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Employers should check your CV to the nth degree

Daniel Piotrowski

by Daniel Piotrowski

14 May 02:00pm

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Filed under: Cvs, Resumes, University, Work

49 comments

I graduated last Friday afternoon. Big ceremony in a great big new hall. Donned robes sporting my faculty’s blood-orange sash. And I got a little excited putting on one of those square hats.

Mr Thompson should go back to school. Picture: AP

Too excited. I chucked my hat up in the air a tad over-enthusiastically and smacked the guy behind me in the head trying to catch it. Whoops.

I’m sure Yahoo! shareholders are feeling the same way as that guy. The company’s new CEO, Scott Thompson, has resigned after it was exposed that he hadn’t attained a computer science degree at Stone Hill College as he had claimed. UPDATE 5:20pm: The Wall Street Journal is also reporting Mr Thompson was diagnosed with thyroid cancer before he resigned.

What Thompson did was a disgrace. The degree I finally got my hands on last week represented three years of hard work (as well as an obscene but productive amount of holidays). It’s an insult to his company and each and every computer science student at Stone Hill College.

But Thompson’s situation raises the question: how many employers actually go out of their way to check someone’s qualifications? Not too many, I’d say.

Everyone talks up their CV a little trying to get a job. But some people have a knack for selling themselves (or their over-priced and unnecessary car-cleaning product), and aren’t perturbed by the idea of claiming they’ve achieved something they haven’t.

A little more vigilance in the workplace wouldn’t hurt. Particularly with more people out and about claiming to have earned qualifications. The Federal Government has set a target for 40 per cent of 25 to 34-year-olds to attain a bachelors’ qualification by 2025 and there’s the feeling in the university sector that target is achievable.

I came into the office this morning to a celebratory bottle of Veuve courtesy of The Punch team. I’m sure there’s a hungover headache lurking at the bottom of it.

Thompson was offered a salary worth several thousand bottles of champagne. There’s been a mass migraine outbreak at Yahoo! HQ these past couple of weeks - all because they didn’t ask to see a couple of photocopied pieces of paper.

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49 comments

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    • AdamC says:

      02:08pm | 14/05/12

      It is a shame that this fellow dishonestly claimed to possess a qualification that he did not. It is a shame that he was appointed to the board of a fading, if high-profile, publicly-traded company. It is good that, belatedly, he has chosen to resign.

      It would be an even bigger shame if employers found themselves in a position to have to sight copies of academic transcripts and the like when selecting a candidate. Indeed, if a candidate has been in a particular industry for many years, even decades, it would seem almost ridiculous to insist on seeing copies of what they did at university. Still, I guess if you’ve been fooled once, etc ...

      Reply

    • Maree says:

      04:16pm | 14/05/12

      AdamC: Agree. I hate deception and this person got what he deserved. However, not sure how relevant an economics degree completed in 1981 is. Particularly if you have not used the information you have learnt. There is a great saying when interviewing a candidate for a new job. When the applicant starts crapping on about what they think they know, and trying to impress you with over rated colourfull “how wonderful how I am’ type statements. Stop them, and say, “do not tell me what you know, tell what you have actually done” !  Then ask to see documentary evidence of their employment successes.

    • Bertrand says:

      08:11pm | 14/05/12

      I’ve always had to show academic transcripts when applying for job and never thought anything of it.

      Why would it be a shame that employers have to do this?

    • AFR says:

      02:11pm | 14/05/12

      So, how do you propose employers go about it? Reference checks aren’t worth the paper they’re not written on, and any document/degree can be reproduced at home - you don’t even need to visit Khao San Road in Bangkok anymore to get a fake one make.

      Reply

    • marley says:

      02:25pm | 14/05/12

      Well, I dunno.  I had to do reference checks on some job applicants once, so I picked up this thing on my desk - I believe it’s called a telephone - and phoned people they’d worked for and the schools they’d attended. 

      It may not be foolproof, but it’s better than relying on a photocopy of a diploma. And sometimes, people say things over the phone they wouldn’t always say in writing.

      And BTW, I’ve been on the receiving end of those phone calls as well, so I know It’s a common practice.

    • Vince says:

      02:33pm | 14/05/12

      Not true, marley.  If someone is 20yrs out of university it is pretty much impossible to check to make sure they actually attended the universities they say they went to by a simple phone call, particularly if they went to university out of the country.  And then there is the Privacy Act.  Schools will simply not give you that information anymore.  I know, I tried.

