Maybe it’s because free-to-air TV programming in this country is ludicrous, but I have only just gotten around to watching the first two seasons of a critically acclaimed US TV series I had been longing to scratch off my ‘To Watch’ list.

Oh yeah baby.

Ironically, Mad Men - the show set in the un-pc world of Madison Avenue circa 1960 - did more for my own personal consciousness raising than Gloria Steinem ever did.

Falling into this fictional world really rocked mine.

Okay, so I rarely have cause to use the term ‘mise en scene’ without sounding like some kind of film school wanker, but after watching just one season of Mad Men I was throwing the phrase ‘lush production design’ around with abandon. I was seduced by the glamour of Sterling Cooper and the cleverness of the writing.

But the seduction had a flip side.

As I reveled in all things Mad Men I went about my own life – regional Australia, circa 2009.

Part of my daily routine is a bike ride to the beach near where I live.

But now, along with my bicycle helmet, I was wearing my very own pair of Mad Men goggles which imbued everything with something less than a rosy glow.

As I rode into the sunrise I encountered hordes of women alighting at the train station and heading city-wards.

I raged inside as I pondered their destination at low level admin positions where they would slog away until they were ‘relieved’ by the dubious saviours of marriage and kids and the quiet desperation of a Betty Draper life.

Similarly, I journeyed past a luxury hotel where, through the glass fronted exterior which afforded sparkling water views of the harbour, I glimpsed rows of business-suited gentlemen being served their all-you-can-eat buffet breakfasts by girls barely out of their teens. (Granted, these girls may have been working their way through uni but hey, I was wearing my goggles).

I seethed away, wondering if, for all of Mad Men’s irony and satire, things have really changed as much as we think.

Friends agreed it could be possible that some of the things we thought were past - misogyny, racism, sexism, smoking - were simply hidden beneath the veil of political correctness.

Has inequality gone underground? Has the feminist backlash kept us quiet?

Finding myself in the not-too-familiar world of feminist thinking I wondered why I had never really been here before.

I pondered my youth and came to the conclusion that the 80’s were, quite possibly, The Decade Feminism Forgot.

Growing up in the tragic era which seemed to be marked by feminine power in the form of shoulder pads, I was led to believe that fighting the fight was somehow unnecessary, and possibly a little unsavoury.

As one of four daughters in a single parent, working class family, talk around the dinner table was more about survival than the finer points of First Wave versus Second Wave.

And feminism definitely wasn’t on the curriculum in 1981 at the Catholic all girls’ school I attended.

Back then I found my feminism where I could - in pop culture.

Madonna was the loudest voice telling us we could have it all and we could have it in whatever position we wanted and with whomever we wanted and we could photograph it and sing about it and dance about it all at the same time.

We could be an object of desire and still be a ‘powerful woman’. The fact that Madonna has become a cultural oddity rather than a cultural icon with her cheek implants and sinewy body has kind of lost me to her cause.

She could have made such a difference. 

And so this recent mid-life, Mad Men inspired, feminist crisis grew so that I came to despise the strait jacket, patriarchal conspiracy masquerading as a pencil skirt.

And watching the episode which ends, as Bruce Handy says in his Vanity Fair piece, with “a single shot of a woman at the end of her day, rubbing the sore shoulder where a bra strap has been digging in,” I finally -  finally! -  got the whole point of bra burning.

My burgeoning awareness was enhanced by a report about the opening of a new gender research centre at Adelaide University.

Christine Beasley, co-director of The Centre for Research on Gender says gender discrimination remains rife in society:  “You can’t assume that it’s the case that there are no gender issues, no forms of gender discrimination or gender stereotyping that aren’t in play in the media, in work, in home life and that they aren’t still restricting people’s options.”

By now I was dangerously close to becoming strident.

Unfortunately my knowledge and understanding of the issues was still limited. Not a good match for strident.

