ICB: Colloidal silver is rolled gold… something

marley says:

01:36pm | 15/09/11

Sure.  And alternative treatments that have no evidence to back them up are called snake oil.

Richard says:

02:28pm | 15/09/11

Do you know what they call small-minded intellectual midgets who trot out the same trite comment every time there is an article on this subject?

Idiots.

Horns Up says:

03:55pm | 15/09/11

Intead of calling people idiots you could back up the bullshit with some sort of fact.

Of course we both know you can’t Richard.

\m/

Richard says:

09:33pm | 15/09/11

Meh~ Facts are so over rated. Give me the drama of the subjective, the excitement of the unknown, the adventure of discovery, over stodgy dogmatism and boorish conventional wisdom any day.

Thanks to modern physics, we know there’s no such thing as true objectivity any way, therefore revel in the limitless possibilities of reality and don’t get too caught up in “facts”.

Horns Up says:

12:00am | 16/09/11

Give me the scientific method and empirical repeatable results over bullshit any day.

PS. I told you you couldn’t back that up, so thanks for the confirmation.

(“Idiots” - oh the irony)

\m/

acotrel says:

05:36am | 16/09/11

The reason there are alternative medicines, is that the cost of getting pharmaceuticals through the regulatory regime (designed to protect us ) is so high !  The documentary evidence required to ‘prove’ effectiveness and safety, is immense and necessary ! Alternative medicines are dangerous. The question must be should the government pick up the tab when these medicines injure people ? The law must be strengthened to prohibit medicines which have not gone through the assessment process.  The level playing field must be maintained.

Richard says:

10:25am | 16/09/11

Horns Up, you’re an intellectual coward. You would never even dare to consider alternative viewpoints unless sanctioned by the orthodox powers that be. Hiding behind nerds in lab coats, using their limitations as justification for your lazy and timid mentality, wow, you’re my hero.

Acotrel, that’s a good comment, and obviously the answer is, NO, the government should NOT be picking up the tab for people’s healthcare. In fact Medicare must be abolished entirely and people required to take responsibility for their own health, instead of immaturely expecting the Nanny State to kiss them better every time they bump their head like babies.

Tangentially, when Gillard was crowing in parliament the other day about being on the right side of history re: Medicare, I do hope she realises that history isn’t over yet, there’s still more to come. In 10 or 15 years, when the great bulk of working baby boomers have retired, and are no longer contributing taxes, but requiring far more medical care than now, thus putting immense pressure on the socialised medicine system, under which it must inevitably buckle and collapse, I wonder if then Gillard will have the temerity to claim that Medicare was on the “right side of history”.

Heather says:

02:36pm | 16/09/11

Yeah Dickhard it MUST have been my 2yo cousins fault she got cancer and died…. how careless of her not to take responsibility for her own health ....

People like you frighten me.

Frank says:

02:42pm | 16/09/11

Richard I guess all those people injured in car accidents (caused by someone else) or bashed, stabbed, burned or maimed by others should have been more consciencious about their health. Add to that those irresponsible souls who contract MS, Parkinsons and Alzheimers. What wanton fools they are! And then expecting the tax they pay to somehow be returned to them via public health care? Oh the inpudence!

Horns Up says:

04:43pm | 16/09/11

@Richard

“Horns Up, you’re an intellectual coward.”

What you call intellectual cowardice whilst hiding behind your belligerence most decent people would call common sense.

“You would never even dare to consider alternative viewpoints unless sanctioned by the orthodox powers that be. Hiding behind nerds in lab coats, using their limitations as justification for your lazy and timid mentality, wow, you’re my hero.”

You make silly assumptions in your pretence that your position of accepting any old unsubstantiated bullshit makes you open minded and those of us who want evidence based results are somehow close minded. I suggest you watch this video on what open mindedness really means, although I suspect you won’t.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T69TOuqaqXI

“Keep an open mind – but not so open that your brain falls out”

The irony of rejection of science in the face of voodoo, woo woo and bunkum is that you’re likely sitting in a room which is heated and cooled, with electric light, communicating via a computer connected to millions of other computers and like many of us having survived infancy only because of the advances made in science.

Keep spouting your undefendable ignorance backed up with little more than bile, the irony is great.

BTW. Every Australian deserves a decent education and decent health care (not your sort of hocus pocus either but actually stuff that works). I would think that most decent minded people, conservatives included, would agree with this point of view.

