Prime Minister Gillard’s reshuffle tops off her year of living dangerously.

Once upon a time these two knew what love meant…

She went out on a limb with carbon pricing, pokie reform, plain tobacco packaging and increased superannuation in spite of spirited opposition and has won the battle, if not hearts and minds, on most of them.

Poker machine reform is outstanding and continues to bite the ALP hard, especially in the eastern states and in communities dependent on local pubs and clubs. Ms Gillard’s decision to sacrifice the Speaker role is her way of gearing up for the pokies fight by mitigating the influence of Andrew Wilkie.

The Prime Minister ends the year with new blood in an expanded Cabinet, including a record number of women - five after Tanya Plibersek’s elevation to Health Minister - and the historic promotion of Nicola Roxon to the Attorney-General’s portfolio. Given the PM’s poor polling this week, the reshuffle, despite its positives (especially disability reform and mental health being given Cabinet status), is more likely to be characterised as shuffling the deck chairs.

Just as Ms Gillard has demonstrated some flair for progressive reform, she’s blown those credentials with her stance on same-sex marriage. She is a progressive thinker shamelessly pandering to traditionalists. It is unsurprising that people ask what she believes in.

After the ALP’s national conference decision regarding the export of uranium to India, no wonder some rank and file members are also confused about the party’s platform.

Opposition Leader Tony Abbott, on the other hand, may be true to his views on same-sex unions, but he negates his party’s liberal traditions by seeking to deny colleagues a conscience vote on the issue.

Mr Abbott’s attempt to capitalise on the issue (more specifically, on the division in Labor ranks), could backfire.

Shadow Ministers like Malcolm Turnbull and well-known equality advocates, such as Senators Marise Payne, and Simon Birmingham (in SA) will find their personal views tested and they should not be put in a position where they have to vote against their conscience.

We should expect supportive Opposition MPs to cross the floor.

As the original co-author with Andrew Bartlett of the same-sex legislation, my views on the issue are clear. What bothers me is not necessarily people who have an opposing view - that’s democracy - but hypocrisy when politicians vote against what they believe in.

Julia Gillard’s promotion of a conscience vote on same-sex marriage is about political protection and has little to do with conviction.

Mr Abbott also proclaims the importance of conscience: “Conscience is important. We’ve always respected the rights of conscience within the Coalition.”

Yet, he is adamant a conscience vote is contrary to his election platform.

We send men and women to war without parliamentary ratification. Even when there is debate, there is no conscience vote. But issues deemed “moral” issues, usually those considered too hard and with significant electoral consequences, are occasionally given conscience votes. Think stem cells, RU486, reproductive rights issues generally and euthanasia.

I find conscience votes are a good test of parliamentary rigour given all MPs are expected to consider the issue and read the legislation.

The ALP and the Coalition have shown they can’t handle a party policy on something as personal as same-sex marriage. Anything but a conscience vote under the circumstances is ridiculous.

165 comments

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    • Frank says:

      10:26am | 14/12/11

      can we move on….Parliament is no longer sitting…who cares…Rudd isnt doing anything other than plan his next trip overseas and anyone with any sense would know that Rudd has next to no chance to mount any takeover bid, it will guarantee Labor’s defeat at the next election, all of Victoria will go to the Greens lol

    • Michael R says:

      10:01pm | 13/12/11

      Gillard and conscience? She is the biggest liar in the history of Australian politics, without peer. A democratic fraud. She lowered the bar into the gutter with her carbon tax lie and then crawled under it herself. Labor and the independents are the unrepresentative coaltion: they have misrepresented themselves to their voters. A coalition of liars.

    • thatmosis says:

      09:36pm | 13/12/11

      Lets have a look at all the past Premiers of States that were female and their sudden and efficient demise. Now look at the only one standing and watch as she too is consigned to the wastebin of useless people and then reflect on the fact that our first female PM is also going the way of the Dodo and it would seem that being a woman in a position of power in Australia is a sure thing to get chucked out on ones ear and consign women to positions of lesser power for decades to come. What thinking voter would be game to elect a female to a high office when the track record of those already elected is so miserable and forlorne. Is there a subtle message there or is it that women in power overstep the mark and become arrogant and stalinistic, antagonise the electorate and generally run the states or country they rule into the ground.

    • Goodoh says:

      07:43pm | 13/12/11

      For once - and once only - I completely agree with The Punch, moderating with gusto.

    • The Labor Landslide says:

      05:35pm | 13/12/11

      Julia has the PM job that Natasha always craved and wanted ! She is jealous of Julia !

    • The Labor Landslide says:

      05:26pm | 13/12/11

      The Australian Democrats were worthless rubbish which was rightfully banished to the dustbin of history.The Obnoxious Outdated Australian Democrats didn’t know a bee from a bees foot about anything or anyone.
      The Australian Democrats still know nothing and offend all voters.
      Should Australian Voters bring back the Australian Democrats into the Senate and reinstate Australian Democrats control of the Australian Senate as they will solve all the problems of Australians and Australia ??.

    • cynic says:

      04:35pm | 13/12/11

      Sadly, this piece shows why the democrats are no more. They lost their way under nat’s leadership, tried to be trendy and show the future of the greens. In essence, you forgot all about mainstream voters nat and paid the political price, oblivion. You simply fail to assess the punter feedback about labor, they have no mandate for these changes and only get them through with greens and vindicative individuals like oakeshott, windsor & wilkie. That’s not representatibve of the wider oz public. Your absence is not really missed.

    • RyaN says:

      02:59pm | 13/12/11

      So much for “stable government” huh Oakeshott!

      Then again we all know it had nothing to do with stable government now did it wink

    • Brad Coward says:

      02:24pm | 13/12/11

      Oh, please !  The PM has shown time and time again that conscience is not a part of her DNA.

      The only way that Ms Gillard will ever have a conscience is if someone wraps one up in pretty paper and red ribbons, writes her name on a gift tag, attaches it to the parcel and shoves it under her Christmas tree.  Even then, I doubt that she’d know what to do with it. 

      As for the historical significance of our first female AG, well…..the historical significance of our first female PM has also been lost on me.

    • james says:

      03:59pm | 13/12/11

      L Rudd senile and out touch, very likely to get preselected for Slippers seat by the LNP smile

    • nossy says:

      03:00pm | 13/12/11

      @Against the Man   I like you ATM you Sir are a real soldier!

    • Marilyn Shepherd says:

      02:07pm | 13/12/11

      They are not dependent on clubs or pokies, they are just told they are.  It’s more like the clubs are dependent on being allowed to steal from the plebs.

      Gillard and the ALP have failed miserably in one key area - human rights and law.

    • jg says:

      01:27pm | 13/12/11

      Gillard can do anything she wishes.

      After all, there will be no consequences, the ALP will be decimated whatever happens.

    • Bernard says:

      01:08pm | 13/12/11

      Minister, it’s very dangerous to re-arrange the deck chairs, whilst out on a limb.

    • Paul C says:

      11:23am | 13/12/11

      She can rearrange these deck chairs until the cows come home, however it is still the same ugly outlook.

