It’s 9am on Christmas morning and I am standing in a queue in a rather ornate, grandiose building in Sydney.

Christmas can be a seasonal celebration as much as a religious one. Pic: Getty Images

I am among the many worshippers at the Church of Mary Immaculate in Waverley. And I am about to receive Communion.

Except I am a Jew, a traditional Jew who only weeks prior had a candelabra flickering in my window for eight nights in celebration of the miracle of Hannukah, when the Greeks tried – but failed – to annihilate the Jews and our holy temple more than 2000 years ago.

The queue shortens quickly, and I only have a fleeting moment to ponder an exit strategy, a nanosecond to cut and run.

But before I can even try to rationalise religion, or ponder the fact that Jesus was in fact a Jew, I am standing face to face with the elderly priest, who is holding out a wafer that I’m told represents the body of Jesus Christ.

No, I’m not reneging on my religion, severing ties to my ancient heritage or converting to Christianity.

I’m reciprocating a favour to an old mate that dates back to 2004 when my twin girls were named in a synagogue in Melbourne.

He’s an Irish Catholic from a small town near Dublin who grew up in a school run by Carmelite monks. He and his wife came to our baby-naming ceremony and, because they were seated alongside us, the gentleman in charge of rituals assumed it would be reasonable to ask him to hold the holy Torah – an auspicious honour.

Before he could utter a syllable in his strong Irish accent he was up on stage holding the ancient parchment scroll of the Old Testament.

So when he asked me on Christmas morning to take him to church, I figured this was my moment of truth – time to see if I would be prepared to do what he had done for me.

He’s not religious per se, but religion enveloped his upbringing and people across the globe – especially in Ireland – had been saying prayers for him over the past seven months since he was diagnosed with a malignant brain tumour.

Those prayers were answered just three days before Christmas when a neurosurgeon in Sydney removed what he described as a tumour the size of an avocado from the back of his head.

His wife and kids were staying at my place. They prayed he’d survive the surgery and be with his family for Christmas. Santa played his part.

Now, I was being asked to play mine. But I wanted to bow out. I knew intrinsically this was not a place for a Jew, let alone one who can trace his lineage back to a rabbi in Europe centuries ago.

“Just say ‘Body of Christ’,” my mate advised me.

I shuffled towards the priest.

“Body of Christ,” I muttered.

In return I received a wafer – not dissimilar to the crackers we Jews eat during Passover.

I put it in my mouth and managed to avoid the second priest offering sips of wine – the blood of Jesus.

“What does the wafer mean?”

“The body of Christ is in you,” said my mate.

My throat tightened. My brain scrambled momentarily, incapable of computing such a sentence.

On the way out of church, my mate dabbed his finger in the holy water from a basin and made the sign of the cross on his head and chest. Then he did the same to me.

Not only had I received Communion, I’d been all but baptised on Christmas Day.

As we returned to my house, a Christmas tree was proudly standing in the doorway in order that his wife and kids would feel at home on this very, very special day.

But my house is a Jewish home. I’ve never had a Christmas tree. It’s anathema to my religion. It’s not in my DNA. It represents another world, albeit one in which I exist.

When we first discussed a tree, I admit to being nonplussed, to put it diplomatically. To me it represented a red line, the crossing (pardon the pun) of the Rubicon. I seriously struggled with the idea, I worried about the mixed messages it would send my children, and yes what the neighbours would think.

Then my wife came home with a long narrow box. I called some friends for advice. Lights? Trinkets? A star atop?

On reflection, Christmas was a wonderful day. Not only did my mate live to celebrate it with his family and mine, I got a sneak peak inside the rituals of a religion that, frankly, is not so far removed from mine. The prayers and penitence, rites and rituals are virtually one in the same.

In the end, those who were praying on Saturday, December 25 – be it in church or synagogue – were all no doubt seeking a similar end game: purification, forgiveness, thanks giving, spirituality over materiality.

As Benjamin Disraeli, the former British PM who was born a Jew but baptised as a young child, once said: “Judaism is not complete without Christianity and without Judaism, Christianity would not exist.”

Still, I know there’ll be some in my tribe who would disown me, accuse me of heresy, blasphemy and other transgressions. And that’s OK by me.

All I can say to them is this: forgive me rabbi for I have not sinned.

105 comments

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    • Goldenfaber says:

      05:38am | 08/01/11

      That was almost cute.God bless.

    • Simo says:

      08:07am | 09/01/11

      You are a true friend. You and your family know just how important it is to be respectful and loyal. 
      This made such a strong comparison to an article in Canberra Times about Liberal politician Sussan Ley who went pig hunting for her Christmas - not only is she bragging about killing kangaroos, foxes and goats on her twitter but she has put a link to the article. That would have to be the most disgusting thing I have seen of a politician in a long time- not sure what religion (if any) she is, although a google search shows up strong Palestinian sympathies.

    • PaulB says:

      11:06am | 09/01/11

      Right Simo. Palestinian sympathies…must be a bad person to not profess undying love of the Chosen Ones upon demand.

    • Pekish says:

      06:54pm | 09/01/11

      To encourage more people back to communion they should supply some dips or condiments

    • Simo says:

      09:52pm | 09/01/11

      PaulB - point was not her Palestinian sympathies - that is her choice and I didn’t mean to criticise for. My point was the contrast between someone celebrating and sharing and giving thanks for what they have - regardless of religion and beliefs and the tactless act by one of our senior politicans who has proudly tallied up the number of defenceless animals she had shot for her Christmas pleasure…Athiest or Christian, surely you would agree that is poor form

    • Syl says:

      08:59am | 10/01/11

      Simo

      So it’s poor form for her to talk about something she enjoyed doing, that is not illegal (or immoral, hunting is not against any religion, and has existed, and provided people with food for longer than religion has ever existed) because you don’t approve?
      It is not disgusting at all, in all honesty its nice to see a polly talking about something in their personal life that is not pandering to the do-gooders or trying to please everyone.

      Oh, and on topic, well done on attending your mates church.  Im an Athiest who was raised christian and I can understand how far out of your comfort level that must have been.

    • acotrel says:

      02:05pm | 10/01/11

      Disraeli was a smart man!

