Tune in, drop out, get drunk, become a hairdresser

Rationalist says:

07:14am | 17/07/09

Solution: stop subsidising wastes of time (ie. arts and most of humanities).

That is where all the communists and other gits are.

paul says:

07:53am | 17/07/09

Yes, the arts and social sciences have lost their way as academic disciplines. Choose Sciences, Engineering, Professions or Health Sciences and have a great career (I consult to Universities and drinking has definitely declined because people are either studying or working their butts off in a cafe to pay the bills)

T.C. says:

07:55am | 17/07/09

Where the heck do you get 49,678 one-night stands from 700,000 university students?

My calculations has it at least 21,000,000 one-night stands in the last year, and rising.

Niall says:

08:04am | 17/07/09

If there is a real communist left in Australia, I’d like to meet them. What brand of ideology is ‘other git’? What do they stand for?

Eric says:

08:25am | 17/07/09

Rationalist has it right. Most of the “humanities” serve no other purpose than left-wing indoctrination. They’re a waste of money for both taxpayers and students.

Our universities could be greatly improved if the worthless half or so were simply dropped.

It’s interesting to note, as an aside, that only 45% of university students are male, and the proportion continues to fall. Why is nothing being done about this gender inequity?

ronald reagun says:

08:39am | 17/07/09

I would go further than Dani suggests. The quaint ‘‘campus’ style universities should only operate in the fields of Engineering, Mathematics, Physics and Chemistry. All of the other courses, including medicine, should be on-line courses using formattings by the best teachers of the subject in the English speaking world,  with facilities for the practical aspects of each course at TAFE style facilities, hospitals etc. With ALL exams marked by experts in the field in the USA, Canada or Britain, ONLY. The HECS savings would be substantial. The ‘campus life style’ savings would be monumental. The Professors would be aghast. And not many would do an Arts degree in Chinese Studies at the ANU. And the kids could study from home 24/7.

realto says:

08:48am | 17/07/09

I have alternative advice for the lost teenager finishing high school - do a trades course instead, spend several years working at it and saving while you get a clue, and when you’re tired of being up to your armpits in poo, grease or hair (depending on the trade you’ve chosen’, go and do part-time uni instead. It’s harder than the full time thing described in the article but you might come out of it with real career prospects.

Nick says:

08:53am | 17/07/09

Universities need to stop offering ‘degrees’ in interior design and other such wastes of time (i.e. arts, economics and other social sciences.) Universities should only offer useful courses like; Engineering, Medicine and Law, everything else is a waste of our tax dollars.

zapper says:

08:54am | 17/07/09

Most Australian universities aren’t even real universities, rather a vocational college thanks to Howard’s dumbing down of the education system. We need all traditional discplines to be represented in universities and only those who love to learn should be accepted. There is nothing wrong with humanities either, this is coming from a science graduate. University is there to teach people to think and all thought processes (from Sciences to Arts) is valid. The real purpose universities is to provide education, not jobs. So why doesn’t the government really invest money in TAFE colleges and universities and keep the distinction between the two institutions separate instead instead of maintaining these dumbed down universities.

zoltan says:

08:59am | 17/07/09

It’s okay Eric, males still make up the majority in worth while courses like law, medicine, economics and engineering.

James says:

09:02am | 17/07/09

The majority of university courses are a complete waste of time. University was designed to be post graduate not UNDER-graduate. Its not BIG Business.

Nosurprise says:

09:04am | 17/07/09

Humanities degrees should come with a career warning like what you dad would have told you when you signed up for an Arts degree… Snap out of it and study something thats going to get you a job!

Chris says:

09:09am | 17/07/09

Try going to university in China. There’s a huge swing away from education there now. Students complete their Masters and the only employment opportunities available to them are basic service industry jobs. Jobs which place them at a lower middle income.
Many are seeing the idea as a bad joke and not even bothering.

Sheree says:

09:11am | 17/07/09

How many university students do you actually know?
I am a Psychology student, with a discipline in Sociology (one of those “social sciences and humanities” subjects), and my university experience is nothing like what you describe.
In fact, most of my friends and I are nothing at all like what you have described - the stereotypical university student, who serves no function but to make the “grown up” feel superior.