    • Flexo says:

      11:16am | 13/12/11

      Gillard reshuffle = Corruption = Bad for Australia = Bad poll result for ALP = 29% support for ALP = Minority of country don’t agree with Gillard/ALP = ALP gone forever after next election = Gillard is the best thing to happen to the LNP

    • Never a Democrat voter says:

      10:45am | 13/12/11

      No wonder you and your party got booted out on their arse. What a load of BS you wrote. Why is it so wonderful we now have a woman A-G. The evil woman has already said she is going to tighten discrimination laws so I can’t bitch about her. Is that progress. Is that democracy. Go spend your pension Natasha. With idiots like you who passed legislation - we are now seeing the results. Incompetence, corruption and destruction of human rights, wealth and freedom.

    • holden says:

      10:23am | 13/12/11

      I’ve been reading this site for a while now so I thought I would comment on something that has been apparent to me for
      ages. Well, since this make-believe “Carbon Tax” argument
      began.
      I liken the comment that Gillard made,“No Carbon Tax under a Government I lead”, to any politician saying “There will be no tax levied against people who do or not drink and drive under any Government I lead except for those drivers who are found to be above the allowable level”.
      Under Gillard’s plan I do not pay anything, even though I do contribute to the polluting of the atmosphere. No payment whatsoever unless and until I exceed prescribed limits.
      The ‘Baked Beans Brigade’, (they do repeat and repeat), know this to be true, but lacking a leader, and lacking the ability to actually come up with alternatives, they have no choice but to follow the ramblings of someone who clearly said, (and I paraphrase), “The best way to handle this problem is with a tax”.
      Gillard is not in favor of same-sex marriage. She is entitled to her opinion as am I. And you. She did, however, decide that it would be best resolved by a conscience vote. It’s called democracy. Instead of foisting a personal opinion on us she has said that this moral issue should be put to the people. We will be guided by our separate consciences, and we can inform our local member of that decision. That way, as the vote will say the vote will sway.
      Abbott glibly smirks, In the Liberal Party, every vote is a conscience vote”. He means Iraq, and Afghanistan, and Workchoices were all conscience vote matters, except that the people didn’t get a say. Of course, none of those contentious issues were “moral” decisions. Not according to the Baked Beans Brigade.
      So ATM, and SuperD, and TimB, and all of the other Beans jumping up and down, see if you can drag a new script from the main Bean which has something new, something original, something truthful which actually carries a message of hope for Australians. All Australians, not just the sycophants religously hugging the Priest’s habit(s).
      And don’t Prime Ministers usually reward loyalty? I know I do.

    • Flexo says:

      11:20am | 13/12/11

      Ask PM Rudd about loyalty, remember him? Australia’s last REAL PM!

    • Loula says:

      09:31am | 13/12/11

      The electorate isn’t interested in politicians’ “conscience votes” on minority-dictated policy about-turns that haven’t been put to the electorate’s “conscience vote” first. That’s not democracy; it’s totalitarianism by stealth.

    • Liz says:

      09:46am | 13/12/11

      Totally agree, like a bunch of children who have the key to a lollie shop but forget if they too much the key will be gone forever.

    • Robert S McCormick says:

      08:43am | 13/12/11

      If, as Julia Gillard now claims, the reshuffled cabinet is the “best possible” for Australia why has Gillard waited so long to bring these people in? They have all been in Parliament since September last year when Gillard finally formed her minority government. So why did she not appoint all these, allegedly, talented people to Cabinet right from the start?
      No matter how she spins it this reshuffle is the work of a Prime Minister who is not just grossly unpopular with the voters she is every bit as unpopular within the ALP. She has simply rewarded those who helped her usurp the Prime Ministership.
      This may yet prove to be another of Gillard’s Great Big Blunders.
      OK, she has 22 people in Cabinet who will, just as she repeatedly did with Kevin Rudd right up to the day before her betrayal, swear undying loyalty to her. There are still many dozens of ALP MPs who might turn on her.
      It will only take another disastrous Poll (the ones they always claim are irrelevant) for the back-room boys & girls in Sussex Street, Sydney, to decide she has to go.
      There is, as both the ALP & Coalition Parties have so clearly & repeatedly demonstrated, no such thing as Loyalty or Honesty amongst our politicians when it comes to the Power of being in Power.
      In this the Liberals are no different to the ALP
      Remember, it only took one or two Negative, albeit irrelevant, Polls for Paul Howes, Mark Arbibe, Bill Shorten & Julia Gillard to decide that Kevin Rudd had to go.
      If memory serves, there have been dozens of Negative, albeit irrelevant, Polls since Gillard usurped the Prime Ministership.
      By and large every single one of them has been a negative for both Gillard herself &, more importantly, the ALP.
      It can only be a matter of time before Paul Howes, Mark Arbibe and the ever-ambitious Bill Shorten decide that Julia Gillard has to go too
      Will we soon be seeing Bill Shorten going to the Governor-General’s residence to be sworn in as Australia’s next Prime Minister?
      Though currently lacking in the current PM & Opposition Leader, Bill has, seemingly, the only qualifications required to be Prime Minister.
      He is young, He is good-looking & he has heaps of Charisma.
      Prime Minister Bill Shortn has a nice ring to it!!!

    • Frank says:

      09:44am | 13/12/11

      too long think this is twitter and keep it to 160 characters lol #shortattentionspans

    • martin says:

      08:40am | 13/12/11

      Poker machine reform .... continues to bite the ALP hard, especially in the eastern states and in communities dependent on local pubs and clubs.

      WTF?
      Communities dependent on pubs and clubs? Since when? What do these clubs and pubs do that make communities dependent on them?
      Communities are dependent on charity groups to clean up the mess created by these gambling venues.

    • Bern says:

      08:40am | 13/12/11

      Adam Brandt of the greens asked for a consultative process in the community and overwhelming the community was against a change to the marriage act. So I think what Mr Abbott is doing is reflecting the voting public except where you have a high concentration of a minority group in a limited number of electorates.

      Yes Ms Gillard went a promise to the people to keep the marriage act as it is but now wants to change it by using a private members bill from her back bench. What a cop on and yet another policy backflip!

    • Dan Webster says:

      08:25am | 13/12/11

      Julia Gillard is the best female prime minister we have ever had. Kevin Rudd did come close though.
      (I’ve run out of positives now)

    • Alf says:

      05:42pm | 13/12/11

      @Dan. “Julia Gillard is the best female prime minister we have ever had. Kevin Rudd did come close though”.

      Yeah, Rudd was a bit of a girl.

    • Liz says:

      09:19am | 13/12/11

      Since we have not had any other female prime ministers that would not be hard to beat!

    • JennyF says:

      08:11am | 13/12/11

      I often wonder with portfolios. Do Ministers actually have to get across their job?

    • Jimbo says:

      08:05am | 13/12/11

      Usual suspects.  Same rubbish.  Schoolyard name calling.  Real debate and value NIL.

    • old fart says:

      07:52am | 13/12/11

      I see the ranting right are out in force today.  Natasha, come back let’s have a bit of class back on the hill.

