ClubsNSW is set to introduce a fresh new effort to combat schoolyard intimidation, insisting on a principal’s reference for young job seekers so they can rule out those who had been involved in bullying. It’s a bold step, which ClubsNSW chief executive Anthony Ball says could be a deterrent for any young person worried about their future job prospects.

Cartoon: Warren Brown

“If students have engaged in serious bullying, cyber stalking or threatening behaviour clubs will not hesitate to reject their job application,” Ball said.

Students who own up to and show remorse for their schooldays’ behaviour may be given an exemption. The thing is, some of the nicest adults you’ll meet will admit after a few wines to having indulged in some pretty nasty bullying at school. One woman I know, who is a selfless, generous, intelligent adult, didn’t attend her first school reunion because she was worried about what reception she would get from some of the people she socially tormented at school.

So today’s question - once a bully always a bully? How long should you pay for your teenage bad deeds?

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125 comments

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    • St. Michael says:

      11:08am | 25/05/12

      How long do your victims pay for it?

      A lifetime, in some cases.

    • GetRidOfCommies says:

      11:40am | 25/05/12

      I suggest these ‘victims’ swallow some concrete and harden the f… up.

      Bullying is a natural behaviour that establishes a pecking order. The Omega class just needs to accept this. A society without a pecking order is better known as communism.

    • fml says:

      11:57am | 25/05/12

      GROC,

      That’s bully talk.

    • JB says:

      12:27pm | 25/05/12

      @GetRidOfCommies, If you have every been bullied you could understand, but judging by your a post you were the bully forcing your opinion on others. “natural behaviour that establishes a pecking order”
      You sound like a person who would have gotten on well with Dr Josef Mengele. Bullying comes in many forms, clearly you have practiced them all.

    • Kheiron says:

      12:33pm | 25/05/12

      If ‘victims’ were taught effective methods for dealing with bullying everyone would be better off. As it is we tell them to run and tell and go out of our way to shield them from any hardships through childhood. The intentions might be noble but the results are horrendous.

      When I started highschool I was too short to see into my locker. I tended to get As and didn’t play sport. I’ve also got red hair. There are few people a more stereotypical target than I was.
      But I dealt with it by ignoring them. You don’t react you’re no fun to torment. Plus I could talk my way out of a confrontation and didn’t give them a genuine reason to want to hurt me (like getting them in trouble with the teacher or tormenting them back).
      Problem solved.

      If we gave ‘victims’ the means to follow suit then we wouldn’t need these pointless, moronic displays of discrimination disguised as empathy that only worsen the problem.

      Besides, when has a teenager ever given much thought to the future when performing a dumb action?

    • Sad Sad Reality says:

      12:45pm | 25/05/12

      Yes GROC, because the psychologically damaged kid who gets beaten at home and takes out his internal tumult on those around him is the top of the human sociological pecking order. I can’t wait until we can develop some flint tools and leave this cave.

    • Alex says:

      12:53pm | 25/05/12

      @Kheiron, so what you are essentially is that it’s not the fault of the bullies, but the victims, for not handling their punishment better. 

      Hilarious.

    • Tubesteak says:

      01:00pm | 25/05/12

      Thouroughly agree with GetRidOfCommies

      Every person except for the weak and gutless was a bully at one stage or another and every person has been bullied. Toughen up and get over it. It’s a natural part of life. I used to bully and I was also bullied. It’s part of the rough and tumble of the schoolyard and I don’t know anyone that I went to school with that didn’t do it.

    • Borderer says:

      01:10pm | 25/05/12

      A victim of bullying will always be a victim until they stand up for themselves. Running only means you avoid that bully and are ripe for the next one that comes along. It can be a schoolmate, colleague, boss, friend or partner.
      I had plenty of people try and bully me over the years and I got better dealing with it as I got older. I found that telling someone to shove their opinion and attitude worked wonders. Also telling someone what you think of their behaviour, blunt direct and loud…. it’s truely liberating.

    • Hamish says:

      01:19pm | 25/05/12

      I believe there are really two types of bullying…one is a necessary part of teaching social skills and establishing a social hierarchy. Everyone is a bully-er and a bully-ee in this sense. It’s generally pretty low impact and a necessary part of growing up. Then there is victimisation which I think is a better term than bullying. This generally only happens to a small number of people who are social outcasts for whatever reason. Most people are not the victims nor the perpetrators of this kind of bullying.

    • Kheiron says:

      01:23pm | 25/05/12

      Did anyone say ‘fault’, Alex?

      What I’m saying is you can help stop bullying at both ends.
      If you need an example at your level, try this.
      If Elmur Fudd didn’t get so worked up over Bugs Bunny and just calmed down there’d be no continuous conflict between them.
      However, if Bugs stopped being such a pestering dick Elmur wouldn’t have cause to shoot at him either. Problem solved again.

      At the very least instilling some sense of scale and self reliance in youngsters might stop the next one from hanging themselves at the local park because they got called names on Facebook.

    • AdamC says:

      01:35pm | 25/05/12

      GetRidOfCommies, great name, mate, but terrible attitude to bullying.

      Alphas deal in admiration, not fear. And, workplace wise, you can only bully or psycho yourself into the middle ranks.

    • Chris says:

      01:42pm | 25/05/12

      Go GROC! 
      Anyway, what a stupid idea by the clubs… do they really think some kid in the school yard gives a shit about whether or not some bloody RSL club is going to hire him to give out coins to endless lines of 70 year old blue rinse poker addicts?????
      My boy made a total arsehole of himself showing off at school the other day in front of my wife, and she took him aside to get stuck into him and all the other boys kept yelling out over the fence that he was a legend. It has taken days for me to get him down off his bloody ego and admit what he did was wrong and stupid. Kids in the school yard surrounded by their mates are close to impossible to hose down - and this idea by the clubs is worse than a lettuce leaf - hell, my boy still thinks he is going to be a bloody fighter pilot or sports star or action hero, he couldn’t care less about ClubsNSW.

    • Kheiron says:

      04:50pm | 25/05/12

      @St Micheal, your links only prove the point.
      A bunch of kids taking their lives (or trying) because people called them names. If that’s not a clear case for cement needy kids I don’t know what is.

    • St. Michael says:

      06:22pm | 25/05/12

      @ Kheiron: I think it generally takes a level of abuse and humiliation beyond calling people a few names for a preteen to top himself, mate.  There’s not much in the world that can completely and permanently steal a kid’s smile.  Child abuse is one of them.  Bullying is another.  You’re talking systematic bullying over long periods of time, including at home via social media, not a few names called on the playground.

