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Sometimes, you’ve just got to stick it to the bloody ref

Filed under: Ethics, Friday Dilemma, Gambling, Melbourne Cup

62 comments

By now, you’re sick of the Cup, we’re sick of the Cup. But here’s a doozy of a dilemma regarding the luckiest and most ungrateful punter in Australia.

This wasn't the only messy situation on Cup day. Pic: Cameron Richardson.

On Tuesday, a friend of The Punch’s went to the TAB to put on his bets. Before leaving, he asked his workmates if he could put any bets on for them.

One guy in his 60s gave our friend $6 for a “mystery box trifecta”. That’s when the TAB computer randomly selects three horses and if they run the placings any which way, the bet wins.

And boy, did the bet win. A cool $4,798.10 thanks very much. The punter, naturally, was over the moon. And duly pocketed the ticket with no further correspondence entered into.

Which brings us to the dilemma. Should the lucky punter have flicked his workmate a small share of the winnings?

Let’s recap the facts. There is no way the guy would have even considered the bet if not prompted by his workmate. And even if he had gone off and done it himself, the computer would have randomly selected three totally different horses if the ticket had gone into the machine a millisecond earlier or later.

Surely we can agree that the guy who placed the bet deserves at least a case of beer. But does he deserve more? A hundred bucks? The change down to $4,000? Half the winnings?

Or does he deserve squat? You help a little old lady across the road, you don’t stick your hand out for a tip. Maybe this was no different.

You tell us.

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62 comments

Show oldest | newest first

- fml says:
  
  11:43am | 04/11/11
  
  It would be nice.
  
  Reply
fml says:

12:23pm | 04/11/11

I never get first, i wish i had something more exciting to say!
- Super D says:
  
  11:53am | 04/11/11
  
  If a stockbroker gives his client a tip on speccy mining stock that strikes gold the broker doesn’t get a cut of the clients windfall. If a postman delivers a cheque he doesn’t get a percentage. The.winner isn’t obliged in anyway to share the spoils though a few beers wouldn’t go astray.
  
  What would have been interesting is if the buyer had bought 2 or more mystery tickets.
  
  Reply
KH says:

12:55pm | 04/11/11

Key words “stockbroker” and “client” - this is a business arrangement - the client is paying the guy to pick the stocks. Not the same situation.
SM says:

01:22pm | 04/11/11

“What would have been interesting is if the buyer had bought 2 or more mystery tickets”

Punting etiquette requires that if multiple people had paid for mystery trifectas, before the commencement of the race each of them must either have their tcket in their hand, or have been advised as to what selections they are on.

Just like if you ask someone to put a bet on for you. The person putting the bet on, again before the commencement of the race, must advise you as to whether or not the bet has actually been plaxced

“Woo hoo, my bet won!”

“Sorry mate, I didn’t make it to the TAB in time…”
- Michael says:
  
  12:03pm | 04/11/11
  
  The person that bought the ticket has the reward of doing a good deed without expectation and seeing his good deed realise it’s maximum potential for payoff simply adds to the pleasant feeling of having done a nice thing.
  
  The person who received the deed is rewarded by the winfall and for helping the good deed doer, do the deed.
  
  The space made for feeling badly about it is the result of imposing an expectation on the value of having bought the ticket as being a percentage of the winnings, if there are any winnings at all.
  
  Having bought a losing bet would not have brought about any reactions at all because the value of buying a losing ticket is obviously zero, the difference therefore is the winnings not the deed itself or the value of doing nice things for people.
  
  If you don’t owe compensation for the losing ticket why are you entitled to a reward for buying them the winning ticket?
  
  Reply
marley says:

12:22pm | 04/11/11

You’re not entitled, but it would still be a nice gesture. I’d have given the guy a $100 bucks for taking the time to get the ticket.
matt says:

12:23pm | 04/11/11

Michael for Prime Minister!!
Michael says:

01:25pm | 04/11/11

Agreed Marley.

