The Liberals are currently staggering around the corridors in Parliament House like a bomb has gone off. In political terms it kind of has. The past 36 hours has smashed Malcolm Turnbull’s authority, failed to produce a viable alternative candidate for the leadership, transformed manageable differences of opinion into bitter personal hatreds, left the frontbench a mess with three resignations already and possibly more to come, not to mention a looming reshuffle just to add further fire to an already incendiary situation.

Malcolm Turnbull chats with frontbenchers Peter Dutton and Joe Hockey during Question Time today. Photo: Ray Strange.

Liberal MPs are openly talking about their sadness at the way the whole thing crashed around their ears. They are worried about their seats and had wanted one of two things to happen - to achieve a quiet consensus on a CPRS deal and to quietly pass the legislation, or for the talks with the Rudd Government to fail and to vote against it. Instead they have got open internal warfare.

Their biggest fear is how it will play out with traditional Liberal Party voters who cannot fathom the logic of what the party has done in embracing a lose-lose situation, whereby people who believe in climate change will give full credit to the Government for introducing a CPRS, while people who do not believe in climate change will punish the Opposition for backing it.

“We are getting hundreds and hundreds of emails, literally hundreds, attacking us for what we have done,” one MP said. “I can recognise a lot of their names…it is all downside. Their is no political benefit in it for us at all.”

At the same time the Nationals are receiving emails from Liberal Party voters who are saying they are furious their party went along with Rudd, and intend to vote for the Nats next time for taking a blanket stand against the CPRS.

On top of this policy failure, where the Libs logically win no credit from greener voters and nothing but condemnation from skeptics, there is a truly unmanageable sense of hostility that MPs are likening in its venom to the DLP split which kept Labor in the wilderness for so many years.
The hardcore of right-wingers - the likes of Nick Minchin - who did everything to stop the CPRS are being accused of recklessness, disregard for the good of the party, even stupidity in allowing this debate to turn into a leadership issue but then failing to find plan b in the form of a viable candidate to roll Turnbull.

But others in the party are equally venomous in their abuse of Turnbull - Peter Slipper even went so far as to liken publicly him to Robert Mugabe, others have labelled him arrogant, imperious, a bully, mad, abusive, insulting, an emperor…on and on and on.

Labor at present does not need to bother making negative ads for the next campaign as the Libs in the past 36 hours have done it all for them. And that will trickle down to voters in marginal seats, many of whom don’t love Rudd but who would have a bit of a giggle at the idea of voting for this lot, who can’t even organise a leadership spill properly. 

72 comments

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    • Patrick says:

      05:29pm | 25/11/09

      I’ve been thinking this all day. Conservatives are going bonkers across the blogosphere, talk back radio, etc, talking about switching their votes to the nationals, reviving One Nation etc etc.

      I’ll be very interested to see the results of the next newspoll. Is this the begining ofthe Coalition’s very own DLP split?

    • Louis McLennan says:

      05:31pm | 25/11/09

      I feel there is a bigger problem Australians are facing. That is the ETS is still going to get through the senate.

    • Niles says:

      05:42pm | 25/11/09

      If we vote rudd out it will send a super clear message - the people won’t put up with this! VOTE RUDD OUT!

    • Greg Barrington says:

      05:44pm | 25/11/09

      Maybe if Malcolm likes ALP legislation so much he should stand as a candidate for them. I for one will not be voting Liberal again while this weak, hand wringing, closet lefty continues as leader of the Liberal Party.

    • RT says:

      05:51pm | 25/11/09

      This could be the end of the coalition and the beginning of an attempted resurgence by the Nationals. That’s what some like Barnaby Joyce want. Maybe the Nats will contest a lot more seats, including possibly urban seats, against the Libs. I don’t think such a strategy would be good for the anti-Labor parties though.

    • Julian says:

      05:55pm | 25/11/09

      Liberal + selfish pollies + no team dynamic = disaster for a selfish party ... when are these guys going to wake up and realise that any successful team needs unquestionable loyalty, a team focus and a common goal. Liberal has lost its way and is totally self-inflicted .... they’re acting like a bunch of adolescent school boys ....

    • Louis McLennan says:

      06:21pm | 25/11/09

      Julian it would be VERY selfish of MP’s to blindly follow Malcolm Turnbull into the ETS. This is a BIG issue. It is up to MP’s to get the party to make the right decision. Because Turnbull has failed to make the correct decision by his party this is what it has become. The liberal party is set-up differently to the ALP for a damned good reason.

      I’ll welcome a Nationals resurgence. However, with the LNP the Nationals will have trouble seating candidates in traditionally liberal seats.

