Carbon tax: Open thread and live blog

Dave says:

10:03am | 10/07/11

You could do better D and spend an even better day in Melbourne.

Rocksteady says:

04:01pm | 10/07/11

If a carbon tax does nothing for the environment, what will Tony Abbott’s plan do?
Keep in mind they both have the exact same goal of a 5% reduction.
Why doesn’t he just abandon his plan altogether?
Would make the choice much simpler

Joel B1 says:

05:44pm | 10/07/11

Snowing in Sth Hobart,

Close to the record 3.7C low of 1981 and 1901.

Gilards CO2 tax does work! It’s lowered temperatures already!

Johnny says:

07:15pm | 10/07/11

I’ve missed the Carbon speech,you know,Bobby Browns policy read by wotsherface,I hope it’s repeated in prime time,damm,disappointed

Erick says:

10:44am | 10/07/11

Actually the dog gets to bark on the day of the next election.

Clancy says:

06:47pm | 10/07/11

Actually, the Liberal dog barked when Peter Wabbott whistled.

ALP says:

01:28pm | 10/07/11

Quote Juliar Gillard,There Will Be No Carbon Tax Under The Govt I Lead ,Unquote
She probably told Craig Emerson’s wife all was good while they mingled

Rocksteady says:

01:57pm | 10/07/11

ALP - Have a whinge mate, Howard said ,a href=“http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ixn9fFatdcs”>“never ever”</a> on a GST and it turned out to be a great reform. Increasing to 12% would be even better.
People only now in 2010 are acting really surprised that politicians lie! What rock do you all live under?

ALP says:

02:29pm | 10/07/11

@ Rocks…..Quote Juliar Gillard,There Will Be No Carbon Tax under The Govt I lead, thanks for your facist permission to state a Fact about a Filthy Liar,back to your commission flat and your box wine fella

Rocksteady says:

02:37pm | 10/07/11

Ahhh, forgot the <
Completely ruined my point, but did give you all a brief lesson in html.
As thanks you should watch the link.

****  Have a whinge mate, Howard said ,<a >“never ever”</a> on a GST and it turned out to be a great reform.  ****

jf says:

03:42pm | 10/07/11

Rocksteady says:02:37pm | 10/07/11

“****  Have a whinge mate, Howard said ,<a >“never ever”</a> on a GST and it turned out to be a great reform.  ****”

Very true. It also replaced a bunch of other existing taxes that were inefficient and unfairly apportioned.

The carbon tax is the opposite - no mandate from the electorate (in fact the mandate from the electorate was for no carbon tax), an additional tax replacing nothing and randomly and indiscriminately apportioned with the biggest beneficiary being this government who will use it to fund their fiscal insanity and and the public service that administer it.

I can just see how it transpired. The setting - Swanny doing the budget late one night, burning the midnight oil.

Swanny - “oh, shit, this does not fncking balance”

The next day:

Swanny - “Julia, we’re forked. We don’t have enough money to pay for all that stuff we’ve already bought let alone what we’ve promised. We need another tax”.

Julia - “Shit Swanny, wasn’t the Disaster Levy enough. Jesus, we got lucky there. Sucked in Brissy though hey. That prick Rudd’s suburb was one of the worst hit: how funny is that?”

Swanny - “Come on Julia, this is serious. I helped you get in now you owe me. Don’t let me remind you we can do it again if we have to. “

Julia - “Settle down Wayne. We’ll think of something.”

Oakeshott (poking out from Swann’s fly)  - “How about that Carbon Tax. He he he he.”

Swann - “Get back in there you little shit. Still, what about it Juiia.”

Julia - “It’s risky Swanny. Bobby will actually expect it to, you know, reduce carbon emissions and that will be hard to sell.”

Swann - “Nah, just compensate everyone.”

Julia - “Don’t be stupid Wayne that’s not a carbon t….. Ah, I see where you are going with it.”

Julie (picking up phone) - Get me Bob Brown…

to be continued (the next person to continue)

Rocksteady says:

04:06pm | 10/07/11

JF - Everyone voted for an ETS in 2007, it was created by the liberals and copied by labor.
In 2010, both parties went to the election with a 5% reduction as policy.
Unless you donkey vote, you voted for both an ETS and a 5% reduction in greenhouse gas emissions in both 2007 and 2010.
So did 95% of Australia.
That’s a mandate.
How can you deny this mate?

Christian Real says:

04:47pm | 10/07/11

Rocksteady
This is from a story in the Sydney Morning Herald, “Let’s have the honest truth,once and for all, written by Alan Ramsey, on August 18, 2004Howard said:
“A GST or anything resembling it is no longer policy,nor will it be policy at anytime in the future. it is completely off the political agenda in Australia.”
“There is no way a GST will ever be part of our policy”
Never Ever,Never Ever, it’s dead, it was killed of by the voters at the last election.
This is from a story in “The Australian, written by Paul Kelly and Dennis Shanahan, on August 20, 2010 @ 12.00AM
“Julia Gillard’s carbon price promise”
“Julia Gillard says she is prepared to legislate a carbon price in the next term’
*in another paragraph she says:
“I don’t rule out the possibility of legislating a Carbon Pollution Reduction Scheme, a market-based mechanism,” she said of the next parliament, “I rule out a carbon tax’
* Julia Gillard has said before the last Federal Election, that she would legislate ‘A Carbon price”, and she has kept her promise, and she has not lied like Abbott and his friendly Sydney radio shock jocks would like everyone to believe.
This is from ‘The Age”, June 7, 2011
“Abbott dogged by old carbon comment.”
“Tony Abbott’s past as a climate change “weather vane’ has come back to haunt him - again”
“The Opposition Leader has been shown spruiking a carbon tax in an old interview that was aired on Q & A on ABC Television yesterday.”
“If you want to put a price on carbon,why not do it with a simple tax?” Mr Abbott argues.

Gordo says:

06:46pm | 10/07/11

Christian Real what is it you don’t get. Howard said there would be no GST then WENT to an election with the GST.
No matter how you spin the Gillard lie (remember the CPRS was a reason for outing Rudd) it is a lie.
Get those rose coloured glasses off and brush the sand out of them.
What is it with lefties and the blind faith in rubbish?

jf says:

06:52pm | 10/07/11

Rocksteady says: 04:06pm | 10/07/11

“How can you deny this mate?”

“There will be no carbon tax under a government I lead”.

Pretty emphatic Rocksteady. Had she changed her mind and commenced campaigning on a carbon tax or any other sort of scheme, taken it to an election and won, that would have been a mandate and I would have no beef with it.

However, her bald-faced lies are now not the issue. The issue is that her solution for reducing carbon emissions exclude carbon.

This tax is a surplus-save, so more no less. That she has sold it as a carbon tax, an apparent solution to what many consider an imminent and mortal danger, is despicable.

