How would Chifley judge modern Labor?

Overflow says:

07:12am | 15/10/10

Hot Tub, you might like to read

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/welcome-return-of-the-prodigal-true-liberal/story-e6frg6zo-1225912533273 

and have a second thought about your last statement.

The Badger says:

09:30am | 15/10/10

Overflow
The one thing the liberals are not is liberals.

Liberal - Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas; free from bigotry.

This certainly doesn’t describe the Australian Liberal party.
They are old fashioned conservatives.
Change is bad.  OK?

farkurnell says:

06:57am | 16/10/10

All of you libs have created this mythology evil labor “machine men”.Please explain “Machine men” and if they exist how they only exist on the one side of politics. I guess there hiding under the beds with all those reds

Wayne Fehlhaber says:

09:07am | 15/10/10

iansand :  No doubt he would have been proud indeed of Tony Abbott for bringing the Liberal party back into a position where it is poised to govern . Proud of the fact That Abbott brought down a Prime Minister in his first term and brought Labor to within a whisker of defeat after just one term.

iansand says:

10:25am | 15/10/10

I don’t think Menzies would have been pleased with the modern Liberal approach of power before principle (something, incidentally, they share with Labor, and why I refuse to vote for either of them).  You may have noticed that none of your enumerated successes have anything to do with principle and everything to do with power.

Harriet says:

11:02am | 15/10/10

Menzies would be so proud of Abbott, after all they both preferred being with the conservative poms.

Wayne Fehlhaber says:

11:10am | 15/10/10

Iansand :  you can’t apply the party principle unless you have thepower of the Treasury bench . Once you have it , then the principle is applied via vision ,  direction and policy implementation .  You tend to put the cart before the horse iansand.

Reg says:

11:34am | 15/10/10

I cannot think of Menzies without identifying a man who used religion to divide the country in two. Purely so that he could come to power in his own rite,... and current day Liberals have the audacity to point at Labor and accuse them of “power at any price.” You should choke on it fellas, although to be fair I’m sure you know SFA about your own origins.

Such division has become the catch-cry of the Liberal Party and is in direct opposition to the Chifley call for unity. But not the unity of the submissive Liberal Party members, rather the unity derived from vigorous discussion and resolved disagreement. 

The shame of it is that they dare to call themselves liberals. They are centralists in the same vein as the communist party was centralist.

iansand says:

12:21pm | 15/10/10

None so blind as the one eyed.  Wayne - the reason your favourite Howard survived is that he abandoned principle in search or maintenance of power.

Wayne Fehlhaber says:

12:46pm | 15/10/10

Reg if you are referring to the Vince Gair Qld Labor party split which spread to Labor federally and kept them out of office ( thank God ) for a long time , i have to point out to you that Labor screwed themselves , nobody else did it.
A politically astute Liberal Leader like Bob Menzies certainly siezed on the split and belted Labor’s proverbial arse with their own cudgel .
When Menzies was finished with the ” cudgel ” he gave it back to them and the A.L.P. then proceeded to belt the living crap out of themselves.
It was wonderful to watch Reg , those were the days.  Huh ?

Wayne Fehlhaber says:

12:53pm | 15/10/10

iansand :  What wouldn’t the people give to have a Howard /Costello duo back in office after the circus that has been performing as a government over the past three years.
Never mind , that’s wishful thinking , however we do have Tony and the Liberal Coalition waiting in the wings to clean up the mess Labor has made , as usual.

Christian Real says:

01:01pm | 15/10/10

Wayne Fehlhaber
You attempted to ridicule me what I have written, but at least it is more truthful than the diatribe you have attacked my comment with.
The Vietnam war, the protestors and American President Lyndon Bain Johnson visit to Australia.
The anti war Vietnam protestors laid down on the road, blocking the way of the vehicle with Premier Askin, and President Johnson inside,  the then Liberal Premier Robert Askin was reported to have said for his driver ‘To run over the bastards”
Robert Menzies, the Liberal Prime Minister who sold scrap iron to the Japan, (which was later said to be used in weapons against our troops)
Harold Holt,the Liberal prime Minister who mysteriously vanished, never to be heard of again.
Malcolm Fraser,proved to have some intrity and credibility by resigning from the Liberal party.
This is what Malcolm Fraser had to say about the then Prime Minister John Howard’s anti-terrorism laws in “The Canberra Times”
“Nazi tones in Howard’s anti-terrorism laws:Fraser”
Wednesday,2 November,2005.
“Former Liberal prime minister Malcolm fraser has suggested parts of the Howard government’s anti-terror package resemble measures taken by Adolf Hitler.”
“Some of this legislation is truely terrible,’ he said, “Some of the analogies…one of the first pieces of legislation Hitler’s government put into place was something for ‘the good order and safety’ of the citizens of Germany:preventative detention..”
“Some parts of the [Australian] legislation sounds horribly familiar.”
“He added preventative detention, under which suspects could not contact their families,nor employers, “seems effectively to be a law to make somebody disappear”, ” I think that’s an odd law for a country like Australia,” Mr Fraser said.
John Howard’s Government also seems to have a history of detaining ‘Australian citizens’ under their newly enforced detention laws,Cornelia Rau, was just one example of Howard’s blotched laws.
The brown-nosing that John Howard did by appeasing the American President,  by following America into Iraq, over the pretence of “Weapons of mass destruction” that no longer existed” in Iraq.
The list is endless…..........
:

TimB says:

01:04pm | 15/10/10

@ iansand- “Refuse to vote for either of them”.

Do you live in one of the Green/Independent electorates iansand?

