Dude where’s my future - the myth of Gen Y apathy

Mick In The Hills says:

12:12pm | 17/11/10

And these days, 20-y-o blokes don’t have a 2 year stint in National Service looming over their precious careers.

So Max, harden the f*** up!

Molly Chambers says:

02:19pm | 17/11/10

As a fellow Gen Y-er I agree with most of the sentiments in this article. The only thing I take slight issue with is the gripes about salaries. Gen Y aren’t earning as much as older generations because we don’t have the experience to deserve the higher wages. We will eventually get there but having a degree doesn’t instantly give us the right to a $65k salary package. Every other generation had to, as you say ‘climb their way up the workplace ladder’ to get to the pay rate they are currently sitting it.

Moving on to the more important points. I am glad Max is trying to remove the ‘politically apathetic’ title from our generation. I personally am very interested in the governing of our country and I know most of friends are too. We are not apathetic, we care but it does occasionally seem futile when there are so few avenues for change and so little choice in political parties. I recently found myself at my very first federal election trying to figure out who the hell to vote for in this most momentous occasion. As a student not the coalition, as an environmentalist not labor - so the decision fell to the greens. I support almost all of the Greens policies but realistically I had to question where would a greens government leave our economy? I know there is never going to be a political party which magically fixes all the issues our country faces but is it too much to ask for a government which listens to the people and is open and honest about how it runs the country? (I know I’m asking a lot on that last point.)

To the people telling Max to get over it and to harden up - wouldn’t that be a move closer to apathy? Wouldn’t that actually make him the stereotypical lazy gen y-er? He is speaking up about issues he feels passionate about just like you probably did when you were younger. Let us have our so called ‘whinges’ just as you would have had yours at our age!

Daniel Emery says:

03:17pm | 17/11/10

Molly, Max was highlighting the disparity between the ratios of average salary to house prices of 1990 to 2010. He rightly points out that in 1990 the average house price was roughly 6.5 times the average salary, while in 2010, the average house price is roughly 8.7 times the average salary. House prices have risen at a disproportionate rate. He never said he expects gen Yers to earn as much as our more experienced elders.

Grumpy old bugger says:

04:42pm | 17/11/10

Max, I spent my 21st birthday digging and helping to man a gun pit in the service of the elected government of the day, in genuine fear for my life. I’m sure you believe you’ve got it all figured out from the air conditioned comfort of your great metropolitan newsroom; underpaid, information-overloaded and overworked as you say you are, but believe me you’ve actually still got a great deal to experience and assimilate before you’re even remotely qualified to hand out sweeping pronouncements on the ills of society. As for statements such as deforestation causing ‘irreparable harm to our planet’, maybe you should apply your vast knowledge of all things to explain to the teeming peasants of Africa, Asia and S America how to eke out better than a bleak subsistence from a protected forest, and exactly why they deserve a less expansive plasma appliance than you do. And never mind the peasants, I’m sure even we ignorant old bastards would like to hear and learn about that. I won’t be holding my breath however.

Gregg says:

02:45am | 18/11/10

Hey Molly
I think you solved your own dilemma if you read again what you wrote
” As a student not the coalition, as an environmentalist not labor - so the decision fell to the greens. I support almost all of the Greens policies but realistically I had to question where would a greens government leave our economy? “
It’s not just where they would leave our economy but what would that do for you and the nation.

When I read in one of Max’s opening paragraphs the words
” I am constantly raided with information about joblessness, climate change, rising house prices, incompetent government, racism, sexism, wars being waged apparently to protect me. “
I thought, yep, time to hug a tree and mind you I do love nature but rising populations are always going to place demands on resources and eventually more recycling, the extent of that happening in India, China and places like Nagos and other poverty stricken places being quite significant.
I think Max’s opening is very apt, with
” Entering a newsroom as an aspiring young journalist ,it can safely be assumed that even the most educated individual is naïve to the workings of the world. It could be said this never changes. “
And that is so true for not even hordes of people collectively can hope to have a complete understanding of the planet and its future.

As a climate change questioner and no doubt that our climate is changing constantly, I would challenge a true believer to not so much doubt the honesty of individual scientists for I imagine they are honourable people but envisage the vastness of the planet along with the many thousands of years of its existence, how our home was in prehistoric times as the planet cooled, all the volcanic activities and whatever else that caused the dinosaurs to perish and then ask how limited measurements can really predict what the future holds and whether what man does can really affect natures forces when we have so little capacity to control what nature does and we are very regularly over recorded history getting examples.

