. But that’s their choice I suppose, and if it works for them, then hey, who am I to judge them.
      This leads me to the question I have to ask of you Cat, why are you trying to convince the ‘devotees’ of anything?, why is it any of your business how others choose to deal with their health issues?.

    • Jay says:

      04:28pm | 18/03/11

      At least no one is wasting their time ‘praying’ for you as well - double blind trials of sick people being prayed for showed absolutely no better rates than those not being prayed for. Not surprisingly.

    • Sheridan says:

      12:09pm | 17/03/11

      I use some homeopathic remedies in conjunction with conventional medicine and it sometimes works for me.. I do however take great exception to those who spruik utter bullshit during a crisis.. There have been people claiming to be able to cure cancer with some remedies and, being so close to several sufferers, I really want to throttle them for it..

      Reply

    • Ben81 says:

      12:18pm | 17/03/11

      So how much are you paying for your placebo?

    • HappyCynic says:

      12:30pm | 17/03/11

      You do know that homeopathy is no more effective than a placebo right?  How much do you pay for a homeopathic “rememdy”?

      I’ll give you a pill for half the price that’ll be just as effective if you’re interested.  Currently you’re only paying for very expensive water, nothing more, nothing less.

    • James In Footscray says:

      12:53pm | 17/03/11

      Sheridan, what sort of illnesses has homeopathy cured? Do you use it at the same time as conventional medicine? If so, how do you know what’s having the effect?

    • PTom says:

      02:14pm | 17/03/11

      @James In Footscray.

      For a soar thoarts hot honey and lemon with disprin.

    • HappyCynic says:

      02:34pm | 17/03/11

      @PTom

      1/4 glass of whisky (preferably a nice old scotch)
      1.5 tbsp of honey
      juice from a lemon
      Fill glass with boiling water

      A much better cure for the sore throat smile

    • Markus says:

      02:56pm | 17/03/11

      Mine is a shotglass of brandy, lemon juice and honey, heated and stirred.
      I am sure there is a scientific basis for brandy over whiskey, and not just that my parents only happened to have brandy in the cupboard at the time…

    • LauraBoBaura says:

      03:05pm | 17/03/11

      @HappyCynic - my flu remedy is similar to that, but not nearly as delicious:

      1/4 cup of whiskey
      Juice of a lemon
      1 spoonfull of honey
      2 or 3 big fat red chilis (chopped)
      1 & 1/2 teaspoons of chopped ginger
      Pinch of cloves
      Filled with boiling water.

      Burns like hellfire & tastes like crap. But it’ll dry up a runny nose & clear up your chest in no time. smile

    • HappyCynic says:

      03:47pm | 17/03/11

      @LBB

      Get rid of the chilis and ginger (or substitute ginger root for ginger flowers), keep the cloves and add a cinnamon stick.

      The cinnamon and cloves will still do a number on your sinuses but it tastes delicious and it burns less, also be sure to inhale the fumes for added effect smile

      @Markus - I use a 16yo scotch whisky that’s almost 60% alcohol, your brandy is rendered invalid smile

    • Markus says:

      04:05pm | 17/03/11

      Wasting a 12+ yr old whiskey by mixing it with honey and lemon? Them’s fightin’ words!

    • P. Darvio says:

      12:12pm | 17/03/11

      So….... does that mean Religion is a form of homeopathy? - watered down bullshit?

      Why do Newspapers still publish Astrology charts each day? - they take up more print space than the Weather Charts.

      Yes Brocky and his Crystals - m’mmmm…turns out he wasn’t a very good driver either….

      Reply

    • Ben81 says:

      12:26pm | 17/03/11

      “So….... does that mean Religion is a form of homeopathy? - watered down bullshit?”
      I’d put faith healers in the same category for sure.

    • AFR says:

      03:31pm | 17/03/11

      Hey steady on. You can make fun of religion and astrology, but the King of the Mountain is sacred smile

    • david says:

      12:31pm | 17/03/11

      So Tory - what’s with the need to swear in your Punch pieces.