If not then either you voted informally or your vote eventually went to one of the Big 2.  If the latter (which IMO is highly likely to be the case, happy for you to tell me I’m wrong though), then you did indeed vote for one of them.

iansand says:

05:06pm | 15/10/10

TimB - I never vote.  It only encourages them.

Wayne Fehlhaber says:

06:38pm | 15/10/10

Christian :  There is no need on my part to ridicule you Christian as you seem to be doing a great job on your own.
I got as far as line 3 on this post before my eyes glazed over , good grief - who would have any interest in the garbage from Labor archives you have trawled through to fuel your latest hysterical outburst. ?

Fiddlesticks says:

07:48pm | 15/10/10

So Iansand never votes, eh. What a total cop out. 

But here he’s been, pontificating away, as if he actually stood for something.

Bah. Total humbug. Makes every comment of his, past, and present and future, of nil value.

Just as well he finally told us - it’ll save a bit of time from now on.

Reg says:

09:08pm | 15/10/10

Oh Wayne Wayne, how blinkered you are when it suits you. Let’s run with your wily Bob Menzies. I mean I wouldn’t want to scar your already scared memory.

Having been booted out once and sent smokey arsed by the poms when he thought he could do a better job than Churchill, he “had to come here and face the ignominy of an election,” at which he was again sent smoke arsed into the wilderness.

What was the greatest division in Australian society? Catholics versus Protestants. Where were all the Catholics, mainly Labor supporters. What was going to engineer the split for him? The Petrov Affair. A contrivance of the Menzies mentality that John Howard still gets sweaty palmed about.  Nothing’s changed in the Liberal Party.

Wayne Fehlhaber says:

08:30am | 16/10/10

Christian Real :  At least i don’t go trawling through Labor’s sludge bucket to regurgitate lies and ludicrous inuendo to fuel my comments.
Stick to facts . Maybe then people will read your posts. The garbage you have dredged up has whiskers on it.

Reg says:

11:19am | 16/10/10

Wayne, the whole article has whiskers on it. It is dredged up by a supporter of the fascist cause and regurgitated as relevant to a modern Australia. It’s about as relevant as the Italian wedding group at St Joeys a year ago who finished the ceremony with a unified Fascist salute. Now there’s a topic of the same period Sophie may care to resuscitate. Just remember, she yours, not ours.

Christian Real says:

12:10pm | 16/10/10

Wayne Fehlhaber
They are the real facts, not like the lies that you Liberal imbeciles continue to peddle.
I don’t get my information from Labor archieves as you falsely claim that I do, I get them through the online media outlets which I add to my computer favourites to use as future references.
It must be a Liberal trait that you cannot, and will not accept the truth Wayne, even it it bit you on the bum.
I am not afraid to go one on one with you Wayne because I have truth on my side and I will not back down, no matter how much you misconstrue and twist the truth to suit your own Liberal idealism and fantasies

Wayne Fehlhaber says:

02:43pm | 16/10/10

Reg :  Blinkered ?  me ?  Maybe Reg , but please allow me to correct some of your wild claims on Sir Robert Gordon Menzies.
Menzies was the longest serving Prime Minister in Australian political history with a total of 18 years 5 months and 3days. Now thats a fair record for someone you are trying to denigrate Reg.  Seems the majority of Australians thought he was a great man for a long , long time.

The Petrov Affair involved the Australian Communist party which was heavily involved with the A.L.P. . Dr Evatt accused Menzies of engineering the Petrov defection but this lucicrous claim was subsequently disproved .Labor’s downfall resulted from Menzies seizing on the issue and pounding the crap out of Labor with their Communist party associations. Once again , Menzies proved his worth as a wiley politician.
Now let me explain just what split the Catholic Labor vote . Vince Gair formed the D.L.P. which garnered much of the Labor Catholic vote .
The D.L.P. directed their preferences to the Liberal party. This is the truth of the split in votes based on religion , a split in the Catholic vote ,
not a divide between Catholics and Protestants as you have claimed .

Wayne Fehlhaber says:

05:23pm | 16/10/10

Christian Real   :  Sure you have truth on your side , the truth according to the Labor brain wash unit . Well you just keep right on using their garbage Christian , it provides a good laugh occasionally.
As for future debate , and going one on one with me , be my guest . I’m always available . My speciality is raining on parades.

Reg says:

03:56am | 20/10/10

I see my reply has been moderated to protect the guilty Wayne. So here again is why Sophie’s choice of a topic is so irrelevant, or to use your words, has whiskers on it.

If you read her headline your may be able to ascertain that she is asking, “what was it that influenced the outlook of Ben Chifley in the 60 years prior to 1945 and how does it compare with the influences of the last 60 years on current Labor Politics.” 1885 to 1945 and 1950 to 2010.

Are you still with me?

I guess we can ignore 1945 to 1950 for some reason, which is rather extraordinary considering it was the post war rebuilding period and the insemination period of most baby-boomers. 

Let’s see now, Boar War, WWI, 1929, Depression, Rise of Nazism, Japanese Invasion of China, Bob Menzies swanning about with aspirations of grandeur and the little matter of WWII, just for starters.

Since you and she were probably around for the second period I’ll leave you both to wonder at the differences and how it might have altered the outlook of a modern Labor Party, as the Warden of the Cinque Ports reveled in his colourful regalia content that he had earned his laurels by draining the life-blood from Australia to the benefit of his English masters. 

In future Sophie, I’d suggest you give more thought to the implications of your headline because in this case it was nothing but an ill-conceived comparison of periods that were incomparable. The sort of thing I’d have expect from Wayne.

