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Faulkner tells: How Labor must fight to survive

Malcolm Farr

by Malcolm Farr

10 Jun 06:00am

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Filed under: John Faulkner, Labor Party, Parliament, Politics

200 comments

John Faulkner last night raised an issue which is undoing the authority of the ALP and the Liberal Party, and turning voters to alternatives which have thrived over the past three years.

Faulkner, who would not have spoken out in his Wran Lecture address had he not reached a painful decision that criticism was necessary, identified this issue as a failed commitment to party democracy.

He is prouder of the internal fights he lost than of the fact that these days fights of those dimensions never happen in the 21st century Australian Labor Party.

In the speech, he said:

A party culture where passionate advocates and enthusiastic community activists are seen as a hindrance to the so-called real business of the ALP has seen young voters desert Labor.

The retreat from genuine internal debate is stunting the success and development of both major parties, but none more so than the ALP.

Labor must face the reality that the last federal government which tolerated an element of public squabbling among members over serious issues was the one led by John Howard.

Howard promoted the “broad church” cliché while impeding the promotion of partyroom rebels and rewarding those who crossed to his brand of Liberal Party.

However, dissenters did not lose preselection and they were allowed to speak out in public, and to the Prime Minister himself. Petro Georgiou, Russell Broadbent and Judi Moylan might not have won every debate but Howard once told me, “I lost a few myself”.

Under Tony Abbott there has been a tightening of control over Coalition MPs, but Malcolm Turnbull, Mal Washers and others can still put forward an argument for a counter policy.

It’s the Labor Party where the idea of dissent, and of discussion until argument is exhausted, has almost completely disappeared.

Not only has the opportunity for public debate been largely eliminated, so has the passion for such debate in a party Faulkner said was run by “managers”.

He told this story in his speech of overhearing a member of Young Labor explaining a recruitment strategy: “Today’s activists - tomorrow’s leaders”.

Said the senator: “I don’t blame the individual for being absorbed into a party culture that treats activism as a temporary phase on the way to the ‘real’ work of entering professional politics.

But I utterly reject the implication that our party is only attractive to to those wit the life goal of becoming parliamentarians…

Rather than `today’s activists—tomorrow’s leaders’, I would say that ``today’s activists—tomorrow’s activists better represents the party I joined and the party I believe we must be.

The party we must be to represent and and help those Australians who most desperately need a government guided by the principles of making life better for working Australians

.

And I think it is now clear, the party we must be if Labor is to endure another century.

Read the full text of the Wran Lecture here.

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200 comments

Show oldest | newest first

    • TimB says:

      06:12am | 10/06/11

      I agree with the article Mal, we all know the ALP has little tolerance for dissent. But I must query your opening sentence:

      “John Faulkner last night raised an issue which is undoing the authority of the ALP and the [strong[Liberal Party, and turning voters to alternatives which have thrived over the past three years.”

      This article is about the ALP. It’s their problem. According to the polls, much of the vote turning away from the ALP is headed right for the Coalition.

      So why have you included the Liberals in your opening sentence?

      Reply

    • nihonin says:

      07:17am | 10/06/11

      Can’t have a sycophant say Labor’s having trouble, have to mention Liberals to deflect.

      Besides Mal knows John Faulkner would never give a speech to the Liberals.

    • TimB says:

      07:44am | 10/06/11

      Bah, tag fail. Pretend only “Liberal” party is bolded, not the rest.

    • Andy W says:

      07:57am | 10/06/11

      @ TImB

      Because the LNP’s primary vote is about the same as it was at the August election. Labor is bleeding primary votes to the Greens and the Independents.

    • Knemon says:

      08:20am | 10/06/11

      @ TimB, spot on. Nowhere does Faulkner even mention the Liberals. This is not a new problem for the ALP, I was a card carrying member about thirty years ago, I resigned after two local branch meetings in disgust, and nothing seems to have changed, if anything, it appears to be worse.

      The latest polls do appear to show disgruntled ALP voters turning to the coalition, but there is also no denying that the last federal election saw many people turn to the Greens for the very reasons Faulkner is warning about.

    • rightie leftie says:

      08:24am | 10/06/11

      oh timmy poops, did someone say bad things about your liberals that are just so unfair! the polls are just the polls pal, Faulkner is correct talking about the public and private personas of both parties, and assuming that the reason that neither major party could pull a serious majority is because of what is lacking in true debate. don’t claim that the libs are different, it isn’t true.

    • Macca says:

      08:39am | 10/06/11

      @Andy W, that is simply not true. Bob Brown’s Greens has not got above 14% in months, and has basically not risen above the 10% they got at the election in any poll since then. By contrast, the Coalition has regularly had polling results that have seen significant increases in their popularity since the election (49.9% up to 54% 2PP).

    • nossy says:

      08:46am | 10/06/11

      @TimB - rubbish TimB - voters detest Tony Abbott with a passion ! Good grief he single handlely lost the Coalition the 2010 election after he was handed a win on a plate - voters pulled up short and now we have the hung parliament. Only a credible leader of the Coalition will assure the Coalition of a victory at the 2013 election. Someone like Malcolm Turnbull for instance. “Toxic Tony” is a proven loser and to go to ANOTHER election with a proven loser would be just plain stupid of the Coalition. Turnbull was never given the chance of facing the voters - Abbott has and LOST !

    • Jim says:

      08:47am | 10/06/11

      But rightie leftie…if you read the unedited version of Faulkners story he didn’t mention Liberal at all…Mal mentioned it because he’s a Gillard fanboy.

      Toddle off now and play with your crayons.

    • TimB says:

      08:58am | 10/06/11

      “oh timmy poops, did someone say bad things about your liberals that are just so unfair!”....” Faulkner is correct talking about the public and private personas of both parties”

      Except as Knemon rightly points out, Faulkner said nothing of the sort. He’s talking about the Labor party. It’s problems. It’s failings. This is what Mal’s article reflects. It’s all about the ALP.

      So why oh why, would Mal make reference to the Liberals in the opening paragraph? It has *nothing* to do with them.

      It’s misleading. And it’s the reason why Mal has so many people accusing him of bias.

    • dovif says:

      09:02am | 10/06/11

      Andy W

      Last election was Lib 43.7, ALP 38 Green 11.7 Others 6.6

      Last Essentual polls is Lib 46 ALP 34 Green 12 Others 8, So clearly ALP votes are going to the Liberals and not others

      Last Morgan has Lib 46 ALP 36 Greens 12 Other 6, again clearly ALP lost votes are going to the Liberals

      Can you do some research before posting again

    • No 1 Rosie says:

      09:20am | 10/06/11

      I thought exactly the same thing TimB. After realizing who the author was I understood why he had to equate the Liberals in his opening sentence. It is a wonder the people are confused, jurnos like Mr Farr just can’t help themselves but find some way of including the Opposition to the downfall and misdeeds of the Labor party who had to knife the elected PM for a lying Julia Gillard because they had lost their way. A year later the Labor Party while still finding their way have now lost their moral compass.

    • Christian Real says:

      09:25am | 10/06/11

      Nossy,
      I have to agree with most that you have written in your comment…..........
      It is time to bring back Malcolm Turnbull and re-instate him as Leader.
      The drongo,the attack dog they have at the present moment is doing plently of barking and attacking, but badly lacks ideas and policies to take the party forward.
      Dr No, has got to go.

    • Tom says:

      10:41am | 10/06/11

      Well said, TimB. Mal just does not seem to have any pride in journalistic integrity.

      I have noticed that, whenever an ALP blunder occurs (and they do with monotonous regularity), the faithful Labor drones such as Mal write with dozens of references to “both sides do it” or references to Abbott and Howard to dilute or reverse the message.

      However, if the Libs get a shellacking from Fraser or Hewson, the same journos make sure the Libs take the whole serve. Pathetic really.

    • rightie leftie says:

      10:56am | 10/06/11

      tim n’ jim - on what is arguably a right leaning website you are opposed to a journo taking Faulkners comments on his own party, and stating that he believes the same goes for the libs? The libs are in the opening sentence, because Mal sees a similarity relevant to Faulkners thoughts. You fellas actually believe in Abbot and his methods, when todays libs look as effective as Crean’s or Beasly’s ALP. If you want your team to win, then you will need Turnbull (or someone else with ownership over their own mind), and you will need a party open to evolving ideas and policies. Otherwise their team will steal through in 2013 - and they will hold on till then, because the ‘no-action’ will only take them so far.

      I don’t think it is too much to hope for - that the democratic system is not about only two opposing viewpoints marketing themselves for the vote. Debate and argument should be about progressing ideas and finding pathways that are adaptable to the unique context of the day. I find that partisan people that are happy to have stiffled debate within their own ranks are really not into thinking for themselves of adapting to change, they are more about finding a sense of security in a status quo for the sake of consistency.

    • Bris Jack says:

      10:59am | 10/06/11

      Christian Real, wikipedia Malcolm Turnbull,  the $ rules.
      In my opinion, Turnbull and Garnaut have a lot in common.

    • Bruce says:

      11:08am | 10/06/11

      A quick way for the labor party to survive is to get ridd of the communist greens.

    • Andy W says:

      11:09am | 10/06/11

      Did you forget one Dovif?

      Ah yes, the last Newspoll.

      LNP: 44% Labor 34% Greens 14% Others 8%

      Newspoll is far more reliable than the others.

      Maybe you should research somewhere other than the LNP website before you post.

    • Tom says:

      11:13am | 10/06/11

      Don’t you just love the ALP drones like Christian Real all screaming out “bring back Malcolm Turnbull”.

      Why would the Libs bring back Turnbull? He was being mercilessly flogged by Kevin07 while our vaccuous media fawned on the pixie’s every utterance. Longing for those good old days are we?

      @rightie leftie, you too comrade. I suspect you are more leftie than rightie?

    • dovif says:

      11:46am | 10/06/11

      Andy W

      Except the Newspoll was taken 2 weeks ago, when the Liberals were having their problems. while the 2 polls are more recent

      Fail again

    • dovif says:

      11:52am | 10/06/11

      Andy W

      You really have 0 credibity

      On the same day of the Newspoll, (2.5 weeks old actually) there was a Essential research poll which had Coalition 47 per cent, Labor 34 per cent, Greens 12 per cent

      We have had 2 more polls showing the same thing, and 1 rogue Newspoll showing Coalition was at 44%,

      The previous Newspoll also showed Coalition at 46% all coming from the ALP

      You choosed 1 rogue poll out of 5 and choosed the earliest poll to support your case, you really have 0 credibility

    • The Galah from Hervey Bay says:

      12:17pm | 10/06/11

      Christian Real :  The sole reason you call for the return of Turnbull is that you are fully aware that Tony Abbott will defeat Gillard easily at the next ballot.

      Abbott destroyed Rudd and went within a whisker of defeating a first term government which has only happened once in Australian political history.

      Gillard is stumbling about in a sea of despair , failing dismally to implement programs , taking the country further down Whitlam’s path of economic destruction .