      At least you know the Nationals are going to be genuine in what they do as they have been in the senate for years. After all it was a National Bill Gunn who launched Fitzgerald Inquiry. I wonder if Paul Lucas dare do the same thing to chairman Bligh.

    • iansand says:

      06:21pm | 25/11/09

      National One Nation.  Or One National.  It has a certain ring to it…

    • Patrick says:

      06:44pm | 25/11/09

      Odd that so many right wingers, with all their free market ideology and belief in small government, are now mulling over switching their votes to the Nationals, a party whose platform is essentially one of agrarian socialism.

    • RJB says:

      06:50pm | 25/11/09

      The Nationals need to examine their support as a result of this betrayal by Turnbull and get on the front foot and assert themselves. All day in the commercial field I have been hearing staff and shoppers alike declaring they would never vote Liberal again while this Rudd lite leader Turnbull holds pole position. This would also apply to like minded Hockey, Australia is crying out for opposition to Rudd from media and alternate governments.

    • Julian says:

      07:18pm | 25/11/09

      Louis, while I agree that ALL politicians should question issues that are complex and controversial, the Liberals have to decide where they stand - to benefit Australians. Rebellion and division will always haunt politics, but for a party in trouble, Liberal shouldtake a view that will benefit most Australians. They have to weigh up the pros and cons - and arrive at the best solution. That debate should be thrashed out in Liberal meetings, where they can decide which way to go ... and then front the media as a united party. That’s just commonsense.

    • geopol says:

      07:33pm | 25/11/09

      I am happy to say that this collapse could not have happened to a more deserving mob of ratbags, revenge seeking miserable, self serving useless fools who have done nothing of worth since having lost the election two years ago…

    • Lance says:

      07:40pm | 25/11/09

      It doesn’t seem to matter what Turnbull does, he will always be painted wrong by the media. If he was aganst the ETS they would say hes is a denialist, if he agrees with the ETS his selling out to Rudd. He puts his hand up for a spill, and gives them a chance to throw him out but they don’t. But still the media are hounding him down no matter what he does. Rudd and his media mates will not be happy until Turnbull is not leader. It has been Rudds and the media’s plan ever since UTEGATE. It’s all very sad and you can put alot of the blame fairly and squarely on the media, the media in this country decide who is popular and who is not. Rudd and the media would have been so disappointed this afternoon when Turnbull still had the support of the party.

    • mountcross says:

      08:07pm | 25/11/09

      I agree with Louis @6.31 - this ETS is scary - most people it seems haven’t a clue what its all about and many in the Coalition are indeed worried by it. The Labor Party arnt allowed to break ranks and voice individual ideas as that then becomes a Pre Selection “no no” for that person. I would hazard a guess there are many in the Labor Party worried too as this ETS will be forever pinned to them ! Time for all to slow down and have a long hard look at what is really proposed and what real effect , if any, it will have.

    • Peter says:

      08:09pm | 25/11/09

      It’s interesting to see that the insanity of the parliamentary Liberal Party is alive and well on this thread with the Liberal Party supporters.  It’s spreading like some kind of virus and who do we thank for being the original germ carrier? John Howard for tight-fisted control allowing no possible contenders for his crown.

      Howard may have actually destroyed the party of his (so he claims) political hero - Robert Gordon Menzies.

    • TQS says:

      08:14pm | 25/11/09

      Agriculture makes up only 3.6% of GDP, whilst the ETS tax condemns the entire Australian economy. Agrarian socialism is less of a compromise than a Watermelon tax of a centre-left party. The Liberal left have shown themselves to be true believers in big government tax, spend & redistribution of wealth. Conservatives have less compromise with the Nationals, and should join them in an LNP. Leave the Don Chipp liberals to go the way of the Democrats.

    • Grumpy says:

      09:26pm | 25/11/09

      You must be kidding. The whole climate change thing is a win-win for the Conservatives.

      If the annoyingly persistent irritating scientists are wrong then - they win! If they are right then annoying but at least the annoying boat people have further to come.

      Either way they win.

      (Wish I could attribute the ideas to their source but have been reading too many blogs)

    • Jim Fletcher says:

      10:09pm | 25/11/09

      What are these idiots up to. They have appeared to have alienated a large number of their traditional base, and for the life of me I’ve got no idea what additional support they might have gained from elsewhere.
      As a (until very recently) Liberal supporter I hope they get roundly trounced at the next election - it is the only way this mob have any hope of rebuilding a party worthy of supporting.
      A pox on Turnbull and his miserable supporters - he once accused Howard of breaking Australia’s heart. History will ultimately judge these two men. I think one could be safe in saying “it wont be much of a contest”.
      Apologies to the more noble, courageous, and rational, non supporting members.