I resent the notion that we are all hard-partying communists, who waste four years of our lives drinking and sleeping around. I, like my friends, very rarely drink during a university term. I am in a committed, monogamous relationship, and we are working towards our future together. I’m learning a lot from the subjects I’m doing, and what’s more I’m enjoying it. I’m grateful for this opportunity I have received.
I find it disgusting that you would suggest that university is a waste of time - don’t project your lack of self-worth onto students who are actually passionate, hard working and dedicated.
Hairdressers are, according to the ABS, the lowest-paid professionals in Australia (coming in below check-out operators). I, personally, would rather pursue a career that doesn’t involve sweeping others’ hair off the floor and washing people’s filthy heads. Instead, I’m going to be doing a job I am passionate about, that I am qualified to do, and I am working hard to make my way there.

Shame on all of you for your near-sighted assumptions. Perhaps try one of these “soft” arts subjects, and I think you’ll be surprised about a) the lack of Communist leanings and b) the difficulty. Perhaps try working two part-time jobs, while raising a child and still doing university as some of my friends are. Our subjects require about 40 hours of studying per week - that’s a full time job in itself.
Furthermore, try removing these “soft” educated individuals from society. Where would you be without psychologists? What would we know about the world we live in without these social researchers?

I am truly disgusted.

Medicine and Law graduate says:

09:12am | 17/07/09

Hey, if you wasted your time at uni because you were lazy and useless (never completing texts, half-arsedly making your way through the curriculum) then snaps for you. Quit feeling sorry for yourself - you didn’t make an effort, therefore, you have a crappy ‘degree’. You thoroughly deserve your mediocre ‘career’.

Chris says:

09:15am | 17/07/09

You tossers the arts and social sciences is useful in that you only need bare minimum entry marks UAI score to get in then once your done you can move to another degree like law or something, instead of 4-6 years with a mixed degree of arts/science. F*** that, go the arts, “P"s get degrees, then you move up the ladder, there are much hotter females in teh Arts Social Sciences anyway, last time i looked over at the science degrees there was only chicks that couldnt speak english and segregated themselves. We need the humanities to maintain the sex status quo at Uni, take that away then its another hell hole like a private school. GO THE HUMANITIES!!

ILR says:

09:16am | 17/07/09

Niall, the question is whether there is anyone who still admits being (or ever been) a communist.  Just as it is impossible to find anyone who will still admit to going down to the docks in the ‘60s and ‘70s to spit on returning Vietnam vets.

ED says:

09:17am | 17/07/09

Eric I think that gender inequity may have something to do with the crapload of money males make once they are qualified in a trade?
In fact I think you would find that if you looked at trades the inequity would go much farther in the opposite direction..

Jo says:

09:18am | 17/07/09

A humanities degree might not have an obvious career path but I found my course more enlightening than any of my economics (read ‘real career’) friends found theirs. You can’t put a value on a course that challenges you to think and care beyond your own earning potential.

Eric: “only 45% of university students are male, and the proportion continues to fall” - is this a national stat? I found this to be the case in cities but thought there were more males at country universities. As Daniela suggests uni is not the only path but worth considering that many males might be missing out on opportunities.

Stormin_Norman says:

09:20am | 17/07/09

you must have had a terribly boring time at uni. i did think large thoughts. i did sit on the lawn discussing them. and my appreciation for a nice drink comes from having to afford such terrible ones.

PT says:

09:22am | 17/07/09

Hey and while we’re at it, can we PLEASE rid ourselves of the useless, pretentious bragging-rights fest that is publishing university ranking scores? (OP’s in QLD, TER’s & ENTER’s elsewhere). They serve NO purpose other than allowing:
a) those who fluke top scores the right to self-pleasure over them and
b) schools to milk their past ‘success’ for decades in order to bump their enrolments (and therefore their funding percentages) for many years hence.

Fortunately, I have not seen the former ‘first hand’ - nor do I wish to - but I DO know of a few public schools here in Queensland that have done - and continue to do - the latter! Those scores serve NO guide to a schools performance for any year other than when they were achieved, as they are a seasonal (annual) assessment. People get sucked in by them because - simply - they don’t know any better and the figures are made to look impressive. In actual fact, they tell only a small part of a school’s academic credentials!