    • deb says:

      06:56am | 08/01/11

      you showed true christianity? what ever religion you happen to be.as a child i never went to church and once as a five year old i remember being dressed up and told i was to go to sunday school for some strange reason,so all cleaned up i went out and jumped in a mud puddle.never did go and havent missed it yet.

    • marley says:

      07:20am | 08/01/11

      Well, then, Mr. Goldberg has shown rather more rather more willingness than you to actually try to learn something about a faith of which he is not a part, and to understand those who believe in that faith.  He isn’t and never will be a Christian, but he’s been willing to explore something alien to his beliefs, because he knows that there are good people, his friend included, who are Christians, and he believed that experiencing something of their faith can bring him closer to his friends.  Good on him for trying to expand his understanding of the things that make people tick.

    • True Believer says:

      11:11am | 08/01/11

      Dan what you did was a beautiful gift of love for your friend. Although to Christians communion is particularly sacred -( in fact I as I Protestant Christian am not permitted to join other believers in communion in a Catholic Church because that is the rule in their denomination) - I know God sees the heart and the motives.

      I can appreciate your dilemma - some years back I attended the Jewish synagogue for the funeral of a dear Jewish woman. For me it was so strange to hear the scriptures being read without reference to Jesus!! It was a beautiful ceremony for a lovely lady. 

      The most fulfilling service I attended was in Israel at a congregation of Messianic Jews, that is, those Jews who have acknowledged Jesus as the Messiah.  It was wonderful to see the fruition of God’s plan bringing the Old and New Testaments together and I considered it a privilege to share in it.

      Thank you for sharing your experience.  God bless.

    • PaulB says:

      11:06am | 09/01/11

      marley I’ll agree with you when Mr Goldberg goes to a Mosque.

    • True Believer says:

      12:51pm | 09/01/11

      @PaulB:

      When was the last time you went to a mosque?  For that matter how often do you visit a Christian church, a Jewish synagogue, a Hindu Temple, a Buddhist monastery???

      Or does you life just consist of making cheap shots like that one?  Must be empty.

    • marley says:

      01:24pm | 09/01/11

      @PaubB - communion is a start, don’t you think?

    • Grow up says:

      07:08am | 08/01/11

      I’m an athiest, but I understand that it would have been a very difficult thing for you to ‘submit’ to the rituals of another faith. Congratulations on having done so, it is a shame that more people can not do what you have done.

      Too many people use religion as a way of drawing a line in the sand, justifying terrible acts because ‘they’re not like us, those heathen worshippers of X’. If more people could take a day out of their lives to experience the rituals of another faith, I do believe there would be less conflict in the world.

    • Tony of Poorakistan says:

      09:30am | 10/01/11

      I could possibly do similar for a friend, partiucularly under those circumstances, but it wouldn’t occur to me to partake in a foreign religious ritual normally. 
      I even avoid halal food, because the idea of some pagan chanting his arcane orison over what I eat is very off-putting. Bit like me getting the parish priest to sprinkle their felafel and hummus with holy water.

    • Hokus Pokus says:

      07:52am | 08/01/11

      Let us pray for all the poor souls who continue to have the religious gene and believe in the invisible man.  Some of them are in high places and prevent Ethics being taught in state schools as well as RI. Amen.

    • True Believer says:

      11:47am | 08/01/11

      @Hokus Pokus

      What a pathetic and negative response to a beautiful experience shared with us.

      As a matter of interest who are you going to pray to about the non-existent gene you have dreamed up??

    • Steph says:

      12:14pm | 08/01/11

      “Let us pray for all the poor souls who continue to have the religious gene and believe in the invisible man.”

      Sounds like an oxymoron there. “God doesn’t exist! Use the brain God gave you, why dont you?”

    • Chris L says:

      12:59pm | 08/01/11

      That’s not what this article is about and, as a fellow atheist, I do think your comment was in poor sport. As much as I agree with your sense of doubt I don’t think religion is necessarily a bad thing, just some religious people and their attempts to influence others to be like them.

    • pC says:

      10:56pm | 08/01/11

      as a ‘person of religion’ as we are commonly referred to, I share your dismay at the abuse of power that people commit in the name of religion.

      the saddest thing is, as most well know, their actions are grossly hypocritical and go against the very thing they so vehemently espouse. it’s most often these people that have warped their theology into ideas they wish existed, but don’t, and continue to claim ‘religion’ when its not.

    • stephen says:

      05:08pm | 09/01/11

      Kids can’t add 2 and 7, then divide by 1 and a half.
      How will you introduce them to concepts… I mean any concept ?
      Their minds are attuned to not thinking, but using their fingers to get a result, i.e. the computer.
      So is it any wonder that God - any God - is beyond their comprehension.

    • cRook says:

      08:26am | 08/01/11

      Good on you for knowing what you believe in, but good on you more for embracing what others believe in.

    • Tiberius says:

      08:52am | 08/01/11

      The Greeks?

      It was the Romans and emperor Titus that sacked Jerusalem 2000 years ago.

      Surely a devout Jew would know this,

    • Bernie says:

      01:19pm | 08/01/11

      Syrian-Greeks Tiberius. Surely someone named Tiberius would know this.

    • Elissa says:

      01:22pm | 08/01/11

      The revolt of the Maccabees took place more than 2 centuries earlier than the Roman sacking of Jerusalem (166 BCE, as compared to 70AD, roughly). The events referenced by the Hannukah celebrations were the overthrow of a Hellenisation of Jewish life, both on an everyday and personal level and on at the level of community. Places of worship were given over to Greek gods, and sacrifices not in keeping with Jewish religious practice were made at these temples, inflaming local discontent.

      The sacking of Jerusalem was a completely different experience, and resulted in a diaspora, not a Jewish victory. There is no good reason for those vanquished would celebrate the destruction of their temple, and one doesn’t need to be a devout anything to realise this!!

      The Maccabean revolt was a success story in Jewish history, the sacking of Jerusalem not so much.

    • Wayne Fehlhaber says:

      09:16am | 08/01/11

      I have read many articles in Punch . This particular article by Dan Goldberg has a clear message . There is but one God , though we see Him through differrent eyes.
      The rites and rituals are not a barrier if one choses to go to a church of a diferrent religion . At least that is what i have found on the occasions i have ventured into a a church that is not of my own religion.

