Friday dilemma: Is it ever OK to have an affair?

acotrel says:

04:30pm | 21/10/11

If you are with the right person, and committed, you won’t even notice the physical attributes or mental attractiveness of others.  If you are in a relationship where you are significantly isolated and no issue is ever resolved, other people can look pretty good.  If you have children you cannot just walk away, and start again.  You cannot build happiness on the misery of others.  It then depends on the nature of the affair.  If you start having sex, that is an irreversible step, which if handled badly can destroy you.  If it happens, it is time to become honest and change away from your spouse, before everyone suffers from your duplicity. The fact is that, it is worth the effort to find the right person right at the beginning of your adult life.  Never settle for second best, however promising it might appear to be. Once you have kids, you are effectively committed until they are adults, and you could end up with only them to show for your best years, while your quality of life has been crap, and destructive to your health.
We could do worse things than to train kids to develop formal social skills, such as how to approach someone and ask them for a dance at a ball.  How to conduct a rational argument with clear thinking.  How to prepare a meal, and conduct yourself at a dinner for two. How to drink alcohol sensibly without becoming addicted. How to play cards, scrabble and chess.

Markus says:

01:17pm | 21/10/11

Is it still considered an affair if it has been discussed and okay’d by all parties involved/affected? Isn’t that just swinging?

Erick says:

01:30pm | 21/10/11

@Markus - You are correct.

But I must confess that mine were affairs, not discussed and okayed by the woman’s partner. They were fun for a short time, but the guilt has remained with me ever since. I did the wrong thing and people were hurt, including myself as well.

My advice: Swinging can be fine. Don’t do affairs without the happy approval of everyone involved.

Dan says:

01:44pm | 21/10/11

@ Erick - so you think it was your responsibility to get permission from her partner to play around? Let yourself off that hook Erick. She would have dumped you in a heartbeat if you asked.

You didn’t commit to her partner, she did. You didn’t owe her partner anything. I’m not saying you go around looking to break up a relationship but when someone is looking to cheat then that is their betrayal, the person they choose to cheat with is not guilty at all. We can’t help who we feel attracted to. We can and should take no for an answer. But if that answer is yes, then it is not your fault for asking.

Trust me, I’ve been there with an evil cold manipulative horror and she tried to blame it all on me. After telling me she wasn’t happy for six months and crying on my shoulder she started flirting heavily. I was besotted with her and I fell for her completely. I now know that her boyfriend was having an affair at the same time and I was just being used to make her feel sexy or loved or whatever. But for about 6 months afterwards I hated myself, now I just hate her (not all women Erick, just her).

Having an affair is only morally wrong if you are in a partnership. It is just plain stupid if you are not, but you never made a commitment to the other person and it is just too easy to blame the stranger in the equation, regardless of the fact that they never made any commitment to the relationship in question.

fairsfair says:

01:55pm | 21/10/11

Isn’t swinging typically a “group” thing though? Like both parties are aware of who their partner is with?

I think there is also another side of it. I know some women who are happy to let it happen, as long as its not thrust in their face.

I used to work for a company where the GM was having a decades long affair with the marketing manager. His wife was all too well aware of it but she was of the opinion that as long as she had her house, car and her kids, she didn’t care.

I could never get my head around the marketing bird’s logic though. She was his second in everything and was in her forties, lived alone with her dog. Clearly she was happy with the situation though.

Shoe on the other foot, I am sure there are some men out there who would take something away from that sort of situation.

LauraBoBaura says:

02:16pm | 21/10/11

I’ll second this Erick.

I had an affair, (it was only one time.. is that still an ‘affair’ or is it chearting, anybody?) & I am still in a relationship with my partner…

The pain & guilt is still pretty fresh & I don’t think it’s going to go away any time soon, if ever.  It is by far my biggest regret/shame.

If there has been any positive come out of it though, it would be that I have learnt a lot about myself & my partner, and we are actually communicating much better since it happened & we don’t take each other for granted…

Definitely not a recommended route to improve relationships though. It is a bell that can’t be unrung.