David says:

09:26am | 17/07/09

The author makes some very good points.

We all know that when an ‘A’ grade student goes for a job he/she is interviewed by the ‘B’ grade student who is running the company for the ‘C’ grade student.

I’m thinking about that poor Indonesian girl that I recently interviewed. She had an MBA but no life experience. I trust the company to a person with an MBA but NOT when that MBA holder is a 28 year old who hasn’t done anything else with her life except go to uni.

Court. says:

09:28am | 17/07/09

This is the biggest load of crap ever.  I pity the uneducated idiots who choose not to gain a university degree, they’re the ones who are a waste of space in this society.

JP says:

09:29am | 17/07/09

My experience of university is that this so-called drinking culture is a myth. As an undergraduate student, university was competitve and everyone was focussed on working towards a sucessful career. As a postgraduate student, the competition is now even tougher

Matt says:

09:29am | 17/07/09

Ha ha, very good. I myself spend a lot of cash on my uni degree for little knowledge and no career related qualifications. But I still had a lot of fun, met my future wife and wouldn’t trade it for the world.

Cletus says:

09:30am | 17/07/09

Replace the words “you will” with “I did” in this article and it reads very differently.

Whilst you may not have gained a lot during your university days, besides an appreciation of cask wine, I certainly did.

Irrespective of how many book chapters by great authors you may have read, one thing seems clear from this piece: you didn’t learn how to think critically. It seems that you didn’t spend your time mulling over ideas and constructs and writing carefully constructed essays. Instead, you had ‘awkward drunken sex’, possibly next to your collection of ‘half read books’.

It appears to be a trend in your writing to make sweeping statements on behalf your generation or peer group. Please desist from this practice, as you are giving all of us, especially yourself, a bad name.

Otherwise, if you really do feel that hairdressing is something you would like to pursue, best of luck to you.

Anyway, yes, you are right, university isn’t for everyone.

However, perhaps “Eric” and “Rationalist” could do with a little more education, starting with “How To Remove Your Foot From Your Mouth 101”.

David says:

09:36am | 17/07/09

the biggest problem with universities is not the arts/humanities they should remain there. The ‘left wing commie’ tag is a thing of the past with more and more conservatives undertaking arts. The biggest problem with the uni is money. Essentially by letting more and more students attend they are raising graduate competition. However the standards are falling. More students are going in so that more money can be made from the unviversity sector when they are earning through HECS payback, hence the universities have little (none at all) inclination to see students fail and drop-out (even if they should not really be there) as thats money the government and unviersity will lose from the following year. I am sorry but make universty a more exclusive concept again if you have to put a hecs increase on it and problem will be solvered

Sc says:

09:38am | 17/07/09

Enough with the stereotype of the promiscuous, drunk and lazy student!  Just because you wasted your time at university, doesn’t mean that all students do.  If you’re going to uni just to drink and party, you shouldn’t be there.  Work a bit harder, party a bit less and get a 1st in history, then you won’t find it hard to get a job.

To all those who think that arts and social sciences should be cut…what is the point of living in a world with no history, music, literature, art etc?  What a sterile place it would be!  Sure, we might have lots of money, great buildings, perfect healthcare…then we could spend our 120 year lifespan sitting round wondering is this all there is!  There is a place for all aspects of education in the world.  Go learn something new and open your mind beyond the narrow limitations of wake up, work, eat, tv, bed!  Whether it be arts, science, a language, a new trade, a new skill, it doesn’t matter!

H.K. says:

09:42am | 17/07/09

What a mess of unfunny cliches and drivel that article is. Clearly the author was never cut out for uni, let alone being a ‘freelance author’.

Michael says:

09:46am | 17/07/09

Daniela,

I agree your education has been an abject waste of time.  You strike me as being an absolute git who prizes nothing more than living the ordinary life path and wishing you had the fortitude to move off it.  Do not impose your failure as a fait de comply for all that graduate.

At what point did any advisor tell you that there was a guaranteed employment and success for you the graduate.  At what point did you perception of the world and its demands depart from reality.

I am a full time uni student and a full time professional.  Life is certainly what you make of it.  You have chosen to take a safe path and to whine about the consequences.  Please refrain from viewing your failure as a societal failure.