Thanks Matt…sort of I’m too selfish to give away my personal life to serve the interests of the nation.
Angry Fat Bitch says:

06:37pm | 06/11/11

Agreed Marley.

What can I say? I’m a nice person. And if it were me that won the money I’d gladly slip the buyer $100 for their trouble. Not because I should, just because it’s a nice thing to do.

Then I’d promptly spend the money and make it known that the money has been spent, so no one comes asking for a loan.
- Dick says:
  
  12:04pm | 04/11/11
  
  So if it didn’t win, would the punter be expected to cop a share of the loss? Just the same, if it were me someone put the bet on for, I reckon I’d be buying all my workmates a drink, and an extra slab for the punter (hope that gets you guys a drink).
  
  Reply
- Battered Sav says:
  
  12:05pm | 04/11/11
  
  What a bag of douche. Share.
  
  Reply
libveg says:

07:16pm | 04/11/11

How can you be a bag of douche??

Think before type. Share.
- simone says:
  
  12:06pm | 04/11/11
  
  a few rounds of drinks should even it out…
  
  Reply
- Bitten says:
  
  12:11pm | 04/11/11
  
  If both parties are greedy, it doesn’t matter what is done, one or other or both of them will be unhappy. If both parties are generous in spirit, then any gesture will be sufficient to make both feel happy. The exact gesture is irrelevant, the crucial factor is the personalities of those involved.
  
  Reply
- Peter says:
  
  12:13pm | 04/11/11
  
  Another Friday non-dilemma. Do you guys actually know what a dilemma is? It is not a moral or ethical question. It’s a choice between two equally unattractive options.
  
  Reply
jf says:

12:29pm | 04/11/11

For instance, giving someone some of your money or being perceived as a greedy miser.
Anthony Sharwood says:

12:38pm | 04/11/11

Unattractive option 1. Give some money away.

Unattractive option 2. Be a bastard
Anthony Sharwood says:

12:45pm | 04/11/11

It looks like I copied you jf, but your comment was not yet uloaded when I was writing mine, I swear!
Peter says:

01:05pm | 04/11/11

Well, you’re the wordsmith, Anthony, so I’ll concede to your view. Yet, i would have thought that that this is merely an ethical/moral question (should I do the right thing/what is it), not so much a dilemma (damned if I do/damned if I don’t, so which is the least worse).
- Crazy Dave says:
  
  12:19pm | 04/11/11
  
  It’s the same as buying a scratchie for someone for their birthday. If they win you don’t expect a cut…
  
  Reply
SM says:

01:26pm | 04/11/11

They don’t expect it, but if you don’t offer one after wining, you’re a tightarse, just like Mr Mystery Trifecta
- bad dog says:
  
  12:19pm | 04/11/11
  
  Placing a bet’s all about winning money, that’s the sole reason why anyone bothers. Yes it’s a total surprise he actually won but does that subtract from the act of betting itself? Would his colleague have refunded him the $6 had he lost? Of course not and nor would he have been expected to. So why should he be expected to give away the money he won when he won it undertaking a purely, 100% money-making activity?!
  
  But there’s certainly nothing wrong with this bloke taking his workmates out for a long lunch and not penny-pinching on the champagne!
  
  Reply
- iansand says:
  
  12:26pm | 04/11/11
  
  Slab of beer. Or lunch at a decent restaurant. That’s about it.
  
  Reply
- Tim says:
  
  12:28pm | 04/11/11
  
  He deserves a thanks and that’s it.
  If the bet had have lost would your made have given him any money back?
  
  Reply
- xar says:
  
  12:45pm | 04/11/11
  
  I wouldn’t expect anything, I don’t think it fair to have any sense of expectation over what the other person does with their winnings. Sure it would be nice to recieve some gesture, but I wouldn’t feel bad if there wasn’t one forthcoming!
  
