Home, to a nation of hooded thieves

Aidan says:

07:55am | 10/08/11

And blame “video nasties” for the whole thing.

James says:

08:57am | 10/08/11

It’s unlikely to stop the enlightened commentariat from blaming her

Brian says:

09:17am | 10/08/11

Thatcher was primeminister last time it happened (early 1980s when I was still living in London) and did nothing of the sort. She had no idea how to deal with it and constant images of police lines moving backwards being showered with petrol bombs and missiles were the order of the day.

Tony of Poorakistan says:

09:44am | 10/08/11

Exactly - let’s see how these pieces of filth react when THEY are the ones on the receiving end of a weapon.

Bring in the tanks and let them have it.

Thomas Anderson says:

09:46am | 10/08/11

Not the best idea, as it could encourage more people to join the rioters.

Then again, if the PM or the Queen herself went on TV and explained to the people that the city is being damaged beyond belief, innocent people who get in the way get hurt etc etc, and the fastest way to resolve the situation is to send in the troops, I’m sure the normal people would not mind.

Remember, it is a very small minority of thugs that are doing this, most Londoners are quite shocked and appalled and want these idiots to stop.

Kika says:

09:53am | 10/08/11

She still is around. She just lives in Belgravia these days and not Downing St.

fml says:

10:37am | 10/08/11

tony,

that was the exact kind of behavior that started this.

gobsmack says:

12:41pm | 10/08/11

They need another royal wedding.

Another Chris says:

05:51pm | 10/08/11

Anti-Rioting weapons should involve Airport Fire Trucks firing 3000L/s and Guns kitted out with Rubber Bullets. Bring In Tazers too.
Dogs and Batons aren’t enough. Put the fear of God into these brats

little johnny says:

07:42pm | 10/08/11

Bah! This is what happens when workers tax goes to the greedy rich. Workers just want their share…

Robbie Kaysar says:

10:09pm | 10/08/11

To all these fools here jumping on the “race & multiculturalism” band-wagon, pull your heads out of your asses and stop hiding behind your fingers.

This is just a case of thugs, and gangs taking opportunity of a small protest that happened and was handled poorely.
Dont start with this rubbish of “This is all the immigrants, muslims, etc” we’ve heard it all before, infact, i just roll my eyes when i see those comments. It shows how ignorant the writer is. Why would muslims and hindus, and sikhs, smash things around, then run to protect their own praying chambers?

Have you seen how soccer hooligans behave when their team loses or wins?. You can clearly see from the footages it’s a mix. A gang is a gang. Its identified by the words, thugs, not by their race.

nafe says:

07:33am | 10/08/11

Agreed thats how they started, but now every race is involved in the opportunism, looting and downright thuggery.

All becasue a black drug dealer was shot…. booo fu#$@ng hoo.

gobsmack says:

07:56am | 10/08/11

They look no different to the LA riots that ensued after the Rodney King bashing.  Opportunistic rioting and looting by those with the least stake in society.

Super D says:

08:23am | 10/08/11

No they aren’t Erick.  In modern Britain casual disregard for the law is divided along class not racial lines.

Erick says:

08:42am | 10/08/11

Relevant links. I’ve posted these twice before now: Why aren’t they getting through?

The racial aspect of the riots.

The importance of the perception of legitimacy in preserving the peace.

Mankind says:

08:49am | 10/08/11

You’re a bigot who’ll use any excuse. Don’t let the fact that the rioters have come from all different races get in the way. Pauline Hanson would be proud.

Tom says:

08:56am | 10/08/11

This is the result of Orwellian post modernism. Criminals are victims. Bad is good. Police are wrong. Law and order is wrong.

At the moment the innocent, struggling shop keepers are suffering, while these evil animals devour them.

Thanks lefties. Let’s hope for the sake of balance a few doctor’s wives, pop singers and BBC actors also get beaten up.

marley says:

09:04am | 10/08/11

Whatever the original make-up of the rioters, from what I’m reading and seeing, they’re now multi-racial.  These are class riots, not race riots.

Hamish says:

09:15am | 10/08/11

Nafe, the shooting is just a convenient excuse to steal shit and generally make themselves feel like bigger men. The welfare state and softly softly approach to policing that has overtaken the UK (and largely been copied in Victoria) is to blame. Where’s the tear gas and rubber bullets? Send a few Israeli troops over there and the scum will retreat back to their hovels quick smart.

Kika says:

09:21am | 10/08/11

Erick - this isn’t a race riot. Check the people - they are just Vicki Pollard kids running riot. White, black, Asian, Middle Eastern the whole lot is there. Pull your head in.

Sophie says:

09:30am | 10/08/11

These aren’t race riots.. They shouldn’t even be credited with being ‘riots’. This is just absolute anarchy: vicious, feral and indefensible. Don’t turn it into something it’s not, it gives it credibility that it doesn’t deserve. These communities are sticking together whatever their ethnicity. These guys are out for blood and whatever they can get.

Anna C says:

09:39am | 10/08/11

I totally agree with Tom’s assessment of the riots. This is what happens when you disempower authority figures like teachers and the police with PC rubbish and empower criminals, young people and welfare bludgers to believe that they are hard done by and ‘victims’ of today’s society.

I can’t believe the stupidity of these people in destroying their own communities. I heard an interview on the radio this morning with some of the young perpetrators of the riots. They seemed to think it was all great fun and a diversion during their school holidays.  They seemed to think that they actions were totally justified because they wanted new trainers etc. Meanwhile local family businesses lay in ruins. What a sad indictment of today’s society. I hope they lock them all up and throw away the key.

Tony of Poorakistan says:

09:42am | 10/08/11

I agree tenfold Erick. I hope our Government takes heed

Kika says:

09:52am | 10/08/11

Hamish - no softly softly approach by London cops. I daresay they are focused too much on potential terrorism than minor thug crime in the council estates.

MarkS says:

09:53am | 10/08/11

Multiculturalism has a part in this but not as you suggest Erick. They are not race riots, but poor riots.

Firstly let’s get our terms clear, Multiculturalism is where people of differing cultures live near each other & they to keep their cultures separate. Multiracial is where people of differing races live near each other. Many people use Multicultural when they mean Multiracial.

Multicultural societies are inherently less stable as there is a lower level of trust within the society, this results in the most marginalised members of society feeling no contact with society outside their little enclave. The most marginalised areas in Britain are poor housing estates inhabited mainly but not entirely by people of ethnic minorities.

Multiracial societies in the absence of being Multicultural become non-multiracial societies though interbreeding within several generations.

The rioters are gangs of people of lower socioeconomic status from public housing estates & they reflect on a cultural & ethic basis the makeup of these estates. Mainly African or South Asian descent with a leavening of poor white trash. 

Multiculturalism as practised in Britain clearly has failed. I do note however that there are many reports of middle aged people in these communities berating the looters, so all is not lost, there is a reserve of decent people left within these areas. 

What the road is from here I do not know, but it must include a harsher use of the law, the enpowerment of the good people with those areas & an abandonment of multicuturalism as it is practised in Britian.

Liz says:

09:58am | 10/08/11

Doubt it very much, a cheap comment which in no way addresses the complexities of a country gone down the drain.

RyaN says:

10:32am | 10/08/11

Also this is what happens when you take corporal punishment out of schools and ban parents from disciplining their kids.
You get a nation of complete and utter dropkicks.

fml says:

10:38am | 10/08/11

Hamish,

this is what happens when you cut benefits and lower university intake. What do you expect them to do. this is a warning to all those who call for the giro to be cut. No money, no food, no opportunity, what hope do they have?

fml says:

10:42am | 10/08/11

MarkS,

This is not a result of a multicultural society, this is a result of a government that is not caring for its poor, take away benefits, and opportunity to succeed, enforce a police state and people will riot. What would you do if as a result of the governments inefficiency there is massive unemployment, you have no job, no education and nothing to do?

Putting this down to simply a difference in race which is epitomised by multiculturalism is absolute rubbish. What about the french and russian revolutions? largely singular race countries and they revolted? Not because of multiculturalism, but a result of inefficient government neglecting its constituents.

Mankind says:

10:43am | 10/08/11

No Erick’s of course is right…he has after all found someone opinion pieces to back himself up with.

fml says:

11:10am | 10/08/11

this is not a race issue, its an concerned with disenfranchised youth.

This is an extract form an article.

Most of the people who will be writing, speaking and pontificating about the disorder have absolutely no idea what it is like to grow up in a community where there are no jobs, no space to live or move, and the police are on the streets stopping and searching you as you come home from school. The people who do will be waking up this week in the sure knowledge that after decades of being marginalised and harassed by the police, after months of seeing any conceivable hope of a better future confiscated, they are finally on the news.
In one NBC report, a young man in Tottenham was asked if rioting really achieved anything.
‘‘Yes,’’ said the young man. ‘‘You wouldn’t be talking to me now if we didn’t riot, would you? Two months ago we marched to Scotland Yard, more than 2000 of us, all blacks, and it was peaceful and calm and you know what? Not a word in the press. Last night a bit of rioting and looting and look around you.’’

Jordy says:

11:18am | 10/08/11

No not race riots nor multiculturalism manifest…..it is spoiled kids who have been handed everything they have on a platter from parents and government and have never had to work or earn anything in their lives.  Purely selfish and criminal without a care for anyone.

Hamish says:

11:33am | 10/08/11

fml, these people are not a state funded university place away from being CEO of a multinational company. Welfare enslaves people in hereditary disadvantage and creates dysfunctional, entitled and infantilised man-babies who live in a fantasy land of endless government largesse where somehow they’re not to blame for their unemployability and criminality. People like you actively aid and abet this attitude. Luckily people like you don’t live in unfortunate suburbs where these sorts of riots occur so you don’t pay the price for your own role in this sort of inexcuseable violence. Poor people do. Congratulations.

John says:

11:56am | 10/08/11

fml
Is not comparing these “riots” with the result of the oppression of French and Russian aristocracies a bit excessive, and comparing it with a revolution a bit premature?

Punters Pal says:

11:57am | 10/08/11

Yes, fml. Get the violins out. They are just thugs and crims. Your pandering of their “marginalisation” is what has caused these problems in the first place.

Tom says:

11:58am | 10/08/11

fml, “no food”, bwwaahahahah. Most had mobile phones. “university cuts”, most of them have never done a day’s study in there lives. Are you serious or just trolling?

Defender of the faithless! says:

12:26pm | 10/08/11

Go live there Erick and then provide an informed opinion.

fml says:

12:53pm | 10/08/11

Not trolling,

Just think its much deeper than just a simple

“get a job” bag of sawdust argument. Tell me why there are little cases of rioting and social disorder in countries with high employment opportunities?

1 job fro 54 seekers in the borough of haringey, saying they are just unemployed hooligans is the catch cry of the riche elite who do not want to counter the failings of the government. Yes they havnt studied a day in the lives, why? well what is the option for the poorer kids when the benefits are cut and they cant afford school equipment.

AdamC says:

01:35pm | 10/08/11

“1 job fro 54 seekers in the borough of haringey ...”

Yeah, fml, but London is a big place with an extensive underground train system specifically designed to enable people to commute outside their home borough. It is quite instructive that you have such a low opinion of the less well off that you regard them as incapable of purchasing a tube ticket and travelling to work like the rest of us.

I am with Hamish, these riots are yet more evidene (just throw it on the pile) that the ‘welfare enablement’ approach to social disadvantage is a catastrophic failure. The fact is, these people were better off when they were toiling as downstairs domestics for the idle gentry. At least then they had a work ethic and means of personal support outside of the dole and revenue from drug pushing.

Tom says:

01:41pm | 10/08/11

fml, “unemployed hooligans is the catch cry of the riche elite”.

Wrong, it is the battle cry of the shopkeepers and other assorted people that have to work for a livelihood.

will says:

01:52pm | 10/08/11

Interesting how Erick, who just days ago was splitting hairs about the definition of racism is suddenly happy to oversimplify what is clearly a complex situation by asserting that is solely about race.

fml says:

01:58pm | 10/08/11

Ok well lets look at the countries with a stable and effective welfare system with low unemployment and access to education, Australia a prime example, compare it to countries with a lowering or non-existent welfare systems such as the UK and the US, then compare the level of social unrest.

An effective and stable welfare system is not the cause but the answer to social unrest.

chungo mung says:

02:12pm | 10/08/11

So sorry erick, we the people should have listened when YOU linked oh wise one.

Tom, slap this this around your rightie agenda mate, Orwell of course caused this with his insights and ideas, it is of him and his times ideas, not the status quo of our rich modern world.

Thankyou fml, some bloody reason.

How do people latch themselves so desperately to the moments events for the sole purpose of their own agendas? So many people see so blindly through their own lenses - it makes you stupid in that you can only interpret through narrow ideas and the momentum of your selfish outlook. It leads you to ignore simple facts and to become incapable of evolving interpretation. You say shite like -

“Thanks lefties. Let’s hope for the sake of balance a few doctor’s wives, pop singers and BBC actors also get beaten up. “

C’mon Tom, you don’t like people to make slights on the intelligence of others so don’t make it easy for people.

I am just amazed at the vitriol and generalised crap that can spew out of “right-think”. As annoying as pc obsession is and left driven over-compassion beyond reason is also, surely a ‘reasonable’ person can see the place of education, poverty and class in these events? Or are we happily becoming a bunch of selfrighteous online know-it-alls who call the whole world just the way it is - through our eyes only and have disregarded the responsibility to empathise before we judge?

MarkS says:

02:16pm | 10/08/11

@fml
I never said that this was a result of a multicultural society.

john listeri says:

02:20pm | 10/08/11

Race riots? hahahahahahahahha… Have you check news and TV footage of the riot?? There are more whites than any other races. Obviously, you are a bigot Erick and you will use any excuse (fact or fiction) and frame to suit your cause…. regardless of how nutty it is..

Stone age liberal says:

02:41pm | 10/08/11

Eric (and everyone else), your constantcomments about race have finally gotten to me. There is no such thing as race. This is an outmoded concept completely destroyed by modern genetics. There are differences in the human form but no sharp boundaries to define someone by “race”. There are cultures and religions and nationalities but there are no races.  Genetically it is more likely that you will share common traits with an African person than your white Australian neighbour. Please tell me Eric how YOU define race? Do you mean color, and if so at what shade does your race change?

Glen says:

02:45pm | 10/08/11

Agreed and it is coming to Australia.

Hamish says:

03:39pm | 10/08/11

fml, the UK has a very similar welfare system to Australia. Welfare creates disadvantage. It doesn’t solve it. It has never solved it. The countries which have the most frequent riots - France, Greece, Italy - have the most generous welfare systems. Welfare simply ensures that entire generations of people will grow up with no work ethic and no belief in education. It’s not really the rioters fault, they’ve never known any better. The people to blame are the progressives who treat the working (or non-working) classes as inherently inferior beings who can only survive on the altruism of the middle and upper classes. Or, in other words, people like you.

