Enough bullpit. Destroy these murderous mutts

Matt says:

02:36pm | 18/08/11

I couldn’t agree more Elphaba.

To put it in perspective:
“Each year, 4.7 million Americans are bitten by dogs. These bites result in approximately 16 fatalities; about 0.0002 percent of the total number of people bitten. These relatively few fatalities offer the only available information about breeds involved in dog bites. There is currently no accurate way to identify the number of dogs of a particular breed, and consequently no measure to determine which breeds are more likely to bite or kill.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pit_bull

From http://www.sydney100.com/snakes-spiders-sharks.htm it shows that there are on average 1.8 deaths from bee stings per year. Seeing as we are more than 13 times smaller than the US, we can multiply that out to 23.4 deaths per year by bees as opposed to 16 for dogs.

QUICK!! We must kill all bees! Mass slaughter! Kill them all! Enough is enough! They are deranged and dangerous!! etc…

Maybe we should also legislate against scuba diving, swimming and baths. We can legislate against that stuff, can’t we?

DaisyDuke says:

02:45pm | 18/08/11

Pretty sure they already did make it illegal to breed and import these dogs.

They just need to enforce.

Elphaba says:

02:46pm | 18/08/11

@Matt, thanks.  Well said, there are a whole host of things that happen we are at risk from every day.

Yes, it is terribly unfortunate when a child is involved in something like this.  It’s tragic.  I cannot imagine how the mother feels.  And it is true, some dogs are raised with less than appropriate tasks in mind.  I would fully support throughly vetting all dog owners and sending them to mandatory obedience training with their dog.

But to call for a mass slaughter just because they’re not ‘fitting in’ is thoroughly disgusting.  It actually makes me feel a little sick.  We, the people, are the problem.  Not the dog.

Dan says:

03:10pm | 18/08/11

@Elphaba and @Matt - only the pitbulls need to be slaughtered, not all dogs, not all animals we don’t like, just the deadly pitbull. That is because they were bred purely as killing machines, they have no other unique talent. Only evil people want a dog like that anyway. Its not the sort of dog you get as a companion.

I have a red heeler cross german shepard that was nearly killed by one of these things at the shops. I was unleashing her from a pole when one of these things came across the carpark, unleashed, salivating. Until you’ve seen an attack like they can do you don’t know what you are talking about. They are evil, evil animals. The only reason my dog is still alive (apart from the $5,000 I spent to save her) is because the pitbull locked onto her neck as I reefed her back on the lead trying to pull her out of its path and by fluke it locked onto her collar not her neck. It took the dog getting its head slammed in a car door more than 15 times before it would let go.

Kill all pitbulls - they should never have been bred in the first place.

Knemon says:

03:11pm | 18/08/11

One of your better comments Elphaba…well said.

Kendaa says:

03:13pm | 18/08/11

Totally agree with every word Elphaba.  Talk about hysterical ranting.  And yet nowhere in this rant is there any recognition that if a pit bull (or ANY dog for that matter - what was the subject of hysterical outcries in the 70s and 80s?  Oh yes, dobbies and rotties - what’s next, chihuahuas?) is aggressive, the owner is to blame.  Probably has testosterone poisoning and just has to have a dog to shape that’s Large and In Charge.  For the love of God, look at the Michael Vick dogs.  Most of them have been rehabilitated and are in good and loving homes, where they are the most loving of animals.  And they were trained to kill other dogs in dog fighting. 

Oh, and Anthony?  While you’re ranting, you just might go and have a look at that dog fighting link you were so quick to post above.  See what happens to these dogs, driven to kill out of loyalty to and love for the tiny little men who own them and who can’t get their kicks any other way than by watching pit bulls tear each other apart. 

And while you’re at it, go and have a look at what happens to the pit bulls who REFUSE to fight and who end up as bait dogs for the ones who will and are trained to kill.  Yes, they’re TRAINED to kill.

Jade says:

03:18pm | 18/08/11

Elphaba “I would fully support throughly vetting all dog owners and sending them to mandatory obedience training with their dog” I completely agree. 

I think dog owners need training as well. Dogs are a pack animal. You may think you are doing the right thing with your animal by how you treat it and things you do, when actually you aren’t. For example - letting the dog walk first through a door… you are showing your dog that it is higher ranked than you in your pack. 

People need to learn how to be the leader of their pack, other wise the dog ends up confused and it could lead to an attack because the dog is trying to reinforce its position in the pack.

Matt says:

03:30pm | 18/08/11

@Dan, just because you don’t like the breed, doesn’t mean they are evil, or should be slaughtered out of hand. One bad experience should not be used as justification to kill a whole breed of animal.

Perhaps we should kill all cats as well, whilst we’re at it? They are the very model of a killing machine (albeit of other animals, not so much humans). Where exactly do you draw the line Dan?

Elphaba says:

03:30pm | 18/08/11

@Jade, friends of my parents have got a gorgeous little Staffy that they have thoroughly trained since she basically rolled out of the womb.  She’s beautifully behaved, and they do all of that stuff like let he know where she ranks with the door entering, etc.  She sleeps outside (there was a bit of crying initially, but she got over it), but they got there through hard work and she’s gem.

Other friends of theirs have a border collie, and those people haven’t bothered to train it, they ignore it, and they don’t stimulate it.  My mum put it best - it’s a good, smart dog going to waste.

Knemon, do you try hard to be a patrnoising arsehole, or does it just come naturally?  If you can’t comment on what I’ve written without throwing in a jibe, then don’t bother.  Sod off.

Bruce says:

03:38pm | 18/08/11

No ! Anthony: Destroy these murderous ‘owners’ ! !

Bruce says:

03:38pm | 18/08/11

No ! Anthony: Destroy these murderous ‘owners’ ! !

Sam says:

04:08pm | 18/08/11

Dan,

Funny you should say that.  I have been bitten (required stitches) by both my neighbours Red Heeler and a German Sheppard so should your dog be put down as a result. 

By the way this is just a comment as I love red heelers (Mine just died).

Kika says:

04:21pm | 18/08/11

Get a brain Elphaba.  Do Chihuahua’s kill people?

Kika says:

04:28pm | 18/08/11

I can’t believe the mentality of some people.

Haven’t you people heard of a little thing called Deoxyribonucleic acid (DNA). HUMANS bred these dogs to be killing machines. That is what they are designed to do. A chihuahua or a Border Collie is not bred to kill PEOPLE.  PIT BULLS ARE DESIGNED TO BRING DOWN BULLS AND HAVE GENETIC ABNORMALITIES IN THEIR AMYGDALAS WHICH CONTROL AGGRESSION.

It is NOT the owner who is responsible for the pitbull being HARD WIRED AND BRED TO KILL. The owner yes has responsibility to keep their dog fenced up and from killing people, and for training it. I agree. But no level of training is going to stop a Pit Bull from deciding one day to lash out at a little kid or a frail old person because their genetics have affected their amydalas to process aggression. They can snap at any point.

They are bred to bring down bulls = PIT BULL.  They are NOT bred to be cute cuddly family dogs.

Anubis says:

04:29pm | 18/08/11

A better solution would be for mandatory sterilisation of every pit bull in Australia and a total ban on importation of the breed.

Rick says:

04:38pm | 18/08/11

@Sam,

The difference is your face wasn’t bitten off and you are not disfigured for life!

Elphaba says:

04:42pm | 18/08/11

@Kika,

I didn’t say I don’t agree with limiting their ownership.  I didn’t say I disagree with strongly vetting owners, mandatory obedience classes, monitoring breeding and importing, and immediately putting dogs down that have attacked anyone causing serious injury or death.

What I did say I objected to, was a widespread mass slaughter of them (Ant’s words, not mine), just because they’re an inconvenience.  Such an attitude is disgusting.

I would have thought as a tree hugging creature loving hippie, you might have objected too.  Typical Greens hypocrite, I just love it.  Validation never tasted so good.

Dan says:

04:53pm | 18/08/11

@ Matt - I take your point but the difference is a human can stop a cat. As we saw in this tragic case with the little girl, even the owner of a pitbull often struggles to control it. So pitbulls are a lethal animal that we deliberately introduce into our civilisation. I don’t think we should.

Bees are not the same thing either. Bees are a natural part of our environment that are responsible for pollinating almost all the major crops we eat. We didn’t introduce them just to kill other dogs and make cowards feel tough. If we killed them we would kill ourselves.

@ Sam, sorry to hear that, they are wonderful companions. The thing about heelers is that they nip and attack the heels of animals, rather than trying to kill them. They have been bred to do that, because farmers didn’t want a dog that killed their livestock. Shephards are capable of being trained to be killers but again were bred to be around animals and not kill them. Shephards can be anything from an attack dog to a companion dog - it comes down to the owner and how they are raised.

Pitbulls were bred to kill other dogs. That is why they have a lockjaw. When they get the bloodlust they are unstoppable by you me or anyone without something like a taser. I know that isn’t the individual pitbulls fault, and I know killing them is harsh, I just don’t see any other way to protect the community from incidents like this one.

Shifter says:

05:07pm | 18/08/11

@Ant and Dan - (from the open thread) Pick the pit bull:

http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html

The one I thought it was initially was a Dogo Argentino. My second choice was an American Bulldog. Given that, I, a layperson cannot identify a Pit Bull by sight, I have little trust that the laypeople in the media can do the same.

So lets take it as a given that we can’t identify the dog. And kill them all. Including the shih tzu crosses, and the golden retrievers, and collies. All of them. Because one of them might be a pit bull in disguise.

Or how about we look at the deed and judge and penalise the owner accordingly. What’s manslaughter worth these days? (Probably less than fraud)

Talk about an emotion filled rant Sharwood. Take a chill pill and get some perspective.

Knemon says:

05:18pm | 18/08/11

@ Elphaba - If you see a compliment as a patronising jibe then you obviously have some issues that need dealing with, I’m guessing you’re single. I apologise if I upset you.

Dan says:

05:21pm | 18/08/11

@ shifter - none of them are pitbulls except the pup, which is a trick because a lot of pups look nothing like the adults. An adult pitbull looks a bit like number 7 but its head is squarer and its body slightly more built.

I’m sure a qualified vet would be able to determine the breed too. If necessary a DNA test would resolve any doubts.

Matt says:

05:28pm | 18/08/11

@Dan, you missed my point entirely.

At what point do you say a whole breed of animals must be exterminated? 5 deaths? 10? Regardless of the breeding, they are still somebody’s pet, and I find it truly repugnant that you think someone has the right to kill another person’s companion.

The death was a tragedy. You’ll get no argument out of me on that point. But so too is the death of a child at the beach or in a backyard pool or a car accident. The numbers do not justify the slaughter of thousands of dogs because of a knee-jerk reaction to a dog that was unfortunately not controlled properly by its owners. Blame the owner, not the dog.

Benevolent Rapscallion says:

05:51pm | 18/08/11

Actually Dan, pitbulls have never been bred to kill people. Well bred pitties are supposed to be very friendly towards people and the dog-aggressive pitties are in the minority. Judge the deed, not the breed.

More children are actually killed by their parents each year than are killed by dogs. We don’t run around locking up all parents because a small number of them cannot be trusted and we don’t consider all parents to be child murderers. In Australia, we have about 20 child murders each year. The rate is approximately the same for the US (I see figures for the US have been quoted by others here) when extrapolated out to their total population.

John A Neve says:

06:35pm | 18/08/11

Dan,
Pit bulls are just a dog, no better and no worse than any other dog.
In your case you might have been at fault, you should have let your dog have it’s head. You restricted it and put it at a disadvantage.
Any dog is a reflection of it’s owner, nothing more.

MadKat of Melbourne says:

07:46pm | 18/08/11

@ Elphaba - “But to call for a mass slaughter just because they’re not ‘fitting in’ is thoroughly disgusting.  It actually makes me feel a little sick” - actually the death of the little girl is what makes me sick - glad you have your priorities straight -

MadKat of Melbourne says:

07:54pm | 18/08/11

@ Elphaba - “just because they’re an inconvenience” - Elphaba these dogs aren’t just an inconvenience - so sorry, was it an inconvenience that this child died - how many more child have to die before people like you come to realise that these dogs are bred to kill- it’s because of people like you that children are getting attacked and dying - these dogs have already proven their own case - they need to be gotten rid of - I don’t hear of golden retrievers, labs or huskies killing children - its the dog not the owner -

Daniel D says:

07:57pm | 18/08/11

Oh my god, where to begin.

Pit bulls are not bred to bring down bulls. It is important to recognize their history.

Their ancestor and close relation the English Staffordshire bull terrier were used for bull baiting in the mid 1800’s. The English Staffy was taken to America and bred to be a larger and taller dog, then the american pit bull came from these bloodlines so it is misleading and factually incorrect to say they were bred to bring down bulls when they are physically different from the dogs that were.

Lockjaw is a myth, the dog can let go any time it wants. They just happen to have strong jaws.

A pure bred Staffordshire by nature is born without dog on human aggression. It was bred out of them when they were historically used in dog fights. Any fighting dog that attacked a human was culled. They do have dog-on-dog aggression as a trait, but that can be trained out of them. Pit bull owners and pitbull interest groups will tell you that the pure bred American pitbull shares the same traits.

So where do the problems come from?
Irresponsible owners and cross-breeding. Once you breed a pure bred dog with another breed you no longer have a guarantee that you will have the same temperment.

**Because it is no longer a pitbull**

Staffies and pitbulls can be the most loving and loyal dogs you would ever wish to have. It is irresponsible to suggest that because some idiots don’t know how to train and care for thier dogs that they should be banned or killed.

John A Neve says:

09:02pm | 18/08/11

Madkat,
Dogs don’t have to be “bred to kill”, they are born hunters and to kill is instinct.
What we need is owners to know their dog, sadly we don’t breed good owners.

Elphaba says:

09:08pm | 18/08/11

@Madkat - did I stutter?  What part of you will understand that since it is people that created this situation, they need to come up with a better solution than “mass slaughter”?

Sorry you don’t like my opinion.  We blame the people, and not alcohol, for violence.  We blame the people, and not the car, for killing pedestrians.  It’s the person, not the dog?

Huskies don’t injure people?  Jesus Christ, you might want to check that before using them as an example.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/destroy-the-dog-that-mauled-my-boy-dad-20100403-rkqq.html

Oh look!  It’s an example from Australian and everything.  Fail to you.

Elphaba says:

09:10pm | 18/08/11

@Knemon:

“I’m guessing you’re single.”

Thank you for proving my point.  You can’t say one thing without adding a barb to it.  And I’m the one with the problem?

Elphaba says:

09:18pm | 18/08/11

@Madkat, further more, please don’t paint me as some children-hating monster.  I completely agree that this individual animal should be put down - a point I have reiterated more than once.  The fact that something like this happened is tragic.  But slaughtering a breed of dog because of some isolated instance is like slaughtering all Muslims because a couple off them strapped dynamite to their chest in a public place.

Different now, huh?

But then again, when they’re just animals, it’s so easy for you to be superior, right?  Top of the food chain, it’s your right to kill that which pisses you off, huh?

Demonise me all you want.  There has to be a better solution than needlessly slughtering all animals because of a few bad eggs.  Maybe people should start accepting some responsibility for domesticating dogs and choosing to live with them, rather than callously calling for their slaughter because they’re an inconvenience.

My priorities are bad? Take a look at yourself.

Punish the owners says:

09:40pm | 18/08/11

The owners should be discussed moreso. It was right to destroy that particular dog in the recent attack, but what sickens me is the fact that the owner of that dog is not in a prison cell. Right now. The dog he bought and raised, killed a child!

Ive only come across 2 pitbull owners/enthusiasts that I know of in my life, both of them were obsessed with violence in general. Both of them were convicted violent criminals and people I was just unfortunate to have ever had any association with. The problem is these certain individuals desire a dog that can ‘kick ass’ and their violent ways help to ensure the dog is similar.

Kill all the pitbulls and these lowlife owners will just find another powerful and athletic breed of dog that is capable of mauling and killing people. Heck, even a blue heeler crossed with something to make it large is an extremely formidable dog that can pose a serious threat to adults and especially children.

MadKat of Melbourne says:

10:09pm | 18/08/11

@ Elphaba - don’t have a go at Knemon you brought his barbed comment on yourself by being rude to him - it proved no point except you ARE the one with the problem -

If these particular dogs aren’t considered dangerous then why do they have special regulations and other breeds don’t. Where there’s smoke there’s fire.

G. Bernard says:

01:08am | 19/08/11

I have owned Pit-bulls for the last 23 yrs. No one has been bitten, nor harmed nor looked at cross ways. It’s called responsible ownership.

Also when you give love - you get love - plain & simple.

Your diatribe Anthony is a visceral knee-jerk reaction of simple minded folk who have been traumatized by over-hyped media sensationalism.

People in the media - JUST LIKE YOU !

Here’s a fact for you;

Pit-Bulls are the single most abused dog on the planet.

Ignorance & prejudice always walk hand in hand.

Suck on that for a while.

acotrel: says:

05:25am | 19/08/11

This ‘dangerous breeds’ thing is bullshit. Any dog can be dangerous, bigger dogs just have more ability to harm.  A good approach would be to apply a psyche test to potential owners of dogs which might weigh over 20KG. They are the problem!

Elphaba says:

07:40am | 19/08/11

@Madkat, I’m sorry if backhanded compliments in your world qualify as someone being nice to you.  You should expect better for yourself.

Any precaution should be taken when owning a dog.  Any dickhead can get a dog, just like any dickhead can have children.  I’d applaud a serious tightening of regulations on both.

“Where there’s smoke, there’s fire.”

That’s it?  That’s the best you’ve got?  Widespread slaughter because “where there’s smoke, there’s fire?”

I’m afraid I’m unconvinced.  I also noticed no comment on that horrific bite to the face the young boy from Campelltown got from a Husky.  I’m glad I’ve given you something to think about, at least…

Michael says:

08:08am | 19/08/11

Spot on Elphaba, on all counts. People need to have a bloody good hard look at themselves once in a while.