    • hawker says:

      07:37am | 13/12/11

      Is there anything more boring than a cabinet reshuffle?

    • Alf says:

      03:56pm | 13/12/11

      @hawker. No point in Labor reshuffling, the Joker (AKA ranga) still comes out on top of the pack.

    • Frank says:

      08:15am | 13/12/11

      slow news day lol

    • Terry says:

      07:32am | 13/12/11

      Another historic first for Labor! Simple minds, Labor’s women folk is their only chance to beat Tony Abbott. First female PM, first female AG, first time 5 females in Australia’s biggest ministry. How impressive is that? Makes me want to vote Labor?????????

    • Aitch B says:

      07:28am | 13/12/11

      Prime Ministers reshuffle all the time - for valid reasons or otherwise. Nothing to see here, folks…... next!!

    • Arthur says:

      12:32pm | 13/12/11

      “If you can cite me anything concrete”

      Search “arthur” on your browser…....I’ve got plenty

      I’m not naive….I….. WAS ....a conservative voter but have recently decided they’re all self serving worst of the worst citizens that have run Australia in all tiers of government for a long time.

      I read a lot, a whole lot….I particularly like to read those that were smart enough to see the GFC coming…Those same very smart people have predicted most if not all other economic events in the past few decades….They now predict or rather state the western world is broke…..Add it all up and it spells disaster for our kids and grand kids. What are our politicians doing about it? The big stuff, gay marriage, poker machines, reshuffle….

      I’ve hardly ever criticised Abbott…but here goes….Where are his plans? What is his big vision for Australia…How is he going to make us different to other broke western countries. Where will our food come from when we are 50 million and all our farms have been sold while yields decline? Where’s his disapproval of a hungry growing global population? Where’s his criticism of the Greens lack of an anti population growth mantra…See they’re only in it for themselves…

      NOW is the time for a smart person with integrity to raise their hand, start a party and romp in…The last one, maybe not so smart ended up in jail….I didn’t agree with all her policies but she had conviction…..Katter’s got something going, he seems okay, but unbelievably he’s pro population growth…More self serving greed.

    • Aitch B says:

      10:21am | 13/12/11

      @Arthur

      I accept your opinion that on this occasion it is ‘otherwise’. However I do not accept your last paragraph. My attitude and that of many others has not contributed and will not contribute to your stated ‘absolute mess’. If you can cite me anything concrete I will listen and just in case you are wondering, I’m a conservative voter.

      It’s not apathy on my part… I care. However, these reshuffles are always a fait accomplit and no amount of bitching and moaning is going to reverse or alter what has happened. Hence my comment.

      It’s called ‘political expediency’ and if you honestly believe that Gillard is the first PM to rearrange the ministry to suit themselves and their political future then you are naive in the extreme.

    • Arthur says:

      09:42am | 13/12/11

      “for valid reasons or otherwise”

      This occasion would be “otherwise”

      This is a grubby politician making grubby moves to ensure her grubby existence.

      “Nothing to see here, folks…... next!!”...............This is exactly the attitude that has gotten us in the yet to be fully revealed absolute mess Australia is in.

    • Arthur says:

      07:27am | 13/12/11

      Australian politics is in terminal decline and will continue until we as voters either wake up or we become a third world country.

      Sensationalist? Look at what’s happening in other western countries. Add our household debt (something amazingly never spoken about) and we are worse than Greece.

    • Arthur says:

      12:42pm | 13/12/11

      “High skills industry”

      Asian countries will outsmart us there too…They’ve outsmarted us out of all our good assets, now they’ll begin to screw us in all sorts of ways.

      “As for taxation, this governments tax take as % of GDP is less than the last one” .....Let’s see how that stands up in years to come with a shrinking pool of tax payers, lower commodity prices….Lower wages…increasing elderly health bills..pensions….etc…a growing population to feed, house and educate…..

    • TimB says:

      12:26pm | 13/12/11

      James, who said that large amounts of private debt was good? Under Howard or otherwise?

    • james says:

      11:51am | 13/12/11

      @‘TimB’ private debt was good under Howard though.

      @Arthur
      Our only path is to differentiate ourselves. High skills industry is our best option to combat the mass effect of cheap Asian/Indian labor.

      As for taxation, this governments tax take as % of GDP is less than the last one.

    • Arthur says:

      11:28am | 13/12/11

      @TimB

      I agree with you both. Households have choices BUT the government allowed the banks to lend far more than is reasonable. It encouraged home ownership with all their BS grants and encouraged investing in housing with neg gearing.

      I couldn’t believe it when the bank approached us about 15 years ago encouraging us to borrow against our house to buy other depreciating stuff. It should not have even been legal let alone main stream…..The whole system will crash, there is no other reasonable, sensible or logical scenario.

      For me, I’ve been saying housing’s ridiculous for about 4 years…I missed a lot of profit having sold everything then.

      This is not going to unfold kindly…..

      Housing will crash beyond believable for most people. Wages will be nothing like what they are today.  Food will be ten times the present % of your wage it is now. Many present jobs that don’t actually produce anything will be gone. Unemployment will be huge. Social problems will therefore increase…..Greed is not good and no government we’ve had for a very long time has been any good.

    • TimB says:

      10:32am | 13/12/11

      @ ‘james’, I would think that households own the household debt. I know that detracts from the ‘Howard is to blame for everything’ mantra, but it’s true.

    • Arthur says:

      10:19am | 13/12/11

      @james.

      True James and both will be kept in luxury while the rest of us suffer a life time of work with very little left at the end of it. We’ll watch our kids negotiate wages comparable to Asian countries (who now along with the UK and US own most of Australia) and attempt to carve out lives that will be nothing remotely like we enjoyed.,.....

      As they continue to recruit welfare recipient voters, sell our assets, allow us to sell farms, mining, and continue to decimate our environment while taxing us to poverty. Real inflation will erode any efforts we’ve made to provide for our own futures. There is no plan in Australia from any politician I have heard of. They are all pigs with their snouts firmly in the troughs. A system has developed where only the worst of the worst rise to the top..

      If we were a smart country we’d be voting both the three main parties in to oblivion. But alas, we are anything but smart.

    • james says:

      09:55am | 13/12/11

      Howard owns the household debt.

      The ALP owns the public debt.

    • Arthur says:

      08:04am | 13/12/11

      Sadly what you say is all true John…

      People are starting to FINALLY realise how successive governments have sold us out. It’s going to be a cracking couple of decades to watch unfold….

      I say let’s see some politicians prosecuted for treason, fraud or whatever other laws that might apply to the grubs we have in all tiers of Australian politics..

    • John says:

      07:45am | 13/12/11

      1 Trillion dollars in debt. I looked at the debt all western country’s are in. Its seems all the western nations are under the yoke of the international bankers. Basically its very simple, money is created from thin air and lent out the europeans with interest, europeans are also banned from creating their own money. It’s a form of self enslavement. Anyone who wants buy, borrow, needs to go through these counter-fitters, it’ why in the west people are encouraged by. buy, buy, savings is pointless, since they just print the money. Money is basically unlimited, this why inflation is rising up all over the place, people are working and getting know where. There will come a time, where there will be no incentive to work.