      Reply
    • Tory Shepherd

      Tory Shepherd says:

      01:06pm | 17/03/11

      Hi, David - it’s true, I have the mouth of a trucker. I debated using the word ‘bullshit’, but really there’s no substitute. Hence just the acronym in the headline…

    • Gregg says:

      12:56pm | 17/03/11

      ” Seen much quackery around lately? Share it here. “

      Well, we hardly need to share it around when Juliar is going to be doing it for us!

      Like how much more Quackery can you get in that a Carbon Tax will put us ahead of the curve when it’s not too sure where the curve is heading towards.

      And then you’ve got blokes rioting on Xmas Island and destroying stuff so they’re rewarded with being taken to somewhere on the mainland and that is bullshit of the greatest kind.

      Hopefully, Port Hedland or Woomera will be back in favour and it’s you wait in line here for being sent back home.

      Reply

    • Bobster says:

      01:25pm | 17/03/11

      Someone should ring a bell every time some whining Liberal nuffy has a Gillard whinge on a completely unrelated thread.

    • bobw says:

      02:20pm | 17/03/11

      Yep, some people just can’t help themselves.

    • Gregg says:

      12:59pm | 18/03/11

      Ha ha, the bobbies
      You ought tyo read a bit further too for Tory did state
      ” Welcome to a new regular Punch piece – I Call Bullshit! “

      And if you cannot see that Quackery can take many forms that is your problem, Juliar being the Queen of Quacks with a capital Q.

      And because it would seem you have a problem with being broadminded, you can always read what Leo and others have to say.
      http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/christmas-island-slowly-drifiting-out-of-control/

    • Bobster says:

      04:11pm | 18/03/11

      Bullshit and quackery are not synonyms. Quackery refers specifically to medicine. Bullshit refers to all politicians equally.

      Why am I even talking to you?

      Don’t feed the trolls.

    • Dan says:

      01:20pm | 17/03/11

      Well done Gregg (rhymes with dickhead). You’ve managed to get your silly political views into a discussion about quackery. Nothing you’ve said has any relationship to the topic.

      Reply

    • Zeta says:

      01:30pm | 17/03/11

      I used to date a girl who believed in homeopathy. In the beginning, I was okay with it, because after all, I believe people should be able to love and make love to whomsoever they choose as well.

      I found out what homeopathy really was after I failed to show up to a vegan cook out she organised, when she gave me some snail venom for my memory. It might not have been snail venom. But wouldn’t a snail with fangs be the most horrific thing in the world? Now imagine a reasonably attractive girl slowly milking a snail fang. I think snails would only have one fang, just kind of jutting out from under that non-head thing with the eye stalks. I’ve always imagined that in the animal kingdom the number of limbs you have corresponds to the number of teeth or something. That might not be true, but I feel it like a homeopathist feels their vibrations.

      I can’t even remember where I was going with this, but it was a funny story that also included hornet’s bile.

      Reply

    • PaulB says:

      03:03pm | 17/03/11

      Snail with fangs?  Or fang?  RUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • Richard says:

      01:30pm | 17/03/11

      Poor Homeopaths… They are subjected to so much antipathy and ridicule these days, what nasty distrustful people we’ve all become.

      You do know that homeopathy has a history of over 200 hundreds years behind it? It was founded by one of the legends of Western Medicine, Dr. Samuel Hahnemann, who lived to the ripe old age of 88 in a time period when the average life expectancy was about half that.. In more modern times, the now deceased Queen Mum, who lived to be over 100, also used homeopathy regularly. Not evidence, doesn’t prove anything, but it could be indicative that perhaps homeopathy is not harmful to health.

