Have you even met an Aboriginal person?

malohi says:

07:19am | 31/05/11

One side of me wants to agree with you.
But when I think about it, and I have given it some thought recently, much stems from the remote communities.

We continue to prop up these remote communities with an extraordinary amounts of money, and we get nothing in return. The govt holds way too much white man remorse to ever say, “ok you can live remote if you want, but same rules for everyone, no work, no employment prospects, no job hunting = no welfare.)

We cannot on one hand implicitly support and encourage this remote lifestyle for reasons of guilt in the guise of cultural sensitivity, then expect same quality of life or even contribution outcomes. The gov is essintially setting many people (specifically the youth born to these communities) up to fail. Even if you had all the ambition in the world, you would be distincly disadvantaged out there.

There are many “aboriginal” problems that I think could rather be assessed as “remote communities with no prospect of work” problems.

AAAdam says:

09:03am | 31/05/11

Well said Erick and Malohi. Until we start treating aboriginals the same was as every other Australian, we cannot expect them to start acting like every other Australian. I’m personally fine with them doing their own thing, just so long as they don’t expect it to be funded by taxpayers and they don’t come crying to us when the predictable consequences of their own (in)action occurs.

Markus says:

09:21am | 31/05/11

Spot on, malohi.
If Indigenous people want to be part of the rest of Australian society, great. Move to a major town or city. State/Local governments can continue to help arrange housing, employment, and access to education for the children (all of which will be a lot cheaper when they aren’t out in the middle of nowhere).

The real reason why the majority of Australians are not engaging with Aboriginal people? We don’t want anything to do with the remote area hellholes they call home. Are we meant to feel guilty for that?

KH says:

10:43am | 31/05/11

Maybe its time to just accept that the primitive culture is just not compatible with the modern world.  20 million people are not moving out, and what was done 200 odd years ago is not going to be undone.  Maybe there are really only two options - separation - real separation - where there is a ‘state’ created only for aboriginal people, where they can do what they want, with whatever funds they can make themselves, or integration, which means being part of society, and not asking for handouts and expecting everyone to bend over backwards to accommodate their demands for recognition.  So what if they were here before white people.  Its a dead horse - stop flogging it.  I am not going to go out of my way to meet aboriginal people - they either appear in my life as I am living it, or they don’t.  Same with any other race colour or creed.  Looking for an aboriginal friend just so you can say you have one is pathetic.

Jade (the other one) says:

11:13am | 31/05/11

@Malohi and Erick. I agree completely. But lets not limit ourselves to indigenous Australians. If farmers cannot support themselves without government assistance, such as drought and flood subsidies, well, sorry, that’s tough luck.

If those living in rural and remote communities cannot survive without government subsidies and support, including boarding school subsidies and governess assistance, school of the air, and the astronomical and ridiculous cost of keeping schools with 6 or 7 students open in towns of 60 or 100 people, then tough break. Move to the city. Get another job.

I find it ridiculous to hear the carry on that remote indigenous communities are unsustainable and the indigenous should just “up and realise that” but somehow remote Australians in predominantly white communities should be supported to “remain on the land”. Why should we be paying $100,000 a year salaries to one teacher school principals so that the 10 children in the town don’t have to travel 30 minutes to go to the school in the big town nearby? Imagine if we closed all those small schools and forced parents to drive their kids, just like city people. Just in the area I used to work, the state government would be able to save around $500,000 by shutting down Eromanga State School, Thargomindah State School, Eulo State School, Wyandra State School, and Morven State School. The students could easily attend schools such as Cunnamulla State School, Quilpie State School, Charleville State School. It would however require the same commitment from parents that is often required of city parents, that is, about an hour’s round trip travel to drop their kids at school and pick them up. All of these schools have enrolments under 15 students.

fml says:

12:03pm | 31/05/11

Hear, Hear, Jade.

Farmers, the forgotten inequality.

Loxy says:

12:28pm | 31/05/11

Completely agree Malohi about reviewing the viability of the remote communities! Other problems include the fact that they foster alcohol and drug abuse and worst of all child abuse!

Erick says:

01:16pm | 31/05/11

@Jade - No comparison. Farmers produce the food we eat. Without them, we would die.

What vital resource do remote Aboriginal communities produce?

Daff Sharpley says:

02:00pm | 31/05/11

We have not surrender, nor given up, nor sign away our land our Country.
You and your family should get back on that boat and go back to where you came from instead of invading our country and now you all still what to be the old mission managers. You all living on stolen lands Country, buying, selling and reselling stolen good you all breaking your own white men’s law(dept fair trading stolen goods). for your information most Murri, Gory, Koori, Noongar, Nungari, Yolngu, Yolyol people just because your born Black your at an disadvantage before your born and framed are convicted by Whiteman’s law as a teenagers therefore can’t gets jobs under whites man law my advise take off your blind fold you thief and you brought all you poison, tobacco, alcohol sugar, small pox and all the other germs with you all by boat and plain.

James1 says:

02:07pm | 31/05/11

Actually, I disagree with you on the farmers Erick.  They are a massively subsidised and protected species in many ways - often more so than our Aborigines.  We need to do away with that protection, and make them subject to market forces.

I do not raise this as a specious argument to discredit this argument’s application to Aborigines.  As a conservative, I genuinely feel that neither the agricultural nor Aboriginal industries deserve, or indeed require, subsidisation, and furthermore that maintaining subsidies just harms these communities in the long term, and removing the subsidies and forcing them to be genuinely self sufficient is the only progressive and just path to take.
Sure, we need food to live, but there is no reason at all why we need to protect farmers from international competition through subsidies and trade protection.  All that does is allow farmers to resist positive change and entrenches unviable farming practices based on tradition.

Daff Sharpley says:

02:20pm | 31/05/11

An Arab minister for arts, culture and tourism shared his views with me and he said “we befriend our enemies, we get to known them and we execute them. We feel sorry for your people who be slaves in your own Country and sup rested to long and Genocide on your people and culture”.
What a grate saying and so true

dd says:

02:38pm | 31/05/11

I grew up in a town where there were many different races. I went to school with many race children . In those days, we were all Australian children. End of story. Then about three decades ago, we saw the rise of the Left and political correctness and racism became the most overused parts of our speech.With the Left came the divisions,the racism and along came the black armband of our history. In WA ,the reporting of two aboriginal deaths have become almost a daily section of the news, both local and ABC. It seems as if these two men will never be buried, they were but are “exhumed” on a daily base so the media can belt naughty whiteman about the head for ever and ever. Yet if whitey dies through the misdeeds of aboriginals, the news is buried immediately and is never heard of again.I fully believe that had the left never gained control of aboriginal affairs, the aboriginals would have integrated with the rest of the population. But they have been held back, deliberately I fear, so they can always be used as ammunition.They have a wonderful “dreaming’ ,they are very intelligent but they are far behind in education and opportunities. I blame the Left.

Rebecca says:

03:21pm | 31/05/11

I agree. As a Law student, I am all too often confronted with a potential position in the public and private sector for a job, only to find out that they are only hiring aborigines. The positions never get filled. They stay available for months, even years. And us whities are not allowed to have them because we aren’t black. These are jobs that do not need an aboriginal person anyway. A white person could do it just as well, but the potential employer wants to ‘positively’ discriminate.

Lisa H. says:

05:03pm | 31/05/11

Daff, my s-i-l was probably part of the ‘stolen generation’ in that she was identified as a half caste (Dad was a white-blonde Dutch), and fostered out to a white family in Cairns at a young age, before eventually meeting and marrying my (Anglo) brother.