So it was kind of lucky that I stumbled across Benjamin Schwarz’s piece in the November edition of The Atlantic - a voice of reason to rescue me from my obsession.

Schwarz acknowledges all that is wonderful about Mad Men but accuses it of having a, “mushy ideology” which is sometimes evident in the representation of, “whatever Important Points it wants to make.” Ouch.

With this understanding some measure of common sense returned.

I had fallen into the old trap of borrowing my social, cultural and ideological theory from pop culture.

So, reluctantly, I took off my Mad Men goggles.

I won’t need them to read The Female Eunuch.

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    • Ziggy says:

      06:08am | 18/12/09

      Until ‘feminists’ can accept powerful women who do not conform to their elitist liberal view, they will continue to be forever be mired in their strait jacketed view of the world.Powertful women disconcert men and women alike. Take an excellent current example. Palin.With all her flaws, for example, she would have made mincemeat of the Mad Men - as a woman, as a politician, as just a plain person. Even now she can hold her own with powerful men and have them quite disconcerted and panicky. But the sisterhood rejects her out of hand. Therein lies the rub for those women seeking equality - they are still mired in their basisc drive to dress and behave to obtain the approval of other women! We mere men are more influenced by sex and power. Dear Sarah has them lusting after her and she holds her own at the table with them in the power dealing stakes.We don’t care about her K Mart clothes or the fact she does not have a degree from Princeton.Or she is ignorant on some issues. She’s a player at the table.It’s a potent mix. Because of her abilities and achievements.Not a pale imitation man or ‘feminist’ - just herself. There are many other examples.Until the ‘feminists’ can embace the Sarahs of the world instead of the hate filled personal attacks they will forever be imprisoned by their odd, artificial view of what constitutes an equal opportunity ‘feminist’. Maureen Dowd, for example, illustrates this point perfectly. I’d rather take the view of the wonderful and respected Camille Paglia.

    • hoofman says:

      07:40am | 18/12/09

      I chanced to hear on the radio this morning the 60s song written by Burt Bacharach: ‘Wives and Lovers’. Its lyrics are salutory for those women looking to that era for inspiration:

      Hey, little girl,
      Comb your hair, fix your make-up.
      Soon he will open the door.
      Don’t think because
      There’s a ring on your finger,
      You needn’t try any more

      For wives should always be lovers, too.
      Run to his arms the moment he comes home to you.
      I’m warning you.

      Day after day,
      There are girls at the office,
      And men will always be men.
      Don’t send him off
      With your hair still in curlers.
      You may not see him again.

      For wives should always be lovers, too.
      Run to his arms the moment he comes home to you.
      He’s almost here.

      Hey, little girl
      Better wear something pretty,
      something you’d wear to go to the city.
      And dim all the lights,
      Pour the wine, start the music.
      Time to get ready for love.

      Dim all the lights,
      Pour the wine,start the music.
      Time to get ready for love.
      Time to get ready,time to get ready for love.
      Time to get ready,time to get ready for love.

      ‘Time to get ready for love’. Right after you’ve done the cleaning and cooking of course. Now THAT"s when women were women and men were very very happy.

    • Bec says:

      08:01am | 18/12/09

      Ziggy, pull you finger out. Palin was a corrupt, incompetent leader who was chosen on the basis of tokenism. If you think talent = taking five years to do a three year arts degree despite no family or work commitments or any kind of physical or intellectual disability, your standards are low, son.

    • John says:

      08:07am | 18/12/09

      Has inequality gone underground? Has the feminist backlash kept us quiet?  Very sharp observations - I thought the truth would never surface.  Tiger proves a good point about the allure of power and money…how many independent gold digging woman has he had at his beck and call.  It’s still a man’s world.  I don’t say this with pride neither.