Kika says:

08:45am | 19/08/11

Elphaba - I’ve never voted greens in my life. I just happen to know a little bit about the subject and hear countless story after story of owners breeding these things against all veterinary advice to do so and the results of these dogs out there attacking and killing other people’s pets.

Thomas Anderson says:

10:31am | 19/08/11

The simple truth is that Pitbulls are a mistake of a breed. They are not mentally stable and often attack without provocation. They were only ever kept because of their fighting ability, if they did not have that, they would be labelled a defective breed a long time ago and killed off. I think now is a good time to do just that.

The thing is, you don’t hear stories about dobermans or german shephards eating their owners, because they are smart dogs. Pitbulls are quite dumb, and more than that, they are insane. Put the whole breed down and be done with it.

John Jones says:

11:06am | 19/08/11

What a silly comment… Like we don’t already slaughter animals all the time for food or because they are pests.

I would have thought that vicious dogs that are bred to kill were well down the pecking order for protection. Maybe when we are all vegetarians you can get on your high horse about killing animals.

Brett says:

11:18am | 19/08/11

@Kika - Yes Chihuahua’s do kill people. In mexico a pack ate a woman. Actually Chihuahua’s have the most recorded bites each year, followed by Maltese terriers from memory.

I say this next bit level headed, I do not own a Pit Bull, I don’t like the dogs, I think they’re ugly and would never have one.

However, Pit Bulls were never bred to bring down bulls (whichever retard said that). Also Pitbulls were bred to fight dogs, not humans. In fact any dog that bit a human was put down and all its offspring were killed to breed out dog on human violence. A trained, pure breed pitbull should never attack a human.

Someone mentioned they are not fluffy companion dogs. In fact they are. Pitbulls make the best visiting companion dogs for hospitals and old peoples homes. Why? Because they are stoic. They have had this bred into them. They don’t react to new people or fast movements, they will stand there and take the hard pats and rough behaviour and take it all without blinking. In this respect the breed is brilliant!

So should the breed be put down? Hell no. Should the owners be jailed for manslaughter? Hell yes!!!

Kika says:

11:36am | 19/08/11

Brett - research the pedigree of Pit Bulls and where they come from, not just their American pedigree, but from their entire DNA, and tell me what they were bred to do.

They are pit bulls for a reason.

Staffordshire bull terrierMain article: Staffordshire Bull Terrier
Staffordshire bull terrierThe Staffordshire bull terrier had its beginnings in England many centuries ago when the bulldog and Mastiff were used for the sports of bull-baiting and bear-baiting; in the Elizabethan era, breeders produced large dogs for these sports but later on the 100–120 pound animal gave way to a small, more agile breed of up to 90 pounds.[

American pit bull terrierMain article: American Pit Bull Terrier
American pit bull terrierThe American pit bull terrier is the product of interbreeding between terriers and a breed of bulldogs to produce a dog that combined the gameness of the terrier with the strength and athleticism of the bulldog.[11] These dogs were initially bred in England, Ireland, and Scotland, and arrived in the United States with immigrants from these countries. In the United States, these dogs were used as catch dogs for semi-wild cattle and hogs, to hunt, to drive livestock, and as family companions[11]. Some have been selectively bred for their fighting prowess.

lance boils says:

12:11pm | 19/08/11

@Elphaba have ever been attacked by one of these animals ? I have and its f..ken terrifying . I am 182 cm and 90 kg and there was no way i could fight that beast off had i been a child it would have torn my face off .The only reason it gave up on me was because it noticed a small dog in the middle of the park and decided that would be easier to kill .Personally i prefer dogs to people most of the time but that breed has no place living among us shoot the lot of them

insertnamehere says:

12:24pm | 19/08/11

@ Dan
In reference to the ‘pick the pit bull’ link that shifter put up - number 16 is infact, a Pit Bull, and both pictures of pups are not - one is a Boerboel and the other is a Boxer pup. in all honesty it did not take me long to figure it out but, in saying that, as i have been breeding shepherds and attending dog shows since a little girl, i am familiar with numerous breeds and their characteristics.

perhaps this is the problem, uneducated and opinionated people who are making up their own facts/statistics when they know little about the breed, their history or the fact that pure animal instinct and inherited traits can not be “trained” out of an animal - it may only lessen the possibility of any such occurrences…

james says:

03:17pm | 19/08/11

i have a pitbull and a staffy they are both very capable of hurting me however there is no such thing as a bad dog only a bad owner. i have trained them both very well and i have young neighbours and cousins that i would trust them to be wih my dogs with out me there .

David says:

08:29pm | 19/08/11

@Matt,

Its pretty easy to draw the line when it becomes people who are in danger. As you said, cats kill birds and rodents, no big deal. Pitbulls can kill people.

mattkas says:

08:40pm | 19/08/11

Let’s talk about dogs in general. With the exception of guide dogs they are all useless, annoying and very many of them are dangerous to people. They cause psychological stress to many people by the constant noise that they make. It’s a sad reflection on humans that so many feel the need to have dogs for companionship or protection of property.  In my neighborhood dogs outnumber humans. The barking and howling is unbelievable 24 hours a day. The next door neighbour has three. They often wake me at 5.00 am. It isn’t safe to go for a walk in the local area where I was attacked by a pair of Boxers a year ago so I never go for walks anymore. Local government will never grasp the nettle of preventing the noise problem because of the sheer numbers of entitled dog owners, it’s just too difficult an issue to tackle. Many people substitute dogs for security alarms. Security alarms are much better, cheaper to maintain and they only make loud noise when someone is breaking into your home. Dogs don’t make insecure people strong or intelligent. I really dislike dogs, especially when they injure or kill children and would like to encourage anyone not to contribute to the dog epidemic. Anyone who is injured by a dog should speak to their solicitor immediately.

Kipling says:

11:07am | 20/08/11

Let’s face it; if a dog, any dog, mauls people it stands a fairly big chance of being put down. That is even the case if the maulee has broken and entered your premises…
As such, it seems pretty evident that destroying the dog is not working out too well for us.
Also, very clearly the common denominator in all of this is people. Pit bulls were deliberately bred by you guessed it… People. Now it seems that people have had enough of this dangerous breed so the call goes out to kill them because apparently you can’t legislate against people.
NEWSFLASH, you can legislate against people if they are asylum seekers so why not if they are ignorant and inept dog owners. It would seem at the very least a fair experiment to see how many people still want “dangerous” breeds (or any dog for that matter) if the person faces the “green dream” needle instead of the dog for any harmful and life threatening actions of the dog….
Of course the way the world is I am becoming somewhat of a misanthrope, as I get older, so it is an easy leap for me.
People are animals too and not necessarily the best example in the Kingdom despite our delusions about our lofty rise above other creatures.

Jaala says:

01:31pm | 21/08/11

For god’s sake people!! Stop trying to justify your reasons for having these godawful dogs. This isn’t about over- reacting because someone was bitten- a child was KILLED….. Mauled to death in her home . The owner should be charged and jailed for manslaughter.  All owners of these dogs should not just be fined but charged as if they committed the assault themselves- which they have by letting these dogs out in society.

lace says:

04:00pm | 21/08/11

@ Dan I’m not sure which of your stupid comments to reply to first. Ok, the one where only evil people want a pit bull anyway: I’m far from an evil person. My boyfriend and I have 2 Pit Bull mixes. I’ve never hurt a person, that didn’t attack me first, in my life. I am a quiet person who likes to read and play with my dogs, who do serve a purpose. They ARE my companions. You say they cannot be companions and they serve no purpose, my Dozer saved me. I was in a suicidal depression when I was asked to take him from the neighbor who didn’t have time for him. He was almost dead from maltreatment, starvation and parasites. Today, he is an 80lb+ angel. He wags his tail at neighbors, the mailman is not afraid of him, he plays gently with those smaller than him (puppies and children) and he comes to sit with me when I am sad. Could he rip a person’s arm off? Of course he could, but he wouldn’t without reason. Human body parts do not belong in his mouth, and he knows that. These are animals, they have to be taught acceptable behavior by us. Dogs bite each other in play and in warning, as well as to start/defend in a fight. It just takes teaching these dogs, and any other breed of dog, that human parts do not belong in their mouths.

adam perry says:

05:49pm | 21/10/11

I am speaking from experience here. earlier this year i was attacked by three (3) dogs. A rotty cross then a red cattle and to top things off a blue cattle dog. i am by all means lucky to be alive. with over 40 holes put in my body from neck to ankles. laws must change as the owner of the dogs has kept one of them. if that dog ever bites anyone again i hope she goes to jail.

engineer says:

03:03pm | 18/08/11

Agree completely. If your dog kills someone YOU get done for murder, not manslaughter, murder. If your dog attacks someone YOU get done for assault.

I don’t own a dog and don’t like them, but I’m not pig ignorant enough to try and ban them because it only hurts OTHER people, as the greenies and the anti gun lobby do. It’s really easy to persecute the other person over your percieved wrongs.

Kika says:

04:46pm | 18/08/11

Gravy - how to you ‘teach’ a dog that is BRED for aggression not to be aggressive?

That’s like trying to teach a human how to breathe under the water. Yeah, we can learn to hold our breath a long time. But our LUNGS are there which tell us to breathe oxygen.

Pit Bulls are hard wired by their breeding and genetics to be aggressive, they have lock jaws which were bred to make sure that the bull doesn’t get free and to inflict as much damage on the bull as possible.

If a dog can kill a bull what can it do to a 4 year old child?

gravy says:

07:43pm | 18/08/11

Kika i suggest you do some actual research, talk to a few PROFESSIONAL dog trainers, or even watch a few episodes of the dog whisperer. If you did any of these things it would easily answer your question on how you TRAIN a dog that is ‘bred’ for aggression not to be aggressive, it is actually quite simple.

Your attitude imo is akin to those people who want all muslims kicked out of the country because of a few fanatics or because of 911. It is based on nothing but FEAR and irrational thought. Not on actual fact.

Its pretty obvious from your comments that you know absolutely NOTHING about dog psychology and its implications on behaviour and training and aggression. Nothing.

Mitch says:

08:39pm | 18/08/11

But engineer you are pig ignorant.  Suggesting that an owner of a dog that kills someone should face murder charges proves this.  Try looking up murder in the dictionary before you throw the term around.  Not sure how banning high powered guns has been a bad thing, how many massacres have we had since Port Arthur?  Using a powerful gun to kill is well… slightly easier to do than using a powerful dog to deliberately kill, don’t you think?

Kika you’re comparing psychology and behaviour to physical impossibilities.  WTF?

You two are bringing down the average IQ of this country.

Toady says:

11:07pm | 18/08/11

Hey Mitch, I know it doesn’t make for glamorous, rock-star type news, but a lot of housewives were saved when gun laws were changed.  It is so tiring to hear the same tripe being dished out about gun laws and how terrible of the government to take our guns off us.  Domestic homicide declined after gun laws were tightened, for one simple reason - in the heat of the moment, husbands didn’t have a gun at hand to shoot their wives (as happened to a poor lady in her Deer Park backyard 20-odd years ago - shot at the clothesline by her violent husband), and neighbours weren’t able to grab the shottie and blow the next door neighbours head off after arguing over the fence.  There are lots of other reasons tougher gun laws were needed, and if you had any involvement in the enforcement of the laws you would know that the vast majority of gun owners never actually had their guns stored legally (usually under the bed, in the wardrobe, behind the laundry door, etc), which meant that lots of guns were stolen in burglaries (many never reported because gun owners knew they were not complying with gun storage laws).  Before you start spouting about gun massacres, you should do some research on firearms crime before the laws were tightened and the change in statistics afterwards.  Think Milperra massacre, Hoddle Street and Queen Street massacres, Port Arthur massacre.  List the massacres in Australia after those.  If you don’t do that, you risk being labelled pig ignorant, but we already know by your comments that you are the main contributor to the fall in the average IQ of this country.

engineer says:

08:07am | 19/08/11

Mitch: And how many did we have before ? The FACT is firearm misuse hasn’t decreased in Australia. The best estimates I saw prior to teh gun buyback suggested about 30 million guns in Australia. We reduced that by about a million, big deal. The only real reduction was in legally registered guns held by people who at least initially intended to do the right thing. The FACT is you can buy a throwaway on any street corner on teh gold coast or the western suburbs of sydney and probably a lot of other places.

Of course if I wanted to committ a mass murder I woudn’t use a gun. I’d pinch a 4b and run it down the queen street mall at lunchtime. I could kill more people than the porty arthur incident, main a heap in the process and probably ditch the “weapon” before the police knew what was happening. But I guess guns are dangerous because yuppies like you haven’t spent your lives around them (linda like “dangerous” dog breeds) while cars, that kill 1200 australians every year, are just fine.

As for charging them with murder, I didn’t choose that word lightly. Given the hopeless state of sentencing in Australia you need to make it the most serious charge in order to provide a deterent. The dog was not the problem in this case. A responsible person can keep a pit bull or any other breed and have no unhappy outcome. The problem here is the owner. He, and I’m sure it’s a bloke, MURDERED that little girl as surely as if he’d stuck a knife in her.

Kika says:

08:48am | 19/08/11

HA! I am bringing down the IQ of the country? Well what does that say for my sister who has done 8 years of study in a university, not some bl&&dy; Tafe or whatever so these quacks out there can tell people about ‘behaviour’ on these sorts of animals and sees first hand the result of the insane and ignorant breeding and arrogance of the owners of these animals.

I suppose biological sciences and in particular genetics was not your forte?

Michael says:

09:24am | 19/08/11

Kika your emotional over reaction is similar to the ones seen after a shark attack, people hysterical and calling for mass killings of evil sharks.

You know sharks have been naturally bred to kill everything it can gets it’s jaws on, same as a crocodile…same as people, we kill more of everything than anything else.

Calm down, have a milo or something and be reasonable, oh and your sister’s beliefs about things are fine for her and you to believe in but thankfully our society doesn’t just run off and implement the first kneejerk solution to situations like this, with the exception of the live export ban of course.

TomZ says:

11:11am | 19/08/11

To all these people telling kika to “calm down”, “have a Milo”, it is NOT YOUR CHILD THAT WAS KILLED.

Read the account where a neighbour said “I even pat the dog sometimes. He looks not such a bad dog to me.”

Quite frankly, the apologists for these dogs disgust me. You boof-heads are the greatest case I have ever seen of “I’m allright Jack, blow you”. If you cannot shed a tear for a little four year old child attacked in her own home, you need counselling.

Michael says:

12:45pm | 19/08/11

Nor your child or Kika’s child TomZ, keep reading to find the bias in these opinions, the bias is also justified in similar ways to people that justify racial villification.,

Kika had a bad experience with a pitbull cross once and wants them all destroyed.
(person) had a bad experience with a ( insert race here) and now wants them all…

You see how frightened people become exactly what they are so afraid of?

TomZ says:

03:12pm | 19/08/11

Michael,
Kika is not a racist. Don’t try to play the card. It has nothing to do with the article.

Michael says:

08:46pm | 19/08/11

I was not saying Kika is racist, it was an example. The point was perfectly clear.

Elizabeth says:

08:17pm | 21/08/11

The point Kika is making is that dogs have been specifically bred for certain tasks and sometimes it is surprising how focused that breeding is.  As an example when we needed a kelpie the breeder wanted to know what we wanted, a yard dog, all rounder (paddock or yard) or a dog for the truck.  The seller was offering different pups from different parents for different jobs.  The dog we chose went on to be an outstanding worker. His knowledge was bred into him and instinctual he knew about working sheep, was an excellent all rounder, didnt need training and worked efficiently from about 12months of age.  I have a jack russell terrier and have been told that they are terrribly difficult to have complete control of because they have been bred to be independent thinkers.  He proves this all the time.  I love him dearly but there was a reason he was at the RSPCA. He is very good at escaping his yard.

John the Zombie says:

02:29pm | 18/08/11

Let me expand this, I still will not trust a Sheperd on its own in the street. All dogs must be looked after properly and when your not home fenced correctly.Yes they are good and loving creatures but also do not forget there true nature.

Matt says:

02:44pm | 18/08/11

I wouldn’t trust my Beagles alone on the street (or off-lead for that matter). But that’s what makes a responsible dog owner.

Bilby says:

02:58pm | 18/08/11

Good expansion. I love shepherds too, trust mine around my kids to the nth degree, but I wouldn’t trust I didn’t know.

Pete says:

03:57pm | 18/08/11

I got cornered by 2 Sheperds & their Pup while delivering papers one day when I was a kid. I was held there for between 30minutes and eternity while these animals snarled and barked at me and noone came out of their house to see what was going on.
Scariest moment of my life. Thank God I had my BMX in front of me.

Jess says:

11:55am | 19/08/11

To Pete
If it had been Pitbulls you probably would be dead not just scared.
A lot has do do with the owner-nuture but you cant discount nature.
Most dogs are bred to protect or guard, Pitbulls were bred to kill
They have the pyschology and physiology of a killer. No doubt there are gentle harmless ones out there but would you really trust them 100%

Fromage67 says:

03:59pm | 19/08/11

I have a german sheperd, alaskan malemuke, kelpie, bull mastiff cross. He is the biggest softest coward in the world BUT I would not trust him or any dog alone with kids.
The owners of dogs that attack people should be charged, manslaughter in this case, assault etc in lesser. Don’t blame individual dogs for the morons that own them.

Aaron says:

02:53pm | 18/08/11

That is despicable! Absolutely awful, aren’t there animal cruelty laws against that kind of thing?