    • Matt says:

      11:58pm | 25/11/09

      Doesn’t this show to you, the people that neither the Coalition nor Labor or the Greens are one in the same?

      They all want to sell out. Whores of the bankers, lawyers, industry, think tanks and foundations.

      Personal responsibility is what you should have for your lives. Not another Government bureaucracy ordering you to pick up the financial soap.

      And what of Copenhagen? A massacre of national soverienty as an unelected global authority dictates and enforces Carbon Dioxide taxes for the entire country. Taxation without representation…

      All of course hasn’t happened yet but do you want it to?

      “2009 is also the first year of global governance with the establishment of the G20 in the middle of the financial crisis the climate conference in Copenhagen is another step towards the global management of our planet” - EU President Rompuy

      “A deal needs to be backed by money and the means to deliver it.” - UN Secretary Ban Ki-Moon.

      This isn’t about left or right. This is about right and wrong. Sovereignty vs unrepresented global regulation and enforcement.

    • Peter says:

      12:59am | 26/11/09

      Rubbish. The ALP stalemated the whole affair from start to finish. I remember quite clearly 6 months ago the libs calling for the government to come forward and negotiate the bill. The media’s kept the focus firmly on the libs rather than discussing what is possibly the most important economic reform since GST.

      If Penny Wong believed even a fraction on what she said about climate change she would have opened the bill to proper scrutiny rather than releasing the bill two days before passing it. With all that is at stake, democracy and the Australian public were the real losers after this fiasco.

    • Jackson says:

      05:39am | 26/11/09

      RJB - whats the betrayal by Turnbull? Rudd lite? why? because he believes in climate change? you sound like you work for the media. if he didn’t believe in climate change you would have something to winge about.

    • acker says:

      06:06am | 26/11/09

      I think this exercise continues to prove a fact of life
      A smaller group of angry dissenters always screams louder and makes a lot more noise than the generally calm majority.
      Barnaby Joyce just screams at everything, he must have made his mum feel like she was walking on eggshell’s near his cot when he was a baby.

      I bet the little sucker howled

    • watty says:

      06:38am | 26/11/09

      Penberthy.  You repeat the accusation that Peter Slipper likened Turnbull to Mugabe.Listening to the clip again Slipper likened the voting process used to reach “agreement” was like a Mugabe election which many would agree with.

      And by the way…you can relax…the aircraft landing in Adelaide last night told their passengers that the temperature was 16.9C with light breezes.
      It’s what is known as natural climate change not the alarmist nonsense you were espousing yesterday.

    • Robert says:

      06:59am | 26/11/09

      David would you PLEASE stop fuelling this inaccurate myth with comments like this: “people who believe in climate change will give full credit to the Government for introducing a CPRS, while people who do not believe in climate change will punish the Opposition for backing it.”
      I know many people who - like me - who believe in climate change and DO NOT endorse this fundamentally flawed and unworkable ETS program. We will never have sensible, constructive debate about climate change so long as those of us opposed to the ETS are treated as climate skeptics and supporters of unsustainable environmental practices!

    • Wayne Hutchins says:

      06:58am | 26/11/09

      Barnaby Joyce for PM! The sight of TURNCOAT standing there with a smug look on his face telling us he is the messiah and he has made the decision is forever burned into my memory. He has made his position clear and therefore he should re start that conversation he has had with the Labor party about joining. This is the time for the major shake up politics needs in this country. How close have we just come to having this abomination of a new tax thrust upon us and with out any real debate on it’s contents. The true debate among the Australian people has only just begun and he and Krudd want to sign this into law! Why the rush guys? Considering the negligible impact this new tax will have on the environment, why lock us in? This is the creation of a whole new commodity that will see our vulnerable starve. Those pension rises are well and truly gone. In the last few months I have gone out of my way to ask people what they know about the ETS. Ignorance is bliss for way too many people. We need the opposition to appose this new tax until more debate has been had. Why is free to air tv just now highlighting the potential fraud by the IPCC? People need to reconnect with their politicians. The blind faith of one party on an issue that has torn the opposition apart is truly a worrying sign of the times. Well done to Barnaby Joyce for “keeping the bastards honest” (to borrow a phrase of days long past). It’s strange that in this day of modern communications, the people back in the day of valve radios were more informed or cared more of what our politicians were up to than do now. Scary Stuff! Thank god that the majority are starting to stir and I bet that is putting the shivers up KRudds spine.

    • Martin Luther says:

      07:15am | 26/11/09

      Lance is quite right. The media, in support of Labor, undermines Liberal leaders. Look at what has happened in State arena. Totally incompetent Premiers are not criticized while Liberal opposition leaders are continualy sneered at and undermined.
      The media in Australia supports a one party authoritarian state so long as it is of rhe left!