How anyone that truly believes that carbon pollution is mankind’s greatest challenge can support this is beyond me.

You’ve been hoodwinked.

John the Zombie says:

10:27pm | 10/07/11

Christian Real yes Howard did say that and in that election year he did not introduce it. He then realise it was a good policy so reintroduced and took it to an election in which he won. He did not say there would be no GST then put it through after elected he took it to an election. why musy labor always say half truths.

Rocksteady in the 2007 election both labor and liberal had a ETS but Howard was voted out of office and labor put in. Rudd took the ETS to copenhagen were he was hoping to make a big announcement that Australia would implement the ETS with the rest of the world till he worked out no one was on board and the ETS failed. He returned home and withdrew the policy because certain labor members (Gillard) told him the ETS was not worth it even though she now states it is the greatest challenge for Aus. Rudd got booted and Gillard was hired. During the election campaign both Labor and Liberals added ideas of how they would tackle climate change with two different policies. Gillards was a ETS not carbon tax and Abbotts was a sytem of offering incentives for companies to reduce thier carbon foot print (bit like labor incentives to the motor vehicle industry for greener cars). Gillard stated there would be no carbon tax yet one was included. So there were tw diff policies.

In regard to the tax free threshold yes we are getting a 18,200 threshold but has anyone noticed the tax we pay on the next bracket has gone from 15% to 19% so we are gonna pay 4% more.

Michael says:

02:35pm | 11/07/11

Rocksteady says:01:57pm | 10/07/11: Yeah, that’s right, you tool! So dony vote for either of them at the next election, you moron! What the hell has that got to do with shit!? juliar is a-ok because someone else said something else some time ago. BULLSHIT! She is the prime minister - and a shame-faced LIAR. I might add, she’s also a weak, morally corrupt fool devoid of any semblance of community service or duty to the country she has sworn to serve. She is a disgrace to the name labor. She and her kind have utterly destroyed what was once a great political party and should be utterly ashamed of herself.

David says:

10:50am | 15/07/11

This Carbon Tax is based on speculative science. A visit to joannenova.com.au will provide sufficient material for any open minded person to see the science is not settled.

Brizben says:

01:07pm | 10/07/11

The $18,000 tax free threshold indicates this isn’t just a carbon tax, it is tax reform.

Rocksteady says:

01:41pm | 10/07/11

Increase in the tax free threshold is great and long overdue.
The people who benefit the most are those who actually do the right thing by the environment, they will see some monetary benefit instead of just a fuzzy feeling inside.
  While those who are wasteful will pay the cost. Completely fair.

sean says:

01:51pm | 10/07/11

Such as Gillard stating in Mar2010 that all money raised would goto families? Or Gillard stating the seas would rise by 1m (or Robyn “100m” Williams)? Or Gillard stating there will be no carbon tax under the govt I lead? And exactly how much will this tax reduce the worlds temperature? And a tax that “over-compensates” people? yes, Julia has found the magic pudding!

Rob Russell says:

02:59pm | 10/07/11

Brizben…The lies of who??  No tax Julia or have did you miss the news!  Seriously a tax that will make no change to the environment, moves the coal, smelting and other polluting industries to Indonesia under far lower environmental regulations, could their be a bigger example of sheer arrogant stupidity.

As for the people that believe that somehow a major new tax and billions of dollars in compensation ( read cowardly vote buying) is not going to cost the general public anything…What planet are you from?

However, I should say thanks.  We have just forecast a tripling of our staff, revenue over the next three years here in Indonesia, in-between belly laughs at the antics of the Brown Government.

PTom says:

03:07pm | 10/07/11

@Sean at least you could uses full quotes. Instead of just liberal slogans.
The PM also said it included industry and research and what did the PM say before the no carbon tax.

Steve of Cornubia says:

03:08pm | 10/07/11

She increased the threshold (Yay!), then increased the income tax rates (Boo!). Enjoy that extra dollar she just slapped in your palm, because while she was waving it at you, Swan had his hand in your pocket and pulled out two dollars.

Rocksteady says:

04:11pm | 10/07/11

Steve of Cornubia - Where did she increase the income tax rate???  You just made that up.
Straight up lying doesn’t help your argument mate, some Alan Jones fans might like it though.
  “Never let the truth get in the way of a good story”

Steve of Cornubia says:

09:05pm | 10/07/11

@Rocksteady - she increased the tax rates right before your eyes, mate. Were you asleep, or just lulled into a hypnotic state by that awful nasal monotone that goes on and on and on and on and on?

Yup, while thresholds have been raised (though not by as much as the average punter thinks) tax RATES have also been increased, and the pollies dear friend, ‘bracket creep’ means that even those of us ‘compensated’ for the carbon tax via increased thresholds will be paying just as much tax within just two years - while still paying an ever-increasing carbon tax.

You’ve been dudded, mate.

John the Zombie says:

10:44pm | 10/07/11

The link rocksteady. Look at the 18,200 - 30,000 slot 15% - 19% and 30% - 32.5% the 33%.

http://www.news.com.au/money/money-matters/live-carbon-tax-what-it-means-for-you/story-e6frfmd9-1226090776139

Dash says:

10:52pm | 10/07/11

Brizben - Hey fool, the tax rates went up! The 15% rate to 19% and the 30% to 32.5% and then 33% the next. Tax reform??? All it does is punish the people paying tax. The ALP has just reduced the living standards of everyone in this country earning 80,000 or more! They have spat on the people paying the most tax.

Rocksteady says:

01:50pm | 10/07/11

You just don’t get it do you?
Your argument is like saying “increasing the tax on cigarettes will stop all smoking tommorrow” 
Smoking takes a big toll on the health system, it is necessary to tax them to pay for the high costs to society.
Same with a carbon tax, polluters should pay for the damage they do. Before it cost nothing to pollute, now it costs money and the best companies will innovate to bring down their costs and those that succeed will gain a huge competitive advantage.

Rocksteady says:

02:28pm | 10/07/11

You say carbon but what I think you mean is carbon dioxide, methane, nitrous oxide, hydroflurocarbons (HFC’s) , perflurocarbons (PFC’s) and sulphur hexafluoride.
Carbon Dioxide is produced in great amounts but doesn’t really have much greenhouse effect. The others I listed have a much bigger effect (400 - 24,000 X stronger).
  Creating and releasing 1 tonne of man-made sulphur hexafluoride has the same greenhouse effect as 24,000 tonnes of Carbon Dioxide. (Equals travelling 72,000,000 km in your car)
  Before the carbon tax guess what it cost to release a tonne of Sulphur Hexafluoride into the atmosphere? Absolutely Nothing!!!
After the carbon tax, it now costs $552,000.
  I suggest you look up the economic concept of externalisation, companies have had a free lunch for way too long, it’s now time to put a price on environmental destruction.
Also, I think your name is very apt.