Kika says:

03:17pm | 21/10/11

Laura - my Dad cheated on my Mum when I was very young. They stayed together but their relationship was never the same again. Mum hasn’t forgiven or forgotten and sometimes it’s like the elephant in the room to a lot of their issues and arguments. Mum admits that post affair she finds it hard to feel the same way to him and doesn’t love him the way she used to. She stayed with him for the kids, but not herself which I think is really bad because she sold herself and her own happiness in order to try to keep a family together.

I have been cheated on, because like most stupid girls I tended to flock to the boys like my father - party animals who drink too much but all the girls love. And like my mother, who I never learned from how to stand up for myself, stayed for too long getting trampled all over forgiving and forgiving. Then I grow up, get myself a full time job (after uni) learn who I am and start flying the nest. By this stage we were hardly seeing each other. I form a friendship with this guy and we tells me his feelings for me and I reciprocate. We kiss. And I realise that my relationship with this other guy was dead. I break up. HE’s devastated? Why? His ego was crushed by me leaving him! He had no blls to do this himself a long time ago when our relationship was really dead..

Erick says:

04:19pm | 21/10/11

@Dan - Thank you for your comment. I will think about it carefully for some time, as I have thought about my own actions. However, in both cases it was not the other person who did the asking - it was me. And I can be pretty persuasive when I’m in the mood. So I need to consider that. But you do raise a good point.

That said, I still recommend against interfering in other people’s relationships. There are many lovely singles out there - it’s better to pursue them than committed people who just happen to be in my immediate neighbourhood.

@fairsfair - Yes, you are right. I wasn’t talking about swinging. These were affairs where the other woman’s partner didn’t know or approve. In both cases, they broke up soon afterwards. That was my fault.

There’s nothing wrong with swinging if everyone involved approves. But what I did wasn’t like that. I seduced women who had a partner, and their relationships broke up after that. It was twenty years ago, but I still feel bad about it.

Hence my advice: Don’t.

Tim says:

04:30pm | 21/10/11

Kika,
Is anything ever your fault?
I can’t believe you’re actually trying to rationalise cheating on your partner.
Funny.

Kika says:

04:41pm | 21/10/11

Geez Tim I’m really getting you worked up today, aren’t I?

I admitted I was wrong, but I ended the relationship with my ex soon after. I had the guts to admit that our relationship was finished. When he cheated on me he never gave me the same respect to end it. Instead he kept lying and cheating on me behind my back having his cake and eating it too.

Kika says:

04:52pm | 21/10/11

Oh and @ Tim - nothing is ever my fault. I am a woman :-p

Hey I was pretty good to him. He and his family know that. He’s miserable now by all accounts and that is all I care about!

LauraBoBaura says:

04:56pm | 21/10/11

Kika - yep I’ve been cheated on as well. Hurts like hell.

I’m not going to try to rationalise what I did, it was wrong & there are no justifications that make it less wrong. But I guess you live & learn…

Erick says:

05:34pm | 21/10/11

@Kika - “He’s miserable now by all accounts and that is all I care about! “

So you’re driven by hatred. Sad, but it explains a lot.

Tim says:

06:00pm | 21/10/11

Kika,
I re read your first comment and I still can’t see where you admitted you were wrong. You only blamed him.
At least you admit you were partly wrong in your second comment.
There’s hope for you yet.

rockoyster says:

07:43pm | 21/10/11

@Erick - I am in awe of your breadth of knowledge and ability to comment learnedly on all manner of topics.

acotrel says:

05:21am | 22/10/11

@Erick and Markus
‘Swinging’ - what is that ?
Is there any love in your life ?  Sex with someone you love is better than sliced bread. It is worth looking for. The rest is rubbish.

Peter says:

06:58am | 22/10/11

@rockoyster - Erick is not real.  He is an avatar of Penbo, Tory and Sharwood.  They combine their efforts to produce all manner of comments from him, usually designed to incite.  Today it sounds like Tory is speaking through him, though.  Either that or he has had his medication.

Erick says:

10:44am | 22/10/11

@Peter - Technically, I’m an artificially intelligent software program, implemented on alien technology. But, who cares about details?

fairsfair says:

12:31pm | 21/10/11

I think it was her father who cheated.

In a later interview she called her Nanna a c*nt.

