As a relative newcomer to Sydney, I’ve discovered a phrase I almost never heard mentioned before I moved here: “Western Sydney”. As someone who lives in the Eastern Suburbs, the Western Suburbs aren’t really on my radar.  I have little need to go out there. 

These are The Giants. If homeless people in Western Sydney have half the PR pull of this team, the world would be a better place. For everyone. Photo: Fox Sports

I did, however, discover some new information about Western Sydney last weekend.  Its new AFL team, the Giants, took the field against the Sydney Swans’ second XI.  The hapless Giants kicked three goals and got smashed by over 100 points.

Wow. Furthermore, according to ABC’s Offsiders program, the NSW Government spent $45 million redeveloping a stadium which will play host to the team. 

All indications are that, despite Western Sydney having as much chance of winning AFL games as Britney Spears does of winning an Academy Award, the money will keep pumping into this team.

I’m trying hard not to be overly negative.  I love my sport!  However, the above scenario makes me instinctively think of one word: waste. Surely there’s a way this money could be better spent?  In fact, I just thought of one.

In December 2010, the Federal Government gave $1.9 million and the State Government $750,000 to provide housing for over 60 homeless Western Sydney residents.

This all seems to be part of the Government’s plan to halve homelessness by 2020.  This is an ambitious target because, according to the Salvation Army’s website, over 100,000 Australians are homeless every night. 

Despite this alarming number, the average wait list for public housing is 16 years.  Even if you’re in extreme risk, the waiting time is still 12 – 18 months.

Surely spending a few extra million dollars helping get people off the streets or out of poverty is a better use of money than funding a failed AFL experiment? 

Former Premier Nathan Rees thought so.  When he initially abandoned plans for the Government to fund the GWS stadium redevelopment he said, “I’d much rather spend the money on hospitals and schools.”

For the first time in my life I actually dared to utter the words, “Well said, Nathan Rees,” which was right up there with “Lindsay Lohan is so classy” in the Sentences I’ll Never Say category.

Another problem is that homelessness just isn’t very popular, whereas sport is always popular.  For example, in the USA, basketball player Kobe Bryant recently started a foundation aimed at helping homeless young families – a commendable initiative.

However, take a look at how the story was reported. The focus of the article is almost entirely on Bryant’s relationship with his new coach. 

In fact, by refusing to answer questions about anything other than homelessness, the journalist played up the “he doesn’t like his coach” angle even further!

Of course any story involving Kobe Bryant usually comes down to Bryant’s ego but, for this particular story, it seems homelessness can take a back seat.

Homelessness is just one area that could be addressed but surely there are other areas too?  For example, Federal Minister for Employment Participation, Kate Ellis recently announced a $500k program designed to help 600 disadvantaged job seekers find work.

That’s not a bad rate of return.  Just half a million dollars to help 600 people.  If the $45 million spent on Western Sydney’s stadium refurbishment was spent on this, imagine how many people’s lives could be positively impacted.

I realise that simply throwing money at issues is not the silver bullet that will end homelessness.  But surely it can’t be a bad thing? 

Homelessness and other similar issues are problems that confront thousands of Australians every day who are often overlooked.  Maybe this is our chance to take a failed AFL experiment out of the spotlight and shine it instead on an issue which deserves some more attention.

66 comments

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    • Davo from St Kilda says:

      07:20am | 25/06/11

      @Dylan - you twice use the phrase ‘failed experiment’ when referring to the Giants, even though they don’t enter the AFL until next year. Checking your bio tells us that you are a rugby fan which only proves that you are one of the sad trolls who waste everyone else’s time on this site putting down our national football code.

      When the Giants start playing next year, I guarantee you that they will be getting bigger crowds than that rugby game from day one.

    • Seano says:

      08:20am | 25/06/11

      You’d think our “national football code” would dominate the ratings? It doesn’t. You’d if it was our “national football code”  that the only AFL team in our largest city be killing it but the Swans post losses and their live games get out rated by repeats.

      Kids in Western Sydney are not interested in AFL and fair enough too, a bloke pulling up his socks for a minute before punting a ball does not compare to Jarrad Hayne or Ben Barber slashing through three tackles to crash over in the corner for a try.

      AFL is much over rated by their arrogant supporters and it’s the arrogance of people like you that have seen sports fans turn against the code in droves. Alienating the very fans you want to adopt your game even on a second team basis is just plain stupid.

      The GWS giants are doomed to failure, enjoy the crowds in their first season once the novelty wears off the AFL will be throwing money down a sink hole.

      I feel sorry for the AFL’s own fans in Tassie who have treated with as much contempt by the AFL as they have treated supporters of every other code in this country.

    • Davo from St Kilda says:

      09:32am | 25/06/11

      @ Seano - firstly, let’s not get into an argument about which sport dominates TV ratings. It has been proven time after time that AFL clearly has more people watching the game both at the ground and again on TV (both free to air and pay TV). It’s sad that you don’t understand facts when they are put right under your nose.