    • Kheiron says:

      08:43am | 26/05/12

      @St Michael
      In some cases, sure, and in those cases assisting the victim with practical advice on how to over come bullying will go a lot further than trying to punish the perpetrator(s). But lets be honest, kids can be really stupid.
      We have kids who have killed themselves over video games. Some asian girl topped herself because she got stuck on a level and some other kid jumped out of a window because his parents banned him from playing. If I recall correctly, the youngest suicide, a girl of 6, killed herself after getting into a fight with her mother. These kids were all seriously lacking in judgement.

      Also, about your link about 10 year old Ashlynn Conner, the investigation turned up no evidence that bullying was a factor. What she did have was a highly suicidal grandmother and a mother with a history of suicide attempts as well. There wasn’t even any evidence she was bullied at all and all the mothers claims about teacher neglect were found baseless.
      Seems to be just a mother trying to find someone to blame for a suicide she was probably the largest contributing factor for.

      http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-03-20/news/ct-met-ashley-conner-suicide-0320-20120320_1_death-suicide-coroner-peggy-johnson-investigators

      Also, I feel I should make special mention of this part.

      “In my experience in handling suicides, there’s seldom one factor that brings someone to the point that they take their own life,” Hartshorn said. “There’s usually multiple factors, and I would guess that is the case with Ashlynn.”

      As such, targeting bullying will, with perfect results, only remove one possible contributing factor for youth suicide and still leave kids completely unprepared to properly deal with other issues tempting them to end their own lives. However, dealing directly with the kids and showing them ways to over come these feelings and achieve realistic results would decrease the effect of any and all factors in suicide.

    • Jay says:

      09:39pm | 26/05/12

      Being badly bullied at school can and often does flow over into adulthood.
      Some kids never make it to adulthood suiciding,because as you often do at that age, school is your life and rarely do you have the maturity to see a future beyond it.
      One lady, a grandmother, told me with tears in her eyes, how her grandson at the age of 14 was bullied so badly, he refused to go back to ANY school. He stopped sleeping at night, frequently was an emotional mess even with counselling. They ended up buying him a dog which became his lifeline to hang on and sleep.  This poor kid never went back to school and ended up being home schooled. He was physically and emotionally bullied for two years straight. Imagine telling that kid with his broken nose and ripped shirt to suck it up.
      The bullies went relatively unscathed, expelled after multiple complaints from multiple parents and the police were eventually involved, but the damage was done. Three kids were homeschooled and another half a dozen transferred to another.
      It’s alright to say toughen up, but how many people at they age seriously had the confidence and ability to handle situations involving abuse?
      I’m a pretty strong person, but as a teenager, the most I wanted was to float through my school days unoticed.

      Another friend had her daughter leave school at the age of 14 and even then they started a facebook page which amongst other things called her fat; stupid; a lesbian; a slut; advising her to kill herselfand so on it goes.
      Remember this girl was 14, not an experienced adult that may have been able to handle it.

      Maybe the people who’s very simplied advice to “toughen up and get over it” were the dominant people at school, who perhaps weren’t ever in the unfortunate situation of being bullied. The total lack of empathy for victims is quite telling to me.

      So if school age ‘children’ 5-18 yrs just have to suck it up, swallow some concrete (or whatever), I’m presuming the same people must feel that bullying (both physical and emotional) is perfectly okay in the workplace or just acceptable in general everyday society.

      That should clear the courts out in no time, because anything short of serious assualt and above, people should just “suck it the hell up”.
      Good enough for kids, then by the same token it should be good enough for the adults who embrace those philosophies.
      Lord of the Flies here we come….

    • Daniel Casse says:

      11:14am | 25/05/12

      Just a ‘save face’ campaign fo the clubs.

    • GetRidOfCommies says:

      11:32am | 25/05/12

      The only clubs that need to save face are the Labor Clubs. The community sports clubs scored an epic victory over Juliar and her communist cohorts who tried to implement a Stalinist takeover of the community clubs sector.

    • TerryTiger says:

      11:17am | 25/05/12

      No. They join the Liberal Party.

      Look at what is being done to an innocent man like Craig Thompson. Schoolyard bullying by our elected representatives.

    • Borderer says:

      11:59am | 25/05/12

      Look Snorri, Trolls….

    • Vince says:

      11:59am | 25/05/12

      Spot.  On.

    • TerryTiger says:

      12:14pm | 25/05/12

      Typical response from people who think it is ok to bully someone to the brink. If you don’t think what is going on is bullying I’d like to see what is.

    • Anne71 says:

      12:24pm | 25/05/12

      @TerryTiger - agreed. But you’ll never get the LNP fangirls to agree with that. They think that sort of behaviour is perfectly acceptable - unless, of course, it’s directed at someone in the LNP.

    • Hamish says:

      12:28pm | 25/05/12

      TerryTiger, If Thomson resigns it will stop a lot of the circus around him and it ain’t the Coalition stopping him from resigning. It’s the media who are the bigger culprits and I agree that they are basically bullying him.

    • JB says:

      12:30pm | 25/05/12

      Oh TerryTiger, I can not believe how much ill informed crap can come out of your mouth. Again the Labor/Union card carrying member speaks. Saying that Craig Thompson is innocent is like saying the Hitler was misunderstood! Hey that’s what Labor have in common with the Nazi’s, they both believe that they should rule to world and all must bow before them!!

    • GL says:

      12:58pm | 25/05/12

      I think you are right. I do not know if Mr. Thompson is innocent or not, the way Tony A acting is bullying. Taking someone sin(right or not) in the spot light for so long, only agree to back up until the victim break, leave out of the sight forever, or dead(and I can see he will continue after the victim is gone, calling name, make fun out of it, say “I told you so” )Only bully will do something like that.  Do not forget the Australian are watching, people could start to think they can get what they want, get rid of someone, get into power by bullying.  What will the world think about this? A lot of   oversea do not want to invest in Australia because of government unstable. I do not think it is because of a minor government, but the way our high up gov us.

    • SAm says:

      12:58pm | 25/05/12

      JB nothing was said of inncence, its bullying, regardless of Thompsons guilt or innocence

    • Martin says:

      01:07pm | 25/05/12

      Look at what is being done to an innocent man like Craig Thompson. Schoolyard bullying by our elected representatives and their cronies

      Look at what is being done to an innocent woman like Pauline Hanson. Schoolyard bullying by our elected representatives and their cronies

      Look at what is being done to the majority of the australian people imposing the carbon tax without any democratic debate . Schoolyard bullying by our elected representatives and their cronies.

      Look at what is being done to the majority of the australian people imposing any phoney laws without any democratic debate . Schoolyard bullying by our elected representatives and their cronies.

      Look at what is being done to the majority of the australian people imposing an open border without any democratic debate . Schoolyard bullying by our elected representatives and their cronies.

      Look at what is being done to the majority of the australian people imposing an open border without any democratic debate . Schoolyard bullying by our elected representatives and their cronies.

      Look at what is being done to the majority of the australian people imposing a law so we can’t touch them without any democratic debate . Schoolyard bullying by our elected representatives and their cronies.

