Feminists should back off the burqa bashing

Gabby says:

08:22am | 12/05/12

Western people seriously need to back off. These Orientalist views we carry about Muslim people are insulting to their culture. Those who have actually studied Muslim culture realise that it is a choice for most to follow and respect their religion. That is what they believe. Western people need to just respect that, especially when travelling to Muslim countries. We expect them to respect our country when they travel or live here, and we should give them the same respect when we travel there. Its a completely different culture to what is present in Western society and because of this Muslims are stereotyped and degraded in our society. This all stems back to the Orientalist view that the west is more superior than the East. Well guess what it’s not. People in the world should be equal wherever you go, not stereotyped and put down by other races. Muslim women have every right to embrace and respect their culture and if that means wearing a hijab then people just need to accept that. I’m an 18 year old University student and I find it quite sad how narrow minded and insulting some people can be towards the Muslim race.

bloke says:

12:10am | 18/10/11

I agree with Utopia Boy.

Utopia Boy says:

08:59pm | 15/10/11

Well, if you walked down the street in Australia wearing a mini skirt and were called a slut, that wouldn’t be so bad now, would it? Compare the same situation if you wore a mini skirt down the street in say, gee, I don’t know - Saudi Arabia…
You would be:
Accosted by the moral police,
Beaten,
Sent to jail immediately,
and either hung or sentenced to prolonged custody.
Imagine that? Imagine if you wanted to defend yourself in court. Imagine you wanted to bring a charge against one of the moral police who beat you, but you only had three female witnesses. Alas, your word as female in islam is only worth one quarter of that of a man, so you need four female witnesses. Such a shame you SLUT!
Guilty.
Please, can we dispense with the “choices” debate regarding islam? There is no free will in islam at all. The goddam word “islam” means “submit.” Everything is already decided by fate.
It’s a joke of a religion and must be wiped out.

peter says:

01:44am | 20/08/11

Please tell me if I am wrong and too left field for the debate, but I have lived and worked in a number of Islamic (majority) countries.  Though I am not a medical doctor my work brings me often into contact with people working in medicine in these countries.  What I can say that whilst in Pakistan, Morocco, and East Turkestan (the Chinese Communist Emporers like to call it XinJiang); Both male and female doctors have alerted me to the following:

The dangers to women wearing some fuller versions of the burqua and the visual impairment it can and often does create for clear vision and resulting safety issues. 

which according to more than one doctor working in each of the above countries is based very unfortunately on overwhelming evidence of harm, i.e.  falls and collisons and in some cases eventual chronic eye harm though they said the later was a lot less clear due to the issues of poverty and poorer eye nutrition.  I do not care what women of any faith chose to wear, but unless you are masochist surely it pays to be able recognise a danger or hazard as clearly as possible in as wide field of vision as possible.  and I have seen more than one or two more extreme versions of the burqua outside Australia that create this impaired visual field issue particularly the ones that tend to hide the eyes behind guaze.  You may laugh and scorn my comments but If you do, then I am dam sure you have not seen some of the burquas that fall into this category.  I hope they are not here yet?
and this is not just an issue of safety of the burqua wearer. 

Atleast the urban street scape is more pedestrian friendly here in general with less lumps and bumps (and not slippery in winter time with snow and ice).  There are times in winter in towns of East Turkestan, like Kashgar, I could of had a full time job picking up older women that had slipped and tripped (but I learnt to fight this impulse that was ground into me deeply, due to fear of being strung up and only helped pick up older men whom fell, although it appeared far less commonly.

I must admitt though I live in a small coastal town now and know little of the in fashion burquas in Australia, do they have those vision problem ones here yet?  with mesh etc over the eyes?

Safa Rahimi says:

03:23pm | 23/03/11

Another year, and the debate persists. This is quire disheartening.

It’s quite reassuring to know that the majority of Australians who want to “Ban” the Burqa do so because they have no informed understanding of what it actually is, how many Muslim women wear it and what it signifies.  Muslims represent 1.7% of the population in Australia.  Within this 1.7% are Muslim women, only a fraction of which wear head scarves, and the higab and niqab as opposed to the Burqa, which is worn by a minute fraction of the 1.7% of the 22 million people in Australia. Those Australians, hopefully in the majority, who are aware of these statistics are open-minded enough to understand the significance of choice in the decisions of Muslim women who wear head scarves. 

Or, I could be wrong completely and the move to Ban Burqas represents the dissolution of free choice, which has evidently become the new Aussie mantra, along with Xenophobia, Bigotry and Sexism.

It's great to be a woman says:

10:30am | 30/09/10

I"ve read your article Sara but still don’t understand why burqas are worn.  What is it about the female form that is so offensive or sacred to Muslims that it must be kept hidden?  I admit that despite a strong belief that women should be able to wear what ever they like, I still feel affronted everytime I see a woman in a full length burqa, as I would if I saw someone walking down the street in KKK robes.  However I also wonder how those who want them banned plan to enforce this.  Will police have the power to stop women in burqas and force them to remove the offending article of clothing?  Or will women who refuse to remove their burqas be forbidden to enter public places or be fined or even jailed?

Angela says:

10:30am | 05/08/10

Rubbish okay wearing it by Choice, dont think so try walking into the countries they come from without you whole body covered and then tell me religious freedom we do not need it in Australia end of story, its the minority that thinks they can win, I say no. My parents did not come all the way from Greece to have me and my brothers and sisters to see this they could of stopped of in Egypt for that thanks. Racist huh well guess what half of you have no clue what these type of fundamentalists are like. Freedom does not give you the right to say hell yes I will do whatever I like and you guys can jump, either join the community or get out there is no in between.

Whole communities in England due to these supposed peace loving people and no police may enter is these areas is this what you guys truly want here, enclaves of them against us because I can tell you that is what will eventually happen. They do no integrate with society there mandate is one CONVERT THE INFIDEL ask them I dare you. Wake up everyone before we are the minority in our own country the beauty of here is this we come for all over and lives our lives in peace. They would not know peace if it bit them in the backside their supposed Religion and the next idiot that calls it the religion of Light will cop a slap in the face is riddled with conversion of other people and slayings. I thought the bible was bad until I read that. Since when does speaking the truth in this country label you a racists that’s a bit rich lol.

anne says:

11:44pm | 14/07/10

If it wasnt for governments acting on the wishes of its people, how would modern day chinese women walk the streets in those tiny shoes with their feet still bound?  because something is practised now for whatever reason doesnt make it right or what is best for the future of a countries people. apart from the way we personally feel about this form of garment other things need to be considered.what of the safety of the people in this country from any criminal who wears this garment?how will they be identified in a lineup. how will their picture be displayed on tv warning against this criminal as they are a dangerous threat?? no one should be allowed to disguise their true identity! that is the reason we dont allow bike helmets into banks, why we have our faces on driving licenses. crimes are being committed.who is to say these people wont or havent committed a crime & they will never be caught! what evidence can be presented to prosecute them. we have come a long way to elevate human beings from persecution & discrimination. once this is stopped the children of these people & next generations will thank us. we welcome other cultures to our country & hope they will contribute to it not continue their customs that are not wanted to influence the people who are already here.there is going to be a need for a whole different set of legal policy with this garment. the people who want to wear it can freely do so somewhere it is welcome. we must have the courage to follow our beliefs & say no to the ones tha serve no purpose but to degrade our society & legal system. thank you

Peter Faulkes says:

10:02am | 14/07/10

Westerners cannot do as they like in Moslem countries.  Girls could never wear mini skirts and revealing blouses in say Pakistan.  Celebration at a Christmas Party in a Gulf Moslem country has led to imprisonment with the possibility of the death penalty.  Moslem men sometimes have Christian servants - rape them and then accuse them so that the girls are imprisoned.  Would we do all this in Australia?  Decidedly not.  We have our own background of religion and Australian culture.  Those who migrate here should fit in or return to their own country.  This they would not do for two reasons.  It is better living here with all of the Centre Link benefits,and educational that they receive and also there is in the Koran and in the Islamic leaders, a desire to enforce Sharia Law.  The best way to do this is to infiltrate with much migration and natural increase.  All Aussies should consider this.

Pavlo says:

12:29pm | 08/07/10

Muslim feminist?

Reminds me of a skit with a certain black comedian where, while playing the character of a blind African-American man hanging out with Ku Klux Klan members, he would periodically proclaim, fist raised, “White Power!”

Pavlo says:

11:19am | 08/07/10

Muslim women not coerced into wearing the burqa?

Come on, get real please Sara.

In Australia we like to tell it like it is. You cannot sit there and imply that if muslim women in Australia (or anywhere) decided en masse to never again wear the burqa, muslim men would not object?

I think there’s a lot of issues around the burqa, many of them have been mentioned already. However, one thing I noticed the other day was a muslim woman backing her vehicle out of a driveway (with a car load of children) onto a main road, busy with rush hour traffic while wearing a burqa. Surely wearing such a garment must restrict one’s peripheral vision and therefore become a danger to herself and others?

Another thing. Why in God’s name should it be ok for muslim women to wear a burqa if it is not ok for me to walk down the street while wearing a balaclava? Or enter a bank while wearing a helmet?

Would you agree that if I chose to wear a balaclava - which is functionally similar to a burqa in that it hides my face and therefore conceals my identity - that I would not only inspire great fear in people but I would probably be arrested or at least hounded by the public within minutes?

My view as an Australian citizen: I think burqas are culturally inappropriate for Australian society. Muslims should adjust to the Australian way of life, not the other way around. I believe that should be a condition of attaining citizenship.

Australia, let’s not be timid and intellectually weak on this issue.
Ban the face covering burqa - at least in public and especially while driving a motor vehicle.

Jay says:

02:29pm | 30/06/10

Muslim feminist? Please do not kid yourself. How many female mufti’s are there in the Islamic world? Why are women not allowed to drive in Saudi Arabia or be seen in the Company of a male who is not a relative or your husband? This burqua issue is just another example of how radicals within Islam are trying to coerce women into believing that they are being free to choose when they are simply reinforcing the repressive laws that govern Islam. You believe you are progressive because you have the freedom to express an opinion in Australia.Try that in Iran or Saudi Arabia. Islam is a backward religion, headed by some hate filled men who are threatened by women and refuse to accept that religion has moved on from the 6th Century.

JaneAgatha says:

09:29am | 29/06/10

OK, yes. I get the point. Sara is entitled to her opinion and all Muslim women are entitled to choose whether or not to wear the burqua without this being legislated. I am entitled to my opinion too. I find the custom of wearing the burqua not only ridiculous, archaic and a denial of human rights, I also find it deeply affronting that certain people choose to hide their faces from me and others when they go out in public. My opinion is that to hide one’s face in this way is morally wrong, but then that is only my opinion. I don’t know how many other Australians share my view however I do feel that in a democracy - and in Australia this is a democracy that accommodates diverse cultures - majority opinion must still count for something.

alia says:

08:19pm | 12/06/10

i think it shouldn’t be banned!!!!

Craig C says:

08:02pm | 31/05/10

Well,
There is a number of issues here.
1.  Identity, all must be easily identified for any number of reasons, security, banking and complying if the laws of the country.
2.    Cultural, If you willing join a group or a country you must make effort to fit in. If not go somewhere else where you are more comfortable. And we all will be happier.
3.  Religion, its your choice but don’t force it on other people. All religions have frantics so go hang out with them leave the rest of us alone.
4.  Dress, who cares but you must be identifiable and be comfortable with the clothes you wear.

Kafir says:

09:11am | 31/05/10

Women Al-Jazeera journalists quit in dress code row:
http://www.news.com.au/world/women-al-jazeera-journalists-quit-in-dress-code-row/story-e6frfkyi-1225873272327

Yet another example of how free the dress code for Muslim women is: “The Al-Hayat daily reported they had resigned in the past few days after petitioning management in January over repeated criticism from a top company official for allegedly not being conservative enough in their dress.”

Shelley says:

05:15pm | 30/05/10

Hi.  Am I wrong..but shouldn’t we just be ‘banning the niq?b’ (a face veil covering all but the eye) for security reasons..just like taking off bike helmets when entering the banks, airports.  Me need to be able to see all faces, able to identify people…religion should not come into it. It is strictly for secruity. As for the other islamic clothing, I think it should be left to the women to decide but face covering needs to be banned.  We are crossing dangerous ground when we interfere with one’s regilious beliefs.

Ex-Immigration says:

03:57pm | 30/05/10

I don’t care one way or another on the banning of the burqa. My concern is that I have yet to see any evidence that Islam is a mature religion - meaning can it peacefully coexist with the non-Muslim (religious or secular).

I can just imagine you say that is rubbish but tell me one example where Islam can coexist with others? Turkey - no, Malaysia - no, Indonesia - no, Iraq - no, France - no, Germany - no. The only reason that Islam attempts to get along is when it is politically and economically weak. In those countries where Islam is strong there is no hiding that it persecutes others.

To me and also I expect the silent majority, the Burqa is just a symbol of Islamic colonisation of the West and it from here we get our uneasiness. As the West (and other regions/cultures) have been at war with Islam for over 1000 years, me for one don’t expect it to be over soon.

So let’s get to the key issue - the burqa is not the argument that matters - the real concern is it is just a precursor of what some hope, is to come.

Jesse says:

03:55pm | 30/05/10

Honestly I don’t see what the fuss is about.

People should be allowed to wear whatever they want without being persecuted buy others.

Regardless of how foreigners are treated in muslim countries. As we’ve all heard before, two wrongs don’t make a right.

I’d much rather ban jeggings and reduce camel toe sightings =)

Anthony says:

02:50pm | 30/05/10

Here in WA we need them to keep the flies off our faces…

mixed_ideals says:

02:20pm | 30/05/10

I don’t think either the hijab or burqa should be banned in total.

In a perfect world we’d have laws that prevent public expression of ANY religion but you can’t force adult people who immigrate to Australia to stop following their religion (of course as long as a practice isn’t against the law) its how they’ve been brought up.

That said I DO think that the hijab/burqa should be banned for all children in Australia (either born or immigrated); the parents from nations where the hijab/burqa is the done thing and is fine in society should have to make the concession in NOT forcing their child to wear it . Just as we make the concession in not forcing them to unveil right away. I’ll expand on this.

Let’s stop beating around the bush, it IS forced upon women at a young age just like religion is to all kids and furthermore it IS historically an image for a males control of society and the women who occupy it.