She knew and visited her half-sister, who also married a white guy (teacher).

But with her mother long dead, she never went to visit any of her extended relatives back in camp, never advertised or politicised her blackness (beyond the fact of her appearance) and never followed any part of aboriginal culture (beyond applying for and receiving the handouts for my ‘aboriginal’ cousins…but that was probably at my brother’s insistence).

I guess she’s someone you would call nastily call a ‘coconut’.

I just call her an incredibly brave, intelligent and resourceful woman - a survivor, who’s added a lot to my family, and given everything to my brother. Not everybody feels like you.

ago says:

08:36pm | 31/05/11

in reply to james and jade
the next topic should be ‘have you ever met a farmer’
australias free trade policy is not matched by any other country in the world, as farmers, we compete against heavily subsidised coubtrues, that are not over governed like ourselves, australias fresh produce is controlled by two supermarket chains, and you wont us to play on fair field, in australia we are not heravily subsidised, you should do your homewrok first you ignorant fool,
as to drining kids to school in half in hour, in the city the option of subsidised public transport is available, in the city the majority of your half an hour drive is taken up in waiting in traffic, not in driving actual miles on the road, i choose to live in the country, and take what comes with, you choose to live in the city, and so in turn stop your whining, enjoy the fact that australia has some of the best produce in the world, and get you facts straight in regards to modern australian famers,

in regards to the toipc, i know plenty of blackfellas, most through working for me, some work really well, some dont, some i call my mates, some call me a c**t, we need to help the abos to learn to help theamselves, give a man a fish, teach a man to fish…

Fiona says:

11:00pm | 31/05/11

Malohi, the remote communities were destined to fail because they rounded people up like cattle and dumped them there, regardless of their tribe. Some didn’t even speak the same language. I do agree with the lack of opportunitynpart of your comment.
Daff, it’s people like you that make me shudder when an aboriginal person asks me anything remotely political, because more likely than not I’ll end up being called a racist. Part of my job involves working with aboriginal families and mostly I enjoy it, but the health worker I’m stuck with is lazy and even her manager can’t get rid of her.

Kelli says:

06:54pm | 01/06/11

I am an aboriginal woman that has work since I was 16 before and after school and finished my education and started university after finishing high school. I have applied for many jobs that state “indigenous applicants are welcome” and I have always tried to educate myself in free programs and paid for some education that have been provided when ever I could. But even after doing all this and applying countless times for employment for these positions I don’t receive a reply or email stating whether my application was even looked at. So in regards to your statement I have been left behind and still to this day keep trying and have never been given a chance what so ever.

I have always tried to educate myself to reach the standards that is required for these position and I have not been welcomed by open arms from the government or any other organization for that matter even with the licenses and education I have.

So stating that there have been countless opportunities for aboriginal people is a load of BS as I have not received a single one nor do I expect it I go to work just like everyone else and work and pay tax just like everyone else and the difference is I have worked towards my goals of getting the job I want but am yet to get the job I have been applying for over the past 2 years.

D says:

07:39am | 31/05/11

Its time to build a bridge and grow up.

Are Germany and Poland allied now? how about Germany and Israel?

Do Japan and America get along? come on by your arguement america slaughtered thousands with 2 bombs in Japan, surely there is deep seeded hate there? no?

Have i ever hurt an aboriginal? no well then they should grow up

Seanr says:

08:32am | 31/05/11

Cry me a river acotrel. If you had spent billions of dollars, decades of time, introduced racially discriminatory legislation in favour of one small (3%?) of the population, wouldn’t you be expecting them to stand on their own two feet by now.

Geoff - Brisbane says:

08:46am | 31/05/11

D - Japan started the war and would have dropped the bombs over New York and LA had it had the chance.

Anyway you are correct. How far back do we need to go acotrel? If i could prove your great grandfather the cave man ugh bashed my great grandfather ogh over the head for his cave, would I be entitled to your money? Would that mean i can quit my job and live off the Australian tax payer or your personal funds?

St. Michael says:

11:40am | 31/05/11

“If you invade somebody else’s country and kill a lot of them off, do you really expect them to contribute conscientiously to your own economic well-being? Especially when they have been marginalised for two hundred years?”

What, you mean like the English did to the Scottish roughly five hundred years ago? As in, the Scotland that does periodically grumble about secession but deems itself part of England as a nation and contributes to its well-being?

Ted says:

12:43pm | 31/05/11

Ahhh the age old cry of people with a victim mentality that don’t want to take responsibility for THEIR choices and THEIR actions. As long as they want to wear the black armband THEY condemn THEMSELVES to the situation THEY find THEMSELVES in. Why do you think the billions of dollars that flow their way and the continual discrimination against the rest of Australia in their favour has minimal effect. It is about time they are told to shape up, the gravy train will stop in say 3 years.

Barry says:

09:47am | 31/05/11

@Simmo
Yep, this is actually not a rare thing.  This is probably a reason, there is still a gap in a lot of cases.  I can name three occasions, when I have had mates punched in the face, for absolutely no reason, just walking along minding their own business.  All three involve aboriginal men.  I don’t believe this is any sort of evidence to suggest this is mainstream behaviour.  It is though an example of why some people look upon Aboriginals with suspicion.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIwYu1Zjnxo
This video is the perfect example of behavior, which causes a gap.  Sure, not all aboriginals are like this, that is certainly a given, but who else do you see acting like this in such large numbers?

fml says:

11:24am | 31/05/11

Barry,

“I don’t believe this is any sort of evidence to suggest this is mainstream behaviour.”

“but who else do you see acting like this in such large numbers?”

Never believe anything anyone says before the word, but.

Patsy says:

11:29am | 31/05/11

The white people in the park next to Revesby Centrelink, but some can obviously sfford drugs because they can sleep soundly.

Barry says:

12:42pm | 31/05/11

@fml
The discussion is about why aboriginals may be looked upon with suspicion, and what’s causing a gap.  I stated I don’t believe it’s mainstream, because I wouldn’t want to generalize all aboriginals into the same group, nor do I believe they deserve to be.  There are though negative elements in the aboriginal community, which are more prevalent than in other groups by percentage.  You only need to look a crime statistics to gauge that.  This is part of the reason the suspicion exists.  Does that mean we are justified in the suspicion? No, but it’s due to more factors than just the color of skin.  Again, though people attempt to blame the racial element, rather than accept that there are serious problems in aboriginal culture; the prevalence of which is noticed by people.  This year though we’ve seen some good examples of aboriginal leaders standing up and taking responsibility for violence, and other such things, which is fantastic.  I did grow up in Mildura, which is probably one of the biggest regional multicultural hubs in Victoria.  I had some great aboriginal friends, but also suffered a great deal of abuse from aboriginals.  I had first hand experience of being treated in a way by random strangers, which I would experience in no other place.  Sure, education and cooperation will definitely help, but the issue will not truly ever gain ground unless aboriginal leaders, and the community tackle the serious issues in their communities.  A group of 10 elders from the indigeous community will achieve loads more in closing the “gap” between aboriginals and the rest of the Australian community, than 100 white university students signing people up to petitions will ever achieve.

Denial says:

02:26pm | 31/05/11

Should of kept to yourself then you might not have got punched in the head.

James1 says:

03:35pm | 31/05/11

Denial, I don’t think such violence is ever a proportionate response to being talked to.

Denial says:

04:44pm | 31/05/11

James1, If a guy is buy himself sitting there minding his own business and is drinking leave him alone because you never know what can happen

Jim says:

09:50am | 31/05/11

Valid point; Indigenous people need to fix their own communities.