\m/

St. Michael says:

02:07pm | 15/09/11

I’m blue, daba-dee-daba-da, daba-dee-dah-dah…

fairsfair says:

02:14pm | 15/09/11

It reminds me of when Julia wears her red jacket….

Mr A Dad says:

02:34pm | 15/09/11

Do you Poppa Smurf???

kyzz says:

02:23pm | 15/09/11

No one cures themself of cancer by what food they eat or I’m sure it would be in a proper peer reviewed medical journal by now. Prove your claim and you’ll win the Nobel prize for medicine.

MikeS says:

02:28pm | 15/09/11

None. That’s how many. None. If you can prove otherwise, show the evidence or GTFO.

By the way, just where is the Celtic Sea?

Michael says:

02:49pm | 15/09/11

Kyzz, cancer will not thrive in an alkaline body, so if you eat a diet that is mosltly alkaline you can beat cancer, i think people that are on cancer treatments are on diets that do this for them, plenty of info out there if you want to look for it.

marley says:

03:07pm | 15/09/11

@Michael - its quite true that cancer cells cannot live in an very alkaline environment.  Unfortunately, neither can your normal cells. So, you kill the cancer, but you also kill yourself.  Not the best outcome, really.

kyzz says:

03:30pm | 15/09/11

Michael are you sure it’s not the cancer treatment that is treating their cancer? Eating a healthy diet will help, but I’m pretty sure it’s the chemo/radiation/bone marrow transplant that will do it for you.

Note that these people are combining the diet with cancer treatment, adn conculting their doctors as well. Happy for people to do that, just don’t think you can cure cancer with broccoli alone

justsayin says:

06:06pm | 15/09/11

Have a look at some of the videos and info on the net. Heres one that interested me but there are plenty of them around. And different treatments.
http://www.truththeory.org/cancer-the-forbidden-cures/

On the whole “People who receive chemotherapy increase their odds of living five years after diagnosis by about two percentage points’, straight from Wikipedia. So chemo doesnt offer any real benefits as well although it does vary with different cancers.

Just sayin anyone who discounts anything other that chemo and radio treatments are not giving themselves the best chance at defeating or manging cancer.

justsayin says:

06:18pm | 15/09/11

@  Kyzz and MikeS. Theres thousands of people that have used alternative cancer therapies and are in remission. Just open your eyes and your mind for a little bit.
Celtic Sea Salt it a brand as well. It was a joke.

MikeS says:

06:20pm | 15/09/11

Justsayin, the next part of that quote from wiki is ‘However, this overall rate obscures the wide variation.’ There are many different success rates for different cancers. Chemo is not all encompassing but it is the most effective treatment currently available.

And that link you put up only leads to an advert for a book with a short blurb saying what it is about.

baal says:

03:10am | 16/09/11

@Michael
it is not possible to alter your bodies PH via diet. Your PH is kept within a very narrow range via homeostasis.
Your kidneys keep your blood clean and it’s PH in the safe range. If you have an elevated akaline it is a sign of kidney failure which is usually followed by unpleasant symtoms like death.

AJinDarwin says:

08:54am | 16/09/11

MikeS : Actually Chemo is a rather dated technology but persists because its easy for governments to take data on and raise funding for. It pretty much been replaced by drugs that treat cancer replication or inhibit enzymes but because they havent seeped through into university training courses yet we still use the buttoned up boots approach of Chemo (which in some cases also does more harm than good given its invasiveness but you never hear about that)

Michael says:

11:32am | 16/09/11

Here’s a link that talks about homeostasis and how alkaline food in the diet helps to maintaining a homeostatic? state.

A person can be described as too acidic, so i would say that even though you can’t entirely change the ph within your body you can be on either side of the ideal, and this will affect your ability to heal yourself.

Michael says:

12:26pm | 16/09/11

Ha! forgot the link, nm it was a good read, sort of, no science behind it though.

David says:

05:18pm | 15/09/11

Why Is that any stranger than taking iron or any other mineral supplement?  As for weird things we drink,...  Beer, Wine and Coke are much weirder if you think about it.

HappyCynic says:

03:40pm | 15/09/11

Gold is actually fairly inert.  The only way you can be poisoned from ingesting gold is in common cyanide salts of gold or various gold compounds like gold chloride.

Pure gold though is resistant to corroding or being transformed in the body.  That’s why they use it on cakes or in alcohol like Goldschläger.