To anyone thinking that they want to further their future prospects: higher education is ideal.  however, it is worthless without a sense of drive and a thirst to compete in the real world.

It is popular to point at the Gates and Buffets of the world and say: ‘University
didn’t help them!’.  But it is unhelpful for the hundreds of thousands of school leavers who will never become a Gates of Buffet. 

You article was nothing more than slightly veiled self loathing cathartic swipe at your own life.

iansand says:

09:46am | 17/07/09

Wastes time at university and becomes a journalist.  Why am I not surprised?

Rae says:

09:50am | 17/07/09

I can’t relate to Daniela’s experience of university, as I had the complete opposite (i.e. I sat on lawns, read the works of many great writers and hardly ever drank), but I can see the point she’s making. As young people we are convinced that to get anywhere in life we *need* to have a degree. We finish high school and plunge straight into tertiary education, mostly without any idea of why we are doing it. I was lucky enough to know which career I wanted to pursue and used university to my advantage, graduated and got into my dream career, but so many of my friends started uni, changed degrees halfway through or dropped out. I think there needs to be more career counseling for high school students, or at least more of a focus on assisting students to decide what their next step should be after high school. University isn’t always the answer.
I also agree with the earlier comment about the distinction between university and TAFE. There is a stigma associated with studying at TAFE that shouldn’t be there as TAFE provides options for legitimate careers. Why waste thousands of dollars on a university education when you can study at TAFE for a qualification?

Mick says:

09:50am | 17/07/09

I agree with the posters asking for the “useless third” of the Uni population to be removed. Just go to any campus, you’ll see all the hippy losers hanging around the School of Humanities rabbiting on about how the put the kettle on and were the first to have discovered boiling water while the noble pursuits of medicine, engineering and science are having their precious resources stolen from them by non productive emo/hippies that arse about for 3-4 years with their “off the back of a cereal packet” ‘degrees’.

There should always be SOME Arts people around, merely to serve as a warning to others of course. “What do we want ?.........more-money-and-resources-for-Natural-Philosophy !....when do we want it?......noooooooooow !”

Rinse, repeat.

1111 says:

09:55am | 17/07/09

to “Court”: so if you dont go to Uni you are uneducated?? I’ve never been to uni in my life but am in a higher paying job that a lot of people that have been. I’m not saying uni is a waste of time (however it could be if you don’t think it through before hand). There are many other methods of learning if you aren’t lazy and value self improvement. Tosser.

Adam says:

09:58am | 17/07/09

You’re absolutely right…the fact that you wasted your University opportunity by jumping indecisively from useless course to useless course (probably failing most—5 years?? at various institutions??) and spend your time instead drinking and partying is absolutely the Universities fault.  It couldn’t possible be yours.  Next time may I suggest “Taking Responsibility 101”

Willy says:

10:01am | 17/07/09

Nearly half a decade of my life was “spent” trying to secure one of those professional degrees (Computer Engineering in my case), and accruing the debt that financed it.  In hindsight, I have almost never used any of the material that was taught to me in uni over the past 20 years.  ANY of it - and I’m an Engineer!

The material that has by far proven the most useful on a daily basis was already a part of me - self-discipline & motivation, largely imparted to me by my parents over the earliest parts of my life.  Uni didn’t teach me those things, although I used them to survive uni!  Uni, at least under the Engineering form of it, put student against student in a competitively charged environment that tended to destroy many souls along the way.  It was only when I graduated that I realised I wasn’t half as stupid as I thought I was.

Al says:

10:05am | 17/07/09

I’d have to say that the humanities are necessary for the following reasons;

1. We need more English teachers. The standard of spelling and grammar has rapidly declined over the past ten years.

2. We need more foreign language translators for export businesses. This way contracts and performance can be of a standard acceptable to both parties.

And in response to Ronald Raegun, Australia has produced several innovators in many fields whose results would have been severely disadvantaged if they were forced to fit in to American, Canadian and British modes of thinking. The greatest public health saving in the past twenty years came from the Australian educated doctors in Western Australia who won the Nobel prize by disproving the British, Canadian and American belief that the bulk of stomach ulcers can’t be treated by anti biotics.