Wota Tax says:

03:33pm | 10/07/11

@ rockstar Thanks for your faux intellectualism,I can only imagine that you will get up yourself in the morning and create some carbon,shame on you

Rocksteady says:

04:43pm | 10/07/11

Wotafuchup / tax - I ain’t in anyway intellectual, just rational man. (Don’t even really know what faux means, guessing by your tone it’s not positive.)
After you read the first sentence you realised I wasn’t on your side without reading the rest, or clicking the links and responded accordingly.
Yea I create carbon, albeit much less than most, also think I’m much happier than most others, no shame involved there. Hope everyone thinks about their actions and the consequences.
Can’t keep kicking the can down the road hoping someone else will take care of it.
Got you to change your name tho
Who’s really living in shame?

c.conserv. says:

06:17pm | 10/07/11

@Rocksteady,  Of course you know what “faux” means

Stop pretending.

Rocksteady says:

07:12pm | 10/07/11

Sorry C.Conserv.
I understand the concept that its a negative word. But for someone to accuse me of intellectualism then use the word faux seems quite ironic. Speak English and I’ll understand.
Did you even read the points I raised?
Maybe this whole thread should be about Gillard’s hair styling instead of major tax reform?

Rocksteady says:

07:20pm | 10/07/11

My comment in French just in case:

Désolé C. Conserv.
Je comprends le concept que c’est un mot négatif. Mais pour quelqu’un de m’accuser de l’intellectualisme, puis utiliser le faux mot semble assez ironique. Parler en anglais et je comprendrai.
Avez-vous lu le même points que j’ai soulevés?
  Peut-être ce fil entière devrait être d’environ coiffure Gillard au lieu d’une réforme fiscale majeure?

(only word the same is Faux)

Problem?

c.conserv. says:

09:54pm | 10/07/11

@Rocksteady:  Problem? -  Gillard’s awful hair?  Nope. Just one thing -  even if you’re giving a lesson, no capital for “faux”..... (typo? - mais oui!)
What a show-off   -  sed multi sumus, sine dobio

Oh, the cigarette smokers!  Poor hounded creatures.  “It is necessary to tax them…....”  Anyone had the guts to ban tobacco?  No.  And “the big toll on the health system….” -  that’d be all the people who don’t insure, preferring to spend their money elsewhere.  That’s the big toll.
No doubt about it.

Fiona says:

07:14pm | 10/07/11

Ar, actually our “friend” Tony got his 5 minutes in right after her announcement. I’m sure the media will repeat snippets of both announcements ad nauseum.

The Badger says:

02:11pm | 10/07/11

No shit,
They excluded carbon?
This changes everything,

Good pickup jf
Now show me that red faced look!

jf says:

02:29pm | 10/07/11

?????(???)???!!!!!

Welcome aboard Badger.

I know that you and I disagree about AGW but at least we can now agree that this tax is bad.

For me, it is unnecessary.

And for you, it achieves nothing.

I’m sure we’ll disagree on something soon though.

Rocksteady says:

02:44pm | 10/07/11

If the average punter cared to look at the major parties policies, they might be shocked to find that its exactly the same - 5% reduction target.
Its just that Labor advocates a market based mechanism and liberals advocate “direct action”.
  Is it just me or did they swap the basic principles that their parties were founded on while no one was looking?

Dash says:

10:49pm | 10/07/11

There will be no carbon tax under a government I lead. - What was that you were saying about lies?

This is socialism dressed up as environmentalism. The ALP has just reduced the living standards of all Australians earning 80,000 or more. In other words, all the people paying the lions share of income tax have just been spat on by the ALP yet again.

The ALP punish people who get off their arses, educate themselves and make a good life for themself. The people who ask for nothing and pay their way in our society. These people get punished. Meanwhile, not only do the ALP compensate coal and steel, but they throw money at the people already paying hardly any tax, bums, lay-abouts and people already on the take.

Socialist wealth redistribution of the highest order for nil environmental gain. Gillard and the ALP deserve to voted into the wilderness for a very long time.

Christian Real says:

03:27am | 12/07/11

Dash
“If you want to put a price on carbon,why not just do it with a simple tax?
*Tony Abbott on Q & A, ABC Television 2009
“The Opposition Leader told ABC’s The 7.30 Report yesterday that voters should not believe every pledge he makes unless it is written down as the “gospel truth”
“Mr Abbott revealed that “In the heat of discussion” he sometimes went further with a promise than he should.”
“The statements that need to be taken absolutely as gospel truth are those carefully prepared scripted remarks.”
* Source: “The Sun Herald”,
* The Story: “Don’t believe everything I say - Tony Abbott “
* The Writer: Phil Hudson
* From: “The Herald Sun”
* Written on:May 18, 2010 @ 2.41PM

“Julia Gillard says she is prepared to legislate a carbon price in the next term.”
“I don’t rule out the possibility of legislating a Carbon Pollution Reduction Scheme,a market-based mechanism,she said of the next parliament. “I rule out a carbon tax.”
“This is the strongest message Ms Gillard has sent about action on carbon pricing.”
* Source:  “The Australian”, “Julia Gillard’s carbon price promise”, written by Paul Kelly and Dennis shanahan, on August 20, 2010 @ 12AM

ZSRenn says:

11:18am | 10/07/11

I like it the other way!

Joan says:

10:32am | 10/07/11

Juliar Carbon Tax Lotto launch with no big payouts, sounds like a Wilkie pokie machine , small wins for some,  funded by big rip-off others and as useless as a pokie machine. Juliar Carbon Tax will not change the weather but will send jobs to China and Australians broke.

Rocksteady says:

03:10pm | 10/07/11

And $0 a week will? As in doing nothing at all?

$4 a week is on top of extra costs associated with the tax. How much do pensioners want? $300 extra a week? 
You argue against a tax while demanding more money for a certain group, bit hypocritical.

Rocksteady says:

03:58pm | 10/07/11

Joan - A Wilkie pokie machine?
I think a Wilkie pokie machine would stop you from playing altogether and show you some shares for an Australian company averaging 7% growth (not including dividends and tax breaks).
Every $100 in a pokie pays back a max of $90. Most of that $10 is tax.
Idiots pumping money into pokies pay more every year in tax than the biggest polluters.

Joel B1 says:

05:47pm | 10/07/11

Allow me to answer for them.

No.

Denial is a Disease says:

05:49pm | 10/07/11

The Punch isn’t a democracy. Keep your discourse civil, without telling outright lies or resorting to ad-hominem, and you’ll be published.

Try this if you are struggling - don’t say anything you wouldn’t say out in public. Even better, don’t say anything you wouldn’t say without putting your real name to it.

