Even Tony Abbott doesn’t believe Tony Abbott

Jaz says:

11:26pm | 18/05/10

Brian..your right.
Sleazy Albanese.
The only thing your government is good at is bending the truth. Then they have the hide to sledge a politician who admits to bending the truth. This government has turned hippocracy into an art form. Albanese you and your kitchen cabinet are the true hollow men. Hand over the keys, collect your cheque and write you memoirs.

Ron Seath says:

11:37am | 19/05/10

OMG Alby Sleaze the fickle one who hands out abuse right left and centre but refuses to accept any home truths. In fact Brian and Jaz have “hit the nail on the head”. Your comments about Tony Abbott are rhetoric trotted out by ALL members of the Kitchen Cabinet, although when I look at the personnel I would call it (in US terms) the Bathroom Cabinet. Not one of you could pass a lie detector test in face ALL of you transgress to the next stage “Coverupgate”. We’ll see have you fair in your seat in the coming election, good luck mate! you’ll need it!

Scot says:

04:22pm | 19/05/10

Albanese has also lied about the road infrastructure on the Nth Coast of NSW. He was there this week handing out cheques for improvements to a sporting field, that was cheap, easy and sleazy. He cannot how ever get the infrastructure sorted like a new bridge over the Clarence River of the upgrade to the Pacific Highway. he is pointing the finger at NSW Labor and he and his Labor mate from Page are on the record now as lieing to the local people. They have been using funds allocated by the Howard government NOT what he has done? All spin.

James says:

08:32pm | 18/05/10

They aren’t really straight answers if he is going to say something different when asked the same question by another group of people, though, are they.

David says:

03:04am | 19/05/10

Have you listened to Abbot in interviews? He is woeful at dodging questions, can barely enunciate a clear response which relates to his preferred talking points (which are exclusively how horrendous labor are and rarely relate to anything the liberals are proposing, because they only have one policy).

If by ‘straight answers’ you mean poorly constructed sentences and obfuscations then ok… I guess but they’re kind of crooked by definition though. Don’t forget the ‘aaah ah aaah’ every 20 seconds. I imagine his answers will become clearer when he has a target for his answers (aka policies).

Rudd’s problem is he almost too coherent, when he dodges a question it is bleedingly obvious because he has quite clearly given an unrelated answer. Rudd sticks too close to his talking points and does his best to avoid showing any kind of imperfection or crack in his veneer of public image. Clearly he has failed in this but nonetheless it has produced a very robotic persona in the media.

In short, Abbot doesn’t give straight answers unless he is asked about a labor policy, on liberal policies and positions he has no target to hit. Rudd is too straight with his answers, pity most of them are tangential or irrelevant to the question.

Joe says:

03:57pm | 18/05/10

Yeah we had better vote for a back-flipping PM who couldn’t handle his insulation scheme or avoid rorting of his school excess building campaign. He is so great.

Jeff says:

04:17pm | 18/05/10

From my lounge chair it seemed like the audience response was about even, and that’s with a Q & A audience who seem to be slanted towards the left. A real world response would likely have tipped in Joe’s favor.

Steve_of_Cornubia says:

09:18pm | 18/05/10

Hmmmm. An audience “laughing” at a Liberal on a supposedly serious TV program. ABC by any chance?

Surprise!

acotrel says:

09:54am | 19/05/10

I believe I have a good instinct about who can be trusted.  I won’t be voting for Bob Brown.  Although Abbott is a self-confessed liar, I’d vote for him before Brown.  However I fully support the nerdy guy.  He might get into spin sometimes but he’s obviously not so well practised in deceit.

persephone says:

04:29pm | 18/05/10

Joan

Abbott made exactly the same promise at the last election.

If he had kept it, there would have been no ‘backdown’ by Rudd.

Joan says:

05:13pm | 18/05/10

Don`t blame Abbott on Rudds failings as a leader- what your saying is Rudd followed Howard now he follows Abbott.

luke09 says:

05:45pm | 18/05/10

persephone, so Rudd’s backdown is acceptable and Abbott’s is not, Rudd’s untruthfulness(election promises broken) is acceptable and Abbott’s is not.