Kendaa says:

03:20pm | 18/08/11

@AdamC - no they are NOT designed to fight.  Witness all the pit bulls who refuse to fight who end up as bait dogs for practice for the ones who are forced to fight:  http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/articles/baitdog.html
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/02/14/national/main20031918.shtml

I’m so very tired of people generalising out of ignorance.  People, PLEASE do some research.  You couldn’t be more wrong about these dogs.  There seem to be a never ending stream of headlines about pit bulls attacking people/children/whoever, and in the end, it often turns out to be either it wasn’t a pit bull at all, just a sensationalist beat up by the media, or the dog wasn’t attacking anyone in the first place (although obviously in the case that has prompted this, that did happen, sadly).

egg says:

03:33pm | 18/08/11

“Savage dogs, however, require no encouragement from their owners to wreak havoc.”

yeah, they do, actually. dogs aren’t born killers, they’re made that way by neglectful, abusive and/or selfish owners who teach them to fight for profit or their own amusement. stop blaming the victim.

Kika says:

04:57pm | 18/08/11

Oh grow a brain Kendaa. THEY WERE BRED FOR KILLING. Don’t you know how to read a book? Try Wikipedia. Wiki up those breeds and tell me what they were bred for?

Why are they called a Pit Bull? Why is it a Staffy Bull terrier?

You will find BULL and BEAR BAITING.

Kika says:

05:01pm | 18/08/11

Egg - yes they are. Ask a vet. My sister has lots of lovely clients who purposefully breed aggressive dogs together with no consideration for the temperament for the pups. Even when they are advised not to, they don’t care.

James1 says:

05:05pm | 18/08/11

In my experience, the class of person who feels it desirable to own an animal such as a pitbull is usually from the class of person who beats their dog, making them savage, does not really care if the fence on their government house is broken, and certainly can’t afford to fix it on what Centrelink pays.

I agree with Adam on this.

Kendaa says:

05:37pm | 18/08/11

@Kika, in like salute, you’re a jackass.  Don’t run around hysterically shrieking at people for daring to have an opinion that differs to you.  DO SOME RESEARCH YOU MORON.  They were NOT bred to bring down bulls - and just where you got THAT furphy except out of your addled brain will forever remain a mystery.  How about this?  Instead of attacking people on here who DO know what they’re talking about, how about you go off and come back when you’ve done some solid research?  Sounds like a plan to me.

Kendaa says:

05:41pm | 18/08/11

And for another thing Kika, Wikipedia?  You have GOT to be joking - yeah, let’s use that as a point of academic reference, because, you know, it’s always so accurate.  Not.

Benevolent Rapscallion says:

05:57pm | 18/08/11

@ Kika - You’re the one who needs to grow a brain. Being aggressive towards a bull does not automatically mean that the same dog will be aggressive towards humans or other animals. There are actually many dogs that if allowed, will be aggressive towards other dogs, often due to previous bad experiences with other dogs. Yet they are extremely friendly towards humans. Your generalisation has no basis in fact.

Kika says:

08:43am | 19/08/11

Kendaa - they were. All mastiff related dogs were bred to bring down bears and bulls.  Why don’t YOU do some bloody research in a book and not listen to your fellow bogan idiots about where these dogs came from.

I suppose you don’t believe humans are a result of pedigree breeding either.

Makes sense.

Kendaa says:

10:48am | 19/08/11

@Kika - “I suppose you don’t believe humans are a result of pedigree breeding either.”  Well, in your case I’d make an exception

Kika says:

11:40am | 19/08/11

Kendaa -  Great comeback! Yeah you are right. I dropped out of the sky just like your pitbulls. We have no pedigree, no DNA and no psychological or physiological characteristics.

Kendaa says:

12:03pm | 19/08/11

So glad we’re on the same page Kika :D

libertarian vegetarian says:

02:01pm | 19/08/11

@kika - a pitt bull TERRIOR is not a mastiff. Its a terrior. Boxers, Bull Mastiffs and Baer Boel are all descended from dogs used for bear and bull baiting, yet they don’t have the bad rep of Pittbulls.
Most likely because they are bigger and stronger and the kind of weak as piss human trash that needs have a ‘tough’ dog is too much of a coward to get one that weighs 30+kg.
@ adamc - “I don’t understand how we can have such insanely prohibitionist firearms laws in this counrty and not even have sensible requirements for owning savage, dangerous animals.”  Yes, so why aren’t pet owners licenced? Why can’t people pass a knowledge and aptitude test before acquiring an animal? And all companion animals should be desexed by LAW unless they are registered for breeding by a breeder who has accquired a (breed specific)  breeders licence requiring criminal checks, procedures about placing animals and good knowledge of the breed incluing temperament, training and any health problems the breed is prone to.
Aggressive dogs are generally abused dogs, frightened dogs or indulged dogs. They can’t stand up for themselves and choose who they live with, so it is one of the reasonable functions of government to ensure theat animals are protected thus protecting society from poorly treated aniamls who may become a menace.

Jade says:

02:45pm | 18/08/11

So are we going to remove all dogs and cats… since they are all natural born killers Dale?

Dale says:

02:57pm | 18/08/11

Jade how many tom cats or Labs have mauled people to death lately? I personally have not heard of a case. I am sure somewhere in the world there is a one off. However this is nowhere near the extreme of the constant stories of this particular violent breed killing people. There is too much of a trend for this to be down to the owner. There are certain animals that are beyond being socialised. These animals are best left in the wild or taken out of existence.

So I take it you think it would be a great idea to register lions and tigers as pets and leave their behaviour up to the owners? They are just cats after all.

KH says:

03:02pm | 18/08/11

jade.  When was the last time a pet cat or chihuahua walked into someones house and killed one of their children?  Seriously…..........

L. says:

03:24pm | 18/08/11

“Jade how many tom cats or Labs have mauled people to death lately?”

Well, how many Pitbulls have..??

But you want to destroy them all becuase they have the potential to, just like all dogs.

Jade says:

03:25pm | 18/08/11

That’s irrelevant now isn’t it Dale. They were all created to kill… so lets just irradiate the world of them all shall we?

Ando says:

03:33pm | 18/08/11

“Any dog, treated harshly or trained to attack, may bite a person. Any dog can be turned into a dangerous dog. The owner or handler most often is responsible for making a dog into something dangerous.
  An irresponsible owner or dog handler might create a situation that places another person in danger by a dog, without the dog itself being dangerous, as in the case of the Pomeranian (2 kilos) that killed an infant
  Any individual dog may be a good, loving pet, even though its breed is considered to be potentially dangerous. A responsible owner can win the love and respect of a dog, no matter its breed. One cannot look at an individual dog, recognize its breed, and then state whether or not it is going to attack. 
I don’t think pit bulls are necessarily more aggressive but they will do more damage.  Combine this with the fact that most pit bull owners are wankers and it becomes an issue. Maybe compulsory muzzling would solve the problem.
The only reason I have an issue with the ban is that the only pit bull I’ve had any long term contact with was an amazing , friendly dog.

Jade says:

03:41pm | 18/08/11

* eradicate.. not irradiate! haha

Dale says:

03:47pm | 18/08/11

Jade how is it irrelevant. You don’t keep natural born killers as pets.

L how many pitbulls have? In the last decade at least 50. Not to mention other attacks which result in grevious bodily harm. And no I don’t want to destroy them because they have the potential to kill but because they actually do.

HappyCynic says:

04:02pm | 18/08/11

How many kids have died by being mauled by a dog?  If the 0.002% figure quoted above is accurate it seems the risk is acceptable, maybe not to the parents involved but certainly not a great enough risk to mandate wiping an entire breed out.  I mean does the death of one or two kids at the hands of one or two dogs really justify the death of thousands of innocent animals?  Why are a couple of humans worth more?

I’m not a pitbull fan, I prefer my dogs big, strong and intelligent, not small, bulky and toothy, but while I think they’re an ugly breed I’d never advocate the destruction of any innocent animal simply because of a few bad eggs.

That said, pitbull owners, and indeed every dog owner should definitely be held accountable for their animal’s actions, it’s not enough that a dog who attacks someone gets put down, the owner is responsible for training the dog, if they’ve not done this adequately then they should be just as culpable as the dog.

Jade says:

04:03pm | 18/08/11

I haven’t been able to find any solid statistics for Australia on the net relating to the number of dog attacks by breeds. How many attacks for other breeds of dog haven’t been reported? it is rather bias in my opinion as it is currently the trend to have a vendetta against pitties.

And out of the ones that I did, cattle dogs were at the top of the list anyway.

Meg says:

10:43am | 19/08/11

Dale…. you do realise this would be the FIRST killing by a Pitbull in over two decades…? IF you do any research on this subject… you would be aware of this. Second all… there have been MANY dog behaviourlists and trainers who have given proof, facts etc. that dogs DO not attack without a reason. They WILL show signs they will attack, most of the time humans DO not recognise them or refuse to recognise them. If people want to talk about genetics if you look into the dogs history you will find these dogs were bred to be kind to humans, loving and loyal, infact alot of them are even KILLED in torturess manors when they are tested by dogmen because they refuse to fight other dogs…. PLEASE do some research before making such silly comments… you only prove that ignorance breeds fear. Oh also… Ted Rosevelt, Jessica Alba, Jessica Biel, Brad Pitt, Rachel Bilson, Alicia Silverstone-just to name a few… all Neanderthals huh?

TomZ says:

11:25am | 19/08/11

Jade, if stupidity was a crime you would have been put down years ago.
SMALL DOGS = SMALL DAMAGE.
BIG DOGS = BIG DAMAGE.

Jade says:

12:01pm | 19/08/11

Oh wow Tom, thanks for clearing that one up for me… I seriously would never have guessed… I am also pretty sure that crimes in Australia aren’t punishable with being “put down”

Tom says:

04:39pm | 19/08/11

Jade, glad you liked that one.
How about one for the owners, BIG DOG = SMALL PENIS?

I made mistakes too says:

08:03pm | 22/08/11

Dale: as a child, I owned a Labrador. We failed to train it well or take care of it properly and it grew up aggressive and restless. Any dog can hurt a person. Small dogs display the same aggression that larger or stronger dogs involved in cases like this. The difference is that they are weaker and cuter so owners often dismiss it as “just a bit of attitude”.

adam says:

02:35pm | 18/08/11

Thanks Elphaba sense seldom enters these debates

gravy says:

02:37pm | 18/08/11

I think if people actually reported ALL dog attacks you will find that smaller toy breeds are responsible for the vast majority of dog attacks, but just because they are small and cute and cuddly and honestly can’t do a lot of damage cept to say an infant, people just don’t give 2 hoots… I recently saw an episode of Bondi vet where there was a feral smaller dog which BIT the vet, and they laughed it off like oooh how cute… disgraceful!!

It is this mentality that is the problem, if these dogs were reported and these irresponsible idiots jailed etc, then they wouldn’t have the CHANCE to go out, buy a pitt bull/rotty which then goes out and KILL somebody simply because it is a larger dog and harder to physically control.

Also if people knew that if their dog attacked anybody/anything that they would themselves be thrown in jail, i think a lot more people would be taking a lot better care and be taking a lot more responsibility for the education and well being of their animals. And idiots who were unable to control/educate their dogs would give them up pretty fast in the fear that their dog is going to land them in jail.

Lets actually do something to curb dog attacks by targeting the actual source of the attacks! IRRESPONSIBLE OWNERS WHO DON’T CARE ABOUT ANYONE BUT THEMSELVES!

Rod says:

02:48pm | 18/08/11

Elphaba, the only point you have successfully managed to make is that you are a moron. As for the stats, scroll to the end of this story and check out the infographic - it details dangerous dogs in Victoria and the number of attacks. There are hundreds and hundreds of attacks - and you’ll never guess what is overwhelmingly the most popular breed of dog in these stats. http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/more-news/child-killed-in-dog-attack-at-st-albans/story-fn7x8me2-1226116993730

John the Zombie says:

02:49pm | 18/08/11

As noted it is the owners job to look after and ensure that dogs do not attack by taking the correct action. As I stated before I am a big fan of Sheperds but remember this is a cross breed that was bred by mixing breeds and one of the breeds is wolf. I doubt many ppl know this.

Elphaba says:

02:49pm | 18/08/11

Thanks gravy, well said.  I’ve seen some absolutely vicious Maltese terriers and chihuahuas.  My friend owns 2 enormous German shepards, and the damn things would lick a burgler to death, they’re so friendly.

It is the person, not the dog.  This kind of hystrionics is exactly what he was bitching about on Wednesday with the anti-carbon tax mob.  Way to go, jackass.

Elphaba says:

02:56pm | 18/08/11

@Rod - thanks for the graphic.  This story is now far more comprehensive than what was first posted this morning.

I still feel that Ant’s sentiments are ridiculous though.

You have yourself an awesome day.

Kate says:

04:11pm | 18/08/11

@gravy, very true. I’ve been attacked by a dog - a poodle. It was not cute, it was painful, but I wouldn’t report it as a dog attack. Absolutely psycho dog though.

n_dude says:

04:30pm | 18/08/11

@Gravy - point taken, but ho many of these smaller breeds actually kill when they do go feral. Unforauntely Pit Bulls have the capacity to kill and the outcomes are fatal. Nevertheless, I agree it is the owners that need to feel the brunt of the law and not the animals. I also think that councils should respond to complaints by residents about vicious dogs and come down hard on owners.

Anubis says:

04:37pm | 18/08/11

@ Elphaba - “Those freakin’ cows are dangerous!” especially if you give them guns

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQMbXvn2RNI

Steve Putnam says:

05:35pm | 18/08/11

Pit bulls are bred to fight to the death fullstop. Like greyhounds they shouldn’t be allowed in public un-muzzled. I’m sick of hearing about how they’re really only misunderstood. I’ve seen dogs of this particular breed turn from being relatively placid to snarling un-governable demons on many occasions. They cause more dog fights than all other breeds combined.
A friend once described how he had to bash one unconscious with a piece of hard wood in an unsuccessful attempt to save his own dogs life. He had been walking it on a leash in a public park when this thing came from nowhere and leapt on it from behind.
I myself have been bailed up by Shepherds, Dobermans, a Rotweiler and a Pitbull and there is a difference. If I hadn’t been carrying a three iron I think it would have gone me; in the earlier instances I remained still and the dogs eventually desisted.
Anyone who thinks Pitbulls are just like any other dog just hasn’t seen the bad side of one.

Elphaba says:

06:37pm | 18/08/11

Anubis, yes!  Cow don’t kill people, guns kill people!

bananabender says:

08:52pm | 20/08/11

Farmers are very aware that cattle are potentially very dangerous. That is why they keep them behind barbed wire fences and don’t keep them as pets (except poddy calves).

There is an old saying “the quiet bull is the one that will kill you”.

gravy says:

02:49pm | 18/08/11

http://www.gtp.com.au/kidsafeqld/inewsfiles/inews.2773.1.pd
top offender in QLD, blue heelers

http://www.mja.com.au/public/issues/aug4/thompson/thompson.html#suba1
and in this study, german shepherds

Mike says:

03:59pm | 18/08/11

Thanks Gravy,

I guess actual research and knowledge on a subject are a bit too difficult for ‘Journalists’ these days.

Melissza says:

08:47pm | 19/08/11

@gravy: I can’t get the first link open, but looking at the second I can see that your grasp of quantitative analysis is somewhat limited.
In any study like this, it is important to compare attack rates to a baseline - in this case how many of each breed is present in society. If you do this, you will see that for three years in the early 1990s in one hospital in Adelaide, the most common attack was from German Shepherd, BUT weighted against ownership, the Dobermans had the worst record.
Think about it like this: if we have a population of 1000 dog owners and 999 of them own Maltese Terriers and the other person owns a Pitbull, which dog breed do you think will commit the most attacks? Probably the Maltese, because there are a lot of them. It’s not really fair to the little white fluffballs though, is it?

Tegenpitjes says:

04:46am | 21/08/11

http://www.scribd.com/doc/61318043/Relative-Risk-by-Dog-Breed-in-NSW-Australia

LoveFest says:

05:56pm | 18/08/11

In that case we can breed them and sell them to the Chinese like our other commodities

Becka says:

10:23pm | 18/08/11

Matt, a child died!!!!!  I am a animal lover I have two dogs and a cat in a major city, don’t agree with killing animals as a norm, but A CHILD DIED again by a cross pit bull they were bred to kill!  I do believe it is the owners but we cant do anything about them, but we can the breed, we are talking about a child’s life, that is now gone….

Dan says:

12:29pm | 19/08/11

Becka, a teenager died after being kicked by a COW! 

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/breaking-news/teen-dies-after-being-kicked-in-head-by-cow/story-fn3dxity-1226117768454

I don’t see anyone going around hysterically screaming for all cows to be slaughtered as a menace to society.  Or is it because a teenager isn’t as cute as a four-year-old?

I think we can ALL accept that what happened was tragic, but just because something tragic happened a knee-jerk reaction is not warrented.

Little Kev says:

10:48pm | 20/08/11

Where has this ridiculous idea come from that dogs have become so civilised it takes human intervention to make them savage?  That even aggressive fighting dogs are innocent little lambs until people are mean to them?  Are you out of your mind?

I for one decided a long time ago to take matters into my own hands.  When I go for a walk I always take my phone, a heavy stick and a piece of lead pipe.  No dog that attacks me will get a second chance to attack anyone else.

Sick of the BS says:

11:49pm | 18/08/11

You posted this exact post word for word on the herald scum knackers and it holds just as much weight here as there….ie fuck all squared!!! Pull yer head out of your arse and actually try and associate with a few responsible owners of the breed! You’ll quickly learn they can be just as friendly as any other breed of dog. If you still disagree get in touch with Ceaser Milan (the dog whisperer) he has ex “pit fighting” pit bulls that are extremely well behaved! Game,set,match!!

AFR says:

02:49pm | 18/08/11

I used to like dogs, until I moved into a neighbourhood where there are so many of them. They just don’t shut up - all frigging night…....

Mr Woofy says:

03:16pm | 18/08/11

Pitbulls should all be killed. Dogs that bark should all be killed. It’s not fair to encroach on others with this rudeness.

