Generation fame: when a real job just isn’t enough

Reg says:

06:55am | 30/11/10

Nothing wrong at all except that many are capable of much more.

In my post-war class of 30, there were three guys whose work and brain-power would have set them on the path to the highest plane except that in those days, a university education was beyond the reach of most. Not today.

I think the article is about reducing the amount of wasted ability and attaining a level of employment commensurate with one’s latent talents, rather than getting off at the first lucrative opportunity. Aiming high, instead of low.

Steve Wilkinson says:

07:42am | 30/11/10

You’re absolutely right - nothing wrong with either vocation. But it’s nice to have options should your dream job turn out to be a nightmare. An education (Year 12 minimum) provides this. In the lower socio economic area I was working, I found it frustrating (and still do) watching gaggles of young bleach blonde girls in black smocks commuting south to Sydney’s North Shore at 5.30am each morning to service well-heeled women who apparently completed their schooling and knew of the alternatives.

Seth Brundle says:

10:14am | 30/11/10

“a university education was beyond the reach of most. Not today.”
Don’t bet on it Reg.  With the cost of degrees beginning their upward spiral, expect to see education become the sole domain of the wealthy (again…).  I graduated in 2002 and have been working ever since, yet I still owe $20K, and it’s only getting worse for the current generation of students.  Kids with academic potential can no longer assume that university is in their future and may well have to settle for more mundane occupations, simply due to lack of money.

mum of one says:

10:15am | 30/11/10

I think the point is these professions should be viewed as the plan not a back up should the dream of becoming Britney Spears fail.  There is no reason why a trade role should be looked down on my husband has earnt us a pretty penny and a great lifestyle by following his dream of being a builder.  The difference is that was his dream not a back up.

Razor says:

10:28am | 30/11/10

Seth, you misrepresent your HECS debt.  It will be paid off over time through your slightly increased PAYG withholding.  The HECS debt is not assessed when you borrow for anything.  It is the cheapest money that you will ever borrow - it increases at the rate of the CPI.  If you never eeach the earnings threshhold then you never pay it off.  If you leave the country they do not chase you for it.  If you die it is written off.

HECS dets are not a burden and do not limit your ability to attend uni.

Most uni students will spend more on their mobnile phones, tavel and alcohol than repaying their HECS debts.

Steve says:

11:39am | 30/11/10

Most builders earn a lot more than me with my post-grad qualifications. I used to be told that going to uni and getting in to a respectable profession is the way to go. Now I’m telling my kids to get in to a vocational program at school and then get an apprenticeship an a trade if they want real money. What used to be considered the careers for the less gifted kids are now the more lucrative ones.

Jane says:

12:04pm | 30/11/10

Here here Razor. I have just finished paying my HESC and it didnt stop me from buying a mortgage or going overseas for 2 months or anything however without the course that related to that HESC I couldnt have got this job so couldnt have done any of that.

HESC is an enabler that permits kids with academic potential, regardless fo parental income, a chance of getting a degree. As someone raised in a household on a single parents pension there would have been no way for me to go to uni unless I won a scholarship (and my Yr 12 marks werent THAT good!) otherwise.

Besides which, you should not even notice the impact of HESC as it should be vanishing from your income before you see it. If you never recieve it you cant spend it.

Stella says:

12:18pm | 30/11/10

I agree Razor. At 30 I have just gone back to uni part time. I have a fulltime job, mortgage and the multitude of other household and life expenses and I dont even notice my increased HECS debt, nor have I ever since finishing my undergrad. What I do notice on campus is that even the kids without jobs who are living off centerlink benefits have the best of the best brands of clothes and shoes, up to the minute phones, ipads, ipods and laptops and cars. Not to mention smokes, cafe lunches and barista made coffee at $4 a go. Education is not for the wealthy it is my opinion that in some cases it is actually made to easy. We need all types to keep a well functioning society, the labourers and hairdressers are in no way inferior to the professional with degrees hanging on the wall. And before I instigate an equal rights pay argument, consider that university educated individuals still have to pay back their HECS and in general have a higher level of responsibility. This commands more pay.

Nick says:

01:42pm | 30/11/10

Razor - end of the day it still costs 20 grand to educate yourself.. paying it off over a few years doesn’t make it cheaper.

Personally I got my degree and have worked in the field for 3 years so far. I can tell you - the payments DO make a difference when you’re trying to balance a mortgage and all your other living expenses.

I don’t object to HECS so much as I think they’re targetting the wrong people. I went to uni with dozens of people who dropped out at various points in their degrees because they couldn’t be bothered anymore. Now after wasting everyones time they have to pay absolutely nothing back for their troubles as they aren’t likely to ever earn enough to do so.

How about those who get their degree and work in their field for x amount of years have their HECS debt cleared? Gives encouragement for people to finish their degree and then go and work in that field.

Considering most of what I know now I learned on the job, 20 grand is a bloody expensive piece of paper.

Reg says:

02:53pm | 30/11/10

Seth that’s not much more than the cost of a Hyundai Getz and you’re set for life. .As an apprentice I was on say 35% of a years wages for 5 years.  In the days I’m speaking of, the high school classes were divided with about 300 guys taking Industrial with a trade as goal, about 200 girls and 2 guy taking Commercial and about 7 doing Academic with the intention of going to University. That’s five years at about 35% of a full wage and hours of college and exhausting days.  All this compares quite poorly with going straight to a counter-jumpers job. Now in my later life I can see the advantages for me in having done an art course at Uni, would you believe it?   I certainly never thought that back then, the trade was the thing as a hang-over from the war and the depression. .

CJ says:

05:45am | 01/12/10

Money wins every argument and when these kids find this out they will find out that McDonalds are always looking for good people.

However let’s be honest is it not natural human instinct to believe that fame and fortune is your only option when your that young? It was for me. Nothing a wife two kids and a mortgage won’t beat out of them.

If it’s like this now what are their kids going to be like?

Jim says:

10:14am | 01/12/10

Top comment Steve. The sad fact is that no longer does a university degree come with a career attached. It is very easy to get into university and there is such a large number of “degree qualified” applicants on the search for fewer and fewer jobs as companies down-size. It is sad to see people unable to use their undergrad qualifications to find work , but I suppose that is all you can expect when just about anyone can do a business or arts degree. Getting a trade/vocation is one of the few ways people can just about guarantee themselves a job as there are few people and many spots to fill. What do you expect kids to choose…the chippy working 4 days a week and driving around in the Audi, or the uni-graduate serving coffee and riding his bike to work?

Erin says:

10:18am | 01/12/10

Gee, yeah I really hope that the person who builds the room my child will sleep in, or the hairdresser who is using toxic chemicals on my hair is one of the ones who did it as a “back up plan”.  Not everyone has the talent, creativity or ability to undertake those roles, and you will notice the difference in the quality of your hair, makeup, or carpentry if the 17 year old who did it was too busy lamenting the fact that s/he isn’t a superstar!

