The electoral objective of a political party is to win or retain government. This is not the highest aim of a party. Good, competently administered, and visionary programs that uphold human dignity, support individual freedom and assist the nation to be secure and prosper are the reasons why government should be sought. But in purely electoral terms, winning or retaining government is the key objective.

Gotcha. Abbott in Rudd's dying days.

Sometimes this is impossible, due to the competence and popularity of the opposing party, or the travails of one’s own. In these circumstances, the secondary objective of a political party is to not lose badly.

This is because election swings are usually small in Australia’s preferential voting system. A party rarely obtains the landslide witnessed in first-past-the-post nations. However, the cumulative loss of seats in successive elections makes the task of winning again more difficult. An average swing at a subsequent election may be insufficient to achieve victory because of the cumulative deficit of seats.

Eight months ago, even the second objective appeared heroic for the Coalition. Polling in the second half of 2009 suggested that the Liberal and National parties would lose 20 seats, placing government out of reach for a decade or more.

To have turned around that situation in less than a year is a remarkable achievement. Many critics had written off the Coalition after Tony Abbott became leader, arguing that he would lead the Coalition to political oblivion.

Many of the same critics now argue that Labor’s loss of a majority was due to factors associated almost entirely with the government, including Kevin Rudd’s declining popularity and political execution, and the subsequent – ongoing - infighting in the ALP.

For a media obsessed with the theatrics of politics, and with an inclination to treat politicians as celebrities, this is understandable. But these are not the things that influence ordinary Australians. It also misses a significant part of the story about what happened this year.

Of all the factors that lead to political change, three are enduring.

The first is the competence of the government and the effectiveness of the Opposition in pointing out its faults and failings. Unity and discipline are important on both sides. As much has been written about the Labor government’s incompetence, I will concentrate on the Opposition.

Shaped by the experience of the Howard Cabinet, Tony Abbott, as leader, promised his colleagues from the outset to be collegial. He selected a shadow cabinet that reflected the cross-section of the Party. He turned to experienced colleagues. And he listened to candid advice from them.

He also knew that an Opposition must propound an alternative. That is not to oppose everything the government does, for no government is always wrong. The role of the Opposition is to consider any legislation the government proposes. It can support it or reject it. In doing so, it should set out its own principles as to why it believes the proposal is, or is not, in the national interest.

Some people believe that an Opposition should seek to improve the government’s legislation. Hence the expression ‘governing from Opposition’. The problem with this approach is that it can involve the Opposition compromising its own principles, and often sending a mixed message to the community.

Much commentary has focussed on the success of this first task, with the popularity of Kevin Rudd in freefall in response to the Coalition’s clear policies on the ETS and the mining tax; the panicked response from his colleagues; and Julia Gillard’s subsequent rush to an election before obtaining the advantage of incumbency.  But this alone didn’t result to the loss of a majority by Labor. In 1998, 2001 and 2004, the then Coalition government was also trailing significantly in the polls, but remained disciplined and united, and was re-elected.

Abbott’s appeal as an ordinary Australian bloke and family man, and his plain-speak compared to Gillard’s slogans, were factors, as were the second and third key issues that are crucial for a good electoral result.

Electoral change requires a credible alternative as well as a tired or unpopular government. This means alternative policies, an alternative platform and vision.

Beginning with Julie Bishop heading policy development, and then continuing under myself and Andrew Robb, the Coalition over three years engaged in the arduous, time-consuming, and little remarked-upon task of reviewing all its policies. This involved countless meetings with shadow ministers and backbench committees, openness to new ideas, a rigorous criterion for the acceptance or rejection of proposals, and a disciplined expenditure review process.

Proposals were not automatically accepted because they came from a former Cabinet Minister, or rejected because they were suggested by a new backbencher. Rather they were judged on their merits in meeting the challenges facing Australia.

As Robert Menzies once observed, good politics reflect good policies. For years, we watched various State Opposition parties fail to develop and argue policies. The pattern repeated itself time and again. The new Opposition would spend a term bemoaning its loss, often suggesting that it had been robbed of the election.

There would be an assumption that falling popularity would eventually cause the government to lose. While true in the long run, it usually meant that the Coalition remained in opposition for many more years than it would have been otherwise.

As Menzies said: “Opposition gives more time for study and thought. It must be regarded as a great constructive period in the life of a party; properly considered, not a period in the wilderness, but a period of preparation of the high responsibilities which you hope will come.”

Thirdly, the direction of the economy always is significant. The former Labor Member for Port Adelaide, Rod Sawford, propounded a theory first developed by his grandfather to explain the outcome of Australian elections. Briefly it relies on three major economic indicators: unemployment, inflation and interest rates.
If two or more of these indicators fell over the electoral cycle, the government was returned. If two or more rose, the government was defeated.

Since the 2007 election, unemployment has risen but interest rates have fallen. The third indicator, inflation, is slightly higher than it was at the previous election. This predicted a very close election, regardless of who was the Prime Minister.

A faltering government; a politically confident, policy-driven opposition; and uncertain economic conditions remain the enduring factors in political change. They also reveal why the recent election was so close.

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142 comments

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    • Against the Man says:

      07:08am | 30/08/10

      I have to say based on this election result Gillard got one thing right - this government has lost its way indeed. What she left out was that she was a large part of that government and played a part in all the chaos. I feel sorry for Gillard, a pathetic figure struggling to hold on to power while not realising that if you have to work this hard to hold on than it must be a sign to let go and move on, pride my dear Gillard has left the building…...........

    • Faz says:

      09:23am | 30/08/10

      Again, such comments are OK but they only see one side.

      What part did Abbott play in the development of policies by Nelson and Turnbull? What part did he play in the destablisation of Nelson and Turnbull? What part did he have to play in the development of Work Choices which he has now dumped?

      In a period where there are very few written rules—including in the constitution—it seems to me that a ‘softly softly’ approach is more likely to win the day even if you look stupid on QandA. Abbott and the coalition seem to be doing all they can to piss off the independents. Of course that may be a strategy, but it’s more likely to be bad management.

    • Rob r Charteris says:

      11:11am | 30/08/10

      Faz says:09:23am; You are right it is bad management, but you’ll see them flip flop back to save their scrawny asses and call it strategy. Either that or they will blame someone else which is their true to form approach when they are caught between a rock and a hard place. Like rAbbott excuse yesterday on Meet the Press fobbing it off as old mates talking to each other… that was a good laugh Ha…Ha…Ha… or in rAbbott’s case A…A…A…

    • acotrel says:

      09:18pm | 30/08/10

      ‘He also knew that an Opposition must propound an alternative. That is not to oppose everything the government does, for no government is always wrong. The role of the Opposition is to consider any legislation the government proposes.’

      Did Abbott ever know the difference between ‘opposition’ and ‘obstruction? Do you believe that now the election is past everything is hunky dory.  Steven Fielding is the most powerful person in Australia for the next six months!

    • Hugh Jarse says:

      07:14am | 30/08/10

      What a tangled web we weave when we waffle whys and wherefores of why they or we were unable to win.This is more likely the reason Indies have risen to be the new power, the spinners have tweaked and twirled the same old lines from a Menzian or Whitlamic history no longer relevant to modern Australia.

    • Phil says:

      08:17am | 30/08/10

      I see you took you name from Queen Julia

    • acotrel says:

      09:31pm | 30/08/10

      Why labor lost:
      ‘it’s just a great big tax on everything’!

      Forget the GFC - ‘debt levels, de bt levels’!
      Peter Garrett is responsible for the deaths in the roof insulation programme because he is responsible for controlling exercise of the state OHS legislation, and the state purchasing authorities!  Julia Gillard is responsible for the massive waste in the BER ‘rorts’ , which amounted t o 6% of the total funding for the projects, (regardless of the fact that most commercia l contracts lose way more than that, but we expect better from the government).  Kevin Rudd is responsible for allowing the invasion of Australia to happen.  An alarming 3% of immigrants were asylum seeker boat people.  The Liberal Party people are full of excrement, but brilliant politicians!.