      Look at what is being done to the majority of the australian people imposing the rule of tolerance without any democratic debate so there is no border to protect us from the new criminals. Schoolyard bullying by our elected representatives and theirs cronies.

      Direct democracy is the only answer right now before we become dinosaur and our society gone for ever.

      Why does Tony lets “shit happens” everyday if our system is the best?

      Can anyone define democracy when the people are irrelevant after each election?

      Is that what we teach in our school the rule of tolerance which is put up and shut up so the true bullies can impose what they think we ought to have any phoney laws ?

      A true mafiacracy is what our system is that no one dare to speak loudly

      WHY?

    • JB says:

      01:45pm | 25/05/12

      @SAm, “Look at what is being done to an innocent man like Craig Thompson”.
      That seems to be talking about innocence to me.

    • Robert Smissen of country SA says:

      03:08pm | 25/05/12

      OK T T, please explain how getting a wrong doer to own up is bullying. I would have thought all the Labor logheads calling Mr. Abbott names was a strong form of bullying

    • ShamWow says:

      11:18am | 25/05/12

      You are out of your mind if you think that you will be able to stop bullying in schools.

    • Alex says:

      12:14pm | 25/05/12

      BS.  It is well known amongst parents at our school who the kids are who bully and which schools tend to attract the bullying types.  To a tee it is the parents of the kids who are at fault for not doing enough to teach their kids that it is wrong and that they should not do it.  It is part of learning.  It is people like you who produce the bullies because you think it is “natural” or something.  It’s not.  It is unacceptable behaviour and it is our job to teach kids not to do it.

    • fml says:

      12:14pm | 25/05/12

      Its more about comeuppance and the meek inheriting the earth!

    • adam says:

      12:39pm | 25/05/12

      fml, if Frank Zappa taught us nothing else, he did but just for the sake of argument, remember his immortal words

      The Meek Shall Inherit Nothing

    • fml says:

      12:46pm | 25/05/12

      Frank Zappa,

      Didn’t he eat yellow snow?

    • adam says:

      12:55pm | 25/05/12

      fml, on occasion I believe he did! He also liked Catholic Girls so he can’t be all bad

    • Kheiron says:

      01:16pm | 25/05/12

      @Alex, what a whine.

      People and other social animals establish a hierarchy, usually through force. Ignoring that doesn’t help when it comes to solving the issue and it’s that sort of thinking that’s probably the biggest hurdle.
      On too many issues people manage to isolate the most PC result as the target and the most PC idea to achieve it without giving any consideration to reality.

      Besides, I’ve seen a straight A student, daughter of the school vice principal, bully others. I’ve seen the son of a single mother do it. I’ve seen a bloke from a rich family do it and that kid was gay. A couple of brothers who had a father in prison and a mother on welfare did it too.
      A kid with ADD was a bully. I’ve even seen this weedy kid who was a popular target himself bully others smaller than him.

      I’ve also seen it in numerous forms in the workforce, especially amongst the women.

    • AFR says:

      01:42pm | 25/05/12

      Bulying will never be stopped (of course), but that doesn’t mean it should be condoned. I don’t buy this “hierarchy” bullshit…. at home I am firm with my dog to show him who is boss…. but he is a fricking dog! I would like to hope humans have evolved a bit further along.

      Bullying is NOT acceptable in a civilised society.

    • Admiral Ackbar says:

      04:04pm | 25/05/12

      This comment is the reason why I’ll be training my child to be highly proficient in nunchuck fights and dance-offs.

    • ShamWow says:

      04:17pm | 25/05/12

      You are never going to stop bullying no matter how much you preach. It is natural behaviour to establish a pecking order which in turns mean people put down others. The bullying doesn’t stop when you leave school and you spend your entire life being put in your place by those “above” you. Be realistic about it and teach kids how to have a thick skin, how to give it back or teach them how not to draw attention to one’s self.

    • Fred says:

      11:22am | 25/05/12

      In my experience yes. Once a bully always a bully. Funnily enough a few years ago I visited one of these clubs and two of the bullies from my school were working there.

      However in my opinion bullying is not always physical and sometimes non physical bullies (or connivers, liars etc) need to be dealt with physically.

    • Kika says:

      11:32am | 25/05/12

      Female bullies often use far more subtle but far more emotionally damaging ways to bully their peers

    • Emma says:

      11:50am | 25/05/12

      Kika

      I agree. I would rather get a punch than endure what girls do to eachother.

    • M says:

      12:09pm | 25/05/12

      Like trashing a co-worker because she got a job promotion, Kika?

    • Kika says:

      12:57pm | 25/05/12

      M - did you read my follow up response to that post?

      That’s not bullying. She does EXACTLY the same job as me. There is NO difference between her job and mine. No promotion - just the title and the pay. She just gets paid $15K-$20K more than I do for absolutely nothing. She was lucky. Wouldn’t you be pissed off?

    • Kika says:

      01:03pm | 25/05/12

      She even worked hard against me from the minute we started. She bullied me! Subtly. We started almost at the same time, but from the minute we started she was working against me to make sure she was seen to be the more senior person, even though I was previously working in a senior position. She managed to befriend the new team leader (former colleague) and because the said team leader IS a bleeding heart leftie felt sorry for her because she was a Mum all alone with a husband in the army, promoted her without advertising the promotion first and ever since she did absolutely not a razoo of work, never was here, took scores of unpaid leave just because she could and I’m left doing her work in the end anyway. Wouldn’t you be PISSED off?  Even my team leader agrees in hindsight she should have opened the promotion to everybody.

    • Emma says:

      01:33pm | 25/05/12

      Kika

      Not that I dont feel for you, but if the position had been advertised then maybe you would have the title now, the 20K more and wouldnt do any more work than her as the work stayed the same? That wouldnt be fair either.

    • AdamC says:

      01:40pm | 25/05/12

      M, good stuff!

      Kika, seems like someone has a guilty mind ...

    • Kika says:

      03:11pm | 25/05/12

      Guilty mind? Hardly. I don’t feel an inch of guilt for what I am doing. What I am doing isn’t just for me, but for my other colleague was equally rorted out of a promotion and is equally unable to be promoted because the former team leader stuffed it up. My team leader is a friend, and she admits that she could have done it a lot better.

      When I told her that the other chick lied about her qualifications she didn’t believe me. Then when the other chick BROUGHT IT UP HERSELF casually in conversation in front of all of us, you should have seen the look on both of their faces. Caught out!

      Emma - No. It’s not about ‘getting’ to do less work. It’s the fact that I DO THE SAME JOB AS SHE DOES. She just does less of it, but can sht talk her away into making out that she’s doing far more work. For example… she will nit pick over the most insane matters and spend half her day doing it while I can pump through work all day, so I end up copping her workload. We’ve only recently got some micro management going and her stats are showing that she’s not getting through the work. She goes away on leave coz she can’t handle it anymore.