      Even now , speculation is rife on number crunching to remove Gillard from the leadership before she destroys the Federal Labor government.

      Just take a look at the recent vote carried against the Speaker of the House . Abbotts support was the only way the Gillard farce could survive.

    • Andy W says:

      12:34pm | 10/06/11

      Dovif

      The average of all Newspolls taken since the election have the LNP on 44% and Labor on 33%. the votes are going somewhere but not to the LNP.

      Newspoll has the best reputation and you know it.

    • Same as Always says:

      01:23pm | 10/06/11

      </strong>“Turned voters to alternatives?” Last I checked the “third party” (which once used to be the Democrats but is now the Greens) are still only polling at the same 10% they always have.

    • Mark W says:

      01:25pm | 10/06/11

      Better dead than red, get rid of the ranga for startes, then disassociate from the Greens and thier idiotic ideology,then Labor would get its grass root supporters back. I for one will not vote for them again till they do this.

    • dovif says:

      01:40pm | 10/06/11

      Andy W

      LOL

      0 credibility, do you have a link for that LOL,

      The worst poll since the election for the Coalition was the Newspoll you referred to for your single piece of fact.

      All other polls had the Coalition on at least 45% you need to go back to school to work on your definition of Average

      And it is the most recent polls that has the most meaning

      you are so lost it is not funny

    • Bobster says:

      02:22pm | 10/06/11

      I can solve that mystery for you, TimB.

      The Liberal Party is in the throes of similar soul searching. The entire issue should be looked at in the context of declining party memberships across the board.

      I believe, without doing any revision on the numbers, that the decline is more pronounced in the ALP - I heard they struggled to even find enough people to man polling stations at the last election.

      A disconnect between party officials and rank and file members has been developing in both major parties in recent years so it is fair, I think, in general terms, to compare Faulkner’s opinions on the ALP to some of the internal issues facing the Liberal Party as well.

      I don’t think it’s fair to look at the inclusion of the Liberals as an attempt to drag them into Labor’s problems. I think it’s fair comment to say both major parties are having some problems in this regard.

    • TimB says:

      05:58pm | 10/06/11

      @ Bobster, you might have a point *if* Mal had bothered to actually analyse the Liberal’s issues. Contrast them properly with the issues facing Labor.
      As you say no-one would claim that the Libs are perfect, but you’d have to be truly blind to think that their issues come anywhere *near* the level of problems the ALP have.

      But this whole article was about Labor and it’s massive problems. It was wrtten in response to Faulkner’s criticism of the party.

      The article boils down to basically this:

      ‘These are Labor’s problems and the issues facing them….. Oh and the libs are pretty shit too”

      Mentioning the Liberals was a meaningless afterthought. Possibly designed to equate the Liberal issues with the depth of the Labor issues, *without* actually doing a comparison.

      I’m generally not one to call writers “hacks” (as far as I know I’ve only ever done it to Peter Lewis) . But Mal seems to be getting a reputation as one. And it’s stuff like this that shows why.

    • Bobster says:

      07:55pm | 10/06/11

      Nah, not buying it.

      You can’t do everything with every piece. You can’t absolutely balance each individual article perfectly. It’s a waste of time and effort.

      Faulkner’s comments have given publicity to the ALP issue and stuck in back on the front page.

      Wouldn’t Farr be lying by omission if he didn’t at least acknowledge the the Liberal Party has issued.

      Wouldn’t someone be posting right now in your place saying he is clearly and unnecessarily targeting the ALP without even so much as a nod towards the Liberal Party’s own soul-searching?

    • elhombre of Dubai says:

      08:50pm | 11/06/11

      Hey rightie leftie pooky wookie shnookums, Mummy and Daddy must be SO proud that their little wittle ALP trooper has learned to use diminutives in place a proper argument. All those years in Kindergarten have finally paid off, haven’t they petal?

    • Alex says:

      10:08pm | 13/06/11

      Malcolm Turnbull is a sane rational and logical politician. Tony Abbot is a throw back to Howards 1950’s social back pedaling.
      I can tell you as a former young labor member I would happily vote for Malcolm Turnbull, but if Abbot is the leader at the next election I will be campaigning against that evil dinosaur.

    • Que says:

      06:21am | 10/06/11

      Dpn’t worry, no one in the party is listening. This country is being held to randsom by the worst government in history and will emerge at the other end markedly weakened.

      Reply

    • Reggie says:

      08:37am | 10/06/11

      Now come on Que, i know you’re not used to having your opinion questioned but this is what it is all about. Not tacit agreement but vigorous discussion, something that this list knows very little about and the Liberal Party knows even LESS.

      The Labor party has betrayed its roots by adopting the the same inward looking as the Conservatives have done for the whole of their existence. That’s why the Liberals have to be mentioned, they are the yard-stick that has reduced Australian Politics to a club. Only the Labor Party has the attachments to engage the community in productive discussion. You won’t find it in the halls of PUNCH when the common denominator is sarcasm.

    • Jim says:

      09:20am | 10/06/11

      @Reggie - “Only the Labor Party has the attachments to engage the community in productive discussion”....more liek only the Labor Party has the audacity to look people in the eye and tell lies.

      What’s worse is that with the solidarity demanded of all ALP members, every single one of them have destroyed their own integrity.

      I’ve been asked in the past to lie by my boss to the EPA over a serious breach. I refused, he got someone else, I was made redundant a week later. He eventually got caught and is now banned from holding a mine managers ticket in QLD. I was temporarily out of a job but I could sleep at night.

    • Que says:

      10:18am | 10/06/11

      @Reggie - I don’t read daily editorials addressing any major dissent and lack of procedure within any other party except the ALP.

      For you to blame the ALP’s deep and complex woes on the Libs is just juvenile.

    • RyaN says:

      12:55pm | 10/06/11

      @Andy W: way to make Reggies post look like the lies and propaganda it is, thanks for that post.

    • Que says:

      02:52pm | 10/06/11

      @Andy don’t be childish.

      That’s one headline and hardly carries the same implication of the rot and systematic failure of the Labor party as it stands.
      A ‘rift’ on a single issue is hardly the same thing. The key feature is the thousands of previously ‘rusted-on’ ALP voters that have dropped their support. You don’t see that with the Libs.

    • Chris L says:

      12:47pm | 14/06/11

      “the thousands of previously ‘rusted-on’ ALP voters that have dropped their support” -
      That would indicate that they were not rusted on Que.

      In fact it would seem that most left leaning voters are willing to question, critique and even vote against Labor. Yet reading TimB’s message above the right wing seems to get outraged at even a brief mention that the Coalition might suffer a similar problem.

    • Super D says:

      06:33am | 10/06/11

      There are presently two main paths to an ALP candidacy.  It can be achieved by working as a staffer, advisor or organiser within the party organisation or via the trade union movement.  The party could easily ban party officials and staffers from candidacy, dealing with the dross that the union owners throw up is more challenging and would require changes within the union movement itself.  As a suggestions I would mandate a minimum of 5 years as shop steward before seeking higher office.  This would see off most of the professional unionists.

      Fortunately the ALP will soon have another decade in opposition to contemplate these issues.

      The Liberal party does have a small problem with staffers but nowhere near the extent of the Labor Party.

      Reply

    • Rose says:

      07:19am | 10/06/11

      Couldnt agree more. Though I think the Unions are the real problem. Especially the conservative Union leaders who pretty much make all of Labor’s decisions. If Labor wants to get out of this with a pulse they need to put the Unions in their place. Unions are there to help their paying members and workers, not to put themselves in cushy Labor jobs living it up at the tax payer expense.

    • Vaunted says:

      10:19am | 10/06/11

      Parallels with the USSR Communist Party are striking. Only insiders get a look-in with fact-twisting, strident slogans and propaganda the order of the day, viz “ordinary working families will be better off under our ‘carbon polution’ (sic) reduction plan”. My old Dad will be spinning in his grave, that he dedicated so much of his life’s loyalty and energy for what the ALP has become, a party for self-serving, disconnected career aparatchiks.

    • Bobster says:

      02:45pm | 10/06/11

      Don’t these issues go to the problem of activism that Faulkner highlighted?

      If the ALP has been hijacked by internal machine men and the ALP and the unions are intrinsically linked, doesn’t it stand to reason to say the same rot can be found in both the unions and the ALP proper.

      Couldn’t it then be fairly said that an overhaul could provide real activism to both the party and the unions, thus making them more inclusive and representative, in turn, bolstering their popular support and rekindling party and union relevancy?

      It’s a bit of a different story with the Libs. They still have the staffers and machine men coming through but one can also effectively purchase candidacy in the Liberal Party due to their lack of a reliable revenue stream. (Labor has the unions, Libs rely almost solely on donations)

    • Against the Man says:

      06:42am | 10/06/11

      Sorry guys Rudd and Gilltard have destroyed the ALP and the Labor brand beyond repair. How you gonna fix the asylum issue or the carbon tax?

      Corruption, incompetence, ego and stupidity, all core Labor values under the Rudd/Gilltard debacle.

      Enjoy further drop in the polls smile

      Reply

    • Joan says:

      07:28am | 10/06/11

      Yep. backtabber Julia the liar, Juliar the incompetent, Juliar wearing L plates who launches policies that end up off the track as a crash bang disaster. Juliar has led the party that lost its way ,  right off the cliff edge. Nobody listening to Juliar except the Labor diehards heading for the rocks at the bottom of the cliff.

    • Blind Freddy says:

      08:25am | 10/06/11

      @Joan

      LIE-bral Party! LIE-bral Party! LIE-bral Party scum!

      Compelling discourse aint it?

    • Reggie says:

      08:58am | 10/06/11

      You’ve nailed it Freddie. smile  Discussion is not possible with a conservative because they regard knowledge as power and scared it might leaking away.

      All that remains is name-calling.

    • dovif says:

      09:12am | 10/06/11

      Blind Feddy

      Are you able to tell between Real and Fake Julia yet?

      How about the Julia’s lie, she keep saying she did not, until the radio and tv showed footage of her saying “There will be no Carbon Tax under a government I led”

      I wonder when “No” means No for julia

      Kinda remind me that “No” child will be living in Provety

      It is in the culture of the ALP to lie

    • Joan says:

      09:25am | 10/06/11

      Blind Freddy:  Juliar earned her name…. all her own doing. along with backstabbing people PM Rudd..etc etc etc ..she has made a name for herself in more ways than one

    • Tiger says:

      10:36am | 10/06/11

      @ Reggie
      name calling? as opposed to your broad sweeping generalisation of conservatives? puh-lease.

    • Nick42 says:

      10:45am | 10/06/11

      dovif it is the culture of all politicians to lie, remember core and non-core promises and lying rodent for Howard. To say that only the ALP lie makes you no better than the labor fanatics - liberals/nationals lie just as much and for that matter so do the Greens they are all politicians and are liars until proven otherwise. Yes Julia is a garbage Prime Minister, worse than Rudd I reckon but do not assume the other side is any better.