Hamish says:

04:30pm | 10/08/11

AdamC at least the drug pushers are doing something…

LC says:

04:46pm | 10/08/11

Hamish, I’d blame the people involved as much as the (literally, in the UK) loony left. It’s called personal responsibility. They did not have to loot, set things alight, fight and vandalize property, but they do anyway, and should be accountable.

Welfare is not a bad thing provided it’s given to people who actually need it eg: those with disabilities which would prevent them from finding work, the elderly and mothers of children under 15 (because let’s face it, a full-time stay-at-home parent until around that age may solve a lot of today’s youth problems). People who do not fall into any of these categories should be given it for no longer than 6 months, after which they must present evidence that they are actively looking for a job or have it cut off.

bobby says:

06:26pm | 10/08/11

and that is what australia has to look forward to.

Greg says:

06:30pm | 10/08/11

@ Stone Age Liberal, stop telling stupid lies.

Of course races exist, it is as clear as the nose on your face. That’s why different races can be determined from DNA samples:

http://www.ancestrybydna.com/

It’s also why different races are susceptible to different diseases, like Tay-Sachs and sickle cell amaemia,and why there are significant racial variations in blood types, such as the distribution of Duffy antigens.

Genetically it is NOT more likely that a white Australian will share more common traits with an African person than their white Australian neighbour. That is not an opinion. It is a proven scientific fact.

In both genetic and social terms, members of the same race are just like members of an extended family. It’s quite simple to understand, unless you try really hard not to.

You really need to stop reading outdated 1960s leftist propaganda, which has been scientifically proven to be false, wrong, and incorrect.

Read as many peer reviewed journals on the topic as you like, but the facts won’t change, but maybe your ignorance will.

Margot says:

06:53pm | 10/08/11

Oh come on Eric,there are plenty of white kids rioting too.
The reason all this has happened is because kids are bored, unemployed and no one(not even their parents) give a flying rats arse about them.They have no hope,no prospects.They’ll be lucky to have a job ever and even if they do it’ll be some crap job that as unfulfilling as cardboard for breakfast lunch and dinner.Their lives are a misery.It’s not multiculturalism that caused this it’s the apathy of a nation towards these kids that have bred them into a generation of Nihilists.They have nothing to loose because they have nothing.The gap between rich and poor,educated and uneducated in England is vast,bigger than anything we see here in Australia and something sooner or later had to give.
Also they are simply idiots, born from generations and generations of uneducated halfwits,and the country just let it go because they don’t care,instead of getting in there,educating them and trying to break the cycle of idiots breeding with idiots.
The scary thing is though all it would take is for a couple of cleaver people to get in there with them, organise them and you could potentially have a revolution. Having a whole generation who have nothing to loose is generally how revolutions start after all.

Tom says:

07:41pm | 10/08/11

fml, Rosemeadow? The Block? Punchbowl? Do you make this tripe up as you go along?

Tom says:

07:47pm | 10/08/11

Chungo Bungo, “Orwell of course caused this”. OMG, you couldn’t be serious?

Don’t waste your time with ad hominems.

Mike says:

08:01pm | 10/08/11

This has nothing to do with ‘multiculturalism’ because the UK is much better on that score, than say France or Germany, which STILL don’t recognise ‘immigrants’ as ‘true countrymen’.

It is because of the stupid “Gangsta” culture in the UK, with bogan (Chav) kids going “If you don’t respect me ‘cause I’m “Gangsta” (sic), I’ll shoot / glass you”.  Listen to the kids on the ABC - “It’s the Government’s fault, it’s a battle against the rich” - trashing mum and dad businesses (not institutions like banks) and blaming everyone else except themselves and their own actions.

chungo mung says:

08:46pm | 10/08/11

tommy boy, ad hominems? - that is all you are peddling pal and the contribution quality is pretty low.

Tom says:

08:23am | 11/08/11

Chungo Bungo, Orwell did not cause it. What arrant drivel. Think before you post.

chungo mung says:

09:26am | 11/08/11

tom you dolt. sarcasm. the stupidity you expect is astounding, who do you hang out with?

Tom says:

09:46am | 11/08/11

Chung Bungo, the only stupidity is in your statement that Orwell caused it. You haven’t even got the goolies to admit that it was a stupid thing to say.

n_dude says:

01:08pm | 11/08/11

If this is multicutural then why did a Malaysian student get mugged by a bunch of white people pretending to help him? As has been mentioned this about class and not culture. This has descended from a bunch of disaffected blacks to poor people and neo Nazi’s taking advantage of the anarchy to loot and pillage

Helen says:

08:51am | 10/08/11

If the “lefty nutbags” had been in power to build a social democratic society where income distribution is not the worst since the Great Depression and the youth in the public housing estates are not systematically excluded from a society built on sheer materialism… this might not have happened

barry from adelaide says:

08:52am | 10/08/11

Thank you Sir, for your insightful comments.

You have added greatly to the debate.

Conservatives are right says:

09:23am | 10/08/11

@ Helen - typical left-wing nonsense. Income is distributed according to the ability to earn it. YOU want to take from high earners and give to low income earners. Such an ideology was left behind by thinking people in the early 1900s.

Perhaps you’d like to educate us as to how youth in the public housing estates are excluded from society? That claim is a typical mantra of the left and is always used as an excuse for poor behaviour. There is nothing preventing an individual from getting a job and providing for their family, instead of bludging off the hard-working taxpayer.

How is it ok to smash the windows of a shop and steal everything inside?

Why is it ok to destroy a family’s livelihood and source of income by burning down their small business?

Left whingers like you are the reason why London is being attacked by scumbags while responsible people are heading off to work to contribute to society and their community.

Miles says:

09:40am | 10/08/11

This is precisely it.  The socialist welfare mentality of recent western governments has bred a generation of lazy criminals with no sense of personal responsibility.  These people are not rioting for some greater political motivation - they are doing it for the kicks and so they can steal things.  They don’t care how their actions effect others, such is their selfish and entitled attitude which, again, has been nurtured by the welfare state.

Jay Santos says:

09:46am | 10/08/11

“...If the “lefty nutbags” had been in power to build a social democratic society where income distribution is not the worst since the Great Depression…”

So sharing my pay packet with a bunch of Chav trash too lazy to work is your great utopian “social democratic society”?

How ironic then that this rioting is being propogated and marshalled via cell phones and social messaging; the very tools of a materialistic society that you claim they don’t have access to.

Sounds more like you are making excuses for their criminal behaviour.

Shameful.

Anna C says:

09:49am | 10/08/11

Helen I think you are talking total crap here. These kids are not the first in the world to grow up poor. Others have grown up in similar circumstances over the centuries and used education and hard work to pull themselves out of poverty.

I’m sick of people like you always making excuses for them. They are not victims. They are stupid, lazy, and irresponsble people who are being mollycoddled by the welfare state. They need to get off their fat arses, get an education and get a bloody job just like the rest of us.

Hank says:

09:52am | 10/08/11

At what point Helen does one become responsisble for their own actions?  At what point do you stop making excuses for them?  Is is my fault I earn a high income because I work very hard?  Should I have to sit there and watch my Government take from me and give to those who are too lazy to earn a decent living?  There is a difference between charity and outright rorting and unfortunately the left cant differentiate between the two.  As far as they are concerned if you earn over X you dont deserve it and must give to Y.
Come on convince me otherwise.

James1 says:

10:04am | 10/08/11

Agree 100% Anna.  The sense of entitlement is absolutely staggering.

fml says:

10:46am | 10/08/11

Helen you are absolutely right.

Cut benefits, cut education and access to public and tertiary education and give the poorest no hope, obvious policies of the right side of politics and of course its the fault of the “lefties”.

High unemployment, no benefits to help search for employment, and no education, and the only answer the conservatives have is, well if you tried harder. How you supposed to pay your way when there are no jobs thanks to cuts in spending by the government?

Mark says:

10:56am | 10/08/11

You people have no idea, this is generational poverty coming to a head. These people’s parents and grand parents have been living in these slums their whole lives and they have witnessed nothing but violence and poverty in their local communities, yet they watch as the rest of the world materialised their lives with money. It’s not about them being too lazy to work, it’s about them not having the opportunity to bridge the class gap that is as wide as it ever has been in England. They can’t afford university and no one will give them an opportunity without a degree. Rock and a hard place if you ask me. This is what happens when you ignore and segregate a problem. It breeds like minded hate for authority and guess what, there’s more people who feel hard done by than people who think their well off. 90% of global wealth is controlled by 1% of the worlds population and thats says it all. One day, that one percent in power is going to be lynched for their crimes against humanity. This is only the beginning.

James1 says:

11:09am | 10/08/11

fml, I get the strong feeling that many of those rioting - those from the estates, at least - are really not interesting in education or looking for work.  Providing them with opportunities to do so will not force them to take these opportunities up.  The unconditional nature of the British welfare system cements this tendency.  What we see on the streets of England’s major cities is the result.

fml says:

11:34am | 10/08/11

James1,

Its easy to say that when they have no choice. Of course there are some that are not interested, but i suggest more are angrier due to high unemployment, high cost of living and lack of opportunities.

I would accept your statement, if there was high employment, low cost of living and reasonable help for the youth, much like the situation in australia, what is the difference between australia and the uk? its too simple an answer to just call them criminals and pride ourselves on our work ethic.

notsurprised says:

12:15pm | 10/08/11

LOL….. they need to be supported and hands held to go to uni to not feel marginalised??? pull the other one.
I didn’t go to uni, wasn’t a fan of school but knew I needed it if I wanted a good job but all I could get was flipping burgers so that is what I did until I joined the military, they educated me and now I earn a decent middle income.
These little sh#$t bags can go out and flip burgers without an education, work in a supermarket, work for a council ffs!! Or better yet, join the damn military or police. Instead its EVERYONE elses fault PLEASE. No chance at education?? Last time I checked there was still free high school and bag searches on their way home whilst honestly minding their own business?!?! STOP TAKING DRUGS YOU DAMN HIPPIES! The ones rioting are because they feel ‘entitled’ they don’t want to work hard for a reward, they just want people to hand them more and more.
Military needs to come out and start capping some of their collective spoilt and lazy little asses.

Anne71 says:

12:20pm | 10/08/11

Helen, I came from a background which could most likely be described as “disadvantaged”. My father was ill and unable to work, and my mother had to care for him, as well as raise us. We depended on welfare to survive and often didn’t have enough food to go around, let alone the latest toys,  gadgets etc. But Mum and Dad both made it very clear that this was not the way it was supposed to be - that society did not owe us a living. They made sure we got a good education because they knew that was the only way out. Most of us went on to university or TAFE, and we all ended up in good, well paying jobs. I like to think that through our taxes we have repaid every cent the government paid us in welfare, and then some.
So, Helen, I really resent it when condescending people like you try to excuse criminal little scumbags like the ones carrying out the looting on the basis that they are “disadvantaged”.  The vast majority of us from similar backgrounds have managed to get by without resorting to stealing and destroying other people’s property.

Lefty nutbag says:

12:31pm | 10/08/11

@Ghost
Go Gidgee of Brisbane!

Bruno says:

12:42pm | 10/08/11

@Conservatives are right - If you have studied and worked hard, or you are a brilliant individual, and you have the right attitude then yes you deserve all the money you can get. However the more leg ups you have received in life the less you deserve that money. Since we’re generalising here, most right wingers have been given leg ups from the day they were born. You only have your job because of your dad. You do not deserve that money. You’ll be giving it up one day don’t worry. We’ll be coming for people just like you and Ghost here. No I don’t agree with the rioters. But I don’t agree with ideological attacks either, regardless of the volumes of passion behind them.

Mitch says:

12:47pm | 10/08/11

Yes equal pay for all people,  assigned jobs for all people, food allocation not freedom to enjoy the money you earned, and then remove the freedom to vote so that no one can complain about the lefties and right wing. YEAH…... i’m pretty sure a couple of blokes had this idea a while ago Lennon or was it Marks i can’t remember…..

fml says:

12:56pm | 10/08/11

Anne71,

You survived because you had welfare, what would of been the outcome if your benefits were cut? how would you have afforded to go to school?

I agree its not the way it should be.

disadvantaged scumbags? i ask again how would you been able to get an education when your benefits are cut, just like what is happening now in the UK?

fml says:

01:18pm | 10/08/11

Mitch,

Obviously misconstruing context does no good.

No one is asking for equal pay for all jobs or calling for a communist state, they are rioting for the government to help create more jobs, cutting spending resulting in less jobs does not help people gain employment. People do not have time to riot if they have jobs.

Anne71 says:

01:34pm | 10/08/11

FML, I said “criminal scumbags”, not “disadvantaged scumbags” - if you’re going to quote me at least quote me correctly.
Yes, welfare helped me and my family. That ‘s exactly my point. We did not use it as justification to help ourselves to our neighbour’s goods and chattels.  As for “welfare cuts”, my understanding is that welfare is still there for those who genuinely need it. And that’s the way it should be - not just given to those who just don’t want to work.

fml says:

02:05pm | 10/08/11

Sorry Anne,

My mistake,

the nature of UK welfare cuts, They are obviously not cutting them off completely, but the number of people accessing foodbanks have increased dramatically.

” rising from 26,000 in 2008-09 to 41,000 in 2009-10 – 37 per cent of whom were referred to foodbanks because of delays with their benefits.”

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/the-impact-of-welfare-cuts-britons-on-the-breadline-2017939.html

“We did not use it as justification to help ourselves to our neighbour’s goods and chattels” That is a gross misrepresentation of what is occuring. They get welfare therefore they riot and steal. Its not because they are hungry, constant harassment by police, or the fact that they are hungry.

Jay Santos says:

02:27pm | 10/08/11

“...How you supposed to pay your way when there are no jobs thanks to cuts in spending by the government?...”

Why should the only jobs be government jobs?

Government should be making it easier for businesses to start, operate and flourish.

It doesn’t happen in the UK and it certainly doesn’t happen here.

You’ve only got to look at the increasing levels of bureacracy in this country to see that Labor and its social engineering sycophants on the Left prefer the control perpetuation of the welfare state delivers them and Julia Gillard’s preference that the government will be the almighty provider.

SydSteve says:

02:33pm | 10/08/11

@ Anne71,

Having come from a situation very much like yours where both my parents were on welfare. And having worked hard to get myself a decent job and education as well. I find it extremely offensive when condesending people like you show a complete lack of empathy for people in the same situation.
It’s a shame that the only message you took out of your struggles was how much better you were then every other person below the poverty line.