Bella says:

11:32am | 01/12/10

Steve, I disagree. I never went to year 12 and I started off as a check out chick. I am now 29 and a manager for an International Certification body. At that age you either dont know what you want to do or dont care I still cant answer the question what would you like to be, I just happen to like where I am. Maybe parents need to encourage their child more and teach them they can do anything with a bit of hard work and determination.

Gladys says:

06:59am | 30/11/10

Yeah, he was a bit derogatory about builds, wasn’t he? Considering there’s been a shortage and I’m always being asked if I know a good builder.

Keep building Paul. It’s an honorable job

KH says:

07:06am | 30/11/10

I don’t think he was having a go - he was merely pointing out that after the fantasy careers of ‘being famous for having no talent’, they would fall back onto careers that might be perfectly acceptable but don’t exactly require the IQ of Einstein.  Well they don’t, do they?!

Frances says:

07:42am | 30/11/10

The point is about the rise in talentless, egotistical half wits who think because they have a big mouth or boobs they’ll be famous. They use honorable jobs as their fall back when realistically they wouldn’t be bright enough, talented enough, passionate enough and certainly not motivated enough to carve out there future in real jobs. Steve isn’t having a go at anyone in these professions but has written a well crafted swipe at the loonies who put all their efforts and aspirations into being famous when they have no brain or talent.

CK says:

07:54am | 30/11/10

Apparently you are indeed a moron because what genus saying is he encouraged kids to choose career options such as building rather than simply aim for fame. Try being a little less over sensitive and actually reading before you comment.

Justin says:

08:04am | 30/11/10

Paul buddy, I’m afraid you’ve illustrated the point rather nicely. You may have a hand in buildings that may or may not stand the test of time (Let’s face it, they don’t build em like they used to.), but you come across as being semi-literate at best. Literacy an education are undoubtedly coupled, so aside from a very specific subset of skills, you don’t come across as painting a picture of a well read, educated and knowledgable fellow.

Dan says:

08:08am | 30/11/10

Although I don’t know if it was the writer’s intention, he has definitely cast some very nasty aspersions about builders (and I guess tradies in general), which is extremely unfair, considering how incredibly important they are to a society.

This article is a paradox. It accepts a kind of workers’ hierarchy (in that there are people “unskilled” enough that being a tradie or hairdresser is there only option) but then rebels against the concept at the same time (by suggesting that [certain] young people need to aim higher… but not to high?)

A very vague and rambling story, which I’ve got to agree is quite prejudiced against blue collar workers, such as Paul above, who enjoys his job AND makes good money doing it, while contributing to society…

MK says:

08:42am | 30/11/10

dont worry Paul you have a Real Job,
Steve here left his last real job (a cop) to grow his hair long)and is complaining about the interent and associated fame,
this from a guy with a blog http://www.stevebeingsteve.com.
He’s just jealous,
i wnet the uni route,  often i wish i could have been a builder or done a trade,
could have been a lot better off financially,
get to work hands on
then i remeber i get sunbunrt in like 3minutes, 30 mintues with sunscreen and i just would not survive in any outdoors job
unless i could work nighshift only

Mistaken? says:

08:50am | 30/11/10

hahaha Do you mean collar?

LittleG says:

09:12am | 30/11/10

Your sense of achievement is your own, due to having made something REAL with your own hands, rather than expecting a three minute clip filmed on someone’s iphone to catapult you to becoming a household name.
However, it would have been easier to get your message if you’d used a few commas in your comment. Punctuation saves lives!

EM says:

09:23am | 30/11/10

Yes Paul $85kpa is an ok wage, above average for sure.  However, do you earn that money working a 38 hour week, 9-5?  Or do you have to work overtime and odd shifts…  From my experience tradies have a lot more angst towards professionals than vice-versa; so you should learn to take what you dish out.  If you don’t like being on the lower rungs of the career ladder then get yourself to Uni and do the hard yards towards a real profession.  If this is not within your grasp then stop being so touchy and accept your lot in life.

alex says:

09:39am | 30/11/10

Any one who works with their muscles rather than their brain is an unskilled moron, I made 85k in two months and didnt get sweat stains on my shirt doing it, now go back to draining your schooner beer belly!

BenH says:

09:40am | 30/11/10

Dear Paul, I don’t think Steve’s article was meant to look down at your profession or 85k job. Although I doubt that Steve himself - as a “blogger, freelance writer and designer” should even talk about other’s future, I believe you rather prove his point. It’s collar not colourd - that’s a whole other can of worms. (Maybe you should of read the article rather than taking a fence at what Steve said and could of said.)

Evie says:

10:05am | 30/11/10

He wasn’t having a go at builders at all! The point he was trying to make was that these kids think they can just fall into a profession like building or hairdressing because they think it’s easy, fun, glamorous etc (and we’re talking about teenagers here) - but, like any other profession, you still have to put in the hard yards to make money and get anywhere. But these kids thing they can be simply entertaining and be praised and paid for it.

Norton says:

10:22am | 30/11/10

@MK tell us ‘i wnet the uni route’... Oh really?
Mate, either you’re a very, very poor advertisement for our education system or you typed your post one handed while eating breakfast and riding a bike. I hope it’s the latter or I’d be asking for my money back.

Lucy says:

10:26am | 30/11/10

You just proved everything you were trying to disprove…

Kelly says:

10:28am | 30/11/10

@EM are you serious?? I bet your one of those elitist types who think tradies should be thankful; there are people like you out there to show them how good their life could be. 
My husband has spent years in formal training to be a builder and licensed roof plumber, both trades that rely heavily on mathematics and problem solving.  Could you work out the exact angle in your head that a roof sheet needs to be cut at to ensure it fits perfectly minimising wastage and ensuring the integrity of the roof?  Or could you order the exact amount of materials needed for a job by simply reading the plans?? I highly doubt it.  For those of you who have formed the opinion that a tradie is moron because he doesn’t wear a suit a work why not spend some time thinking about what they do!  That house you live in was built by a number of tradespeople, the office building you work in again build by trades people, the car you drive, the tram you catch built and serviced by tradies.  Your lives are in their hands more times than theirs are in yours.

David says:

10:35am | 30/11/10

Ben H,

Perhaps it would be best to be very careful of your spelling before having a dig at other people.

Taking “a fence”, oh dear.

Georginorx says:

11:05am | 30/11/10

Justin, you have a point.
Paul would have been better off arguing that education is not a sole measure of a person’s qualities, and that a lack of education doesn’t mean that you’re incapable of thought or that your work lacks meaning or skill.
That’s not to say you can’t find builders with Uni degrees that prefer the builders’ lifestyle and pay. It just looks like Paul isn’t an example of that scenario.
A good builder is hard to find - are there educational requirements for being professionally recognised and certified as a builder? If not, there probably should be.

stephen says:

11:22am | 30/11/10

You must be the blue singlet i keep beating at pool at the Normanby and don’t pay his ‘game’ fees.
(Any builder earning that money can now pay for the table and my beers).