David says:

04:54pm | 15/09/11

Silver is NOT a heavy metal or a toxic metal. Look it up.

gobsmack says:

04:56pm | 15/09/11

I’ll have to go panning for gold at the local sewerage treatment plant.

marley says:

07:04pm | 15/09/11

@David - well, if it isn’t toxic, why take it?  The whole point is that it’s supposed to kill things.

Babe in the Woods says:

02:16pm | 15/09/11

Dammit!  I knew I should have logged on earlier.

seniorcynic says:

02:30pm | 15/09/11

There is an ointment (prescription only) called silver sulphadiazine (trade name - Silvazine) which is an antiseptic. Colloidal gold is sometimes used to treat rheumatiod arthritis. Incidentally colloidal gold is red so I guess that if you ingested huge quantities you would turn red.

adam says:

02:45pm | 15/09/11

alls I know is, when treating a full thickness burn on my right lower arm, the medical dudes and dudettes (it’s the proper term you know), after all blistering had ceased and healed, but prior to skin regrowing, applied an ointment containing silver.

mind, I was in the public health system

fairsfair says:

02:54pm | 15/09/11

Yeah, I recall my gran being prescribed some sort of silver based ointment for a really bad ulcer she had on her lower leg. I think it is pretty commonplace - but I will agree that there is a bit of a difference between a topical ointment and ingesting it suspended in water….

marley says:

03:47pm | 15/09/11

Silver (in assorted forms) is still widely used in burns - it has genuine antibacterial properties.  But drinking the stuff is not the same thing at all.

NicoleG says:

02:16pm | 15/09/11

Hahaha adam. I’ve tust turned QT on and I swear Gillard looks like a smurf. Seriously.

kyzz says:

02:25pm | 15/09/11

Don’t forget that it works for vampires as well, not the fey though they love the stuff

adam says:

02:36pm | 15/09/11

Nicole she always struck me more as Gargamel

NicoleG says:

02:54pm | 15/09/11

Hahahaha, you’ve just made me cry laughing. LOL

marley says:

02:42pm | 15/09/11

Wouldn’t it be a better idea to ask the companies that sell this stuff to provide the results of their clinical trials so that we could look at them?  But of course, they don’t do clinical trials.  So maybe we should ask for the peer-reviewed articles in leading medical journals outlining how well it works.  Only, of course, there aren’t any.  Just snake oil from the salesmen.

David says:

04:59pm | 15/09/11

Marley. There are dozens of peer reviewed in-vitro trials for colloidal silver, but clinical trials (i.e. human trials) cost tens of millions of dollars. It ain’t gonna happen.

MikeS says:

06:05pm | 15/09/11

Excuse my ignorance, but what are in-vitro trials?

David says:

06:27pm | 15/09/11

Mike S. ‘In-vitro’ trials are laboratory tests using, for example, bacteria cultures in test tubes and petri dishes. There are literally dozens of peer reviewed in-vitro trials proving that colloidal silver kills pathogens. ‘In-vivo’ trials are those that use real living critters such as humans or animals. Human trials usually cost many millions of dollars. So far, there have been no human clinical trials using colloidal silver.

marley says:

06:49pm | 15/09/11

In-vitro is in a test tube - in glass.  And yes, there are some interesting tests - in test tubes.  But if we can’t get from test tubes to at least mice, never mind humans, sorry, I ain’t a gonna buy it.

MikeS says:

07:11pm | 15/09/11

Right. Clear now. Thanks for that

David says:

07:31pm | 15/09/11

Marley. Well actually there is a peer reviewed (Pub Med) mouse trial and its rather impressive…
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2715611/

Grogg Bogg says:

08:38pm | 15/09/11

The manuscript cited by David describes the aerosol delivery of a compound consisting of silver coupled to a methylated caffeine carrier for the treatment of respiratory tract infections, which is a far cry from guzzling colloidal silver as a general prophylactic.  Nobody disputes the antimicrobial properties of silver but that doesn’t mean eating the stuff is automatically going to be beneficial.  Your gut is chock-a-block with beneficial bacteria for starters.  Alternative medicine seems addicted to making these kinds of peculiar leaps of faith, as is nicely illustrated by Richard below.

marley says:

08:42pm | 15/09/11

@David - nice report.  But not entirely relevant.  The issue is drinking colloidal silver in suspension to cure all sorts of diseases.  The mice got an aerosol in the lungs to clear a lung infection.  Much more specific, and much more limited.