Outraged says:

02:54pm | 10/08/11

@Mark: “They can’t afford university and no one will give them an opportunity without a degree.”

What are you talking about?! You don’t need a bit of paper from uni to be rich/successful! I have many friends who dropped out of High School and managed to find employment in Real Estate or Insurance and they earn double what I do…and I am the one with the stupid Uni Degree!

Most of the world’s millionaires dont have University Degrees either!

Lisa H. says:

03:13pm | 10/08/11

@ Sydsteve.

Identifying with petty theft and thuggery gets no one anywhere..

I notice plenty of local people are incredibly angry about what the feckless youth in their community are doing.

Ultimately, the anger from other local people tells me that poverty is not the central and only factor in these looters’ actions.

Who wants to identify with a looter? Only another looter, praps.

Anne71 says:

05:01pm | 10/08/11

@SydSteve, sorry, but my empathy is for the victims of the looters. Like the young couple I saw on the news last night whose business, a corner shop, was completely trashed.  What had they done to deserve that?
Also, I am very sorry if all you took from my original post was “I’m so great”. That wasn’t my intention, as I think you very well know.  The intention was to refute the assumption that if someone’s from a disadvantaged background, then they aren’t ever going to amount to anything, so we should just expect them to fall into a life of crime and welfare dependency.  I don’t know about you but I find that kind of insulting.

LC says:

05:09pm | 10/08/11

So Helen, in your opinion it’s perfectly acceptable to destroy and steal the property of those who have worked hard or work hard to make a decent living?

Give us a f*cking break. These people have no excuse at all to do what they are doing.

And riots were organized primarily through the use of smartphones and social networking sites. Things which in your opinion would be luxury items which they poor wouldn’t have access too. Sounds a lot more like, as one rioter said “we’re showing the police we can do what we like”.

PS: You’re not in London around about now are you?

Mark says:

09:37am | 11/08/11

@Outraged- Yes I know not everyone needs this bit of paper to be successful. I am on of those people myself. But saying it is just as easy to get a job without a degree, let alone become successful, is just laughable. The statement that “Most of the world’s millionaires dont have University Degrees either!” doesn’t even apply to this day and age or this generation. Those millionares you’re talking about (I’ll leave out the fact that most of them have degrees anyway, you are referring to a selected few) have come from middle to upper class back grounds and have been given legs up their whole lives. Family businesses, economic booms, technological advancements allowing innovation. That doesn’t happen anymore and you are out on your own if you want a job, let alone if you want to become successful. This generation is feeling the pressure of the worst economic downturn since the great depression. What have any of these baby boomers or gen x haters had to deal with in their life time?? An internet & resource boom providing stable economic growth for their whole lifetimes? you are kidding yourself if you think this isn’t about the lack of opportunity provided to youths. Just because Australia is still well off, doesn’t mean the rest of the world is. Get some perspective you white, middle class, inner city wanker. Open your mind to possibility that your experiences aren’t universal.

Dogbolter says:

07:38am | 10/08/11

Agree so much with this. These animals don’t care about pushing a message, it’s all about destroying the hard work of others and stealing all they can lay their hands on. It’s violent and they love it. One of “their people” got caught by police, pulled a gun and fired at the cops, cops shot back and killed him, and THEY are upset? Give the cops medals.

Best way to stop the violence? Shoot them. It’s the only message they will listen to, and will get rid of a lot of the dole bludgers and crime elements in the city.

Super D says:

08:28am | 10/08/11

It seems that the iron fist in the velvet glove has been replaced with a rubber chicken.

MD says:

08:43am | 10/08/11

I bet you two abhor the violence in Syria yet call for the same action in England.

Hypocritical morons, both of you.

1990s Escapee says:

08:54am | 10/08/11

@ Peter#1 says Can’t bring in the armed forces as it is not a good look for their Olympics, London was meant to be a stable pair of hands.

IC-1101 says:

08:59am | 10/08/11

@MD you’re suggesting that force in the UK would be on par with that used in Syria, when they will both be used in completely different context.  The rioting started in Syria BECAUSE of authoritarian presence.  These riots have occurred in the UK because of a LACK of authoritarian presence. Would you prefer each culprit just get a slap on the wrist and continue terrorising the people of London?  Of course you do—you’re a lefty.

Joan says:

09:04am | 10/08/11

Dogbolter: I hope there is no more than one of you out there,  Walk a mile in their shoes no job, no hope, no future, by your language you would be one of them

adam says:

09:12am | 10/08/11

MD the difference between Syria and England is quite stark. Syria was under the yolk of oppression, England is currently suffering tantrums from overly self centered yoof

Peter#1 says:

09:20am | 10/08/11

@MD
I do abhor violence, but if it takes violence to restore law and order, then so be it.
There is absolutely no justification for the actions of these thugs.

Anna C says:

09:56am | 10/08/11

MD, your comments are ignorant and idiotic at best. People are rioting in Syria for freedom and democracy; meanwhile youths are rioting in English citiies for a new pair of trainers. Get some perspective mate.

Hank says:

10:00am | 10/08/11

Oh listen to bleeding heart Joan.  Boo hoo love, give them all a shoulder to cry on.  Youre right because they all look so hungry and none of them appear to be clothed.  And of course none of them have access to the free public education system or countless social services that are provided by their Govt.  Of course its all our fault that we forced them to choose that lifestyle and didnt provide with the determination and self-pride to get them out of their hole.  Why dont you go over there luvee and tell them all its not their fault and give them a big hug.

Jonno says:

10:01am | 10/08/11

Harsh but true, why would the government let this happen to this extent is beyond me, these scum bags don’t give a crap about making a point, it’s about making a buck or two for them! Have you seen how they treat riot controlling police officers? Now please tell me what have those police officers done to deserve this crap? I’m sorry but no more touchy feely political correctness or “human rights” crap, you gave up your own right as soon as you took away someone else’s. Spray them with bullets I say, bring on tear gas and the works.

Adam Diver says:

10:09am | 10/08/11

@ MD, you cant make assumptions about others opinions and then use these baseless assumptions to call them hypocrites, because that is truly moronic.

Conservatives are right says:

10:09am | 10/08/11

@ Joan - you, madam, are an idiot.

We’re so sick of this leftist rationale saying that there are no jobs for the youth of Britain, and as a result, it’s OK to destroy the livelihood and income of families whose businesses have been destroyed by violent thugs.

No hope? No future? Get off your backside and stop blaming everyone else for your lack of ambition.

Joan, there are millions of us out there. We don’t blame others like the thugs in England. We get on with our lives and take responsibility for our actions, instead of braking into stores and stealing TVs…

Dogbolter says:

10:15am | 10/08/11

Joan, just because they are suffering (and suffering how? They get paid unemployment benefits like here in Australia, so it’s not like they are starving) does that give them the right to destroy the work of others? To use violence to solve the issue? To try to kill police who are doing a job trying to keep them from destroying a whole city? There is NO excuse for htis, whatsoever. None. To say otherwise is hypocritical, and I’ll bet London to a pound that if it was your family attacked, your home burnt down, your business looted, you would be calling for the same thing.

kurt says:

10:24am | 10/08/11

adam what will you say when theres bodies in the streets, that these people are being oppressed?.
now i dont disagree that the army has to get involved. bring in the n. ireland professionals. but there has to be investigations brought in to find the reasoning and the findings have to be implemented, with an iron fist.

Adam says:

10:53am | 10/08/11

Send in the army and shoot the looters. Unbelievable that you bleeding hearts are making excuses for these scum.

jg says:

11:09am | 10/08/11

Walk a mile in their shoes no job, no hope, no future, by your language you would be one of them

Ever lived in London? I have. In fact in walking distance from Tottenham. You can get a job in 24 hours. Seriously, it’s that easy.

These people chose to be unemployed.

Mark says:

12:17pm | 10/08/11

@JG, you’re wrong. Maybe you lived there 50 years ago but right now things are tough. My best friend grew up in Tottenham and came over to Aus for study, he is back there now with a masters degree in law and still can’t find a job. You tell me how the people with no university degree and less common sense have any chance at all?? . No, the problem is far too widespread for it to be considered opportunistic criminality. These views were instilled by both past and previous governments of this democratic nation who treat it’s own citizens as second class, repercussions need to be felt by those in power who have selfishly taken whatever was left in a country on the downhill slope since WW2.

atthepub says:

12:50pm | 10/08/11

Am I the only one that notices the poor unemployed organising themselves with Blackberry technology?
I have no Blackberry.

RB says:

01:00pm | 10/08/11

Spot on Peter#1.Agree totally.But according to the fml’s & Helens’s of the world these grubs arent criminals,they just havnt been provided with enough opportunities so are lashing out.Its everyone elses fault.

fml says:

01:29pm | 10/08/11

RB,

No not everyones fault, its failure of the governments social policy.

Are you a politician?.

Try again, next time please read my posts.

BobM says:

03:33pm | 10/08/11

@Joan, here’s a tissue…....

Fiddler says:

08:24am | 10/08/11

Ozzy, you remember the LA riots? They lasted five or six days.

As for lack of water cannon etc, because the Met is a touchy feely police

Tom says:

08:45am | 10/08/11

“where are the rubber bullets and water cannons?” ... in Belfast, I am told so that protestants can celebrate the day William of Orange slaughtered Catholics at the Battle of Boyne. How bloody absurd?

The cost of British presence in someone else’s country.

CABAL says:

09:00am | 10/08/11

you don’t water cannons or riot gear to disperse crowds… you only really need one thing

Tear gas. Lets see how well they riot when their eyes are on fire and they lungs are being filled up with burning, chocking CS gas.

Unleash the white terror on these hooded thugs and watch them fall like domino’s before the police.

Arfur says:

09:30am | 10/08/11

They are frantically trying to recruit social workers, what more can they do??

MarkS says:

10:06am | 10/08/11

Take off the glove, show the iron fist.

Declare martial law, write up some harsh laws suspending habus corpus & any right to sue police. Ensure these changes have a very limited time frame, say 2 weeks. Also increase the penalties of public disorder, with a much longer time frame, so 2 years.

Equip police & some army units with water cannon, tear gas, plastic bullets, riot gear & armoured transport. When a looting riot begins, seal off the streets with troops, send the police behind tear gas, water cannon & plastic bullets. Arrest everybody on the streets.

Do this once & it stops. If they will not respect, then let them fear.

mark says:

10:07am | 10/08/11

Arfur , frantically recruiting social workers ( SW ) ,  LOL , I can see it now . BAHAHAHAHAHA , SW now what is it that makes you feel so disaffected is it the lack of purpose you naturally possess as a child of generational welfare ? there there have some more money then ..

Richard says:

10:10am | 10/08/11

Bring on the real bullets and get this scum off the streets and out of the country Send them back to the jungles and the islands where they belong

fml says:

10:48am | 10/08/11

Richard,

Real bullets is what started this.

Tom says:

12:36pm | 10/08/11

Arfur, you have found a perfect solution. We should recruit more social workers and fire them out of the cannons.

LC says:

05:35pm | 10/08/11

@fml

Self-righteous “we’ll show the police we can do whatever we like” dickheads started this.

What the police did was their job, and to preserve their safety so they can return to their families that evening. IT IS NOT AN EXCUSE TO START A RIOT, no, sorry, an opportunistic theft-vandalism-arson-and-assault-a-thon.

I find it quite stupid and hypocritical that you’d criticize a government body whom you’d call in a heartbeat if you needed help for doing their job

Joan says:

08:45am | 10/08/11

The governments have let this happen, leaders too busy prancing around the world measuring CO2 dreaming about a world without CO2 ignoring what is happening in their own backyard today.  No work, no future, frustration anger, rage , fueled these erruptions of violence. destruction, and the numbers involved indicates the extent to which the British government has let down its people.

Xgenner says:

10:55am | 10/08/11

1990s Escapee, just so it’s more humanitarian, you’d only condone barricading up those that were involved in the rioting into one or more of those housing estates, barricading that up, and then either gassing or bringing down the building on their heads, right? It just wouldn’t be right to take those that have yet to commit a crime and put them all in the same bucket.

The Observer says:

03:02pm | 10/08/11

Strangely, the piece that makes the most sense of this comes from someone with a predeliction for quoting Marx.

http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php/site/article/10970/

1990s Escapee says:

08:48am | 10/08/11

@Disappointed -I think Erick feels the need to share even when he has no clue, he should stick to local issues as he seems quite sharp at times with those.  It is always an easier option to see colour, but if you know the landscape ‘you’ll see a ‘have’ v ‘have not issue’ all wrapped up with a bit of early Christmas shopping.

Erick says:

09:16am | 10/08/11

The media have their own agenda. You have to read between the lines.

The original protests that triggered the riots were racial in nature. The first rioters were blacks, upset at the death of a black gangster in a shootout with police. The fact that some others have joined in since then doesn’t remove the actual cause of the riots.

jenni says:

09:17am | 10/08/11

Don’t you jusy get sick of the chardonay, latte drinking, lefty no good PC brigade and their forever excuses for everything!
Yes a few whites and Asian hangers on amongst them but far the majority are black troublemakers.
The bottom line is that they have no respect for themselves or anyone else in their community and should be taught a very severe lesson, such as rubber bullets, tear gas, long prison sentences, and if possible the taking away of their Social Security Benefits.
Mark my words, Australia is heading in the same direction letting a miss mash of foreigners (with a number of exceptions such as those that believe in Australia & a real democracy - before I get called a racist) into the country that do not accept our way of life and the only thing they want to do is bludge and rort the system and do everything they can to undermine our democracy.

Jonathan says:

09:50am | 10/08/11

Disappointed…I’m disappointed! http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/katharinebirbalsingh/100099830/these-riots-were-about-race-why-ignore-the-fact/

josh says:

10:06am | 10/08/11

Have a look at how it started, the race card is WELL justified in this case.

1990s Escapee says:

10:49am | 10/08/11

@Erick -  Race is clouding the water here.  They are black, but firstly they are poor, no hopers from Dickensian council estates with nothing to lose with support from a criminal subculture.  If it was a real race issue then more blacks would mobilise and the black MPs and leaders would be giving the rioting legitimacy, as they have in the past.  It may surprise you (especially living here) that blacks can get on with their lives in exactly the same way as whites slotting into all socio economic groups, paying taxes and contributing to society, and that in spite of continual sniping about their colour from bigots unable to look beyond skin colour.  If you see a red head dropping litter are all red heads litter droppers?
I expect a little more considered thoughts from you, please leave the dumb stuff to others.

fml says:

10:54am | 10/08/11

Erick,

There is an independent inquiry, initial reports show he was unarmed.

But you did pull the race card erick, quite hypocritical when you deride others for doing so.

