The aftermath of news like that from Oslo leaves only numbness. The injustice of it, the disbelief that this was even possible. Bombs at least kill in a single action. The deliberate persistence involved in attacks like Anders Breivik’s make them all the more distressing.

A country in mourning. Photo: AP

For a writer with comedic inclinations, the usual set of responses are neutered. Laughter falters, mouth half open. Even in our bleakest political situations, there are moments of light. Something like this is all darkness.

As reports began to come in, it was the last subject in the world you would have imagined being used for political point-scoring. But if ever someone was going to do just that, it was Andrew Bolt.

First thing last Saturday morning, with news still scant, he was on his blog suggesting that Muslim terrorists were behind the attack. Not an outrageous assumption, by any stretch, but ‘pretty sure’ shouldn’t be enough for such a prominent columnist to proceed without confirmation.

Contradictory news soon came in, and the page was hastily and almost comically corrected. “Already the unconfirmed reports suggest our immediate suspicions are correct (UPDATE: No, they aren’t)…”

“In fact: ‘Explosives were found on the island,’ deputy Oslo police chief Sveining Sponheim told reporters. He said a man detained by police was aged 32 and ‘ethnic Norwegian.’”

“Even so,” Bolt went on, “the history of Islamic violence in Scandinavia suggests Muslim immigration there has been a bad deal for the locals.”

Hold up a minute. “Even so”? At what point does a misplaced assumption like that earn the right to an addendum?

In an action replay, it goes: “In latest news, here is some evidence that would definitely prove that I’m right. Oh, wait a minute, that evidence doesn’t exist. Even so, I am actually right, and let’s proceed with that assumption.”

And that was before we even got to the backup evidence. The “history of Islamic violence” that Bolt was able to provide for Norway consisted of three men being arrested (not yet charged or convicted) for possibly planning an attack on either a newspaper or an embassy, no-one is quite sure; and a charge against a man for threatening a politician.

So, two instances of alleged offences that haven’t even gone to court. Not the most weighty habeas corpus ever to land on a judge’s desk.

Not to mention that death threats are hardly germane to radical Islam. I got them from true blue Aussie battlers just last week for writing an article about carbon taxation. Perhaps Bolt can help me arrange to have the culprits deported to Riyadh.

Remarkably, he eventually took the stunning evidence brief down, conceding that “leaving it up is being interpreted as my insisting on a gratuitous point instead.” Truer words…

But it didn’t signal any change in attitude. In the days since, Bolt has been milking Oslo for all it’s worth. One doubts he’d be so fixated if he weren’t trying to compensate for his early cock-up.

In the early hours of Tuesday, it was those damn Muslims hogging up all the limelight. Because the killer didn’t actively target Muslims to be shot, Bolt quoted that “Muslims are now the preferred victims even in a story in which they are entirely absent.”

Right. But Breivik’s stated aim was to encourage a popular uprising that would drive Muslims out of Europe, and to devastate the political party that he blamed for their presence in Norway. Not entirely unreasonable, then, to give them a passing mention?

Bolt also attacked an ABC journo for apparently not investigating the Breivik manifesto to Bolt’s satisfaction. “But who checks when it fits the preferred narrative?” asked Bolt with trademark outrage. If there was a Geiger counter for hypocrisy, we’d already be clocking Fukushima levels.

But his glow-in-the-dark moment came while getting stuck into the ABC for describing Breivik as right-wing and Christian. Apparently focusing on a terrorist’s faith as a factor in his atrocities was just not the kind of conduct befitting proper journalists.

“[R]elevance of his Christianity seems obscure,” wrote Bolt on Sunday, “given nothing in the New Testament and nothing said by any Christian leader possibly justifies his murder of so many young Norwegians.”

He returned to it yesterday, in a far less coherent post: “The Christian New Testament explicitly forbids violence, but jihadists quote Koranic verses they say justify murder, and worship a warrior Prophet who slaughtered a Jewish tribe.”

But Bolt’s attempt to position Christianity as cleanskin couldn’t be any more pat.

It completely omits the inconvenient Old Testament, a patently insane and brutal document characterised by a God so jealous and vengeful he might have been auditioning for Once Were Warriors. This is the God of both the Christians and the Muslims, I might point out, and He slaughtered cities, tribes, and at one point the entire world. He’s still the Church’s main squeeze.

Yes, I’ve read the Old Testament – it’s great literature. I’d love to know if Bolt has read a proper translation of the Koran.

And while the New Testament indeed forbids violence, it is the far less relevant half of the Bible in Christian politics. Avowed and public Christians have been involved in war and violence since the Church was founded, and see no contradiction. These leaders have quoted Biblical verses they say justify murder for centuries, and continue today. The deeply religious rhetoric of the United States routinely favours the Old Testament eye for an eye over Christ’s call to turn the other cheek. Just look at George Bush’s reaction to 9/11 against Norwegian PM Jens Stoltenberg’s reaction to Breivik’s outrage.

Let’s imagine masked men attacking homes in the night, killing and raping those who live there, burning down churches and houses and schools to destroy a society and culture they loathe. Sound like something from Bolt? Yes, because the Ku Klux Klan are perhaps the earliest practitioners of classic terrorism in the modern age. The aforementioned tactics were employed for decades, along with their bombing of Alabama’s 16th Street Baptist Church in 1963.

The Klan are also an overtly Christian organisation, at least in their own estimation. The burning cross did not become one of the most hated symbols in the world due to a Klansman fondness for tic-tac-toe.

Does “nothing said by any Christian leader” mean Klansmen committed their crimes on pure Boy Scout initiative? Does it apply to those who organise the murder and intimidation of abortion doctors and nurses, or the bombing of clinics?

Does it apply to the leaders of Westboro Baptist Church, they who picket funerals, shouting foul slogans at grieving relatives? Westboro is one of the ugliest religious groups in the world. Pure hate is preached in Christ’s name every day.

As for Breivik’s stated religion not being relevant to his actions, look to his YouTube clip. “Celebrate us, the martyrs of the conservative revolution, for we will soon dine in the Kingdom of Heaven.” Add in a few dozen virgins, and it starts to sound awfully familiar.

Other Christians would of course distance themselves from this hateful perversion of religious tenets. So they should. It bears no relation to a compassionate and true interpretation of Christianity. It is something twisted by the unhinged.

So the affront with which Bolt’s commenters receive talk of Christian violence should give them an indicator of how Muslims feel being associated with extremists. Stating that the Ku Klux Klan claim to be Christian should not suggest that they represent Christianity. In saying that the 9/11 pilots called themselves Muslim, the same detachment should be applied.

Citing Christian violence is not about a tit-for-tat, trying to come up with a ‘good’ and a ‘bad’ side. The point is that neither such thing exists. There’s no crisper summation than that of comedian Doug Stanhope: “There are only two countries in the world: dick, and not a dick. The border goes right the way around.”

Bolt, no doubt, would just repeat his self-congratulatory lines about speaking the hard truth that soft-touch liberals don’t want to hear. This would have much more weight if he told the truth in a positive manner as well. Selective reporting of truth is just as deceptive as outright lies.

He doesn’t like to mention the strengths that migrants bring to our country, or how crucial they’ve been to our development. And not just white European migrants like Bolt’s parents, who arrived here after World War II. “But who checks when it fits the preferred narrative?”, a wise man asked. Empathy, apparently, fails to cross the generational divide.

I’d love to see Bolt do a profile on Melbourne’s Alia Gabrez, who aside from being a remarkable writer, helped create and run a volunteer program offering workshops and mentoring to disadvantaged youth of all backgrounds.

Or how about Omar bin Musa, the erudite Australian national poetry champion who has represented us at literary events around the world? Deeply proud of his Australian and Muslim heritage, Musa is a man of wisdom and statesmanlike humility. Spending some time with him might well do Bolt some good.

In Bolt’s post on Monday, he claimed that extremism of any political character was essentially the same, being “anything that diminishes the value of the individual”.

Diminishing their value is exactly what Bolt does every time he subsumes millions of individuals into the image of ‘Muslims’ doing or thinking a certain way. Bolt and I are both Australians; just a thousand words has shown the gulf between our world views.

But it’s precisely this ambiguity that rhetoricians like Bolt so wilfully ignore. His world is simple: make it about us and them, make people angry and afraid, and watch your page views tick over.

It’s a poisonous position, and one that involves taking advantage of everyone involved: the people denigrated, the ones whipped up into outrage, and the ones whose stories are hijacked to provide one more day’s grist.

Over in Norway, the survivors, the family and friends of the dead, and the nation as a whole, have just begun to endure a nightmare that will last for many years.

Here, in our country, Andrew Bolt no doubt sleeps as soundly as ever.

416 comments

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    • Sceptic says:

      06:06am | 28/07/11

      ‘Not an outrageous assumption, by any stretch, but ‘pretty sure’ shouldn’t be enough for such a prominent columnist to proceed without confirmation.’

      Seriously?  If you want to ensure journalists stick to this standard, then the entire industry will shut down - look at DSK for a great example.

      I applaud your courage, you won’t last in the industry though.

    • KH says:

      07:38am | 28/07/11

      Oh please.  Its not the first time Bolt has put his foot in it, now is it.

      BTW - why is Finland mentioned a few times? I thought it was Norway…....Jens Stoltenberg is definitely the PM of NORWAY.

    • Sceptic says:

      07:58am | 28/07/11

      @KH

      Perhaps Geoff is proceeding without confirmation?

    • max headroom says:

      09:42am | 28/07/11

      So sad, typical column from the leftist elite mr sceptic, they want us only to view state sanctions press releases. Then we will be warm and safe with our big brother green leaning government looking after all our needs.

    • andye says:

      09:56am | 28/07/11

      @max headroom - After listening to many voices in the extreme right attack us, a man comes along and kills a bunch of leftist kids. He has a manifesto that echoes the same kind of of hate filled rhetoric.

    • Swinging Voter says:

      10:21am | 28/07/11

      Skeptic:

      I’m not sure the problem is so much that he reported it, but that he kept it up AFTER first the rumors and then the confirmation that it was not a muslim. And even after a huge massacre of ‘leftist’ children at the hands of an extreme right, he has maintained a steady stream of partisan, us vs them, anti-left propoganda.

      It’s like he’s trying to goad someone into a follow up attack.

      Careful Andye, you’re sounding close to logical there.

      Using logic with people like max tends to lead to either:
      a) being accused of political correctness (by disagreeing with any of his agenda)
      b) being accused of somehow stifling ‘freedom of speech’ (by having the audacity to respond in open debate)
      c) Some rant about how democracy is being undermined by elites and some arch conspiracy and we need to have a revolution of some sort.

      The thing that is most worrying is that from this kind of language, it’s easy to see how the next ABB could spring.

    • Grumbles says:

      11:11am | 28/07/11

      Don’t know why anyone bothers to try to admonish Bolt. His sort are beyond redemption, beyond compassion and beyond humanity. This is a wondeful and insightful article but it is like watering a rock for all the good it will do. Bolt and his fellow travellers do not have the empathy, dare I say the intelligence to understand the contradictions that they are. As you say, everything must fit into their world view. If you want confirmation, look at the ridiculous response from Max Headroom. Typical Bolt disciple. Facts are irrelevant, if the narrative does not agree, change the narrative.

    • Adam Diver says:

      11:34am | 28/07/11

      Bolt certainly went to far on this issue. But most of his posts have been a direct response to people linking this individual to some group or political body.

      Anyone without an axe to grind could see that, and I doubt be able to get a full article to attack an opposing columnist. The reason Bolt is popular is because he does not speak down to is readers, he doesn’t treat them with the same contempt as this author clearly has.

      “His world is simple: make it about us and them, make people angry and afraid, and watch your page views tick over.”

      Talk about generalisation. How about we stick to debating the points, and not over-reaching our argument into percieved infringements, like someone else whom we are critical of. It smacks of hypocrisy and desperation.

      To finish off

      “Abu Suleiman al-Nasser, an Islamist with links to Al-Qaeda and other Islamic extremist groups, has claimed responsibility for today’s bomb in Oslo.

      The ‘Helpers of Global Jihad’ group, of which al-Nasser is a member, made the claims in an email circular issued to various sources. The group does not appear to have any past history. “

      Bolt linked to this report, he provided the sources of his initial assumptions and then updated as he was corrected. I am trying to find out what the outrage is about. Here is a link to the news as reported by Bolt, if anyone wants context beyond mr Lemon who could not even be bothered to link to the article in question

      http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/P75/

    • nihonin says:

      11:48am | 28/07/11

      Grumbles says ‘As you say, everything must fit into their world view.’  So I guess this comment fits both the Left and the Right ideals ‘world view’.  It’s a paradox.

    • andye says:

      03:02pm | 28/07/11

      @Adam Diver - So what you are saying is that, based on the incorrect early reports it is understandable that a lot of people incorrectly linked this act to certain groups and beliefs.

      However, based on the actual facts it is wrong to link this act to certain groups and beliefs.

      OK I think I see your point. What is most important here is that he isn’t Muslim so we should make any assumptions or speculate. Thanks.

    • rita says:

      06:12pm | 28/07/11

      I think Andrew Bolt should apologise not only to the Muslim community. He should apologise to me. I am Christian.
      But first of all, he should apologise to the families of the murdered kids.
      He makes a mockery of Islam
      He makes a mockery of Christianity
      He makes a mockery of journalism

      Some odd journalists forget that their primary duty is to REPORT the events not to INVENT them.

      I would suggest Mr. Bolt to start writing some sequel to Harry Potter.

    • Roswell Gazette,Editorial and Dissent says:

      06:42pm | 28/07/11

      Breaking News from Canberra is the Waffen SS will be reestablished to monitor the Media especially that Murdoch fellow,who is massively wealthy and does not share it with the Greens, a serious offence under the Lunacies Legislation of Christine Milne,but not the ABC as they have been indoctrinated and Lobotomized previously.Josef Goebbels and L Rhiannon will be the sole Administrators,answerable only to Browns Shirts

    • Kim says:

      07:38pm | 28/07/11

      @Sceptic

      Is Bolt a journalist? I think he’s just a columnist. Regardless, his response to this latest tragedy comes as no surprise. He has plenty of form in these instances. Readers will recall that along with some of the worst right wing commenters here on the Punch, he couldn’t even wait until the corpses were cold before celebrating the deaths at Christmas Island.

    • melle says:

      08:34pm | 28/07/11

      As long as you, Kim, don’t celebrate death before the corpse is cold, then all’s well.

      It’s not Andrew Bolt, journalist or columnist, that scares so many -  it’s all his supporters, isn’t it.
      What to do, hey

    • Kim says:

      08:55pm | 28/07/11

      @ melle

      All’s not well at all while Bolt and right wing commenters here on the Punch are celebrating deaths.

      “What to do” is easy. Denounce him and them every time they do.

    • DaveinPerth says:

      09:29pm | 28/07/11

      Geoff. Don’t count on a bonus cheque from Rupert this Xmas.

    • Sceptic says:

      12:40am | 29/07/11

      @max headroom

      Sounds like you have a little too much space inside that headroom.  I wasn’t referring to Bolt, I was referring to the entire journalistic standard.  As for ‘leftist elite’- thanks I laughed my arse off.  You couldn’t BE more wrong.  Name calling shows you have little substance in your argument.

    • atthepub says:

      06:13am | 28/07/11

      Like you say Geoff, it’s all in the interpretation.
      When God said, Do not kill, which part of that did you not understand?

    • Will S says:

      08:31am | 28/07/11

      He says it in the Koran too, in numerous places… but that doesn’t count.

    • Tedd says:

      08:44am | 28/07/11

      Good to hear God is finally channelling wider society & its ethics and laws.

    • ankles says:

      08:46am | 28/07/11

      You’re not that smart are you?

      You have to READ the article before you comment. READ the WORDS, make sure you UNDERSTAND what the WORDS say, and THEN make your little comment

    • Dan says:

      09:27am | 28/07/11

      Oh wow, you really didn’t read any of that did you.

      Either that, or the message just went straight over your head.

      As I tell my young child, perhaps it’s best to just think a little before you speak.

    • atthepub says:

      10:18am | 28/07/11

      Dear Dan and ankles just for your sakes quoted from the article above:

      quote //It completely omits the inconvenient Old Testament, a patently insane and brutal document characterised by a God so jealous and vengeful he might have been auditioning for Once Were Warriors. This is the God of both the Christians and the Muslims, I might point out, and He slaughtered cities, tribes, and at one point the entire world. He’s still the Church’s main squeeze.// unquote

      So I repeat, It’s all in the interpretation. When God said, Do not kill, which part of that did you not understand?

    • Dan says:

      10:45am | 28/07/11

      It’s a real shame you stopped reading there, you missed the best bit.

      “And while the New Testament indeed forbids violence, it is the far less relevant half of the Bible in Christian politics….the deeply religious rhetoric of the United States routinely favours the Old Testament eye for an eye over Christ’s call to turn the other cheek.”

      The Bible does say ‘Do not Kill’. It also says ‘Kill’ plenty of times. The point is - both the Bible and Koran are full of mixed messages, and people pick and choose to suit their cause all the time.

    • Verity says:

      10:49am | 28/07/11

      When I see Geoff Lemon’s name in print I shudder because I know there will be the usual riding of high horses, drawing of long bows and much deriding of anyone who doesn’t share his point of view. This fellow loves to denigrate. Watch out, or he will drop the ‘C’ word on you. And I don’t mean ‘crap’. Crap is my word for his writing.

    • Timmy says:

      12:11pm | 28/07/11

      Actually, if you read from the Hebrew, the verb “kill” is not specific enough ... a better translation of the command is “Do not commit murder”

      This is very different to “Do not kill”.

      Dan: This should clear up many of the mixed messages you are getting from the bible about killing ... and then present a whole heap more in other places.

    • Marilyn Shepherd says:

      03:32pm | 28/07/11

      psssst.  God was not real.  Men made him up.  Doing bad things in the name of an imaginary friend is just a cover up.

    • atthepub says:

      04:39pm | 28/07/11

      That’s exactly my point Dan, people pick and choose to suit their cause all the time. God never slaughtered anyone. God said, don’t kill and yet people killed in his name.

      His son came to earth and said, you guys just don’t get it do you? I’ll repeat what was said before (by my Father) and I’ll make it very very clear for you, I say not only, don’t kill each other but even if you just hate each other, you’ll be in trouble.

      Yet people continue to kill in the name of God. Just like you said, the bible said kill. Well yes, people who wrote the bible said that God gave them permission to kill. He didn’t.

      The truth is that God gave ten commandments and one of them says, Do not kill. So God said, Do not kill.

      Then people say that God and the bible tell us to kill.

      Well, no. God said, Do not kill.

      Then people killed in his name. That is the distinction.

    • Austin 3:16 says:

      06:01pm | 28/07/11

      Hey there ATP

      Which god is the non-killing one? The Christian one has killed millions according to his book.

    • Tom says:

      10:30pm | 28/07/11

      Verity, nice to see you couldn’t actually name anything in the article you disagree with. By all means criticise the points made in the article; that is the point of such a website. But if you are just going to attack the writer, why exactly did you bother?

    • Pamela says:

      10:03am | 29/07/11

      LOL @Verity - cause that NEVER happens here on The Punch.  Can you point me to an article where anyone with a view opposing the usual right-slanted majority is not denigrated by those “intellectually superior” like yourself? No you can’t cause YOUR horse is actually TOO high.  Know what the word hypocrisy means?  An ignorant sheep sitting on a horse, amusing…

    • Sceptic says:

      06:27am | 28/07/11

      ‘Perhaps Bolt can help me arrange to have the culprits deported to Riyadh.’

      So you are not opposed to denigrating others freedom of speech I take it?

    • Caitlin says:

      08:49am | 28/07/11

      SATIRE. Please, people, look it up.

    • Sceptic says:

      08:59am | 28/07/11

      @Caitlin

      Pay heed to your own advice.

    • Erin says:

      10:26am | 28/07/11

      @Sceptic
      If you are saying this comment is satirical all I can say if FAIL. You are one giant fail.

    • Sceptic says:

      12:44am | 29/07/11

      @Erin

      Thanks for your inciteful contribution.  Come back next time when you actually have a thought.  We can all celebrate, since we know it will be your first one.

    • GC says:

      06:29am | 28/07/11

      The channel 9 today show last Saturday morning were suggesting Islam fundamentalists too, then I switched over the channel 7’s sunrise and so were they.

    • Denny Crane says:

      08:11am | 28/07/11

      Dont let that sort of fact get in the way of kicking a conservative.

    • Que says:

      08:46am | 28/07/11

      And BBC, and Al jazeera. All the security experts were pointing to the same.

    • RobC says:

      08:46am | 28/07/11

      And…? Did they keep kicking the Muslims once the facts became known?

    • SueB says:

      08:59am | 28/07/11

      Why are so many opinion writers obsessed by Bolt, another opinion writer.  Lemon’s fear of him is palpable. Geoff Lemon should remember that Bolt writes an opinion article in a tabloid newspaper and blog.  He has a very small television show.  His influence is minute compared to other media, especially television.  Somehow, others’ mistakes get overlooked by those who disagree with Bolt.  I think the key word here is disagree.

      Does Geoff Lemon think Bolt has the power to influence an election or something?  Wouldn’t it be interesting to ask if Geoff Lemon would grant Bolt a licence as a fit and proper person to publish a newspaper.

    • Reggie says:

      09:24am | 28/07/11

      Oh dear, no-one is game to mention the Nazis and where is Sony B Goode when he’s needed to support a right-wing conservative. No doubt he’s changed his handle to Denny Crane or something even more tasteless.

