How a city infected by violence took back the streets

Just saying says:

08:08am | 09/08/12

A singaporean friend described their system. Some good points:

1. Corporal punishment. Public caning is humilitating and painful. It provides an excellent aversive stimulus. The crime and the punishment are intimately linked in the mind of the offender. To achieve this it needs to be carried out as quickly as possibly after the crime is committed. Justice is seen to be done by all.

2. Offenders have to make full financial restitution to the victims of their crimes. If they cannot pay the restitution is made by their labour and each hour must be signed off.

Not sure if these would work here. There needs to be a public debate. Perhaps we can compare and contrast with the effectiveness the approaches we have recently employed in Sydney and Melbourne?

The Razor says:

08:37am | 09/08/12

Just saying ,,,,,, What you are saying here is a real good deterrent, to make the crims and the anti-social face the consequences of their action. The only problem is the bleeding hearts, the Greens and weak gutless politicians will never let it happen to the over protected crims. With a weak leader like Barry O’Farrell just giving constant lip service, and supporting the Left wing whimp Att-General Greg ” Greenie ” Smith, who really seems to have O’Farrell under control, we will always have the out of control violence we have now. This majority government in NSW has become arrogant, but don’t expect the Labor opposition to be any better, the low life politicians we have to choose from these days are pathetic !

Martin says:

08:51am | 09/08/12

@Just saying

With all due respect, enough public debate. Concerned, helpless, well-meaning citizens wringing their hands crying “how do we fix this ?” while damaged victims and families watch on in frustration. Debates go round in circles and nothing is achieved. It’s gone beyond that point.

Stop talking and start doing. Change the laws. Pour taxes into law enforcement resources and come down hard on scum. Your Singaporean friend describes a harsh but effective system.

M says:

09:20am | 09/08/12

We might try enforcing our existing laws before we go down the route of corporal punishment. But if that fails then I’m all over public whippings and the like. Stocks and rotten fruit should also have never gone out of fashion.

Blind Freddy says:

11:53am | 09/08/12

Nanny with a whip?

Borderer says:

12:27pm | 09/08/12

My solution was always about education and financial punishment.

First, education, victims of violence as well as their antagonist need to participate in school based education programs. Seeing a dude in a wheel chair and a guy who’s spending time in prison, particularly if he gives his talk while in shackles can be pretty hard hitting (metaphorically speaking).

Anti social behaviour should have substantial fines attached, not a couple of hundred dollars, but a couple of grand. You go out and act like a goose, you get arrested, they fine you four grand and your spending cash evaporates, they garnish your wage or sieze your property, your boss knows, your missus is ragging you because you can’t afford to go to Bali, so you think twice before gobbing off and starting trouble. The task of debt collection should be transferrable to the tax office, they aleady have investigators, their department should be expanded to cover all fine evasion, I’ve never the sense in replicating duties accross state and federal governments.

M says:

01:43pm | 09/08/12

The financial thing has merit.

Jack says:

02:49pm | 09/08/12

@Martin what ‘laws’ do we need to change? Make assault a crime?!

That’s what you Lawn Order types just don’t get. The punishment isn’t a deterrent unless the offender is actively considering it when deciding on his actions. And the drunk footyhead isn’t actively considering a damn thing beyond ‘THAT DUDE TOTALLY LOOKED AT ME LIKE A GAY’

barry from adelaide says:

08:40am | 09/08/12

You have chosen your name well, Silly Fred.

acotrel says:

05:41am | 10/08/12

’ and as king-hit violence leaves young men clinging to life around Australia every weekend’

How many ? ? ?  What are you pushing for - a return of the death penalty ?
  When solving a problem, we should always look for the root cause.  Alcohol enhances the emotions, it does not cause violence unless the aggressiveness is in the drinker already.  I suggest their is widespread negativity, and psychological depression amongst our youth, and there are no other outlets for their emotions. I suggest the media must take some of the blame for generating frustration to sell newspapers and get ratings.

Rose says:

10:38am | 09/08/12

Actually it’s not, there has never been the approach advocated by the majority of ‘lefties’ even tried in the mainstream. What is necessary, and backed up by research, are measures to break the cycle, improved education and training, improved mental health support, improved employment opportunities and strong enforcement of appropriate laws with appropriate sentencing.
The problems we have now are caused by governments continually chopping and changing the goal posts, programs just start to get going and then funds are removed, different political influences change the objectives. We force people onto stupid programs like Work for the Dole, which have no real employment or training outcomes instead of getting them into legitimate training programs, so in effect we are forcing people to participate in a program which in most cases lessens their employability instead of increasing it, all to appease the hardliners like you who think that punishment is always the answer. The other problem is that people get caught up in the ‘fluffy’ side of social programs without putting the whole plan into action, Most good programs have an expectation placed on the client that requires their commitment to achieving change, but they also have an expectation on the organization that if followed through, their program will achieve it’s stated outcomes for the huge majority of participants.
I actually blame the hard-liners like you who have made it so that proper social programs are not adopted because of perceived softness, when in fact they have the potential to really have a big impact on individuals, families and communities.

Blind Freddy says:

11:57am | 09/08/12

Does that include all of the good things as well? Or does all the credit for that got to the “righties”.

P.S. I’m happy. You?

My Name says:

12:05pm | 09/08/12

In case it didn’t go through the first time:

When you become the victim of a crime, take the offender home, feed them, cloth them and provide them all the opportunity you feel they richly deserve.