    • George K says:

      07:26am | 13/12/11

      Conscience vote is an ALP thing for you can cross the floor against Liberal policy and not get expelled where the ALP you get expelled if you don’t follow the party view, so whi is more democratic?

    • Rose says:

      09:59am | 13/12/11

      It may be formalized in the ALP but don’t think for one second that crossing the floor for a LNP member has no repercussions,

    • thatmosis says:

      07:18am | 13/12/11

      It doesnt matter who or what writes about the Claytons PM we are lumbered with or what she does or does not the main thing is that she lied to the people and they will not forgive her for that. Australians will forgive just about anything but being lied to to gain the highest office in the land is without doubt the lowest one person could ever stoop to. Nothing will wipe away those infamous words,“there will be no carbon tax under a Government I lead” and the subsequent reniging on that promise to the peoples of Australia and thats the end story. Write what you like all you laborphiles and labor trolls but the facts are there for all to see. She is a liar, a backstabber and doesnt deserve one iota of respect from decent people.

    • Arthur says:

      07:12am | 13/12/11

      Imagine a world where our Prime Minister and other politicians worked for the good of Australia and not themselves.

    • Mouse says:

      09:14am | 13/12/11

      Ahhhhh, to dream Arthur, to dream!  :o)

    • TrueOz says:

      08:58am | 13/12/11

      @Arthur
      Wake up, wake up, you’re dreaming Arthur! It’s OK, it’s just a dream!

    • John Oh says:

      07:10am | 13/12/11

      Ms Gillard has lost the voters in the process of making her policies and will never see the light of day again after a while. Like most failures she will be locked out.
      A sad mistake by Aussie voters, a blot on womenhood and a pain in the ass where my wallet used to be.

    • Samantha says:

      07:00am | 13/12/11

      Looks like only the desperate and evil people of Australia continue to support Gillard, thank God there aren’t many of you left wink

    • Cookie Monster says:

      03:07pm | 13/12/11

      Kika - the ignorance and nastiness comes from both sides - stop being a party tragic and read todays posts from Eric the Red and Nossy -

    • Kika says:

      09:23am | 13/12/11

      Rose - that sums me up. I would vote for Gillard because hell would have to freeze over before I vote for Abbott. In saying that, if the libs dumped Phoney Tony I would have to vote for the Coalition for the first time in my whole life. If Joseph Hokeidonian or Malcolm Turnbull were leading they would have easily won the last election.

      I love how people without an eloquent intelligent argument resort to nastiness to do their arguing for them. Shows the mentality of Abbott supporters.

    • Rose says:

      09:06am | 13/12/11

      Many people not so much support Gillard but refuse to support Abbott, myself included. Calling people evil and desperate just shows you have no intelligent comment to make, so next time maybe put a bit of thought into what you are going to write.

    • Frank says:

      08:12am | 13/12/11

      evil people? wtf??

    • onlooker says:

      06:56am | 13/12/11

      Gillard is just a shipwreck in our history. We will move on and hopefully she will fade into obscurity, but for now we are stuck with it. It’s annoying but so is chickenpox but it eventually goes

    • Debbie says:

      03:13pm | 13/12/11

      So true @onlooker, but like Chicken Pox, it annoys the hell out of you and really gets under your skin while you have it, and you can;t wait to get rid of it!

    • AAAdam says:

      06:45am | 13/12/11

      Individual politicians consciences be damned! They are there to represent their electorates wishes, not indulge their own.

    • Markus says:

      02:18pm | 13/12/11

      You continue to hope, Rose, and I will continue to live in the real world, where politicians are not noble beacons of altruistic light.

      As I said, if their values were so dear to them then they wouldn’t be selling them out for the safety and security that the party line provides.
      Anyone claiming they are working to change the party from the inside is a liar.

      “Anything less makes them somewhat cowardly wouldn’t you think?”
      We are talking about politicians here.

    • AAAdam says:

      11:41am | 13/12/11

      “If you didn’t know the way your local member thought about issues such as this you voted without paying attention…your bad!!”

      No, their bad. They are in the wrong job.

      See my above comment - they are here to represent the electorate, not indulge their own ideals. They are a hollow vessel to be filled with the wishes of the electorate and carried forth to represent them. There is also an expectation they will keep any promises they have made to the electorate in order to gain their votes. This is how representative democracy *should* work. Because crooked politicians have tainted our representative democracy and twisted it to suit their own purposes does not mean we should accept or normalise such behaviour. Perhaps it is time to move on from representative democracy and go towards a direct democracy. After all, these days voters are highly educated (in comparative and absolute terms) and don’t need to choose a representative to stand in for them - a throw back to times when everyone was very poorly educated so they chose the one person who could read, write and had a basic education to represent them.

      As for attacking them for being populist - WTF? Being populist is just doing what the majority wants. I think that is a good thing in any democracy. And at the very least, even in politics, keeping the majority of your voters happy will always return you the most votes. Also, if you are being populist it will always be only a minority that are attacking you or unhappy - due to the very definition of being populist. So why would you hate them being populist? Or are you suggesting you know better than the majority what is best for them? Or that you just have a higher moral pedestal that makes you more right than them?

    • Rose says:

      10:27am | 13/12/11

      Actually, I would hope that if I voted for a politician who I knew was in favour of certain reforms, even though the party platform didn’t support their view, that they would fight to change the party platform. I would also expect them to take every opportunity to vote according to their beliefs. Anything less makes them somewhat cowardly wouldn’t you think?

    • Markus says:

      09:57am | 13/12/11

      “If you didn’t know the way your local member thought about issues such as this you voted without paying attention”

      Or voted on the seemingly logical assumption that the local member would vote along the party line upon which they were elected.

      If these MPs were so worried about their conscience, they wouldn’t have sold their soul to either of the two major parties to begin with.

    • Rose says:

      08:58am | 13/12/11

      Okay then, if they do abandon their consciences are people then going to attack them as being populist and without integrity? There will always be a time for conscience votes and this is one of them. If you didn’t know the way your local member thought about issues such as this you voted without paying attention…your bad!!

    • Mahhrat says:

      07:37am | 13/12/11

      This.  Like, 22 million times.

    • BarraBob says:

      06:38am | 13/12/11

      Julia Gillard may well have won some of the battles but I think it is becoming increasingly evident that she can not and will not win the war.

    • Alf says:

      10:49am | 13/12/11

      @Frank. It is easy to dismiss the ‘influence’ of polls. Kevin Rudd did.

    • Adam Diver says:

      10:18am | 13/12/11

      Opinion polls are time wasters but franks opinion is not?

      Hmmm, do I look at the broad demographic, statistically accurate summation of the populations voting tendencies, or do I go with Frank, the anonymous internet poster with all his wisdom on show.

      “At least Labor have ideas”

      1. Are you seriously suggesting the Libs have no ideas?
      2. Are you saying that the thought is better than the result?
      3. Do you have any sort of disclaimer on that statement? Do the ideas even have to be good, economical, positive or will any random thought suffice, to get Frank’s support?