    • Steve says:

      07:16am | 30/08/10

      As of now, Julia Gillard is still Prime Minister and will remain so until the parliament sits and a vote is taken. Everything else you have written is hot air.

    • MarK says:

      08:15am | 30/08/10

      Oh you must have missed the bit about polling suggesting a 20 loss to the opposition during Rudd’s short reign.

      Read it again. It is quite good and without hyperbole.

    • Rob r Charteris says:

      09:02am | 30/08/10

      MarK says:08:15am; “a 20 loss” of what? missing a word or two there Mr word perfect genius

    • MarK says:

      12:20pm | 30/08/10

      yep missed seats….sorry Rob I defer to your great intellect.

      How will I live myself…...oh look a puppy.

    • Dash says:

      01:19pm | 30/08/10

      Wrong Steve, Gillard is caretaker. LNP 73 seats, ALP 72. Labor represent 36% of the voting population with nearly 90% of voters in the three aligned inependent seats rejecting the ALP. No matter what happens, that hardly sounds like a ringing endorsement. A one term government without a mandate, without ministers in key portfolios, with two key ministers resigning in protest, with backroom thugs and union heavies running the show, a self confessed socialist feminist as figure head and with a sacked first term PM. That pretty much sums up the ALP.

    • Faz says:

      04:27pm | 30/08/10

      @ Dash

      Depends how you count, doesn’t it? Tony Crook (WA Nat) is about as much part of the Coalition as Adam Bandt is of Labour, if anything Bandt is MORE committed to Labor than Crook is to the Coalition. Effectively it’s a dead heat.

      No party has a ‘ringing endorsement’.

      To paraphrase your own words just to prove that spin is spin:

      ‘A no -erm government without a mandate, without ministers in all portfolios, with backroom thugs and right wing heavies running the show, fragmented and unruly minor coalition members, a self confessed liar as figure head and with two sacked leaders since the last election. That pretty much sums up the Coalition.’

    • Dash says:

      05:36pm | 30/08/10

      Hi Faz, may I direct you to the Australian Electrol Commission. I quoted their count and they tend to be regarded as the official people in these matters. With Labor polling only 36% of the primary vote and the LNP 43%, that’s hardly a dead heat! You stretch the truth a bit I’m afraid. When was the last LNP to only serve a single term in government? When was the last LNP to sack their PM let alone do it in the first term? I believe the LNP didn’t have ministers resigning in protest of a political assasination! And don’t get started on lies because I can rattle off about a hundred ALP lies from the ‘07 election campaign not to mention a list of failed policy.

    • Faz says:

      07:25am | 30/08/10

      The electoral objective of a political party is to win or retain government. This is not the highest aim of a party.

      On that basis the headline could just as legitimately have read ‘How the Coalition failed to gain a mandate to govern’.

      ... it should set out its own principles as to why it believes the proposal is, or is not, in the national interest.

      Or, in the case of WorkChoices (if that wasn’t an Abbott ‘principle’ before the election, the word has no meaning), dump it so that it doesn’t become an electoral liability. Or in the case of paid parental leave (if opposition to that wasn’t an Abbott ‘principle’ before the election, the word has no meaning) take it up on the fly (collegial? LOL) to gain an electoral advantage.

      The notion of ‘principles’ applying to the main parties is usually dodgy, but it’s particularly so in this election. The only ‘principle’ that mattered was polling day.

      “Opposition gives more time for study and thought. It must be regarded as a great constructive period in the life of a party; properly considered, not a period in the wilderness, but a period of preparation of the high responsibilities which you hope will come.”

      Even hinting that this could describe the Oppositions time since Rudd was elected is breathtaking. How many leaders got stabbed in the back by the back room operators? How many in the LIberal caucus voted for Turnbull?

      The bottom line is that the election resulted in no mandate given. It’s a little like penalty shootouts in soccer. The winner can scrape through in a way that is more down to luck than talent and it can often seem so unjust. But them’s the rules.

      Don’t get ahead of yourself Kevin. Save the gloating for when you’ve won and, even then, a little humilty might be a better look given that niether your guys or the other guys are big on the ‘mandate’ stakes.

    • Seano says:

      07:46am | 30/08/10

      Yeah but Kev you didn’t win one either so that divine right to rule attitude is well out of place. Voters are obviously p’d off with both parties and fair enough considering they way both parties have set out with a primary goal of power rather than providing good government.

    • work"choices" says:

      09:01am | 30/08/10

      who are you and what have you done to Seano?

    • Rob r Charteris says:

      07:57am | 30/08/10

      “Good, competently administered, and visionary programs that uphold human dignity, support individual freedom ” hows the court case going Mr Andrews, feeling a little screwed yet??? hehehe I guess the retirement plan is looking a little shakey. I would not think I am the only one that thinks you deserve whatever is served up to you. You also should pay back the wasted tax payer dollars spent on ruining that doctors life.

    • Dr Hanneef says:

      10:28am | 31/08/10

      I second that

    • monkeytypist says:

      08:06am | 30/08/10

      So Andrews is saying the Coalition won on policy now?  What about the refusal to cost things through Treasury?  How was that a victory for policy?

      The only narrative here is how Tony Abbott predicted a “famous victory” for the Coalition only to watch the vast bulk of the anti-government swing head to the Greens.  What does that say about the Coalition’s electability?

      Either produce 76 seats in the House, or this is all so much bluster.

    • Rosie says:

      08:10am | 30/08/10

      An article from The Australian - the reasons why they backed Kevin07 and today have endorsed Tony Abbott.

      http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/misreading-their-mandate/story-e6frg71x-1225907999281

      During the Kevin07 Govt the Coalition didn’t fail to deliver Labor misread the electorate and misunderstood the mandate Kevin07 obtained in 2007.

      Labor went into 2010 election with nothing to defend. The GFC you may say but any govt of the day would have done exactly the same thing only that the stimulus would have been spent wisely to keep the ecomony going.

    • Rob r Charteris says:

      08:42am | 30/08/10

      Rosie says:08:10am; “the stimulus would have been spent wisely"and how would have they done that, what a simplistic piece of dribble. It always so lame to be posturing in hindsight. Another thing is at least the Gillard government is acting with maturity during this negotiating process. The way members of the Coalition are acting towards these Independents with these phone calls, smear campaigns and bullying tactic goes to show they really are not ready to govern and why they didn’t get a mandate to govern. The Coalition are demonstrating they are simply are not mature enough to govern.

    • Nicole says:

      09:05am | 30/08/10

      ‘Another thing is at least the Gillard government is acting with maturity during this negotiating process.’ Hahaha. Thanks Rob, you’ve given me my first laugh for the day.

    • Rob r Charteris says:

      09:26am | 30/08/10

      Nicole says:09:05am; Please elaborate…

    • Evan Findlay says:

      11:26am | 30/08/10

      Rosie,
      The coaltion would have procrastinated to the point of recession by which time no amount of fiscal stimulation would save the country from a deep and prolonged recession. You only have to look at the USA to realise that stimulation whilst in recession is a waste of money.

    • Gregg says:

      11:53am | 30/08/10

      A couple of phone calls and one at least from a ” mate ” and that was Windsor’s terminology hardly makes for smear or bullying Rob.
      You need to grow up a bit yourself it’d seem.

    • Dash says:

      01:31pm | 30/08/10

      Rob - The LNP won more seats, and the ALP only had 36% of the primary vote. Sounds like the ALP have less of a mandate to me! When you consider the ALP’s starting majority, the deal with the greens and the more funding they had at their disposal, they were hopeless and got their bums smacked! Where’s the glowing endorsement for your ramshackle pack of failures? How many policy failures and broken election promises from 07 is it now Rob? I’ve lost count. Quick, here comes the next straw to clutch.