Indigenous people need to have the autonomy to do so. This would require the recognition of Aboriginal soveriegnty and the government to cease undue intervention into Indigenous lives. Maybe if the government spent less time forcing policy against Indigenous Australians and more time working with Indigenous Australians, as is done with other Australians, there would not be these issues.

Lisa H. says:

11:14am | 01/06/11

The problems are so ingrained, it is difficult to think of a solution for the camps. The experience of a family from my childhood is sobering.
The parents of this family (undoubtedly originally a part of the original ‘mission system’ in their youth) were two of the finest upstanding Aboriginal people you would ever meet.

Dad was the ‘black tracker’ in town, and so affiliated with the local police station. He was sober as a judge in a community of drunks.

Mum made a big impression on me as a child, because every school day, she would trolley up a stack of steaming hot roast meat lunch meals for her own children, and for the extra kids she was ‘looking after’ at the time.

They had four beautiful children.

Fast forward twenty years: the eldest, an incredibly good-looking and strong boy, was dead from a lung infection common in the camps.

Her second, a gorgeous and very quiet girl, never in trouble, was dead bashed to death with an iron bar from her drunk boyfriend.

Her third, a boy, was missing after being run out of town in relation to alleged sexual deviancy.

Life has not been kind to this pair, who deserved nothing but success and happiness in life. Camp life, and Aboriginal culture, is a mess as it stands today!

As modern people, we need to take the good, and throw out everything that is not working. Culture moves on all the time, in any community… violence has long been a part of Aboriginal culture, according to the earliest documentation of the appearance of wounds and disfigurements of Aboriginal people (particularly women) around Sydney.

People should not be afraid of change. People like my friends do not deserve to live like this.

Michael says:

01:52pm | 01/06/11

Some people will talk up Aboriginal people’s culture etc. how they have no greed or ownership and they are all like whats mine is yours etc. that sounds beautiful from one point or view. This concept helps to explain why there is no incentive to better yourself or get a job/education/clue, why strive to achieve anything if the fella next to you can bludge around all day and you still have to give him your hard earned whatever.

No wonder some indigenous people don’t bother.

Westerners or non indigenous people are like ” F off mate get a job, that’s mine”

If you have invested time and effort to have certain things you will value them and take care of them, if you can just grab someone elses instead why would you make the effort?

Dee says:

03:01pm | 10/06/11

My family lives in a rural town. We live in this town because my husband and our child are Traditional Owners (their Ancestors have lived here since before Colonisation)
I worked in the city in an identified job as a community worker. Truly I would defy any non-Aboriginal person to be able to do the job I did.
My (x)husband has studied and earned a trade and still cannot get a stable job in our area. So he’s had to move closer to city and still can’t get a job.  There’s not an Aboriginal person in our town employed by any of the major businesses.

fairsfair says:

09:04am | 31/05/11

Because that is not PC, but if you sat down in front of a bunch of aboriginals and asked them that question they would likely answer it. I have met a lot and a lot of them do want to make an effort. It is a horrible cycle, they think we hate them, we think think they are lazy adn they hate us - both of us are wrong.

Christian Real says:

09:07am | 31/05/11

Septimus
The coin flips both ways - some whites don’t make an effort either

Septimus says:

09:35am | 31/05/11

Christian Real,

Do the white people get the same entitlements, media coverage and lefty sympathy?

fml says:

11:06am | 31/05/11

Septimus,

Have white people been subjected to the same genocide?

Septimus says:

12:25pm | 31/05/11

fml

So for the rest of humanity, we are supposed to do what in order to ‘compensate’ for the actions of previous governments (some not even in this country)?

This victim mentality is bullshit.

James1 says:

12:57pm | 31/05/11

fml,

Which white people?  The Irish?  The Jews?  The Cornish?  The Albanian Muslims?  How far down do we have to drill here?

Septic individual. says:

01:01pm | 31/05/11

Spoken like a true defender of the oppressor.
Come from South Africa did you?
Congrats on your escape from the horror.
Sorry you ended up here.
Please go back.

fml says:

01:16pm | 31/05/11

“Do the white people get the same entitlements, media coverage and lefty sympathy?”

sounds like you are acting like the victim, complaining why you dont get the same entitlement. If you did not have the same victim mentality then you wouldnt be complaining.

“So for the rest of humanity, we are supposed to do what in order to ‘compensate’ for the actions of previous governments (some not even in this country)?”

What have the Canadians and US and New Zealanders done? First of all, promote their culture and their status as inhabiting this country before colonisation, then change your mentality towards them. Seems like you have a problem helping those in need, fair enough, but dont try to dissuade others who are willing to help, even if it is in the form of government incentives.

fml says:

01:19pm | 31/05/11

James1,

How many of them were oppressed by the Australian aboriginals?

Australian aboriginals were oppressed by the Australians. There is a link there. Where is the link between any of the groups you mentioned and Australia?

Erick says:

01:19pm | 31/05/11

@fml - Yes, white people have been subjected to the same genocide.

So the Aborigines were invaded once, 200 years ago? My ancestors were invaded three times last century, and my parents and grandparents lived through it all.

They should stop whingeing, and do as our people did.

Septimus says:

01:26pm | 31/05/11

Hey Sad Reality!

How’s you and your nutbag friend’s website going?

You still hiding under the bed?

Ooooh, they are coming to GET YOU!

fml says:

01:32pm | 31/05/11

Erick,

You definitely not stopped whinging.

James1 says:

02:00pm | 31/05/11

fml,

My post was in response to this:

“Have white people been subjected to the same genocide?”

I was trying to make the point that there is no such thing as “white people” as such, and that the idea of a white person is a social construct which has little relation to reality.  Also, I was trying to get across that Aborigines are by no means special when it comes to being subject to the horrors inflicted by their fellow man.

Septimus says:

02:07pm | 31/05/11

fml

I am not complaining at all.  That’s your misinterpretation.  I have all the comforts I need - I worked for it. 

They won’t help themselves - they don’t want to change.

fml says:

02:25pm | 31/05/11

Septimus i dont buy all that social science mumbo jumbo, an orange isnt an orange if i dont think it is.

You are complaining that aboriginals get more entitlements than white people. But James1 is saying white people dont exist now, its just a social construct created by someone, im not sure who. Maybe i dont exist maybe we are just in the matrix.

James1,

theres no such thing as white people now? Obviously “White people” was said in the context of this article which is about Australians. You do understand context dont you?

“Also, I was trying to get across that Aborigines are by no means special when it comes to being subject to the horrors inflicted by their fellow man.” so what? give them a cookie a pat on the head and say tough luck?

Ive never understood when people say “People have it better off than you, so stop complaining”, its sadistic, im not going to take pleasure in knowing there are people worse off than me, its not going to put food on my table nor will it provide me with any satisfaction at all.

James1 says:

02:27pm | 31/05/11

I’m dying to know Erick - where are your ancestors from?  I’m racking my brain for a nation that has been invaded that many times in 100 years.  Poland springs to mind, if you count the simultaneous Soviet and German invasions as two, but the invasion by Germany in WWI doesn’t count because Poland was part of Russia and Germany anyway.

Italy was a possibility, with the Austrian invasion of 1916, the German and American invasions of 1943.

I’m thinking one of the Balkan states perhaps - they are constantly being invaded and invading each other, but I’m not sure that that part of Europe qualifies as “white” in the sense that you use the word.

