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How I became a member of the ‘I’m not racist, but’ club

Tory Shepherd

by Tory Shepherd

27 Mar 05:40am

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Filed under: Aboriginal, Aboriginal Affairs, Afl, Indigenous Affairs, Racism, Racist

79 comments

I almost wish I hadn’t written this column last week. I argued that Adelaide recruiter Matthew Rendell should not have been forced to resign over his warning that AFL clubs could get to a point where they only recruited Aboriginal players with one white parent.


Rendell was pretty convincing when he argued he wasn’t suggesting this should be a policy; rather warning that this dire situation could come to pass. It was all about the context.

With the gloriousness of hindsight I would have written it differently because the AFL community engagement manager Rendell made the comments to – Jason Mifsud – has a slightly different account of the conversation that makes it sound less like a pie-in-the-sky throwaway line and more part of an ongoing stereotyping within the AFL.

Much of that conversation, the intentions behind it, and the extent of broader troubles in football remain a mystery.

I still think the AFL has forgiven greater sins than Rendell’s, and that he’s been hard done by.

The main reason I’m a little dismayed about the column was that it gave me a much-unwanted entry to the ‘I’m not racist, but…’ club.

People took my comments as some sort of indication that I was arguing racism is OK. Or that it’s not racist to say bad stuff about Aboriginal people. Or something.

People approached me in odd places as though we shared a secret handshake and said things like ‘about time someone stood up for those of us who think *insert racist stereotype here*’.

I hear people even rang radio stations to celebrate the fact I’d come to my senses about all this political correctness gone mad, and was instead embracing racism as ‘telling it like it is’.

It’s as though people are just bursting with all these nasty, ill-informed ideas and when they feel they have permission to let them spurt out, they do so immediately and enthusiastically.

In this job you get plenty of that vile bile online, from mostly anonymous commentators, and some very nonymous ones. It’s rarely even shocking anymore.

But what did surprise me was how apparently easy it is to lance the boil in real life, and for all that poisonous discharge to come leaking out.

I just wish that analogy could be extended to cleaning, disinfecting, and healing. 

Most commented

79 comments

Show oldest | newest first

    • Greg says:

      11:09pm | 27/03/12

      So all of my posts are banned now?

      Must have really touched a nerve, hey?

      hehe

      Reply

    • ants pants says:

      05:55pm | 27/03/12

      life is too short for regrets.
      the Tories always regret their braggings, their writings and their sermons.
      The Tories will not win the next federal election

      Reply

    • papachango says:

      09:59am | 28/03/12

      Given there’s currently no Tory party in Australia, I agree it would be difficult for them to win.
      The Liberal Party, on the other hand, have a very strong chance of winning - not because they’re particularly fantastic, but because the current lot are so woefully incompetent and dishonest.

    • Commissioner Gordon says:

      05:52pm | 27/03/12

      The Liberal National Party thinks the AFL is a conspiracy theory branch of the ALP ! The Libs love racism, sexism and ageism ! Its called individual competition

      Reply

    • papachango says:

      02:08pm | 27/03/12

      The problem is that the definition of ‘racism’ has broadened too much, so that it risks either losing its effectiveness as an undersirable trait, or being used as a tool to shut people up and close down debates.

      Its original meaning was either ‘the belief that one or more races are inherently superior to others’ or ‘the view that people should be treated differently purely because of their race’.

      Most people, leftwing, rightwing, or center, would be opposed to the above, however now the R word has been extended to include criticism of certain cultures, and virtually any criticism of some groups of people who belong to certain identified victim groups, regardless of their ethnic makeup. This leads to the beast known as political correctness and some groups being virtually immune from debate.

      In some circumstances, it’s also considered racist to voice an opinion that someone who is accused of racism might not actually be racist - this seems to be Tory’s issue. There’s also the issue of excessive political correctness forcing genuine ugly racism to hide in the shadows rather than be debated in the open and defeated with better ideas.

      So the qualifier ‘I’m not racist but…’ might actually be valid rather than a prelude to something genuinely racist. When was the last time you heard anyone say ‘I’m not racist, but (insert ethnic group) are all idiots?’

      I take it to mean “I’m not racist according to the original definition, however I don’t believe in using false accusations of racism as a tool to stifle genuine debate”

      Reply

    • James1 says:

      05:06pm | 27/03/12

      “When was the last time you heard anyone say ‘I’m not racist, but (insert ethnic group) are all idiots?’”

      Maybe it’s a product of growing up in rural SE QLD, but every time I’ve ever heard someone say “I’m not racist but…” its been followed by an incredibly racist remark.  Likewise, every time someone prefaces a remark with anything along those lines (“I don’t hate gays but…”, “I’m not politically biased but…”), the statement that follows absolutely negates the preceding disclaimer.