She’s a real peach by the sounds of things.

Kate says:

04:52pm | 21/10/11

Fairs, yep, she’s always come across as a bit of an insufferable c-word in my opinion!

Susan says:

01:47pm | 21/10/11

Never even crossed my mind to have an affair while married and I was fully aware of how unhappy I was in the last 5 of it.  No excuse to have an affair.  If you are not happy, regardless of how long the relationship has been going, be mature and honest and end it.

Tim says:

01:01pm | 21/10/11

“and though I did nothing to promote it “

Baps out perhaps?

fairsfair says:

02:07pm | 21/10/11

No!

Budz says:

01:42pm | 21/10/11

I don’t believe in unconditional love. Surely all love comes with the smallest level of conditions. i.e. trying to kill you or your loved ones?

Q says:

01:57pm | 25/10/11

Budz - if they are trying to kill you then they don’t love you.  You however have the ability to still love them as unconditional love is about who you are not who they are.  Love is actually a verb, it is something you do, so it is only really evident when you act.  An affair is not a loving action towards your partner, it is a selfish act.

jonno says:

01:33pm | 21/10/11

Yep, I married a girl who was a single mother. Treated her like a queen and told her i loved her every day. I raised her son as my own flesh and blood, we got no child maintenance from the biological dad who hasnt seen him since he was 1 year old, and we even had a daughter together.

She cheated on me and because of our effed up legal system its my responsibilty to pay for the kids not the guy who is currently plugging her. The way I see it you want the woman you take the whole package. But if she wants to leave you and get your rocks off with someone else its their responsibility to pay, not the bloke hes been effed over

Paul says:

04:07pm | 21/10/11

@ Johnno: I’ve seen that happen to a number of men where the biological father is a w@nker. I’m 39, divorced, no children and my motto is this, ‘Never get involved with a single mother, always tarp up and never believe the ‘I’ve got it sorted’ line and never provide any financial assistance to a woman who is not your wife whatsoever (Due to Mistress Legislation).’

In fact, and I’ll be perfectly blunt about it. I get told by women friends that, ‘I’ve got so much to offer!’ I’m sorry but that’s garbage and I usually reply with, ‘What have they got to offer me?’

I’ll most likely be branded a selfish misogynist but I’m approaching 40 very quickly and the risk profile of a modern day romance is simply too great for it to be considered. Having had to start again once was enough for me.

This sense of entitlement women have for your assets in the event of relationship breakdown has essentially turned a lot, not all women into prostitutes. And as for providing on-going financial support for children who are not biologically yours, single mothers just are not worth the risk.

I consider my now financially secure singleton status as a blessing. Good job, great friends, little debt and an international holiday once a year is enough for me.

Susan says:

04:35pm | 21/10/11

To jonno,

Now it is hard to trust again, right? And fair enough.

The sad thing, the nice girls miss out on the nice boys because they are now so wary….

Kika says:

04:47pm | 21/10/11

Paul - finally a man who agrees with me! Tarp it up and never trust a woman who says “I’ve got it sorted!”

As a female of child bearing years you would believe the sort of advice I’ve received from friends and family about ways I can get myself pregnant even though my husband isn’t ready to. I can’t even lie to him about a tiny scratch on the car let alone “Oh woops? How did this baby get here?”

JS says:

01:46pm | 21/10/11

http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/2011/sep/08/gwyneth-paltrow-thanks-sharing-film

Esteban says:

03:53pm | 21/10/11

surely looking is OK. Just because you are on a diet doesn’t mean you can’t read the menu!

michael j says:

12:59am | 22/10/11

@JS—A thanks for that ,,i almost feel normal again,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

LauraBoBaura says:

02:19pm | 21/10/11

That’s not really a’ffair now, is it.

I’m sorry. That was terrible.

KJ says:

03:44pm | 21/10/11

I think that trust is more important than monogamy. The problem with affairs is that normally one person is lying to the other in the relationship.

I think that as long as it is communicated and agreed on, going elsewhere to have your needs met should be valid.

marley says:

04:13pm | 21/10/11

I don’t begrudge anyone that, either - but I reckon if you’re not getting intimacy, you tell your partner there’s an issue to be addressed - and if he/she won’t or can’t, then you walk.  Unless of course your partner doesn’t have a problem with you getting your needs met elsewhere.

