Grew here, flew here… what matters is what you DO here

Helen says:

06:32am | 25/01/11

Eric, how was that even remotely close to Aussie-bashing? Dickhead-bashing, boofhead-bashing, idiot-thug-bashing, sure. But Aussie-bashing?  Don’t lump us all in with the tossers Tin was talking about.

Shane says:

06:55am | 25/01/11

Oh Eric, I am so disappointed in you. How could you not manage to make some tragic, middle aged bitter bloke connection to how bashing Aussies is a symptom of the underlying anti-male bias flourishing in Australia?

James1 says:

07:39am | 25/01/11

If Aussies engage in that type of behaviour, then I guess its time to go back to Ireland for me, as I will never be an Aussie.

Tubesteak says:

07:54am | 25/01/11

It’s not Aussie-bashing.

It’s bashing the ignorant moronic bogan yobbos that are destroying this country.

Many people, whether migrant or not, make a valuable contribution to this country and want to improve it.

Many more people make little contribution, vote for politicians based on what hand-outs will favour them, consume too much pointless crap, live in economically irresponsible manners and behave in ways that would make a cockney prostitute blush.

BJ says:

08:01am | 25/01/11

@Shane. Lol love seeing Eric put back into his box. Thanks Shane. Oh and Eric you forgot to work one of your usual misogynistic cracks in as well. Must be losing your touch.

Patriot of the year says:

08:02am | 25/01/11

Of course it’s Australia bashing. Who would wait until their child’s brithday to rattle off a list of everything they hate about them? Not someone who loved their child.

“Son, it’s your birthday tomorrow and I love you, but there are some things I don’t love about you. You never do your homework. You’re lazy, & generally unattractive. Sometimes I’m envious of other parents’ children. You’re also a bigot. Ultimately, I wish you were less crap. Happy birthday!”

Jim says:

08:29am | 25/01/11

In defense of Eric…you’d have to be blind not to see the amount of self-flagellation the media puts on us on Australia Day. It’s been that way for a few years now.
You watch…ACA will probably run a piece on ‘bogan’ behaviour, no doubt pulling out the juiciest footage from Cronulla. Another mob will chase down that silly Shiek in Sydney for his poisonous views. A news crew will be parked in Cronulla just waiting for something. There will be some aboriginal elder cornered and interviewed. There will be reporters going through Lakemba asking people what they think….it’s disgraceful.
Here in The Punch today we have two stories with sensationalised headlines saying what they hate about Australia Day.
Even some of the comments that will come out here - people will say they are ashamed to be Australian, people will exclaim that all Australians (excepot themselves of course) are redneck racists. There’s already the Labor goons in here blaming everything on Abbott….give us a break!

the aussie basher says:

09:18am | 25/01/11

eric I agree with you about the pre aussie day round of aussie bashing! How dare decent real Australians have a go at feral bogans with their uneducated views of Australian. Hey Eric turn on your tv Jerry Springer is on!!!!!

Jake says:

10:42am | 25/01/11

BJ,

Try contributing to the topic instead of petty attack on a contributor.  All this demonstrates is lack of ability to contribute intelligently to the debate.

Chris L says:

12:31pm | 25/01/11

Eric, let me preface this by saying I often agree (at least partially) with the points you make, but not this time.

Not every Aussie dresses in a flag cape and tells non-white people to “Fuck off, we’re full!”. I don’t think even the majority of Aussies engage in this behaviour. Therefore this article was not aimed at Aussies in general, just the ones that try to intimidate immigrants, tourists and Aussies that aren’t white and make us look like a country of racist bogans.

If any reader is feeling villified by this article it might be a good opportunity to review how you act toward others and how it makes them feel.

facepalm says:

01:36pm | 25/01/11

This article hit a little too close to home, Eric? Oh, and I especially love your invocation of one of the biggest oxymorons in existence today (Australian culture).

The title of this particular article really struck a chord with me. Having prejudices against people on the basis of geography is just as moronic as prejudices based on skin colour, or religion for that matter. Some people see nationalism and patriotism (words which are interchangeable as far as I’m concerned) as ideas to espouse with great pride. Personally, I regard them as social diseases. The sooner we as a whole (by which I mean the entire world) cure ourselves of such poisonous ideas, the better off we’ll be.

The Real Eric says:

07:41pm | 25/01/11

Eric, Please tell us how you manage to get up so early every day. I wish I could sparkle at 5 O’clock in the morning, like you.

James Milton says:

08:09pm | 25/01/11

“Oh, and I especially love your invocation of one of the biggest oxymorons in existence today (Australian culture).”

See, that right there is a perfect example of Australia bashing. Go and suggest that another country’s culture is an oxymoron and you’ll be called a racist. As is, you’re just an ignorant fool.

Thomas says:

08:45pm | 25/01/11

The Real Eric,

It’s due to a word little know to most Australians:

Effort!

The Real Eric says:

09:39pm | 25/01/11

Thomas, thank you. Is it really effort or just the ramblings of a jaded night shift misanthropist? Secretly, I actually suspect that there is actually no such real person as Eric. Ya with me?

Vicki PS says:

09:46pm | 25/01/11

Eric, you must sit awake and twitching every night, hunched over your PC, waiting for the very second that the first of the new day’s Punch articles pop up.  Such tenacity and dedication!  Such heroism in pursuit of your delu…sorry, dream.  Mate, you’re just the kind of bloke the Australia Day Committee loves to hold up high as an inspiration to all of us.  You’re at least as totally useless as Jessica Watson, but you haven’t got a vagina.  You’ve got it all, mate!  Eric, YOU should be our Australian of the Year!

The Real Eric says:

10:50pm | 25/01/11

Vick PS. Lovely to read your stimulating insights. Do you think Eric is a phantom?

VickiPS says:

12:10am | 26/01/11

@The Real Eric:  A phantom? No.  THE Phantom?  Possibly.  My strongest suspicion is that Eric spent so long contemplating his fundament that he succumbed to the vortex and thrust his head so far into the Brown Hole that his consciousness now resides permanently in one of the infinity of alternative Earths (or perhaps roams restlessly across them), while his now-useless male meaty bits are left to dangle pathetically in our own continuum.  Sad, really.

facepalm says:

02:09am | 26/01/11

Let me guess James, I’m “un-Australian” (bugger me with a rake, I hate that term) for being a realist? If I’m such an “ignorant fool,” then educate me. Or am I not worth the effort in your judgment? Or maybe you’re just defensive because what I said (glib as it was) rings slightly true?