      Dan’s quotation of Benjamin Disraeli is a message in itself and any who read the quote can take that message aboard to their own advantage in life.

      All human beings should be far more tolerant of one another’s way of worship even to the point of integration into other religious communities to share in and learn the meanings of the rites and rituals which are mostly a reflection of what we all basically believe .

      No doubt Dan would have felt the same inner peace by attending another’s religious service as he would have from his local Jewish Synagogue.

      A brilliant article Dan.

    • Jenni says:

      09:45am | 08/01/11

      Good on you for breaking through your personal boundaries for a moment of exploration into somebody else’s world. If more people were willing to accept other people’s faith without feeling that their own is somehow threatened, the world would be a much better place.

    • Joan says:

      10:07am | 08/01/11

      Hey! If a vaccine for stupidity mentioned in another article is developed . - you should be first in the cue…. you need it.

    • marley says:

      09:26pm | 08/01/11

      Actually, I think you’ll be ahead of him.  Narrow mindedness is not a sign of intelligence.

    • Joan says:

      01:19pm | 09/01/11

      what narrow mindedness?  I can go to a football /cricket match as an observer and still patricipate/support but not be a player . especially when I don’t know the rules… the same with religion . Dan and friend sound like two teenage kids, not grown adult males men when it comes to respecting their own and other religion.

    • Ollie says:

      10:36am | 08/01/11

      Deb, please do us the courtesy of punctuating your comments so we can read them easily.  A few capital letters, spaces etc wouldn’t go astray.  It’s called commucating.

    • deb says:

      06:08am | 09/01/11

      So sorry,Ollie. guess my lack of churching didnt improve my manners.But is this better Teacher?

    • Steph says:

      12:00pm | 09/01/11

      No, Deb, no. Capital letters and all. Spaces after full stops.  Gods, woman, L2Type.

    • Gee Sus says:

      11:05am | 08/01/11

      Articles such as this still amaze me: as i can not understand why intelligent people do not,or can not , rise above their childhood brainwashing!!

    • True Believer says:

      11:53am | 08/01/11

      @Joan

      Don’t look now but your rudeness is showing. Thank God I am no longer in the ranks of the unbelievers if this is the sort of person represents even some of them.

      @Geesus

      See my comments above - they apply equally to you.

      Rude and ignorant.

    • Vicki PS says:

      02:16pm | 08/01/11

      Perhaps because they are intelligent and astute enough to know the difference between making a choice and being brainwashed.  If you can’t understand, Gee Sus, the failure is yours.

    • Paul says:

      06:21pm | 08/01/11

      And why are you so judgemental about people’s personal beliefs in something beyond the material world? Do you know all there is to know about life, the universe and everything? Anyone would think you were brainwashed in your childhood ...

    • True Believer says:

      12:57pm | 09/01/11

      @PaulB

      Your parents atheists? Did they brainwash you? What is your reason for being an atheist? Is it just more trendy among your peers?

      Most Christians in my experience have come to know Jesus as adults after, as I did, finding atheism is futile.

    • eddie says:

      09:25am | 11/01/11

      @ true believer,  most athiests I know came to their senses later in life after realising that the sky daddy they had forced down their throats as kids was no more real than Santa or the tooth fairy. Most born agains I know have simply adopted a deep delusion to cover either personal inadequacy or more often some sort of sexual deviation with which they are not comfortable.

    • True Believer says:

      06:46pm | 13/01/11

      @Eddie

      From your fairly immature and offensive comments I suspect you have not lived long enough to meet as many people who know Jesus as I have. smile

      Perhaps as you mature you will meet a greater range of people and expand your rather narrow, judgmental views.

    • Steph says:

      11:21am | 08/01/11

      Good article smile Good to hear people getting along no matter their religion. I’m a Christian and was asked to read from the book of Mormon one day at a friends house when I was 15… I didn’t ponder the difference in partaking of different religious habits (as in, religions that weren’t mine) until much later, but in retrospect it’s very good to have been able to get an insight into Mormonism, even if all it did was strengthen my own beliefs.

    • stephen says:

      11:51am | 08/01/11

      I remember a few years ago living in Sydney when at a bus-stop a young man approached me and ask for directions. He was an Israeli and had just completed his 3 year stint in the military. Anyway, we boarded a bus together and he saw I was reading a book by Norman Finkelstein, who often writes about the Palestine/Israel problem. My visitor knew of him, and we spoke for about an hour about this conundrum. (I think we both missed our stops.) But out of it all, I remember two things : he gave me a quote - verbally - and I’ve since found it in a book by James R. Flynn.
        ‘If someone is 60% right, it’s wonderful, it’s great luck and let him thank God. But ... whoever says he is 100% right is a fanatic, a thug, and the worst kind of rascal. (An old Jew of Galacia).
      I like that.
      The other thing was thing : my friend (and I do wish I would get names, sometimes), said this, after our conversation turned to God,
      The fact that there are so many Gods in the world, well, this is more evidence that there IS a God, not less.
      I hadn’t thought of it that way ;  actually, rather, I supposed the opposite.

      I have since wondered what is actually taught in the Israeli Military.

    • PaulB says:

      11:13am | 09/01/11

      “The fact that there are so many Gods in the world, well, this is more evidence that there IS a God, not less.”

      It’s evidence that humans all over the world have active imaginations, but its not evidence of a God (or Gods).

    • Elphaba says:

      12:14pm | 08/01/11

      Great story on a reminder that all religions grow from the same tree - regardless of how much some practitioners would have you think.  I agree, it’s fascinating to witness all the various rituals of people of different faiths.  I love the fact I have friends of all different denominations, so that I get a glimpse into their world.

    • Mr Pod says:

      12:43pm | 08/01/11

      When I was eleven, to get on a week long canoe trip i had to pretend to be catholic.  Half way through the trip there was an impromptu communion which I said I had been through.  Nervously I listened very carefully and copied how the lad before me responded.  At the tender age of eleven I was amazed at such silliness in grown ups but understood they had to submit otherwise they wouldn’t be able to go canoeing either.