Also one of the key reasons the Australian economy is outperforming the American economy during the global economic crisis is that Australia developed it’s own legislative framework with bodies like APRA preventing fraud and mismanagement unlike the States especially.

So Ronald Raegun I think you should think twice before insinuating that Australian innovation and thinking is not as good as British, American and Canadian.

Maybe if you had a liberal arts degree you may have been able to think through your position rather than making erroneous blanket statements.

Beanode says:

10:05am | 17/07/09

J.Gillard want’s 300,000 less on the unemployment statistics.
Those others - go to TAFE. Become a high paid tradesman and then small businessperson. Then you can go to all those humanities degree’d persons homes and charge them like a wounded bull for fixing their plumbing/electrics etc.

James Packer says:

10:08am | 17/07/09

Uni is a waste of time. If they want to teach something useful, teach networking and the art of bullsh*tting.
It will take you a lot further than that undergrad degree ever will

Jim says:

10:08am | 17/07/09

Sounds like a whinge from someone with no friends at uni haha. I had a great time, set me up for the awesome career I have now and don’t regret a second.

Oh and as for being poor? lrn2getajob.

Darren says:

10:08am | 17/07/09

I wish I had time at uni to do all those things, I was too busy studying Chemistry textbooks and working 2 jobs part-time to pay of my HECS debt.  It’s an easy life being an Arts student.

Andrew says:

10:09am | 17/07/09

I did an engineering degree and an arts degree, whilst working an average of 25 hours per week in various hospitality roles.  I put some effort in and did pretty well.  I also hung out on the lawns discussing big thoughts with other students, Yes I did drink a fair bit, but no more than I do now, or did at the end of high school for that matter.

So which degree is more useful to my current job, running and owning an engineering consultancy? Both. 
The engineering degree is necessary for the technical side of things but the lessons I learnt in Arts are essential for the rest of the activities that constitute running a business. 

Congratulations on not applying yourself to the degree you chose.  You wasted your time, I didn’t and nor did many of the other people commenting above.

MiningBoy says:

10:09am | 17/07/09

Spot on I think. Uni was quite wild (especially if you are studying at the West Australain School of Mines in Kalgoorlie and living in student accomodation). Uni was quite enjoyable for me. I didn’t particulalry learn a lot, nothign that is relevant to my job anyway. I see university as a place to learn how to learn. It’s not so much about learning things useful to your future profession but it’s all about learning how to flick through a 1000 page book to find that 1 paragraph that you need within 2 minutes.

In the mining industry i got a job before i had a degree and once i got my degree no one cares anymore they jsut ask me “what experience do you have?”.

Oh and to all those who say they don’t go wild and do thigns that are frowned upon by society… you were one of the following;
1) living at home with parents while studying
2) living with friends who are social outcasts
3) you are yourself a social outcast
4) you have no friends ... probably because 3 above
5) you actually studied all the time in the hopes of getting that job ... but then when you went for an interview you didn’t get the job because you are 3 or 4, above, while the kid who didn’t study at all and finished his degree with an average of 55% but developed socail skills talked his way into the job.

Bec says:

10:10am | 17/07/09

I resent people constantly claiming that the Humanities are useless and a waste of time. We aren’t all useless hippies, idiots or lazy. Some of us have a genuine appreciation of the value of the Arts.

I was an English major, and now I work in a centeral government agency, while my friends who did science and chemistry wait around at centrelink.

Talon says:

10:15am | 17/07/09

Our educations system is a joke.  Some institutions are very good at what they do and some students are highly motivated towards a rewarding career.  However education for without a goal is a waist of time and money.  Young adults are going to university because it is expected of them and they have no idea of its worth or what they want to achieve with their time there.

I have lived with an university graduate with a docrate who was writing a book on German filosophy while working in construction as a laborer.  He would do the dumbest of things but was highly educted.  In short he had no real life skills.

We have eighteen year old from overseas with more qualifications and on the job training who are more successful in aquiring jubs then us Australians in many fields.  We need to look at quality education where students aptitudes and interests are encouraged at a earlier period in their education.

What is this phonetic spelling for our young in school.  How are they learning to read and write?  Or isth isth te qaliti ov aur educatn mnsters.