    • Terry says:

      07:24am | 26/11/09

      This issue is too important to have been allowed to be politicised in our ridiculously adversarial system. Look at the result - a bad outcome and potentially an opposition doomed to remain that for 10 or more years. This country and its people deserve much better.

    • Peter says:

      07:31am | 26/11/09

      1. If Turnbull was against Rudds ETS the media would label him as weak and a climate change denialist. 2. If Turnbull agrees with Rudds ETS with amendments he’s selling himself to Rudd and not listening to his climate change denialist in the party. 3. If Turnbull was against the ETS, Rudd would call a DD and win and the ETS would go through anyway unamended. 4. So shouldn’t the media being focusuing on Rudd? He is the one that is hammering for the ETS. I would think Turnbulls approach is the only approach that can be taken. Well then we have the media jumping on Turnbull and saying there are divisions in the party and it’s his fault for being a pig headed leader. So Turnbull calls for a spill and puts his job on the line and wins. Now the media go for “just shows how divided the Liberal party is” Well you tell me what the hell is he supposed to do? Meanwhile Rudd is sitting with Penny Wong having a cuppa and an iced vo vo, with no scrutiny about THEIR ETS what so ever.

    • Joe says:

      07:43am | 26/11/09

      It is a disgrace that the soft Liberal mps are now out basically selling Rudd’s ets for him. What the hell is going on? Its not too late. Keep lobying your liberal senators so that the change their vote and wake up!

    • Daniel says:

      07:44am | 26/11/09

      I think up until christmas we will see more tensions and more recklessness from the Liberal party. At least they are honest and open about it all. Not like the ALP. I just wish those people that are upset with the Liberal party would switch their votes to the Greens.

    • Merack says:

      07:59am | 26/11/09

      Turnbull deserves some praise. He has shown he is a Leader, he has to make decisions (something Rudd is incapable of) he believes in. He has done the right thing to try and amend Rudds ETS, he had no choice as Peter comments it would have gone through anywway unamended if Rudd called a DD.  Andrews, Minchin, and the other climate change deinailist should be shown the door! They still think Howard is Leader.

    • Sherlock says:

      08:10am | 26/11/09

      Why would I vote for the Liberals again? If they’re going to agree with the government on an $11 billion per year tax on all Australians for a scheme that will do absolutely nothing to counter any effects from climate change then I might as well vote for the government.

      I can only hope that the Nats run a candidate but unfortunately I can’t see that happening in my electorate.

      Once Australians begin to understand what this ETS means there will be a backlash against both Labor and the Liberals. I absolutely refuse to believe, no matter what your opinion is on climate change. that a single Australian is stupid enough to agree to pay thousands of dollars more in tax and increased costs for a scheme that won’t do anything at all to mitigate climate change.  If you are stupid enough then how about sharing your reasons with the rest of us?

    • Andy says:

      08:17am | 26/11/09

      Turnbull has only done what he always said he was going to do and let the ETS pass.
      It was always going to be difficult when you have so many creationist in the party and others like Abbott, who has not even read any of the scientific reports on climate change and goes around quoting opinion pages.

    • Harry says:

      08:26am | 26/11/09

      I’ve already today been reading media reports that leadership challenges always fail the first time but succeed the second time. Can you believe it! When will the media in this country stop this Turnbull witch hunt? It;s not even 24hrs since Turnbull won the spill and they’re already talking about another one! This sort of biased media reporting is no good for Australia! stop it now!

    • acker says:

      08:32am | 26/11/09

      @Tim 8.37am

      All your link realates to is some punter bloggers crikey article and one forum poster punter’s (most likely you) singular post.

      Nice attempt at cross promoting yourself on blog-sites, but that is about all your link is worth.

    • alteria says:

      08:52am | 26/11/09

      RJB - what ‘betrayal’? The coalition went to the 2007 election promising to introduce an ETS. The betrayal therefore has been by the Nats and rebel Libs, not Turnbull.

    • alteria says:

      08:54am | 26/11/09

      Tim 8:37 - there is zero chance that any future Australian government will propose no action on climate change.

    • harry c says:

      09:05am | 26/11/09

      The Liberals should promote their greatest asset. The freedom to speak ones mind. Labor politicians do not represent their constituents, they represent the Labor Party. The ETS is a NEW TAX and once the inflationary effects kick in, the Labor Party will be punished at the polls. The poorest will be hit the hardest and those that support the ETS will find it hard to be reelected.