One of the sad/false metaphors in this article is: “claiming that women would never choose to wear the veil is”:

“as offensive as claiming that any woman who chooses to engage in heterosexual relationships has been duped by the patriarchy”

Sexual attraction is a natural human process, like breathing. It’s not something that children learn from any political/religious system.

Thereby comparing that to indoctrination of children to wear religious clothing is flat out false.

How many young women around the world naturally grow up and then decide to cover themselves in a cloth so that nothing can be seen but their eyes? Where else does it happen besides in countries with Men with stone-age ideals?

Okay I’ve kicked a dead horse enough.

Now onto modern islamic women who choose to wear it as it’s empowering and they’ve come to their own decision. This is the most painful point of view I think that any (and many) women in the world occupy today.

Once again it is the product of a system of religious ideal which IS factually historically oppressive. I’ll concede that today women might see it as modesty however in the days when women were counted as currency; to be traded just like cattle, it was forcibly enacted.

Now onto my conceded point which is that women of today see it as modesty (and empowering) I wonder why there aren’t more women selling female circumcision as modest and empowering? Theyre both religious frameworks for women forced as law centuries ago. Could it be that perhaps modern day Islamic women have hijacked the historical context of the burqa/hijab and cherry picked western feminist ideals and modified those views into their own context?

It is literally like the zeitgeist of the American slave movement where people were second generation slaves; fed, clothed and looked after by their rich white American owners and when asked about how they felt working on the cotton farm some would reply that they would much rather live as civilised, clothed, fed people than those poor slaves on the run and with nothing.

That view is of course; defeatist, conformist and utterly utterly sad. It’s sad because not only is it a point of view attained to under a learned an almost invisible duress (I say invisible because most people grow up not fighting tradition; what’s normal is invisible) But It’s also a total cop-out to the first generation of slaves who suffered the most tragic of persecutions.

Likewise modern Islamic women who say they choose to wear the burqa or hijab because theyve chosen it; they’re feminists and modest is sad on two sides; they don’t want to break from tradition and they truly cannot see past that simple fact (just as the most pious of person would never abandon their faith) And secondly it’s a cop-out to 1300 years of women being treated like dirt by men.

An utter utter cop out.

It’s a harsh thing to state but, how dare you call yourself a feminist.

We have banned female circumcision in Australia hence it cannot be practiced. Is my view that NOT banning immigrants from wearing the hijab/burqa a weak one?

You could see it that way, but It’s more of a concession. It’s not all black/white and there are degrees of oppression. Wearing clothing is not like cutting genitalia. I’d love to see women break free of these traditions; but it’s in a simple context (clothing) that needs to come from a movement of Australian Islamic women; not something enforced by the government.

This article isn’t helpful at all in ever seeing that come to pass. The hijab/burqa is not about being modest and modern. That comes from within. Women in the west have done fine without it forever.

John says:

02:00pm | 30/05/10

Fox 1. Brilliant.

averill says:

01:01pm | 30/05/10

Perhaps the women who wear the burqa to stop men’s lascivious glances, would be better of if they stayed in their houses and ordered their shopping online !

Tim says:

12:27pm | 30/05/10

It seems necesary to point out that, although this opinion piece discusses the bloggers personal choice to wear the identity hiding garment, it certainly does NOT contain any comment that the majority of women who do wear it are choosing to do so from their own free will. It certainly does NOT offer any conclusive proof that the majority of women who hide their appearance from head to toe so as to be almost completely indistinguishable from any other women are choosing to do so.
I openely question this supposedly educated woman WHY she chooses to wear the garment. I’ve met plently of women who identify themselves as following the Muslim religion who do NOT wear the garment, and this seemingly poses no issues with the practice of their religion.

David says:

11:58am | 30/05/10

Wahhabi Islam is not Traditional Islam as taught by the Prophet Muhammad, descendant of Ishmael son of Abraham the patriach. Wahhabism came from Saudi Arabia and it restricts the culture that was encouraged by followers of Muhammad. Followers of Muhammad are Sunni Muslims. Before Wahabism, the Islam that most Muslims follow are Sunni. Maybe people should read about why, when and how Islam was introduced to the world and only then people will understand the religion. Muhammad was never the “war” like figure that everyone talks about. While Jesus taught “love, Muhammad was sent to teach “compassion” to humankind. It’s 2 different kinds of love.

JP110848 says:

11:45am | 30/05/10

I have not read all of the comments, but it seems to me that most of those I did read pretty well all miss the point.  While the original post was about Burqa wearing as a freedom of choice, it is obvious the real issue here is religion. In my opinion the wearing of any religious symbol should be banned, as dare I say should all religions.
Intolerance, ignorance, sexual repression, religion is the cause and the outcome.

Ally says:

11:38am | 30/05/10

Terry… if atheism is a religion, then non stamp collecting is a hobby and off is a TV channel

PS Sorry for going off-topic, but Terry’s post needed correcting!

Over it says:

11:36am | 30/05/10

I can guarantee from first hand experience that when westerners travel into middle-eastern countries they better be conforming to the dress code otherwise they will be arrested or possibly worse. There is no whinging or freedom of speech or respect for our way of living. There is no understanding or debate that we may be different and forced to change the way we dress. When we travel there, we cover up and respect their ways without question…and there is great offense if this rule is broken. Yet we find that when the shoe is on the other foot, and we find this issue in our own country, there is no effort and no reason to assimilate because we are a ligitimately free country with no pressures or enforced religious dictatorships. Hipocrtitical.

Henry Cartier-Bresson says:

10:41am | 30/05/10

@Dingo

Slight correction when you mentioned Italy as a burqa banning state. The actual reason behind the woman being fined for wearing a burqa was because there is a law in Italy since the 1970s or so that bans any facial coverings in Government buildings. This law was put in place due to severe domestic political terrorists blowing up government buildings and actually has nothing to do with the burqa itself.

biker says:

10:39am | 30/05/10

if a biker has to take their helmet off to go into a petrol station so to should they be made to take the burqa off

Daniel says:

10:36am | 30/05/10

this article says that women have the option of wearing the hijab. Didnt she say “had” to wear one for 2 years in Iran? All women “have a choice” whether to wear it? What happens if a woman chooses not wear it in places like Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Oman, Iran etc?
She tells us that they want to the right to choose whether or not they can wear the burkha in western countries.
So what happens to all the western people working in Saudi Arabia? do the western women have a choice in whether they can wear the burkha/hijab or not in public? No, western women must wear a burkha/hijab no matter what.
I say ban it. You want to live in a western country then live by their values. Much the same as when westerners have to live by their values when they go to their countries.

cass says:

06:29am | 30/05/10

I am sick and tired of being told that “Australia is this Australia is that “, a constant put-down, by someone, usually a Muslim immigrant who has been denied nothing including coming into Australia, who not only hides behind pseudo-intellectualism(not usually in English) but also the notion that ‘culture’ is enough of a word to whitewash a religion (so old it’s old men’s tales) into an unreality of purity. Apparently we Australians don’t understand the bad smell and sound of bullshit from religious zealots.
Australia is the most tolerant multi-cultural country INTHE WORLD. FACT.
Not many Muslim countries are successfully multi- cultural- IS IT any SURPRISE ???  Don’t come here and fuck it up for everyone else.
Wearing face coverings- whatever you want to call it- is and has always been SEPARATIST. Not to mention gutless and rude, an excuse to be
non-social in the most normal setting as the shopping centre.
Maybe you have to see differences in the country you live in- not live through a black sheath called dumb snobbery.
Something- a chip on their shoulder-  many Muslims bring into Australia,
it gives them the excuse to rape women because they are somehow
superior because they are brainwshed by ignorance? so many great values Muslims. HAH!
Muslims cannot seem to be humble enough to see the opportunity of being an Australian,possibly from being handed everything on a plate; instead, create tension by aggressively attempting to “fine-tune” changing other people’s lives- a mixed lot of other people’s lives -under the guise of
“we’re disempowered, your’e telling us what to do” HAH!
Sorry the narrow Muslim view just keeps on revealing itself. Which is why
Their ‘culture’ should be to learn from Italians who had no help of any kind,who were more than able to embrace the opportunity to be Australian and combine their passion, their food their families and live life.

An excerpt of an interview from Author and former Dutch politician Ayaan Hirsi Ali, in Australia to address the Sydney Writers’ Festival.

In your new book, Nomad, you say that liberals in the West are far more uncomfortable condemning the ill treatment of women under Islam than conservatives. Why do you think this is so?

Liberals tend to think collectively about ethnicities, cultural groups and religion. Freedom of the individual tends to be a lesser notion. Thus a liberal might be more reluctant to interfere in the case of a Muslim father physically abusing his daughter out of some misplaced respect for cultural difference. A conservative, being more concerned with individual rights – and perhaps less subject to political correctness – would be more inclined to speak out against the wrongdoing. Liberals too often fall back on the notion that governments can solve all problems and “rescue” people who have been told they are victims of the system. Rather than speak out against totalitarian practices under Islam, they shuffle their feet.

Isn’t it also the case that journalists, usually to the left of politics, happily criticise Christianity for its abuses while letting Islam off the hook?

The term “Islamophobic” has been invented to slam anyone who dares to criticise the religion. It’s nonsense, a convenient way of avoiding honest, critical scrutiny. If I criticise George Washington, I am not defaming Americans, for example. This non-critical, morally empty attitude towards Islam helps no-one, least of all its own believers. Those who insist on a black-and-white view of Islam conveniently overlook the variations within the faith itself, between Sunni and Shia, for example. The Saudis spend over $2 billion annually on their public relations machine, hiring some of the best PR firms and lawyers to protect their ideology. People in the US and Europe are taken to court for criticising Islam, and this makes the media more cautious. It is a process of muzzling free speech.

I suggest the woman who wrote ‘feminist should back off the burqua bashing” should think before she calls herself a feminist. After all, it’s clear she hasn’t.

Nazanin Kovacs says:

11:05pm | 29/05/10

First of all I’m no expert on Islam but I’m pretty sure that the Burqa has nothing to do with Islam, it’s something the Taliban/Afghanistan came up with. I have no issues with women wearing the hijab, but when it comes to covering your face, then I have a problem. Just as it happened recently in Sydney with a man wearing the burqa in a robbery. Obviously not all people wearing the burqa are criminals but I think for the sake of being able to identify people, the face covering should be banned, if Muslim women choose to wear a hijab or a full length cover,  fine, just don’t cover your face.

Jeb says:

08:00pm | 29/05/10

The discussion is missing the real reason why women are made to wear a burqa.  One of the greatest fears that men harbour when married to or involved in a relationship with a woman is that she will have a child by another man and he has to unwittingly raise this child.  The animal kingdom (and we are animals) is replete with examples of this behaviour.  For humans it takes 18 years and a great deal of resources to raise a child and for a man (unless you have access to DNA testing) it is difficult to be sure a child is yours.  To avoid this situation men want to control a woman’s sexuality and access to other men.  In Islamic society this is manifest as dictating that women veil themselves, keeping them separate from men, forcing women to stay at home and in extreme circumstances engaging in genital mutilation (female circumcision).  This has developed out of a questionable religious text, written many centuries ago in the harsh deserts of Arabia.  Society has progressed and the modern approach is to try and base male female relationships in spirit of trust.  Trust is a more advanced emotion than fear and distrust and this allows women the freedom to take part in society on an equal basis to men.  Women have a great deal to contribute to society and the and to force them to cover up and disengage from society is a shame that should not be allowed.

So although women should be free to do as they wish and wearing a burqa may be part of that desire it is not appropriate if that practice is dictated by men in an attempt to control women.

rusty says:

07:45pm | 29/05/10

I agree with both sides of the arguement, yet I do favour the against burqa side..

Australia is a multi cultural country who has opened her gates to any and all color and creed, however, there are expectations for any migrant entering the country, these expectations are simply not to drag down the customs and beliefs ” values ” of the country but instead become part of those values.
The burqa as I understand it is something that is a religious requirement , Something to do with the husband only being allowed to see the whole beauty of the woman. This is fine and I can understand it. There are however other areas of living within australia, such as were headgear whilst driving a car, I can see this understandably upsetting other drivers, this would surely hamper vision whilst driving, I also can agree that allowing a burqa to be worn in the bank also flies in the face of a already established rule just ask the motor cycle rider… yet if we were to demmand they be removed for these reasons we would still be called racist yet these demands are exactly what some middle eastern countries so to western visitors, we visit the country yet part of the entry clause that western woman wear the burqa, yet to that country its perfectly ok, so we are not being racist at all we simply expect new comers to follow the exact same rules we have had to follow. without making a scene about it.

As for the article I beleive it is a little slanted and thats a good thing, in saying that though I am not agreeing that the australian veiw of burqas and the like is wrong either. Either way it goes, someone will be offended, in australia you have the freedom to do what you want, when you want, as long as you are not hurting anyone else in the process, so yes if you want to parade naked along a beach why not, you choose to do it, it doesnt hurt anyone else, if you dont like it, dont look, if you dont like a countries rules, dont go there, if you cant live in a country that doesnt support the constant waering of a burqa ( australia hasnt gfone this way yet ) dont live there. Just remember you have a choice, perhaps a freedom taken for granted and not realised, noone is forcing you to do anything you dont want to do,

Ash says:

06:57pm | 29/05/10

One question to the author - then why don’t you take the veil again? Because you have a choice. You are making the assumption that Muslim women have that luxury. Which of course they don’t. Your womderful motherhood statement about being acknowldeged as having agency over your whole life is therefore completely irrelvant to the question at hand - you’re in the minority…

Nick Buick says:

06:54pm | 29/05/10

Lets all hold hands, sing songs and pretend Afghanistan, Iran and Pakistan are, in fact, shrines to the progressive feminist movement and women’s liberation… Come on… get real.

Trevor says:

06:52pm | 29/05/10

Every women should have the right to choose if they want to wear the burqa.
Banning the burqa is not the answer, its their right to wear what they wish (assuming they want to wear it).

Banning the burqa from banks however is valid.

The answer is to punish those people who illegally punish women for NOT wearing a burqa, Women should have the right to choose what they wear.

Speedy says:

06:35pm | 29/05/10

Where does the requirement for women being dressed modestly come from?
Is it the idea that you had to hide the face/body of your women so that they would not be kidnapped by male visitors? Is it like the belief that Pork is evil? (Based on the fact that pork used to be a dangerous meat to eat, because of parasites etc, which became tradition over time?)

Is there any universal authority that can examine the relevant clauses in the various holy books and let us know if they are based on the word of God, or just tradition that forgot its reason?