PS Army personnel excluded : you don’t earn enough.

Jay76 says:

01:34pm | 30/11/10

I think you meant to type : sense, achievement, un-skilled/unskilled, believe, blue-collar, schooner.

And capital letters are used to indicate the start of a sentence, or for proper nouns. Languages other than English can vary a bit with their rules of capitalisation.

BK says:

04:28pm | 30/11/10

Tradies are cleaning up now, but it won’t always be that way. There was nothing special about having a trade up until about ten years ago. Suddenly, there was a massive shortage of them. I predict that demand for building trades will eventually disappear as fast as it appeared.

Cloud Strife says:

07:53am | 01/12/10

I have a huge amount of respect for tradies - it’s not a job I could do, maths baffles me and if I tried to fix anything electrical, I would probably get dead.

No matter what your field, you are doing a very important and essential job.

EM says:

01:23pm | 01/12/10

@ Kelly, oh please I could do that in my sleep.

I’m a highly educated and highly paid professional.  Problem solving is my key skill area; and we’re taking real problems, problems that are costing corporations millions of dollars a day, not how much tin needs to be put on a roof…

I have a PhD in Physics, something I did for fun, so your husbands “I can calculate sums in my head” skills are not that impressive to me; when he has a PhD in Mathematics we’ll talk.

Tradies have skills, no one doubs that, but they are not in the same league as an educated professional.  If that sounds elitist then so be it.  I can run around a track fairly fast, but you don’t see me having a cry because elite athletes can run around it faster…

Scarlett Street Rocker says:

08:49am | 30/11/10

As a tradesman (Painter and decorator) with a degree (Bsc (Hons)Speech Pathology) I couldn’t agree more.

Geoff says:

09:01am | 30/11/10

Except when he can’t do his BAS or Stuffs up a project or needs a design for the house. Then you realise why you went to uni and take back all that cash you forked over to him for the reno.

Jim says:

09:07am | 30/11/10

Spot on Drew…2 kids start school together, one leaves in year 10 and takes up an apprenticeship. The other does another 2 years at school then 4 years at uni. He then starts the ‘unofficial’ apprenticeship which can go from 1 to 6 years, depending on the job. That means the first kid by that stage either runs his own business, or is managing someone elses….has his own house, car, family. The second is mid- to late 20’s and just starting out.
I disagree on the skills shortage though - it’s a myth. The only shortage is a take up on union memberships….that’s all it’s based on.

Muttley says:

09:47am | 30/11/10

Geoff, what a load. Honestly, how many tradies do you think cant fill out paperwork. Is it just because they didnt go to big school like you champ? Whats the bet you are another of these “modern” fellows who can cook and iron and yet would be lost if you had to change a tyre or carry out a repair.

James1 says:

10:06am | 30/11/10

Perhaps Jim, but at 24 the tradie will reach the pinnacle of his earnings - he will most likely never earn more than that for the rest of his life.  The university graduate, on the other hand, is at the bottom of the ladder, and his earnings will only ever go up…

aliqius says:

10:28am | 30/11/10

Jim, can you really say in this day and age that leaving school at year 10 is a great idea. Sure, it means more money initially and if all goes well a person can be set up for life. BUT what happens if that person loses their job or their skill is not as in demand as it once was? What then do they have to fall back on when they haven’t even finished high school?

Surely finishing high school is an advantage in any profession. And if it ever went pear-shaped it is at least a gateway to other options. I definitely value the career choice of tradies, but it doesn’t hurt to keep your options open and there’s nothing wrong with an education and a trade qualification either.

Cloud Strife says:

07:56am | 01/12/10

I never finished my degree - went out and got a job after Second Year - and earn more than my uni peers, 15 years on.

Nick says:

08:55am | 30/11/10

Im not sure where you got your list from, but every list I’ve ever seen of in-demand jobs always features accountants somewhere near the top.

Smidgeling says:

09:23am | 30/11/10

Nick’s right. Accountants have been high on the list for ages. Less so now that thousands of people saw it as an opportunity, but it still ranks high.

Macca is right that tradies are in short supply though.

Baz says:

09:48am | 30/11/10

Nick. As an accountant I can say it is not a good option for a career. We may be in demand but the pay is only average most of the time. I will be steering my children away from it for sure.

Nick says:

10:35am | 30/11/10

Baz - as an accoutant I can quite easily say that I’m very happy with my career choice

Public pratice is a great place to start and having an accounting background opens up stacks of doors later in life.

Smidgeling says:

01:22pm | 30/11/10

Baz- poor you. My mate is on $80k a year our of uni working as an acccountant in the public service.

Reg says:

08:44pm | 30/11/10

Macca here’s how I see it from the job seekers point of view,  the work areas are fairly well defined into office support, service tasks, and productivity and research jobs. Productivity makes things for home consumption and for export while research, works out how to make them better and more easily. For me, research is top dog. Read NBN.

Even doctors and hospitals are service jobs, no matter how saying so may bruise their ego’s. Journalism? Another service industry, hardly productive. <snicker>

Then there are the inside and there are outside jobs. The purpose of service tasks are to support productivity and research. A university is a service emporium for the productivity and research industry, not really for the service industry and that includes accountants, hairdressers and politicians. Lawyers and policemen of course have a negative coefficient of productive and are therefore merely service industries as well. Taking the whole picture into account, it is fairly obvious that what is needed is an orchestrated resolve to reduce the service requirements to that necessary only to address an unexpected calamity. NO, ... let’s not look at QANTAS.

The great distraction is that each category in society is determined to be seen as the most important when instead it should be clear what the goal is so that all can pull in the same direction rather than multiple different directions. If the adults can’t see this, then no wonder the kids find it difficult to picture. Competition might have it’s place but in summation it is counter-productive resulting ultimately in stagnation.

What the says:

04:22pm | 01/12/10

“Hairdressers also ranks highly on the most sought after professionals”

Since when were hairdressers classed as professionals?  They’re skilled labour at most.

Reg says:

09:23am | 30/11/10

Look at the undiscerning public that fauns after them. So ask yourself, is it a “low values” public seeking a barely perceptible entertaining value or a public that is easily led? Where’s this stirring Australian independence we keep hearing about, the one that enables them to see through bullshit and shoot for better things? It’s a myth apparently, for the majority anyway.

John Smythe says:

10:26am | 30/11/10

Reg, the Australia I know, and you describe above, pretty much died out with the introduction of satellite TV. Australia has become so Americanised, and brain washed into believing reality tv, is actually about reality…..it’s two sides of the same coin….media keeps force feeding that crap, and the public, with the crap everywhere, has become to not only accept crap all around them, but demand more of the same crap!