    • dovif says:

      11:19am | 10/06/11

      Nick42

      If you looked at my post, you would understand that I was replying to Blind Freddy calling the Lie-beral party

      I was making the same point as you, that Blind Freddy is calling the Kettle black

    • Against the Man says:

      02:15pm | 10/06/11

      Sorry again folks but the polls show that the Gilltard lies and failure are damning her party to hell. It is impossible to show any positive aspects to her government.

    • Bobster says:

      03:02pm | 10/06/11

      The fact that you think Rudd and Gillard have anything to do with this rot proves you have no right to an opinion on the matter.

      You’d be better served looking to NSW for your answers, especially the career of one Mark Arbib and his friends.

    • Nick42 says:

      03:20pm | 10/06/11

      Hi dovif I understand what you are saying and I apologise for being a bit harsh it is just that I just I thought you were having only a go at the ALP when you said they have a culture of lying. Being a centralist a leaning a bit left or right depending on the topic I get a bit incensed when somebody claims one side is one thing and the other is different when I have a very contemptuous opinion of politicians in general. Looks like I used your comment to punch my own buttons- sorry about that

    • Blind Freddy says:

      03:29pm | 10/06/11

      I think that they are all liars. Some lies mattere more than others and judgements on importance are up to the individual to decide. I will not let my judgement of truth be predetermined by my voting preference.

      @DOVIF
      Personnaly I don’t like JG but linke the Liberal Party (particularly TA) even less. So, for me she is the lesser of two unavoidable evils. When she made her ‘no tax’ statement I thought she was an idiot. However, I support a market mechanism to control carbon emissions and the tax is a step in that direction. So, I tolerate her lie.

      Tony Abbott misrepresents his position constantly- according to the audience. He too (even by his own admission) is a liar. I dont support a soviet style command solution to control carbon emission.

      So, of the two she gets my preference. But, to suggest that dishonesty is unique to one side of the political discourse is either disingenous, partisan - or naive.

      My use of LIE-bral was to highlight the stupidity of the mindless abuse- and it worked because Joan actually managed a post without one word of abuse- a first, I suggest.

    • Bobster says:

      04:41pm | 10/06/11

      Dear Blind Freddy,

      Will you marry me?

      Love,
      Bobster

    • Against the Man says:

      06:35pm | 10/06/11

      The poor ALP zombies still haven’t accepted the frustration of the majority, hey at we know we are not getting a carbon tax because that was what Gilltard promised, right? Right? No answers? Blame Abbott? Distract? Avoid the Gilltard lie? Lies about standing by Rudd? Lies about sorting out healthcare? No lies right?

      Sorry Labor supporters the game is over for you guys, sorry you didn’t get the memo. smile

    • Dr Jack says:

      07:10am | 10/06/11

      Sorry, Mal. You have indulged in some unusual sneakiness and we have detected it. It’s pure Labor crap and insider crooks (Gillard, Arbib, Bitar, Shorten etc) who have caused their endless trouble.
      On an aspect of real political guts, Faulkner was put into the tragic defence job a while back to fix it. Finding it a colossal fraudulent bungle, he did nothing, backed out for others to flounder and has now moved into a grand old man role. What cowardice!

      Reply

    • Gavin says:

      12:51pm | 10/06/11

      You might want to google “Santo Santoro” before you claptrap on with your biased diatribe.

    • Deepthinker says:

      07:16am | 10/06/11

      People are more educated these days, they can think for themselves, well 50% of them can, Get up and a few other con groups like the greens still exist but people will eventually wake up to the scams that they are putting forward. Party politics will be replaced eventually but I don’t know with what, a band of independents could be classed as a party. When there is no industry left in Australia the peole will wake up that unions are leeches on the economy.

      Reply

    • Jim says:

      09:09am | 10/06/11

      It’s never the unions fault Deepthinker…they always manage to blame someone else.

    • Reggie. says:

      09:21am | 10/06/11

      A “band of independents” would never be classed as a PARTY because they intrinsically do NOT toe a party line.

      A bunch of rabble would be more suitable.

      This is why the Conservatives get all uppity when that bunch of Labor rabble start to imitate them by closing ranks. Only a conservative melt-down would make the country more democratic but that’s not likely to happen as they frolic about in a fairy-ring holding their members tightly.

    • S.L says:

      07:27am | 10/06/11

      I was involved in the local Labor party and was weighing up my options to “have a go” and stick my hand up for preselection at a state level. My area is a swinging seat and was lost to the Libs in the O’Farrell landslide. The frustrating thing is in the tide of anti Labor sentiment some real incompetents got in on the Liberal ticket in my general area. Now the same would have happened if the roles were reversed so I’m not knocking the conservatives. Our local federal Labor MP (good bloke that he is) is an import from interstate and a former unionist. I’m not a unionist and I don’t drink cafe’ latte so I decided not to waste my time…................

      Reply

    • Jim says:

      07:40am | 10/06/11

      Can’t help thinking that Mal would have been a lot more savage and would have had at least two schoolyard insults per paragraph if it was a story about a Coalition MP talking about problems in the Coaltion ranks.

      Reply

    • Reggie. says:

      10:04am | 10/06/11

      Insults are in the mind of the beholder and there are no problems in the coalition ranks because they are slain at birth. Just like Stalin did with his potential dissenters.

    • Que says:

      10:30am | 10/06/11

      Reggie you are really having a bad day. Very little of your posts make any sort of sense. Are you OK?

    • NicoleG says:

      11:37am | 10/06/11

      @Que, have you only just come across old Reggie? Nothing he says ever makes sense.

    • Que says:

      02:54pm | 10/06/11

      @NicoleG. You’re right. I should have kept scrolling down to see his other posts before posting mine.

    • Reggie says:

      04:11pm | 10/06/11

      You know you’ve made it when they feel they need to gang up, thought admittedly NicoleG counts for very little and serves only to devalue Que’s input. Bad luck mate. smile

      Just close ranks and name-call, the last gasp of the right-wing drubs.

    • NicoleG says:

      04:38pm | 10/06/11

      Oh Reggie, I do worship the ground that awaits you.

    • Kevin says:

      07:44am | 10/06/11

      I’m convinced that Rudd is a Liberal party mole.

      Reply

    • BobM says:

      08:37am | 10/06/11

      We should all be hoping that Rudd gets the UN job that he is so desperate for. He will dump Julia like a hot potato the moment that happens.

    • Bobster says:

      12:31pm | 10/06/11

      Perhaps they can organise a swap - Gillard can give Rudd to Abbott in exchange for Turnbull?

    • dovif says:

      07:49am | 10/06/11

      The problem is while the Liberals are a broad church, the ALP are a broad church of Unionist, who view a safe senate/house seat as a reward for effort of smashing Workchoice/Employers, or a reward for bench stacking

      When you are drawing talent from such a narrow pool and most of them just want to serve their time and get a parliament pension, it means you ends up with lots of yes men and little policies.

      It is my opinion that this is why the ALP have problems implementing policies and managing the budget. In that these are not the skills most of its member understand

      You can go through the ALP list of parliamentarian, and you would be lucky to find more then 20% who had not worked for a union, worked as a industrial lawyer for the union, or worked for an ALP member.

      The best thing that could happen to the ALP is to be turfed out, and for them to get rid of the dead wood and start over with a new generation, who actually stands for something

      Reply

    • dovif says:

      07:49am | 10/06/11

      The problem is while the Liberals are a broad church, the ALP are a broad church of Unionist, who view a safe senate/house seat as a reward for effort of smashing Workchoice/Employers, or a reward for bench stacking

      When you are drawing talent from such a narrow pool and most of them just want to serve their time and get a parliament pension, it means you ends up with lots of yes men and little policies.

      It is my opinion that this is why the ALP have problems implementing policies and managing the budget. In that these are not the skills most of its member understand

      You can go through the ALP list of parliamentarian, and you would be lucky to find more then 20% who had not worked for a union, worked as a industrial lawyer for the union, or worked for an ALP member.

      The best thing that could happen to the ALP is to be turfed out, and for them to get rid of the dead wood and start over with a new generation, who actually stands for something

      Reply

    • Septimus says:

      07:50am | 10/06/11

      People should know that if you use the term Gilltard - it’s not funny and it makes you look like a bogan.

      No I don’t vote Labour.

      Reply

    • maryellen says:

      08:17am | 10/06/11

      Agree.  Julia Gillard is the Prime Minister - hugely disappointing as she’s revealed herself - and should be given her name.

      However, I can’t bear listening to her

    • Geoff - Brisbane says:

      08:36am | 10/06/11

      Even if all her policies are retarded?

    • maryellen says:

      09:32am | 10/06/11

      Julia Gillard has no leadership skills
      Julia Gillard has no integrity
      Julia Gillard policies are madcap
      Julia Gillard is the Failed First Female Prime Minister

      Better, Geoff?

    • Christian Real says:

      10:00am | 10/06/11

      Maryellen
      I agree, the Liberal party supporters and sympathisers show that they are not taught or learnt how to respect people.
      Regardless of whether a person dislikes or likes someone they should show respect by calling that person by their proper name.
      It shows that the Liberal party and its supporters and sympathisers are immature, childish and don’t respect anyone except themselves.
      What could one expect from a party that believes and imagines that it was born to rule and perfect in every way.
      Some of the outspoken Liberals that spoke out against their own party were….................... Petro Georgiou, Russell Broadbent, Judi Moylan, Bruce Baird and Malcolm Fraser, it is not only the ALP that has members of their party disagree with ideas or policies or the way the party is heading.
      The Liberals cannot cast stones at the ALP because they are not perfect themselves.

    • Jim says:

      10:30am | 10/06/11

      @Christian Real - what a typical reply from a person with selective memory!

      Does “Mr Rabbit”, “Dr NO”, “mincing poodle”, “mad as a cut snake”, “small man”, “hysterical Abbott”, “sexist Abbott”, “mad pope” etc etc ring a bell at your in your tiny little brain?

      You are represent the arrogant left very well.

    • AdamC says:

      10:40am | 10/06/11

      Christian Real, give me a break. Those who oppose Julia Gillard are far less personal in their criticisms of her than the Howard haters were. And, in large part, it is Julia Gillard that has invited attacks on her personal integiry with her epic mendacity in relation to a carbon tax. That is nobody’s fault but her own.

    • jf says:

      10:44am | 10/06/11

      Christian Real says:10:00am | 10/06/11

      “I agree, the Liberal party supporters and sympathisers show that they are not taught or learnt how to respect people. Regardless of whether a person dislikes or likes someone they should show respect by calling that person by their proper name. It shows that the Liberal party and its supporters and sympathisers are immature, childish and don’t respect anyone except themselves.”

      Give me a break. Check out some of the equally vicious and puerile posts by ALP supporters. Neither side can claim the high moral ground here.

      “What could one expect from a party that believes and imagines that it was born to rule and perfect in every way.”

      Ipso facto, the ALP also believes it “was born to rule and perfect in every way.” I, however, wouldn’t say that. I would say that the ALP believe that they are right and everyone else is wrong and we should just do as they say.