Oh, and how nice of you to completely ignore the more salient points of my post.

Jacko says:

03:00pm | 26/01/11

“For almost 20 years, I told him, my parents had been supporting these clowns through their taxes.”

Those of us formed here don’t see the place in terms of income and money. People with foreign ethics very rarely get that. This bloke looks no different.

Jazz says:

03:54pm | 26/01/11

There are so many nasty lines circuling around such as, “We grew here, you flew here..” how about the other one, “we came in planes, you came in chains”

They all hurt, so lets just all grow up and be Australian = multicultural people who loves and resides in this country!

Bitten says:

06:36pm | 26/01/11

Ultimately, I wish you were less crap!

I love this, I may use this in future, it’s like a parental haiku.

TChong says:

06:39am | 25/01/11

So , one of “them"hit a life guard - and that is enough of an excuse to attack any of “them” in return ?
Maybe the white anglo Aussies arrested were guilty of assault- the vigilante loons filmed carrying out the attacks on the train were shown physically attacking people.
Do you suppose that had anything to do with the arrests?

Jim says:

06:46am | 25/01/11

Actually it was closer to a dozen of them on the lifeguard….cowardice in numbers. But I get your gist - be prepared to be bombarded by bleeding heart replies S.L!

S.L says:

07:17am | 25/01/11

Thanks Jim it doesn’t worry me. I’m only going on the facts. We can mentioned what the Lakemba Boys did to the Maroubra CBD after dark after all the racist Aussies went home but why should I? We all know what happened, even the writers that take me to task here. Even when I have spoken of the white anglo retaliators in unflatering terms.

Tom says:

09:06am | 25/01/11

Funny why so many people want to come to Australia? You would think that they would by-pass our vile racist culture and go somewhere else? I wonder what it is about our culture that makes Australia so attractive? After all, we are vile racists ....

ZSRenn says:

10:15am | 25/01/11

@S.L. and Jim
The police reports stated the Lebanese men had been on the beach all day as is their right without incident but later an argument between the lifesavers and the Lebanese men broke out with some pushing and shoving but one lifesaver fell hitting his head. Two against eight but it was the two that approached the eight. If you’re going to play with fire you’re going to get burned. The media reported falsely that masses of Middle Eastern men then converged on the beach and called for a show of force by the Australian people against this violence by the Lebanese.

Three things:
a) If this had been a fight between two groups of good old white boys one from Cronulla and the others from Manly and one got hurt it wouldn’t even make the news.

b) Why has the members of the media never been brought to account for their roles in these action.

c) Please stop listening to urban legends and read more than surf magazines for your up to date news.

Jade says:

10:28am | 25/01/11

S.L you are forgetting it not racist when it is against a white person.  People seem to forget the reason that the riots started.  And the truth is that people had had enough of the Ethnic gangs in the area.  But of course, evil white man will always get the blame and the rest are just victims.

me my mo says:

06:57pm | 25/01/11

It was inaction of the authorities for some time that led the rise in tensions. The life guard being king hit wasn’t the first incident, it was just the one that led to the riots - similar in manner to the famous Rodney King incident in the US. The collective reaction was deplorable, but simply dismissing the moment as a bunch of racist white people getting angry - as often people referring to it do - does no one any favours.

ZSRenn says:

09:54am | 25/01/11

As a descendant of Convicts I really do take it as insulting to call Australia Day- Invasion day. You give these soon to be thousands of people who died building roads, schools, hospitals etc no credit. They did not come as an army but were dragged here in conditions worse than those suffered by the Africans taken to the Americas. I like to celebrate Australia Day and each year remember the trials that my ancestors went thru to get here.

I find it a fitting day to celebrate otherwise we would forget the trials of these men and women. I also remember living in Cooma and the huge multiculturalism of the town with the Snowy scheme being built by fellow Australians from all over the world. This was long before the term multiculturalism had ever been used in common speech.

As a 9th generation Australian and a descendant of Convicts I am appalled at the racist yobbo element that is trickling into our society. I thank David Koch and Jason (Son of Koch ) Tin for their articles today.

Khrystene says:

10:21am | 25/01/11

@ZSRenn I’m sure the spirit of the many many Aboriginal tribes - families, elders, children and their living decendents take umbrage at your ‘celebration’, arguably ONE OF the largest and most uncalled for massacres of a people in human history.

Take your self pity somewhere else. The Aboriginal people never forced you to come here.

JB says:

10:40am | 25/01/11

you have to admit, it would be good if we pimped up our anthem a bit. It would be awesome if it was always performed like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jboD7hvRBMk
As performed by Deborah Cheetham at the 2009 Bushfire Memorial

Levi says:

10:45am | 25/01/11

Well leave the country Khrystene. Whites made this country what it is today, if you don’t like it than just leave, seriously.

Tim says:

10:46am | 25/01/11

Khrystene,
“arguably ONE OF the largest and most uncalled for massacres of a people in human history.”

This comment would be laughable if I didn’t think you were serious. Go and read a history book.

ZSRenn says:

11:00am | 25/01/11

Correct Khrystene for point 1.

It was the English that forced my ancestors to come here.

Incorrect for point 2
I hold no guilt for the suffering the English (Not Australian) police inflicted on the Aboriginal people as at the time they were killing off thousands of their own. 

Incorrect for point 3
I think it is a lie saying it was one of largest massacres in human history. How many Aboriginals lived in Sydney Cove at the time do you think 4 or 5 million I don’t think so. More like 100’s I do not condone this killing and most died from Syphilus but think the urban myths as to the size of the massacre may be a little exaggerated.

Incorrect point 4
I was trying to show pride in my Convict heritage and the wish to celebrate this pride on Australia day. I am sorry if my writing is so bad it appeared as self pity.

Jade says:

11:01am | 25/01/11

Justin… all those things will be on the agenda by the end of the week…

BK says:

11:47am | 25/01/11

Khrystene

The first Aborigines completely wiped out their predecesors (the Murrians and Negritoes) everywhere, except far north Queensland and Tasmania.

Sherekahn says:

12:16pm | 25/01/11

Our National flag should be the Indigenous flag superimposed by our present flag.  It would register our heritage more correctly.
Anyway, ‘pommies’ rule yeah?
Tony Abbot was a ‘pom,’ Julia Gillard was a Welsh ‘pom.’
Just remember:  The first president must be a ‘pom!’