      What chance do many men or women have of finding their ideal love interest in a world that still leans toward inequality between the sexes.  Aren’t balanced relationships the result of equality and mutual respect - when women are viewed primarily from a beauty perpsective and men for their status and wealth (generalisation, of course) then the chances of finding lastin love are not good - just look at the divorce stats - too much idealism and not enough realism exists in the form of, you said it “political correctness”.

    • Ziggy says:

      08:56am | 18/12/09

      Dear Bec, I am not a supporter of Palin for high office. I would not vote for her because I don’t believe in all her policies. You missed the entire point. Despite what your emotional personal view is, she is a woman who deals with men in politics and business in a very powerful way. Person to person.Not by using sex or having a PhD from some Ivy league college and access to major media. Just her views, her values, her drive and force of personality.Your elitist type comments on how long it took her to get a degree etc are mere drivel and underline the points made in my earlier comments. She will not become President but she will have a major say on who will. Now lets see how her feminist critics will influence that decision. It’s no contest is it? Point being is that she remained herself as a person and got there on her own steam despite all those obstacles. And she remains a woman - not an imitation man or a wannabee ‘intellectual’ who are still scorned and trampled upon by the men they supposedly try to impress. It’s about power. She understands that. You don’t.

    • john says:

      09:02am | 18/12/09


      I’m all for a gender transition movement where men and women join together in a fight for equality and mutual respect.  For example, there’s also a large gender gap when it comes to suicide, which may come as a surprise.Today, in the Western hemisphere three to four times as many men complete suicide compared to women. This suggests that males are indeed socialised in ways that make them poorly equipped to deal effectively with their emotional lives. Subsequently this makes them more vulnerable and likely to resort to suicide when in crisis.

      Dr Martin, a senior lecturer in mental health in RMIT University’s School of Social Science and Planning, claims that the reasons men are more likely to commit suicide than women results for a number of reasons and from a variety of life pressures in which they are often poorly equipped to deal with. For example, the pressures experienced by men emanating from separation and divorce, custody and access, work and other life pressures. Many also do not attempt to seek out or receive treatment for depression orextreme anxiety. The stigma associated with depression, particularly for men, often results in the person trying to hide it, according to Dr Martin.

    • H os SA says:

      09:03am | 18/12/09

      I think you have a point - which could be taken into other fields too (e.g. racism, classism) that political correctness actually hides and obscures some of what’s going on.

      Oh and pop culture products are a legitimate way to understand the society we live in, its just that its very depressing viewing.

      I haven’t watched commercial tv for years - DVD’s saved my entertainment life - but I assume they are still full of crass gender attacks both ways. Women as sexual objects, men being portrayed as too stupid to bring home the right brand of icecream.

      None of these sex war hack jobs are insightful, edifiying or helpful. Until men and women get beyond being cheap fix bogans who swallow such crap whole - its a depressing aspect of society.

    • Peter says:

      09:11am | 18/12/09

      I’m just going to say here, whenever a role model of mine gets cheek implants and a sinewy body, I instantly dismiss them, and all the wonderful things they’ve done.

      You don’t solve racial or gender inequality by brute regulation and a hardline culture of political correctness. You expose all inequality without a veil of niceity. It may not be pretty but it works.

    • John says:

      09:11am | 18/12/09

      Hi Jayne

      Here’s a few sad statistics to support my previous point - very sad facts. In Australia, for example, according to a recent report by the Australian Federal Government in 2006, 1398 males (13.6 per 100 000) and401 females (3.8 per 100 000) died by suicide, which represents a ratio of 3.5:1 of completed male suicides to female suicides in Australia in that year. Similar ratios have remained constant for many years. Similarly, in the United States, in 2006, the most recent year for which statistics are available, suicide ranked as the seventh leading cause of death for men but ranked as the 16th leading cause of death for women in the United States, and overall suicide remains the 11th leading cause of death, according to the the Center for Disease Control and Prevention.