One last point, believe what you want, but only try to increase your numbers through breeding or by example. Forcing people to join your religion is wrong.

Meg says:

05:48pm | 29/05/10

FINALLY! A well written article that defends a woman CHOICE, whatever that choice be. Thankyou Sara.

As a western equalist (not a feminist, but that’s another story) I really get a bee in my bonnet when my fellow women intellectuals infer that every woman wears the burqa under duress.

Rather than reducing their choices by banning the burqa, we need to understand that our choices and our perceptions of freedom may possibly differ from a non western woman’s beliefs. The fact that I need to then go on to explain after that statement that I am very much for the defence of a woman’s choice NOT to wear the burqa, and to pursue her dreams, freedoms and passions as an equal to men is a sad reflection on the state of modern feminism and our ongoing interactions with other cultures.

Ted says:

05:43pm | 29/05/10

Glenn, good point. Might protect some of our footy players from women who prey on them
Seriously, when I travel to othe rmore conservative countries I dress to avoid or minimise offence to that culture.  I respect those sensitivities.  I certainly do not try to challenge those values or want to try to change them.  To do otherwise would be selfish and/or dangerous on my part.  All I ask burka wearers is to accept that in Australia their dress will draw attention, some disturbance and varying comments. Whilst some might argue the debate is dicriminatory, it serves the purpose of a society relief valve, whether we like it or not.  To shut this valve would mean we are living in an oppressed society.  This burka debate will dissappear, but it must be had to open the eyes of both the wearers and the general public.

Adam Bowman says:

04:49pm | 29/05/10

Would it be socially acceptable if my friends and I decided to dress up and run around like ninjas, with only our eyes showing? I doubt it. And don’t try and rebut with ‘faith is different to that’. Religion is a choice, which is what this article would also lead to believe, albeit by saying that we should all be able to choose how we live our lives. While this is true to an extent, we can’t choose to do things that are damaging to society, ie. murder, theft, perjury. And I’m not sure if anyone has pointed out that Muslim men aren’t required to wear full body veils. Can they not be degraded by sexualisation? If you dismiss this offhand, I would consider questioning your notions of gender.

Carol says:

04:00pm | 29/05/10

I am not Muslim but I am a woman. I am also a feminist. I would like to think that should I decide one day   for reasons of my own, to wear a costume that I happen to like but which covers me from head to toe, that I would have the freedom to do so. Banning a style of dress only makes us more like the repressors we claim to be against.

Josh says:

02:38pm | 29/05/10

I think any woman who wants to wear a tent is entitled to do so as she wishes, particularly for religious or cultural reasons. However as that is a private thing she should do so in private, just as a person who wants to be nude should do so in private. To insist on the right to convert public space to their own sphere of private space is a form of theft known as conversion. The psychological effect is to make people in that public space feel as though they are trespassing on the tent wearer’s private space and thus feel like an intruder, in public! This is why people find the burka confronting. Tent ladies, do your private thing in private.

Moo says:

01:42pm | 29/05/10

You know what irks me?  If I go to a Muslim country I have to cover up.  Yet all these Muslim women in Australia don’t dress as the Australian public do.  Double standards most definately.  If you want to wear full coverings, go home.  I don’t want to wear full coverings so I don’t go to your country.

Guy says:

12:16pm | 29/05/10

My stance is very similar to that of Tom Uptons in his post above. I am disgusted at the idea of a woman being forced to wear the burqa against her will by pressure from her husband/family/society etc, but I am equally disgusted at the thought of anyone from any ethnic, religious or cultural background being forced to conform to an others standards. I support whole heartedly the ideal of religious freedom and individuals of all faiths should be allowed the freedom in a liberal democracy to express their individuality, this includes their faith choices. My main issue with the burqa however is based upon 2 points. 1: I believe that one of the corner stones of an effective and open society is the ability to interact and engage with each other on an open and personal level. I have found through my time in a number of Islamic Middle Eastern nations that a normal level of interaction and engagement is severely hindered by the burqa as it ‘removes the face’ of the individual. Facial expressions are vital to human interaction and I feel that the burqa serves to cut off an individual from the rest of society. This is not based on a form of xenophobia, i would feel exactly the same way about a white, christian male wearing a mask.
2: as Tom Upton has already established, there are a number of security concerns. Whilst some may use this as a convenient argument to ‘prove’ their argument that muslims are dangerous, I feel in Australian society that it is inappropriate for an individual to be able to cover their face in a way that for all others is not allowed for security reasons. facial identification is a vital part of security, it’s why I am not allowed to walk into a bank wearing a motorcycle helmet and why i have a photo of my face on my license and passport.

There is neither scriptural justification for the burqa in the Koran or commandment to don it and as such I don’t believe a ban on the burqa in areas where public security demand the exposure of the face is an infringement on ones freedom of religion. It impinges upon ones right to choose what they wish to wear, but not their freedom of religion. I have done, and will continue to defend the right of muslim women to conform to their religious convictions by wearing such clothing as the hijab, however I personally believe that there is no place for the burqa within public australian society.

ML1975 says:

11:34am | 29/05/10

Firstly, what I don’t understand is that there is no mention of the Burqa in the Qur’an except for some vague statements on dressing modestly which is argued for both sexes.  I think its fine that woman chooses to wear the Burqa but I would ask why?  If they say its for religious grounds, then I would ask why again when its not written in the Qur’an.  If we are talking of modesty, why are men not wearing something similar to a Burqua, why just women?  That’s where it feels insidious and oppressive. 

Secondly, I think Australians have less of an issue with the Hijab (head scarf) than the Burqa.  In a society which is built on human interaction and inclusiveness, the Burqa removes the face of a woman to the rest of society. She is essentially only a person to her family and to nobody else.  I can certainly see why Australians would find this offensive.  It is these issues that need to be discussed.  A common ground has to be found where both societies can feel comfortable.  It is unfair to ask that Australian’s simply accept the Burqa and compromise their own values on the issue.

Greg says:

11:04am | 29/05/10

“As a Muslim feminist I find this infuriating, condescending and patronising. “

All I seem to see on the news and media is muslims being “infuriated etc”  over cartoons etc perhaps this is the problem, now you are infuriated by this… surprise surprise. Muslims are not willing to adopt western values of their adopted countires. If a woman goes to a middle eastern country it is recommended that she cover up as not to offend the locals and their religious beliefs or customs, fair enough because she is visiting “their” country. If YOU come to OUR country I expect buddist, muslim or catholic to fit in to OUR standards and not have the rest of Australia walk on egg shells because you are muslim.

The problem lies in the fact that most muslim’s identify themselves as muslims first and not as an Australian, Italian, Frenchman etc. They put Islam above all else and everything and everyone must take a back seat to it. Then Islamic values must be imposed on the rest of the population to in order to keep muslims happy. Australia has fostered a terrible custom whereby anyone denying any minority ANY request or demand is deemed a racist. This is not a racial problem or religious discrimination, it is the requirement of new Australians to adopt Western values. Lets have a look at Chechnya, Bosnia, and other countries where a Muslim majority has declared independent Islamic states. It is not an issue of race, but religion dividing people and causing conflict.

If you don’t like it in Australia you are by all means welcome to return to Iran where the religious police will make sure you wear you customary garments.

What would you like next Sharia Law like Sharia courts in the UK? If this happens only more division will take place, and if it doesn’t i’m sure we’ll see more infuriated muslims protesting their percieved injustice.

Lets keep this amazing country balanced for ALL and not tip the balance to this bunch of tantruming 4 year olds.

Big Vin says:

10:53am | 29/05/10

Look, Just let them wear it, If we say anything were just seen as racist. I’‘ve given up on Australia.

Also I think Tom Upton has hit the nail on the head

Jonathan Paige says:

10:17am | 29/05/10

The burka is nothing other than ‘in your face’ extremism.
Those who wear the burka are the believers in Sharia Law. How can you believe in Sharia law and at the same time embrace western values? They contradict. Unfortunately this is a major ‘grey area’ in democracy. Democracy and immigration are not always compatible.
If Sharia law does not embrace Western values, cultures, laws or our society in any way then why do you live in this country and then claim rights under laws that you do not even support?
The burka should be banned in all non-muslim countries. Just as if we wen’t to a muslim country in a bikini or kissed our wife in public we’d be thrown in jail or stoned to death!
If you do not respect the place you live enough to integrate with the people and support the laws and cultures that made that country so great in the first place then you should get on a plane and wear your burka in a country that does embrace sharia law.

mary says:

09:34am | 29/05/10

Just to clarify mary from 6.57 is a different mary from mary from 4.07.
This is mary 6.57 who hasn’t read all the comments but quite a few and am surprised that the issue of feeling of safety for women does not seem to be addressed. Because through my own experience as described, this is a real issue which may well lie at the core of why women choose to wear a burqa.

We’re all entitled to our opinion but maybe if we look at ‘why’ women choose to wear a burqa ..  and address those issues and reasons, then perhaps women may not feel compelled to wear a burqa.

I’m sure that ‘not being looked at as if one is a piece of meat’ would rank quite high and if guys can’t keep their eyes to themselves then maybe women should be allowed to wear whatever they see fit to keep their dignity.

Nick of OZ says:

09:34am | 29/05/10

Seeing the comments have drifted off the article I may as well continue and ask one simple question. How on earth have they immagrated? I recently had to transit through a couple of countries and with the differing security checks they must have had to take their shoes off in some but what about the ID check I had a base ball cap on and was asked to remove it!
Oh I know their passport has a picture of them in their garbs.

Seriously this is not an outfit in line with Australian life style, I’m not saying wear a bikini just dress normally and anyway they must be able to be id checked otherwise they are a security risk.

Mike - Adelaide says:

09:23am | 29/05/10

I dont really give too much for religous garb.  I think seeing the Pope and the like wearing their conical hats etc to me means that they must just simply enjoy dressing up, the Queen must be the same.  Judges even look pretty pathetic with their wigs.  Get real guys.  I can understand the reason for wearing a hat ie to keep that beautiful Australian sun off you head but what is the real purpose of the Burqa.  Is it keep the sand and flies off the womens faces.  Are the women so beautiful that to look at them they will drive men into a sexual frenzie or are they so ugly that they are ashamed to show their face.  Even men wearing a beard are said to be hiding something. I am all for banning the beard as well.  In the end this sought of cultural dress would have been imposed by some religious leader who had a bee in his bonnet.  Celebicy was not Jesus idea but some religous leaders.  Just another man.  In the end its simply this ‘your mother did it and so shall you’.  Some choice.  But what purpose does it really serve ?  Then again does there have to be one ?  ####### if i know.

Rob McGill says:

09:22am | 29/05/10

Interesting article Sara, thanks. But we are in Australia now and you can’t wear a helmet into shops and banks etc, you can’t smoke where you want and you can’t call a black person black. The soccer thing makes imminent sense from many perspectives so why should the minority rule again? Try doing what you do here in other countries, we have to abide by rules there so why can’t those who come here abide by ours?

James says:

09:08am | 29/05/10

Sara, you really are going to desperate lengths to try and justify islamic oppression of women.

Tell me this - if the burqa is so liberating, why aren’t all the men wearing them too? If the burqa was so great men would be flocking to wear them.

Islamic women say that they ‘want’ to cover their faces because that’s what they are taught to be good when they are young.

Just because somebody is conditioned to be comfortable wearing a burqa (so much so that they are so deluded that they convince themseleves that they ‘choose’ to do it), that is absolutely no excuse to continue to tolerate this barbaric and outrageous behaviour.

Ali says:

08:34am | 29/05/10

I find it sad woman cover up with a burqa, you can’t even tell who it is, why hide like that? i don’t get it, and it scares me a fair bit, and young kids would be pretty panicked i’d imagine. I read The Stoning of Soraya recently and if that kind of stuff comes with islam and allah i really don’t want to see it or be around it personally. Do what you wont in your own homes. Scary. People can cover up if they wont, but to the extreme of the burqa just is horrible, not to mention people are using it now to commit crimes and stay hidden. Ban it in public here too please. Thanks.

Nikki says:

08:03am | 29/05/10

Muslim feminist? There’s a contradiction in terms. It’s like a caged animal persuading itself it’s free. Stop being a tool for the oppressors.

Johnno says:

08:03am | 29/05/10

They come to western countries seeking asylum in leaky boats but once they got in they want to impose this offensive culture on the rest of the population. They pose huge security risk to their host countries. If that’s the culture they want to live in then don’t come and live in western countries. I agree with P Clancy wholeheartedly, I too came from a South East Asian country that has been destroyed by this islamic rule. These people should stay where they are, Australia doesn’t need you here.

Brandon Ehlers says:

06:39am | 29/05/10

Western values are banned in muslim countries. I want the burqa banned in Australia.

Steve Nosympathy says:

02:59am | 29/05/10

Forget the feminist argument, it’s strictly a security nightmare. Can’t see the face or know something dangerous is not being carried on the body - then it shouldn’t be allowed in public.

Melanie Shambat says:

01:08am | 29/05/10

My article does not ask that women should be punished for wearing a burqa, but suggests that such a law be generalised to include symbols of oppression and hatred.  Please have a read:
http://bettermillenium.blogspot.com/2010/05/to-burqa-or-not-to-burqa.html

T says:

12:00am | 29/05/10

I will only respect the “choice” to wear a burqa when the religious and gender-specific elements are removed.

And to clarify, I’m not prejudiced- I *despise* all religions.

sisie bright says:

11:25pm | 28/05/10

“This is just as offensive as claiming that any woman who chooses to engage in heterosexual relationships has been duped by the patriarchy. “

What’s offensive about the truth?

Mulan says:

10:48pm | 28/05/10

Yakhi I say conservative dressing is an individuals choice not a religion…No-one is asking the women to strip, just show your face. You can still dress up modestly, I see no harm in banning the burqa.

Jessie says:

10:47pm | 28/05/10

As an Australian born feminist I have struggled with the notion of the Burqa. It’s hard not to see the history in it, but ultimately feminism is about having the choice. As long as women are CHOOSING to wear it and not being forced then it is none of mine, nor anybody else’s business.

Dingo- Well said on almost all counts.

BTS- What are you smoking?

Rahi Adil- Your attitude is just as bad as those that are condemning your culture, only yours seems very hypocritical. Australian’s should all strive to be understanding of cultural beliefs . . . that includes you too mate.

Jacki Collins- You are a bimbo. A law is something you must follow, culture is not. Yes people coming to this country should make efforts to speak our language and follow our laws . . . but that doesn’t mean they have to pretend they are not who they are. Next you will tell them to eat what we eat and follow our religions. Grow up. You disgust me.