Richard says:

02:06pm | 25/01/11

I do not find anything particularly immoral about the “invasion” of Australia by my anglo-saxon ancestors. I mean really, it was inevitable, but not immoral.

To put it into historical context: the Spanish and Portuguese had been conquistador-ing around South America/Africa/India etc. for centuries before-hand: raping, pillaging and enslaving all before them. Then Britain came along and by 1788 was the most Imperialist, expansionist, technologically advanced civilisation the world had ever seen (not to mention quite morally enlightened compared to what had prevailed beforehand).

And then they came to Australia.

Now what do you think would be the likely outcome of an encounter between Pax Brittanica in all its sun-never-setting glory and an aboriginal culture which had managed to completely bypass such technological advancements as the wheel, crop cultivation, animal husbandry, the bronze age, etc.?

Of course the Aborigines were swept aside, considering the historical context, how could it have been any different? I don’t think we should glorify backwards and primitive cultures in a way renders our own advancement and achievements immoral. Western civilisation and all of the scientific development that goes with it is mankind’s greatest accomplishment, please do not denigrate it with your hand-wringing over events that you are taking out of their historical context.

James Milton says:

08:12pm | 25/01/11

@Khrystene: you mean the Aboriginals who were dying at 45 and eating each other when the evil whites brought them civilisation?

TChong says:

07:07am | 25/01/11

So, they ( the assailants)  were charged with something?
The courts then found whatever evidence was produced was insufficient for a conviction?
Maybe the “courts"were relying on our legal system that sees any accused person innocent unless PROVEN otherwise. - a great Aussie tradition.

HappyCynic says:

07:52am | 25/01/11

@Mayday

The point of your story is no different to Tin’s and that is that a small minority of wankers ruin the reputation of the larger (and largely silent) majority. 

I guarantee this rule applies to every bogan, middle eastern, jewish, asian, italian, greek, french, african, brazilian, spanish, south american, canadian, swedish, swiss, dutch, irish, english, german, russian, czech, austrian, hungarian, indian, ukranian and american Australian (if I missed any don’t worry these are just the Aussies I know, the others certainly aren’t exempt). 

I also guarantee that the problem of wankers is no higher in one ethnicity than another, all other things being equal (socio-economic status, employment status, education etc).

Mayday says:

07:59am | 25/01/11

Yes T Chong they were charged with multiple bashing charges and got off because the people bashed had been drinking therefore their testimony would be worth zilch!  Apparently this is standard practice.

The victims all provided the same description of the two “men” whose targets were all people on their own, my son had just walked out of the club on his own to take a phone call.  Cowards and thieves.

Jim says:

08:03am | 25/01/11

@TChong - it seems it’s also becoming an Aussie tradition to be an arse, assault people then take advantage of our embarrassingly soft judicial system and bleeding heart MSM.

TChong says:

08:12am | 25/01/11

Mayday, not wishing to pick a fight, or snarl at you, or your son,
BUT…,If the prosecution case failed , due to the intoxication of the witnesses…?
Would you like to be convicted of something, where the evidence involves people too drunk to make a positive identification ?
these guys may have been guilty, equally they may have been innocent,thats why proof (or admission) beyond reasonable doubt is required.

HT says:

12:27pm | 25/01/11

How come it’s always noteable when someone commits a crime and is of “middle Eastern” appearance.. like in a news article or when people are discussing it in general.. However, whenever they are talking about a crime committed by a white person it was just “that guy” or “that girl”?

Chris L says:

12:43pm | 25/01/11

I think what TChong is trying to say, and that others might not be considering, is that the two Lebanese men picked up by the police may not have been the two Lebanese men that attacked Mayday’s son.

Sadly there are always plenty of thugs and idiots that escape punishment for their crimes through lack of proof, and not all of them are immigrants, but as frustrating and wrong as this is it is preferable to our society punishing innocent people.

The Cricket says:

02:06pm | 25/01/11

Why am I not susprised T-Chong leaps in to defend those accused of assault?
I bet he wouldn’t be doing so if they were white.

TChong says:

03:31pm | 25/01/11

The cricket: why say that ?. i think any one accused of any crime shuld be presumed innocent until proven otherwise - a consistant stand in all my posts concerning law- en- order issues.
So why accuse me of any bias. Proof?
Put up , or shut up.

Carz says:

07:30am | 25/01/11

Our language??? You mean the English that was brought here by the original white immigrants, as opposed to the many and varied languages of the Aboriginals who beat the rest of us here by centuries?

Jim says:

07:41am | 25/01/11

It’s an expression Carz…here’s your violin, can you hear me playing for you?

hugh says:

07:49am | 25/01/11

@ Carz:
“...who beat the rest of us here by centuries? “

What bloody school did you go to??
Centuries = hundreds of years

They were here around 40,000 years ago. So - decades would be a more apt description

Carz says:

08:09am | 25/01/11

@ hugh. Ummm when I went to school a century was 100 years, which is a lot more than a decade which is ten. Perhaps I should have said millenia (millenium = 1000 years) . Either way it is still correct.

HappyCynic says:

08:14am | 25/01/11

@Jim

How are you drowning in “PC bullsh*t”?  How does “PC bullsh*t” impact on your life?  Is it really so hard to treat people with the respect you’re given?  I’d like concrete examples of how your life is negatively affected by respecting other ethnicities.  I bet you don’t have a single one except maybe having to think before you speak (thinking can hurt small minds)

Bruce Wayne says:

08:18am | 25/01/11

Carz, grow up. Regardless of who was here first, English is the official language of Australia. If your point was so important to make, why did you not also supply a translation in Wiradjuri, or another one of the many and varied languages of our Indigenous Australians?
Jim is simply saying that Australians will readily accept immigrants who will readily contribute to our great land in a positive manner. People such as the Muslim leader who made the comment that Jim speaks of deserve to be kicked out. His followers would do well to see what damage he does to their image and be rid of him.

Carter says:

08:20am | 25/01/11

@hugh

I hope you’re not being serious…

40,000 years is 400 centuries, and 4000 decades… So decades would be as accurate, but less apt.

Carter says:

08:28am | 25/01/11

@Jim

Okay, sentence by sentence.

Multiculturalism forced on us? Nope, MOST of us are happy to enjoy the positives of multiculturalism (like Italian restaurants, going to a Baseball game (yes, America is a different culture), having fun at a mates Indian wedding), just like many people who have come hear enjoy most aspects of our culture.