Christian Real says:

10:08pm | 18/05/10

Joan,
Liberals control the Senate, Senate blocks Rudds bills from passing through, It is definately Abbotts fault, put the blame where it really lies Joan.

persephone says:

10:59pm | 18/05/10

Er…excuse me?

Rudd hasn’t backed down on the ETS - he has made it clear that he still stands by it and by the 5% targets.

The legislation proposed is now out of date and needs to be revamped (there is no world wide trading system, which it evisaged; the start dates are now too tight to implement) but if it were possible to get an amended version through the Senate tomorrow, it would be there.

Abbott, on the other hand, having taken an ETS to the last election, firstly knifed his own leader rather than support it, secondly broke a promise his party had made to support it in the Senate and thirdly then turned around and came out with a more costly and less effective scheme.

There’s a world of difference between admitting that you can’t deliver something that you want to, because the quirks of the Senate electoral cycle mean you don’t have the numbers, and saying that you will deliver one, no you won’t, yes you will….

Rudd did not follow Howard on climate change; he led, and forced Howard to follow.

As for following Abbott - please name just one single, solitary idea of Abbott’s that Rudd has adopted. Just one.

Timmo says:

03:49am | 19/05/10

Joan, from my limited knowledge but from what I have read and seen on the news, this Bill, along with about 30 other important bits of legislation are being blocked in the Senate by the Liberal Party.

What was the point of Rudd pursuing it any further at this point, so he as put it back on the agenda for a later time. That seems logical to me. He hasn’t thrown it out, the bill will return again later on. So people will have to wait.

They are battering the PM regarding the Copenhagen Talks, but that was blocked by the Chinese and the Indians and nothing could be achieved there. People know that so why do they keep battering the PM over it. We cut down on our pollution but the biggest polluters such as the US, China and India continue on polluting and because they have more power in the debate they win. It would have happened to Howard or Abbott had they been in power.

persephone says:

09:27am | 19/05/10

Anthony

Rudd also delivered an apology to British child migrants, you might remember.

He also went on national TV and admitted that he had not been able to deliver on a number of policy promises and accepted responsibilty for this.

Dingo says:

10:39am | 19/05/10

Timmo, it’s called negotiation.

If you truly believe in something you argue your case, persuade people and get an outcome. Rudd et al are pathetic non-performing bureaucrats. How long or hard they work is irrelevant when they never achieve anything worthwhile.

People are “battering” the PM because he made a huge song and dance about his commitment to action on climate change before the election, used it to batter the coalition (who actually were exceeding the Kyoto targets) to win the election, and then dropped the whole issue without explanation. Again, he spent a whole lot of (our) money and put in a big effort to achieve nothing.

You can’t believe everything Tony Abbott says but you can’t believe anything Rudd says and most of Rudd’s ministers are not much better.

mags says:

10:25am | 20/05/10

Ah ,Persephoney, as usual you have made my day.  The Senate, including the Greens, opposed the ETS Bill. But don’t let the truth spoil you rant. So what is Penny Nong and her band of overpaid lackeys doing to make the Bill acceptable to the opposing parties to get it through the Senate,huh? Zilch!

persephone says:

04:32pm | 18/05/10

Rudd admits it when he’s broken a promise and explains why.

With Abbott, he makes it clear he thinks you were an idiot for believing what he said to begin with.

BTS says:

04:41pm | 18/05/10

Rudd’s had plenty of practice at it Persephone, he should be getting better at it.

annie says:

06:11pm | 18/05/10

persephone how many broken promises was it by Rudd 25 or was it more! climate change, cheaper petrol, cheaper grocerys, take over hospitals by june, savagly cut the public service, end the blame game, 2020 sumit, nt housing programme. computers for schools, take japan to court for whaleing, super clinics. sorry no more time to list anymore

Charles says:

06:55pm | 18/05/10

Persephone, wasn’t it Kevin Rudd on the 7:30 Report in 2007 who stared straight into the camera and said an ETS will cost the average person about $1/year?

Funny thing was we all knew he was lying, and he still does it today.  He is a born liar, who cannot admit when he was wrong (the worst form of liar).  Now the problem for him is that everyone knows that as soon as opens his mouth, the first thing to come out will be a lie.  In fact he is a Prince of Liars, not to mention a hypocrite. 

Not too much out of him at the moment either, I think the ALP is trying to keep him out of sight hoping we will forget he is PM.