      Suicide, whether by male or female is tragic .  Additonally, women are twice as likely to suffer from depression than men whereas men are much more likely to be involved in violent altercations than women - on balance there’s a lot of depression and anger to go around and both are just as destructive as the other.

    • Sarah says:

      09:18am | 18/12/09

      The problematic nature of equality both with and without the “mad men goggles” is an intriguing one. I’ve never really bought into the notion we “could have it all.” Can anyone? Even the erstwhile Tiger Woods couldn’t, apparently.

    • adam macleod says:

      09:51am | 18/12/09

      If you want to check up on the Gender Divide, look no further than the toy isles at the department stores. 

      On the girls side we have pink babies, pink kitchen stuff, and pink vacuums. 

      On the boys side we have cars, planes, action figures, walkie talkies and LEGO.  (And while you might identify the 80s as the decade that feminism forgot, at least there were lego girls in lego town back then)

    • Liz says:

      10:08am | 18/12/09

      The 80s sold many an impressionable young girl the idea that we could have it all; that marriage and children could wait; that career was all important- a different set of goggles, but a distorted premise just the same.
      Today the pendulum has swung back in the other direction,  “if you liked it then you should have put a ring on it.”
      I and I think you’re spot on, inequality has gone underground.

    • E says:

      10:13am | 18/12/09

      And what about equality for aged women? They are the invisible, unwanted by anybody force that will soon form the biggest voting bloc in Australia. And just watch the reaction of the poiticians when they realise this. At present the pollies talk about retirees being the big power holders but it will in fact be female retirees who will hold a massive amount of voting power, because women in general live much longer than men. Maybe then we’ll start to be paid a decent pension rather than having to live on baked beans so we can pay the power bill.

    • delperro says:

      11:25am | 18/12/09

      Great piece Jayne, I think this is my favourite you’ve had on this site.

      One thing it would be good to hear what you think about is the extent to which women perpetuate their own mal-alignment.

      My point is with Pencil Skirts - and numerous other fashion oddoties, high waisted skirts, bras, legs shaving and on and on, I think women find to other women. I think that women see men as the only source of women’s disadvantage.

      However women do it to themselves. Having not seen much of MadMen, I found it slow - I think this was evident even in the scenes which I saw. That sure the women were put in awful cringe-worthy position by their malke overlords, they were EXTREMELY judgemental of each other.

      Nice piece tho.

    • Juju says:

      11:46am | 18/12/09

      adam macleod says:10:51am | 18/12/09 - I have a son and daughter, both in their 30s now.  I don’t know if you have kids or not but from first hand experience, my daughter loved ‘pink babies, pink kitchen stuff, and pink vacuums’.  On the other hand, my son loved ‘cars, planes, action figures, walkie talkies and LEGO’.  I now have a grand-daughter (2 years old) and she also loves ‘pink babies, pink kitchen stuff, and pink vacuums’ and my niece’s 2 year old boy loves ‘cars, planes, action figures, walkie talkies and LEGO’. Nothing changes,  it is hard-wired into them. Girls love soft cuddly things, boys love rough and tumble toys.  I’m sure anyone who works at a child care centre would tell you the same.  Although I agree with equality of pay and opportunity for women, I think that women who want to be ‘just like a man’ (and I’m thinking more of out drinking men or out sexing them), are in for a fall, because not many men actually want a woman like that .

    • nerida says:

      11:46am | 18/12/09


      Perhaps you could consider that the judgemental and antagonistic nature of the way women treat each other is a direct result of the cringeworthy positions they are put in by their male overlords. Perhaps we women are not quite at fault for perpetually feeling like we’re in competition with one another. A sentiment seems to exist that all women cannot succeed simultaneously, only the smartest & most attractive. Of course this is true to an extent - noone’s living in la la land here - and there is competition between men also, but it feels to me like men compete with men to be the better man, while women compete with women to get the better man.

      Put us in a competitive and hostile environment, and yes, we will fight.