      As for your claim that the AFL is ’ alienating the very fans you want to adopt’ by establishing a new team, that doesn ‘t make any sense! How does giving AFL fans in Sydney a new team to support alienate AFL fans in Sydney? Only blinkered rugby fans like you are unable to look to the future and see that the sporting landscape is evolving and that people want to watch a real, exciting brand of football. Not a stale, poor copy of netball.

      I’ve said it before, Sean, and I’ll say it again. It’s disgraceful that you WANT a new sporting club to fail even before it plays its first game. True sport fans embrace sports of all sorts. They don’t hold a miserable, sad, bitter attitude hoping that a new club will fold just because that club represents a code that originated in a different state.

    • DaisyDuke says:

      09:57am | 25/06/11

      League has teams in 4 states, AFL has it them in 5 plus also plays games in NT and Tas.
      Therefore AFL is more national than League.

      The state of AFL in Sydney is not a reflection of the state of it nationally.

      I would like to point out that Swans matches are averaging 27K while reigning NRL premiers Dragons are averaging only 18K

    • Seano says:

      11:27am | 25/06/11

      @David

      “True sports fans” don’t behave like arrogant pricks about the supposed superiority of their chosen sport.

      The AFL have chosen to shove a team into area with no interest in the game whatsoever and then throw money everywhere hoping it will stick. This while the Swants are going broke and whilst true AFL heartlands are being ignored. It’s an arrogant and stupid declaration of war but hardly suprising considering the attitude of the AFL and its supports.

      Like most NRL fans I was happy with peaceful co-existence but you declare war and you back it up arrogant stupidity over how good your game of over grown forcey backs is falsely claiming it the “national code”. Yes I hope GWS will fail, more importantly I know it will.

      Sydney has an over saturated market for NRL teams, one struggling AFL team, cannot support a basketball team keep throwing good money after bad. It’s what arrogantly stupid people do.

    • DY says:

      12:13pm | 25/06/11

      DaisyDuke at the Moment there is only one team in Sydney so I can understand where the 28K come from. But if you add upo all the Sydney RL tams then the supporter base is a lot more than 28K

    • Tim says:

      01:11pm | 25/06/11

      What’s your problem with choice Seano? Are you a communist?

      What exactly has the AFL done that is arrogant? I believe Sydney got a new baseball team last year, how arrogant of them to put a baseball team in a place few people care about baseball. Judging from what I’ve heard and read the AFL have been anything but arrogant, acknowledging GWS will need decades of support.

      It seems to me the arrogant party in this “code war” is the NRL and its agents of zealotry. You arrogantly assume that the NRL OWNS Sydney and nobody is allowed to enjoy other sports. Who cares if you’re happy or not, who are you to decide what people should do and enjoy?

      The NRL/News Limited is beating up this code war to exploit petty parochialism to attract eyeballs, and you’ve bought into it hook line and sinker.

    • Seano says:

      04:36pm | 25/06/11

      @Tim

      “What’s your problem with choice Seano?”

      I have no problem with choice. How about you read what I said and try responding to that.

      “Are you a communist?”

      Are you a fking idiot or was that just one off stupid comment?

      “What exactly has the AFL done that is arrogant?”

      Declared war on every other sporting code as evidenced by their advertising campaign last season with AFL players super imposed on every other sport beating those athletes at their own games. Of course the only way an AFL player is going to be a Rugby (league/union) player, NFL player, soccer player etc at their own games is through CGI. Talk about arrogant. And lets not forget the forcing a team into Western Sydney in an already over crowded market where the Swans are struggling and AFL heartlands are being ignored.

      If you actually try and read what I’ve written you will see I was happy to give AFL a fair go, it’s the lack of a fair go attitude that AFL display in regard to every other code that has seen me and many other sports fans from north of the Victorian border now blanking the sport completely. You reap what you sow.

      ” I believe Sydney got a new baseball team last year, how arrogant of them to put a baseball team in a place few people care about baseball. “

      That’s now what I said. Either read what I said or grow up or both. I have never objected to the Swans, and there was a time I went to some of their games.

      “Judging from what I’ve heard and read the AFL have been anything but arrogant, acknowledging GWS will need decades of support.”

      Decades….snigger…yeah there’s nothing arrogant about shoving a square peg into a round hole and pounding away at it with heaps of cash for what benefit? If it is going to take decades of support how is that not a declaration of war when there are areas screaming for an AFL team. And to what end? The only result will be to have two mediocre AFL teams in Sydney instead of one good one?

      “It seems to me the arrogant party in this “code war” is the NRL and its agents of zealotry. “

      Yeah because Davo and supporters of his ilk are fair minded and reasonable.

      “You arrogantly assume that the NRL OWNS Sydney and nobody is allowed to enjoy other sports.”
      That’s not what I have said at all idiot.  Again read what I wrote and respond to that making shit up is moronic.

      “ Who cares if you’re happy or not, who are you to decide what people should do and enjoy?”

      Apparently you do champ. People can enjoy what they want I object to an orchestrated attack on something I love. Here’s news for you idiot not everyone in Australia wants to watch AFL, besides the arrogance that comes with the code the fact is it really is shit. Crap on TV as most of the action happens off the ball and overrated live…a big game of forcey backs. It’s our freedom of choice that is being threatened by arseholes who think that the AFL pumping millions into GWS over “decades” in NRL heartland is anything other but an attack on something we love.