Steve_of_Cornubia says:

09:23pm | 18/05/10

Persephone. I have read, warched and listened to Abbot’s replies and I can see nothing to even suggest that he thinks Australians are idiots. Still, facts are irrelevant to stooges like you, aren’t they?

persephone says:

11:06pm | 18/05/10

Charles

tried to source your reference, can’t find one. Highly doubt it, as Rudd made it clear in the lead up to the election that he was waiting for Garnaud’s report back before costings etc could be worked out.

I’m sure every time a Labor pollie opens their mouth, you assume they’re lying. I only do that with Liberals when they actually are.

Steve

someone who thinks it’s OK to lie to anyone shows disrespect for them.

He may not think they’re idiots, but he certainly doesn’t have a very high opinion of them.

Anthony says:

11:16pm | 18/05/10

Persephone, Rudd admits when he has broken a promise, When was that exactly, I know I have seen a lot of other labour mp’s doing the admitting, I can not recall seeing Rudd, besides when he made the apology to the aboriganals when had really done nothing to them

Christian Real says:

08:57am | 19/05/10

Annie
Climate Change was not a broken promise by Rudd as you falsely claim.
Who controls the Senate Annie?, the Liberals do.
And Who has been blocking the Climate Change Bill and other Bills through the senate?
The Liberals have.
Put the blame where it really lies Annie, and that is with Tony Abbott and his Opposition Liberal party who keeps blocking these bills.

David says:

03:12am | 19/05/10

I agree Nick, both options are immensely uninspiring.

Anne71 says:

01:47pm | 19/05/10

I know what you mean. Where are Kang and Kodos when you need them?

hot tub political machine says:

03:50pm | 19/05/10

“Whichever way you vote your planet is doomed, DOOOOOMED!” ...“Well a refreshingly frank response from Senator Bob Dole”....one of the greatest moments in TV history.

Anne71 says:

08:17pm | 19/05/10

I agree, hot tub. Definitely ranks among my top ten Simpsons episodes!

Super D says:

03:19pm | 18/05/10

Actually the choice is between incompetence and deceit or just deceit.

The problem is that Abbott made a stupid comment and rather than walk away from it he tried to contort himself out of it.  Its the sort of contortion that is possible on Rove or the 7:00pm project but not the 7:30 report.

Who says:

03:46pm | 18/05/10

“The problem is that Abbott made a stupid comment and rather than walk away from it he tried to contort himself out of it.  Its the sort of contortion that is possible on Rove or the 7:00pm project but not the 7:30 report.”

So in other words Tony is incompetent as well.  Great, now we don’t have a choice at all.

Paul says:

03:13pm | 18/05/10

Go on, provide a response Anthony.

What is the difference between what Abbott said, and Rudd standing out the front of Parliament telling people in the ‘former’ insulation business that ‘I know. I know”, and that ’ a new scheme will be in place soon’.

All talk. Dont believe what he says.
At least Abbott is up front about it.

anti-moron says:

03:25pm | 18/05/10

Why would they keep the budget in surplus? The fiscal intervention (that’s Government spending), like it or not was a big contributor to prevents Australia going into economic free fall. The economy moves in cycle as the does the budget, and this is how it should be. Would you prefer a Government who faced with a monumental crisis (economic or otherwise) refuse to act because it’s contrary to their election promises 2 years prior?

And one more thing - Japan is already a member of the IWC. I think you mean international court.

ps. I’m not pro-Labor by any stretch of the imagination but I am anti-moron.

Adam Diver says:

03:55pm | 18/05/10

Is this anti-moron party running this election? I am definately interested to see thier take on pretty much anything, any politician says and then the comments from the party faithful afterwards.

To be fair to Gibbo though Rudd did promise to be an economic conservative and I am pretty sure he promised to keep the budgets in surplus. A pretty stupid promise to make in regards to managing an economy. I also despise the way the money was spent. It was a free licence for the governemtn to build whatever it wanted and it created a false industry of insulation, and some shcool halls, canteens and covered areas.

Joe says:

04:07pm | 18/05/10

anti-moron - former Treasury secretary John Stone is the first to tell you that there is no strong relationship between money spent on the stimulus packages and growth afterwards. Although it appears Swann tried to trick up his graph to show this in the budget by taking out the countries that didn’t fit his desired results.