Leave the money on the fridge.

Dash says:

08:07am | 15/10/10

Ha Persephone. The Liberals have to my mind not had a government anywhere near as bad as the Whitlam or Rudd governments. I can’t think of an unconstitutional deceitful mess to rival the Khemlani Affair Perse! Rex Connor and the breifcase full of bank notes, hyperinflation!

In terms of your comment on nation building, arguably the two most prosperous times in this nations history have been under Menzies and Howard! And that’s why they are the two longest serving Prime Ministers in our history. Compare that to Whitlam who served only one full term and yet you lot hold him up as a God???

The most significant tax reform since 1936 was the introduction of the GST. Labor states have benefitted from that Perse yet largely p!ssed it away.

Your comment on the GFC is laughable and shows zero understanding of economics. For starters, the ALP was not burdened with debt because the Howard government paid Labor’s debt off. Secondly, they were left with over $20b in surplus to work with. Thirdly, the Howard government brought in the Financial Services Reform Act which gave us the strongest banking and insurance sectors in the Western World. And finally China was growing at over 10% with an insatiable appetite for our natural resources. You discredit all of that in favour of $900 handouts to dead people! The second stimulus was not required, was wasteful and has driven interest rates up. Now the ALP are following inflationary policies.

In terms of education and health, the ALP state governments are the reason they are in a mess Perse! Rudd campaigned on state issues in ‘07 i.e. state education and state health.

The ALP continually tries to rewrite history. You fall for it. And this is yet another example. Why not see it for what it is, socialist propaganda!

Scarneck says:

08:27am | 15/10/10

The ALP are a proud party based on true believers in the common wealth of all - the Liberals are a loosely defined party based on individual ego’s.

Dash says:

08:35am | 15/10/10

Persephone, Heres a list and it’s just from the Howard era:

1. eliminating Labor’s $96 billon government debt
2. by 2007 Australia was saving $8.8 billion a year in interest payments
3. a GDP growth rate of 3.6 per cent on average per year
4. increase in average household income between 1994-95 and 2007-08 of 50 per cent
5. decline in number of households dependent on government pensions and allowances from 28.5 per cent in 1994-95 to 23.2 per cent in 2007-08
6. creation by small and large businesses of over 2 million jobs
7. restoring Australia’s AAA credit rating
8. establishing the Charter of Budget Honesty and the independence of the Reserve Bank to manage monetary policy
9. New prudential supervision of financial institutions through the Australian Prudential Regulatory Authority (APRA)
10. an increase in real wages by 21.5 per cent between 1996 and 2007
11.  providing the largest tax relief in Australia’s history, and a much fairer tax system from 2000 with the introduction of the Goods and Services Tax (GST) – followed by further tax relief in 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006 and 2007
12. lifting productivity on Australia’s waterfront to world standards
13. the improvement of telecommunications through the privatisation of Telstra and enhanced competition in the industry
14. an increase in the number of apprentices in training by more than two-and-a-half times – from 154,800 in March 1996 to 397,400 by December 2006
15. ending the discrimination against Australian domestic students by allowing them to invest in their own education, as overseas students were able to do
16. increase in total revenue for higher education institutions from $8.6 billion in 1997 to $16.8 billion in 2007
17. an increase in the number of higher education students from 659,000 in 1997 to 1,029 846 in 2007
18. extension of income-contingent loan schemes to graduate and fee-paying students, including at private higher education providers the establishment of a specific Future Fund,
19. providing for the future superannuation liabilities of Australian public servants
20. Australia’s first national literacy and numeracy standards to identify and overcome disadvantage
21. The Socio-Economic Status funding system for independent and systemic schools
22. Priority for school-to-work programs such as Jobs Pathway and enterprise education development of the civics education program
23. an increase in funding for government schools from $1.4 billion to $3.5 billion in 2007/08
24. record growth in the manufacturing industry and a record increase of manufacturing exports to $81.3 billion in 2006
25. the introduction of the Work for the Dole program, helping to get long-term unemployed back into the workforce
26. replacement of the ineffective and bureaucratic CES with the world-leading Job Network
27. increased funding for the Australian Federal Police and an increase in staff numbers from around 2,000 to more than 6,000
28. an 88 per cent increase in health spending, with more than $51 billion allocated for 2007 l
29. arge increase in the proportion of children receiving immunisation against poreventable diseases
30. a nationwide strategy to involve communities in the protection of the environment through the establishment with the States of catchment management authorities across the continent under the Natural Heritage Trust and the National Action Plan for Salinity and Water Quality
31. a Water Quality Action Plan with the Queensland government to protect the Great Barrier Reef lagoon setting new international standards in the protection of marine areas by expanding from 5 per cent to 33 percent the proportion of the Great Barrier Reef Marine Park protected from exploitation
32. establishing the National Oceans Office and the commencement of marine protected areas around the entire continental shelf
33. establishment of the National Heritage Council and the National Heritage list for the effective protection of Australia’s national heritage
34.  building of the National Portrait Gallery and planning the new Museum of Democracy
35. the Alice Springs - Darwin railway
36. Instituting nation-wide gun controls following the Port Arthur massacre
37. Strengthening Australia’s defence forces and defence co-operation with the United States and Britain .
38. Declaration of the operation of the ANZUS Treaty following the 9/11 terrorist attack on the United States;
39. co-operation with other nations and the upgrading of internal security leading to the successful prevention of any terrorist attack on Australian territory
40. Effective humanitarian response to the Bali bombing
41. Leadership of the United Nations mission to restore independence and democracy to East Timor Mission to the Solomon Islands to restore democracy