      Onya lads.

    • Reg says:

      10:09am | 28/07/11

      @ SueB

      I was wondering the same thing… lefties seem sh*tscared of Bolt… just one guy with a microphone!!

      This guy’s article reeked of fear as well.

      To the lefties take note, its hard for the rest of us in society to take you seriously when all you do is bitch, moan and generally act like a bunch of pussies…

    • Sam says:

      10:24am | 28/07/11

      I was watching the BBC when the events first started to unfold. They were saying there were reports of it being a muslim terrorist attack.
      Seems alot of people were jumping to the same conculsion.

    • Markus says:

      11:05am | 28/07/11

      “I was wondering the same thing… lefties seem sh*tscared of Bolt…”
      It is actually the exact opposite. Bolt is the easily attackable face of the ‘enemy’ that the left are battling against. They can criticise him to their heart’s content without fear of any real repurcussion.

      Similar to how modern day women’s rights activists harp on endlessly about inane crap like glass ceilings and 17% pay inequity, while remaining suspiciously quiet on gross human rights violations against women in 3rd world and fundamentalist theocratic countries.

    • Edward says:

      11:07am | 28/07/11

      @ Reg

      Lefties bitch and moan do they? It seems that all conservatives do is bitch and moan. But the thing is, it’s mostly at other social groups, you know, the small ones with less of a voice; the refugees, the immigrants etc. They’re ruining the country apparently.

      I personally think xenophobia is pussy.

    • Edward says:

      11:08am | 28/07/11

      @ Reg

      Lefties bitch and moan do they? It seems that all conservatives do is bitch and moan. But the thing is, it’s mostly at other social groups, you know, the small ones with less of a voice; the refugees, the immigrants etc. They’re ruining the country apparently.

      I personally think xenophobia is pussy.

    • VVS says:

      11:48am | 28/07/11

      @ Edward - “I personally think xenophobia is pussy”

      Epic grammar fail, buddy. No thanks necessary.

      Also, you can’t eat xenophobia…

    • Lee says:

      12:34pm | 28/07/11

      @ VVS

      Funniest comment I’ve read on The Punch for ages! Keep up the good work!

    • Bruce says:

      03:57pm | 28/07/11

      GC. I was in China when the news broke. Same assumptions as our TV stations as on their TV, including Fox, BBC world, CNN etc etc.

    • Bruce says:

      03:57pm | 28/07/11

      GC. I was in China when the news broke. Same assumptions as our TV stations as on their TV, including Fox, BBC world, CNN etc etc.

    • undertow says:

      06:30am | 28/07/11

      Fantastic article. Poking the beehive. Cue Piers Boltbrechston mindhive confected outrage at your insolence… Don’t worry, these bees buzz a lot but they have no sting.

    • Socrates of The Hills (NSW) says:

      10:08am | 28/07/11

      How do you breathe with your head stuck up your arse ????

    • Swinging Voter says:

      10:25am | 28/07/11

      Arew you the same Socrates of the Hills that comments on the Bolt Blog?

      It’s good to see you’ve come over here and brought the level of conversation with you.

    • Socrates of The Hills (NSW) says:

      10:48am | 28/07/11

      Are you the same moron that posts on Andrew’s blog ???

      The only way you swing is to the far left. What a pompous arse you are to imply you reside in the political middle.

      You make Billy-Bob Brown look like a conservative !!!!!!!!

    • undertow says:

      11:59am | 28/07/11

      The air is fresher in there since you turned up.

      How’s Hillsong going for you?

    • Lamenting the death of rhetoric says:

      12:29pm | 28/07/11

      Time to lay off the cask wine Socrates. Interesting that you don’t use language like that over on the Bolt Blog, as you know you’d be snipped/banned.

    • Chris L says:

      11:05am | 30/07/11

      Indeed Socrates, only people who agree with everything from the right wing and despise everything from the left can be considered to be fair and balanced eh?

    • Stevo says:

      06:31am | 28/07/11

      Geoff, you do realize you are going to get pounded on this site. I though it was a good read though. A tragic affair and unfortunately a desperate and tragic response by some. Bolt’s words sound like Moe Syzlack’s from the ...“I knew it was the immigrants, even when it was the bears I knew it was them”.

    • Socrates of The Hills (NSW) says:

      10:33am | 28/07/11

      Well Stevo, when you write shit and pass it off as journalism, of course Geoff will get pounded. Where is his article about the daily murders by Muslims of Muslims throughout the Middle East etc.

      That’s the trouble with you friggen leftoids. Anything conservative or Christian and you go for the jugular. Anything leftist, atheist or Muslim and it is a protected subject only to be swept under the carpet at the ABC, SMH, Age etc .

      By my count this year the body count is as follows:

      Muslims killing Muslims 200,000
      Christians killing Christians 100

      Lets see a story on why Muslims are the mass murderers of the world !!!!!!!!

    • static says:

      10:58am | 28/07/11

      well Christians hmm The Australian Christians kick up a stink when Muslin schools are being build caus Australias a christian country. They then complain when people are offended by Christmas carols and santa cause Australias a Christian country. But any one coming here for asylumoh no send them away.Thats convenient christianity and not the Christianity the man Jeses espoused,but he was a bit of a lefty wasnt he

    • Swinging Voter says:

      11:01am | 28/07/11

      Ah Socrates, it is you!

      The Bolt Bloggers are swinging in on cue.

      Get ready for more of the polarised us vs them propoganda, and a die hard belief that numbers in a factually unsubstantiated body count are a valid excuse for misleading the public on important issues.

      Oh, and see commentary above on the likely responses. Remember, by disagreeing you’re either PC, or threatening their freedom, or part of an arch conspiracy. Because Bolt says so.

    • Ruby says:

      11:32am | 28/07/11

      Another great article from Geoff Lemon. I generally don’t take Punch commenters very seriously, so don’t take it to heart Geoff. As you’ve probably noticed, the standard here is even lower than on most other news sites.

    • Stevo says:

      12:13pm | 28/07/11

      Socrates, you’re a clown. Why would “atheists” hold Muslims as a protected subject but not Christianity? It’s absurd.

      The fact is, it’s extremists/fanatics that are the problems, not the 80-90% of religious and non-religious people. The fact you continually harp on about Muslims suggest you’re in that 10-20% of extremists, the dangerous people who just can’t get along, while the rest of us live fine and have great lives mingling with people from all different walks of lives with no problems.

      Oh and the irony of a Bolt loving deriding someone else about journalism qualities, laughable.

      In case you didn’t realise either, there are plenty of consevative commentators in Fairfax newspapers and on the ABC as well (it seems mandatory that the IPA is contacted for every story these days).

      I just don’t think you can hack anything other than you’re extreme views.

    • andye: says:

      04:26pm | 28/07/11

      @Socrates of The Hills - Apparently you need constant reminders of Muslim terrorism. Is this because of the dementia?

      Perhaps this story is of interest to the left BECAUSE WE WERE TARGETED. I mean, try and think about it with that tiny little smudge of forgotten cells inside your skull. If you really, really, really, really try to think, maybe it will happen. A synapse will fire and before you know it, you are (somewhat) sentient. If a thought does in fact occur inside that cold empty space between your ears, try and consider that this event might actually mean something to other people that it doesn’t mean to you. Like imagine if some commie leftard muslim gay aboriginal terrorist (certainly not a madman or lone wolf!) attacked a conservative youth camp. Do you think that might mean something to you? Do you think a whole bunch of leftists coming in and telling you what to think about it might be offensive?

    • Sceptic says:

      06:32am | 28/07/11

      I have been trying to get Erick to acknowledge and condemn Christian violence in the name of their religion for days now.  He keeps running because he is aware it ruins his stance that Islam is the only religion that endorses/features violence.  Why do you run when people identify your selective bias Erick?

    • Damian Parkhill says:

      07:26am | 28/07/11

      @Sceptic, I’m beginning to suspect its not the real Erick of late - all this version seems to do is to act like a right wing fanatic, attack anything he doesn’t agree with as being ‘to the left’ like somehow leftist ideals were the reasons behind the worlds problems, fails to make intelligent debate and seems to be trying get people to follow him via ‘group-ism’ which is something he is meant to stand against.

      Either that or his finally made the transition from intelligent human being into a complete despot….......

    • Erick says:

      08:07am | 28/07/11

      @Sceptic - I acknowledge and condemn Christian violence in the name of their religion.

      There, happy now?

      I’ll go further, and acknowledge and condemn violence in the name of any religion, or no religion at all.

      It just happens that some religions are more prone to violence than others.

      One religion’s followers kill more people every week than Breivik did in his whole life.

      Funny how few people are willing to acknowledge and condemn that.

    • MarK says:

      08:23am | 28/07/11

      Slow down sceptic.You are over excited.

      Get all your thoughts together and pop them in one post.

      Deep breath.

      In…and out…now focus.

    • Peter says:

      08:31am | 28/07/11

      From what I have read this lunatic didn’t kill “in the name of his religion”.

    • Sceptic says:

      09:02am | 28/07/11

      Hi MarK,

      How’s anger management?  Resolved the mother issues as of yet?

    • James1 says:

      11:19am | 28/07/11

      “I’ll go further, and acknowledge and condemn violence in the name of any religion, or no religion at all.”

      Fair enough, Erick.  I just don’t understand why you and others see the need to shift this conversation away from the topic, and onto another topic.  It looks a lot like you are just playing interference, rather than actually wanting to discuss this series of events.  To invert the situation, once the next Islamist terror attack happens, will you be happy if people were to constantly attempt to shift the topic to this fellow’s rampage?  Would you accept that as a legitimate debating tactic?

    • Erick says:

      12:35pm | 28/07/11

      @James1 - I’d suggest it’s likely that several Islamist terrorist attacks have already occurred around the world since Sunday. They’re that common.

      It is of course inevitable that people will bring this up whenever the next well-publicised Islamic attack occurs.

      Since some people are trying to blame Christianity for this attack, I’m putting things in perspective. The deaths caused by Christian terrorist attacks are outnumbered around 1000 to 1 by the deaths caused by Muslim terrorist attacks.

    • James1 says:

      01:02pm | 28/07/11

      Very true Erick - there was one this morning - an assassination attempt against the governor of Khandahar.  In any case, I don’t buy that this was Christian terrorism, any more than I buy that Islamists are representative of Islam.

      Furthermore, you dodged my question, and my overall intention.  What you say is true, but why is it relevant?  How do you consider these constant distraction to be a constructive contribution to the discussion?  How can you seriously argue that you are not just running interference, and trying to distract attention from this event, and what is your purpose in doing so?  It is not like you to avoid engaging with the point.

    • Erick says:

      02:14pm | 28/07/11

      @James1 - I don’t see where you’re getting the idea that I’m somehow avoiding the issue. My first comment in this thread was a direct answer to Sceptic’s direct question to me. My other two are answers to your questions. What exactly am I avoiding?

      I addressed the whole issue of the Norwegian terrorist at length in the big thread on Monday. Do I need to repeat myself?

    • James1 says:

      02:30pm | 28/07/11

      I don’t think that you are putting anything into perspective at all, Erick.  That is why I don’t think you are answering my questions.  How are the actions of people who have nothing to do with this relevant to this?  In what way do you think you are making a constructive contribution by constantly reiterating that, while this fellow is bad, Muslims are worse?  Do you really see these distractions and topic changes as engaging with the issue?

      Are you saying that, now that you have put forward your views on the matter on Monday, you can forget the actual event itself and get back to getting stuck into Muslims on threads about a terrorist from Norway?

    • Erick says:

      04:16pm | 28/07/11

      @ James1 -

      OP mentioned Muslims in the main article. Sceptic mentioned Muslims in his direct question to me. I mentioned Muslim in my answer to Sceptic.

      Then you started questioning me, and I answered you.

      As far as I can recall, those are the only times I’ve mentioned Islam in relation to this article at all - and all were related to questions which raised the topic.

      The main topic of this whole story is to attack Andrew Bolt. I’ve addressed that in a couple of comments in other threads.

      What is it exactly that you think I should be talking about?

    • James1 says:

      04:39pm | 28/07/11

      Fair enough Erick - I withdraw my questions.  My questions are motivated by a sense that you are not your usual self since all this happened.  It feels almost as though you are shocked that someone from the right end of politics could do such a thing, and feel the need to remind us that other ideologies also motivate extreme violence.  This is in contrast to your usual style.

      As conservatives, we have nothing to answer for with this fellow, just like most Muslims do not have to answer for Islamist violence, and most lefties don’t have to answer for communist violence.  These “yes this guy is bad, but Muslims are badder” style rhetoric does not match up to your usual standard of debate.  Remember, you do not need to apologise for the far right, any more than a Labor supporter need apologise for Stalin.

    • Erick says:

      06:01pm | 28/07/11

      Well, James1, I kind of feel we might have been arguing in circles here. I do acknowledge that this killer is motivated by fear of a Muslim takeover, is right-wing, and at least nominally Christian. He does, in fact, hold some of the same beliefs that I do.

      But I choose not to use violence as my method. I think persuasion by repeated display of facts is more effective in the long run.

      However, in this particular corner of this particular thread, I was answering a challenge from Sceptic. Who, incidentally, claims that I run away when these issues are brought up. Yet, I notice one person is conspicuously absent from this conversation, and it isn’t me ...

    • andye says:

      02:10am | 29/07/11

      @Erick - I think you are right. This does all tie back to Islam, just not in the way you think. It ties back to 9/11. Bin Laden succeeded in provoking wars between Islam and the west. He succeeded in driving a wedge between us and them. The more hate speech that came out of the right wing, the better. These extremists want to provoke. They want to escalate conflict. A worldwide jihad would be like their wet dream. The fact they managed to divide the west against itself just seems to be a happy bonus.

      Meanwhile, the kind of right wing rhetoric that you seem to deny ever hearing does exist. I have heard talk of “appeasing” Muslims, basically when we do anything other than treat them with suspicion and derision. I think that the only thing that was being appeased over the last decade or so was the extremists. You think all this bigotry that our society is currently awash with disappoints the actual extremists, the terrorists? Its exactly what they want. An enemy to unite the people behind them.

      You know what is sad, what is really really incredibly sad? After 9/11 the angry response from the american right in particular, let these extremists speak for the whole of Islam. Billions of disparate people spread across the globe, and it took so very few to hijack their voice.

    • Felix says:

      04:41pm | 29/07/11

      @Erick
      “One religion’s followers kill more people every week than Breivik did in his whole life”

      Do you realise that sentence doesn’t actually mean anything? You’re essentially asserting that 1.5 billion people across the entire world kill more people in 7 days than 1 person did in 1 day in a small Northern European nation. It’s utterly redundant and by no means even sensical, let alone convincing evidence that Muslims are more violent than Christians.

      No religion is prone to more violence than another. That’s a completely naive interpretation and one which ignores every other factor in the equation, each of which on their own can be argued to outweigh that of religion, including distribution of wealth; foreign occupation; displaced populations; pre-existing wars; access to resources; lack of recognition of sovereignty and on and on and on. Religion is a motivator, certainly, but we need only to look to the crusades for historic evidence of Christian violence and then check back in every few years from then, all the way up to the Bush administration.

      There is a debate to be had here, but your semi-articulated comments are not hitting the mark.

    • Mahhrat says:

      06:41am | 28/07/11

      The problem with this article is that while the opinion is certainly a valid one for debate, it’s essentially engaging Bolt in a race to the bottom.

      Bolt and his readership are no more interested in rational, reasoned debate than the frothy-latte sippers of the extreme left.

      Everyone who’s kind of in the middle ends up in an ever more metaphorically violent tug-of-war.

      Both sides of the debate, in trying so hard to fight each other for your vote, have indeed forgotten why they are fighting.  They just want to “win” now, they don’t care who gets hurt.

      Meanwhile, those of us who lean neither too far one way or the other end up disenfranchised.  Is it any wonder so many of us are turning to third options, or even refusing to vote (either politically or otherwise)?

    • Redeker Plan says:

      07:19am | 28/07/11

      Agreed Mahrat.  The discourse over at Bolt’s blog on the Norway massacre has been nauseating.  Some of the contributors that are usually on his cheer-squad have called him out on it, but a lot have not.  Some were even supporting Glenn Beck’s smear of the victims at the Labour Party Youth camp as being kind of like the Hitler Youth.  Just disgusting, and yes, it all makes me feel like I’ve fallen down a particularly slimy rabbit-hole.

    • iansand says:

      08:22am | 28/07/11

      What sort of coffee do right wingers drink?  International Roast caterers pack?

    • Markus says:

      09:05am | 28/07/11

      “What sort of coffee do right wingers drink?”
      Black. Like our souls.

    • Luke says:

      09:12am | 28/07/11

      Agreed Mahrat, i have officially become a swing voter because of the behaviour of both sides of politics.  I like to be involved in politics but can’t stand the crap that both sides spin and wish we had better options at election time.

    • MarK says:

      09:14am | 28/07/11

      I drink tea sanderson. Coffee is so early 2000’s don’t ya know.

      What do you drink?

    • AdamC says:

      09:33am | 28/07/11

      I can’t bear talking about this unedifying article, so I will answer Ian Sand’s question instead. I tend to drink a long macchiato (sp), because too much milk dulls the flavour of the coffee and is effete and socialist.

      Also, following on from MarK, I often have a pot of tea when I go out for breakfast. Cafes tea offerings are so much better than they used to be.

    • I heart coffee says:

      09:37am | 28/07/11

      I’d wholeheartedly disagree that “frothly-latte sippers of the extreme left” are not interested in rational debate. Firstly, what do you base that on? Why is a side of politics that is arguably aligned with academia, and therefore debate and argument, no longer interested in debate?

      Secondly, why are latte sippers “members of the extreme left?” Do you have to be a leftie to drink a coffee, or drink coffee to be a leftie? Which one is it?

      Balderdash.

    • Rose says:

      10:02am | 28/07/11

      Luke, I would love to be a swinging voter but the presence of Abbott makes it impossible for me to even contemplate voting Liberal, Bob Brown and Sarah Hansen-Young make the Greens a non-option so what am I left with? At this stage I am left voting Labor but I would dearly love for Rudd and Turnball to get together and start something new, bringing with them the best of both sides!

    • Swinging Voter says:

      10:07am | 28/07/11

      Beware my friend the rise of the dark horse of Australian political propoganda: drinkers of non-fat skim chai lattes.

      You know there’s one sitting near you right now…

    • Timmy says:

      10:29am | 28/07/11

      A non-fat skim chai latte ..... that is what my right leaning father-in-law would call a cup of “why bother?”

      I am very interested in what the “why bother?” voters think on this issue?

    • James1 says:

      11:15am | 28/07/11

      I have lately abandoned coffee and other hot drinks, and take my caffeine from coke instead.

    • CynicalGoatWA says:

      11:20am | 28/07/11

      I find tomato juice first thing in the morning does the trick beautifully…..

    • Sam says:

      11:42am | 28/07/11

      Mahhart
      You are correct it is all a competition between the left and right.
      Both sides are as bad as each other in this race to the bottom.
      Neither side care about the victims, its all about point scoring for them.
      The left/right dont seem to realise that they have one huge thing in common, that both sides are comprised of human beings. You know those animals that are capable of immense destruction and cruelty in the name of making the world a better place according to their own belief system.
      Btw I drink neither coffee or tea. I drink hot chocolate.

    • Anne71 says:

      12:43pm | 28/07/11

      I also hate the “Chardonnay-sipping leftie” tag. I mean really, Chardonnay? PuhLEEEESE. That’s just so 1990s.  “Pinot Gris sipping Leftie”, if you don’t mind! wink

    • Doug says:

      12:47pm | 28/07/11

      Side note: What is it with the obsession rightwingnuts have with coffee? Like if you drink coffee that actually tastes good you must be some sort of tutu-wearing pinko eco-terrorist. If it will shut down this juvenile line of abuse I’ll happily switch to Blend 23 mixed with mud and small bits of glass instead of sugar.

    • AdamC says:

      01:07pm | 28/07/11

      Anne71, actually, chardy’s making a comeback. The term of abuse may come full circle as poseur lefties rediscover chardonnay in a less woody form.

    • MarK says:

      02:47pm | 28/07/11

      Goddamit sanderson I need closure. What beverage is your choice of poison…...

    • AFR says:

      03:01pm | 28/07/11

      You’re all wrong - you gotta be made of milo.

    • sylvie says:

      05:09pm | 28/07/11

      @AdamC,  Is that true -  about chardy making a comeback? 

      This is a really cheerful comment to find here, amongst all the frantic stuff.

    • Hank says:

      10:12pm | 29/07/11

      Actually iansand I must confess that I am right wing and drink extra strong skinny lates’.  God damn Im so confused now.  All this stereotyping is making me dizzy.

    • Tracey Conlan says:

      06:58am | 28/07/11

      Sometimes Bolt appears to enjoy causing maximum offense regardless of real life victims. One wonders what his more principled colleges feel when he uses such a disaster for his political agenda.

    • Erick says:

      09:12am | 28/07/11

      One wonders what more principled readers think when they see a rival columnist using such a disaster to attack Bolt personally.

    • Tedd says:

      09:21am | 28/07/11

      He’s using Bolts approach t the disaster to attack Bolt’s approach to the disaster.

    • Hamish says:

      09:49am | 28/07/11

      Tracey, probably a similar thing to what the colleagues of all the journalists pushing a political agenda by blaming the Norway tragedy on the ‘hate speech’ of BoltA, Jones, Blair et al feel.