Jason says:

03:44pm | 18/05/10

Mark.  No apologies here my friend.

A few points though…lets talk about the government, currently in power.

Rudd Labor.

Desperate?
Seen the Unions workchoices scare campaign?  Talk about scrapping the bottom of the barrel.  What about the Union supported pro-mining tax ad campaign?  The relevence to the ACTU?

And honesty?
Mr Rudd continues to surprise in this department.  How about the promise to companies involved with the pink batts, we’ll support you he said?  Happy to see a tally of lies put up, Rudd v Abbott.  I think our illustrious Prime Minister would convincingly win.

And spin?
Mr Rudd is incredibly talented in this area.  Our Prime Minister is specially gifted at heavy handed spin.  The ETS backflip, that GREAT moral challenge, who could forget.  And what about the endless hopes & aspirations of his future government in 2007? 

Why have the Labor Frontbench gone HARD on this issue this morning - Mark - it is ALP desperation and deflection - they’re in trouble in the polls, and they will do anything to turn the attention away from the heavily spun, shambolic mess that is the Rudd Government.

Mark says:

04:01pm | 18/05/10

Case in point.

Thanks for the example, Jase

Joe says:

04:11pm | 18/05/10

Jason as you can see the Labor front bench have nothing better to do with their time than to go all out in the media against Abbott. Its not like they have a school hall or insulation scheme to clean up or boat people issues to sort out, or carbon to stop. Today was the first time I have heard Peter Garrett for months, I thought they had locked him up or something.

Mark says:

11:08pm | 18/05/10

Your joking my silly namesake are you.

I have read most of these comments and here is my take.

Abbott said a stupid thing. Politically dumb. Tactically stupid. But truthful as strange as that may be. I don’t believe a thing Rudd says. And I only believe about 50% of what the Libs say,

Have another read of the comments. You really didn’t comprehend what was being said. People are sick of Rudd. Hasn’t changed many minds this. All it has done is convince sycophants like pers she has a chance. Most people I know actually said so what they all lie anyway. Shameful really.

The interesting thing is to read the comments of the left like pers et al still trying to play the man. Trying the laughable spin of making the ETS backdown, one of the most cowardly and craven political retreats ever seen, to be the Libs fault.

Then you have Tanner who couldn’t lie straight in bed on Q&A last night.

And then the pretend head kicker Albo here.

Lol Albo phoney Tony?

Is that it?

After all your deceits. After all your failures. All you have is an attempt to link workchoices to him. You have nothing else?

Just wow. What a let down the name calling is. You idiots need to give Keating a call. At least he could insult like a man.

Dingo says:

10:53am | 19/05/10

Mark (2), totally agree with the stupidity of the name calling. I think the ALP need to inform Bruce Hawker that Phoney Tony and Sloppy Joe are not witty or clever slurs.

Swan and Albanese in particular, behave more like 6 year old children than “grown ups” who are supposed to be running a trillion dollar economy.

stephen says:

03:39pm | 18/05/10

The quote that young lady gave Linsday, was in fact an incorrect one.
He, then, did not want to comment on what he suspected was an inaccuracy.

Mr Cut & Paste says:

04:26pm | 18/05/10

LINDSAY TANNER: Look, I’m always very cautious about that survey material Ross, and I haven’t seen the particular ones you refer to.  But people tend to get asked questions without being given the flip-side of the choice to consider at the same time.  So, for example, if you ask people a question would you support a three per cent increase in the compulsory super fee, understanding that that three per cent is going to effectively come off your wages, and that if it goes into superannuation, it means that you miss out on what otherwise would have been a three per cent increase in your wages, then I think you might get a different response. People do these surveys without actually explaining to people where the money’s coming from and, in effect, ultimately it’s only us, it’s all Australians contributing, and so it’s not money falling out of the sky and the fact that your employer is forced to put in an extra three per cent in your super means that money that otherwise could have gone into your wages, is going into your super basically…

There’s going to be, particularly at enterprise bargaining levels, I think some potential for that kind of thing to be pursued into the future.  And we don’t necessarily believe that the case has been made for an across the board increase beyond the nine per cent.

persephone says:

04:45pm | 18/05/10

Right, so Tanner was correct - thanks, Cut & Paste.