    • Likes Joining Dots says:

      02:23pm | 10/01/11

      Mr Pod, I had to chuckle at your well staged reminiscing of an 11 year old .

      So you are more canoeist than atheist? (yet another ‘ist’ for the library).

    • kerrie o'rourke says:

      02:05pm | 08/01/11

      get rid of Jews and Americans out of the middle east and Muslim countries now as soon as possible. thats the 2011 challenge .
      america is a sick third world superpower banana republic

    • kerrie o'rourke says:

      02:14pm | 08/01/11

      Jesus is a Jew?Thank God for that?  so what? The poor democratic socialist Christian Jesus bloke have to be some nationality, some sex, some religion, some race, and some bloke somewhere on earth.
      Jesus loved public speaking, magic tricks, philosophy, fishermen, apostles, and Israel.
      Jesus would not like modern Christians repeating the efforts of the middle ages crusaders in the middle east as the third world superpower banana republic secular USA is doing. USA is not the Utopia Of Saudi Arabia just yet,as its currently the united snowfields of Antarctica this holy winter..

    • TCB 24 X 7 says:

      02:41am | 09/01/11

      Well He’s given you something,
      The year in which you live in   2011 A.D.

    • Howard Hunt O'Rourke says:

      01:50pm | 09/01/11

      why does dead wood, dead beats and dead shits ,worthy only of the grave and cremation, continue to spout praise for the United States?
      Why ? Because these Liberal Party centurions left school in sixth grade and believe all the mass media they consume.
      We should bugger off USA as soon as possible. USA will be 15 trillion dollars in debt by 2015 due to its wars.
      Australia doesn’t need what Liberal Voters want.
      Australians do not need a third world superpower banana republic
      They are no friends of USA .There are only exploited countries, grave warmers!

    • kerrie o'rourke says:

      02:23pm | 08/01/11

      communion? Its the best soup kitchen meal there is.it costs nothing.

    • marley says:

      06:49pm | 08/01/11

      Could you do us all a favour, and learn to write literate English? Please? Punctuation (correct use of apostrophes, commas and question marks) would be a good start.  Then you could work on capitalization.  Then perhaps you could consider verb tenses.  Then possibly, although I realize this is a stretch, perhaps you could try subject-verb agreement.

      Once you’ve done that, you might consider the skill of building an argument based on evidence, rather than insult.  It’s extremely easy to call the US a “banana republic” - unless, of course, you actually know what the term banana republic means.

    • True Believer says:

      12:45pm | 09/01/11

      @Marley

      Good one Marley it shows the author up as one who spends more time texting apparently than thinking deeply.

      @kerrie o’rourke:

      Well in your cynicism you do not know how close you are to the Truth.

      A soup kitchen nourishes the flesh, communion is nourishment for the soul.

    • Howard Hunt O'Rourke says:

      01:54pm | 09/01/11

      So Jews eat Communion.
      I thought it was made of pork??
      Nobody wants communion except Jews as it tastes crook.
      It can poison grammar teachers, Liberal Voters and older Australians waiting for cremation and grave warming.

    • stephen says:

      05:15pm | 09/01/11

      You keep changing your name Dear and I’ll stop you eating the leaves.

    • Alex says:

      04:42pm | 08/01/11

      Great article. I really like the overall sentiment.

      I do object to the notion that ‘Judaism is not complete without Christianity’. The original split that led to Christianity was whether to accept Jesus as the Messiah (among other details). To say that Judaism is not complete without Christianity is to say that Judaism is an incomplete version of Christianity. That position is not too different from that of the Jerusalem Church 2000 years ago.

      I might be misreading or misunderstanding the Disraeli quote though.

    • stephen says:

      07:48pm | 08/01/11

      Disraeli, I suspect, wanted a Jew as a Messiah, but didn’t know how to go about it.
      That is a problem, I know.
      And if you do complete something, neccesarily, that does not mean a ‘replacement’.
      Go back to your maths, Alex.

    • Alex says:

      11:01am | 09/01/11

      @Stephen

      Disraeli had a Jew as a Messiah - Jesus.

      In this case it does in fact evoke ‘replacement’ as in ‘replacement theology’ which is ’ a Christian interpretation of New Testament claims, viewing God’s relationship with Christians as being either the “replacement” or “fulfillment” or “completion” of the promise made to the Jews…’

      I don’t get the maths comment, Stephen. I’ll bet $10 on the fact that you did not attend university

    • stephen says:

      01:36pm | 09/01/11

      Been to eight of’em and taught at two, and lost me virginity and me hair at the last one.
      (Whew, and I thought I was gonna die an un-happy man, too)

    • Steph says:

      07:47pm | 09/01/11

      Stephen, you’re telling me you have a doctorate? That’s the only way any Australian university is going to let you lecture there. Your grammar suggests you haven’t. Not convincing me in the least. If they gave you a doctorate after writing your thesis with nonsense like that, then the university in question should really be shut down.

    • stephen says:

      10:11pm | 09/01/11

      Yer right Steph, I don’t have a DTE. But you sound like you do.
      I’m so smart, they employed me without one.
      I had to finish my Second Symphony to do so, though.
      PHD’s are dumb - mostly - but they sure do look good in their tweeds, corduroys, and and their gin just resting right at the waistline, precisely.
      And looking vaguely at the horizon, aka, the bar.

    • stephen says:

      11:14pm | 09/01/11

      Moderator,
      Please ignore my last comment, though true, I don’t wish to reveal anything. No-one on bloggs should know that stuff.

    • The Other Phil says:

      05:16pm | 08/01/11

      It’s quite good to see that those that would classify themselves as agnostic or atheist are tolerant of people having a belief which is different to theirs.

    • Yid says:

      05:17pm | 08/01/11

      Mazel Tov my friend. Shame all the atheists on here just couldn’t keep their mouths shut :/

      At the end of the day, all religions are different routes to the same destination - Vive la difference.

      Shalom smile

    • VickiPS says:

      07:55pm | 08/01/11

      That’s a bit presumptuous, Yid.  Not all atheists feel the need to advertise their beliefs or, more to the point, attack others.  Some of us are actually intensely interested in religion.