      “Some of the outspoken Liberals that spoke out against their own party were….................... Petro Georgiou, Russell Broadbent, Judi Moylan, Bruce Baird and Malcolm Fraser, it is not only the ALP that has members of their party disagree with ideas or policies or the way the party is heading.”

      So, the LNP do have dissenters and independent ideas then? Perhaps that is why the LNP is smashing the ALP in the polls. After all, Faulkner’s criticism of the ALP is that it no longer has dissenters and independent ideas and that is where it is going wrong.

    • Joan says:

      10:57am | 10/06/11

      Christian Real: How about Labor respect the voter wishes. Peoples PM knifed June 2010 and No Carbon Tax lie August 2010….. how do you respect that lot.?..you don’t! They get the respect they deserve, as one policy after another is mangled into a stew.

    • Que says:

      11:10am | 10/06/11

      I agree, Gillard has made all of Australia look like bogans. Quite the legacy.

    • Aitch B says:

      11:57am | 10/06/11

      @Christian Real

      You called Abbott a “drongo and attack dog” in a previous post in this thread.

      Oh, sorry….. forgot you are an ALP fanatic. Your insults don’t count.

      Fool…...

    • RyaN says:

      01:01pm | 10/06/11

      @Christian Real: whoops there goes the very last of what little credibility you had Christian, I guess we can add hypocrite to your long list of commendable traits.
      Pity “intelligent” isn’t one of them.

    • Christian Real says:

      02:37pm | 10/06/11

      Aitch B
      God forbid, I didn’t realise that i had sunk as low as you Liberal supporters in name calling,must have been from perusing so many of your gillard name calling comments.
      On the other hand, you liberal mob seem a slight touchy, when someone calls your man Abbott a nickname or two.
      The ‘attack dog’, I think you will find was originally tagged by the media when Abbott was part of the Howard government, and drongo is a common Australian expression or slang word, but unless your a dinki- di Aussie you would not understand that .

    • Aitch B says:

      03:46pm | 10/06/11

      @Christian Real

      I may be a Liberal supporter but NEVER on this site have I referred to Julia Gillard as anything other than “Julia”, “Gillard” or “Julia Gillard”.

      Don’t paint us all with the same brush.

      I’m quite aware of what a drongo is but there is no way that you were referring to a bird in your comment. Of course it’s slang - a slang insult. And ‘attack dog’ is still an insult no matter what its origins are.

      I’m just as Australian as you are pal but I suppose you’ll pull out your Aborginal ancestry to dispute that, won’t you?

      Try this:

      http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=drongo

      That’s what you really meant, wasn’t it?

      Sorry, mate…. you can’t get out of this one. You bitch on about people insulting Gillard and then insult others yourself in the same breath.

      Hypocrite…......

    • Bobster says:

      04:16pm | 10/06/11

      Amen, Septimus.

      I don’t think they’re listening though.

      Apparently it’s a biting satire of the ALP’s performance.

    • Christian Real says:

      08:29am | 11/06/11

      Jim
      Your guess at me being from the ‘arrogant left’ is completely wrong,because I’m from the right, but not the extreme radical right like Tony Abbott.
      It is time for the Liberal party to bring back Malcolm Turnbull as their Leader

    • jf says:

      02:02pm | 11/06/11

      Christian Real says:

      08:29am | 11/06/11

      “I’m from the right, but not the extreme radical right”

      Given that the Liberal Party if the most moderate and centre of Australia’s “right” parties, how peculiar then that you would say things like:

      “the Liberal party supporters and sympathisers show that they are not taught or learnt how to respect people”

      “the Liberal party and its supporters and sympathisers are immature, childish and don’t respect anyone except themselves”

      “shows how gullible and sheeplike that the Liberal faithful”

      “Malcolm Turnbull is the best of the bad bunch that make up the Liberal/National party Opposition”

      “like other liberal clones”

      Peculiar!!

    • persephone says:

      07:55am | 10/06/11

      Yes, and Moylan, Georgiou et al were called ‘political terrorists’ and saw their careers plummet, which certainly would have sent a clear message to others who wanted to take advantage of the broad church’s encouragement of free speech.

      Strange to put this out there in a week which has seen several Labor party backbenchers speaking out very clearly on subjects such as immigration and the cattle trade - and being used by the media as examples of disunity!

      The Liberal party has similar problems to the labor party - declining membership, with those left in it generally getting a bit too old and frail to be active.

      However, every volunteer organisation I know of has exactly the same problem, from our local soccer club to Meals on Wheels (where octogenarians deliver meals to septugenarians).

      The difference is that Labor acknowledges it has problems, and talks about them. The Liberals don’t.

      Reply

    • Hooray for Julie..... not! says:

      08:20am | 10/06/11

      Geez pers, once a supporter always refusing to look at facts.  Faulkner barely touched the surface with the issues and he was playing into the hands of the leaders who don’t want to be hurt with truth.

      ALP problems are huge.  Their polls are sliding at an unprecedented rate and the people hate them hugely.  Their toxic tax regime is killing them even more than the voters who have to pay the damn things, but still they persist with their path of self destruction.

      All the while the Libs polls are rising in the see saw manner that they will.  Abbott could wear his speedos into the press club and still get more votes on election day with the incompetence of the incumbent Gillard government. 

      For your last sentence, let’s amend it to say Faulkner acknowledges he party has problems…. but Gillard will not because she’s the boss and in true Rudd mode, is in charge and everyone loves her…

      Government, BTW, is not a volunteer organisation.  They are paid (probably not enough) for their work and they need to perform or move on.  In the case of the ALP, there’s a lot of moving on necessary before they will smell well enough to the voters again.

    • Michael says:

      08:27am | 10/06/11

      Nonsense persephone, Labor never admits anything unless it can say “the Liberals are doing it too” or “the Liberals are doing it worse”.

      This is evident in all of mal’s work and 90 odd % of your stated views on this site persephone, when your “facts” are challenged you vanish or let your argument deteriorate to a childish level of arrogance.

      The buck once stopped with KRudd and that was crap for Labor, luckily they knifed him (happiest day of my life) and so then the buck once again stopped with John Howard even though he was no longer in politics and hadn’t been for several years Julia and the party reinstated JH as the phantom menace that only the Labor party could stop.

      All of the people that voted Labor because they believed Rudd was the new Labor have now seen what Labor really stands for, themselves. The promise of action was gobbled up greedily by those that wanted to believe and wanted to see the changes offered/promised, none have materialised as promised, all have been over stated in what was achievable and understated in cost and difficulty, the easiest illustration of this point is. East Timor solution, Christmas Island solution, Malaysian solution, Insulation solution, School Halls solution, Fuel watch solution, Grocery watch solution, Computers for students solution, NBN solution.

      The Liberals are in opposition, the only problems the Liberals have are the ones being put forward by Labor party faithful in here, actual Labor party members know and are not really allowed to discuss what’s wrong with Labor but that’s OK because the people that voted for them know what’s wrong and can see it each and every day.

    • Dan says:

      08:52am | 10/06/11

      I partly agree with perse - it doesn’t happen often. The speaking out by backbenchers on the disgraceful Malaysian solution for refugees is a good sign that not all in the ALP have lost sight of the party’s heart. I also agree that the Liberal Party has the same problems with declining membership and a loss of relevance - thats why we have the problem of the Greens.

      I don’t agree about the volunteer work statement - I guess it depends on what group you are working with. The Night Patrol teams from St Vinnies for example are almost exclusively staffed by people under 40 who are all volunteers.

    • persephone says:

      08:58am | 10/06/11

      Hooray

      Faulkner is talking about membership, not government.

      His main concern is the decline in branch numbers; the references to government are in relation to that - which is why I’m talking about ‘volunteer organisations’.

      The membership is important whether we’re in or out of government.

      Polls are a different matter. After all, a couple of years ago, Labor was polling better than the Liberals are now, and the same dire predictions that the Liberals were a dead brand were being made.

      So the polls don’t worry me too much at present. 

      Michael

      firstly, I am not the Labor party. I am a single member. My views are not necessarily that of the party.

      If I decide not to answer a post - sometimes because I think it doesn’t need answering, sometimes because I have better things to do, sometimes because I’ve answered the same question about five billion times and am getting bored with it - that is not a reflection on the Labor party.

      The buck didn’t stop with Rudd on party matters. Leaders in the ALP are rarely involved in the way the party works - I think that most of us think that running the country is more important than sorting out internal difficulties!

      We always lose members when we’re in government, because it’s impossible to live up to people’s ideals. I’m sure it’s the same for the Liberals as well.

      I repeat: although Faulkner obviously refers to election losses, that’s not the focus of his remarks.

      Polls come and go, as do stints in government. The party has over one hundred years of history, and it goes on regardless. Making sure it’s here for another one hundred years means it has to go through periods of navel gazing and reflection.

      I don’t know whether the Liberals do the same or not. Perhaps they do, and Labor is just more open about it.

      But no organisation can survive, or improve, unless it’s willing to look at itself critically.

      A bit ironic that Farr lauds dissension in the Liberals as the sign of a broad church, but sees dissension in the Labor party as a sign of decay.

    • AAAdam says:

      09:13am | 10/06/11

      Put simply, Labor haven’t done what they promised they’d do (or done it to a lower standard than was expected of them by the community). BER, insulation, etc (all done to standards lower than the community expected).

      They have misled/lied to the public and now lack credibility as a result. Remember “there will be no carbon tax under a govt I lead”?

      Now they are out of touch and no longer even listening to what the majority of Australians want. Carbon tax and troops in Afghanistan are two examples of where they have ignored what the majority want and resorted to authoritarianism instead.

      Sure, perhaps the Liberals have done the same in the past but at least the Liberals weren’t racking up record debt ($200 billion odd) that me, my kids and my grandkids will be paying off. They also weren’t introducing new taxes. So given the choice between two shitheads, I’ll pick the one that negatively impacts on me the least financially and that’s the Libs.

    • Michael says:

      09:28am | 10/06/11

      Dan, one of the things that persephone does regularly is make a false statement and a true statement in the same post and try to convince people that one=the other thereby making the false statement true by virtue of the implied connection/association.

      ie.“The difference is that Labor acknowledges it has problems, and talks about them. The Liberals don’t”.

      Agreement with the first part is a point of view and can be picked apart by simply referring to the known facts on the public record, the knifing of KRudd was very messy and poorly hidden from public view even though all the while Julia was smiling and laughing about her having more chance of playing FF for the Doggies, the asylum issue is equally poorly handled, public statements that are lies and proven to be lies by the third party ie. East Timor.

      The Liberal party’s leadership woes were very public and open, TA was open about his ambitions as was MT, Costello is also open about his bitterness at the way JH renegged on the deal they had.

      The two parties don’t actually do things the same way and don’t have the same problems and trying to make some connection between falling rates of volunteers in charity organisation and party membership is silly, apples and watermelons.