I’m stumped.  Please help me with at least a hint…

James1 says:

02:54pm | 31/05/11

Apologies fml.  I read your post out of context, and commented as such.

White people is a socially constructed concept though, in that it differs from person to person and society to society.  For instance, I don’t consider Greeks and Italians to be “white”, but I know many Italians and Greeks who would disagree.  150 years ago, the Irish were a non-white race.  The ones who construct the societal definition of white are the people in different societies, and then even within societies and between ethnic groups the definition of who is “white” and (more importantly) who is not “white” shifts and changes.  I’m surprised you are having such trouble understanding such a simple concept, given that you have shown yourself to be fairly intelligent in other discussions.  Nell Painter published a book on it recently that you might find helpful.

I need to pull you up on another point - there is nothing that we can try that hasn’t been tried when it comes to Aboriginal disadvantage in this country.  The only thing that hasn’t been tried is personal responsibility.  If Aborigines (and any other group with high levels of welfare dependency in this country) were forced to be personally responsible for their actions, then we might see some movement.  There is nothing that “white people” can do.  In any case, if it is white people that need to fix it, should any contribution to solutions exempt Chinese, Vietnamese, Greek, Italian, Balkan, Slav, Turkish, Arab, Japanese, Korean, African, Aboriginal Australian, American Indian, Maori, Polynesian, Micronesian, Melanesian, Malay, Indonesian, Cambodian, Khmer, Laotian, Thai, Burmese, Karen, Indian, Pakistani, Afghan, Tajik, Azerbaijani…

My point is, this is not a racial issue, and solutions to it can not be racial.  The individual is the starting point, and the finishing point, to these problems.  The issue at play is individuals making bad choices.  The solution is for these individuals to stop making bad choices.  Any other approach is a total waste of time.

Michael says:

03:25pm | 31/05/11

David Prior, also the government doesn’t need to compulsorily aquire housing that it already owns by way of public housing etc. these houses are owned by the commonwealth as are the other buildings built by government using tax payers money.

I think Indigenous people like non indigenous people are able to purchase their housing department homes from the department and utilise home north as well, seems fair to me.

Septimus says:

03:41pm | 31/05/11

fml

Not once did I complain aboriginal people get more entitlements.  I noted the fact.

fml says:

04:02pm | 31/05/11

James1,

I dont think the issue is racial, its the people who claim the aborigines get entitlements that call the issue racial, i see it as supporting your fellow man when in need.

“In any case, if it is white people that need to fix it, should any contribution to solutions exempt Chinese, Vietnamese, Greek, Italian, Balkan, Slav, Turkish, Arab, Japanese, Korean, African, Aboriginal Australian, American Indian, Maori, Polynesian, Micronesian, Melanesian, Malay, Indonesian, Cambodian, Khmer, Laotian, Thai, Burmese, Karen, Indian, Pakistani, Afghan, Tajik, Azerbaijani…”

No, none of these people were inhabitants of Australia when the british invaded, None of these countries invaded Australia or attacked the Aborigines.

” I’m surprised you are having such trouble understanding such a simple concept,” I do understand it, i just dont agree, we are talking in the context of White Australians and Australian Aborigines. Arguing the composition of white society is a moot point, just because australia has a different ethnic composition from the time of colonisation does that absolve the Australian government in its duty to help out its citizens?. The Australian government has a duty to help out all citizens irrespective of ideology or ethnicity. we offer assistance if people require it, and if someone doesnt want it, good for them.

If we dont help people in need, we are going to create a group of angrier individuals and create further segregation,.

James1 says:

04:56pm | 31/05/11

fml, you misunderstand me.  My point is that “white Australia” cannot compensate Aborigines for repressing Aborigines.  “White Australia” owes the Aborigines nothing more than it owes any other Australian.  It seems we agree on that point.  If we were to accept the logic that “white Australia” owes Aborigines something because of historical repression, in redressing this we would need to exclude all the groups I listed, and many, many others.  I for one would owe nothing - my parents came here in 1981.

Again, the solution here is for individuals to take responsibility for their lives.  Surely you agree with that.

Erick says:

10:13pm | 31/05/11

@James1 - Some parts of Eastern Europe were invaded by the Soviets, then by the Nazis, and then by the Soviets again. The first invasion wasn’t as violent as the other two, but it was still a forcible takeover by a foreign power.

But then, almost every part of Europe has been invaded dozens of times in the last millennia. It’s almost a way of life over there.

fairsfair says:

09:28am | 31/05/11

Seanr, I think Cairns seems to “work” because of Yarrabah and Mossman. I don’t think that the segregation is positive though. There seems to be a bit of an increase in violence lately, but as I am sure you will agree the local media is a bit dodge, so I’d have to view some actual stats before I would shout to the world the place is more violent than any other or more than it has ever been before.

I went to Gordonvale, so I grew up with Yarrabah kids and the majority of them were really decent - just like the white ones. Some of their families worked, some didn’t. Most of them are now parents and still live in Yarrabah. I see no issue with their chosen lifestyle, but I do take issue with the fact that it is solely government funded and they receive little incentive to work if they choose not to. They seem to be protected in that little bubble of beautiful beach where they do not lead a completely traditional lifestyle.

I think we need to collectively decide if we should pull the pin on this way of life. The elders will need to get involved and there needs to be incentive for them to fully rejoin the greater community. I think it would upset the apple cart something huge if it was to happen, but I think it probably needs to. While these types of communities are funded people are falling over themselves to identify. 

I think the biggest issue is the so called “white blackfellas” who refuse to acknowledge their white heritage. This doesn’t go to well within the white of the black community but nobody really has the freedom to speak about them (just look at how Bess Price was reacted to). I would also like to note that I know some pretty top white blackfellas too - I don’t wish to generalise/stereotype at all in any of my comments.

Septimus says:

09:12am | 31/05/11

You can bet most of those bleeding lefties, have never met an Aboriginal.

David Prior says:

09:41am | 31/05/11

The policy of Assimilation is flawed as Indigenous Australians have consistently been denied rights which consider them Australian citizens. (franchise act, removal of children, NT INtervention).

Thus Indigenous Australians are caught in this ‘no where land’. Even if Western values are adopted they will never be fully accepted therefore leading to loss of Indentity causing more social problems. This is perhaps the stage Australia is currently at. Recogniction of Indigenous culture would solve alot of social issues caused by this ‘no where’ effect therefore strengthen society as a whole.

Although if your belief in the power of assimilation continues then we will apply it to the rest of society. All religions except for Catholicism will be banned (catholicism is the majority religion in Australia) and all people of non-british background will have children removed to be educated in British ways (british heritage is still the most prevelant in Australian). These measure obviously would not work as individual cultures have strengthened society to make Australia the prosperous place it is today. So why then would you apply such practices to Indigenous culture?

d says:

10:08am | 31/05/11

Yes the NT intervention was so terrible. how dare whit people stop the black man raping and molesting and beating his childeren…

David Prior says:

10:41am | 31/05/11

@d

As you did not address the other points I raised I will assume you agree with them.

In regards to your comment, The NT intervention was used as a shameless ploy by Howard to get reelected. Although assuming that isn’t the case, do you believe that policy which discriminates against a section of community can solve social issues? Rather than trying to work with communities to address problems, as the government does with non-indigenous people, laws were passed to specifically for Indigenous people. This must mean one of two things, 1. child abuse doesn’t occur in non-indigenous communities or 2. the government should apply the same laws to non-indigenous communities.

If the government legislated for non-indigenous families in the same way as been done in the NT people would consider it a breach of civil liberties.