It is interesting that Max thanks Tony Abbott in part for the loss of our greatest moral challenge when it was just really Kevin 007 realising it was 010 .
But yes, thank Tony Abbott we should for being prepared to question and hold the poorest of governments to account for the spendthrift ways of the current and immediately past Labor governments are no way to engender a good future in difficult times.

All that money being borrowed has to be repaid with interest and we are lucky that as a country we have the resources like iron and coal that can help keep this country afloat and overtaxing it so resources from other countries effectively become a better deal will not help our economy and the borrowed money and the rising interest to be repaid is still going to be there.

We all may be more than a little naive to the full workings of the world but one thing for sure that is pretty well known is that it is money that keeps a lot of stuff ticking over and that means employment.
Continual borrowing will just lead to eventually worse unemployment and you only have to look at how the US are on a merry go around re people losing homes because of overcommitment and unemployment to see what the future holds if we keep going as we are.

So despite the lack of intelligence the independents have and not being too religious I reckon if Tony can get this NBN looming catastrophe halted in its tracks we should Cannonise him and have him as our next Saint without waiting for the next century to come about.

It may not get any better for you Max in that Labor electorate, so maybe you just have to move and broaden the mind a bit on how you can look at getting into real estate and some bright young people have started with next to zilch, probably do without more than a few nights out on the turps and recovering with lattes and have been committed to doing something

Alistair says:

07:12am | 28/11/10

Wow. Some of the comments here make it sound like there are no 18 to 20 year olds serving in Afghanistan. I would suggest to those that there are many Gen Y’ers doing the “hard stuff” in foxholes. Not only that, there are kids just starting highschool now that have been promised by our PM that they to can serve in Afghanistan because “we are there for the long haul”.

Drachir says:

12:59am | 23/11/10

I find it ironic that the blame for high international investment and ownership in Australia is being apportioned to the ALP. NO Australian Govt has protected this country from foreign investment. Pig Iron Bob (Nationalist Party and founding member of the Liberal Party) wanted Australia to be like Britain so much so that when they wanted to test nukes he gave them free slather to test here. He is also credited for his govt giving us the first recession after WWII, so no-one in govt can lay claim to perfect governance.

How much of Queensland is foreign owned? Sir Jo Bjelke-Petersen (Country Party)ruled as a near godling for 19 years and actively encouraged foreign ownership. Anna Bligh (Labour) is selling off state assets right now.

Take a look at the shelves in your local supermarket and compare the number of Aussie owned and/or manufactured items against those that are not. Hands up who remembers Allens Lollies before Nestle bought them out. Arnotts Biscuits before they were bought out? The lack of Aussie ownership can also be laid at the feet of the shareholders looking for a fast buck. I wonder how old those shareholders were and whose interest they were looking after?

The Australian Govt, no matter what flavour, is always looking to curry favour with those that get them/keep them where they are, so ask your self whose interests they really serve. Give me any government with backbone and foresight beyond the next election and they will be worth getting behind.

As for the current Govt not having any policy worth the paper, I admit that once Tony took over leadership (what happened to the other bloke?) at least the opposition in the last term had a policy you could rely on ..... to say “No!” to everything the Govt proposed no matter the merit. My two year old had that same policy but has at last out grown of it, as for the opposition we will just have to wait and see. Cheers!

BT says:

08:52am | 17/11/10

Yes, life is hard, particularly when government policy is stacked so heavily in favour of one segment of the population.The website for the University of Melbourne found that “Wealth is strongly associated with age. The median wealth of 55–65 year-olds was $444,000 compared to $8000 among 18–24 year-olds”. The younger generation simply can’t compete in the market due to factors beyond their control. And before all these self congradulating baby boomers smugly deride those who cannot afford their own home, realise that your tax dollars are paying for the increased demands on welfare your greed is creating.

Sherlock says:

09:59am | 17/11/10

I’m sorry but is this some sort of joke where I’m missing the punchline” Those over 55 have significantly more wealth than those aged under 24.

Well duh!