Nick says:

09:00am | 30/11/10

Rubbish. Have a look around you and you’ll see plenty of young people busting their guts to see themselves through uni, deal crap appretice wages and just generally try NOT to sponge off their parents. Most people I know that are my age (early 20’s) worked (or are still working) 20-30 hours and more while studying full time, or put up with shithouse appretice wages for 4 years just so that they could get through uni/trade.

Generalising people based on their generation is about as useful as generalising people based on their race or religion.

Reg says:

09:33am | 30/11/10

There’s a lot in what this guy says in that a lot of kids these days are brought up in families of better financial circumstances than 70 years ago. Even apprentices have a better wicket these days and there is not the frantic drive by kids to earn something to pass to the mother of the family whose father has died. The kids get it easy. I did a FIVE year apprenticeship that started on 20% of the wage of a tradesman and was still only 25% in the third year when I was worth a lot more than that to the employer.  Now it’s 4 years on much better pay I believe but probably still not enough to attract kids away from the other relatively easy money.

introspection rocks but is lacking says:

09:46am | 30/11/10

ummm whats the starting salary of an apprentice? or the university graduate? then compare to the cost of living and buying a house, why wouldnt you stay at home till you save a deposit or while its still financially feasible? Its nice to conveniently forget the generational gap, i should come up with a term for it, how about, post-generational cognitive dissonance?

aliquis says:

10:37am | 30/11/10

I agree with Nick. As a member of this “bludger” generation I can tell you that myself and my peers have all worked hard to get where we are (school, uni, apprenticeships and otherwise). The only Gen Y members that garner any attention are the lazy sponges - that’s why you think we are all like that!

Furthermore, as introspection rocks but is lacking says, why not help your kids out? I’m not saying they should hand over cash to their adult children who sleep in until 1pm everyday, but a helping hand is not out of the question.

And finally, I’m sure people from the generations before you thought your age group had it easy! You cannot criticise people because they were brought up in a different time. Of course we function differently in society, we have things that you did not. Generations to come will see and live through things I cannot imagine right now. I hope I can maintain an open mind and try to see things from their perspective, even when I am old and cynical. Time will tell.

aliquis says:

10:38am | 30/11/10

I agree with Nick. As a member of this “bludger” generation I can tell you that myself and my peers have all worked hard to get where we are (school, uni, apprenticeships and otherwise). The only Gen Y members that garner any attention are the lazy sponges - that’s why you think we are all like that!

Furthermore, as introspection rocks but is lacking says, why not help your kids out? I’m not saying they should hand over cash to their adult children who sleep in until 1pm everyday, but a helping hand is not out of the question.

And finally, I’m sure people from the generations before you thought your age group had it easy! You cannot criticise people because they were brought up in a different time. Of course we function differently in society, we have things that you did not. Generations to come will see and live through things I cannot imagine right now. I hope I can maintain an open mind and try to see things from their perspective, even when I am old and cynical. Time will tell.

Georginorx says:

12:50pm | 30/11/10

Thanks Introspection, I’ll be using that phrase!
“post-generational cognitive dissonance”

Juliet Delta says:

03:20pm | 30/11/10

Agreed, I think the main point of the article is not to belittle hairdressers and tradespeople, the point is that (a great majority of) Generation Y and those on the cusp of the next generation don’t know the meaning of hard work and how to make an honest living.

thatmosis above is not saying that ALL young people have the same attitude, but just that a growing proportion do.

I am (not so proudly) a member of Generation Y - I’m 24 years old - and I am disgusted at my fellow Yer’s attitude to life and work.

Working in recruitment, I see these young people jumping from job to job after just a few weeks because ‘I’m bored’ or ‘the pay is too low’ or for some other completely unknown reason they just don’t show up for work one day and decide to resign. Where is their sense of respect for others. We are becoming a society that thinks too much about ourselves and less about others, and the younger generation is driving this trend.

bill says:

08:43pm | 30/11/10

At juliet delta “(a great majority of) Generation Y and those on the cusp of the next generation don’t know the meaning of hard work and how to make an honest living.” You have got to be kidding me ? Such a naive thing to say.

John Smythe says:

08:50am | 30/11/10

Jade, and a few others of you, I think you miss the point completely.

Steve isn’t personally having a go at tradies, it’s the drop-outs that use trade vocations as a safety net. It is they who are the ones casting a low opinion of such vocations. “Well, if i can’t make it as a wannabe talent, I can always do xyz”

Do you see any aspiration behind the choice of xyz? I thought the point of highlighting should builders and hairdressers becoming saturated professions that the next step would be to drop to being a checkout chick or go on the dole.

Those who chose those professions chose to do so for the rewarding careers they are.

It’s the lack of thought behind ANY chosen career that Steve is having a go at. Doesn’t take a uni degree or two to notice that.

Jade says:

09:36am | 30/11/10

“It didn’t matter how many viable and potentially more satisfying career alternatives I put forward, they were steadfast in their dreams.”

From the article. The author makes quite a point of the fact that he simply didn’t believe that the students’ “fallback careers” as tradies would be as satisfying as something requiring a university degree. He implies that the students whose fallback careers involve something more intellectually challenging (in his limited view) are more acceptable. Even if they have never considered an option other than law, or engineering, or medicine. And even if they might not be the most capable.

I hate to inform the author, but most of us at 14 and 15 dreamed of being famous. And even for those of us who went to uni and got into “more satisfying career alternatives”, these are a fallback career.

Since I didn’t get discovered walking down the street and whisked off to New York to model, and I happen to be tone deaf, and in the sport I chose to play, there’s not a lot of money to be made, I elected to go to uni to study arts and teaching. I’m going back next year to get my MBA. But I would give it all up in a flash if I got the opportunity to be the next big thing and make a quick million or two.

John Smythe says:

10:42am | 30/11/10

Good point Jade.

The way I interpreted the quotation above, was more rewarding and satisfying than being a talentless talent, perhaps my bias there, not in the way you elaborate above to mean more rewarding than the trade professions mentioned.

I believe he is still indicating that there was little thought to actual career paths, and that by choosing building and hair dressing it was a knee-jerk response to, “if I have to decide on a career, then I want to be….”. Which emphasises why other career paths were just not in the picture for the target group.

When these professions get saturated, again my interpretation, indicates that it would then be harder to get into the profession itself. So rather than apply themselves to achieve whatever qualification is required to become a tradey, the option would be to drop down to the next “easiest” thing. Easy here again, is not an indication the profession itself is effortless, but the entry thereto, is a lot less rigorous. (no exams, no qualifications).

We all want to be big in the world, but an underlying theme here is not so much the path that the kids are indicating, be it talentless talent, or tradey, accountant what have you, it is more the lack of commitment or true passion.

It is the last two that actually sees anyone succeed in whatever path they choose.

Ben C says:

11:03am | 30/11/10

Agree completely John, builders and hairdressers (and other trades) are valuable to society, if performed by those that are passionate about it and willing to make a real go of it.