  Reply
- jay-ded says:
  
  12:48pm | 04/11/11
  
  I can’t believe that in the picture, people are sitting and lying in all that rubbish!
  
  Reply
sven svensenburger says:

04:27am | 05/11/11

jay ded, i agree, what a filthy lot they are. Just think all the money spent on the glamour and they walk around pissed in that filth. The rest of it is just crap and the flogging of the poor horses is just another sin.

Human beings, a sorry lot.
- Fred says:
  
  12:56pm | 04/11/11
  
  $800 is a bit much. I’d say about $500.
  
  Lesson learned: don’t offer to put bets on for anyone.
  
  It might be different if the old boy had put some time and effort into choosing the horses and had told the ticket buyer what to bet on, the horse that came second was about 50-1, so not many people would have bothered to bet on that and that’s why the trifecta was big.
  
  Reply
- Swarley says:
  
  12:57pm | 04/11/11
  
  I would have given him half, but then, I don’t really need it anyway. I’d only spend it on crap, so, why not let someone who kicked it off spend it on crap. I do the same thing with awards at work if multiple people were involved and I received the award.
  
  Reply
- Brizben says:
  
  12:57pm | 04/11/11
  
  Offer to give him four hundred minimum (10%) or buy him something nice eg if he has car rego due pay it for him, or an iPad with a subscription to his favourite papers.
  
  But seeing he offered nothing I would go him for half. An early resolution would ahve saved him money.
  
  Reply
- KH says:
  
  12:58pm | 04/11/11
  
  If I were the person winning the money, I would buy the guy who bought the ticket for me a nice bottle of something or a slab (if that was his preference). Why not. Its $4k I didn’t have before.
  
  Reply
- Roh says:
  
  12:59pm | 04/11/11
  
  What DID happen is what I want to know. Are you asking b/c the person who put the bet on is cranky he got nothing in return? Or are you asking b/c the person who won was so generous others are saying, “Wow, I wouldn’t have done that!?”
  
  Reply
- natweeza says:
  
  01:02pm | 04/11/11
  
  Once I went to bingo with a friend and she won the top prize - $10,000. She gave me a $100, which was completely unecessary but very generous.
  
  Something should have been offered. it says a lot about their personality that it wasn’t.
  
  Reply
fml says:

01:16pm | 04/11/11

Thats right,

You dont have to offer, but expect everybody to think very little of you. Its the choice of the winner, they can control what people think of them, it just depends how much its worth to them.
SM says:

02:02pm | 04/11/11

@ natweeza
“Something should have been offered. it says a lot about their personality that it wasn’t”

Spot on
- T says:
  
  01:10pm | 04/11/11
  
  No way. I say give him $500. That still leaves you with heaps but it’s enough to really brighten the guys week.
  Gosh u guys are mean!
  
  Reply
- S.L says:
  
  01:13pm | 04/11/11
  
  I couldn’t do it. My concience would make me do the right thing. My work syndicate won just over $1,000 on lotto 2 weeks ago. I put the ticket in (an autopick) the last thing on that Saturday afternoon so only I knew the numbers. As soon as our numbers dropped I rang the biggest mouth in our group so I suppose the lousiest thing I did was only making 1 phone call know the rest would know in minutes….......
  
  Reply
- RyaN says:
  
  01:14pm | 04/11/11
  
  This seems like it should be resolved with a case of beers, premium type!
  
  Reply
- John Smythe says:
  
  01:23pm | 04/11/11
  
  >>>You help a little old lady across the road, you don’t stick your hand out for a tip.
  
  Simple as that. When offering to buy the ticket, did the ticket buyer state the pre-requisite that they expect something in return should the ticket win? Doesn’t look like it.
  
  To even think something not nice about the winner for not giving something shows how shallow some people can be.
  
  Reply
Mahhrat says:

01:33pm | 04/11/11

Oh goodness me, you absolute muppet.

Would I expect to be rewarded for buying the ticket? No.