Septimus says:

10:46am | 31/05/11

David Prior,

White people suffered the same things - orphans were taken and put into homes and abused.

What rights are they denied?

Aboriginals no longer have cultural identity, it’s fading fast.  The youth of today copy black american culture.

More has been done to recognise Aboriginal culture than any other in this country.

Why are all the other cultures able to assimilate and Aboriginals are not?

Michael says:

11:19am | 31/05/11

David Prior, you are correct assimilation is a failed policy that was void of respect of culture or compassion. This is the reason that the policy changed to integration of Aboriginal people into mainstream Australian society.

The way forward is not to have many many different Indigenous groups with their own different needs all being individually met, it seems it will benefit more Indigenous folk to integrate into the wider community.

This is the reason that the intervention suspended the racial discrimination act and also suspended the ability of magistrates to consider customary law or cultural differences when handing down sentencing. Simply put, having two sets of rules being applied to Australians has been shown to be unworkable and divisive and has not been yielding the type of improvements required by Indigenous people or their remote communities across the Northern Territory.

Yes some people will focus on the apparent loss of freedoms? or rights and that is their right to do so, please don’t lose sight of the other people that live in these communities and are of these communities, that have had their lives improved immeasurably and the safety of children and women from alcohol restrictions, all Territorians now must accept restrictions on alcohol sales because we have stood by and watched the decimation of a culture, with alcohol and drugs.

Seanr says:

11:26am | 31/05/11

@ David Prior, if you agree that discriminating against Aboriginals is wrong then I’m assuming you also agree that discriminating in favour of Aboriginals is wrong? So we should abolish all Aboriginal based groups, awards, sporting teams etc…I do. Just wondering if you’re only against discrimination when it can be seen as a negative?

Bev says:

11:34am | 31/05/11

David Prior says:09:41am | 31/05/11

The policy of Assimilation is flawed as Indigenous Australians have consistently been denied rights which consider them Australian citizens. (franchise act, removal of children, NT INtervention).

In 1968 an overwelming number of Australians voted to change the constitution to recognize aboriginals as Australians.  The election of the Whitlam government in 1973 developed the policy of separate development brought about by the lefts cultural relativism and noble savage arguments.  So began the aboriginal industry who have more interest in their own welfare and empire building than helping aboriginals.  After all if you actualy really helped these people and solved the problem you would be out of a job. These are the same mob who oppose Noel Pearson, Betty Price and others because what the propose could actually work. Opposing the intervention (guess that tags you) is a call for more of the same failed policy which clearly haven’t worked.  The intervention clearly has good and bad outcomes but instead of running with the good and revamping the parts that don’t work the aboriginal industry wants to thow it out and keep their noses firmly in the public trough. Travelling up north Imet good and bad aboriginals.  The aboriginal manager of Bearepair Katharine comes to mind not because he was aboriginal but because he bent over backwards to help me with a tire problem whereas the manager of Bearepair in Alice Springs (white) was totally useless. Just about turning me off that company for life.  Faith restored in Katharine by a manager who knew his job and did it well.

David Prior says:

11:40am | 31/05/11

@septimus

I do not wish to say non-indigenous people did not suffer through certain governmental policies as I am sure this is true. Although there is a difference because Indigenous children were removed because of Aboriginality not due to lack of family. Thus the government was using policy to discriminate against Australians based on their Aboriginality.

Indigenous Australians have historically and contemporarly been denied rights. Historical examples include, the removal of children, denial of the vote, denial of welfare, dispossesion, discrimintory clauses in the constitution. Contempory examples include; continued dispossession and limited say in land use and legislation banning alcohol and porn, compulsory aquisition of houses, with holding welfare, suspension of the racial discrimination act. Strangely the same legislation isn’t apply to areas in non-indigenous communities were social problems are prevelant which suggests the policies discriminate on the basis of Aboriginality. Also you must recognise how historic injustices perpetuate through generation. This recognition is rightly identified in other situation such as the effects of war on families and Jewish victims of the holocaust.

To say Indigenous Australians have no culture is extremely ignorant. In it’s very nature culture is dynamic. Do you think if the first colonisers of Australia would recognise the culture in Australia today? In the same way Indigenous culture can change, just because it doesn’t conform to your ignorant stereotypes of Indigenous Australians doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.

Finally i would say other cultures have ‘assimilated’ but rather been accepted as an important part of Australian society. If this were untrue there would be no Italian, Greek, Indian, Thai restrauants, no religions other than the church of england and English would be the only language spoken in the whole country. If we truly accepted Indigenous culture in the same way you would expect to see evidence of this in the community. From the ignorant comments on this page I would say the oppisite is true.

David Prior says:

12:03pm | 31/05/11

@ Michael, Intergration is a euphamism for assimilation. They are in practice very similar. Both require Indigenous Australians to adopt the majorities world view which in it’s very essence is an act of cultural imperialism. Actually the reason the government had to suspend the racial discrimination act was because policies including banning of alcohol and porn, compulsory aquisition of houses, were targeted spefically on the basis of Aboriginality thus contrevened the RDA. Governmental use of biopower to subjugate Indigenous Australians would never stand with tolerated if done to non-indigenous australians so why do we support it? (isn’t that two sets of rules?)

@seanr

Interesting argument except it fails to consider the historical discrimination of systematic denial of human rights by the Australian government to Indigenous Australians. Those programs are designed to do many things including, make people less ignorant about Indigenous Australians, restore balance to imbalances caused by discrimination and offer opportunities to people who wouldn’t otherwise have them due to social disadvantage stemly partly from Australian governments policies of discrimination.

You truly fail to see Indigenous Australians as human don’t you? Otherwise you might have some empathy and appreciate the suffering our government has caused.

David Prior says:

12:42pm | 31/05/11

@Bev,

I think you find that the referendum was in 1967. Also you find that the 1967 referendum did very little to improve the lives of Indigenous Australians. For example Indigenous Australian’s were still removed from families and still denied many citizenship rights. Actually if you had read any of Noel Pearson’s writing you would be aware of this as he has written extensively on this topic. Also I would contend Pearson advocates the autonomy of Indigenous Australians, as his projects in northern queensland attempt to empower communities (not through discriminatory legislation as with the NT intervention) and his article in Saturday’s Australian.

I will acknowledge there is a sector of the Indigenous community who agree with your viewpoint although I think the majority still support community based ventures that restore choice and power to the community.

Septimus says:

01:23pm | 31/05/11

@ David Prior

Were the governments at the time trying to resolve issues?  Is it possible they acted with the right intentions (even though misguided)?

Were they trying to improve the lives of Aboriginal kids?

White Australians:

Have had and continue to have their children removed.
Have been denied the right to vote.
Have been denied welfare.
Have been dispossessed.
Have been discriminated against.

White people currently lose their homes to build road and highways, coal seam gas companies and governments are taking farmer’s land as we speak.  There are restrictions on alcohol.  Porn is banned in a lot of places, some whole States have bans.

You must accept that there is a lot of welfare and programs devoted to providing for Aboriginals, more than any generation before.

The Jewish plight is recognised - they moved on and did something with the lives.

Aboriginal plight has been recognised - have they moved on?

Aboriginals no longer have Aboriginal culture - I know this, I have seen it, I have lived in an Aboriginal community.  The youth there behave, dress and listen to the same music as black americans. (this is a great tradegy)

You wouldn’t have a clue about what I have seen, so calling me ignorant doesn’t serve your argument nor advance it.

Aboriginal people don’t really want to assimilate - it will destroy their victim mentality.