Quite easy, really.

P.S. I really enjoyed your support of Monckton. It made my day.

MarK says:

11:18pm | 10/07/11

Hai denial.

Nothing I say here is anything I would not say in public.

See with you I think you are a fool. If we were in public i would say, hey idiot you are a fool.

See.

thanks for listening

The Badger says:

10:31am | 10/07/11

I fail to see what liberty has to do with reducing CO2 emissions Perhaps you can enlighten us?

In the meantime, consider this
If you don’t know where you are going, you will wind up somewhere else.
Yogi Berra

B says:

11:07am | 10/07/11

@The Badger

So you dont see the fact that we have lost our right to voice our opinions as a loss of liberty?

Definition of Liberty:
1.a. The condition of being free from restriction or control.
  b. The right and power to act, believe, or express oneself in a manner of one’s own choosing.
  c. The condition of being physically and legally free from confinement, servitude, or forced labor. See Synonyms at freedom.
2. Freedom from unjust or undue governmental control.
3. A right or immunity to engage in certain actions without control or interference.

“Liberty is a concept in political philosophy that identifies the condition in which human beings are able to govern themselves, to behave according to their own free will, and take responsibility for their actions.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty

So by DEFINITION, this is a loss of liberty.

Go away badger.  Your comment shows you are a troll who does not know what they are talking about.

Against the Man says:

11:32am | 10/07/11

If you don’t know where you are going, you will wind up somewhere else.
Yogi Berra

.....that was for Juliar Gilltard the backstabber that did what she did because Ruddy’s government ‘lost its way’? So Badger does she even know where she is going if it is Bob Brown pulling her leash? Is that why she lied about the carbon tax and we are somewhere else?
HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHahahahahaahHaHahaAHAhAhAhAHa
Best joke this Sunday!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ps: Are Roxon and Garrett still in hiding while collecting a paycheck? Updates please?

B says:

11:54am | 10/07/11

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yogi_Berra

“Berra, who quit school after the eighth grade, has a tendency toward malapropism and fracturing the English language. “It ain’t over till it’s over” is arguably his most famous example, often quoted. Simultaneously denying and confirming his reputation, Berra once stated, “I really didn’t say everything I said.”“

And your quoting this guy??

C. says:

12:02pm | 10/07/11

B
Didn’t you just express your opinion?

Where’s you liberty gone? Are you waiting for a knock on the door just now? Are you a denier? Pro-tip - The science is settled get used to it.

The elected government is putting in place a carbon tax. The elected government has spoken on behalf of the people. That’s how government works.
This is the essence of liberty and you are a troll.

B says:

12:22pm | 10/07/11

@C.

So your stating that this government was elected?  Because I would argue that they weren’t.  No-one voted for a Greens-Labor alliance but it is what we got.  A hung parliament is not a true representation in a democracy.  The Greens have taken advantage of the current political climate to push through their radical agendas and policies under the guise of grassroots green/environmentalism movements.

“The elected government has spoken on behalf of the people.”  - What a joke!!!!

Calling me a troll?  I’m at least informed.  It is quite obvious you are not.

B says:

12:25pm | 10/07/11

@C

BTW since there is no EQUAL representation in parliment.  Just a one-sided argument.  I put it to you that no, I don’t have the right to voice my opinion.  Neither do thousands of Australian’s that have had their sovereignty and prosperity trampled on by this government.

Oh I fogot.  You want the tax in because your in the “Low income earners” category and want others to compensate for your mistakes/failures in life!!!  Socialist!!!!

The Badger says:

12:26pm | 10/07/11

B
You’re not as dumb as you appear on screen.
You did notice yogi berra at the bottom of my comment. That’s where I gave the author of the quote. Excellent comprehension skills.

If you come to a fork in the road, take it.”
Yogi Berra

C. says:

12:32pm | 10/07/11

If you don’t understand how the Australian system of government works, you are not only a troll, you’re an ignorant troll
If you are just unhappy with the democratic process, than you just a troll.

bye bye and enjoy opposition, you’ll be there for a long time.

B says:

01:38pm | 10/07/11

@C
So by your own definition your a troll!!!  It is quite obvious that you attack the man and not the information.

@The Badger
Obvious that you attack the man and not the information.

Why does the left always have to resort to personal attacks to get a point across?  Can you not put forward ANY argument that actually can contribute to a debate?

Your also quite wrong.  Because your comments show your ignorance.  The “Do as your told” mentality of the left is bewildering.  Don’t research anything.  Just believe what your told like a good little comrade.

The Badger says:

02:05pm | 10/07/11

B Perhaps I gave you too much credit.
You started off with “Go away badger.  Your comment shows you are a troll who does not know what they are talking about. “
And then you say
“Obvious that you attack the man and not the information.”

In The words of one of your sockpuppet friends
“Keeping your mouth closed will help people keep the illusion that you know something about a topic. Keep up.”
Have a nice day
and enjoy opposition in the years ahead.

B says:

02:41pm | 10/07/11

@The badger

You offered no information to attack.  Just mindless drivel.

“I fail to see what liberty has to do with reducing CO2 emissions Perhaps you can enlighten us?”

I wasn’t attacking the man.  I was attacking your LACK OF information.  if you didn’t understand it then I’m sorry.  But, there is a distinction between, calling something for what it is, and being patronizing.

I perhaps shouldn’t have lumped you in with C.

Apparently success is now a bad thing!!!

Lisa H. says:

12:27pm | 10/07/11

I agree that most normal people would agree that ‘families’ includes, by definition, children in the household. However the pc brigade have stretched the meaning of ‘family’ so far as to make it virtually meaningless.

I honestly don’t know what politicians mean when they say the word ‘families’ any more. I think they mean each and any old ‘household’.

And as a very hard-working family that works several jobs between us, thereby pulling in more than a subsistence level income (before tax, let us note), I’m sure they don’t include our household in the term ‘working families’ either.

Ben81 says:

01:22pm | 10/07/11

No Lisa it means some of the compensation will come through the Family Tax Benefit to further subsidise those who choose to breed with money from those who don’t.

Jade says:

01:58pm | 10/07/11

It kind of makes the thought of popping out a few spawn more appealing, I mean why work for your money when the government just gives it to you and all you have to do is breed.

Sick of this says:

11:57am | 11/07/11

@ant. So right. I am sick to death of subsidising bloody families. I worked my butt off to earn the money that I do - I already pay a tonne in tax, why the hell do I have to subsidise every man and woman out there who either a) decided a baby was a great idea, b) couldn’t be stuffed reaching for the condom’s or c) accidentally got knocked up and decided they better keep it. Super. Thanks a fucking lot Gillard and thanks a fucking lot to the greedy families with their grasping hands standing out to attention.