    • Dan says:

      09:52am | 28/07/11

      You know Tedd, that would be true…if you defined Bolt’s approach as ‘writing a column’.

      But I didn’t see any of the fear-mongering, race-baiting rhetoric above that Bolt is so well known for.

      So no, he wasn’t really using Bolt’s approach at all.

    • fml says:

      10:11am | 28/07/11

      He wasn’t attacking him personally, he was commenting on his action, mainly his incorrect assumption that it was muslims that were responsible for the attack, then published it.

      Why do the right get upset when they stuff up and get called on it? do they think they are beyond reproach? why is it considered a personal attack when its commentary on their actions?

    • Tedd says:

      10:13am | 28/07/11

      Dan, I meant Geoff is having a go at Bolts approach (which Bolt has cultivated so much as to be Bolt)

    • Chris L says:

      10:18am | 28/07/11

      Erick, I’m certain I’ve heard you say words to the effect of “shame on you” when someone has pointed to a tragedy to score a point. This article seems to me to be doing the same.

      The other point this article seems to be making is that this cringe that Christian’s are feeling when people point out the gunman’s religion is how moderate muslims are made to feel whenever we condemn them for having a connection with terrorism. It’s something worth contemplating surely.

    • graham says:

      12:46pm | 28/07/11

      Erick, the bloke is not attacking Bolt personally by using the horror in Norway. Bolt used the horror in Norway to further his own dreadful philosophy, and the author condemns him for that. You, as most syncophants are prone to do, give your support to anything Bolt says.  I don’t know what you mean when you say “principled readers”, but I get the impression that it is not what decent people mean when they say it.
      Bolt is a blot on the page of democracy, and has shades of 1930ism about him. He is entitled to his point of view, but he should not use that extreme right-wing propaganda to stir others to ill-advised action. And the death of many should not be a springboard immorally used to stir
      discontent. Shame on you Erick.

    • Erick says:

      01:08pm | 28/07/11

      And the author of this article is using the atrocity in Norway as a springboard to promote his own horrible philosophy, as well as to attack Andrew Bolt. What’s your point?

    • graham says:

      01:53pm | 28/07/11

      My point Erick, as you well know, is that Bolt, Erick, and all of the other right wing fanatics will grab a whisper of an accusation and turn it into a shout. To try convincing people that anyone not of their liking is tarred with the brush of racist, terrorist, wierdo, et al.
      My second point Erick is that the author has no ‘horrible philosophy”, or did you just ‘forget’ to say what it was. Please inform us all of your reasoning. (What a silly thing to say!).  And please, don’t do your ” I go sideways” bit. It’s boring. And it shows where you come from.

    • James1 says:

      02:23pm | 28/07/11

      “And the author of this article is using the atrocity in Norway as a springboard to promote his own horrible philosophy, as well as to attack Andrew Bolt.”

      Many others are using it as a springboard to attack Muslims.  This is nothing more than a person with very radical politics taking those politics to their logical conclusion.  It is what the Nazis did, it is what the Bolsheviks did, it is what the Islamists do.  As such, the people using this event to attack Muslims, Christians, and leftists are all equally in the wrong.  This attack does not relfect badly on any of those groups, and those are discussion to be had in different contexts.

    • Reggie says:

      04:49pm | 28/07/11

      Graham “My point Erick, as you well know, is that Bolt, Erick, and all of the other right wing fanatics will grab a whisper of an accusation and turn it into a shout.”

      You forget also Graham that Erick and his ilk are also given to taking refuge is the sudden inability to understand. ” Ignorance of convenience.”

      I could be wrong, they might actually be rather stupid but I try not to be too harsh as part of my left inclined affability.  smile

    • atthepub says:

      07:08am | 28/07/11

      Also interested to hear from the punchers who called Breivik sane and intelligent a few days ago.
      To be able to identify with the mind of a madman to the point where one calls him sane and intelligent .. now that’s really scary.

    • Criminologist says:

      07:24am | 28/07/11

      @atthepub

      Probably because that is the way it has been reported:

      ‘This is clearly a sane person’—Norwegian intelligence chief Janne Kristiansen’

      http://www.cbc.ca/m/touch/news/story/2011/07/27/norway-attacks.html

      ‘A former classmate has recalled that Breivik was an intelligent student who often took care of people who were bullied.’

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anders_Behring_Breivik

      To be of the belief that such perpertrators are ‘insane’ is erroneous.  Generally speaking, the capacity to know the difference between right and wrong classifies someone has ‘sane’ in criminal law.  Evil however, is a completely different (but applicable) characterisation.

    • KH says:

      08:18am | 28/07/11

      Its convenient to write these people off as ‘mad’ or ‘insane’.  Its a simple way to explain these actions - why do you think murderers and abusers try to claim ‘insanity’ in court?  Nice little pigeon hole that absolves them of responsibility.  Truly ‘mad’ and ‘insane’ people do irrational things - often without any warning or pre-meditation - they are compulsive.  They generally don’t have control over themselves or their behaviour.  They also don’t generally have apparently ordered lives where they rent properties and spend years calculating their moves.  Clearly, Breivik is sane - he knew exactly what he was doing.  He was also intelligent - you would have to plan out such an extraordinary attack.  Surely you don’t think someone with below average intelligence would have got as far as he did. 
      Hindsight has 20/20 vision - only now are people saying he is ‘insane’ - no one picked it up before.  If having strange beliefs makes you insane, then all people who believe in sky fairies, aliens that came from other planets inhabiting our bodies, or that there is ‘life’ after death are all insane.

    • Erick says:

      08:19am | 28/07/11

      Why should we say anything, atthepub? We already showed you why you were wrong.

    • MarkS says:

      09:03am | 28/07/11

      Intelligent - Yes, Sane - Maybe, Evil - Certainly

    • Reggie says:

      09:47am | 28/07/11

      Atthe—I think you are missing Erick’s and Bolt’s need to label this person as “mad” “insane” or even “sad terrorist.”

      If the perpetrator is TRULY as sane as the right-wing conservative he depicts, then we have an even more serious problem.

      That’s why Erick insists he has shown you the error of your ways.

    • L. says:

      09:48am | 28/07/11

      “To be of the belief that such perpertrators are ‘insane’ is erroneous.”

      No it’s not.

      You’re confusing “sane” with “intelligent”.

    • Phil says:

      10:13am | 28/07/11

      Whats scary is the amount of people who underestimate others who do these things.
      You all foolishly wrote him off as a madman, insane etc which is a long way away from reality and is probably your way of dealing with the situation you cant comprehend.

      He has been planning this for a long time, everything that he seems to have planned has been carried out.
      It was very strategic and his actions all lead up to what he wanted.

      The diversion of the bomb, people who are not able to easily leave an island, his killing spree to get attention and to be taken as a serious threat, not swept under the carpet, his instant submission \ surrender when police arrived, everyone wanting to know why, his manifesto found online, now he has people willing and ready to listen to anything he has to say. Doesn’t mean they will agree or understand but they all want to know why.

      In a world where peoples attention spans seem to be <15 minutes he has taken very serious actions to make sure people are paying attention.

      How is that not intelligent? It really makes Port Arthur look like amateur hour, Bryant had no plan or other agenda he was just there to shoot people.
      There is always a human cost to war, if that war is started by one man or one country people will still die for what others believe.

    • fml says:

      10:14am | 28/07/11

      People say he is Insane and crazy to take away from the fact that he was a terrorist, why is it no muslim terrorists are insane or crazy? is it only the domain of christian terrorism? which means it doesnt exist, because he was crazy and not a true christian.

    • Swinging Voter says:

      10:31am | 28/07/11

      I managed to find his Blog the other day and was utterly drawn in by it.

      The man wrote like a chillingly CHILLINGLY normal human being. He just utterly believed in what he was doing and that it was the right thing to do. He regrets the kids but it was collateral damage.

      What’s even more worrying is that he talked about sending 8000 emails to “patriots and nationalists” around the western world including Australia who agreed with his ideas.

      He was recruiting. In our country. And getting responses.

      Now THAT is scary.

    • erick says:

      11:33am | 28/07/11

      @Reggie - What you’re missing is the point of this exchange.

      I am saying the killer is sane. Atthepub is saying the killer is insane.

      You, on the other hand, just seem to be confused, as usual.

    • Reggie says:

      12:02pm | 28/07/11

      No he’s NOT erick, you are once again putting your own twisted interpretation on what the “drunken fool” wrote.  smile Sorry Atthe.

      Here, have another read.  ” To be able to identify with the mind of a madman to the point where one calls him sane and intelligent .. now that’s really scary.”

      See? Indecisive due to substance abuse?

      Again for Erick, or for whom-ever erick is, ... The intention is for conservatives to escape being identified with the clearly expounded conservative motivation of their Norwegian counterpart.  Struggle as much as you like, but you still can’t escape.

    • Erick says:

      12:31pm | 28/07/11

      @Reggie - You’re getting even more confused.

      First you claimed I wanted to deny that the killer was sane and intelligent.

      Now you attack me on the grounds that I acknowledge the fact that he is sane and intelligent.

      Which is it? You’re contradicting itself. I don’t think there’s much point talking to you when you’re just babbling randomly like that.

    • sylvie says:

      12:51pm | 28/07/11

      @Swinging Voter:  Swinging Wildly, you say -  “I managed to find his blog the other day…...”.   
      Any idea how transparent that is?

      Keep away from the Bolta’s blog.  You’re too soft to be there.


      Andrew’s good-looking, isn’t he

    • Swinging Voter says:

      02:18pm | 28/07/11

      Sylvie, you do realise that I’m talking about Andrew Breivik’s blog, not Andrew Bolt’s.

      And I don’t care how good looking you think he is, the man gunned nearly 80 people and should not be supported.

    • MarK says:

      02:58pm | 28/07/11

      I must say even for reggie the inconsistencies here have gone beyond laughable to the truly memorable.

      gg trying to sort that lot out Erick

    • Ando says:

      03:05pm | 28/07/11

      Sylvie lobs ,Swinger smashes!

    • Semi Concerned Citizen says:

      03:21pm | 28/07/11

      Why does setting off a bomb to cause distraction and then going on to kill 90 people on an island mean you lack intelligence?

      If it makes you feel better call him insane and lacking intelligence but his actions don’t really reflect that. Yes he committed a heinous crime that dosen’t make him an idiot

    • sylvie says:

      03:31pm | 28/07/11

      Swinging Voter:  Yes, I do realise there are 2 blogs that interest you.  Breathlessly.  Chillingly.  Wildly.
      You’ve been following the Bolta’s blog for nearly a year?  You’ve seen all the old, conservative, Christians who visit his blog?  ‘course you have.

      You’ve been swinging all over here, with your “intensely passionate” cape flapping.

      James1 put up some Yeats -  last words should interest you.
      Max Redlands nailed G Lemon.


      Andrew Bolt is very attractive, isn’t he.  You agree?
      The unattractive G Lemon is offering his ‘better side’ to the camera?
      Hope my shallow last comments annoy you,  as much as your endless sanctimonious comments annoyed me.

    • sylvie says:

      03:39pm | 28/07/11

      @Ando.  Stay away, okay

      Swinger is sweating.


      Swinger is soft.

    • atthepub says:

      04:37pm | 28/07/11

      Two days ago I called him insane. You called him sane and intelligent. Yesterday in the news it is reported that his solicitor states that he clearly is insane. But the punchers know better than his own solicitor, a man of law and me @thepub clearly having insight into these kinda things smile

      You just keep ravin on whilst I have another one. Just don’t expect anyone to take you serious after this little blooper of calling an insane maniac sane and intelligent.

      Calling a person who just massacred a bunch of people sane and intelligent despite his solicitor calling him insane means that you’re lacking something somewhere. Maybe good judgment .. dunno.

    • Voxpop says:

      04:54pm | 28/07/11

      Sylvie - projecting much?

    • Reggie says:

      05:59pm | 28/07/11

      A good one Atthe but don’t expect those who subscribe to the “ignorance of convenience” to latch on. Their feigned confusion and inability to comprehend is a standard ploy when they’re nailed writhing to their stupidity.

      Drinks all round, except those two sullen bastards in the corner.

    • sylvie says:

      06:01pm | 28/07/11

      @Voxpop,  minion?

    • Reggie says:

      06:06pm | 28/07/11

      Here’s something you’ll understand Erick.

      “Women will never be equal to men until they can walk down the
      street with a bald head and a beer gut, and still think they are sexy.”

    • sylvie says:

      07:19pm | 28/07/11

      Oh yuck -  could you move your “very old men think they’re sexy” comment away, somewhere else.
      Hell.
      More and more squalid

    • atthepub says:

      08:33pm | 28/07/11

      Cheers.

    • Erick says:

      04:37pm | 29/07/11

      @atthepub - of course his solicitor is going to claim insanity. It’s the only legal defence he has.

      By the way, a solicitor is not a psychiatrist.

    • Reggie says:

      06:12pm | 29/07/11

      Erick, “By the way, a solicitor is not a psychiatrist. ”  But he may be, or he may have been in contact with one, so what’s your point Erick?

      Conservatives have a keen interest in his being judged insane. On the other hand IF he is in fact sane, then conservatives are in really deep shit.

      One may even venture to point out a Nazi racial overtone.  Were all the Nazi’s insane? After-all, they did things such as this right from the first steps into Poland in 1939 and no-one declared them insane. It would seem conservatives who agree with this man’s edicts are guilty by psychological association. AH was sane, he must have been to achieve the goals he did and certainly no-one has declared him insane.

    • Erick says:

      07:06pm | 29/07/11

      Oh, do grow up Reggie.

      How many times do I have to repeat the fact that I believe the killer is both sane and intelligent? You’re just babbling nonsense at this point.

      You clearly don’t understand anything about this case, or the issues at hand. I’m done wasting time on you.

    • Reggie says:

      09:59pm | 29/07/11

      Erick, “do I have to repeat the fact that I believe the killer is both sane and intelligent?”

      Believe what-ever you wish but what you believe has no objective support and is therefore not fact. If he -is- sane and intelligent, as you believe, then there are a lot of right-wing supporters on this very site who should be chained to their foot-stools. Yourself included.

      You don’t need me to point out your own obsession with gender inequality and it’s not a big step from intelligent racial resentment to intelligent gender resentment. Do I make myself clear?

    • Super D says:

      07:21am | 28/07/11

      Actually the only person I’ve seen use the Norwegian attack for political purposes was Christine Milne on ABC when railing against radio broadcasters and the free press.

    • Seanr says:

      08:30am | 28/07/11

      Shhh Super D, that doesn’t fit in with Geoff’s diatribe, not polite to mention that, being that this is his first article. My view is that Bolt gets mentioned a lot by a few people looking to increase hits on their own articles because without his name, they’ve really got nothing.

    • MarK says:

      09:12am | 28/07/11

      You got it seanr

      Bingo.

      Remember when BoltA was into Gillard and Labor becasue of the Xmas Island boatwreck? Well didn’t he cop it. Too soon. Using death for a political advantage. Blah blah blah.

      That simpleton in Brisbane Birmingham went off his tree with righteous indignation. It was hilarious.

      Now we have the admission from the government there were pull factors and part of the impetus for the Malaysian capitulation was to ensure no more tragedy occurs. Admission that they did have blame clear as day. Any apologies to Bolt?

      And here all the author has done is grab some dead kids and said look at how mean Bolt was. Same shit. I await with eager anticipation the demonisation of Lemon for using shot up kids as a platform to attack a writer.

      Love it.

    • Rhino says:

      09:46am | 28/07/11

      How about Jimbo Wallace and his sunrise 5 minute rant on the fact the Norwegian mentions computer games in his manifesto. No political point scoring there.

    • PatrickD says:

      12:33pm | 28/07/11

      Seanr, dead right Lemon head claims that BoltA is using this tradgedy for political purposes, but as Super D said Milne has been the one to use it to attack both christians and conservatives on TV. But its not just her, other pollies from the Greens and Labor are doing it too, as is columnists like that skanky Jill Singer too

    • AAAdam says:

      01:37am | 29/07/11

      Bob Brown also used the tragedy to push his agenda of tighter gun laws in Australia. Guess Mr Lemon missed that too.

    • Dark Horse says:

      07:22am | 28/07/11

      Middle East Expert Daniel Pipes gives a much more sensible analysis at http://www.danielpipes.org/10007/norway-terrorism-in-context.

      With Koran motivated violence happening in almost every part of the world, it’s no surprise that everyone first expected it to be an Islamic event. All those peaceful muslims who usually clap and celebrate when non-muslims are blown apart by their fellow mohammedans had to cut short their celebrations when they found to their surprise that it wasn’t a muslim job.

      Why everyone thinks this guy is insane is anyone’s guess. Don’t sane muslims kill people? Insanity isn’t a requirement.

    • Barry says:

      07:43am | 28/07/11

      Utterly ridiculous and inflammatory, Dark Horse.

    • Jimbo says:

      08:35am | 28/07/11

      ‘Daniel Pipes’ and ‘sensible’ in the same sentence? You’ve got to be kidding.

      Andrew Bolt’s rush to judgement (he wasn’t the only one) was classic prejudice—the blame was ‘pre-judged’. His behaviour says more about him than anybody else.

    • Voxpop says:

      05:02pm | 28/07/11

      http://www.loonwatch.com/2010/01/terrorism-in-europe/

      Europol Report: All Terrorists are Muslims…Except the 99.6% that Aren’t
      Looks like some facts are needed here - oh wait you guys don’t like facts maybe you could do a bolta and just copy and paste the first half of that headline to satify your prejudice.

    • Catching up says:

      07:38am | 28/07/11

      Mr. Bolt is wrong.  It is not about them and us.  It is about all of us.

    • Socrates of The Hills (NSW) says:

      10:43am | 28/07/11

      That will make a nice epitaph on your tombstone once you are beheaded for breaching sharia law…

    • Swinging Voter says:

      11:10am | 28/07/11

      Just taking a brief aside from the hate rant, Socrates, please notice:

      a) you’re trolling
      b) you’re expressing ideas the writer disagrees with
      c) You’re actually ALLOWED to post

      Unlike Andrew Bolt’s blog which censors ideas that disagree with his propoganda. I got two of mine put up and taken down yesterday because I called him a hypocrite, and already one person has commented here that they had the same done.

      Welcome to real freedom of speech.

    • Socrates of The Hills (NSW) says:

      11:41am | 28/07/11

      @Swinger:

      I would be lucky if Andrew posts 25% of my posts. And that’s not because of swearing like I can do on here - thank you moderators - hehehehehehe

      So stop your friggen conspiracy theories and your feigned outrage. Go pull another latte on your expresso machine sweetie !!!!!!!!!

    • Barry says:

      12:43pm | 28/07/11

      @Swinging Voter
      Andrew’s blogs usually have loads of comments all attacking him, so I don’t think this is the problem.  I think the problem is probably the quality of your comments.

    • Swinging Voter says:

      02:39pm | 28/07/11

      Well that’s the funny thing Barry,

      80-90% of my non-specific political comments get through
      20-30% of my comments criticising Bolt get through
      0% of my comments accusing Bolt of pushing an agenda or being a hypocrite get through

      and no difference in language between any of these. And having grown up since I was 13, I don’t engage in swearing marathons even when moderators allow me to. The only difference is the subject of my criticism. Bolt just doesn’t like people cirticising Bolt.

      I mean, seriously, who takes down posts AFTER they’ve been put up and AFTER people have started responding to them, just because they disagree with the opinion?

    • Blind Freddy says:

      01:36pm | 28/07/11

      Clicked the link and found it said it all. I stopped reading after that.

      Bolt is not alone - the world is full of bigoted idiots - fortunately not all of them have access to a platform from which to spew forth their bile.

      Cheers

    • Gregg says:

      07:53am | 28/07/11

      So is the author just out to attack Bolt and using such a tragic event to do so.
      Bolt like many others all over the planet were initially talking up Islamic Extremists and on one news broadcast I did hear Al Queada referred to.

      Is that Bolt and others jumped on the bandwagon anymore reprehensible than the author looking to use this event for his own vendetta?
      I think not.

    • Reggie says:

      10:09am | 28/07/11

      Then given your defense of such unqualified knee-jerk “news-gathering,” may we presume you do the same and henceforth skip over your normally effusive contributions?

      I perhaps need to point out to you that your input contains NOT one objection to imaginary news-presentation as fact. That means you have another agenda and that is to escape the shower of shit descending on conservatives by their indirect connection with this evil individual.

    • TChong says:

      07:56am | 28/07/11

      Dark Horse
      Quoting Pipes ? how about Horowitz ? Beck?
      Why not Brievik?
      Get all your ideas from FRONTPAGEMAG ?
      I’ll call you as a deliberate troll.
      No person that shares your ideas could possibly be part of any society.
      Your level of sociopathy is either a bung on, or if sincere should bar you from any unmonitored contact with a child.
      Thats as funny as your garbage, isnt it?

    • Matt says:

      07:59am | 28/07/11

      It’s Andrew Bolt… Enough said. The guy should be shot into the sun.

    • Anna C says:

      08:45am | 28/07/11

      Now now Matt, you know that physical violence is never the answer.

    • AFR says:

      09:20am | 28/07/11

      Anna’s right Matt, that’s Alan Jones’ job.

    • Matt says:

      10:45am | 28/07/11

      True Anna C, I’d let someone else light the fuse..  Perhaps Jones as AFR stated, then tie him to it too haha

    • egg says:

      12:30pm | 28/07/11

      @matt… you totally must be a muslim! that’s so violent!