      It’s BS.

    • Kika says:

      03:16pm | 25/05/12

      Can I also add… that my issue with it all isn’t the fact she was promoted, or that she is getting paid handsomely for doing the same work (for which I am now doing for no more pay than I already get) it’s the fact that upper management realised that they made a mistake, they should have done more checking before approving the team leader’s decision to promote her and because we know are saturated with senior positions in my team there will be no more promotions. Executive manager has even said there is no reason for there to be senior positions in our team, so it’s unlikely anyone will ever be promoted again.

      THATS why I am p&*ssed off.

      Wouldn’t you be? I mean she gets a lucky break, slacks off, goes away on unpaid leave, then again, and she hands you her work to you and your colleague also in the same boat and EQUALLY annoyed as you and says “good luck with it”. 

      Also, she has the nerve to winge that her bonus wasn’t huge and her pay rise wasn’t great… considering she’s earning $15K at least more than 2 other people in her team who do exactly the same job as she does. It’s BS!!!

    • fml says:

      11:22am | 25/05/12

      Apparently they can, all they have to do is say they have no recollection of the event, then they can run for U.S. President. #Mitt Romney.

    • Andrew says:

      11:40am | 25/05/12

      Or bettter still fml write a book were they admit bullying and they can not only run but actually become president @Barack Obama

    • fml says:

      12:10pm | 25/05/12

      I would rather a head of state who admits to their faults and moves on and makes amends rather than one who was born with an entitlement mentality and does not even remember bullying others as it weighs so lightly upon their conscience.

    • Tim says:

      01:23pm | 25/05/12

      fml,
      or the bullying never happened (or was insignificant) and certain individuals have barrows to push.
      Nah, that’s impossible in politics.

    • fml says:

      02:19pm | 25/05/12

      Tim,

      Some people are just cynical.

      I suppose the testimonies from witnesses from opposite sides of the political spectrum and even some of romney’s friends means jack all??

      Yep, never happened, just say you can’t remember!

    • AdamC says:

      02:49pm | 25/05/12

      This whole thing reminds me of the anti-John Kerry ‘Swift Boat Veterans for Truth’ campaign, only even more trivial and pointless. OMG! Shock! Presidential candidate only person ever to have done something foolish in high school!

      Hey, you can’t OD on self-indulgent moralism, can you?

    • fml says:

      03:23pm | 25/05/12

      AdamC,

      Neither can you on narcissism. Denying someones pain, or saying that you cannot remember causing pain is a construct used by sociopaths. Or worse to say that someone else’s pain isn’t that bad.

      But each to their own, either way we could do without a sociopathic president of the free world

    • Hamish says:

      04:05pm | 25/05/12

      Pretty long bow there I would have thought…so he’s gone from an ex-bully to a sociopath? And I’m assuming you were all sweetness and light in your younger days?

    • tuffy obrien says:

      11:23am | 25/05/12

      I gave ned wilson a wedgie the other day to get his lunch money. Is that wrong?

    • adam says:

      11:36am | 25/05/12

      I wondered why he looked upset as I was giving him a Chinese arm burn. Called him a cry baby and moved on

    • Conservative Conservationist says:

      11:26am | 25/05/12

      Heffernan and Abbott are still bullies.
      Some can grow out of it, others like these two never will.

    • sunny says:

      12:05pm | 25/05/12

      I don’t give a stuff if Abbott and co. act like bullies. Politics is tough and all politicians should learn to deal with it.

      The reason I don’t like Abbott is because his policies are just plain stupid.

    • GL says:

      01:07pm | 25/05/12

      If Abbott kept this issue up until after 1 July(so he did not stop the carbon price/tax form it to start), or Thompsom killed himself, let’s see if you can say it again.

    • Tbird says:

      02:10pm | 25/05/12

      GL any chance your posts might make some sense today?

    • Emma says:

      11:26am | 25/05/12

      I am more concerned with how they want to measure your behaviour. What gets reported by the students and recorded in your school file? You can be a serious bully and noone would ever say anything against you. In other cases some parent might have run straight to the principal because you had an argument with his/her little princess and you end up with a negative remark in your file.

      And they say if they do not offer you the job they will not tell you the reasons. But they should. They should give you the chance to argue your case and maybe set the record straight. This is not like a drug test thats either negative or positive.

    • Emilia says:

      11:53am | 25/05/12

      Agreed. There’s a difference between targeted bullying behaviour and arguments between children. But parents don’t always see it that way!

    • Kirsty says:

      12:28pm | 25/05/12

      This is true.  I got in trouble at school and written up for bullying because I asked some of my classmates whether they thought one of the mature age students was stoned in the previous class (he clearly was) but this apparently constituted bullying.  It’s not always a black and white issue so makes a definitive judgement difficult.

    • Markus says:

      01:25pm | 25/05/12

      @Emma, teachers too. I got accused of bullying several times, for refusing to be friends with the kids who spent their time trying to get other kids into trouble and crying to teachers whenever they got called out on it.

    • Fred says:

      02:08pm | 25/05/12

      I agree. At my school the principal fancied himself aligned with the more bullying types. Years later he ended up being sacked for some reason. Also one or two teachers decided they didn’t like me and would probably have liked to have blacklisted me.

    • SAm says:

      11:32am | 25/05/12

      Bad plan with good intentions. No-one bullys thinking it’ll affect them later in life. it wont stop bullying at all, in fact for the odd reformed bully, it will only make it painful for them. Everyone deserves a second chance, and yes I was bullied mercilessly. All of them (bar one who is behind bars) I could have a beer with today. I know some people get it worse than others, my point is that punishing someone as an adult for something they did as a child is wrong. On top of the fact a teacher could simply make something up because they didnt like the kid

    • Tim says:

      11:37am | 25/05/12

      Instead of not hiring them, they should be preferentially hired and earmarked for fast promotion.
      Bullies are management material.

    • Bill says:

      11:38am | 25/05/12

      Some bullies grow up and write for the Punch.

    • James1 says:

      11:41am | 25/05/12

      The worst one from my high school is now first assistant manager at a small town MacDonalds.  I reckon that is punishment enough.

    • AdamC says:

      01:05pm | 25/05/12

      James1, I am not sure that we really had classical ‘bullies’ at my school. People seem to talk about bullying in the most simplistic, moralistic fashion. At least in high school - in my experience - it was much more complicated than that. Like most people, I suspect, I ocasionally victimised other kids, and was also sometimes victimised myself. There were one or two gay cracks that I recall. (And this was back in the 1990s, before using the word ‘gay’ as a general perjorative became a capital offence. Hell, I even used it!) 