Would I reward someone who bought me a ticket? Yes.

The two don’t have to be mutually exclusive. It’s called being nice to people.
John Smythe says:

01:40pm | 04/11/11

Mahrat, the argument is from the perspective of the person who offered to buy the ticket for someone else. Not if you were the winner.

My last point still stands.
Tim the Toolman says:

02:18pm | 04/11/11

No John, it tells you a lot about the person, and the chances of them being on the end of an unnecessary handout in the future, should roles be reversed.
John Smythe says:

03:18pm | 04/11/11

Perhaps I should have been clearer with “my argument…” not “the argument….”

Again though, taken from the perspective of the person who offered to buy the ticket for someone, the point still remains.

The whole concept that the winner “should” give something in return further illustrates the point there is an “expectation” that something should be done. It is that expectation itself, that undermines the overall gesture of someone doing something nice in return.

In that context, Mahrat’s reply to me was correct, because it is what HE would do. A lot of comments here are enforcing their expectations on someone to act how it benefits them, when the initial gesture was from someone offering to put in a ticket to begin with.

Kindness begins with the self, not from what someone else expects you to do.

I stand by my comments.
- TimB says:
  
  01:25pm | 04/11/11
  
  Nope. Not entitled to anything
  
  Sure it’d be nice if the winner passed something over. But in no way should anything be expected as some sort of deserved due. Others above have pointed out similar situations (such as the biorthday scratchie) where no such expections exist. This should be no different.
  
  If the person who really purchased the ticket *really* feels put out by it, they can simply resolve not to go out of the way to do favours for the winner again.
  
  Reply
- Mahhrat says:
  
  01:26pm | 04/11/11
  
  Buying someone a winning ticket and EXPECTING a payout? Dick move.
  
  Someone buys you a random ticket that wins massively and you don’t sare? Dick move.
  
  TL:DR? - The buyer shouldn’t expect one, but he should get one.
  
  Reply
Micky G says:

04:26pm | 04/11/11

Mahrat, I actually think you are spot on. You can never be happy if you impress your own expectation on other people. The buyer shouldn’t EXPECT any repayment, otherwise every time you do a favour for someone which isn’t returned you get upset or disappointed and you are letting other people control how you feel. The good feeling of doing the favour was the reward. Subsequently the ticket holder could have given himself good vibes by rewarding the purchaser, though he was under no obligation to do so.
- Arnold Layne says:
  
  02:18pm | 04/11/11
  
  I wouldn’t give him a payout, but I’d get him an expensive bottle of scotch or something. It’s not about expectation here people, it’s about being polite.
  
  The other thing about mystery trifectas of course is that the horses the punter received were only his because of the exact moment his colleague put the bet through. It’s not like he was putting a bet on where the other guy had already decided which horses he wanted. In this situation a gesture of thanks involving a gift of some kind is entirely appropriate.
  
  Reply
- Daniel says:
  
  03:43pm | 04/11/11
  
  A slab of beer or a nice bottle of something at the least or maybe just of the winnings… If he gave nothing that makes him a tight c#*t.
  
  Reply
- Vicki PS says:
  
  04:26pm | 04/11/11
  
  Back when the Golden Casket still operated, it was standard etiquette when buying a ticket as a gift to put the ticket in both the donor’s and recipient’s names.
  
  Reply
- MattyC says:
  
  04:27pm | 04/11/11
  
  Would have thought a couple hundred on the bar for the office would have suffice
  
  Reply
- Paul M says:
  
  04:51pm | 04/11/11
  
  The moment you have a bit of cash, every bastard in the room wants a slice of it. Go for a walk down Civic, any time, day or night: “Mate! Mate! Have you got two bucks for the bus?”
  
  Reply
- Kram says:
  
  07:15pm | 04/11/11
  
  Buy him a pony!
  