Jonathan Appleyard says:

05:19pm | 18/05/10

How exactly was he correct? He denied saying it!

Ryan says:

05:41pm | 18/05/10

@persephone : wow I am confused then, you are saying that Tanner is correct in saying that any increases in involuntary super contributions will come from the employee not the employer yet it was just days ago that Rudd and Swann were trying to tell us that this is not the case. So which one standpoint would it be because I am really getting mixed messages here.

persephone says:

11:10pm | 18/05/10

Because I can read, and Cut and Paste’s extract makes it clear that Tanner was talking about how the wording of survey questions affect the way people answer them, rather than making a statement about the impact of super on wages.

Ryan says:

12:29pm | 19/05/10

@persephone : nope, sorry I can read too and what I read there is not what you are trying to portray.

I believe he made a statement of fact after discussing the impact of surveys.. “and the FACT that your employer is forced to put in an extra three per cent in your super means that money that otherwise could have gone into your wages, is going into your super basically”

Perhaps I need a lesson in one eyed Labor reading where I can say something and later claim I meant the exact opposite.

Evan Findlay says:

07:02pm | 19/05/10

Jonathan,you are quoting Andrew Bolt. Enough said!

luke09 says:

04:10pm | 18/05/10

Argee… Albanese, ALP and their supporters should remember the saying about the pot calling the kettle black or is it the kettle calling the pot?.

Mark says:

04:47pm | 18/05/10

You wouldn’t be a party shill, would you Jase?

I can detect several recurring motifs in your posts. You even keep using the exact same wording.

I think you’ve outed yourself.

persephone says:

04:40pm | 18/05/10

The irony in this is that actually - if you look at the example Kerry O’Brien used - Abbott did the opposite of what he said he did.

That is, Abbott’s ‘no more taxes’ line was a considered policy - one which had been discussed in the party room, agreed on, and repeated continually by a number of Liberal Shadows, including Abbott himself, over several months.

The parental leave scheme which contradicted this was unscripted, unplanned, and made without consultation with or the agreement of his party room.

So he broke a considered, scripted promise with an inconsidered, off the cuff one and then says we should only trust him when he delivers the former!!

The only message from this: nothing Abbott says, in speech or in writing, should be trusted.

Full stop.

monkeytypist says:

04:44pm | 18/05/10

So Mark, what happens if I ever ask Tony a legitimate question that’s not sitting in front of him in the form of a scripted policy announcement?  He has the right to lie to me in his answer?

Mark Young says:

06:11pm | 18/05/10

Monkeytypist! My Friend!
Unpleasant as it is, YES! If you ask ANY politician a question be it Tony, Albo, Kevin, Julia, Malcolm, Joe etc you have to take what they say with a grain of salt.

Farticus says:

01:40am | 19/05/10

Interesting persephone, pity your argument falls down in a heap because the parental leave scheme was just a little bit more than an unscripted, unplanned off the cuff remark.  It was pretty much the opposite.

monkeytypist says:

03:44pm | 19/05/10

“With a grain of salt” is not what I asked.  I asked, “has he got the right to lie to me in his answer?”  I wouldn’t accept that in interacting with anybody, let alone somebody asking me to elect them into office.  Can you provide me with an example of a quote from Tony Abbott that I can justifiably believe in now?

Mark Young says:

10:24pm | 19/05/10

Hey Monkeytypist!

Yes, if you speak to any politician you can’t expect them to tell the truth. I’m not saying that they should lie, and they certainly don’t have the right to, but to expect any different will just lead to sadness and disappointment. Heck! Look at this article, ripping into him for saying Abbott has said he may twist the truth, and the goose writing it twists the truth in the very first sentence!! Pots and Kettles, all black.

Have a good one mate.

TC says:

05:45pm | 18/05/10

You may be right but….. leading it where?

Phil says:

11:28pm | 18/05/10

TC

Currently they are sending it down the drain.

Based on the 7.30 report tonight with Tanner. I think Albo may be a bit worried that he might get the boot come election time. Mind you with his millions in super and his useless wifes super as her party will no doubt get booted come March next year, they can retire, knowing they have screwed the state and country in unison.

Anthony. Why dont you answer the questions above, or call a real enquiry into the schools rorts, pink batts etc?