Not that you would ever open your eyes - criminals don’t want to be educated, otherwise they would be, criminals don’t want training otherwise they would undertake it themselves, criminals don’t want employment otherwise they would be employed.  They pursue criminality because it’s the easiest option.

Spoken like a true lefty.

You believe in make believe.

You proved my point entirely.

Rose says:

12:31pm | 09/08/12

Sorry, but you’re wrong and you missed the whole point.  And by the way, I took one home, looked after him and helped him get himself sorted, he is now earning big money in the mines and doing extremely well for himself.
The best way to deal with the whole thing is prevention, ensuring that people have an alternative future mapped out. The reasons some of these kids don’t appear to give a crap about the future is that they don’t see that they have one. If you give them a genuine chance a lot of them will jump at it.
Your ignorance is as big a part of the problem as their ignorance, try reading the studies, looking at the analysis’ of successful programs, they all start with education and training, personal commitment and accountability. None of them do what you do and give up before they try!

Rose says:

12:31pm | 09/08/12

Sorry, but you’re wrong and you missed the whole point.  And by the way, I took one home, looked after him and helped him get himself sorted, he is now earning big money in the mines and doing extremely well for himself.
The best way to deal with the whole thing is prevention, ensuring that people have an alternative future mapped out. The reasons some of these kids don’t appear to give a crap about the future is that they don’t see that they have one. If you give them a genuine chance a lot of them will jump at it.
Your ignorance is as big a part of the problem as their ignorance, try reading the studies, looking at the analysis’ of successful programs, they all start with education and training, personal commitment and accountability. None of them do what you do and give up before they try!

Andye says:

03:08pm | 09/08/12

@My Name - Who are the “PC lefties”? I am a lefty and I would have no issue with the policing in the article. I dont think any of my lefty mates would either.

If you talked to a bunch of actual lefties you would probably be totally confused when they didnt all spout the ridiculous opinions you attribute to them.

Tchom says:

04:20pm | 09/08/12

Stalin was a lefty, and he loved policing.

Glad you’re off the streets.

M says:

10:49am | 09/08/12

That’s too much common sense Rose, it’ll never catch on.

Ridge says:

12:25pm | 09/08/12

Good point on the carrot analogy.  I think a pretty huge one would be encouraging attractive girls to value male thinkers, achievers, providers and protectors instead of spreading their legs for alpha thugs.

Rose says:

01:07pm | 09/08/12

Interesting turn of phrase but you have a point. If girls are brought up with self respect, a healthy dose of ambition and self esteem not so many would fall for the bad boys who may be fun for the first five minutes but who will screw them over before the day is through. If boys are brought up with less emphasis on the alpha male crap maybe more of them will become thinkers, providers and protectors.
Less Rhihanna and Chris Brown and more Pink and Ed Sheerin! .

M says:

01:41pm | 09/08/12

Now you guys are just being silly. Biology doesn’t bend over backwards for fuzzy ideaology.

Ridge says:

02:21pm | 09/08/12

Raise children of both sex better = yes.  Keeping families together with help that immeasurably.

Raise girls with even more esteem than they currently have?  More Pink? Oh god no.

Ridge says:

02:29pm | 09/08/12

@M

Oh I agree, conditionally, as Roissy once quipped “Ignore human nature at your peril”.  However, that’s why societal controls were in place - nothing destroys a society sooner than humans acting on every desire without control.

M says:

02:41pm | 09/08/12

Roissy is correct about the seductive arts, but as far as male/female roles go he’s a backwards republican stuck in a 1950’s mindset.

Rose says:

02:47pm | 09/08/12

Girls generally have quite low self esteem, what they do have is unrealistic expectations. The girls that look like they’re flaunting it and talking the talk are usually just scared little children, just like the guys down the pub talking themselves up and spending hours bulking up the muscle, trying to create an alter ego that’s bigger and stronger than they really feel.
And yes Pink!  Who would you prefer, Madonna?

M says:

03:14pm | 09/08/12

Lol at girls and low self esteem. If my experience is anything to go by it’s the exact opposite.

Lou says:

05:30pm | 09/08/12

I have worked for 7 years in diversionary training program for at risk youth. Unless you inject the funds into early prevention and intervention by the time they are coming into our programs you are dealing with disenfranchised people angry at the world and at times not willing or able to work at improving their futures. At some point people need to take responsibility for their actions and no amount of training can do that. The reality is some of these kids are too far gone by the time they are getting help. Parents need to be made accountable for their inactions. We consistently talk about the rights of the parents but the reality is the rights of the child should be paramout. Our agencies have fogotten about this and we are now suffering the consequences of policies developed years ago and inaction.We shouldnt be provided training and support to a 17 yr old violent offender we should be forcing preventative measures and strong intervention programs on inactive parents so we dont end up with angry youth.

Rose says:

02:25pm | 09/08/12

FFS can you read? I said to get rid of Work for the Dole and replace it with programs that offer training, nothing at all about letting them stay home. What is it about people like you who only pick the bits out that you think you can attack without reading the whole thing. Are you so blinded by ignorance and hatred that you refuse to entertain the idea that there are better ways of doing things than the way that has been tried for decades and proven to be an abject failure. You are a prime example of why the right is so out of touch with reality, you think you have all the answers without even understanding the original problem.
If there’s any havoc wreaking it will be the fault of those like you who refuse to take their blinkers off and look for real solutions.