    • Reality Girl says:

      01:25pm | 27/03/12

      oh tory

      man up

      you wrote your opinion last week, some people did not read it they way you wanted them to, so what ....

      i did not think you were being a racist when i read it, i though you were saying that maybe, just maybe, the pc crowd needed to occasionally pull their heads in an look at the context of things before they jumped in boots and all and that what the guy said might just be an issue that needed to be looked at

      now, you are horrified that some people have labelled you racist or labelled you as not politically correct and are congratulating you for it

      well, gues what, your article was not prticularly politically correct and even saying that the issue only applied to aboriginals from remote communities could possibly be construed as racist

      again, so what, you were writing to try to bring an issue to light and to say that maybe, just maybe, the race debate about it was detracting from looking at the issue

      if you don’t want people to identify with you when you write artciles (whether they get your intention right or wrong) then don’t write articles

      you put yourself out there in public, some of the public are going to come at you with knives and some are going to congratulate you for having knives you didn’t know you were holding

      so again, i say, man up, stop apologising for writing what you thought

      either, keep writing and stand by what you write or

      stop writing

      either way, please stop whining about how we all take you the wrong way not matter which way we take you

      oh, this brings a third option to mind, write more clearly and less hesitantly ...

      Reply

    • chopper knows says:

      12:29pm | 27/03/12

      As the saying goes “a racist person is an uneducated person”, well..some suggest it should be the other way around..

      Reply

    • Chopper knows says:

      05:44pm | 27/03/12

      No Subotic I’m suggesting your a racist since you gained such a highly respected education in queensland and can speak a dozen languages…

    • Finding out says:

      05:22pm | 27/03/12

      yep maybe ONE of their parents is uneducated…oi oi oi(!#%)
      Ive always pondered which is the worse of two evils..the blatant in yer face racist or the tool that starts their sentence with “Im no racist but….”

    • subotic knows, but doesn't care says:

      02:35pm | 27/03/12

      So chopper knows, all uneducated people are racist, right?

      Everyone under 5 who hasn’t yet gone to school is racist?
      Someone born in a remote village without access to books or schools is racist?
      All aboriginal Australians up until the “white man” came with his books was racist?

      Coming from you, that would make perfect sense….

    • chopper knows says:

      12:14pm | 27/03/12

      My asian wife who works for a business which employs asians only, had recently employed a new asian receptionist. During the first few weeks of trial, it was found out her boyfriend was a white Australian. The Manager of the business was then advised by the directors to tell the receptionist to think long and hard about the seriousness of the job. This was directly due to the fact in the past, asian girls who have been working there with White Boyfriends have been influenced by their White boyfriends in a negative manner towards the business and their role within it. Reverse racism or are we on to another totally different topic here. Imperialism. The white man is seen as the influencer of other races? It seems that way doesnt it.

      Reply

    • Al says:

      12:09pm | 27/03/12

      I’m not racist.
      I treat all races with the same disdain (including my own) for being predominately stupid, self-centred and callous to those not of their own race (the ‘us v’s them’ position).

      Reply

    • subotic Slayer says:

      12:08pm | 27/03/12

      Thank god I hate everyone equally….

      Reply

    • M says:

      04:35pm | 27/03/12

      You are the epitomization of equality. Bravo.

    • christine says:

      11:15am | 27/03/12

      Racism is a cultural and political belief that biology determines who we are. The notion of race has its origins in a quasi-universal belief in heredity which, in history, established lines between patricians and slaves, aristocrats and commoners , aristocrats and serfs, etc.  Racism is also the belief that “races’ can be arranged on a hierarchical scale. It is in large part a 19th century notion derived from a misunderstanding of Darwin’s theory of evolution and natural selection. Today, we tend to equate or substitute culture and ethnicity for race, and to view ethnic or cultural groups not on a hierarchical scale, but as competing.  Cultural generalisation, to be worthwhile, should be well informed: stereotypes do not exist for a reason, stereotyping is the idea that because someone is of culture x, they necessarily believe y and do z. No individual ever embodies the totality of the values, customs and tastes of the cultural group she/he “belongs to” .  Immigrants from the same country hold different values and political and religious beliefs to begin with, and once in their new country, they adopt, at least to a degree, a different language, different eating habits and social graces.  They must mix at school and at work, may intermarry and will vote for common political leaders.  If people can several languages, they can also hold more than one set of cultural values: they can mix and match, pick and choose, have several identities.  People of similar cultural background may like to hang out with people like themselves, but not all do.  Communities are flexible and porous.  A responsible multicultural policy should always look for the means to encourage common ground rather than facilitate the ghettoisation of cultural groups.

      I am not denying that culture forges values, and ethnicity social ties, but making the point that culture is a set of customs and habits and the product of political and legal experience.  Cultural renewal, exchange and debate are the lifeblood of democracy:  by challenging and renewing cultural norms we have changed not only attitudes but laws on class, gender, age, the environment, our treatment of children and animals. 