    • Michael says:

      10:16am | 10/06/11

      persephone, i didn’t say you were the Labor party it is you that refers to the Labor party as “we” they are your words, you also forgot to mention that sometimes you don’t reply because the question has bettered your possible reply or you simply don’t know the answer.

      KRudd didn’t specify which buck was stopping with him, the statements were being made around the fact that the new government were still referring to the previous governments failures to avoid answering questions as to why their own policies were not delivering as promised, lets not forget that Labor didn’t campaign on being fast learners they campaigned on doing it right, time for change, new and improved etc.

      Now for some examples of joining a lie to a truth in order to make the lie true.

      1. I repeat: although Faulkner obviously refers to election losses, that’s not the focus of his remarks.

      2.The buck didn’t stop with Rudd on party matters. Leaders in the ALP are rarely involved in the way the party works

      3.The Liberal party has similar problems to the labor party - declining membership, with those left in it generally getting a bit too old and frail to be active

      4.I don’t know whether the Liberals do the same or not. Perhaps they do, and Labor is just more open about it.

      5.However, every volunteer organisation I know of has exactly the same problem, from our local soccer club to Meals on Wheels (where octogenarians deliver meals to septugenarians).

    • Que says:

      10:26am | 10/06/11

      I see the real and irrational persephone is back. Good ol’ P is once again presenting an eclectic and thought disordered collection of wants and wishes, rather than rational argument.

    • persephone says:

      10:33am | 10/06/11

      AAdam and Michael, you’re confusing problems in government with problems within the party. 

      Both Faulkner and I are talking about the party, not the government.

      The government can be polling well and the party be in trouble. The party can having booming membership and the government be in trouble - they are not exactly the same thing, although they are obviously related!

      So looking at how the government is polling and the decisions its making is only relevant in this discourse as it relates to membership.

      Faulkner is saying that the members are being ignored on policy matters and is looking at ways in which they can be involved more meaningfully.

      Michael

      in a thread where we’re discussing a high ranking member of the party outlining problems within it, it’s a bit strange for you to be saying that members aren’t allowed to speak out.

      Obviously they are.

      Where’s the equivalent dialogue in the Liberal party? (Because polling well doesn’t mean you’re perfect, surely?)

    • Dementer says:

      11:08am | 10/06/11

      I think Faulker has some points that a valid and need addressing. I think we need to be very cautious in comapring ourselves with the Libs.

      People with in the party are feeling uneasy about the route the party is taking. Rudd wont go away and while we dont focus on polls Gillards ratings are well below Rudds ratings. I would seem any thing that is slightly left is credited to the Greens carbon tax, stopping the inhuman slaughter of cattle in Indo. While anything to the right is the policy or compared to the Libs ie refugee solutiions.

      The ALP finds itself is a position where is stands for a broad range of issue but the slide to the right means we have disaffected the left. This is the probelm. We need to grab back the Green / GetUp vote without alienating the centre right. There will have to be some serious blood letting within the ranks sooner rather than later. I feel we are a partial government, with partial policies.

    • Vaunted says:

      11:28am | 10/06/11

      Pers, it seems to me the reason the current government is so disappointing and awful by any reasonable measure is that the path to preselection has been hijacked by the unskilled, the unqualified, the unsuitable, the aparatchiks and the purely self-interested. Ask yourself, honestly, would you hire commercially naive and demonstrably mendacious people like Julia Gillard, Wayne Swan and Greg Combet as managers of your family business? Of course your wouldn’t, yet we’ve entrusted them with running our nation and the biggest budget in the land. Is there anyone in the party room that’s any better? I doubt it. And what about preselecting the wives, girlfriends and relatives of sitting and former MPs? How is that supposed to work?

    • DougB says:

      11:35am | 10/06/11

      Good Morning Persephone,
      Often I read your responses and I see a lot of defence towards labour and a pointing out of Liberal “wrongs”.  What I would like to ask you, is,
      1) Polls show a Labour decline in popularity.
      2) John Faulkner says that the Party is being hindered by activists etc.

      What do you see as the issues in the Party, (not the government and politics) and what do they need to do to fix them?

    • Dementer says:

      11:38am | 10/06/11

      pers,

      Problems within the party = problems within government.

      I generally think most of your comments are pretty spot on but the 2 go hand in hand to seperate them is kind of hard.

      I understand that admit such from the ALP view is admission to a fail.

      But a spade is a spade.

    • AAAdam says:

      12:23pm | 10/06/11

      “AAdam, you’re confusing problems in government with problems within the party.”

      Lol. Well at least you are honest enough to admit that Labor has “problems in government” and “problems within the party”. Some might call that rotten to the core.

    • Michael says:

      01:04pm | 10/06/11

      Vanished!

    • Reggie says:

      04:21pm | 10/06/11

      Que. “real and irrational persephone is back. Good ol’ P is once again presenting an eclectic and thought disordered collection of wants and wishes, rather than rational argument. “

      Something tells me Que’s rational and ordered is out of kilter today. Not helped at all by being burdened with Nicole’s dizzy meanderings. The game’s clearly up when all you’re left with is name calling and even then Pers deprived you of that.  Gutted eh!

    • persephone says:

      05:36pm | 10/06/11

      Michael

      I have a life, you know. I can’t be here every second of every day.

      Not instantly replying to your every passing thought is not a sign that you’ve overwhelmed me with the brilliance of your repartee.

      Freud said that sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. And I’d say that sometimes an absence is just an absence.

      And I must admit, I’m totally stumped by your four points. A correct summary of what I posted, but I don’t see how it proves that I’ve linked lies to truths.

      I’ve certainly linked truths to truths.

      It’s fairly well known that few people outside the party understand what it’s like in it (political textbooks always have me ROFLing for this reason), so it’s possible you’re not understanding what I’m saying because you don’t understand how the party operates.

      But, anyway, I don’t understand what you’re saying, which makes it a bit difficult to respond!
      .

    • persephone says:

      05:39pm | 10/06/11

      Que

      there’s a curious phenomena I’ve noticed, not just in discussions on this site.

      When people agree with me, they find my posts rational, well thought out and backed by sound evidence.

      When they disagree with me, I’m irrational, scatty and using dubious arguments.

      Sometimes I get both reactions to exactly the same post.

      I hesitate to say this, but perhaps the problem isn’t mine.

    • persephone says:

      06:06pm | 10/06/11

      DougB

      sorry, having trouble catching up. Damn this fatal charm, I’m far too popular!!

      Firstly, I’m a Victorian. There’s a tendency to talk about the ALP as if it’s the same everywhere, and particularly to use NSW Labor as the template by which all aspects of the ALP is judged. But it’s important to understand that each state has its own rules - even when it comes to preselecting Federal candidates - and that what’s true for one State mightn’t be for another.

      I honestly don’t know (because it doesn’t affect me) how other branches of the ALP operate, so any comments I make are within the Victorian context.

      The decline in the polls doesn’t bother me much at present. It’s a bigger dip than one would like, but all governments poll poorly at this stage in the cycle. All governments introducing major changes poll poorly in the introduction phase, when few details about the changes are out there and thus scare mongering can run rife.

      I’d also have to say that, being a policy wonk, if the government gets a few of these changes up and running, and we still lose, we’ve still got enough good things done to set Australia up for the next decade or so. Given that the purpose of government is to improve life for all Australians, that’s a legacy in itsellf.

      But I tend to think that the polls will improve once a few of these big ticket items are up and running and nowhere near as spooky as people thought.

      The government is having trouble getting its message out. That’s partly poor salesmanship, but there’s also little doubt that the media isn’t helping.

      Look at today, for example - we had a Productivity Commission report comparing the various ways different governments around the world are tackling climate change, a subject weve often wrangled with here. But you wouldn’t know it, looking at this site.

      But I’d also say there’s a problem with communication. I think there’s a tendency to think that good policy will stand on its own merits, and absolutely crackpot ideas are so nutty that people will notice on their own. And there’s also a tradition within the party of being too ‘nice’ to use certain tactics, which leaves the field open for those who aren’t.

      Within the party structure….I’d look at the Victorian experience.

      We did very well in ‘99, because the candidates worked their butts off, even in seats where they thought they had no chance of winning. As a result, we got a lot of MPs elected who didn’t owe their seats to factional deals, but got preselected in and won seats no one expected them too. This gave them a bit of freedom; they didn’t ‘owe’ their seats to anyone.
      (Interestingly, a lot of those candidates have still held their seats, despite the backlash in the last election). It also meant that they had a good understanding of their electorates.

      The next election, much the same. No one tipped the extent of the win, so candidates got in on the same basis.

      The next one, we started getting candidates who were ‘owed’ seats by factions or unions (not always the same thing), to the extent that there weren’t enough safe seats to go around and even the Premier was struggling to get people he wanted in.

      The next one, we lost.

      The new group of MPs - the ‘owed’ ones - didn’t understand what you need to do to win and keep seats. They didn’t have the grassroots contacts to be aware of local issues. They didn’t have the knowledge of the broader party to know who to ignore and who to listen to.

      So, the changes I’d make would be to make sure that the rules about local preselections which are there, are allowed to operate without interference (occasionally that still means overruling locals, but it’s done through a democratic vote, rather than just overriding them).

      The rules and structures in place are fairly good; it’s just that they get ignored at times!

      Hope this covers your questions - I don’t want to bore anyone.

    • Bob Stewart says:

      08:08am | 10/06/11

      Like two robber raiding the chicken house for the eggs and not caring one iota for the welfare of the chickens.,

      Reply

    • Harquebus says:

      08:09am | 10/06/11

      It’s hard to take seriously any idiot who is stupid enough to put big black Flashy boxes in their articles. Get of the Flash crap Malcolm. Peak oil mate, peak oil. Land rights for gay whales.

      Reply

    • Reggie says:

      09:31am | 10/06/11

      Has this guy got some problem with boxes because they’re BLACK and why the discrimination against whales that are not gay?

      Don’t tell me, another derro taken shelter in the garage overnight.

    • Bill Gates says:

      12:59pm | 10/06/11

      He is just crying cause he cant watch it on his ipad.

      Why dont you go ask Steve Jobs about peak oil mate ?

    • Harquebus says:

      02:01pm | 10/06/11

      If an ipad was made holus bolus in the U.S., it would cost about $14,000. The U.S. reached it’s peak oil production in the early 70’s. Man, those were the days. No so Bill Gates, this linux user happens to be very very ICT literate.

    • Give me a break says:

      08:14am | 10/06/11

      Hello!
      Wasn’t that one of the reasons why the Labor Party axed K Rudd?
      Party members not be listened to by the “kitchen cabinet” and thus speaking out in public.
      It seems Jooles is no different than K Rudd.
      This is just a BAD political party as a whole at the moment and should be removed until they can prove they are capable off running the country.
      I mean its getting harder every day to ascertain which Party is which….
      Labors “Malaysian Policy”...seems more Liberal than the Liberal Partys policy on “boat people”.
      These people will do anything,say anything, just to stay in power and for the electorate of Aust…thats dangerous.