Let’s see. At 18 I had just finished school and hardly had a dollar to me name. Three years of uni later I wasn’t much richer (no HECS though so I did have an advantage compared to today) then I started work received a wage and used part of it to create wealth.

The older I grew the longer I had investing and the more assets I acquired and don’t forget inflation.

To say it’s unfair because older people own more assets is simply moronic

BT says:

11:10am | 17/11/10

Sherlock by name but not by nature. You don’t seem to get it. Policies such as immigration and tax breaks for the rich have forced younger generations out of any hope of providing themselves with security. With a housing crisis and low unemployment and the pressure this places on welfare, an aging population that has created such a divide that the younger generation cant afford to have the children required to look after them in say the healthcare industry when they come of age, the breakdown in those young families who have to travel long distances to get to work because they had to buy out in the sticks to get a foot in the housing market -the structure of society starts to break down. You get higher taxes, more crime and lower standards of living for everyone. You can’t seem to grasp that the older generation are shooting themselves in the foot by their own short sighted greed. It’s bad policy for everyone.

marley says:

03:01pm | 17/11/10

BT - I’m sorry, but how does “low unemployment” contribute to any of the ills you describe?  Surely, low unemployment means better job opportunities and better security, not less, for Gen Y?

And of course I (a boomer) have more assets than my Gen X and Gen Y relatives - I’ve worked the better part of 40 years to accumulate them. 
And as a result of that 40 years of work and investment, Gen Y is not going to be funding my retirement. 

Do I think changes need to be made to the tax system?  Damn right. I’d like to see a flat tax rate, the removal of negative gearing, and the elimination of things like baby bonuses. 

But the thing I’d like to see most of all is Gen Y to stop complaining and start doing something about its issues.  Forty years ago, boomers were organizing against the Vietnam war, and organizing for environmentalism.  In the USA, boomers were the infantry troops of the civil rights movement.  And their pressure on all these fronts brought change.  Not all the change we’d have liked, but change nonetheless.

So get to it, Gen Y.  Start moving and shaking things.  Pick your cause and organize.  Do something about it.

BT says:

03:48pm | 17/11/10

@Marley, I meant low employment - simply made a mistake as I was thinking of unemployment at the same time. I disagree with your flat rate tax system, which would mean that the rich pay a hell of a lot less tax when they should be paying more. I am not saying that it is unrealistic to expect that an older person should have accumulated more, of course that will happen and no one is denying that. What I am saying is that it is just as important to look after the needs of the younger generation as it is the older generations, and that means providing stability in regards to housing and employment, which means yes, you go without your 50 investment properties so I can own one home. As it stands now, the younger generation are working harder than you ever did just to make ends meet, with no prospect of reward. No wonder there is a brain drain overseas. We aren’t asking to be rich, just have a stable life. That means a more fair, equal and stable economy and quality of life for all.

marley says:

06:59pm | 17/11/10

@BT - since you don’t know me, I doubt you can say you or anyone is working harder than I did.

And I don’t own 50 investment properties, I own one - rented out to a single mom who couldn’t possibly afford to buy a house of the caliber she rents - but she takes damn good care of it and has been our tenant for the better part of 10 years.  So back off on that one.

And you still haven’t addressed my fundamental point - if you want major changes - be it to the tax system or anything else, why the hell aren’t you trying to organize and do something about it?  Why are you relying on me to do it for you?

Paranoia says:

08:56am | 17/11/10

Me too, BT.  Add into that the increased mining, pollution (toxic substances as well as rubbish and air pollution) it just doesn’t seem worth living.  It certainly doesn’t seem worth protesting… if, out of 200 thousand people in a town, only 4 care about the toxic substances which will be brought in (or are already being brought in) let ‘em have the stuff, I say…

Anna C says:

10:22am | 17/11/10

I know how you feel BT.  In the last 10 years I have seen my quality of life go down considerably.  Life now seems like daily weekly struggle just to keep my head above water financially and I blame it all on over population and the lack of decent infrastructure.  Houses have become too expensive,  constant traffick congestion, longer waiting times to access services, high immigration, too much foreign investment etc etc.  I find myself whingeing all the time about things that didn’t bother me before.  There are a lot more people now and you feel like you are constantly competing with them for houses, services etc.  I feel betrayed that I may never own a home (even a small one).  Not happy Jan!!!!

michael j says:

08:42pm | 19/11/10

hey i agree with all that you have said and feel the same way at times ,,got a wakeup call off a doctor ten years ago youre on a down hill slide now,,why,,you are well past middle age,,i though f,,k where did that go?most of what i had is gone through ill health,help the kids out where and when i can,,dont know where the bullshits going to stop but regardless i know i have to wait for the end of the ride,,best of luck

Adam Diver says:

08:06am | 17/11/10

Firstly Pers that is 3 points. But despite that petty dig, I actually whole-heartedly agree with you.