      If racial hatred is a legal boundary we should not be allowed to cross, “political correctness” is social etiquette : when in doubt, be reserved and be polite -  that makes social relations easier, and enforces mutual respect. It is not unlike the self-censoring we observe by minding our ps and qs when speaking to our elders.  intercultural sensitivity should not mean that all things cultural are automatically off limits and necessarily beyond criticism.  In a multicultural setting, there are bound to be cultural practices (on all sides) that challenge dearly held values or habits, that offend common civility or may threaten fundamental principles -  practices that are oppressive and others that may well break the law. 

      I am not a racist at all: I do feel an obligation to try and understand how the other side sees things , but feel no obligation to agree – because I believe that all citizens of a democracy have the right and the responsibility to reason, to negotiate and to change their minds as well.

      Not everyone is a little racist, but everyone is a possibly wary of people they recognise as culturally and physically different (if the physical difference is great) and therefore feel out of their depth and comfort zone. Of course, it can be difficult to relate across cultures : there are plenty of grounds for misunderstanding, but the difficulty can also be in the same order as issues of political, class, ideological and religious differences, and that, as we all know, can lead to mass oppression and murder. 

      Cultural beliefs can also be difficult to challenge : certain values are held so dear and are so taken for granted that to go against them seems like violating nature (e.g sexual orientation and gay marriage).  But we can either look for common ground or for an argument, and depending on what is at stake and the context, in a democracy, there is a place and time for both.  There is also a manner inherent to good argument: for all parties to remain open-minded, well intentioned and generous.  That sort of thing always goes a long way to solve most problems.

      Reply

    • Mark says:

      11:04am | 27/03/12

      This whole site is like a code: “Im not racist, but…”


      Don’t feel like it’s all you, Tory.

      Reply

    • Pat says:

      10:59am | 27/03/12

      What is the big elephant in the room? Not really, whether someone is Aboriginal or not. BUT the fact : what can happen if some sports recruiter goes to isolated parts of Australia and recruits young unsophisticated people. Such young people. -normally as expected-  are not up to, or have any idea of how to cope with the various social dangers,and temptations that they will have to quickly confront and manage. Added to, by being flung straight into the full glare of publicity and the demands of the sporting group, that has not just ‘simply employed them’...but has them, under tight legal binding contracts.  Phew!!.

      Rendell   - it must be said , could have chosen better words to frame what essentially are virtually the same sentiments, that I have expressed. .  He may have been clumsy in the phraseology he used , in his made statement, But to be accused of staright out racism by what are his cynical and hypocritical detractors - (wanting to gain theri own personal anti racist ‘credits’ ) - is unfair.
      .

      Reply

    • Friedrich Nietzsche says:

      10:31am | 27/03/12

      Morality is just a fiction used by the herd of inferior human beings to hold back the few superior men.

      Reply

    • M says:

      11:49am | 27/03/12

      He had fun!

    • SydneyGirl says:

      10:40am | 27/03/12

      And as Sheldon Cooper informed us, he died of syphilis.

    • Ooh shiny says:

      09:54am | 27/03/12

      Oh, Tory…
      “The main reason I’m a little dismayed about the column was that it gave me a much-unwanted entry to the ‘I’m not racist, but…’ club. “

      You mean, you were MISTAKEN for a racist?

      And not once in your column have you addressed the possibility that some of the “racists” out there may be in exactly same boat as you - misunderstood? Tarred and feathered for saying something with zero racist intention?

      Ouch, it hurts when it happens you YOU.

      Reply

    • Scott says:

      09:53am | 27/03/12

      Football clubs have always been racist.  Why is this news?

      Who remembers Hawthorn’s recruiting policy during the 70’s and 80’s?  Don’t recruit anyone darker than the brown on the jumper

      Reply

    • CJ says:

      09:49am | 27/03/12

      It appears to me your that problem was a lack of basic journalism, Tory. In writing your original peice, it seems you failed to do the most rudimentary research: the type of backgrounding they teach in journo 101, i.e. make sure you get both sides (or all sides) of the story before putting pen to paper. Based on you original item, it seems your research entailed reading The Age story, then watching Rendall on The Footy Show. Some, like me, would find it astonishing if you didn’t bother to put a call in to Jason Mifsud or others to get a more informed take on exactly what was said and in what context. It looks like you just went with Rendall’s version. One source = journalistic fail. So, is it possible your membership of the “I’m not racist, but ... ” club is your reward for doing a half-arsed job?

      Reply

    • neil says:

      09:39am | 27/03/12

      If there is racism in the AFL it does not show up in the statistics for indigenous players.

      In 2011 there were 801 listed AFL players of these 78 were indigenous which is 9.74%. Indigenous Austrailians make up 0.58% of the Australian population, so in AFL they are over represented by a staggering 1,679%

      Reply

    • GregDin says:

      09:31am | 27/03/12

      What I think makes the comments racist is that the issues faced by some of the young Aboriginal footballers Rendell was referring to are faced by some non-Aboriginal footballers.