    • Northern Steve says:

      03:42pm | 30/08/10

      Rob, I agree with Nicole,
      Sitting down with them, all grins, and handing them a folder spelling out how Labor will work for their electorate is a little bit paternalistic.  Don’t you think the Independents are able to work out for themselves how each policy will affect them?

      Not defending the shenanigans from the Liberal back bench, but Gillard’s efforts just seem a little bit too plastic and saccharine for me.

    • Tedd says:

      08:22am | 30/08/10

      It would be good to see a supplementary article from Ken Andrews titled

      “How the Coaltion lost its mandate to govern” ...

      .. with reference to the end of its period in Govt and its lack of “good, competently administered, and visionary programs that uphold human dignity, support individual freedom and assist the nation to be secure and prosper are the reasons why government should be sought”

    • ibast says:

      08:29am | 30/08/10

      Between those that noted they would prefer Labor and those that noted they didn’t want the either, you have to conclude that the Coalition not only didn’t gain the mandate, but has less claim to government than the labor party does.  So even this attempt at using a moral argument the coalition shouldn’t win.

    • Sophie says:

      01:04pm | 30/08/10

      Well said. 

      I’m ashamed I’m in Kevin Andrews electorate, the majority are retirees who believe all of the scare tactics :(

    • thatmosis says:

      08:29am | 30/08/10

      Joolia Gillrudd is not the Prime Minister she is the care taker Prime Minister who hasnt got a mandate for anything. A party that loses so many seats in an election after just one term must realise that the people think they are losers. Sure the Liberal/Natiuonals didnt get a majority to deliver Government in their own right but they collected a swag of ex Labor seats. Labor has lost the right to Govern and only the most rusted on Labor Supporter would believe anything else. Labor failed at everything that mattered to the Australian people and in the process plunged us into another Labor induced debt but this time added deaths, destroyed homes. losses of businesses and more backflips than the Circus De Soilel. The stimulous package was annecessary finacial burden on the Tax payer and Australia would have felt some pain but nothing like the pain we are going to feel trying to pay back labor Largess. The Stimulous Package was a spend athon on useless items that would have been better off being pumped into things like our hospitals, transport and schools instead of the pockets of the commercial interests of this country. We were well placed to ride it out because of the Budget Surplus left by the Howard Gopvernment which Labor managed to give away in a few weeks of madness.  If this what people think is good government then I feel sorry for them and hope that this kind of thing will never be repeated in Australia in my lifetime.

    • T.Chong says:

      08:39am | 30/08/10

      All well and good, but the people still did NOT vote Abbott in.
      Thats the reality.

    • Rob r Charteris says:

      08:55am | 30/08/10

      thatmosis says:08:29am; Gee and you snivelling lib’s go on about ALP supporters spelling mistakes and grammar look at this lovely bit of spelling “Joolia Gillrudd” and “Largess” and its “Circus De Soleil” not “Circus De Soilel”. Your making me look good!

    • Rob r Charteris says:

      08:58am | 30/08/10

      T.Chong says:08:39am; Careful you might “Stimulous” him to say something else lol

    • fairsfair says:

      10:24am | 30/08/10

      Rob, it is actually “cirque”... not “circus”.

      But circus is exactly what this is.

      thatmosis brings up valid points, but you know what - so does T.Chong. The coalition failed to capitalise on the failures of the labor government - but argue all you want - those failures are there. Argue all you want - the coalition has its failings and its succeses and both parties failed to win outright majority.

      Why don’t you boys go back to your corner until we actually have a decision? Then perhaps we can all move on and work on our spelling together.

      If the only rebuttal you have to valid argument is to attack someone on their language skills - don’t bother thanks.

    • Scarneck says:

      10:32am | 30/08/10

      I sometimes wish the Government had done absolutely nothing (as the LNP wanted) in relation to the GFC. Leading economists from around the world said Australia got it right (as compared to other nations) yet all the armchair economists from around Australia say the ALP got it wrong, go figure. The world is heading for another recession so let’s hope the LNP and the independents are ready to guide Australia through, what I believe, will be far worse economically than what 2007/8 brought us. The USA is currently on one massive slippery slide to economic oblivion, the UK has to cut government spending by up to 25%, unprecedented government cuts are being seen elsewhere in Europe and most of the worlds leading share markets are edgy to say the least.  The confidence I have in Barnaby Joyce and like ilk helping to guide Australia through GFC2 is sadly lacking, in fact, even the thought scares me!

    • Rob r Charteris says:

      11:04am | 30/08/10

      fairsfair says:10:24am; “If the only rebuttal you have to valid argument is to attack someone on their language skills - don’t bother thanks.” Only lobbing one back from the many I have recieved, all fair in love and war.

      Btw, cirque works back in their homeland Quebec, Canada. But we’re english speaking here ;  ) and Soilel still wont work in Quebec.

    • Gregg says:

      12:02pm | 30/08/10

      The truth Chongy is that Julia and Tony were both elected by their electorates.
      And what the people have decided is that Labor lost their way sufficiently well that they cannot govern in their own right.
      If the independents follow what most people in their electorates deem to be appropriate in regard to major party support then the Liberals will be able to form government with the independents support.
      No ammount of semantics by the likes of you, Rob or other rusty Laborites can change those facts.
      All we are seeing for the moment is play time.

    • Dash says:

      01:35pm | 30/08/10

      T. Chong - I like the reality that only 36% of the people wanted Labor, better!

    • andrew says:

      08:33am | 30/08/10

      Tony Abbott said in one of his speeches that the Labor Government was the worst in Australias history.  Based purely on that - Liberal should have won in a landside.  Why didnt they?  Perhaps one of these or a combination of all, Labor are not the worst government in history, the Coalition is perhaps the worst opposition in the history of Australia, or the Australian public just dont care for either side of politics any more.  Personally, i didnt want to vote in this election as neither major side of politics were deserving.  Labor have stuffed up a lot.  The Coalition were negative for most of the last three years, and to some degree in the campain.  Tony Abbott is not PM Material - I find it hard to actually listen to him, he always seems really nervous or doesnt want to be there.  Not what we really want as the leader and our voice on the world stage.

    • Gregg says:

      12:12pm | 30/08/10

      That’s laughable Andrew for you have
      ” The Coalition were negative for most of the last three years, and to some degree in the campain.  Tony Abbott is not PM Material “
      The most negative approach of the campaign was Labor on Work Choices and Abbott himself as not being fit to lead!
      The same guy has more ministerial time than either Rudd or Gillard put together.
      Sure the Liberals came out with what they would have to reverse on the mess Labor had created and that can sound negative but it is only so true that reversal of what has been done by Labor is necessary to consolidate before better things can happen.
      Most unfortunately, too many Australian people it seems know of no other way to live than spend like there’s no tomorrow.
      A lot then fail to understand why home ownership is beyond their grasp.

      Get past how a person speaks and look at which direction the country was being taken in and you may find something of more substance.

    • Trjn says:

      01:39pm | 30/08/10

      @Gregg, the Coalition’s campaign was practically all negative.

      “Sure the Liberals came out with what they would have to reverse on the mess Labor had created and that can sound negative but it is only so true that reversal of what has been done by Labor is necessary to consolidate before better things can happen.”

      What mess? The debt? Experts have praised the government for how they handled the GFC and somehow the Coalition has turned this into a negative with their statements like “today, Labor has borrowed another $100 million.” Yes, not all of the money was spent as wisely as it could have, but the implications of the Liberal attack ads was that billions was wasted on the school buildings project and thousands of homes are at risk from the insulation project. Which just simply isn’t true.

      So, taking a look at the main pieces of the Coalition campaign, you have the 4 point action plan: 1. Will end the debt, 2. Stop the waste, 3. Stop the new taxes, 4. Stop the boats.

      1. Abbot gave no indication that he would be able to pay back the debt sooner than Labor, also this is an attack on the fact that Labor has accumulated some debt due to circumstances beyond their control.

      2. Stop the waste is a straight up attack based largely on them deliberately misleading people into thinking that the waste was more than it actually is.