    • Jennifer says:

      02:48pm | 14/05/12

      We are an executiev recruitment firm and we ask perferred candidates to sign statutory declarations that their Cv is true and correct and check directly with universities ourselves that they have received that degree. Can’t get past that

    • Jennifer says:

      02:48pm | 14/05/12

      We are an executive recruitment firm and we ask perferred candidates to sign statutory declarations that their Cv is true and correct and check directly with universities ourselves that they have received that degree. Can’t get past that

    • jennifer says:

      03:00pm | 14/05/12

      And Vince, we ask candidates to sign an agreement for us to check their qualifications independently

    • Vince says:

      05:06pm | 14/05/12

      The stat dec’s a good idea!  Hadn’t thought of that.  Will use it in future.  Only question is, what if they refuse?  Do they not get the job?  I assume so.  What if they sue you or the employer on the basis that you are not entitled to require a stat dec from them to get the job?  I don’t know if you are actually entitled to require that from somebody.  They may be perfectly within their rights to refuse to sign something like that.  Actually, now that I think of it, I wouldn’t necessarily sign a stat dec.  Do you know that is like swearing something to be true before a court of law?  What if there are minor errors or things which are incorrect that you didn’t know about?  It’s a helluva thing to ask someone to do.  Kind of starts off the employment relationship on a sharp note, don’t you think?

    • Spart says:

      08:17pm | 14/05/12

      Vince
      Good luck with that. Do you want my Internet log-ons and passwords as well?
      If you can’t reference check with two phone calls, you are not doing your job properly. But then most recruiters are just lazy database trawlers anyway.
      Spart

    • marley says:

      09:23pm | 14/05/12

      @Vince - no one has a statutory right to get a particular job.  If providing references and an authority for the prospective employer to check them out is against the job applicant’s principles, fine - but then the applicant should be prepared to accept the consequences.  The job application goes into the trash can, and the employer focuses on people he can check out.  As an employer, I like to know who I’m hiring and I’m not fond of people who aren’t comfortable enough with the CVs they’ve provided to allow them to be verified.

    • Inky says:

      02:15pm | 14/05/12

      Geez.

      It’s bad enough every job I go for needs me to turn up with my birth certificate or passport, plus 2 other forms of ID, at the interview, please don’t make me bring in qualifications as well.

      For starters, I’d have to actually chase up where my associate degree (in applied music) went. They said ceremony or mail out, I said just mail it, it never arrived and I never cared enough to chase it up.

      Perhaps at higher grade jobs, a certain amount of ensuring people aren’t lying on their resumes is important. But at the end of the day, if they can do the job, what does it matter where they studied?

      Reply

    • Scotchfinger says:

      02:24pm | 14/05/12

      suggest you chase up your papers, just to start the job interview on a high note - get it?

    • Sarahh says:

      02:28pm | 14/05/12

      Hmm yeah I don’t think you should flat out lie on your resume, but it’s a bit ridiculous if you can do the job despite not having a $30 000 piece of paper that it’s even an issue.  In a lot of fields I question the relevance and necessity of having a degree. 

      That said, congrats Daniel!

    • stephen says:

      06:22pm | 14/05/12

      A resume stating qualifications obtained is an indication of character - that you’ve started and finished something - and it also indicates your history ... that, say, you haven’t spent the last 5 years at boggo road.
      Your aptitude for a position will become apparent to a good boss very quickly, but to bullshit on a resume is bad form.
      If you feel that your schooling is not up to the job requirements, you might want to include a brief letter stating that you are willing to gain further educational qualifications as the position demands.

      And all performing arts jobs should require an audition ... and you can’t crap on there.

    • KH says:

      07:38am | 15/05/12

      You don’t bring the actual degree….........just the transcripts, and for a fee, you can get them reproduced by the university if you need them.

    • Scotchfinger says:

      02:18pm | 14/05/12

      I can’t believe I have been reading Daniel’s articles under the assumption that they were authored by a qualified journalist, said assumption now having been proven false. I have been discussing his opinions with all and sundry, putting my own reputation on the line. I may be seeking restitution of some kind, Mr Piotrowski; if that is indeed your name! How on earth did this get past Ms Maguire?

      Reply

    • fairsfair says:

      02:23pm | 14/05/12

      Congrats on your grad Dan!