Michael says:

02:04pm | 31/05/11

Dave, i would have been happier if you addressed my points and not try to shift the discussion to the definitions of assimilate and integrate which whilst similar are not the same.

Being passionate about something (which i assume you are) is not a valid reason to dismiss the views of others especially when those views are divergent from your own, that’s kind of the point of the whole topic, different people see things differently based on their beliefs.

Right and wrong is divisive and holds us all apart from each other, some people are all about talking up our differences but Indigenous people have so much more in common with everybody else than they have apart from everybody.

Indigenous want to feel and be part of Australian society, ie.  have education, health care, social services (all kinds not just money) good education, career prospects and so on, just like you and just like me.

The Territory intervention has also led to legislation being enacted that all welfare recipients will have their incomes managed because it’s not a racial issue, alcohol restrictions are now being placed on all Territorians by way of the banned drinkers register and having to show ID to purchase takeaway alcohol. So, we do tolerate these things being done to non indigenous peoples.

The more “apart” you feel or behave from mainstream Australian society the more you will experience being “apart” or not included in this society.

David Prior says:

02:07pm | 31/05/11

@septimus

So you have become an authority on judging the validity of a culture?
What exactly is the Aboriginal culture? Because apparently you are more qualified to discuss Indigenous culture than an Indigenous person people who lives it everday.

Indigenous Australians should not have to assimilate. As Dobson asserts; firstly the white man kills the Aboriginie, destroys their culture through seperation of children and dispossesion and then blames the Aboriginie for the culture failing survive, this truly is the seal of cultural imperialism.

Also good intention does not nullify the crime. Or is this untrue in the case of state sanction crimes in liberal democracies?

Septimus says:

03:47pm | 31/05/11

David Prior,

Thanks you proved my point entirely.  Stay the way you are and keep whining about it.

Michael says:

03:51pm | 31/05/11

David Prior, also the government doesn’t need to compulsorily aquire housing that it already owns by way of public housing etc. these houses are owned by the commonwealth as are the other buildings built by government using tax payers money.

I think Indigenous people like non indigenous people are able to purchase their housing department homes from the department and utilise home north as well, seems fair to me.

David Prior says:

05:54pm | 31/05/11

@ Michael

Michael I agree with your view about Indigenous Australians have dreams and aspirations as this is clearly true. Although the method of achieving this may be different as Western institutions may have different methods than Indigenous institutions which must be recognised. The government should consider this and act on a community level not discriminatory blanket legislation.

Also I do not exactly understand what you are trying to suggest, I am assuming you are suggesting the NT intervention was an appropriate measure. All measure taken in the NT Intervention were aimed directly at Indigenous Australians. This is inherently unjust as a government should not legislate against a group of people as it assumes all people in this group are criminals, which is not the case. I also fail to understand why the Australian Government could not work with Indigenous communities on an individual level to work out the specific needs of a community rather than blanketly legislate against all Indigenous people. The concept of blanket legislation would not be tolerated in areas largely populated by non-Indigenous Australians such as NSW and Victoria. Non-Indigenous Australians rightly expect the government to respond to needs of individuals on a community level so why is the same ideals not been applied to Indigenous communities? I think you will find John Howard needed some votes and blanket legislation appeared to responsed to the issue. The government could, if it choose to, start more effective community based programs although these take along time to work and cost alot of money. As Indigenous people make up limited votes and the Australian public does not care for Indigenous issues the government attempt to win cheap votes than fix the problems.

The man who started the NT Intervention did not want to a state apology to Indigenous Australians for years of suffering caused by Australian government policy. What does this tell you the individuals making these policies? Perhaps they don’t really care?

Also land been compulsory aquired is not state property but rather Native Title land so you could also view this as an attempt to control Indigenous land. (as you will know from mabo (no.2) Native Title can be extinguished with legislation)

I think the problem is that you do not have a good understanding of the issue. From your viewpoint I can assertain you have not read very extensively on this issue. You are entitled to your opinion but that doesn’t mean it isn’t coming from a place of ignorance.

RT says:

05:58pm | 31/05/11

Game. Set. Match - Septimus.

David Prior says:

06:01pm | 31/05/11

@ septimus

I feel sorry for you having so little empathy for fellow human beings. It is such an inconvience to consider other peoples suffering isn’t?

Michael says:

08:09am | 01/06/11

David Prior i have tried to address the acyual points you raised, you are not here to share in thoughts and find solutions you are here to tell people that don’t agree with you that they are ignorant.

You don’t know my background or exposure to this legislation, i suggest it is you that is being ignorant with you assumtions.

I believe you will find that governments have consulted with communities on methods that the communities prefer, permits to enter communities, self determination, shared responsibilty etc.

The fact remains that these projests have not worked, i don’t know why exactly they didn’t work but i know Indigenous leaders are in the public saying more must be done to close the gap.

What has been tried failed, now something new is being tried. If only twenty young kids grow up without abuse or alcoholism in their family homes then i say it’s twenty times better than what has happened before.

Koori Glenn below, makes his point extremely well, i am able to see from his perspective the whole story and to feel as it must feel to have that as your history. I don’t agree with discrimination of any kind.

fairsfair says:

10:09am | 31/05/11

Thats a fair comment.

I also genuinely query how heritage is so inherant within those who are not of “full blood” when the only inter-mixing within the ancient culture was between other indigenous groups. There was never other races here for it to have been done prior to the English landing.

Yes, identify that as part of your personal history - but don’t refuse all others.

I am fith generation Australian. I am not Irish even though every drop of blood within in me is fiddledeedee. My Grandma was a Mallon and yes, we were related to Typhoid Mary. Not a great thing to claim, but I can’t remove it from my history so I have to acknowledge it it there. Just like all those Irish - Islander cousins I have, they have to admit that they too are related to Typhoid Mary. They don’t, they just claim they are Islander and that is it.

S says:

02:53pm | 31/05/11

@ Sarah: (although this is a bit off-topic)...

I think I’m qualified to respond to your comment.
I was born in Australia to Italian immigrant parents so I consider myself Italian-Australian or Australian-Italian. Same thing. I’m proud to have both citizenships and passports. I’ve mixed with countless other Italian descendants of my generation ALL of my life, as well as people of countless other backgrounds, but I’ve never in my life met someone whose great great grandfather was Italian so they claim themselves to be Italian. That’s nonsense. It’s far more common these days that the children (especially females, and I don’t know why) of Italian immigrants pretty much denounce their Italian heritage and don’t consider themselves to be Italian. Or, at the other end of the spectrum, they were born here to Italian parents and claim to be Italian, but wouldn’t have much clue of modern Italian culture or language. Both situations are sad in my opinion. I say embrace both Italian and Australian cultures because they’re both great.

So I get your example of people claiming some sort of distant aboriginality, probably for welfare advantages, but your distant Italian relative reference is so exaggerated that I’d say it’s non-existent. Someone like that would make me cringe, but it hasn’t happened.

Mack says:

06:06pm | 16/07/11

Beautifully said Sarah.

George says:

10:27am | 31/05/11

OK- no special treatment.

As such these measures will be applied to the rest of Australia:

‘bad’ parents will have welfare benefits suspened, alcohol will be illegal, pornography will also be made illegal, all houses will be compulsorly leased from the government. All these measure are been used by the NT Intervention and as all people in Australia should be treated equally these measures will be taken

In addition the following measures will be taken to make everyone equal;

White children will be removed from families for one generation (to balance the stolen generation), White men will be denied the right to vote for 200 years (to balance out how long Indigenous Australians weren’t able to vote, white women would be allowed to vote after 100 years as they got the vote later), White people will be given welfare but placed in ‘communities’ on the edges of towns for 100 years (to replicate reserves)

We shall, thus, all live happily ever after as we are all equal.