Pete of Canberra says:

03:17pm | 18/08/11

What a sad sorry person you must be.  I’ve had dogs since the day I was born.  All purebred and trained.  No biting, no barking at night and a now my kids have dogs.
You must hate your life.

gravy says:

04:01pm | 18/08/11

Dogs barking non stop is usually due to a complete lack of care and exercise/stimulation by their useless owners who think owning a dog consists of locking it in the house/backyard and ignoring it except for food and water. When dogs are properly exercised and looked after they will not spend all day barking. This is a fact.

It is pretty easy to teach a dog to not bark, with my current dog which is a rescue that used to bark NON STOP (first time we met he barked aggressively at me for 15mins straight with no breaks while his foster parents cooed at him ohh stop stop stop; bloody useless) within ONE WEEK of owning that dog it is silent and to this day does NOT bark or act aggressively toward ANYTHING, even when people knock on the door, or if he hears other dogs barking etc, because it was TAUGHT correctly and exercised daily.

I would recommend you contact your local council about the irresponsible owners and their barking dogs, and the council will send them a notice to fix the problem or have the dog removed. Problem solved.

Cat says:

02:47pm | 18/08/11

yes, there are. And the “kind of people” who own pitbulls includes renouned dog trainer Ceasar Millan who loves them and promotes them as great family pets. Also Jon Stewart of “The Daily Show with Jon Stewart owns two pit bulls: Shamsky & Monkey.
Ken Howard, award-winning actor from Crossing Jordon, was saved by his pit bull Shadow during a medical crisis.
Movie star Alicia Silverstone owns a rescued pit bull named Samson.
Adam Brody gave girlfriend and O.C. co-star Rachel Bilson a pit bull named Penny Lane as a birthday gift.
Oscar winner Jamie Foxx, TV Personality Rachael Ray and Pittsburgh Steelers Linebacker Joey Porter all own two pit bulls!
Jessica Biel has a pit bull named Tina, and Jessica Alba owns a pit bull puppy.
President Theodore Roosevelt, President Woodrow Wilson, singer Kevin Federline, radio personality Ira Glass, actor Fred Astaire, General George Patton, actor Michael J. Fox, actor Jan Michael Vincent, actor Jack Dempsy, Thomas Edison, singer Madonna, movie star Brad Pitt, actress Bernadette Peters, comedian Sinbad, actress Linda Blair, actor Humphrey Bogart, musician Usher, comedian Mel Brooks, actress Ann Bancroft, singer Pink, actress Eliza Dushku and actress Kelli Williams are just a few other celebrities who own or have owned a pit bull.

Mork says:

02:53pm | 18/08/11

I completely agree, and I’d like to see custodial sentences for the owners of these savage killing machines.

Anna C says:

03:28pm | 18/08/11

Cat, are the celebrities you name as Pit bull owners supposed to act as some inging endorsement for the breed. Because to me all it does is proves that celebrities are even bigger idiots than I originally thought.

Cat says:

03:49pm | 18/08/11

and all your response,  shows me, Anna,  is that people who prefer to be ignorant about the fact that pitties can be fantastic pets don’t much care what anyone who knows better than them has to say. How about the fact that the RSPCA doesn’t endorse breed specific legistlation and changed it’s national policies to reflect that fact? How about the pitties who are assistance dogs and therapy dogs? What occupation would most demonstrate to you that intelligent people can and do own pitties, because you’ll find there are thousands of people from all walks of life who know better than you.

MadKat of Melbourne says:

08:31pm | 18/08/11

But Cat you just admitted that there are special regulations relating to the ownership of a Pit Bull - why - is it because they are a more dangerous than other breeds of dog ????

MadKat of Melbourne says:

10:30pm | 18/08/11

And Cat - celebrities ??? - well everything’s ok then - because if a celebrity is doing something then its got to be ok because they are the brain’s trust of society - how dumb - obviously you’re from that section of society that reads New Idea and worships celebrities and all that they do -

Cat says:

02:49pm | 19/08/11

“MadKat” the fact that there are restrictions does not mean I think they are based on a valid possition, merely that they are in place, not sure why you would think that acknowledging they are there means anything more? re: celebrities see my previous response to Anna - any occupation you care to think of has people who own a pitty and love them. People like you fail to learn from history - demonising a breed doesn’t make anyone safer - it didn’t make a difference when they demonised dobermans or german shepherds or rotties and it does nothing now because the problem is not a particular breed, but individual dogs and owners… EVERY country who have introduced breed bans have found it didn’t make a difference so why stupidly continue with a line of thinking which has been proven false and doesn’t fix anything?

Hamish says:

02:50pm | 18/08/11

Cat I think you will find a car analogy is life and death. Why should dogs be different. If you are behind the wheel of a car and death results you are legally liable. An attack is the punishment through a average term of imprisonment of 5 years for culpable driving. No one can drive dangerous vechiles through the streets. See any army tanks down the freeway this morning?

Yet even an accident involving a barina for example will result in a term of imprisonment for the driver, effectively a death sentence due to the bashings, attacks and rapes in the prison system which will result in death instantly or through HIV, hepatitis etc some years later. Yet dog owners can own a proven dangerous breed that is trained and bred to kill and get off scott free. How is that fair?

Cat says:

03:34pm | 18/08/11

behind the wheel of a car you are legally responsible for any mistake you make. We blame the driver not the car or the type of car. When it comes to dogs the type/breed has just as much determination of how likely an accident or death is as the type of car involved in an accident. This is why it makes no sense to ban a certain type of dog, because it has been shown again and again that saying they(pitties) are all dangerous is false. I have not said that there should be no rules around dogs that ARE dangerous, merely said that making rules that say a dog is dangerous purely because of breed is ridiculous. By all means let us keep those rules which apply to dogs which have been deemed dangerous due to their behaviour, but let us not assume danger where there is none. As I pointed out, the original reason for breed development plays no part in the debate, and if you have someone who wants to train a dog to be vicious, killing all dogs of a specific breed does NOTHING to stop them - hence BSL does not protect the community.

Nick says:

03:07pm | 18/08/11

it all comes down to ignorance, both of the owner of the dog and people like Anthony Sharwood who think that its’ the dog and not the person who didn’t train it, i had a pitbull and it was the most friendly dog i have ever had around others. This is Australia tho and people love to put blame on something then try to ban it without knowing anything on the topic other then what they read in the media

adam says:

02:53pm | 18/08/11

No we cannot all agree on that. Particularly when “etc” is added. Cats are unpredicatable, fox terriers are unpredictable everything can be unpredictable. Where would the ban end?

Paradoxy says:

04:14pm | 18/08/11

Yes, but they don’t intentionally prowl humans.

timmy says:

04:41pm | 18/08/11

Why would anyone be a lover of this breed… the mind boggles.

Dale says:

03:00pm | 18/08/11

If you seriously think in the last decade there have been more deaths in Australia from Labradors and/or Dalmations than from pit bulls you are seriously deluded.

adam says:

03:13pm | 18/08/11

@ Dale, she said most attacks NOT deaths. Do please read before responding

bella starkey says:

03:20pm | 18/08/11

Pitbull lovers love to trot out stats about “attacks” from family pets v. dangerous breeds.

These stats include anything from a nip to a proper mauling. the certainly don’t take into account severity of attacks, nor the proportion of attacks in relation to total breed population.

American Pitbuill Terriers and other similar dogs were bred specifically for fighting. Originally for fighting bears and bulls.

Hugo says:

03:25pm | 18/08/11

Dalmatians, Labs and Kelpie’s all have higher numbers of biting human cases than Pit Bulls…….that would be due to the large number of them compared to Pit Bulls. Lies, damn lies and statistics is the classic quote here.

Also lets not forget when a Dalmatian, Lab or Kelpie bites – they don’t do so with the force of a Pit Bull. Most Kelpie bites won’t break the skin. The Pit’s bite is far more likely to cause serious injury.

marley says:

03:28pm | 18/08/11

@Dale - possibly not, but in the US at least they’re head and shoulders above pit bulls in number of bites.

Dale says:

03:53pm | 18/08/11

Bites maybe. How about deaths? I agree I have been bitten more by Labs than pit bulls. Labs however have soft malleable teeth that don’t puncture without sevre effort and the bites were a mistake from playing with them, feeding them or a tug of wall game. In contrast I have been bitten once by a pitbull that had to be restrained from attacking me further and attacked by a pit bull in full attack mode. Fortunatly I was able to get in my car before being bitten. Both these cases were completely unprovoked.

Labs in my experience DO NOT ATTACK.. Bites are misakes from being too vigourous and not repeated.  Pit bulls DO ATTACK WITHOUT PROVOCATION. They are dangerous, wild and are not suitable for society. Unless people think all animals can be domesticated. Lets start keeping pet wolves, tigers and lions shall we?

DaisyDuke says:

04:07pm | 18/08/11

Bit of perspective with regards to severity of attacks:
Pitbulls bite with approx 2000 pounds per square inch of force
Police trained German shepherds bite with about 400

egg says:

04:41pm | 18/08/11

@dale, wow, your personal experience speaks for so much… a dog bit you, and another dog bit you, and now you’re qualified to condemn an entire breed! god, i wish people like you were in charge, you’d make such sound, wise decisions.

Benevolent Rapscallion says:

06:05pm | 18/08/11

Sorry Dale, you are very wrong. Labradors do attack. When I was 4 years old I was bitten on the face by one. I got 3 puncture wounds. I was standing very still and quiet, too close while it was eating and there was no history of me annoying or tormenting the dog.

Daniel D says:

09:49pm | 18/08/11

Daisy Duke, really.

Tests that have been done comparing the bite pressure of several
breeds showed pressure PSI (per square inch) to be considerably lower
than some wild estimates that have been made. Testing has shown that
the domestic dog averages about 320 lbs of pressure per square inch. 
Recently Dr. Brady Barr of National Geographic conducted a comparative
test between a Pit Bull, a Rottweiler, and a German Shepherd. The Pit
Bull had the LOWEST PSI OF THE THREE.

The highest pressure recorded from the Pit Bull was 235 lbs PSI.  The
highest from the GSD was 238, and the highest from the Rott was 328. 
Dr. Barr states that as far as he knows, the PSI tested in the Rott is the
highest on record for any domestic canine.

Dale says:

05:35pm | 19/08/11

Egg bloody oath things would be better with me in charge. There would be no namby pamby pussy footing around or motherhood statements. A problem exists and quick action is needed. Having 3 year olds mauled to death is totally unacceptable and must never happen again. This happened because a vile breed esacaped its enclosure and killed someone.

Yep my personal experience and those of others attacked including fatally does speak for a hell of a lot more more than the bullshit ecclectic theories and crap about pit bulls been no more dangerous than labs being sprouted here. Kent’s comment above is correct. Send the bloody SAS in and get rid of the dangers to society. Starting with pit bulls.

Amelia says:

02:55pm | 18/08/11

“They also make great family pets when socialised and trained correctly.”

Yes. Yes. Yes.

It’s not the breed, it’s the owner.

Jane says:

12:53pm | 19/08/11

I own a PutBull, I dont watch UFC, wear Ed Hardy, or drink Mother.

I have 2 children who climb all over her, she is a beautifully behanved dog, never shown any anger, I can remove her food, or interrupt her eating, and she will just sit and look at me.

It’s the way the owner brings up the dog, not the breed.

I’ve been attached by more tiny yappy dogs then larger dogs.

Kent says:

03:11pm | 18/08/11

Pit Bulls, Bull Mastiffs various breeds of terrier. Very difficult to identify specific breeds. Thus shoot them all. They are all dangerous and vicious and have no place being domesticated. The whole industry needs a total clean up.

gravy says:

03:24pm | 18/08/11

I noticed a lot of people like to label any larger wide built dog a pitt bull; it also surprises me how many animal shelters and even vets even get the breeds of dogs these dogs terribly wrong.

I have seen a lot of boxers, bulldogs, staffys and ridgebacks incorrectly labeled as pitt bulls; and lets not even go near the different cross breeds that are around. It would not surprise me at all that some dog attack stats and news stories etc wrongly accuse the wrong breed just because they are misinformed.

Chris_D says:

08:00am | 19/08/11

@David, this is about as useful as playing “pick the sociopath out of the crowd”.  Whether you can pick him out or not doesn’t change his underlying mental state.

Jade says:

03:19pm | 18/08/11

*correction* they have been bred to kill other animals (such as dogs) not people.

Anna C says:

03:39pm | 18/08/11

So Jade, why then did the Pit bull kill the little girl if they are only bred to kill animals? What did it mistake her with a lamb chop or something?

Jade says:

03:55pm | 18/08/11

Anna C they don’t even know if it was a pit bull… they are assuming it is a cross breed.  You know as well as I do why it did what it did. 

Does it seem a little weird to you though that it just escaped its yard ran over to this particular house, mauled the kid than ran home?  We don’t know the full story… was this kid or had this kid terrorized this dog in some particular way in the past?

Animals don’t attack people without reason.

Kate says:

04:22pm | 18/08/11

Jade - don’t even go there. This was not a 5 year old child’s fault but the dogs and it’s owner! Perhaps was being overprotective of it’s territory and when the neighbours opened their front door to see their friend off it felt threatened and attacked. And maybe animals don’t attack without reason but an animals reasoning is based on instinct and not logic!

Kika says:

04:43pm | 18/08/11

Jade - Yes they do kill for no reason. They are bred to do that. They have genetic flaws in the amygdala which makes them aggressive.

Jade says:

05:18pm | 18/08/11

@ Kate “an animals reasoning is based on instinct and not logic” exactly.  what happened to the dog to make its instincts kick in and attack the kid? The dog isn’t to blame, it is just doing what comes naturally. Its either the owner, the kid/family or both.

Christine says:

05:19pm | 18/08/11

I had the same thought as Jade.  Has this dog been ill-treated?  Adults and children are guilty of tormenting dogs.  Why would the dog go to this group and attack?  Of course there’s a reason.  There’s nothing wrong with asking this. 

At the same time, I believe you should have to prove yourself the right, responsible person to own a large and powerful dog.  Special licence.

MadKat of Melbourne says:

08:13pm | 18/08/11

Jade - I can’t believe that you just blamed the attack and subsequent death on the child and not the dog - you are the most sick and disgusting person -

And animals do attack people for no reason -

But I just can’t get over the fact that you’ve blamed a poor little dead baby for the attack -

hawker says:

09:24pm | 18/08/11

@Jade

“The dog isn’t to blame, it is just doing what comes naturally”

I think you just made the author’s point for him. And your assertion that perhaps the child had provoked the dog and this somehow explains the behaviour is quite frankly appalling.

MadKat of Melbourne says:

10:13pm | 18/08/11

And Jade (I mean sicko) - Hawker is correct - you said “The dog isn’t to blame, it is just doing what comes naturally” - if its natural for this dog breed to kill a child then kill the dog breed -

Jade says:

07:47am | 19/08/11

Haha you people are seriously retarded! Pit Bull’s aren’t bred to attack/kill humans.  The only aggression they normally show is towards other dogs/animals - and if aggression is shown towards a human, it is in retaliation to something the human is doing to it. 

I suggest you guys do some research on the breed and its history instead of listening to the media hysteria surrounding them. and maybe even go and spend some time with one that has been trained and socialised properly, you may be surprised!

Kika says:

08:41am | 19/08/11

PITBULLSHT Jade. Yeah, maybe an adult. However I wouldn’t even trust my border collie poodle cross with a young child. How does a Pit Bull know the difference between a young child and a small animal??  What? Can you can teach a dog rationality to understand one species from another and to differentiate between them?

People like you are the reason why there are still attacks on children and old people as a result of having these monster dogs in the burbs.

Go talk to a Vet or an animal behaviour specialist and they can tell you the biological and physiological reasons why you should never trust a genetic fighting dog around a small child.

Lisa H. says:

10:07am | 19/08/11

Jade, are breeders *God*? How can breeders even state let alone guarantee that a relatively unintelligent animal is not ‘designed’ to attack a human?

Surely the underlying threat to humans is an important aspect of the desireability of the breed.

Elsewhere in these article responses, I have read posters say this dog is actually called a ‘nanny’ dog.

As this breed or cross dog seems unable to rescusitate, rescue from a pool or even pull a blanket over an infant, what is such a ‘nanny’ dog to do….apart from savagely attack strange humans entering the child’s space?

Security of home and possessions - and children - are constantly cited as advantages of this breed. Why? Because this breed poses a life threat to ‘outsiders’ - that is, other humans.

Pit bull varieties and crosses continue to attack until they themselves are near death (an apparently desireable feature of the breed).

They can and do attack humans Jade…regardless of any god-like intentions of breeders and cross breeders…you are reading the response to such an attack right now.

Jade says:

11:36am | 19/08/11

yada yada yada…. as I said, go and do some research.  I posted a link in my original post about a video called Off the Chain on youtube, it has a pretty good insight into the breed (for those to lazy to research them selves). 

They were called Nanny Dogs for a reason, they will defend their owner to the death if that is what it takes.  That is loyalty. My bitch can’t even get her nails clipped by a vet while I am in the room as it makes her unable to protect me as she feels she needs to. 

Clearly though you are happy to continue on your kill everything and anything that is dangerous to humans path though and no amount of truths will change that. 

I will continue to own this type of dog until the day I die.  The companionship and love they give and bring regardless of whether you have just punished them or not is amazing.  These dogs are people’s children, and most people value them as much.

Jade says:

11:56am | 19/08/11

Here is some breed information is layman’s terms… so if you can calm your hysterical ranting for 15 minutes you may just be a little bit more informed… oh and don’t forget to look at the pictures of the “killers” down the bottom, I think the one kissing the baby deer is rather cute myself.

http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/americanpitbull.htm

Nat says:

12:16pm | 19/08/11

@Phil you are obviously happy to remain ignorant and uneducated and we can only hope you never own an animal. I have been around Pit bulls and Bull Terriers my whole life and never come across a dangerous one. I have how ever been attacked by a Rottweiler and a Dalmation (Thanks Walt disney!) yet I do not think these breeds need to be terminated. It would be ignorant to say there are not dangeropus dogs out there, but it is usually the owner or enviroment they live in that affects them. Combine this with cross breeding and not being trained, ANY dog can be dangerous regardless of breed or size. It saddens me that humans think they can just kill everything they want if it pleases them, humans kill more humans and animals then anything else on the face of the planet. If your solution is to go around killing things just because you are too lazy to understand it then you are one of the most dangerous animals and maybe you should think about erradicating yourself.