      What I find annoying is that the main justification for all these nasty attacks you guys perpetrate is “if people use this remedy they may not decide to use ‘proper’ medicine and thus could experience harm or illness”. For starters, its not an either/or proposition, its called ‘complimentary medicine’ for a reason, it can be used in conjunction with the mainstream conservative medicine you advocate.

      But more importantly, it betrays a shocking attitude on your behalf, where you assume everyone in the world except your smart-arse self is so super dumb and gullible that they need to be protected from themselves and from all the lurking predators waiting to rip them off. Well homeopaths are not predators, they are just normal, well meaning people who are offering to help, you’re not obliged to accept their help.

      But also, people are in general quite intelligent. They are self-interested, rational beings, and they will act in accordance with their highest good, using all the available information they can gather, including their own past experiences.

      Why are you so against people making up their own minds? Why do you have to ram your own narrow, mainstream, conservative viewpoint down people’s throats?

      I have excellent health, but if I ever got seriously sick, I would explore every possible avenue to restore my health. I would not consider money to be any object, I would spend my last red cent to pursue health and well-being. And just because you keep trying to convince me that homeopathy is useless, I think I can safely make up my own mind about that when the time comes thank you very much.

      Reply

    • Markus says:

      02:47pm | 17/03/11

      It’s called ‘complementary medicine’ for the same reason that sugar-doused cereals claim they will make you an iron man ‘as part of a balanced diet and regular exercise’...

    • Elphaba says:

      03:06pm | 17/03/11

      @Markus, or why ‘cold fusion’ is now called ‘Low Energy Nuclear Reaction’.

      Still spells ‘bullshit’.

      @Richard, I have no objection to you pursuing homepathy.  Go nuts.  What I object to, is organisations claiming they can treat life threatening conditions with herbs and chanting, thereby reducing the life expectancy of said ill people, or potentially causing their death - all because they thought modern medicine was a con by ‘big pharma’.

      Honestly, could we BE more American?  FFS…

    • Richard says:

      03:07pm | 17/03/11

      You don’t know that. Science may be flawed. Stop pretending you have all the answers, or that science at its current level of development has all the answers. It does not. There is still so much unknown about the nature of existence and reality. There is knowledge and scientific facts yet to be discovered that will blow your current mindset out of the water. People in generations time will look back at you incredulously and wonder “how stupid and close-minded must they have been”.

    • DG says:

      03:10pm | 17/03/11

      Richard,

      While I agree think that you can “safely make up your own mind”, when you are doing so based on false information ( such as the suggestion that homeopathy has any chance of curing any condition other than dehydration) it is clear that your decision making process has been contaminated. This is no fault of the believer, they believe all information to be equal, and they trust that a claim is honest and true.

      Accordingly, those persons who wish to provide information about said treatments (i.e who claim that it is a treatment ) must be able to provide evidence that the treatment does what it says on the box.

      This isn’t about people believing that it works - its about being lied to and being told that someone works when it simply doesn’t.

      While persons are permitted to perpetuate such lies the general public have no way of making up their minds based on the truth.

      The suggestion that information given by a proponent of bottled miracle water is equal to the information provided by a tried and tested pharmaceutical manufacturer is fallacious. T

      he same standards should be applied to both - before being able to make any claim of efficacy or treatment there must be double blind controlled testing of the claims made.

      Unsubstantiated claims, anecdotal evidence and un-blinded testing are all subject to confirmation bias, honest mistake and fraud - these claims should not, and must not, be considered as on par with claims that are supported by evidence that is uncontaminated by such considerations.

      No one is against people making up their own minds - what we are against is people making claims that are simply unsupported by evidence, and then other persons relying on those claims to their detriment.

    • Elphaba says:

      03:50pm | 17/03/11

      @Richard, I don’t think for a second that we’ve scratched the surface of what’s possible.  However, I do believe that everything will eventually be explained logically, and empirically, without resorting to the ‘woo woo’ factor.

    • Brett says:

      04:14pm | 17/03/11

      @Richard - if homeopathy works, then science isn’t merely ‘flawed’ - everything we know about physics, chemistry, and biology is spectacularly wrong. 

