Friday Fight Club Finale: This is going to penalties

mervyn ford says:

08:21pm | 20/08/10

maybe this is why gillard is looking more like pinnoccio every day

Macca says:

01:11pm | 20/08/10

@Daniel, inquiries into the BER have showed that parts of the spending were excessive and wasteful. The large amount spent on “Management fees” and the extra cost per square metre in NSW compared to other states is a perfect example of this.

You can’t accuse the Coalition of appealing to Xenophobia when the ALP adopts a very similar policy after removing Rudd

As for delays on costings, many of the ALPs election promises were costed by Treasury after the Election, not before it.

I could go on, but It’d be like speaking to a brick wall. Well, a brick wall that regurgitates ALP rubbish

Bobster says:

01:31pm | 20/08/10

@ Macca,

I’ve read Brad Orgill’s report and, in fact, it says the exact opposite of what you have just asserted.

Interestingly, it also said the direct opposite of what The Australian (and indeed most News Ltd papers) reported at it’s release.

Orgill said it achieved the aims of the stimulus - to build fast. For that we attracted a 12% increase in cost, which is similar to what you’d get in the private sector if you wanted to convince a tradie to drop everything to work on your place.

The most interesting part of the post-match analysis will be what gets said about the media.

Labor’s played a shocker in this campaign, but the newspapers have really showed why they are up against it.

Daniel says:

01:32pm | 20/08/10

Of course parts of it were excessive and wasteful. No one in their right mind would have expected it to run perfectly when you’re trying to inject money into the economy as quickly as possible to avoid a comlete breakdown. How about the jobs that were saved? The welfare that doesn’t need to paid to the tens of thousands of extra unemployed? The businesses still open? Or are you going to pretend none of the spending helped as per the Liberal party line?

The Labor Party isn’t the one that has “Stop the Boats” as part of its Action Plan. Sorry, but when you place that much emphasis on it (in comparison to Plane people), you’re appealing to the xenophobes and racists. The boat-phone? Pathetic.

I could go on but….

Paul says:

01:40pm | 20/08/10

Daniel, agree, blatant lies are not good…. but didn’t Gillard state at the last forum “NO CARBON TAX”? Must be awfully delayed broadband to Darwin, because today, the Labor member there states that his party will be the only one to introduce a Carbon Tax…. Nobody else! And you mention costings of promises…. what about the 35 that the Labor Party has yet to put in for costing? Wasn’t it Mr Swann who called the Libs scandalous for not lodging theirs before last Wednesday?
Agree - Labor are a complete disgrace and embarassment… can we add desperate to that as well?

Stewart Henstock says:

02:06pm | 20/08/10

I’m not saying the Coalition is a viable option just that Labor is the worst option.
As for the stimulus.The coalition voted for the 1st stimulus and were opposed to the amount being spent in regards to the second stimulus.
The 1st stimulus didn’t create jobs but may have maintained existing jobs.Most of the stimulus money went into the pockets of business owners like Harvey Norman who lost a packet when stocks crashed…no job creation.
The second stimulus packet created jobs…200,000…not likely.A lot of the money was wasted which could of been used to create real jobs.
I agree there’s a reason for spending.It’s because of decades of waste and mismanagement by Labor Partys’ which have left Australia short of infrastructure.How is the Coalition supose to spend on infrastructure when they’re constantly paying off Labors debt.

Adam Diver says:

02:19pm | 20/08/10

Daniel please don’t stop there, tell us how you really feel.

Lies:
Grocerywatch
Petrolwatch
Mining tax changes only going to cost 1.5 billion
Julias launch speech is off the cuff
No Carbon Tax
We won’t go right on assylum seekers
We will update at the beginning of each year the progress of the indiginous
A laptop for every child
Full hospital takeover
ETS
“Kevin Rudd will be PM for the next election”
250 GP superclinics
Single drop off childcare centres
Fiscally responsible

And thats just off the top of my head. The liberal party supported a stimulus package, the initial $900 handout. They did not support the subsequent and wasteful stimulus measures particulary the insulation debacle and the BER which 60% has been spent after the GFC. But your right thats not wasteful at all. Its only our money why not after failing to install 16 billion in schools, we try to build our own uncompetitive broadband network for around $43 billion.