Ethnic gangs? Like Aussie bogan gangs then?

Claim BS things like Aussie girls deserve to be raped? First, Sheik Hilali’s comments were absolutely unforgivable and insensitive, but have you actually read them yourself, or are you just relying on the media to dumb it down for you? What he actually said was that in comparison to a girl in a Niqab, Hajib or Burqa, a girl in a bikini presents a temptation to some men. I defy you to claim otherwise.

After the events in Cronulla a few years ago, Australia Day has become a day where the average Aussie feels like he can get up and be proud, and try to hang on to the last vestiges of Aussie larrikinism? Does that include beating up Cops and Ambos? Because both of those happened that day too.

Sure, it brings out the bogans and people who can’t express their love for this country in ways that won’t offend any one of the 1001 easily offended minorities out there…? I’m not easily offended, but when the world sees a bunch of drunk blokes beating up one Lebanese guy, I’m ashamed, not offended.

Let us have our BBQ lamb chops and a few beers… I’ll be enjoying a lamb chop and (probably more than one) beer too, but I won’t feel the need to call all immigrants illegal.

Thursday it’ll be back to work to support the bludgers? There are more “Aussies” on the dole than immigrants. Have a look at the ABS statistics before you make yourself look any more like a prize idiot.

Jim says:

09:39am | 25/01/11

Wow Carter…what a superior human being you must be! A real liive bleeding heart apologist! In fact I met one of your breed yesterday while minding my own business and ducking into Coles to grab some milk. Some feral looking old lady who smelled rather bad came up to me and, mistaking my obvious aboriginal heritage as something that needed patronising, started to ‘sympathise’ with me on something the latte set refer to as ‘Invasion Day’. I listened to her rant politely then told her I really didn’t care, it’s Australia Day and I’m Aussie. She got most upset and started screeching about how misinformed I was! It set me up in a foul mood for the rest of the week.

I’m not talking about the Italian and Greek festivals, or the Asian influences which most Aussies love, it’s the way we’re forced to change our own lifestyle and traditions to accomodate the latest waves of immigration. You know….ooops, we can’t have a nativity scene in the shopping centre, it may offend someone! We can’t put up a Christmas tree at school, it may offend someone! We can’t expect 2nd and 3rd generation Australians to start speaking English now…not when they’ve been speaking Arabic for so long; let’s set up translator services so they can feel at home!

And the bunch of bogans bashing a single lebanese man??? You mean the idiot who was taunting a bunch of drunks with comments like “I’ll blow all you c*nts up”? Or were you confused with what happened that night when carloads of Lakemba’s finest would pick out people wlaking down the street, then run away? I know what would happen if I turned up at a Muslim rally taunting them…and I’d deserve it for being stupid.

And it’s amazing how you can infer my use of the word ‘bludgers’ as being anything more than that - wow.

Carter says:

10:09am | 25/01/11

Jim

I actually don’t feel superior at all, sometimes quite the opposite. And I’m not sure I have a bleeding heart in any circumstance, nor do I think I apologised for anything in my comment. But you’re need to generalise me is interesting. I’ve never felt the need to approach one of my Indigenous friends and talk about “Invasion Day”. It’s Australia Day, and that includes people whose ancestors lived here before 1788 as well as those who came to Australia last year.

I have lived here my entire life and have never felt the need to change who I am to accommodate someone from another culture. I have no doubt that some idiots want to ban nativity scenes and Easter eggs, but that’s not solely confined to “ethnic minorities”, and ranting against a group of people (of any race or culture) isn’t going to build acceptance for the people who come to this country and do adopt our agreed way of life.

And for your point on language, have you ever tried to learn a language other than English and be fluent enough to speak it every day and in every situation, including high stress situations such as a town evacuation for flooding (I work in emergency management and know the value of multi-language services)? It’s incredibly difficult to learn a new language, particularly when you’re older, and often it’s not a case of not wanting to learn, but being unable. And yes, I recognise that there are people who don’t want to learn.

No, I was referring to the one Lebanese man being beaten up next to a car in that, now infamous, image. Or the man on a train who needed three cops to get him out of there. I’m not confused about any of it, I was working in the Police Coordination Centre in Sydney that day. I’m also aware of the carloads of idiots, like the idiots who beat up the lifeguard that set off the riots. But you cannot excuse the idiots, many of whom were drunk, who rioted. They may have had an excuse to, but not a reason. No one has a reason to do that, especially to innocent people, like the ones I just mentioned.

I also note that you didn’t address the idiots who beat up cops and ambos. Perhaps you can be an apologist for them? Perhaps the cops or ambos did something to deserve it. Like going to the aid of someone being beaten (potentially to death)?

As for the term bludgers, I’d be interested to know how you define it. To most people, I would argue that it means someone who lives off others or doesn’t put in his (or her) fair share. In which case, my comment that there are more “Aussie” bludgers than any others is probably still true.

Ted says:

10:16am | 25/01/11

Carz, two minor problems. Firstly the aboriginals are not the original inhabitants. It has been proven that there was at least two waves of human inhabitants before them. Secondly, their so called language had over a thousand derivations AND none of them were ever written. Thus it is a pointless exercise to speak aboriginal because you need to select a derivation and you must also realise that only an English derivation of the original language due to the fact the English word structure has be used to construct a written version of the aboriginal languages. On that point, it is much like aboriginal painting that is actually a combination of white man’s (woman’s) finger painting and paints (provided/taught to aboriginals) with the simplistic aboriginal depictions of their surroundings.

Jim says:

10:20am | 25/01/11

People who show any violence towards police and ambos should be locked away for 10 years minimum…I’ve always said that. It’s highlighted by yesterdays award to a paralysed cop. It was deemed to be worth $3.3M, but the two people who did it to him were acquitted…go figure.

As to the rest of your condescending waffle…I won’t argue with idiots. Enjoy your day, good sir.

Carter says:

10:47am | 25/01/11

Jim,

On cops and ambos, it’s good to know we agree on that at least.

However, I feel sorry for you when you misinterpret tolerance and understanding for innocent people for “condescneding waffle”. Perhaps if you showed as much understanding towards the innocent people caught up in ugly race hate as you do towards the brief lip service you paid to cops and ambos, you might come accross as a more understanding human being.