Mike says:

09:59pm | 28/05/10

Scarves have never been evil, in my mind. I really couldn’t care less about what women wear most of the time. It is their choice. There are social pressures each way but basically it’s up to them to decide as individuals.

But it does make me laugh that 99% of the Burqa criticism comes from men who are “protecting the rights of women”. Strangely this criticism generally comes from men who have NEVER cared about feminism or even basic human rights.

Oh the joys of hypocrisy!

Jason Driscoll says:

09:02pm | 28/05/10

If its ok to choose not to wear the “hood” in Saudi Arabia what happens to the woman? This writer is so lucky she has the freedoms of Australia to be able to choose. (And to continue her views. Its so sad Chirstians don’t have these same rights, such as to eat Pork or prey ina church in Arab countries!

Mick says:

08:39pm | 28/05/10

I don’t know if anyone could possibly have read every comment on this thread. Thousands!!

But anyway - the big banks have all come out and said they have no dramas with their customers wearing the burqa. That, as far as I am concerned, is the end of the “security risk” arguement.

If I was going to rob the bank, I would prepare earlier, don a ski mask, a motorbike helmet, a costume mask, or even just a hat and sunglasses and off I go - visual identification is now basically impossible. We should ban all those things too if you are that worried.

If the burqa was linked to any other religion than islam/muslim, we would not even be having this debate.

Janet says:

08:03pm | 28/05/10

I don’t like the burqua but I would never suggest or condone it being banned.  I would also like to note the article is about the Hijab, an item of clothing more common and generally accepted in Australia.  Personally I think some Hijabs can be a beautiful and very decorative piece of clothing and made of beautiful material.

I feel the title of the article is inflamatory - and by reading the many comments above it is really disapointing how harsh both sides of the argument have been voiced.

Tolerance all round would be a much better thing.  Think before you write.

Raquel A. Smythe says:

07:57pm | 28/05/10

If I went to some of the countries where Burqa’s are worn I would be expected to “kind of follow suit and cover up”, yet when they come here they expect to be allowed to wear their Burqa and chuck a wobbly when we ask that they wear the clothing we westerners expect.  I don’t think that women who wear the burqa are oppressed or anything like that, wear it if you like but don’t force me to cover up in your country if you wont uncover in mine.  I hope you understand what I mean, my words are not aimed at offending anyone.

jon says:

07:24pm | 28/05/10

First burqas, then some elements of Sharia law, maybe just around marraige and family, then the rest of Sharia, then taking over government, then forcing everyone to wear burquas.  That may not be the agenda of this particular blogger but it is the agenda of Osama and many fundamentalist muslims who send innocent sounding ones like this to start softening us up.  Remember how intolerant Christianity became within 100 years of Constantine’s “edict of tolerance”?

Joseph says:

07:24pm | 28/05/10

To be honest I don’t really care about it. If we were in some place like France with a large population of Muslims, maybe I would care more. I don’t blame places in Europe for banning it, but in Australia it is a non issue. I have hardly seen any women wearing it. To be honest, there are more pressing concerns regarding the ill effects of having an incohesive multicultural society like ours. For example, Chinese-Australian ethnic nepotism in business. That effects more people, on numerous levels, than what Muslims choose to wear. If we want to debate multiculturalism and its effects, let’s start with real issues, not fluffy, sensationalist ones like this.

David E says:

07:20pm | 28/05/10

I find it interesting that this debate is occurring. If a person is confirmed nudist they are not permitted to walk our streets naked. Why is this - because we have certain standards to which our society abides. Similarly we do not abide the wearing of the burkha because it does not conform to our societal standards. Nor do we abide by the repugnant and repressive standards that certain muslims or christians believe that thye have the right to impose on others. Especially when such standards represent a feudal system of female ownership which we are still in the process of ridding ourselves of.

Rebecca Gilchrist says:

06:45pm | 28/05/10

Please someone correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t its a little hypocritical that France, Belgium and other western nations are being criticized for their objecting to the head scarf when, as westerners traveling in other parts of the world we too are expected to modify our dress.

I am by no means against the head scarf, i think everyone should be entitled to wear whatever they feel comfortable in. yet i cant help but wonder perhaps WE. yes we westerns are being wrongly demonized.

I would like to think that I am relatively open minded and willing to take steps to make people less uncomfortable with my presence when visiting their countries. Wouldn’t it only seem fair for the same courtesy to be returned?

Rebecca Gilchrist says:

06:43pm | 28/05/10

Please someone correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t its a little hypocritical that France, Belgium and other western nations are being criticized for their objecting to the head scarf when, as westerners traveling in other parts of the world we too are expected to modify our dress.

I am by no means against the head scarf, i think everyone should be entitled to wear whatever they feel comfortable in. yet i cant help but wonder perhaps WE. yes we westerns are being wrongly demonized.

I would like to think that I am relatively open minded and willing to take steps to make people less uncomfortable with my presence when visiting their countries. Wouldn’t it only seem fair for the same courtesy to be returned?

Tania Morrison says:

06:23pm | 28/05/10

I have yet to find anything about Islam which is commendable.  None of their societies are fair, just or even pleasant.  That is why so many want to come to the west.

JB says:

06:18pm | 28/05/10

I wear a hat in the sun, but take it off when i go inside. I also wear sunglasses, but when someone approches me to talk, I remove them. I have even worked in the sun and dust, and covered my whole head in a scarf. I ride a motorbike, but would never wear a helmet more than 10m away from my bike. - Because Australian society has conventions of what is considered appropriate. I would never walk into a Service station with that scarf or helmet still on my head, I imagine that would be frightning to a sales assistant., and it would be rude of me to not remove my sunglass once inside, especially if I was going to talk to some one. In our society we are suspisious of someone who doesn’t stick to these type of conventions.

Michelle says:

06:15pm | 28/05/10

I am always amazed that so many people find a piece of material so confronting and oppressive.  If someone wants to wear a burqa, go for it.  Sometimes when I go out in winter, I wear a beanie, sunglasses, scarf, jumper etc.  If I go to the beach (pretty rare) I wear a floppy hat, sunnies, long t’shirt etc as I burn really easily. Its pretty much just my nose that pokes out and I am yet to have someone be horrified at my un-Australian, covered, identity crushing state. 
I would much prefer to see a woman freely wearing a burqa than I would have a group of politicians telling women what they can and can’t wear for their own good. I think I can decide what is good for me thank you very much.  And if a woman is being forced/coerced/whatever to wear a burqa, banning it isn’t all of a sudden make everything fine and dandy.  Do you think the people forcing the woman to wear the burqa will just go, Oh well, such is life, off you go than.  If they can coerce women into wearing the burqa, they can persuaded/force/whatever them to not leave the house in such an uncovered state.  Is it better that they be locked away so no-one knows whats going on?  Rather than legislate, it is far better to educate (hey it rhymes) and try and change the thinking of those who oppress the women (that isn’t just a muslim problem not matter what anyone thinks).  Oppression of women comes in many shapes and forms - not just a burqa.  So why do we get so hung up on it.

Karl says:

06:00pm | 28/05/10

When I was working in Afghanistan, we had several young attractive girls in our office who would wear make up and take their scarves off but then cover their heads if a national walked in.  Makes you wonder why they felt relaxed in the presence of foreigners and had to cover themselves up around their fellow countrymen.

Tony Gill says:

05:51pm | 28/05/10

Hi Sara,

Apropos of your article, I believe there’s a bigger question that needs to be answered here:

If the tenets of a c.1300-year-old religion are still to be largely viewed as appropriate to our times, or at least its followers are to be allowed to view them as appropriate, why cannot religions born in our own time be granted similar social and political approval for their practices?

For example, if a modern prophet said God had decided that He now wanted us to always remain undressed and in our natural state in public—weather permitting—he/she is very likely to be viewed as a sexual deviant and arrested for promoting breach of the peace. Even if he/she were simply following their “free will”, as were their followers. (There actually is a 2500-year-old religious sect in India, the Digambar Jains, who are required to do exactly that by their traditions. I am not very sanguine about the chances of their being allowed to practice this tradition, of their “free will”, around the world).

Or, what if God appeared to, say, someone like me (just an example) and said He had changed his mind after all these years about Islam/Christianity/Judaism, and presented me with a new set of tenets to reveal to the world? What do you think would be my chances of being tolerated by Islam/Christianity/Judaism for practicing my “free will”?

This question vexes me. Can I request to you bring your evidently formidable powers of analysis and explication to bear on it?

Thanks,
Tony

crystal says:

10:49am | 28/05/10

Ban the Bra!

I have a vague memory of this slogan during the 70’s, If my memory serves, the supporters (pun intended) of the womens movement suggested that the Bra was a symbol of male oppresion and should be banned.

It sounds very very similar like the Burqua discussion… no one MUST wear a bra, but some people CHOOSE to. (im not even going to start on the reasons behind “make up”)

So… ladies if you are forced to go braless.. would you see this as a reasonable expectation and be thanking theose people who removed your freeedom of choice?

Of course if the reason for banning is the concern about disguise etc… then we must also ban…. beards, moustaches, sunglasses, make up etc etc.

claudia says:

04:12pm | 27/05/10

I wonder if orthodox jewish women in melbourne’s balaclava or toorak decided to cover their faces to have better attainment of tzniut like their sisters in some towns in Israel today, would there be such a massive outcry as we r having here against Muslim women? Somehow i dont think so…..

Some perspective says:

03:48pm | 27/05/10

Almost every movement ‘feminists’ (I loathe such a discriminatory sexist term) had success in transforming was due to the fact that they had to change women’s minds, not men’s (ie voting, working with family). Men are generally happy if women are. Did you ever think that the laws, govt and media would have just quashed such a movement otherwise? It is feminists whom insist men are the enemy and you all swallow it up.

Now lets look at this type of ‘suppression’ in Christian society. A woman can wear jeans, pants, dress, skirt,  mini skirt, crop top, boobtube, tshirt, shirt, suit, blouse. What can a man wear in this society without being condemned? I mean they even get condemned for wearing budgie smugglers when swimming…

Anna McCormack says:

07:07am | 27/05/10

A largely thoughtful article…..but can we back off the feminist bashing?  Most ‘ban the burqa’ comments come from right wing and/or controlling men .....feminists, of whom you’re one Sara, mostly consider the issues with deep respect and reflection….

Alex says:

11:25pm | 26/05/10

Why dont we bann young indian men wearing turbans then? same thing.
If a girl wants to wear a mini skirt let her if a girl chooses to cover up let her.
If people want to walk around naked let them no1 can tell anyone how to dress especially any government.

NESLIHAN KUROSAWA says:

11:13pm | 26/05/10

H? Ms Sara Haghdoosti
I just wanted to say that it s high time and long overdue, that we have someone who is actually from the Middle Eastern backround, like yourself who is included in one of the major newspaper like the Daily Telegraph as a commentator. All along we have been actually bombarded by news about the muslim population and unfortunately, it has all being very negative to begin with and to say the least. Journalism is all about being objective, not subjective reporting the new as it actually happens from all different angles. You try to do that by trying not to be prejudiced and b?ased. I also th?nk you should publish views or comments with racist slurs like “leave my country” This is just a request,  if you want to be non discriminating to everyone in our community.  I just wanted to say good luck and all the best to you. And by the way for people who actually believe that we have so called womens special rights or priveleges, please think again!!!!  Feminism began in the years I was born. I am just cur?ous to know “is it still alive” and actually working in the general population. When you come up with some answers, I would like to know. I have also noticed that you are the only female journalist on the PUNCH. Once again, I hope you stay on and enlighten us with clever topics and the interesting news and mind stimulating conversation we have been searching and longing for. Bye for now.

Gemmy says:

10:07pm | 26/05/10

Fatima I have lived in a muslim country for three months and also been in secular Turkey and the women there dont assimilate with anyone outside their culture and religion. I made an attempt to speak the language as well and was mostly ignored.I am the last person you would call prejudiced. My niece is married to an Iranian doctor, my siblings are all married to women from other countries,I was engaged to a Muslim man as well so please dont tell me I am prejudiced. My comments were made having some first hand knowledge of what I am talking about.
Oh and I do have muslim girlfriends and they wear hijab but dont wear the burqa as they feel it is oppressive and unneccessary in this country!
I have also had muslim men say that they think western women are “loose” because of their dress and they seem to think that extends to their morals as well.By that I mena ordinary respectable dress, not bikinis etc.
If that doesnt tell you that it is the men who mostly want their women to wear the burqa in public , then nothing I can say will convince you!

Kafir says:

09:20pm | 26/05/10

Islamic choice: May 25, 2010 MEULABOH (Indonesia) - ISLAMIC police in Indonesia’s Aceh province have been issued with 20,000 long skirts and ordered to cover up women deemed to have broken Muslim dress codes, an official said on Tuesday.

Gemmy says:

05:56pm | 26/05/10

It is all very well to say that these women are assimilating into the community. I have yet to see a woman in a burqa chatting happily to another woman on the street who doesnt wear a burqa or for that matter in the company of a male who isnt a relative or for that matter walking alone on the streets. Where is the sense of freedom in that? As an Australian woman I would love to make the aquaintance of many muslim woman as I have travelled in Muslim countries but these women just dont wish to have friends outside of thier own religion and culture!
I also have a lot of friends who say that they feel muslim people are making out that all men are lusting after their women and are seen as potential rapists.How insulting is this to the men of Australia?

Muslim women who wear the burqa say that they are creatine , educated etc but why not show some creativity within your religions guidelines and why hide away behind the veil?
Allah does not say anywhere in the Koran that women have to wear the Burqa but to be modest in their dress and and example or their piety!

Bash says:

05:45pm | 26/05/10

Your op ed is fundamentally correct, however you’re speaking about an absolute negated MINORITY of muslim women and you’re using the fact you’re a muslim and a feminist to throw out an argument from authority, which is purely fallacious at best. The fact of the matter is, muslim women are oppressed, and articles like these just water down the willingness of other feminists to care enough to try and help, making many write them off as wilfully oppressed when it is NOT the case.