Ryan says:

09:01am | 15/10/10

@Scareneck: “The ALP are a proud party based on true believers in the common wealth of all - the Liberals are a loosely defined party based on individual ego’s. ” you mean like our high interest rates, spiralling out of control utilities prices and now a carbon tax oops sorry a carbon “price” (because they would have us believe they aren’t one and the same). MOST families are in much worse financial positions since Labor came to power, the farmers are certainly copping it, and since the Labor party has effectively morphed into that people hating communist Greens party then I cannot agree with your rosy colored idea of the Labor party. What is FACT is that ALL politicians aren’t the most upstanding members of society, I however personally take umbrage at a prime minister that blatantly LIES to us the public and sees no issue with that whatsoever, and neither do their loyal followers. Good luck on getting any of those pre-election promises, not to mention all the broken promises from the first term of this dropkick government.

Wayne Fehlhaber says:

09:16am | 15/10/10

persephone :  Rather pleased you mentioned Vietnam with the current
debate raging on support for our troops in Afghanistan.
How well we all remember the Labor organised trash and rabble who spat on our troops on their return from Vietnam , calling them murderers . How proud of those despicable acts Labor must be.

T.Chong says:

09:17am | 15/10/10

Dash, cant think of any coalition scandal ? Then let me remind you:
AWB. remember that one?  300+ million for someone the ADF was actively in combat with.
Makes Khemlani look like a small time player.
Not to bad at history revision yourself, Dash.

Dash says:

09:53am | 15/10/10

Chongy, small time player??? WTF! Remind me of the size of the unconstitutional loan Whitlam, Cairns and Connor were trying to organise in 1975?? We’re talking billions pal! And we’re talking actively trying to circumvent the democratically elected parliament. A dog act for which they paid dearly at the December ‘75 federal election. Labor was wiped out in the lower house! None of that is history revision, it’s fact!

Scarneck says:

10:02am | 15/10/10

@ Ryan - Ask Bob Katter what he has to say about how well the farmers got it under the Howard regime. The problems facing Australia now have been largely brought about because of Howard dropping the ball in relation to spending on infrastructure, education and training…Costello and Howard’s obsession with budget surpluses has cost this country dearly.

Christian Real says:

11:22am | 15/10/10

Persephone
It is probably because the Liberals haven’t got many truthful events to write about ,  or maybe as you say , they can’t write.

Macon Paine says:

12:16pm | 15/10/10

Gotta hand it to you persephone that is some mighty fine trolling! I have highlighted 6 blatant trolling tactics in your post, read on to see:

“Almost every criticism Mirabella has made about the Labor party could be equally applied to the Liberals.”
“After all, we don’t need to hold a seance to know what past Liberal PMs think of the modern Liberal party - Malcolm Fraser has made his views about this abundantly clear.”
Step 1: Attempt to hijack the debate by desperately diverting attention. Also according to persephone, Fraser now speaks on behalf of deceased Liberal leaders? who would have thunk it!

“If the Liberals were proud enough of their past to get around to recording it”
Step 2: Make outlandish claims and provide no evidence to back them up (Liberals are not proud of their past and cant be bothered to record it).

“(and isn’t it interesting how many Labor histories and biographies there are, compared to Liberal ones? Especially given that the Libs have been in power far more often and longer than Labor. Is it because Libs can’t write, or is there nothing to write about?)”
Step 3: Foist ridiculous assumptions upon the reader. Assume the reader is aware there are more Labor histories and biographies than Liberal and even if this were true (which you have fail to prove) pretend this actually lends some sort of credence to your argument. Also use the appeal to popularity fallacy (what relevance does the number have? you fail to prove any relevance) and the use of puerile insults.

“what ‘nation building’ items could they boast of?”
Step 4: Attempt to frame the debate (ie the debate must not go outside of “nation building”) by using arbitrary catch phrases like “nation building”. How exactly do you define “nation building” anyway? Please enlighten us goddess of the underworld.

“Vietnam? The introduction of the GST?”
Step 5: Poison the well. Taint an important and legitimate reform with memory of an unpopular war. Nice try.

Step 6: Be disingenuous:
“Whereas Labor can legitimately point to the Snowy River scheme,’
Who built it though?
“post war migration,”
Great. Must not mention the Wh..Wh..Whi..White Australia policy, damn too late!
“reform of the economy (big real reforms, like floating the dollar),”
Credit should go to Hawke and Keating for this but you introduce more arbitary nonsense. Who are you to say what “big real reforms” are?
“guiding us safely through the GFC,”
The ship was built and sailing on calmer waters.
“and a future wave of projects like the health reforms and the NBN”
The jury is out on the health reforms, why does WA reject them? Ah the NBN! If I want to keep my fixed line telephone service will I be forced to connect to the NBN? What about the mandatory internet filter? Aren’t you proud of that?

Troll harder persephone, it’s becoming painfully obvious.

acotrel says:

12:23pm | 15/10/10

Dash, cant think of any coalition scandal ?

How about the billions of tax dollars that Costello lost playing the money market? OOPS!!

Ryan says:

01:12pm | 15/10/10

@Scarneck: while I agree more most definitely should have been spent on infrastructure and the like, what those surpluses “cost” Australia was not plunging into recession with the rest of the Western world, thank goodness for that !