      The problem with homeopathy is that selling people water and telling them that it
      (1) contains an ingredient when it contains nothing but water
      (2) can treat a disease when it can’t
      is deceptive and dishonest.

      (It’s even worse that our health funds and therefore our taxpayer dollars fund this quackery.)

    • Richard says:

      05:08pm | 17/03/11

      Brett, you don’t know what you’re talking about. The universe IS energy. Everything is vibration~ this is an irrefutable fact. It is not a wild proposition to suggest that water can hold a particular frequency of vibration, without the actual inducing molecule to be present after the fact, the studies of Masuru Emoto indicate as such.

    • skepdad says:

      10:11pm | 17/03/11

      It’s not about understanding the science, it’s simple experiment.  Take 10,000 people with a condition.  Give a third homeopathy, a third a placebo and a third nothing.  Observe the effect on the condition.

      All Big Homo has on its side of the efficacy argument is some people who “swear by it”.  All science has on its side is… well, a lot of those experiments that show absolutely no medicinal value in homeopathy.

      You quacks hurt people, including children who don’t get the choice, when you choose and promote totally ineffective remedies for serious medical conditions.  Big Homo is no different to Nigerian email scammers - they both prey on the gullible.

    • Richard says:

      11:37am | 18/03/11

      Rubbish Skepdad, there are no ducks here, you’re raving like a lunatic, and you sound rather “homo” phobic as well.

      People benefit from alternate therapies everyday, in increasing numbers, as it continues to become more and more popular, to the presumable dismay of arrogant, ignorant twits like you.

      A small number are slightly harmed, yes, but far less than are killed, yes killed, stone dead, by mainstream medicine every single day.

    • skepdad says:

      04:00pm | 18/03/11

      Show me the double blind controlled trials that demonstrate Homeopathy is effective for the treatment of malaria please Richard.

      How like an alt med practitioner to play the man instead of the ball eh?

    • Richard says:

      09:49pm | 18/03/11

      Skepdad, I don’t care about randomated, convoluted, double deaf dumb and blind clinical trials. I don’t care whether anyone else in the world has had good or bad experiences with homeopathy. All I care about is my own individual health, and if I try homeopathy one day, and it turns out that it does deliver benefits for me, what’s it to you?

      Why do you care so much that people are experiencing positive benefits from unconventional practices that don’t conform to your perception of acceptable reality? Have you ever considered that its not the other people who are at fault for experiencing benefits, its you who is at fault for refusing to think outside the box and make allowances for the inexplicable?

    • braunman says:

      03:12pm | 21/03/11

      Richard, I would like to point out that in that last message you’re basically saying “I don’t need facts, all I need is my opinion!” I don’t normally like to put words in peoples’ mouths but…really, that sums up your entire post.

    • Sarah says:

      01:35pm | 17/03/11

      Of course the idea that homeopathy can protect you from radiation is absurd. But like many journalists who take a one eyed view of alternative medicine you have jumped on one crack pot practitioner as being representative of all homeopaths. I have a homeopath and the first thing she said when I thought my child might have whooping cough was Go To The Doctor (I had already booked her for a dr visit that day anyway). And yet as a family we have had remarkable success treating all manner of less severe childhood illnesses from peristent coughs to eczema. Most decent homeopathic practitioners will not tell you to turn away from conventional medicine. But medicine is not always the first step for non life threatening illnesses. I dont suppose, Tory, you feel inclined to write something about todays report in the Australian that says medicine related deaths outstrip deaths from cancer and heart disease? Probably not because it’s become sacrilege to criticise contemporary medicine. If you do you’re seen as some sort of freak or consipracy theorist. That’s despite widespread and readily available information about the gross marketing methods employed by big pharma to sell its often ineffective and sometimes harmful drugs. Read Selling Sickness by Ray Moynihan for a glimpse at how that works. Rogue practioners in both alternative and tradtional medicine should be exposed ( and yes there are bad doctors Tory, Dr Patel anyone?) But you can’t tar them all. So its a little bit lazy to just badmouth homeopathy because of one numbnut on the Central Coast. Homeopathy and other alterative therapies offer countless people relief and satisfaction. It’s irresponsible not to acknowledge the great good that has come from homeopathy both here and overseas - whether or not its all in people’s heads. Current medical research into the effectiveness of homeopathy does not in fact say it doesn’t work…it’s inconclusive…which is sometimes about the best result you will get in clinical drug trials and they still go on sale to the public.