Janine says:

03:42pm | 19/08/11

@Wickerman so you do not believe anyone should have a family pet? What are you a member of PETA or something.

averill says:

02:14am | 20/08/11

Greyhounds??? What on earth for? They are trained to kill small animals.

picky says:

04:06pm | 18/08/11

Applause, it would be nice if a lot less stupid typos etc were made in newspapers, both physical and online.

However, I can’t help saying that people who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw irRitating stones, especially not in caps int he first line…

fml says:

05:04pm | 18/08/11

Maybe we should make the dog go to an animal psychiatrist first.
Put a picture of kid infront of them, and if they say nom noms, put them down.

maus says:

03:47pm | 18/08/11

Bogans don’t keep sharks in their backyards. Yet.

fml says:

05:04pm | 18/08/11

I blame the dog.

Lisa H. says:

07:33pm | 18/08/11

Yeah, the shark example is one that crossed my mind as well.
I happen to think that families that lose their loved ones to sharks also have a right to ‘an eye’ as much as any violence victim.
The dog will undoubtedly be put to sleep.

Problem with dog attacks is that right up to the minute it mauls someone, it’s just a ‘family dog that wouldn’t hurt a fly’.
Dogs generally only get one chance to prove that sunny opinion wrong.

SD says:

09:01pm | 18/08/11

Vic, I really think your “shit hapens” response is pretty lame as is using domestication of an animal to compare it to shark attacks.

If I go for a swim I take the risk of shark attack. I go hiking on Spitsbergen, I take the risk of polar bears.

This poor kid didn’t choose to take a risk by hanging around it’s own house. The blame the owners, not the dog thing must be great comfort to the family, this owner chose a potentially dangerous breed and it killed. All the other family did was choose a place to live.

hawker says:

09:28pm | 18/08/11

You really don’t need someone to explain the difference to you, surely? That’s the dumbest analogy I ever heard

Emily says:

01:59am | 19/08/11

His name is Cesar, not Caesar. Caesar was a roman dictator, not a short mexican guy with a talent for rehabilitating dogs (and training people).

And what is your problem with Cesar Millan? Your statement of “oh please” is rather vague…

Fred says:

10:53am | 19/08/11

His dog whisper act is just that, an act. His ‘methods’ have been dispelled by every knowlegable dog behaviourist and vet out there. Do some research beyond Wikipedia. He is to dog trainers as John Edwards is to psychics.

Cesar, Caesar, whatever.

Emily says:

03:08pm | 19/08/11

What such methods? Positive reinforcement? Negative reinforcement? A calm yet assertive attitude? Do you do a lot of animal training? I don’t suppose you would understand how animals learn, because there are many studies that show the MOST EFFECTIVE way animals (not just dogs) is through a combination of positive and negative reinforcement.

Furthermore it’s common knowledge that if you are tense/angry/nervous, animals can pick up on this particular state of mind, and they can even end up mirroring it.

Do some research beyond wikipedia? I’m an animal science student, so wasn’t that very presumptive (and ignorant) of you?

And another thing, vet’s are usually idiots. Yes, they’re good for diagnosing physiological ailments, and for treating them. But barely any practising vets have anything to do with research nowadays. Don’t forget, what kind of person becomes a vet? Usually one that wants to help animals and has a very strong opinion on matters to do with animal welfare. As they should. However, even veterinary science is not free from the bias opinions of mankind.

For me, the proof is in how his (Cesar Millan) dogs behave. Time and time again, you will see relaxed and social animals, and you don’t need toe be a rocket scientist to see that (or a behavourist). And they stay that way. Regardless of where you’re getting your information, you can’t argue with his results. Have you ever actually read one of his books from cover to cover, or watched a season of his show? Perhaps you should do so, with an open mind. You’ll end up better for it.

SirGit says:

05:42pm | 18/08/11

ahh ok maybe we should also allow murder as more people are killed in wars - strawman argument

Sez says:

04:16pm | 18/08/11

Have you actually considered the fact that (presuming your statistics are correct) the reason for a higher amount of cattle dog attacks/bites has more to do with the fact that there are a large number of cattle dogs owned by people in the community? As a cattle dog owner, I can say that although my dog is completely timid with me, I would never ever trust him alone around children and I would never walk him off a lead.  This is because I am a responsible dog owner.  It is the irresponsible morons who are giving the rest of us a bad name.  Blame the owner, not the dog.  What a sad society we live in where we are faced with a complex and emotionally driven issue, and our first response is “Kill it”.  Shame on you, Anthony, for endorsing such a skewed and ignorant course of action.

podrida says:

06:28pm | 18/08/11

Jo, you are a silly little girl/bloke who loves a bit of drum beating to try and reduce the impact that this killer dog has had on the distraught parents of this poor little child. From 1928 to 1972 Shepherds were banned? I had one, (lovely dog ) , my Mum &Dad; had two, (lovely dogs),
and you really are living in La La Land. The police forces in several States had them, (they can be taught and controlled), but trained killers can not.
Should anyone care to defend the killing machine that is the subject of the story, the machine that ripped this poor little girl apart, then do so. It is always, as has been said, a wishful representation of the owner.
Look at them. Tattoos, hate on one hand, love, (?), on the other and a message of domination written across their forehead. Yep. I’ve seen these weak-hearted hopeful dominators trying to live their lives through the destructive abilities of their dog for a long time.
What a pity that they never had the courage to get into the ring instead of their dogs. Then the world would truly be a better place. But cowards who push other fighters forward don’t have that courage, do they.

Andrew says:

02:46am | 19/08/11

Jo, I think you need to learn the difference between biting and attacking. How many deaths have been attributed to cattle dogs. 187 dog attack deaths in the US since 2005, 102 of those by Pit Bulls or pit bull crosses.

Lisa H. says:

11:23pm | 18/08/11

These larger more ‘aggressive’ breed animals are more likely to be wandering because the owners are too ‘macho’ to have their dogs desexed.

Jade says:

03:46pm | 18/08/11

How can you sit there and watch two dogs fighting? I couldn’t think of anything more horrific.

Fred says:

03:47pm | 18/08/11

“I’ve witnessed numerous professional pit fights” - I thought it was illegal? Therefore, shouldn’t the Punch be tipping you off to the Police for concealing a crime?

Or are you another armchair expert that surfs the net too much?

Brad says:

03:53pm | 18/08/11

“I’ve witnessed numerous professional pit fights”

Disgusting.

bella starkey says:

04:10pm | 18/08/11

a) Dog fighting is one of the most repulsive things that people hace come up with. One of the main reasons i think pitbulls should be banned is because of dog fighting. I’ve seen video of dog fights, and the way dogs are treated by owners and breeders (like electrocuting an injured dog).

b) Dogs are stupid. You think a dog that has been trained to attack other dogs but not humans knows the that a toddler is the same thing as a grown adult. They don’t. That is why dogs will seemingly lose it with a child but not with an adult.

I won’t trust my parents labrador around small children nevermind a fighting dog.

Dog Lover and Trainer says:

04:59pm | 18/08/11

Because I’m a journalist. And unlike my unlearned colleague who wrote this opinion piece, I have attended illegal, undercover dog fights and reported on them. I have stills photos, videos and interviews on file. I have done an immense ammount of research on the history of dog fighting and fighting breeds, including pit bulls. I have owned bull terriers all my life - one of the sweetest breeds there is.

Armchair expert I am not. First-hand witness I am.

Not only am I a dog owner, lover and trainer (I also have a protection-trained german shepherd as a family pet), I’ve known many “real” (bloodline) pitbulls as pets, sporting dogs and combatants.

I do not condone dog fighting. Otherwise I would never have reported on it. But you have to know something about your subject to be able to work your way undercover. Unlike writing an opinion piece!

I’ve watched bloody fights that lasted more than an hour and not once did either dog turn on their handlers or the referee, even whilst injured. I know breeders who - you would be surprised - actually love their dogs and do not want them killed in the pit. They spend a lot of money on these dogs, and they are treated to the best veterinarian care they can afford.

I probably know more about this subject than anyone else posting here. I think I am qualified to state that the American Pit Bull Terrier is one of the finest breeds there is, and that many of the dogs being blamed for these attacksd are not, in fact, purebred pit bulls, but rather crosses, mixed-breeds and mongrels.

As usual, the ignroant are always the loudest to complain about things they know nothing - absolutely NOTHING - about.

It is no coincidence that those baying for blood have never owned a real dog in their life. They certainly have never owned a pit bull. I dare say they have never even met one.

fml says:

05:11pm | 18/08/11

Yep, because its the pit fighting community which is misunderstood.

Jade says:

05:27pm | 18/08/11

Bull terriers are absolutely gorgeous as are pitties. And you are correct… most people are just ignorant and I don’t doubt for a second that a majority would never have even crossed paths with one.

SirGit says:

05:55pm | 18/08/11

‘I probably know more about this subject than anyone else posting here. I think I am qualified to state that the American Pit Bull Terrier is one of the finest breeds there is’ hahahaha ive been on a plane a lot of times and watched it take off…doesn’t make me qualified to fly the plane….watching pitbulls fight doesn’t make you more of an expert than anyone else

Any animal that is capable of doing the amount of damage these dogs can should be banned from suburban areas….the right of life for a four year old girl should outway your right to own these ugly monsters

Dog Lover and Trainer says:

06:00pm | 18/08/11

Of course, there’s no breed standard for the American Pit Bull terrier, so the restricted breed legislation is about as useless as calls to cull the “breed” itself.

That’s because there is almost no genetic difference between the American Pit Bull Terrier and the American Kennel Club recognised American Staffordshire Terrier. The APBT is also very closely related to the American Bulldog, the (English) Staffordshire Bull Terrier, and even the Bull Terrier - none of which are banned or restricted breeds.

Anyone who knows anything about any of these breeds also knows how stable their temperments are, and how trustworthy they are with people. Banning the import of the APBT has merely led to underground and “backyard” breeding - which is one of the major causes of poor temperament. Just like the drugs trade, if you ban it, it will go underground.

There are not so many purebred American Pit Bull Terriers left in Australia any more, as their genes have been diluted and they have been mixed with other breeds to make them bigger, such as mastiffs etc. There is no concern for temperament. In fact, unstable dogs are more likely to be used by backyard breeders who don’t know the difference between a nervous, defensive “cur” that is highly likely to show (nervous) aggression but have little gameness, and one that is stable and confident with deep gameness (look the term up if you don’t know what it means).

Finally, the size considered ideal for an APBT in America is actually not that big at all - somewhere between 20kg and 30kg. Not that any of the keyboard warriors on here would know . . .

Lisa H. says:

11:42pm | 18/08/11

Gameness: according to the American Pit Bull Terrier page http://www.nyx.net/~mbur/apbtfaqfaq.html#q7
is a determination to master any situation and never back down out of fear. It was developed in pit bulls by many generations of selective breeding. It is what allows a pit bull to keep fighting non-stop for two or more hours, in spite of broken bones, torn muscles, blood loss, dehydration, and exhaustion.

Aka the very ‘virtue’ that makes this breed a killer as opposed to, say, a poodle. No doubt the cross bred dog which killed this poor child was ‘game’.... it certainly persisted.

The fact that pit bull fanciers discuss ‘gameness’  really proves the critics point…. these dogs just hang on, shaking and mauling. The poor family was hitting this dog with a table.

Dog Owner and Trainer, for you to say on a public forum that on one hand ‘gameness’ is an admirable trait… and then to say that the dog was a cross breed and there fore does not carry any pit bull traits…. is a total crock.

Just because a dog doesn’t have papers doesn’t mean it’s not a pit bull. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck….  my guess is it ain’t a maltese terrier.

To say there are less than 80 pit bulls in Victoria is a farcical joke. Cross breeds are for all intents and purposes pit bulls. Or, of course, the favourite in my bogan paradise…the pit bull staffy cross.

Fred says:

11:01am | 19/08/11

So if you are an undercover journalist, as you say you are, perhaps you can post some links to your work to educate us plebians, and perhaps post your name so that we can research your professional credentials.

You position, though, seems to be one of defending dog fighting.

Loz says:

12:30pm | 19/08/11

@ Dog Owner and Trainer - have you owned a Bull Terrier or Pit Bull Terrier -they are two different breeds.

Dog Lover and Trainer says:

04:31pm | 19/08/11

Lisa, you have no idea. That’s OK. I’m sure this is a new concept to you.

Gameness is much more than an ability to absorb punishment. It’s how a dog challenges adversity - in the physical and metaphysical sense. It’s what makes a Pit Bull so loyal, reliable, steadfast and willing to do anything for its owner. It’s a sense of self-confidence and optimism that gives the dog character and humour. A sense of purpose, being and belonging. It is so much more than you describe . . .

But that’s only because have read the definition of the word and not experienced it yourself. In it’s purest form, it is a truly admirable trait in any living thing - as history and folklore attests. It doesn’t matter whether you succeed or fail in your pursuits, it matters only that you try your best and not give up.

“Gameness” is a metaphor for “life”.

As for your comments about dog breeding, you should leave that to the experts (of which I do not claim to be one myself), as again you are talking nonsense and trying to put words into my mouth.

In fact, I’m not even sure you read my post properly, as I made no mention of there being “less than 80 pit bulls in Victoria”. I don’t know where you got that from. Nor did I say anything about cross-breeds not carrying any pit bull traits. Please point out where I said that.

Fred, you’re a little naive, aren’t you? Think about what you’re asking me to do. But if the author of this opinion piece wishes me to contact him and verify my credentials, I’d be happy to do so. As one journalist to another. I’d be more than willing to talk to him on this subject. How about it, Anthony?

Kika says:

09:00am | 19/08/11

Absolutely. But you try to tell these people that their dogs even have a DNA profile and they will spit chips at you. I don’t think they know what DNA is. Oh that’s right, only humans have DNA. Dogs are just lumps of clay ready to be ‘behaviour’ trained.

Stiffy says:

11:47am | 19/08/11

In NSW the most recent legislation on dogs was allowing them to accompany their owner to the local cafe. How many more children are to be killed or maimed? It is time this problem was seriously tackled by our politicians. The vexing question of identifying the illegal breeds must be overcome. DNA sounds like a logical way of eradicating the illegal breeds. The idea of making dog owners more responsible for the actions of their dogs may also see a reduction of these terrible attacks.

iMitchy says:

04:21pm | 18/08/11

We can’t ban the humans.

That’s why we banned guns - to limit the deadly power of that person in the mirror.

Thankyou for supporting the cause…

Rev says:

04:33pm | 18/08/11

You forgot to mention dogs travelled into space before humans did.  Idiot.

Laura says:

11:14pm | 18/08/11

But humans sent dogs into space. The dog died as well, so there you go.

gravy says:

04:11pm | 18/08/11

thats why its even more important to punish those ‘macho types’ who buy pitt bulls so they can look tough and have the dog act aggressively so they can feel better about themselves. I would bet if you locked up all these idiots the incidence of dog attacks by ALL breeds would drop, and fast.

If you ban pitt bulls they will just move onto the next breed of ‘macho’ dog and the cycle continues, and nobody wins.

Lock these idiots up!

fml says:

05:14pm | 18/08/11

until the next idiot with a pit bull comes along..

Michael says:

10:37am | 19/08/11

FML generalising again? your intolerance is showing. So much intolerance of other people’s ideas.

fml says:

11:41am | 19/08/11

Michael,

So you dont think that owners who stand back and let the dog attack and kill a child is an idiot?

Michael says:

12:29pm | 19/08/11

No FML, not an idiot. The person who would stand back and watch is a fearful person who is not prepared to accept responsibility for their animal, their beliefs on other people’s rights and the safety of our community. An idiot is not responsible, they are an idiot, mentally deficient.

Don’t misunderstand, i have my own emotional reactions to what has happened and i have to resist my own prejudices about the type of person i judge him to be.

It doesn’t edify a lost life to rage against the things that are not ok, measured reasonable responses are required, perhaps if someone does have difficulty with a breed of dog, that person be restricted from owning dangerous breeds, it could be called Ayen’s Law.

Nothing will bring back this little girl or stop the pain her loss is causing, but lashing out at people or animals wont make anyone feel better either, this family needs compassion not a raging lynchmob out for pitty blood.

Jade says:

03:50pm | 18/08/11

People try and tell me all the time that one of my dogs just can’t possibly be an american staffy and has to be a pit bull because of his size.  They never seen how big his dad was though… that was a solid chunk of dog if I have ever seen one

Lisa H. says:

03:20pm | 19/08/11

Who cares, ultimately, as the pit bull staffy varieties are so closely related that a lot of this conversation is ultimately splitting hairs.

Breeding is nowhere near an exact science in any case… breeders still argue with vets about how hip dysplasia is caused. Until breeds are grown in a lab, under totally artificial conditions with total understanding and screening of zygote DNA, the claim that ‘this’ breed or ‘that’ breed have a rigid series of characteristics is absolute balderdash.

Most people who breed don’t have papers. There is also a lot of accidental or unplanned breeding.

Most if not all of the male pit bull or staffy cross dogs I see (I work in an animal-related field) are entire, because their owner enjoys the ‘edge’ that the entire male dog represents.

maus says:

03:53pm | 18/08/11

Completely agree Dog Lover. Yes, all dogs have the capacity to bite. My two working dogs certainly do, although they’ve never bit anyone. Difference is that my kelpies (and most other dogs, including german shepherds) would give someone a single bite, after some growling as a warning - and yes, I would put them down if they did that. Pitbull’s are designed to lock on and not let go - hence the stories about having to slam them in car doors to get them to release.