I am Gen Y as well and to be honest the labels are fairly useless, but I notice the young ones think they see injustice in the world that no-one else sees or that they have an obvious solution/vision which no one else has had. I learned quickly that almost everyone has thought this way, these thoughts are not unique and they are barely even insightful. Its a tough day when you learn that your infinite wisdom has been thought before, tried before and failed before, and that you are just too ignorant to of realised this fact.

Max you want to do the austrailan public a favor. Get off your philosophical soap box and do some investigative journalism, something clearly missing in our media these days. There are way too many grey areas in life particularly in public office.

notsurprised says:

12:16pm | 18/11/10

Persephone your statement “...not only is the State a complete basket case but it is entirely inhabited by whingers.”, is that an admission of ALP miss-management and ineptitude, after all guess who we have to thank for the last 15 years? Why is it that many southerners can’t seem to lose that chip on your shoulders about Sydney? Is it because you don’t know what a proper beach looks like?

fairsfair says:

09:44am | 17/11/10

I’ll second that Biteme as a gen y. I just don’t understand why we are so concerned by other people, their actions and their lifestyle - over our own. It is just insanity and I wonder where it will take us or should I say how long it will take to ruin us.

Like gay marriage - FFS - lets move on please. It is a word. Yes I relate it to between a man and a woman in a religeous and historical context but I am sick of hearing about it and don’t care abou it so strongly that I feel it warrants continued air time. The gays either need to just let it be and stick with civil unionism (which is more than a lot of others have) or we just need to legistlate it and get on with it. It is hardly a pressing issue and there are far bigger fish to fry.

Damian Parkhill says:

09:27am | 17/11/10

Oogy I think you have it the wrong way around - I don’t mean that we are just frustrated with no-one doing anything, so we went “meh” and stopped caring. I think he means that a lot of issues exist and that people have tried to do stuff, but the powers that would be can’t be stuffed (or not willing) to do anything about it, leading to a feeling of helplessness that the system can not be changed.

Let me give you a couple of examples.

Work Choices - When the work choices legislation was purposed I though to myself “Removal of work place law and the removal of penalty rates? yep this isn’t going to end well” So I lodged my opinion when the changes went to review, Now despite over 80,000 opinions being lodged and a considerable effort by the unions to stop the legislation going through, it was still passed with no modifications. Which in turn meant that me as a fully qualified baker along with other bakers have and continued to earned well below what the “average person” of $65k is meant to be earning (I earn less than $45k a year and that’s working from 2am in the morning) . In addition the abuse I’ve copped from a number of employers over the last 4 years has seen me quit 4 jobs because I’m not willing to work up to 10+ hours of unpaid overtime a week and could not keep up with production quotas that would increase by nearly 200% overnight while managers refuse to put on more staff. (and 2 of them ironically were Coles and Woolworths the two “best” employers to work for - or so they claimed)..

Internet filtering - As a night shift worker I’ve become dependent of the internet as a means of communication, entertainment, keeping up with current events and shopping.

Now that idiot Conroy wants to slap a filter on it banning all content that is considered RC, which he wrongfully (and knowingly) claims is illegal to view (RC content is legal viewing in the privacy of your own home). Now while I along with most other Australian’s agree that some effort should be made to crack down on the truly illegal content (Child porn) I don’t agree with the fact that almost anything on the net can be considered RC and filtered at the discretion of ACMA through the use of a secret black list that includes pages such as wiki-leaks.

So I tried to do my part…....

I signed partitions, followed the “No clean feed” campaign, mailed both Conroy and my local representative. And have yet to hear a single thing back….....

In the meanwhile the Filter is going ahead seemingly no matter what people try to do to stop it. 