      Reply

    • marley says:

      01:56pm | 17/03/11

      “Alternative medicine” which can pass the rigorous demands of scientific validation becomes plain “medicine.” The problem with homoeopathic medicine is that it has never, ever, managed to prove itself in a double-blinded test for anything. Current medical research has, so far as I know, and without exception, found it to be useless. I’d be interested in any result you know of which comes out with a results as good as “inconclusive.” 

      And if you want to pay good money for water, go ahead.  But don’t even think about it if you get cancer.

    • Richard says:

      10:33pm | 17/03/11

      marley says: 01:56pm | 17/03/11
      “Alternative medicine” which can pass the rigorous demands of scientific validation becomes plain “medicine.”

      ICB on that statement. Name one. name one alternative medicine that has become accepted by sneering sceptics. It hasn’t happened because there are people with vested interests in it not happening.

      Meanwhile valid therapies that predate modern medicine are prejudiced against and remain under utilised because the self-interested big pharmaceutical and medical industries have set up all these impossible hoops to jump through, and only accept any evidence if its viewed through their own, particularly narrow and closed-minded paradigm. Talk about a rigged system.

    • Joel B1 says:

      02:25pm | 17/03/11

      Are they like Naturopaths? Just that’s there this hilarious ad on TV for a tooth whitening system. And there’s this naturopaths going “I used it for my wedding and everyone commented on my smile”. Umm, sorry but a super strong mix of household bleach is better than “nature”?

      Reply

    • LauraBoBaura says:

      02:50pm | 17/03/11

      My brother’s ex girlfriend had a brother in law that was into a whole world of bullshit.

      The most memorable one was his ‘mood water’. This pretty much entailed writing words like ‘Inspired’ or ‘Content’ or ‘Peaceful’ on a bottle of water with a sharpie, and then drinking it, this apparently had the effect of releasing the mood into his body through the water.

      He wasn’t particularly impressed after we got drunk & ran around writing ‘dickhead’ on all of his water bottles.

      Reply

    • Matt says:

      02:56pm | 17/03/11

      Hahaha classic!
      Reminds me when my mum put money in the freezer beacause ‘it will bring good fortune’, I used to take it out whenever I needed some cash to go out. Certainly brought good fortune to someone smile

    • Elphaba says:

      03:07pm | 17/03/11

      I love it!!  Do you have any other stories?

    • bobw says:

      03:08pm | 17/03/11

      @LBB:  Gold.

    • LauraBoBaura says:

      04:13pm | 17/03/11

      @Matt - Hahah that’s fantastic! My mum used to do a similar thing, but she use to put the names of people who had wronged her ‘‘on ice’ in the freezer… I think she must have misunderstood a mafia movie or something.

      @Elphaba, oh he was such an idiot, he was a reflexologist, I guess that says it all…. Apparently everything could be cured by poking somewhere on the body, even cancer if it was done right.

      We used to screw with him all the time, replacing his ‘peace’ incense with ‘Karma Sutra’ incense when he was having dinner with the inlaws (this was a serious offence), putting horny goat weed in his herbal teas.. We rearranged their whole house once, un-feng shui’d it completely.. haha he hated us.