      “The NRL/News Limited is beating up this code war to exploit petty parochialism to attract eyeballs, and you’ve bought into it hook line and sinker. “

      If you can’t see that an AFL team in NRL heartland requiring “decades” of support isn’t anything but attack on our code and our freedom to enjoy what we love then you’re a dolt.

    • Don Draper says:

      05:50pm | 25/06/11

      Go to Seano!  Couldn’t have said it better.  Exactly what I think of this AFL rubbish.  As if people in NSW and QLD are going to suddenly give up 100+ years of tradition to follow some blow-in circus farce of a game from Melbourne.  Aussie Rules people - you will *never* make serious inroads into our market.  Yours will remain what it is now, a girly, boutique sport for expatriate Victorians and assorted others, who make up the reaming balance of the larger proportion of the population of Australia.

    • Baal says:

      06:11pm | 25/06/11

      The author was pointing out that football in this country has more community and government support on many levels than the very real plight of homeless people in our community and you monkeys get into a fight discussing codes!

    • tim says:

      06:51pm | 25/06/11

      u mad Seano?

      Nothing you’ve said makes any sense and is more proof that I’m right. All you have is contradictory dribble. You’re suffering paraniod delusions if you imagine the AFL advertising the facets of the sport using attributes of other sports is a direct attack on those sports. I could take a similarly absurd position and pretend it’s proof the AFL believes itself to be no better than those other sports.

      You have a blatantly hypocritical attitude to different sports depending on how much you perceive them as a threat. You’re saying one team is okay, but two is an assault on freedom? Does this mean if Sydney gets a second baseball team you’ll be spouting your dribble in every article that mentions baseball?

      If the AFL is doomed as you’re pretending, then why are you soiling your panties so badly? Step back and read what you’ve written. You’ve lost control, everything you’ve written reeks of fear and anger. Your predictions regarding the AFL ring hollow.

      I was spot on with my observations. How does the option to play other sports an “attack on freedom”? How does it stop people doing watching and playing what they want? To the contrary, what you obviously want is to live in a communist state where everyones lives are controlled to your satisfaction.

      It’s insane.

    • tim says:

      06:52pm | 25/06/11

      No Baal, the author is using the plight of the homeless to take a pot shot at a sport he doesn’t like.

    • Dan says:

      07:21pm | 25/06/11

      Davo, want to put money on that? Thought not.

    • Seano says:

      08:00pm | 25/06/11

      @Baal - There is no rule one what one can and cannot comment on, it’s a blog. I was commenting on something that I’m interested in and that I have something to say about. Whilst I agree the plight of the homeless is terrible and governments should do more that’s really all I can realistically and fairly contribute to the debate.

      The doomed to failure GWS Gnats are topic on which I have far more to say.

    • Davo from St Kilda says:

      08:19pm | 25/06/11

      @ Tim - you’re completely right about this Seano character. I don’t mind NRL fans saying that their sport is better than my sport (AFL) - we’re all entitled to an opinion. I really enjoy the to-and-fro we get when discussing the AFL vs NRL issue. But this guy Seano takes it like a personal attack.

      In his posts (past and recent), he makes the bizarre claim that the addition of an AFL team in western Sydney is a ‘declaration of war’ and ‘an orchestrated attack’, (all his words). These terms make me think that Seano has some serious issues. He sees the extra choice in sporting teams as some kind of assault on his life.

      I’ve lost count of the number of times he’s used the term ‘arrogant’. He always makes the claim that the ‘AFL have chosen to shove a team into area (sic) with no interest in the game whatsoever’ and seems petrified by this. Does he not understand that he is not forced to attend a game of AFL, or even acknowledge its existence? He can live his life blissfully ignorant of the greatest game on earth if he chooses. Instead, he whimpers from his keyboard that his sport of choice is not the sport of choice of the majority of Australians.

    • Seano says:

      08:22pm | 25/06/11

      @tim

      “Nothing you’ve said makes any sense and is more proof that I’m right. All you have is contradictory dribble.”

      Your limited ability to comprehend basic ideas is your problem. There was obviously enough clarity in what I said for you to post a reply.

      “You’re suffering paraniod delusions if you imagine the AFL advertising the facets of the sport using attributes of other sports is a direct attack on those sports. I could take a similarly absurd position and pretend it’s proof the AFL believes itself to be no better than those other sports.”


      1.  It’s one proof amongst many.
      2.  If you’d watched the Ad and had even a limited intellect you could see the AFL where dick measuring with every other great code on the planet. Of course the only way the AFL could compete is with CGI.


      “You have a blatantly hypocritical attitude to different sports depending on how much you perceive them as a threat. You’re saying one team is okay, but two is an assault on freedom?“

      No I don’t. This is yet another argument you’ve created that I didn’t make, grow up. I actually support diversity of sport, I will repeat for you because you’re clearly thick, I have never criticised the AFL for the Swans being in Sydney and I support as many teams of different codes as Sydney can financially support. I used to consider myself a sports fan…now like many who have seen the arrogant way the AFL and its supporters treat every other major code I am a sports fan - minus AFL and I can tell you champ I’m not alone.