  Reply
- stephen says:
  
  08:35pm | 04/11/11
  
  His only responsibiltiy is to maintain the obvious sociability that gave him the bet in the first place : he takes his friends to the pub or to a parlour, (er, that’s milkshake) and treats all to 2 drinks or ‘shakes’ each.
  
  ps problem with winning on a nag, everyone thinks they gotta get a piece of the action. Last time I won a trifecta, it was ‘84, and black night won the cup, and I got taken to the ‘red-lights’ in Toowoomba, (and trust me, even then it was a ‘cow’ town - nearly turned me vegan) but I got what I wanted ... er, meat.
  
  Reply
- rod sexton says:
  
  11:21pm | 04/11/11
  
  Squat.
  
  Reply
stephen says:

11:59pm | 04/11/11

Kumquat ?
- NESLIHAN KUROSAWA says:
  
  11:28pm | 04/11/11
  
  Hi Punch Team,
  
  For me personally, just another excuse for a party, right?? Must be great for all the winners and for the losers another story, I guess!! I surely hope that it was worth every one’s time & effort!! I am only wondering why you chose to say the Melbourne Cup Angel?? Somehow, I still do not get what you have to win big as well!!
  
  Are we really sick & tired of the Melbourne Cup Day, really?? All that effort which goes into getting all dressed up & not to mention the fancy hats. I am certain that it makes some of the Melbourne Population very excited & happy for once a year!! Which can not be all that bad!! Good Luck to all those responsible for collecting the garbage left behind!! Best regards to your editors.
  
  Reply
palone says:

12:13pm | 05/11/11

N.K. Remember, Satan was an angel. And the litter is easily cleaned up. It’s the people who are the real garbage.
- Dallas Beaufort says:
  
  12:09am | 05/11/11
  
  Having confidence in the $6 bet, you could of doubled it to $12 and explained your trust in his choice and shared the double win.
  
  Reply
- Jos says:
  
  12:16am | 05/11/11
  
  I think the guy expecting part of the payment is a fine example of the declining culture of Australia. Why should the chap in his 60s give him some of his winnings? Why? Just because he bought that ticket - and all the other tickets in the office? C’mon! How do you know that the guy in his 60s isn’t completely financially stretched, staring a poverty-struck retirement in the near future, and that $4000 (which is really not that much…the baby bonus is twice that!) is going to give him a little helping hand. I am sure he said ‘thanks’ to the guy when handed the ticket; surely that is all that is required. If not, then welcome to Australia, where we tip everybody for every little thing. No act of ‘kindness’ will go without payment, no siree!
  
  Reply
- Utopia Boy says:
  
  03:16pm | 06/11/11
  
  I worked for a bloke once who always organised syndicates for horse races, lotteries etc, including recommending particular horses for trifectas (never a mystery pick). Problem was one day I noticed he put a personal bet on a horse (2nd or third favourite) that came home with the money. But that horse wasn’t on any of our tickets!
  Lesson learned.
  
  Reply

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fml says:

fml says:

Super D says:

KH says:

SM says:

Michael says:

marley says:

matt says:

Michael says:

Angry Fat Bitch says:

Dick says:

Battered Sav says:

libveg says:

simone says:

Bitten says:

Peter says:

jf says:

Anthony Sharwood says:

Anthony Sharwood says:

Peter says:

Crazy Dave says:

SM says:

bad dog says:

iansand says:

Tim says:

xar says:

jay-ded says:

sven svensenburger says:

Fred says:

Swarley says:

Brizben says:

KH says:

Roh says:

natweeza says:

fml says:

SM says:

T says:

S.L says:

RyaN says:

John Smythe says:

Mahhrat says:

John Smythe says:

Tim the Toolman says:

John Smythe says:

TimB says:

Mahhrat says:

Micky G says:

Arnold Layne says:

Daniel says:

Vicki PS says:

MattyC says:

Paul M says:

Kram says:

stephen says:

rod sexton says:

stephen says:

NESLIHAN KUROSAWA says:

palone says:

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