Bobster says:

03:00pm | 20/08/10

@ Adam Diver

Because the GFC was only an eight week hiccup, right? If your lot had their way then hundreds of thousands of Australians would be out of work and you’d be demanding we cut off their unemployment to pay for the deficit you incurred anyway.

I suppose the enormous drops in tax and trade revenue had nothing to do with the deficit did they?

And insulation had nothing to do with unscrupulous shonks out to make a quick buck - several of whom - tragically - killed themselves in the process.

BER - this has been covered, there was no waste but don’t let the truth get in your way.

The Government never rushed to bail-out 300 ABC Childcare centres when the free market ideology went arse up there.

We forget of course that the minerals of which Australia is composed do not belong to Australia but to Twiggy Forrest so obviously the mining tax was just unjustifiable.

Petrol prices are significantly lower now than in 2007.

And I suppose for a fundie capitalist like yourself you’d just love to see something done about the Coles-Woolworths oligopoly wouldn’t you?

But I suppose all of this makes sense if you live in a world where the GFC never happened.

Allan says:

03:05pm | 20/08/10

Daniel, pour some petrol on your self and light up to see if anyone pisses on you.

Angry God says:

07:07pm | 20/08/10

@Bobster, The BER has had tremendous waste, Orgill is a Labor insider and you know it. $625,000 of taxpayer funds for a caanteen that cannot fit a pie warmer shows that you are a lying ALP cheerleader and given the depths plumbed by this desperate lot you have nothing to loose by the continuation of the slanders and lies that you have spewed forth in the last 4 weeks. 

Julia said that “Every Boat was a policy failure” did this only apply when in opposition. Otherwise she has had over 100 failures this year.

The aims of a stimulus should have been to create sustainable infrastructure to make Australia competitive on the resumption of global growth. Better rail, better ports, improved facilities for businesses to grow. The School hall program was required to give the ALP something to show every voter what they had done when they went to vote, it made some labor mates rich with managemen fees but as an infrastructure investment it will give no real long term advantage to Australia in terms of trade or productivity. You know this but you still peddle your misrepresentation of a report designed to achieve the result the government desired.

You get enourmous drops in revenue when you build for the government because materials are GST free. You get enourmous drops in revenue when you start paying $100, 000, 000 in interest each week.

And this government has not done a thing to impact on petrol prices so you expose your stupity in one fel swoop.

Labor has lied about the “grocery tax” they know that the business tax cut is neutralised for bigger businesses by the introduction of the levy,. So no tax increase to impact on the prices, infact, many of the llarger companies already fund this and so they no longer have to remove this from their income. The ETS on the other hand will drive up prices on every product and have a multiplying effect as every stage of the production process will be hit with increased costs as well as increased taxes in the form of the ETS.

Labor are such a danger to Australia that no sane person could consider voting for them. Obviously though you will.

mervyn ford says:

08:24pm | 20/08/10

@Daniel…or is that denial. If I remember correctly, Rudd said in his election speech that he would turn back the boats.

Bobster says:

11:57am | 21/08/10

@ Angry God

And your own exhaustive investigations have revealed the opposite of Orgill?

Well, at least if Tony Abbott wins today Australia will soon have a big pile of money to look at while the schools crumble. One has to love a party with a name like Liberal that seems to like to neglect things.

Daniel says:

01:44pm | 20/08/10

Fingers in ears, humming, pretending the GFC didn’t happen?

The pink batt policy didn’t result in deaths, opportunistic installers resulted in deaths. There are safety standards for a reason.

Blaming Labor for the ETS not getting through Senate?

It’s easy to pretend all the spending was for nothing, when you don’t believe in the fundamental reason for that spending in the first place. That’s the biggest joke of this election, and we deserve to be ridiculed (and we will be) if Abbott gets in as a result.