Libby says:

10:18am | 17/07/09

A shame Michael’s university studies do not include French: for your information it is “fait accompli” !

Science Student says:

10:22am | 17/07/09

Are we forgetting that it takes all kinds of people to make up the world? It’s no lnger about bringing home the bacon and people who want to expand their minds in different ways should be free to do so. Yes there are people who don’t know what they want so they stumble into uni. More often then not they also quickly drop out. There is a place for these people at uni as much as there is a place for engineering students, law students and all other hopeful servers of society. The people that just want to think and stretch their mind over philosophical topics are just as welcome at uni.

ed says:

10:23am | 17/07/09

as a law student also with a bachelor of international studies, i agree with some points in this article. i find while my law degree is becoming more and more useful as a i progress through it, international studies I am slightly regretting because I dont really see how it is going to help me in the real worl. even the politics subjects i have studied- many have become defunct, because obviously politics is always changing. and it is very easy to just coast through such subjects, whereas in law you have to work really hard to get a credit or distinction.
to the commentor about publishing TERS- come on. fluking their top mark? i resent that. In year 12 i worked so hard for the mark i got and i didnt see it as a fluke at all. Schools have every right to publish TERS as they ARE an excellent indicator of how well students do at their school- i have said again and again that the teachers were so fantastic at my school and really helped me achieve me best. why shouldnt schools be proud? teachers work just as hard as year 12 students every year to get great marks, and there is no better indicator for parents wondering where to send their children to school. i am guessing you obviously didnt get a good mark and are still feeling a little bitter about it.

kim at allconsuming says:

10:37am | 17/07/09

I knew reading all that Chaucer, Plath and Plato while studying all that medieval history wasn’t going to get me anywhere. *sniff*

peter says:

10:37am | 17/07/09

If you just passed through a degree, even credit level - then you have in a lot of cases wasted your time.  Those that work hard and excel do use the knowledge they earned.  I did both.  I studied Commerce (accounting) and passed my way through not remembering anything.  I did not work hard.  Second I did Comp Sci/Pure Maths and got 16High Distinctions by busting myself and learned considerably which has helped me in my career 10 fold. 

For those besmirching arts/humanities.  It just shows that you are boring and want the world to be boring around you.  These are the subjects that help enrich culture overall.  The same argument can be had for funding art galleries, museums etc.  Why are they funded?  Taxpayers have to pay for that art, music, artifacts etc.  History helps us learn from those who came before us - but some of you think that we don’t need to have a soul and just learn so that we can get a job so we can spend more money.  Be a brick in the wall if you want, but I don’t mind some of my tax dollars going to someone that might pump out an awesome painting, or music that I might enjoy.

Same goes for those at the AIS.  That costs money - not every person at the AIS goes on to become a hero sportsperson.  Using the same argument we should ditch that too and just get down to work.

I take my hat off to those that study in courses that will never ever pay off with a job.  Thank you for making my world more enjoyable and enriched.

kym says:

10:37am | 17/07/09

Yep, your article is not that ..... ............... I spend 18 - 24 years getting wasted and partying my ass off. Now I am 25 and I need a uni degree to get anywhere in life. It is fact not fiction.

I wish I had spent those years studying and getting a degree, getting a job would be so much easier with that piece of paper rather than practical experience.

Chris says:

10:38am | 17/07/09

Agree…..
Best choice i made was not to go to Uni. In the 5 years that my mates went to Uni, i rose quickly up the ranks to earn 130k, i’ve worked abroad, and traveled 35+ countries, and I’ve bought a house… Oh with no hecs debt??
Can’t complain at all about NOT going

Bob says:

10:39am | 17/07/09

The author was an arts student. Explains it all.

Perthie says:

10:44am | 17/07/09

Australian Education is just WAY to commercial. We REQUIRE pride in our universities, required competition amongst all universities.
If we want the standard to rise, we need to stop pointing fingers and look to make base items such as Curriculum, standardised across all universities so that everyone learns to do a good job when placed out in the field. The only difference that there should be in unviersites should be in the number of courses they offer & the facilities they have - which is dependant on their commercial ascpects.
Unfortunately, everything in uni’s now days has become commerical & the drive to raise “sales” has formed the need for dumming down.