Ban them now.

Fred says:

03:44pm | 18/08/11

“All dogs are descendant from wolves”... um, wrong.

Dog Owner and Trainer says:

03:57pm | 18/08/11

Surprise, suprise. Look what is says under “Pit Bull Terrier”:

Intentional training is the most common cause of Pit Bull attacks, as these dogs are intentionally bred to be human friendly. Just before a pit fight the dog is checked by hand by the opponent’s dog handler to ensure that there are no additional devices used. Those that bite humans were instantly killed.

Never let the facts get in the way of a gratuitous headline, eh Anthony?

Kika says:

05:00pm | 18/08/11

Ah yes, Fred. What? Are they descended from cats?

Dog Owner and Trainer - human friendly. Yes. Most of them are friendly towards ‘humans’. Except young kids who may threaten them and seem more like another animal and the elderly who can’t defend themselves.

I would have thought you would have known this. Where did you learn your animal training husbandry? From a dog fight ring?

gravy says:

04:14pm | 18/08/11

i would have to disagree with you. The only way a well trained and socialised dog will attack a human being is if it is being provoked, or trying to protect a member of its family/pack.

There is NO way a well trained dog will attack for no reason, none what so ever.

Benevolent Rapscallion says:

08:19pm | 18/08/11

@ gravy - “There is NO way a well trained dog will attack for no reason, none what so ever.”

What do you mean by no reason? There is always a reason for an attack. It may not be a conscious decision on the part of the dog (e.g. I know of an aggressive dog - very well trained, btw -  that turned out to have epilepsy and his sudden, unprovoked rages ceased when he was medicated) but there is always a reason, whether we know it or not.

Vader says:

08:42am | 19/08/11

People are more important than dogs idiot.

sally says:

04:21pm | 18/08/11

pitbulls were bred to fight other dogs, not people. In fact, originally (back in the 1800’s) they were known as the “nanny dog” and left to guard the kids while parents went out.

Kika says:

04:52pm | 18/08/11

Sally - you are wrong. Why are they called pit bulls and not pit dogs? They are bred to kill BULLS!!

According to Wikipedia:-
American Pitbulls - In the United States, these dogs were used as catch dogs for semi-wild cattle and hogs, to hunt, to drive livestock, and as family companions[11]. Some have been selectively bred for their fighting prowess.[12] [13]

Staffordshire bull terrier - The Staffordshire bull terrier had its beginnings in England many centuries ago when the bulldog and Mastiff were used for the sports of bull-baiting and bear-baiting;

Bulls and bears hey?

Daniel D says:

08:27am | 19/08/11

Kika, your hysteria is out of control and you do not know what you are talking about.

Bull baiting was banned in 1835 it was thought that if a bull was “hot ” before it was killed it would make the meat more tender. the dogs were not bred to KILL bulls. They ARE famous for being an excellent family dog and good with children.

Kika says:

08:59am | 19/08/11

Daniel - so all of a sudden that pedigree disappeared out of the dog? So if I decided I wanted to be Chinese and not European I could just train my behaviour to BE chinese and all of a sudden all my genetic and DNA history would be eradicated out of my body and I’ll be Chinese??

Wow. Amazing. Where did you learn your science? That’s remarkable.

Daniel D says:

10:10am | 19/08/11

No Kika not all of a sudden, it’s been 176 years. Do you think that because 176 years ago that they trained them to stir a up a few bulls that they can’t be excellent family dogs. I have already explained that dog-on-human aggression is not part of the breeds nature. You obviously know nothing about the breed other than what selective text you can drag up from a wikipedia search and just because your sister went to Uni does not make you a rational, logical reasonable or intelligent person. You are either a hysterical idiot or a troll.

Katy says:

02:52pm | 19/08/11

Kika,

“So if I decided I wanted to be Chinese and not European I could just train my behaviour to BE chinese and all of a sudden all my genetic and DNA history would be eradicated out of my body and I’ll be Chinese?” And how exactly does one ‘be Chinese’? Or ‘be European’? What behaviours are involved in those? Because from what I understood… Chinese and European were ethnicities, not DNA strands.

Logic fail. And some science fail while we’re there.

To quote your Wiki article back to you:

In the United States, these dogs were used as catch dogs for semi-wild cattle and hogs, to hunt, to drive livestock, and as family companions[11].

Read that last bit back. Family companions.

Just because you personally have had a bad experience with pit bulls, doesn’t mean that every pit bull in the world is a raging monster. Just about every cat I’ve ever tried to pet has taken a swipe at me with its claws. Doesn’t mean I think all cats are evil and want them dead.

Grow up, Kika. Or get off the internet. One or the other.

iMitchy says:

05:48pm | 18/08/11

The sense of security is not dangerous, depending on where I am at the time and what is going on around me, I am still aware that I could be bashed or stabbed etc.
People should beware of all strange dogs, but there are certain breeds that have a bad track record.
To compare the number of attacks attributed to breeds of dog, as many do, is a flimsy arguement. A better idea would be to drop the word “dog” from the equation and regard each breed as its own species. Now compare number of attacks to population of that particular breed and grade the result of the attack. There is a difference between a nip and a severe mauling or death.
You could do the same for guns, knives and fists. Guns are more likely to kill you than knives and knives more likely than fists.
I wouldn’t want to eradicate the species but I don’t think that keeping these animals as pets in Australia is responsible.

gravy says:

07:53pm | 18/08/11

very well said, couldn’t agree more with you.

SD says:

11:04pm | 18/08/11

Jo, I completely agree with you. Maybe if we could have a few snipers dotted around our neighbourhoods we would all be much more alert without that pesky but completely false sense of security.
Love it. I’m gonna write a letter right now to the PM. Maybe the carbon tax could fund it.

Morgan says:

04:17pm | 18/08/11

Exaclty, people are just looking for an easy answer.

Kate says:

04:28pm | 18/08/11

No - it’s because they are not capable of killing someone unlike a larger dog. Have you not seen how tiny their mouths are?! And they usually bite because they are sick of being picked up all the time because they are “small and cute”!!!  Or they feel threatened because they are so much smaller than everyone else!

Kika says:

04:30pm | 18/08/11

Oh yeah? Why not? I don’t see many little kids dying of being attacked and killed by Shih Tzu’s.
SHIH TZU - bred for being lap dogs and their feisty personality
PIT BULL - Bred for bringing down and killing BULLS.

Why can’t we blame them? The proof is right there.

Sky says:

05:11pm | 18/08/11

Kate, They might not be capable of KILLING someone but they most certainly can bite. I got bitten by a poodle once and my whole hand blew up I had to be hospitalized with IV antibiotics and was even at risk of losing my hand the infection of a dog bite can be so severe. Tell me thats not dangerous?

gravy says:

08:00pm | 18/08/11

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9A05E7DE1630E733A25756C1A9669D946897D6CF

killed by a cat, we should start banning them too, QUICK!

Dog Lover says:

10:20pm | 18/08/11

“But you don’t see anyone winging about that because he’s a cute small fluffy thing??”

Uuuh, no - the fact that we aren’t complaining about being barked at by a Shih Tzu is not because its fluffy, its because after it barked and growled at us, we weren’t dead and neither were our kids.

FFS!

Kate says:

04:50pm | 18/08/11

This may be the case but a bite by a Maltese won’t kill you so really there is no comparison. Yes I do own a Maltese… but I also own a Staffy cross and I’m smart enough to realise the different effects of a bite from my two dogs could cause.
P.S your heaps cool for owning an American Staffy which you say likes to attack smaller fluffy dogs - shows how nice a character she really has!

Kika says:

04:55pm | 18/08/11

I feel sad for you. You actually think that having a tough dog makes you a better person than Paris Hilton with her chihuahua in the handbag. Hers makes her look cute, yours makes you look tough, right?

Sky says:

05:14pm | 18/08/11

I could not agree with you more! I have a Blue Am staff girl and she is wonderful with people, would never hurt a person, however I think fluffy white dogs look a bit too much like rabbits to her he he he

Deano says:

05:16pm | 18/08/11

Kika and kate thank you for the response , you girls sound like good birds, do you both want to come over and check out my dog?

Emma says:

09:28pm | 18/08/11

One of you guys must be my former neighbour?  He always joked about how his bull terrier cross liked to kill lap dogs…in fact one day he set his bull terrier on a small dog and then attacked the owner with a hammer when they tried to save it.  Sound familiar?

Fred says:

11:10am | 19/08/11

Nice attitude Deano, you bogan scum. People like you are the reason I carry a weapon when I walk my dog.

Stiffy says:

03:20pm | 19/08/11

Poor Deano & Sky….. Off pig hunting for the weekend is it?

Deano says:

05:38pm | 18/08/11

Kate i dont think you would be able to cope with much unfortunantly.

SirGit says:

06:08pm | 18/08/11

Hi Blondie, now I know where blonde jokes came from!  If someone goes inside they must open the door unless it is already open…the dog could then follow the person inside.  So good job in totally missing the point there….only one fact counts dog kills small child. 
How often do we hear about a beloved ‘wouldn’t hurt a fly dog that turns and savages the owners child?  Anyone who owns a dog that can do this to a child is irresponsible (I dont care how loving you think these things are).

Katy says:

11:39am | 19/08/11

So, SirGit, what you’re saying is that anyone who owns a dog is irresponsible? Because even though it was a pitbull that bit THIS child, a pitbull that caused THIS tragedy… Any dog can turn. Any dog can maul and cause fatal damage to a child of that size.

Also, if an aggressive dog had just come at you and you were fleeing inside your home… Wouldn’t your first instinct be to bar it from entering? I.e. Shut the door? I know mine would.

And Blondie is right, read more than one article on this story, facts about where the dog was, what it did, what the family did, where the family were change from article to article. Some say the dog ‘wandered into the yard’, implying that it was not acting aggressively, it was just curious. Some say it ‘went’ the family. Some say the family were all in the living room and leaped up on tables when the dog came in. Some say that some were in the yard and ran inside. Some say that the mother had the child clinging to her leg. Some say the mother ran outside for help. The only fact that remains the same, Ayen Chol very tragically died from a dog bite. Should THAT dog be destroyed? Yes. Should ALL dogs be destroyed because of one tragedy? No.

Michelle says:

06:51pm | 18/08/11

Kika, I agree with your posts, and with the sentiments of this article. Unfortunately the views expressed on this page do not represent the general population, as I suspect the pit-bull loving community is relishing this opportunity to hijack these news-sites to espouse their bogan agenda.  I’m noticing there is little regard by most, for the fact that a beautiful child’s life has been cruelly and viciously taken.

They instantly lose credibility by arguing about Maltese Terriers etc - that is a classic diversionary technique used by people who know they have already lost an argument. People own pit-bulls to make themselves feel powerful and feared.  All you need to do is look at the demographic of people that own these dogs. I doubt you will see many highly educated types among them

Oh, and to the pit-bull lovers, please don’t call yourselves dog lovers because pit-bulls main and kill more dogs than they do people.

Jade says:

05:32pm | 18/08/11

Haha “status dogs”... anyway my Am staffys regularly go to the vet. My sisters pit bulls also frequent the vet often!  All the staff absolutely love them (both the staffys and the pitties) and the dogs love the attention

Steve says:

05:58pm | 18/08/11

Most of the time we kill things that we do like. For instance I like beef, pork, lamb, fish. I prefer them dead.

MarK says:

09:14pm | 18/08/11

I was not planning to eat Mugabe nor was Sharwood wanting to make pitbull rissoles afaik

Sick of the BS says:

11:40pm | 18/08/11

lol “lockjaw” is one of the biggest urban myths ever perpetuated! Of course its used as a bs excuse by people who have nfi what the hell they are talking about!!

Kika says:

09:07am | 19/08/11

Ignorant racist filth? OMG..!!! You make me laugh.

So from what you are saying dogs are just lumps of clay ready to be behaviourly trained to be the kind of dog you want them to be?

Why don’t you go ask a Vet, or contact your local university where they have a zoological or biological department and ask what DNA is, how DNA affects an animal and whether a dog descended from the original Mastiffs are likely to have a lock jaw.

P.S. If the pit bull doesn’t have ‘lock jaw’ why couldnt they pry the dog off that poor little 4 year old girl? With all those people around her, even latching onto her mothers leg nobody could pull the dog off that poor little girl.  Any normal dog would have let go if they had that many people trying to get the dog from attacking.  I’ve had dogs my whole life and never ever would they have had that ability to latch on. Why? Not mastiff descended. That’s why.

Ok, this is what I don’t get. IF we agree that people are products of their DNA, ancestry and lineage why can’t dogs be the same?

Disgusted says:

06:20pm | 19/08/11

It’s funny how you ask me to ask a vet or university when I have double major in ecology and biodiversity. Unlike you I know what i’m talking about because I don’t just read news.com.au opinionated ignorant blogs and wikipedia.

glad you backed up that lockjaw statement and DNA rubbish with some scientific fact…...

Lisa H. says:

11:51pm | 18/08/11

Why don’t you get a mind? A toy poodle might give you a nasty bite, but it’s highly unlikely to grab your child or grandmother and shake and maul until your loved one dies.
Why don’t you get a mind and notice the obvious difference in outcome between an attack by an aggressive toy poodle and an attack from a much larger aggressive dog.
Most people don’t actually train their dogs to attack, btw. That seems a strawman. The owner of this pit bull cross is apparently devastated.

Loz says:

12:52pm | 19/08/11

No, Amazed, it wouldnt hurt a fly - until it does. All dogs have the ability to act aggressively, in some circumstances - its called animal instinct, and no amount of training can override it.
And you state that “If you will notice the ones doing the attacking are all cross-breeds” - but you claim that you have an “American Staffordshire Pit-Bull Terrier” - no such breed unless it is an American Pit Bull Terrier cross Staffy or American Staffy cross American Pit Bull Terrier etc etc.

wouldnt be too quick to be out there calling other people “stoopid”.

Loz says:

01:23pm | 19/08/11

Vic,

i’d imagine that there was a huge amount of people that would have been happy to see these murderers put to death - they just werent given this type of forum to express it…...

Michelle says:

12:00pm | 19/08/11

Great comment John. The bogans who own pit-bulls are unlikely to know what “obfuscation” means though, so I doubt they will respond. Unfortunately the lack of compassion or even interest in the fact that a little girl has died is a product of the “Animals = Good” “People = Bad” mentality. Until it happens to their kid, they couldn’t care less.

Fred says:

01:38pm | 19/08/11

Best comment. Thank you.

Jade, care to respond? Visit dictionary.com if need be.

Jade says:

02:24pm | 19/08/11

I would fully support a pet licencing system.  I have seen far to many times people getting animals for the sake of it, only to mistreat and neglect the poor things.  The dogs need to be trained and the owners need to be trained.

What good did the ban on fire arms do? How many shootings/armed robbery etc have been reported on in the last few months… it didn’t work to well.  Pit Bulls are banned in most QLD councils localities, yet people still breed them and buy/sell them. It is obvious that blanket bans do not work, and in all honesty I don’t really see how a licencing system could work either, only honest citizens would comply.

And for arguments sake, lets say that the decision was made to kill all pit bull’s, just cull the lot. What breed of dog would be next, would I be forced to have my Am staffies put down because some knob thinks they could be dangerous?

I am a responsible owner, my dogs have had training, are desexed and micro-chipped.  Plenty of people I know with Pit Bulls do the same, so why should the people doing the right thing be punished because a select few don’t?

My dogs are my children and are treated as such.

Stiffy says:

03:37pm | 19/08/11

Excellent comment John. i think you have summed up how the majority of people feel about this tragedy.
One for the Pit Bull supporters. From the customs PI and also refer to Badgers well said words :
Dogs of the following breeds - dogo Argentino; fila Brasileiro; Japanese tosa; American pit bull terrier or pit bull terrier; Perro de Presa Canario or Presa Canario.

The prohibition also covers advertising matter relating to the breeds.

Imports are not allowed under any circumstances.

marley says:

08:28am | 19/08/11

I was taught that technique for protecting myself from a dog bite when I was in school - in the 1950s. 

And dogs have been bred as companion animals for at least 30,000 years.  They are not programmed to “roam” - they are programmed to be pets. 

And small, supervised house dogs are more of a menace than big, goofy St Bernards.

Your comment is a miasma of misinformation.

Michelle says:

12:16pm | 19/08/11

How interesting that what you immediately thought when you read the story was, “here we ****ing go again with the anti-pitbull hysteria” (your words, not mine) instead of “how terribly tragic that a 4 yo girl has been ripped to shreds in front of her mother”. I think that says it all, really.

Michelle says:

12:16pm | 19/08/11

How interesting that what you immediately thought when you read the story was, “here we ****ing go again with the anti-pitbull hysteria” (your words, not mine) instead of “how terribly tragic that a 4 yo girl has been ripped to shreds in front of her mother”. I think that says it all, really.

Urh says:

12:37pm | 19/08/11

Of course I thought the death was a tragedy. But hey, if you want to mistake me for some kind of sociopath, that’s your prerogative.

stephen says:

10:22pm | 18/08/11

The Indonesians I hear are still taking care of that for us.
Bless them.

Lisa H. says:

11:13pm | 18/08/11

The killer pet cow walked into someone else’s living room in an urbanised environment and mauled a child to death?

I’m afraid I don’t see the connection or equivalences between these two tragedies…

A cow killed someone, so therefore don’t blame the dog…is that what you are trying to say?
S**t happens… is that what you are trying to say?

People (even small children!) die on the roads every day as well… maybe that’s a good reason not to consider how to better protect people from unprovoked dog attacks.