Michael says:

02:27pm | 11/07/11

DAMN STRAIGHT! Only this government could comeup with a tax on a tax on a tax. We will not only pay more for everything(carbon tax), we will pay more GST (tax) and have to pay more income tax to supsidise the whole stupid mess. And all this so some lying arse can keep her selfish death grip on power! I’d so freaking angry about this BALLS UP that I could spit blood!

Don’t anyone give me any “oh the environment” bullshit either! This has NOTHING to do with the environment!! If it did, why not forget the handouts, forget the tax and just hand the billions it’s going to cost to cripple our remaining businesses to scientists and engineers to build actual low or zero emission electricity generators or something ACTULLY USEFUL or good for the environment!!??

Bullshit! gillard. Complete, steaming, festering, fettid bullshit!

nossy says:

12:59pm | 10/07/11

@MarK never thought I would ever say this MarK but I believe Tony Abbott is now a shoe in to be PM in 2013. A revenue negative Carbon Tax that will not make one iota of Climate difference is a godsend for Abbott. Meanwhile China,India, Russia etc all continue to pollute unchecked with no plan to bring in any Carbon Tax!

Peter says:

01:40pm | 10/07/11

@nossy
Nossy, I’m beginning to worry that maybe you’re not feeling well.
I’m not complaining, in fact I’m pleased that you’ve seen the light and changed your views.
However, I’m a little fearful that you may be trying some reverse psychology.

MarK says:

01:55pm | 10/07/11

It is not the only reason nosthow but certainly one of the larger ones.

We just have to go through the inevitable stuff ups to get us there yet.

Still the science is in, the world is blah blah blah blah blah and we shall all laugh and mock those with diseases and with foreign accents. They are probably Christians too - makes it all the better.

The Badger says:

02:07pm | 10/07/11

nossy
You do realise your sudden about turn will not get you any closer to Rosie’s pearly gates don’t you?
Tony’s the only one with the key to that version of paradise.

nossy says:

02:50pm | 10/07/11

@Peter - absolutely not Peter - as i have said in the past i am not a membe rof any Party and can make up my own mind. Gillard has gutted this so called Tax to the point where it will cost more than it will bring in and I strongly doubt will not change the Climate one iota. I genuinely call “Bullshit” Peter! Standby for a bullshit MRRT!

nossy says:

02:55pm | 10/07/11

@The Badger - I see you are having fun on the blog Badge but seriously you dont believe this gutted Carbon Tax will achieve anything do you ? I mean Gillard struck off 500 -yes 500 of the biggest emitters last week! Thats when I called “Bullshit”!

The Badger says:

03:28pm | 10/07/11

nossy
You can call it anything you like and that’s OK with me.
I’m glad that finally something is being done.
Every journey begins with the first step.
Abbott would have us do nothing because he doesn’t believe in AGW and all his scaremongering has only one objective. Political power at any cost.

The longer we wait, the more it will cost.
About time Australians stood up and showed the world that we are a proud and clever nation that isn’t afraid to confront the tough problems and provide leadership on this important issue.

PS you still aren’t getting any closer to those Rosie pearly gates with your strategy.

No 1 Rosie says:

03:42pm | 10/07/11

The Badger The Harass

Jealousy is a curse but you can make it a blessing by doing a Nosthow and abandon the sinking ship!

I have no idea what Gillard has announced but reading through the comments, nothing has changed. However, I can only imagine how excited little puppy dogs Peter Van Olsenan and Kieran Gillbert would be today. They would have forgotten what today was about - the announcement of the full details of the carbon tax. Instead of scrutinizing it they would be anxiously demanding what Tony Abbott and the Coalition would do as an alternative Govt.

Going to watch it now and see what I can pick up!

Nosthow, I still think you a champ, hopefully one day soon The Badger The Harass will come to his senses and abandon the sinking ship.

As Tony Abbott would say I’ll keep trying until ELECTIONS!

The Badger says:

04:02pm | 10/07/11

nossy
Rosie puts down the knitting, gets out of the rocker puts on her tri-focals and coaxes words out of the keyboard. Unfortunately, she hit an a when typing champ when she meant to hit the u key
Hahahahahahaha

I take it back
Your strategy may yet pay dividends with the old gal.
Bula

John the Zombie says:

12:19am | 11/07/11

For someone who has a go at Abbptt you yourself Badger are a sexiest pig. Also I dont believe in man made global warming but do believe that we must reduce our use of non renewable resources as our future generations will need them. I do this by only having one light on, turning off all appliences at power points. Putting a jumper and blanket on instead of a heater in winter and having windows opened in summer.

I also believe that Australia should build nuclear power stations as they provide large electricity generation at minimal carbon emission and it is hypocritical of Labor to say no to nuclear power because of the waste yet we import it overseas.

PTom says:

03:14pm | 10/07/11

You forgot the biiggest Loser Abbott and the Liberal Party

Que says:

06:35pm | 10/07/11

@PTom. You sum up the stupidity of the left in one sentence. Gillard brings in a tax that will benefit no-one nor the environment and you claim this will somehow damage TA.

Post-modernist logic at its best.

Coop says:

02:23pm | 10/07/11

Oh how sweet it is!

Against the Man says:

02:15pm | 10/07/11

jf could you please stop posting comments that I 100% agree with and am wishing I had a LIKE button to push! You are making me all happy and nice and I’m starting to lose my edge!

But seriously could not agree with you more! What a mess….........

BS says:

05:43pm | 10/07/11

You two should be really ecstatic when gay marriage comes in.

jf says:

07:52am | 11/07/11

BS says: 05:43pm | 10/07/11

“You two should be really ecstatic when gay marriage comes in.”

I will, but because I believe in it not because I’m gay: not that there’s anything wrong with that.

But, BS, what lead you to believe we are the same gender? Making a few generalisations there friend? Very un-PC of you.

MarK says:

01:02pm | 10/07/11

Just don’t be “nasty” Erick or you will be like me and be threatened with a ban.

“Nasty” simply means pointing out hypocritical hate attacks on individuals it seems. Not pointing out peoples diseases or disabilities and laughing at them.

There is probably more but you get the drift.

Long live free speech!!!!

jb says:

01:03pm | 10/07/11

Tory although I don’t agree with how he said it but yeah, I think you need to change your mods, mine didn’t make it either…

Erick says:

01:15pm | 10/07/11

I made three comments under the name “Erick”. They were pretty mild ones, criticising the government. All three were censored.

I wondered if there was a technical glitch. So I changed my name to “Samuel”, and posted a comment praising the government. This one got through, at 12:43.

I subsequently made another comment under that name, pointing out that the censor had been busted. Needless to say, this comment was also censored.

At 1:04, someone called Mark, who was not me, said:

“1:04 Comment From Mark
Poor coverage Gemma. I noticed you declined to release comments by people on higher income to the chat. Several of my friends said they commented and none were released by you.”