      I like to think the people who were nasty to me in high school regret it, just as I do. And I would like to think anyone I was mean to back then would also give me the benefit of the doubt. In fact, the only person who was habitually unpleasant towards me was far from your classic bully. (Unsurprisingly, in retrospect, he wound up being the other gay in the village.) Even then, I don’t hate him, but I don’t want to know him.

      In summary, I think we should all stop looking around for stereotypical, psychotic bullies and instead undertake a little self-reflection. We are all quite capable of treating each other badly. One of the aspects of growing up is learning that it is good to be good.

      BTW, thanks to everyone who didn’t mention Tony Abbott, Craig Thomson or Julia Gillard in their comments!

    • James1 says:

      01:45pm | 25/05/12

      Well said Adam.  That is why I say “the worst” in my post - most of us participate in activities that, at the very least, lead to the exclusion of others or result in people feeling bad about themselves.  When I was at school (also the 1990s) this wasn’t considered worth pursuing as bullying.  However, at my child’s school it is considered the most common form of bullying, and is always pursued.

      The MacDonald’s manager I mention was actually a classic bully.  He would punch people constantly, he was always lifting girls’ skirts and “dacking” the boys, and was generally a very unpleasant person.  The only bullying I was subject to was because of my ethnicity, oddly enough. 

      Where I went to school, calling each other gay was par for the course and we all did it to everyone all the time.  I don’t even want to imagine how that would be received now.

    • Shane says:

      11:42am | 25/05/12

      So Principals have to field constant phone calls from employers now for the thousands of children that pass through their schools each year? Who thinks of these stupid ideas?

      All the kid (now adult) has to say is “Oh there was another John Smith” at the school, a year above me and then it’s his word against the school who then has to be careful of slander.

      Bullying is evil, some victims never get over it but surely there are better options than this. We’re rapidly getting schools filled with teachers who can’t even teach the curriculum effectively and now we should throw this at Principals as well?

    • James Mathews says:

      11:43am | 25/05/12

      Well yes they can; but it is a case of want to grow out it though. Id say that the best way to grow out it is to have education about what happens in later life. However there are things that can be done to ensure that you don’t get bullied at all though and is make friends and hang around them as that will leave you less open and exposed to the treat.

    • Kika says:

      11:45am | 25/05/12

      I don’t know if it would work in practice, but it would be a pretty good preventative measure taken against kids at school thinking that future employers might do background checks.

      I was bullied in primary school and grade 8. Was usually from the same girl in primary school. She loved to make me feel worthless and not as good as her. Have no idea why she decided to pick on me. Always picked on my clothes. Yes they weren’t new like hers. Yes I used to wear my Nana’s old jumper because it was warm and I missed her (she had passed away). Yes you have ALL the boys liking you, and you have an older sister so you are more worldy and wiser than me.  Then other girls started - not only because of her. But one girl in particular never really liked me for some reason and used to call me simple… had no idea what that even meant.

      Grade 8 - that’s when the bullying really started. I pssed off the wrong girl who threatened to beat me up everyday. My parents sent me to the wrong school because they ‘forgot’ to get my application in at the GPS school I was always told I would be going to forever. So at the last minute mum enrolled me in the local public school. The school they always made fun of. What a mistake. This girl was nasty. Dad in jail, Mum not working. Told me that I was ugly. Everyone was scared of her so they all turned against me so I only had 1 friend in the world. We left that school that year, went to another and that was the best thing for both of us.

      But I can’t say I’m perfect. You know how they say the bully is usually bullied? Whilst I was being bullied I turned on the class nerds, even one who was my friend since pre-school. Our mums were friends so we sometimes were baby sat by his mother. I really feel so bad for being so mean. I wish I could take it back or say sorry about it. But he was a boy and we weren’t very close so I took it out on him to make myself feel better. He’s now a successful engineer and doing really well for himself. I can’t say though that I systematically bullied him - it was just a smart a8ss comment here and there, but I could see the hurt on his face when I would say it… probably thinking of the days we were sitting playing Prince of Persia on his computer laughing because my sister & I sucked so bad.

      But I DO feel glad that my bully is now a single mum and living the life her parents did. Last time I saw her she was screaming at her baby on the bus. It’s awful to admit that… but a little part of me was glad to see that.

    • Sad Sad Reality says:

      12:51pm | 25/05/12

      “But I DO feel glad that my bully is now a single mum and living the life her parents did. Last time I saw her she was screaming at her baby on the bus. It’s awful to admit that… but a little part of me was glad to see that.”

      I hope the boy you bullied feels the same about you.

    • Scotchfinger says:

      02:11pm | 25/05/12

      I’m sure Mr Wuss has moved on. I was a smart-ass myself, until everyone else at high school grew taller than me and one of my ‘victims’ decided to fight back. I had to practically climb up his leg to hit him. Moral of the story: don’t write cheques you can’t cash. Although now of course I am six foot, so ha ha you bastards, EAT ME *goes into a foetal position*

    • Kika says:

      03:18pm | 25/05/12

      I’m doing quite fine, Sad Sad Reality. But I know what you mean. I deserved it. But when you are 13 I’m sure you weren’t a perfect person either.

    • Brian Taylor says:

      03:37pm | 25/05/12

      @ Scotchfinger loved your post good one

    • Emilia says:

      11:50am | 25/05/12

      I was bullied in early high school. Quite a few of my friends were, too. We went to a girl’s only school - go figure! I know for a fact those immature Year 8 girls who targeted us have changed a lot. Many have shown remorse. Some are just sickly do gooder suck-ups! A few may still be bad eggs for all I know, but overall I just don’t think it’s appropriate to hold a grudge. (My Mum does, though!)

      Reality is that people change a lot from when they’re 12 years old and unaware of their actions on others and the world. Bullies shouldn’t be blanket punished for that: the same way you can’t be held totally unaccountable for a lot of things you do as a minor. I do like that these NSWClubs measures give room for “remorse” to be shown, but I do also think that applicants should only be denied jobs in the very extreme bullying cases.

      Regardless of whether it’ll actually achieve anything, I do like that there’s focus on this from NSWClubs. There’s very much a defeatist “kids will be kids” attitude when it comes to bullying in High Schools. I don’t think that’s good enough. We need to lead as examples as adults and as a society. When I have children of my own, I plan to drill it into them that it’s of utmost importance to treat everybody in this world with dignity. I thank my bullies for that lesson!

    • Sally says:

      11:53am | 25/05/12

      I think it depends on the reason behind the bullying - did the bully just not know any better, (due to hostile environment at home for example, which makes bullying “normal” behaviour) or was the bully a bully purely because they enjoyed tormenting other kids? I was teased terribly at both primary and high school and have no desire to met up with my past tormentors to see if they actually turned into nice people - I really don’t care. But things people do as children does not mean that they will grow up and continue the same negative behaviour. I did some pretty crummy things as a teenager and dread it when the family stories start because I do not identify with the person I was then - I was foolish and impulsive and would hate to know that my job prospects are limited because of that.