David says:

10:08pm | 15/09/11

Marley and Grogg Bogg.  The paper was about silver being successfully used internally. I’d say it was relevant to something but I’m not going to try and join the dots for you.

Grogg Bogg says:

11:29pm | 15/09/11

It takes a lot of dots to get from a carefully designed silver compound with a targeted mode of delivery and a controlled experiment for testing their combined efficacy, to swallowing colloidal silver on the off chance.

David says:

01:22am | 16/09/11

Lots of people nebulize colloidal silver and benefit from it. The mouse trial simply provided some confirmation for something many of us already knew.

Grogg Bogg says:

03:12pm | 16/09/11

Maybe they did, maybe they didn’t.  Ever heard of the placebo effect?  For all you know they could gain just as much benefit from nebulised water.  The scientific method is one of the most powerful tools humans have ever devised, we spent the last few hundred years or so working it out, and you completely missed the point I guess.

David says:

04:19pm | 16/09/11

Grogg, Too predictable. Its always the placebo effect when something happens that doesn’t suit the skeptics argument. Do mice have positive outcomes from placebos? (The infected mice that were nebulised with silver had better outcomes than those mice who weren’t.)

Grogg Bogg says:

09:01pm | 16/09/11

Leaving aside the fact that the mice weren’t nebulised with colloidal silver, if the placebo effect is predictable why do you and your friends ignore it?  The placebo effect is just a starting point for questioning the value of the statement “I did XYZ and I felt better so doing XYZ is a good idea”.  Why ignore every lesson of modern toxicology and pharmacology? You are throwing away a vast body of accumulated wisdom and believing something simply because you wish it was true.

marley says:

02:43pm | 15/09/11

@JT - actually, it’s Big Copper.  They don’t want silver muscling in on the arthritis industry.

JT says:

02:52pm | 15/09/11

Thank you Marley, I stand corrected

James1 says:

04:49pm | 15/09/11

I just hope that Big Tin doesn’t hook up with Big Copper.  I don’t think the world is ready for the power of Big Bronze just yet.

Chinaski says:

07:38pm | 15/09/11

******* magnets, how do they work?

Lails says:

03:44pm | 15/09/11

I love cracked.com!

MikeS says:

02:58pm | 15/09/11

A) No. It’s not.

B) Yes. When placed on external wounds and can reacte with the air.

C) Yes. Yes they are.

D) No. No it doesn’t

Trumpster says:

03:37pm | 15/09/11

@Richard - You practice CAM for a living? Hardly impartial then are you?

Forgive me if I’ll continue to use real doctors that use proven remedies.

Richard says:

09:46pm | 15/09/11

* cough cough ahem…
Where is your scientific evidence Mike s that silver particles must react with air in order to be effective?

I call bullshit on that, you’re just as guilty of pulling nonsense out of your arse as what you’re trying to accuse others of!

Trumpster, I couldn’t care less if you blithely want to deprive yourself of all the possible benefits that CAM could provide you if only you weren’t such a timid little orthodox drone: there’s nothing to forgive mate.

marley says:

06:56am | 16/09/11

@Richard - please produce one study that shows that colloidal silver can kill H. Pylori in the human stomach.

Richard says:

08:57am | 16/09/11

What’s it to you marley? I don’t know whether colloidal silver kills H.pylori in the stomach or not… I was simply speculating about one plausible mechanism of action.

But marley why is it so important to you, why do you do you get so offended, if I dare to think outside the box?

Why are you such an intellectual coward that you would refuse to countenance any possibility, refuse to the think for yourself, unless its been sanctioned by The Powers That Be?

Seriously, have a little courage and think broadly! Every time you refuse to think laterally and unconventionally in terms of possibilities, the potential intellectual wealth of the human race is diminished.

You are actually committing a crime against humanity with this attitude of yours. Get a bit of courage and dare to think independently.

marley says:

09:43am | 16/09/11

@Richard - why do I get offended?  Because unscrupulous hucksters are making fortunes selling untested, unproven concoctions as “medicine” to the naive and the uninformed.  I reckon, if you sell something as a “cure” or a “preventative” then you ought to damn well be able to prove that it can do what you claim it can do.  Otherwise, it’s just false advertising and you should be in jail.