As John said, it’s the thought process (or lack thereof) that brings these trades down - I’m certain that those already in the trade do not want to be an afterthought for those who were too lazy to think of their careers in the first place.

Jade, what you did with your students is taught them that whatever career they choose, it still requires a lot of hard work and a lot of thought. Steve’s point is that there is not enough consideration amongst the kids he’s dealt with of the amount of effort required in whatever they choose to do.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but my understanding of this sentence: “It didn’t matter how many viable and potentially more satisfying career alternatives I put forward, they were steadfast in their dreams.” is that Steve was not referring to the trades being chosen as fall-back plans, he was referring to the fame game that the kids were so keen on.

Jade says:

11:26am | 30/11/10

Yet neither of you address the point I made that for almost all 15 year olds, the profession that they end up in is a fall-back profession. By suggesting that the student who chose a trade as a fall-back somehow was more narrow-minded or blind to their options than the student who chose the pursuit of a law degree, flunked out, and ended up working a dead-end mailroom job because he didn’t see any other options as viable is wrong.

Many, many students who go to university and pursue careers in fields such as law, engineering, teaching, nursing and business don’t do so because they have a broader view of their options. It’s because thanks to the attitudes of the author and other commentators, they don’t view trades and the like as options in the first place. They go to uni and do a business degree because that is what their family expects of them.

I don’t think any 15 year old honestly dreams of becoming an accountant or a lawyer or a marketer. I think they all dream big, and whether it be plumbing or politics, beauty school or business, fitting and turning or financial management, electrical apprenticeship or engineering; they are all choosing the fallback. And in most cases with the exact same amount of consideration. And all the options are equally valid.

I find the suggestion that people inclined to the trades if their dream job doesn’t work out will end up on the dole, or on a lower-down-the-rung job due to increased saturation deeply offensive to those who choose a trade. It suggests the stereotype that they are lazy, and choosing the “easy option” rather than recognising the effort, energy and extensive time that tradies put into their apprenticeships to become qualified.

John Smythe says:

12:10pm | 30/11/10

Jade, I think that’s a point you are trying to labour, not what the article is actually trying to depict. I may not disagree, but my comments were within context of the article presented. How many 15 year old kids realistically pursue those initial dreams, that would validate your argument? The role i have now is one I would never have though of, even in my 20s.

Maybe I’m reading the article at a whole different level, but the argument that I see in the article isn’t so much about how many kids go through to realise their first choice of occupation, but more an indication that kids are deluding themselves to the point, no other considerations are made. The claim to fame is much “easier” these days when the name of the game is about how many “friends” you have on FB, or how many hits your youtube video generates.

Does that seem feasible to base your future upon? Some made up reality pushed down our throats through the media?

I’m not sure if it’s a fault of wording or not, but I still don’t see why you are labouring on the point of looking down at trade related professions. If anyone is at fault here, it is the kids who ae looking down at trade related professions as “oh well I’ll just be a tradey if I can’t be a superstar!”

As is clear in some of the comments so far, we adults, DO value the trade professions as just as rewarding careers.

Georginorx says:

12:59pm | 30/11/10

High 5 for a good conversation here
Great sentiment and logic all round. I feel smarter just reading this stuff.
I wish the rest of the internet was like this. Jade and John, do you have blogs? Maybe you could do a joint debate blog!
Yay debate

Jade says:

01:39pm | 30/11/10

John, I agree with your point regarding the fact that the author appears to be concerned about students deciding to be a tradie if their other dreams don’t work out.

What I dispute is that this is somehow worse or less of a valid choice than the student who says, “Oh well, if I don’t win Australian Idol/become a famous footy player/actor/model, I’ll just go to uni and do a business/law/engineering/teaching degree.” To me, the mentality is exactly the same. Why single out those students who elect to enter the world of trades from the same frame of reference, rather than addressing the mentality as a whole?

That is why I “labour the point” that the author appears to look down on trades. Because he is singling out one choice as being negative and myopic and ignoring the fact that the choice he promotes can involve just as little consideration from students that choose that path.

Georginorx says:

01:52pm | 30/11/10

“I don’t think any 15 year old honestly dreams of becoming an accountant or a lawyer or a marketer.”

@Jade - when I came up with career aspirations, I wanted to be creative and take advantages of my academic strengths. So after high school, I pursued studies in Marketing and found them very rewarding.—Until I graduated and tried to find a Marketing Graduate position in Adelaide. Turns out I was dreaming big, but that’s another story.
Point is, I did want to do Marketing. And 5 of my friends all wanted to do Law. I can’t say whether any of them wanted to be famous though…
It’s worth noting that there was a social expectation in there that if you did well in school you went to Uni.

Jade says:

02:09pm | 30/11/10

@Georginorx - When I say that I don’t think a 15 year old dreams of becoming a marketer or an accountant or a lawyer, I mean that they don’t dream of it. That they may have chosen one of those professions as something to do at university that is interesting and achievable is one thing, but if you ask those children what they really want to do with their lives, more often than not you receive the same answers as those aiming to be welders or chippys or sparkys or mechanics. They all want to be rock stars. And the uni degree is settling for a realistic dream instead of an unrealistic one.

You also mentioned that there was an expectation that if you did well at school you would go to uni. It is this mentality that this expectation is acceptable, and encouraged, while the other is not that I take issue with. As I said, the mentality is exactly the same, regardless of the student’s proposed final outcome.

John Smythe says:

02:56pm | 30/11/10

I see where you are going with this, and it truly is a very valid topic. Perhaps one for a followup article?

Steve/Wilko/the author simply states that no other myriad of choices suggested were considered (by the kids). We don’t know what that myriad contained. That or I need glasses….it was the kids themselves that fell back on builder/hairdresser…..and on *that* note alone, I haven’t seen anyone jump on the gender stereotype role yet!

Is the default to trade professions simply a result of the miss-conception that university follows directly after senior high? And if you dropped years 11/12 for your 15 minutes at fame before the same media that placed you upon the pedestal, then spat you out the back end, you couldn’t later go to university?

Or simply the miss-conception, again, that anyone can just walk into a trade profession? (not impossible, but to actually then remain in said profession)

One thing that has been very clear in the responses thus far is that $$ don’t follow degrees….they follow true and earnest effort.

To be honest, I really don’t know the answer as to why kids today would see trade professions as a “drop out/back up plan”. Whether it be the race to the one with the most FB “friends”, or the most hits to the latest “song” they’ve done on YT, or that trade professions are “easy”, either way, kids of today are deluded about reality.

And brings me back to an earlier comment about how since the introduction of satellite TV, (remember it took longer for us to get broadcast rights, and “Australianise” yank shows before then) we are seeing a false reality setting very wrong and misguided expectations for our kids.