    • fml says:

      11:59am | 25/05/12

      Being a bully might even get a person a job.

      Depends on the boss.

    • Dan says:

      04:47pm | 25/05/12

      Bullys are the boss usually.

    • Jeremy says:

      11:59am | 25/05/12

      I worry much more about people who leave school and grow up to become bullies. Whether they’re husbands and wives, bosses, teachers, the worst bullies around are ‘mature’ adults. Most school bullying is petty, only rarely does it become something more. Adults bullying each other is far more calculated and repressive.

    • DY says:

      12:00pm | 25/05/12

      Ok if you don’t give these bullies a job they can’t earn money so they end up on the dole for the rest of their lives or even worse career criminals. So they might end up robbing clubs, homes or even you.

    • DY says:

      12:00pm | 25/05/12

      Ok if you don’t give these bullies a job they can’t earn money so they end up on the dole for the rest of their lives or even worse career criminals. So they might end up robbing clubs, homes or even you.

    • fml says:

      12:28pm | 25/05/12

      Or the bullies could just change their ways and become a decent person?

      Or is that too difficult?

    • Your name:petery says:

      04:18pm | 25/05/12

      OHPlease,as I understand it we are not talking about them never getting a job. it is some local clubs in small country towns that will not employ them on their staff. that is all that is happening at the moment.
        There will plenty of jobs that they will get that dont care whether they are bullies or not. Macdonalds seems to take everybody or anybody.I suspect if you move out of your area no one is going to care.
        These are not the sort of jobs that mostkeep for life anyway. you have real problems if you see lifelong career in bar work or bouncer at your local club forever.

    • Joan says:

      12:00pm | 25/05/12

      Some people just are bullies by nature and always will be bullies - the guy/gal who at school is the the leader of the bully pack is probably not changeable-  his followers and fellow taunters are probably changeable.- they are just part of pack, peer pressure, scared they will be targets if they don’t -t and when separated from pack, this type of bully probably too scared to say boo to anyone. Best any parent can do for their child is teach them to be assertive,  build their confidence in who they are, to counter bullies. Bullies tend to pick on the weak and those who are different or bully scorned. . It happens in work place.- good riddance when they leave.  Bullies will always get a job- they are so full of confidence about themselves, bold,  project image of can do , even when they can’t and many employers fall for it.

    • craig2 says:

      12:16pm | 25/05/12

      You won’t get away with it today but I was challenged by a bully in the school yard at lunch 25 yrs ago and I agreed and proceeded to kick the shit out of him. He never bothered another person again after that….ahhh memories….any limp wrists lefties feel outraged by that, don’t reply as bullies need to be on their place and I’m not interested in discussion. Have a nice day.

    • MarkS says:

      12:42pm | 25/05/12

      Yea

      I was a nerd, always reading, not interested in sport etc. One day a bully & his mates noticed me & decided to make me their target for the day. I screamed & leapt trying to bite his throat out. A teacher had to pull me off him.

      Nobody bothered me after that. Nowadays I would have been in serious trouble. I think one or two of the teachers realised the cold calculation behind what I did, but the kids just thought I was crazy when angry.

    • Scotchfinger says:

      12:55pm | 25/05/12

      ha ha MarkS, was it ‘Tom Brown’s School Days’ you were reading? Flashman would have been a good role model for a bookish fellow.

    • wolf says:

      02:42pm | 25/05/12

      craig2 - arent you the ‘big man’ who claims to have got together with his mates, stuffed his neighbour into a wheelie bin and taken him on a tour of the suburbs behind a car, leading him to leave the suburb?
      Yeah, you really stand up for the ‘little guy’. Dickhead.

    • craig2 says:

      03:01pm | 25/05/12

      MarkS: haha hilarious!

    • SydneyGirl says:

      03:23pm | 25/05/12

      When I was a slip of a girl, a petite sort, I used to beat up schoolyard boy bullies who used to burst into tears, run home and complain to their mothers who complained to my mother that she had no idea how to bring up a girl.  My mom was the kind who never interfered in schoolyard battles so war raged unabated. Good days. Naturally I grew up to be a brawling leftie, ha ha we are the best kind!

      Scotchfinger you must guess - I love Flashman.

    • craig2 says:

      03:58pm | 25/05/12

      Wolf: Grow up. You sound like the pisshead at the bar who has a opinion on everything yet has little life experience to back it up. You still must be sore from the SOO on Wed night I gather, so if you want to get personal and start slanging abuse in your post, I suggest you man up and realise that life is not a bed of roses for some people and bullies are just like that idiot who felt it was ok to tie fire crackers to a cats tail and set them off and rock peoples roofs, breaking the tiles or leaving your pile of junk on my front lawn and being a complete ass***e about it. “Holier than thou” attitude Wolf, put a sock in it, your s**t smells as bad the rest of us.

    • Scotchfinger says:

      03:59pm | 25/05/12

      SydneyGirl: definitely picking up a ‘type’ you like. Interesting if there is a man who actually conforms with your literary characterisations…

    • craig2 says:

      04:28pm | 25/05/12

      Wolf: I feel sorry for you. You sound like the pisshead at the bar who has an opinion on everything but no life experience to back it up. Cut the abuse Wolf, your shit smells as bad as the rest of us. Oh, by the way, QLD 18 NSW 10 so stop being such a sore loser.

    • SydneyGirl says:

      05:15pm | 25/05/12

      Scotchfinger, no way must you ever look for literary characterisations in real men! They are best left fictional.

    • Farken says:

      12:27pm | 25/05/12

      “can school bullies grow out of it?” well can you Tory Maguire ?

    • Brian Taylor says:

      12:43pm | 25/05/12

      formany years I had to wear leg irons to try to straighten my feet and legs.
      Of course I was picked on nearly the whole time.
      I was powerless to do bugger all then, however I had the leg irons removed and came over to Aust from NZ and was in 3rd form in Gouldburn High School.
      Because I was skinny due to my illness as a child, the bullying continued.
      I recieved and was given permission from the Head master to lift weights during my lunch hour (not only did it help build my chest and arms, it kept me away from the bullies.)
      One day I was in the school yard and one of the real big kids who used to take great delight in picking on smaller, weaker kids spotted me and started pushing me around.
      I’d never had a fight in my entire life till that fateful day.
      A huge crowd had gathered to watch this bully pick on me.
      Suddenly something seemed to snap inside my brain and I went apeshit on him.
      They had to drag me off him.
      He lay on the ground crying like a little girl.
      He’d not managed to land a snigle blow on me.
      From that day on, no one picked on me and I also noted that quite a few of the school bullies stopped picking on other kids.
      How you can completely stop bulling, I really have no idea, but I can and do relate to any kid suddenly snapping at school.
      Maybe they need CTV in the school yards to stop it, who knows.