I’m quite in favour of testing everyone of these things at the expense of the producers - and if they work, fine, licence them as medicines. But don’t allow stuff that has never been tested, never been proven to do what it claims to do, and which has unknown side effects, to be sold as a “health product.” 

Take Vitamin D - plenty of testing behind it, so the makers can make legitimate claims about positive health benefits.  Echinacea, not so much.  Colloidal silver, not at all.

As for the intellectual cowardice, it’s all yours.  Why so reluctant to go through the scientific process to prove the claims of alternative medicine?  Could it be, because you don’t really want to know whether the alt-meds work or not?  Have the courage to find out.

Richard says:

10:50am | 16/09/11

Marley, there are no “unscrupulous hucksters” making “fortunes” out of selling alternative health products, what a scare campaign. And anyway, false advertising is not a jailable offence. Fines, sure. But thrown in jail? You’re being just a little bit hysterical…

And you think I’m reluctant to go through the scientific process? Not at all, bring it on. I’m fundamentally curious about everything and I would love a chance to explore these things deeper, as long as it was approached with respect and genuine curiosity from the outset, instead of being set up as some sort of witch-hunt to “debunk” things.

No marley, the real cowardice is YOUR tendency to shut your mind off and refuse to consider alternative possibilities unless something’s already been sanctioned by a randomated, convoluted, double deaf and dumb clinical trial or whatever. If everyone thought like you, no one would ever even dare to explore the unknown, and those that did would be ridiculed and discouraged, and humanity would be much the poorer for it.

marley says:

12:07pm | 16/09/11

@Richard - there most certainly are unscrupulous hucksters - which is why the American FDA and its Canadian counterpart are regularly taking things off the shelves or fining the vendors for false advertising.  And yes, I think fraud is a criminal offence. 

I have no problem with testing any and all alternative medicines.  My problem is people claiming that they are cures when there is no scientific evidence to substantiate that claim. Even worse, in some cases the alternatives are actually dangerous.

As for your notion that I or people like me would never explore the unknown - well, all I can say is, if you think that, then you don’t understand science at all. Science is, first and foremost, about exploring the unknown, developing new concepts, coming up with new ideas - but, unlike alt-med, it requires those concepts and ideas to be thoroughly tested.  And a lot of the ideas will fall by the wayside as a result of that testing. 
As they should do.  And if you have a problem with double-blinded clinical trials, well then, I can only assume you fear the outcomes.

Richard says:

01:06pm | 16/09/11

No, I don’t have a problem with double-blind clinical trials in the right context i.e. for testing the effects of an ingestible substance. In this context, I do not fear any result that may be produced. I would think that colloidal silver would be a perfect compound to be tested in such a manner.

But I’m not going to do it myself, I don’t have enough time for that at the moment. Furthermore, I’m not going to let the fact that no one else has bothered to test it yet deter me if one I day I decide to try colloidal silver myself. The absence of proof of efficacy does not equal proof of absence of efficacy.

David says:

10:41am | 16/09/11

This seems a rather stupid comment to me. Do you have the slightest proof that people who use alternative medicines are less likely to have have health insurance? Its also possible that, because they are more concerned with their health, they are less likely to be a drain on the health system.

Al says:

11:23am | 16/09/11

David,
I believe Shane* was actualy refering to the fact that many ‘health insurance funds’ now payout for alternative therapies. Not actualy infering they don’t have insurance or are a greater (or lesser) cost to the health system.
Look - Health fund pays out just for proven medical treatments or Health fund that pays out for proven medical treatments + ‘alternatives’, seems like one must have more claims being paid than another and as such higher premiums.

David says:

02:54pm | 16/09/11

Al, that still doesn’t make sense. The health insurance company offered a broader range of benefits in order to attract more customers. More customers equals more profit, and that theoretically should help keep premiums down.  If not, it would be stupid to do it. (Companies try to avoid ‘profit reducing’ strategies.)  Shane’s claim that his premiums would be ‘a lot cheaper’ if it wasn’t for ‘hippies’ is ridiculous.

single hippy girl says:

03:15pm | 18/09/11

Shane, ICB on this.