    • Penny says:

      09:14am | 26/11/09

      Harry - the media haven’t stopped on Turnbull there today. Also being reported in the media “utegate returns to haunt Turnbull” looks like they couldn’t get anywhere with the leadership spill, so they’ve gone back to square one and try utegate again. The media truely are unbelievable. Turnbull’s going to be around until the next election guys, so give it a rest. Whats Kev up to? Anyone heard?

    • Laughter says:

      09:16am | 26/11/09

      To be blunt, the Liberal Party will be better off without the all Tims, the Sherlocks, the Wayne Hutchins, the Andikas and all the other scribblers too lazy and too spiteful to post anything but outrageously misleading, unsupported claims that dont withstand the simplest check of fact source or logic. 

      Like the Tuckeys, Andrews and Minchins, their voices only make the Party a laughing stock - as do the Joyces and the Fieldings, all of whom should know better.

    • Checker says:

      09:18am | 26/11/09

      harry C check your facts before you post more nonsense.

    • Chase Stevens says:

      09:23am | 26/11/09

      Ahaha well it was only a matter of time. But I honestly prefer the Libs the the nationals and certainly any other party than ‘One Nation’. Nationalism isn’t a good thing and that’s all One Nation conjures for me.

    • Sherlock says:

      09:31am | 26/11/09

      @ laughter. What misleading claims did I post? All I said was I absolutely refuse to believe, no matter what your opinion is on climate change. that a single Australian is stupid enough to agree to pay thousands of dollars more in tax and increased costs for a scheme that won’t do anything at all to mitigate climate change.

      Do you think the ETS will actually reduce any effects of climate change?If so then explain to the rest of us why a 5% reduction will help?  Are you are prepared to pay thousands of dollars per year for nothing? If so why?

    • Carl Palmer says:

      09:36am | 26/11/09

      Johnny, Johnny Johnny, what happened to succession planning. Most small, medium and large corporation have this as standard practice in business. You were running one enormous business and this is the legacy which you have left a party you so much loved. Look at the rubble you have left. A party that has self imploded and will continue to do so. A party that does not offer the electorate a viable alternative..

      Penbo you are right, who do the sceptics or those that don’t know and yes there are quite a few, vote for now? What is the alternative? If you don’t support the proposition that AGW is true who do you vote for? Greens, Labour, Libs? 

      Finally, you could also put forward the proposition that the PM is “arrogant, imperious, a bully, mad, abusive, insulting, an emperor” yet the ALP isn’t imploding. So that can’t be the reason for challenging Mr Turnbull and if it were the case, then that would be a pretty poor reason. Could it be that the opposition does not have a strategic policy on this issue which is supported by “the party” and their constituents in these matters? A policy that they can effectively argue? As it stands now, they may as well all go and sit with the ALP when they are in the House of Reps. Sad day for Australia.

    • Ben P says:

      09:37am | 26/11/09

      The Liberal voters upset over this are not a “tiny minority.” This is clear from Penbo’s report - where he writes of the unprecedented numbers of angry emails being received by Liberal MPs.  The whole crisis is Turnbull’s fault in the end - things blew up because of the way he has mismanaged the whole process.  He will never be Prime Minister, thank goodness.

    • Susan says:

      10:06am | 26/11/09

      @Laughter. I don’t think Fielding is terribly worried about making the Liberal Party or the Coalition a laughing stock, given he’s a member of Family First…

      @Sherlock - are you the same one who used to float around on Blogocracy? If so, I never thought I would see the day when you’d seriously suggest that you mightn’t vote for the Liberals.

      Much as many Liberal supporters here are trashing the media for being too negative about the last few days, you’re really kidding yourselves if you think it’s anything but a complete rabble. Anyone but seriously rusted on Liberal voters will find it very hard to think these guys could possibly band together enough to govern, and it will kill them in a lot of marginals.

      I’m also expecting a few three sided contests in some fringe urban seats. The Liberals have stolen a few traditional Nationals electorates in the last few elections (e.g. Farrer) and I’d think the Nationals would see the time to try and poach these back as 2010.

    • Balanced says:

      10:18am | 26/11/09

      Mr Howard left a train wreck behind. The greatest quality a leader can have is that he prepares his organisation for leadership succession.Mr Howard was so dedicated to maintaining his residence at Kirribilli for one more term to beat the Menzies record, he undermined his natural successor at the ultimate cost to the Party he claimed he loved and served. In reality Mr Howard held his Party in contempt and in particular the State Branches. The only person that could have successfully won the 2007 election for the Coalition was Mr Costello. The only person that could have made the current Government a one term Government, difficult as that would have been, was Mr Costello. All you rusted on Liberals can stop blaming the hopelessly inexperienced Mr Turnbull, the media, Government spin, and the rest; the blame squarely rests with a political party that failed to renew when it had the chance. It will now pay the price.