      What recruiters such as Rendell should be looking at (when making decisions by ‘his’ logic) is whether potential footballer’s from lower socio economic backgrounds and tough upbringings - these are things faced by many kids irrespective of whether both or one or neither of their parents are Aboriginal or not and are what Rendell is intimating are faced by the majority of Aboriginal recruits (which is potentially not true).

      There are a barrage of psych tests administered to all new recruits that are far more revealing than a cursory look at the genetic lineage of new recruits, that provide insight into a recruit’s coping mechanisms and mental aptitude. These should assist in determining whether a player is recruited or not*. Having two Aboriginal parents does not guarantee you will face hardships that impact on your ability to be a successful professional footballer.

      * Personally, I believe that the vast majority of ‘troubled kids’ could benefit from the money and support provided by a football club and should be recruited 99% of the time despite personal issues, if they have the talent. We shouldn’t give up on anyone, especially if they have natural abilities that can directly be turned into entertainment and success.

      Reply

    • Ron says:

      08:43am | 27/03/12

      People don’t understand the principle of political correctness. It’s not avoiding observing a black man is a black man. It’s not about forbidding jewish jokes.  It’s simply not raising the issue of race (or whatever other distinction) when it’s not relevant.

      We are all the same people wearing different skin, we come from all sorts of backgrounds, we all have vast range of different capabilities as individuals. Racism extends the behaviors of individuals to an entire group of people and creates prejudicial stereotypes. When we’re mixing with people we know, or of “our” race, we ascribe their behavior to them as individuals. For example, we say Tory is an alcoholic, we don’t say white women are alcoholics. If a person of our race has a problem parking a car, we say that person can’t drive. If a person of a different race can’t park a car, we say ‘those people’ can’t drive.

      What Rendell said is racist because he’s raised the issue of race when it wasn’t relevant and is relying on stereotypes.  If some white kid entering the AFL was experiencing troubles as a result of growing up in a dysfunctional environment, he would just be a troubled kid in need of help. An aboriginal kid though is having problems because he has aboriginal parents. For what it’s worth, the AFL, the media and government is also patronizingly racist by making allowances for people based on their race rather than personal circumstances.

      Reply

    • Jeremy "who said asians cant drive "Lin says:

      05:50pm | 27/03/12

      Well its true about the asians that can’t drive but so are the white middle class women taking their kids to private school. Why do they need a 4wd in the first place? So they can drive in the middle of the street and feel safe(with total disregard for people driving in the opposite direction and as for asian’s not being able to drive, its quite simple. A lot come from China and they never had cars for as long as westerners, they had bicycles, but saying that, in 20 yrs time, you’ll all be driving cars made in China smile

    • Ben C says:

      02:23pm | 27/03/12

      @ AFR

      Haha, what a trifecta to hit smile

    • AFR says:

      12:42pm | 27/03/12

      So what about an old Asian woman driving a 4WD taking kids to schoool? (I live in Ashfield - its a common occurance) smile

    • M says:

      12:16pm | 27/03/12

      Some couriers are ok. Don’t confuse “speeds all the time” with “unable to safely operate a motor vehicle.”

    • Jeremy "who said asians cant drive "Lin says:

      11:52am | 27/03/12

      Neither can Taxi drivers, White Courier van Drivers, Old people and Women in 4wd’s taking their kids to School…

    • M says:

      11:18am | 27/03/12

      Yep. It’d probably be me.

      I have one. I’m irish, would you ever expect to see me sober?

    • iansand says:

      11:05am | 27/03/12

      Speeding in a stock Corolla.  You ought to be congratulated. smile

    • Ben C says:

      10:36am | 27/03/12

      @ M

      Stereotypical but wrong. Asians just can’t drive, no matter where the car’s from. I put myself forward as an example - would you expect to see someone busted for speeding in a stock Corolla twice in the space of four months?

    • M says:

      10:20am | 27/03/12

      Hate to be the harbringer of incorectness, but Asians in German cars really can’t drive.

      Is that statement racist or stereotypical?

    • hot tub political machine says:

      08:42am | 27/03/12

      There is a strong correlation between a lack of education and racism and interestingly enough this has been demonstrated across several cultures. This is why the word “ignorant” is often used as a stand in for racism.

      There are probably a number of reasons for this, for example people with lower education levels tend to have to compete with migrants for jobs – where as well educated/highly skilled people rarely have their job security threatened by migration.

      One of the consequences of this however is a general sense of uneasiness. If you quite genuinely hold racist sentiments, you are far more likely to feel genuinely uncomfortable when in the presence of the race you genuinely believe bad things about. You will *actually* have an elevated heart rate when one of those “types” crosses you in the street because you *actually* believe that thing your mate told you they do….

      Back in the day you had ways of dealing with it which included sharing you discomfort as “a burden shared is a burden halved”.