      I object to an orchestrated attack on NRL heartland with the propping up of a manufactured team. They did not even have the courtesy of moving a club up here with some history and tradition because that’s not the point, even the AFL with its “decades” of support to keep the GWS alive know this is more about attacking NRL than it is about filling a need, there is no need. Oh and I object to the arrogance and stupidity of some AFL supporters, you’d be case and point.


      “Does this mean if Sydney gets a second baseball team you’ll be spouting your dribble in every article that mentions baseball?”

      Yet again I say No! how many times can I point that out? Either read what I actually wrote or get someone to read it for you.

      “If the AFL is doomed as you’re pretending, then why are you soiling your panties so badly? Step back and read what you’ve written. You’ve lost control, everything you’ve written reeks of fear and anger. Your predictions regarding the AFL ring hollow.”

      Just because the attack is doomed doesn’t mean the attacker is not despised. Do you think the Brits appreciated the Nazis bombing raids or do you think they got angry? No you wont win in the end because there is no ground swell of support in GWS - good money after bad, suits me.

      “I was spot on with my observations. How does the option to play other sports an “attack on freedom”? How does it stop people doing watching and playing what they want? To the contrary, what you obviously want is to live in a communist state where everyones lives are controlled to your satisfaction.”

      Are you on medication? You communist comment not only misses the point but it is little more than moronic trolling.

      “It’s insane. “

      On that you’d be a good judge and example.

    • Davo from St Kilda says:

      09:34pm | 25/06/11

      @ Seano - you are seriously deluded. Can you make just ONE post without using the word arrogant - it’s getting pretty tired, pal? We’re all getting a little sick and tired of your nonsensical arguments. Face it chump - AFL is better supported in any category you care to define. By a country mile. Even the NRL fans on this site have stopped supporting you.

    • Seano says:

      11:00pm | 25/06/11

      @Davo - How like you to fail to address the issues raised, I guess it’s easier to hide behind an ad hominem attack.

      Your delusions of grandeur regarding the AFL are laughable. You couldn’t have provided a better example of the arrogance of the AFL and it’s supporters than your “greatest game on earth” comment. The “greatest game on earth” which gets beaten by repeats of the Iron Chef laugh out funny.

      Anyway whilst you carry on with your deluded rants about the glory that is AFL, I will enjoy watching the GWS die a slow, painful and expensive death.

    • tim says:

      08:00am | 26/06/11

      Seano, the irony in your posts is hilarious. You seem incapable of making a coherent point or addressing any of my points, and accuse others of your myopic afflictions. The only thing your “evidence” proves is your own derangement.

      Your denials are ludicrous. It’s a just a football club, it’s just another choice for people. You don’t have to take any notice, you don’t have to give them your money or your time, you don’t have to stop watching or playing other sports. Yet, you have an attitude that this choice is bad, that people should not be allowed to choose how to spend their time, that should should only participate in the activities of which YOU approve. In other words, you act like a communist dictator planning how everyone should live their life. If you can’t understand this, then maybe it’s because of your “limited ability to comprehend basic ideas”?

      If you’re so concerned about diversity of sport, and believe the existence of another choice is somehow a detriment to diversity, then surely you must agree the number of NRL clubs in Sydney should be reduced? Where is you anger at this outrage against diversity inflicted on us by the NRL? I trust you’re equally angry about the six million a year burned propping up the orchestrated Melbourne cheaters, and there’s a hell of a lot less interest in League in Melbourne than there is of Aussie Rules in Sydney.

      You can spin as much laughable BS as you like about your reasons for hating the AFL, but nobody believes you. Your fear is palpable. You’re as transparent as a window.

    • Seano says:

      10:25am | 26/06/11

      @tim - Ok moron I’ll try and keep this real simple for you.

      The AFL didn’t put a team into an area that has no interest in your code which will require “decades” of support while ignoring AFL heartlands screaming for their own team while other teams like the Swans struggle not to go broke if they were not declaring war. The AFL are not throwing stacks of money at schools in GWS whilst ignoring their own grassroots areas if their intention was anything but damaging their competitors.

      I can’t make it simpler for you. Ask and adult to help.

      BTW.

      I’ve already shot down your moronic argument about wanting to control what people watch, the GWS is not about filling a need there is no need.

      I’ve already shot down your moronic argument about not liking diversity, I support every other team in Sydney including the Swans with whom I’ve never had a problem having attended a number of their games before I got fed up with the arrogant attitude of morons like you.

      Continue to rant on about communist dictators if these simple concepts are too hard for you.

    • darragh scully says:

      09:05pm | 26/06/11

      Ah Davo from St. Kilda. Where you may feel you have hit the nail on the head you have really just expanded the debate about the problem. Id aggree with you about bias, perhaps thats what this guys agenda acctually is.