    • Sherlock says:

      11:03am | 26/11/09

      Susan asked

      @Sherlock - are you the same one who used to float around on Blogocracy? If so, I never thought I would see the day when you’d seriously suggest that you mightn’t vote for the Liberals.

      It certainly is me. I’ve voted Labor on a number of occasions. Including 3 times for Hawke and once for Keating

    • Ian says:

      11:15am | 26/11/09

      Alternately
      as a climate change believer but anthropogenic warming skeptic I have marginalised by the labelling of alternate viewpoints by the government.  At least the Liberal party has room for different viewpoints.  I applied for membership today.

    • DigiDave says:

      11:21am | 26/11/09

      @Balanced

      Almost the exact same circumstances as Labor was in after Keating lost in 96.  Not surprising for almost any government that has been in long term.

      @Susan

      While there is some truth in what you say, the biggest issue for the Liberal party in my opinion is that Turnbull misread his party, and assumed he would be able to convince them to get behind a policy that far too many fundamentally disagree with.

      Turnbull should have called for delay in passing the ETS at the very least, and I suspect in hindsight he will regret not doing this.  And considering that even on this site, around 57% voted in a recent Poll they’d prefer the ETS delayed, Turnbull has made a big mistake.

    • Mark B says:

      12:00pm | 26/11/09

      @DigiDave, I agree, and it would have been interesting to see if Mr Costello would have become as tired of the political game as Mr Keating clearly had by 1995-6. Maybe Prime Ministers should only be allowed to run two terms, so that succession planning is forced on their Party. That would have prevented Mr Howard from having Shane Stone stab Mr Costello in the back based on “private” focus polling, and then later Mr Howard looking the other way when the new parliamentarian and leadership aspirant Mr Turnbull used his own money to publish a proposal containing over 300 tax initiatives; an attempt to undermine Mr Costello and Dr Henry. A two term cap would also encourage PM’s to focus on the legacy they leave, rather than pork barrelling to stay in the job for as long as possible for all the wrong reasons, as Mr Howard did; he was a disgrace to the position he held.

    • joe says:

      12:06pm | 26/11/09

      Well its not to late to keep flooding our pollies with emails and phone calls opposing the ETS.

    • Paul says:

      12:13pm | 26/11/09

      What’s wrong with the Liberals here in Australia - other Conservative parties aroud the world have embraced AGW as real and actionable (big exception is USA Republicans)?

    • Ozzie says:

      12:22pm | 26/11/09

      By Crikey I reckon Laughter’s about right.  Sherlock, you’re the one making the claims. Back ‘em up with something reliable, or pipe down.

      And no, Joyce and Fielding don’t count. Can’t youse blokes cope with a bit of research?

    • GC.. says:

      12:25pm | 26/11/09

      The collusion between Rudd and Turnbull is disgraceful.  Will voters stand for these laws that fine you for indiscriminately throwing rubbish out of your car window?  I think not. 

      Let’s look at the facts: whether or not I personally throw rubbish out the window has virtually no impact on the total amount of rubbish on Australian roadsides.  After all, mine is just one car in 20 million.  All those maccas meals, coke cans and ciggie butts that people moan about make so little difference.  The worst thing is; it will cost me good money to go to the servo and use the vacuum cleaner to get all that crap off my floor now that I can’t fling it.  No matter how you look at it, that’s a TAX.  Don’t get me started on the fines.

      I’m totally stoked that the National Party and a few enlightened members of the Libs support my right to not be taxed when I need to rapidly dispose of one of the kid’s nappies in the gutter.  One of the Nat leaders (they’ve got so many now days) even said that the odd gutter nappy and ciggie butt ADDS to the natural beauty of our great country, thus attracting the tourists and making us even more money!!  And the greenies want to prevent that!

      The very WORST aspect of this whole thing is that people speak of this as a moral issue.  Seriously, it’s up to someone else to sort out this problem.  What could be more moral than that?

      The sooner Turnbull realises this, the sooner he will become a great leader.

    • Jim Wiggs says:

      12:35pm | 26/11/09

      Did anyone listen to Tony Delroy’s ‘Issue of the Day’ last night?  An amazing amount (considering the usual suspects who call that programme) of callers saying that they had new found respect for Turnbull for the leadership he has shown.

    • RT says:

      12:46pm | 26/11/09

      GC 1:25pm - the only ‘collusion’ between Turnbull and Rudd is to reach agreement on ETS legislation that both their parties promised to introduce at the last election. Turnbull has honoured that promise and is to be admired for it.

    • Mr. Peabody says:

      12:46pm | 26/11/09

      GC and other: All Turnbull is doing is agreeing to an ETS that is essentially the same as the EST that Howard took to the last election. Just how many Liberal voters chose not to vote Liberal at the last election because of Howard’s ETS? The backlash against Turnbull is just hypocrisy of the highest order.