      3. Stop new taxes is again an attack based on the mining tax but is also a lie because Abbott planned that nifty 1.5% tax to pay for his paid parental leave scheme.

      4. Stopping the boats implies that under Labor the boats have become a bigger issue and that Labor is doing nothing to address it.

      This isn’t about some deluded mentality of people that you must constantly spend, the Coalition latched onto the other deluded side of the coin which thinks that there is never a good time to spend. Building infrastructure now, when times are tough is a good thing. It provides jobs and puts us in a better place in the future.

    • Gregg says:

      02:44pm | 30/08/10

      So Trjn, re
      ”  Labor has borrowed another $100 million.” Yes, not all of the money was spent as wisely as it could have, but the implications of the Liberal attack ads was that billions was wasted on the school buildings project and thousands of homes are at risk from the insulation project. Which just simply isn’t true. “
      And is that $100M each day or has Wayne got another figure you’d like to use?
      How many homes that had insulation put in have actually been inspected to make sure there are no more potential home fire situations?
      You can call it unwise expenditure which is essentially wastage!
      As for experts, you do know of the definition don’t you? and there can always be many diverse views on economy management.
      1. The debt does have to be repaid and certainly it’ll take time but why would you believe promisies from a government that keep borrowing - a bit like saying I’m going to cut up the credit card but not just yet!
      And the spending splurge was totally Labor’s decision.
      Trouble is, we all have to pay for it.
      2. The waste has been of several billions and so isn’t that enough!
      3. Yes, the mining tax which as not a temporary measure might just help to kill off some of what is our best international trading industry and which quite likely had more to do with keeping Australia from recessionary figures than any stimulus.
      4. Well what have Labor done for the boats but remove the TPVs and in doing so send the signal that the welcome mat is out!
      From 2002 - 2008 numbers of boats were from about 1 up to 6 or 7 and once the TPVs were revoked, up they shot.
      How many are too many?
      Already problems with where to house them and even 150 people smugglers whose trials will just clog the judicial system and be another cost burden, some now causing trouble in Darwin.
      Why should people with money to pay people smugglers be encouraged to displace genuine refugees?
      And despite Senator Evans claiming there is no queue, how about the 3M refugees in centres from Iran across to India and another 12M globally!
      Yep, take a more unblinkered look and you might just see that there were/are many bad policy outcomes

    • Trjn says:

      03:28pm | 30/08/10

      @Gregg:
      “And is that $100M each day or has Wayne got another figure you’d like to use?”

      The problem with that figure is that it implies that Labor is constantly borrowing but gives no indication how that figure compares to our economy. $100 million sounds like a big figure, with a debt of approx $365bn , but the government revenue is approx $325bn. Making that number appear not that bad.

      Throwing around big numbers with no justification makes them completely meaningless.

      “How many homes that had insulation put in have actually been inspected to make sure there are no more potential home fire situations?”

      No doubt a reasonably large amount, that doesn’t mean that thousands of homes are at risk, as the attack ads claimed though.

      “You can call it unwise expenditure which is essentially wastage!”
      I said there was waste, but also that “Stop the waste is a straight up attack based largely on them deliberately misleading people into thinking that the waste was more than it actually is.” Having done nothing to stimulate the economy would have been a greater waste.

      Everything else you claim, like several billions of waste and the amount of boats “shooting up” will need to actually be justified. Show me the numbers, show me something that wasn’t just a sound bite during the election campaign.

      Although I should point out, the people paying the people smugglers are paying them with ridiculous loans with the people smugglers. If they actually had the money, they would have used one of the many other ways to seek asylum which don’t involve being crammed into a boat for a ridiculous amount of time.

    • Christian Real says:

      08:37am | 30/08/10

      Kevin Andrews
      The lack of respect by two Liberal MP’s towards the Independents indicate that the Liberal party is unfit to govern, now or even in the future.
      Also there is the matter of 3000 pre-polling votes tampered with by an AEC employee in the seat of Boothby S.A,where votes from two sealed boxes were removed and placed in a third box.
      The story in News.com.au “Labor makes claims of vote-tampering in Boothby.”,written by Daniel Wills, political Reporter, from ‘Adelaide Now’, on August 27,2010,3.04PM:
      Here is some paragraphs from that story:
      “It is claimed votes from two sealed boxes were removed and placed in a third box.”
      “It is unclear what was done with the votes when they were removed and if any were changed or destroyed.”
      “Subsequently, I was informed by the Australian electoral Commission that following an internal audit,an AEC employee had now admitted to improperly dealing with approximately 3000 ballot papers and that numerous potential breaches of the Commonwealth Electoral Act had occurred.”
      Kevin Andrews, in fairness to those voters in Boothby, the Liberal incumbent Andrew Southcott should stand down,untill either a full investigation into this matter has been done, or another election for the seat of Boothby called.
      If ballot papers are misappropriated in the seat of Boothby, it could be possible that ballot papers have been misappropriated and gone missing in other seats and electorates as well.
      Perhaps, a fresh, new election for all the seats and electorates should be called immediately.

    • Gregg says:

      12:23pm | 30/08/10

      Where have I heard all that Christian and Moving Forward together.
      Really Christian, you’re in desperation stakes now aren’t you?
      A phone call from a ” mate ” the description by Windsor and then one MP playing silly buggers and he texted Oateshott after his wife had hung up and for all we know another MP familiar enough with Oateshott who has already shown he has a penchance for some drama and 15 minutes of fame.

      The AEC btw are already seeking legal advice on the moving of votes from one box to another or whatever it was and do you really think this would have been able to be done in back rooms out of sight all over the country, let alone in one counting station.

      I’d be letting the facts be revealed before you get too carried away in your way of moving forward but it is quite understandable how desperate times vreate desperate measures.

      Meanwhile, it’ll be up to the AEC to determine action including the declaration of votes/the election invalid or declaring the poll.

    • Daryl says:

      01:43pm | 30/08/10

      Christian, the lack of respect by the ALP towards the electorate as highlighted by the blatant waste and rorting of taxpayers money on failed schemes, appears to have resulted in the people finding the ALP unfit to govern!

    • Northern Steve says:

      03:51pm | 30/08/10

      Christian,
      The tampering of votes is unacceptable.  So far, the only claim is the mishandling of votes, also unacceptable, but no claims of tampered votes yet.
      Calling for a new nationwide election over a small number of non-critical votes in one seat is a massive over-reaction.
      From what I have read, the votes in question favoured the Libs by about 300.  The lib candidate has a margin of about 2000+, so even excluding all those votes will not change the outcome.  There has also been no suggestion of any political bias in the mishandling.

      As already said, sounds like desperation to me.  A bit like the ALP claiming that four winning LNP candidates from Qld should be stood down because they were serving councilors at the time of the election.  The ALP seem to have conveniently forgotten that at least two of their (losing) candidates are existing Mayors (Whitsunday & Townsville).  Funny this wasn’t a problem until they lost these electorates.

      Seems the ALP want to replay the election in court.

    • Holly says:

      08:42am | 30/08/10

      Mr Andrews,  I see one of the claims against you in the Dr Hanif case is “abuse of power” - and we all witnessed it in bucketloads during the coalition regime - our soldiers sent to war in Iraq with no proof of weapons of mass destruction, the wheat board scandal, Workchoices, the Intervention, inhumane treatment of asylum seekers - a government full of hubris and lacking decency.  A political leader who describes homelessness as a “lifestyle choice” also lacks that decency in my book.