      Shalom, shalom B^)

    • Dave C says:

      07:05pm | 08/01/11

      I suppose I would call myself an agnostic. There is a higher being out there I just dont know how I know who he/she/it is?

      But that was a beautiful article, its good that people can have religious tolerance. I think its wonderful that two friends can go to each others place of worship and learn from each other and have their friendship grow.

      As for kerrie o’rourke having a go at the great satan the usa calling it a ”  sick third world superpower banana republic” Where did that piece of ignorant bile come from? At least in the usa there is tolerance for other religions other than the dominant protestant christian religion.  I would prefer to live there than say Iran where there is no religion except fundamentalist Islam or say North Korea where you cant practice any religion. But you can tell any of that to the professional athiest USA hating zealots can you.

    • PaulB says:

      11:20am | 09/01/11

      So many here seem sentimental for an America that ceased to exist many years back.  That America you all look to as some kind of beacon became terminally ill in the 90s, and was finally killed off during the Bush administration, leaving Obama wandering aimlessly in the wreckage like the puppet he is.  Kerrie is spot-on, its the rest of you who are still living in the Reagan glory days.  Things have changed drastically since then.  Maybe you should put down your mainstream newspapers and pick up your computer mice instead?

    • Ken says:

      11:28am | 09/01/11

      Tolerance for other religions in the US?  Maybe, except perhaps if you’re Musim - not much tolerance for people’s civil rights or freedom though. They celebrated the death of habeus corpus under the brutal and bloodthirsty Bush Jnr regime. They sure have a high tolerance for everything Jewish though - after all, the Jews own and run the USA.

    • Dave C says:

      01:11pm | 09/01/11

      Look at what I wrote Paul B and Ken. I never said the USA was perfect, far from it but its not a “sick third world superpower banana republic”.

      If your a muslim in the USA yes alot of people dont like you or your religion. I would say at least the relatives and friends of the 3000 people were killed in 11th Sept for a start. Thats because people who did it , did it in the name of Islam. But if you are muslim you are allowed to freely worship in the USA. Mosques are not banned (maybe not allowed in some places due to planning laws) but they are not banned altogether.

      If however your a muslim (or any other religion) person that plans to use violence and terror in the name of that religion then you will be locked up but you will get your day in court.

      To say that “They celebrated the death of habeus corpus under the brutal and bloodthirsty Bush Jnr regime” This is another example of over exaggerated USA hating bile. The question must be asked when and where was the “celebration” is there a national holiday???? All the USA Govt is trying to do is protect its citizens who dont engage in terrorist activities from dieing from terrorist attacks which are mostly carried out by militant Islamic terrorists.  Now if your talking about GB near Cuba where Hicks was held, those were prisoners of war, they were captured overseas (therefore not arrested in the USA and not subject to any states jurisdiction) and bought back to face military trials. Military trials have different rules and even then Hicks had a taxpayer funded lawyer appointed to him.

      On the other If your a christian in Iran or Afghanistan (in the taliban days) you would be locked up or stoned to death. Same with Saudia Arabia (which I admit the USA have too close a relationship with) and many other Muslim dictatorships. I do read many internet sites as well as mainstream newspapers and many of those sites are as questionable in terms of accuracy as anything written by the “evil” Fox network which most USA haters also hate.

      As for the Jews running the USA Jews mainly live in Hollywood and NYC which are the most Liberal parts of the country. Yes they have money but they have less influence than Christians.

    • Jon says:

      07:38pm | 08/01/11

      From my reading the Hellenistic period was so very popular amongst Jews of that period that they had almost became Greek. The Hellenistic period ended 146 BC with the Romans taking over. The Romans destroyed Jerusalem and its Temple in 70 CE under Titus.

      The statement “It’s anathema to my religion.” is ridiculous as all religious traditions and culture are derived from older ones compacted to form new religions or tradition usually for political purposes or as a result of conquest. This be can tracked via linguistics where the evident of the journey of ideas is from words e.g. some Latin words had origins from the Hindu. Judaism borrowed many ideas from Zoroastrianism and the much older Egyptians Gods. Christianity borrowed ideas of Judaism and much from the so-called Roman paganism, Islam from Judaism, Christianity and a local pagan moon god. Many of the good bits were borrowed from Plato, Aristotle and earlier Greek philosophers to make these religions more logical and rational.

      Anathemas need not exist as all these traditions can be celebrated if they hold humanistic quality that all humanity can recognise and then they belong to all.

    • True Believer says:

      01:14pm | 09/01/11

      @Jon:

      I am sure you are very learned in things regarding human history albeit you have perhaps cultivated to fit your personal bias.

      Sadly you are missing the best part, but for that you would need to look further than history books and seek Jesus who alone can open your spiritual eyes to what life is really all about.  Human intelligence is a marvelous gift of God,  but it the gift to choose spiritual life over spiritual death through Jesus is immeasurable. I hope you take it up one day.

      I wasted many years as an unbeliever, thinking as you apparently do that I knew it all.  I found out I didn’t - thank God for His Grace in accepting me.  Now I no longer have to “know it all” for that is his province. There is no wisdom, love, peace or joy that can come anywhere near what He gives when we put aside our pride and come to Him.

    • Jon says:

      10:14am | 10/01/11

      @True Believer, I do respect Jesus for many of the humanistic ideas that can be abstracted from the dogma of the religion attributed to him. The value of Jesus is not whether he was the Sun of God, or that he even existed at all, it is the universal ethics of his ideas. However these universal ethics exist in religions and philosophies that pre-date Judaism, Christianity and Islam.

      “I know that I know nothing”. Greek philosopher Socrates. When you accept what Socrates says your quest for knowledge will remain until your final days. Convenient answers to the unknown by the religious wont cut it anymore.  Pax in terra.

    • True Believer says:

      09:04pm | 10/01/11

      @Jon:

      Thank you for your response. Jesus is the Son not the “sun” of God as you have put it.

      He was, is and will forever be very much more than “humanistic.”

      I cannot accept what Socrates said about what he thought I, you, we should believe - he was a learned man, but just that, a man.  Jesus is, was and will forever be so much more. Beyond the ken of you or Socrates.