      *dances around with a t-shirt stating “I AM BEING SARCASTIC”, you know, just in case*

    • Aidan says:

      08:07am | 28/07/11

      People actually LISTEN to Andrew Bolt???

    • Will S says:

      08:34am | 28/07/11

      Listen to his radio show, read his column and watch his TV show… where he talks about being silenced and how rich white men are being oppressed by Muslims and Aborigines, lol.

    • rob says:

      08:48am | 28/07/11

      Matt should hook up with Aidan….what a pair of…

    • Brizben says:

      09:24am | 28/07/11

      If you look at the rating for his tv show you will find not many people listen to him.

    • sylvie says:

      09:28am | 28/07/11

      You’re seeing it the other way around, aren’t you?  -  all those thousands of supporters consider Bolt their public VOICE.

      That must be ‘scary’ for you, Aidan

    • Lloyd says:

      09:54am | 28/07/11

      Took the words right out of my mouth.

    • Roland says:

      10:42am | 28/07/11

      I think a lot of his readers and viewers are tuning in just for a laugh. the guy’s a clown.

    • Matt says:

      10:47am | 28/07/11

      rob you didn’t finish your sentence, i’ll help you out -

      what a pair of…. handsom, insightful young lads that are just entitled to their opinion of a man as I am.

      Wasn’t so hard now was it? lol

    • Socrates of The Hills (NSW) says:

      11:11am | 28/07/11

      You fuckers just don’t get. Bolt is successful because he articulates the views of the majority which are currently supressed by the mainstream media. Look at his figures for The Bolt Report. He pisses on the ABC’s Insiders with viewers. Look at his page views. The most popular blogger in Oz. Look at the circulation between the Herald Sun vs The Age, The Daily Telegraph vs The Sydney Pravda Herald. People will only pay for what they want to read, not what they are told to read by Jooliar or Billy-Bob.

    • Dan says:

      12:15pm | 28/07/11

      Yo Socrates. I know you probably can’t go a day without a pep talk from Bolt, but it seems most of us aren’t suffering the same affliction.

      The Bolt Report averages around 300 thousand viewers a week. About 40 thousand more than Insiders, yes…but it’s hardly capturing the nation. And it’s been panned by critics from the left and right.

      MTR’s ratings since it’s launch have been nothing short of embarassing. Even accounting for ‘signal troubles’, it seems like Melbourne has the dial glued to the ABC, or the more moderate 3AW.

      Bolt claims to be ‘Australia’s Most Read Columnist’ - and the papers that print his columns certainly outsell their broadsheet rivals. But the format is similar around the globe - tabloids always outsell broadsheets. The success of the Herald-Sun and Daily Telegraph can’t be attributed to a once-a-week columnist.

      People do listen to Andrew Bolt. But not very many.

    • CJ says:

      12:20pm | 28/07/11

      @ Socrates of The Hills
      Ahhh, you’re Alan Jones, aren’t you mate?

    • undertow says:

      12:24pm | 28/07/11

      Nice one Socrates. You successfully contradicted your own claims with one gob full of your puerile spittle.
      “views of the majority which are currently supressed by the mainstream media.”
      So Bolt’s employers are promoting and publishing his work while suppressing “the majority”?  Unless of course you don’t believe that Channel 10 or News Ltd constitute mainstream media.

    • Lily says:

      01:33pm | 28/07/11

      @ Socrates of The Hills. No Andrew Bolt mearly provides you with neat little packages of fear to reguritate because you are too dumb and too lazy to experience the real world and be able to make your own logical conclusions. If you look at the demographics of his subscribers they aren’t actually an educated lot are they?
      Australia is full of uneducated bogans that fear others taking away their “entitlements” that they bludge so hard for.
      Quite frankly it is getting embarrassing.

    • Socrates of The Hills (NSW says:

      02:08pm | 28/07/11

      @ Lily:

      The professors at UNSW and CSU would be very upset for calling me a bogan after their exemplary education *sniggers*


      Maybe they didn’t indocrinate me enough *LOL*

    • hot tub political machine says:

      02:59pm | 28/07/11

      He gets attention - but calling those who give the attention people is misleading in how it normalizes the whole situation - even Bolt doesn’t take Bolt seriously - he just likes making money from those that do.

    • Brizben says:

      07:19pm | 28/07/11

      Dan and Socrates: I think you need to go to tv tonight website and look at the actual tv ratings. Insiders beats Bolt by 40,000 regularly.

    • Paddy says:

      08:14am | 28/07/11

      At least is prepared to debate people in public at any time.
      Semms our political leaders are not.
      I wonder why?
      Do they not have arguments or facts to support their position.
      The need to balance a budget and have money to spend and buy the hip pocket nerve at election time is a necessity and when the budget in in deficit it makes a difficult plank for election time.

    • Steve says:

      08:24am | 28/07/11

      You have written one of the longest articles i have seen on the punch and for what? To slag off Andrew Bolt? He was no different to the rest of us thinking that it was Muslim, it was coming from the country that way…....I have friends that are native to Oslo and live there saying the PM says we will fight them with more democracy…...that was later in the day…..you are have a problem with Andrew Bolt and have used this forum to slag him off and the way you have done it using emotional crap like we are idiots….Wake Up Geoff!

    • RobJ says:

      01:20pm | 28/07/11

      “t? He was no different to the rest of us thinking that it was Muslim”

      But Bolt is still going on and on and deflecting, his back pedaling is spectacular, his hypocrisy is massive, only an idiot or liar would say otherwise.

      “you are have a problem with Andrew Bolt and have used this forum to slag him off and the way you have done it using emotional crap like we are idiots…”

      So you’ve never actually read Bolt? I mean if you’re having a go at the author for using his blog to attack another then it’s evident that you’ve NEVER EVEN READ Andrew Bolt because smearing others via his blog is his specialty.

    • TomTom says:

      08:24am | 28/07/11

      “Even so,” Bolt went on, “the history of Islamic violence in Scandinavia suggests Muslim immigration there has been a bad deal for the locals.”

      Geoff Lemon, how can you sleep at night assuming we have people like Bolt living amongst us? The above is the only part of your article that makes sense at a time when the wounds of those that have suffered this atrocity are still very very raw is worse than what was said by Bolt and others. The world is shocked and for our sanity have to find an excuse for this evil carnage of human beings so yes the mad man used the ‘Muslim’ immigration as an excuse to committing this despicable act.

      Bolt is Bolt and we know his type, therefore doesn’t scare the living day lights out of me, it is people like Geoff Lemon that can write an article like this when the world is still in shock is scary.

    • Rover of North Cooma says:

      09:31am | 28/07/11

      What is scary about this article? Seriously? I really can’t understand your point.

      Are you saying that it is okay for Bolt to blame Muslims because we all know what he’s like, but that it’s not okay for Lemon to call him on it because it’s been less than a week since the killings and emotions are still raw? I really can’t make head nor tail of what you are trying to say, or why you are scared.

    • Reggie says:

      10:37am | 28/07/11

      TomTom I shall be gracious and give you the benefit of the doubt. That article was clear, concise and to the point, so you should have yourself checked for ADD.

      Mr Bolt and his supporters are hell-bent on severing any obvious connection between the violent offender and other right-wing conservatives, many of whom you will find haunting the subterranean depths of PUNCH.  Actually it’s crawling with them, when they’re not off hanging on Mr Bolt’s every inane utterance.

    • TomTom says:

      10:46am | 28/07/11

      If you don’t understand that the evil mad Breivik used Muslim immigration as an excuse for his evil despicable act it is okay with me. You assume whatever you want out of the article even if it means it is not okay for the author to have his vendetta against another person who has the right to have his say. You do that and allow Bolt and I to do the same. Thank God we have freedom of speech in this country. Yes it is people like yourself and Lemon that scares me!

      The author could have made his point without his vendetta against Bolt.

    • Reggie says:

      12:49pm | 28/07/11

      TomTom “You assume whatever you want out of the article even if it means it is not okay for the author to have his vendetta against another person who has the right to have his say. You do that and allow Bolt and I to do the same. Thank God we have freedom of speech in this country.”

      Tom ... the article was a RESPONSE to the observation that Mr Bolt was taking journalist license to the precipice.  This is a FACT ... no debate will alter that. He ...Mr Bolt, is now being matted for his low journalistic standards. Your attempt to label his critic as infamous for calling the Bolted one to task, is full of right-wing indignation and amounts to futile table-thumping.  Stop it at once!  wink

      PS ... We do not have freedom of speech in this place except that granted by the good-graces of our government and our moderators. The US is the place that has free-speech, the hurdle our constitutional originators baulked at.

      That face snarling at you from the mirror is yours.  Don’t trust him.

    • Tom says:

      01:18pm | 28/07/11

      I am a conservative but was truly shocked about what Breivik did.

      It is truly revolting how every catastrophe seems to beget a “profit making” opportunity for someone in politics. The Queensland floods were a naked opportunity for Bligh to “profit”. The Christmas Island drownings were a similar opportunity for the other side. The Gabrielle Giffords shooting in USA was a deranged lunatic, but instantly the left media trampled themselves in a rush to dump it on Sarah Palin and the Tea Party.

      I am not impressed that Bolt even tried to get in first and dissociate it from the right. Lemon’s boorish attempt to “profit” his side by whipping it all back on Bolt has all the hallmark’s of the “tittle-tattler” we all loathed at primary school.

    • Chris L says:

      10:14am | 30/07/11

      Both sides do it Tom. I’ve heard plenty of conservatives saying we should bend to their will in order to avoid such atrocities as this. A gentle nudge in the right wing direction.

    • The Badger says:

      08:31am | 28/07/11

      Slithering around in the slimy dark recesses of his mind, The Dolt stumbled upon Howard’s dog whistle.
      Like Gollum he knew it was precious and could be used to control the minds of those who are weak and easily lead.
      Now, Abbott and Dolt take turns using it whenever they can.

      The whistle should be seized and thrown into the fires of Hazelwood.

    • Tom says:

      02:26pm | 28/07/11

      Get a life Badger. This is not the occasion for your stupid doggerel.

    • The Badger says:

      06:31pm | 28/07/11

      You are right,
      This is far more serious than some f’n doggerel
      I’ll amend it for you.
        Slithering around in the slimy dark recesses of his mind, The Dolt stumbled upon Howard’s dog whistle.
        Like Gollum he knew it was precious and could be used to control the minds of those who are weak and easily lead.
        Now, Abbott and Dolt take turns using it whenever they can.

        The dolt should be seized and thrown into the fires of Hazelwood.

    • Tom says:

      08:08am | 29/07/11

      A bit of a “dog whistle” in Lemon’s article and you came running. Sit boy.

    • The Galah from Hervey Bay says:

      08:40am | 28/07/11

      Would anyone care to name the alleged Christian group/church/organisation/cult/etc etc . , with proof of it’s existence. ?

      The actions of an individual potential candidate for a padded cell are not automatically acceptable as being Christian principle , even if the lunatic claims he is a Christian Fundamentalist.

    • egg says:

      02:36pm | 28/07/11

      you afford the same level of analysis to any so-called “muslim” terrorist’s affiliations to the religion they claim to follow, i assume? oh wait, that would be fair… sorry, i keep forgetting where i’m posting.

    • Roger Crook says:

      08:41am | 28/07/11

      May I suggest that the banner at the bottom of this page be changed to read: Geoff, satirist, writer, Lemon, etcetera.

    • Reggie the Monster says:

      11:02am | 28/07/11

      Judging by the intellectual bankruptcy of your contribution, NO.

    • the apologist says:

      08:44am | 28/07/11

      The New Testament doesn’t forbid violence - like the Old Testament, it forbids individuals taking up violence for their own ends. The state being given the responsibility of using force for the purpose of punishing unlawful use of force is the Biblical standard (Romans 13). Biblical Christianity doesn’t divide the Old and New Testaments, it recognises the whole as God’s revelation.

      The use of force and punishment is unfortunately necessary in the world to execute justice in a world that is stricken with sin. Breivik is one such example - having no right to take the lives of others, the state should now execute justice on him.

    • Que says:

      08:48am | 28/07/11

      This blog is becoming the equivalent of ‘A Current Affair’. No serious commentary any more, just polarising rants designed to incite a flame war.

    • MarK says:

      09:13am | 28/07/11

      Of course.

      Look at the quality of articles we have to work with.

    • Chris L says:

      10:48am | 28/07/11

      Agreed Que. I think if we’re going in that direction there should be a score kept in each article as to how many comments hit their mark. Perhaps with an extra point if the comment is in some way clever, funny or presenting a view that has not been raised before.

      We could have Tory and Joe rate the comments since they both have a sense of humour and seem to lean toward opposite sides of the political divide.

    • Reggie says:

      11:37am | 28/07/11

      Not bad eh, a trio of Double Bay latte sippers dismissing all and sundry as beneath contempt.  And Chris L… what a total waste of oxygen. smile

    • Chris L says:

      12:03pm | 28/07/11

      Hello Reggie. Nice of you to join us wink

    • Reggie says:

      12:56pm | 28/07/11

      I was just passing by Chris and I spotted this supercilious trio dangling their droopy mustaches in their coffee cups. Though I suspect MarK may have been on Earl Grey. Now there’s an image NOT to miss. wink

    • MarK says:

      02:52pm | 28/07/11

      I like being supercilious. Sounds so awesome.

    • michael j says:

      08:49am | 28/07/11

      @Smoking-Joe , Jesus Christ mate that article was nearly as long as Ben Hur
      hope you did not expect me to read all of it , but i gleaned a Fact or two from it ,something about Muslim’s and you are jealous of Mr Bolt cause he has his own TV show and you don’t,,

    • ACS says:

      09:39am | 28/07/11

      “Bolt-Hater Outraged By Something Bolt Wrote”... is this Crikey East?

      Where’s Jeremy S, what screen name is he using today? He’ll be here to help put the boot in as well (but always under a different name), count on it.

    • Obese Andy says:

      08:44am | 02/08/11

      You got it totally wrong michael j, but as you are probably proud of your ignorance, I doubt that you’re worried. Maybe if you actually did read the article you might have a better grasp…..but then again, perhaps not wink

    • Max Redlands says:

      08:53am | 28/07/11

      ‘So, two instances of alleged offences that haven’t even gone to court. Not the most weighty habeas corpus ever to land on a judge’s desk.”

      This is one step short of gibberish.

      If they didn’t get to court how did they land on the judge’s desk?

      Do you even know what habeas corpus means?

    • Erick says:

      09:23am | 28/07/11

      Nice catch, Max!

    • Q. says:

      09:02am | 28/07/11

      Someone here mentioned Christine Milne as using the Norway massacre for political purposes.
      I have never felt so scared in my lifetime about what is going inside this government of our beautiful country. I’m dismayed that Green Extremist under-representation appears to be directing their Labor servants to shut down alternative opinion and free speech, pushing for a costly inquiry into independent Australian press with outburst accusations of ‘opinion bias’ (are the Greens expecting rights to adjudicate on opinion “bias” before the press write or say anything?). 
      I was truly shocked and remain fearful since that Q & A programme on Monday 25 July 2011 when ex-school teacher Milne domineeringly issued what sounded like a Green agenda for a highly restricted press.  The Green tone was harsh, accusative and unwarranted.
      I was reminded of communistic controls and suppression of public freedoms during the 1930’s era when various populations were brainwashed and too scared to speak out, oppose or indicate even mild dissent from fear of detriment to their wellbeing. Is this Extreme Green agenda the portent of what we will get in Australia if the Greens remain in control?  I’ve also picked up the snarling Combet “tone”  -  yet Labor power-brokers (including the doddering Hawke) are touting him as a future PM - andthat possibility could make matters worse.
      Rudd suddenly suggests that Labor distance itself from the Greens, further highlighting the complete Gillard shambles from her patronising Extreme Green orders in exchange for a selfishly, unpopular hold on power. Her damage in exercising such foolish conduct is a stain on the Labor history book. Extreme Green management of this country has been the final nail in Labor’s coffin.

      With the Hanson Hyphen “tone”, the Bandt over-exposure, the increasingly strange appearances and language from Brown, the Rhiannon episodes and their Extreme Green policies - my gut feeling is FEAR.  No Australian should ever feel earful of any political grouping. We may not have always agreed with minor differences, but the FEAR that goes through me whenever the Greens take central media stage is something I have never felt before - from either Labor or Liberal.
      Andrew Bolt’s opinions are his own - take them or leave them. But I do wonder if the Extreme Greens will attempt to shut him down. 
      But pity help Australia if this little group of puffed-up, under-representative self-important Greens, in their unhealthy partnership with an incompetent Labor Party,  got their way.

    • Bev says:

      10:36am | 28/07/11

      Spot on.  I saw Q&A she frightened me.  In talking to others I find I am not alone.  You have to ask the question who is controling the greens. Is it Christine Milne or is Uncle Bob using her as his attack dog? Either way another green senator chimed in saying she wanted the Murdoc media (newspapers) empire broken up which is I think the ultimate aim.
      I’m sure the greens know that print media is struggling with profitability and that Murdoc is subsidizing his papers to keep print media alive. If broken up most or many would just disappear.  They have an answer for that too.  A print version of the ABC (Australian Pravda?). Problem is if there is another GFC the world WILL descend into a 1930 style depression and the US will possibly withdraw from the the world stage leaving a power vacuum (they have done it before) as the American people are strongly questioning their presence in Iraq and Afganistan. We must also remember the depression enabled the rise of dictators on the left and the right and both were small rump movements who seized the moment.  A totally gloomy senario you bet!  Just hope it doesn’t happen.

    • Kim says:

      09:08am | 28/07/11

      Based on the comments here,Bolt has achieved his aim. Ignorant hate filled Australians : (

    • MarK says:

      09:45am | 28/07/11

      And lemon fulfilled his. Appeal to his target audience using Bolts tactics against him.

      Warfare started.

      Aim accomplished.

      I am thirsty and need a scratch….brb.

    • Swinging Voter says:

      09:08am | 28/07/11

      I think you missed a few of the updates Geoff,

      He’s also refused to accept that the man was a right wing fanatic (despite his target and published reasons) suggesting that his separation from his father and love of war games was in face the real motivations for the event, has repeatedly blasted the evil “leftists” for trying to “score points” by accurately reporting the contents of the manfiesto and blog.

      Yesterday he made a smug comment along the lines of “oh, by the way, it seems like he was raised by a marxist and a feminist “well, well, well”. In typical Bolt fashion he never said explicitly “ha! he talks like one of us, but he was RAISED by two of you!”, but Bolt loves to leave that sort of stuff unsaid and obvious.

      I tried to make comments similar to yours on his blog under this name, but then after they were initially put up, and other commenters on Bolt’s Blog responded, the moderator mysteriously reversed it’s decision to allow my comments and deleted my objections. This happened on at least two occasions.

      It seems the champion of freedom of speech only supports speech which agrees with his own.

      PS: they’ve mentioned you on the bolt blog, get ready for the crazies to start swinging in.

    • Doug says:

      09:57am | 28/07/11

      The same thing happened to my comments pointing out Bolt’s hypocrisy - briefly on the site then taken down. I decided that was the point at which I should stop reading Bolt’s rubbish. If his censorious moderators are going to remove the satisfaction of throwing rocks at his glass house then there’s just no point.

    • Terry says:

      12:10pm | 28/07/11

      No wonder you are a swinging voter! From your rant everything is taken seriously and in today’s Australian political climate if things are not going your way but to the political party that is miles in front you reveal to everyone that you are a swinging voter or you try to equate the two together making it look that they are both parties are bad. It is only Labor supporters that will try this tactic adding more confusion to those that do not follow politics but go out to vote because it is compulsory.

      At least Bolt doesn’t behave in this manner, like many of us he is not into playing your kind of tactics.

      This article is the kind of hypocrisy that normal Australian fans of Allan Jones have to put up with everyday when the broadcaster is doing his job. Give us a break and allow us to judge for ourselves not have it told to us because the author dislikes people like Bolt and Jones. I agree with Jones all a mob losers!

    • Doug says:

      12:50pm | 28/07/11

      Terry do actually have a coherent point to make? What an odd bunch Bolt’s supporters are.

    • RobJ says:

      09:36am | 29/07/11

      The other day When Bolt was criticising Turnbull for publishing a Troll’s phone number I reminded Bolt that he published a troll’s email address on his blog (contrary to News Ltd’s own policy) I went on to say that if the troll gave Turnbull his number then obviously the troll wasn’t concerned, he published that sentence but the first sentence that highlighted his rank hypocrisy was censored. The Mod who censored it mind you left the full stop from the previous sentence - LOL sloppy.

    • Hamish says:

      09:10am | 28/07/11

      So Bolt is bad for wrongly assuming (along with a multitude of other media sources who you obviously don’t care about for some reason) that Islamic fundamentalists committed the bombing. Alright fair enough. However, I would have thought it’s worse to knowingly suggest someone who explicitly says ‘I’m not going to pretend I’m a very religious person, as that would be a lie’ was somehow motivated by Christianity. And don’t pretend you don’t know he said this as you are clearly an avid reader of Bolt’s blog. Making a mistake is bad, being deliberately misleading is surely worse.

      That, and an article which uses someone else’s criticism of Islam as an excuse to denigrate Christianity displays a terrible lack of intellectual consistency.

    • Max Redlands says:

      09:10am | 28/07/11

      P.S. and a judge sits at the bench not a desk.