Bluebagger says:

01:05pm | 24/10/11

What if you don’t make excuses?  What if you go to your partner and say sorry?  And if they forgive you?  I’ve cheated and been forgiven.  I never tried to make an excuse for myself, I accepted what I had done, and took the punishment.  But that didn’t include breaking up.  We’re still together now, and I think if he ever cheated on me I would try my best to forgive and find a way to move forward.  Who cares what society thinks - its our relationship.

LizBriz says:

04:19pm | 21/10/11

Perhaps the attitude of a man who’s obsessed by “having sex” only with a thin wife might turn out to be the best contraceptive (or turnoff) ever - I wonder if it works both ways?  I really do hope you’re not serious!

fairsfair says:

04:20pm | 21/10/11

Yeah and they only wear white to match the appliances.

Don’t you sound like a keeper!

Fiona says:

12:10am | 22/10/11

Did that go into your marriage vows then? So can women cheat when their husbands get fat too?

Lee Enfield says:

04:08pm | 21/10/11

Bitches be carzy!

fairsfair says:

04:18pm | 21/10/11

I am personally of the opinion that if you cheat on one partner, you are likely to do it to multiple partners.

She is gutless fml. Sounds like she did, but lacked the fortitude to even be honest with you, even at the time she ended things. So not worth your love and affection. Not good enough for our fml!

LauraBoBaura says:

04:26pm | 21/10/11

I’d say she cheated on you fml to be honest -  I don’t think there’s any reason a woman would act like she cheated on you if she didn’t - unless she was looking for an easy out of the relationship, in which case she probably would have told you that she cheated on you….

fml says:

05:01pm | 21/10/11

Thanks peeps

PW says:

08:08pm | 24/10/11

For some sweet lasses (and I suppose some blokes too), it is easier to tell you they’ve dumped you for someone better than to tell you they haven’t found anyone better as yet, but are dumping you anyway. Kind of “I have met George Clooney” vs “You are a dork”.

This does beat not telling you at all, though.

fml says:

05:02pm | 21/10/11

What happens if you are happily married for 20 years and then your penis gets chopped off in a freak lawn mowing accident?

That would be fairly harsh.

Lee Rix says:

11:43pm | 21/10/11

oh ruuuuuubyyyyyy…don’t take your love to town.

Fran Smith says:

09:16pm | 21/10/11

Perhaps you should ask yourself WHY your husband doesn’t enjoy having sex with you and address that issue, instead of cheating on him.

cheryl says:

12:14am | 22/10/11

Been through the exact same thing! Your husband may be a victim of sexual abuse or he may be gay. It’s just not NORMAL for a man to be like that! I think before you do anything, you really need to end your marriage misery BEFORE you cheat. After all, it seems like you have nothing to lose, and everything to gain, emotionally, sexually and for your sanity.

marley says:

07:23am | 22/10/11

I think we’re into Ask Bossy territory here, but I’d say the lack of sex in your marriage is a symptom of something else - you and your husband have a dysfunctional relationship and you’re not communicating.  Get counselling.  If he’s not willing (or you’re not), leave him.  No point being unhappy for the rest of your life.  Then have your fling.  But don’t cheat.

Dodge says:

08:19am | 22/10/11

Is he affectionate? Does he hug and kiss you? Maybe your boring in bed and he chooses to please himself instead? (harsh I know, but people have different expectations when it comes to the bedroom). Are you generally fulfilled other than the sex component?

Unless he has an actual physical problem, there’s clearly a problem with motivation. You say there’s times every 3-6-9 months where it’s ok and then it falls off. well, Identify what was good and bad about that and repeat it or not as the case may be.

Men aren’t really designed to be monogomous afterall, that would not have been good design for early Homo-Sapiens. So, there has to be something that keeps him in the game (again, harsh, but reality is the best thing to confront). If nothing is keeping him there, and that includes your wonderful self,  leave.

PK says:

05:27pm | 22/10/11

LOL Fran. I’ve been trying to address this for years and have been faithful all this time. To clarify, we’ll talk about it, have sex once and he’ll enjoy it and then he won’t be interested in it again for another 3,6,9 months and then we’ll argue again.