      Though if you think about any Industry, AFL is a pretty good industry. It surely provides jobs, entertainment, healthy exercise attitudes (yes its dangerous), and its a true blue social cohesion mechanisism in our community. I dont think for one minute however that not funding the needs of the AFL and instead funding homelessness is a good idea at all. Not in the short or long term would it make sense.

      Though both homelessness and supporting the AFL are acheivable. Its alot easier to fund the AFL. Its allready succesfull and your damned sure its going to be a long time before that gravy train runs dry. Homeless people on the other hand, weve allways had homeless people, in fact there was a time when we were all homeless.

      I think that helping people overcome homelessness is a very tough problem. For someone to have a home, they need to be able to keep up with the responsibilities that come with that. Often the problem is that they have allready expended access to the resources most people rely on to fulfill these responsibilities. Just building them homes to live in does not change that. In fact it ussually just shows them how much of a dead end they have run into, one thats not easy to come back from.

      What are the issues ussually faced by homeless people. Debt, Unemployment, Psychoactive Substances, Mental Illness, Criminal History, and so on. These problems dont just go away by building the homeless people a house to live in.

      What suprises me the most is that you wait up to 16 years to get a place from any of the States. I wonder if the 100000 homesless people includes the people allready housed in state houseing, refugees, and aboriginals that choose to live in the wild. I know it includes people whom sleep on mates couches and live in dorms and caravan parks etc. As with all stats people should be cautious with these figures.

      I guess the person that works out this problem will be the same as the person who works out the formulae for world peace. However its good to see that Kobe Bryant and the CEO’s in the CEO Sleep out are still not giving up on problems. Though its like throwing money at someone in corony care, its nice but its useless. Whats needed is feet on the ground, intervention, action, support and direction. Though how many people in homes with jobs etc, are contributing to the increasing line of homeless people. ha ha. Its like these days everyone wins, I dont think so. Though the bigger the population gets and the thinner resources gets stretched, were getting closer to a major outbreak of disease. Stress: Portrait of Killer, which can be viewed on Youtube really explains the reality of the Human Condition. Well worth a watch.

    • Septimus says:

      07:23am | 25/06/11

      “I’ve discovered a phrase I almost never heard mentioned before I moved here: “Western Sydney”. “

      You are obviously new to the country as well then?

      Welcome!

    • MK says:

      09:43am | 25/06/11

      He lost all credibility in his first sentence,
      I have never lived in sydney,
      heard the phrase countless times,
      well familiar with it and implied connotations,
      then again i don’t have my Head stuck up my Wahooo!

      What if the world didnt waste money on PR,
      then you might be able to write a half decent article on the plight of the homeless without coming across like a right Banker

    • Lexi says:

      08:01am | 25/06/11

      As someone from the Eastern Suburbs, you probably aren’t against the SCG improvements over the past couple of seasons and aren’t concerned that this funding could have been spent on relieving homelessness.

      And, by the way, far be it from me to defend this state government (or any NSW government for that matter - they all let us down) but the NSW Govt spends far more than $750k on housing the homeless every year. You might like to read the annual report of Housing NSW (the “Housing Commission”). Between providing public housing, bond and advance rent for private rentals and emergency housing (hotel/motel rooms) Housing NSW funds accommodation for hundreds of thousands of otherwise homeless people and families every year.

      Why is any improvement for “the Western Suburbs” money wasted that could be spent on housing the homeless, but closing down post offices in the inner west, east and north, where there’s another around the corner, the worst thing that could happen to man kind? Sorry, the post office thing might not be directly relevant, but it was the best example of the precious darlings east of Redfern and their big issues. They should try coming to the country where the next post office might be hundreds of kms away.

    • Tim says:

      08:20am | 25/06/11

      Look everyone agrees (well except deluded people like Davo) that the Giants will fail miserably, but the premise of your article that we should have spent that money on homelessness is silly.
      This argument could be used for nearly any form of government spending.
      Government threw a fireworks display, what about homeless people?
      Government supported the world cup soccer bid,what about homeless people?

      This line of argument won’t get you anywhere.
      The infrastructure built in Western Sydney will get used whether GWS are
      successful or not.
      You would be far better off promoting the benefits to the community that greater homeless funding would create rather than denigrating funding for a sporting ground.

    • Davo from St Kilda says:

      09:44am | 25/06/11

      @ Tim - everybody agrees? Looks like you’ve been talking to rugby fans, however few of them are left in the country. The Giants will dominate your city despite your pathetic hope that it won’t.

      AFL wins both at the ground and also on TV (including pay TV - do you really want me to again post the stats that prove this, Tim? Don’t make me embarrass you again in public. It was fun at first, now it’s just sad).

    • Tim says:

      01:30pm | 25/06/11

      I agree that NRL trolls want to believe GWS will fail, but we all know that isn’t going to happen, otherwise you lot wouldn’t be making such a fuss.

    • Seano says:

      04:39pm | 25/06/11

      @Tim - we are making a fuss because it’s a pretty disgusting tactic, pumping millions in to a doomed venture in order to do as much damage as possible.