    • Rover of North Cooma says:

      09:35am | 28/07/11

      Yes but a judge also has an office with a desk, where he or she spends a good amount of time going through case papers when formulating judgments.

      Sounds like you’ve been watching too much Judge Judy and think that they give an on-the-spot judgment after both sides have presented their case.

    • Max Redlands says:

      10:12am | 28/07/11

      @ Rover

      Yes I am aware of that. Thank you so much all the same.

      And, just so you know, ex tempore judgments - particularly in courts of summary jurisdiction - are not uncommon.

      My knowledge of court rooms is based on 20 years of legal practice not a TV show.

    • Anna C says:

      09:27am | 28/07/11

      Bolt was in the wrong for declaring Muslim extremists responsible for the massacre in Norway. He did what most of us did when we heard about the attrocity; he jumped to conclusions and asssumed it was Muslim extremists. You could easily argue that this was a reasonable assumption to make given the violent acts committed by Muslims in the last ten years; unless of course you have been living with your head in the sand.  I reckon the current tally of violent acts must be something like Christian extremists 1, Muslim extremists 100.

      However Geoff, you are wrong when you say “The history of Islamic violence that Bolt was able to provide for Norway consisted of three men being arrested (not yet charged or convicted) for possibly planning an attack on either a newspaper or an embassy, no-one is quite sure; and a charge against a man for threatening a politician.”  According to recent article which appeared on various news websties, Norway’s Police reported that all rapes and sexual assaults committed against women in Oslo last year were committed by Muslims.  9 out of 10 of the victims were classified as white Norwegian born women. I suggest you check out the article yourselves at   http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/145161 . Now if these vile acts against Norwegian women are not considered violent acts, then I don’t know what is?

    • James1 says:

      11:09am | 28/07/11

      Hell, I assumed it was Muslims too - I don’t think we can fault people for making that assumption.

      What I find a little disturbing - and I am usually a fan of Bolt’s work, particularly on climate change - is his distinct lack of contrition, and his attempts to shift the discussion away from this recent events and onto the actions of the extremists Muslims in recent years.  There is an awful lot of this type of shifting topics going on.  Why this constant scorecard approach?  Does it help us understand what has happened?

    • tiny Dancer says:

      09:30am | 28/07/11

      Bolt did go off, as did everybody else but that happens when an extremist muslim group claims responsibility for the event straight after it happens.

      Secondly, Geoff Lemon is the last person who should complain anout the ethics of other journalists.  His own writings of a political nature show that he is inclined to the same thing that he now complains of.  It’s called hypocrisy.

    • Malleeringneck says:

      09:38am | 28/07/11

      All the leftwingers crying about the muslims leaving their countries to live in Europe, Australia, America and other anyplace that is not a muslim country.
      Then they want to force their religion, laws and ways down the throats of the people of the country they have gone to ( I think the word emigrated is inappropriate for them).
      If Islam is so good why didn’t they stay in the country they came from.?

    • fml says:

      10:39am | 28/07/11

      why didnt the british in 1788?

    • Paul Horn says:

      01:45pm | 28/07/11

      Who said living in Britain is good??

    • RyaN says:

      09:43am | 28/07/11

      Yawn, so just about every media outlet were speculating Islamic terrorism and you go ahead and completely discredit yourself by launching into an attack on Bolt. I agree Bolt got it wrong, so did just about every other media outlet!

      “As reports began to come in, it was the last subject in the world you would have imagined being used for political point-scoring.” Oh and Geoff, I believe it was Bob Brown who did in fact use it for political points scoring. Within hours of the incident he was parroting off a mantra about gun control.
      Strange how you failed to write an entire article denigrating Bob Brown on this blatant low political points scoring (since he is in fact a politician unlike Bolt).

      Hypocrite much mate?

    • TChong says:

      09:54am | 28/07/11

      Almost every media outlet was wrong.
      Shows just how much outright bigottry exists.

    • Swinging Voter says:

      09:57am | 28/07/11

      Gun control is a fair comment. The Oslo gunman writes in his blog (not the manifesto, the blog) that finding guns illegally was too hard (he went to Vienna and failed), so he just went and bought them legally in Norway. Even the rifle was legal.

      If he wasn’t able to get them that way, might the massacre have been averted or made more difficult to prepare? We’ll never know. But it’s fair to make that comment.

      On the other hand commenting that the gunman was raised by two lefties so it’s the fault of the ‘left’ that this happened, that’s a bit out of line yes?

      Check Bolt’s blog. It’s unbelievable.

    • Hamish says:

      10:27am | 28/07/11

      Spot on Ryan. Pretty much every media outlet in the world (and pretty much every person) assumed this was Muslim terrorists. I imagine Joe did too, but he probably wouldn’t admit it. Everyone thought this because most of these kinds of atrocities are of course committed by Muslim terrorists. Not Christian terrorists as Joe seems to imply above. However, Joe only mentions Bolt. Maybe he has a crush on him?

      It took about 30 seconds after they found out he wasn’t Islamic for the pro-censorship leftist commentariat to start suggesting that people like Bolt, Jones, Blair, Albrechtson, etc, basically pulled the trigger. But hey, attacking free speech isn’t nearly as bad as mistakenly thinking (along with everyone else) that it was Muslims.

    • RyaN says:

      10:30am | 28/07/11

      @TChong: “Almost every media outlet was wrong. Shows just how much outright bigottry exists.” Whilst you can call it bigotry or whatever, jumping to conclusions is what the media does best and far from defending them, by the laws of averages and recent events the likelihood was good.
      While I agree there shouldn’t have been assumptions made and straight up reporting should have endured, to accuse Al Jazeera of being bigoted toward Islamic people is laughable!

    • RyaN says:

      10:36am | 28/07/11

      @Swinging Voter: Do you think if it had been difficult to find guns that he would have just given up on his massacre plans?

      While the argument on gun control may or may not be valid, this point is moot in comparison to the disgusting and low point scoring that Bob Brown jumped to before the bodies were even cold. This is one disgusting, sick individual scoring these sorts of political points at such a time.

      My personal view is that making any assumptions on this case would be out of line right now since we know little about the gunman and even less as to how he ticks. The closed door trial proceedings bothers me since it appears the government is trying to hide some truth from us all.

    • Hamish says:

      10:45am | 28/07/11

      Sorry Geoff not Joe. Must be a muscle memory thing or something.

    • Michael says:

      11:12am | 28/07/11

      Most intelligent thing i ever saw you post TChong, well done man.

    • Chris L says:

      11:23am | 28/07/11

      I’m trying to remember how long after the Port Arthur massacre Howard waited before talking about gun control.

    • Bill Door says:

      09:44am | 28/07/11

      Andrew Bolt is using every argument in the book to justify this guys actions that he has always condemned when used be the Left. His broken home and social conditions of this guy youth are now valid points and are used to justifying his actions.

    • Dan says:

      09:44am | 28/07/11

      Thanks Geoff - someone needed to say it, and you did a damn fine job.

    • P. Darvio says:

      09:45am | 28/07/11

      Bolt doesn’t understand that the Bible is both the Old and New Testaments – or like most so-called Christians simply decides to ignore parts of the Bible because it doesn’t suit their politics, morals and ethics (or climate change beliefs..)

      “The Christian Bible consists of the Hebrew scriptures of Judaism, which are known as the Old Testament; and later writings recording the lives and teachings of Jesus and his followers, known as the New Testament.”

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible#Christian_canons

      BIBLE LAW advocates the following

      Killing of Non-Believers
      Killing of Gays
      Killing of children who misbehave
      Killing of Wizards (all Harry Potter fans – more children killing….)
      Killing of pigs (because the fictional Jesus person killed 2000 of them…so it must be OK…no wonder we have so many problems with animal cruelty)

      The BIBLE LAW KILL LIST goes on but I would be writing all day.

      Quote “Bolt went on, “the history of Islamic violence in Scandinavia suggests Muslim immigration there has been a bad deal for the locals”

      M’mmm – I think the Head of the Christian Church in Australia has a similar view about the violence in Islam (hope this bit doesn’t get edited out……)

      http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-07-26/breivik-manifesto-praises-australian-conservatives/2810730

    • ian powell says:

      11:10am | 28/07/11

      Hey P,
      I don’t mean to be rude or to deprive you of a fun way to kick Chritainity, but there is very clear set of arguments form Jesus, picked up by the aposltes Pete and Paul that shows the Laws of Moses are for the nation of Israel in the Sinai Covenant. Jesus then clearly sets up a whole new deal, with a new redemption, new mediator new covenant AND new law.
      The law of Moses (where you got all those fun killing things) is interesting but irrelevant for Christianity.
      It is exactly as relevant as the English law is to Australia now - it shows our history - to keep quoting 15th century english laws as an attack on Australia today is as honest as your line against Christianity.
      It will be hard to be honest and dump the argument since messiahs like Dawkins use it and it is a good debating weapon - its just wrong and displays either deliberat or accidental ignorance of some pretty obvious aguments of the Jesus and his mates

    • ACS says:

      01:12pm | 28/07/11

      “BIBLE LAW advocates the following…”

      How many Christians in Australia follow those laws?

      Any?

      No.

      Your bigotry is based on abject ignorance.

    • Timmy says:

      09:48am | 28/07/11

      It is good to remember is that is very easy to misrepresent Christianity. This applies equality to Christians as it does to those who seek to attack it.

    • Reggie the Monster. says:

      11:50am | 28/07/11

      Yeah they’ve got all the exits covered.

    • Ian Powell says:

      09:48am | 28/07/11

      Hi Geoff,
      I doubt that most of us allow the facts of recent history (incl the horrors of Norway) to actually challenge our prior world views. We focus on some and ignore other facts to sustain our positions. Many of us believe the dominant message amongst the educated and wise of the “west”  which is that all religions are the same, and the great danger is fundamentalists - they will kill you or others.
      I think its fair to say that my friends and my favourite media outlet were pleased to see the murderer has some link with Christianity -  for there is a sad dearth of genuine “i am really serious about Christ as recorded in scriptures” and violence. So any is welcome - even pretending Timothy McVeigh is a Christian when on the day of his execution for his killings he had published a letter in which he clearly claims to be an agnostic - but hey facts are overrated.
      Geoff, Westboro - really? COuld you be more predictable?  For a group of 4 families, disowned repeatedly by the Baptists in the US the Westboro bunch get regular publicity here in Australia - so many have heard of it and few have heard of the extraordinary churches that do massive good work. Media give publicity to these hateful people because it reassures us that that is what religious people are like - haters.
      I have and continue to read the Quran and the earliest"life of Muhammad” and discuss with different strands of Islam and it is counter-factual to pretend that the life of M and Quran are in any way parallel to the life of the Jew from NAzareth and the NT.
      Orthodax classical Islam has been unashamed and even gloried in Muhammad prowess as soldier and warrior and so devout Quran etc based Muslims have very good model to motivate their violence. Any fair reading of Jesus etc gives no justification for furthering His cause etc by violence isa pain in the butt for “chiistians” planning violence. I have little doubt that the words of Jesus would have not bothered the murderer from Norway. It seems his is a nationaist agenda wrapping itself in the flag of religion. A simple reading of Jesus sermon on the Mount (Matthew 7) and then a reading of Surah (chapter) 9 of the Quran will give us a feel for the differences. Huge topic, better shut up

    • NOH8 says:

      09:52am | 28/07/11

      If it were *Christians* committing disproportionate numbers of crimes against women and gays, you Lefties would be up in arms.

      But it’s Muslims, so you go quiet.  And find a way to blame Christians anyway.

      As a gay agnostic I count myself an “Islamophobe”, because it’s not unreasonable to fear those whose religion and culture tells them their job is to fricken KILL you.

      I am so pissed off at you lot who are now conflating anyone who has *legitimate concerns* about things like this, with an evil mass-murderer.

      25% of anti-gay hate-crimes in London are committed by a demographic which makes up under 5% of the population.  And it’s *not* Christians.

      That I mention this to my MP and ask them to think twice about replicating the same situation in Sydney *does not* make me a mass-murderer just waiting to be set off.

      I am so over you people.  In the past I have voted both Greens and Labor, but in 2010 when I saw how determined you were to put the “rights” of those who want me dead above the rights of my partner and myself, I held my nose and voted Liberal.  At least they listen to my concerns instead of calling me a racist and telling me to just STFU.

    • fml says:

      10:42am | 28/07/11

      25% of anti-gay hate-crimes in London are committed by a demographic which makes up under 5% of the population.  And it’s *not* Christians.

      So youre saying that 75% of the hate crimes in london are committed by 95%, which are christian?

    • Bev says:

      12:26pm | 28/07/11

      @fml
      then again you could say:

      Each 1% of the non christian demographic commits 5% of hate crime.

      While for all others each 1% commits .8% of hate crime.

      The non christian demographic is responsible for hate crimes at 6.3 times the rate of the rest of the population.

      There yah go!

    • Anna C says:

      12:38pm | 28/07/11

      Fml, the fact that 5% of the population who happen to be Muslim are committing 25% of gay hate crimes is London is statistically significant and should not just be palmed off by the left as being nothing of importance. There has been a noticable increase in gay hate crimes all over Europe and it should not be tolerated.   
      I am digusted that the left is willing to tolerate violence towards gays and women (as discussed in my previous comment). As a woman I feel let down by the left and want to know why they are so shrill about protecting the rights of Muslims (mainly misogynistic Muslim men) at the expense of women?

      The sight of Lee Rhiannon with Sheike al Hillal a while back arm in arm at some protest almost made me vomit. How could she stand next to a man who advocates the raping of women who don’t wear a burqa because they are ‘‘uncovered meat”?

      The left needs to take a hard look at themselves or risk alienating more women (like me) and gays (like NOH8) who were historically their supporters.

    • fml says:

      01:26pm | 28/07/11

      i like 73% of people make up 93.2% of statistics on the spot.

    • Bev says:

      01:43pm | 28/07/11

      @Anna C The left (feminists) have never supported women. Well only those in the inner circle.  Other women are just cannon fodder for their agenda.  They only support any group of women if it can further their their aims.  Once that aim is achieved that group is abandoned and the cry is taken up for another group of women “victims” ad finitum. Supporting muslim women does not help their agenda in western countries hence no support.

    • Bev says:

      04:54pm | 28/07/11

      fml says:01:26pm | 28/07/11

      i like 73% of people make up 93.2% of statistics on the spot.

      You really should not try to type while wiping egg off your face.

    • confused by stereotypes says:

      05:35pm | 28/07/11

      I just love how people like to bring up the ‘uncovered meat’ comment to deride the Sheik/muslims but then accept the exact same denigration of women from footballers etc
      Note they hold the same value that allows them to treat women as objects.  And a lot of women enable them while attacking their own.

    • Outraged says:

      10:17pm | 28/07/11

      Amen NOH8!

      I am also a gay male who is legitimately scared of Islam.

      Christians are all bark and no bite…they just rattle off a few “Your going to Hell’s” which I can deal with…but Muslims actually stone gays to death! At least there are “Gay Chuches” popping up around Sydney…I have never heard of a “Gay Mosque” anywhere in the world!

      I have lost count of the number of times I have been physically intimidated and called “Fagg0t” on Oxford Street by some aggro Muslim guys…

    • oddie says:

      09:56am | 28/07/11

      you bring up Bush, but not the Obama administration, which is now engaged in military action in six muslim countries, some started under clinton, others under bush - somalia, yemen, afghanistan, pakistan, iraq and now libya.  the americans have revised the date for iraq to request the US military stay, private armies are still in the mix,  Gitmo stays open, torture still happens at Bagram, etc.  still haven’t seen the left MSM cover the millions of pro-Gaddafi demonstrators in Libya who, for some strange reason, don’t like being bombed by NATO.

      where is the ANTIWAR left? just wondering.  didn’t see anything but praise for Tony Blair by the left MSM this week.  not even a mention of Blair’s many financial interests in the manmade global warming (oops i mean clean energy future) scam.  funny thing this left/right nonsense.

    • ibast says:

      09:56am | 28/07/11

      Bolt’s article was an attempt to outline some rule of engagement.  Everybody knows this Norwegian guy was a nutter.  He felt justified in his actions because of the right media in northern Europe.  But Bolt wants to click is tongue at those that wish to point out there are dangers to extreme deviations from the centre in opinion.  Seems like Bolt feels a little guilty to me.

    • P. Darvio says:

      10:03am | 28/07/11

      Quote: “And while the New Testament indeed forbids violence….”

      This is rubbish

      The Fictional Jesus Person (FJP) specifically endorsed Old Testament BIBLE LAW (The Christian equivalent to Sharia Law) and told parents to kill their children if they misbehaved, and FJP slaughtered 2000 pigs, depriving a poor farmer of a living. Did FJP or the Christian Community compensate the pig farmer for FJP’s incomprehensible slaughter of 2000 pigs? – NO they did not – no ethics, no morals……

      With FJP in the New Testament endorsing BIBLE LAW he (and the New Testament) also endorsed the following

      Killing of Non-Believers

      Killing of Gays

      Killing of children who misbehave

      Killing of Wizards (all Harry Potter fans – more child killing….)

      Killing of Unborn Babies - Abortion – YES the Bible approves the killing of unborn children through some bizarre ritual in Christian Churches, using “dirty water” to abort a women’s unborn baby, and this act is performed by a Christian Priest. This makes all Christian Churches Abortion Clinics and Christian Priests Abortionists.

      I could go on but here’s further reading on the violence of the New Testament.

      http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/nt.html

      I wonder if FJP had a pet dinosaur left over from Noah’s Flood…??

    • Timmy says:

      10:39am | 28/07/11

      Quoting idiosyncrasies of Old Testament Law and somehow equating this as some form of indictment of the “Evils” of Christianity is a misrepresentation of the Christian understanding of:

      1.  The role of the Law in God’s plan.
      2.  Jesus Christ as the fulfilment of the Law.
      3.  The emphasis the Jesus put love and grace over legalistic religion.
      4.  That any rules or rite that we do attempt to follow are done out of love for Jesus Christ and not in order to win favour with God.

    • Ian Powell says:

      11:32am | 28/07/11

      You are a hoot. Fictional Jesus? Real pro ancient historians have abs no doubt about Jesus reality. So the world respected Prof Graeme Clarke of ANU wrote“frankly I know of no ancient or biblical historian who would have a twinge of doubt about the existence of a Jesus Christ – the documentary evidence is simply overwhelming”
      Silly old dawkins et al pretend their is some doubt and the only guy they quote is a Prof, impressive - Prof of…wait for it ... German Grammar. But if it helps you sleep and mock on - you can ignore evidence.
      The Jewish scientist Einstein said in the sat Evening Post“No man can deny that Jesus existed”
      If you keep using silly stuff, people might wonder if you just hate the idea of a God who not only loves you but owns rather than having genuine intellecual problems.

    • Swinging Voter says:

      11:50am | 28/07/11

      However characterising this guy as a christian at all I believe is a misunderstanding. I’ve made a post below (if it goes up). Please feel free to comment.

    • Debra says:

      12:22pm | 28/07/11

      To spend precious time understanding the rubbish the 3 of you have written is wasting my time and energy. Then again it is people like the 3 of you that should be under surveillance.

    • DT says:

      10:08am | 28/07/11

      Andrew Bolt is one of the funniest comedians in Australia.  The fact that so many people actually believe he is serious is testament to his genius.  Borat would be proud.

    • the ghost of christmas past says:

      10:08am | 28/07/11

      Whoever brought Monckton to oz could have saved themselves a few quid by doing a quick reprogram of Bolt.  For you right wingers, I hope you read the extract of Menzies views on the Liberal party leaders in letters to his daughter, very enlightening.

    • josh says:

      01:55pm | 28/07/11

      Pig Iron bob was no friend of the right. Australia is ripe for something similar to what happened to Norway, and not unlike Norway - the lefties won’t be spared

    • Tchom says:

      10:10am | 28/07/11

      Conservative politics would be a lot more appealing without people like Bolt spruiking it. I thought the bit about him being a Christian was a bit of a stretch. I don’t think he committed these acts because he was a christian, its just a wrapper he used to justify it. But I agree with the crux of this article. Using the suffering of others to for your own irrelevant agenda is low

    • Ryder says:

      10:12am | 28/07/11

      Muslim terror organisations actually rang in and claimed responsibility for the attacks right after they had occurred.
      In fact they had been threatening to carry out attacks in Norway for the past 10 days over Norway’s statement that they were going to ratify Palestinian statehood.

      Not really a big reach to assume a large terror cell in Norway were behind the attacks particularly the bombing in Oslo.

      We are also looking at Norway from the perspective of our own democracy and our own level of political activism. I think what has occurred to those young people is very wrong but what are the politicians thinking by running such camps. They are actually indoctrination camps and although we here In Australia find that hard to believe they are actually considered as such by the wider community in Oslo. It is an honour to be selected to go as you will meet many influential people including the incumbent prime minister and often stars and other celebrities attend as well.

      Some kids actually decline their invitations as they do not wish to work and study over the holidays but would rather go to actual summer camps where they do normal kids stuff like play soccer and badminton etc rather than attend daily meetings and seminars.

      Political summer camps at which participants undertake courses and activities with only an extreme left bias strikes me as being very much like the old USSR.. Taking young kids and putting them in a hot house political environment where Israelis are painted as international criminals, showing them images of dead Palestinian children, coaching them in the best way to run a rally and then having them demonstrate those skills while the prime minister and other leading politicians visit, as occurred 2 days before this horrifying event; all of these sort of activities will find a ready home in a young impressionable mind and is utterly wrong.