It’s things like this among many -many- others that makes you think “why do I even bother trying to make a change when the “man” will always win regardless” and no matter what people try and claim, repeating yourself 100 times to get someone to listen when they didn’t the first 100 isn’t going to work and doesn’t mean that the complainant isn’t trying hard enough, all it means is that there are people in this world that are extremely ignorant and will get things their way no matter what you try and do about it.

Damian Parkhill says:

09:28am | 17/11/10

Oogy I think you have it the wrong way around - I don’t mean that we are just frustrated with no-one doing anything, so we went “meh” and stopped caring. I think he means that a lot of issues exist and that people have tried to do stuff, but the powers that would be can’t be stuffed (or not willing) to do anything about it, leading to a feeling of helplessness that the system can not be changed.

Let me give you a couple of examples.

Work Choices - When the work choices legislation was purposed I though to myself “Removal of work place law and the removal of penalty rates? yep this isn’t going to end well” So I lodged my opinion when the changes went to review, Now despite over 80,000 opinions being lodged and a considerable effort by the unions to stop the legislation going through, it was still passed with no modifications. Which in turn meant that me as a fully qualified baker along with other bakers have and continued to earned well below what the “average person” of $65k is meant to be earning (I earn less than $45k a year and that’s working from 2am in the morning) . In addition the abuse I’ve copped from a number of employers over the last 4 years has seen me quit 4 jobs because I’m not willing to work up to 10+ hours of unpaid overtime a week and could not keep up with production quotas that would increase by nearly 200% overnight while managers refuse to put on more staff. (and 2 of them ironically were Coles and Woolworths the two “best” employers to work for - or so they claimed)..

Internet filtering - As a night shift worker I’ve become dependent of the internet as a means of communication, entertainment, keeping up with current events and shopping.

Now that idiot Conroy wants to slap a filter on it banning all content that is considered RC, which he wrongfully (and knowingly) claims is illegal to view (RC content is legal viewing in the privacy of your own home). Now while I along with most other Australian’s agree that some effort should be made to crack down on the truly illegal content (Child porn) I don’t agree with the fact that almost anything on the net can be considered RC and filtered at the discretion of ACMA through the use of a secret black list that includes pages such as wiki-leaks.

So I tried to do my part…....

I signed partitions, followed the “No clean feed” campaign, mailed both Conroy and my local representative. And have yet to hear a single thing back….....

In the meanwhile the Filter is going ahead seemingly no matter what people try to do to stop it. 

It’s things like this among many -many- others that makes you think “why do I even bother trying to make a change when the “man” will always win regardless” and no matter what people try and claim, repeating yourself 100 times to get someone to listen when they didn’t the first 100 isn’t going to work and doesn’t mean that the complainant isn’t trying hard enough, all it means is that there are people in this world that are extremely ignorant and will get things their way no matter what you try and do about it.

Oogy says:

11:19am | 17/11/10

Are you aware of all the hardships that the previous generations had to endure to allow us have the rights that we have today?  Can you equate what the Suffragettes did for their cause to signing a pre-filled Internet petition, sending an e-mail and reading a webpage?  Conviction and determination has been replaced with apathy and self-centredness.

WorkChoices and the Internet Filter are both terrible ideas, but that have been implemented/will be implemented by the government in power.  Use your vote wisely, and advise your friends to do the same to ensure you do as much as you can to get what you want.

Adam Diver says:

09:24am | 17/11/10

Consensus equals facts don’t you know

MarK says:

01:48pm | 17/11/10

“Adam Diver says:

09:24am | 17/11/10

Consensus equals facts don’t you know”

I propose we set up a committee to see if we get consensus on this.

Oogy says:

09:51am | 17/11/10

There was no suggestion from me that he should join a political party, let alone one of the major political parties.  That is one possible avenue to be explored, but there’s also numerous other ways of contributing (protesting, researching and offering real solutions, writing constructively).

This article attempts to justify apathy for Gen Y.  There’s no justification for getting frustrated and giving up.  If you want action, you have to work hard for it and try to make it happen… and even then it might not work. 

It’s easy to whine about something on a blog, but it’s a little more difficult to actually go and do something about it.

This article should be pre-fixed with: 

Max Mason just ate a sandwich.
Mood: Sad

Randall says:

10:44am | 17/11/10

Apologies Oogy, that comment about joining a political party was made above yours.