This isnt an issue of race, its an issue of a government failing its poor, by cutting benefits, reducing access to education and massive unemployment and debt.

fml says:

10:58am | 10/08/11

Jenni,

They have already taken their benefits away from them, thats one of the reasons they are rioting, along with, high unemployment, constant harrassing by the police, lack of access to education and a massive increase in living.

Osiris Fox says:

12:06pm | 10/08/11

Oh get off your high horse!! Of course there are other races involved, but the majority of them are black, this cannot be disputed by anyone with the lest amount of logic. If 50% are black, 25% white, 25% Asian, then who are the main antagonists? Sick of people using the race card on people who state the obvious.

Truth says:

01:16pm | 10/08/11

Actually i think Eric is spot on.I have friends who live close to where these riots are happening & from their descriptions it is about 85% ethnic minorities.Its just the PC media dont want to show the truth because that would be rraacciisstt….....

SydSteve says:

02:41pm | 10/08/11

@ Osiris Fox,

“If 50% are black, 25% white, 25% Asian, then who are the main antagonists?”
And what percentage of those people are men? Maybe it’s not a race issue but a gender issue?
How many have brown hair? More then 50%?
Stating an observation about a crowd and calling that the cause is misguiding.
I’m with FML. If you like percentages the work out what percentage of rioters were poor. I’d say it will be a lot more then 50%

Pete from Sydney says:

09:03am | 10/08/11

Rubbish JohnB, workers are retiring because they’re getting old, Australia is close to full employment, the economy is one of the strongest in the world…welfare reciepents aren’t exploding…it’s a typical ploy to lump all this on the loony left

JohnB says:

09:27am | 10/08/11

@ Pete from Sydney…“workers are retiring because they’re getting old” Thought that’s what I implied…..

“Australia is close to full employment”...The numbers are cooked..1 hours work means you’re employed…Unemployed shifted to disabled…

“the economy is one of the strongest in the world” You’re kidding yourself…We are one massive mess beginning to unravel. Australia cannot possibly function with so much welfare reliance, such expensive housing, so much debt. We don’t do anything. When I was in the UK and the US 4years ago it was easy to see what was coming…It’s easy to see what’s coming here. Maybe look out both eyes and you’ll also see it Pete from Sydney…..Or we could blindly continue along paths that have failed horribly overseas…

Which is smarter?

“it’s a typical ploy to lump all this on the loony left”...Not at all. It belongs with the loony left…They created all this, and the quiet toilers are now going to begin to tell you enough. It’s happening now. Another of my predictions. The left will be a thing of the past, you pushed too far and we’re saying enough.

Bert says:

10:30am | 10/08/11

JohnB your argument is not coherent (though I too disagree with the implementation of the welfare state - not with welfare itself, mind you). You rant about the evils of socialist policy, while bundling in that 85% of mining is overseas owned - a result of capital ... ist policy.

fml says:

11:05am | 10/08/11

John,

If these people had money and access to education they wouldnt be rioting, how many of these people you think have jobs and money?

Massive unemployment, massive cost of living increases, no access to education, and its the fault of the left for giving them money? you have your head in the sand. Why are there no riots in australia? low unemployment, access to education and welfare. Where are the riots when everybody get their fair share? Russian and French revolutions are classic examples of an inefficient government, favoring a few, this is a classic example of where social politics would actually keep the calm.

JohnB says:

04:33pm | 10/08/11

@Bert…That’s just it. I’ll decide for myself what’s sensible and what’s not. I don’t formulate my opinion by what elite dinner parties I attend. I don’t lean to the left or right. There are really, really dumb parts of both.

It makes no sense to either give away so much do nothing money, AND it’s not real smart selling 85% of our mining assets. I’m struggling to understand your opposition to that?

cynic says:

07:39am | 11/08/11

I wasn’t aware that John Howard and the Liberal Party were left loonies, but they must be, because it was them that increased welfare dependency.  Think about it, they came up with the baby bonus and increased it massively, they gave teenagers youth allowance, and the top end of town found ways to rort the system so that their teens didn’t miss out on having some pocket money supplied by the government.  They were offered child care rebates, subsidies and lower taxes. 

whats quite ironic is that those middle/upper income earners expect that they be entitled to these benefits and they wnat more tax cuts etc, but at the same time they begrudge the ones who have to battle just to survive getting a single cent of welfare.

A change is on it’s way, the oppressed have had enough of being treated with contempt from their fellow country men and governments. 

we should be afraid, be very afraid because this is only the beginning of the downfall of consumerism

gobsmack says:

01:48pm | 10/08/11

For the opening ceremony of the 2012 games they should get a hooded black youth to lob a molotov cocktail into the olympic cauldron.

adam says:

08:56am | 10/08/11

coffee just came out my nose Supe’s thanks for that

Jack says:

08:46am | 10/08/11

What has your argument got to do with anything at all that is happening in the UK right now? How is that pertaining to the Australia? The chaos happening in the UK right now is NOT a race problem, or one brought on because of the supposed ‘failures’ of multiculturalism, it’s a class and social problem.

Mankind says:

08:53am | 10/08/11

Multiculturalism has been working here for decades with barely a blip. What one riot four years ago drummed up by idiots. Before people like you moved on to “the current group of immigrants” you were screaming about the Germans, Italians, Poles and Greeks and how they wouldn’t adapt etc. Get a grip.

AliceC says:

08:53am | 10/08/11

Ummm, multiculturalism includes “The Germans, Italians, Polish, Dutch, Greeks etc ”

Get the real facts straight says:

09:12am | 10/08/11

Looks all white to me. But take the race issue out and you’ll see it’s all about the unemployed, gangs, red necks and hoodies. This is the oppurtunity they take to loot, break and entry and rob people.

Lateral Thinking Realist says:

09:21am | 10/08/11

Mankind - read again !  I said that the europeans adapted - unlike the current immigrants who don’t want to adapt or are you living somewhere that you can’t see what is happening here ?  Or better still take your blinkers off !!

gobsmack says:

09:34am | 10/08/11

@LTR
One thing you conveniently omit is that Australia, unlike European countries, has only been inhabited by white people in the last couple of hundred years.
It became multicultural the moment Governor Phillip established the colony of New South Wales.

Mankind says:

09:46am | 10/08/11

I read it once. It was bullshit then I can’t see what’s changed.

Pretending now that there wasn’t the same sort of bigotted hate directed at European based migrants screaming that they would never immigrate might be “blinkers off” to you. To anyone with a grip on reality it’s yet another example of bigots changing targets.

We were going to be “swamped by Asians”, since that really hasn’t panned out the bigots have moved on to Muslims.

marley says:

10:06am | 10/08/11

@LTR - so, which immigrants is it that don’t want to adapt?  The Chinese and the Indians seem to be adapting reasonably well, the British I agree are a bit of a problem but at least they speak the language, the Indonesians are settling fairly well.  That covers our major source countries.

Lateral Thinking Realist says:

10:51am | 10/08/11

Obviously Mankind you live in a more exclusive suburb than I do - I live in a street that is now occupied by all walks of life ( mainly from the sub continent )  and despite my never ending efforts to bring the people of this once nice street together 99% of them won’t acknowledge me when I say Good Morning !  I have invited all the neighbours over for all sorts of friendly functions over the last couple years and NOT ONCE   I repeat NOT ONCE has anyone other than the few remaining original   Australians bothered to reply let alone attend !  I am an outcast in my own street and through your rose coloured glasses are telling me Multicuterism is working wonderfully ! There are 2 types of people in this country - those that have foresight and can see the writing on the wall and those -  like yourself - that are in denial and be the first to complain when things don’t go there way and ask why we didn’t do something sooner !!  Good luck and I hope your family doesn’t get affected by the inevitable !

Stranger Danger says:

02:26pm | 10/08/11

@LTR, You hate entire nations of people because the ones on your street don’t want to hang out with you?

I’d say it is either because you would try and ram your beliefs down their throats, or just because you are the local neighbourhood whackjob and they don’t want to engage.

I’m white and I wouldn’t be coming either…

Mankind says:

08:41pm | 10/08/11

@LTR -

Why is the street no longer nice? Because people don’t want to associate with you? An obvious bigot? Mate I’m white and I live in a middle class area with stacks of Greeks, Lebanese and Koreans. Everyone gets on. There’s a street party on Australia Day and at Christmas as well as Halloween for the people who are happy for their kids to participate.

I’m more than happy to chat to my neighbours or help out if they need it but you know what I’m generally more than happy to be left the f**k alone. And I’m also more than happy for them not to be bothered by me.

That’s the thing if people don’t want to associate with you then that’s their right and you should respect that. Why does the world revolve around what you want. Many people just want to be left alone. I know I do. As it is your right to keep to yourself if you choose.

The success of multiculturalism is not defined by who wants to associate with you. And it takes a special kind of moron to forget that all this bullshit about “they don’t integrate”, “they wont talk to me” was claimed by bigots during the waves of European immigration.

Itoldya Didnti says:

08:15am | 11/08/11

Mankind -  Ignorant fool with tunnel vision !

Mankind says:

08:42am | 11/08/11

@Itoldya Didnti

If I’m the fool why can’t put forward an intelligent argument moron?

Anna C says:

10:10am | 10/08/11

Fiddler don’t you know that your not allowed to point out the frigging obvious. Very unPC.

fml says:

11:09am | 10/08/11

Its because its not obvious, its not a multicultural issue, Its a social economic issue.

Playing the race card, when its obviously not about race, they are not rioting because they are coloured. They are rioting because of the failures of social policy of their governments, if we do not get to the real issues behind this, then we are doomed.

Jonathan says:

11:33am | 10/08/11

That’s right…‘they are rioting because of the failures of social policy of their governments’ Uhhh NO - they are rioting because their parents failed to tell their kids ‘No- you are not going out tonight because I am your parent and I said so!’ The fact is that the UK has one of the best education systems in the world and if these kids wanted to make a life for themselves, by listening to their teachers instead of ditching school to drink/smoke dope, then they probably would have got a job and be able to have a decent life…but NO, it’s easier to sit on the dole and complain that it’s all too hard and its everyone’s fault but their own. I made the choice to listen to my teachers, work my backside off at school, go to university (noting I moved out of home when I was 16 and had 3 jobs to support myself and my 2 children before I finished university with 2 degrees) and provide a life for my family. That was all my doing.

fml says:

01:00pm | 10/08/11

John, you had three jobs yeh?

In haringey there is one job for every 54 seekers, now if you had 3 jobs, that would be 161 people with out work.

Its easy to say im so awesome and everyone else is bad when there is high employment opportunities.

How are people supposed to work when there are little opportunities? then how are they supposed to survive when benefits are cut and cost of living increasing dramatically?

I await your response.

Tina says:

01:42pm | 10/08/11

@ fml

It must be pure conincidence then that on all the pictures published I fail to see many caucasians?

fml says:

02:09pm | 10/08/11

Its not their fault you are color blind.

http://www.metro.co.uk/news/605440-g20-protesters-break-into-rbs-building

In this photo i see ten of them. 10 more than your claim. The only coincidence is that you dont see any Caucasians in the photos because the riots are happening in london and not the Caucasus. 

*facepalm*

Tina says:

02:40pm | 10/08/11

@ fml

The definition of caucasian is white person or being of European decent.

fml says:

03:00pm | 10/08/11

I know Tina i was being sarcastic, it can also apply to people from the Caucasus where the word originated from.

Did you happen to look at the picture and see the white people rioting?

Tina says:

03:27pm | 10/08/11

@ fml

I saw your picture. Its one picture out of thousands. And I guess it is neither right nor wrong to say it is a race issue or poverty thing as both things go hand in hand unfortunately. I dont want to look for statistics here but I think we are all aware that there is higher proportion of migrants under the poverty line for various reasons.

Tracey says:

08:10pm | 10/08/11

To Mankind:  If you think we haven’t been ‘swamped by Asians’ you obviously haven’t been to Brisbane in recent years.

Mankind says:

08:44am | 11/08/11

@Tracey - How has Asian immigration adversely affected you? No imagined slights or trivialities please.

iansand says:

08:42am | 10/08/11

A bit like Gen X whining that the Baby Boomers have everything and won’t hand it over to them.  The sense of entitlement and envy is not confined to estate kids.

marley says:

09:11am | 10/08/11

I’m willing to bet that there are quite a few nationalist skinheads amongst those rioters.

ozpuck says:

10:07am | 10/08/11

Yeah.  I mean, lets be completely free of that multicultural morass.  I mean, it’s not as if the heir to the throne is the son of a Greek immigrant…

josh says:

10:08am | 10/08/11

You’d be wrong then marley.

GB of Perth says:

03:42pm | 10/08/11

I agree, socialism is the ideology and multiculturalism is one of the tools used by the left’s “leaders” to destroy vibrant economies and open societies.

Mark says:

04:44pm | 12/08/11

@GB, in case you hadn’t noticed. It’s the capitalist world we live in that is crumbling apart beneath us. Immigration is used by right wing capitalists to gain competitive advantage of cheap labour all over the world and the amount of debt the world is in sure isn’t because of some fanciful left wing socialist ideology. It’s because capitalists have created loop holes in the markets to make themselves richer. Do you still think we’re in the cold war and Russia is out to get you?? or have you just got your head stuck that far up your own arse you haven’t see the sun since the 70’s?

marley says:

09:08am | 10/08/11

Well actually, the reason Britain is having these riots is because the class structure of British society remains trapped in the 19th century, whereas Australia has moved into the 21st.  So, perhaps it would be better if Britain took a leaf from Australia’s book and actually moved out of its social torpor into the light of modernity.  “Cool Britannia” was never anything but a marketing slogan for self-satisfied, insular middle-class Brits anyway.  It never had any substance.

Oblivion says:

09:46am | 10/08/11

Things?

GB says:

01:00pm | 10/08/11

This is more just things my love.

Jack Miller says:

09:27am | 10/08/11

You are a supporter of multiculturalism, so you will try and blame whatever you can to keep the minorities out of trouble and away from the real issue.

“materialistic desires of a generation that feel frustrated by lack of opportunity as a result of their birth, their accent and their education. Cheap materialism and expensive educations are conflicting.”

How pathetic, I suppose you would also add in global warming for their oppression too?

Ryder says:

09:36am | 10/08/11

I don’t think you even understand what multiculturalism is….

mark says:

10:13am | 10/08/11

Multiculturalism is an eutopian ideology that when applied to the real world is a mistake , not really in play here in the current thuggery but undoubtably a contributor to the loss of public cohesion and pride in a once great country .

Brendo says:

04:54pm | 10/08/11

Gee…. Thanks for effort put into the replies.