    • Jim says:

      10:44am | 30/08/10

      We sent a token force to Iraq, along with the rest of the US allies. Did they find anything? Only a dictator who was executed by his own people…the wheat board did nothing that a private enterprise business wouldn’t do to gain a contract. Workchoices…loved by small business, despised by the 30,000 or so trade union slugs, pushed as a massive scare campaign by Labor Pty Ltd. The intervention -so you were happy with children being raped and subjected to horrific assaults bought on by alcohol abuse? I think you should give up the latte for a day and spend some time on Palm Island, or in Doomadgee. Inhumane treatment of blah blah….oh please, someone pass me a bucket. But I laughed loudly when you accuse the Libs of being “full of hubris” and “lacking decency”...from the supporter of a party who use every dirty trick in the book to gain a vote, then kill off their leader when people start waking up to their lies….haha

    • Dash says:

      01:58pm | 30/08/10

      Hey Holly, whatever happened to “no child shall live in poverty”. It would appear the LNP’s asylum seeker policy is so “inhumane”, the ALP has adopted the same policy. Yes workchoices meant the erosion of union power but not everyone swallowed union propaganda. The intervention saved aboriginal lives. Compare that with all of the lies and non-delivery from the 07 election campaign not to mention the rorting by Labor backed builders with their noses in the school scheme taxpayers trough. The deaths caused by the insulation fiasco was “the caring ALP” was it Holly? Btw, one of the ALPs election promises from 07 was the “war on homelssness” yet homeless numbers increased under Labor’s term. How terribly decent! And of course the political execution of Rudd was very decent wasn’t it Holly!

    • R T Ficial says:

      08:42am | 30/08/10

      Actually, I for one, am enjoying this debacle.  the pros outweigh the cons, every sound thinking (now there’s an oxymoron) pollie is weighing in for his or her chop and there still is not a result. Considering the possible outcome - not including the Senate results, I believe we are living in interesting times!

    • Shane From Melbourne says:

      08:43am | 30/08/10

      “Good, competently administered, and visionary programs that uphold human dignity, support individual freedom and assist the nation to be secure and prosper” Where the heck you going to find that from any party in Australia? All I see middle class welfare crack pushers…..

    • Andrew says:

      08:44am | 30/08/10

      Bring on another election this situation is BS. and scrap compulsory voting!

    • fairsfair says:

      09:29am | 30/08/10

      This little thing we all just had was called an election. And just because the results do not suit all and sundry does not mean that we have the right to just do a best of three. I am clearly for the coalition to form government, but I would rather see Labor returned to power and risk further grinding this country into the dirt than see the electoral process be treated with contempt. Australians have spoken - and though we mumbled what we wanted - we have to interpret it as best as possible. If that leads to another elction in a years time due to instability, so be it. But we have to let this run its course and not just ignore the result and have a re-do because we don’t think it will work. It is sitautions like these that pick out the deadwood in parliament. People will be retiring “to spend more time with family” left right and centre and we might just see the so desired change that we all want. Perhaps the issue is not with the system, but with the people and we should be thankful for situations like these as some true colours are definately comeing out (on both sides). If we miss this opportunity - maybe the next step is a french style revolution. The attitude of our political system has to change and I think that this could be the platform to enable that shift.

      I’m BigKev excited.

    • Chris L says:

      06:14pm | 30/08/10

      Well said fairsfair. This might indeed be the shakeup needed to make politicians remember who their bosses are…. maybe.

    • Polly Waffle says:

      08:48am | 30/08/10

      The trouble with Parliament is that most of the seats are full of Liberals and Labor.  This hung Parliament is a breath of fresh air and if Andrews can’t see that then he should retire.

    • Sam says:

      12:32pm | 30/08/10

      Polly Waffle says:08:48am | 30/08/10

      “The trouble with Parliament is that most of the seats are full of Liberals and Labor.  This hung Parliament is a breath of fresh air and if Andrews can’t see that then he should retire.”

      I agree with you, but Andrews should not only retire, he should be jailed for his abuse of power in attacking Doctor Haneef for nothing more than political gain.  Ditto Downer over AWB (and poor taste in pantyhose). Ditto Howard for war crimes in invading Iraq. Ditto all senior Lib members who think it is ok to abuse kids over the phone.

    • Aitch B says:

      03:09pm | 30/08/10

      Ditto Rudd and the parliamentary Labor party for supporting Howard’s decision to go to Iraq 100%, Sam. Let’s not forget Kev’s “indisputible evidence” speech. And if you dispute that, check out Hansard…. it’s all there.

    • Rebe says:

      08:54am | 30/08/10

      A great article with factual information - we watch T.V. constantly here.
      The fact that half a million more voters cast for Abbott and the Coalition, with the majority in three electorates that went to the Independents wanting Coalition and with Labor’s tie-up to the Greens - and added to this, the fact that many did not understand the policy of the Greens and just placed votes for them as an alternative or because they could not make up their minds -  that the position in a nutshell.  Basically, Coalition has the favor of the majority of the electorate.  Why does not Labor and Julia Gillard bow to this instead of desperately and despotically clinging to power?  Surely someone can legally intervene to bring this determination into the formation of a Government?

    • Scarneck says:

      11:07am | 30/08/10

      Rebe, here’s another fact…Our elections are preferential and not FPTP therefore on current AEC results the ALP are preferred by the majority of voters. The emphasis should be on ‘prefer’ as against ‘want’

    • Biteme says:

      08:55am | 30/08/10

      Give me a break! I didn’t vote Liberal for the “Charisma” of Tony Abbott, or the so called “competent” opposition. The opposition had nothing for anyone. I voted Liberal only because stupid Labor stuffed up so much. Don’t glorify yourselves so much that you actually believe you are competent. Liberals are just the best of the worst. Nothing to be proud of!

    • Jeff says:

      02:02pm | 30/08/10

      It’s easy to give advice from the sidelines. Run yourself Biteme. Give us the leadership we deserve!
      The fact is that the prosperity we enjoy in Oz today is largely due to the previous Coalition government.

    • Shane From Melbourne says:

      05:23pm | 30/08/10

      @Jeff- Actually the prosperity we enjoy is largely due to China wanting to buy our stuff and being willing to lend us money for our overinflated property market, but never let the facts get in the way of a good story….

    • Benny says:

      09:23am | 30/08/10

      The ALP and Gillard have made a mess of things, there is more drama here than on the TV show ‘Neighbours’. The PM needs to wake up to reality and face up to the fact that she and her party have failed.

    • Phil says:

      09:26am | 30/08/10

      Good work - getting a ultra consevative Liberal MP to preach to us “How LABOR lost its mandate to govern”. Maybe you should get him to write another article on “How KEVIN’07 stole the ‘07 election from the Liberal”, and put it on the headlines.

    • JulesG says:

      09:33am | 30/08/10

      Well, what can I say? This article is written by a right wing conservative politician and displays the obligatory bias. As such, it lacks all credibility and objectivity.  It has to be said that the conservatives have lost their mandate to govern too. The vote is equally bad and good for both sides and is a protest in my view against both major parties.

    • Gregg says:

      12:59pm | 30/08/10

      Well Jules, first of all the conservatives can hardly have lost their mandate to govern when they were not governing.
      The loss of their majority by Labor is surely an indication that they did lose their mandate, that being one word in the heading though not repeated in the article and certainly not as a claim by KA.

      Move past the disappointment and see if you can find some meaning in some good words, eg.
      ” Shaped by the experience of the Howard Cabinet, Tony Abbott, as leader, promised his colleagues from the outset to be collegial. He selected a shadow cabinet that reflected the cross-section of the Party. He turned to experienced colleagues. And he listened to candid advice from them.

      He also knew that an Opposition must propound an alternative. That is not to oppose everything the government does, for no government is always wrong. The role of the Opposition is to consider any legislation the government proposes. It can support it or reject it. In doing so, it should set out its own principles as to why it believes the proposal is, or is not, in the national interest. ”

    • JulesG says:

      05:32pm | 30/08/10

      Gregg - The conservatives have no mandate to govern either, should they be asked to govern, that was my point. They are no more able to govern than labour. Any conservative politician that is a product of the Howard years is shonky, undemocratic manipulative and devisive. I think the Howard government the absolute worst in 200 years, so you’ve lost me there.