Justin says:

03:57pm | 18/05/10

Branch stacking is fine Jim, as long as you don’t admit to it.

Anne71 says:

01:58pm | 19/05/10

And you Liberal fangirls don’t seem to see anything wrong with Abbott openly admitting that we should not believe a word he says unless it’s written down. I’m a Labor supporter but I don’t like Rudd. I’m the first to admit it, and come election time I hope I have a credible alternative to vote for. But you seem to be suggesting that we all vote for Abbott regardless of the fact that he is a dishonest, vindictive, manipulative and utterly untrustworthy politician. Who are the real “robots” here?

hot tub political machine says:

03:48pm | 19/05/10

Nail. Head. Hammer. Anne 71.

I can understand not wanting to vote for Labor. But actually wanting to vote for the coalition at the moment is beyond me. I honestly don’t think they care what their leader does anymore - they are going to vote Liberal regardless of what Liberal actually means.

Joe says:

04:19pm | 18/05/10

Yeah can you believe all the “whatever it takes”  Labor pollies coming out today to say in the media that everything, absolutely everything, truly honestly, cross my heart,  that they have ever said is 100% true, full stop. Unlike Abbott who is just mr dishonesty!

Lindsay Tanner didn’t last two hours last night before doing much worse than Abbott by trying to deny what he said.

Justin says:

05:48pm | 18/05/10

Here’s Albo now….. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Gf8NK1WAOc

James says:

04:29pm | 18/05/10

Takes the cake for the best comment ever allowed through the moderator of The Punch website. Congratulations all round.

monkeytypist says:

04:38pm | 18/05/10

Boring cut-and-paste email forward text is boring

Seano says:

07:44pm | 18/05/10

This joke was originally about an IT consultant. It always made me chuckle because of the large number of know nothing IT consultants I came across in my 15 years in the IT industry.

I like jokes, I think few things are sacred and certainly no politican or party is above a jest. But I also think if this sort of weak recycled effort is the best conservatives can come up with then they should be very embarrassed.

Dan says:

10:20pm | 18/05/10

Yes, the old consultant joke with a few embellishments.  It is still funny, no matter what Seano reckons.

Amy Brunner says:

10:28pm | 18/05/10

Seano, you completely missed the point….........

That little diatribe, to give out the impression of your superiority, just fell flat on it’s face with me.

Typical, can’t take a joke….

Well here is a “joke” on Tanner and the ALP, the Greens are out of their box, and going after what they see as the most vunerable Labor Seats.

For years the ALP have had their “LEFT HAND” the Greens directing preferences to the ALP. With the reciprecol response from the ALP, this being of no consequence of course, the ALP feeling quite safe in this action as they the ALP have never considered the Greens a threat,  HA HA

I will be watching with great interest how the great Mike Kiaser is going to pull this out of the fire…..........

Seano says:

08:05am | 19/05/10

No I got the point Amy, like most conservatives you’re unfunny, long on rhetoric and short on substance.

Cowboy from Cairns now missing 2 teeth says:

05:14pm | 18/05/10

Hey I thought you were kinda cute, you winked at me I responded.

and you vote Labor a dream guy.

stephen says:

09:06pm | 18/05/10

You can’t tell the diffwence between wabbit season and duck season.
(A common problem with right-wingers).

monkeytypist says:

05:45pm | 18/05/10

And, just think, if Abbott wasn’t so inexplicably determined to bring this unpopular policy back, all of us lefties wouldn’t have a rod to beat him with!

Amy Brunner says:

11:07pm | 18/05/10

monkeytypist says:04:45pm | 18/05/10

“And, just think, if Abbott wasn’t so inexplicably determined to bring this unpopular policy back, all of us lefties wouldn’t have a rod to beat him with! “

Do all you “LEFTIES” realise that the dreaded Work Choices was in force till only a few months ago, maybe, just maybe the flexability afforded to the employers under the Work Choices could have had something to do with the way Australia came through the GFC, or could it have had something to do with the fact that the also dreaded Howard Costello Team left this country with NO DEBT and $15 billion in the bank.

Mark says:

11:10pm | 18/05/10

Monekey has just shown us the dangers of eating lead based paint as a child.