    • H of SA says:

      12:04pm | 18/12/09

      Hey John, very good points about men’s health/suicide. If you haven’t already you should consider doing Movember next year - funds from that go to Prostate cancer and depression -as depression is a major men’s health issue - so it is part of the suicide situation in Oz.

      Also something to feed into suicide stats - attempted suicide is pretty much the same for both genders - but there are more male suicides. The explanation for this is men generally use more lethal means of attempted suicide than women.

    • Formersnag says:

      12:40pm | 18/12/09

      Ziggy @ 9:56am, Bec & her kind are incapable of honesty, they will never admit the truth, no matter how many facts you throw at them.

      If you are impressed by Sarah, try this, my aunt the “Rocket Scientist” would be in her early 90’s if still alive. She completed high school and her first degree before WW2, went into top secret weapons research, continuing after the war at the Woomera rocket range. You won’t find her biography in “the female eunuch” or any other femanist claptrap, because her life does not perpetuate “the myth”, that all Aussie women were oppressed before femanism came along in the 70’s to save them from we “evil demonic males”.

      BTW, she did not however get the chance to engage in the post war baby boom. Many men her own age were slaughtered in that war defending the rights of femanists everywhere, to complain about everything, including the stuff they just made up. Many other women of that era, had “careers” as well, because there was no man available to provide them with a meal ticket.

    • Bec says:

      01:46pm | 18/12/09

      Wow, formersnag, you’re right. I mean, my grandmothers being forced to quit their jobs and inability to have a credit card in their own name was just them having a lark. They don’t find it too amusing in retelling it to us grandkids, though.

      And it’s spelled ‘feminist’. You don’t get to criticise an ideology if you can’t spell it.

    • Bateman says:

      02:04pm | 18/12/09

      Mad Men is a good show but mires itself in its attempt to satirise along the lines of modern political correctness. This attempt at trying too hard is what makes it fail as a sublime show and means it is just a great show.

      The wife living a life of quiet desperation…..this is where is all falls short. It’s a cliche pushed by the feminist agenda. Someone needs to look after the kids and make dinner. Someone needs to make money to put a roof over your head and food on the table. Grow up and get over it.

      These days if you want to put in the work and make all the sacrifices then either gender can become CEO of a Big 4 bank or partner in a major law firm or a doctor.

      Equality is alive and well. If you don’t agree then you are not looking for equality, you’re looking for a free ride.

    • Ziggy says:

      02:08pm | 18/12/09

      Formersnag - what a woman your Aunt must have been. Thank you for reinforcing my main points. As for Bec well what can one say? Your Aunt no doubt had a credit card in her own name and could spell ‘feminist’. Bec says these are prerequisites to a woman succeeding in life. Now if she had gone to Harvard or Yale she could have gone on to the great things those women aspire to - become the apologist doormats of powerful men. Sorry for the sarcasm but I have spent many years in uniform defending the likes of Bec and I have had enough of them and their ilk - a toast to your Aunt and I hope her genes have been passed on to future generations.

    • Ziggy says:

      02:18pm | 18/12/09

      Formersnag - a toast to your Aunt.Now she was a real woman! Not like this bunch of elitist, all style and no substance, whinging bunch of no hopers we now seem to have everywhere. However, they can all spell feminist which apparently, according to Bec,makes them even more formidable. Once they get their hair, clothes and nails right they will be ready to lead the nation.
      Don’t hold your breathe.

    • Tim says:

      02:33pm | 18/12/09

      i can hear a tiny violin and its playing just for you. Storytime at your grandmother’s house must have been a ball.

    • 6clegs says:

      02:56pm | 18/12/09

      Enjoyed your article. Maybe a few more gels of the 80’s and 90’s ‘got it’ women might stop trying to be ‘one of the boys’ ???