There’s some pretty angry and negative commentators on this site. Is it really necessary to go for a personalised attack - or is it just something that makes you feel better about yourself? Would you talk to me like that in a live public forum or in a face-to-face chat? Probably not. But on the internet you can forget your manners and be as rude as you like. Being anonymous allows you to behave in a way that you wouldn’t normally in real life.

Ironic that we’re discussing people who use hoods and masks to behave horrendously on the streets of London.

How can you consider solutions to a problem if you don’t understand the problem in the first place. You don’t have to agree with someone else’s point of view - but its often helpful to understand where they’re coming from. You can’t stop this happening again if you don’t understand the motivations of the perpertrators.

For the record my definition of Multiculturism is the peaceful co-existance of multipe and diverse cultures alongside the overriding base or host culture.

nabil says:

09:09pm | 10/08/11

tell them to to figt

HUBBA says:

03:19pm | 10/08/11

Agreed Tony…NO DISIPLINE AND NO R E S P E C T, they are gutless little cowards and should be shot on sight. If it is about no opportunity that’s bullshit, they can all join the army and do something decent. You can probably say goodbye to the olympics, London is not safe anymore.

Brian says:

09:29am | 10/08/11

The UK is well on its way to having the sort of underclass that exists in many American cities who are completely disengaged and have no regard for law, order or even their own lives. The only way for them to make meaningful money is through crime, drug dealing etc. When it gets that bad it really is beyond help and what has been tried so far has been a monumental failure. Watch the TV series The Wire for a study on this very subject.

mickey says:

11:26am | 10/08/11

I know right? Sure people may think us racist, drunken loud-mouths but at least our youths don’t set fire to our cities just to watch them burn.

..only the odd building occasionally.

Cam says:

09:46am | 10/08/11

While I agree that GenY (and a lot of GenX) have that attitude (note: I am Gen X and don’t believe I am entitled to anything. I work hard for what I have and won’t just accept welfare or hand-outs). What we need to look at is the reason for this selfishness, and it all stems back to how society has lost any sense of responsibility and the “all powerful government” has stepped in to be responsible for everyone.

Get the government out of running people’s lives and back to what they should be doing:
1. Infrastructure
2. Policing

there is too much bureaucratic bull, let’s go back to the freedoms and personal responsibility of the 60’s.

Anubis says:

10:15am | 10/08/11

@ Cam. There is a decided lack of self responsibilty among the population now days. A lot contributes to this I think. A big part is the nannyt state interfering in every aspect of life as well as the increasingly large welfare teat. An example of this is the Baby Bonus and the idea that the Government should be paying for 12 months or more maternity leave. If you choose to have a baby then save some money and pay for it yourself, all previous generations did.

A further contributor to the loss of self responsibility is the ridiculously light penalties handed out by courts in this country. Do something that harms or injures another human being then expect a slap on the wrist or a token penalty, but god forbid you deprive the Government of a couple of dollars and you could spend a decade or more in prison. 

I agree that Government should go back to doing what Governments are expected to do, Infrastructure (not establishing it and selling it to the highest bidder but actually developing, maintaining and improving), defence of the nation (including policing) and ensuring the best interests of the population and their endeavours by keeping Government intrusion into everyday life to a minimum.

Matthew says:

11:18am | 10/08/11

Generation has nothing to do with this.  It’s clearly low income earners (not all Gen X/Y/Whatever crap they come up with) that just happened to be young because they’re the ones struggling to find work and weren’t disciplined by their parents.

The difference between generations (which only ever gets brought up on this site and “Talking about my generation” and nowhere else) is a load of crap.  Each generation has their good people and bad people.  Just look at “Rebel without a cause” from 1955.  I’m pretty sure James Dean was a Gen X or Y.

PC says:

12:39pm | 10/08/11

Best response ever published

Jackie says:

01:26pm | 10/08/11

Im with you Linda, I am a Mum of 4 & I am watching children running around with no respect, kids that no-one has ever said no to, kids who are left to run wild. I heard 2 17 year old girls on radio today laughing about how they had been drinking wine since morning then went & smashed windows & “got some free stuff…from the rich people”. I cannot understand how they dont realise they are destroying their own neighbourhoods, their own jobs?

MarkS says:

09:57am | 10/08/11

@Seanr

“I’ll stress I don’t see these riots as a race issue and would say it is more of a class conflict, with blacks representing a disproportionate part of the lower socio economic group in London, still doesn’t excuse their behaviour”

I agree

Anna C says:

10:18am | 10/08/11

Seanr, I heard the same interview this morning with some rioters. They all thought it was a bit of a laugh.

Where were their parents I wonder?

Xgenner says:

11:01am | 10/08/11

@Anna C, I would expect these teenies or early twenties to be ‘responsible young adults’ with the government given right to do what they please.  The parents would have little sway on them, given their exposure to the welfare/safety net offered in our ‘civilized society’ today.  If you want them to take responsibility, make them responsible for themselves, cut back on the welfare and safety net… oh wait… that’ll never happen, we couldn’t drop back to the developing nations like our Asian neighbours.

AdamC says:

01:56pm | 10/08/11

Seanr, ‘Like’!

(Where’s fml when you need him/her?)

fml says:

02:19pm | 10/08/11

He, is here.

I am sure there are opportunistic looters, to claim that they are all opportunistic is fallacious. For one report of two little girls getting some free booze, there are others of people tired of being harassed by the police for the color of their skin. below is a quote i mentioned earlier.

“In one NBC report, a young man in Tottenham was asked if rioting really achieved anything.
‘‘Yes,’’ said the young man. ‘‘You wouldn’t be talking to me now if we didn’t riot, would you? Two months ago we marched to Scotland Yard, more than 2000 of us, all blacks, and it was peaceful and calm and you know what? Not a word in the press. Last night a bit of rioting and looting and look around you.’’”

When you ignore the voice of the disadvantaged, they will eventually get mad, and other parasites like the two you mentioned will take advantage.

Fiddler says:

09:51am | 10/08/11

What sort of comment is this? It makes no sense. The NSW Police used neither rubber bullets nor water cannon at Cronulla. In fact the water cannon vehicle wasn’t purchased until well after the Cronulla riots and rubber bullets are not issued except to one specialist unit which wasn’t deployed.
What is the purpose of this comment, I am trying to work out what you are saying, but your linguistics are terrible

kurt says:

10:51am | 10/08/11

well the cronulla riot only lasted the day, what ever you say, yours is still going, maybe the boobys need to break some heads,

Dmo says:

09:55am | 10/08/11

LMAO…Ebay UK will explode with boundless specials now…..

Helen says:

10:29am | 10/08/11

That comment and others here might make some sense were it not the case that it’s the Tories in power, not the Left, and it’s their harsh cuts to welfare, disability support etc which it could be argued have turned the misery up to 11 and increased the likelihood of such outbreaks.

As someone else said, where’s their incentive not to riot?

Furthermore, you all like to talk terribly tough about prisons and tough sentencing and more police, but those things are expensive. It costs more to send someone to prison than it would to have free education including university. And the same people who are always calling for tougher sentencing are the SAME people who are always calling for lower taxes! it just doesn’t work.

fml says:

11:23am | 10/08/11

Helen,

You are the only one on here speaking sense.

Jake says:

12:07pm | 10/08/11

@Helen

If these problems are ‘generational’ then it’s not the current Tory government that is responsible. 

Rather have them in prison and pay for it than have them burn my neighbourhood down.

Re-birth says:

12:19pm | 10/08/11

The cuts haven’t even come in yet. And these rioters wouldn’t have a clue what an austerity measure is.

It’s really a lack of Christian morals in the public sphere that enables this incivilty. The rioters are just doing what’s expected in an absolutist, secular society - making up their own rules.

fml says:

01:04pm | 10/08/11

Re-birth,

Born again are we? What were you like before your rebirth??

christian morals?? please, this is not about religion and is not a result of a secular society.  there are many social issues at play here, its not helping anyone making simple and incorrect assessments of the situation. If your god is so benevolent why doesnt he come down from his throne and help the poor? oh thats right, god helps those who help themselves, so essentially he does nothing at all

Ian1 says:

01:47pm | 10/08/11

@Helen - unfortunately these thugs wouldn’t know what to do with a free education if it was gifted to them.  Being a teacher, and with colleagues in the UK, I can confirm that the efforts of these thugs - even when they attend, are purely to disrupt the learning processes of others.

This really isn’t a protest, this is opportunistic crime.

Incentive not to riot?  Really, as though a riot is an accepted for of expression.

Helen, you really ought not try to defend these criminals, you either fml, they wouldn’t piss on either of you if you were on fire.  Thinking of which, they’d more than likely be the cause of your burning to begin with, what with your educated-speech and such.

GB says:

03:42pm | 10/08/11

@Helen.
“As someone else said, where’s their incentive not to riot?”

WTF???!!!!!!!!!!!

So now we need to incentivise these self entitled little sh*ts NOT to riot??????????

My god, that statement is absurd on so many levels I don’t know where to begin.

<Shakes head in disbelief>

BT says:

10:29am | 10/08/11

Where are these jobs Brian? Britain has mass unemployment and the UK Government slashed public service jobs.

marley says:

11:25am | 10/08/11

@BT - the unemployment rate in the UK is 7.7%  That’s about the same as Canada, Finland, Denmark; lower than France; a bit higher than Germany and well below the EU average.  I don’t think “mass unemployment” is accurate at all.

BT says:

11:34am | 10/08/11

Marley, that figure may be for the entire population. Specifically for youth however, the number is more like 20% unemployment.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2011/jul/22/youth-employment-rate-lowest

fml says:

11:47am | 10/08/11

Marley,

(Haringey, the borough that includes Tottenham, has the fourth highest level of child poverty in London and an unemployment rate of 8.8%, double the national average, with one vacancy for every 54 seeking work in the borough.)

http://www.alaskadispatch.com/article/what-caused-london-riots

One vacancy for every 54 seeking jobs, comparing the national unemployment rate to that of the borough of haringey doesnt give the entire picture.

marley says:

08:05pm | 10/08/11

@BT and fml - check the youth unemployment rates in any of these countries.  I don’t think you’ll find that Britain is exceptional in any way.

As for unemployment rates in Haringay, give me a break, we’re not talking about the outback here.  Haringay is part of London and London has a great public transport system.  Can’t get a job in Haringay? Try Islington or somewhere else on the tube or bus line.

Redeker Plan says:

10:48am | 10/08/11

“When the elite engineered the Norway terror attack, it was because the nationalists were becoming a threat to them, so they engineered a terror attack and pined it on the nationalists.”

There’s not enough tinfoil in the world to make a sufficient hat for you, is there John? For Dog’s sake, no one say the word Echelon!

MarkS says:

10:50am | 10/08/11

@John
The CIA mind control rays are getting though again, use thicker foil.

Meizpod says:

11:00am | 10/08/11

Sux here too - nothing ever happens as there are too many public servants to stop anything interesting.  They’ve turned the most beautiful country into   a large scale Milton Keynes with 1970s rock music still playing.  Chink a pint glass and think of me still being tortured by never ending Cold Chisel.

Steve says:

12:23pm | 10/08/11

Sounds like the response of the Libyan Government…....

Helen says:

10:51am | 10/08/11

Hey, you’re absolutely right. Let’s cease all immigration from England!

Xgenner says:

11:09am | 10/08/11

Bernard, so let’s re-introduce slavery back into society?  As it’s obvious to you that some cultures will not integrate well, better to hold their hand, and make them productive by the the whip and yoke.  I guess that’ll work if you offer them the clothes and tech toys that they keep saying they want, materialism, nothing else.  Pride, honor and respect doesn’t come into their vocabulary.  Note the last word, respect, you can’t get good slaves if you can’t get respect from them animals, unless you use the ‘whip’.  Funny to me however, is that a few of the posts here suggest using the ‘whip’ option already, by sending in the army and shooting them to bring back order.  What’s the next step?

Ian1 says:

04:09pm | 10/08/11

They want jobs and education?  You’ve really missed the head of the nail there Ryan.

If they wanted an education they wouldn’t be truant.  They wouldn’t disrupt the classroom, spit and stab teachers.  They wouldn’t prey on the youngest in their schools - by sexually assaulting them and then pimping them to their friends.

Why work when welfare is readily available?  By dealing drugs they not only gain a tax-free income but lifestyle to boot.

I think you have missed a serious dose of reality in those left-wing manifestos.

fml says:

04:49pm | 10/08/11

Ian1

Why work when in the borough of haringey there is one job for 54 seekers?

13 percent unemployment in london alone

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=1606

obviously higher in the lower socioeconomic areas. In the time of a recession they reduce benefits, and with increasing costs, crime seems like a more suitable alternative. Its not left-wing its just human nature.

Ian1 says:

05:24pm | 10/08/11

@fml - statistics aside, I reject the notion that the wanton destruction as evidenced is human nature.

How can burning the businesses which provide jobs increase the pool of available work?

How about charity work or volunteering?  You can’t tell me that someone who is applying themselves and truly bettering themselves will remain out of work for long?

I agree that there may be systemic issues where low-growth or indeed recession reduce the availability of gainful employment, but what we are seeing is not a line of placards which read “give us a job!”.  There certainly are jobs in industries which these folk feel are well below them.  There is undoubtedly a higher proportion of welfare dependent, drug trafficking gang members at work here.  They NEVER look for gainful employment, it goes against there modus operandi.

Pretty sure there are always avenues in reservist or armed services.  Geez, the MET even have a volunteer program…  not that I can imagine these hooligans volunteering to stamp out the crime they actively promote. 

Yes, times may be tough.  Granted.  Guaranteed they’re going to get a whole lot tougher too, especially for the perpetrators.  Perhaps so many jobs wouldn’t be going abroad if the barriers to trade hadn’t been so swiftly eroded.

This is a crime wave, not a political movement fml.

Anubis says:

10:23am | 10/08/11

@ 2ndeffort - well said - Applying Gillard policy and logic to London. Guaranteed to ensure no mitigation of viral anarchy.

mark says:

10:29am | 10/08/11

awesome , only the top 500 looters , redistribution of wealth and an immigration policy too , elect this guy if only it werent actually happening it would be hillarious .

John says:

10:40am | 10/08/11

I suspect massive white flight is coming to London very soon. Mass exodus of white’s will most likely leave London. London will become the new Detroit. Red Socialism which has been pushed by the elite who rule the media and British political establishment has truly stuffed up London. Lets hope the french are watching this! Make sure they vote for Front National, and start to get rid of red influence and socialist brainwashing of the European youth.

marley says:

11:01am | 10/08/11

Oh, lord - John, if there’s one place that is not a product of “socialism’ it is Detroit.  That city was built by capitalism, and arguably destroyed by it as well.

ozpuck says:

02:29pm | 10/08/11

I particularly like those “looney left” social engineering policies of MacMillan, Douglas-Home, Heath, Thatcher and Major.  Especially when promoted by that once Red Socialist, Rupert Murdoch.