Gabor says:

04:46pm | 26/05/10

The burqa is an un-Australian dress code and if the majority agree, then yes it should definitely be banned. HOWEVER let’s not be hasty and think about things more clearly.. we should ban all dress codes that are un-Australian.. The seikh turban, the monk outfits, the Indian sari’s, aboriginal body paint and catholic nun outfits (how oppressive, I can’t believe the priest force the nuns to wear such a thing) etc.
Seriously this shouldn’t even be a head line topic in Australia. My great great grandparents migrated here from Poland to allow their children to have freedom of speech and religion for all.. so I am very saddened to see that were moving from that to a racist and intolerant nation.

Fr John Fleming says:

03:04pm | 26/05/10

I agree with Sara’s broad line of argument.  In Australia people are free to wear whatever they wish provided it does not contravene laws of decency.  But Sara does use some really silly arguments.  For example: “I find the fact the Christian parents in Western Australia can force their girls not to have abortions if they want one equally as abhorrent as Muslim parents forcing their children to wear the veil.”  Abortion is a rather more serious issue than what clothes one wears.  If you oppose abortion (as most practising Muslims and Christians do) it is because of the wrongfulness of killing an innocent human beings, the devastating effect abortion can have on a young woman once she realises the gravity of what has been done, and because parents have a legal right to make decisions for their children.  Where the burqua and hibab are concerned, parents have the legal right to determine what their minor children will wear.  Thereafter every adult person decides for himself or herself.  We should not be afraid of the fact that sincere Muslim women choose to wear these clothes for religious and cultural reasons.  The assumption that these women are fools and dolts is just that, an assumption.  But sound argument should only proceed on the basis of facts.

Evan Jones says:

01:58pm | 26/05/10

The author’s fundamental argument is that it is inappropriate to restrict choice of clothing because individuals should have an ‘unqualified’ ability to make ‘decisions regarding their body and life’.  This is an interesting philosophical point, but in Australian, we do not currently have this choice.

For example you can be arrested for wearing an offensive tee-shirt.  Also, at the other extreme from full coverage, I can’t wander the streets naked, I would have to wear a sock or some such (a ballqa perhaps).

Putting aside arguments on security laws, a great deal of this debate rests on the question, should we in-fact have an ‘unqualified’ ability to choose what we wear.  Fairly clearly the dominant paradigm is that we should not.

If then ‘acceptable clothing’ is a reasonable product of cultural sensibilities should the burqa be prohibited?  The prominent argument in favour is that the burqa is strongly linked to abhorrent abuses of women in some cultures.  I just saw a preview for ‘The Stoning of Soraya M.’ so this argument holds a lot of sway for me.

I am still trying to decide on where I am with this but maybe a good question to ask is, what is too culturally offensive,  a woman in a burqa, a yob in a tee-shirt or me without my ballqa?

Jason says:

01:58pm | 26/05/10

Good article Sara, but I’m thinking that the early paragraph on women (who choose freely to wear the burqa) “do not have the intellect or gumption to stand up” is a little too black and white. I don’t think intellect or gumption has anything to do with their arguments against it, rather it is what is incorrectly perceived as free will.

Some neighbours a few doors down from my home are Exclusive Brethren, the nutter Christian cult. We see their beautiful young daughters playing in the street, but we also know that they are not allowed to play with other young children in the area (for fear of soul contamination, truly). They are already betrothed to marry young, they are not permitted to speak during services (even as adults), they are not allowed to be educated or hold any kind of position of authority, and must always be subservient to males. When they come of age, these girls will exercise their “free will” daily and submit to a misogynistic life. If these same girls had been given a choice at birth, understanding all options, would they still chose this lifestyle? An answer that is not 100% clear suggests that free will is presently being stifled. In my mind, free will can only come through education, not indoctrination.

And how does this relate to the burqa? Well, I don’t wear one, I’m not a woman, and truth be told I’m not a Muslim (or Christian while we’re being honest) and it would be an insult to suggest that I know the life of a Muslim woman. But I do know what I see, and the perception is that burqa-clad women are being oppressed on the grounds of gender alone and seem to be willing participants. You may ask if this is actually oppression, but the burqa covers more than their beauty; it covers their identity, individuality, their joy, and their tears. So yes, I believe this is oppression.

Ally says:

01:37pm | 26/05/10

I have just read http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/the-truth-behind-the-burqa/ by Jacqueline Pascarl… a brilliant article!

loxy says:

01:21pm | 26/05/10

I think this author takes a very one-sides approach in her article. While I don’t doubt that some muslim women wear the burqa by choice, we all know there are many who don’t choose. If there are even 10 women in this country who are forced or feel heavily pressured to wear the burqa then it’s a problem - and I’m sure even the author would agree that there are far more than 10 muslim women in this country forced or heavily pressured to cover up.

While I fundamentally agree with upholding our value and right of allowing freedom to religion, the wearing of the burqa is not actually part of the muslim religion as it has no mention in the Koran, it is a cultural tradition only. It’s origins, whether it is the case in Oz now or not, are tied to a long history of oppressing women, which still continues overseas in the Middle East today.

For these reasons, whether it’s PC or not, I find the burqa offensive because of what it represents. I don’t believe it fits in with our culture and has no place in this country. As a result,  as contentious as it is I would support a ban.

I love that our country is multicultural, however I strongly feel that if you want to stick to draconian cultural practices like wearing a burqa then Australia is not the country for you.

pink says:

12:36pm | 26/05/10

Interesting topic! I agree with the article - let freedom of choice rein. If they want to wear it, why not? I would not force anyone to wear or not wear any other item of clothing. Only exception I feel should be if at an airport, they are asked to remove their robe for screening/identification then they must comply with the law - same as all Australians. The irony is when certain religions/cutures are fighting to be “as one” with Australia (which is generally a multi-cultural place) yet feel that they are exempt from our laws due to their religion - no wonder people feel angry! The same laws apply for all. Freedom of speech, clothing etc.

W says:

12:27pm | 26/05/10

The problem is Australian do not have that common value and customs as other religion bonded countries may have. This country is consist of groups of all faith. And it is what great about this country. I would have no problem if you ban burqa in bank, airport or wherever a clear face is needed to be displayed for identification. But it is wrong to ban people’s freedom of choice when there’s no need for it.

James says:

12:24pm | 26/05/10

Australian values are simply modern Western values with Australian stylings, probably the most important Australian finish we have put on our inheritance of Western values does not come in the form of clothing or food, it is Australian humour, which is why many other cultures mistakenly assume there is no Australian culture. 

Whatever local finish we have put on our western values, a key underlying Western value we hold dear is the rejection of a society based on Tyranny in favour of indivual freedom moderated by the Golden rule.

Rejection of tyranny (as imperfectly as the West has actually managed this) is what distinguishs the West, from regimes like the USSR, North Korea, Iran, Iraq (under Sadam), NAZI Germany, Zimbabwe (under Mugabe) etc etc.

Tyranny takes many forms, but whatever form it takes it is the actual tyranny is what we have to reject if we want to be consistant with Western values (and I think most Australians do).  If you ban clothing that someone wants to wear that is tyranny.  If you force someone to wear something, that is tyranny.

fweedom says:

11:58am | 26/05/10

bah….all religions are stupid. this is just a facet of religions stupidity. rather than worry about burka’s worry that people need to believe in fairy tales to get through the day. i think it should be considered a mental illness to believe in anything as specific as the bible or koran. also i think spiderman is the son of god and i have exactly as much evidence to support this belief as any religion does. i dont dislike the muslim faith i dislike anything that is believed without accompanying proof or at the least a probability of being true. i realise this is off topic a little but all you ounks got too say your bit. thanks for the entertainment work was boring today.

Leigh says:

11:25am | 26/05/10

“But to say that no woman, anywhere, under any circumstances can choose to express her faith in her choice of clothing is ludicrous”

Careful Sara. Would you say this same thing to the men who run your home country, Iran? Think about that for a second.

Many European nations have REAL problems with Muslims not integrating into their society and their ways. They refuse to associate with white Europeans and create their own neighbourhoods with their own rules. One wonders why they even want to live in a different country when they don’t want to change their lifestyle at all. And it is entirely normal and human to feel threatened by things they do not understand. This is why in your home country, women are required to be covered up and if they do not, it is punishable. Your country men and women feel threatened by westernisation - they feel that foreigners bringing their own ideas into their country is wrong. You are very quick to criticise our ideas of living but I see no criticism of your home country and the way they feel about foreigners. You show incredible bias in your article and it comes across as very immature.

Lyndal says:

11:18am | 26/05/10

Honestly, I think Muslims are absolutely crazy to wear the burqa (face covered), or even just the hijab (face uncovered).  It never used to be so widespread, and everyone got by quite well without it.  The Ayatollah Khomeini regime started the trend, e.g. hijab was not worn in Malaysia until then.  Muslims who advocate it forget that modesty is a moving target that varies across time and from culture to culture (e.g. in PNG, traditional women do not cover their breasts but everywhere it is considered indecent to show the shape of your hips and thighs).  Fancy saying that a woman, to be “modest” has to cover even her face and hair - ridiculous in this country!  As if everyone doesn’t also have hair and a face.  It is also unhealthy (vitamin D problems) and restricts women from participating in many competitive sports (really, the berkini just wouldn’t cut it in competitive swimming - too much drag slowing you down). The burqa obviously has the potential to oppress women - even if that is not always the case, it is done in some parts of the world and in some families in Australia too I am sure.  HOWEVER, if the burqa or hijab is truly the choice of the woman who wears it, I believe it is completely unwarranted, over-the-top, but that is their choice.  They are hurting no one but themselves.  If I want to wear clown make up and a suit and walk down the street, I can.  Even into a bank.  So, if they want to dress up in such a foolish way - go for it.  My main concern is the few who inflict the hijab or worse, burqa, on their children, which I do think should be illegal, as it is unhealthy and limits a child’s natural activities, such as the ability to play sport and climb in a playground.

Bryan says:

11:07am | 26/05/10

Its vile on every possible level ban it now!

THOMAS says:

11:06am | 26/05/10

Thank You - Thank You - I solely agree with you

Health check says:

10:37am | 26/05/10

What most people don’t know is how dangerous the burga is to the health of those who wear it. It prevents exposure to the sun which provides much needed Vitamin D. Because of this, women in Middle Eastern regions suffer from much higher rates of cancer than those who do not wear the burqa.

So much for: “God is Great!”

Kalpesh says:

10:28am | 26/05/10

mates.. why people arguing on the same topic.. use common sense.. we want to ban for security reason.. that’s all and you know what is that..
I told you before.. this is an Australia.. why you want to wear here? you already wear a scarf in Australia, isn’t enough?

R says:

10:20am | 26/05/10

Sara I could not agree with you more on this.

No one actually stops to think that Muslim women might actually choose to wear burqas etc in accordance with their faith.

This country is all for freedom and not pushing our beliefs onto others, yet we want to push our beliefs and way of life onto muslim women because we think they are being oppressed. Maybe muslim women are looking at westerners with pity or scorn because they believe in some way western women are being oppressed.

Whatever happened to letting people live their life the way they choose? Why do some people think they always know whats best for others?

I think it all boils down to fear of the unknown. Before everyone is so quick to judge, stop for a minute and think that maybe, just maybe, these women are perfectly happy in the life they lead

Phil Miller says:

08:10am | 26/05/10

The only half understandable argument against the veil is that criminals misuse the veil to disguise their identities.  But then banning the veil is punishing the innocent for the actions of the criminal, an infinitely worse action.  The sad fact is that this “problem” does not admit a solution.  The best we can manage is to try to be tolerant, and a little bit kind.

Phil Miller says:

08:09am | 26/05/10

The only half understandable argument against the veil is that criminals misuse the veil to disguise their identities.  But then banning the veil is punishing the innocent for the actions of the criminal, an infinitely worse action.  The sad fact is that this “problem” does not admit a solution.  The best we can manage is to try to be tolerant, and a little bit kind.

Caro says:

07:54am | 26/05/10

well I have taken the time to read all of the above and as an ex detention officer I have had close dealings with these people of Islam faith some are good some are bad like all cultures, my feelings are this you came to this country for a better life so to all who come here from wherever do not bring your countries problems here we have enough of out own you have the right to pactice your faith and your culture but do not force me to follow your customs if I choose to wear shorts I am not advertising my body. 9/11 is some of the reason why western society is against Islam but then remember we of western society used the atomic bomb in WW2 to suppress Japan, by all means wear your hijab at home or in your muslim schools but follow our rules about security for my country.

Emma says:

07:44am | 26/05/10

I really dont care much for Sara’s article, and I dont care to increase my knowledge on the Muslim Faith, if i wanted to do that I’d go over to their country. Appreciation of all cultures and religions is fine. But I’m sorry, those burqa wearing women scare the crap out of me. I know its stereotypical, but I will cross the road to avoid someone wearing one, I just cant help but relate them to terrorists and suicide bombers.

Mohamed says:

07:26am | 26/05/10

Sara - I thought this was a very sensible article. I personally don’t agree with the full face covering, in my culture we call it a ‘niqaab.’ But then again - I’m also not much of a fan of mini skirts…However - everyone should be entitled to dress how they wish to.

alexisforo says:

07:00am | 26/05/10

Arabs in the middle east can wear white in 45 degree conditions but their women cannot they have to suffer wearing the whole deal in black in soaring temperatures
Can you explain this please

Its all about islam isnt it women have no choice so please help me here trying to understand what rights do you women have in islamic life

alexisforo says:

06:58am | 26/05/10

Arabs in the middle east can wear white in 45 degree conditions but their women cannot they have to suffer wearing the whole deal in black in soaring temperatures
Can you explain this please

Its all about islam isnt it women have no choice so please help me here trying to understand what rights do you women have in islamic life

Ricky says:

06:28am | 26/05/10

The Burqa is foriegn, alien & repulsive & represents the worst of a trouble making,divisive minority.Whether or not feminists want to argue this point is irrelevant as it has no place in any free western country.Many people are also unhappy about the security risk of not be able to identify someone & the double standards of allowing the wearer of a burqa into a bank, etc, but still expecting someone wearing a bike helmet to remove it before entering. Can someone explain how that is not a ridiculous example of appeasing a minority…?

All class says:

06:22am | 26/05/10

They are made to cover up because they are “butt” ugly. a lot of aussie women should be made to do it to.

robyn says:

06:06am | 26/05/10

Can’t they just wear a T shirt that says “Me Likey Burqa!” ??

Lucy says:

06:02am | 26/05/10

Talk about twisting logic!

There is nothing good about the burqua so don’t even go there.

You don’t even understand what a feminist is.