    • Frank says:

      09:39am | 13/12/11

      opinon polls don’t determine the results of an election until an election is called Alf…till then they are its a timewasting exercise for number crunchers and filler for the media on slow news days…

    • Alf says:

      08:26am | 13/12/11

      @Frank 29% - that war.

    • Frank says:

      07:53am | 13/12/11

      which one? I think she is showing Tony for what he truly is a talker a brawler and nothing else, there are no creative or innovative policies coming out of the coalition…at least Labor have ideas

    • Joan says:

      06:38am | 13/12/11

      After promoting the disreputable Slipper the current shuffle is just as impressive.  -  Gillard commrades Arbib and Shorten the perfect quality match for a Slipper - the backstabbing liar has surrounded herself with simliar thinkers, types. - who abuse the Westminster system then use manipulative language to excuse and justify their lies , turnarounds,  and base actions.  For Giillard Conscience is just a word to be manipulated, to manipulate the unsuspecting public.  If Gillard had a conscience, Rudd would be leader, if Gillard had a conscience   there would be No Carbon Tax under the government she leads and it she and Labor had a real conscience then the Marriage Act would remain between man and woman as Gillard Labor promised at 2010 election. Gillard at 2010 election said `We have determined as a Labor Party the Marriage Act will stay unchanged, so marriage will be defined as it is in our current Marriage Act as between a man and a woman, and we have also said that the Labor Party policy is we do not want to see the development of ceremonies that mimic marriage ceremonies.`  In just a year Labor has turned around on the voters again and dares to use the word conscience. In 2010 while Arabs fight for truth and democracy in Australia 2010 truth and standing by word has been given the boot by Labor. Gillard and Labor have no conscience their word to the people at election time counts for nothing . This minority goverment is the most loathesome government in Australian history and made up of the most disrepected politicians of all time.

    • sandra says:

      05:11pm | 13/12/11

      Eric you are just so nasty—exactly like union leaders—that now I just laugh at your posts.  I have a 5 year old with more manners and decency than you. Joan—well said!!!

    • Martin says:

      03:00pm | 13/12/11

      Well said Joan. These terrible Labor turds run from the truth, so your little essay hit plenty of raw nerves.

      As has been evidenced here, Labor people waste no time in getting down to the gutter. This is no surprise.

      All you have done is highlight the total distrust that many have for this government and the reasons why.

    • nossy says:

      12:02pm | 13/12/11

      @Jaon - thank you for todays “Joans Moan” Joaney - Joan is from Adelaide folks so you have to excuse her - we luv ya Joaney!  hahahahaah

    • Flexo says:

      11:18am | 13/12/11

      Eric you are like a less demented but more fruity version of acotrel smile

    • Joan says:

      10:49am | 13/12/11

      The Bully boys out in force - nothing to say expect childish name calling. No real arguments to support minority government or Gillard and her henchmen . Gillard counts on mindless support of the likes of Eric the Red, yourname, Blind Freddy et al

    • Blind Freddy says:

      09:53am | 13/12/11

      @Joan

      Something for you to read over christmas while in your cellar waiting for the world to end.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paragraph

      Oh, and by the way- it’s still horrible up here in Labor Land so you should stay in your “panic room” for a bit longer yet.

    • Eric The Red says:

      09:09am | 13/12/11

      Wow Joan your other personalities in Terry And Rob agree with you. Who would have thought? But you need to watch Rob The Rat as he seems a bit retarded.

    • Terry says:

      08:21am | 13/12/11

      Joan the truth hurts! Parliament, the people’s house was dragged down to Julia Gillard’s level when a good man like Harry Jenkins was replaced by someone of the same inexplicable calibre as speaker. Today, like our first female PM the highest honorable job of the nation’s speaker lacks the integrity. Can only happen when Labor is power. Our PM - controversial, our speaker controversial, there is no time for the people because Gillard is too busy working out ways to reward those that got her where she is today and to remain there.

    • rob says:

      08:06am | 13/12/11

      Good one Joan. You are right in every way and don’t worry what losers like Eric and the idiot who doesn’t even know his name say.

    • yourname says:

      08:00am | 13/12/11

      Hi, Frank. smile Merry Christmas.

    • Frank says:

      07:51am | 13/12/11

      you can say what you want about comments made before the 2010 election but a hung parliament is a hung parliament, the Greens and Independants have a greater influence on policy in these areas (Carbon Tax, Gay Marriage (which Mike Rann started the ball rolling in SA on this one) and Pokies reform) this government is doing the best it can with the cards it was dealt, if you keep being stuck, like the Coalition, in the pre-2010 hamster wheel you will get nowhere fast.

    • Frank says:

      07:46am | 13/12/11

      wow yourname did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed this morning or did u just crack? there will always be a coalition leaning majority of readers on this site…it is if you remember a News Limited publication after all lol raspberry chillax man its the festive season buddy!

    • yourname says:

      07:17am | 13/12/11

      Sick of ridiculously extremist and unbalanced comments. Refuse to read them. Associate too long with the mentally ill and you are likely to turn whacky yourself.

    • Eric The Red says:

      06:58am | 13/12/11

      Hey you mob at the Loony Bin, you forgot to lock the gate again, Joan got out, can you please come and get her. Shes making a fool of herself again. It’s ok Joan, they will be around shortly and you can get your Meds. They have crayons Joan.

    • Erich says:

      06:32am | 13/12/11

      “in communities dependent on local pubs and clubs.”

      Which communities depend on local pubs?  Clubs, maybe, but pubs?

    • Paul C says:

      09:48am | 13/12/11

      We’re all dependent on our local pub - to drown away the sorrows we all feel each time we get reminded how bad this government is.

    • I hate pies says:

      07:52am | 13/12/11

      Lot’s of them - we’re a country of pissheads

    • CiscoKid says:

      06:20am | 13/12/11

      It doesn’t matter if she reshuffles the deck chairs or who is sitting in them ,this boat (SS LABOR) is going to sink .

    • Coop says:

      03:56pm | 13/12/11

      Was that Kevin Rudd’s sister I just saw jump off?

    • CiscoKid says:

      10:05am | 13/12/11

      Funny you should mention the end of the world Frank ,for i was only thinking about that yesterday.

    • Frank says:

      09:36am | 13/12/11

      Cisco that is if the world doesn’t end..

    • CiscoKid says:

      08:03am | 13/12/11

      Don’t worry by the end of 2012 they’ll be jumping ship and collecting their big fat pensions .

    • AAAdam says:

      07:48am | 13/12/11

      “Forward this on to Labor so they can start abandoning ship”

      They won’t abandon ship. They’ll go down with it. Gillard will be manically gripping the wheel while she fights for control while swashbuckling Krudd is trying to seize control of the ship, all the while Swan telling the rusted on passengers that everything is fine. Meanwhile, water is flooding the engine room after hitting the iceberg “carbon tax” and now they are heading straight for a the jagged rocks known as “gay marriage”. Yep, this ship will be their tomb.

    • yourname says:

      07:15am | 13/12/11

      CiscoKid has spoken. Labor is doomed. Years of effort and thought have gone into this comment. Forward this on to Labor so they can start abandoning ship. Thanks, genius.