      That said if you think that the GWS will be a success after “decades” of support then you are wrong. Even the AFL is not a bottomless pit of money. And how offensive to the AFL fans already in Sydney with the Swans posting losses and the AFL propping up a team with only a manufactured ground swell of support behind it.

    • Davo from St Kilda says:

      06:49pm | 25/06/11

      @ Adam – you are wrong. Check this out:

      http://www.talkingfooty.com/tv_ratings_2011.php .

      It shows that 6.6 million aussies watch AFL on free to air ‘always or occasionally’, compared to only 3.9 million who watch the NRL on free to air. Also, 1.5 million fans watch AFL on pay TV while 1.3 million watch NRL (even 1.4 million watch the soccer on pay TV).

      Read the article, pal, and you’ll see that the AFL is watched by more people on a weekly and season basis than the NRL. And by a huge margin.  Do you finally get it?

      Use a bit of common sense, pal. The TV networks wouldn’t pay double the amount for the right to broadcast AFL compared to the amount they pay for the NRL if fewer people watched the AFL on the tele, would they?  That wouldn’t make sense now, would it pal?

    • tim says:

      06:54pm | 25/06/11

      Meh, it’s their money. If they’re wasting it, as you so obviously DON’T believe, then what’s it to you? Come on, make something up quick.

    • Seano says:

      07:56pm | 25/06/11

      ”  Meh, it’s their money. If they’re wasting it, as you so obviously DON’T believe, then what’s it to you? Come on, make something up quick.”

      You find basic comprehension challenging. I’ll repeat it for you again as you’re obviously challenged. The AFL could stick the money up their arse for all I care. The sensible thing would obviiously be to invest it in an overlooked AFL heartland like Tassie or helping struggling clubs like the Swans the objection is to the attack on the NRL by creating a manufactured team in an NRL heartland which never has a chance of being a self-sustaining viable entity but will hopefully damage their main rival.

      I’d draw a bigger picture for you but it is impossible to blog in crayon.

    • tim says:

      08:03am | 26/06/11

      Seano, you’re a lark. I love your lame insults, they tell me three things, 1) you care, 2) you have no argument and 3) you have no imagination. If the “AFL could stick the money up their arse for all I care”, then why does the prospect of them wasting it on another AFL team in Sydney make you behave like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8pR1rZZHEs

    • Seano says:

      10:08am | 26/06/11

      @Tim - I’d rather be a lark than a moron. Yet again you fail to address a single point raised. Hardly surprising as clearly debate is beyond you.

      The comment “for all I care” clearly refers to the fact that I don’t care what they do with their money except when they do something that affects me.

      It’s getting hard to make these arguments simpler for you.

    • Gregg says:

      08:24am | 25/06/11

      Do you not think Dylan that the money spent on refurbishment of the ground will have see considerable employment take place and then the flow on effect of having an AFL football side in the area could see the area prosper more.
      You might even have people from outside of the area travelling in to help the cash flow.
      Sure it is going to take the Giants some time to be competitive, the Brisbane Lions, Sydney Swans and other sides based outside of Victoria being examples of that, some things taking time and a lot of planning.

    • Davo from St Kilda says:

      09:51am | 25/06/11

      @ Gregg - well said. Too bad that so many people in Sydney are fearful and negative and hope that the Giants will fail.

    • Fiddler says:

      02:11pm | 25/06/11

      Davo, they aren’t fearful and negative, they just don’t care.

    • Paltry says:

      09:28am | 25/06/11

      SA Govt is spending $535M upgrading Adelaide Oval to accommodate AFL (which already has a stadium here).  You Sydneysiders don’t know what you’re talking about.

    • DY says:

      09:56am | 25/06/11

      Dylan what about Canberra Stadium will also be upgraded to the tune of $2.6 million over two years.
      Would that not better be spent on the homeless of Canberra?
      There is more money spent on sporting grounds then on people who need it. Neither Labor or Liberal care about the homeless http://www.ausleisure.com.au/default.asp?

    • Seano says:

      11:29am | 25/06/11

      @Daisy - there’s no such thing as “more national” it’s either national or it’s not. And the only way it could be national is if we all watched and loved it. Clearly we all don’t.

    • Tim says:

      01:23pm | 25/06/11

      By your definition there’s no such thing as a national game, because even in the US there’s people don’t like American football and even in the UK there’s people don’t like soccer.

      The fact is that unlike the NRL, the AFL has a club in every major city of Australia, and plays games in every state and draws good attendances to all games, that qualifies it to be a national game over and above rugby league, union or soccer. Just because there may be no AFL supporters at your local redneck leagues club doesn’t make the game any less national.

    • Seano says:

      04:47pm | 25/06/11

      In the US the NFL and MLB dominate summer and winter in every state.

      In the UK soccer dominates during the winter months and they invented the sport anyway.

      In Aus the AFL does not dominate the two most populous states. Therefore claiming you are “the national code” because you are preceived to be more national is little more than the arrogant stupidity that we’ve come to expect of the AFL and supporters like yourself.

      When Swans live games are getting out rated by repeats of Iron Chef you’re no where near as good as you think you are.