      …..but something changed……

      Some where along the line, people started to have a problem with people expressing their racist sentiments. The girl at the bar turned her back after the racist joke, the boss gave you a formal warning, your kids stopped bringing their friends home. Society didn’t want to know.

      But then….the Internet……and it can’t tell you to shut up and leave it alone because it doesn’t know who you are. You can’t shut them up, but you can skip their posts. No great mysteries here Tory, just the tragedy of an unwillingness to learn.

      Reply

    • Tim says:

      11:50am | 27/03/12

      Emma,
      I disagree. I think a lot of skilled migration occurs because of a failure at the training end in this country. It’s far easier (and cheaper) to import people who are already trained rather than setting up more training courses here.
      In a lot of cases, quality and skills in professions suffer because the overseas courses and degrees are not up to scratch.

    • hot tub political machine says:

      11:06am | 27/03/12

      Haven’t had the dubious “pleasure” over hearing that one myself but yes, t’would be quite the irony fail. smile

    • Emma says:

      10:53am | 27/03/12

      hot tub political machine

      I really have to laugh about those that complain about all GPs around being Asian and how they take over their jobs when they havent even finished highschool themselves.

    • hot tub political machine says:

      10:30am | 27/03/12

      As someone head hunted for skilled migration I certainly have heard of it. As you say It only tends to happen in industries where the demand is not being met by local supply - e.g. Tradie’s in Oz, Social Workers in the UK

      But for example you’ll notice that unqualified workers are the most likely to oppose migration from refugees and its the KKK who are most likely to say an immigrant took their job rather than blame their unemployment on their inability to spell job.

    • Emma says:

      09:46am | 27/03/12

      “There are probably a number of reasons for this, for example people with lower education levels tend to have to compete with migrants for jobs – where as well educated/highly skilled people rarely have their job security threatened by migration.”

      Excuse me? Ever heard of skilled migration? Its for those jobs that not enough Aussies qualify for.

    • Matt says:

      08:24am | 27/03/12

      What’s wrong with hiring footballers based on their physical capacity to play the sport and their skill at playing said sport… who cares who their parents were or what colour their skin is?

      Reply

    • Markus says:

      09:23am | 27/03/12

      Because it isn’t just about talent, it is about the ability to apply oneself on and off the field 7 days a week, and to adapt to an existing setup.
      Just like many of us cannot land a drop punt on the run from 60 metres out, a lot of people cannot handle this heavily structured lifestyle, and it has been indicated by several clubs now that players from remote communities are particularly prone to struggling with the change.

    • Zaf says:

      09:20am | 27/03/12

      [Because sport is a multi billion dollar business and part of a sportman’s job is…]

      ...to get the crowds in and keep the home crowd loyal.  The line between sports and media is blurred in Footy.

      So basically it’s the same reason that any Aborigianl protagonists you see on television are played by actors with some European heritage as well.  Even on bloody Living Black.

      It stinks, and Footy is actually deep pocketed enough to swim against the current and have an actual impact on changing the way it flows.  Too bad they didn’t think it was worthwhile.

    • Tim says:

      08:37am | 27/03/12

      Because sport is a multi billion dollar business and part of a sportman’s job is being able to handle difficult and stressful situations.

      A good support network enables the sportsman to transition into professional life where they will be being paid massive amounts of money and face many challenges. It makes them less likely to go off the rails which hurt’s the business.

      This goes just as much for the white bogan as it does for an Aboriginal from an outback camp.

      It’s not PC, but business rarely is.

    • chuck says:

      08:20am | 27/03/12

      Yes and there are only too many people who are willing to lampoon those with an alternative opinion to their own who flash the coloured card (pun intended).

      The AFL is riddled with PC correctness and overpaid officials all of whom have to justify their jobs and appear to be doing something. Listening to Mifsud expand on his recollections one wonders as to his real agenda and level of comprehension.

      Australia has become a sad place where it is now taboo to speak about some subjects without offending the ruling clique.

      Reply

    • ShamWow says:

      08:05am | 27/03/12

      The belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, esp. so as to distinguish it as…
      Prejudice or discrimination directed against someone of a different race based on such a belief.

      There is the definition, plenty of people need to learn it.

      Reply

    • SydneyGirl says:

      04:08pm | 27/03/12

      The point is that there are no “races”. We are taking a word that had currency a few centuries ago - pretty much based on outward appearance - and still misapplying it.  It serves no purpose to persist in the notion of race and “fixed in stone” characteristics of each race and saying “the races are different” when as Warren points out scientific research debunks race.

      Sure people are always classifying humans and there are cultural differences and its possibly a handy tool to decide where you belong but to persist in the notion that science says we are different is nothing other than pseudoscience. One could dismiss it as harmless but we know what erroneous beliefs in eugenics and the like have resulted in. Its the invoking of spurious science (by providing some handy link from a corner of the Internet) that is annoying.