Lisa H. says:

11:06pm | 18/08/11

Pit Bulls and Staffies are very popular…because they are so prolific (in our area of oz, anyway).
They are an extremely common pet here, because relatively few local owners want to sterilise their male staffy or pit bull.
If that is not saying something about the ‘macho’ pretentions of pit bull and staffy ownership, I’m not sure what does.
As a result of owners reluctance to sterilise, there are very unplanned staffy and pit bull puppies available!
The breeds are also heavily represented in the ‘rescue’ animal rehoming centres in my area, and there are literally dozens for rehoming advertised in our free newspapers every week.

Kika says:

09:25am | 19/08/11

Agree. There is absolutely no reason why people have these dogs other than being the bogans version of Paris Hilton having a chihuahua in her bag. One makes the person look tough, the other makes the person look sweet. Take your pick.

Why anyone would have these dogs with no regard for the community at large amazes me.

If I decide to buy a leopard and want a leopard as a pet because I want to have one and it looks cool.  I’ll take it to an animal behaviouralist expert and socialise it and I’ll try being really responsible. But just don’t blame me if it mauls your child. I trained it to be nice!!

Bullpitt!!! says:

02:37pm | 19/08/11

Chihuahua owners may think they look sweet, but they’re pretentious morons that don’t ever think they need to discipline and train their psychotic mini-monsters. I know the person who found out the hard way when thir “precious darling” bit a large chunk out of their nose.
You may think it’s funny, but you’d be laughing on the other side of your face if a chiuahua bit YOUR child’s nose off.
A horrid little abomination of nature run out of its house and chased me and my lab half-way down the street - because we DARED to pass in front of the house! The only reason why I run away is because I was afraid my lab may retaliate, which would most likely end in (very deserved) death of the little horror, but that would end up as “Lab mauls defenceless little chihuahua” and my dog on the death row.

Exterminate all chihuahuas NOW! Before they bite your child’s nose off and choke your lab!!!

Bullpitt!!! says:

02:37pm | 19/08/11

Chihuahua owners may think they look sweet, but they’re pretentious morons that don’t ever think they need to discipline and train their psychotic mini-monsters. I know the person who found out the hard way when thir “precious darling” bit a large chunk out of their nose.
You may think it’s funny, but you’d be laughing on the other side of your face if a chiuahua bit YOUR child’s nose off.
A horrid little abomination of nature run out of its house and chased me and my lab half-way down the street - because we DARED to pass in front of the house! The only reason why I run away is because I was afraid my lab may retaliate, which would most likely end in (very deserved) death of the little horror, but that would end up as “Lab mauls defenceless little chihuahua” and my dog on the death row.

Exterminate all chihuahuas NOW! Before they bite your child’s nose off and choke your lab!!!

Trevil Knieval says:

08:45am | 19/08/11

and your source is what?......

Anne Greenaway says:

08:53am | 19/08/11

I agree 100% Kersten

I saw this comment on Facebook and it gave me a laugh.

?“You can, however, legislate against idiots. And we should. idiot blog writers should all be killed. Every last one. It really is as simple as that.”

Many people on Facebook are disgusted with this piece of “journalism”. Very poor form. Here is an article that is a bit more balanced

http://www.smh.com.au/victoria/blame-owners-not-breed-behaviour-specialist-20110818-1iyvi.html

Anne Greenaway says:

08:54am | 19/08/11

I agree 100% Kersten

I saw this comment on Facebook and it gave me a laugh.

?“You can, however, legislate against idiots. And we should. idiot blog writers should all be killed. Every last one. It really is as simple as that.”

Many people on Facebook are disgusted with this piece of “journalism”. Very poor form. Here is an article that is a bit more balanced

http://www.smh.com.au/victoria/blame-owners-not-breed-behaviour-specialist-20110818-1iyvi.html

Nick says:

01:31pm | 19/08/11

the dogs aren’t dump, its the owner that is dumb and doesn’t train there dogs, my dad had a pitbull cross and it was a very friendly dog even to my 80 year old grand mother and strangers, compare it to husky we had when i was a baby, before i walked that husky thought i was another animal so my parents always kept it away from me, as soon as i started to walk it was the most friendly dog ever, any breed will kill someone if someone treats it like crap or put them in the wrong situation. this just another nanny state knee-jerk reaction, quick ban everything based on ignorance not facts

John says:

03:53pm | 19/08/11

You would be talking about a standard poodle - the US army used them too.  Don’t try to be clever - the standard poodle is a large dog - and they were used as guard dogs, messengers etc - not attack dogs.  Poodles would have been used as they are reasonably bright, their coat is low maintenance and, as a hunting dog originally, quite hardy and energetic.  They were not bred to fight.  What is it with you bogans and intellectual dishonesty?

Symes says:

08:48am | 19/08/11

You must be one of the stupid mothers who allow a dangerous dog around an infant, and more stupidly, around yours. Tell me the dogs that have “personality”? ALL dogs, and especially this breed can be instant killers, in a fraction of a second. Humans cannot know when a dangerous breed WILL attack. And people, stupid people, call them ‘pets’.

Michael says:

11:32am | 19/08/11

Hey Fiona, i’m sorry you have to deal with being abused about your parenting skills, for expressing your opinion, thanks for going to the trouble.

Hope you have a great day

Bullpitt!!! says:

02:50pm | 19/08/11

Hey, Symes, do you have any kids? If so then you’re a HORRIBLE parent, because haven’t you heard? Being BORN is the leading cause of death!!!111one
And if you fathered any kids you DOOMED them to death!!!111one

(Hey, being hysterical tool is quite fun!)

Vader says:

08:45am | 19/08/11

Completely agree.

All of these dogs are not worth the life of one child.

They are far too often involved in serious and fatal attacks.

Wipe out these breeds and make the owners liable.

Paula says:

11:33am | 19/08/11

If pool owners are forced to upgrade the security levels of their fences to make sure they aren’t SUED if a child wanders into their pool and drowns why are pit bull owners from the same exemptions of making sure their potentially dangerous dog doesn’t harm someone’s child?

Even if the proximity and chances that the dog will cause harm, just as pool owners often have no foreseeability or reason to believe that any child will die because they happen to have a pool, dog owners should be made civically responsible to neuter their restricted dogs to ensure public safety.

Kika says:

11:53am | 19/08/11

LIKE!!!

All Pro-“APBT” people should check the stats and make comment accordingly.

Katy says:

02:10pm | 19/08/11

Kika,

Lockjaw in bull breeds is one of the most perpetuated urban myths in the animal kingdom. But it is just that. A myth.

http://www.dogwatch.net/myths/lock_jaw.html

Bull breeds all have strong jaws. Yes. But no dog in the animal kingdom has a jaw that will lock.

“There are… ...reasons why these sorts of dogs are killers.” All of them? Every single one? So nobody has ever owned a loving, gentle Pit Bull Terrier, or a loving Staffordshire Bull Terrier, or Bull Terrier? Where does this information come from?

“They have… ...amygdala issues…” Where are you getting your information from in this respect? As someone who worked in Mental Health for 7 years, I would genuinely like to read it.

“...9/10 (of) these dogs are bred by idiotic and arrogant backyard breeders…” Where did these statistics come from? I can only assume you made them up, because I doubt with all the time you’ve spent throwing around grandiose statements and vague statistics on this post you’ve had time to find out if 9 out of every 10 Pit Bull breeders is an arrogant, idiotic backyard breeder with no consideration for their animals.

You can’t believe how stupid people are in this country? I can’t believe that a) people are so violently opinionated without having all the facts at their disposal, and b) people would try and argue a point in a fierce debate such as this with such easily disproved statistics.

Lisa H. says:

10:21am | 19/08/11

Actually, there have been several fatal attacks in Western Australia over recent years that are not included on this list.
One particularly stuck in my mind, as it was a savage mauling to death of an old lady, in her back yard, by a group of dogs.
Can’t find anything about these attacks via Google though…guess it’s all yesterday’s news. :(

Emma says:

10:31am | 19/08/11

Kika - I agree with the broad sentiment about controlling these types of dogs but think culling is impractical (see below).  Regarding this list - I’m wondering if it is just for pitbulls and similar breeds?  I ask because I know a Siberian Husky killed a newborn in Perth in late 2007 - I have several huskies and my daughter was born about the same time so it made a big impression.

Kendaa says:

11:10am | 19/08/11

The other side of the coin:

http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/enough-bullpit.-destroy-these-murderous-mutts

March 3, 2009, pit bull shot while protecting family during home invasion

July 13, 2009, pit bull stops home invasion

April 9, 2009, put bull stops abduction

December 18, 2008, pit bull chases burglar from home

December 10, 2008, pit bull risks life to save family

December 11, 2008, pit bull gives life while protecting owner

March 15, 2008, pit bull drags woman to safety

January 31, 2008, pit bull saves owner from attacker

January 18, 2008, pit bull alerts family to house fire, and gives life saving her owners

26 October 2007, pit bull saves owner from attacker

December 13 2007, saves toddler from drowning

12 November 2003, pit bull saves 7 year old boy

December 6 2003, pit bull saves child from fire

November 3 2007, pit bull stays beside trapped owner in burning tanker crash

June 2 2007, pit bull saves family from fire

February 13 2007, pit bull saves family from fire

August 3, 2007, pit bull saves family from fire

July 26 2006, saves 9 year old from predator

March 25 2006, pit bull dies a hero protecting owner from mugger

And the list goes on and on…

There are two sides to every argument.

Jacki says:

11:32am | 19/08/11

Wow you’re FACTS are from news.com.au…. you MUST be well informed… BAHAHAHA!

You can’t correctly identify a mix breed by sight (even DNA isn’t 100% correct). The VAST majority of news reports on dog breeds are incorrect, however, when headlines ‘pit bull attacks’ draws more readers then ‘dog attack’ - that is why there are so many pit bull head lines.

If you’d actually like to try REAL research please visit http://nationalcanineresearchcouncil.com/publications/ncrc-publications/ and http://www.dafrevlogancc.bigpondhosting.com/ 

It involves A LOT of reading but I’m sure you can do it!

Kendaa says:

11:48am | 19/08/11

Apologies - I pasted the wrong link:

http://www.understand-a-bull.com/Articles/HeroicPitties/

Tanya says:

11:09am | 19/08/11

Well said, Mr Mulder. But you are a dog lover and responsible owner.

This is an horrific tragedy brought about by that dogs’s owner failing to nurture and contain it, a reprehensible, anti social act. Unfortunately, those sorts of people live amongst us and they deserve the direst penalty even though that doesn’t compensate or address the broader issue.

All breeds have the potential to be dangerous. I lived next door to an Australian Terrier aptly named Hannibal who was declared a dangerous dog after a number of serious attacks. Occasionally he would escape and the nasty little thing had the capacity to terrorise an entire suburban street - people would be running for cover screaming and grabbing their children. He’d have done damage to a child given the opportunity. But his owner was a nasty, aggressive little man who left him alone all day and couldn’t contain him.

I love all dogs. I don’t own one because I travel too much to be fair to one and come the time I am able to, I will love it very much. It won’t be a Pit Bull based on the negative publicity. But I can’t abide the suggestion of a mass slaughter on the basis of breed because there are responsible dog owners and families who love and manage them properly, as Mr Mulder said.

Michael says:

12:08pm | 19/08/11

Quote: NO dog is vicious as it comes into the world. If a dog turns out vicious or dangerous it’s trained to be that way by an owner. Without exception.

WRONG> Dogs bought up without being trained to accept humans as pack members/leaders are aggressive towards humans. The natural state is to be aggressive and fearful of unknown animals. Look at the behaviour of dingos and other feral dogs. You can train this out of them in most cases, but unlike a car or gun, the dog does have a mind of its own and relies on instinct and experience to react to situations. no dog is a robot, all dogs can be unpredictable, “Training” is necessary to break the standard wild behaviour of flight or fight.

Ted Mulder says:

03:42pm | 19/08/11

Michael, for many years I had a job working for a charity organisation that brought me into contact with over a hundred dogs a day at the place where they lived. There were many dogs that I was warned to be careful or weary about on the information dockets given to me for each address. With one exception of the many hundreds of dogs I came to know over the years I have never felt threatened. Many times I was asked by an owner, specially when it was the first time I went to that address, as to how I made it from the gate to the front door past the dog. Simple, I would say. I just open the gate, come in, close the gate, say hello to the dog in my typical soft low-tone voice, give it a ruffle over the ears and walk to the front door. Most of them find it hard to believe but the proof was always there. I am standing at the front door and the dog is standing behind me with his tail happily waving. It’s all about the right approach to a dog. There was one dog, a Shepherd, and he was so supposed to be the most vicious cur, according to the owner. Became that way after a burglary, apparently, where he was hurt by the burglars. Always behind a high padlocked gate, snarling and growling. I had to attract the attention of its owner somehow for him to come to the gate. Second time I went there I stood in front of that gate, the dog carrying on like a demon. I began to talk to it, very softly and quietly, standing motionless. After five minutes the dog stopped his snarling and growling and just stood there listening to me. I tentatively put my hand through the wire of the gate and kept it there, perfectly still. After what seemed an eternity the dog very slowly came forward, sniffed my hand and began to lick it. When the owner came to the gate he was amazed to see his Shepherd do that. I asked him to open the gate and I walked in. That dog and I became the best of friends after that.
NO dog is born vicious. If they are that they have become that way because their owner has trained them to be vicious, OR has abused or neglected them. For close to 55 years I have had dogs of many different breeds, most times 3 or 4 together, including the usual ones that people say can be dangerous. I have NEVER had a dog that would be anything else but a properly trained, properly loved and cared for, and properly controlled one and that has shown nothing but total trust, loyalty, affection, gentleness and intelligence. I have never had a problem with leaving anyone of them in the company of kids or anyone else.
Anyone who has experienced a dog that is different to the ones I have had has experienced a dog that has not been kept the way it should have been. Like the dog that killed that little girl.

Tomz says:

11:28am | 19/08/11

Not your kid that was killed obviously.

Lisa H. says:

03:08pm | 19/08/11

the issue with these strong dogs is that while your dog is healthy, she might be fine with babies (or..maybe not, depending on circumstances such move house, unsettled with a lot of movement and noise, large dog move in next door etc).
So your dog is a ‘bit ditzy’... what if she gets a chronic toothache, painful earche, or a chronic joint pain? Will she be so well behaved?
Dogs are not machines, they are biological, and respond to pain. Snapping at children is often the first sign owners have that their dog is in pain and needs treatment.

I’d rather have a snapping chihuahua than a snapping pit bull or staffy cross. I might be injured, but I’m not as likely to die.

Kika says:

11:41am | 19/08/11

A mini foxie may be aggressive, but it’s not going to maul to death a child.

The statistics are against you.

Michael says:

12:33pm | 19/08/11

A car is an extension of a human being, and is for the most part, under your direct control. A dog is an extension of its instincts and experiences with a mind of its own.

Even still, the more powerful and dangerous vehicles and under strict licensed control.

Your analogy is a failure in comprehension.

Renb81 says:

01:22pm | 19/08/11

And what characteristics of the dog allow someone to determine whether it is a pitbull? From looking at photos - pitbulls could quite easily be a staffy? It seems if it has short fur, has a stocky appearance - it has to be a pitbull!

TomZ says:

03:24pm | 19/08/11

Renb81, side-tracking the argument into mistaken identity is just glib bush lawyering.

Perhaps you need a large dog to maul you, then you might feel less inclined to discuss the the finer points of the dogs’ DNA in such cold, detatched way.

Average Joe says:

01:05pm | 19/08/11

Seriously? You are going to seriously suggest that the onus is on parents to keep their children in secure back yards, rather than dog owners to A. secure their dogs properly and B. raise and train them so as to minimize the chance they will attack someone? Unbelievable. Heck, if “anything goes” in protecting your property from burglars, I’m going to build a moat and stock it with crocs. And if one of those crocs should get out and kill a child, I guess it’s the parents fault for not kreeping their child in a croc proof enclosure…right?

Kika says:

11:55am | 19/08/11

Won’t affect anything. There are already regulations and laws about controlling your dog while off the leash and in public spaces. This dog escaped his yard, savaged people standing in their front yard and then proceeded inside where it savaged a young girl to death.

Would the owner had done anything about muzzling the dog if it didn’t even do anything to stop the dog killing that girl? Unlikely.

Glenn says:

12:39pm | 19/08/11

Surely if the end result was having your pet put down and you receiving a hefty fine you would ensure it couldn’t escape your property in the first place, and making sure it was muzzled when outdoors at all times?

FaceFacts says:

01:15pm | 19/08/11

@glenn,  That would make sense, but unfortunately, not to pit bull owners. They want the dog to be obviously tough and threatening, so common sense alternatives mean nothing in their ethos.The risk of escape, unmuzzled, is till to grave to take, IMO.

Tanya says:

01:41pm | 19/08/11

@ FaceFacts: that is a pretty unreasonable generalisation about pit bull owners. They are actually very beautiful dogs both aesthetically and for the most part, by nature. It would be a small minority who would choose to raise a savage dog of any breed or own it purely for its brawn. And whilst nothing can be compared to the suffering that little girl’s family is experiencing, the responsible owners of pit bulls would no doubt be feeling the weight of this too.

FaceFacts says:

01:45pm | 19/08/11

still too grave, I meant, obviously. No godawful, tasteless pun intended

FaceFacts says:

01:59pm | 19/08/11

@ tanya. Responsible owners of pit bull equals: oxymoron. The breed can’t be trusted and why ANYONE who has an ounce of sense would want to own one is beyond me.

Glenn says:

02:20pm | 19/08/11

I too cannot understand why anyone would want to own one but, as they say,  beauty (and otherwise) is in the eye of the beholder. 

There are no doubt many reasonable owners of this breed of dog but unfortunately we have also seen many who use the dog as some type of accoutrement to their clothing and “bad boy” looks.  Almost as if to say “Look at me I have a dangerous dog, therefore I must be dangerous too”. 

And I agree that those people are usually irresponsible and may let the dog wander without muzzles.  Those are the ones that have the propesity to be dangerous and should be destroyed, which is why I suggested the above.