      I am not interested in religion. In the main that is man-made - I know Jesus - that you cannot accept that says more about where you stand in the affairs knowing life to the full than it does about Jesus, or me.

      But human pride being what it is, you will deny that which supercedes the limits of your human understanding and education. I do not denigrate your education, I am just telling you - there is more. Keep looking. I wish you well. smile

    • iansand says:

      02:47am | 09/01/11

      It’s the same god.  For reasons best known to its psychoanalyst, that god has told different people to worship it in different ways.  Does that tell you something about the true source of this thing we call religion?

    • Hokus Pokus says:

      09:00am | 09/01/11

      Steve - It was a comedic play on words - don’t believers have a sense of humour!  I think that’s what turned me off the invisible an when I went to a convent school as well as all that burning in hell and stories of that awful Abraham who was happy enough to kill his son!

    • Anna says:

      11:11am | 09/01/11

      I hope that some readers will remember this story when next in an unfamiliar holy place for a wedding or other ceremony. I’m a pretty ardent atheist, but when friends of mine marry in church, I sing the hymns as well as my dubious singing voice will allow. It saddens me when others are stiff-jawed and silent in opposition to the lyrics.

    • gragra says:

      12:07pm | 09/01/11

      Don’t you love it when the pedantics show their ignorance criticising someone’s use of the language and end their rant by referring to “commucating”? And then another ‘perfect person’ speaks of punctuation faults but fails to punctuate the parenthesis!
      I think it was Thurber who foreworded one of his hilarious books, ( something ..of the Gods i think)  with ” All the Gods are dead. They all died laughing when one of them stood and said, “There are no other Gods but me!”.
      All of the invented gods, like Santa and the boogie-man, were put in place as tools of domination. Children grow up and learn that Santa is a furphy, as is the boogie -man. Unfortunately some people never grow up. Hence, organised, (?), religion.

    • iansand says:

      02:03pm | 09/01/11

      A pedant uses “foreworded”.  To continue the Algonquin reference, I fwowed up.

    • DocBud says:

      02:45pm | 09/01/11

      That would be “pedants”.

    • Adam Diver says:

      12:49pm | 09/01/11

      “But I wanted to bow out. I knew intrinsically this was not a place for a Jew, let alone one who can trace his lineage back to a rabbi in Europe centuries ago”

      Ignorance breeds fear, anyone with a vague understanding of christianity would know that its premise is based upon Jesus, one of inclusion not exclusion. If it was however the fear of reprisal in Judaism that was the concern, I suggest shopping around for another religion that isn’t so pathetic.

      I am sure eating a symbolic piece of bread was a terribly difficult experience and celebrating a secular christmas (tree) a harrowing experience for your children, but I am glad that you were able to overcome such difficulties for close friends and family and display some humanity, its really not that hard.

    • True Believer says:

      01:22pm | 09/01/11

      @gragra:

      How wrong you are in your denial of God - when you mature I hope you will learn to listen not spout nonsense which appears to come from ignorance.  If you listen hard enough you will know as I do that the Lord is very much alive.  Reach out to Jesus with a repentant heart and He will answer you.
      He says, “I stand at the door and knock…...........”

      There is so much more you are currently missing out on.

    • Likes Joining Dots says:

      01:51pm | 09/01/11

      An open question.

      Can an atheist participate/pretend in the various religious ceremonies (eg like taking communion, attending a mosque or the Hajj) without causing personal offence?

      I’m not ‘having a go’ mind you - just curious where the boundaries are (if any).

    • marley says:

      07:01pm | 09/01/11

      Interesting question.  And I don’t know the answer.

      I do know that all the major Christian denominations welcome anyone to their services.  Hindus and Sikhs and Muslims - I simply don’t know.  Some Muslim sects are quite closed, and Hindus tend to be born, not converted.  Buddhists are pretty open, I believe.

      Communion, which is a step beyond just attending the service,  used to be restricted in the Catholic and Anglican churches to those who had been “confirmed” - but I can say for certain that the Anglicans are much more welcoming these days, and if Dan’s story is an example, so too are the Catholics.  Not sure about the other Christian churches, but if two of the most conservative are starting to be more encompassing, the rest are probably already there.

      I guess I would say, if an atheist wants to attend a service, he should feel free - and he would certainly be able, at least in the Anglican church, to take communion - but that is maybe a step beyond an atheist’s own personal ethical boundaries.

      And I would definitely think that going on the Hadj would be improper for anyone not a true Muslim.

    • Steph says:

      07:59pm | 09/01/11

      I think many athiests do, at places like Catholic schools (when I went to a catholic girls school a fair few told me they pretended to be catholic and signed the religious form upon enrollment just for the education the school seemed to give). For most, they don’t understand the ritual in question anyway and it’s hard to feel offence at something you don’t know about.

      Some religions won’t allow anyone that’s not a member of the congregation or proven to be part of the denomination (by way of a confession of faith certificate for instance) do any of the activities/rituals anyway - and some take it further than that, not allowing children to partake of Communion because, apparently, they’re not fully understanding of it and until they confess to the faith and are admitted to the Church they will be barred from any church activities (like communion). It depends on the denomination of said religion (in this case I’m talking Christianity), but often that’s the case. The more accepting churches (like the Methodists, the Uniting, etc) will allow anyone to join in - but the stricter ones (like the Reformed and, I think, the Baptists - though I’d prefer a Baptist to confirm that) won’t let you.

    • Gonzo says:

      08:15pm | 09/01/11

      I can answer you only regarding Communion.

      No, you must not receive Holy Communion unless you have been prepared for it (Baptism, Reconciliation, First Communion).

      The preparation for these Sacraments would help you understand why. I can’t explain it in a comment.

      The need for reconciliation (confession) is because you are receiving God Himself. Now, He will nourish your soul, and for that your soul must be clean in order to receive Him. (Imagine your mum coming to give you a hug in a clean white garment and you hugging her back with your hands all filthy. Now here is Someone greater than your mum).

      So, you can participate in the ceremony; when it is the time for Communion you can approach the Priest with your arms crossed and he will give you a blessing. You can enter the confessionary and talk to the Priest. However, you must not receive Holy Communion unless (read above). This applies also to Orthodox Churches.
      Sorry I can’t answer you about Mosque or Hajj. (et cetera).