To be frank, he finds me sexually arousing but doesn’t want to make the effort to move at all.

He’ll physically push me away, tell me no, get angry with me, etc. At some point this is soul destroying.

After 9 years of trying to talk about it, he tells me now he doesn’t feel good about himself and that’s why. It would have helped if he had told me this years ago instead of being really hurtful towards me. He brought me to tears many times. Not begging for sex but because of how he treated me when I tried to bring it up. You don’t know Fran so please don’t assume anything.

I thought it may be a medical issue too but I’ve looked into this and it doesn’t appear to be. He denies that he has issues to his medical team too

acotrel says:

09:24pm | 23/10/11

@Neslihan
I’ve been in two situations, I know which is better.  If you are in love and commited there is no comparison with the alternative.  There are much better ways of getting excitement, than sneaking around ! I don’t really believe in marriage or monogamy.  I married my wife because I wanted to commit my life to her.  I’m faithful to her because I don’t want anybody else.  She is my intellectual equal, my true friend, and when we have our terrible fights, we resolve our issues, and I feel secure.

Paul says:

01:17pm | 22/10/11

@ Cheryl: I’m single and haven’t been intimate with a woman for about 3 years. I’m not homosexual (I worked that out when I was about eight) but I’m just not interested in sexually transmitted debt or other financial issues or those with children.

I actually find solace by heading into the bush, camping and fishing usually alone. People find it odd that I don’t go out to pubs or clubs, prefer to cook something nice at home or campfire (Donna Hay’s books rock, but my freshly caught, cured then applewood smoked trout with some crusty italian bread and butter beats anything in Donna or Jamie’s books) and I’ve had women actually presume that I’m gay and say I need to ‘come out’.

I find that most women are presumptuous, too quick to stereotype the male of the species and have an idealised ‘Better homes and gardens’ view of what their lives should be like. And when their lives invariably are not the dream version they look at their partners as if it’s their fault.

As for not wanting sex being abnormal you may be right. But I do know this, when it comes to money, women are mean, greedy and selfish. The modern woman is just not worth the risk in order to achieve climax.

marley says:

01:11pm | 23/10/11

@Paul - you know, there are lots of women out there who aren’t “mean, greedy and selfish.”  There are lots of women with jobs and assets the equal of yours.  Perhaps you don’t think it’s worth the effort to find them, or perhaps you don’t trust your own judgement to select the right one or ones, but that doesn’t mean they don’t exist.

Paul says:

01:49pm | 23/10/11

@ Marley: You’re right Marley, for me the effort to find them is not worth the risk. That’s the point. I think you’ll find there are many good guys around who feel the same way having been screwed by a bitch and the legal system. Although most blokes will never admit that to a female especially if he in with a chance.

Anyhoo, I’m off now to do some man stuff before the start of the Rugby World Cup final. Best of luck to our Kiwi brethren, go hard fellas.

PK says:

05:38pm | 22/10/11

Hi Sean.

He won’t admit there is a problem. It’s very very hard (pun not intended). He gets aroused, he gets hard, he could have sex but it’s like he doesn’t want to? Doesn’t want to enjoy himself? I don’t know what’s mentally blocking him.

I ask him to be honest and ask if it’s me. I insist for answers, to try and help our situation but he refuses. I mean, maybe I am boring in bed? I am willing to change/try new things but I want it to be both of us that try.

If we do have that sex once or twice a year, it’s only with him doing nothing and me doing all the work. That’s also frustrating. Without going into too much detail, I also want to be taken, to be pleasured.

He is very affectionate otherwise. Very huggy, kissy, comforting, sweet. This is why it hurts me when he pushes me away and makes me cry. The crying is not because of the no sex thing. It’s the non communicating with me what’s blocking him. And this is why it breaks my heart that if he found out what I am doing. It would break him really. I know he loves me.

So I understand you and appreciate your comment Sean.

Thank you for not judging me. Thank you for reading between the lines of my post.

I can understand fully why you’ve made your choices too.

Years ago when I got married to my husband, I never imagined that I’d even consider all of this.