    • Matt says:

      12:51pm | 25/05/12

      The whole concept has no merit as an actual method of stopping bullies at all. Does anyone seriously believe child bullies consider the future consequences of their actions?

      It comes across as a petty act of vengeance. It may be good for the soul but doesn’t fix the problem.

      Further, it will cause employers and schools more dramas than it is likely to solve. Managing and maintaining a “bullying register” sounds simple in practice but wait until the injustices created by incorrect and incomplete records add up.

      Good intention, poor policy.

    • Over here says:

      12:58pm | 25/05/12

      Our school (catholic college in the 60’s) had a prefect regime, the prefects selected from the senior year. In my time from grade six to matriculation there was only one serious bully at large (for a short time). Eventually after several warnings the prefects invited him to an interview behind the sports pavillion. Nary a comment was heard from the Christian Brothers or parents about his broken arm, life was good after that…..good equitable times back then…......

    • Al says:

      12:59pm | 25/05/12

      They can ‘grow out of it’ (although better wording would be ‘choose to change’).
      Of course there is a simpler solution I had when I was in school and someone tried to bully me. Thanks to training in martial arts you smack them down or even utilise stuff laying around to smack them down.
      It seems to be the only mathod they understand at that stage.

    • BVMKingmaker says:

      01:13pm | 25/05/12

      Dumbest Idea I have heard in a long time. You talk about Labor putting people out of work? There are so many things wrong with this Let me name just a few and just to save time Im writing it as he though I know women can be bullies too

      1) Apparently the bully wont be told why he doesnt get the job so he cannot defend the accusations.

      2) There is no natural justice in having to defend yourself years after the fact when it is one word against the other.

      3) There is no mention of how long ago ths bullying will be scouted for and can this be used as a fishing expidition to discriminate against someone?

      4) What defines bullying?

      5) What about a teacher holding a grudge? Vexacious student getting even. Call me a name Ill call you a bully and ruin your life,

      6) How are we going to afford the dole when so many more people will be out of work? Remember Macca from a while ago should he be out of a job for being such a bully?

      How terrible would it have been if in Grade 5 little Johnny Howard dipped little Lucys head in an inkwell and was branded a bully for life? Where would be be now

      I would hate for a man like Charlie Teo to be banned from practicing medicine because someone thought he was mean at 15.

    • JB says:

      01:51pm | 25/05/12

      @BVMKingmaker, No the bully won’t be told he didn’t get it because of his past because then he/she will run to a lawyer claiming discrimination. Bullies will have a place, it’s called the armed forced where this aggression can be channeled in a positive way perhaps.
      Are there problems yes, but bullies and their parents who think that their little cherub can do no wrong need to be held to account for their actions. How many bullies get away with it and then become bullies in the workplace, worked for them at school!

    • fml says:

      01:59pm | 25/05/12

      firstly, the easy answer to all is don’t bully people. In saying that, yes people do make mistakes. If people were on this register i would imagine people could check this, Also it would be updatable and if the bully makes amends then they could probably have their name removed.

      Also, it would logically take more than someone with a grudge to put you on the register, you would have to be recognised as being disciplined by a school board or something similar, schools have reputations to protect I doubt they would want to be known as a school which breads bullies, so they would probably only register someone after careful consideration and also they probably would try to make the children resolve their differences.

      I reckon if the bully is still unremorseful for their actions, then by all means put them on the register.

    • Rossco says:

      01:30pm | 25/05/12

      Wow, this is such a terrible idea.

      Firstly, the school has no right to release the private information of any of its students - this raises so many privacy and ethical questions. Is it going to be just bullying the school will report on, or in future will it also go into grades, teachers reports, medical reports etc? Where does it stop? Employers have no right to access that information.

      Secondly, are you really going to damn a so called “bully” to unemployment because of the actions committed years prior when immaturity and hormones were at their worst in the midst of peer pressure in the typical school culture? A lot of kids can’t project the future, have mental issues, or have low to medium aspirations in the first place. This will do NOTHING to prevent their potential “bullying” of another student. A lot of people who I knew were jackasses in high school, who occasionally dabbled in bullying or harassment but weren’t outright bullying in the Nelson from Simpsons sense - actually grew up to be decent hard working people - are we going to damn their futures for mistakes made in the past?

      Thirdly, what do they define “bullying” as? The whole thing is subjective. Are they going to go by physical bullying with physical assaults or are they also going by emotional bullying and teasing or a combination of both? If a student is in a fight with another kid, will this be classed as bullying? How are they going to train teachers to assess and categorise this? What if the teacher hasnt been trained properly or the records havnt been maintained properly? Will there be an assessment process and appeals process to it? When I was at school bullying or harassment wasn’t straight up black and white, and this certainly won’t be.

      Fourthly, the legal ramifications of this are also just waiting for a potential law suit against a school or employer to happen because somebody made the wrong call, released the wrong files, etc.

      In all this is a TERRIBLE iniative that doesn’t actually address problem of bullying or harassment at school.

    • A Spade's a Spade says:

      06:11pm | 25/05/12

      You are right. Minors are imputed by law an inability to form the requisite ” men’s rea” to commit a criminal offence, surely this prohibition ought to be extended to bullying when a child. To hold a child guilty of an offense that will follow them as an adult is reprehensible and unjust. 20 year olds who bully and ought to know better are a different commodity.

      I was bullied as a youth and I dealt with it with words; I made others laugh at the bully. It was worked really well and most bullies Ended up befriending me to be spared my wit - in fact it is a tactic I use still. Each to their own.

    • Gregg says:

      01:47pm | 25/05/12

      Sticking to the questions
      ” So today’s question - once a bully always a bully? How long should you pay for your teenage bad deeds? “
      The answers really can not be so specific for people develop in different ways, reaching various levels of maturity.
      Defining bullying is also another aspect and it can take many forms and extent, some mental, some physical.
      Some people in management could be seen by some as very positive and demanding whilst aspects of that approach may border on bullying whereas such a manager might take the view he would be motivating people to get the best out of them.
      I was associated with one relatively senior manager in a large organisation, the type of organisation where managers would grovel to develop and have approved as much of a capital budget as they could, whether justifications were sound or not.
      Said senior manager visited one time to get a particular overview of a project   for which a justification had a few anomalies and in the course of discussion, I raised that situation and his answer was along the lines of ” you’ll be able to make the figures look right ” , a form of bullying to wrongfully spend what were really public monies.

      I was told a bit later by another acquaintance who had known of this manager for many years, also in a social/sporting scene that ” you should have seen his tactics when his side was fielding, he’d go up to an incoming batsmen to say hellow Joe as he’d deliver a sharp jab to the forearm in supposedly a friendly guesture “

      He was not the only person with such an attitude and in fact the organisation had some people saying you needed to find people like that to attach yourself to, use them as mentors!
      They probably seeing themselves as driven more so than being a bully.
      There might even be people who were not so driven in their youth but who became so by attaching themselves to a rising star.