      For those comments following this one, trying to break it down: I am not discussing the existence of God nor wether it is Him in the Holy Communion, for I know it is so and that is not the topic I am answering about. The comment is a straight answer to the question. If you don’t believe it is God who is there, then why should you bother going to receive Him.

    • Likes Joining Dots says:

      08:29am | 10/01/11

      Thanks for the considered responses. I had suspected there would be such a difference between the Christian denominations, but one thing in common, communion seems to be taking it one step too far. Performing the Hajj also appears totally out of bounds.

      The question arose when I passed a group that the media have called a religious cult and was wondering what goes on and how accommodating they might be if I turned up out of curiosity to see what constitutes ‘cultish’ behaviour.

      On a more aesthetic level, I have read comments that the Quran read in arabic is poetic and beautiful to hear (it’s not something I really wanted to experience via youtube) but I’m not likely to roll up to my local mosque -  at least not without an invite.

      Stephen and Gonzo made similar points. If you don’t believe why would you bother or the watching tennis while preferring cricket analogy. Whilst I may not be religious, I think it is still possible to have an interest in religion.

    • marley says:

      08:58am | 10/01/11

      @Gonzo - just on the point of Communion, I was (sort of) raised in the Anglican Church but never confirmed, so never considered myself eligible to take Communion (though I do fully understand its meaning).

      However, I’ve been in a few different Anglican churches in the last few years where the minister has specifically invited everyone, including those not confirmed, to participate.  It was, I must say, a bit of a surprise (I hadn’t been in an Anglican Church in years, due to living abroad). 

      So, while I would have agreed with your statements five years ago, now, I think there’s more variation out there than perhaps you’re aware of (at least amongst non-Catholic denominations).

    • Clara says:

      11:11am | 10/01/11

      In fact, yes - many Catholics would feel uncomfortable about this, as would the priest had he known the writer was neither baptised nor a believer. Catholics believe in the true presence of Christ in the Eucharist and ask that you not receive Communion unless you share that belief (it’s not, in fact, about being a Protestant or anything else)
      It would have been more appropriate in this situation to have joined the communion line and at front, crossed hands across the chest and asked for a blessing instead. That’s the accepted convention for people of goodwill who are at Mass with family or friends but don’t share the belief in the real presence of Christ, and also the appropriate action for children who have not yet received their First Communion. Visitors are always welcome, and in our church are specifically greeted by the priest at the beginning of Mass . But unlike other Christian denominations, Communion is more than an act of commemoration and community for Catholics.
      I take everyone’s point in celebrating the writer’s willingness to participate in his friend’s religious observance, and the spirit in which it was done, but no, it’s not generally an acceptable thing to receive Communion in a Catholic church if you are not a believer.

    • gonzo says:

      03:03pm | 10/01/11

      @marley
      Yes marley, I was speaking about the Catholic Church. I don’t have much knowledge about the Anglican Church so it’s interesting to hear your points. In the Catholic Church people receive the Sacrament of the First Communion, and then we are able to receive thereafter. We also have the Sacrament of Confirmation, but being able to receive the Holy Eucharist does not depend on it.
      “the Anglicans are much more welcoming these days, and if Dan’s story is an example, so too are the Catholics.” The story probably is true (unfortunately - see Clara’s comment below which is pretty good) but the thing is that the author did not go to receive Communion after having let know his status to the Priest. Nor was he invited by the Priest to go, he was invited by his friend whom, I feel confident enough to tell you that he has very little formation and knowledge of his faith and of what he is doing.

    • stephen says:

      06:07pm | 09/01/11

      That’s very open. And I reckon it’s like going to the tennis when you really like the Cricket.
      Ambiguity is not the same as hypocrisy.
      You can have the former attitude (literary theorists, please take note) but only from behaviour, or more importantly, action, can one be the latter.
      In other words, anyone in the Old Testament would excuse you.

    • gragra says:

      10:10pm | 09/01/11

      Thanks Docbud. Well corrected. The other critic, a fool who seems to think that some benevolent being is watching over the innocent starving children of the world, really needs help.  How do we accept the fact that there is a specific “chosen people”? Why do some people accept the practice of eating the body of a human being and drinking his blood, (even symbolically), is something that we should teach our children.  I defy any of these sad, weak, so-called ‘believers’  in an organisation, well known to be the most common source of child molestation, genocide, and human bondage, to justify the existence of their body of belief.  Don’t tell me to have faith in the most horrible, villainous, rapacious, evil collection of warmongering, sadistic dictators, (grounded in threats of damnation), that this planet has ever known. And don’t ask me to extend my senses to accept the nonsense that you are covering your bets. We shouldn’t be that naive. You are. But not me or those who think.  You have my sympathy for your brainwashing.

    • marley says:

      12:21pm | 10/01/11

      I can’t tell from your diatribe whether you’re criticising the Catholic Church, all Christian Churches, or all religions.  Presumably, it’s the last, because logically, if there is no god, then all religions must be equally false.  Believers in any religion must then be, by your definition, victims (or perpetrators) of brain washing.

      I’m just wondering though, how you equate Quakerism or Jainism, to name but two, with “the most horrible, villainous, rapacious, evil collection of warmongering, sadistic dictators…the planet has ever known”  or why you exclude from that group such noted non-believers as Stalin and Mao who surely would rank rather highly in the pantheon of sadistic dictators.

      And I wonder why you think that all religions involve either a god (or gods) or the concept of damnation.  Many do not.

    • gragra says:

      10:51pm | 09/01/11

      Poor Wayne Fehlhaber. Sadly bereft of any conviction he adopts what he thinks is the popular view. Bit like John Howard really. How can any intelligent person espouse a belief based on wickedness, slavery, and fear. Apparently he can. It is of course no longer the’popular view’. People are beginning to realise that dominence through fear is not acceptable. Nor are satanic rites, paganism, or child sacrifices. Wayne simply shows his childish acceptance of what he has been fed. It’s sad really that a bloke can’t think for himself. But hey, what do you expect from someone who still believes in his later years that a body dead for three days can get it all together again.  And please don’t tell me that I don’t understand. Like other
      realists I assure you that I don’t understand people like you.