Please let this be a warning to you all.

monkeytypist says:

03:50pm | 19/05/10

Hi Amy, I’m sorry but you’re quite wrong in your assertions.  WorkChoices was repealed before the start of the GFC.  In any case, for your assertions to have validity, you would have to be able to prove that real wages dropped before the GFC courtesy of WorkChoices, which would allow employers, under your model, not to cut staff because they were being paid low wages.

However, there is no evidence that low average wages had anything to do with Australia’s weathering of the storm.  Countries with lower average wages than Australia did worse economically speaking.  And a low level of debt didn’t help us to survive the GFC - well, correction, it did.  It allowed us to spend the necessary amount to avoid recession - a step that the Liberal party fiercely opposed (though I very much doubt Howard would have done any differently if he was in office)

It is quite untrue that the Howard government left Australia with “no debt”.  Our level of private debt was vastly increased and Australia still had an increased level of public debt, albeit one that was quite manageable.  Australia’s level of public debt is still quite manageable, by the way.

So, @Mark: which part of my quip was factually flawed?  Do you have anything to back up your cheap shot with?

Mark says:

11:09pm | 18/05/10

Could be right there Seano but it won’t be this comment that swings it.

It was a real dumb moment that was for sure.

Seano says:

06:10pm | 19/05/10

And this is your idea of smart is it Mark? Ah yeah…ok.

Matt says:

11:04am | 19/05/10

Like Rudd and Gillard won’t means test private health insurance. They put that in writing before the election, but now they breaking that promise. So, even if he puts it in writing you can’t believe Rudd.

Seano says:

06:16pm | 19/05/10

I don’t think that’s decided yet.

Abbott on the other hand has guaranteed he can’t be trusted…I guess we’ll have to trust him on that.

Freeman says:

10:18am | 20/05/10

Yeah good one Seano,
Coz Australia really trusts Ruddy at the moment. latest polls showing that he has a big problem with trust. it seems anything he writes or says aint worth S@#$.

I think the abbott supporters can be forgiven for putting too much stock in Tony Abbott, we just wanted to be rid of Ruddy (the milky bar kid) soooooo much as it is embarrassing to have a pasty, nerdy, sissy of a PM representing Australia.

Seano says:

08:38pm | 20/05/10

I do like the way the same right wing ranters who have ignored polls for the last two years are suddenly crowing about them. How the same ranters who rightly ignored the many, many bad polls Howard received because when taken in context they didn’t mean than much. The same right wing ranters who have ignored the fact that the current polls have Turnbull as perfered PM over Abbott. Amusing.

I also appreciate the apparent depth of thought you’ve put into the reasons for removing Rudd. Clearly not worth any more of my time.

Freeman says:

11:29am | 21/05/10

I do love the way some leftie loonies excuse the blatently untrustworthy
labor gvt while desparetly trying to discredit tony abbott and paint HIM as the dodgey car salesman.

Ignored the Polls did I? I won $60 betting on labor to win the 07 election based on the Polls. Because there was a string of bad polls against the libs and that was the difference from previous bad polls. if following polls show labor still behind that ruddy is in trouble.

Christian Real says:

02:41pm | 21/05/10

Freeman
The “lefty loonies” as you call them freeman, doesn’t have to do anything to discredit or attempt to discredit Tony Abbott, he is doing a good job of discrediting himself.
He has been caught out twice now on National Television for lying or(been loose with the truth) on ABC’s 7.30 Report and also on ABC’s Four Corners programe in 2003
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/08/27/1061663854618.html.
Goodness knows how many other times Tony Abbott has lied or has (been loose with the truth)  when he is not being interviewed on National television.

Ben81 says:

09:50pm | 18/05/10

Oh yes, imagine a politician giving an example to illustrate the point that some people should chase work instead of sitting around collecting welfare and complaining that a job doesn’t land in their laps, the nerve of him! 
Nice bunch of posts from you just now by the way, you sound like the leader of some kind of fan club.

Amy Brunner says:

11:18pm | 18/05/10

A vote for the GREENS is a VOTE for the ALP, if you follow the HOW TO VOTE CARD, which the Greens and the disenchanted ALP voters do.

A vote for the GREENS is a VOTE for the ALP, if you follow the HOW TO VOTE CARD, which the Greens and the disenchanted ALP voters do.