      Let children form their own political views from information and material from both sides of politics and do not subject them to such intense propaganda from such a young age.

      The following image for example is from Rød Ungdom which is the red youth party in Norway.

      http://www.israelwhat.com/2011/03/26/red-youth-supports-palestinian-resistance-on-their-own-terms/

      There is more going in Norway than all of us living here in peaceful Australia realise. Young Marxist aligned extremely politicised youth all of whom who have been taught that people who think differently are either stupid or criminal. Not a healthy democracy at all in the opinion of many people including many in Norway.

    • Gavin says:

      10:44am | 28/07/11

      “In fact they had been threatening to carry out attacks in Norway for the past 10 days over Norway’s statement that they were going to ratify Palestinian statehood”

      ryder, that doesn’t make sense, why would they threaten to bomb Norway because Norway is recognising the Palestinians right to have a state?

    • Ryder says:

      11:14am | 28/07/11

      Ayman al-Zawahri, the Al Qaeda leader had stated time and time again that Al Qaeda will retaliate against Norway for deploying troops to Afghanistan and for its membership of NATO. The whole Palestinian statehood threat being nothing but a smokescreen for this terror organisation to scare people.

      Some academics have also said that any step towards a peaceful end to trouble in Gaza for example would not be helpful to Al Qaeda at all.

      At the end of the day you have as much idea of the possible link as I do Gavin. I was only repeating what was initially reported in the media.

    • ben says:

      10:13am | 28/07/11

      +1 for this article. Best of luck with the trolls.

    • Dr Jack says:

      10:15am | 28/07/11

      You are just so PC, Mr. Lemmon. Go live there and die a bit more every day from what Bolt’s real message is.

    • Craig Mc says:

      10:17am | 28/07/11

      Lemon might have a point if an islamic group hadn’t taken credit for the bombing just after it happened.

    • Tedd says:

      10:44am | 28/07/11

      Nah, that was and is a red herring tangent.

    • Gavin says:

      10:19am | 28/07/11

      yeah, i noticed that about andrew bolt to…. the article on his blog yesterday was criticising the left-wing for taking advantage of this Norwegian massacre, which is funny given that he did the exact same thing on saturday morning…......he assumped the attack was done by muslims, so he took it as an opportunity to attacks muslim immigration.

      and on the point of taking advantage of the massacre, right-wing parties are doing it to….the australian yesterday had an article about how right-wing parties condemn the violence, but agree with the terrorists views on muslim immigration and how we need to listen to such voices to prevent any attacks like this happening in the future.

      the other thing i didn’t like was blogs such as andrew bolt refusing to call this guy a terrorist…....i mean, andrew bolt changed his headline from terrorist, to “single mad man”. it makes me wonder if such bloggers only reserve the word “terrorist” for muslims and if so, they are very bigoted. if blowing up a government building and shooting 70+ people at a political youth camp isn’t terrorism, then i don’t know what is.

    • Zeta says:

      10:23am | 28/07/11

      Bro, I don’t know where to start. And you’re only getting the honorific Bro because of that moustache.

      Writing 1700 words about things Andrew Bolt said is kind of like writing 1700 words about a really nasty shit you did. Actually no, it’s more like writing 1700 words about a really disgusting bout of diareha someone else had. Then you walked into the bathroom, saw it, and were like ‘ah oh gross dude, I’m going to go blog about that’.

      For starters, your 1700 words isn’t going to diminish the foulness of that turd. It’s just going to spread it around. And the turd isn’t even going to care. No one likes turds. You’re not convincing anyone else that the turd was more wrong than we already thought it was.

      But there is a tiny percentage of people who really, really like shit. They have a fetish for that kind of thing and make sand castles out of it in their latex covered living rooms. Your 1700 words is just going to get those people off, the very people that you’re also disgusted by.

      So I guess what I’m trying to say is, congratulations, you just made yourself a pornographer for people who like Andrew Bolt. I’m sure you sat down to write this with the best of intentions, you, like every other supposed satirist blogger or whatever sits down and tries to write about Norway like you’re Jon Stewart. You’re not. You’re just feeding the rage powered introspection machine that chews up angry left wingers and spits out more material for the angry bolt tards to use on their blogs.

      You must be like the fifth left wing columnist I’ve seen pick Bolt’s comments apart this week. You realise, that Bolt has no ‘burden of truth’. He’s not a journalist. He’s a columnist. He weaves a right wing narrative for people who want one. Saying that he’s being dishonest is just stupid.

      ‘NEWS FLASH: RIGHT WING COLUMNIST SAYS RIGHT WING THINGS TO RIGHT WING PEOPLE.’

      You could have shaved the rant down to an even 1000 words by omiting the meta-ethical spray at the Old Testament’s gratuitous violence. That dead horse has been flogged past the finish line by better comics than you.

      And the Ku Klux Klan as the grandfather’s of modern terrorism? It’s a cop out. That’s as dishonest as something Bolt would say. Technically the first terrorists were actually Muslim. Hasan-i Sabbah and his ?ashsh?sh?n were strictly speaking the earliest terrorists by the definition we know them today. They also practiced a mystic, almost gnostic form of Islam distant from the one practiced today. Bolt would use that one.

      A better point for your arguement is that by definition and action the first terrorists were Jewish. True facts. Sicarii in Judea used guerilla tactics to expel the Romans in 70 AD. Hamas pulls that one out occassionally.

      And come on - appealing for Bolt to do profiles on insignificant activists and poets? Clearly the reason you’re a blogger and not a journalist is that you have no concept of what is news worthy. Bolt gives people what they want. And you just look silly appealing for him to give people what they don’t.

      I don’t like Andrew Bolt any more than you do. But I accept in a healthy democracy, ideas must be free, and it is the popular ones, not the right ones that will thrive. That’s the price you pay for freedom of thought. Your great ideas about how the world should be, and how we should relate to one another will never matter, while popular ideas preaching hatred will catch on like virii. It’s unpleasant, but I’d rather live in a free thinking world where most people read Andrew Bolt’s blog and are free to be wrong, than a world where people are forced to be right.

    • Swinging Voter says:

      12:34pm | 28/07/11

      I’d hate to interrupt, it looks like your almost having a private moment here, but in want way does fair criticism hinder freedom of speech? I would have thought the suggestion that Bolt is not to e criticized despite various disagreement with him is a greeter attack on free speech.

      Censorship attacks free speech. Criticism is free speech in action.

    • Tiredofthiscrap says:

      12:49pm | 28/07/11

      Zeta,

      Well said (last paragraph)- politics has never been about right or wrong policies - good or bad - it’s all about popularity. There’s the rub - you cannot make someone like the libs more than the ALP or vice versa but forcing people to like a party is not democracy.

      I think a lot of want Bolt writes is sensationalist but sometimes he hits the nail on the head. It will be a sad day when my freedom of speech and choice are compromised.

    • Economist says:

      01:02pm | 28/07/11

      Well said, but the problem is the lack of corrections that Bolt,  and most of the media don’t do. How hard is it to apologise when your wrong or correct your previous statement based on new information?  It should be mandatory for a paper to put on page 2 a list of corrections from the previous days/weeks papers. I’d certainly respect Bolt for it more, but instead he obfuscates and changes the focus but keeps the same ascertain.

      Dare I mention that at least Crikey.com has a corrections, comments and cockups section?

    • Reggie says:

      03:01pm | 28/07/11

      Econ. “How hard is it to apologise when you’re wrong or correct your previous statement based on new information?”

      It’s too late after the event, their error has spread and its effect is immediate. Calumny is the old-fashioned term. Deliberately making a misstatement for effect. In this case the importance of being first even if it IS wrong.

      Econ. “It should be mandatory for a paper to put on page 2 a list of corrections from the previous days/weeks papers.”

      It is for this very reason that someone in the past INSISTED that the withdrawal be in the same giant type as the original calumny and on the FRONT page of the paper.  Page 2?  Really!  Nahhhh

      TOTS, if you drive in enough nails you’re bound to strike home every so often without even trying.

    • Reggie says:

      03:02pm | 28/07/11

      Econ. “How hard is it to apologise when you’re wrong or correct your previous statement based on new information?”

      It’s too late after the event, their error has spread and its effect is immediate. Calumny is the old-fashioned term. Deliberately making a misstatement for effect. In this case the importance of being first even if it IS wrong.

      Econ. “It should be mandatory for a paper to put on page 2 a list of corrections from the previous days/weeks papers.”

      It is for this very reason that someone in the past INSISTED that the withdrawal be in the same giant type as the original calumny and on the FRONT page of the paper.  Page 2?  Really!  Nahhhh

      TOTS, if you drive in enough nails you’re bound to strike home every so often without even trying.

    • Robert S McCormick says:

      10:29am | 28/07/11

      Typical Andrew Bolt! His endless rants against Muslims - indeed anyone - who doesn’t fit in with his ultra-right, WASC (C= christian) views is either a terrorist already or on the way to becoming one.
      Though this confessed murderer now denies it, he did originally claim to be a memeber of a an Ultra-Right wing Fundmentalist Christian Group. Probably thinking this was a bridge too far for decent people to accept he changed his mind. Like it or not many of our own anti-everyone brigade - in particular Muslims & other religions - in their letters to the media make thinly veiled claims to being “Good, Church-going Christians”
      The old adage “Money is the root of all evil"is, of course totally wrong.
      Religion is the root of all evil.
      There has never been a war, revolution, terrorist attack in “The West” which has not been based in religion - it matters not which religion be it Christianity, Islam or Judaism. The root of all those wars is religion.

    • Kassandra says:

      04:21pm | 28/07/11

      umm.. “There has never been a war, revolution, terrorist attack in ‘The West’ which has not been based in religion”.. Really?

      Kindly enlighten me as to which religion(s) was/were the basis of WW I, WW II, the Russian, French and American revolutions, the Korean War, the Vietnam War, just for starters? I think the Bhudda had a better grasp of the principal cause of human suffering and it’s neither money nor religion.

    • Religiously Atheist says:

      10:31am | 28/07/11

      Oh dear - Andrew has bolted again before checking his facts, like lots of journalists.  But it is true that all Holey Books like a bit of killing - read them and be nauseated - if you like that sort of thing, I’d suggest reading the Quran from back to front - it is top billing for killing infidels.  The only solutions is give those with the god gene and injection of critical thinking and realism.

    • Timmy says:

      12:41pm | 28/07/11

      That critical thinking is only the domain of the atheist is a baseless lie blindly restated by the unthinking minions of sound byte atheists like Dawkins.

    • Reggie says:

      07:37pm | 28/07/11

      Timmy. “That critical thinking is only the domain of the atheist is a baseless lie ....”

      For something to be a baseless lie it is necessary for someone to prove it and as religion puts its faith in the unprovable, the “atheists” begin with an advantage.  Did you miss that critical point Timmy?

    • Timmy says:

      09:35pm | 28/07/11

      Critical thinking is that mode of thinking — about any subject, content,or problem — in which the thinker improves the quality of his or her thinking by skilfully analysing, assessing, and reconstructing it. - From criticalthinking.org

      Critical Thinking has nought to do with faith or assumptions that people make. Critical thinking does not require the subject of the thinking to be provable. One can spend a lot of time thinking critically about hypothetical situations that will never happen. I seem to recall thinking very deeply about throwing tenis balls on a train carriage travelling at the speed of light when I did physics at uni.

      Critical thinking has everything to do with deep thinking on a subject.

      A significant number of individuals claiming to be critical thinking people readily simple atheistic sound bites (like equating belief in an established religion and belief in some random monster that they made up on the spot) without understanding that there exist sound responses. The reason that these responses don’t get traction in the media or the blogosphere is that they actually do require critical thinking to digest.

      Here is some homework to think critically about:

      Prove the following: “For a concept to be considered rational, the concept must also be provable”

    • Reggie says:

      11:00pm | 28/07/11

      Timmy. ” Prove the following: “For a concept to be considered rational, the concept must also be provable”

      It’s your contention, you prove it. Your presumption is that a concept or hypothesis is rational until proven wrong, then it becomes irrational. The mere fact that I supplied a proof (any proof) that it is wrong, is sufficient for you to be assured it is right. Now I see how Christians tie themselves in knots.


      There is no reason at all for your original hypothesis to be regarded as rational. It is equally valid to presume that your concept is wrong to begin with and in order to validate it you must prove it NOT wrong.

      Oh you mean that it must be proven correct?  Trust me to see that negative and positive proof are both proof of opposite dispositions.

    • Bolt Cutter says:

      10:35am | 28/07/11

      Ryder is right - a Muslim group did say they were the perpetrators of this horrendous crime - they just have to take the blame for killing which they so enjoy - it’s in their belief system.  But next time, Bolt, hold your horses before bolting off too early - a scoop can sometimes mean manure on your face.

    • Stv027 says:

      10:36am | 28/07/11

      Always nice to see the great Doug Stanhope quoted!!!

    • TerraMatt says:

      10:37am | 28/07/11

      In the current climate it’s not at all surprising that large slabs of the world initially assumed the attacks were orchestrated by adherants to extreme aspects of Islam. Even as the hours went by, it still seemed possible that the blonde haired, white chap with a little bit of chin-fluff could (firstly) be a Muslim and therefore (secondly) have carried out these attrocities. It’s a modern world - not every Muslim looks like Yasser Arafat and not every Christian looks like Jo Ratzinger. But as the hours turned into days, not all folk were interested in considering the growing weight of knowledge about these attacks. Nor were they fulsomely willing to reconsider their position. This’d be Geoff’s point.

    • Nerida Jane says:

      10:47am | 28/07/11

      What saddens and horrifies me is that few people commenting here are learning anything from Norway’s tragedy.  That evil man did not develop in a vacuum as his version of Mein Kampf proves.  He sucked up divisive bile and hate then took the next step.  We should all stop and think about what we say, do and write in that light.  Please, people - just stop it!

    • Ryder says:

      11:29am | 28/07/11

      Nerida, what you label bile and hate could be another persons truth.

      What horrifies me Nerida is that you are right, we are not learning anything from this tragedy.

      We need a vigorous debate that is not controlled by any one faction or interest group over whether we want multiculturalism or whether we may prefer a more integrated society. We are not educated enough or intelligent enough to have such a debate without it turning into an unproductive argument though.

      Read the following Nerida and integrate the ideas contained into your world view of what is currently occurring within the western world.

      “Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them…

      We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant. We should claim that any movement preaching intolerance places itself outside the law, and we should consider incitement to intolerance and persecution as criminal, in the same way as we should consider incitement to murder, or to kidnapping, or to the revival of the slave trade, as criminal.”

      Yes, it could lead to egregious abuses in the wrong hands but by importing the holders of intolerant views to our democratic countries we are saying to them their views have validity and meaning to us also.

    • Anna C says:

      02:11pm | 28/07/11

      Spot on Ryder.  Philiospher Karl Popper’s famous quote perfectly articulates what many of us feel. Modern Islam does not have a good track record when it comes to tolerating others. Why should Western democracies like us be expected to tolerate intolerant Muslims if it means destroying the things that make us great such as: freedom of speech: modernity: separation between church and state; womens’ rights; gay rights etc?

    • James1 says:

      10:48am | 28/07/11

      “The Klan are also an overtly Christian organisation, at least in their own estimation.”

      Correction.  They are an overtly Protestant organisation.  They hate Catholics just as much as they hate Jews and blacks.

    • Reggie says:

      11:12am | 29/07/11

      Neat point James1, Protestants don’t regard Catholics as Christians, it’s one of those fumbling ploys like sidelining the word gay. smile

    • James1 says:

      10:50am | 28/07/11

      “He doesn’t like to mention the strengths that migrants bring to our country, or how crucial they’ve been to our development.”

      You clearly don’t read all of his blogs and articles then.  I have read several where he does, including one in which he specifically praises Australian Muslims.

    • Swinging Voter says:

      11:19am | 28/07/11

      ...Are you insane?

      I’ve been following his blog for the better part of a year and I have seen not one single comment from him (he does about 6 posts a day) that has even HINTERD positively towards muslims. Not even hinted. Even compliments are backhanded.

      The problem is the readership he has garnered are generally elderly, conservative, christian and VERY anti-muslim. Now that he’s garnered such support from them to allow him his own TV show, he doesn’t want to lose them by saying something they don’t want to hear does he?

      He is pro gay, pro Israel, Pro christain, pro conservative, pro white, anti muslim, anti aboriginal, anti labor and anti greens. Every single opinion I have ever seen him do is reverse engineered to support the special interest groups he supports and detract from the ones he hates. Almost without exception.

      Where are these articles you talk of and when were they written?

    • Dazeddazza says:

      11:45am | 28/07/11

      Call for a debate, Bolt v Lemon.  IMO, no contest!!!  Bolt by a mile.

    • Swinging Voter says:

      01:05pm | 28/07/11

      Well I’ll be darned, you are correct.

      However, check out the comments. This is my fave:

      “When they stop pushing for Australians to conform to “their “ way of life ,,,,, I’ll start believing them ...... maybe…”

      I’d stand by my suggestion that he supports his special interest groups almost completely one sidedly, but maybe there’s some hope for him yet :p

      ( I won’t bother posting the ones that go the other way, we know how numerous those are)

    • ACS says:

      01:28pm | 28/07/11

      “the readership he has garnered are generally elderly, conservative, christian and VERY anti-muslim.”

      That is simply your own bigotry and hatred speaking.  You know none of what you have claimed for a fact, yet you think that if you repeat it people will believe you.

      As for your “elder-rage”, go have a go at GetUp… the average age of /their/ members is 55.

      Give it a break, Jezza.

    • James1 says:

      11:11am | 28/07/11

      Yeats put it best.

      Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
      Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
      The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
      The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
      The best lack all conviction, while the worst
      Are full of passionate intensity.

    • ibast says:

      01:10pm | 28/07/11

      I must have missed his post

    • James1 says:

      04:46pm | 28/07/11

      Its a pretty old one…

    • sylvie says:

      06:34pm | 28/07/11

      @James1,  Pleased to see it up here

    • Warwick says:

      11:21am | 28/07/11

      What a poorly written and badly thought-out piece. It is not just the case that the overwhelming majority of terrorist murders that happen these days are carried out by Muslims; it is also the case that we constantly hear about fire breathing Imams who preach murder from the Mosques. We do not hear about Christian preachers advocating this sort of thing from their pulpits.

      Furthermore, when killer Muslims commit an atrocity Muslims all around the world celebrate, dance in the streets and hand out sweets. And Muslim preachers praise the murder in their Mosques. Not all Muslims advocate murder but most murder of this sort is inspired by Muslim preachers, people like Abu Bakaar Bashir, the head of Jemaah Islamiah in Indonesia.

    • Dan says:

      12:52pm | 28/07/11

      I take it you haven’t visited the US recently then Warwick?

      Talkback radio over there is filled with those calling themselves ‘Christians’ advocating a ‘people’s revolt’. It may not be as explicit as many Imams, but the undertones are certainly there. Have a look at what was said/written around the time of Obama’s election.

      It’s not the mainstream in the US, by any measure. I’m talking the very radical right-wing. And it’s much the same in Islam - there are those that advocate violence, but they’re on the fringes.

      And “Muslims all around the world” celebrate acts of terrorism? I think it’s time to take off the tin-foil hat and explore the world a little, that’s just not the case at all.

    • James1 says:

      01:53pm | 28/07/11

      “Furthermore, when killer Muslims commit an atrocity Muslims all around the world celebrate, dance in the streets and hand out sweets.”

      You left out the fact that the largest protest against the 9/11 attacks outside the US itself took place in Tehran.

      “We do not hear about Christian preachers advocating this sort of thing from their pulpits.”

      Have a listen to Fred Phelps some time…

    • Glen says:

      11:25am | 28/07/11

      Wow what a pointless article. You just played right into Bolt’s hands.

    • eda says:

      11:26am | 28/07/11

      Oh goody, a Bolt bashing exercise, was not going to join in, but have changed my mind.

      As I, used to go to the Bolt blog, ocassionally, to see who Bolt and some of the bloggers were bashing for that day.

      Way I see it, if your going to fling mud, you gotta expect mud to be flung back.

      Have not been for ages, but nothing changed, I see/read.

      Anyhow, Bolt seems to me, humilated, (things not going according to Bolt’s World, going by the tone of Herald Sun article last week) by the News Corp scandal and now this tradegy in Norway.

      Things always come in 3’s, so one more to go (without bloodshed, I hope, truly hope) then Bolt can go back to his usual, same shite, different bucket, type of articles. 

      My 2cents worth, thanks, The Punch.

    • Swinging Voter says:

      11:28am | 28/07/11

      I have to comment about part of this article which I very mcuh disagree with, namely the manner in which it goes after christianity. I’m not a christian myself and I’m sure all the verses quoted etc are valid and all that, but one is left with the impression that christianity actually formed part of this mans motives for this atrocity.

      I’ve been reading his manifesto, the video attached tho the manifesto and the blog of his preparation and I believe this is not the case. It’s not even the case that he was under the impression he was christian. Allow me to explain:

      He believed that europe was being invaded by muslims, which amounts to “demographic jihad” by gradually swallowing up their land until they were outnumbered. He believed that this amounted to genocide as it would spell the end of european culture and as a proud european national he had to fight against this.

      He belived politics had failed through PC political correctness and censorship to address these issues and theat the world was controlled by communist marxists who were being duped by the muslims. He reasoned that the communist marxists must be killed so that multiculturalism would die with them and the muslims could be thrown out.

      All without one bible verse being cited. All right wing (and pretty standard right wing) thoughts.