Tanya says:

03:43pm | 19/08/11

@ FaceFacts: I see your point - it is by no means an ideal breed of dog to keep as a pet, particularly in suburbia. And yes, there would be a breed of redneck owner who would opt for one for the wrong reasons for sure. But the point I’m making is that it isn’t fair to judge all owners of pit bulls on the basis of this event or assume they are motivated by anything other than love of the dog. I have no doubt there would be some owners feeling extremely concerned and sad on that basis as we speak. I do actually know somebody who had one and that dog was just a friendly, lazy pet by my observation. That is not to say it wasn’t capable of snapping. But so is any breed of dog.

Glenn says:

05:19pm | 19/08/11

I agree with you Tanya.  Unfortunately a bite from a Pitt Bull, or Staffy etc can be far more serious than say one from a terrier.  Mind you, any dog bite hurts.  They are just such a tenacious animal that when they attack, they don’t back off, and if a child is at the receiving end of that ......

Jade says:

12:42pm | 19/08/11

I think you will find it a challenge to bring your dog into any other dogs yard.  The yard being the dogs territory and all it is bound to defend it against an unknown “challenge”... pit bull, bull mastiff, poodle, pug… any breed really..

That was a stupid analogy. Get a clue on how pack animals work.

Nat says:

12:23pm | 19/08/11

@Kika..I am sorry did you say Pit Bull crosses? So this would mean they weren’t really pure Pit Bulls and who knows what else they were mixed with? So you still need to explain why you don’t like Pit Bulls… have you ever spent time with a Pure Bred Pit Bull? Obviously not. Oh and when dogs of any breed play they do grab each other by the neck. I am guessing you are the like a person in my neighbourhood who owns a smaller dog and told me i shouldn’t be in the dog park with my Bull Terrier who was playing with other dogs..oh and then her Beagle attack my dog and almost ripped her ear off!!!!! But i suppose ignorance is bliss hey Kika?

Michael says:

12:38pm | 19/08/11

So it’s bias and unresolved emotions from a past experience that leads you to an irrational hatred of pitbulls, Kika.

Well that’s ok then

Loz says:

02:06pm | 19/08/11

@Kika,

and you are absolutely, 100 percent, bet your life on it certain that these dogs were Pit Bull crosses?

Anne Greenaway says:

04:36pm | 19/08/11

Where is the ‘LIKE’ button for this comment

Average Joe says:

12:54pm | 19/08/11

I’ve owned several different breeds of dog over my lifetime, and I will agree that any breed has the potential to attack, or be savage, under the right circumstances. However, unlike pitbulls and similar “fighting dog” breeds, most family type dogs (the poodles and labs of your example) don’t possess the natural strength, ferocity and ability to maim and kill the way these dogs do. A domesticated elephant is generally fairly docile and well behaved - I still don’t want them roaming the streets of my neighborhood with the potential to turn violent, thank you very much. There is no legitimate niche (family pet, guard dog, hunting companion etc.) that pitbulls fill that other, more acceptable breeds do not fit just as well or better. Face facts - most pitbull owner just want nasty little dogs with a savage reputation to impress and intimidate others…

Michael says:

01:50pm | 19/08/11

No problems, happy to eradicate Mastiff’s too. Notice that Staffies are also on the banned list? That’s because ignorant morons try to “soften” their aggressive dogs image by calling it a “Staffy x” instead of a pitbull.

In fact, we could implement some nice objective measures like bite force, tendency to attack, size of gape, etc if you don’t like us criticising your breed.

Thanks for the suggestion!

Average Joe says:

02:58pm | 19/08/11

@ Michael - it may seem people are singling out and victimizing the pitbull alone, but speaking for myself, we need much tougher measures on all potentially dangerous dogs. My most beloved dog was a staffie/red heeler cross, who was very mild mannered and friendly. What people fail to remember is that, depsite domestication, all animals are inherently “wild at heart”. My dog never showed signs of aggression her whole life, yet I still made sure to keep her on a leash whenever in public, keep her in the back yard behind high walls when at home, and never leave her unsupervised around other animals or people - most especially children. I will say that I am not in favor of a mass cull of any breed, even pitbulls. But we need some serious reviews of the laws, including potential banning of import and breeding of certain breeds, and even mandatory sterilization of certain breeds that are already here. Also, as pointed out above, some animals (most reptiles, native species) have very strict licensing requirements to own. I would say that dogs, especially larger breeds, should follow suit. Finally, owners of animals that cause harm and death to people and other animals need to bear the full brunt of the laws, and penalties need to be increased to reflect the serious nature of these incidents.

marley says:

03:23pm | 19/08/11

@michael - I doubt you could tell the difference at a glance between an English staffy X, an American staffy X and a pit bull X, especially as they all have similar heritage.

Em says:

03:55pm | 19/08/11

Exactly!!!!

Hardly any of the dogs in the media have been real pitbulls. No one really knows what they look like either.  My bulldog gets mistaken for one, for goodness sake and she looks nothing like a pittie.  My sister has three staffie/pitt/ridgeback crosses and they are the sookiest, most affectionate creatures BUT she maintains a strict, tight rein over them as all owners of these sorts of breeds should.

I was attacked by a Lab/Kelpie cross when I was a kid. Collies are known for turning snappy too if proper training isn’t given. Yeah, I know that they don’t have any of the attack power of pitties and pittie crosses or the stamina but it just goes to show that even typical family dogs can snap and hurt people. Correct care and attitudes are a must. Kneejerk reactions like these don’t do anyone any favours.

Andrew says:

06:52pm | 19/08/11

You got bit by a kelpie, the baby and many before her were killed, do you see the difference, do I really need to point out the difference, do I really need to point out who the real idiot is. And no I dont agree with killing all Pitbulls, but all the people talking about being bitten my certain dogs so they should be put down as well, need to have a get a bit of perspective.

Average Joe says:

12:55pm | 19/08/11

Exactly, Planet Reality…well put. Hitting a lot of points the “pro-pitbull” brigade seem to intentionally be missing.

Jade says:

01:40pm | 19/08/11

Children die on push bikes, I have never heard public outrage calling for them to be banned….

Kendaa says:

01:11pm | 22/08/11

You just contradicted yourself, Podreda.  “Well-trained killing machines”.  Yes, they have to be TRAINED to fight (not kill).  Many of them refuse to fight and they end up either dead or terribly maimed because they are then used as bait dogs for the others who do end up fighting. 

The lack of knowledge by the anti pit bull brigade on here is both disheartening and alarming.

kimberley says:

02:23pm | 20/08/11

Theres a killer German Shepard next door to me, it killed a dog that got into it’s yard (the rangers couldn’t find anywhere that the dog could get in there).  Each time I open my back door the damn dog throws itself against the fence, after 12 years of it I’m sick of it, but complaining to the owner is pointless because he is one of those owners who see’s everything and everyone else as the problem.

Dale says:

05:45pm | 19/08/11

Exactly. Their primary use in Australia has historically been to bring down wild pigs or other game. The reason you get people owning them in surburbia is because bogan trash want to appear tough when they are really as weak as piss and idiots sprout crap that pit bulls are no more vicious than any other breed.

Kendaa says:

04:38pm | 19/08/11

@libertarian vegetarian.  Exactly right.  I don’t suppose any of the people shrieking hysterically to slaughter any and all pit bulls would be interested in even knowing what those poor dogs in the Michael Vick case went through, much less bothering to read this:

http://www.amazon.com/Lost-Dogs-Michael-Rescue-Redemption/dp/B004Z8LIAE/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1313735705&sr=1-1

It does boil down to the owner, in every single instance.  People have forgotten that once upon a time, before the wannabe tough guys started forcing them to fight, pit bulls were known as nannies because they looked after children and they went to war where they served their nations with distinction and bravery.  No, people don’t want to know that.

FC Daly says:

04:08pm | 19/08/11

Yep - because the taipan was stalking the family, just waiting for its opportunity to attack!  Good grief.  More likely it was minding its own business and was attacked by the dog.

Jade says:

04:37pm | 19/08/11

Hhhm, one of the most deadly snakes in the world 5m from your back door, yes it may have been minding its own business, but the dog was doing its job and protecting its family. They aren’t stupid they know when something is a threat.

bananabender says:

09:03pm | 20/08/11

Snakes only bite in self-defence. They are completely harmless if left alone.

The vast majority of snake bites occur when idiotic people try and kill a snake that is minding it’s own business.

The only reason the stupid dog was bitten was because the snake was defending itself.

Average Joe says:

03:54pm | 19/08/11

Darn right! We should extend pet ownership to include kodiak bears, rhinos and Siberian tigers too. All the name of a free society! If you let me have a pet grizzly, I promise to be ever so responsible with it…

Chris says:

04:30pm | 19/08/11

@Average Joe

If you can provide and safely keep your bear, tiger, crocodile, or whatever animal you choose - you should be able to do it. Perhaps you have a large property with an animal enclosure. Government has no right interfering in these things. However, if it hurts someone, you should face criminal charges.

You may recall Christian the Lion who was a pet in London in the 70s…

Sick of the BS says:

10:08pm | 19/08/11

How would i feel? Id want the dog in question put down,not the entire breed! If we were to apply your ideaology to mankind we would have to wipe ourselves out of existence as humans kill each other en masse and have been doing so ever since day dot! Stop the over the top knee jerk reactions and try get some clarity! All you hperactive punchers need to think for yourselves for one minute! Why do you hear of Pit bulls attacking people frequently? Because the headline “Golden retriever mauls owner” is nowhere near as attention grabbing as “Pit Bull Kills Again!!” Wiping out a whole breed due to a few nutter owners irresponsibilty is outrageous at best! It sickens me to hear of people calling for a mass slaugter of other peoples beloved pets!! And where does it stop? What other breeds of so called “dangerous dogs” you despise will you be calling for the slaughter of next?

kimberley says:

01:02pm | 20/08/11

If it was my child I would expect that the dogs owner was charged with manslaughter at the very least and I would expect the dog to be put down.  I wouldn’t be blaming the entire breed for the actions of one dog.

Jaz-mum says:

05:00pm | 24/08/11

Sick of the BS,  i still stick to my opinon, this breed should be dimished, that way all these so bad owners cant breed them. For god sake some children can turn out bad but its not always due to the way parents brought them up, its the same with Pitbulls, they can have the best owners in the world, it wont make a difference these dog will always attack and kill with there powerful jaw.

Kaos says:

09:37pm | 20/08/11

I would love to know where you get your information from? Most owners are men from lower socioeconomic backgrounds… WTF? I am a highly educated female with an income over $150k, and I am owned by a pittie, and a staffie… I also have children. My girls were rescue dogs who have been trained properly and given all the love and attention they require. The Pitbull is one of the most mistreated and misunderstood animals in the world - it is the behaviour of the minority that has tarnished their reputation. The moment an attack is reported we have hundreds of “experts” that have no formal training or experience with this breed deeming them dangerous. It breaks my heart every time there is a dog attack… FULL STOP. Any dog attack, it just so happens any attack from a sizable dog with a meaty head is labelled a pittie.
Only education of the masses will allow this breed to lose it’s bad wrap.

Vader says:

07:03pm | 19/08/11

It’s irrelevant why the these dogs go feral and attack and kill. The simple fact is they do. Not one child is worth the risk for what is essentially and issue of taste. There are plenty of other dogs that make excellent pets that don’t have a horrible record of maming and killing.

Julie K says:

10:43pm | 19/08/11

@ VADAR
It is definately not irrelevant as to why they go ‘feral and attack and kill’ if they were treated poorly and neglected they are going to attack anything or anyone that resembles the fear that the poor dog went through.Working at a dog shelter has opened my eyes to so much of this, i have seen what neglection these poor babies are put through. its heartbreaking to see them treated so unfairly. I will admit there are some pitbulls that are agressive, there are also many other types of dogs that are agressive, in fact the agressive dogs so far at the shelter have been all but pitbulls. It has included husky’s, staffys, and few others. Pitbulls are so much overlooked and people dont understand how much love these babies have to give. I have been in one experience where pitbulls have almost killed my dog but i think it comes down to the owner and environment. How would you like to be neglected or living on the streets or in a confined cage.? quite simple you wouldnt.

Vader says:

08:37am | 20/08/11

Bullshit.

Not every attack is the responsibility of a bad owner. There are plenty of other dogs breeds that have bad owners who don’t attack and kill children on a regular basis.

And get this through your thick head. They are DOGS. People are more important than dogs, particularly children.

Not one child is worth the risk so that people can keep these vicious dogs. Ban them all, put down the ones we have, make the owners responsible with charges of manslaughter and GBH.

kimberley says:

01:59pm | 20/08/11

1) the owner didn’t secure the dog properly nor did the owner try to do anything to stop the attack other than call the dog.

2) the dog had escaped from where it lived, had threatened people in a front yard and then followed them inside and attacked the child.

3) just to reiterate the dog did not live where the child lived.

Vader says:

08:11pm | 20/08/11

Try tell these parents that having their child ripped apart by a vicious dog was just a “bad experience”.

Average Joe says:

12:44pm | 22/08/11

@ Lorna - you know, if you asked most of us asking for pitbulls to be banned, if we were willing to extend the ban to rottweilers, dobermans and other similar breeds, I believe you’d find the answer to be a resounding “YES!”

Kendaa says:

03:33pm | 22/08/11

Well Average Joe, that just proves what a fearful, ignorant, hysterical idiot you are

Vader says:

10:32am | 20/08/11

The issue isn’t that they can be good dogs some or even most of the time it’s the damage they do when they turn as they too often do.

bananabender says:

10:08pm | 20/08/11

A labrador has a bite force 34% lower than a human. It is very rare for a labrador bite to even break the skin let alone do any serious injury.

Vader says:

08:41am | 20/08/11

The are not a wonderful breed if they are liable to go crazy and rip children apart.

The best the owner could do is stand back and call it and hope because clearly they were too scared to step in.

“Anyway I dare anyone to come and try to kill my little Buddy, they will have to get through me first. I will protect him the same as he would protect me. “

Says it all really.

They are not a wonderful breed they are a menace.

Kaos says:

09:47pm | 20/08/11

You are an idiot.

Vader says:

12:19pm | 20/08/11

Speaking of facts, when was the last time a spaniel ripped the throat out of a child?

bananabender says:

08:42pm | 20/08/11

Stop talking crap .

Cocker spaniels are scared of their own shadows.

My cat gave a Chihuahua a thorough mauling.

meme says:

03:32pm | 21/08/11

I’m more wondering why so many dogs bite you? What on earth are you doing to them?

LISA says:

08:38am | 22/08/11

i have had 2 pitbulls attack my mini horse stallion and he is lucky to be here my vet said if he didnt kick them he would have been dead the other pony kicked one of them into bushes she is also lucky   they had a man baled up in his own back yar and killes a sheep and some pet rabbits which were owned by children so if the children were there they also might have been dead too they should not be allowed in our country my pony will have scares for the rest of his life and never to be shown again but wat about the poor children that have been killed my heart goes out to the parents i say put them all down .

Vader says:

04:31pm | 20/08/11

Your anecdotal experiences are irrelevant. The FACTS are that these dogs regularly turn and that the results of the attacks when they happen are disasterous.

There are plenty of other big breed dogs that are hardly ever involved in attacks, so the claim that it’s just because of the owners is clearly bullshit.

These dogs should therefore be outlawed and the owners made responsible for the attrocities they cause.

BTW. Your CHOICE is also irrelevant. We live under a rule of law. It’s illegal to keep Dingo’s domestically for pretty much the same reasons that pit bulls should be banned.

How many more children have to be mauled to death before people get some perspective? No number of dogs is worth ONE child!

marley says:

07:15pm | 20/08/11

@vader - and if the dog turns out not to be a pit bull, will you have the same opinion?

I’ve had people tell me my dog has some pit bull in him (he’s non-aggressive, by the way) so you’d probably want him euthanized.  The thing is, he’s got no pit bull or anything close to it in him - but just based on his appearance (stocky dog) if he ever did attack anyone, the pit bulls would probably get the blame.

And as to other big dogs,well, I can remember when German shepherds were regarded as a menace; huskies are always problematic; and rottweilers have a bad record as well. And of course, just because they’re such a popular dog, labs hold the record for dog bites, at least in North America.  To say that other big breed; dogs (and by the way, the pit bull isn’t all that big) are hardly ever involved in dog attacks is to ignore reality.

Vader says:

07:37pm | 20/08/11

Show me another breed that has the same record for vicious attack as the pit bull?

They’re breed to kill and fight.

If a vet says your dog has pit bull in it then off course it should be put down. Aggressive or not. That’s the fucking problem. Want to bet that the dog in question was considered by it’s owners as “non-aggressive” before it ripped the throat out of a child?

If rottweilers have the same record then they should suffer the same fate.

You can’t keep Dingos because they are dangerous so why do we allow other breeds that are just as dangerous? Breeds that have been breed to fight and kill!

Children are more important then dogs.

Sarah says:

04:27pm | 22/08/11

Lovely family pet - Yes!!!
do YOU personally know every pitbull? NO i didn’t think so, and i highly doubt you’ve even come across many in your everyday life, have you?
NOONE who is saying their pet is a loving family pet is trying to reflect the whole of the breed, we are just trying to prove that, if brought up correctly, these dogs are loyal, loving companions. Fighting breed? really, thats just a stereo type - yes these guys are strong strong dogs but it comes back to how they are treated and raised.
It’s not a right no, but it is a choice! - i believe if done properly this could be policed by the councils very easily.
don’t punish familys and dogs because of some stupid people out there who do not treat they’re animals right!! Destroy the people!!! - inhumane? maybe, but so would destroying these dogs be.
i myself own a supposed ‘fighting dog’ and he is more gentle and docile than any other dog i’ve known… why? because of proper time and training thats gone into him!!! Ignorance is bliss hey, people who have never really known one of these dogs are the ones fighting againsdt them. Get out there, meet a few, i BET you will find more placid friendly dogs than not!