But I still don’t agree that he is trying to justify apathy. It sounds like we are the ones who are interpreting apathy from Gen Y even though they are actively trying to take part. Is journalism not the 4th estate where one can undertake political participation? It seems this website would be a healthy avenue to air, yes the article is a little harsh, but has some validity.

Adam Diver says:

12:03pm | 17/11/10

I made a petty dig at persephone, and did not reprimand her for making a petty dig. I try not be hypocritical in the single post at least.

It may be an opinion piece, but that is exactly my point. I dont want another “educated” journalist giving me the same opinion spouted over again simply because they can.
Christ max himself pretty much places a massive disclaimer on his own opinion and knowledge

“Entering a newsroom as an aspiring young journalist ,it can safely be assumed that even the most educated individual is naïve to the workings of the world”

I think Oogy got it spot on this opinion could of been a tweet

persephone says:

01:09pm | 17/11/10

Randall

didn’t tell the poor boy to join one of the majors.

And writing an opinion piece which took him an hour (tops) is scarcely engaging in politics.

Maybe politicians aren’t listening to him because he hasn’t anything particularly remarkable to say.

Adam

Me ? Petty? Never!!

Adam Diver says:

02:29pm | 17/11/10

@ perse, I was petty not you. I did well explaining this clearly obviously I should join Max on the sideline with things to say that nobody clearly gives a sh** about

persephone says:

04:48pm | 17/11/10

Sorry, Adam!

Not only can’t I count, I can’t read either.

I’m a lost cause, I’m afraid.

Steph says:

05:54pm | 19/11/10

And short of creating a mob at Parliament gates (Which is illegal, by the way), how do you propose to do that? We can make as much noise as we like, but the government is still going to shrug and do what they want because we have no power to back up our protestations. The only trump card we hold over them is they want to be re-elected every term and need our support for that, but usually a promise of a payout gets the masses attention right before voting time. It’s like throwing a peanut butter sandwich over your shoulder to distract the troll while you run hell for leather. Once they’re in power and the masses have their cheque, it’s right back to where we are.

What would be good is a party willing to listen to the people. Hold votes over major issues. Take notice over the current woes of the public and act accordingly. Try to make the country a better place while listening to the will of the public and the issues they raise. Not, as the current government is doing, staying in power by doing things that look good on paper and make it so they have done *something* while in power, thus deserve another term, but really have messed about so they can keep their jobs.

As a Gen Y I would LOVE to put my issues forward to the community to have them heard. Problem is, No two people agree on the same thing and I could stand in the City Center and yell my lungs out, but at the end of the day, people’ll just call me a nutcase and yell about how I’m wrong and they’re right. In a way this is leverage the government holds over us, because while we (the public) are in two minds about everything, they can claim to make the final decision and put an end to the speculation and debate. If we could agree on something long enough to take it to Parliament and make it law, then maybe we can be relied on to change society, but we never can. Bring up an issue in the polls and most of the time it’ll come back with a near 50/50 result.

The question is can we, as a country - as people of a country - stand firm on the issues we feel the most about and come to an agreement long enough to act on it?

fairsfair says:

09:54am | 17/11/10

Makes sense because I genuinely believe that something has to change. Though having purchased my first home on a single income in 2009 because I was told “I had to get in now before prices explode” - I will be a bit dirty if my $230k sh*tbox is only valuded at $150k next year. Thems the breaks though I suppose. Life is all about rolling with the punches.

Markus says:

12:27pm | 17/11/10

Biteme that is my current course of action.
Rather than complain about it, I have been living in a sharehouse with 4 other people for years now, putting all the money I save into term deposits and stock (unfortunately missed the chance to buy bank shares in ‘09 when prices plummeted).
At some point the bubble will burst and I will hopefully be in a prime position to reap the benefits.
Any person (without kids) waiting around for the government to help them will be waiting a long long time.

@fairsfair I’d kill to find a sh*tbox that cheap in Canberra!
Even an old 3 bedroom place here costs around $400,000, while anything smaller would be either recently built or be right in the CBD so would go for $360,000 minimum as well.

fairsfair says:

04:16pm | 17/11/10

Totally agree on the non-kids thing! That said though, I don’t think the world owes me anything. I saved my $900 stimulus money and I’d gladly give it back to K-Rudd tomorrow on principle.