A vote for the GREENS is a VOTE for the ALP, if you follow the HOW TO VOTE CARD, which the Greens and the disenchanted ALP voters do.

How many times does this have to be said before it sinks in, anyone who has followed the distribution of preferences and the HOW TO VOTE CARDS would know.

The odd times that the Greens DO NOT direct a preference to the ALP are not worth mentioning.

persephone says:

09:35am | 19/05/10

Amy

Greens voters are less likely to follow the HTV card than members of any other party.

If people decide to follow the HTV, that’s their own business. In a democracy, the voter decides what they want to do.

Anne71 says:

08:28pm | 19/05/10

Amy, a vote for the Greens is not always a vote for the ALP. It all comes down to how you allot your preferences, assuming you can be bothered to take the trouble to do so. And I don’t think it is just “disenchanted ALP voters” who follow how to vote cards - after all, the Libs hand those out too,don’t they? But I guess that’s okay because then people are voting the way YOU want them to? Sorry hon, we’re not a dictatorship yet. Run away and get yourself a mega-weapon, a white cat and lots of minions and then perhaps you can start telling us what to do. (I recommend http://www.minions-r-us.com for the minions)

Amy Brunner says:

01:49pm | 24/05/10

persephone

You need to do a little scrutineering and become informed.

Anne71

You also need to do a little scrutineering and become informed,

and as for your little spit of:-

“Sorry hon, we’re not a dictatorship yet. Run away and get yourself a mega-weapon, a white cat and lots of minions and then perhaps you can start telling us what to do.”

Like all the true socialists of the world, you resort to accusing others of just what you would have in mind for the world.

At no time did I infer that I wanted a dictatorship of any kind.

It is true democracy that I would like to see in this country.

Look at the facts, persephone and Anne71, find me one time where the Greens did not give their overflow of Senate votes to the ALP.

Matt says:

11:18am | 19/05/10

Gosh, a politician who has lied twice in 7 years! The current Government is much better. They can usually manage a lie or two every 7 days.

persephone says:

09:38am | 19/05/10

So the night club story, the farmer’s family denying he’d thrown the Rudds off his farm, the attacks on Therese’s business management, etc all just got out there by themselves, with no help from the media?

Mark says:

03:13pm | 19/05/10

Yes pers no help at all.

Anything else to add?

persephone says:

12:03am | 20/05/10

Mark

that’s obviously an absurd statement.

How did people get to know about these things, then? Carrier pigeon?

Mark says:

03:15pm | 19/05/10

You love ancient history eh Christian?

And chemicals too you naughty boy you

freeman says:

11:32pm | 19/05/10

Real, I can’t speak for everyone, but I didn’t batt an eyelid when I heard it. I would however be surprised if ruddy amitted anything of the like.

Rudd lies all the time. when something embarrassing emerges he just claims he can’t remeber. (cut and paste from another response)
” I have no recollection of going to that strip joint” or ” I have no recollection of having a hissy fit and upsetting the air hostess” And ” I absolutely have no recollection of telling the girls at the australia day function that young women use getting a degree as a excuse for not having children” everyone knows its a lie, it’s just that no one cares

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/national/party-pies-or-porky-pies-for-pm-kevin-rudd/story-e6freuzr-1111116531304

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/dont-be-rattled-by-the-baby-guilt-trip-20100214-nzb9.html?comments=185

Aaron says:

04:04pm | 19/05/10

I have a funny feeling the letters Rudd is keeping secret, about the warnings he was given over the Insulation Scheme may prove he is a liar. But unlike Abbott, Rudd likes to pretend he never lies and is the moral crusader.

freeman says:

09:04pm | 19/05/10

what? you expect people to change their vote coz abbott admits embelleshing the truth when put on the spot? no-one cares when Ruddy lies about his embarrasing past, ” I have no recollection of going to that strip joint” or ” I have no recollection of having a hissy fit and upsetting the air hostess” And my favourite ” I absolutely have no recollection of telling the girls at the australia day function that young women use getting a degree as a excuse for not having children”

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/national/party-pies-or-porky-pies-for-pm-kevin-rudd/story-e6freuzr-1111116531304

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/dont-be-rattled-by-the-baby-guilt-trip-20100214-nzb9.html?comments=185