I use alternative therapies occasionally and can claim a whole whopping $400 a year on all these services - whoopeee, i’m laughing all the way to the bank you pratt

Also, who says that alternatve therapies offered up by the health funds are all new age quackery

The list of extras included by my health fund include dental, optometry, physiotherapy, psychology, podiatry, weight loss, quit smoking, cancer council uv products, ambulance, pharmacy, hearing aids, and pregnancy services, all things tha main stream doctors will happily refer you to that medicare does not cover, the new age type extras are one line amongst ninetenn products, including swimming lessons for kids (of which I have none) therefore my extras cover covers me for having kids and preventing them from drowning, services I will never use.

Your post is such a wank. ICB on having kids then, if people didn’t have kids, i would not have to pay so much for my extras.

Grow up and get a little community spirit, you have to fund the hippies a little, how many of us ‘hippes’ have to fund the main stream breeders who just can’t seem to get their head around the concept of a condom and think that selfishly breeding and killing the planet with overpopulation (whilst many of them expect me to fund their baby allowance, tax breaks, single parent pensions, edication for their kids and a whole list of other taxpayer funded benefits) is a good thing.

If I have to pay for you narrowminded main streamers doing what is considered normal, then fuck it, you can fork out a few bucks for me doing other stuff, i’m sure the normal families of australia cost me more than i cost them in taxes, health insurance, etc

Trumpster says:

03:41pm | 15/09/11

Hippie.

marley says:

03:51pm | 15/09/11

@AmyJane - the “natural” medicines that have become mainstream have done so because they have been tested thoroughly - we know their effectiveness and we know their side effects.  But there are a whole lot of natural products out there that haven’t been tested at all, or have been and have been found ineffective,or even worse, dangerous.  If the vendors of colloidal silver were required to go through the same level of testing that modern pharmaceuticals go through, they’d never be licenced.  So they call themselves “alternative” when what they really mean is “untested.”

MikeS says:

04:00pm | 15/09/11

You are exactly right AmyJane. That is where modern medicine came from. And after long and exhaustive testing, checking trial and error scientific research, they were all proved to do what they say they do.

Kassandra says:

04:01pm | 15/09/11

How did “modern” medicine originate? You might like to read about it sometime. It is a fascinating story and probably not what you think. If you want to know what life (or death) would be like without it just read any relevant history book or visit those parts of the world today where it is not available.

There is nothing “natural” about using colloidal silver - before the advent of antibiotics in the 20th century it was one of the standard “modern” medicine treatments of the time along with a number of other heavy metals. It is an effective antibiotic when ionised in solution and still has uses as such. Many so-called “natural” remedies are in fact old but now discarded treatments that were once “modern”.

JT says:

04:03pm | 15/09/11

‘’ “Modern’ medicine doesn’t have all the answers. So why dismiss ‘natural’ medicine? “

Simple. If these natural alternatives worked they would become a part of…you guessed it: modern medicine. Thus far, they don’t and have not.

TJ says:

04:19pm | 15/09/11

yes look up cracked.com Mercury used to be a ‘natural’ cure all as well

Lilly says:

04:53pm | 15/09/11

While I’m a modern medicine type of girl Amy Jane is correct up to a point. Cranberry juice is well known for helping with urinary imbalances or UTI’s. I myself drank a bottle of it this week and was well cured. Cranberry juice is not a medication it’s just something that works, even doctors recommend trying it, it’s a natural therapy. Acupuncture is well known for helping muscular skeletal system ailments (particularly lower back pain) modern medicine cannot fully explain why it works but hey it does and doctors recommend trying this form of treatment as well as taking drugs. Salt water - you can buy saline but it works just as well when you mix it up in the kitchen, Vegemite for mouth ulcers - works just as well as bonjella but is cheaper and you can have it on toast. The list goes on.

Al says:

09:34am | 16/09/11

AmyJane, the sceptics (and cynics) amoung us don’t dismiss ‘natural medicine’.
We simply do not trust claims that are made and not backed up by scientific evidence.
If you want to make that claim, then PROVE it, if not, don’t make the claim.
BTW - I actualy trained as a herbal medicine practitioner but left due to the massive amount of BS being put forward as truth and the strong emphasis of trying to sell clients ‘curealls’ that were realy nothing more than slightly flavoured water at best (and in some cases downright dangerous….anyone want to consume some highly toxic and poisinous plants, don’t worry its ALL NATURAL).

marley says:

04:23pm | 15/09/11

Oh it’s fine for surface stuff, it’s drinking it that’s the problem.

marley says:

07:08pm | 15/09/11

Mmm.  Well, I don’t know. I’m in no big hurry, myself, to turn blue.  Or have my intestines become silver plated.  I mean, “Goldfinger” is one thing, but somehow “Silver Appendix” just doesn’t have the same ring to it.