Jade says:

09:44am | 01/12/10

John, as I said, the mentality behind, “If I don’t get my footy contract/modelling contract/stardom on Home and Away, I’ll just go to uni and get a business degree.” is exactly the same as “If I don’t get my footy contract/modelling contract/stardom on Home and Away, I’ll just go become an apprentice.” Only difference is that one is more acceptable to the upper and middle classes than the other.

I think there is something wrong with students of all backgrounds who view either trades or university as their only option. I knew plenty of kids at uni who didn’t want to be there, were struggling to pass, but who when I asked them why they were there, said in surprise, “Well, you have to go to uni to get somewhere in life. What job am I going to get without a uni degree?” I think there is something terribly wrong with students who have that attitude and who make themselves miserable when they could be successful and happy had they explored other options.

Reg says:

03:31pm | 30/11/10

A satisfying career choice is one you love doing so much, that you’d do it for nothing restrained only by the practicality of doing so. Quite often having a family ensures you stay and enjoy your job because it is they who would suffer if you took off on a fairytale journey. Job satisfaction is the key no matter whether it’s a trade or a degree. There ARE some who really light my wick when they start sneering at the efforts of TAFE students. There was a woman teacher in Brisbane did this and I am proud to say I remained silent because the reaction would have be sooo un-Christian.  Moi?   There’s no need for anyone to be insulted.

Steph says:

08:26am | 01/12/10

If the original poster had said careers like “Nail technician” and “truck driver”, would you have the same issues? He’s using examples of careers that are easy to get and pay reasonably well and can be done without too much effort. Though building probably was a bad example, it still is relatively easy for a young, healthy man the get an apprenticeship for and it’s a job for life. So, if whatever they plan to do to become famous (start a band, become a model) goes awry, there’s a trade they can fall back on that requires minimal education standards and can support them.

He wasn’t ratting out said professions, he was ratting out the fact they were used as a backup plan rather than a career choice.

G says:

09:22am | 30/11/10

I think people totally misinterpreted this article, glad to see that you’ve tried to steer them back on track.

I guess the ones who have blown their head gaskets prematurely without reading the entire article simply justify the bogan culture which you describe!

I weep for hummanity when “Matty, Fatty and Robbo” become public role models.

jade says:

09:28am | 30/11/10

I find it just as wrong that many of the students I taught at schools in higher socio-economic areas had never considered careers outside the professions such as law, business, and the like which required a university degree. Particularly when those students were simply not cut out for academic life.

I think that we need to accept that some students are simply not going to succeed at university, and start encouraging all students to see all their options. Regardless of the value that some elitist elements of society place on the job or career.

Lazy Jesus says:

09:14am | 30/11/10

The systematic dumbing down of society is a the shame of the modern world.

grant says:

09:44am | 30/11/10

@ Lazy Jesus

The only thing lazy around here is your statement…  Don’t let factual information get in the way of broad sweeping statements.

Education participation rates for persons Aged 15-19 years in Australia from 1975 to 1997 went from 58% to 81% (higher now).

My mother dropped out of school at 13 and went to work to help support her family.  My oldest brother left high school at year 10 to work, and I have just started my post graduate course.  Personally, I can see the changes over a short period of time.

We are not dumbing down, we are getting smarter. 

Well, most of us are Lazy Jesus…

http://www.abs.gov.au/Ausstats/abs@.nsf/0/A75909A2108CECAACA2569DE002539FB?Open

Tator says:

12:55pm | 30/11/10

Grant,
I wouldn’t say that we are getting smarter, just that the only reason for those retention rates increasing is that the State governments lifted the school leaving age from 15 to 17 to help reduce youth unemployment (which reached up to 40% in the early 90’s) and you will find many older and more experienced teachers would say that the academic levels in year 12 have dropped as a result, devaluing the academic achievement involved in obtaining year 12 as prior to the changes , only those with the desire to go on to tertiary studies would attempt year 12 which was set up with mainly purely academic subjects in the physical sciences, geography, english, history of various eras and mathematics and only by passing those core “Matriculation” subjects would make you eligible for University entrance.  But then again, tertiary education was fully subsidised then and they had to use some methodology to reign in costs, and even then, they still had to implement HECS to help pay for it.
Now, as the difficulty has been diluted with the addition of numerous other subjects which are not as academically rigorous and yet still give those who study the academically easier subjects the same entry requirements as those who studies the “hard” sciences and humanities subjects.

stu says:

08:47pm | 30/11/10

hmm wonder why we are presented these shows relently every night almost .... they couldnt be trying to avert our eyes from the reality of the world and their plans of one world prison planet, all the while we watch dvd’s, do on line poker, play endless hours of computer games and facebook all night long, we are just having a great time in this technological world with all the bells and whistles and riches to be had and now we are watching shows with ordinary people in them just like us, and hand selected exteme remnants of human society and then basically making fun of them, of us.  Oh yes someone is having a bloody good laugh at us laughing at us and capitilising on it as well.  Inbetween telvision shows there are these grotesque slick gloss adverts for this and that loosley flashing sex and or greed blatantly in your face. Otherwise you pay foxtel for them present all these most entertaining televison shows.  So no i dont uy into this crap, it is a deviation from reality, they dont want to be in the real, virtual relaity has been sold to us as way better than reality.  Have a good think about why ‘they’ dont want us in the reality…...... serious…. and it is scary….....

Mike says:

06:19am | 01/12/10

Grant

Sadly I think Lazy Jesus has a point, while you are correct education particupation has increased, even the level of the HSC and similar tests have been “dumbed down”

When I did my HSC you could get a score of 15.01 and the average was around 50. The average today is nearer 75 so that “students do not have their emotional stability damaged”. School reports likewise are crafted in such a way as to tell parents nothing so that their children are not emotionally crippled.

A large retention rate is more an indication of the change in job availability, change in minimum age and changing requirements of entry into trades (once they required no High School, then in the 1990’s required School Certificate, now most are requiring HSC or entrance tests).

Don’t get me wrong is it good they are staying at school, but it largely has not increased how smart society is just how smart society thinks it is until it is presented with a problem that is not carefully crafted so that they can’t get the answer wrong.

aliquis says:

10:41am | 30/11/10

Hey Wayne, what exactly are your trying to say? Oh, you must be referring to my ability to interpret your point… then you are correct, I have NFI. Say something useful next time.

Reg says:

09:02pm | 30/11/10

Well they were before sport became the yardstick by which intelligence and ability was estimated. Some of the greatest noises ever to impinge upon the human brain came from the brightest people like Einstein and Darwin. Now that I think of it, the only time I recall hearing the word intelligent mentioned in sport, it was about a race-horse.

Gandalf says:

10:12am | 30/11/10

I’m sure even the most remote of our schools teaches you about spell check.. Our schools should be raising the bar on education and stop focusing on political correctness and mass compliance.

aliquis says:

10:44am | 30/11/10

Haha, I never actually thought of it like that! I’ll remember this analogy next time someone asks why Kim Kardashian is ‘famous’.