    • Rose says:

      10:23am | 02/09/10

      “Shaped by the experience of the Howard Cabinet”...not something to be proud of.
      A government losing the mandate to govern was demonstrated in 2007, when Howard was turfed out before the sun went down.  What we have now is a kick in the pants for the government, no ringing endorsement for the opposition and a handful of independents trying to make it work. The quality of government over the next three years will rest largely on the ability of a minority government to negotiate. Abbott, since the election, has proved he thinks he above negotiating and therefore is unfit to try and lead this country.

    • Jim says:

      10:11am | 30/08/10

      It’s a tad rich having obvious Labor supporters labelling the Libs as bullies…I mean, you support a party whose bullying and intimidation via their trade union comrades knows no bounds. And as for allegations of vote rigging (Christian Real)...come on! The unions have been commiting electoral fraud on behalf of the Labor Party for a hundred years! Last election in the Parramatta area there were over 5000 votes MORE than the population…and that’s in one seat alone. You Laborites are either supreme hypocrites or you have an awfully selective memory.

    • jb says:

      10:22am | 30/08/10

      Wow Rob r Clteris you are won biter man, you ar so ful of htred i can nt imagin wat it is like to liv wit yourselph.
      But,
      Please don’t leave because all your diatribe just makes us all so much happier with the lives we have.
      Honestly you are welcome to this election because nothing and I repeat it because you have trouble understanding the obvious NOTHING will compare to the circus of watching the Rudd/gillard govt self destruct before our very eyes, it’s going to be one of the great political moments of our our time to watch the Gov Gen sack her daughters husband…
      hehehe now that will be something!

    • Holly says:

      10:39am | 30/08/10

      I’m wondering just who has this coalition “mandate”.  Buoyed by their increased number of seats it looks like the Nationals are flexing their muscles and making their own demands of coalition partners the Liberals.  Also I see they are threatening to not always support “coalition” legislation.  What a breath of fresh air, but how does this support the view that only the “coalition” can provide stable government?

    • Gregg says:

      12:52pm | 30/08/10

      I think Holly that other than the mention of mandate lost in the heading you may even find it very difficult to find the word used in Kevin’s article!
      It can not be doubted however that Labor did lose their mandate or do you have some facts that would seem that to be an unreasonable conclusion?

    • Jay says:

      11:05am | 30/08/10

      If Rudd had called a double dissolution election when the ETS was knocked back the Liberals/Nationals would have been wiped out.Thankfully Rudd realised that all this talk about Carbon prices and the other crap was totally unmanageable and could not be implemented without destroying the economy.We should all thank Tony Abbott for having the courage to stand up and say no, and we should be thankful that Rudd had a huge yellow streak.

    • ibast says:

      11:35am | 30/08/10

      I agree with your first sentence.  One of the lesson learned out of all this will be that when a party is polling that good and a double dissolution situation arises, don’t hesitate to act.  With a fully senate vote at that stage, the greens wouldn’t even be a factor.

    • Konrad says:

      08:59am | 31/08/10

      Jay may be correct that that a double dissolution election would have given Labor a clear victory. But Kevin Rudd was not necessarily yellow. He was stuck between a rock and a hard place. Labor voters wanted action on CO2, but he knew something that he could not tell them. Any election victory on carbon tax would have swiftly led to a vote of no confidence in the government. Increasingly the empirical evidence is pointing to a very limited role for CO2 in climate. Politicians around the world are now looking to distance themselves from this issue. You will only see environment and pollution referred to in general terms in the US November elections. Global warming or climate change will not get a mention.

    • Evan Findlay says:

      11:16am | 30/08/10

      I’d question why the Labor party would even want to govern for the next term, and for that matter, why the Liberal party would want too.
      As I previously stated before the election, the countries of America, Great Britain and Europe have failed to turn any corners let alone make any headway into resurrecting their economies. Confluent with the stagnation and deflation in the worlds economies is China’s measures to deliberately slow their economy which subsequently will filter through to the one sector of our economy that continues to prop us up.

      Things may change for the better but it’s a little concerning when the latest figures coming out of the USA point to a second recession and the Chairman of the Federal Reserve, Ben Bernanke, stating that he is prepared to throw everything at the economy, including the kitchen sink, to stave off the perils of further decay in the American financial system. 

      Now I would consider a political party, of either political persuasion, contemplating taking on the austerity of government given the economic climate to be brave given that the prize is fraught with serious political and economic repercussions. Should Australia fall to a recession, the mums and dads who are currently mired in a sea of debt, those with the most to lose, would seek to serve retribution on the political party that forms the next government.

      Consider the aforementioned scenario and couple it with the ensuing political landscape. A government that would have to pander to the four independents, continually readdressing policy agenda to garner their vote and diluting economic and social ideology in order to get legislation into the senate where the Greens will be lying in wait.

      “Too many cooks will spoil the broth”

      I can see why Mr Abbott is pushing for a new poll but for the life of me I fail to comprehend why Ms Gillard would want to preside over what could be a very short term of government followed by a long time in the political wilderness.

    • Hunterrunner says:

      11:17am | 30/08/10

      So many journalists and opinion makers rabbit on about the results obtained by the Labour Party at the last election. Faceless men, knifed PMs, recanted policies. But tell me, if Labour was such a tarnished brand, why did the Coalition fail to win a majority. There has been none, or precious little, assessment of why Abbott failed to grab power while he had the opportunity. Perchance what he offered was not any better than Gillard. So why is there not more discussion of Abbott’s failed effort to win outright power?

    • TheRealDave says:

      11:22am | 30/08/10

      I love the talk of ‘Mandates’ as in who has one - and who doesn’t. I remember ‘Honest’ John having a ‘mandate’ for the GST - despite more Australian’s voting against it than for it and ‘Honest’ John getting over the line due to exploiting the Tampa incident. I then remember the Libs screaming that Labor didn’t have a ‘mandate’ to do what they promised despite the Kevin07 windstorm that swept them out. And now we have Big Kev and the rest of the ‘Born to Rule’ Libs whinging about ‘Mandates’ again.

      Guess what Kev, you don’t have a mandate, neither does Labor. Its called a ‘Hung Parliament’ for a reason.

      Get over it.

    • Gregg says:

      01:12pm | 30/08/10

      ReallyDave!
      So so so much bitterness and yet you have three words correct
      ” neither does Labor “
      In case you missed it, mandate was in the heading and Kevin never claimed that the Liberals have a mandate but they are a credible alternative and will be dependent on the independents choice.

      Have a read again of the article without the Labor glasses and you could even see that Labor can learn from the events that have unfolded within the last 12 months. That is some of what Kevin has written of, eg.
      ” Shaped by the experience of the Howard Cabinet, Tony Abbott, as leader, promised his colleagues from the outset to be collegial. He selected a shadow cabinet that reflected the cross-section of the Party. He turned to experienced colleagues. And he listened to candid advice from them.

      He also knew that an Opposition must propound an alternative. That is not to oppose everything the government does, for no government is always wrong. The role of the Opposition is to consider any legislation the government proposes. It can support it or reject it. In doing so, it should set out its own principles as to why it believes the proposal is, or is not, in the national interest. “

      Some Labor people could learn a lot in applying some collegial rather than causical principles.

      You Dave and many of those Labor dunderhead comrades are the ones who now need to re-assess and develop some climbing techniques to stop falling further into the abyss as a step to climbing back to get over anything at all.
      Womanly ways can only taske one so far may be well worth considering by the faceless and afterall, another Kevin, I’m from Queensland and there to help is back in town!

    • TheRealDave says:

      03:11pm | 30/08/10

      @Gregg - bollocks. The Liberal shills and hacks have been crapping on about ‘Mandates’ since about 9:30pm on the night of the election. If its not ‘Mandates’ its ‘they lost 14 seats how can they govern’ or the like.

      Get over it - you didn’t win either. You don’t have a mandate nor do you have any perceived right to govern.

      I said it in my first post - Labor didn’t win either - nor do they have a madate - nor did they lose. I’d suggest removing your blinkers as well, at the very least I at least acknowledged my side didn’t win either, its a pity the liberal supporters and their members haven’t realised that they didn’t win either.