      I can’t help but groan at your ‘‘mid life crisis’’ though… unless you’re planning on dying when you’re 60? (good grief)

      Re sarah palin: if there’s any woman who uses her ‘femininity’ to further her politics? it’s her!!! (as well as her family, drags out Trig when it suits her-which is always!  Suffice to say Pauline Hanson wouldn’t be a flake of dandruff on sarah palins republican expense account shoulder pads- gawd. what a thing to be ‘thankful’ for. hmmm )

      Madonna couldn’t have been a ‘role model’. It would’ve gotten in the way of making her gazillions. (plus, she was too uneducated to have been aware of the real power she had over the then teenage girls… )

      I don’t agree with everything Germaine Greer says, and she doesn’t always agree with me - but I’ll always listen to what she has to say.

      Perhaps you could pass the DVD around to more of your friends?

    • Chase Stevens says:

      02:59pm | 18/12/09

      Feminism what about giving women a choice as to what they did and empowering them. Ziggy and co. you’ve decided to look at one aspect of the how movement (Complaining it seems) and labled the whole shebang as elitist whatever. If you’re feeling emasculated by these ‘elitist, all style and no substance, whining bunch of no hopers ’ then that is your choice.

      Alternatively I’m sure there are a bunch of red states in the US you could move to and feel masculine again.

    • 6clegs says:

      03:42pm | 18/12/09

      How did this become about “Bec” ????

      men making judgments on Feminisim are always good for a laugh, but they’re not usually worth much more.

    • Ludius Quaint says:

      04:02pm | 18/12/09

      Someone call Eric. He hasn’t posted on this thread with his usual misogynistic bile.

    • T.Chong says:

      04:08pm | 18/12/09

      Once again “all women ,all victims all the time,repeat,all women all victims…
      Yes Jayne, women should simply have whatever job they want, regardless of qualification. Plenty of men also work in dead end no where jobs as well, but that doesnt matter if your wearing your victim goggles.
      Jayne , you do know Mad Men is fiction, written by a team, to ellicit an emotional response from the largely female audience.
      It is about as real as Sex and The City.
      But the writers/marketers know that if you label yur potential audience/consumers as poor, sad down trodden victims(except for the token “firey” Red head), then your on a winner.
      So just repeat the ad mens selling point: “all women all victims all the time,repeat, all women all victims…..........,
      It seems to have worked pretty well with todays Punchers.

    • Paul Horn says:

      04:24pm | 18/12/09

      Hey Bec as opposed to good old Hilary the outright liar who pretended she was under fire!!!  Or her equally faithless dog you know the one who swore he never ever had sex with that woman. Lying comes easy to the left as leftist political philosophy is based on deceitfulness and perversity. So next time you start attacking decent honest people try checking a few facts and have a close look at the detritus that offer themselves up as representatives of a twisted and discredited political system you so admire!!

      And just to set the record straight Ms Kearney while all those poor oppressed damsels are slaving away serving all those nasty silk suited bloodsuckers there are millions of men busting their guts in the mines, on offshore oil platforms, in the power, water,aviation, transportation industries etc etc etc. You know all those basic services that keep you fed, warm, mobile, safe, sheltered the list goes on. It is MEN milady that keep the wheels of society turning without which your rights infested lifestyle would come to rapid halt! I know your oh so artisitc attitude would besmirch any male who derives his living from a practical profession but you depend on them more than they will ever need your pathetic politically inspired “artistic” contributions.

      Why after more than 40 years of feminist lies are women not lining up in their hundreds of thousands to work in physically and technically demanding fields??? Instead their preference is for useless Government careers or jobs in the finance industry where they can enjoy lovely office accomodation and lots of trendy lunches and coffees by the beachside with their self indulged girlfriends.  If we want to deny men places on boards because they are overrepresented than surely we should be doing the same thing with tradesmen, engineers, pilots etc etc. Strange how feminists are silent on other professions that are even more disproportionately male. In fact if you were to remove womens contribution to the economy it would be miniscule. Males would take up the slack immediately with nary a glitch. If men were to do the same thing it would be a complete disaster, everything would shut down, power plants, transportation industries, water treatment, sewage plants etc. And guess what you’d be dead in a couple of weeks!!! 