CK says:

03:21pm | 20/08/10

Of course the GFC did happen Daniel, however because we were in a very strong financial position when it hit, we had the cash reserves to bail us out of trouble. We were also able to lower interest rates to keep the economy moving forward. Australia also has a strong legislative structure here in relation to reducing the impact of poor lending practices and over zealous greedy financial institutions such as what happened in the US and Europe.
Australia has also been able to establish strong economic relations with Asia, which is still strong courtesy of huge amounts of cash reserves.

Labor will always be claiming they saved Australia from the GFC, but the only reasons why were set up by previous governments.

Reader says:

03:22pm | 20/08/10

@ Stewart Henstock
Where are you standing for election?  ...or are you studying your junk mail to get better political education?
Your words like they never, always, nothing just prove you political blindness and confined judgement.

hot tub political machine says:

01:27pm | 20/08/10

A vote for Greens is a vote for the Greens. There is such a thing as allocating preferances contrary to the how to vote card

Seriously says:

04:16pm | 20/08/10

Speaking of damages, where are they hiding the other ex poster boy Peter Garrett??

Adam Diver says:

02:23pm | 20/08/10

How can we invest in infrastructure like the amounts the left alwasy want without raising taxes or going into debt, whilst simultaneously increasing the size and the scope of a government.

Let me know

Helen says:

02:44pm | 20/08/10

<Labor’s economic record is outstanding>
You HAVE to be joking, or a paid ALP staffer, LOL

Bobster says:

02:44pm | 20/08/10

You do realise the entire private sector is built on debt and finance don’t you?

If your mentality existed a hundred years ago we wouldn’t have a nationwide road or rail network, there’d be no telephones and you’d have to drive around Sydney harbour.

You couldn’t build a school or hospital. There’d be no police stations and the RAAF would fly in second hand Spitfires and only those who could afford their own geosynchonous satelites would have internet access.

You make a valid point though. I’ve changed my mind now.

Screw the poor and disadvantaged. It’s every man for himself in Australia now.

I didn’t know the Tea Party movement had made it to Australia.

The Badger says:

03:50pm | 20/08/10

Take the miners nuff

Bobster says:

05:06pm | 20/08/10

No Helen,

I just read widely and come to my own conclusions. Given that just about every economist in the country and just about every visiting economist has come to that conclusion, on top of my own reading of the various reports into this area, that’s the opinion I’ve been forced to come to.

As for small business owning mercantilists’ opinions on the national economy, well, if you listen to them you’re bound to wind up with a half-arsed view of things. Which is probably why the Liberal Party’s intention to treat running Australia’s economy like running a fish and chip shop hasn’t exactly seen an outpouring of support from anyone other than lower middle class bogans with delusions of grandeur, Young Liberals and those born sucking on the silver spoon.

Pudel says:

01:42pm | 20/08/10

Not enough zeros, it is 43,000,000,000, reasons.  From my understanding the NBN was not in the budget, and is not considered an election promise, so is not costed anywhere.

Go to a real live GP says:

01:53pm | 20/08/10

So if it cost $5000 per houshold that is only for towns bigger than 1500 residents ... see Tasmania for example, then they cant say how much to connect it to your equipment, add a cmaera to have access to online medical diagnoses, add a better computer, graphics card, memory to have crystal clear images to send to the remote doctor so he can see things close up etc etc etc.  I think I would earather not have it and go to the REAL local GP

TheRealDave says:

01:54pm | 20/08/10

What the?!?

Umm, I’d just like to point out that the new $43 billion dollar NBN infrastructure building would be owned by the NBN Co and not Telstra.

Its the Liberal scheme thats going to give Telstra $6 billion of our money to improve their backhaul which Telstra will own and continue to extort us and deliver 3rd world broadband and still maintain their unfair monopoly.

At least get something right.

Just like today’s piece over at the Australian screaming that if Labor get sin and the NBN rolls out we will all have to pay $600-$1200 to re-wire our homes.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/homes-to-pay-heavy-price-for-internet-from-nbn/story-fn59niix-1225907517167

Blatant shrill Liberal lies. Disgusting.

TheRealDave says:

02:15pm | 20/08/10

@Gotoreallivegp

Web Camera from Logitech or MS $50 - $100 if you really want to spend that much, my $40 Dick Smith special I got in 2001 still puts out an awesome image better than my new $150 Logitech. Funnily enough, a lot of us have already been using them to video chat with people all over the world for at least a decade now.