      A couple of years ago, my brother’s ex was in a pretty bad car accident, and she was in intensive care for ages, she had a brain injury & the whole thing was pretty shitty. Cue this moron, brings her an ipod with rainforest music, and starts reflexologising her, in the intensive care ward whilst she was in a coma…. Douche. 

      After a few days, she starts to wake up (apparently because he was contacting her subconscious by poking her little toe or some crap).. one of the first things she said after she fully regained consciousness was “Would somebody please turn that f**king waterfall off” - I could have died from laughter.

    • Richard says:

      05:11pm | 17/03/11

      Sneer if you like, but the studies of Masaru Emoto do provide scientific basis for your brother’s ex-girlfriend’s brother-in-law’s practices.

      How about you do a bit of research of your own before pretending you are smarter than anyone else who doesn’t think in exactly the same narrow-minded way you do?

      http://www.masaru-emoto.net/english/e_ome_home.html

    • Elphaba says:

      05:30pm | 17/03/11

      @LBB, that’s hilarious!  I can tell you right now, if I was in a coma and some nimrod played waterfall sounds to me, that would make me TOWARDS the light.

      Ah… it takes all types… he would have been very amusing though!

    • meel says:

      04:10pm | 17/03/11

      Is it science or is it just crap? A facebook group about this topic.

      Reply

    • Geoff - Brisbane says:

      04:30pm | 17/03/11

      I’m not quite sure if this fits todays topic or not.

      However, i found the funniest “alternative medicine” was on Today Tonight not so long again. A Chinese man, only one in Australia (suprise), who claimed he could heal people aches and pains by belting them with bamboo. The man gets paid, by looneys, to belt them with a stick and he doesn’t even need to hide his operations from the cops. What a job.

      Reply

    • Eva says:

      04:32pm | 17/03/11

      I am a firm believer in homeopathy after it cured my pain when conventional medicine did not. Sent home from hospital in severe agony with bruised kidney. Two days following sleepless nights later was pointed in the direction of a homeopath who gave me very specific white pills to take for 24 hours…cured.


      Placebo or whatever I will always consider a homeoepath alongside my GP. Each has a skill to be valued.

      Reply

    • malohi says:

      05:17pm | 17/03/11

      so you are saying even if it is a placebo, the homeopath is skilful?
      The homeopath that sold you something that did nothing other than make you think it did something has a skill to be valued? akin to a trained doctor?

      Do you understand the concept of a placebo?
      Do you understand what non-sequiter logic is?

      I had weetbix for brekky
      I did not get hit by a car today
      therefore weetbix keeps you safe from cars.

      I had a bruised kidney
      I had 2 days of recovery
      I then had pills (presumably with water) and another day of rest
      I was cured.
      must have been the pills
      (or perhaps you forgot about the weetbix you ingested aswell)

    • Seano says:

      05:55pm | 17/03/11

      1. How did you know your kidney was bruised? CT scan? Of course a homeopath is completely useless when diagnosing such a problem.

      2. Umm three days afterwards your pain stopped. Bruises heal.

      3. I’m sure the homeopath was very nice to you and then gave you the equivalent of a sugar pill. Placebo can be a very powerful thing. Should we be paying so much money for a placebo?

      Saying the homeopath has a valued skill on some fairly flimsy anecdotal evidence is naive at best.

    • iansand says:

      06:17pm | 17/03/11

      There is a theory that homeopaths spend a lot longer with patients than GPs, and say “MmmmHmmm” a lot more.  People benefit by simply unloading their problems on an apparently sympathetic person.

    • Eva says:

      09:13pm | 17/03/11

      Went to hospital in an ambulance and had the full range of tests. Was actually very impressed that I got seen immediately when we hear about ambulances being held up for hours waiting for beds. They did the imaging to ensure it wasn’t a kidney stone and then released me to get better in my own time. No analgesics as they would put increased pressure on the kidney for elimination.

      Was nauseous drinking water which was very odd as not nauseous eating food. I do believe the Collingwood captain recently had a similar injury. I bet he understand just how horrible it is.