      I know of a person who has been a political media advisor, even writing speeches for a one time federal party leader and also having held reasonably prominent positions in the media and yet he also posts frequently on forums.
      One such post included a post to another person of ” Why do you not crawl away and die ” and there were many more of a sniping, derogatory and undermining nature.
      He may not have been a bully in his youth and perhaps it has been something in his career path that has put a sour taste in his mouth and become very bitter towards other people but you would expect he could behave far better.

      As to how long a teenager should pay, the whole concept has a vagueness to it for with many teenagers, some bullying may come about through being part of a gang, being in the with it crowd etc. and hopefully it’ll be a passing phase for most.
      For the more prominent gang leaders or for those that it is not such a passing phase, hopefully teachers will have picked up trends and attempt to do something about attitudes at school but there is a lot of time out of school too.
      If it is serious enough, something should be written in a students reports so at least parents might attempt to do more if they are inclined and it could be more how a student has been raised and so should they suffer because of their parents?
      They may go on to mature and realise that there are better ways to life.

    • Erin from B'dale says:

      02:17pm | 25/05/12

      CCTV in schoolyards is a very good but very expensive idea. It might pick up Verbal and Psychological abuse as well as Physical - overweight/disabled kids in tears with bullies laughing, a group of Anglo Aussie kids playing footy pointedly ignoring an Asian kid etc. The problem is the cost - public (secular) schools struggle financially as it is. The idea of employers rejecting school bullies also has major problems - 1) young people should not endure unemployment, poverty and punishment for crimes committed when they were insensitive ignorant little brats. Bullying is a crime, but many young criminals have their juvenile records expunged at 18 - they get a 2nd chance, 2) it is too easy to abuse this - innocent young people may be falsely accused by an enemy, and 3) prospective worker’s qualifications and job ability is all that should matter to employers. They have no right to judge by appearance, childhood behavior esp. 15 years ago, or unproved and unprovable allegations. Some bullies do grow up. I was ostracised and ridiculed at school for my disability, but years later I met a schoolmate on the bus who had the decency to apologise for being such a bitch to me at school. She obviously learned sensitivity with maturity. Of course I forgave her - we are adults now.

      Erin from B’dale

    • Scotchfinger says:

      02:56pm | 25/05/12

      didn’t you at least pull her hair? I bet you wanted to. YANK! clumps of hair with skin still attached at the ends. A load off your mind.

    • drink at home says:

      02:27pm | 25/05/12

      It is too late for chasing bullies, there is a whole moralistic generation of bullys’......YES GEN X,,,, who think it ok to bully..criticise, talk down and complain about others ..just look in the what were formerley hotels, now called bar/bistros….see what THE DISEASED SYNDROME OF hospitality has done and what it did to its older boomer generation.HAVE A LOOK IN BRISBANE AT EVERY” PUB “DARE I say it ,is a doorman/thug after 6.30pm
      too late I’m sorry to change the culture that gen x introduced and accepted here in australia….......
      Is that that not a form of bullying by the prescence of their placement..dont bother replying about it inacademic terms

    • fml says:

      02:39pm | 25/05/12

      “dont bother replying about it inacademic terms “

      Ok, I know you are, you said you are, but what am I?

    • Elphaba says:

      02:52pm | 25/05/12

      I think this measure a bit harsh.  Some kids can be absolute shits, but it’s a bit judgmental to assume they’ll be shits for the rest of their lives.

      I was bullied mercilessly at school, but I wouldn’t assume those people couldn’t be productive members of society.  Kids bully because they’re ignorant or jealous.  Most of that gives way once they become adults.

      I think not giving them a chance is going to be far more detrimental.  Unless they’re involved in serious behaviour like violence, arson, etc, I think this is going a bit far.

    • Zaf says:

      04:29pm | 25/05/12

      [How long should you pay for your teenage bad deeds? ]

      How long do the victims pay for them?

    • petery says:

      04:32pm | 25/05/12

      Do people hear really understand the proposal?  It is not about life long bans from work or never giving bullies a chance. it is some local clubs who are going to give job preference to people other than alleged bullies.I can foresee in some country towns, the only choice clubs might have will be to choose one bully over another,or the lesser of two bullies.
      people should not be getting hysterical over things they dont understand.
      I think government intends this anti bullying thing to be optional not mandatory, and that means there will be plenty of places across the country that will hire bullies,wimps,geeks,freaks and the rest just as they do now.

    • Dave C says:

      07:18pm | 25/05/12

      This is a wonderful policy by clubs Australia. Bullies are scum fullstop the end. These animals essentially F*#K up the entire lives of innocent people by their actions and they should be held accountable for their actions.

      Many on this forum have said that bullying is a natural part of sorting the social order from the Alphas to Omegas, well the first act of bullying is and if the Omegas get it and keep out then thats fine. But when the Omegas (and those slightly above) know their place already and dont want trouble and then the Alphas and Betas then CONTINUE to Physically and Verbally bully/harass or ABUSE those below for LONG PERIODS OF TIME for no other reason that they can get away with it because they are stronger or higher up the social food chain, .............. is that justified????????

      I seriously hope the people who bullied me when I was younger (and all other bullies who did it because they could) die slowly screaming out in pain for hours in a car crash or they die of AIDS or they die of inoperable colon cancer where they have to shit into a bag and then die in excruciating pain over a period of years. Then and only then will there be justice in the world.

    • Empowered says:

      10:51pm | 25/05/12

      Did I miss something here? what about parenting responsibilities and getting the prents some high quality ‘’ toe up the arse ‘’ fine tuning, and some attitude adjustment for Master or Missey.
      While we’re at it, some self defence training (physical and mental} for the nerdy, fat, gay, skinny, short, tall, dark, freckled, four eyed, unpopular, mummys’ baby, different and vunerable children and adults of this world might go a long way to empowering the individual to stand and fight maybe lose, but own their pride and dignity, it worked for me.

    • Bitten says:

      09:21am | 28/05/12

      The thing is, some of the nicest adults you’ll meet will admit after a few wines to having indulged in some pretty nasty bullying at school. One woman I know, who is a selfless, generous, intelligent adult, didn’t attend her first school reunion because she was worried about what reception she would get from some of the people she socially tormented at school.

      I love stuff like this - I did a bad bad thing when other people were doing nice normal things like completing assignments, taking music lessons and doing sport, I was a social deadsh*t who though it was all good and cool to be a bitch to people, but look, I’m all nice now, that fixes it doesn’t it?

      Your ‘friend’ might want to think she’s all better now and gets a free pass, but she doesn’t. The people she bullied know what she was and what she is. Bitch then, coward now.

 

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