    • Mayday says:

      06:11am | 13/12/11

      “Anything but a conscience vote under the circumstances is ridiculous.”

      The ridiculousness of the time and space wasted a subject that affects a small minority is titanic.

      Another global financial crisis is around the corner. 
      You compare the gravity of sending our people off to war with gay marriage…..please give it a rest!

    • Andrew Richards says:

      03:04am | 17/12/11

      @Danny B “Alright.  Provide me with one valid, non-religious argument why gay marriage should be disallowed? “

      Social structure and positive social engineering to be exact- the very things our society fails at now.

      It used to be and growing up in the 80s, I think my generation was on the tail end of the last vestiges of where this actually happened, that the family was about raising kids.

      The evidence that the family unit has lost that focus and impetus can be seen with the issue we have with a generation of lawless and anarchistic idiot teenagers with no moral compass in terms of a sense of common decency and absolutely no respect for anything or anyone.

      It’s been the result of absent parents who either are too busy working to raise their children and so their children become one of the “latch-key” generation, have either no mother or not father in their lives and therefore no sense of their place in the world, or are too busy trying to be popular to parent.

      The reality is that Lesbian couple or a Gay couple cannot properly raise a healthy well developed child in and of themselves any more than a single parent (as opposed to a divorced couple) can. The fact that responsible homosexual parents seek out someone to play the role of significant parental figure that’s an opposite gender to theirs, is glaring proof of this.

      That’s not to suggest that homosexual parents will automatically psychologically, sexually or physically abuse their child in any way shape or form. However the lack of a parental figure automatically being there who is the opposite gender to that of the homosexual couple, automatically puts that parental relationship in a situation where a form of neglect is continuously having to be staved off, by ensuring that that 3rd parental figure is somehow present.

      Sure, a pair of loving and committed homosexual parents will be far better than a pair of deadbeat heterosexual parents, but both of these fall short of where the bar needs to be set and are inferior to a loving and nurturing homosexual pair of parents.

      When you consider that the experience of having a father figure is far different from having a mother figure, this makes perfect sense.

      Every child needs a father figure and mother figure growing up to develop properly (in fact the old saying was “it takes a village to raise a child”), ideally biological so they get a sense of their roots and thus their place in the world.

      We used to have a responsible idea of what marriage was- a serious and lifelong commitment in an environment where children were ideally raised and was the central part of the family unit. Certainly there were gender role issues there in that old model, but ultimately it served to raise children who for the most part grew up with a sense of decency and their place in the world.

      Instead of that, we’ve moved into a culture where marriage is based purely on a notion of “if it feels good, do it” rather than actually taking vows like “for richer, for poorer, for better or worse, insickness and in health” seriously. Marriage has become like a pair of shoes bought in a store- to be returned in the form of a divorce the moment it all “gets too hard”

      “Irreconcilable differences” marriages happen for the simple reason that people stop treating their marriage vows with respect and working at their marriage.

      Yet we use that lowering of the bar now to justify the standards we set.

      By all means allow civil unions so that homosexual couples have the choice of declaring their union.

      However at the risk of stating a radical idea, let’s keep marriage for what it was meant for and actually save it, and our society in turn (if the marriage is the heart of the nuclear family unit, then by extension it is also the heart of society). Maybe then we can actually save the following generation of kids from being like the current generation of ratbags.

    • Markus says:

      02:09pm | 13/12/11

      “And the government is providing “tax benefits” to married couples because…”
      Because they (rightly or wrongly) think that it provides an incentive to pop out more babies to bleed for the baby boomers impending en masse retirement.

      “did the tax benefits arise before or after the government decided to get involved in the marriage business”
      After. The involvement in the marriage business has been around since the Constitution was written.

      You incorrectly assume I am supporting this control. I am merely providing answers.

    • TrueOz says:

      10:01am | 13/12/11

      @Markus
      And the government is providing “tax benefits” to married couples because…

      Hmmm, some more things for you to think through - did the tax benefits arise before or after the government decided to get involved in the marriage business? Did they decide to get involved so that they could provide tax benefits, or was there some other motivation at work - like additional ways to control the populace.

      On what legal or moral basis are the government expropriating the wealth of its citizens (via the legalized form of theft called taxation), and redistributing it to married couples - or anyone else?

      I could go on, but hopefully you get the point. Just because something has been “done that way” for a long period of time doesn’t make it reasonable, moral or right.

      Government regulated marriage and the Family Court system isn’t working for the heterosexual community. Why extend the problem by permitting the gay community to enter into a broken system? marriage needs a rethink, and like so many other things the government simply needs to get out of the way.

    • james says:

      09:58am | 13/12/11

      A conscience vote is democracy in its purest form, just ask Tony Abbott.

    • TrueOz says:

      09:48am | 13/12/11

      @DannyB
      Thanks mate. I love it when people keep an open mind and consider alternatives beyond “they oughta pass a law… !”.

    • Markus says:

      09:40am | 13/12/11

      “It might be better to ask for a non-religious argument about why governments are involved in marriage - straight or gay - at all”

      So long as couples are granted specific tax benefits and other entitlements from the government on the basis of their relationship status, they reserve the right to be involved in the determination of said relationship status (stati?).

    • Joan says:

      09:35am | 13/12/11

      Danny B: Both Labor and Liberals went to 2010 election on platform to maintain Marriage Act as is - between man and woman.  Labor has changed position so debate in community has only just begun.

    • Adam Diver says:

      09:19am | 13/12/11

      @ Danny

      ““Provide me with one valid, non-religious argument why gay marriage should be allowed?”

      It works both ways. One side simply needs to concede, and the conservative in me suggest that the status quo should remain. However I will be happy for the debate to end at some point.

    • Danny B says:

      09:19am | 13/12/11

      @ TrueOz,

      You do make a good point, I’d never thought of it that way.  Although it can still probably be seen that governments do need to keep track of who’s married to who, but you’re saying they should be an observer, rather than an active party.

      You’ve given me some food for thought.  Thank-you. grin

    • TrueOz says:

      08:51am | 13/12/11

      @DannyB
      “Provide me with one valid, non-religious argument why gay marriage should be disallowed?”

      You’re asking the wrong question Danny. It might be better to ask for a non-religious argument about why governments are involved in marriage - straight or gay - at all? Religious arguments are so stupid as to defy description. So are virtually all of the other arguments I’ve ever heard about the “necessity” to regulate marriage. The government simply has no place in regulating the intimate relationships of any human being.

      If the religiously inclined wish to get married “in the eyes of God” that’s nobody’s business but theirs, and that of the religious institution that provides the opportunity for them to do that. Let them go of to their churches and do their thing. Let the priests and religious ministers pick up the pieces when “the happy couple’ realizes what a dumb idea it all was - not the taxpayer.

      Others who wish to formalize their unions might be able to do so in any formal, or informal manner that they wish - but not at the cost of taxpayers when things fall apart (as they so often do)  through the ludicrous Family Court system. Let people sort out their own arrangements for the little brats that they’ve so thoughtlessly bought into the world. It isn’t the legitimate business of government to do this.