Mary says:

04:07am | 26/05/10

Sara’s suggests that only “feminists” object to the burqua. This is not at all correct and there are men and women including a large number of non-feminists from every sector of the community who object to it. In western culture, only those who don’t want to be identifed cover their heads and faces. Such as those who hold-up Banks or want to engage in other forms of criminal activity. I for one would find it difficult to engage in a conversation with anyone who had their face covered. You wouldn’t be able to see facial expressions and these can be as much a part of communicating as words. I wouldn’t know WHO I’m talking to because I can’t see them - so why would I bother talking to them or having anything to do with them in a social context? This is not about garments per se because frankly I woudn’t care less whether a woman wears a mini skirt or a caftan. This is not a debate about what is worn from the neck down but rather that the face is covered. If I can’t see a persons face then frankly I would prefer to have nothing to do with them. In actual fact I find the face covering headwear rather creepy and all it does is inspire distrust of the person.

cnei says:

02:55am | 26/05/10

Sara, your bio says it all:
“Sara Haghdoosti is a 22-year-old Iranian/Australian feminist”

Are you an Australian resident or not?
If so then why don’t you call yourself Australian?
Let’s stop this wishy washy multiculturalism in it’s tracks
All is does is further divide this society

How a so called ‘feminist’ would approve of such hideous garb for any reason, I cannot fathom. The immediate banning of the burqa will leave no doubt, no doubt whatsoever that this is not appropriate attire for a western country with modern values.  Grow up.

Lia says:

02:10am | 26/05/10

I come from a Muslim family. My female cousins were ALL forced to wear the Burka - not wearing it was never an option. Sure, they could have stood their ground and opposed it (technically) but that’s not how they were raised.

As an insider, I can tell you that it’s not easy for them - they do feel out-casted, they do have moments of wishing they could blend in and not be seen for who they are first, rather than what religion they belong to.

Are all women forced in a similar way? No, not all. But we can’t sugar-coat the fact that many are. That’s not something an out-sider is privy to, a Muslim woman will not tell strangers that she feels ‘coerced’, she’ll tell you that she does it because she wants to. That’s not always 100% true.

Peni says:

01:54am | 26/05/10

I totally agree with banning burqu’s, I find them totally offensive! Surely, any muslim coming to this country knows the way people live here, in this heat, the majority of people live by the sea, they are comfortable with their bodies which God gave them, if they find it unacceptable, why come to this country.  We are all immigrants to this fantastic country, and we should be doing our best to join in and making it one country with one people and thanking our lucky stars to be born at a time when there is so much to live for, enjoying our time on earth. Just watch a bunch of children at playschool, different colours, creeds and what do they do? just enjoy each other’s company and play! we can learn a lot from them.  We have all come from different religions, practice them at home! most of them have one thing in common and that is to treat everyone as you would want to be treated, then there would be no conflict at all!  To the muslim women out there, tell your blokes to get with the times, or get lost, your in Australia now, and it is time to get dress for the weather!!!

Richard says:

01:42am | 26/05/10

It is my understanding that one must adopt an extremely literal, perhaps even embellished, interpretation of the Quran if they are to believe that they MUST wear the burka or even a head scarf.

““And say to the faithful women to lower their gazes, and to guard their private parts, and not to display their beauty except what is apparent of it, and to extend their headcoverings (khimars) to cover their bosoms (jaybs), and not to display their beauty except to their husbands, or their fathers, or their husband’s fathers, or their sons, or their husband’s sons, or their brothers, or their brothers’ sons, or their sisters’ sons, or their womenfolk, or what their right hands rule (slaves), or the followers from the men who do not feel sexual desire, or the small children to whom the nakedness of women is not apparent, and not to strike their feet (on the ground) so as to make known what they hide of their adornments. And turn in repentance to Allah together, O you the faithful, in order that you are successful”

To me, this phrase is pretty clearly saying that one should dress modestly and not show their nudity to whom it is not appropriate to do so.  I know many Muslim women who wear no facial covering of any kind and dress in a very western manner.  They seem to agree with a more moderate and modern interpretation of the Quran.  If only more women did!

Burkas, veils etc are cultural not religious items of clothing. Islamic women are NOT forced to wear them by their religion, so why do so many young Muslim women who have a western upbringing, wear the clothing of places and cultures they have never even visited?

Ian Holthouse says:

11:13pm | 25/05/10

So I can wear a mask to have official identity photographs taken. Remember one law for all, or do muslim have a special status? It is time to encourage them to go back to their wonderful homelands, where they can live the life they enjoy.

Liza says:

10:51pm | 25/05/10

I just wanted to thank you for this article. I am not Muslim, but I, too, am disgusted with the intolerant western outlook on wearing hajib. By all means, speak out against enforcing religion - ANY religion, whether it be Christianity, Islam, Wicca, whatever. But stop disrespecting people’s choices and assuming that all Muslim followers who are women must be oppressed and forced into covering up their bodies.

JUSTJ says:

10:08pm | 25/05/10

I don;t care what she says… if you want to wear the veil go and wear it and live in another country.. period. I fail to see why we should have any debate with an intolerant religion… And before any of you jump on me for this… I have been to plenty of muslim countries and they are not tolerant at all. Period.

BrisVegasDude says:

10:07pm | 25/05/10

For me, I would be happy for Muslim people to practice their traditions and faith in Australia, if (and only if) Christian people would be free to practice their traditions and faith in Saudi Arabia (the heartland of the Muslim faith). It is hypocritical for a religion which points its worship to Mecca, when in Mecca it is impossible to preach the Gospel of Christ openly, nor to even import a Bible. I think it is fair to ban the burqa until these Muslim people wake up to their own hypocrisy and start to reciprocate the freedoms in their religious heartland which they expect here in Australia.

Vie says:

09:58pm | 25/05/10

This is 2010.
We are no longer in the dark ages.
Discussing whether women should be covered head to toe with only an eye slit is bordering on obsolete and backward. Why is our modern society even contemplating prolonging such abuse against women?

Ban this outrageous confront to women immediately and let’s move on.
If Muslims want to live in a society that embraces this monstrosity then they should live in a country that welcomes it.  Australia does not.

i-ro-ny says:

09:34pm | 25/05/10

The burka is a very ugly piece of clothing. Is the idea behind it similar to the hair shirt that sinners wore in the Middle Ages? That was worn to punish the wearer for their sins - is the burka worn now to punish us for our sins?

Amber says:

09:28pm | 25/05/10

I always thought the idea of a girl being made to wear the Hijab on the day she begins to menstruate as a glaring invasion of privacy and particularly embarrassing for a child. All the surrounding men now know her innermost secret. I try to imagine it happening when I was young and am covered in a kind of shame.

jd says:

09:27pm | 25/05/10

ignorance is a disease and a factor for violence. its unfortunate but thats what australia has become. im glad i left oz and those narrow minded citizens.

mattkas says:

08:05pm | 25/05/10

Who really cares about this? Let’s not waste our energy debating a non-issue. As long as we all comply with dress standards demanded in certain situations there won’t be a problem. I recently stayed for two weeks in Bankstown NSW and spent much time in the shopping centre and local public places. In all this time I only saw one person in a burqua. Big deal! Hose it down and get a life.

NESLIHAN KUROSAWA says:

08:02pm | 25/05/10

Islam does not say that women should cover their faces to begin with, my understanding of Islam is only suggesting modest way of dressing for women and that is all. Way of dressing which is loose, comfortable as if to say that they do not get unwanted attention from the members of the “opposite sex”. Religion of Islam however to me, says keep up with the changing times, technology and education. By the way, just like most I am against the fact that a woman should cover her face to feel protected. If you ask me the point of the exercise of wearing of the burqa or the chaddor, is all about making a polit?cical statement. Just like most suggested if you want to enjoy all the rights that a man is entitled to, meaning equal rights for everyone. I find a little bit conflicting and confusing. If you want to be seperated from the world of men and the general population, then you should not ask for too much. Turkey right now is a very good example of that.  When it comes to Iran as you all know, majority of women are not wearing the burqa.  On the contrary, they are allowed to get their hair done, wear make up and wear the latest from overseas fashion,  but only in a very modest way. Best regards to your editors

Jarrod says:

07:31pm | 25/05/10

So, the law allows muslim women to wear the burqa whilst having their drivers licence photo taken? Am I, as a non muslim male, afforded that same oppurtunity to have no physical features identifiable on my licence?

EarthMuse says:

07:31pm | 25/05/10

@Norm If the law trying to be imposed stated that women who choose to cover their faces (or men for that matter!) can be required to show their face to a camera or security person/police if they are in a public place or entering a private property, that would be different. It does not infringe on their right to wear what they choose in public but also does not restrict the security concerns of public and private agents.  There’s plenty of places that require you wear shoes, shirt, etc for whatever reasons (safety, acceptability) so this is no different. In my mind, if a private property chooses not to allow persons with covered faces to enter, that is their right (i.e. banks, embassies, etc) and the law should in fact uphold this. To say that you cannot step outside your own personal property in dress of your choosing goes too far.

@various others I have both seen/spoken to women wearing hajib and burka in Australia as well as spent some time in Pakistan and spoken to women there about this custom. Even in Pakistan, a strongly Muslim culture, the level of cover that a woman wears is often chosen by the woman. I will not deny that it is sometimes influenced by family or community, but the majority of the women I spoke with (some in hajib, some in burka, some in neither) made their own choices based on what they were personally comfortable. Some did admit to making concessions on their mode of dress for their husbands, but I’d be willing to bet there’s a fair few Australian women who don’t wear the same clothes after being in a partnership as they used to when they were 20-something and single and that part of it has to do with how their partner prefers them to dress in public.

Trish W. says:

07:26pm | 25/05/10

Oh yeah!! And I demand my freedom of mind thought to say the burqua looks like a freak show dressed as a mail box, so there you thought police, you.

Ric says:

07:25pm | 25/05/10

Lets run this hypothesis than…... The ‘Leaders’ decide that the ’ burqa’  is no longer required to be worn by the woman who follow their ‘faith’... So in view of this new ruling… will you now stop wearing the burqa????

pete1782 says:

06:52pm | 25/05/10

Yes they can, not sure about a passport, but I work in insurance and have seen many women in licence photos wearing burqas. You also have to look at the bigger picture. When it comes to the catholic church females have to cover themselves completely when they become nuns bar their face. In orthodox religions such as Greek, Serbian, Russian etc their custom is for the ministers to pretty much completely cover up.

Also if this is a debate about being forced to wear something they may not want to, well everyday when I go to work I have to wear a tie and a collared shirt and if I don’t I have to go home. Am i being oppressed because I’m not allowed to work unless I wear what others make me?

And I’m not a Muslim or have any ethnic background at all, just pointing out some other arguments that isn’t along the terms of “it’s un-Australian” which is what people come up with when they don’t seem to have any idea what the subject is.

CJ says:

06:47pm | 25/05/10

I would think that true feminists would gladly give up their ‘right’ to wear the burqa if it meant that the minority of women who are being forced to wear it (by men) were liberated from what is widely regarded as a symbol of opression (at least outside of Afghanistan).

bluesky says:

06:46pm | 25/05/10

I applaud your cogent viewpoint and well written peice. However, it remains that the veil *is* a symbol being used by evil men in many countries to dehumanise women.  Countries where female rape victims are still being imprisoned or stoned to death. In these places, the hajib IS a tool of oppression and seperation, and a means of exclusion from meaningful life social and otherwise, in a wider community. Just because YOU havent had that experience, doesnt mean others are not having it right now, go ask the 50 or so women in jail for being raped in Pakistan ror the acid face victims of Saud and Iran. These women did not have the choice. Do not have the protection of law as we do here in Australia.
On the security issue of full face veils, and while I am all for choice, rights and the responsibility that comes with those rights, it remains that if it is demanded by Australian law that I remove my helmet before going to a bank or filling up at a petrol station, then so too should you be required to remove your full face veils. Its not about feminism or sexism or religion its simply about security and a show of acceptance that it is a mutually agreed upon set of laws that govern our society, not personal or individual choices. So if you equally demand the right of protection under law which I am sure you do in this country as in this counry, you can do so, then the responsibility of law and TO law follows swiftly behind it.

Jarrod says:

06:14pm | 25/05/10

Can a muslim woman be photographed for her Australian Drivers Licence or Australian Passport whilt weraing the burqa?

Stephen says:

05:55pm | 25/05/10

Jay says: 04:48pm | 25/05/10 - Stated perfectly,
If you wear the burqa you are reinforcing your religions view that women are 2nd class, the men sure know this. And if you had a clue about Australia, you’d know that woman’s rights are very important and we aren’t all going to stand around while your religion creates a new 2nd class of citizens.

SuperDave says:

05:43pm | 25/05/10

Personally, I feel lucky to live somewhere that people can wear what they like - I don’t want to be told how to dress. My wife finds the budgie smugglers that I wear to the beach offensive but does that stop me from wearing them? Hell no! That would be un-australian if you ask me. Sara, I reckon you and I should march down the street side by side for our right to wear what we like - you in your overly modest burqa - me in my immodest budgie smugglers… bugger the wowsers and what they think! Now THAT is the Australia I want to live in…

Sandra says:

05:42pm | 25/05/10

@Alex, I have seen women wearing a burqa. One summer, it was at least 40 degrees, and this one woman wearing a black burqa, you could hear her panting, struggling to breathe in the heat, all the while her husband was wearing shorts, a t-shirt and sandals.  I wasn’t allowed to speak to her, as I was wearing comfortable cotton short sleeved dress, and my hair was pinned up in loose pony tail.  I wouldn’t have been allowed to talk to her, and even if I had, she would have just spouted the party line of ‘modesty’. Funny thing is how the line has been twisted to have men say it means be covered from head to toe. That’s not what it says.  “Let the veil of modesty be upon mens eyes.”  That means MEN should be the ones to avert their eyes.  But weak men want their women weaker.

Lauren says:

05:41pm | 25/05/10

This issue sucks.

The fact that there are some Australians that want to ban certain expressions of fashion is disturbing in itself.

The actual burqa issue is complex and confusing also, as shown by the heated debates following the article.

I don’t ‘get’ the burqa. I don’t get the idea that women in Islam are responsible for being the sensible and controlled sex.

I don’t get the notion that the entire male population needs to be tamed, distracted and blinded to the female body because of their urges. I don’t get why muslim women are responsible for men’s thoughts and actions because of their flowing hair or the delicate skin of their neck drive the muslim blokes wild.