Steve Putnam says:

10:40pm | 15/10/10

@Wayne Felhaber below. Whatever the reception the troops got from the anti-war activists upon their return from Vietnam pales into insignificance compared to the stony silence they got from the coalition government in response to their legitimate health concerns once it had been confirmed that they had been exposed toxic chemicals such as agent orange. The RSL went along with the government and then went further by stating that Vietnam wasn’t a war it was just a ‘policing action’ and the Vietnam guys weren’t returned soldiers in the fullest sense.
You claim claim the ALP orchestrated the protests against the returned diggers…... can you supply some evidence?
Lastly do you think it fair (as successive coalition governments did) that young men were expected to take up a gun and fight for their country , maybe even take a bullet for their country, but because they were under 21 not be permitted to vote?

acotrel says:

07:39am | 16/10/10

‘iansand says:05:06pm | 15/10/10

TimB - I never vote.  It only encourages them.

So you throw the sacrifice 100,000 ANZACs made in two world wars, back in their faces?
They fought and died for our democratic rights, including the right to vote!

mickijo says:

02:18pm | 16/10/10

“Chifley would judge modern Labor”, he wouldn’t recognise it most probably. Nor would my parents, both strong Labor supporters. Where is the Labour people in “Labor”? They are all uni pro’s I should think.Lawyers and union leaders and such like. Not a solid workman among them. What did Gillard work at?  Wolves in sheep clothing has a ring about it.

acotrel says:

12:19pm | 15/10/10

Dash:
’ And we’re talking actively trying to circumvent the democratically elected parliament.’

What you must mean is ‘actively trying to circumvent the legally constituted loans council’?  The reason - THE LIBS BLOCKED SUPPLY!
How old were you at the time?

Dash says:

04:51pm | 15/10/10

acotrel, wrong post?? Oh so it’s OK to try to organise an unconstitutional loan just because the Libs voted against the ALPs policies to rack up more debt? What a twisted view of the world!

Christian Real says:

07:17am | 15/10/10

He quit the party, because he does not think much of the way the “modern Liberals” are heading

Wayne Fehlhaber says:

09:18am | 15/10/10

Acotrel :  Who cares ?

The Badger says:

09:47am | 15/10/10

Malcolm quit for a number of reasons.
He believed that the party had become one of “fear and reaction”
Disgust at the way Malcolm Turnbull was dealt with.
It tilted too far too the right
Mr Abbott, was “all over the place”’ on policy
He disliked the racist overtones adopted by the party in the debate on immigration

Perhaps it came to a head with the emotional cost of seeing the party move further and further to the right. “You know when is this going to stop? Where is it going to stop? There’s almost an authoritarian streak, the way issues are used for political purposes.”

Sven Gali says:

09:56am | 15/10/10

Nobody, Wayne. It’s only the Liberal party.

MarK says:

11:38am | 15/10/10

Lol Fraser and Liberals were seerated in the 1980’s.

It just took 20 or 30 years to get the divorce finalised.

Seriously .....dragging up Fraser. You guys can’t even get Hawke, Keating, Beazley, Rudd and Latham in the same room for a photo opportunity the hatred is so deep.

That dog won’t hunt. Love it.

acotrel says:

11:53am | 15/10/10

‘How well we all remember the Labor organised trash and rabble who spat on our troops on their return from Vietnam , calling them murderers . How proud of those despicable acts Labor must be. ‘

Yes and they probably organised those malcontents who booed at Menzies funeral! They obviously didn’t know what was good for them?

Mike T says:

01:30pm | 15/10/10

@ Acotrel….

and i wonder what the last ALP leader thinks of the currnet “Reds”......of the record that is!!!!!!!

Sven Gali says:

01:35pm | 15/10/10

So although Fraser said he left the Liberal Party when Abbott became leader, MarK, you don’t believe him and think that was just a coincidence ?

p.s. Seriously .....dragging up Chifley.

Reg says:

01:55pm | 15/10/10

Gotta give it to the Liberals eh MarK, it took 20 or 30 years to decide on a new direction and they still got it wrong. At least I’m sure Ben and all the others you name would have thought so. And that’s what it’s all about, reacting to the excesses of an inward looking opposition of whom Sophie is one. I bet she still thinks Mussolini was a great guy as well.

MarK says:

03:57pm | 15/10/10

nope no coincidence at all

none

nada zip

just in case

nil

thank you for your question

got to run, i see a light up on a hill. gonna check it out. bbl

Sven Gali says:

04:33pm | 15/10/10

Just as I thought then, MarK. Glad to have helped you make up your mind.

Maurie says:

08:47am | 15/10/10

“You are not much of a sniper, you havent learned the art of camouflage. People can see you for what you are a mile off”.

That’s why we like you Soph - you believe in things and are prepared to stand up for them.  Sniping from the bushes (ala Labor) is pathetic and weak!

mickijo says:

03:21pm | 16/10/10

It would be a great change if we could, for once, see something Labor have done that they haven’t made a real hash of. Including ,most important, Border Control. Now the bods that hijacked that ship are going to walk the red carpet as well as the latest boat people. Who is going to pay for all this mate? Guess who?Same who are paying for the insulation stuff ups and all the rest including the mining tax, the Great Global Warming scam,. Just for once, give the tax payers a win.