      After all, that’s what a ‘Hung Parliament’ means.

    • Joe Levitt says:

      11:41am | 30/08/10

      As if anything Kevin Andrews pens has any objective credibility.  Pure politics here.

    • augusta says:

      11:46am | 30/08/10

      I dont think so Mr Andrews. Just look at what is going on at present with threatening calls being made by Coalition supporters to the Independents. Quite shameful and I suggest its the Coalition that is very unfit to govern.

    • MarK says:

      12:23pm | 30/08/10

      Oh by the way Andrew cheers mate for starting the process that installed Abbott as an elected of the Liberal party.

      The party and country have a lot to thank your for.

      Good on ya mate - real courage shown. And a real gentleman as well.

    • Evan Findlay says:

      12:42pm | 30/08/10

      MarK,
      Bring me a bucket!

    • MarK says:

      01:16pm | 30/08/10

      Nope get your own.

      Kevin Andrews started this process and was horribly vilified in the 2007 election. The 2007 stuff was totally disgusting actually.

      Get me some facts Evan, or a counter argument, and we can talk.

    • Crash says:

      01:35pm | 30/08/10

      After his treatment of Mohammed Haneef immediately prior to the 2007 election, Andrews deserves every vile epithet that can be thrown at him

    • Evan Findlay says:

      01:42pm | 30/08/10

      I was not being argumentative but merely pointing out your man crush on Andy is somewhat sickening, hence the statement ’ Bring me a bucket”
      As for the country having to thank Andy for his actions I think your putting the horse before the cart. Mr Abbott has not even been voted into government let alone initiated any policy on which to be judged upon!

      Courage? So what do you call those who go into battle risking their lives?
      Slight exaggeration one would think.

    • MarK says:

      05:39pm | 30/08/10

      I call them soldiers.

      What do you call them Evan? .

      Why the comparison? Sort of makes no sense…....ahhhhh I see . Makes no sense.

      @Crash….really?

    • Lachlan says:

      12:33pm | 30/08/10

      You may say you reviewed all your policies, but where’s your industrial relations policy, Mr Workchoices?

    • Jim says:

      01:15pm | 30/08/10

      Apart from the rhetoric spewed forth by your CFMEU newsletters and the Labor scare campaign against it, what do you actually know (I mean as FACT) about Workchoices??? I, and the 50 or so people I had under me at the time did very well under Workchoices; the better operators got paid accordingly, and we didn’t have to run loops to discard the one piece of dead wood that was dragging the whole operation down. When KRudd got in we had to change to a collective agreement so everyone got teh same rates, and the good operators thought ‘why bother’.

    • Daryl says:

      02:06pm | 30/08/10

      Well said Jim. The workchoices campaign during the 07 election was all about the erosion of union power. It had nothing to do with the worker. I also prefer the individual contract system instead of this stupid communist style collective agreement. We are not all socialist clones, so why does the ALP want to treat us that way?

    • T.Chong says:

      02:23pm | 30/08/10

      Your right Dazza, we’re not all socialist clones, nor are we all capitalist stooges.
      If you want to work for less pay and conditions than others then that should be your right.
      Only trouble is in the race to the bottom via Workchoice type schemes , not everyone shares your belief that the boss is always right, kind and benevolent, and so the union movement evolved to protect the very award / conditions that you would expect, and are entitled to receive.

    • Daryl says:

      02:59pm | 30/08/10

      T.Chong, which awards were affected by workchoices? If you want to work for more pay and conditions that should also be your right! And it’s not about the boss being right, it’s about agreement and individual negotiation. Jim does well to highlight both the significant amount of misinformation as well as a real life example of where people are now worse off.

    • Gregg says:

      03:05pm | 30/08/10

      Chongy, don’t know what sort of work you may do or what sort of organisation you may work for but there’s something in life called

      Competition, Competition and more Competition and the ones who are prepared to do the best will have the best chance of suceeding.

      Just like mining companies have to compete on the international market and be made less competitive by an overspending government making a tax grab, so do all organisations need to compete, be it the banks against oneanother or the convenience stores against huge supermarkets.

      Go and ask a family run business about Work Choices why don’t you?
      Why do you think there’s a constant movement of work offshore from Australia?
      Go and find an open company as against one with a heavy [ no pun intended ] union presence and you’ll be amazed to learn about something called job satisfaction.

      And why do you think you like your Union?
      Tp protect those cushy conditions and your wages!
      And why is that so important?
      Not for job satisfaction but the money helps don’t it and why do you need more money?
      Just because our society being less competitive means we’ll have a higher cost of living.
      Open up your eyes, ears and mind1
      Sure, not every boss is an angel but most are in exactly the same situation in that they also need to be cometitive to keep their job and to keep organisations afloat.
      No organisation Chongy and the Union will do SFA for you.

      And that Chongy is the downward spiral for the whole country under Labor.
      A different approach to government may not stop it for with wage disparity country to country and our small population and shipping costs, there’ll in time be an evening up of wealth, but at least with people having a realistic approach to work, we’ll stand a better chance.

    • TheRealDave says:

      03:18pm | 30/08/10

      @Gregg - of course its all about competition and negotiation…which is why those 459 Visa workers were paid and treated so well….especially Welders because apparently we can’t find any Australian welders who need a job…left with $50 a week after their kind-hearted employers ‘looked after them’....

      I love how they trot out the old ‘We negotiated under Workchoices and got better conditions and wages’ crap and seem to forget all about those that got the arse, got ripped off and or got exploited.

      Short memories indeed wink

    • Jim says:

      03:27pm | 30/08/10

      T.Chong; I’ve worked in mining for 20 years…most of those years have been spent in non-unionised sites. As Gregg says, job satisfaction rates much higher in the non-unionised places. Why? Because when people give a damn they are rewarded well…KPI’s, business objectives…they all get reviewed on a yearly basis. People who excel in their role get bigger payrises, simple. Now I’m in a heavily unionised site…everyone gets the same so the impression one gets is everyone is lazy. Why? Because there is no incentive. Unions may have been formed for all the right reasons, now they are irrelevant and serve only to keep lazy, unmotivated people in work while trying to screw the company that puts food on their table “just because they can”.

    • Lachlan says:

      04:28pm | 30/08/10

      I know quite a lot about workchoices, since my sister was a victim.  When she was at work in a cd store in 2006, she was asked to sign an AWA that cut her weekend shift penalties and paid lunch breaks - effectively cutting her pay. When she refused to sign it they cut her hours down to one non-weekend shift per week. They replaced the other hours with people who were forced to sign the dodgy AWA as a condition of employment. This stuff was completely legal under workchoices.

      Workchoices was primarilly about one thing only - cutting an employer’s wage bill, by any means possible. It did this by ripping away hard won conditions, removing your right to unfair dismissal protections, crushing unions and your right to strike, putting everyone on individual contracts where all power rested with the employer, eliminating the no disadvantage test, and reducing the minimum standards down to a paltry five.

      Had we not gotten rid of workchoices, the next AWA you were asked to sign would have been a dud. Employers tempted you onto AWA’s with a high payrise, in full knowledge that once the laws were entrenched they could screw you later on.

      So for all those workchoices apologists - perhaps you would have preferred to go through the global financial crisis without any penalty rates, sick leave days, or unfair dismissal laws?

    • Lara H. says:

      05:19pm | 30/08/10

      We have a small business, and we found Workchoices increased our wages bill as we felt motivated to do what we could to constantly increase or maintain job satisfaction amongst our staff. We didn’t want our great staff poached!
      We provided uniforms, special training breaks, and we also felt pressured to provide regular wage rises.
      Now, we are moving back to award, where the good are stuck with the bad, a circumstance that drives us all nuts.
      We were investigated by the ‘Fair Work’ commission, which found nothing but our over-award payments, however the experience disillusioned (scared) us and made us determined to stick exactly to the award.
      Now, we make sure everyone gets their breaks on the dot… and no worker will be given a raise ‘just because we value you’. Back to the bad old days!