Have a great Australia Day,

Carter

Miscreant says:

12:13pm | 25/01/11

6.45: Wake up
6:51: Pen ranting, cliche-ridden response to article I haven’t bothered to read
6:54: Revise, employing more generalisations, concentrating on the thin-skinnedness of “minorities”
Rest of day: Demonstrate own remarkable thin-skinnedness in response to calm, rational replies

I love it when bigots complain about the country being taken over by whingers via the most irrational, lazily-considered whinges imaginable.

hugh says:

01:09pm | 25/01/11

dude - seriously

40,000 years = lotsa decades
Look at this wikipedia link below (i know its often incorrect - but at least doesnt support the fact that indigenous aussies got here only 100 years before the poms)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigenous_Australians

Why must i spell out my own jokes??

Carter says:

02:31pm | 25/01/11

@Hugh, because there’s no sarcasm font.

Mayday says:

08:10am | 25/01/11

If you new your history you would find it was the Labor Party which brought in the White Australia Policy and its support ” was contingent upon restricting non-white immigration, reflecting the attitudes of the Australian Worker’s Union.”

Menzies Liberals also backed the policy through a “philosophical principles” whereas the Labor Party actually had a written platform on the subject.
Immigration Nation SBS was on the other night and it reminded us it Gough Whitlam who promised to change the policy but on getting into government did not act.

His rational when the Vietnamese boat people started arriving was because they were escaping a communist regime they would not vote Labor.

Malcolm Fraser’s Liberal Government removed the offensive policy.

nossy says:

10:34am | 25/01/11

@Mayday - its 2011 fella - check your calender - we arnt still in the 1930’s !  hahahah

James1 says:

01:07pm | 25/01/11

It was not the ALP Mayday.  It was Edmund Barton who introduced the legislation into the Australian Parliament, and from memory he was part of the Protectionist Party.  He was never a member of the Labor Party, and the Protectionists were the ALP’s main opposition at the time.

Like you say, it helps to know your history.

Ben81 says:

02:09pm | 25/01/11

Nossy you should at least make a token effort to understand issues you pretend to care about. 

“The Labor Party takes a much more compassionate view thank god !”

Ah yes, taking in the same amount of asylum seekers but handing over part of the intake to people smugglers and ending up with over 6000 people in immigration detention instead of just a few hundred is much more “compassionate” in your little world isn’t it.  Oh that silly redneck Abbott, must be his fault!

Mayday says:

04:47pm | 25/01/11

James 1 Correct but they needed and got the support of the ALP -

“The government following Federation in 1901 was formed by the Protectionist Party with the support of the Australian Labor Party. The support of the Labor Party was contingent upon restricting non-white immigration, reflecting the attitudes of the Australian Worker’s Union and other labour organisations at the time, upon whose support the Labor Party was founded.”

stephen says:

01:25am | 26/01/11

You’re very opinionated Mayday, and your family is quite unfortunate, (what with bashings, and all).
By the way, that SBS show is bullshit and its distortions are very damaging to Multiculturalism.
The facts are wrong and so is the intent.
Very bad blood.

julie in Bris says:

08:07am | 25/01/11

@paul - I so agree. Have a happy Australia Day.

Carz says:

08:11am | 25/01/11

So don’t read them. Problem solved.

Ed says:

10:26am | 25/01/11

Happy Australia Day to all!

Karlou says:

01:16pm | 26/01/11

Steve,

You are a true Australian, and if more people had your perspective and attitude and love for this country Australia would be an even better place to live.  It was so refreshing to read your positive comment.  Have a wonderful day.

Proud to be Australian says:

12:49pm | 25/01/11

@Dave-o. I managed to make it through all the previous comments without feeling a need to post a reply. Yours though was impossible to go past.

I agree with one portion of your post - I also loathe those who drag the flag through the dirt. The rest though is BS. I don’t have one myself, but I find no quarrel with those who choose to show their pride in Australia through the application of a tattoo of Crux Australis.

Secondly, without the arrival of the first fleet on 26 Jan 1788 this country is highly unlikely to bear any resemblance to the Australia we currently live in. So in every way, yes 26 Jan SHOULD be called Australia Day. Your comments smack entirely of the “rampant political correctness” you purport not to believe in.

As to your insinuation that Australia must become a republic to become a true nation, can you please point out some tangible benefits in doing so? Not empty comments such as “it will show the world that we are grown up” or “its time to cut the apron strings”; I would like a list of TANGIBLE benefits. To me, those espousing a republic without the ability to point out any actual benefit are very insecure about how they view Australia and most likely reflect insecurity about how they view themselves. Probably explains why you began your post with “I’m embarrassed”.

Dave-o says:

02:11pm | 25/01/11

Firstly playing what if with history is the biggest waste of time going around. What if the Dutch pulled their fingers out? What if the French showed a little more colonial spirit? What if the Eureka stockade never happened? What if the Kelly’s had emigrated to America instead? What if Western Australia voted No again? What if the ALP never formed? What if indeed?

The introduction of White settlers was one pivotal event in a long history. To assume we got here today because of that event assumes every event afterwards was influenced by that decision.

Finally maybe you can see the Union Jack in the corner of the flag a very stark reminder to all those who aren’t of superior British breeding that this is a British colony. There over the years has been many instances where public policy has been led by an idea that Australia should be for Mother England much to its detriment. The tangible benefits is new constitution not under the rule of superstitious in-breeds but a nation who embody that all Australian ideal of “Fair go”.

Proud to be Australian says:

08:50pm | 25/01/11

@Dave-o. True - “What if” is a very difficult game to play. Does not change my point that regardless of which scenario you put forth, without the first fleet landing in 1788 this would be a very different country. As you so kindly point out - a pivotal event in our history. So my point remains valid re the date for Australia day.

As for the Union Jack in the corner of our flag, I see absolutely no reason to replace it. Why should we not advertise that this country as it now stands was founded by British colonists- be they of the willing variety or not? I have no shame in this fact though you seem to. Yes, we have since become a melting pot which is quickly losing sight of our origins, but to me this is reason to embrace our past and not reject it.

I see you were unable to provide a tangible benefit to becoming a republic. You did exactly as I requested you not, you spouted the usual republican line about being under the rule of (unelected) inbreds. Almost the same as those in my earlier post. Hardly original and definately not tangible.

A new constitution is possible without becoming a republic, though I am sure you are aware of how difficult it is to even make an amendment to our current constitution; so I am sure adopting a new one is highly unlikely in todays political climate with the population unable to even agree on a government.