Jade says:

11:10am | 31/05/11

George, are you able to tell me why it is necessary to continuously bring up the past?

If these people were capable of acting like normal human beings they would not of had alcohol banned, their wouldn’t of needed to be an intervention at all, children would not of been taken from their parent’s.

Children being removed from families happens all the time whether you are aboriginal or not.  If you can’t provide the basic necessity while having everything handed to you on a silver platter (welfare) than you do not deserve to have children - regardless of the colour of your skin.

fml says:

11:52am | 31/05/11

Jade if the past isnt brought up, then we are deemed to repeat it.

George says:

12:25pm | 31/05/11

Yes Jade I would love to tell you why I keep bringing up the past.

Because injustices perpetuate through generations just as posperity is passed through generations. I would give you an example, a person who is born into a rich family can expect to inherit the wealth of family thus because rich. Of course there are exceptions but wealth passed through generations does maker the next generation wealthy.

In the same way suffering, marginalistion and injustice is passed through generations. This fact is readily identified for non-indigenous Australians born into lower socio economic backgrounds although not for Indigenous Australians. Why? Because it hurts to remember the suffering our government has caused?

Also your assumption is most Indigenous parents are bad parents. This really is not the case. Indigenous mothers, like all mothers, love their children and want the best although certain social circumstances which they are born in may make this more difficult. Obviously neglect and child abuse cannot be overlooked but the government’s response indicates all Indigenous parents are bad and has been unfairly applied to only Indigenous parents, not to non-indigenous parents. The government has a responsibility to work with the community rather than further mariginalise Indigenous Australians.

Jade says:

12:41pm | 31/05/11

I don’t agree FML.  We all know their treatment was wrong and I think the way a majority of people treat others these days will prevent it happening again in the future.  I don’t find it necessary to bring up what has happened. It will not change anything…

Jade says:

01:40pm | 31/05/11

George, I never said all Aboriginal people are bad parent’s, as I have said… I know some awesome aboriginal people and I know they are the greatest parent’s. But if you are getting your children removed from your care, you must be doing something wrong… even you have to admit this.

I think its kind of a cop out to say that because your parent’s were disadvantaged you will be too… I know it is more likely that you will be poor etc but I see it from the view that you can create your own future.  I grew up extremely poor with a drug addict for a step father and a mother who had me at 15 years of age.  Me on the other hand am 23, work hard have no children and own my own house.  I only have this because I wanted better for myself and kids (when I have them) than what I had as a child.  Any person can achieve this if they have the drive to do so.  How can you have the drive to change when you get everything handed to you.

George says:

02:38pm | 31/05/11

@ Jade

I never said you think all Indigenous parents are bad parents. My point was the NT Intervention legislation assumes all Indigenous parents are bad. As you have experienced good Indigenous parenting you should see this is unfair.

Also your life experience is great, it’s good to hear people overcome disadvantage although different to the Indigenous situation. There are similarities in some ways including the poverty although you were not discriminated against on the basis of your ethnicity.  I guess the question non-Indigenous Australians have to ask is; if colonisers did not invade Australia would such social problems exists or are the problems a product of colonisation?

We are the cause of the problem therefore I guess cannot really be the answer.

Jade says:

03:28pm | 31/05/11

If colonisation didn’t occur, how could we guarantee that there would be any Aboriginal people still alive today? Any other country could of come and destroyed the entire population.  You just never know, the land was bound to be taken over at some stage or another… after all countries have been colonised and conquered for thousands of years.  I think at the time, they thought they were doing what was best.

I think that the only thing discriminatory when I was growing up was the fact my family couldn’t afford to send me on camps, excursions etc but Aboriginal children had their’s paid for by the government… hardly fair in my opinion.

CS says:

06:03pm | 31/05/11

To the victor goes the spoils… we won this land fair and square.

But seriously, most of aboriginal problems stem from bad parenting. Most of them really are atrocious. What do you expect will happen to the kids when your folks are losers.

Losers breed losers. Better to be winners I say - or should I say it - BI-WINNING!!!

I’m off to drink some tiger blood with my other warlock buddies.

George says:

06:13pm | 31/05/11

You can’t possible expect to justify the crimes of colonisation by saying that someone else would have done it? That is like letting a murder off because someone would have murdered the victim regardless. That is truly flaw logic! Actually policies against Indigenous people at the time were intended to ‘breed them out’. Just look into Cheif protector Neville in WA. This is one of many examples.

I think it is sad that you couldn’t go on camp and excursions, you should have recieved help too. You can’t blame Indigenous people for the help you did get though. This logic suggests it is unfair because the Indigenous person recieved something above the white person, god forbid we should put Indigenous people first after years of discrimination!

You assume your whiteness give you a sense of entitlement above Indigenous Australians. This is racist.

jade says:

09:18pm | 31/05/11

George I am not saying that I deserved anything more or less than my Aboriginal peers.  I find it unfair that I was unable to attend due to lack of money while aboriginal children had their way paid.  If I had my way we would be equal and not go unless your parent’s could afford to pay… understand? Everyone have the same opportunity. If its good enough for little old whitey me its good enough for the aboriginal child too.

@ CS pass the tiger blood

Markus says:

10:24am | 31/05/11

“Plus they don’t all run around with a sign saying I am Indigenous”
Haha true, that’s the biggest one.
I was friends with a girl all through uni that I never would have even known (I always assumed she just had a Hawaiian or Filipino heritage) had it not come up that she was related to an Aboriginal sporting legend.

Tom says:

11:35am | 31/05/11

What a stupid rant ... “YAWN”

St. Michael says:

11:43am | 31/05/11

Worked as a criminal defence lawyer for 8 years, and therefore received a lot of oral histories, albeit the location was usually in a police cell and the subject of the history was usually how the individual wound up getting high, or drunk, or both, and thumping someone.  Or breaking into someone’s house.  Or threatening gas station owners with blood-filled syringes.

To be fair, I’ve met at least three or four who were genuine and trying to better themselves.

Sam says:

11:28am | 31/05/11

Tim the Toolman says: “...Or just screaming random obscenities because you won’t give them a smoke (the fact you don’t smoke is apparently irrelevant)....”

Couldnt agree more. I do smoke, and it amazes me how abusive they get because you wont supply them with free tobacco! In some small towns I have lived in I had the feeling I had the word “TOBACCONIST” written on my forehead.

Oh the memories… Walking through a park and have a handful come up to you (actually stagger because of the VB or goonie bags) and say to you “Hey Brudda, give us a smoke!”, you soon learn to do two things immdeiately, first decline their request, as they will want a pinch which means they will stick their hands in your tobacco pouch and grab a handfull, the second thing you must do is look for your exit out of the situation because they will ark up immediately when you deny their request.

John says:

03:40pm | 31/05/11

Yep. Got mugged by Aborigines as a kid and also as a teenager. Both times there was a gang of them and they were all bigger than me.  But you cop a couple of smacks in the head, give them 20c and you were on your way - Happy as Larry.

I used to work with an Aboriginal guy that was married to a Swedish girl. You couldn’t hope to meet a nicer guy.

Also once met a girl in the North West. Although she was white, she had lived extensively with the local Aboriginals.
She told me it was common practise in the communities for the mothers to trade their daughter to an uncle for the night for a cask of wine.