    • Warren says:

      12:52pm | 27/03/12

      “But science says we are different.”

      No. Science says there is no such thing as race. “Race” essentially a cultural construct.  There are no characteristics, no traits, not even one gene that distinguish all members of one “race” from all members of another. In fact the genetic difference within a “race” are more varied than those between “races”.

      Redheads on the other hand are a different species entirely.

    • M says:

      11:16am | 27/03/12

      But science says we are different. It’s not racism though.

    • SydneyGirl says:

      10:46am | 27/03/12

      The “genetically inherited” argument to indicate that SCIENCE SAYS WE ARE DIFFERENT will turn out to be as much of sham as any of those pseudoscience theories like phrenology etc.  which eventually form the basis of scientific racism.

    • M says:

      09:09am | 27/03/12

      Not sure what your point is Shamwow.

      Asians generally lack the ability to digest dairy products. Pacific Islanders have thicker skulls and higher pain tolerances than most other people. White people are generally better able to process alcohol.

      There are certainly many different genetically inherrited characteristics between the races.

    • Emma says:

      08:26am | 27/03/12

      With time some terms are not used anymore according to their original definition but change slightly in their meaning of get a negative or positive swing to them.

    • Sam says:

      09:27pm | 27/03/12

      Avenue Q was in Oz about 3 years ago, probably not much chance of it coming back even though it was quite a decent show. Only found out about it due to the Intenet is for Porn song, love that song,

    • iansand says:

      11:12am | 27/03/12

      I don’t know if Avenue Q has ever made it to Australia.  If it does, see it.  As my niece calls it, The Muppets on crack.  It is the most delightful, funny, politically incorrect puppet show.

    • adam says:

      09:15am | 27/03/12

      iansand, theres porn on the internet as well as the punch? why wasn’t i told this before, i’ve been wasting my time.
      so much pocket billiards to play so little time

    • jg says:

      07:44am | 27/03/12

      One the problems we see in this country these days is the inability to question or critisie those who are not of white, anglo saxon descent as it is often wrongly, construed as racism when really, it can be a valid observation that needs to be aired and discussed.

      I have a bunch of crass, loud and foul mouthed, boozing, fighting, screaming bogans just down the road from my house. The place is a mess with abandoned cars and whitegoods all over the unkempt front yard. I can say this because they are white. However, if they were Aboriginal and i was to point this out I would be accused of racism. Surely this is wrong?

      Sadly, stereotypes exist for a reason.

      And yes, that makes me a member of the club as well….

      Reply

    • papachango says:

      05:07pm | 27/03/12

      I don’t care for left/right steretypes either, but the fact is there are a bunch of people calling themselves ‘Aboriginal activists’, who have a certain ideology, and are fixed in their view. They are quite different from aboriginals that live in remote areas etc, but they are lumped in together as an oppressed victim group in the minds of these ‘activists’. Some prominent indigenous leaders who disagree with this view have been labelled as traitors or even a racial slurs like ‘coconut’ by the activists.
      The point is, more generally, in ord
      er to avoid racism, treat people as individuals not as members of a racial or religious group. Racism is, after all,  merely a cruide form of collectivism. Racism become structually impossible if you focus on individual rights rather than minority group rights.

      Aborigines arguing that they should have the right to vote are merely arguing that they should have the same individual rights as everyone else - this makes perfect sense and was overwhelmingly supported in 1967.

      Arguing tha aboriginals are a distinct group deserving of special treatment, no matter how well-intentioned, entrenches difference rather than unity and is unlikely to get the same support.

      I don’t agree with everything Bolt says, but that was the core of his argument here that I do agree with. Unfortunately it’s now almost illegal to insist on no racial differences in some cases

    • SydneyGirl says:

      02:27pm | 27/03/12

      So true, before the lefties came along, no one ever had a collectivist approach with regard to generalisation and vilification of other races, ethnicities, nations. Not.

      This bogus right/left approach is spurious.  Its just another tedious them/us argument in which your side is always morally pure.  And what is your point? So if aboriginals are not allowed to vote, they should individually take up the issue and not as a group? Stretching the argument a bit much there.

      As for Bolt, he is extremely adept at Bad aboriginal/muslim/immigrant behaviour = entire community generalisations.  Hardly the example to use.

    • papachango says:

      01:41pm | 27/03/12

      That’s the difference. Bad white person behaviour = individual, Bad aboriginal behaviour = entire community

      True, but I blame the lefty aboriginal activists and academics for this. It is they who have used a collectivist approach to dealing with Aboriginals as a minority / victim group rather than as individuals. It leads to ridiculous outcomes like…  things we’re not allowed to talk about any more (see Bolt versus Eatock)

    • Dene says:

      11:39am | 27/03/12

      I agree with SydneyGirl - noone says “The white people down the road..” etc Everytime a black, gay or any other minority does something wrong, we automatically are hot in the media with, “John Smith, a gay man from.. commited *insert crime* today..” noone says “John, a white guy..” see the difference??
      jg - you didn’t say white at all.. until after, in fact that proves my point, why do we need to mention that the bogans are ANYTHING that is why it leads to stereotyping..