Kel says:

11:47am | 30/11/10

Great comparison, Markus!

Miles says:

03:22pm | 30/11/10

I guess the difference these days is that the commoners live longer and actually have money - which is what influences everything else.  But a good comparison nonetheless!!

Reg says:

10:07am | 01/12/10

Actually the pursuit of excellence was begun when it was though worthwhile teaching children to read and write. This too was resisted for its potential to provide the means by which the poor could rise to overcome their masters. Keeping them ignorant was regarded as the best form of defense. It is interesting that stocks and peasantry is at the surface of you consciousness as you address this problem Marcus.

James1 says:

10:13am | 30/11/10

Money does not equal satisfaction.  If you are satisfied by the mere fact that you earn a lot of money, you have a sad life my friend.  You remind me of my lawyer friends.

Elphaba says:

10:23am | 30/11/10

James1 - agree.  People who measure their self by how much money they make are very often devoid of personality.

Grumpy says:

10:52am | 30/11/10

James & Elphaba…Give me a break..There is no such thing as job satisfaction, if you believe there is you’re kidding yourselves.  Everything gets dull in time. Its always about money…you wouldn’t get out of bed for that “satisfying job” if you didn’t have to make money… people who start out noble and study for 4 years to get a degree for a job that pays $60k a year, i think most of us would agree, that money is important. I cant believe you even mentioned personality.

Nothing will afford you more quality in this life than being able to work the shortest possible hours a week for as much money as possible, nothing. Money is not everything, its not love or health, but it will sure help you maintain those things.

James1 says:

11:14am | 30/11/10

So you agree Grumpy, when I say that if a person measures their satisfaction with life according to how much money they earn, they live a sad life.  Money is, after all, just money, and if you can go home both better off and satisfied and happy, your life is far better than if you go home better off and miserable, which it sounds a lot like you have to do.  Keep in mind, if you have skills and are unhappy with what you do, you can always do something that makes you happy…  For those of us with university educations, there are many options out there.

Elphaba says:

11:37am | 30/11/10

Grumpy - well, I can see why you earned your name.  I feel sorry for you.  You’re wrong.  Have a grumpy life.

Country Realist says:

12:11pm | 30/11/10

Well done Steven!  It’s funny with the elitest type, that as soon as someone earns more than them with a “lesser” qualification, they say it’s not about the money??  Im confused. By their values, the people who volunteer their time for nothing, helping the homeless etc, with huge satisfaction are the most successful people in the world!  Yet there is a shortage of volunteers?  Is there a university degree for this line of work?  Trade, profession or charity, life is what you make of it. Everyone has options.

Roscoe P Coltrane says:

12:29pm | 30/11/10

Steven

Do you collect $200 everytime you drive past your 30 block of units, you are builing in neverland?

James1 says:

02:56pm | 30/11/10

I have always maintained I would rather go home to my family happy, poor and at 5pm, than unhappy and rich at 8pm, Country realist.  Luckily for me, my job both pays well and is very satisfying and enjoyable.  Thanks for recognising my elite status though - much appreciated.

GingerKitty says:

03:48pm | 30/11/10

Good work Steven!

I hate being an accountant :(
Even after graduating with a double degree, I’m still studying (postgrad accounting) because my salary will always stay around the 60-70k mark!

Erin says:

10:32am | 01/12/10

Steven - Good for you.  Obviously you chose your trade because you had a passion for it.  My husband is a sparky and he loves his job.  He didn’t finish school but he really enjoys the technical nature of his job.

But doesn’t it annoy you that teenagers see your profession as a back up plan?  That they dont have any concept of the years of tafe, the exams, the constant building code updates, all the crap with fair trading, the contracts, the clients that wont pay, and all the other challenges that come with it?  Your job is hard.  To be good at it requires real brains and skill - not just an unrealised dream of being famous.  Most succesful builders are really sucessful businessmen as well as tradesmen - Doesn’t it annoy you that these kids see your profession as an easy option, rather than a passion?

Perhaps keep this in mind when you hire your apprentices.  If carpentry isn’t their first choice, then they should not be yours!

St. Michael says:

11:32am | 30/11/10

Almost by definition, geniuses are rare.  Tryhards who want to be one with none of the persistence, hard work, or thought are not.  Which is the point of the article.

Horayfordownies says:

12:30pm | 30/11/10

The ‘stupid’ generation?
  You’d label an entire generation of people based on one idiot?
So if I were to follow your terrible logic…
... Your generation taught us everything we know. We went to schools with teachers from your generation, we listened to people from your generation on the news, people from YOUR generation are leading our country - does that imply all older people are ‘stupid’ aswell?

I sincerly hope you, Vernozz, won’t get a chance to breed. We could do without your defective reasoning and genes.

Mark says:

10:18am | 01/12/10

I come from the Uk and don’t recall it having a class system any more, maybe a hundred years ago yes. You need to get your facts right. I’ve met more snobs in Australia than in the UK, more people here go to private schools than in the UK, have private medical insurance, boats, second homes, 4x4s. Ok some people might speak with a plummy voice (or at least speak English properly) but that doesn’t make them superior in any way. The only aristo I ever met was one who came from New Zealand and revelled in being called “Lady….”

Erin says:

10:52am | 01/12/10

Perhaps the hair-do is the result of a hairdresser who was only doing it as a back-up plan?

Reg says:

09:16pm | 30/11/10

Jeanne, with great respect, you do realise what you’ve written is dismissive, saying that no-one should be bothered?

This unfortunately, represents the whole problem in Australia of it being just too hard or too inconvenient and uncomfortable to waste time with. If “Lighten up Folks” is the sum of the Australian approach then there is no use anyone complaining about the ineptitude of our politicians, they are only reflecting the broadly “bogan”’ attitude that is so widely accepted.  Sorry I didn’t really mean to suggest you had bogan tendencies, it was an accident.

hellonathan says:

07:48am | 01/12/10

Jane Wallace, we should meet up. I’m pretty sure I could easily trick you into giving me a blow job. Labor rules, yeah?

Politics has nothing to do with the erosion of the desire to do and become better, or does it? (think the Kevin ‘07 campaign and the celebrity filled 2010 summit held shortly afterward)

Kika says:

01:46pm | 30/11/10

No, you’re wrong. The smart Aussies leave our shores and work O/S! We have a huge brain drain. Not as bad as NZ, but it’s pretty depressing.

GingerKitty says:

04:00pm | 30/11/10

Your comment reminds me of something which I heard Jim Goodnight (CEO of SAS Institute) speak about at a conference I went to a few months ago.
He said the reason why Asians (Chinese, Indians etc) will dominate the executive positions in the future is because our kids these days (of western descent) seem to want to study things like arts, history, society and culture, etc, instead things which will put them ahead in life, e.g. maths and science…

Kimp says:

08:27am | 01/12/10

Isn’t his point that these kids aren’t actually thinking through their career option?  rather they just all say the same thing.  he wasn’t criticising the back up career choice, just the lack of thought that went into it.