      Really if the placebo effect works then it is worth every cent. And yes the homeopathic medicine only costs cents not like the pharmaceauticals. Took it because as a sugar pill it wouldn’t put pressure on the kidney. I don’t care if it is hocus pocus or not IT WORKED.

    • emel says:

      04:43pm | 17/03/11

      Eva,
      I am glad that you were feeling better after a couple of days rest at home, but you were still the victim of a scam.
      The pills were probably ‘e’s.

      Reply

    • Eva says:

      09:17pm | 17/03/11

      No I didn’t rest at home I had to work. It was one of my colleagues that insisted I see a homeopath and I am grateful that they did.


      Given the length of time that homeopaths study for their degrees they must have a considerable amount of expertise.

      The homeopath didn’t give me any more time than the resident in the hospital he just had something to give me when the conventional medico did not.

    • emel says:

      11:00am | 18/03/11

      Eva,
      It’s just water.
      Do you realise this?
      It’s just water (and lies)
      Clergy spend their whole lives devoted to their beliefs, that doesn’t make them real.

    • Elphaba says:

      05:31pm | 17/03/11

      “very specific white pills to take for 24 hours”

      Was it Vicodin?

      Reply

    • Eva says:

      09:21pm | 17/03/11

      I suggest that you try a homeoepath one day when you are ill and then you might not be so sarcastic.


      Not even sure that it is possible to get vicodin in Oz and it would not be profitable for a homeopath to give them when sugar pills are a fraction of the cost.

    • Elphaba says:

      06:25am | 18/03/11

      I don’t need to try a homeopath when I am ill.  I have a DOCTOR.  Whenever I am ill, which is not very often, he fixes me. 

      Why would I need a homeopath?

    • Terry Wright says:

      05:49pm | 17/03/11

      My Ex went to see a reiki therapist because she felt run down and stressed from work.

      She was made to roll her eyes around and hum happy birthday.

      The therapist told her I was cheating on her and she left me.

      True story!

      Reply

    • Nancy C says:

      07:50pm | 17/03/11

      If there is any truth to homeopathy, then by homeopaths own reasoning, wouldn’t recycled water have the ‘memory of poo’?

      Reply

    • Eva says:

      09:24pm | 17/03/11

      Quite likely although I would be more worried by the memory of contraceptives and prozac

    • skepdad says:

      10:34pm | 17/03/11

      No of course not Nancy.  How little you understand about the true harmonic majesty of the universe.

      Quite simply, poo (or “food memory”) has a resonant frequency incompatible with the energy holes in water.  The twelfth law of Thermodynamics (I won’t go into detail but it is covered in 2nd year Homeopathic Energy Lattices) prevents a memory from becoming a memory through the action of negative holographic ions which occupy the transient lattice nodes, thus preventing food memories from occupying the space.

      Food memories simply drop out of the water into the luminiferous ether, where they are returned to Gaia and reconstituted as fertile enzymes to nourish future crops of organic foods, leaving the magnetic properties of the water’s energy lattices untainted.

      I hope this has cleared it up for you.  My practice offers a full Food Memory Cleansing Treatment for any water you may wish to consume.  Given the proven benefits of the treatment, I’m sure you’ll agree that the $16.99/litre price (we do this at cost - our energy filters unfortunately require a lot of expensive crystals to power them) is more than reasonable for the undisputed value it offers your family’s health, and the savings you will make on not requiring conventional medicine ever again.  We’re expecting it to be available on the PBS soon.

    • AnthonyG says:

      09:41pm | 17/03/11

      Bag the homeopaths all you like. I use a good 1 and have never looked back. Most problems are caused by what you eat. But the Gp’s will give you pills to mask the symptom rather than fix the cause. My homeopath has a saying that doctors use the theory of, ” if in doubt rip it out” If i had not found my particular homeopath I think I would have karked it years ago. It all comes down to the individuals. You get good ones and bad ones, its pot luck and that goes for everyone.