      Reply

    • Retired Soldier says:

      08:21am | 10/06/11

      It is hard to believe that Falkner would actually tell the truth in regard to the problems facing his beloved ALP but having regard to the fact the same people who are blamed for the demise of the party, actually still run the party, does anyone expect change to occur?The real blame is with the unions and the leaders elected by them along with the faceless men. Get rid of all these inept and incompetent pretenders and this failed excuse for a political party might one day have a chance at holding a real position in Australian politics instead of the pretend government we have had for the past several years. It seems Tony Abbott has nothing much to worry about except for trying to predict the date for his party to win government.

      Reply

    • Bris Jack says:

      08:21am | 10/06/11

      Faulkner should put his money where his mouth is and move down stairs.

      Reply

    • Markus says:

      08:51am | 10/06/11

      Completely unrelated to the article itself, but if you are going to have a title including the words ‘fight to survive’, then surely the accompanying video would be ‘Fight to Survive’ by Stan Bush?

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCYgQR5PEzA

      Bloodsport - an underrated classic.

      Reply

    • TimB says:

      09:21am | 10/06/11

      Oh man I love Stan Bush. The soundtrack to the 1986 Transformers Movie remains an all-time favourite.

      “Dare” and of course the iconic “The Touch.” I’d link to Youtube if work didn’t block it. Perhaps someone else would like to oblige.

    • Josh says:

      04:16pm | 10/06/11

      I watched The Transformers Movie twice last weekend. I still nearly shed a tear when Optimus Prime dies. Used to have The Touch and Dare as my ring tone and message tone. I also still have all my toys.

      Stan Bush is still going strong. He was at BotCon (I think) recently and headlined a set including our favourites. Can’t say I like his new version of The Touch though. Too whiny for me.

    • I, Juliar says:

      08:52am | 10/06/11

      Rudd and Gillard destroyed the ALP. Gillard’s hasty acts of self-interest delivered regrettably unearned over-influence to her Green extremist colleagues of convenience. That decision further dirtied Labor’s history book. Just like Tanner, Faulkner thinks he is a Labor luminary, but he’s so far off today’s mark he’s looking as goofy as the rest of them.

      Watch Gillard’s very bad manners. When a mature-age NT aboriginal lady publicly called Gillard to account about her housing predicament, Gillard smirked, walked back to the concerned woman, patronisingly stroked her shoulder, said nothing, and moved on.  On the aboriginal lady’s repeated same question, Gillard hesitated, returned to the lady, again stroking her shoulder, smirked, and rewarded the questioner’s persistence with a definite no comment.  In the context of human leadership, I thought wordless laying of hands was some kind of religious or Godly concept.
      Labor enabled into power two successive, equally incompetent stage performers who were clever at convincing their backroom power brokers of potential leadership qualifications.  Both Gillard and Rudd have proven very un-clever disasters in the job. And there’s no apparent successor - not one. So Gillard will stay and Bob Tax Brown will continue to govern. After all he adamantly decreed from his own pulpit that there will be no early election.
      Well, Mr Faulkner forgot one important fact about his own party. It was Labor that made Bob Brown PM and even he is saying nothing about Tim Mathieson being taxpayer funded a ‘personal assistant’  for ‘on the road support’.  And that development, if accurate, and if condoned by Gillard would further demonstrate that she has the intelligence of a fool and the hide of a rhinoceros.

      Reply

    • Jim says:

      09:06am | 10/06/11

      It may have been Labor that made Bob Brown PM, but it was the Australian people that made Bob Brown. He would be nothing if not for the support showed by a majority of Australians all those years ago when he stopped the dam.

      He has since forgotten about the Australian people and is forcing his own twisted and bitter ideology on us all. Milne is as nutty as Brown, and the best they can come up with for public appearances in Hanson-Young and Bandt; two people who come across as presumptuos school captains.

    • Tiger says:

      11:09am | 10/06/11

      saying nothing about Tim Mathieson being taxpayer funded a ‘personal assistant’  for ‘on the road support’

      curious about this comment - so is the PM’s partner is drawing a government salary? or being paid some other way? please clarify ...

    • Ian says:

      09:03am | 10/06/11

      Labor always holds the population of Australia to ransom whenever in power.  The mechanics of the party actually allow for 26% of the populations views to be forced onto the remaining 74%.  It’s called a binding caucus - and Labor is lathered in it.  Whoever has the majority, of the majority, then dictates to the whole.  It’s a blight on a democracy.  Experience back in the old Student Union days taught me never to trust the Labor party.  In good conscience I tell you, if you are part of the minority of the majority within a Labor meeting, you have no say at all.  Only now, at the end of the Labor empire, do they understand - that back room deals and number crunching gives these professional party ‘animals’ a fix.  They are addicted to power, and as you know - power corrupts.

      Reply

    • Blind Freddy says:

      03:57pm | 10/06/11

      I agree- however power corrupts all, not just the left.

    • Reggie says:

      09:57am | 11/06/11

      So tell me, do the various business councils on the RIGHT, equate with the various unions on the LEFT- RIGHT- and CENTRE? 

      The back-door contrivances used by businesses to achieve their political persuasion are rarely demonstrated in public.

      These manipulations are not transparent and a right-wing coalition in power will always agree to conceal them for their “commercial sensitivity.”  It’s much easier for a small right-wing group to keep it’s dirty linen off the front page than for an open group such as a union, where thousands are privy to its tactics and some of them are right-wing spies or malcontents.

      Gods ...  the newspaper proprietors are themselves PART of the business councils with an interest in bashing unions.

      Concealed power corrupts more than that which is open to be seen and the right is seething with secrecy, leaving the unions as an easy target because of their transparency. One that the right plays for all it’s worth.

      Party animals can be of any party and right-wing animals are more viscous than most. So no more name calling about unions eh? We know you’re only distracting from your own need to manipulate.

    • Tubesteak says:

      09:03am | 10/06/11

      I saw Michael Costa (yes, NSW Labor and not Federal but I think it still stands) say recently that people thought the ALP were social democrats and should put forward progressive policies. He believed this was not the case and that it was a labour party born of the union movement.

      At heart is an identity crisis. Is the ALP the political arm of the unions or is it now a left of centre social democrat party?

      It needs to resolve this and formulate policies accordingly.

      Reply

    • Elphaba says:

      09:20am | 10/06/11

      I don’t think there’s anything Labor can do to win this election.  Even dumping the carbon tax wouldn’t cut it, with the asylum seeker debacle.

      They’re dead in the water.  This isn’t going to be a fight.  It’s going to be a bloodbath.

      Reply

    • Carolyne says:

      09:53am | 10/06/11

      Gilllard hopes getting her Carbon Tax up and running and getting voters to support a carbon tax she will wedge Abbott and she’s on a winner at the next election. She may very well wedge Abbott on that issue and leave him nowhere to go, but the Liberals only have to switch to Turnbull and take Abbott out of the picture before the next election and Labor have nowhere to go on the issue. There will be no Abbott to attack and only Turnbull to praise for his stance for action on climate change.
      I think the Liberals will be in a far better position than Labor at the next election with or without a Carbon Tax. The Coalition won’t hesitate to change Leaders before the next election if the Carbon Tax goes ahead. They will have no choice, unless they want to keep fighting about the Carbon Tax and climate change which will drive voters to distraction.

    • Elphaba says:

      10:26am | 10/06/11

      You make some interesting points.

      I still wonder whether Julia will make it to the election.  Replaing her probably wouldn’t work, as it would only promote the idea of instability, but I can’t help but hear the sharpening of knives…

    • Ian says:

      11:22am | 10/06/11

      Fair point Carolyne, I tend to agree. The Libs are in a win win situation with Turnbull to pull out of the hat if required. Labor with Gillard at the helm and Swan as Deputy will have no chance at the next election. Carbon Tax or not. If Turnbull is returned as Leader of the Opposition Gillards going to have a hard time attacking him after all the praise she and her Government have been giving him. She may live to eat her words down the track.

    • Ian1 says:

      02:26pm | 10/06/11

      Hey Ian, perhaps you and I should differentiate between our posts.  In the spirit of you were here first, I will now post with Ian1.  OK with you?

    • Ian says:

      03:20pm | 10/06/11

      Yep kewl Ian1, noticed that too

    • jg says:

      09:20am | 10/06/11

      Rudd and Gillard’s incompetence and inability to form solid, workable policy, as opposed to on the run, pie in the sky, big ideas policy, will see the ALP in the cold for another ten years.

      Reply

    • Jim says:

      10:32am | 10/06/11

      Ten years? It will take 30 to recover from this fiasco!

    • GrahamB says:

      08:57pm | 10/06/11

      Hopefully it will be more than 30 years

    • allan says:

      09:31am | 10/06/11

      I use to support the ALP but the real ALP disappeared yesrs ago now we just have two major parties fighting on the right to gain power. Serving the people to improve the nation died long ago. It’s all about the power and the perks that flow from that, that the polies are interested in now.

      Reply

    • ibast says:

      11:33am | 10/06/11

      The current ALP woes stem from the vacuum left by the exit of the Democrats from the Australian political landscape and the shift of the LNP to the right.  The ALP has had to shift to the right and try to fulfill the democratic liberal concerns of the Democrats.  In doing so they have betrayed their working class voter base.  They should make up their mind whether they are going to be a caucus driven workers party, another conservative party, or a liberal democratic party and stick to it.  They are fighting battles on three fronts and loosing at the moment.

    • not votin anymore says:

      11:51am | 10/06/11

      tweedledumb and tweeddledumber - its a race to the bottom of the barrel that we are unfortunately winning - the differences between the 2 major corporate parties is so miniscule they now have to rely on wedge issues and fear, like those scary scary boat people - the same boat people we are treaty bound to take as refugees

    • AnthonyG says:

      10:28pm | 10/06/11

      Me to. I use to be right into the union, shop stupid on many building sites pulling strikes left right and centre. helped sparky’s get severance pay for all sparky’s. Considered running against Dean Miguel’s for the ETU secretary job when he back doored Gary Mayne. Then I grew up and could see through all the bullshit and started thinking for myself. But back in them days Labor use to support workers now its all about robbing them.John Howard was the best PM we ever had,even though he was starting to lose the plot right at the end of his tenyor when he was bending to the climate change tossers

    • andi says:

      09:59am | 10/06/11

      Some of these self appointed analysts should consider this. Many ALP voters will never vote LNP and many LNP voters will never vote ALP. Maybe the ALP voters are moving to the others and the others are moving to the LNP.  Faulkners has said it as it is and the LNP and ALP are tarred with the same brush.

      Reply

    • Self Appointed Analyst says:

      10:52am | 10/06/11

      @ andi - I’m not sure what you’re trying to say. All political parties have their ‘rusted on’ core supporter base. It’s the swinging voters (approximately 15-20% of all voters) that bring down governments.

    • Ross says:

      10:38am | 10/06/11

      Labour, needs a term or three in the wilderness to empty out the rubbish and get back to realising we are people with lives they are supposed to be looking after .Not just power for power sake. To me if you piss on a turd it dont smell any better.