      And Bec while your damned Grandmothers were being forced to quit their jobs my damned Grandfathers were being shot to stinking pieces on the Western front!!! Got one to top that Beck?  HYPOCRITE. How many women caused the deaths of men by giving them white feathers inferring cowardice in the First World War. Sounds like a second sex Bec???  More like a highly priveliged, waited on rights infested species and one that I am sick and disgusted to the eyeballs with having to listen to lying rants about so called “sexism” and inequality. I would have to believe in Leprechauns at the bottom of the Garden before I believed that women were in some way disadvantaged! Why is it that what men call duty women call oppression!!

      So please be quiet and have some damned repect for the average Western male that has provided you with priviliges and rights that any other race of woman would scratch your eyes out to enjoy!

      And you don’t like it ladies I suggest you piss off out of my society and create your own by your ingenuity!!! I for one would be most happy to see the back of the lot of ya!!! Some peace at last!

    • stephen says:

      04:24pm | 18/12/09

      Capitalism values, above all, an adaptive personality. Women are not as adaptive as men, because their personality is more driven by biology. Women are breeders and nest-builders. Their personalities are not suited to risk-taking. If women want equality - and not only in the workplace - more fundamental change has to occur.
      PS And I’m not havin’ kids.

    • Stretch says:

      05:17pm | 18/12/09

      Burt Bacharach: ‘Wives and Lovers’ ? Love it - I’m off to download it now..

    • John says:

      07:27am | 19/12/09

      H of S.A you mentioned “Also something to feed into suicide stats - attempted suicide is pretty much the same for both genders - but there are more male suicides. The explanation for this is men generally use more lethal means of attempted suicide than women.” It goes to show the crisis in mental health facing men and women - thanks for the info - I was aware this was this case but you make an important point of including this fact. And yes, I agree Movember is an important men’s health iniative as is RU Ok day.

    • Amber says:

      11:22am | 19/12/09

      The best show in ages. I missed the whole second series as I kept checking SBS while it appeared on FOXTEL. I wonder where series 3 will pop up. I hope I don’t miss it.

    • Davy says:

      06:07pm | 19/12/09

      The Revolution

      Brenda watched the smoke rise lazily as she applied the burning match to her bra. The artificial fibres gave off an acrid smell of techno incense. She dropped it on the growing pile on the steps of Government house feeling support from the other believers around her. They cushioned her as she divested this archaic symbol of femininity. She chanted with the rest,” All men are bastards”.

      Now her boobs would have no support at all and would sag even worse. Nobody had held them for a long time now anyway.

      Perhaps there was something wrong with them ?

    • Bec says:

      08:23pm | 19/12/09

      You keep using this word ‘elitism’, Ziggy. I do not think it means what you think it means.

    • Lisa says:

      10:07pm | 19/12/09

      Men don’t select for success in the workplace… and many if most women don’t either.
      In my vox pop of one (me) I see that men select for co-operation (with them and their world view), affability and most importantly, availability. Women seem to select for reliability, not money.
      But men are supported by women in the workplace, to be ‘breadwinners’, in a way that most women are not supported by men.
      This male breadwinner’s culture can in many cases bring out the best in men, according to my (highly scientific!) observations. In my own workplace, on a pure gender basis, men often seem less demanding, more reliable in the workplace and more accountable than women. This awareness came as something of a shock to me.

    • cats says:

      11:44pm | 19/12/09

      I haven’t seen Mad Men, and i’m not planning to so i can’t really comment on how the show makes me feel.