    • Jim says:

      05:22pm | 30/08/10

      So tell me Lachlan, why should people who are only available on weekends get penalty rates? Why get paid lunch breaks? I certainly don’t; I eat at my desk. Put yourself in the shoes of a small business owner. Would YOU be happy with a union telling you that you MUST pay certain rates wether the person is worth it or not? Oh, and that hour they takes for lumch comes out of your pocket…or in big business - the right to strike…what a crock. Lost count of the times barra season opens and the boys turn up to work with the boat trailers hooked up then call a 24-hour strike. It’s a rort mate.

    • Gregg says:

      11:22pm | 30/08/10

      Really Dave,
      Me thinks it could be the 457 you speak of and a visa used by all manner of organisations for tradies right through to accountants, IT people and medical people.
      Sure there have been companies that have not anided by the conditions, usually associated with overseas hiring companies and the regulations have been sharpened to control bad practices.
      As I said, not every boss is an angel and nor is every Union rep/official.

    • Peter says:

      02:09pm | 30/08/10

      @ Andrew. At 72 seat each, neither of you have a mandate and neither of you deserved it….. Time to change your politics. The people want national interests put ahead of the pathetic Liberal/Labour rivalry we lived with for too long…

    • fehowarth says:

      02:57pm | 30/08/10

      However, the Opposition did not gain a mandate to government. Most of the swing against Labor went to the Greens.  In many states, Labor gained or held it own.  What   effect of up to 14% informal votes in strong Labor seats in NSW has on the outcome?  Were these Labor voters unwilling to shift to the Coalition

    • Lazy Jesus says:

      03:49pm | 30/08/10

      I scrolled past this article and expected to find an equally offensive one written by someone in the Labour party but didn’t. What gives? Balance please.

    • Just Sayin' says:

      04:09pm | 30/08/10

      “The electoral objective of a political party is to win or retain government. This is not the highest aim of a party.”

      Nice in theory, Kevin, but it is directly at odds with what I was told by one of your party room colleagues.  Senator PRL told me in no uncertain terms that the most important thing is not the policy agenda, but getting elected, regardless of what policies had to be pursued in order to do so.

    • Robert S McCormick says:

      04:14pm | 30/08/10

      Kevin Andrew accuses the ‘media of making celebrities out of politicians”.The politicians have only themselves to blame for this stupidity1 The Parties started this themselves for it was they, not the media, who decided they should pre-select so-called celebrities. Celebrities are indeed created by the media but that does not mean that political parties should pre-select these, for the most part, little-to-no-brain starlets etc. who’s sole claim to fame is that they have quite pretty/handsome faces with bodies to almost match! These nobodies get pre-selected, elected & then spend the next 3,4,6 or 8 years sitting on the back benches nodding or shaking their heads like those equally obnoxious dogs etc which stupid people put in the rear windows of their cars!
      It is no wonder the public are sick & tired of, in particular, both the ALP & Liberals! Both the majors treat us like morons. They pre-select their celebrities because they know they haven’t a scrap of intelligence. They will do exactly what the Party Leaders, Whips & faction leaders tell them to do. A bit like a well-trained dogs really.
      Middle Management of the Public Service, at least in SA, are like these celebrities without the media! They quite deliberately choose unintelligent, lazy work-shy parasites to promote. The reason? They don’t show Middle Management up for the lazy, work-shy, unitelligent parasites they themselves are.
      Many of our Federal, State & Territory politicians, all of whom are Public Servants too, are no different.
      They regard themselves as being celebrities.
      Why else do they, too, grant themselves Tax-payer-funded luxury motor cars, First Class Air Travel & Accommodation if not to enhance their own sense of their personal importance?
      Neither the ALP, Coalition,Greens nor the Independents won a mandate to govern. The ALP lost 18 seats, the Coalition won 11, the Greens 1, Independents 2.
      It is no wonder there were so many Informal votes for we trust none of them be they major or runt parties
      The result is we get increaingly moribund, dysfunctional Parliaments, Governments & Oppositions

    • nosthow says:

      04:40pm | 30/08/10

      So Kevin a crazy bunch who ring people up and pretend to bethe Devil are fit to govern are they ? God help Australia if the Mad Monk and his ancient fossils are ever made the government. Fancy an MP ringing up someone and saying “I am the Devil - Booooooooooooo ” ! I wouldnt even want these type of people standing on the council verge near my home let alone become the govt. Abbott - Yuk !

    • MK says:

      05:55pm | 30/08/10

      Wow, care to take any more creative license on what you THINK might have happened there or are we quite finished? Quite frankly, there were a hell of a lot of crazy people, if we go by your vague definition, voting in this election! Fancy someone taking something like the now already infamous ‘Devil Call’, which has already been blown into something 10 times bigger than it was originally, seriously!?

    • nosthow says:

      06:57pm | 30/08/10

      @MK and Roise - well Rob Oakeshott was very unimpressed as are all intelligent people !

    • General Ashnak says:

      05:18pm | 30/08/10

      Actually the only party that earned a clear majority of seats is the ALP. The combined Liberal/National/LNPoQ/CLP total is 1 more than their seats. Remember that without the National party the Liberals are no where even close to being able to form government.

    • Rosie says:

      06:16pm | 30/08/10

      nosthow it doesn’t seem that you are blessed with friends that you can joke to. I know that I have many friends that I can joke to and feel very comfortable doing so, also know where we stand with each other.

      If these politicians had every intentions of putting the country before themselves they would put aside their differences and work together in a dignified manner in making sure a minority govt is formed as soon as possible.

    • nosthow says:

      07:40pm | 30/08/10

      @Rosie - an idiot calling someones child on the phone and saying “I am the Devil - Boooooooooooooooo !” is not a good look Rosie - I would have reported it to the Police Rosie. And he was a serving Coalition MP !

    • Rachel says:

      08:25pm | 30/08/10

      What excitement you generated Andrew! Must be nice to relieve so many people of their pent-up frustrations. Thanks for doing us a favour last year when you took on Malcolm. Whether the Coalition gets over the line or not, it has been a remarkable transition. Hope the State Libs learn the lesson.

    • Stan says:

      08:38pm | 30/08/10

      The game should be over. The Coalition has won the most primary votes, the most seats and, according to the AEC tonight, the two party preferred vote. As you point out, Kevin, this was not just because the government imploded, but also because the Coalition was competitive. Yes, it did have a bumpy start, but so do all new oppositions. The remarkable feature is how it reformed itself in the past year. Recall how the commentators “boo-hoo"ed you when you challenged MT. Now they want to pretend it was all the fault of Labor. The same old critics are out again, but many Australians will applaud your courage and foresight, and the discipline your colleagues have shown.

    • Barry says:

      08:50pm | 30/08/10

      Kevin Andrews and Phil Ruddock remind me of the bad guys in the sharp uniforms in WWII movies, that would probably dance around in fishnet stockings when they think nobody is watching. Isn’t it funny how such stereotypes prove true in life.

    • Grumpy Oldman says:

      09:04am | 31/08/10

      One of the saddest outcomes of the election is that the repulsive Kevin Andrews was returned.

    • Gregg says:

      12:56am | 01/09/10

      As long as he keeps repelling the opposition grumpies right out of government, we can all join you GOms in not having anything to be worried about.

    • Colin says:

      08:41am | 01/09/10

      You guys are stuck in a left wing fantasy. Whoever governs, Labor was flogged. But you have to hate someone. It used to be Menzies, then Fraser (until he joined you) and then Howard. Now its Ruddock and Andrews. It must really mess with you that they ignore you, and succeed.

    • Tez says:

      05:12pm | 03/09/10

      Get over it Kevin. You guys will never lose your “Divine right to Rule” mentality. you expected to win comfortably and you did not. Labor were their own worst enemy in not selling what a great government they were. If it was not for the liberals religious infighting in NSW you might be a minister now.

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