      Reply

    • Michael says:

      11:55am | 10/06/11

      They had those years,1996-2007 and then recycled the rubbish. A la Simon Crean, how many goes did Beasley get?

    • Anubis says:

      11:35am | 10/06/11

      One big plus about the Labor Party currently destroying itself is that wankers like Ged Kearney who are on the path to their “Safe seats” will be sitting in a party that will be in opposition for a considerably long time once Gillard and Swan have finished demolishing any credibility that the Labor brand may still have.

      Reply

    • bikinis on top says:

      11:57am | 10/06/11

      Between 2011 and 2013, the Federal Labor Government can make total reform and total modernisation of the Australian Labor Party ( from the top levels down to the grass roots and branch meeting level ) as the major policy area of reform for the 21st Century Australia

      Reply

    • bikinis on top says:

      12:02pm | 10/06/11

      Don’t worry voters.
      Labor will win the next federal election in an electoral lanslide and with an increased majority.
      No worries, mate.She’ll be right,mate.

      Reply

    • Que says:

      03:00pm | 10/06/11

      Huh?? I think you must be wearing your bikini around your neck. Seems to be cutting off blood supply to your brain.

    • RyaN says:

      12:49pm | 10/06/11

      Looks to me like the Labor party is imploding in a spectacular display.
      Unsurprising for such and disorganised and completely incompetent bunch who couldn’t hold down a real job if they tried.

      Reply

    • Gavin says:

      01:04pm | 10/06/11

      More than half the people commenting on here have no idea what they are talking about. Blaming Gillard or Rudd is the tell-tale sign of the smart-arsed amateur political commentator.

      Faulkner has hit the nail completely on the head. His model is a political party I would want to be a part of. Party membership should be about participation - that is, helping the party and having a say. Unfortunately, too often do party members with diverse opinions often get shut down at branch meeting level.

      The powerbrokers need to realise they are only powerbrokers for as long as the party is in existence and relevant.

      Reply

    • Fiat Lux says:

      01:44pm | 10/06/11

      The ALP and LNP tolerate neither dissent nor democracy . In Queensland the ALP State Government held two surveys on the subject of Daylight Saving , on a sample of 600 people by phone in 2007 and 60,000 via Email in 2010 . In both cases the results were approx 60% in the affirmative . The ALP ignored the result and Anna Bligh said ‘‘we’re not allowing the majority to rule on this ‘’ . The LNP concurred . As soon as Campbell Newman became head of the LNP his support for DLS instantly changed to opposition . The Daylight Saving for South East Queensland Party did very badly at the 2010 election as single issue parties only tend to get into the Senate which doesn’t exist here . The new ‘‘Queensland Party’’ has many policies attractive to Queenslanders including DLS for SEQ and a ban on coal seam gas mining . This is the dark horse to watch for at the next State election .

      Reply

    • Gavin says:

      04:19pm | 10/06/11

      Actually 60% of SOUTH EAST QUEENSLANDERS affirmed their wish to have DLS. The majority of rural Queenslanders were opposed. There is more to QLD than the SEQ corner, in case you had forgotten. By contrast, Campbell Newman only cares about Brisbane’s interest - and rural QLD knows it.

    • Tony Cooper says:

      01:58pm | 10/06/11

      So what happens next week? Does Faulkner grab Turnbull and go visit uncle Bob Katter to beg for a job? Could be the way to go…...

      Reply

    • Luke4 says:

      04:52pm | 10/06/11

      Costello, Tanner, Faulkner and Turnbull should start a Party together, What a team! Shits on what’s on offer now.

    • Robert S McCormick says:

      02:28pm | 10/06/11

      The stalinisation of the ALP has been going on for years. You either agree with the Party or you are out. In Australia that means the mostly nameless, faceless women & men running the show. Today candidates are selected by the Parties. Not because they are suitable or particualrly intelligent but simply because the Party bosses want to reward some Party hack or some Unionist who they think should be rewarded. Eg. The chief architect of John Howard’s Work Choices was rewarded by the Libs when they decided he should be rewarded with a nice, currently, safe Liberal Seat.
      During the early debate on Same Sex Marriage, after Julia Gillard had usurped the Prime Ministership, SA’s openly homosexual Senator Penny Wong was asked what were her personal views on the issue. She refused to answer other than to say she would follow Party Policy on the issue.
      She was not allowed to say if she was for or against the proposition.
      This is exactly what John Faulkner has been saying. People within the Party are no longer allowed to express their true & honest opinion.
      Before the Religious Right, self-styled Moral Majority start thumping their bibles let us get this absolutely clear:
      This is Not about Same Sex Marriage, it is NOT about Homosexuality.
      It is all about Freedom of Speech & Thought and the Right to express those thoughts.
      Today the ALP denies it’s Members of All Parliaments, Lower & Upper Houses, tat Freedom. They are required to betray their Consciences, Principles, Honesty & Integrity. Obey “The Party” or else.
      How can our MPs possibly have a mature, intelligent debate about anything, finance, climate, social issues, health etc. if one side is forced to blindly accept what the Party bosses tell them to say? You can’t.
      It is weird isn’t it? The capabililty to speak out against Party Policy which is brought into play by MPs on the Coalition side is seen as disunity by the ALP rather than the exercise of that most precious of all Rights: Freedom of Speech. Without it our form of Democracy will cease to exist & we will end up with Totalitarian Governments
      The question newer, younger voters must ask themselves is whether they want to support an ALP which allows for diverse thought & opinion or do they want an ALP where Freedom of Speech & Thought are regarded as obscenities?

      Reply

    • BobM says:

      08:27pm | 10/06/11

      You’re right, Robert - it must be nice for them to be a Labor member, they don’t have to think for themselves, don’t really have to worry about what their constituents want, don’t have to worry their little heads about forming an independent thought - they are really only bums on seats and just have to turn up. to make up the numbers.

    • Reggie says:

      11:19am | 11/06/11

      Do you think that the various Business Councils of Australia, the controlling arms of the Coalition, give a flying f*** what you think if it happens to oppose their requirements BobM?  Think and talk as much as you like, it’s still only a fart in a bottle. And they do it all surreptitiously.

    • Rick says:

      03:17pm | 10/06/11

      John Faulkner last night raised an issue ,
      He has defined what is autopartycracy “absolute power of party politic in power” in which the people are irrlevant with no democratic rights whatsoever like a slave.

      Malcolm this should be your next subject in the front page of the daily telegraph ” what has happened to democracy and why are we treated as second hand citizen?”

      Reply

    • Stewart Scott-Irving says:

      04:12pm | 10/06/11

      What a shame our Senator John Faulkner didn’t take some of the blame for the ALP’s demise himself. When I informed him personally on OLd Bar Beach of my sacking with my School Council when we were attempting to enrol an Aboriginal family’s 3 children in 2005, he just wished me luck in my seeking justice through the IR Commission and Supreme Court. Did I hear further from him or the ALP? Not bloody likely, he was too interested in his being elected ALP President.

      Reply

    • James D says:

      04:26pm | 10/06/11

      Robert S McCormick (comment 2.28pm)  - well said. However, whilst you’re right about the restrictions placed on Labor “representatives”, I feel you could also emphasise just how much the Labor process has failed to provide people of ability in about the past 20 years . Many of our “representatives” aren’t capable of independent thought - I assume that suits the backroom dictators just fine.  So, it’s more than just a democratisation of the parliamentary process that’s required - we urgently need an overhaul of the electoral process here in Australia.

      Reply

    • Ryan says:

      07:38pm | 10/06/11

      They don’t have to fight, they can and should just die quietly out of the way somewhere.  They are just trade union stooges and have no crediblility at any level.

      Reply

    • persephone says:

      07:52pm | 10/06/11

      And, just for some balance:

      http://www.smh.com.au/national/reith-ruffles-feathers-with-postelection-manifesto-20110608-1fsz2.html
      ’ ‘THE former Howard government minister Peter Reith has ruffled feathers in the Liberal Party by recommending it adopt widespread reforms to empower and reinvigorate the membership.’

      ‘It is understood to be similar to Labor’s post-election review conducted by the party elders John Faulkner, Bob Carr and Steve Bracks, which contained recommendations that concentrated on increasing grassroots participation and influence in order to reverse a declining and ageing membership.’

      Reply

    • BobM says:

      08:31pm | 10/06/11

      Oh shut up persephone. Nobody bothers to read your verbose postings anymore - they turn off, just like they do with Ghoulia. Blah, blah, blah….

    • RyaN says:

      09:16pm | 10/06/11

      Yeah nice try Labor stooge, the comparison is not even close!

    • Christian Real says:

      08:39am | 11/06/11

      BobM
      You say: “Oh shut up persephone. Nobody bothers to read your verbose postings anymore”
      Well Bob, you are wrong, because I read then and I am sure that others do also.
      Perhaps, your comment reflects the fact that you don’t like being outdone for comment ,or maybe it is just that you are lost for an answer, or are you completely stuck for words like Tony Abbott was when Mark Riley interviewed him.?

    • persephone says:

      09:49am | 11/06/11

      Interesting, when there’s only five words of that post are mine and the rest are from the article.

      So it’s not my comparison at all.

      And you fail to explain how the Liberals admitting they have a declining and ageing memebership is different from Labor admitting they have a declining and ageing membership.

    • Reggie says:

      11:44am | 11/06/11

      Abuse eh, the hallmark of right-wing. All you need now BobM and the Melbonian Ryan is a useless few words from the precious Nicole and we’ll have the three-stooges sans balls. 

      I am surprised Peter Reith has ever been allowed to raise his head in politics again. It just shows how desperate the Libs have become. But he’s right, the whole coalition should be put to the stake to free itself from the taint of people such as HE.

    • RyaN says:

      10:34pm | 11/06/11

      @Reggie: desperate? have you seen the polls, no you leftie elitists strutting around thinking you know whats best for us and telling us what to do without a double digit IQ between you is what is absolutely hilarious.
      Corrupt to the core and filled with pedophiles and filth.

    • Reggie says:

      05:34pm | 12/06/11

      Careful Ryan, you’re reverting. I thought we had your problem in hand.

      “strutting” ” double digit IQ”  “pedophiles and filth.” “stooges.”

      As I was saying ... more name-calling from the dizzy-right.  ROFLMAO.

    • Fiat Lux says:

      09:30pm | 10/06/11

      Mr Peter Wellington , Independent MLA for Nicklin , introduced a Bill to Queensland State Parliament for a 2 year trial of Daylight Saving for South East Queensland some 13 months ago . Debate on this bill has never been allowed . As only 25% of the population of Queensland live outside SEQ this is a travesty against democracy which has the connivance of both the ALP and LNP . Next year we might get to change dictators .