      Then came time to action that plan, he said hope lay in using the imagery and history of the crusaders to convince people that martyrdome courage and sacrafice were the only way the war could be won. He spoke regularly of hi “martyrdom” operation and about his being a knight templar.

      But he was NOT motivated by religion. He actually explicitly said that he was not religious. It was just the banner he wanted to use to rally people to his right wing cause.

      This man was a political nut, not a religious one. A right wing terrorist, not a christian terrorist.

      And it is from the right wing of politics that any of his followers will spring, not from christian churches.

    • Reggie says:

      12:15pm | 28/07/11

      Thanks SV, a highly valued and well considered contribution.

    • Angus says:

      11:39am | 28/07/11

      Bolt identified the usual suspects - muslims as did every other news outlet around the world. Why wouldn’t he considering an islamic group came forward and claimed responsibility immediately after the event.

      The mainstream media have I think always treated islamic violence with kid gloves, “let’s not jump to conclusions or speculate on a motive or until more is known”. etc. etc. but were quick to label the shooter as a right wing fundamentalist christian. Of course Breivik is nothing of the sort and mentions at several points in his manifesto that he does not hold christian religious beliefs and explicity disavows christian fundamentalism in favour of the secular state.

      “and while the New Testament indeed forbids violence, it is the far less relevant half of the Bible in Christian politics”. huh? Sure all Christian’s would ignore Christ’s teachings and focus on the old testament….Those who did that would not be Christians at all. You may be closer to being a jew but you would most definiately not be a Christian. Nice try.

      You highlighting what you call, “Christian Violence” and wanting to tar Christians with Breivik’s murderous brush is tit-for-tat. Falsely claiming some warped moral relativity by implying they are as bad as the other.
      Bolt, whatever his faults seems to be able to connect the dots. Open up that nicely translated copy of the koran you threaten Bolt’s ignorance with and read some of the things that muslims hold as the literal god’s truth, as well as the hadith and see who is making it about us and them.

    • Zaf says:

      12:01pm | 28/07/11

      Angus, without getting into a theological discussion, it’s worth pointing out that there have been wars and invasions and violence ‘in the name of Christianity’ - from the sectarian conflicts of Byzantine times to the Crusades to justifications for colonising Africa to the Srebrenica massacre in Bosnia to the bombing of abortion clinics in the US.

      Of course most Christians would say that these actions were not reflective of True Christianity, but most Muslims would probably say that flying planes into buildings to kill people isn’t reflective of true Islam either. 

      The point with Bolt is that he sees how unreasonable it is to try and make this kind of broad generalisation about Christians, but then turns around and consistently makes precisely these kind of generalisations about Muslims - with no hint of self awareness or irony.  Hence, imho, the article.

      It isnt’ that all Fundamentalist Christians are terrorists, it’s that Bolt is an inconsistent hypocrite.

    • AdamC says:

      11:45am | 28/07/11

      At least this inane drivel isn’t about the carbon tax ...

    • Captain Planet says:

      02:09pm | 28/07/11

      Yeah lucky it’s nothing serious like the carbon tax.

    • WB says:

      11:46am | 28/07/11

      Having read this I confidently conclude Geoff Lemon is an empty-headed knee-jerk Bolthating imbecile*.

      * this is not a death threat

    • Obese Andy says:

      10:48pm | 01/08/11

      Imbecile?, empty-headed?...HAHAHA! A truly imbecilic and empty headed comment WB. How about trying the less imbecilic approach of making a valid criticism? I am also fairly confident that Geoff loathes Bolt’s drivel, but merely pities the man himself. Extremely disingenuous for a simpleton to call Geoff empty headed, it just draws attention to own lack of intellect, mate smile

    • alan says:

      11:55am | 28/07/11

      even richard the third was right,then,but the uk opeople thought differently.
      yes richard was right,the is lslamic take over of europe is taqkeng place.no father christmaqs,s,no carola,noe flags,no christian plays at christmas.just look at it,and thats only in a few years,very very soon it will be complete.europeans have been swamped by the islamic religeon.if the europeans keep letting muslims in,they will destroy ALL whay of life in europe,if the m.ps, dont lisern now,we are doomed,to islam

    • graham says:

      06:12pm | 29/07/11

      Allan. Are you related to Andrew Bolt? Are you a white supremo?  Are you a Neo-Nazi? Are you an Afrikaaner, or a KKK member? Or are you just a follower of anyone who hates someone different to yourself. How terribly sad that you can say such awful things off your own bat. Never mind, old son, we all get tied up in misspelt condemnations. Don’t we?

    • Kipling says:

      12:00pm | 28/07/11

      Point one very clearly made and yet apparently overlooked by the erudit population of this forum, Bolt published wihtout verification and then in no way stepped back from his erroneous assumption, just shifted the focus. That is possibly one of the key points to this debate (for want of a more apt descriptor, although it hardly seems a debate). Bolt claims to be a professional journalist, and yes, he is just an opinion writer, this too may be a statment on his journalistic credentials, yet he failed epically in basic journalism 101 “confim”.
      Obviously this is not the first time this bloke has done this, or worse, left out significant facts, in his haste to serve his ideolog agenda. Make no mistake, that is what Bolt is all about, pushing his barrow regardless of little things like facts or for that matter potential fall out.
      Why is it that taking someone to task for not living up to their apparent professional and ethical benchmark is percieved (only by the Right notebaly) as an attack on free speech. Bolt bangs on about free speech when something he says is questioned (according to the simpering supportes of Boltesque types) attacked.. Yet, he clearly and demonstrably does not offer the same support to thoughtful correspondents who merely question his statements and position. Why would that be? Hypocrisy springs to mind, duplicity perhaps or simply a commtted lack of integrity in order to push a fear based right wing agenda.
      Neither wing provides real thinking people with anything worthwhile, yet, people still choose their sides and draw up their battle lines. How stupid.
      It was refreshing to see something articulate and thoughtful in response to the toxic and poisonous rantings of Bolt et al.

      That said, I would not for one minute condone Bolt or any of his Piers (yes that was intentional) being shut down out of hand. The joy of free speech is that one has a right to be offended. As such, bring on more of the “crap”, but at least, in the genuine interests of free speech, afford as much air time to the “Left” and more importantly than that, those who don’t care much for either wing but are simply more concerned for the well being of the bird in the middle that the Left and Right Wing clearly have no love for…

    • Socrates of The Hills (NSW) says:

      01:57pm | 28/07/11

      You’ve got enough airtime for the left on the ABC. We are paying for it. Go have a latte or charday was Chris Lilley calls it on his swearing programmme called .....

    • Nick42 says:

      03:41pm | 28/07/11

      Socrates you really are a right wing drone/extremist.

      Go have a look at the report commissioned by Ruddock and Howard about bias in the ABC. This report was done when Don Donaldson was in charge of the ABC, a person nominated by Howard, and along with the majority of the board, like Janet Albrechtsen, were named by Howard. If you can call any of the people I have named left wing then you confirm you are an extremist as even under these people the report found no bias.

      Also if I would stop calling yourself Socrates because if you actually go and look at what history knows about him he would certainly night be called right wing.

    • squarepusher says:

      12:07pm | 28/07/11

      Congratulations, you managed to complain and over-analyse over 1500 words about a BLOG entry.

      You do understand what the difference between a blog and a column is right?

      Andrew can write and rant whatever he likes in his blog.

    • Andrew says:

      02:42pm | 28/07/11

      Of course he can, no matter how factually incorrect it is and no matter how bigoted it is.

      What is he and his mate Alan Jones going to do when one of their followers does something in Australia. Ooops had that already, Cronulla anyone?

      They spout their hate filled bile and incite others with their bigotry. We now have the AFP investigating people for threats made to the PM. This only days after Jones called for the PM to be put in a chaff bag and dropped in the ocean. Cause and effect anyone?

    • squarepusher says:

      05:58pm | 28/07/11

      Actually ‘bigotry’ would be the Left now considering the ‘supposed faith’ of Breivik entirely relevant to commentary and discussion - when failing to mention it at all when 9/10 terrorist attacks a perpetuated by radical muslim fundamentalists.

      THAT is bigotry.

      No wonder leftist sites like The Punch and Crikey need to be independently maintained and financed, because nobody wants to buy this kind of ideological nonsense from the Age or other Fairfax publication.

    • Andrew says:

      09:08pm | 28/07/11

      squarepusher says:05:58pm | 28/07/11

      Andrew Bolt is a bigot. Left, Right , Center. Stop trying to defend him. If you believe all the crap he writes, at least have the guts to admit it.

    • squarepusher says:

      11:38pm | 28/07/11

      Whatever.

      Bolt writes what most people think.

      And yes I agree with him. smile

      From our point of view, YOU are the bigot.

    • Ryder says:

      12:13pm | 28/07/11

      Yes, but you actually took the time to read his manifesto before making this comment.

      You are correct when you say it was an atrocity carried out based on ideology and not religion. He clearly stated that there is no point attacking Muslims as they are just doing what we allow them to do and if we are stupid enough to allow unfettered immigration of people that wish to destroy us from within, over a large span of time, the blame ultimately lies with us.

      As he stated, the only way as he sees it, to stop this occurring is to force the individuals and groups whether they were politicians, journalists, political parties or hard core Marxists from promoting multiculturalism and Islamic immigration to the detriment of his own ethnic culture. He considered them traitors to his own ethnic group and stated that it is these people that must change their ideology and recant their views or face the consequence of their perceived crimes. Hence the detailed instructions pertaining to warning people of their traitorous actions and ranking their “crimes” on a scale of severity.

      He believes that he is at war over the protection of his own nations ethnic identity and that of all western democracies and that a war between nationalism and globalism is already taking place and has been taking place for many years.

      He is more an idealogical Crusader than a religious one.

    • Ryder says:

      12:32pm | 28/07/11

      The above was directed at the comment of Swinging Voter 11:28am | 28/07/11.

      It could equally be directed at any who have found the time to read the manifesto written by the alleged bomber before commenting on any of the varied aspects of this horrifying and historical incident.

    • Swinging Voter says:

      02:27pm | 28/07/11

      Ahh, I just found this comment. Thanks for the response, I concur with your analysis.

    • Socrates of The Hills (NSW) says:

      02:45pm | 28/07/11

      Why the fuck would I even bother to read any crap that he wrote ???

    • sylvie says:

      04:56pm | 28/07/11

      Agree, Socrates of the Hills.

      Who would read it

    • David V. says:

      12:23pm | 28/07/11

      What is a liberal? What is a conservative? By playing this hysterical blame-game, you’re doing exactly what Breivik, Islamists, and other loons want you to do. Show that you’re not like them, please.

    • Moby says:

      12:32pm | 28/07/11

      Funny how the double standards won’t allow the lefty narrative to rag on all of Norway who initially feared the same. I mean, they had recently busted an actual al-Qaeda cell as recent as 2010 - no, they had no reason to fear what everyone else initially feared.

    • Socrates of The Hills (NSW) says:

      02:25pm | 28/07/11

      Muslims are nice people. Take Sheikh Hilaly at Lakemba Mosque. He advocates Muslim intergration between Islamic men and white women *sniggers*

    • Michael says:

      04:38pm | 28/07/11

      Love that shakey ukulele.

    • Moby says:

      05:37pm | 28/07/11

      I rest my case. It also shows how the left leads with a political agenda first and foremost.

    • Ash says:

      01:01pm | 28/07/11

      Yawn

      *stands up and walks away from computer and gets on with life….*

    • MarK says:

      02:49pm | 28/07/11

      What is this “life” of which you speak?

    • David V. says:

      01:22pm | 28/07/11

      Tell me do you think it’s really only a Western problem? Do you even see what goes on in Japan, Korea and China? What about the hatred of Japanese and Koreans regularly whipped up in China by their media and keyboard warriors with state support? Or the Taiwanese talk shows which bash Koreans regularly and even allow some peroxided loser to sing a hate song on a talk show?

    • Ben81 says:

      01:25pm | 28/07/11

      I’m not worried about the initial reaction from Bolt, I unashamedly had similar assumptions.
      I’m not sure what he thought he’d achieve though by appearing so desperate to try to prove the guy isn’t a christian and water down that he’s of the ‘right’, as if it can’t be admitted under any circumstances that non islamic militants can be capable of this kind of thing. 
      I read his column in the newspaper about it yesterday and went to have a look at the rest of what he’d been saying, it really does come across as a bit pathetic.  He seems to have pleased the happy clappy crowd who quote the bible anyway.  He’s playing political games with it just like plenty of others.

    • James says:

      01:52pm | 28/07/11

      Bolt is on a cash for controversy gravey train to mega yachtdom, if you ignore the naughty little boy he will go away.

    • Riverview says:

      02:06pm | 28/07/11

      Oddly one thing to admire about Bolt and all his madness is that he hasn’t gone into to hiding like his fellow right wing commentators devine, akerman, blair, Albrechtsen who have been curiously silent about the happenings in Norway.

    • Shane Coghlan says:

      02:10pm | 28/07/11

      The coverage from this issue from the christian right has been very interesting. First they jumped on their anti-muslim bandwagon with very little justification. There have been next to no apologies worldwide.

      Next, their treatment of a christian terrorist is completely different to their treatment of a muslim one. Suddenly the fact he is a christian and ideologically to the right is irrelevant and this guy was a lone loony. We know if it was a muslim these things wouldn’t be and they would be pounced on by conservative columnists worldwide to push their nationalist agenda.

    • David V. says:

      06:42pm | 28/07/11

      So nationalism is “evil”? Is it a crime to stand up for your country’s heritage and sovereignty? Or is it just another double standard?

    • Foof says:

      02:24pm | 28/07/11

      Bolt is a better spinner than Warney. He can twist better than Chubby Checker. He can spew bile better than the kid in The Exorcist. He has the tact and grace of Sir Les Patterson. And his columns and mouthy rants on the telly can make me laugh till I choke. Now that’s multi-tasking at it’s most impressive. He’s Alan Jones with more hair. Leave the man alone. He’s the best entertainment around.

    • Chris says:

      02:33pm | 28/07/11

      It is entirely possible that Andrew Bolt is not entirely wrong in what he said or the assumptions he made. Those with a real knowledge of terrorism will no doubt be undertaking a thorough investigation of the Norwegian disaster but even if they do find connections it is unlikely that the rest of us will learn of them. Bolt at least gives people something to think about - unlike those who dutifully kowtow to the ALP in order to get their press access in Canberra.

    • Socrates of The Hills (NSW) says:

      02:40pm | 28/07/11

      Shit - you mean to say of course it wasn’t a Muslim ???
      Strange how that’s what we have all come to expect though, isn’t it !!!!!!!!!!!

    • Johnny atheos says:

      03:03pm | 28/07/11

      This appalling act presents a great opportunity for the lefties/ cultural relativists to confuse and close down further debate. They will try to make the most of this tragedy as it helps in their deluded role as apologist for Islamists even though many its victims are Muslims. The continued appeasement to Islamists does a great disservice to Secular and Reformist Muslims and Muslims who would like to leave its deadly embrace if only allowed is exasperating.

      Regarding Bolt, my understanding of the Mohammedan religion was from first hand experience and research. I disagree with most of his ranting’s which I seldom see or hear.

    • Andrew says:

      04:09pm | 28/07/11

      This has nothing to do with Islam, hence the point of this article. And there in lies the rub. It is his ‘ranting’s’ as you put it that are wrong on just about every level. Yet they are unchallanged most of the time.

      Despite what his apologists claim, it has nothign to do with freedom of speech being shut down. Instead it is him be held accountable for his rants.

    • Occam's Blunt Razor says:

      04:14pm | 28/07/11

      No matter what religion or politics a terrorist comes from - it takes a psycho/sociopath to plan this sort of attack.

      Bolt was not on his Pat Malone in assuming initially it was a Muslim terrorists attack.

      Surely it is reasonable to look at what sort of impact the clash of Muslim culture with Western Cultures is having within societies that they have chosen to migrate to.

    • Shooter says:

      04:24pm | 28/07/11

      Islam is bad for the health.

    • Max says:

      04:24pm | 28/07/11

      It’s always nice to see journalists pointing out this guy’s - well, what I can only refer to as ‘journalistic filth’ - every now and then ...

    • Jay says:

      04:43pm | 28/07/11

      Your surname sums up your journalistic abilities. Please just let in every person who wishes to come here.In fact we should also give up our houses to accomodate them. You quote two names who have accepted Australia for what it is and automatically every muslim is the same. Well they are not. Many do not agree with our laws and culture.The are pushing and using Sharia Law in secret but you and your lefties are too stupid to see what is occuring. I challenge you to get Bob Brown to go to Iran where they hang gay people and tell them to get into the future.They would not even let him into the country, neither would Saudi Arabia. Then we had Christine Nixon and her politically correct police force that gagged her members from admitting that Victoria had a serious ethnic gang problem. We have Muslim enclaves developing in the North similiar to NSW which are quickly becoming no go areas. I do not care what religion people want to believe; all I care is that when you come to Australia you leave your baggage at the door and that includes your burka.Take the Koran and read it to your hearts content, but do not forget it is a religion based on ignorance and will forever be stuck in the 6th Century.

    • David V. says:

      04:52pm | 28/07/11

      This is the logic of the whole blame game:
      left = good, right = evil
      white man = bad, others = good
      When Islamic groups carry out terrorist attack, it’s the West’s fault. When a white guy does it, it’s the West’s fault too. So we can’t win can we?

      I have a useful top for you. If you’ve got a problem with Western, European culture then:
      - don’t use a computer.
      - don’t drive a car.
      - don’t watch TV.
      - don’t use phones.
      - don’t play football.

      Do I have to go on? Those things are very much products of our culture and thinking. So how do you prefer to live? In the Stone Age, without clothing and raw food? Give me a break!

    • The Editor says:

      04:54pm | 28/07/11

      Plenty of discussion, plenty of pageviews.
      Mission accomplished.
      Well done on your first post to the punch Geoff, we’ll get you back in next week.

      The Editor

    • PB says:

      04:58pm | 28/07/11

      What a relief to read something sensible in the Punch. Usually it’s a forum for every Right Whinger with a tinfoil hat and an axe to grind. To read something thoughtful, intelligent and rational is a rare treat.

      Keep up the good work. I might have to bookmark you.

    • David V. says:

      05:34pm | 28/07/11

      Terrorism isn’t rooted in religion. It’s not rooted in Christianity or Islam. Its roots lie in the violently anti-religion French Revolution where hapless peasants in the Vendee were massacred. Any kind of fundamentalism or terror related to religion is due to a corrupted, modernist perversion of religion, not out of any sense of tradition. The LTTE invented suicide bombing, as they originated in a culture where (unlike Jewish, Christian or Muslim faiths) suicide is not seen as a sinful taboo.

    • David V. says:

      05:39pm | 28/07/11

      Plus, as a Catholic, it’s a fact the worst persecutions of Catholics in the last two centuries have not been by other Christians or by Muslims but by violently anti-Christian regimes. So it’s not other religions that are my enemy, but the corrupted secular modernist world and its nihilistic materialism.

    • graham says:

      09:54pm | 28/07/11

      Materialism ? Do you mean the way that the catholic church has colonised, raped, and robbed countries all over the world with their campaign of fear, retribution, and blackmail of ” do what we say, or reside in eternal damnation”?. Is that what you mean, you purveyor of superstitious nonsense that terrifies children and naive adults into following your doctrine of total submission to a diety of your own design?   
      Am I “corrupted? By what? No, David V., I’m not corrupted, nor am I blind. You are entitled to your opinion, and you are entitled to be blind to reality. And the worst persecutions of catholics in the last two, (ten?), centuries have been by catholics. By their deeds you shall know them.
      The “corrupted secular world” and whatever didn’t burn the witches, ex-communicate doubters so as to stifle debate, conduct “Star Chamber” inquisitions leading to executions of whomesoever may disagree with their paganistic rites, including the drinking of blood and the eating of bodies , even if symbolically, and the refusal to accept juvenile fairy stories that apparently are the mainstay of your crutch.
      I feel sorry for you.

    • M.A. says:

      05:43pm | 28/07/11

      Statistics clearly indicate that before the end of the 21st century, the culture and religious nature of the population of Australia will have become predominately Muslim.

      For example, in a 2011 report, the Washington-based Pew Research Centre’s Forum on Religion and Public Life, The Future of the Global Muslim Population: Projections for 2010-2030. Using figures from the Australian Bureau of Statistics, it predicts Muslim numbers in Australia will increase by 80 per cent, compared with 18 per cent for the population overall growing from 399,000 at present to 714,000. This is due first to higher reproduction rates - Muslim families typically have four or more children, while other Australians have one or two - and, second, to migration from Muslim majority countries such as Afghanistan, Somalia, Iraq and Iran.

    • ourkid says:

      06:16pm | 28/07/11

      BS

    • melle says:

      06:45pm | 28/07/11

      By the end of the 21st century…........predominantly Muslim.

      This could be right.

    • David V. says:

      06:14pm | 28/07/11

      Next time you see a Pom like myself or other Europeans around, thank us that we work hard and make money for this country, and likely paying everyone else’s welfare bills, rather than lazing on the beach and smoking bongs. Be grateful because without us you have nothing. Back home, I’ve had to warn many a girl to be careful with foreign men, since their lives and health could be endangered.

    • angelo says:

      06:26pm | 28/07/11

      Andrew Bolt seems to plagiarise all his opinions from Fox News. Here’s Jon Stewart’s take on the conservative media playing of the victim card on the matter of the perpetrator’s christianity.
      http://bit.ly/qTlHYK

    • melle says:

      06:55pm | 28/07/11

      @David V.  I hate paying the bills of all those lazing on the beach - and all over the country, as well.