KimberleyMan says:

06:13pm | 01/06/11

What a great comment Andanin, just wish more people would experience what you have, so that can have an understanding of my people….....Love your work ....Tell those small minded mob out there…...

ks says:

12:59pm | 31/05/11

I used to live in Moree.  Lots of that stuff going on.  Not a week went by where I didn’t see a bruised Aboriginal wife, or kids smoking or selling themselves.  You’d see the windows boarded up in winter and then knocked out once summer came back around.  One guy I used to work with was an excellent employee but ended up demoting himself as his mum would take all his money and go to the pokies a rather sad state of affairs.
One amusing story though is the Miss Indigenous competition-most of the girls get a fake tan…that always struck me as odd.

Ange says:

01:18pm | 31/05/11

totally agree Redearth. I work with a program for Indigenous People and (as corny as it sounds) some of my best friends are Aboriginal. I also have a chinese friend, white friends…all sorts of friends. Why? because I make friends with beautiful people that I get on with.

Seems to me those of you who recall the stories about being verbally attacked by or had bad experiences with Aboriginal people have probably had equally terrible experiences with white people. I’ve had some dreadful experiences with white people and have never once had any problems from a black person. It’s all swings and roundabouts.

And to those who say we do too much for them…I wish we could send you to a community and see if you still feel the same. The issues with Aboriginal people go far beyond them not doing anything for themselves. These are the same issues faced by Indigenous people all over the world because we’ve taken away their culture, driven them out and plundered their lands, abused their women and children, introduced alcohol, taken away their ability to fend for themselves and now somehow they’re supposed to just suck it up and move on. Our ancestors are wholly responsible for this mess. 

The issues Aboriginal people face are the same as all people living in poverty and degradation. Multi-generational unemployment, lack of educational opportunities and the breakdown of family structures. They all add to the problems and compound the issues.

There is no quick fix but we can help to bridge these gaps by just being a bit less concerned with the politics or rights and wrongs of Indigenous affairs and just extend the hand of friendship.

Tom says:

02:15pm | 31/05/11

@ Ange, I notice in your statement, “I work with a program for Indigenous People”, that your continued livelihood depends on keeping the aborigines weak.

As Redearth said, “simplistic and fairly useless terms”.
... because I make friends with beautiful people that I get on with
... have probably had equally terrible experiences with white people
... It’s all swings and roundabouts.
... The issues with Aboriginal people go far beyond them not doing anything for themselves.
... we’ve taken away their culture, etc. (Who is “We”?)
... Our ancestors are wholly responsible for this mess.

Your sort of simplistic drivel has been “grease-balling” the debate for too long now while the aborigines’ plight continues to get worse. Don’t you feel its time to drop your fairy floss, victimhood language and allow them to get some pride back?

Mack says:

06:21pm | 16/07/11

Well stated Tom

James1 says:

01:02pm | 31/05/11

My father teaches at an elite school, which used to offer two racially selective sets of scholarships to disadvantaged students.  One set went to Aboriginal Australians, the other to Papua New Guineans, mostly Western Highlanders.  The scholarships provided full board and tuition from year 8 through to 12.  The PNG students had a 98% graduation rate.  The Aboriginal Australian ones had a 20% graduation rate.  They subsequently scaled back the ones offered to Aborigines in order to expand the PNG ones, because the school felt it was unfair to offer scholarships that would then be wasted, when there were people with no other opportunity to attend any kind of high school.

Denial says:

02:28pm | 31/05/11

I think personaly that there would me more white people in Australia on welfare that koori people.

Craig says:

03:29pm | 31/05/11

Well, given that Koori are only a small percentage of the Indigenous population, that sort of goes without saying.

James1 says:

03:38pm | 31/05/11

To paraphrase Le Duc Tho, that may be true Denial, but it is also irrelevant.  Furthermore, the solutions to ‘white people’ on welfare is the same as the solution to Aboriginal people on welfare.  And that solution is individual personal responsibility.

Denial says:

04:48pm | 31/05/11

James1, Your right. But ist not just Koori people.

James1 says:

05:28pm | 31/05/11

Denial, I believe we are in complete concurrence on that point.

KB says:

09:49pm | 02/06/11

loxy I am aboriginal and I have never heard of any of these traineeship programs that you speak of? which government are you talking about? If I had the opportunity to apply for one I would because I am a hard worker and would just like a chance to prove that I am

Denial says:

03:04pm | 31/05/11

Very true brother

Michael says:

06:07pm | 31/05/11

Yes, very well made points.

fox says:

12:41pm | 01/06/11

Aboriginies are ‘force fed’ booze? That’s rather patronising, I would have thought adults can make up their own mind whether or not to do something. If it’s obviously harming them, they should stop doing it.

Lisa H. says:

02:44pm | 01/06/11

Yeah, hate to disrespect your post, but the government hasn’t made anyone drink. In fact, the government spends a lot of taxpayer money on trying to minimise the harm caused by abuse of alcohol.
How does the ‘white Australia’ policy influence Aboriginal policy? Unless you are talking about the missions, run by Christian groups? Separating families is usually a bad thing, agreed… also there is evidence of abuse at some of these boarding high schools (also with other boarding environments with white children) but I don’t think you could argue these mission folk were aiming to teach Aboriginal people how ‘not’ to live…
all the best to you though.

Jack says:

03:05pm | 31/05/11

Don’t worry most of them are as white as you, but some are damn fast to milk the Aboriginal gravy train. I think it is about time that unless you are AT LEAST a third aboriginal you loose the right to the gravy train.

fairsfair says:

03:17pm | 31/05/11

Jim I agree to a certain extent, but you also have to appreciate the upheaval that was caused to the western settlers too. Be the released convicts who were transported here or the English and Irish immigrants who were told barefaced lies about the place and landed to nothing. It would have not been an easy time for anyone and everyone just had to adapt. Some failed, some succeeded in every race and creed.

Australia is Australia. We need to stop looking at it as having Traditional Owners, English, Irish, Italian, Greek, Iranian - yes we need to be proud of who we are, but we are all Australian first and foremost and we need to work out our own way of doing things for us, not the old ways or from the old country. My ancestors left Ireland because it was toxic, they didn’t want to come here and recreate a hotbed of intollerance and hate.

The irony is that those latte-set-do-gooders that you speak of are the ones least likely to have ever met an Aboriginie.

Septimus says:

05:14pm | 31/05/11

Bullshit

Tim the Toolman says:

05:27pm | 31/05/11

How am I supposed to take the rest of your post seriously when you lie on the first line?  Regardless of what you think, my stories are not made up.

fox says:

02:34am | 02/06/11

“they are someone’s son, father, mother, daughter, grandparent”

Why do people always say this? Ivan Milat was ‘someones son, father, brother etc’.. so what? How does this have any bearing on anything whatsoever?

Kelli says:

09:12pm | 02/06/11

FNQ good name for such a small minded person. Everything you have just stated about aboriginal people being drunk on the streets, asleep on stairs at major buildings, abusing people that are just passing by. but cops don’t arrest them is all BS!! come to Gold Coast and you will see the same behavior of white people treating aboriginals and all other people of colored skin from all over the world, “Just the way you have been apparently disrespected”!!

I am aboriginal and I work hard and have never not shown up for work ever in my life I go to work even when I am sick yet where I work we have had white people show up drunk to work or have been caught drinking on the job or not showed up at all and have never been fired they always just quit or leave.

Just another thing my aboriginal dad taught me growing up is “respect is earned not given”.