I know next to nothing about Islam, most of Australians know nothing about it, so we don’t have the right to tell women how to dress just because were not used to it.

kit says:

05:40pm | 25/05/10

Fabulous article Sara. Living in the Middle East and checking in on the Australian value system through posts such as these makes me shudder. In a country as young and diverse as Australia it saddens me that we can be so easily brainwashed by media while our population is so beautifully, culturally diverse. I used to think Australia was a cultural melting pot and not narrow-minded, after living in the UAE for 2 years and living my life amongst friends and colleagues from all corners of the globe who appreciate differences and treasure the similarities in religious backgrounds I’m not so sure….

Natasha says:

05:38pm | 25/05/10

60 Minutes did the same thing on Sunday - started taking about the Burqa and then went on to the hijab. To me they are two different kinds of things - the hijab - I don’t mind those who wear this, but the Burqa fully scares me when I am out shopping, rounding a corner and come face to face with someone wearing this, I really am scared, it is so foreign to me and so alien to my life here in Brisbane.

Amber says:

05:34pm | 25/05/10

They should be banned and no amount of desperate rationalising by this author changes the fact that the overwhelming majority of these women are repressed.

Marlen says:

05:21pm | 25/05/10

I find it amazing that many of the respondents on this topic want Muslims to integrate, and become more “Australian”, yet reading some of the above would make anyone attempting to intergrate very cynical and cautious. Will “they” ever really be accepted, or is it easier to simply treat all those who look different to the “typical” Australian with suspicion and disdain? Do we really enjoy keeping those that look different or speak with a different accent at an arms length, and furthermore treating them all with a general view of suspicion…I’m not sure a fair go exists for all “new”  Australians these days!

Stefan says:

05:15pm | 25/05/10

Wearing face coverings in public is offensive to any intelligent person. I support a ban and would vote that way.

Nathan H says:

05:15pm | 25/05/10

The ban on the veil saves women from themselves. Often when police attend a domestic violence situation, the woman sticks up for her abuser. In this case, it’s her culture/religion. Of course it’s sexist and oppressive. However, just because someone doesn’t know any doesn’t mean we should leave them to suffer.

For the record, I don’t think anyone can save someone from themselves. However, we’re on our way to banning cigarettes, seatbelts are mandatory and Lewis Hamilton can’t do a burnout. Add this one to the list!

concerned says:

05:04pm | 25/05/10

I don’t have a problem with women dressing modestly or covering their bodies, or even their hair.  What I have a problem with is covering the face? Why do they feel the need to do this?
Not being able to see someone’s face means you can’t see their expressions, which are a huge part of non-verbal communication. Essentially, covering your face makes you unable to communicate or engage with anyone properly.  You are essentially invisible.  Why would anyone choose (if they do in fact choose as this article suggests) to do this? I just don’t understand it. 
Whichever way you look at it, it still smacks of oppression to me, whether or not it is the woman’s ‘choice’ to wear it (altough I’m a little doubtful of her freedom to make any other choice).

wendy says:

05:03pm | 25/05/10

This mode of dress simply does not look right on an Australian street and quite frankly we never saw these things here ten years ago! why come to a society like Australia’s and then walk around as though the very sight of you will cause men to behave like animals…? is this how they see Australians…? what about integration!
Burqas are not a fashion trend, like mini skirts, they are a symbol of an out-dated mind set, of an oppressive culture that belongs elsewhere in the world and states simply that muslim women believe they are in danger from men everywhere. This mode of dress is not Australian - simple as that.

Alex says:

04:57pm | 25/05/10

How many of u have actually seen someone wearing a burqa?..... I live according to the statistics in an area that has muslims everywhere and i can honestly say i cant remember the last time i seen someone wearing a burqa. How many of u have actually seen a woman wearing a burqa in Australia?, how many of u have actually spoken to a woman wearing a burqa?
Its funny how most if not all these comments are coming from people that have never actually seen someone in person wearing the burqa….... P.S. the majority of converts to the Islamic religion are females, yes i know they are brain washed then convert, yes they are forced to convert, yes they are oppressed etc etc lol must be in fashion i guess.

Moi says:

04:56pm | 25/05/10

So you’re a Muslim feminist but the rest of us are just feminists?? As you have acknowledged for yourself, but strangely not for the rest of us, there are differences among women and feminists.  Feminists are not a homogenous group.  The “sisterhood” as you refer to it is made up of many and varied political and ethical positions.  If you identify as a feminist then you should understand the basic principle of all kinds of feminism: DIVERSITY. Don’t lump me in!

Wok says:

04:52pm | 25/05/10

The article is plain silly.  Ban the burqa.  Muslim women are treated as second class citizens and this is a clear sign.  Religion is stupid when it gets to this.

Jess says:

04:51pm | 25/05/10

I would like to know why a woman would choose to wear the burqa and if it states in the Karan that I good Muslim woman should wear one?

Richie says:

04:34pm | 25/05/10

I’ve seen many women in the burqa walking around but never actually seen a woman in a full face burqa working. Let me guess, these women do not work for religious reasons and live off welfare? Islam is a divisive religion, it claims that a Muslim is superior in the eyes of god to a non-Muslim and says death to all infidels. This has no place in Australia or other Western countries which are not built on any of these values. Just look at the state of the majority of Islamic countries to see how successful Islam is to a countries success.

Quixychick says:

04:24pm | 25/05/10

Pardon my ignorance here, but I have yet to understand why it is only the women that have to be covered up.  On a holiday to Phuket a few years ago I watched a couple:  man laid by pool wearing Speedos while his partner sat in full dress with a veil covering her face, constantly mopping at the slit where her eyes were.  For hours.  In the hot, humid weather.  For me, it smacked of “ownership” of the woman and portrayed that her comfort did not have as much value as a man’s.  Effectively, a very bold statement that men can wear whatever they want, women have to be subservient <—not a Western cultural value.  Cultural diversity is about respecting other cultures up to the point where a practice offends the culture of the whole… it would be interesting to see how a true, democratic vote on this would come out.

BurkaNoWorka4Me says:

04:16pm | 25/05/10

Muslims don’t go to brothels? Really? Sanctimonious twaddle- go live in Saudi Arabia if you don’t like alcohol or women as equals.

Elaine says:

04:00pm | 25/05/10

My only concern is the lace cover over the eyes like the ones women were forced to wear in Afghanistan when the Taliban were in power.  I think that should be banned as it can (and I believe) does affect the eyesight and also their side vision.  Apart from that if Muslim women want to cover up that is their business but they must be prepared to show their faces for proof of identity and providing it is a free choice they not being told by some man that they must cover themselves from head to foot.

xwqe says:

03:57pm | 25/05/10

Sara why don’t you wear the buqa here in Australia for one year.
Then come back and do a follow up.

Maurice says:

03:46pm | 25/05/10

Some inner city Melbourne suburbs are starting to look like downtown Kabul.  When exactly did Australians decide they wanted to import burqa culture? Because that’s what it is. It’s not religious. It is cultural.

I find it offensive that migrants would be given the impression from Australian immigration that they can migrate here and still behave like they are in Afghanistan or Somalia. I thought that’s what they were leaving?

Now we are all meant to be politically correct, hail ‘multiculturalism’ and just accept it. No thanks. Enough is enough. Ban the burqa and start educating our newcomers about the culture and values of Australia. If they don’t like it then maybe Saudi Arabia is a better option.

hellonathan says:

03:44pm | 25/05/10

Any religious garb announces to the world “I am a religious turkey and I believe in nonsensical jibber jabber.”
All religious people should be forced to wear such an obvious warning.

Linci says:

03:42pm | 25/05/10

Can we not just say if you want to come and live in Australia you can not wear the Burquas, You must be able to speak english, respect that Australia is a Christain country and so not protest about our Religious beliefs and celebrations such as xmas. If you can not agree to this, then another country may suite you better.

Bobie 753 says:

03:37pm | 25/05/10

As a woman visiting Arab countries I CANNOT dress the way I am used to ...and I have been and the guide is telling you what you can and cannot wear!
So to me it isn’t an issue of religion/religious beliefs….In Rome do as the Romans! (dixit Julius Caesar)

Jezabelle says:

03:34pm | 25/05/10

Do women wearing burqa’s ever work in boutiques or homewares shops, Myer, DJ’s etc.
Just wondering, as I have never seen one myself.
Are people not employing women wearing this style of clothing? Mmmm!!
I wonder why?
Perhaps they prefer the ‘sluts’ in miniskirts.? Insulting label for a young Australian woman really.

Terry says:

03:29pm | 25/05/10

I think a more interesting debate might be why we find covering the face offensive and why we mainly identify someone with their appearance. It is our culture but maybe it isn’t such a good thing. I think what is a good thing is that this could challenge people to re-assess the way we look at people and the way we interact. I don’t think this will happen but if people could look beyond their own prejudices/culture/religion it would be a good thing.

BB says:

03:25pm | 25/05/10

LOL! “As a Muslim feminist” - what an oxymoron. If a Muslim woman doesn’t wear a burqa or hijab in Saudi Arabian suburbs she is sworn at and spat on by other women to bring her back into line. Not to mention that women aren’t allowed out of the house unless chaperoned by a male relative, and not allowed to drive cars. So enjoy the freedoms that the non-Islamic WEST provide for you “Muslim feminist” ... please let us know when you will be making hajj and what you will be wearing!

ryan says:

03:12pm | 25/05/10

Utter rubbish.

No problem whatsoever with the hijab.  All religious people are stupid, but if that is your choice, so be it.

But the burqua and the nijab are both disgusting and oppressive.  As humans we communicate 90% through non verbal means.

Forcing a sex to cover their faces means that they cannot communicate with the general person on the street, and turns them into possessions.

It shoudl be banned, there are already laws present which prevent people from blackening their faces, or wearing a balaclava

dw says:

03:10pm | 25/05/10

perhaps everyone should have the right to wear a burqa - but noone has the right to force another to wear a burqa.

If the burqa is a symbol of oppression, removing the symbol will not necessarily remove the oppression.

Steph O'brien says:

03:08pm | 25/05/10

Wow - judging from the number of blogs on this subject, it sure is a matter of contention.  Probably my age, but I cannot help feeling irritated when I see a woman out shopping with just her eyes showing.  It is probably a culture thing, i.e. looks odd in Oz.  Yes I know, my bigotry is showing.

Patrick says:

03:07pm | 25/05/10

I think you’re approaching this from far too docile an angle Sara..

If any government was even thinking about telling me I wasn’t allowed to wear, say, a wife beater and thongs, because too many Australians wear them and they obviously can’t integrate into society while still brandishing the emblems of their sexist lifestyle, I’d be pretty pissed off. I wouldn’t just be writing blogs about it, I’d be beating my chest in a crowd of people, going to give a bit of Cronulla to them pollies etc etc.

It’s utterly insane that people who are meant to be in positions of responsibility are telling citizens of their country what they can and can not wear, and even more insane that people in other countries are saying “Yeah, that sounds good.”

Imagine if we tried to ban the yamaka or that stupid necktie thing that Catholic priests wear, the outrage would be utterly stupendous from all corners of the globe, but somehow because of “terrorism concerns” that a bomb could be hidden under a burqa, France has managed to sneak it in somehow. Just how the hell is it any politicians business what ANYONE wears, unless it’s Denis Ferguson in a Teletubby costume at a playground..

Andrew says:

03:03pm | 25/05/10

Of course wearing the burqa is culturally determined, as is shown by the miniscule percentage of women wearing it in non-Muslim cultures, compared to those who wear it in Muslim cultures. Likewise, bikini-wearing is culturally determined in Western cultures. Do people follow fashion in one form or another? Almost without exception. That is human nature. It is one of the ways we demonstrate that we are to some degree a superorganism rather than a collection of individuals.

Cissaro says:

02:53pm | 25/05/10

Someone else using the word “feminist” as a dirty word to describe a few haters out there. Many of whom would NOT identify as a feminist. Worse, the author continues to identify herself as one, while decrying what they apparently say about burquas. You’re either in that boat, Lady, or you’re not. But please stop bandying around the most common hate buzz word today (i.e. “feminist”) just to pull readers and get your opinion read. Your “feminist” Sisters are likely offended, and not by anything you choose or choose not to wear.

wake up says:

02:48pm | 25/05/10

There are a few things that those who have recently come to our country, and apparently some born here, need to understand.

This idea of Australia being a multicultural community has served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity. As Australians, we have our own culture, our own society, our own language and our own lifestyle.

Yes that means no burqa’s.

I’m sick of the politically correct socialists who label everyone racist for wanting to ensure we don’t turn into another UK or France with ludicrous accommodations being made for the Muslim residents. If Muslims find this offensive then they should relocate elsewhere.

loui says:

02:43pm | 25/05/10

Sara,
Those who insist on wearing a burqa for whatever reason should be encouraged to immigrate to a country that fully endorses and encourages the use. Australia does not. Australians do not. Those who do not wish to live in Australia and assimilate have the right to leave.

F F R says:

02:27pm | 25/05/10

It is time for the burqa to be banned and it is time for new Australians to assimilate or leave.

Australian citizenship is being handed out like candy yet we don’t understand the importance of assimilation until it is too late. I’m sure all the home grown terrorists in the UK and the USA loved the ‘multiculturalism’ mantra. 

Multiculturalism - the demand that all arriving people retain their culture at the expense of the prevailing culture - is just a slippery slope to societal breakdown and the burqa is part of non assimilation.

“History shows that no nation can survive the tension, conflict, and antagonism of two or more competing languages and cultures. It is a blessing for an individual to be bilingual; however, it is a curse for a society to be bilingual.”

Let’s do something about this so we don’t encourage a divisive society just because we are told by the government we have to be ‘multicultural at all costs’.

Pal says:

02:16pm | 25/05/10

Keep the head coverings, who really cares?? I’m quite tires of being required to remove my OPEN face motorcycle helmet each time i enter a
service station, bank, fast food outlet.. Maybe i should simply wear a burqa
under my open face helmet, then no obvious need to remove the helmet.
Imagine all the suipport I would get from the burqa support groups!!

cybacaT says:

02:07pm | 25/05/10

Bring on a ban - this form of ugly, divisive, secretive and insecure clothing has no place in modern society.

Kirstie says:

01:51pm | 25/05/10

The burqa is not compatible with Western values, end of story. It does nothing but makes women who wear it invisible and meaningless, like they are not even there. In our culture it is extremely important that we see body language, facial expressions, and it’s just a basic thing to wish that you are able to see who you’re interacting with. It saddens me that an intelligent woman like Sara would condone such an incredibly backward and frankly, barbaric “custom”.

thinkaboutit says:

01:48pm | 25/05/10

I personally think making females wear any type of clothing is oppressive and as such we should ban women from wearing ANY clothing at all!