    • David V. says:

      08:09pm | 28/07/11

      That’s what you get when you allow people to come here who are “takers” and not interested in contributing to the country in any meaningful way.

      You reap what you sow. Men’s health is worse than women’s, and rates of depression and suicide in young men are alarming. If the courts and schools were not so grossly unfair and we actually had fair rights in parenting this would not be the case.

    • REPLY says:

      11:42pm | 28/07/11

      Melle…I hate it when people can’t find the correct reply button, you’ve missed me twice in the last two posts.

    • David V. says:

      07:09pm | 28/07/11

      If you lovely “progressives” want to do anything useful, then rescuing women and children from abusive and dangerous environments would make you far more noble than sitting there attacking those who disagree with you. But then if you’re cultural relativists, you probably think those horrors are acceptable. At least I have the heart to look after family and pets.

    • Adrian says:

      07:28pm | 28/07/11

      At the end of the day, the world’s media, Bolt included, was relying on something someone posted on an internet forum frequented by people purporting to be muslim extremists.

      An internet forum post. Reported as the gospel truth by the world’s media.

      I just read a post on a forum from a guy who claims he works with Elvis doing nightfill at the Coles at Top Ryde in Sydney. I look forward to ‘Elvis is alive and working in Sydney’ leading the headlines around the world when I wake up in the morning.

    • Fog Badger says:

      07:45pm | 28/07/11

      Too many words.

    • the fog will lift says:

      08:06pm | 28/07/11

      Rest.

    • RB says:

      07:59pm | 28/07/11

      Gee, Geoff, by dropping Bolts name you have actually managed to get a few replies to your lefty squealing article.Dont worry mate, maybe you will be able to do it on your own one day.Now havnt you got a protest to get to somewhere?Those placards wont hold themselves you know….....  smile

    • John says:

      08:07pm | 28/07/11

      When a society is ruled by a cabal, when it is supposed to be a democracy, then the illusion of democracy must be shown to the people. Newscorp makes it out like they are the opposition, but in reality they are part of the cabal. Eg is that Bolt believes in the 9/11 fairy tale, News-corp has done heaps of war propaganda to manipulate the western people to go to war in Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya. Look at front pager (Wiki leaks Assange) who also believes in the 9/11 fairy tale that Islamic hijackers caused three structured buildings to collapse on 9/11. The same goes with glen beck, works for newscorp try’s to pull in 9/11 truthers with half truths. It’s all a false opposition. The reality is there is no real democracy in the west. The real political body’s are played off against one another so that the cabal can rule over us. This what has happened in Norway, the elite can’t stand the European Nationalists, and they can’t stand the far-left. But the reality is the far-left were created by cabal to counter the Nationalists, but now they have turned on them. So the game is now to play them off one another. So it’s human stupidity that makes it possible for the cabal rule over us, if people only were intelligent enough to see through the facade. The entire western mainstream media, bankers and political parties would crumble. So basically the entire west is living a lie. It’s amazing that even the new’s reporters can’t seem to see this, then again they are on a wage and must go with the flow. Maybe they turn a blind eye?

    • Aden Crocker says:

      08:08pm | 28/07/11

      Bolt is a joke. I know he’s not stupid but he just loves to make up any facts that support his viewpoint.
      It’s about time people on the far right realised that they can be just like the islamic terrorists they condemn.
      But I have to blame the media for not checking their facts, instead they #blamethemuslims because westerners aren’t fond of them, besides they seem to be an easy target

    • MattB24 says:

      08:12pm | 28/07/11

      Making a point of, or focusing on, Bolt’s jump-the-gun assigning of blame to Islamic terrorists isn’t really worth it. His approach was wrong, but he certainly wasn’t the only outlet to jump to that conclusion, or report it as fact. It’s the minor, insignificant part of what he’s been posting this week.

      Where he’s pulled back the curtain to reveal what a fraud he truly is, has been in his continual attempts since to try and pretend away the fact that this guys founding beliefs/ideology/‘cause’ dovetailed near perfectly to the line and ideology Bolt is pushing every day. That does not in any way - on it’s own - discredit that line or ideology, and does not in any way condemn all who subscribe to it. The guy is a violent extremist, and a violent extremist is a violent extremist, no matter what the cause or belief they are taking to the violent extreme.

      If Bolt had followed by stepped forward and made an intellectual, moderate case or defense for his beliefs as legitimate, wrestling them back from the extreme, while condemning both this mans actions and roundly condemning any beliefs that turn these fears violent, then he might have deserved some respect, or at least, would have deserved a place in the conversation and debate. 

      However, in not doing so, and instead just trying to pretend that this guy is anything but what he actually is, believes anything but what he actually does, was influenced by anyone other than who he actually was, all Bolt is doing is proving himself once and for all to be nothing but the anti-intellectual, supremely narrow ideological fraud that a lot of us have always believed him to be, and as such, deserves no place in any conversation or debate on the issue, as that’s clearly not what he’s about.

      So given that - this is own goal from the Punch. There’s no honesty to Bolt, he is a fraud. Don’t feed the troll.

    • David V. says:

      09:55pm | 28/07/11

      What’s a fraud? Half the world’s “cultures” are frauds, based on stupid, toxic and immoral ways. Hence any need for “diversity” is crock since European culture has given us everything that’s ever needed to be, including a sense of decency.

    • David V. says:

      08:49pm | 28/07/11

      What is most ironic is that Scandinavian societies pride themselves on tolerances precisely because they are tolerant of diversity of views, just like the USA. In Germany, any kind of far right, far left or religious extremist ideology (including Islamic extremism and Scientology) is subject to monitoring if seen as a threat to democracy and can even be banned. However even this “defensive democracy” is now under strain.

      One must ask how far have we gone in the post-WWII, post-Civil Rights era in promoting a consensus of enforced guilt about our culture and tradition, which marginalises opinions running counter to the established liberal consensus.

    • melle says:

      09:20pm | 28/07/11

      @MattB24, If you’ve always believed Bolt to be a fraud, why would you be reading him, still.  No place in any conversation or debate ......  and you do 5 paragraphs on him.


        “on it’s own”  =  on it is own     so .......  on its own. 
      When you write a sermon, it looks better if you don’t use apostrophes where they don’t belong.

    • graham says:

      10:23pm | 28/07/11

      melle.. The comma after ‘him’ before ‘still’ is misplaced and wrong.
      The term is possessive, “on it’s own” not a contraction of ” on it is own”.
      Sometimes you insist on convincing us that you are not very bright. You’ve succeeded.
      Bolt is a fraud, as you mentioned, but we always need to keep an eye on these frauds, don’t you agree. It’s simple, because its the proper way to protect ourselves. And our language, which you seem to have no regard for. Except for erroneous criticism. Happy now, or are you still prepared to support the Fascist approach?

    • David V. says:

      11:16pm | 28/07/11

      Growing up in the old country, we were poor but were a close-knit and loving community, and I had loving parents. Then when I moved out, I saw how different the rest of the world was. I moved here, I find immigrants of different cultures who don’t know how to work, treat their wives and children like crap, yet still expect this country to give them something. Of course, it’s the same in every other developed country.

      Even the wonderful sport of football has been polluted both by money and a lack of regard for tradition. Hardly anyone you can identify with now when they don’t come from the same area.

    • T.Williams says:

      07:10am | 29/07/11

      Growing up in the old country (Wales) we were poor but were a close-knit and loving community, and I had loving parents. Coming here and living in Brunswick in 1978, I was amazed at the novel experience of a suburb of mainly Greek and Italian migrants living in a close-knit and loving community…all being blithely ignored by a city of inward-looking uncultured white Australians and whining ex-English, and only to be referred to as ‘wogs”, and in those days it wasn’t a humorous, joking epithet.. Over the ensuing decades, I have had the pleasure of living in, and working in the Vietnamese community, who are every bit as loving, close-knit and started out here as poor as church mice. I see exactly the same with the growing Indian community and also people from Ethiopia and Sudan. The only thing that hasn’t changed over those years is the same rump of whining, self-regarding white people who just don’t want to try and be friends with people not of their own ethnicity. I think they should just go elsewhere to live.

    • David V. says:

      11:09am | 29/07/11

      Except that having travelled to places like the Middle East and South America, I saw first hand the horrific mistreatment of women and children by their own men. I never imagined people were capable of it because it never existed back home and didn’t until foreigners imported it.

    • Pete says:

      11:23pm | 28/07/11

      The worst thing about Bolt is the disservice he does to reasonable ideas with his alarmist, over-emotional claptrap. It just feeds the fire of people like Waleed Aly who with the standard victimhood schtick are busy trying to create a phony right-wing Christian plot. The idea behind that of course is to create some moral equivalence between one psycho and a widespread, wholesale Islamic fundamentalist movement with its demonstrably large scale destruction and medieval cruelty.

    • stephen says:

      11:36pm | 28/07/11

      The comma after ‘still’ gives the sentence the imperative sense, for emphasis.
      It is not wrong, and, actually, all grammar isn’t if the meaning is clear and unambiguous, as his first sentence, is.
      And Bolt is not a fraud if he believes what he says is true.

    • Greg says:

      12:58am | 29/07/11

      Breivik’s manifesto details his thoughts and motivations in extreme detail, without any possibility of inadvertant or accidental mis-interpretation, so it’s not hard to determine who is distorting the truth in this discussion.

      Breivik states that he is “culturally Christian”, but not an active church-going believer. He had inherited a christian-based values and culture, but in strictly religious terms he was virtually agnostic, probably the same as most Australians would describe themselves. .

      So Lemon’s attempts to use him to vilify Christianity are disingenuous.

      So are the media’s attempts to portray him as a far right-wing neo-Nazi.

      Breivik left no room for misunderstanding in his manifesto. He was an anti-racist, with African and Asian friends. He had no problem with Buddhists or Hindus. He was pro gay marriage. He was pro-Zionist.

      But mostly was anti-Muslim, not because of their race, but because of their culture. He disliked Albanians and Kosovars just as much as Saudis and Pakistanis.

      He is not at all popular on right-wing white separatist websites either, with even those who share his anti-Muslim opinions condemning him for killing so many white people.

      So he doesn’t readily fit into any stereotype, not even the crazy madman one, given the intelligence required to implement his plan in an era with enhanced anti-terrorism policies and controls.

      But that fact that he is not a Muslim terrorist makes this a “man bites dog” story. Bolt was correct in criticising the majority of the media for their focus on Breivik’s alleged Christianity, but what else did he expect from them?

      They certainly were not going to focus on his anti-racist, pro-Zionist or pro-homosexual opinions. But it is always OK to criticise Christians. After all, what are they going to do about it? Turn the other cheek?

      But if Bolt is niave, Lemon is either incredibly ignorant or a bare-faced liar. To claim that the Old Testament is more important than the New Testament to Christians is ludicrous, and the exact opposite of the truth.

      If the US has a predisposition to the Old Testament “eye for an eye” mentality, then that is more likely due to the influence of the Jewish lobby, who have no regard for the New Testament at all.

      And in case anybody is wondering, no I am not a Christian myself. I can’t respect any insipid region that changes its beliefs and abandons its principles according to political fashion, and is too weak and cowardly to stand up for itself.

    • David V. says:

      12:02pm | 29/07/11

      He even called the BNP a “hate group” and had no time for them. And apparently this is mutual.

    • JamesD says:

      11:31am | 29/07/11

      The best way to deal with Bolt is to turn the page. He has become almost laughable.

    • Brendan says:

      11:49am | 29/07/11

      Well, no surpise here at Bolt’s lack of taste, integrity & skill in covering these horrific events. Once a hack, always a hack.

    • graham says:

      03:45pm | 29/07/11

      Did anybody ever hear of someone with an Afrikaaner background having an unbiased view about race, religion, politics, or any form of
      democracy? The Sth. African version of the KKK was worse than the U.S. version. It still is, only now it has been moved to Australia.
      I have a list of people that I do not admire. Bolt tops the list.

    • David V. says:

      05:13pm | 29/07/11

      South Africa today is a hell-hole.

    • David V. says:

      07:23pm | 29/07/11

      The media can lie alright. They lied when two amazing footballers - George Best and Paul Gascoigne- were falsely accused of domestic violence. They ruined Gazza’s life in the process. Those media goons must be really feeling happy about that one.

    • RobJ says:

      09:26am | 30/07/11

      Ahhh, I see, you’re deluded as well..

    • Kipling says:

      11:33am | 30/07/11

      Actually Nick 42 Socrates was around long before there was the socio political construct of right and left wings - that occured in France around the time of the Revolution….
      However, the original Socrates was demonstratively a critical thinker, on that point alone our Socrates has demonstrated clear evidence for a case to change his pen name…

    • Karma says:

      08:54am | 01/08/11

      @KH - a quick search of the article reveals the only time Finland is mentioned is in your comment actually…. sorry to bust your bubble on that one. (Unless the article has been altered since it was originally posted).

      And seriously everyone else: I’ve read only half the (fairly acidic) posts to this article - don’t you all have something better to do??

      Also for the record, I’m not a leftie or right wing but someone who values an informed and balanced discussion. Bolt is a jackass spouting fear and loathing to the masses, just like Alan Jones.
      That is all. Have a nice day!  smile

    • Obese andy says:

      09:13am | 01/08/11

      Halt the Bolt!

      Dishonest, populist ‘hate and fear’ broadcasting has consequences, Bolt is a dangerous tool.

    • TJ's says:

      02:37pm | 01/08/11

      Bolt is a joke. period.

    • Elisheva Brucke says:

      06:23pm | 02/08/11

      Geoff, way to go. In one blog post you managed to completely ignore Islamic nation’s initial insistence that the Norway massacre was the work of the dastardly nation of Zionists - Israel; totally mutilate the Jewish perspective of “The Old Testament” using your western Christian bias (case in point, an ‘eye for an eye’ equates to financial remuneration, it was Christians who applied it literally); and demean yourself as a journalist by denying that yes, there is indeed a rising incidence of violent crime committed by Muslims in Norway.  You did all this in an attempt to mock Andrew Bolt.  By all means, mock Bolt.  But don’t bring down journalistic standards while you’re doing so.

    • Zac says:

      01:26pm | 03/08/11

      As reports began to come in, it was the last subject in the world you would have imagined being used for political point-scoring. But if ever someone was going to do just that, it was Andrew Bolt.>>>

      “The point is that it wasn’t just right-wing commentators like Blair and Bolt who were pointing the finger at Islamists in the hours after the Oslo explosion. Just about everyone was.”

      Thats right “just about everyone was”. Here are some examples.

      Well, Bolt was certainly an hour and a half late in realising the Islamist claim was a hoax.

      “But hours later still, the UK Sun’s first edition hit the streets of Britain with this front page…”

      ‘AL-QAEDA’ MASSACRE
      NORWAY’S 9/11

      — The Sun, 23rd July, 2011

      .”.. a jihadist group is most likely to be behind the blast ...”

      — The Guardian online, 22nd July, 2011

      There are some more on our left leaning ABC, check it out ....

      http://www.abc.net.au/mediawatch/transcripts/s3282937.htm

      But that didn’t stop you from bashing Bolt. Why? Because he doesn’t suit your “Atheistic evangelism”. You used the very sad tradegy to bash Bolt and most importanlty the soft target Christians. That was your goal. Whilst, you finger point others you convienently ignored the fact that you are the biggest hypocrite.

      You boldly declared Anders Behring Breivik’s is a Christian but his 1500 page manifesto tells entirely a different story.

      “As this is a cultural war, our definition of being a Christian does not necessarily constitute that you are required to have a personal relationship with God or Jesus,” he writes. “Being a Christian can mean many things; That you believe in and want to protect Europe’s Christian cultural heritage. The European cultural heritage, our norms (moral codes and social structures included), our traditions and our modern political systems are based on Christianity – Protestantism, Catholicism, Orthodox Christianity and the legacy of the European enlightenment (reason is the primary source and legitimacy for authority). It is not required that you have a personal relationship with God or Jesus in order to fight for our Christian cultural heritage and the European way. In many ways, our modern societies and European secularism is a result of European Christendom and the enlightenment. It is therefore essential to understand the difference between a ‘Christian fundamentalist theocracy’ (everything we do not want) and a secular European society based on our Christian cultural heritage (what we do want). So no, you don’t need to have a personal relationship with God or Jesus to fight for our Christian cultural heritage. It is enough that you are a Christian-agnostic or a Christian atheist (an atheist who wants to preserve at least the basics of the European Christian cultural legacy (Christian holidays, Christmas and Easter)). The PCCTS, Knights Templar is therefore not a religious organisation [sic] but rather a Christian ‘culturalist’ military order.”

      Read more: Terrorist proclaimed himself ‘Darwinian,’ not ‘Christian’ http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=325765#ixzz1TvptaH42

      Well even Richard Dawkins claims to be a cultural Christian. IF Dawkins is a Christian then Anders Breivik is a Christian as well.

      Now that I have disproved you, are you willing to apologise to Bolt and billions of Christians? Your intolerance of Christians is showing. Mind you it is Atheists who killed millions in the name of “Atheistic Utopia” around the world and has done heaps more worse things to plant earth and humanity. Think about that.

    • Anne Stocks says:

      07:11pm | 03/08/11

      P. Darvio in regards to your post the link on it is quoting Scripture that is read out of context and without understanding as to it’s real meaning, also please share where it says in the Bible that Babies can be Aborted and where the words Dirty water are stated as the means of doing it and that it is a Christian Priest who preform these Abortions,  what exactly is the Book and Chapter and verse. You are either lying or very much deceived by your own understanding or others.

      Before anyone quotes Scripture to back their Atheist views they need to remember without knowing personally the God who inspired them,  they have absolutely no understanding to there real meaning and purpose.

      I have never read so much rubbish in all the years I have been a Christian even from other Atheists in regard to what you and your link claimed, how sad that you believe it is True.

      I thought very carefully as to whether to respond to your evil claims and those on the link you supplied, not wanting to draw attention to them but your extreme slander of The Almighty God our Creator who Christians Love and hold in great reverence and whose Goodness is in no way questionable or is it unending,  made it very necessary to protect others who may be also deceived.

      All Scripture is inspired by God for correction or teaching it is Truth and in it is great treasures of wisdom and knowledge some of which man has no understanding of although all will be revealed and is being so even at this time in History ...God is the same Yesterday, Today and Tomorrow and all He has done or will do is motivated by His Love even if you and others don’t understand it.

      I wonder P. Darvio if I was to accuse someone you Love greatly,  assuming there is someone of course,  of the evil you have accused my Lord and Friend of without any evidence and based totally on worldly understanding, how you would feel ...

      For those of you who do not know ...“God is Love and can do no evil” ... for those of us who do know He is Love, we never forget it or doubt it.

      Kind regards Anne.

    • Anne Stocks says:

      09:24am | 04/08/11

      So does God have Love and Compassion ? we are alive aren’t we,  He could strike us all dead if He chose to, He has that right He created us but it is not His will that anyone perish,  He is giving His Children time to come to heart repentance.

      Oh I forgot there are those who don’t believe that He is a God of Love and Compassion, after all He flooded the whole world didn’t He… have you ever asked Him why ? perhaps if you did you would find out that it was because of His Love and Compassion.

      If you had a Son or Daughter and they were hurting themselves and others without remorse,  would you not grieve greatly ? and would you not try to stop them from doing so,  but what if you knew they would never be sorry and so continue to hurt even defenceless Babies and Children burning them alive to appease their gods and that those who were not used for this purpose would grow up to do the same or even worse if that is possible,  perhaps enjoying tearing a person apart by tying them to 4 horses and sending them in different directions… you don’t believe they would…History tells us they did!

      Many Pagan cultures did horrific and shameful things and mankind still does today and they become worse not better because even with all their worldly knowledge based on their own understanding and focus and motivated by their own lusts, without Salvation Mankind digresses they do not evolve in to something better which is shown very clearly in Creation, this is why God needs to put a stop to what Atheism produces long term, evil is shown by a lack of Love and evil seeks to destroy and devour causing much suffering and heartache. 

      God is Love and can do no evil , what many may consider evil may in Truth be merciful and Loving and this is shown throughout the Scriptures, God sought to rescue and protect His Children and still does. 

      It seems from some of these posts that they are trying to blame God for the wrong choices they or others have made and are still making now as they have done in the past, it is them not God who is responsible for how they will spend eternity,  it is their choice and always will be, so unless they come to heart repentance they will be held accountable for the wrong they have done in words and actions. God has Lovingly and Sacrificially provided a way out for them and all Mankind, because of His great Love,  which means it’s not His will they suffer or that anyone else does.

      As it is clearly shown to those who have eyes to see and ears to hear, God is indeed Love and can do no evil, it is a persons own choice if they continue to do evil by their rejection of His forgiveness and the freedom He offers them in Christ Jesus.

      Salvation is a free gift no one is good enough to earn it,  but it can only be received when we believe in the giver and seek Him with all our heart because it is in knowing God that our doubts and fears are taken away which brings us to True heart repentance which means we can be perfected in Love .

      Choose wisely time is short as clearly seen in God’s Creation!

      Kind regards Anne

    • serivce says:

      06:49pm | 08/05/12

      I cannot thank you enough for the blog post.Thanks Again. Great.

    • cheap says:

      07:12pm | 11/05/12

      3IkojM Great, thanks for sharing this blog article.Really looking forward to read more. Keep writing.

 

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