    • pc says:

      12:46pm | 26/11/09

      Hi Dave, I thought the tantrum might be over but its not. GC and others cant acknowledge the courage of Malcolm Turnbull. What kind of blindess is this?

      And yet the truth is out there. Aliens walk amongst us. Do do do do. Is it the x files? Do we need Fox (the mulder kind not the news porn channel kind.)?

      In order to tackle climate change which is a democratic position, a consensus position you need a plan. The ets is an imperfect plan. As has been explained by numerous people on just as many occassions. Mining and industry have been favoured over citizens but if you read George Megalogonis in todays Oz you will find citizens dont do that badly. Many want a more ambitious plan and the ets has been designed to be flexible so (Inshallah) we can improve it. Many citizens want to do this but have been drowned out by the tantrum of a super sweet sixteen that coudnt get over the fact she was wrong, she had ruined her own party and now didnt want to get over it and have a good time anyway. But what of the collateral damage?  We need a better plan so we need a better consensus on a plan of action not just a consensus on action. What of our relationships? Oh Zeus Im talking about relationships. How are psedononymous smart@rses, vogons and those super sweet sixteens, meant to get on with each other? While we argue over the science or the fate of Malcolm Turnbull everybody else is deciding copenhagen is just preparation for the next conference. The next conference, at which no doubt, we will discover it was just preparation for the next conference after that. Lets pass the ets and get on with it. (Yes just get on with it.)

      Green people tell me red is the new brown. I dont see very much constructive green planning amidst all the self destructive vogon pride.

      There are aliens amongst us. And we should all learn to party. You know who knows how to party. Kally. Shake it for us Tupac

      Copen - hagen likes to party
      Copen - hagen likes to party

      In the ci - ti. Thecityofcopenhagen
      In the ci-ti. Thecityofcopenhagen

      Shake it Copenhagen. Shake it Malcolm. Shake it Penny. Macca shake it out
      On the left shake it. Dont forget the right.
      Shake it BJ. Shake it Andrew Bolt
      Vogonity shake it in the back
      Everybody shake it.

    • Steve of Cornubia says:

      01:13pm | 26/11/09

      Do you ever have a creative idea David, or are you content to just keep on bashing the Libs? Just scanning the topics of your last few articles shows an unhealthy fascination with Malcolm Turnbull. I suppose that your support for Labour takes precedence over any fleeting temptation you might have to report impartially.

      I guess you’re hoping that, like the trash mags that announce Jennifer Aniston’s ‘Shock Pregnancy!’ every few weeks, hoping that one day they will be right, you’re hoping your endless predictions of Malcolm’s demise will eventually be proved right.

    • Luke says:

      01:48pm | 26/11/09

      I have more respect for Turnbull now than i did before. He’s one of the only ones in the Libs with any brains. To lose him as Leader would be good bye to the Liberal Party forever. The idiots in the party should realise that and give him support and the respect he deserves as leader or retire. Unfortunately for Turnbull he has a few loud mouth members who are more interested in ruining the Liberal party because they can’t get there own way with Turnbull. Some just can’t ajust to Howard not being around. I think Turnbulls performance has improved and keeps improving. Well done Turnbull.

    • Sherlock says:

      02:10pm | 26/11/09

      @ozzie at 1.22 pm

      Reducing our emissions by the target 5% will recude our percentage of the worlds emissions by 0.075% the aspirational target of 15% will make it 0.225% or 1/445th .That will do absolutely nothing to offset any global warming effects therefore it’s a useless scheme.

      So please share with us why you appear prepared to by thousands of dollars per year in extra tax and expenses every year to achieve precisely stuff all.

    • Sick of bull says:

      02:39pm | 26/11/09

      Sherlock is having a lend of us.

      His method is to make a confection of assorted misleading statements, often unconnected, invariably unsourced, which he then endeavours to put into the mouth of those who call him to account.

      He knows full well that we will be taking part with many other nations to whom we sell far more than we ouselves emit.

      He knows full well, if he troubled to follow any reasonable source (The Australian, The ABC, or the CPA for that matter come to mind), that for most families with income below under $100,000 the cost will be effectively nothing and in any event certainly not “thousands of dollars in extra tax.”

      His posts are frankly dishonest to the last degree and can henceforth be safely ignored for the dross they are.

    • iansand says:

      02:43pm | 26/11/09

      Sherlock@1:22 I hope the Chinese never cotton on to that argument.