    • tim says:

      06:55pm | 25/06/11

      Burp. You can change your criteria as much as you like, it doesn’t change the fact that the AFL is national, has a national profile, national media coverage and national appeal. Something the NRL can only ever dream about.

    • Seano says:

      09:20pm | 25/06/11

      Another point too difficult for you to understand champ? I’ll dumb it down.

      To be national you have to dominate everywhere..you don’t!

      Also genius, there is a difference between pointing out the arrogant stupidity of the AFL calling itself our “national code” and making any claims about the NRL. I am pointing out the former not cliaming the later.

      Try to keep up, it’s not that hard.

    • tim says:

      08:26am | 26/06/11

      You’re hilarious Seano, you can barely write a coherent sentence, don’t even understand your own arguments and accuse me of a comprehension problem. Your floating criteria doesn’t mean diddly, you can believe what you want all by lonesome, but the rest of us live in the real world. The AFL has a national footprint, it is clearly national,  and clearly “more national” than any other football code.

      It’s always the same with you guys. You keep adding to an ever growing list of caveats to maintain a delusion. But, but, but, and, and, and. It’s never the simplest and most obvious explanation is it? I’ll concede, the AFL is not national because it doesn’t play a game with more than 100,000 people on the second Tuesday in the same month as a blue moon. Does that make you happy?

      Honestly, your position is so absurd that you’d be better of arguing that the moon is made of cheese.

    • tim says:

      08:33am | 26/06/11

      Oh yeah, I forgot. Victoria is Australia’s second most populous state, not Queensland as you incorrectly assume. Also, given the AFL is extremely popular in southern NSW, by your criteria the NSWRL doesn’t even dominate that state.

      Have a nice day Seano.

    • Tally says:

      12:39pm | 25/06/11

      Im a swans supporter but I hope the giants are a great sucess, I really mean it. Given the evidence though, it’s probably going to take many many seasons. I think the core question here is what’s more important- entertainment or the restoration of life? Dylan raises a good point- govt should put their money where their mouth is.

    • Shifter says:

      05:14pm | 28/06/11

      @Tally - you just want a little brother team to beat up on like the Dockers wink

    • Lesley Laurel says:

      12:50pm | 25/06/11

      all homeless people should be housed in government housing immediately.
      When Kevin Rudd was Prime Minister Of Australia, homelessness and homeless people were a special priority.
      Under Ms Gillard, detention centre accommodation for overseas homeless has been a a special priority. Australia’s homeless people get nothing but the dole bludger tag, told to get non existent jobs, and get treated by social lepers by their fellow Australians,. Their family, their friends and their neighbours avoid them with AVO legislation and police.

    • Fiddler says:

      02:15pm | 25/06/11

      If someones “friends, family and neighbours” all hate someone and get AVO’s on them and call the police, maybe its got a little more to do with them rather than being society’s fault. Most of these people are in this situation because they can’t by any standards fit in with society or other people

    • Hayley says:

      09:40am | 27/06/11

      Lesley it’s an unrealustic ideal to sayall homeless need to be housed immediately. Many don’t want to. Homelessness is such a complicated and multi-faceted issue. in many ways instead of buying houses to place these dear and wonderful people .. We need to think long term bigger picture. Invest in preventative mental health care in our nation; support the family and encourage families to stay together; education and literacy; community developments where our society can rediscover the old fashioned joy of being in relationship with our neighbored etc

      And @ fiddler, the problem may just be with these people, but to not bother with them because of such is not a solution. Many homeless have had trauma in their lives that informs the way they respond to the world around them. Some of us cope with life’s dissapointmenrs in more socially acceptable ways.

    • Lesley Laurel says:

      12:55pm | 25/06/11

      Like school children, illegal immigrants get detention centres in which to learn and live. Homeless people get nothing but scorn.
      Illegal immigrants are considered more value to Australia than homeless people.

    • david says:

      01:15pm | 25/06/11

      Just wondering. Why do AFL and NRL supporters show so little respect for one another? It doesn’t seem to happen between other sports.

      It seems a bit anal that fans of either code would do attendance tallies or research viewership figures about their sport. I’m sure the players don’t…

    • stephen says:

      03:39pm | 25/06/11

      I’m sure the players do…when it’s time to negotiate their salaries.

    • Tim says:

      01:16pm | 25/06/11

      The fallacy in this article is the $45 million government spending is not just directed at football, but also helps the Royal Show and will contribute to a net return to taxpayers thanks to increased tourism and patronage. This gives the government more money to spend on other programs.

      Your bias is obvious though, because there have been numerous other examples on which you could base your article, not the least of which was the government paying the NRL $50 million dollars to hold the grand final in Sydney, as if it was going anywhere else anyway.

    • Shane says:

      02:05pm | 25/06/11

      False dichotomy. Jeeze I hate it when someone says we’ve just spent $$$ on Y and nothing on Z. If there is a problem with perceived funding for Z lobby to get it fixed. But saying that Y got a buttload of money in spite of Z is ridiculous. You could say that about any government program except when they do say they did discontinue a program to pay for something else.