Actually, there’s already been “white flight” from parts of London… to the boroughs in the counties outside London.  You know, like Essex.

Greg says:

07:03pm | 10/08/11

Marley, it’s obvious that Detroit was built by capitalism (Ford, Dodge & Chrysler) and destroyed by socialism (it has been a Democrat power base since the 1950s).

The results were predictable: poverty, crime, corruption and destruction:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/artanddesign/gallery/2011/jan/02/photography-detroit

Even the far-left Guardian couldn’t hide the truth.

marley says:

09:26pm | 10/08/11

Oh for god’s sake,  Detroit was destroyed because the Detroit capitalist businesses built lousy cars.  And no one in their right mind would call any of the Daleys “socialist.”

Greg says:

10:30pm | 10/08/11

Marley, the depths of your ignorance is astonishing.

The Detroit vehicle industry was destroyed by corrupt labour unions.  Left wing socialist labour unions. Surely even you have heard of Jimmy Hoffa? If you “ain’t so good at book-learning”, you can always rent the movie.

As for the Daleys, you don’t even have the right city. Try Chicago. Another left wing socialist stronghold and centre of corruption, which produced Democrats like the Daleys and Barack Obama.

Have you heard of Obama? Chief socialist of the USA. He makes an appearance on the news occasionally.

You really should try to gain at least some basic knowledge before you make a fool of yourself again.

marley says:

10:56am | 10/08/11

Well, maybe the “lazy self centred yoof” could start by taking some of those jobs that the UK has had to import Poles and other EU migrants to do - because British youth don’t like getting their hands dirty or cutting down their clubbing time. 

If economic migrants with a limited grasp of English can find work, and make enough to send money back home, why is it so dire for the “yoof.”?

albie says:

11:15am | 10/08/11

What a load of old leftist PC cocky poop!
This is no excuse for the thieving and arson, no matter how poor your are or what your circumstances.
What absolutely amazes me is that the PC lefty elite always have an excuse for everything that goes wrong in the world, but never any solutions other than to always try and justify themelves and their failed policies and positions.

BT says:

11:22am | 10/08/11

Oh yes, the cheap labour imports. If you have cheap labour imported, where’s the incentive to take on an apprentice? None. It’s not because young people want to go clubbing (seriously, how simplistic can you get?) it’s because there’s no one training them up to do anything.

BT says:

11:27am | 10/08/11

Albie, what’s sad is that you truly believe that. The elite have been systematically butchering cultures and natural resources for centuries - what’s their excuse?

LOL at left basher stupids says:

12:05pm | 10/08/11

Sounds like all the fapping failure far right neo-con sub human trash is also popping out of the woodwork.

It’s well known that WHITE FAR RIGHT groups love these kinds of happenings, they love to parade their volent behavior too.

The ignorance and hypocrisy shown on this article and the vast majority of its responders is really bleating out; I’m sure selective memories are well and truly the most “informed” right?

There’s a much bigger sense of self-entitlement here, and it’s not just from the rioting yobbos, also more from the far right “left-bashers”, who feel more butt hurt than anything when an “immigrant” comes in and “takes their job when its there by right”... maybe stop sucking so hard at your job? There’s more than meets the eye.

Also add on the fact those who keep saying “shoot the rioters” are 99.99999999999% too chicken to pull the trigger, let alone even lift up the rifle.

All I see is a cheap cop-out from the “enlightened” right, blaming others for their rubbish, as usual. You think you’re better than the far-left hippies? Heck no.

Pom in Aussie says:

12:06pm | 10/08/11

Well said albie. The lefty loonie bins in this world would always have an excuse for killing their own mothers if they had half a chance.
The people that are doing this are scum, pure and simple as that and should face the full force of the law.
And for the comment about having their benefits etc taken away from them is simply not true - they may have cut them back a little, however it’s damned if you do, or damned if you don’t the previous left wing Labour (British spelling before I get corrected) government in the country buggered the economy up so much, that drastic action had to be taken, also you have to remember that a fair proportion of these people causing the trouble have immigrated to the country (one way or the other) expecting handouts!

Sceptic says:

12:16pm | 10/08/11

@BT

What’s REALLY sad is your bizarre way of thinking.  Why doesn’t this occur in every other country in the western world that has these issues?

They should be told to get off their bum and get a job rather than accept pathetic excuses.  People survived the Depression without burning the city down.  How was this possible?

Your faulty thinking provides excuse for them to behave criminally.

If you are so concerned, why aren’t you letting these kids into your home and feeding them?

BT says:

01:04pm | 10/08/11

Sceptic, what’s wrong with you? You haven’t heard of the LA riots, the riots in Redfern?
Firstly, in the UK youth unemployment is at an all time high, about 20%. No jobs, no money, cuts to education, uni fees now beyond the reach of most, no apprenticeships, nothing.
Secondly, many people actually died of starvation or committed suicide during the Depression, so it’s a useless analogy.
Thirdly, why don’t I allow them into my home? Well that won’t exactly solve the problems. If you created a fair and transparent banking system, and all three branches of the legislature were rid of corruption well perhaps then things would get better.

John the ZOmbie says:

05:46pm | 10/08/11

If this is about unemployment and jobs then why have these youth deciede to target a Sikh Temple in Southhall

marley says:

09:42am | 11/08/11

@BT - the youth unemployment rate is indeed at an all-time high, boosted by an increase in unemployed 16 and 17 year olds.  So, we’re talking kids who can’t get work but don’t go to school.  I doubt they’re being affected by university fees. 

And yes, the government is cutting jobs - but I doubt these youths, with less than O levels, would be very like to get civil service jobs, which are the only ones the government can slash, after all.

As for “cheap labour imports” - umm, you do understand that we’re talking the UK here. Labour gets paid the same whether it’s foreign or domestic.  That’s just another furphy.

And employers may not be taking on apprentices, but why aren’t these kids then going back to school and getting themselves a secondary education?  It’s not the government’s job, nor private business, to force kids to finish high school.

Yes, these kids are stuck in a cycle of poverty.  But if you drop out of school at 15 or 16, what on earth do you expect is going to   happen in your future?

Xgenner says:

11:14am | 10/08/11

RyaN, that’s because they make up the majority of the lower socio economic profile.  It’d be easier to say that they’re like that because of the culture they come from, and that they’re the sort of people who have not been able to integrate well into society, or didn’t get the education and positive reinforcement or encouragement as kids and the opportunities to shine as another poster suggested, but that’d be racist, and we’re all not racist, I’m sure.

Ghost says:

12:19pm | 10/08/11

@Ryan

It’s simple mathematics.  The black people are the ones committing most of the crimes, ergo they will be photographed in most of the pictures.

You are welcome.

RyaN says:

12:33pm | 10/08/11

@Xgenner: but this is the same thing that was going on in the 2009 Franch riots, the media photos that were published almost seemed to target people who are black.
On your point then, why do they make up the majority of the lower socio economic profile? Just like Australia, Britain isn’t a country that discriminates based on race, everyone has the same opportunities, there is no apartheid there?

RyaN says:

01:21pm | 10/08/11

@Ghost: now that’s not very PC, there has to be other reasons surely?

Gregg says:

03:03pm | 10/08/11

@Ryan N
” On your point then, why do they make up the majority of the lower socio economic profile? Just like Australia, Britain isn’t a country that discriminates based on race, everyone has the same opportunities, there is no apartheid there? “
I’d expect there area few reasons and one is how have their parents or possibly just one parent fared in the workforce and that can go back however many generations to the first generation in a new land, possible language difficulties, education and training? and so perhaps it has not been easy for all to get into the workforce.

Without even looking at our own indigenous peoples trends, it is a known social system trend that many young employed people may have attitudes shaped by those of their parents, be it sit around on welfare in this situation.

If you just take what has happened in Australia with manufacturing industries as a result of the WTO level playing field principles and lesser work opportunities as a result, despite our supposedly low unemployment figures the ratio of gainfully employed to unemployed is likely to drop and Europe in general and the UK is already experiencing these kind of problems and so getting employment is more competitive.

In that enviroment it may not be declared that there is discrimination but on one hand it could be that a lot of employment occurs because of family contact, dad or num already working for the local grocer or in the plant or whatever and then for other employment, who knows just how much discrimination could occur.

If we look at employment rates here in Australia for indigenous people, for pacific islanders, people from islamic backgrounds etc., we would probably find significant differences to Australians of other backgrounds and skilled immigrants of other countries.
A recent report released gave figures of 80% of refugees being unemployed five years after arrival in Australia.

It could well be that the UK is not much different and perhaps already far worse given the population concentrations.

I met a guy backpacking about 20 years ago and already then he funded a lot of travelling by buying up material in Asia or wherever and heading to eastern Europe to hav a heap of fashionable clothing made and then it was back to western Europe to sell at their prices.
The more open borders now probably sees more and more of that and then you have those unable to get work in eastern Europe along with all the people crossing the med heading to Germany, France or the UK, a great melting pot of dissatisfied have nots and even before these riots, crime was rife according to what some who have lived there are saying.

What is the answer?
Abandon the WTO principles? , manage borders better!
But whatever happens, it’s a bit like when you put on weight and it can go on a lot more easily than taking it off and keeping it off.
Diets are known to really have only a temporary result if you do not adopt livestyle changes.

Along with changes is the need for some very heavy policing to weed out those who would rather riot than work/study/volunteer towards improving their lot in an honest way.

c'mon says:

07:09pm | 10/08/11

forgive me folks, I don’t want to simplify any of this too much, but I am dealing with kindergarten comprehension and understanding so .... ghost, you are a knob.

Rev says:

02:30pm | 10/08/11

We could send 800 of our prisoners to England, and accept 4,000 of theirs?  What could go wrong?

Kika says:

11:19am | 10/08/11

Agreed. Gen Y is a product of the baby boomers. Correlation? OF COURSE! When you are raised from an ‘entitled’ generation you get kids who are ‘entitled’.  What makes the boomers exempt from culpability for the state of the world considering they are the ones who have run it. THEIR parents grew up in a generation where they made do with what they had. The boomers grew up ‘special’ and saw the world as their own oyster.  I don’t understand why the Y’s get the blame for everything.

marley says:

11:30am | 10/08/11

Well now, speaking as a boomer, I do remember the influences on us to smoke.  Guess what? boomers these days have a very low smoking rate compared to the younger generations.  That’s because we took responsibility for making our own decisions and didn’t try to pass of the blame to “outside influences.”  Grow up and take responsibility.

Kika says:

11:47am | 10/08/11

What has smoking got to do with the problems in the world?

By the way, both my boomer parents smoke yet my sister and I (Gen Y) have never smoked. Not one of my friends or colleagues do either.

Took responsibility? Yeah sure. Look at the world. Boomers run the world and look what has become of it.

marley says:

09:19pm | 10/08/11

@Kika - you can’t blame the buy, buy, buy mentality on advertising.  You can only blame it on individual choice. That’s what smoking has to do with it.

As for the rest, boomers run the world - yeah, kind of, we’re that age.  It’ll be your turn soon enough.  And you’ll be fending off criticisms exactly like this.

The world we boomers inherited was nothing to write home about, (all those nukes, all that environmental degradation, apartheid and White Australia, Viet Nam and the oil crisis of the 70s and the recession of the 80s and stuff like that).

I grew up with no sense of entitlement at all. My family struggled all through my childhood.  Not too many frills and luxuries for me.  I was the first person in my family ever to go to university, and I paid for it myself.  I graduated just in time to hit the recession of the early 70s, when jobs were pretty damn hard to come by.  I was just about ready to buy my first house when interest rates hit 20%.  Entitlement? Nope, not me.

I worked hard to achieve what I’ve managed to achieve.

Is the world you’re going to inherit worse than the one I did? No, actually it’s not.  We live longer, enjoy a higher living standard, and haven’t seen a world war in 70 years.  And no nuclear armageddon either, which was what I grew up with.  If overconsumption is an issue (and it is) it’s in your hands to deal with it.  Don’t blame it on boomer advertising.  The choice to buy is yours and yours alone.

fml says:

11:44am | 10/08/11

Unfortunately the solution most people on here are suggesting are the exact causes of the problems.

Increase police presence, take even more away from them and if they complain shoot them. totally missing the social issues which created the situation.

Ryder says:

11:16am | 10/08/11

“BREAKING NEWS:
London’s Festival Of Multiculturalism Extended To Fourth Day!”

Excellent comment. I laughed out loud. It is so very true.

Xgenner says:

11:16am | 10/08/11

Obob, Love your news Headline!  Hilarious HAHAHA.  “Festival of Multiculturalism”.
If only it weren’t so serious, I’d be rolling around splitting my sides.  Fact is, when a party says ‘multiculturalism is dead’, you’re going to see alot of worried pollies and social planners thinking ‘what the heck will we do now’?

Mr Vibrant says:

02:09pm | 10/08/11

I prefer the term “Diversity Celebrations”.

bella starkey says:

12:12pm | 10/08/11

Yeah, um…

There was a riot in redfern a while back, but i haven’t seen any looting, fire bombing, etc since or for that matter previous to the riot.

Has the author ever been to redfern before? it is ever so gentrified.

Fiona Foster-Cartwell says:

12:24pm | 10/08/11

Oh my word that is the most dreadful news.

Anubis says:

01:20pm | 10/08/11

At least it was free range eggs - takes the load off those poor battery hens

LC says:

04:25pm | 10/08/11

^ One of the rioters? o_O

fml says:

11:41am | 10/08/11

Thats quite controversial Anna.

And what would you in your infinite wisdom base selection on?

Anna C says:

12:04pm | 10/08/11

Oh come on fml, I’m being facetious here. Don’t be so bloody earnest. You sure do rise up to the bait every time. Is it any wonder that I enjoy playing devil’s advocate so much when there are idealistic people like you who take everything so bloody seriously.

fml says:

01:07pm | 10/08/11

I agree it is inappropriate humor.

Al says:

12:20pm | 10/08/11

While I may agree some age control on video games may be appropriate, and I must admit Grand Theft Auto is a bit of a worry - this is oversimplistic.
Anyone who takes violent action based on nothign more than a game has exisiting psychological issues.

Give a video game to an idiot and he’ll do something stupid, give a stick to the same idiot and he’ll do the same thing,

Ryder says:

12:57pm | 10/08/11

I agree Al. We need to ban sticks as well.

RyaN says:

01:19pm | 10/08/11

I did yesterday, before you crazies got in on the action. I blamed drugs and video games, but I think considering the replies I think we should blame drugs, video games, TV, rock and roll and sex before marriage. These “people” couldn’t possibly know what they are doing and take personal responsibility, poor things.