I replied as “Erick”, saying my comments were also censored. That comment was censored.

Every single comment I made under my normal name was censored. So was any comment I made criticising the censorship. Somehow, Mark’s comment got through, indicating that other people were being censored as well.

I think you should talk to your “external moderators”.

Erick says:

01:17pm | 10/07/11

Also, see the comment by Mark at 1:12.

Luke says:

01:47pm | 10/07/11

That happens regularly at the Drum. I’ve posted anti Government comments (mild) and can’t get them up. But when I’ve changed my name and sent pro Government comments they always go through. Have friends who have tried the same thing and have the same results. It’s also happened on the Australian website, amazingly, depending who the author is.

Outraged says:

01:51pm | 10/07/11

LOL Erick pwned Tory…where is her response? **Tumbleweed rolls by**

jf says:

01:54pm | 10/07/11

My comments aren’t being posted on the forum either.

Probably a coincidence. But the left don’t believe in coincidences so…

John says:

02:26pm | 10/07/11

Erick this place is not too bad, but news.com.au is the worst.
There is clear censorship going on there. I also believe they try make everything look 50/50 in order to try and control the debate. So if it’s 80/20, news.com.au will try to make it 50/50 in order distort public option and still make it look a like democracy. That’s my view on the mainstream media. The punch should consider voting on comments, similar like the UK websites. With this we can sense the political feel of the readers.

Flo says:

02:55pm | 10/07/11

Tory
Outraged is MarK
Can’t you tell?

Erick says:

03:44pm | 10/07/11

@Outraged - Tory is fine. Someone else was in charge of moderating the live chat. I’m sure all will be revealed in good time.

@Flo - One of the biggest wastes of time on Internet forums occurs when some people claim other people are sock puppets, for no good reason. Don’t be like that.

Rocksteady says:

04:28pm | 10/07/11

Erick and others - It is not some secretive left wing conspiracy.
I’ve been censored many times and can accept it, most recent was abusing someone who advocated running down all cyclists in their car. While they advocated vehicular murder, me attacking the person with some strong language was enough to get censored.
I like the fact that at least the punch informs you why they blocked you. You can easily change your post to have the same meaning without the cussing and violence.
When I look back at some of the I’ve comments made, I feel it’s quite fair, if you want an internet forum that denigrates into a shit slinging match you can find hundreds elsewhere.
If you want to add some reasonable discourse to complex issues, stop your complaining, be a gentleman and get your point across without all the abuse.
I think you’ll find more people will listen to you.

MarK says:

05:14pm | 10/07/11

No Flo. I just post under my name and my name only. Others can do whatever they like but i stand by what I say and don’t need to duck and weave. I also am happy to cop criticism for whatever I say unlike others that moderate and write on this blog.

Flo says:

05:26pm | 10/07/11

That’s really funny Erick
I thought one of the biggest waste of times on this internet forum was reading your posts.

Matt says:

05:42pm | 10/07/11

@Rocksteady, i have never seen a post from Erick that has not been polite, and certainly none that have been abusive (an amazing feat, considering how much flak he sometimes gets). Try to get your facts straight before attacking the man please.

Denial is a Disease says:

06:06pm | 10/07/11

@Erick and @MarK,

Were you the kids who pouted and stamped their feet on the footy field when a call went against you?

Sometimes in life you have to cop it sweet and not start whinging and appealing to higher powers to help you.

Like many others, I too have submitted posts that were not published. I accepted it as that’s the way it goes sometimes.

The entitlement you carry as white males in Australian society isn’t carrying over to this web site, and you are having a little sook about it.

You are really embarrassing yourselves.

Erick says:

11:33pm | 10/07/11

Oh, the irony. Someone calling himself “Denial is a Disease” is denying the rather obvious censorship of the live chat today.

Several commenters in various parts of this thread have mentioned the censorship. Tory has stated that the live chat was “moderated externally” - which I take to mean that the usual Punch team was not involved.

This illustrates the fact that The Punch has more permissive moderation than the average mainstream Australian site - which is a good thing. Hopefully, future editions of the live chat won’t have this problem.

Ben81 says:

01:15pm | 10/07/11

Yes let’s drive up the cost of Australian products and the cost of doing business here to “pay a debt” even though it will do nothing at all about climate change.  Talk about pathetic.

Lisa H. says:

01:26pm | 10/07/11

I like trees. Let us plant millions of trees, upon all our verges, upon high rise buldings, and in deep planter boxes outside office windows across the country.

Peterp says:

01:28pm | 10/07/11

@ Green Goblin
It’s patently obvious both from your screen name and your comments that you’ve been on the wacky tabbacky.
You poor deluded individual!
If this tax were to make one iota of difference to the environment, you would find the majority of rational thinkers would not be opposed to it.
The fact that it is a socialist redistribution of wealth scheme, disguised as an environmental initiative, which will do absolutely nothing for the environment seems to escape you and your looney “green” mates.

jf says:

01:48pm | 10/07/11

Green Goblin says:12:38pm | 10/07/11

Comments from a rich socialist.

Presumably you are talking about the Greens when you refer to selfish whiners.

After all, they campaign on a veneer of environmental conservation and yet reject two policy proposals to reduce carbon and accept one that excludes carbon but ticks a lot of boxes in their agenda of socialising Australia.

“all the majority of you can do is whine and moan.”

That’s right GG, the majority. The reason that the majority of us are “whining” about this tax is that it doesn’t do a single thing to reduce environmental damage whilst at the same time inflicting considerable economic damage.

You may be rich enough to not have to worry about impact of economic vandalism but plenty less fortunate than you are: I might well ask, who is the selfish one?

Mitchell says:

03:40pm | 10/07/11

Ben 81 -actually there are many countries who will charge a tariff on our exports if we don’t have a carbon tax.
We could easily charge a similar tariff, to protect trade exposed industries from imports
Do some research, you might be surprised.

AnthonyG says:

03:56pm | 10/07/11

Not one of my comments got through

Ben81 says:

05:57pm | 10/07/11

I have done my research Mitchell, where are these imaginary tariffs?

Hey look what more ‘research’ tells us -
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/labor-slams-carbon-tariffs/story-fn59niix-1226019386239

“TRADE Minister Craig Emerson has put business, unions and environmentalists on notice that the Gillard government will not allow its push to price carbon to open the door to a renewed wave of protectionism and trade barriers.

In a clear assault on the green lobby, Dr Emerson warned that Australia could crash into “depression” unless it rejected any moves to punish our trading partners with tariffs if they did not toughen their environmental and workplace laws.

Dr Emerson strongly rejected calls for “border tax adjustments” - or carbon tariffs - on goods imported from nations that did not put a price on carbon.”

Any more excuses?