      My ceremony represented three years of cruising. I am sure I picked up something over thee course, however it is not knowledge that would not have come from maturity over the same time and an entry level job in the workforce. I know heaps of people who are guns on the puteys and they have never received an iota for formal training. One in particular is running the IT division of a large mine with an office based in Mt Isa he is 28. 

      University is just a “going through the motions” thing for most people these days. So in short, I am not really outraged by this.

      We were not allowed to throw our hats at our Grad. I stupidly wore my hair down and my mirco fro was puffing out beneath it in a VERY unattractive fashion. I was also called to the stage directly after a classmate who had passed away in between finishing classes and the ceremony (I had never met them) so nobody clapped for me including my parents who don’t even remember sighting me crossing the stage (how they missed the hair I’ll never know).

      Reply

    • TrueOz says:

      02:46pm | 14/05/12

      “The Federal Government has set a target for 40 per cent of 25 to 35 year olds having a bachelors’ qualification by 2025…”

      And provided our universities keep developing course like Bachelors of Baby Sitting and other equally useless “degrees” that target will no doubt be achieved.

      Reply

    • M says:

      02:47pm | 14/05/12

      He may have lied, but was he doing his job competently?

      Reply

    • Dan says:

      03:27pm | 14/05/12

      Being a leader requires trust, so even if he was doing his job competently, you’d expect he’d be permanently compromised with staff and shareholders following these revelations.

      If you covered it up, it would be fraud….it alegedly already is.

    • Tanya says:

      02:48pm | 14/05/12

      I’m not sure that degrees in a lot of professions are of consequence to employers other than where liability rests with it - medicine or law for example. There’s a heavy reliance on references and experience rather than qualifications. I’ve had a number of positions where my degree has been a pre-requisite for the job but I’ve never been asked to produce it. This has been a good thing because I don’t know where it is.

      Congratulations on graduating, Daniel. It’s a great feeling!

      Reply

    • Scotchfinger says:

      03:02pm | 14/05/12

      let me guess - you did music?

    • Inky says:

      03:29pm | 14/05/12

      @Scotchfinger

      I hope not. No one advertises music gigs by having a degree as a pre-requisite. Ultimately music degrees are a chance to network and meet people as much as they are a chance to work on one’s musicianship.

      Which means they’re one of the few courses where concerntrating on studies to the exclusion of parties and nights out more or less results in a fail, despite what the paper may say.

    • Jax says:

      02:58pm | 14/05/12

      Well, a Computer Science degree is damn difficult (certainly not a ‘going through the motions’ course..  I’m not surprised he dropped out.

      Reply

    • sunny says:

      03:52pm | 14/05/12

      I did a Comp Sci subject “something something Algorithms”. It was the hardest subject ever invented by human kind. The text book was as thick as two phone books. The final exam allowed one notes sheet. I got just about the entire text book onto both sides of that goddamn sheet - it was literally black with writing. We had to turn in our notes sheet with the paper. I can picture the lecturer laughing his guts out when he saw it - he probably passed me just for the effort I went to and the laugh he got from it. But uni exams are normally merciless times of the year - I still hyperventilate when I think about them.

    • Bev says:

      06:20pm | 14/05/12

      @sunny Spare a thought for those who laboured to invent those algorithms.  When I started in computers there were no degrees in computer science.  We have to invent as we went along. Program in machine language, assembler, cobol and fortran.  No structured languages for us they came later along with libraries of routines.
      Exciting times!  Look up the median cut algorithm I was in on the ground floor on that one we agonized over the best way to quantize a colour pallette of 256 colours (all we had) from the large number of colours generated during rendering of early graphics.

    • Kika says:

      03:04pm | 14/05/12

      OMG! I can totally agree!
      Whilst I really love my team leader she really stuffed around when she promoted a chick in my team for no apparent reason other than she ‘asked for it’. When I asked on what basis did she select this colleague she said that she had a business degree… even though I held a degree much more relevant to our work. I told the team leader that this was BS because when I first met said colleague she admitted that she never finished and dropped out because it was boring and got herself married and pregnant.

      Said colleague shot herself in the foot sometime later when she admitted this again in front of the team leader at a casual team coffee.

      So I mean, yeah. People can make up anything on their CV’s. It’s up to the recruiters and managers to make sure these people actually do have the qualifications they say they do.