Arthur says:

01:46pm | 25/05/10

oh,
I think the ban on burqua’s should extend to men also not just women

Frank says:

01:45pm | 25/05/10

The key issue raised by the burqa and the niqab is the relation of the wearer to civil society rather than any religious significance that might be attributed to these items of apparel.

My understanding of the religious context is that the Qur’an requires both men and women to dress modestly. If modesty is about moderation in dress then the burqa and the niqab are exercises in immoderation.

There is also the perception that the burqa and the niqab transfer responsibility for the bad behaviour of men to women.

The covering of the face presents problems not only in relation to the interaction of the wearer with public agencies and commercial enterprises but also more generally in relation to the wearer’s participation in civil society when the person has become a non-person by the covering of the face.

Dealing with this issue may initially be done by education and debate. However if change does not occur we should follow the lead of the Europeans and move by decrees.

Vcitor H Pigott says:

01:44pm | 25/05/10

Unlike Iran, Australia is a democracy which permits its citizens to wear what they choose within the bounds of decency.  Jews wear their skull caps, Christians their crosses, Orthodox their robes.  If Muslim women choose to wear the burqa that’s their right and one which we should respect . To think otherwise would be discriminatory.  Given our summer climate I personally would have thought that a full face and body garment would be uncomfortable. But that’s my thinking and as a Christian I have no conception of what it means to be a Muslim.  Yet, there are times when the wearing of the Burqua could have negative consequences for the entire community.  For example, on photo licenses, at Airports and walking through large shopping centers.  It could also be an outright hindrance for its wearer in participating in certain sports.  Western Governments need to engage in a balancing exercise in which they consider the needs of the individual burqua wearer against the needs of the community.  While I see no reason to ban the burqua, I do envisage situations where it should be temporarily removed for reasons of security.  I would also argue that Muslim husbands might consider allowing their wives “time off” from Burqua wearing for reasons of safety, comfort and inconvenience.  Debate on this issue should be engaged with sensitivity in which we consider carefully the needs of each party.

Mango says:

01:42pm | 25/05/10

They should let someone publish a counter-point to this pro-Islam puff piece.

davelightsavings says:

01:31pm | 25/05/10

Ironically, I have always found it rude to wear sunnies as it hides the person’s eyes. It’s ridiculous - people even where them when it is cloudy. At least with the burqa, you can see the eyes when you communicate. I think that if the use of the burqa is regulated, sunglasses should also be regulated to perhaps just at the beach and maybe the cricket.

Arthur says:

01:22pm | 25/05/10

Sure,
islamic women might choose to wear a burqua, but they choose to wear one beacuse they’ve been brought up to beleive that they would be disgracing themselves as women to show any skin. Now that is male oppression, is it not? Feminists are right to oppose the burqua because of what it stands for.

Simmo says:

01:18pm | 25/05/10

I for one am not against the veil if it’s a choice.

Given the amount of flies in summer, I reckon it would be a great way to stop them bugging you…

Perhaps western society would accept them more if they had designer label motifs on them or came in funky colours…

vic says:

01:11pm | 25/05/10

Is the author honestly that STUPID that she can’t see that neither extreme is good?  As long as it’s the woman’s choice, not something CULTURAL (it is cultural, not religious) or something being forced on them by a backwards husband,  I have no issue with what they wear.
That being said, I can’t see any woman willingly wearing a head to toe burqua in Australia in the middle of summer.

Jeff says:

01:03pm | 25/05/10

To cover the face in this manner is to dis-engage and belittle Deaf or hard of hearing people (of any creed, race and religon) who rely on facial expressions and or lip reading as the basis of their communication.  Any group who knowingly places any impediment in the way of a disabled person in conducting their life is rightly / justly castigated.  It shows a high level of disrespect to Deaf and hard of hearing people. The wearing of face covering devices such as this falls into the same category and as such I have no intention of interacting with people who do this, A) because it is very difficult and B) due to a feeling of distrust in their genuineness.

Marianne says:

12:39pm | 25/05/10

I disagree. Muslim women say it’s an expression of their faith, but my muslim friends tell me that it doesn’t say anywhere in the quran that women have to cover up, and no one in my friends’ family covers up their hair or face. Covering up is a cultural thing, not a religious thing.

And another thing that is so ridiculous about it, is that when women are asked why they wear it their response is because they don’t want to tempt men, or sexually arouse them or whatnot. Do they really think that their faces or hair is what would arouse a man? Maybe that’s the case back in Iran or Pakistan or wherever, but in Western society, men are not aroused by hair or faces, because they see them all the time, every time they go out in public. Do they think western men have permanent stiffies, because the women don’t cover up?

And regarding making children cover up, is that to protect them from paedophiles? Or is it true like my muslim friends have told me that covering up has become a fashion statement, in which case it’s pointless anyway, because the original intent was to avoid attention by covering up, but by making the coverings colourful and ‘cool’ looking, they are drawing attention to themselves.

How could a non muslim ever have a normal convo with someone whose face is covered? It makes it impossible to read their facial expressions, and so removes the most important non-verbal communication aspect in a conversation, so it ensures that muslim women only talk to other muslim women, and Australians won’t talk to them, because it’s too difficult.

Ian says:

12:31pm | 25/05/10

While I have no problem with the burqa itself, the problem as stated before is that many Islamic followers will righteously defend there need to wear what there faith demands .... thats fine. But many Islamic followers, even those of your highest ranks (Priests, leaders) will slam what Australian culture allows us to do. Whether it be women walking around in bikini ro women showing off too much underwear in a mini-skirt. If Islam wants to be taken seriously in Australia then Islam needs to become more tolerant of cultural differences between Islamic countries and our own.

Rick says:

12:29pm | 25/05/10

Your comparison of the freedom to have or not an abortion and freedom to wear or not a veil is just ridiculous and disgusting. Terminating life and covering yourself or not for whatever reason is not the same.

You are probably right about some women choosing to wear it voluntarily but c’mon, you and all of us know it, that’s a very small minority. Who do you think you’re fooling? Or is it just wanting to generate polemic for a mediocre article to look good?

Frances says:

12:28pm | 25/05/10

A person’s face is their identity.  I believe you are taking away a persons identity with a burqa.  Cover up as much as you like but a persons face should always be uncovered - for their benefit and for everyone around them.  It’s who we are - be proud of what God/Allah/Buddha.. made you; it’s not something to hide away.

Ric says:

12:26pm | 25/05/10

Sara,

Excuse me but isn’t a Muslim feminist an oxymoron??

Craig says:

12:14pm | 25/05/10

This is a stupid knee jerk reaction piece. I completely agree that this type of dress is oppressive against women. What you may not understand is as a society we have worked long & hard to remove this type of behaviour and more towards equality. Previously we had the same conditions on women in behaviour and dress (albeit in slightly different get up, but with much the same purpose) imposed by the Christians. As a society we have moved forward away from this, why should we now allow any part of our community to move backwards?, for any religion? I would highly suggest you (the media) stop getting your knickers in a knot ever time something remotely Islam is mentioned. The Musi this, Musi that is tiresome and maybe look at the bigger picture.

Graham says:

12:13pm | 25/05/10

The person calling a woman in a short skirt a slut would probably be a muslim man. In my experience, separation and suppression based on gender doesn’t make for more virtuous men, quite the opposite in fact.
As for non muslim women able to convert to Islam, that’s true. But you’ll find you’re not as free as you think you are if you try and convert away from Islam. Sara, your freedom is an illusion.

Jacob M says:

12:08pm | 25/05/10

When what you are wearing puts fear into others , then you should think of another option on your clothing choice. This is not a Muslim country, where the burqa is apart of everyday garb. Wear it in the privacy of your home. I think the whole outfit would be hot uncomfortable in a country like Australia. It’s defiantly not an attractive look but I think that my be the whole point of insecure Muslim men wanting women to wear.

Michael says:

12:06pm | 25/05/10

We’re not allowed to wear bike helmets and balaclavas in banks or other such areas; so should it be with the niqab and burka. It’s harder to enforce with the burka as it is a one piece outfit, while the niqab can be lifted. In other public areas it should be allowed, but then so should public expressions of disgust at this symbol of oppression be allowed, even if directed at the wearer.

Sara, it’s easy to be a feminist in a Western Society, isn’t it? You are wrong though if you think that most people who call the burka or niqab oppressive are feminists. Feminists should protest against these items, but for the most part they have shown a markedly supine response to Islamic misogyny, fearing the accusation of “islamophobia” (a mental disease, the defining characteristic of which is to be accused of having it) or racism, more than they fear accusations of hypocrisy.

Hamish says:

11:58am | 25/05/10

I don’t like the Burqa or Niqab. The fact is it is an oppressive cultural practice (more cultural or even fashionable than religious) designed to portray women as sexually dangerous (by extension agents of evil and avarice) and act as a symbol of their subservience. To argue otherwise is patently ridiculous.

However, it cannot be banned in public. This would simply be a form of reverse oppression. Obviously individual companies and shopkeepers, etc, should (and I imagine already do) have the right to refuse entry to anyone who obscures their face. This is in a similar vein to motorcycle helmets, balaclavas, etc. The issue for businesses is that there would undoubtedly be a massive outcry from the multiculturalism industry. In Victoria (where I’m from) it may even breach the Racial and Religious Tolerance Act (otherwise known as the removal of free speech act).

Wearing the Burqa is a practice that should horrify most decent Australians, but it is not something that should be banned. After all, someone wearing a Burqa only infringes the wearer’s right to social inclusion, it doesn’t affect us in any way.

Jane says:

11:43am | 25/05/10

I was driven from school to the hospital once by a habit wearing Nun. Her side vision was impaired and, with a couple of close calls,  it was one of the most frightening drives I have ever taken.

So, for safety and security reasons I feel the burqa should go the same way as Nuns habits - right out the door.

Harquebus says:

11:13am | 25/05/10

We should be attacking religion. It is a curse on mankind. Once relegated to the lunatic fringe where it belongs, the world will most definitely be a better place.

Radical Chick says:

11:09am | 25/05/10

I am a feminist and I am against the burqa or face veil. That has no connection to women’s rights….even though I believe using this is akin to say…I want to be oppressed. You can’t really make that claim with any reliability.
The other reason is practical. You can’t enter a bank wearing a Motorcycle headgear or a balaclava so to my mind what is good for the goose is good for the gander. It is a religious gear but that is far beside the point. Australia is really a secular country so religious concerns are not relevant.

Anjuli says:

10:44am | 25/05/10

I don’t know how any woman could wear a Burqa except in a sandstorm ,it has to be unhealthy, think of all the dirt it picks up as they walk around .It limits the wearer field of sight which is not safe and as for walking into a bank every one else has to tolerate being made to feel nervous just so that the wearer wants to make a statement.If they want to wear the scarf that is up to them but the burqa I think not .

Bruno says:

10:26am | 25/05/10

Sara focuses her frustration on the idea of a ban of the face veil in Australia or other Western countries but not on the symbolic significance of the face veil, that is a shame but entirely understandable. Justifying the second class status of women based on antiquated religious dogma is much harder to do that making superficial claims of autonomy and personal agency. One has to ask, how much autonomy and free to you have when your follow the (supposed) prescriptions of a God. So my advice is to grow up and have the courage to use your own understanding, that is of course if the mullahs, imams give you that chance.

That why many progressive muslim women and groups support a ban, they understand well that in the west it is not an issue of personal choice to dress how you like, but about challenging and reducing the influence of Islamists and islamist ideology within migrant communities and the broader society at large.

6c legs says:

10:19am | 25/05/10

When the men of Muslim faith start wearing bags over their heads whenever they’re in public, then maybe this issue can be discussed, equally.

Because until then this issue will never be satisfactorily resolved.  But i’m sure that there are men on both sides that prefer it this way . . .

Markus says:

10:00am | 25/05/10

Another article jumping to the defense of the burqa in a faux outrage, that within three sentences is suddenly talking about the hijab.
I can understand how you could so easily mistake the two (it’s not like it’s your religion or anything), but try to keep up.

There has been no talk anywhere of banning the hijab.
The only item discussed is the burqa, as in the full length veil that completely covers one’s face.

At best, the burqa is culturally offensive in western countries (refusing to show your face to people you are talking to is pure rudeness).
At worst, it is a security issue in some areas in the same way that a motorcycle helmet or a balaclava would be (banks, service stations).

There is no requirement to wear one in the Quran (it is not even mentioned), and most Muslim women choose not to wear one anyway, finding a hijab more than sufficient.

As for the banning of the hijab by FIFA, this was announced as a safety precaution, and the only Muslim country that has had any issue with it is Iran.
If the requirement is to cover your hair, for the purpose of a soccer match could this not be done with a headgear/skullcap? See Peter Cech.

King Tutting says:

09:46am | 25/05/10

All are welcome here,  bring your cooking, music and dancing but everything else leave at the door.

fehowarth says:

09:41am | 25/05/10

I am curious about the number and type of women who wear burqas in Australia.  The answer to this question is probably a very few.

Luke says:

09:11am | 25/05/10

I have no trouble with the burqa… so long as the women who wear them can understand that maybe a policemen might ask them to remove it… in private if they wish…
Its not to be rude… they just might have some questions for them…

Bitten says:

09:02am | 25/05/10

It’s about the fact that we can’t see your face. Our culture teaches practices such as removing headwear and sunglasses when going indoors or being introduced to people. I was taught it was beyond bad manners to speak to someone while wearing your sunglasses. We have cultural beliefs too, you know. I know they’re not as valid or important as Muslim cultural beliefs, your beliefs are so very much more important than Australian culture and beliefs. So yes, by all means, wear it, I don’t think it makes you ‘oppressed; or ‘abused’ or ‘brain-washed’. I do however think it makes you rude and arrogant - you’re unwilling to acknowledge or respect the culture of another country. You may like to note when I travel to Muslim nations, I cover my hair out of respect for the local culture. Makes you and I quite different I suppose.

Old Salt says:

08:57am | 25/05/10

Congratulations Sara for writing an article from a position you obviously know about.  It is well written and makes complete sense to me.  From my view is that women and men have the right to wear what they choose, and the burqa is one of these things.  It appalls me to hear comments like Super D saying we should ban all face coverings, why Super D, whats the issue? I think we should ban all hats because i can’t tell if someone is bald or not, or scarves because i can’t see your neck.