Christian Real says:

07:57am | 15/10/10

Sophie,
Perhaps you and your Liberal colleagues should be asking yourselves how Robert Menzies would judge the modern Liberal Party of today.
For a start Menzies would be demoralised to think that the Liberal party is being lead by someone like Tony Abbott, who couldn’t even spare the time to visit our troops on his way to meet the British (Tory) Prime Minister for his 15 minutes of fame,because he wanted to arrive fresh, and not “jet lagged” is what the reason Abbott gave..
Even Tony Abbott’s office could not get the story right, as they claimed ‘Scheduling difficulties” as Tony Abbott’s failure to meet and greet the troops in a bipartisan visit with the Prime Minister.
Mr “don’t belive everything I say Abbott”, also reneged on a written agreement to provide a deputy speaker and also pairing for the new minority Government.
Another one of Tony Abbott’s lies, when he had previously said that unless it isa carefully prepared,  scripted,written statement then it is not “The Gospel Truth” , but it now seems that even a carefully prepared, scripted,written statement or agreement is still not “The Gospel Truth”
And it was former Liberal Premier Robert Askin, who was reported to have said to his driver: “Run over the bastards”, when protesters against the Vietnam war laid down on the roadway blocking the passage of the car carrying Premier Askin and the American President Lyndon Bain Johnson.
Then there was Prime Minister John Howard, appeasing the then American president George W Bush in an attack against Iraq,.
Reason given, was Iraq had ‘weapons of mass destruction, which has since proven to be an outright misleading lie used to condone their invasion of that Country.
Where is the peace in Iraq since the troops have withdrawn, it is still a hotbed of unrest and turmoil.
Then John Howard invaded our people’s lands in the Northern Territory,(Intervention Howard called it) and that is something that I will never ever forgive the Liberal party for
Sophie, take a look at your own party, where it’s going, where it is headed, instead of ridiculing and attacking other Political parties with your diatribe.

’

Nicole says:

08:44am | 15/10/10

Oh my God Christian, if you don’t stop banging on about Abbotts visit, I’m going to cry. Please change the record.

Dash says:

08:54am | 15/10/10

Hey acotrel, you forgot the unconstitutional Khemlani Affair where the ALP tried to circumvent our democracy by setting up an $11b loan (in 1975 I might add) with a dodgy Middle Eastern loans shark! You forgot the Hyper inflation and rising unemployment. You forgot the levels of debt despite the state of the economy. You forgot the sex scandals and you forgot the disgraceful treatment of our troops on returning from Vietnam. You forget Grazby, Cairns and Connor. Most of all, you seem to forget the result of the Deceber 1975 election!

You also seem to forget that Billy Hughes (that great champion of conscription) was a Labor Prime Minister!

Wayne Fehlhaber says:

09:27am | 15/10/10

Christian :  Someone has to tell you , it may as well be me. 
After reading one line of your comment , the eyes glaze over because it’s the same crap , over and over and over and over.  Please Christian ,
dismiss whoever is supplying you this endless brainwash of recycled Labor lies , innuendo and just straight up bulls@#$.

Dash says:

09:38am | 15/10/10

Christian, you have a very warped sense of the reality of just about everything! Invasion of our peoples lands??? WTF! How can you invade your own country? Do you mean the policy implemented with the aim to protect women and children? Should have left them to be raped and bashed instead should we??

Also, I thought by now you’d understand that Gillard fabricated the Afghanistan stunt. Abbott did find time to visit the troops. What are you on pal? Organised his trip before Gillard actually. As for 15mins of fame, what was Gillard doing there if it wasn’t a photo opportunity. “Sorry” day was the greatest photo opportunity of all time! Certainly did nothing for living standards, unlike your so called “invasion”! 2020 Sumitt, turned into nothing more than a photo opportunity also!

As for lies. Come on man! The real Gillard or fake or whatever she is and Rudd, have told so many since 07 it must be some kind of record. 200+ childcare centres, we wont touch the private health tax rebate, root and branch tax reform, we’ll abolish compulsory uni union fees, not negotiable profits tax, there will be no carbon tax, I fully support PM Rudd, I was only a member of the socialist Forum in my 20s, the hole in the budget from the profits tax backdown is only $1.4b, I’m a fiscal conservative, more affordable housing, cheaper better childcare, we’ll turn the boats around, we saved Australia from the GFC (ha ha ha), the NBN will cost $3b, no wait $7b, no hang on $43b, no child shall live without a laptop, we have an East Timor solution yet it never existed!

Sven Gali says:

10:00am | 15/10/10

When you read the article, you’ll find it was Sophie Mirabella who brought it up, Nicole.

Christian Real says:

11:10am | 15/10/10

Dash,
A typical Liberal, you cannot get your figures right, just like Hockey, Robb and Abbott who was found to have an $11 billion hole in their policy costings.
The Khemlani Affair, the amount of the alledged loan was $4 billion, not $11 as you have written, you can look it up on the net to refresh your   memory

Wayne Fehlhaber says:

11:29am | 15/10/10

Sven , yes Sophie did bring it up , simply because she needed to highligh Gillard’s political bastardry to the mugs out there who are still in denial.

acotrel says:

12:45pm | 15/10/10

‘You also seem to forget that Billy Hughes (that great champion of conscription) was a Labor Prime Minister! ‘

Until he crossed the floor and started his own version of the conservatives!
Billy Hughes is one of JWHs heros!

Sven Gali says:

01:49pm | 15/10/10

That’s what I said, Wayne, so I don’t know why you’re telling me and not Nicole.

Regardless, I’m glad she did, as the more often people are reminded of Abbott’s “Jetlag” foot in mouth gaffe the better.

Christian Real says:

02:17pm | 15/10/10

Wayne Fehlhaber
It is only ‘Crap’ to you because you do not have the ability to accept the truth.

Nicole says:

04:44pm | 15/10/10

Sven, because we’re both saying the same thing smarty pants.