    • True Believer says:

      07:27am | 10/01/11

      @gragra:

      Wow what vitriol against Christianity - now that is what I call ramming your beliefs (or lack of them) down the throats of others.

      Such cynicism, such hatred - I guess you are a fundamentalist atheist.

      Whatever, you are you are missing the mark by a million miles, but then you know it all (supposedly) so puffed up with your own self-righteousness how could anyone try to share the Truth with you?

      I hope one day you will come to realise where all your nastiness emanates from and then realise God is love.  If you do not believe in God then you are also blind to the Adversary who is after your soul.  Keep going like you are and you make an easy target for him.

    • Rpmli065 says:

      12:02pm | 10/01/11

      When you go to receive communion in a Catholic church, the PRIEST says “Body of Christ” and you answer with “Amen” and then he gives you the wafer.  Not the other way around.  Also, only Catholics who are prepared for communion are allowed to have it i.e. be a confirmed Catholic and having confessed your sins.  People of other denominations, or children who have not yet received the sacrament of fist holy communion, can join the queue for a blessing.

    • acinom says:

      01:09pm | 10/01/11

      Dan, I applaud you for opening your mind and embracing your friends belief, for friendships sake.

      I too had a similar experience this Christmas. Having been brought up as an athiest, I have since accepted religion for what it is, and proudly declare myself an agnostic.

      A very good friend of mine is Christian, and we decided to share Christmas eve together for the second year in a row. A tradition of her immediate family is to gather at a local church for midnight mass, and I, for the second time, chose to join them.

      The priest (not sure if that is still the correct term, as the priest was a woman) was warm, bubbly and engaged the congregation with gusto. Overall it was a beautiful ceremony, and despite my non-commital, I very much enjoyed it.

      The only issue was communion. My friend encouraged me to join her in line and receive communion, however I declined as I felt as though I would be disrespecting the church’s belief, as I had not been baptised.

      After reading your article above, I realise now that perhaps it was disrespectful for me NOT to have participated. The Christian church embraces people from all walks of life, and while I am not a believer in their religion, I was there to share in their celebration of Jesus’ birth. So why discriminate over one part?

      For those who have commented above and critcised Dan’s actions, these are the kind of closed minded religious beliefs that start wars the world over. After all, there is only one God, isn’t there?

    • Em says:

      01:38pm | 10/01/11

      What a wonderfull thing to experience! I am an athiest and never grew up with religion in my home. This year I went to the church (a couple of times) of a few friends just to experience something new. I felt a lovely sense of community and acceptance and lernt new things about life. I am still very much an athiest after going but it was a fun experience (minus the singing about jesus!) I also had a temping job at a synagogue once and I also had a similar experience there too. I think more people need to be a little more open minded about other peoples beliefs.

    • Colin says:

      02:05pm | 10/01/11

      Mr Goldberg, both you and your Irish friend seem to have a shallow understanding of Catholic beliefs. In your case that’s okay one wouldn’t expect a Jew to understand, but for your friend… he might want to flick through the “Catechism of the Catholic Church” before he dishes out more incorrect advice.

      Also I’ve never heard of a person receiving Holy Communion saying the words “Body of Christ”. At every Mass I’ve been to the priest holds the consecrated host before the recipient declaring “The body of Christ” to which the recepient responds saying, “amen” (Yes I believe what you say).

    • Glenn says:

      11:32am | 11/01/11

      i pray for the day when people wake up and this world can actually evolve towards something real

    • al says:

      04:01pm | 11/01/11

      I was raised in a part catholic part athiest family, and still question religion today. I have since educated myself on other religions and have had friends of all major denominations. These days i consider myself agnostic, as I do have respect for beliefs and the good things belief in a higher power can do on a moral, community, and spiritual level. However i am ultimately secretly a pessimist and think belief in god in the 21st century is about as accurate as still believing in santa claus. Blind faith makes me frustrated now, more so as i grow older, and intolerance of other peoples beliefs even more so. What frustrates me the most though is the few amongst us that hide behind their organised religion as a get out of jail free card for the terrible things they have done. However that said, i have respect for those christians who live good lives and do not force their way of life on others, as they do teach us how to lead better lives.

    • Kika says:

      02:16pm | 14/01/11

      Beautiful. What a story. An example of human spirit in action, tolerance and respect. We’re all in this together. I don’t know whether you should be technically accepting communion in a Catholic church without going through the rituals, but nevertheless would a lovely story.

    • Catholic Reader says:

      10:31pm | 17/01/11

      Just wanted to add, that those who have spoken about what to do when visiting a catholic church are correct. This may be useful for anyone else who finds themselves in the authors situation, or at a Wedding/Funeral/Baptism or other celebration.
      If you have not been baptised and received the sacrement of first holy communion in the catholic church, then you can still join the line and place your arms across your chest (hands on shoulders) and receive a blessing(prayer from the priest).
      Even Catholics, who have not gone to confession since their last communion and have committed a mortal sin, will undertake this practice of receiving a blessing instead of communion. So just because one doesnt receive communion, doesn’t mean they are not Catholic and not welcome at Mass. All are welcome at Mass.
      Do remember tho, you do not have to join the line, and no one will judge you for it if you do (to receive a blessing), or do not do so.
      If in doubt, talk to the priest before Mass begins. (get there a little early, introduce yourself as a visitor/etc) and the Priest will most hopefully be pleased to meet you, and happy to explain what to do at Communion time.
      Catholics truly believe that receiving communion is receiving the body of Christ.
      Just wanted to leave a quote somebody from another christian denomination once said to a Catholic Bishop. “I would walk over broken glass every day to receive communion if I truly believed I would be receiving the Body of Christ”

    • Pharme26 says:

      03:49pm | 28/01/11

      Hello! dbaedek interesting dbaedek site!

    • Henrietta says:

      04:39pm | 09/02/11

      Totally agree with Clara’s comments.

      The wafer is not a representation of Jesus, it IS Jesus.

      Catholics believe that we need to be ‘in communion’ with Him when we receive, hence why only practicing Catholics can receive. Other Christians and those of different religious faiths (or none) are welcome to come forward and receive a blessing. They just need to cross their arms over their chests.

 

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