Budz says:

09:47am | 25/01/11

I’m with you Adam and your last sentence. I don’t know why we are so negative on a day we should be so positive.
Having spent the first few years of my life in Sri Lanka, and then the next few in NZ, then moving to Australia. I forgot how good it is here until I went back to Sri Lanka last month and then to Thailand. It also made me realise what an outsider I felt in those other countries compared to Australia.
It is also amazing working in a small business where people were born all over the world. From Slovakia, Malta, Brazil, China, Canada and India to name a few.

Hamish says:

01:44pm | 25/01/11

AdamC, easily the most insightful comment here, including the oh-so-appropriate and timely ‘aren’t bogans just so beastly’ article. Australia must be the only country in the world that takes the worst 2-3% of the population and then extrapolates it out to the broader community. I mean seriously a ‘fuck off we’re full poster’? Give me a break. Try being a Copt in Egypt, a Kurd anywhere in the Arab World, or for that matter a Jew anywhere in the Arab World (or most of Europe these days as well). If the only grief (or violent bashing or explosion or bullet) you copped was a ‘fuck off we’re full poster’ you wouldn’t even wait to see if your lottery ticket had won before jetting off on your round the world holiday.

Why do we have to put up with this every Australia (or Invasion or Isn’t Multiculturalism Awesome) Day? It’s not like we wait til Christmas to decide Jesus was actually a complete dick who we all want to complain about.

Surely Australia Day is the one time of the year we should be celebrating the fact the vast majority of Australians are tolerant and generally productive members of society and ignore the 3% of the population who have southern cross tattoos and ‘we grew here you flew here’ bumper stickers?

James1 says:

02:31pm | 25/01/11

Hamish, I would be surprised if it was even 3 percent.

And don’t worry - I think the vast majority of Australian do exactly what you say at their barbeques - enjoy the company of other good Australians. 

Tomorrow, we should all spare a thought for the poor policemen who have to deal with the idiotic minority.

Hamish says:

02:56pm | 25/01/11

Too true James1. And anyone who isn’t attending a BBQ tomorrow should have their citizenship revoked. No BBQ on Australia Day = Un-Oztrayan!

David says:

09:35am | 25/01/11

I’m sure they do.

I think they like the Southern Cross because of its cultural significance to them and Australia’s history.  This has little to do with its precise, or even general, position in the sky.

I don’t think they like it just because it happens to sit in the southern sky.

ZSRenn says:

10:27am | 25/01/11

The Southern Cross Flag comes from the Ballarat riots. The miners adopted the flag as their symbol against the brutal oppression of the police at the time. The meaning has been butchered over time and now some people brandish it to be oppressive.

Very sad really!

Fred says:

11:13am | 25/01/11

Yes ZSRenn, but the joke is that the miners were “individual business people” and for some reason the unions then took the symbol as their own and used it as a rallying tool to attack business owners who resisted their demands. The next step you have observed as people brandishing it to be oppressive was a natural extension of the unions behaviour.

Pete says:

01:10pm | 25/01/11

Or that it appears on five or so other national flags.  Or that an Argentinian friend of mine also has an affinity with it.

Richard says:

08:16pm | 25/01/11

Exactly, so you can stop your smug judgemental attitude towards everyone with a southern cross tattoo as being bogan now.

Bobster says:

09:30am | 25/01/11

Jason commented on a mob of highly visible criminals. You think we should be tolerant of violent crims who attack based on skin colour?

To compare his comments to flogging the piss out of some innocent at the train station is a bit over the top, don’t you think?

Jade says:

10:49am | 25/01/11

Haha criminals Bobster? Thats going a bit to far now isn’t it??

Bobster says:

12:10pm | 25/01/11

From Jason’s piece: “Happy Australia Day… ya f—-ing ethnic!”

I think criminal proceedings would ensue were you to say that to a cop.

steve says:

10:21am | 27/01/11

@Huey,
Yes, Ethnic and Religious groups make up a very small number of people within the Defence Force.

Ive done just a little under 8 Years in the Navy and have only worked with a small number of (non white/christian) people.
And I hane never had a problem with any of them, probably because they have actually gotten of there ass and done something for thier country.

Full credit to them

CaptainCrunch says:

10:45am | 25/01/11

Bravo Reggieman!

Tom says:

10:28am | 25/01/11

Instead you should be glad most people aspire to careers other than the fast food industry. Im sure none of the people you work with are over 18 years of age and would rather take some time off to relax.

Khrystene says:

10:42am | 25/01/11

I (sadly) see and have seen most of what you see.

I have to work graveyard tonight at a large suburban hospital and I’m expecting to see an increased workload as ER starts filling up with AU day eve idiots who don’t quite know when to stop. (Because you GOTTA drink on a public holiday right!)

I was born here, 3rd Gen from Polish post-WWII immigrants (undesireables according to the White Australia Policy), who were indentured to the state for their trip, building much of the infrastructure around my area. I am proud of my family, but I’m not at all proud of the events of Jan 26th 1788 and the late 20th C. revival of nationalism surrounding that day.

For me, Australia day is in fact Survival Day and I thank goodness that Aboriginal people have survived and that they are still here to remind us that we have a chance to make good, and there are many people trying to do just that. In 200 odd years we have devastated this land and its people and that’s a great tragedy.

Forget that flag-waving, ignorant, self-loathing, billious minority that embarrass us all; but if you see it, don’t ignore it, be a brave Australian and say NO to it. The more we do that, the more we educate people on it, the sooner it will pass.

So Jan 26th is celebration of Aboriginal Survival day. Never lose sight of where we came from nor where we’re heading.

Gert says:

01:33pm | 25/01/11

Thomas, this is exactly the type of faux anecdotal anti-white bigotry that fuels racist sentiment. It’s little wonder that the yobbos act as they do when faced with this kind of condescending attitude. Yes, yes, the non whites are all hard working, racism suffering perfectionists and the whites sit around all day drinking beer at the beach. What an absolutely disgusting distortion of reality. Did you leave England because you hated the ‘Anglos’ so much? To work in fast food in another Anglo majority country? Perhaps you should have tried China or India, where anti-white racism is the national sport.