Cost to connect to NBN: the same as what it would cost you to connect to ANY Australian ISP right now i.e. setup fee based on length of contract plus maybe the cost of a new modem (lets say $50 - $200 depending on what features you want, and yes I am talking average residential and not Cisco gear or other business grade products the average house holder would never use).

New PC?? Why?? The average PC built in the last 2-3 years has a dual core processor, 2-4 gig of RAM and several hundred gigs of HD space. Given that my daughters old single core AMD running WinXP on 1gb of RAM and onboard video can use a webcam perfectly fine to chat to relatives interstate and overseas you’re talking crap there as well.

The amount of shrill lies being spouted about the NBN is ludicrous. I’ve never seen so much uninformed tripe being spouted about the place.

Adam Diver says:

02:26pm | 20/08/10

@ therealdave, well you dug yourself a grave there. If we already have the technology

“Funnily enough, a lot of us have already been using them to video chat with people all over the world for at least a decade now”

What exactly is the 43 billion for, faster porn? And no I am not tech illiterate, it just happens that I am no economic illiterate either

r3830 says:

02:42pm | 20/08/10

Ronny Eaton,  Telstra still remains 50.1% Australian owned. It also has an abundance of technical knowhow - and infrastructure both in and above the ground. Perhaps this may provide a small boost to the Australians who hold Telstra shares, which would mean that a lot of the profits would remain here. Is that truly sooooo bad?

And TheRealDave Do you have a problem with the charging rates of licenced cablers? $2000 to $4000 should be about right for most cat5 instals. Where you come up with the blatant lies…. I don’t know. Perhaps…. just a tiny tad of research may assist you. Oh - and who said that the cost will be limited to $43Bn? It’s a long walk from Perth to Derby you know…. How about we conservatively DOUBLE the estimate?

iansand says:

03:25pm | 20/08/10

I dunno if the NBN will have any effect, but I regularly send and receive quite large documents to and from China and the US.  It sometimes takes ages, and I can see the CBD if I walk out the door.  I suspect that I couldn’t do what I do if I was not in the big smoke.

My feeling is that anyone who doesn’t get the need for an NBN wouldn’t have the imagination to benefit from it.  Whether we will get bang for buck is something I am not qualified to judge.

mervyn ford says:

08:46pm | 20/08/10

@the real dave.
there are satellites being launched now that will enable the same speed as the NBN but will be wireless. This is happening now so why do we need the govt to waste 43 BILLION of our money, esp as they have botched everything to date.
Most people want to be mobile, not stuck at home. Just look at what is happening with phones, the traditional home phone is in decline with many people just have a mobile.

Go to a Real Live GP says:

09:42pm | 20/08/10

@TheRealDave says ... We are talking about cameras that would be neded for medical diagnosis not puny webcams unless you want to use a webcam to show the online doctor your ailment.  Fibre is not to the door, you will still have to have a cable run to your home, thats a fibre cable not a telstra phone cable that runs your ADSL connection.  NEW modem as there probaly isnt a connection to fibre on your modem.  RE NBN, the three local board members of the TAS NBN have left and been replaced by a former Telstra Executive probaly getting it ready to be taken over .  NBN is also fastest at its slowest link.  Getting stuff from overseas on a standard ISP connection will only give you current speeds

Allan says:

03:24pm | 20/08/10

I read Reader carefully for one sentence and was expecting him/her to highlight Gillard’s ridiculous accent that comes from nowhere i’ve ever been and I don’t think I’ll be able to stand it for 3 years if she wins.
Now if you want to look at something that looks like a duck and something that sounds like a duck and something with an arse that looks like it’s about to lay watermelon look no further than Jools.

libertarian vegetarian says:

03:46pm | 20/08/10

So you think a woman with an accent straight out of Kath and Kim would be more appropriate to represent Oz-trail-ya??