J O'toole says:

10:33pm | 10/07/11

I’m gonna start cutting heaps of trees down to use as fire wood. I have 250 acres nobody is going to notice every 2nd red gum being felled. going to make a good dollar selling it to my mates. And is good excersize

MarK says:

01:48pm | 10/07/11

Yes.

You have it correct.

The stupid this scheme shows only is matched by the tweets that are disappeared off this web page….yes….I went there.

nossy says:

03:00pm | 10/07/11

@jb - you have summed it up in a nutshell jb! Scratching 500 of the biggest emitters last week was just plain crap. I think Gillard is now history and there is no-ne else to blame but herself. As one commentator on the ABC said last week “Is anyone out there still listening to her”? Not many I would suggest.

The Badger says:

02:13pm | 10/07/11

Maybe because it’s Roop and so is this website?

The lesson is to read more widely than News Ltd.

Rocksteady says:

06:28pm | 10/07/11

JB, it’ll be a bigger story when the other the other UK papers get found out for the same practices and everyone realises its the norm.
Plus you seem to forget that News corp. owns The Punch. How is it in their interest to stoke the fire?
Try reading about the controversy in a Murdoch paper and then in a Fairfax paper. You’ll get the gist soon enough.

sean says:

05:20pm | 10/07/11

Wrong Joan - on a per capita basis Australia is ranked 8th - the nations ahead include UAE, Kuwait, USA etc. Or should I say Gillard is wrong - now who would have thought that!

sean says:

05:22pm | 10/07/11

let’s hope so!

Coop says:

07:39pm | 10/07/11

Yep… The Dead Red has built her coffin.

It’s just Gangreen we need excorcised now

Incompetent Ops says:

04:09pm | 10/07/11

What planet are you on?
Their dismal performance is only surpassed by the reply to the budget which never mentioned the budget.
Perhaps they should get Turnbull to “wreck” it like he did the NBN. What a team of losers in opposition. Hope they enjoy sitting in opposition, they will be there for a very long time.

Joan says:

07:01pm | 10/07/11

Gillard wearing her whiter than white jacket and sporting her most phoney beguiling look,Gillard’s 6.35pm   national address looked and sounded like an advert for a cleaning product. No real PM to be seen anywhere. Abbott follow up… was a real knockout as he pounded Gillards Carbon Tax on everything., as he sold his Direction action plan .Time for an election, give people the choice, a vote.  What`s Gillard scared of? Ok-right -  Gillard`s scared to face of the people she lied to.this time last year.

PTom says:

03:25pm | 10/07/11

What got nothing else to talk May be you go talk to all those Liberal small government think tanks about Tony out-Abbout paid-parnetal leave or his Direct Action plan.

B says:

04:30pm | 10/07/11

@PTOM

?

How was that a response?  Or have anything to do with anything?

In the know says:

04:54pm | 10/07/11

PTOM how is this not related?

“In a socialist society a small group of people control the government and have the power to limit the rights of its citizens in order to benefit the state run industries. Democracy gives people a say in government and decisions are made with the consent of the people. Socialist economies do not listen to the voice of the people in making decisions concerning the economy. It is only a small group of people that make decisions that affect the economy.”

Take note of these lines: “Socialist economies do not listen to the voice of the people in making decisions concerning the economy. It is only a small group of people that make decisions that affect the economy.”

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/35575/why_is_socialism_incompatible_with.html

NicoleG says:

03:42pm | 10/07/11

Good lunch hey Badge?

B says:

03:47pm | 10/07/11

Democracy is dead in this country.

Slogan-ism and Propaganda have taken over the government.  How can you not see it?  It is in plain view.

c.conserv. says:

06:37pm | 10/07/11

Hope you weren’t listening to your red-headed leader just now.

Remember -  “I really don’t care…...” said The Badger.

What a fake -  you care, allright

The Badger says:

07:09pm | 10/07/11

What I said was “Badgers don’t give a shit.”
Mostly that was about conservatives like you and your comments.

For future reference, it is always a good idea to put quotes around a comment when attributing them to someone.
Also a link to where the quote was found is a good idea so interested observers can understand the context of the quote.

Don’t worry, work hard at this and you too can be taken seriously.

c.conserv. says:

07:40pm | 10/07/11

@The Badger.  Oooh - touchy!  Now, you know what you can do with your pompous “for future reference…...”, don’t you.
Perhaps it was another badger who commented that:  he didn’t vote for either, and he really didn’t care.  Hahahaha -  you think I care enough to “link”? 
Quotes? - who is interested, exactly?

Send off another ‘conservative pigs’ comment -  this should calm your agitation…......away you go

Ex Liberal says:

05:22pm | 10/07/11

I for one am very happy that real action is being taken by the Australian government and proud that we will be seen as leaders in addressing Anthropogenic Climate Change
I for one am voting Labor at the next election… +1 vote
I love this voter offset mechanism.

Sarah says:

04:56pm | 11/07/11

@ex Labor - I did my sums this morning and I too, get $3.00 back from the government and fork out 950 per year - plus I have greywater system, a rainwater tank and of course have the whole energy efficient fixtures - have quick showers, turn everything off at the powerpoint, recycle madly - yada yada - I do a hell of a lot - plus of course, pay a hell of a lot of tax. What thanks do I get? 3 lousy dollars. Thank-You Gillard - I too was an ex-Labour supporter.. I’ve already requested my membership forms for the Liberals

NicoleG says:

05:26pm | 10/07/11

Andrew, all the Labor and Green fans do believe this. Dumber than dog shit!

BTW, I just saw the three stooges on the TV, Brown, Milne and SHY. Jesus are they all bent?

Jade says:

05:33pm | 10/07/11

Tree’s are to simple an answer and doesn’t create revenue for a broke government either, foolya gillard and comrade brown won’t go for that.

Diamantina Dick says:

05:46pm | 10/07/11

Seek help

earl says:

05:48pm | 10/07/11

Have you forgotten what the carbon tax is about? Isnt it about reducing carbon dioxide emissions?

Julia herself admits that her so called superior plan requires purchasing of permits from overseas where there is no oversight, e.g. animal cruelty in indonesia, sham trading of carbon credits in China and European ETS. In a word CARBON LEAKAGE. So just because of her bribes to the lowest income australians, she hopes to get away with squeezing the top 10% income earners in australia for more tax while not reducing GLOBAL carbon dioxide emissions 1 bit.

Words fail me in describing the stupidity of people who cant see through this horrendous wealth redistribution tax.

AnthonG says:

06:13pm | 10/07/11

Lesley do the world a favor and make an appointment with Dr Philip Nitschke

Martin Hopes says:

07:07pm | 10/07/11

@ lesley laurel - your comment is by far the most sensible of the day…the responses to it from the deniers who just blindly follow Abbott prove that, well done.

c.conserv. says:

07:08pm | 10/07/11

@Diamantina Dick,  You get permission for those two words?