It surprises me that of all the points made in the article the one that everyone has jumped on is that the author is somehow denigrating the trades.

Rather than being inspired by real role models in society, they are looking at people who have no talent and who don’t contribute anything of real value and are hoping to emulate that sort of life.  Imagine if everyone in society ended up doing that??

isn’t that the real point of the article??

hellonathan says:

06:42pm | 01/12/10

Kimp - it’s LPS (Low Poppy Syndrome) formerly known as ABD (Aussie Battler Disorder) characterised by always missing the point and (unduly) feeling under threat by all their (perceived) oppressors. They talk shit because they sit there eating it and smelling it all day due to their lowness to the dirt. When they take a drink it is from the poo fountain. There is nothing else in their world but shit (largely of their own creation, so it’s basically recycled shit which is why you hear the same from them again and again) and my, how they love it.

Jade says:

01:43pm | 30/11/10

God, I’m 27 and I remember pretty much everyone in my primary school wanted to be a famous movie star. Or a model. Or a singer. Or a Mutant Ninja Turtle. Why on earth should a 10 year old have realistic expectations in life. They’re children for goodness’ sake.

That’s one of the points I think a lot of people are missing here.

Erin says:

10:58am | 01/12/10

I was going to be Michelangelo. I like orange.

elysse says:

04:34pm | 01/12/10

I wanted to be a power ranger - they were way cooler than the tmnt

John Smythe says:

02:14pm | 30/11/10

/cheer!

Alex says:

12:31pm | 01/12/10

Congrats for cutting through the bullshit, sir.

James1 says:

03:34pm | 30/11/10

If your aim is to work enough to afford both the money and time to travel and have a family, I would say you are already aiming high.

Erin says:

10:51am | 01/12/10

I disagree with you James1, she didnt say she wanted to do both at the same time.  She is recognising that the simple things in life - family and experiences (over goods) are what makes happiness - not a high flying career in a firm that thinks you are a shirker if you leave before 7pm.

Good for you Kika.  When you are old and grey your family and memories will bring a smile to your face while the rest of the wage slaves wonder where it all went so wrong.

James1 says:

01:43pm | 01/12/10

Actually Erin, we are in agreement.  What you wrote is what I meant to say.

martin says:

02:46pm | 30/11/10

Or creating property ponzi schemes, selling out the workers, forcing them into apartments, charging them just as much for a house. Yeah, real honourable elder generation. Not.

Kika says:

03:45pm | 30/11/10

What school do I subscribe to? Your Mama’s school.

All artists are knocked while they are still alive… That’s obvious.
But I used that reference as an example for his own life. He was at university at the direction of his mother (an academic) Became jaded. Dropped out. Started doing what he loved - producing tracks much to the dismay of his mother. Got noticed and then got a job at Def Jam working on Jay Z and other’s songs. Wanted to start his own recording career. Was knocked and was discouraged from pursuing his dreams. He did it anyway, and look where he is now!

Wow, you have degrees! They must keep you warm at night. So what. Good for you. But why should everyone go to university? Why is it expected that we should all go there, get our little piece of paper and our lives will be complete? Guess what. I have one too. BJus (Justice Policy). Whoopee!! My life was so completed knowing I had a piece of paper to say I was smart. I am so smart. I am so smart S M R T!

Whatever. Education is good. But we all have to have dreams. If you aren’t cut out for studying, pursue what makes you happy and fulfilled. If that’s cutting hair, great!

And as the great Missy Elliott says “Ain’t no shame ladies, do your thang
Just make sure you ahead of the game!”

And doesn’t that apply to us all? Whatever you do, do it well.

Doug says:

10:29pm | 30/11/10

Why Shay Carl? out of all the talentless cretins with youtube accounts, why do you attack one of the few that are actually interesting? Sure his show doesn’t really require to much talent to produce but he is an entertaining personality leading an interesting life, much better than shows like “the Kardashians” and so on.

Paul says:

07:12pm | 30/11/10

Hi Toby!

Great article Steve! I wish I had your obvious gift for the written word. Sadly, most of my writing consists of syrupy, sentimental drivel.

Anyway, here is my response to your article http://imgoingtowriteaboutthatonmyblog.wordpress.com/2010/11/30/generation-fame-when-a-real-job-just-isn’t-enough/. Maybe you could give me some tips?

Thanks

Paul from Beauty and the Geek Season 1 says:

11:37pm | 01/12/10

I am desperate for attention.

Steve Wilkinson says:

07:59am | 01/12/10

Sorry, I’ve no excuse to offer. I’ve joined the ranks of the dumb-arses. In hindsight, an extremely poor choice of subject - I wasn’t aware of the disability (Maroteaux-Lamy Syndrome, apparently), so should have conducted a bit more research. Which raises other interesting questions: Is it appropriate for millions to watch Keenan on YouTube and snigger? Or is it his ‘mojo’ as you describe. And is it ok for 50 Cent to exploit a disabled teen to boost his own profile under the guise of supporting Keenan? But these questions aside, I stuffed up and should have picked one of the able-bodied fools who masquerade as superstars to illustrate my point. God knows, there are millions to pick from…

Kika says:

12:32pm | 01/12/10

Absolutely true! No way I’d ever want to be my parents. In fact I’ve tried my hardest to turn out exactly opposite to them. It’s always easy to bash out on Gen Y when it’s the Baby Boomers who created and brought us all into being.

chris says:

06:52am | 01/12/10

whos the dude going snorkling

John Smythe says:

09:53am | 01/12/10

I LOL’d at your comment.

George says:

11:06am | 01/12/10

I too laughed out loud, literally, at your comment.  Not sure if its the irony, how your comments personify the article or knowing that one day you’re going to have to grow up and realise that you too are an ‘egghead’.

David Jones says:

11:55am | 01/12/10

Your an angry young man/woman/person, aren’t you. However, temper tantrums (brought about by poor parenting skills) in the guise of precise social comment (devoid of wordy abuse and cliches) don’t further social attitudes of some to Gen Y (it’s a sociological term, you know). Just stick the bogan ideals of fame, fashion and patio parties and leave social commentary to the better educated.

Reg says:

02:06pm | 01/12/10

I laughed because if the gentleman’s outrage is at all justified, then he has read and understood all that has been written. Shouldn’t he be working?  If he hasn’t read it all, then he can FO.because he doesn’t know what he’s talking about.

The use of the word back after the word regress, also suggests you were not paying attention in English class either. Oh Joe…Joe….

John Smythe says:

04:09pm | 01/12/10

It’s the ebilness that is the innerwebs Steve.

The game is not to take the message in what someone says, that would be too easy. The true mastery in the game is to pick and scratch at the message until you can find something to twist and turn into your own personal agenda.

There are still some good discussions as part of the article though.

Grats! This should be post #200!