Reader says:

04:52pm | 20/08/10

@ libertarian vegetarian
I guess you’re not from South Australia, are you?. By the way, did you hear what people in other parts of the world say about Australian accent?
I must say I’m not really bothered how people speak but rather what thay say.

Baz says:

02:16pm | 20/08/10

@ David,

Don’t forget the naval helicopters that couldn’t fly over water - that was another sterling example of Liberal austerity.

Barbara says:

02:34pm | 20/08/10

And pray tell David, where is Labor’s business plan for the NBN - there is none.  There is a big difference between a $550 Million mistake and a $ 43 Billion mistake.  Besides which, military spending isn’t about boosting the economy.  Very poor example, but then again you are scraping the bottom of the barrel.

Ryan says:

02:45pm | 20/08/10

@David : <in an annoying droning voice> mooooove forward </in an annoying droning voice>

Dee says:

03:02pm | 20/08/10

David, I’d be far more interested to see the business plan behind the NBN. I still haven’t seen it, have you?  Anybody…........? We can’t do anything about ‘useless second hand military tanks’ but we sure as hell can do something about the $43 billion NBN if and when we are allowed to sight the business plan.

Kye says:

03:03pm | 20/08/10

When you create such a surplus as John and the liberals did you probably deserve the right to make a blnder here or there.

I would much rather blunders from a government that is making money than one that is losing money.

43 Billion for faster net speeds, truthfully, I dont know anyone that says there business will operate with enough increased profitablility to justfy $5000 a person!!!  What a waste our money.

I can only hope for my shareportfolio that the llibs win.

If Australia relied on proof of fiscal management to elect a party then there would not be an election - the libs would be catapaulted in.

Sally says:

04:57pm | 20/08/10

Abbott says he’s goign to stop the boats, I’m sorry Tony but three is going to be too many. You can’t have it both ways

Angry God says:

07:13pm | 20/08/10

Radio Australia is in the ABC’s budget, they chose how they would spend their money, not Howard.

Skinny says:

05:29pm | 20/08/10

I reckon. Just saw one of the evening news slots. They gave each leader 1 minute to convince Queenslanders why they should vote for them/their party. Tony was, admittedly, scripted, but tight, and the anchor guy got another question in. Jooolyaaa droned on with arms flailing like a mixmaster, and literally had to be shut up by the female newsreader.  It was embarrassing.

Reader says:

04:37pm | 20/08/10

@ John
Are you talking about Japan and Korea or China and India? If you think Japan and Korea have not been hurt by GFC, you better check your facts again. If you discuss China and India they are emerging economies with huge capacities which you can’t really compare with Australia’s 22 million population and 1.3 bn economy. So next time you listen to the radio, make sure that people expressing their opinions know the issue and are not politically biased.

Mark Casson says:

04:48pm | 20/08/10

Would you let a major mining company exectutive manage your small business?

If you did you would go broke.

If you want to see waste on a massive scale go to work for some of our big miners.

BHP HBI Plant Port Headlead Budget $ 1Billion End Cost $2.6 Billion
Status closed after Fatal accident 2004

BHP Ravensthorpe Nickel: Budget $1 Billion End Cost $2.1 Billion
Status closed 2009 sold 2010

These guys can’t do anything on time and on cost despite having massive budgets.

They just happen to own our most profitable resources in coal and Iron ore that are easy to extract and are much sought after.

By the way who do you think pays for their failures , thats right the tax payer.

Reader says:

06:22pm | 20/08/10

Tony Abbott said: “Work Choices is dead, buried and cremated” and we all have seen him signing some piece of paper. But when you think about it; if something is buried it cannot be then cremated unless you dig it up from a grave. It smells that something is not in the right order. Following that thought that may me more thing out of order in his statement. Let’s say he has cremated it and then buried. But why? Usually people put the urn in a columbarium, may keep it at home or spread the ashes over their property they lived at. So what happened to the ashes? Has anybody seen anything in TV? It must have been a big event. Obviously not.
But don’t worry, Tony will not resurrect Work Choices because of his religious convictions and his promise to the nation. He will reincarnate them as Workers’ Choices, giving you a chance to chose between having or not having a job.
Good luck Australia. Think “Tony”, Vote “noTony”.