      Reply

    • stephen says:

      10:03pm | 10/06/11

      The Labor stuncheons mean well, but they simplify a problem that affects every portion of life, from the Arts, Business, Science, Sport and the Proletariat : the de-emphasizing of experience and its flay, the ability to solve problems.
      Life is not an objective and education isn’t either, yet so many ‘smart’ people itemize, then categories become descriptions, then governance is a matter of escape : ‘I don’t know what to do’, (Joe Ludwig in Agriculture ?) who thinks that if he says the right things, the results will be good.
      Labor’s problem is the same as all other groups : a false connection and subsequent fear of individualism.
      ‘Interiorlism’  - an aspect of this - matters differently and indeed is manifest worst when it loses the connection between feelings and thought, (and speech).
      Labor is afraid of feelings.
      We all are.
      But how long shall we wait, before another monster takes its’ place ?

      Reply

    • Andrew says:

      10:31pm | 10/06/11

      The whole article is BS. The problem with ALP is NOT insufficient activism - it’s way, way too much. Every time they have an idea (which is frequently) it’s idiotic. If they just stopped having ideas, I’d be happy to let them serve out their disastrous 6 years in silence. Look at their recent ideas: Screw the rich by killing the private health rebate, mining tax, carbon tax, 100x the number of boats followed by the Malaysian solution, batts, Green Car, give $1m to any refugee (no matter how illegal) who complains enough, import convicted terrorist Hicks. The upshot of all this is these “ideas,” in the lowest unemployment and the highest commodity prices in my life we also have larger budget deficits than I’ve ever seen before. So no, please don’t encourage ideas in the ALP.

      Reply

    • Michael R. says:

      10:58pm | 10/06/11

      I, like most people I know, just want GOOD GOVERNMENT; whether it be from the ALP or Coalition.

      1. We want our taxes to be spent efficiently & strategically on the basics.

      2. These basics include:

          - Healthcare
          - Education
          - Roads, Railways etc.
          - Effective Defence & Border Protection
          - Welfare that gets people back into work, not sitting idle
          - A strong, growing Economy so every Australian has the opportunity to
          find employment, save some money and provide for themselves and
          loved ones.

      3. We also want a government led by experienced, capable leaders who will talk directly WITH US, not DOWN AT US. AND…..

      4. A government prepared to take political risks and embark upon informed Reforms for the long-term good of this country.

      Love them or hate them, only the Hawke, Keating and Howard governments have come close in my lifetime.

      Reply

    • St. Michael says:

      05:12pm | 14/06/11

      And it’s notable that Hawke and Keating, despite how much Labor supposedly loves them, cut the balls off the union movement as it then stood.  They just did it a lot more subtly than Howard did—by persuading the onions to agree to it.  You would’ve had much, much bigger inflation and wage breakout problems had it not been for the Accord.

    • GC Dude says:

      02:45am | 11/06/11

      Labor should just curl up and die…..and the Libs and Greens can bloody well join them. Not one authentic charismatic leader amongst the lot of them that can inspire this nation to greatness. Just a squabbling bunch of cretins more interested in their own self preservation intent on shoving lies down our throats. I can’t believe the amount of people that defend either and any political party in this country. Have we all become political zombies that we just suffer this current impasse on political decline without so much as a whimper? I’d laugh if it wasn’t such a tragedy…...

      Reply

    • seduxen says:

      08:25am | 11/06/11

      What makes Labor, Labor? Whatever it was, it is past tense. Nothing to do Chifley, Curtain. Labor betrayed the Labor traditions - the principals that built on - and betrayed his Voters. Labor has condemned itself to mediocrity, just another lying bunch. There is nothing that would gather the disillusioned Voters back to Labor. Is it comfort to tell, Liberal is the same. We are and will see the total fragmentation of the political playing field. We are witnessing the birth of a new paradigm. Hopefully more players, but definitely exodus from the turncoat “big players”.

      Reply

    • Soames says:

      01:36pm | 11/06/11

      Malcolm, you’re not going to get the response you desire by this means. It’s only going to help your self interest, nothing else.

      Reply

    • crowsfly says:

      04:55pm | 11/06/11

      Abolish all politcal parties. All politicians should stand as independants & speak their own minds & represent their own regions. This ridiculous banter that goes on in parliament & behind the scenes like some sort oneupmanshit sport following after the British cistern has led to very poor results. Australia has far too many public servants & is over governed. Dump the state governments. Spend the funds wasted there on building decent roads throughout the country.

      Reply

    • persephone says:

      09:23pm | 11/06/11

      Well, that was the way it was meant to be - basically the majority of parliamentarians elected in the first decade after Federation were independents.

      The trouble is, there has to be someone making decisions and setting the agenda.

      So what happened was that someone would muster together the numbers to form a government, then something would come up that they couldn’t all agree on, some of the indies would leave the government, and either a new government had to be formed or it was back to the polls.

      So in the first fourteen years after Federation, we had ten changes of government.

      That kind of chopping and changing means that very little actually gets done!

    • St. Michael says:

      05:09pm | 14/06/11

      Arguing the descent of chaos is not an argument for political parties.  The country didn’t self-destruct in its first five years, even if Barton was PM three times as a result of shifting alliances.  But there were actually political parties: three of them, each with a third of the seats in the Federal House—IIRC, Labor, Protectionists, and Free Traders.  Thus two parties had to be in coalition to form power at any given time.

      It’s notable that some of our *best* PMs came out of that period.  Barton, Fisher, Reid, the list goes on.  They did manage to get a fair swag of stuff done, too, including legislation that’s survived the test of time until today.

    • Ray says:

      06:42pm | 11/06/11

      Using deception to promote the carbon tax, is hardly the way of ensuring survival. Examples are:
      . labelling carbon dioxide as pollution, when it is a colourless odourles gas necessary for plant life and thus human life;
      . claiming that climate science is settled, when it is anything but settled;
      . claiming that change to renewable energy will improve efficiency, when it is three times the cost of coal-fired in the case of wind energy and ten times in the case of solar;
      . claiming that we cannot wait any longer to take action, when there has not been any statistically significant global temperature rise since 1998;
      . claiming that Australia will be left behind, when countries such as France, Russia, Japan and Canada have opted not to reduce emissions at the second round of the Kyoto protocol, and the USA continues to refuse to join the Kyoto Protocol;
      . stating sea levels will rise by over a metre, when this is purely alarmist speculation.

      Reply

    • Chris T says:

      12:15am | 13/06/11

      The only way to get intelligent and altruistic people into parliament is to pay politicians nothing but minimum wage + expenses.  That way the greedy, unprincipled capitalists would stay away.  Politics might again be regarded as a noble exercise in public service.  We might get some people with humane learning and vision back into Parliament, too.

      I also suggest getting rid of commercial free-to-air media, which is not equipped to deal sensitively or intelligently with politics (or anything in fact).  Decades of hard-bitten cynicism and hyperbole from the media has really induced a crisis of hope in the Australian people. And now, as Lindsay Tanner said recently, politics is treated as infotainment.  I should have said it is treated as a bloodsport.  This impoverishes us all.

      Of course I protest in vain.  We are now in a deep ideological freeze and it seems no one can take the risk of thinking.

      Reply

    • Bob says:

      04:48pm | 13/06/11

      Or, as is more likely, you’d set the wage so low that those who could get better work elsewhere wouldn’t hesitate for a moment, and those that remained would be open to accepting a massive amount of corruption (Australia’s corruption is nothing to what it could be) to even begin to get a pay packet that reflected their responsibilities. Also: We’ve seen what happens when the greedy capitalists are kept out of government. Otherwise known as the Soviet Union or pre-Deng Xiao Ping China.

    • jonesy says:

      07:22am | 13/06/11

      Andrew - you are incorrect.  Hicks was returned to Australia in April 2007, Howard was till PM.  A Liberal desperately trying to move blame?

      Reply

    • Bob says:

      08:30pm | 13/06/11

      That was the only thing you found in there to question?

    • Dave says:

      10:13am | 13/06/11

      None moral and ethical standards, to which this lot of MP’s hold and are not conforming to that standard of what is right and good, rather, the act and practice of imposing upon credulity of others by dishonesty, fraud and trickery, its called “Imposture, Cheat,Counterfeit,Deception, Fake, Phony, Sham, Sell, Spoof, Swindle, Dissimulation, Giule, and Duplicity”, towards the people of Australia. The world is laughing at us and these pompous MP’s who characterize themselves by showing and exibiting self - importance and emphasizing style often at the expense of thought and full of rhetoric florid flowert words to which only more heart ache, hurt, pain towards the Australian people.  I now put it to the nation, why should we pay so much for so little to these hypocrites and dissemblers of our society. Enough Bull.

      Reply

    • Gabby says:

      12:58pm | 13/06/11

      Hmm, lots of talk but not a lot of information on those “back room boys”.
      Wran spoke the best truth when he said that most Labour parliamentarians did not have real world skills. So it seems that via the back room plotters, aka Paul Howes, we are getting the government we don’t want. In Qld it is Bill Ludwig father of the said animal axing minister. 
      What happened to democracy ? 
      Let the people now choose their candidates !  On way it can be clean….

      Reply

    • Little Joe says:

      06:55am | 14/06/11

      I still cannot believe that people, not only vote Labor, but defend them with such passion. They are not just stuffing up at the Federal level, just look at Tasmania, Victoria, New South Wales, and today the Queensland Government will be announcing a $85B debt, which was actually planned in the 2010-11 Budget, after selling $15b worth of state assets, raising state taxes and removing a fuel subsidy. A genuine fraud not reported by the media. Our debt at both federal and state levels is rediculous. Labor has NO PLANS to pay off this debt. It is currently adding to inflation which is running at over 6% in REAL TERMS and being hidden by the RBA.

      If any of you get the time to have a close examination of the current Federal Budget ..... please do!!! You will find that the slashing of government spending that Swan said would happen, did not occur. Spending actually increased by $15B and is more than than budgeted last financial year. A genuine fraud that has not been reported by the media. 

      The simple truth is Labor will say anything and do anything to stay in Government. They will promise everything and deliver very, very little. But one common factor is, they will drive you into debt. They rely on an ignorant voter that is kept in the dark by people who claim to be journalists ...... but are simply regurgitators of Labor rhetoric.

      Reply

    • wrongtrousers says:

      12:40pm | 14/06/11

      But isn’t the media to blame for this?  As soon as any politician, front or back bencher, crosses the line and argues against the accepted “party” policy, which is their right, the media jumps onto the story and blows it out of all proportion - turning the event from a minor disagreement to a party-splitting, lack of leadership, failure of whichever party leader to “control” their respective team-mates.  No wonder both major parties have such a tight reign on their cabinets - as today’s media show no constraint, and no respect for truth.

      Reply

    • Brad says:

      10:01pm | 14/06/11

      Ms Gillard remains because she is a woman. In a few days it will be the 24th June… One year on and she is doing worse than Kevin Rudd. (Keep you head up that day Kevin you did not deserve that) Ms Gillard is still the ALP choice not because she is performing well but because the ALP is so on the nose that the novelty of a woman still keeps them afloat.

      Reply

    • Cassandra says:

      11:10am | 23/11/11

      Shiver me timbers, them’s some great inofmratoin.

      Reply
 
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