      There are a lot of things i embrace about feminism, such as the right to vote, right to work where we want, right to drink in a pub, and so on and so forth. There are also a lot of things i don’t like about it. But that doesn’t mean i’m going to dismiss the entire movement. Guys - please - can you do the same? Can you not dismiss the entire movement because of a few things you don’t like about it? Do you really believe that women shouldn’t be able to vote or work? Do you really believe that we are second class citizens not capable of making decisions for ourselves? We shouldn’t even be discussing this in this day and age. Most of us weren’t even alive during the world wars FFS!

      So can we please just accept the fact that while women deserve equal rights as men, we are not the same - we prefer different things to each other, as pointed out by a commentor that girls like pink, pretty things, and boys like trucks and lego.

      And i see the “plight of men” brigade have already been here once again, bringing up statistics that show men are more disadvantaged than women, of course the article being of a completely different topic - a frigging tv show for gods sake *rolls eyes*

    • dude says:

      06:48am | 20/12/09

      Women wanting equality, they should be women and not pretend to be men.  Whatever that is. Women want what men have, Men don’t want what women have. Stop putting yourselves down girls, you’re great just the way society wants you. Whatever that is. What would we do without those industries and jobs for people they employ if you didn’t make yourselves look good for us.

    • ab says:

      09:26am | 20/12/09

      It shouldn’t be about feminism, it should be about equality. The problem today is a strong belief in, like “dude” said, in the fact that someone should “act” like a man or a woman and not pretend to be something else. For God’s sake, there’s no such thing as “acting like a man” or “acting like a woman”. People should not be concerned about stereotypes but just be an individual. There’s no such thing as acting as a certain gender, there’s only acting as an individual. There’s no way to define what a man is, because all men are different, just as all women are different. The gender differences we know of from science are minor and evolutionary, but they certainly do not extend to what society has created. As for toys, Juju is wrong. It isn’t hard-wired into a child what they should be like, any more than society would have forced them to be, and I would ask how many mothers have been painting their daughter’s room pink when they are born? The parents make that influence. The only think they are hard-wired to have in terms of this issue, are those minor gender differences, which in themselves are generalised and can vary widely. As a man, I won’t be told by our society that I must like all sports because other men, especially Australians, do.

    • bec says:

      03:24pm | 20/12/09

      Paul, your TL;DR post misses the point entirely. You can’t blame a whole biological sex for not fighting in wars or working in dangerous jobs if there were real legal barriers against women working in those jobs in the first place. It doesn’t work like that. You don’t get to blame people for not doing things they were barred from doing in the first place.

    • Lauren says:

      04:31pm | 21/12/09

      Liberal feminism is silencing the inequalities.
      Society has run out of patience for other feminists, believing that women are equal to men by law, we’re just not making the most of it. You ask your average Joe about feminism today, and no doubt in most cases women will be viewed as whingng bitches that don’t know what they want.

    • Eric says:

      05:20am | 22/12/09

      Feminism is incompatible with equality. It will always be about taking away from men and giving to women, and is incapable of change.

      Feminism is an oppressive force that holds down men in areas such as education, employment, health, legal rights and free expression. This is happening in Australia today, not in some hypothetical future.

      Eventually, this oppression may reach a point where too many men are driven out of contributing to society, in which case we might see a collapse similar to that of the Soviet Union.

    • Bec says:

      02:25pm | 22/12/09

      What are these men going to do, Eric? Send in the dogs? Or the bees? Or the dogs with the bees in their mouths so when they bark they chew bees at you??

      If a hunch of pissed off, mediocre old sods who can’t play nice with others want to take their toys and go home, then that doesn’t bother me. Jog on, then.

    • cats says:

      02:53pm | 22/12/09

      Bahaahaha a collapse similar to the Soviet Union, because Eric is feeling sad and angry about not having a girlfriend and (probably) being a virgin.

      So, what do you suppose us modern women do about it then, Eric? (considering none of us were involved in the feminism movement). Stop putting us down and give us some examples on how you think women should act. I’m sure it will give us all a good laugh.


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