      Reply

    • Borderer says:

      03:57pm | 14/05/12

      I got a diploma in business at TAFE and worked for seven years, I then wanted more money so I went to uni for 6 years part time. I doubled my wage but didn’t feel particularly smarter, I did pay about 20k for that bit of paper though (even after upfront discount and tax deduction).
      From my own experience I can say that formal qualifications help you get more money but don’t necessarily make you good at your job. I can see why capable people may feel frustrated by this form of education discrimination and lie about their accomplishments, it doesn’t make it right though.

    • Kika says:

      04:57pm | 14/05/12

      Well I can tell you that my colleague was neither… she simply just asked for a promotion and got it, apparently. It wasn’t advertised either so nobody else got to put their case through as to why they should be promoted. She is a trained A grade suck up though - can talk her way through a wet paper bag. A new system we got highlighted who was doing what work and hers was evidently lagging by a long way.

      I’m lamenting over this. LAMENTING.

    • ibast says:

      03:42pm | 14/05/12

      We get CVs from one country in particular that are habitually suspect.  Firstly you really do have to question the qualification from their unknown regional university, even though it has been verified by an Australian professional association.  I suspect the professional association errs on the side of “yes” rather than “no”.

      Secondly the experience is mostly questionable.  They seam to have about 75 years worth of experience, despite being only 35 years old.

      I even had one instance where there was a whole paragraph out of a textbook copied into a personal objectives section.  You could even find it on the interweb.

      Reply

    • Sirro says:

      03:56pm | 14/05/12

      It is interesting that the blokes name is Thompson ....

      I’ve read a couple of articles on this and he claims that it was the Headhunter who attributed that degree to him and that he had said simply that he had a degree from the particular University (he did but it was in Accounting rather than Computer Science). Is it as bad to allow wrong information to go uncorrected as opposed to blatently lying from the start? I think yes but others may see a grey area there.

      Also interesting is that the guy loses his job almost instantly for this without a three and a half year inquiry yet his Aussie namesake is looking very likely to keep his job for another year because a couple of independants and a Prime Minister can’t see the wood for the trees.

      Reply

    • Schmavo says:

      04:10pm | 14/05/12

      Obviously uni degrees are useful. “...how many employers actually go out of there way….” Or should it be “their way”. One of many errors in the article.

      Reply

    • Caz says:

      04:39pm | 14/05/12

      I work with someone who lied about their degree and is in a position as a manager. They also lied about their experience and it is extremely obvious that they don’t have the skills or experience to be in their current position. What do I do though? Go above them and tell my boss that they lied on their resume and look like a bitter employee?

      Reply

    • Kate says:

      04:54pm | 14/05/12

      I graduated last year and didn’t get a bloody hat! I have gone back to uni to do a masters though and apparently can expect a hat at the end of this one.

      Reply

    • John says:

      05:08pm | 14/05/12

      They never check, I’ve stated to them would you like to see my diploma. I just wonder how many people have gotten interviews and jobs for lying on their resume. Then you could add work experience, you add so much lies, you would instantly get an interview.

      I being sincere, honest have found that that reality I’m giving them isn’t good enough, I sometimes wonder, if they expect you lie in order to rationalize them employing you. I think the cooperate world is filled with liars, and they being liars hire liars. Virtue and Honestly won’t get you a job. How do you think Bush, Clinton and Obama got to be president. It’s not how virtues you are, it how corruptible and lying you can be.

      Reply

    • Macca says:

      05:50pm | 14/05/12

      Kate Southam wrote the other day that 90% of employees who leave their employment in the first 6 months of a job do so of their own accord. Less than 10% of those who leave do so because they were dismissed during probation.

      To me, this says employers lie about the company, role, work environment, financial performance etc. much more than candidates lie about their experience.

      As for the merits of a Uni degree as a CEO; if he managed to bluff it that far he can probably do the job.

      Reply

    • TheOzTrucker says:

      05:54pm | 14/05/12

      People ask to see my degree and my grad dip all the time because they don’t believe I have them. like I said before I have not always been a truck driver.

      Reply

    • Centrelink Island says:

      06:01pm | 14/05/12

      Blood Orange Sash ? Have you graduated as a Mason ?

      Reply

    • NESLIHAN KUROSAWA says:

      09:07pm | 14/05/12

      Hi Daniel,

      I am assuming that congratulations are in order!  And you could consider yourself to be one of the lucky ones to actually get the job you have dreamed about most of your life, right? I am also guessing that you must have had the right connections or the sheer talent to be qualified for this job in the first place, no offence intended.