      People should be held accountable for the choices they make. That includes choosing spouses who refuse to divide equitably assets, or look after their children when a relationship fails. Think it through DannyB - and start asking the right questions.

    • Danny B says:

      07:55am | 13/12/11

      @ Joan,

      Alright.  Provide me with one valid, non-religious argument why gay marriage should be disallowed?  I think the ‘please think of the children’ and ‘slippery slope’ arguments have been debunked.  The first by studies showing that a child’s mental health and wellbeing is not related to the gender of his/her parents.  As for the ‘slippery slope’ argument, well, Canada, Portugal and a few other countries seem to be alright.

      I see no need for a debate where one side’s run out of arguments and running on empty.

    • Joan says:

      07:19am | 13/12/11

      Danny B: `There’s no need for this debate ` Backing stabbing, lies - not enough for you- now you don’t want debate-  a totalitarian Australian for you. . Meanwhile Arabs s have died to win the right to truth, debate and democracy.

    • Danny B says:

      06:52am | 13/12/11

      I agree completely.  There’s no need for this debate - just allow it and move on.

    • Super D says:

      06:03am | 13/12/11

      The candidates of both major parties pledged that there would be no change to the marriage act when they asked for their votes at the last election.  As a result a change to the act without reference to the electorate would be (another) betrayal in the vein of the carbon tax.

      There is a disturbing trend on the progressive side of politics that considers it ok to ignore election commitments so long as it is supportive of the views of the progressive left.  Consider for a second, had the ALP determined not to allow gay marriage, but to recriminalise homosexuality, subject to a conscience vote, would the progressive class be demanding Tony Abbott follow suit?

    • Chris L says:

      06:38pm | 13/12/11

      @Yuri - Actually marriage used to be between a man and several women.

      Also sometimes there would be marriages between a girl and a goat or a dog, but that was some sort of ritual to appease angry spirits or something.

    • Frank says:

      09:35am | 13/12/11

      @Yuri I love how you say Marriage was invented..like the light bulb, well light bulbs have changed over the years and the old incandescent bulb is making way for the fluorescent ones .... get with the times..

    • Yuri says:

      09:18am | 13/12/11

      @ yourname

      Just like marriage has been between a man a woman since it was invented.
      This is the nature of marriage. Get over it.

      My point is that just because something has been the same way forever, does not mean we have to like it, or cannot attempt to change it.

    • Adam Diver says:

      09:09am | 13/12/11

      “Get over it”

      Who cares if the underlying principals of a functioning democracy are consistently overlooked for the greater good (in the eyes of some only). I pity the mind that can not forsee a situation where the greater good may not be in thier own best interest.

    • yourname says:

      07:11am | 13/12/11

      Disturbing trend? You mean the one that started in ancient Greece? This is the nature of democracy. Get over it.

    • nossy says:

      05:54am | 13/12/11

      Well well well, lookie here reshuffling is not new girls and boys - even the great man John Howard did it - many times! When asked if he would be having a reshuffle of hIs “team” Tones Abbott was true to form when he answered “NO” hahhah aaahhhhh we love old Dr NO dont we folks. Yesterday I slipped in some rare praise for the old rascal and immediately was met with a flood of well wishers from Libs. Betty from Bankstown said “Geez nossy your cool man” , Lionel from Lithgow said ” Fank you nossy”, Martin from Sydney said ” Hey man way to go”  - well we have since learnt that blogger Martin actually works in Tones Abbotts electoral office so we might not count that one!  hahaha Hello Marty what have you for us today from the office of Dr NO? 
      http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2003/s955848.htm

    • RyaN says:

      11:28am | 14/12/11

      @john: Unfortunately for you and it has been said so many times, John Howard took GST to an election. This cowardly cur Gillard cares not for democracy and instead says one thing then does the other the next day.
      She has spat on our democracy and kicked sand in the face of the Australian people, all the while hugging, kissing and patting each other on the back for being good little commies.
      Gillard looks so much like Mugabe these days its uncanny.

    • john says:

      04:17pm | 13/12/11

      @RyaN- definitely some rippers out there-

      ““there will be no carbon tax under a government I lead!”

      “shit happens!”

      John Howard: “No, there’s no way that a GST will ever be part of our policy.”
      Journalist: “Never ever?”
      Howard: “Never ever. It’s dead. It was killed by the voters in the last election”.

      “By 1990 no child will be living in poverty”

      ‘‘I did not have sexual relations with that woman.’‘

      We all know who said them. Anyone that believes a politician should get a mental health check up.

    • RyaN says:

      03:03pm | 13/12/11

      @john: You mean like “there will be no carbon tax under a government I lead!” ?

    • ZSRenn says:

      10:10am | 13/12/11

      I have read every comment on this forum but see nowhere anyone saying Julia is not allowed to reshuffle her cabinet. You are correct in saying that she has. It is the timing and the removal of some very effective ministers combined the non removal of some very dud ones that gets me.

      But of course you very welded on Labor supporters know this and yet choose to ignore it. You would just prefer to run with more attacks on Abbott, because at the end of the day, you’ve got nothing else.

    • john says:

      09:04am | 13/12/11

      @Samantha “The reshuffle was a Gillard arse saving measure”

      Seems that she’s saving her arse and Tony is selling his for the top job.

      OMFG its gold, can politics get anymore hilarious?

    • Eric The Red says:

      07:47am | 13/12/11

      @ Samantha, Coming from a Lib/Nat supporter I take what you say as another Loony toon character from Tones Office. Samantha, Don’t worry Tones has a job waiting for him at the AIG ( Aust Industry Group) “his Union” as soon as he is flicked. He may even take some of his staff with him if you are a good girl.

    • Samantha says:

      06:58am | 13/12/11

      Eric you are an embarrassment to all things Labor. Maybe you can do the ALP cause a great service and just disappear. The reshuffle was a Gillard arse saving measure and a reward to her loyal but misguided minions.

    • Eric The Red says:

      06:41am | 13/12/11

      Yes nossy it’s ok for the Libs to have a reshuffle, But heaven forbid Labor to have one. The born to Rule Libs are so pissed off at not being in Government and they know Tones won’t get them there, I can’t wait for 2012 to come around so Tones can get shafted. Oh How Sweet it is.

    • Against the Man says:

      05:38am | 13/12/11

      Gillard will say and do anything to stay in power. She has created more enemies than allies. She has even flushed her reputation and the ALP brand down the drain in a clumsy attempt to stay in pseudo power. What about doing your job for the Australian people, Miss Gillard?

    • rightway rogan says:

      04:11am | 15/12/11

      Negative Nancy’s no to a conscience vote is a move to block a nonprejudicial vote This is secondary to his ardent longing to be crowned king of oz.