And as for the sentiments of Khrystene, it is appalling that someone with your Anglophobic worldview is allowed to work in a hospital. And there were Polish coming here from the first days of the White Australia Policy. So you have been fed incorrect, biased information. BTW, how many non-Polish people live in Poland? And how many Germans were massacred after WW2 on (formerly German)Polish soil. About 3000 times as many Indigenous Australians that were killed. That’s where your shame should be. ‘Survival day’. What a joke. The numbers of indigenous Australians has increased dramatically since European arrival. Maybe you should look at facts rather than see the world through your chauvinist, bigoted, anglophobic glasses.

Tim the Toolman says:

02:35pm | 25/01/11

“So Jan 26th is celebration of Aboriginal Survival day. Never lose sight of where we came from nor where we’re heading. “

Oh ffs…how about I just leave, ok?  Clearly not wanted here and if I want to stay, I should whip myself senseless with guilt over something I had nothing to do with.  How about we all just pick up and go (you included) and leave the aboriginals to their idyllic existence.  Seriously, how the hell do you get out of bed in the morning with such self-loathing and guilt?  Do you feel guilt for the populations your ancestors wiped out all through history?  Do you have any concept of how long your genetic history is?!  You should be feeling guilty for every attrocity ever committed if you’re guilty about what happened over 200 years ago!  How about we all just decide there’s nothing worth living for, or see any good in humanity, and just have one mass suicide.  There we go.  Happy Australia Day everyone!

GiveMeA Break says:

03:32pm | 25/01/11

Khrystene, has it occured to you that the reason why the Aboriginal poulation prior to 1788 had such little impact on the land and the environment was that, relative to todays world population and the current population, there weren’t that many around to have a great impact.  Any impact they made was easily manageable.

As for the impact on the Aboriginal population.  While it is very sad and not neccesarily right, unfortunately history, going right back to the Greeks, Persians and Romans, shows thats just the way it is.  No preamble acknowledging the “previous custodians” before any official speech is going to bring back dead people, is not going to change what happened and is defintely not going to make any government or population decide that we should return to the way things were 200 odd years ago.

Johan says:

09:10am | 26/01/11

Thomas,

I am Aussie born. I make fun of Poms in that “must do” ay of ours. But your post is the best I have read so far.

Bobster says:

09:59am | 25/01/11

It’s an ODI in Adelaide - Test cricket is now un-Australian because we’re no longer any good at it.

Kika says:

01:19pm | 25/01/11

I agree. Absolutely agree. It’s a made up nationalist day to make up for a lack of true Australian identity.

Wild Bill says:

03:14pm | 25/01/11

Kika, if there isn’t a strong Australian identity, maybe we should stop mass immigration so an Australian identity has time to develop. Or should we just adopt a Chinese or Indian identity instead and waste this once in a millenium opportunity?

Bobster says:

11:18am | 26/01/11

@ Wild Bill

Very true. We wouldn’t want to be taking any cues from anyone without white skin, would we? That would be the beginning of the end.

Only western European culture could possibly offer anything to a society. I mean, look at China, what has that culture ever achieved?

E.B. Farnum says:

10:22am | 25/01/11

I think your right Amy, Australia is just a region of One United World. We should equate the needs of other nationalities with our own needs because that’s exactly what the Chinese, Indian, and Russian governments are doing. The Chinese government only buys our resources so that we have money for healthcare and social security. I’m sure when we’ve used up all the coal the Chinese will still give us money because we’re all human beings and use new world thinking.

Chris says:

11:24am | 25/01/11

Bloody oath ! happy Australia Day to everyone

Who says:

11:14am | 25/01/11

Oops, didn’t mean to double up on the first paragraph.

Confused says:

12:11am | 26/01/11

And what exactly do you regard as questionable beginnings? Unless my understanding of history is seriously out of whack, modern Australia began along the same lines as most other young nations. Colonists moved in, overwhelmed the existing populace, and started shaping their new colony as a reflection of their old country.

By the tenets of the time this was the totally acceptable way of establishing a new colony, and this became the basis for the new country. We had a national identity until the early seventies. Apparently that was not one to be proud of as we were too anglo centric.

Now we are beginning to reap what was sown through multiculturism. Rather than one new colony overwhelming the existing populace we are inviting in many new colonies and the end result will be much the same. The “bogans” most others write about in other posts are the last efforts of the existing culture not to be overwhelmed. They may not be the best advocates for maintaining the status quo, but they are worried.

Sadly, unlike the aboriginals who are championed for trying to retain their culture, these people are denigrated and labelled as racist for doing the same. I doubt I will ever understand the self loathing and guilt exhibited by the bleeding hearts who are the first to yell “Racist” at the drop of a hat.

I don’t condone the violence towards others of those passionate about their culture, no matter which culture that may be. But I can certainly understand the feelings of alienation some Australians are beginning to feel in their own country.

Laura says:

12:29pm | 27/01/11

Another good one is: ‘Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious’ - Oscar Wilde.

Kika says:

01:25pm | 25/01/11

Actually I think July 4 in the USA is celebrated as the day they became independant of the UK. Nothing to do with shared heritage or ethnicity. All Americans are invited to participate - not just ones with shared DNA. And I would believe that the Australia day council would have us believe that we should celebrate Australia day in the same fashion as the US, seeing they are our inspiration for absolutely everything in life anyway.

I think you should pull your redneck racist head in. A white man in Germany? That speaks more for your entire self than the context of your whole article.

Greg says:

10:09pm | 25/01/11

Actually Kika, July 4th is the anniversary of the signing of the American declaration of independance, they were not recognised as indepenant from Britain until a few years (and a war) later.

And all of the signers of the declaration were white men of British heritage, which just reinforces the truism that great nations are founded by a cohesive society with shared values, culture and ancestry.

No great nation has ever risen from multicultural origins, on the contrary, it is an unmistakable sign of a nation in decline and has been since the Romans lost control of their borders.

Max is also correct in saying that race is a much stronger unifying force than nationality. A birthplace is irrelevant in comparison. A white person can never be Chinese or African, any more than a kitten born in a stable can be considered a horse.

Eleanor says:

12:45pm | 25/01/11

Whenever I see someone sprouting vitriol along the lines of ‘speak fuckin’ english!’, I retort with ‘Speak Koori or Piss Off!’

They normally don’t get it, though. *sigh*

Seanr says:

01:12pm | 25/01/11

What a silly comment. Actually you’ll see tomorrow Aboriginal activists burning the Australian flag and telling the rest of us to get lost.

Going with your theory that the length of time that Aboriginals have been here, makes them more Australian than others, my family has been here since the 19th century does that mean I’m more Australian than a recent migrant?