Dash says:

04:59pm | 15/10/10

Sorry Christian, I must have been thinking of the bribe Gillard paid to become PM! Oh on;y $4b in 1975, wow that’s completely fine then! What’s the compounded inflation rate done to the ALPs $4b dirty unconstitutional loan? What would it be in todays dollars??

Sven Gali says:

11:17am | 16/10/10

If “stop banging on about Abbotts visit, I’m going to cry” and “Sophie did bring it up , simply because she needed to” are “both saying the same thing”, then you are one very schizoid person, Nicole-Wayne.

Nevertheless, please continue to remind people of Abbott’s “Jetlag” gaffe as often as you like.

Nicole says:

03:01pm | 16/10/10

Now I’m Wayne and now Wayne’s me. But I can’t be Wayne because apparently he’s Dash and Dash is apparently Wayne. So does this mean that I’m Wayne, Dash and me? This just gets funnier.

Nicole says:

07:16pm | 16/10/10

Also Sven, if you didn’t just decide to pop in every now and then, comment on threads purely because you’re just trolling, you would understand precisely what Wayne and myself are referring to. I wasn’t going to bother, but please refrain from your childish name calling. You look really silly.

Sven Gali says:

07:26pm | 16/10/10

It certainly does, Nicole. Or maybe you just have “Jetlag” ?

Sven Gali says:

10:35pm | 16/10/10

Speaking of looking really silly, Nicole, which “childish name calling” would that be ? Please provide examples.

Robert Smissen, rural SA, God's own country says:

04:26pm | 17/10/10

Acotel conscription, like “The White Australia Policy” was introduced by Labor’s Billy Hughes

acotrel says:

07:07am | 15/10/10

Castro, beauty is in the eye of the beholder!

iansand says:

08:20am | 15/10/10

Castro - This disdain for democracy is unbecoming.  It appears to be a growing trend among Liberal circles.  It is one of the reasons I stopped voting for them.  That and the fact that they ceased to be liberal.

Dr Dog says:

02:13pm | 15/10/10

The Liberal party can’t even raise enough votes on its own and relies on the National Party every time it actually acheives government, so how exactly is Labour any more dead than that.

In fact given the actual party numbers I would suggest that both institutions are in the iroon lung.

But what impresses me the most is Liberal triumphalism even when defeated at the poll. No wonder the Libs are increasingly anti democracy. They always go this way when voters remind them that they are not members of the royal family and therefore have no inherant right to rule.

acotrel says:

07:54am | 16/10/10

I note that our government intends to act with humanity, and release non-threat asylum seekers into the community awaiting processing. Apparently we still have more than 700 kids locked up under Howard-like policies, so loved by the Liberal Party.  So now ‘boat people’ will be treated the same way as ‘jumbo people’? What was Howard’s excuse, again?

MarK says:

11:40am | 15/10/10

Hi Barry.

Name me 5 of the stolen generation with some reference to actual stories that can be verified.

Thanks

Barry Everingham says:

04:52pm | 15/10/10

C’mon Mark: If Sophie was fair dinkum she’d move a motion in the House accusing the Aboriginal Member for Hasluck, Ken Wyatt, of misleading the House by saying his mother was a member of the Stolen Generation. The lunar Right is totally out of order denying Aboriginal kids were stolen from their parents.

Ryan says:

09:03am | 15/10/10

How do I thumbs up that comment? Well said!

Bob Dole says:

09:22am | 15/10/10

Bob Dole continues to chuckle with people who refer to themselves in the third person.

T.Chong says:

09:28am | 15/10/10

T.Chong wonders- you now start reffering to yurself in the 3rd person Mike T,?  of course,!  just like Mr T !
Some might find it a bit conceited, T.Chong just finds it funny.

Mike T says:

01:44pm | 15/10/10

@ TC

Thanks for supporting what my actual post noted…...

No need to answer the questions when you can divert away…..

Mike T continues to chuckle in 3rd person…........

Bob Dole says:

01:54pm | 15/10/10

Bob Dole asks, “what questions” ?

Nicole says:

04:24pm | 15/10/10

Nicole likes Mike T’s comment very much. And Nicole thinks he’s funny

Bob Dole says:

04:50pm | 15/10/10

Bob Dole says , “No surprises there then, Nicole”.

Mike t says:

05:04pm | 15/10/10

@ Bob Dole

Do you add any thing to the debate or do you just make passing comments and pointing out grammar mistakes….

Bob you are correct. What I meant to say why no response to my points, rather then my questions.

Thank you for taking the time to point out something of such high importance. Please continue to give me feedback on other key issues such as font size and colour.

Regards
Mike T (in the third)

Bob Dole says:

05:53pm | 15/10/10

Bob Dole says Mike t says Bob Dole is correct.

Christian Real says:

11:41am | 15/10/10

Nicole
Abbott is doing a good enough job to smear himself he certainly doesn’t need any help.

Nicole says:

03:15pm | 15/10/10

No, that’s being done for him by Gillard and her cronies.

Christian Real says:

05:13pm | 15/10/10

Tony Abbott was the only person that cited Jet Lag as a feeble excuse for not combining in a bipartisan visit of our troops with Julia Gillard.
Julia Gillard did not put the words the words in Tony Abbott’s mouth,nor did anyone else, and yet Abbott and his tunnel visioned, narrow minded supporters are attempting to blame everyone else for the foot in mouth response from Tony Abbott.
In The Age, October 11, 2010, Phillip Coorey from Sydney Morning has said “That the disclosure did not come from the Prime Minister or her office” and he also said “I did not learn about it from the government”
Tony Abbott has only himself to blame and no one else,and his badly thought up excuse only exposes him as being incompetent to be even Leader of the Liberal party

Daryl says:

10:01am | 15/10/10

Liberal = socialist?? Hmm, interesting. Labor Green coalition = not socialist??? Hmm, very interesting view of the world Shane!