Diamantina Dick says:

08:17pm | 10/07/11

The is almost nothing in the comment that is not contestable but the part I really liked was how “new rhetoric” was some kind of an achievement!

The most sensible thing I heard was from Oakshot who opposed inducing fuel because regions had no alternative modes and suggested expanding rail. Direct action!

nossy says:

06:33pm | 10/07/11

@AnthonyG - the Cuckoo Dance is right Anthony - meanwhile China, Russia, India and Co continue to pollute unabated - in fact China by 2020 will emit over double the volume of Greenhouse gases it did in 2005 - 10.1 BILLION tonnes in fact. Yes lets do the Cuckoo dance Ms Gillard - fancy striking out 500 of the biggest polluters just days before announcing the Carbon Tax - “cuckoo” !

MargD says:

10:37pm | 10/07/11

OMG that’s sooooo funny AnthonyG, she even has dyed red hair!!!!!
hahahahaha

Matt says:

08:26am | 11/07/11

nossy, India has had a price on carbon since last year, China is putting a price on carbon this year and has already signed it’s top 1000 energy consumers…

MarK says:

11:29pm | 10/07/11

And so what if we cut them by 5%.

It will not make one iota of difference to the temperature of the world or to the air quality in Aystralia.

It is a futile and pointless exercise.

Professor Richard Lindzen, one of the worlds leading climate scientists says this.

We are supposed to listen to the scientists. Listen to him.

Green Goblin says:

07:15pm | 10/07/11

@ jb - I thought exactly the same thing about Abbott, he himself said not to believe what he says unless it’s written down. Are you really that brainwashed? Think for yourself man.

LC says:

08:14pm | 10/07/11

And if one thinks on their own, and comes to the exact opposite conclusion to you? Then what?

Grim says:

08:03pm | 10/07/11

YOU have income in excess of 210,000 dollars.
You are exactly the sort of person who should be paying.

Diamantina Dick says:

08:31pm | 10/07/11

And why is that Grim?

holly says:

08:50pm | 10/07/11

whys that grim??? because the reaper bothered to get off his/her bum and earn a living,  he and other high income earners deserve to pay, while you bludgers reap the benefits, how un australian no one should be worse off under this carbon TAX.  the world owes you hey mate,your a joke.

Skull says:

07:47am | 11/07/11

Yes Grim, tell us why a person who works their arse off, deserves to be the person paying more, whilst you lie on the couch, smoke your bong and live off welfare.

Cerberus says:

11:54pm | 20/07/11

yeah, why bong when coke is heaps better.

LC says:

12:39pm | 13/10/11

Yeah Grim..right…just the rich should pay to fix climate change. Can I assume you don’t use any modes of transport other than push-bikes and walking, or own a house with electricity unless it comes from 100% green sources, and have everything you buy 100% carbon offset? If not, you are part of the problem. And thus yes, you should damn well pay too.

What happened to the “we’re all in this together” attitude?

stephen says:

08:56pm | 10/07/11

She’s not patronizing anyone. She’s nervous, under attack from all and sundry, mostly from those who should be her friend.
She, now, doesn’t know who her friends are and this might make The Greens the only onside team in town, and that, my friends, will be the death of us all.

Ben81 says:

10:09pm | 10/07/11

Looks like someone’s flustered and resorting to the “I’m above all of you” thing.  Why is it that you guys can never help but contradict yourselves and insult the ‘‘other side’ anyway?

c.conserv. says:

10:19pm | 10/07/11

@Ilusion of choice…...  Illusions, delusions.
Another rarity who doesn’t care about the tax.
The merits are:  Revenue, Revenue, Revenue

Is “sucks”  still coolspeak?
The tone has been lowered, you feel?

Aussie Battler says:

10:38pm | 10/07/11

James in Footscray - I’m no scientist, but as far as the other countries copying us - Doubt it will happen.  From what I understand, most who have some type of Carbon Price/ETS are winding it back to either get rid of it or reduce it’s impact. They have recognised the damage it is causing to their economies?.  Australia will be the only country to have a Carbon Price/ETS across the board, no other country has one at this time.  Those that do have one have a much lower price than ours, which is partly causing a lot of concern amongst people everywhere.
Would we adapt ? -  Humanity is pretty adaptable, so IF there was some temp or CO2 rise, I am sure we would adapt.  As history shows, the Temp around the globe was different hundreds or more years ago and humanity adapted, so I am sure we would again.

Robert Smissen of country SA says:

12:27am | 11/07/11

Hey Jimmy! ! Most other countries are going the other way, oh & about 80% of Oz thinks you & Ghoulia are nuts! ! !

Shane From Melbourne says:

11:41pm | 10/07/11

Hate to tell you this but the federal government has been f**king over the single and childless couples for decades. Ever since little Johnny Howard built up the middle class family welfare state and Kevin Rudd and Julia Gillard continued it. The only difference is the Liberals distribute your taxpayer dollar to the middle class and upper class family and Labor distributes it to the lower class family. As a single you are going to get screwed no matter who is in power

Luke says:

11:08am | 11/07/11

I agree Neil, i’m not single, but combined my partner and i earn over $200k.  I am 31, she is 28, we currently paying off 3 mortgages, rent 2 out and trying to pay for our wedding in a few months.  I am not crying poor at all, but when everything you earn seems to get taken in tax, whats the point of going to uni, studying, working hard, and grinding out a career?  Might as well do as i wished (not work and surf all day!!) and get a low paying job, rent a house and get subsidised by whatever government is in power.  The thing that gets me though, is that i can see the benefits of income tax, rates etc for the greater community, but i cannot see benefit for the environment from this tax.

Steve says:

02:23pm | 11/07/11

Luke. I am thinking you need to restructure your finances. You should be getting the negative gearing benefits to reduce your tax so I don’t know why you have the perception that you are paying a lot of tax.

Restructure your loans so you pay interest only on the investment properties. This will free cash to accelerate the principal repayments on the owner occupied loan.

If you are really feeling the pinch it may be that you simply have too much debt for your incomes to support rather tahn too much tax. Could that be right?

Luke says:

04:09pm | 11/07/11

Thanks Steve, currently do have loans on investment only.  I probably didn’t word my earlier comment correctly - its not that i am feeling the pinch.  It’s not the perception that i am paying alot of tax, its that you do what you can to get ahead and all you ever hear is how the government is planning on taking tax from people who earn good salaries because they can afford it, without (or maybe with) thinking of the consequences along the chain.

DaS Energy says:

05:09am | 16/07/11

Frank,
Sorry cobber, AEC requires that she have put it in print before they can act.  But she was to clever for that. Choosing instead the media carry her electioneering.