    • Jenifer says:

      02:46pm | 26/11/09

      Turnbulls performance is improving. The more Rudd and the media keep trying to destroy him the stronger he is getting, and I think alot of people are starting to see that now, especially after this last week. They might try and keep knocking him down but he keeps getting up and even managers to smile and stay professional. He seems to me tio be a great bloke who is very intelligent and the experience he has had since being leader has only improved his performance. Another term of the arogant smug show pony Rudd and Australia will be screaming for Turnbull to be PM. He deserves more credit than he is given by the media,

    • steve says:

      03:01pm | 26/11/09

      @Darren - I wonder if Mike Baird is paying for his own website or is it being paid for by taxpayers - including constituents he attacks -

    • Marilyn says:

      03:13pm | 26/11/09

      There are alot of comments blaming the media for a witch hunt on Turnbull. I’ve never in the past really thought that was true, but after this week I’ve certainly changed my mind. If you browse through previous headlines and articles here and elsewhere about Turnbull it is quite obvious the media are on a witch hunt. He should be recieving praise this week for putting his job on the line and showing leadership. Also agree with Peter@8.31am. I can’t understand how the media don’t realise that they have become so obviously biased. They got all excited yesterday and thought they had him, well once again Malcolm was triumphant and fights another day. Good on ya Malcolm!

    • Sherlock says:

      03:46pm | 26/11/09

      @sick of bull at 3.39pm

      I have two word for you - Europe and California.

      Both of whom have an operational ETS. Both of whom haven’t reduced their emissions at all. Both of whom have seen their energy costs soar far more then what our government has predicted. Both of whom have seen industry desert them for other countries with cheaper energy costs (or in California’s case other states) and there for now both of whom are nearly economic basket cases

      I’m not afraid of paying a bit more for a scheme that would actually achieve something. However this scheme is going to cost me thousands of dollars EVERY year and I don’t like paying that sort of money for a scheme that will achieve nothing. Furthermore if you seriously believe that the government is going to cover every family earning under $100k per year the full cost of this scheme then I have a bridge you may be interested in

      Also, who are these other nations that you speak of. Asia isn’t going to accept any binding targets. They’ve told us that umpteen times over the last 20 years including only last July. The US won’t get binding target through the Senate. Europe is already looking at weakening their failed scheme. Surely you’re not gullible enough to believe something tangible is going to come out of Copenhagen?

      Not a single person has explained to me why they’re prepared to pay more for a scheme that won’t achieve a damn thing. Not even you

    • pc says:

      05:01pm | 26/11/09

      HI Dave Hi teens,

      I completely agree with Maryln and many of the other posters who have a new found respect for Malcolm Turnbull. Try telling the super sweet sixteen that “their parents have only tried to do whats best for them” and as sherlock has shown they just keep stamping their feet and shouting at the family and friends that love them. I think the super sweet sixteen would like their situation described in a grander way. Isnt that just bloody typical of a super sweet sixteen,....sorry, I didnt mean that. Well OK grander…..

      The story of Oedipus, like the story of many orphans, is well known. Abandoned by his parents (after hearing a certain prophecy) he is found by a kindly shepherd and in turn passed to his future parents. Later, having grown up, he heard the prophecy he would kill his father and marry his mother. Upon hearing these prophecies he fled. On his way from Delphi he ran into a king. They fought (as kings and heroes do) and the noble was killed. Oedipus solved the riddle of the sphinx, freed Thebes and became a hero. His own mother was his prize along with (unbeknownst to him) his fathers crown. Later from the mouth of the shepherd Oedipus learnt the truth. Oedipus did not know the man he had killed on the road that day was his father nor the woman he slept with last night was his mother. How could he be guilty?  And yet Oedipus did not feel inncocent. He blinded himself and became an exile.

      There isnt much grander than the greeks and theres no greek grander than Sophocles. So before you kill your father or root you mother, think the story of Oedipus is not one to emulate.  What will the sceptics say and do when reality gives them new sight?

    • Duke says:

      05:44pm | 26/11/09

      Jenifer there is no such thing as a left-wing bias in the media (just check out the major newpapers and primetime news shows for proof to the contary). If the government comes across favourably at all it is because it is the government - the media naturally focuses on the entity that does things or effects change than the entity that merely reacts to it - e.g. a source on a new bill is more likely to be someone in the government if not the minister themself than a pundit from a think-tank or lobby group for the simple reason that space is scarce and the story must be communicated in the clearest possible way.

      As for Turnbull, he looks so pathetic right now and his party is in such a state of disarray - why wouldn’t the media jump on it? Personally I don’t fully trust a man who has the money and the arrogance to commission his own reports etc. privately, negating the role of the treasury and the public service. I think that kind of wealth coupled with that kind of attitude could be dangerous if he ever got into office.

 

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