      And the Giants have failed? Mate, they haven’t kicked a ball in anger in the AFL yet. Get back to me in 20 years because that is how long the AFL expects the program to take.

    • Western Magpie says:

      07:08pm | 25/06/11

      I’d rather watch NRL on the telly (I’m a league fan), but I’d much prefer to watch AFL at the ground. Rugby Union is the sweet game though.

      The NRL continues to fail to draw people to the ground. How can you even pretend the NRL is the number one code. AFL s**ts all over it week in, week out.

      When a waiting list is 16 years long for housing, it’s fairly obvious government priorities are in the wrong place, regardless of where else the money is being spent. I mean, did we really need to bid on the FIFA World “Corrupt” Cup? You don’t bid for a world cup unless you know you are going to win FFS. How much was it? $45000 000?

      What a diabolical waste of my money.

    • chris petters says:

      12:58pm | 26/06/11

      Not sure if serious, “You don’t bid for a world cup unless you know you are going to win ” trully rediculous statement the olympic games took 3 bids to secure It’s the reality of international sport you dont get these problems with domestic codes.

    • Richard says:

      09:29pm | 25/06/11

      No Dylan, just no. Throwing money at economic problems like “poverty” and “homelessness” is not the solution. You must think like an economist to work out how to solve those problems, and the answer is not more handouts.

      Its an economic fact that all human behaviour is incentivised. That’s the way life works, and its a good thing that life works that way as well. People need to be provided incentives and oppurtunities to lift themselves and out poverty and homelessness themselves, through their own effort, not given incentives to just sit there with the pathetic expectation of perpetual handouts.

    • Lloyd says:

      09:33pm | 25/06/11

      Good article.Maybe this will prove to all the whingers who keep going on about how we shouldn’t be giving our money to foreign aid when we have our own problems.We have the money.We just spend it on a lot of crap.

    • Don Draper says:

      08:55am | 26/06/11

      Ah, the old AFL vs NRL chestnut!  Hey guys, let’s just get the Sydney vs Melbourne one going, that’s always good.  Or a WA (or Tassie) vs the rest of Australia one started…  Or Adelaide (hehehe, what a joke of a ‘city’).  Funny, when you think that seano and tim might well be politically on the same side - perhaps would even clink glasses together in united joy as Labor goes down the toilet at the next election, but yet would come close to blows over the semantics of how many people watch or follow each respective football code.  Love it!

    • Seano says:

      11:12am | 26/06/11

      Actually at the next election I would be open to voting for a small L liberal party. Obviously that means the LNP will have to dump Abbott first and drag itself back from the far right. Which doesn’t look likely considering they already think the election is won even though it’s two years away.

    • Hayley says:

      09:43am | 27/06/11

      Irony much? These comments sort of tell me there is more passion and conviction behind footy codes than people living rough on the street!

    • Mark says:

      10:29am | 27/06/11

      $45 Million wasted that could have gone to my team St Kilda.

    • Dank Castle says:

      05:14pm | 27/06/11

      Homelessness is a problem due to the huge shortage of housing in Australia. We can solve the dwelling shortage by converting parks to subterranean housing. Build underground and let students reside there. I don’t know how good this technology is yet as it doesn’t exist and there are technical problems with the scale of what I’m proposing, but this is no fantasy land idea. Convert all parks, including golf courses, into multistory underground cities, leaving parks intact for the enjoyment of people willing to pay for real housing. Imagine how many will migrate with my future technology for underground homes. Its possible to settle desert using this technology. 2/3 of Australia is pure desert, another 3/4 is arid grassland. The population would boom faster if not limited by physical constraints of living above ground. 70% of our mining interests are overseas owned plus a few local mining jobs so many engineers would be employed, increasing global wealth. The commonwealth knows it must tax wealth outflow, most of the wealth remaining in the country from mining was pissed up against the wall by bears whinging on AustralianPropertyForum.com and buying plasmas and iPads. My idea will solve the problems making Australia more successful than before.

      The problem is the housing market in Australia is both undersupplied and overpriced. The irresponsible GFC stimulus simply kicked the can down the road and now the crash will be twice as bad. I expect to see prices down 30-40% within a couple of years. Auction results across Sydney and Melbourne are in freefall (see http://australianpropertyforum.com/blog/main/3541120 for details) and stock is building up on the market at a rapid rate. Unless vendors drop prices to meet the market, their homes won’t sell. Simple as that. For the real estate speculators, the party is well and truly over.

      Dank Castle
      AustralianPropertyForum.com

    • jim morris says:

      11:36am | 28/06/11

      I would like to introduce the concept ‘the ratchet principle’ (pronounced ratshit).
      It describes the phenomenon experienced by people who through bad luck or bad decisions sink financially. Every notch down gets easier but every attempt to rise back up becomes more difficult. For example, you lose your job and can’t pay the rent. Without a place to live you can’t get a job and by defaulting on your rent you have been put on a black list and it is almost impossible to get a place to live. You can’t pay your phone bill so without a phone you are on your way to being a hobo forever. Ratshit!

 

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