Ryder says:

03:12pm | 10/08/11

Yes RyaN.

An immediate ban of drugs, video games, TV, rock & roll and sex before marriage is long overdue. Oh, and sticks.

RyaN says:

03:58pm | 10/08/11

@Ryder: I agree, sticks are not blameless in this, neither are stones for that matter.

Cam says:

12:36pm | 10/08/11

Ummm Hitler was a Christian….

Bernard says:

03:32pm | 10/08/11

Ummm why did Hitler then wrote “National Socialism and religion cannot exist together….” Do your homework before you write Cammy

Snap says:

04:01pm | 10/08/11

Ummm no he wasn’t. I’m athiest, so don’t think I’m bible bashing.

Qoute from Hitler’s Mein Kumpf

“National Socialism and religion cannot exist together…. The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity’s illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity…. Let it not be said that Christianity brought man the life of the soul, for that evolution was in the natural order of things”.

Kika says:

11:49am | 10/08/11

Agreed!!

Anna C says:

12:12pm | 10/08/11

Worried for my generation, and those that will fol, I can sympathise with your sentiments. Even after the baby boomers retire they will still be a formidable force who will be able to wield undue influence on governments.

I have two words for you: “Logan’s Run.”

GB says:

12:33pm | 10/08/11

What an absolute cop out!!!!!!!!! Typical Y Generation attitude. Blame everybody else before you for your woes in life. Give me a break.

Still worried says:

12:59pm | 10/08/11

GB- I dont have any woes in my life. I worked my ass off through school and uni, and now have a decent job and so am able to pay my stupidly high mortgage with no problems…. However, I am not worried for me - I’m worried for those not in my situation, and for my children (if I am brave enough to have any). I could (stupidly) say that your attitude is typical of your generation… but I’m not as dumb as you (and stupidity is not generational - its just the way you are).

Kika says:

01:49pm | 10/08/11

Blame everybody else? Why not? We don’t run the shop yet. We are still working for you boomers.

marley says:

07:48pm | 10/08/11

Oh, bulldust.  Check who founded Greenpeace and most of the other environmental movements. Hint: it wasn’t gen X or Y. 

You think you inherited a pile of crap? We grew up with nuclear bomb drills in school.  Give me a break.

And while you’re at it, check who enjoyed the fruits of the boomers’  getting married in their early 20s, having mortgages at 24 or 25, and building on all of that and providing opportunities for our kids that boomers didn’t have.  Who benefitted from all that crazy consumption? That would be you, gen Y.  And you’re still consuming.  Whose fault is that? 

And yeah, the oldies are still in power. I remember quite clearly the slogan of the 60s - never trust anyone over 30.  We didn’t,  you don’t, that’s fine.  Just don’t think for one minute you’re being original.

Shane From Melbourne says:

08:23pm | 10/08/11

@Marley-who enjoyed free education, a job boom and low cost mortgages? The baby boomers. The fact is that the baby boomers have most of the wealth and power and they ain’t going to give it up. Want to solve the GFC and riots in UK? Don’t shoot the rioters, start shooting baby boomers. At the very least it will stop social security and public health budget blowouts.

marley says:

08:46am | 11/08/11

@Shane - sorry, but you really need to do a bit of research before making grossly inaccurate statements.  FYI, I didn’t get a free university education (I grew up in Canada where post-secondary education has never been free - and I wouldn’t have gotten a free education here either, given the years I was in university).

Mortgage rates?  20% doesn’t sound like a low mortgage to me.  In fact, I deferred buying until the mortgage rate dropped to a “low” 9%.

And no, I didn’t go into a job boom.  The employment rate in Canada back in the mid 70s was pretty much what it is now. And Australia’s rates at that time were a bit higher than they are today. 

As for not wanting to give up the material goods and savings I’ve accumulated - well,  not counting the jobs I had while I was in university, I worked for 34 years to get what I have now. I avoided debt (except for the mortgage), only bought what I had the money to pay for, and I made a point of saving a part of my pay cheque every month.  I denied myself quite a few things when I was in my 20s to get to where I am now.  Damned right I’m not handing over the profits from 34 years of work to some gen X or Y’er.  Why on earth should I? Would you?

Al Chunk says:

12:26pm | 10/08/11

New to blogs then?

Jackie says:

01:01pm | 10/08/11

Interesting theory Kika, I think of all the 2012 end of days theories. The way we lived for so long is collapsing around us, US & Europeon economies in tatters & these pointless riots…The End is NIgh..

Steve says:

02:02pm | 10/08/11

You might be right Kika. The dark ages coincided with a period of global cooling. Agricultural production was the biggest part of the economy and food production fell as a result of the cooler weather.

the reneacance was the start of a period of warming which resulted in increased wealth from better production.

We are transitioning through the peak of western power into an era os Asian domination.. We are well placed in Australia to go along for the ride.

Redeker Plan says:

02:13pm | 10/08/11

Three words.
Inevitable. Zombie. Apocalypse.
That is all.

fml says:

01:06pm | 10/08/11

So you would be the first to be culled aye?

RB says:

02:46pm | 10/08/11

And you would be 2nd fml…..

fml says:

03:52pm | 10/08/11

Only if i supported eugenics, which is quite obvious that i don’t, anyway Anna C said she was being facetious.

RB says:

02:49pm | 10/08/11

Very true Chris.Agree 100%.

Shenanigans says:

03:36pm | 10/08/11

think of the society we would live in if Germany had of won WW2, a strong society where civil unrest would be put down with an iron fist, I’m in no way a neo-nazi nor do i support any of the ideals Hitler or his party had and i do recognise we would possible be living in constant fear of being executed for over stepping our allocated lot, would that not be marginally better then young anarchists causing things like this because they aren’t happy with how they fucked there own lives up because they are beyond useles.

My ancestors who went agaisnt their own people, who fled their homes and fought alongside your ancestors for the freedom we now take for granted would be ashamed of what Britian and Australia have turned into.

Soylent Green says:

12:43pm | 10/08/11

Spot on - licensed breeding schemes to avoid over supply the warehousing costs of the useless are very high.

John says:

12:54pm | 10/08/11

After WWII, Communist subverts ordered the English politicians around to embraced third world immigration and multiculturalism in deliberate policy to destroy the white christian society of England. Ever since the 1960’s they’ve been terrorizing the white christian population not speak out against multiculturalism, been covering up immigrant crimes. Today the whole thing has blown up in their faces. Now the communist socialist media is now doing it’s best to cover up the entire thing as their communist power in europe is starting weaken.

fml says:

01:09pm | 10/08/11

Most of the idiots are not even covering their faces, in a country where almost every inch is covered by cctv. They probably burnt all the shops with balaclavas in it anyway.

fml says:

01:31pm | 10/08/11

Hey hey John,

Found the socialist boogie men hiding under your bed yet?

Continually wetting your bed seems to be a decent deterrent.

Kika says:

02:28pm | 10/08/11

Guerilla Radio - Rage Against the Machine
Thieves in the temple - Prince
Exodus - Bob Marley

Anna C says:

03:05pm | 10/08/11

“Soundtrack to the London Riots” Volume 2:

* It’s hot in the city” by Billy Idol
* It’s not the end of the world but I can see it from here” by Lostprophets
* Til the world ends” by Britney Spears
* “The end of the world” by The Cure
* It ain’t over until it’s over” by Lenny Kravitz
* Police Story” by Black Flag
* Burn baby burn” by Ash
* “F**k the Police by NWA
* Don’t break by heart, my achy breaky heart” by Billy Ray Cyrus.

Tator says:

05:38pm | 10/08/11

burning down the house - talking heads

Kika says:

02:40pm | 10/08/11

UK without gangsters??? Since when? There’s been thugs there FOREVER. Celts vs Romans vs Saxons vs Vikings vs Jutes vs Normans vs Knights vs Robin Hood vs the Irish vs the Scots vs Welsh (not really).... UK has always been a melting pot of thugs. HENCE why Australia exists as it is today. Otherwise we would have been speaking French!

Ben81 says:

02:24pm | 10/08/11

*headdesk*

Waza says:

02:40pm | 10/08/11

Correct.  England and America are becoming 3rd world countries and China is advancing beyond belief at the moment.  And believe me I live in China.

marley says:

07:35pm | 10/08/11

Oh come off it.  China right now is into the robber baron capitalism stage that the UK went through in the 18th and 19th century, and the US in the late 19th and 20th.  The Chinese will have the same issues in the not too distant future.

LC says:

04:10pm | 10/08/11

Source please.

A reliable one, if you don’t mind.

jenni says:

04:38pm | 10/08/11

Another load of absolute cocky poop!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Where do you leftys get this garbage from?
Planet of the apes or Master Chef?

LC says:

04:54pm | 10/08/11

Jenni, it’s sounds more like conspiracy theorist to me.

Not a leftie or a rightie, just a goddamn idiot.

Thommo says:

10:28am | 11/08/11

I supplied the link to the Sky News article but The PUnch doesn’t seem to want to have the truth be known.

Greg says:

06:36pm | 10/08/11

Gee, The Sun wouldn’t disproportionately publish selected photos to suit a particular agenda, would it?

Maybe a better indicator would be to look at the photos of people volunteering to clean up the mess. There is an overwhelming racial bias in those photos.

fml says:

04:13pm | 10/08/11

I know its not what you mean, but the characterisation of the marginalisation of the monkeys from that particular film is quite an apt description.

Hard Man says:

02:59pm | 10/08/11

How well off you are is largely determined by your own decisions, motivation and work ethic. There is a massive gulf between the haves and have nots in every country. In the UK, the poor do get welfare, they also get free medical. China and India have huge gaps between poor and rich and no welfare system and do they see these riots? No.

fml says:

04:11pm | 10/08/11

Hard Man,

No riots in china?

as for india.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Riots_in_India

Greg says:

05:43pm | 10/08/11

Tell me Marilyn, where did your seething hatred of white people come from?

It’s clearly evident in every post you make. Even other extremist leftists distance themselves from you.

Cam says:

07:29pm | 10/08/11

This ‘whiney white person’ is sick of us having to clean up the mess made by the un-white masses who couldn’t form a 1st world democracy if they tried!

marley says:

07:32pm | 10/08/11

@Marilyn - well, a lot of the people complaining about what is going on in England aren’t white.  They’re seeing their homes and businesses trashed by thugs who think, somehow, that the government owes them a living.  I don’t know quite where you come up with your racist views that only white people can be successful in business….

Cpl Punishment says:

04:51pm | 10/08/11

And a haircut!

LC says:

05:52pm | 10/08/11

If you asked the looters, I’m pretty sure they’d admit to using TV, films, novels and probably soap and toothpaste as well. Videogames nowadays are equally as common.

Correlation does not mean causation.

drg says:

06:05pm | 10/08/11

@LC fair enough, then ban all forms of violent entertainment. fine by me.  what else could cause thousands of teenagers to think it’s totally fine to behave the way they did? i reckon if they didn’t have access to any forms of violent entertainment then i’d doubt you had have half as many of participators in these riots.

Ren says:

07:28pm | 10/08/11

I personally have been playing violent games since their invention and they have at no time at all made me want to carry out the in game actions. Not only that I can tell you that GTA doesnt “teach” you how to a thing.
Its not like prior to GTA I didnt know how to pick up a crowbar and break a window with it. I am pretty sure prior to playing GTA if I wanted to I could have driven my car into someone.  And yes shock horror, prior to playing GTA I even knew how to use a lighter.

I am thinking about any possible skill whatsoever good or bad that I may have learnt from GTA and sorry I got nothing.

I just had a bit of fun. Thats what games are about.

Why dont people blame, let say, the movie Saw everytime someone gets murdered? It has very realistic depictions of hatred, torture, violence, basically the worst a human can be. Blame it.

There where riots before there where video games. People turned cars over, set fire to things, smashed windows and generally acted like wankers. I think instead of pointing the finger at games maybe we should open our eyes and try to see what other underlying social issues there is that are causing these misguided youth to act like this.

Just because we found out Rock and Roll doesnt turn people into demon spawn doesnt mean we need to make the same stupid assumptions on video games.

LC says:

08:48pm | 10/08/11

@drg

Sigh, here we go again…

Firstly my point was not only videogames, but all those forms of media are about as common in everyday western households as soap other hygiene products. It’s equally as plausible to blame the riots on soap, but no-one’s done that yet…
. Look, we’ve had this argument for EVERY SINGLE new form of media that’s been introduced. We’ve had it for TV, we’ve had it for movies, we’ve had it for rock and rap music, comic books, even bloody dancing and jazz music if you go look back around 110-120 years into modern history. All have been blamed for the ills of society. All of which were absolute garbage invented by family groups at the time to create a single scapegoat to hang the ills of society on, rather than accepting that violence in society (including youth violence) cannot be boiled down to merely a single issue. There a lots of factors which contribute to it, in particular for this case, lack of discipline by schools or parents, lack of respect for others and alcohol abuse.

People have driven a cars into others, looted shops, broken things with crowbars and set things alight well before today. We’ve had riots for as long as we’ve had human history. We’ve also had bigger atrocities committed before that, things like socially acceptable slavery, things like the Spanish Inquisition, things like communism, things like Nazism and a guy called “Hitler”. All done WELL before Grand Theft Auto apparently invented violence. All done before computer games were even on the drawing board.

Did your parents try and stop you from listen to rock music or reading comics because they believed that it led to violent behavior? If so, go look at yourself in a mirror.

Ryder says:

08:50pm | 10/08/11

@Ren

You stated, “I personally have been playing violent games since their invention.”

So Ren, where are the bodies hidden?

jenni says:

04:43pm | 10/08/11

Come on!
And this is an excuse for the type of violence and cowardly (with a capital C) actions that we have been seeing by minority groups.
Strongly suggest that you see a mental health expert for some well needed help deary!

ZSRenn says:

05:06pm | 10/08/11

@ jenni When someone does not have an argument they attack the commentator. Prove to me what I say is not true. Prove that the gap between rich and poor is not increasing exponentially.

China is aware that this gap bought about the change in government initially with the overthrow of the emperor 80 years ago and later in 1949.

They are doing everything they can to make sure such a wide gap does not occur again. We just look at China with contempt yet we have so much to learn from 5000 years of civilization.

If these rioters were content they would not riot. They are not content, they are angry.

Look at the now biannual downturn in the stock market. Who comes off worse? The Ma and Pa investors like you and I with our superannuation. The big money people just sit back absorb the cost and move on to higher profits.