I know I am quite lucky, but I am university educated and have a job that pays $40k per year and my home is a 2br 92m2 duplex. Unemployment here in Cairns is around 10% and I can’t see me cracking the $50k mark within the next few years - it is a sad state of affairs up here in terms of the job market.

You can get a crappy 3br 1bth house here in the dodgy burbs (ex rental so it needs the flame thrower treatment and another $20k) for about $290k. New houses are at least $350-$400k here and are on about 500m2 of land. I can’t believe how expensive it is up here for the wages we earn and the general cost of living. Economic matters aside, the lifestyle is fantastic (excluding November through to March) and we have Bob Katter - so all is ok

I hope you get into something you call your own soon, because I don’t care what people say - there is nothing like the feeling of driving in your own driveway and knowing that you own something. Even if you only have a tenuous grip on it or it is a sh*tbox - it is yours. It is worth the stress of the mortgage roller coaster but hey - if you don’t want to get on the ride fix your rates or sell up and rent - every option has its pluses and minuses. In terms of my own interests - if the bum drops out of the market - so be it. My view is that rent money is dead money, the investment is longterm and I am prepared to wait for it right itself if it happens. It might take ages, but nobody has control over it - so there is no point me worrying about it.

Shifter says:

03:19pm | 17/11/10

@ Grumpy - This is true, however I’d suggest the reason behind it is successive governments don’t want upset certain sections of voters. To equalise, reform, or otherwise fix things, or implement the change you suggest governments would need to take away certain benefits that people already have.

Due to greed, people generally don’t want to give these things up even if it would benefit society as a whole. Sterotyping, a lot of these greedy people would tend to be the more well off, the more powerful and possibly even a large proportion of the voting population.

You could further this by saying that the governments do not reform by taking away, but by adding more. In recent times Labor has done this by spending more to give $900 to the ‘poor’, and looking add more taxes to increase it’s own revenue.

There’s a lot of other generic examples you could think of out there.

Markus says:

12:34pm | 17/11/10

You’re going on the assumption that Max is talking about newly built places.
In many cases it is a resale of a place that was built 20-30 years ago, still sporting all the same vinyl and asbestos as it did when built, but now being sold at a much higher price proportionately.
(on that note, I never understood how vehicles depreciate in value but a house goes up in price as much as it does, despite receiving just as much wear and tear).

SF says:

01:51pm | 17/11/10

I think I can help on that one Markus - houses appreciate because in most cases a large proportion of the price is tied up in the land value. Hence, with land in Sydney being an increasingly scarce resource, simple supply vs demand sees prices continue to rise.

Tom says:

03:00pm | 17/11/10

Very simple really. The majority of the price of a house is the land value, not the building itself. Even the same house, un-renovated, in any major Australian city would today be considerably more expensive relative to wages than it was 10, 20 or 30 years ago.

And Markus, we aren’t in danger of running out of iron, aluminium etc. any time soon - hence we can keep making new cars. We can’t make new land in desirable areas.

BT says:

12:49pm | 17/11/10

Well if you feel you are so well off and younger generations have nothing to complain about, don’t expect me to help you through your retirement. I will vote against the removal of the seniors card, centrelink aged pensions, Medicare and the like. Wake up. The older generation NEEDS the younger generations to have a secure future or YOU miss out in later years. The younger generation hears your calls of “get over it, we did it hard too” (even though wage rates etc prove this to be false) and we will say the same thing to you when you are struggling to pay for your medical expenses and screaming that you need help. What goes around comes around.

Tom says:

03:09pm | 17/11/10

I don’t know about Austudy, but to get Youth Allowance I had to take a year off before uni and earn 18 grand. Now you have to work an average of 30 hours a week for 18 months.

As for interest rates, 17% of $187K is $31 790, 7.5% of 570K is $42750, so that is a weak argument too. The fact is that it is far harder to afford a house today than it was even 10 years ago. You also forget that very few people would have been paying anything like an average of 17% over the course of an average 25 year loan - even if they started in the late 1980s, whereas plenty of people will be paying an average of 7 or so percent over the course of their loan.
All the first home owners grant did was to push prices up and further inflate the housing bubble, so no, that isn’t an advantage either.