Richard says:

10:46pm | 15/09/11

Yes Marley. But for people who do want to become a smurf, is good to know that its entirely safe to do so. And easy to: just take mega over doses of colloidal silver twice a day for decades and whallah.

Anubis says:

09:18am | 16/09/11

Add colloidal silver to our fluoridated water and we can become a nation of smurfs. Be a real boost to the tourism industry.

Richard says:

10:31am | 16/09/11

Why bother indeed malohi, seeing as you’re so content in your own ignorance, so satisfied with your lack of curiosity and wonder, so quick to dismiss anyone else with the courage to risk ridicule and give alternatives a try as a “fool”, why do you bother?

malohi says:

11:02am | 16/09/11

It takes courage to ingest a potentially deadly substance in the pursuit of curiosity and wonder??
I hope you are far removed from courageous babys when they get into the cupboard under the sink.

Al says:

11:44am | 16/09/11

I am not objecting to alternative therapies.
Just show some evidence that they do something better than a placebo effect. If you can prove it then great. If not then go back and do more work so it can be proved. If you don’t want to do that work then don’t complain when people tell you you are using unproven and untested treatments.
I also trained in herbal medicine and left the fiel in disgust over the huge number of practitioners and suppliers pushing bullshit.
I would be happy taking alternative treatments that had been proven to work, but just as I would not be happy taking untested pharmaceuticals, I am not happy to take untested alternative medicines.

marley says:

11:49am | 16/09/11

And ancient man lived to be 30 while modern man lives to be 80.  Fin.

Richard says:

01:24pm | 16/09/11

Not true marely~ in the Huang Di Nei Jing, written dozens of centuries ago, it states: “in ancient times, men lived out their allotted life spans of 120 years free of disease, through living in harmony with the Tao. Nowadays, men are only able to live half their natural life span before being afflicted by disease”.

And we can see that there is a similar situation persisting to this day. Its very rare to see a 60 year old in contemporary Australian society who is perfectly healthy and not dependent on daily doses of pharmaceutical drugs.

Compare this to the ancient Taoists who lived to be 120, without requiring beta blockers, diabex, statins, warfarin, pace-makers, cancer drugs, Thyroxin, etc., etc., etc., and I think it becomes obvious that they knew something that most modern Australians do not.

Al says:

02:40pm | 16/09/11

Richard, doesn’t this all depend on your definition of ‘Ancient’ man?
And if this did occur where is the archaeological evidence to support it?
I am not ruling it out but show your evidence, not just a third party account supposedly written centuries after the fact.

Geoff Russell says:

05:40pm | 16/09/11

Yes and no, Clint. Diet and exercise can reverse atherosclerosis and reduce high blood pressure in most people. Judging by PBS spending on statins, doctors are not telling this to their patients.  Similarly, epidemiologists are now convinced that red and processed meat causes bowel cancer (about 50% of new cases in Australia) but are doctors telling this to people? The bowel cancer screening program didn’t bother to tell this to people in its mail outs to vast numbers of people. Why not?  I don’t believe in conspiracies, but I’d be interested in your ideas about why not.

David says:

06:00pm | 16/09/11

Trouble is. Doctors won’t even look at anything that isn’t pushed by the big drug companies. Its not just because of the need for evidence of ‘efficacy and safety’ .. its because of the liability. Doctors need a fall-guy with very deep pockets if anything goes wrong. So they steer clear of anything that isn’t mainstream. But I get it… I’d probably do the same myself.

marley says:

07:11pm | 16/09/11

@Geoff and Dave - you guys need to get new doctors.  The first thing my GP told me when my blood pressure was a bit high and my cholesterol likewise, was to get more exercise and moderate my diet. 

And no, red meat doesn’t “cause cancer.”  That’s a misunderstanding of the data. There is a correlation between very high levels of consumption of red and/or processed meat and some types of cancer,  but that’s it.

And the fact that we even have a bowel screening program is something for which mainstream medicine should be applauded.

GirlWonder says:

07:18pm | 22/09/11

Geoff:  Doctors DO tell their patients about diet and exercise.  Most people (me included) are too lazy and gluttonous to make the change.  Hence the perscription of statins.