      Reply

    • Doh says:

      10:01pm | 17/03/11

      Sigh, if only there was this much scrutiny applied to the man made climate change alarmists.

      Reply

    • Richard says:

      12:43am | 18/03/11

      “All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.”
      Arthur Schopenhauer
      German philosopher (1788 - 1860)

      “First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.”
      Mohandas Gandhi

      Reply

    • skepdad says:

      10:20am | 18/03/11

      “If anyone can show me one example of a single homeopathic practitioner who’s been able to prove under reasonable experimental conditions that solutions made up of infinitely tiny particles of good stuff dissolved repeatedly into relatively huge quantities of water have a consistently higher medicinal value than a similarly administered placebo ... I will give you ... one of my legs.”

      Tim Minchin
      “If you open your mind too much your brain will fall out”

    • iansand says:

      05:35pm | 18/03/11

      And bullshit remains bullshit no matter through how many stages you process it.

    • michael j says:

      01:32am | 18/03/11

      I once went to see a famous American Christen Pastor named BENNY HIMM
      at the entertainment centre in Brisbane 15 yrs ago was packed out,after the usual
      singing ,n, praises, an alter call was put out for those troubled with sickness,disease’s and the old ,n,crippled,demonic procession and such like to move to the front of the stage,,,,over a 1,000 i spose ,after 10 min or so of devoted payer he waved his hand and a lot of them fell to the floor,,on stage a few large fellows were helping a lady aged 96 out of her wheelchair and helped her walk/be, dragged along for three shaky steps, as she had not been out of the chair for 10 yrs or so,,a GREAT miracle was declared,,those on the floor got up also claiming to be cured,more miracles,,,,
      Last i heard was he was visiting Australia a few years ago,,tickets had to be booked months in advance threw some church,,
      His wealth at that time was reported to be 1.8 billion dollars,he travelled to Australia in his private jet,,,,,seeing as both policy-making parties want to cut welfare in particular the disability pension mr Rudd,n,Abbot should sponsor him to fix all these people up,by filling footy grounds,it shouldn’t take long ?
      My only comment is Fish being the Christian symbol,,,,,he is a
      Great White in a sea of Guppies

      Reply

    • altoe says:

      09:12am | 18/03/11

      if it doesn’t work for you, don’t use it..but don’t bag it before you try..
      my experience with homeopathy is after I had a bone graft - my specialists were concerned as the bones weren’t knitting at all - they were talking about ‘just trying the other leg’ to see if that bone graft would knit. I went to a homeopath, took their stuff - my bone knitted within 2 weeks - the DR’s were amazed - they had already booked me in for ‘the 2nd try with the other leg’ to graft and luckily due to seeing the homeopath, this wasn’t needed..
      you can all say homeopathy is bullshit, but it worked for me & prevented me from going through another, possibly unsuccessful, 9 hours bone graft operation…how would you deal with that at 16?

      Reply

    • Ange says:

      11:55am | 18/03/11

      Not sure about Homeopathy’s ability to cure radiation sickness but for years and years and years I suffered from constant sinus problems - hayfever, almost permanent irritation in the left nostril making me sneeze at the drop of hat and the inevitable sinus infections which developed. My doctor treated me with antibiotics and advised me to take anti-histamines but it was all just band-aid stuff.  A friend eventually suggested I see a homeopath. I was sceptical but had nothing to lose. And guess what - within a couple of days of starting treatment I started to see results and now that treatment has finished I am completely cured. Even my GP was impressed. I’ve been sneeze free for almost a year now. No more antihistamines, no more tickling nose, no more sinus infections.

      I don’t care what it is or how it works and I don’t even care if it’s some kind of placebo effect. It worked for me - and it might be worth noting cost me a damn sight less than my constant GP visits and mainstream medication. I’m sold!

      Reply
 
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