    • SydneyGirl says:

      10:39am | 27/03/12

      No one would however extrapolate the behaviour of the crass white bogans into a diatribe against white people, their general uselessness, their inclination to bludge, their inclination to drink, their inclination to crime, them being dirty folk etc. That’s the difference. Bad white person behaviour = individual, Bad aboriginal behaviour = entire community.

    • OchreBunyip says:

      06:57am | 27/03/12

      The truth is not racist, only one’s perception is. If we are so PC we cannot talk about actual problems because they occur to anyone other than a caucasian then what is the point of trying to address an issue? How about we beat the rush and go racist early? Just admit we will refer to race if it is pertinent to the conversation. I’ll go first.

      For example:
      There is a segment of Australian people who live shorter lives than the average, often due to medical and social issues. That group is Aboriginal. This group should get different attention from government health and social programmes to address whatever problems seem to relate specifically to their situation.

      How hard was that?

      Lay on!

      Reply

    • M says:

      06:55am | 27/03/12

      Political Correctness is a grand thing innit?

      Reply

    • Tim says:

      06:25am | 27/03/12

      I stereotype, It’s faster.

      Reply

    • elhombre says:

      06:19pm | 27/03/12

      I agree. Racism is important. It lets you hate people without having to go to the trouble of getting to know them first. It’s all about efficiency! And I’m not racist either..one of my best friends knows a jew! smile

    • NESLIHAN KUROSAWA says:

      06:02am | 27/03/12

      Hi Tory,

      Lets all face the fact that we do get those strange feelings about other certain cultures and ethnic backgrounds, which might as well be seen as being just plain old racist.  It could be all about that the certain way others might dress, smell and pray as well as being seen as the silent minorities without even being given the chance to explain their views fully, most unfortunately.

      However, at this day of highly sophisticated, educated and well mannered people making racist comments in particular, would really not go down all that well with the intellectual and elite portion of our society!  But why make an exception in this particular case?  You know what? Because we have all discovered a wonderful and meaningful expression which happens to be “political correctness”, right?

      So it is almost impossible to make insulting and prejudiced comments about others who might be a little bit different to ourselves, finally and thankfully!  But does that really change the certain facts of how we all actually feel the way about others, deep down inside?  Silent racism and silent majority could be just as damaging to our emotional well being. But we all knew that all along anyway!  So what is really different now? 

      May be in a way, we have all become a little bit more polite and politically correct by simply saying ” I am not a racist”.  What ever that might mean to each and every one us!  One good thing which might come out of all this debate of being a racist or not?  Simpy because in reality, the end result is always worth fighting for each and every time, right?

      Could it also be the very reason of being, at least we are getting a real chance at learning to deal with our deepest feelings of hatred, jealousy and envy of others in general?  Because at the very core and root of all these very strong emotions lies a very primal emotion which happens to be “fear” only!  Kind regards to your editors.

      Reply

    • NESLIHAN KUROSAWA says:

      05:34am | 28/03/12

      Hi Subotic,

      I can say that with all honesty that I am not surprised in the least!  Why should this particular time be any different?  That would be just asking you to work too hard and it wouldn’t be fair to you, most of all.

      Just one question though “was all that you own work or did you get someone else to help you actually write that master piece”? I just wanted to say that life is full of strange things and you might as well start getting used to the idea, right?

      Can you also manage to write more than a few words and sentences which could actually be called your own original work, for a change?  Kind regards.

    • subotic says:

      07:56am | 27/03/12

      I get “strange feelings” about NESLIHAN KUROSAWA’s comments, that’s for sure…

    • Emma says:

      06:15am | 27/03/12

      As you say we all have silent reservations against certain groups. Its not only certain races, but people that are different. We might not like the “I am vegan and dont shave my legs” people or we dont like people having certain jobs like police (which we debated in detail here). And isnt it natural to prefer those people that are similar to you and share your views? Race is not just about looking different but comes with so many different aspects (in cases prejudices) and triggers a certain picture in our heads. And if it is too different from what we are then we dont like it very much. But that does not mean we would ever hurt anyone, insult someone or even be impolite.

    • Jim says:

      04:57am | 27/03/12

      I feel it’s sad that Australia has become so PC and self-flagellating that people feel the need to pre-qualify an opinion with the “i’m not racist, but…” line.

      I could say, for example, that Doomadgee in NW Queensland has an alcohol and crime problem and most people would shrug thier shoulders. If I then said Doomadgee was an aboriginal community there are some amongst you who would immediately brand me racist! Why? I’ve stated an opinion that is based on facts.

      Even you, Tory, get on your moral high horse with comments like “all that poisonous discharge to come leaking out” about some issues, then can tear into some people who you disagree with. When it boils down, what’s the difference?