    • sunny says:

      10:12pm | 14/12/11

      Yeah @john you make a bit of sense form a pleb’s point of view. However when you’re elected to lead a nation, you suddenly find you have a giant weight to carry - you’re carrying the words that history will write about you. That’s some pressure. Apart from navigating/surviving the traps of the opposition not to mention your own party, you also have to make a positive difference to the country and the world. I think if you or T Abbott were ever elected to lead this nation, you would find yourselves saying ‘yes’ a whole lot more than you anticipate. Yes to things that become apparent and important - things that you have a whole new insight on - when you hold the future of 20 million+ people in your own hands.

    • nossy says:

      02:58pm | 13/12/11

      @john   I hereby proclaim you the sanest man in Australia John - well done fella!

    • john says:

      01:18pm | 13/12/11

      @nossy

      I’ve learned to say no too - all the time.

      It feels good. I’ve lost weight as well saying no to most foods, try it.

      No to junk mail, no to TV ads,  no to paying more, nearly no to everything.

      I say no before the question is put now. 

      I’m going to vote no. I’m not voting for anyone No,NO,No.

      smile

    • nossy says:

      11:55am | 13/12/11

      @Michael dear swet Michael - you surely arnt suggesting Dr NO is leading anyone at all are you fella?  hahahahahah

    • Flexo says:

      11:12am | 13/12/11

      Gillard/ALP hovering at 29% support. A record low. Take that info and digest it for a second. Anyone who is crazy enough to support Labor is crazy enough not to see they are going to drown with the Titanic failure of the Gillard/ALP combo!

    • Michael says:

      10:54am | 13/12/11

      Nossy, can you play chess at all? you are not four steps ahead if you are one step away from where your opponent has been leading you. wink

    • Kika says:

      09:38am | 13/12/11

      And of Abbot Against the Man? He has backflipped on his position on many things just to stay in his position. That’s the game isn’t it? Politicians - all of them - are only there for themselves. If they were there for the people they would be there for longer than 3 years at any given moment coz how on earth can anything of substance get done if politicians are constantly campaigning to stay in a job?

    • nossy says:

      09:28am | 13/12/11

      @Against the Man   shes a tough customer isnt she ATM? Much tougher than many people including Abbott ever expected and shes about 4 steps ahead of dear old Dr NO! I just loved the look on Abbotts face when Slipper was wheeled out as the new Speaker - game set and match to Gillard!  Ohhhhh how sweet it is ATM!

    • john says:

      08:49am | 13/12/11

      @Alf .... Especially if he plays with them all the time.

    • Alf says:

      08:04am | 13/12/11

      @yourname. Your testicles would appear to be the least of your problem.

    • yourname says:

      07:08am | 13/12/11

      Sick down to my testicles of extremist commenters who blow their gobs off while refusing to think or attempt any semblance of balance.

    • acotrel says:

      05:18am | 13/12/11

      ‘Mr Abbott also proclaims the importance of conscience: “Conscience is important. We’ve always respected the rights of conscience within the Coalition.” ‘

      It’s like watching a Marx Brothers movie !

    • davo says:

      05:32pm | 26/12/11

      But the Marx Brothers were humorous!! This lot make me cry!! Labor and the Liblabs Both!!!!!

    • Against the Man says:

      10:09pm | 13/12/11

      @ james - too funny because Gillard has no soul, no morals and no dignity and of course no conscience…....wink

    • sandra says:

      09:28pm | 13/12/11

      if you are so smart then tap him on the shoulder yourself—I am a swinging voter—not rusted on like you. But to even think of putting this Governemtn back it is sickening—and if you actually did meet Abbott—you would find him to be a decent man. What about you?????

    • Bomb78 says:

      10:17am | 13/12/11

      When - not if - members of the Liberal party cross the floor, they will not be expelled from their party. What’s the punishment if ALP members cros the floor again?

    • Frank says:

      09:33am | 13/12/11

      ok ok ok so Abbott = Groucho, Robb = Harpo and Hockey = Gummo! Entertainment!

    • james says:

      09:23am | 13/12/11

      Tony doesn’t have a conscience smile

    • don says:

      08:22am | 13/12/11

      Dear acotrel , please get your hand off it .

    • Alf says:

      08:03am | 13/12/11

      “Just as Ms Gillard has demonstrated some flair for progressive reform, she’s blown those credentials with her stance on same-sex marriage”.

      The Keystone Cops at it again.

    • VVS says:

      07:31am | 13/12/11

      Who doesn’t love Groucho…? He rocked!

    • Winston says:

      06:17am | 13/12/11

      You are struggling acotrel.

    • acotrel says:

      05:15am | 13/12/11

      ‘Just as Ms Gillard has demonstrated some flair for progressive reform, she’s blown those credentials with her stance on same-sex marriage. She is a progressive thinker shamelessly pandering to traditionalists. It is unsurprising that people ask what she believes in.’

      She is not ‘pandering to traditionailsts’. She recognises the level of influence that the religous right have in Canberra.  And that any PM openly supporting gay marriage will become an objective for their poison, and wouldn’t keep the job for long.

    • venisejb@bigpond.com says:

      07:27pm | 15/12/11

      The Catholic Church dictates how Tony Rabbit has to behave, and anyone believing otherwise must be living on another planet. However, I have to say that Julia Gillard’s opposition to Gay marriage puzzles me. Does she have an inordinate number of right-wing Catholics in her electorate? Or, as ACOTREL says it’s the shocking weight of the Catholic Church members of parliament. Certainly they wield power beyond even their numbers, large though they be. If this is the case, and causing Gillard to hold to her sudden right-wing line, they are holding the Australian Constitution at naught.

      There was a time when people acting against their government/monarchy was called to be a traitor, and treated as such.

    • Dave says:

      07:23pm | 13/12/11

      Can one of the Liberal Party stooges on here tap Abbott on the shoulder and remind him that he knifed the previous leader because he wanted to overturn an election promise.

      Oh and remind him that he double crossed Hockey at the 11th hour because he thought a conscience vote would give opposition MPs too much freedom.

      Much appreciated.

    • sandra says:

      04:56pm | 13/12/11

      And you rage about Abbott not allowing a conscience vote on one issue, yet say nothing about the fatc that the whole tiem labor has been in Government—no on is allowed to cross the floor on any issue whatever—regardlee of their belief . If they do—they will be expelled. Get of your high horse and get real—you write as if we are too stupid to know whats going on—but you are sadly mistaken. Look at the polls after the stupid labor social engineering meeting—people have maintained the anti labor / green rage and it wont change. We are brighter that YOU think!!!!!

    • Liz says:

      09:21am | 13/12/11

      Welll guess what the “political Christian Right” have just stopped supporting Julia Gillard because of yet another broken promise that she went to the election on.

    • mick says:

      07:56am | 13/12/11

      Stott Despoya was a political opponent.  You cannot take this blurb seriously.  What is sad that this is another ongoing attack from the media which is one sided.

    • Alf says:

      07:37am | 13/12/11

      @acotrel. So what you are saying - Gillard is just a gutless wonder who puts her job security ahead of her conscience? The whole gay marriage saga was involked by the Greens. Gillard just had to ‘go with the flow’, despite her opposing view. The ‘conscience vote was compromise.

      At we know where we stand with Tony Abbot.

    • yourname says:

      06:54am | 13/12/11

      Realpolitik?

 

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