Kika says:

01:13pm | 25/01/11

Hey it’s only a s&&T hole because the Poms made it that way. They colonised Ireland too, don’t forget. They made the money there and made the Irish poor serfs indebted to their English overlords. HENCE the rise in criminality HENCE the convicts!

AFR says:

12:31pm | 25/01/11

Adam Hills did it to “Working Class Man” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVKngijexnw&feature=fvw

Ben C says:

02:02pm | 25/01/11

Adam Hills actually did already sing the national anthem to Gilligan’s Island, saw it on a chat show interview once. He never released it like he did with “Working Class Anthem” though. (I actually have the “Working Class Anthem” CD.)

Loulou says:

04:03pm | 25/01/11

Mike T Well said!!!

When I was at boarding school in year 10, I (along with the rest of the boarders in my year) was suspended. Basically two girls in my year snuck out of the boarding house to meet their boyfriends and got stoned on the school oval, needless to say these two girls got busted!! So in their wisdom the boarding mistress said that all the year ten boarders were to be sent straight home for two weeks suspension due to a severe drug incident…...you see out of 40 girls 2 did wrong, that is 5%, so the other 95% had to carry the punishment for their crime.

2 girls smoking pot, so suspend the 38 that weren’t as well just to proove a point, a group of kids in Cronulla bashing non-whites, brandishing an offensive slogan, and draped in Aussie flags, how come I am made to feel like a racist because of this? I wasn’t there, nobody I know was there so why tar me with that brush, and I will celebrate tomorrow because I am proud of my country and 95% of my countrymen, no matter if the grew here or flew here!!

AFR says:

03:18pm | 25/01/11

Not sure if it is “problem” per se, but Aussie TV is pretty white, although I was watching a Play School DVD with my niece the other day, and noted it presented by an Asian female and Homosexual male. Not sure why other networks seem to have a phobia of casting non-whites, unless it is as a cliche, like a Vietnamese guy running a dry cleaners or something.

OZDude says:

02:22pm | 25/01/11

I’ll tell you why you cant do that. Coz its a Global Village damn it and people need each other more than ever. So grow up and start learning how to respect people from other countries and their culture.

Its when we start respecting Migrants, they will start respecting the White Aussies as well. Being fortunate enough to be born here doesnt give anyone right to throw bear bottles on innocent migrant families.

It works the both ways mate, is it too hard to understand ?

Ben C says:

03:33pm | 25/01/11

Believe it or not, it is a bit too hard to understand for some people. I would also add why don’t you stop wearing clothes, because most clothes these days are made in China.

CG says:

12:28am | 26/01/11

Because that phrase does not mean that the person saying it, does not like people from other countries (making the three points below irrelevant).  It simply means, if you do not like Australia or the way of life here, the customs, or whatever, go somewhere that you think will be a better fit.  It does not mean, “Get lost, I don’t like foreigners, and I won’t buy your stuff!”

frederika steen says:

04:35pm | 26/01/11

Ditto, Jason, very glad you wrote this and gave some insight into what it is to be treated differently instead of equally and with respect instead of abuse.So many unthinking Aussies have no idea how hurtful and unnecessary their ignorance about the culture and background of migrants and refugees can be. It’s for reasons of unfounded fear that we lock up asylum seekers. Your article and more like it may begin to penetrate the conscience of the smug Aussie born who have not explored their own geneology, don’t recognise their own migrant inheritance as settlers who dispossessed the owners of the land.

Sue says:

09:28pm | 25/01/11

Because to dare to ask questions Matthew automatically labels you as a racist. The power of the PC police is strong ...

Frankly I think the accusation ‘racist’ is too easy to brand someone with and is lazy. It’s like people are not allowed to question.  I find many aspects of other races quite repulsive (to be brutally honest). There are even men of certain races I would never consider a relationship with. And I’m sure it would be vice versa because I’m not the kind of woman they want to be with. Whatever, it’s my life. But I don’t consider myself ‘racist’ per se. I don’t vilify or abuse people over my OPINIONS. I don’t spread racial propaganda and you may have noticed I haven’t even bothered to actually name any particular race I don’t like. It’s like you are immediately given the racist tag unless you have nothing but love and sugar plum fairy thoughts about other races. So if you think I’m a racist, fair enough, I won’t lose sleep over it. I’d sooner be accused of being racist than of being a child molester! Or even a thief.

I think the issue that you talk of Matthew is one that just seems to be swept under the carpet. Nobody wants to be the one to breach the subject. Believe me, many people I know are concerned about how many don’t want to integrate into our society. It’s a fear of the violence that we see overseas on our News every day. We aren’t asking them to forget where they came from, but to be accepting and tolerant of the existing society norms we have in place here. And they have to accept that people from other communities who they may have had age-old conflicts with are going to live here too, and they must get on. Or get out. Find a land that only allows ‘your kind’. They must accept that we are a democratic country and a country that affords equal rights to both men and women.

Vicki PS says:

12:33am | 26/01/11

@Sue, it’s not your questions that raise the spectre of racism, it’s the spurious answers you’ve come up with.

Leaving aside the difference between race and culture (NOT the same thing), many people, myself included, would have difficulty establishing an intimate relationship or life partnership with someone from a very different cultural background, if we found no common ground in our essential values and attitudes.

However, that incompatibility seems to me just as likely to be there between me and someone from my own “race” or particular Australian sociocultural group.  I’d as soon poke my own eye out with a fork than consider a relationship with someone like, say, Sam Newman or Peter Costello or (god forbid) Eric.

As soon as one starts to question exactly what constitutes refusal to integrate, the issues just get greyer and greyer.  For instance, ideally and in law Australia affords equal rights to men and women.  But does this mean that no ‘real’ Australian men bash their wives or girlfriends, or treat them like second-class citizens or idiots? Yeah, sure.  Are there no white Anglo 5th generation Aussie born men and women who despise aboriginal people?  Mm hmm, really?  Are the Catholics and Anglicans who oppose ordination of women ‘refusing to integrate’?  Should all of Jehovah’s Witnesses go somewhere that allows only their kind?  And the BIG question—how many non-white, non-Anglo-European Australians do there have to be before the ‘real’  culture includes their culture?

Of course the spectres of cultural/racial violence and polarised populations are real concerns that need to be openly discussed.  Open discussion, however, doesn’t mean only considering one possible set of answers.