Shane From Melbourne says:

08:12pm | 15/10/10

Since both parties have enhanced the welfare state and industry subsidies, then yes, both parties, the Liberal/National coalition and the ALP/Green coalition are socialist in nature.

Steve Putnam says:

07:33pm | 16/10/10

Don’t forget that they are in coalition with that agrarian socialist organisation that calls itself “The National Party”.

Christian Real says:

07:52pm | 15/10/10

Acotrel,
The Liberal party should perhaps be prosecuted for misleading the Australian voters by falsely claiming that all their policy costings had been audited by a accounting firm when in fact they were not.
Lies and more lies from the party that thinks and believes that they are “born to Rule.

Ryan says:

07:21pm | 17/10/10

@Christian Real: oh and please do specify which of the LIES I mean election promises will be fulfilled by Gillard.. this should be really entertaining.
While you are at it, please do specify which Liberal political personalities have received preferential treatment due to their family, please do.. I am quite interested in you actually proving that blatant Labor LIE.
LIES and more LIES from the party that is so incompetent that it has spend us into a black hole while delivering million dollar toilet blocks, setting fire to our roofs and killing four innocent workers.

Nafe says:

10:45am | 15/10/10

What did you want him to say?  “i actually organised to ge next week, Moday 11am flilght to arrive and will stay on the base for 6 hours, will walk here here and here following this route. My exact co ordinates will be whatever” .

Seriously he could not say he was going to go, and when due to safety foor himself, and the soldiers. Wake up buddy.

T.Chong says:

11:14am | 15/10/10

JetLaggs problem is he cant let any occasion go without trying to big note himself.
He was too tuckered out, because he had to be all bright eyed for those he sees as his peers.
Self claimed ‘iron man’, self claimed moral guardian of the nation, and after the Afghan visit, where he said he wanted to go out on patrol- as if?
he knows he wouldnt be able too, but just couldnt bypass the chance in order to be the tough guy.
Turnbull knows it will pay very soon to be JetLaggs complete opposite.

iansand says:

12:27pm | 15/10/10

I reckon saying “You know and I know that I cannot comment for security reasons” would have done the job rather well.

Christian Real says:

08:17pm | 15/10/10

Nafe
Tony Abbott could have said that he had already organised to visit the troops at a later date and left it at that, there was no real reason for him citing ‘Jet Lag” as it was a febble, foot in mouth excuse.

acotrel says:

08:01am | 16/10/10

I’d have loved to see Abbott ‘go out on patrol’!  It’d probably have been like when Billy Hughes visited the battlefields in France and sh*t himself when a couple of shells went overhead!

acotrel says:

12:26pm | 15/10/10

Yes Labor will have to stop responding to the games of the Liberal Part!

Daniel says:

10:39pm | 15/10/10

The ALP has backed itself into a corner. Its trying to please unions and working people while at the same time its taking donations and kickbacks and have to please its backers while treading over working families. Thats why the Greens have now filled that void. Things are looking up in Australian politics now.

Reg says:

04:26pm | 15/10/10

Try these for judgmental cliches Kendell… add your own hue.

“The disgraceful politicking ..”
“Of course, there’s some modern kitsch…”
“There’s no doubt that when the ...”
“Sadly, it has everything to do…”
“misfits will be remembered more for their mind-boggling incompetence and ongoing policy failures.” ... that’s for sure.

I’d have had him stamping on the Daisies or ripping someone a new one.

acotrel says:

07:56am | 16/10/10

‘Sophie
Who are you going to vote for in the next party room spill, it would seem that Tony Abbott’s days as Leader is fast approaching the use by date ‘

FASCIST BARBIE ???

Sven Gali says:

04:43pm | 15/10/10

I’m betting you’re wrong, Dr Dog. Nobody would pay anyone for that drivel.

acotrel says:

08:04am | 16/10/10

‘Will we be still paying interest on an enormous debt that was racked up in order to pay for a fibre-optic network of the same type that Liberal leaders are able to supply their constituents for free, by co-operating with the free market instead of trying to stifle it with a groaning monopoly?’

Richard, your faith in private industry and the free market are quite touching.  The NBN is too important to be left to a bunch of exploitative GRUBS!

acotrel says:

08:13am | 16/10/10

Ad1, you are wrong - I care what Sophie thinks!!  I live in her electorate, and I live with the consequences of her do-nothing poisonous attitudes!  I’m still waiting to hear her INNOVATIVE ideas for development of the area around Wangaratta and Benalla.  In other words, how she is going to develop the motor racing industrial precinct around Winton Raceway, and the abbatoirs in Wang?  I want to hear how she is going to help our council Community Development Officers get government grants to develop our area’s industrial base?

acotrel says:

05:11am | 17/10/10

‘control in dictating the education system so that she turns every student from pre school to university in the next 10 years into loyal Fabian Socialists’

I thought we got past using communism, as a ‘Labor plot’ in 1989, when the Berlin wall came down?  You’ll have to find yet another phobia! Something like - Labor intends to nationalise all the country dunnies? That should really create some fear!

acotrel says:

05:16am | 17/10/10

It never ceases to amaze me the people who don’t see themselves as ‘working class’? What makes you believe the conservatives in Australia care whether you are middle or working class?  They’ll treat you like sh*t whatever!