We are being robbed by the 1% everyday and people like you are too stupid to see it. Or are you one of the 1%?

jenni says:

05:38pm | 10/08/11

Of course a typical lefty latte drinker pc argument reply.
What else would you expect.
You still haven’t answered the question, what gives these thugs, and lets face it, thats what they are, the right to endanger peoples lives who have done no harm to them, destroy property and straight out thieve?
From what I can see they not only have targeted the rich, they have targeted those of the middle and lower classes as well - jobs, homes, government services etc.
Also, please justify the scenes shown on television last night where a poor lad who obviously been bashed by these hoons was robbed whilst they were pretending to help the guy - not nice and here you are sticking up for them which is not pretty either.
Makes one wonder where you would stand if something like this was to happen in Australia - not sure, but perhaps on the other side of the police lines?
But of course only you would be able to answer that.

Greg says:

06:06pm | 10/08/11

So where were all the equivalent riots during the 1930s Great Depression, when poverty was even more widespread and wealth differences were far greater that they currently are?

The difference between the 1930s and now is multiculturalism and multiracialism. These policies always end in disaster and social breakdown.

From the fall of Rome when the Romans recruited “barbarians” into their army, through to the decline of the Spanish, British and Soviet Empires, right down to the breakup of Yugoslavia, Czechoslovakia, India/Pakistan and even Sudan earlier this year, the story is the same.

No great country has ever arisen from multicultural origins. On the contrary, multiculturalism is a clear sign of a nation in terminal decline.

Only those who are completely ignorant of all human history can deny this obvious fact.

LC says:

06:21pm | 10/08/11

@ZSRenn

Social media isn’t that bad. Without it, they’d have never caught at least five people who incited the riots. The internet is a public medium, and thankfully these dumb kids have forgotten that. Even more so with facebook, where you’d use your real name and probably have real pictures of you.

If they organized them privately at their home with a few mates over a few beers, who went and told their mates, who went and told their mates etc etc, where’s the guarantee they have been caught? The looters could’ve very well not said anything about them and it’d be much more difficult to prove they did anything wrong.

If you like China’s nanny state policies so much, maybe you should move there?

ZSRenn says:

07:10pm | 10/08/11

@jenni. I really do suggest you go back and read some of my earlier comments on other stories. You do not have a clue who you are calling a latte sipping lefty.

I am a realist and this is the reality.

Of course they do not have the right to do this, I never suggested they did, but this disparity of wealth is what is driving their anger.

The world including Australia needs to accept that fact or face the consequences.

What the fuck is the loss of an insured TV in the UK compared to the maybe $5000AU hit my superannuation took this week to me.

I am pissed off too and can relate to the pain, these poor are going through. I am not a lefty, the rest of the punch users will attest to that. I am against bad government and at the moment we have governments who are letting 1% of the population live in splendor while we beg for crumbs on the street.

What makes it worse in Australia we have the worst government in Australian history at the helm crying “all is well” “all is well” and trying to bring in a Carbon Tax which is going to make all of lives worse and telling us it is for the people. Yet the 1% will not even be bothered by it.

We the middle class in Australia are being robbed and robbed again, shafted like a girl in a John Holmes movie by both the 1% and by the Brown/Gillard government. Yet they call themselves left wing and will expect our vote when we are driven to lower class and wonder why we are rioting in the street.

ZSRenn says:

08:21pm | 10/08/11

@ LC Bullshit!

Any social media site that allows itself to be used as staging ground for rioting causing millions of dollars of destruction and in China’s case 1000’s of deaths is compliant in these actions and deserves the full force of the law as do the rioters.

Wow they caught 5 whoopee do! These social ( In this case I use the term loosely) web sites allow not just a couple of mates but thousands of mates to organize quickly and quietly without fuss. Not just a couple.

I live in China for 6 months of the year and have more freedom here than you could ever imagine in Australia under our Nanny State laws.

ZSRenn says:

08:37pm | 10/08/11

@ Greg and only sheep can ignore the fact that they are being herded! The 1% use the poor and multiculturalism as a scape goat, pointing there finger, saying look it’s their fault. Blame them! Not us.

The sad part is that these are the people most affected. They are the ones that are suffering and you sit in your big white dream of superiority, suffering as well, struggling from day to day, trying to meet credit card debt, housing debt with savings stripped away going Bah! Bah! I agree Mr. 1% it is their fault all the way to the slaughter. .

Look history says it didn’t happen in the past so it must be their fault forgetting the modern aspects of communication, drug and alcohol abuse that have fuelled this anger at being impoverished.

LC says:

10:56pm | 10/08/11

@ZSRenn

http://www.facebook.com/terms.php
Facebook does not allow the incitement or encouragement of violence. Check section 3, part 7. But as with any other rule in society, there are people who break them. They’ll ban users who do so, and obviously in major cases like this, will co-operate with authorities to catch them. Admittedly, moderation could be a bit stricter but at the end of the day, they’d be a operating a lot more quietly if they went about it the way I described. The internet is a public medium. There is always someone that can see what they’re doing. Hell, some of those caught in the rioting will be found to have been encouraging others to join using Facebook.

Australia has it’s share of rubbish nanny state policies, yes, but (for now) it does not come close to China’s level. Let’s take a quick look shall we?
Economic totalitarianism? China has it, we don’t.
Censorship & prosecution of government dissenters? China has it, we don’t.
A list of crimes against humanity a mile long? China has it, we don’t.
Seriously, I really want some of what you’re smoking if you think otherwise.

Greg says:

11:22pm | 10/08/11

@ ZSRenn, so you couldn’t make a rebuttal against any of the points that I made then, so you decided to post meaningless drivel?

Let me spell it out for you. As the Great Depression proved, being poor and impovrished does not provoke rioting. They also had drugs and alcohol back then, and communications had recently been advanced by radio broadcasting, which had a far bigger impact in its day than twitter or texting. Furthermore, they didn’t have the vast social welfare entitlements system as an economic support. Unlike today’s rioters.

The difference is multiculturalism, which has always resulted in social tension wherever and whenever it has been inflicted upon a people.

The fact is that western culture is white culture. It was developed by white people, and it reflects white values and the white work ethic. Is it really any surprise that white people are best adapted to it, and generally outperform other races within their own self-created environment?

It’s not a question of white supremacism either. If white people are placed in a non-western culture, then they often tend to underperform.

It’s always the same races and cultures that cannot succeed in Western societies. It doesn’t matter if the society is North American, European or Australian. No amount of affirmative action and special benefits have any lasting effect.

These people resent their lack of success, and become envious of white success. But rather than face up to the real reasons for the difference, which might hurt their level of self-esteem, they are told by leftists that all their problems are due to white racism.

This is despite the fact that some foreign cultures, like Jews and East Asians, can adapt quite well to western culture, and are capable of outperfoming whites, even without any affirmative action.

For some reason all those hateful white racists must collectively forget to oppress Jews and East Asians. It must be a big conspiracy, coordinated world wide in all Western countries!

This is why multiculturalism is always and everywhere a recipe for community tension and lack of social cohesion. It’s obvious, and it’s visible every day to anybody who has their eyes open.

It takes a huge media effort and a huge suspension of disbelief to enable anybody to think that multiculturalism is anything but a disaster.

ZSRenn says:

06:54am | 11/08/11

@ LC And yet it has allowed itself 3 times to my knowlege to be used in this manner causing millions of dollars of damage and 1000’s of deaths.

You really do need to travel and stop believing the western propaganda you are being fed.  I do not mind not having to read about so and sos’ new baby or Aunt Flo’s fucking op if it means saving lives.

@ Greg You are a racist or you are part of the machine that wants all the sheep to hate! I cant work it out http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14449675 if you want proof against your idiodic theory. Bahhhhh! Bahhhhhh!

LC says:

10:08am | 11/08/11

When it comes to gutter journalism like “so and sos’ new baby or Aunt Flo’s f***ing op” That kind of rubbish is better confined to magazines like Womans Weekly and Who so the mindless who want to dabble in the personal affairs of celebrities can, and leave the rest of us whom just want to watch the news to find out what’s going on here and around the world alone. This much I agree on.

So what would’ve happened if China joined those wars in the Middle East and in Vietnam (which I will admit never should’ve been started, dealing with terrorism is a domestic issue)? Do you think they’d have been nicer to the country they’ve invaded? I doubt it. War is unpleasant, and makes otherwise nice and friendly people of all races and creeds do horrible things they would otherwise not even consider doing. It’s always been the case, always will be the case.

Despite probably looking at the very same evidence you have, I’ve reached the opposite conclusion. Currently human rights domestically are better in the West and even in Japan than in China.

When it comes to the use of social media, I prefer the approach of the West, which ONLY holds those who do the wrong thing accountable when they screw up, rather than China’s attitude which punishes EVERYONE before they even have a chance to stuff up. This falls in line with the presumtion of innocence, which hopefully I can safely assume you agree is better than China’s presumtion of guilt.

Greg says:

12:35pm | 11/08/11

ZSRenn, is that really all you’ve got? Infantile name-calling and a pointless link to the BBC website?

Hahahaha!

Oh well, I guess you are doing such a good job of making an idiot out of yourself that I don’t need to bother.

John says:

06:36pm | 10/08/11

Makes you wonder how many millions of dollars of damage these people have caused. Britain is in huge, debt, then there is the likely hood of the white working class leaving London for good. London will turn into a ghost town.  I’m sure many Londoners are planning to get out of London as soon as possible. Either immigrate to other country’s or other safe English city’s.

Greg says:

05:45pm | 10/08/11

If a country imports third world people it becomes a third world country.

The Brits could have voted for the BNP, but they voted for parties that supported multiculturalism.

Now they are going to get the inevitable consequences.

fml says:

06:03pm | 10/08/11

Greg,

You think that the BNP is a suitable political alternative?

Whats their economic policy? what is their political experience? how would they deal with international trade relations with foreign investors?

Answer to all: Kick their head in.

Well done mate.

Greg II says:

06:50pm | 10/08/11

I heard it was generational, but I’m not sure why the generation who inherits the world we are creating would be annoyed…

Ryder says:

08:57pm | 10/08/11

Fml,
I would rather see a political party start kicking some heads in than the see the corrupt mealy mouthed multiculturalist promoting parties we have now all bending over backwards to sell out their own citizens to global interests.

Greg says:

10:03pm | 10/08/11

fml, if you can read multi-syllable words, you will find the BNP’s policies in their manifesto on their website, including their economic policies, international relations and foreign investment.

They have plenty of political experience, with representatives elected to local councils, the London Assembly and the European Parliament.

They don’t have any policies to kick anybody’s head in, unlike the so-called “United Against Fascism” thugs who are regularly arrested for violent crimes, yet still enjoy continued backing and support from both Labour and Tory MPs, including the Prime Minister Cameron.

Those are the facts, and they will remain true and independently verifiable no matter how many tantrums you throw, and no matter how many lies you tell.

Steve says:

07:23pm | 10/08/11

I read the speach Enoch. Irrespective of whether or not you agree with the content the most interesting thing is that the speach would be illegal today under a host of laws but certainly racial vilification laws in Australia. I assume the UK has similar if not more strident laws.

Enoch says:

09:39am | 11/08/11

Agreed Steve, the world has changed greatly since that guys day , but as he said ” All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.”

By accepting more and more people from different countries, they in fact raised the population and lowered the standard of living for their original population , if you would compare the governments attitude om immigration to a listed company ,  poorly managed ,they issue more and more shares till they are insolvent and the shares are worthless.

LC says:

09:09pm | 10/08/11

Does 27 and fitting squarely into Gen Y fit your definition of young person?

If so, please act all outraged and surprised when I say I DO NOT feel that I am excluded, repressed, exploited, marginalized or anything other than happy about where I am now. I have studied hard and now am working hard for a life for myself that I am quite satisfied with. Yes, it could be better in a few areas, but with time, patience and hard work it will be.

To me, the riots are just a bunch of offspring from apathetic parents and mere spoiled brats who’ve never known discipline, self-discipline, self-respect, let alone respect for others, going on an opportunistic theft-vandalism-arson-and-assault-a-thon for the sake of it.

ZSRenn says:

09:54pm | 10/08/11

@ LC 27 amazing your comments show the ignorance of a 10 year old!

LC says:

09:15am | 11/08/11

As do yours ZSRenn.

Rolls eyes…

LC says:

08:50pm | 10/08/11

I blame AGW too. Those 22 degree Celsius temperatures they’ve had in the middle of the London summer has clearly pissed a few people off

countryboy says:

05:45am | 11/08/11

No we don’t Con. People here ignore violence just the same. I’ve been assaulted in the middle of the day in Hyde park in Sydney surrounded by many people and noone came to help. There are many glib stupid remarks made here all with glib stupid answers that mean nothing.

Sceptic says:

06:57am | 11/08/11

Not sure anyone said the Indians were looters.

Richard Rountree says:

07:03am | 11/08/11

I agree. As an Australian security guard, some of the best guards I have worked with are Indian and Paki. They go in (to violence) where others fear to tread, and they are only half my size. Yes- they know they have to protect what they value.

But in all these cases, we in Australia are like our counterparts in the UK- we can only use our bare hands as security guards (or dogs). We cannot carry batons or any effective tool- thanks to wussy politicians. We can be of no effective help to the police unless commissioned under some sort of special powers and allowed to carry the same weaponry as police (but what did their masters allow them to use in these riots. They might well have been throwing powder puffs at the rioters for what good it did. And given the number of questionables in some forces these days there would probably be a good supply of powder puffs.

JOhn the Zombie says:

10:07am | 11/08/11

sceptic I am arging against the ppl who here say it is to do with multicuturalism

marley says:

07:27am | 11/08/11

Well, I dunno, I watched a couple of clips last night, and the thugs, male and female, looked to be from all races.

LC says:

11:04pm | 10/08/11

But our courts are just as pissweak as England’s.

LC says:

10:48am | 11/08/11

Elighten me, how exactly are they being oppressed?

And does it really compare to what’s happening to the citizens of Libya and Syria?

Ghost says:

06:51am | 11/08/11

You’re a whinging Pom right Sean? Fix your own backyard before you look at others.

marley says:

07:25am | 11/08/11

At least we in Aus have backyards to go back to .

Oh, and I doubt we’re going to trash Britain for years to come.  First of all, we don’t care enough about it, and second, you seem to be doing a better job of it than we could ever do.

marley says:

09:04am | 11/08/11

So, you’d prefer it if the rioters had easy access to firearms?

marley says:

09:03am | 11/08/11

Or maybe it’s because mosques don’t have anything worth stealing, whereas electronics shops and ladies with jewellery do.  And I haven’t seen any churches in flames either.

Adun says:

09:26am | 11/08/11

Haven’t seen any Churches on fire either, or did I miss that?

Ange says:

02:37pm | 11/08/11

“We see theft and lack of respect across the board and whilst the rich do it via gambling the stock markets to oblivion and Governments rush to shore up their losses with tax payer funding, the poor do it by burning and ransacking their local communities”

Got it in one matey