      I personally feel that your CV has to look presentable and polished with all your educational background details.  However, to land the perfect job you have dreamed about, we all need something more and very important. Which happens to be how we all present ourselves to the out side world, actual work experience as well as our confidence levels. Sometimes “it is just being at the right place at the right time”.

      It is very hard to believe that at this day and age, no one takes the time to do cross reference checks on CV’s anymore.  And does honesty truly pay?  I have had a lot friends teaching English as a second language overseas.  You know what?  Some of did not even have the right documentation to begin with. But they have all become very dedicated ESL teachers now. 

      Somehow I believe that it seems to be more about getting the kind of experience, first and then having to courage to apply for it. Having only a diploma does not make any one very dedicated teachers, doctors or nurses. Because I truly believe that you have to possess some kind of love and respect for what you do on a daily basis.  Kind regards to your editors.

      Reply

    • Christine says:

      08:39am | 15/05/12

      He didn’t lie.  He didn’t know that it was on the website until it was pointed out to him.  He resigned because he has thyroid cancer. 
      Why did you continue to allow people to be misled when you could have updated your article?

      Reply
    • Daniel Piotrowski

      Daniel Piotrowski says:

      09:56am | 15/05/12

      Not true. That’s what he said, but there is evidence to the contrary.

    • Robinoz says:

      01:44pm | 15/05/12

      Congratulations on graduating Daniel. In Queensland it was once (and probably still is) a criminal offence to claim a qualification that you do not hold, one that many of us spent late nights and years to acquire. I dislike people who claim to be something they aren’t, however, employers need to be more vigilant also and make sure there is no room for fraud. One of my employers did this by requiring that I have copies of my parchments posted to them by the universities I had attended. It seems that this approach is now increasingly necessary to prevent gifted amateurs and other pretenders from defrauding their employers.

      Reply

    • Daylight robbery says:

      03:23pm | 15/05/12

      What are they going to do about Zuckerberg? Not having his qualifications an all.

      I feel for you Daniel; you have some realities coming.  Unless you are a doctor,  engineer, accountant, architect, lawyer there is really no requirement for the piece of paper. 
      You don’t have to have a computer science degree to run Facebook. If you are not coping, paper or no paper your neck will go on a chopping block.

      Reply

    • Sam says:

      02:15am | 16/05/12

      Oh please… Employers are the biggest liars, topped only by politicians.

      “Competitive salary” without so much as a CPI adjustment,

      “fun environment” means you’re allowed to talk to your colleagues at 5pm on Fridays instead of get the hell out of there so you can see your real friends.

      “great culture” means there’s a couple of token Indians and other multiculturals to make you feel like you’re passing through Victoria market.

      “potential for growth” - that’s right it’s called “potential” for a reason,

      and then there’s the “training” myth - where the f##k does anybody get any training!

      Employers can suck my cactus. I’m a marine biologist!
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTi7VtrLL0k&feature=related

      Reply

    • Bill says:

      10:27am | 16/05/12

      No doubting it’s hard work to get a degree. But there’s also a lot people out there who have worked just as hard in other ways - paid or unpaid - and who are extremely capable, yet can’t get a look in for a job which they could easily do, just because they don’t have the piece of paper.
      There is no saying that the person with the paper has more talent and commitment than the person without. Personally I don’t have a degree and am higher up in my work than a few people who do. That’s because I’m a better communicator than they are. However, I have been told I won’t be considered for jobs higher up - jobs which I could do standing on my head - without a degree. The temptation to fabricate is very strong…

      Reply

    • John says:

      08:02pm | 16/05/12

      Congratulations Daniel !

      ...but I was inspired to write by the cheerful , and understandable, naiveity of your piece. You will be in the not too distant future someone responsible for checking cv’s or writing references, and it is a very imperfect art.

      Resumes and references for adults are taken with a grain of salt, no matter what HR agencies say. Once in you are in the door ( through a degree (probabaly unchecked by the employer) and a chatty interview, you have a few months to prove yourself, formally or otherwise. If you can do the job, great, if you can’t you will be politely eased out.

      And a great reference ?....it may be a way of an employer getting trouble off their hands as soon as possible.

      Reply

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      02:23pm | 29/05/12

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