      There are many people on this forum who point the finger and accuse others of bigotry of some form, then in the same breath show their vehemont hatred of conservatives and religion. The Greens are the first ones to stick their faces in front of the camera to condemn any perceived slight against any minority group, while at the same time displaying anti-semetism without batting an eyelid.

      Those that point their fingers are usually the worst offenders.

      Reply

    • Borderer says:

      11:35am | 27/03/12

      @Shinydonkey
      Prejudice is by definition pre-judgement, my point being that by engaging the community you move beyond that and judge the individual.
      I don’t think I’m naive when I say that identifying with people moves away from racism, it’s easy to hate a group but harder to hate a person. Our society has a problem with us desperately trying to protect ourselves by not being involved and not calling people on their behaviour for fear of being labelled ourselves (that includes calling minorities whingers where appropriate). Other groups (racist ones for example) encourage others not to mix for the very reason that by mixing the barriers are broken down (racism is also not just a white person’s disease).
      Racism is a popularist crutch and really given there are laws to prevent overt acts you can at best only prove circumstancial behaviour which is to say that you can’t. There will always be doubt without concrete evidence so forgive me if I don’t cry racist every time there is a percieved injustice to a minority unless you can supply said proof.

      Genocide is the racist gold standard, anything else is bullying.

      For myself if you want to racially abuse someone (or bully) in my presence, go right ahead, I’ll be sure and ring you an ambulance when I’m done. Similarly don’t expect me to stand up for an abusive drunk being arrested by police regardless of what colour they are. 

      Changing attitudes in society starts with the person who looks back in the mirror every morning, talk to your neighbors, eat with them occasionally it’s not hard and it’s probably more than enough.

    • shinydonkey says:

      10:02am | 27/03/12

      @Borderer.  Agreed.  Being a D-bag transcends all sorts of demographic categories, however, I don’t think you’ve come to grips with the essential element of racism, which is PREJUDICE.  In general usage, ‘I’m not racist, but . . . .’ precedes an anecdote or opinion which serves to reinforce racial stereotypes, which have their basis in prejudice.  You are naive if you think that the way people are treated is attributed solely to their behaviour, and more so if you think the onus on fair treatment, inclusion and absence of prejudice is on the individual.  Racism is real, and it is a societal problem. 

      BTW the word you’re looking for re: ‘real’ racism is genocide.  I sincerely hope that is not the racist ‘gold standard’ you’re holding our society to.

    • Borderer says:

      09:38am | 27/03/12

      I throw the ‘because’ excuse out.
      Being aboriginal, a refugee, icelandic or whatever is not a reason to be alcoholic, criminal, sex offender, Manly supporter, dole bludger or any other unacceptable behaviour. Racism is a crutch for the weak to justify their weakness. Because you are Muslim doesn’t mean the Christian community doesn’t like you. It’s probably down to not associating with them and excluding yourself from the wider community, there are plenty of Christians who behave the same and nobody likes them either, just like there are plenty of Muslims people like whom are inclusive and are liked. People don’t like violent drunks who sniff petrol, being aboriginal or white doesn’t mean either of you is going to be invited over for a bbq, you’re treated like trash because of your substance abuse not because of your skin pigment.
      Real racism is found in places like the Balkens in the 90’s where you’d get shot and buried in mass grave because of race, it’s not when you’re getting your feelings hurt and you’re trying to externalise the blame.
      Being a D-bag trancends race, colour, creed, sexuality and gender and people should be allowed to call you on it without being labeled a racist, sexist etc.
      If you treat other people decently, be friendly, obey the law and contribute to society you’ll find that nobody cares what race you are, you’ll just be Mark, Sharon, Aisha, Ling, Sven, Ahmed, Pedro, Maria etc.
      The point being nobody has to try and identify you with a label as you are identified as yourself, include yourself rather than exclude, it’s what being a community is about.

    • MarkS says:

      07:44am | 27/03/12

      @Jim
      “I feel it’s sad that Australia has become so PC and self-flagellating that people feel the need to pre-qualify an opinion with the “i’m not racist, but…” line”

      Here you state the essence of what the “I’m not a racist, but” line is all about. It is not about the person who says it. It does not mean they are about to say something racist. It cannot mean that they are racist, after all real racists are proud of it.

      It says something about the society that the speaker comes from, in particular that racism is frowned upon & there tends to be a knee jerk name calling in relation to anything about race that is not the approved latest PC group think.

      In societies where racism is not frowned on nobody would feel the need to say “I’m not a racist, but”. Indeed in such societies where racism is socially accepted it is often socially required. So that the line that is heard in those societies is something like this “I am not a (insert race here) lover, but”

      So do not be worried if you are part of the “I’m not a racist, but”, it means two things, firstly that you come from a society that disapproves of racism & secondly that you are willing to think for yourself.

 
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