Julia Gillard should look to improve from an all round perspective - not just a monetary one.

And I thought that the article above is a load of toss… Im an Elec Engineer, I had a SHIT load of fun in uni, I learnt a lot, had my share of wild romps as well as intellectual debates. Now, Im earning a pretty great salary as well..
It all comes down to what you do with the opportunites you have & make for yourself.

Craig says:

10:45am | 17/07/09

Be an engineer, they’re awsome, like me.

JimboJones says:

10:45am | 17/07/09

Sharee I’m sure you had a point, however I stopped paying attention at “I’m a Psychology student”.

Impella says:

10:47am | 17/07/09

That was the most ridiculously biased article i’ve read. Did you go to university? or stumble into a brothel

M says:

10:47am | 17/07/09

I spent 4 years at uni, studied damn hard and worked additional crazy hours to support myself and pay rent. I also managed to find time to sit on campus lawns, make some great friends and learn the finer points of appreciating cask wine. I certainly wouldn’t swap my time at uni for the world.

University is certainly not for everyone and for those who go, their individual experiences will vastly differ. Whether you’re looking to study medicine, or humanities - if you’re willing to learn and be challenged, and most of all, apply a good work ethic - I expect your university experience will be far more fulfilling than this author’s.

AR says:

10:52am | 17/07/09

Quote: “But in my five or so years at various institutions studying a veritable swathe of subjects, I found nary a hint of this collegiate, intellectual ambience. ” - let me guess, you were enrolled under un arts degree, correct? only an arts “student” could possible write such innacurate crap. you disgust me. as a graduate of a REAL degree i think you should just crawl back to the rock from which you came. everything you said was wrong…except for the drinking…we did a lot of that.

Ray says:

10:54am | 17/07/09

Chris, try rising up the ranks now with no degree, you will be given nothing but a Janitor job at companies. Its much harder to get into a job now let alone get into a job with no form of proof of an educated mind. Maybe you did all this back in the early 90s when TAFE students were Senior Systems Engineers. Get with the time my 130K friend. because you have to always update your knowledge and skills and the only way to do that is via study.

Gregory says:

10:57am | 17/07/09

i paid around $3000 for the same degree fom tafe that on of my buddies paid $10000+ for at one of those “Audio colleges” several years ago. Today im a practising professional in the field and he’s a Woolworths manager, a job which i was doing when i was 19. Im now 27.

I rest my case.

MiningMatt says:

11:06am | 17/07/09

I think miningboy has a good point somewhere under all that arrogance.

Despite the fact that many people here are talking in extremes, I think one thing we can all agree on is to live a successful and happy life is to live a balanced life. All work and no play doesn’t work, all play and no work won’t work either - But a healthy balance of the 2 will yield a much happier person (with a career they can be proud of).

Owen says:

11:10am | 17/07/09

University degrees have been described as a means to an end, rather than being the end in themselves. As a comment has already pointed out, university degrees are often an essential part of the contemporary resume. If you study a part-time load (and fund it yourself instead of getting a HECS-HELP debt), then you can spend the rest of the time in the way in which suits the individual concerned.

As a university student myself, I would have to say that studying has: improved my spelling, sentence structure, plagiarism-avoidance, grammar, punctuation and many other things which may assist professionalism as a graduate.

It’s a means to an end; basically it is not the end in itself.

Linz says:

11:12am | 17/07/09

Bugger going to university. I’m going on the next Masterchef.

Andy says:

11:15am | 17/07/09

There is a University experience that provides the collegiate intellectual ambience you speak of - external studies after you turn 30, it is here that you will find people truly appreciative of the privilege of University and worldly enough to understand that there is a difference between the real world and the world described in the flowery meanderings of intellectuals. Plus they drink good wine and beer and most of us paid for our course up front (all the ones I know). There is an old joke that after your degree you get to use your professional sentence. For engineering it is “can we build it”, the economist/accountant “lets cost it”, the lawyer “is it legal”, the doctor “we can fix you” and the Arts graduate “would you like fries with that”

Adam says:

11:15am | 17/07/09

Sorry to say but Daniela has done exactly what she was employed to do, get readers! She may have wasted her time, or she may have made up some boulderdash to get readers and replies. Just cos it is in print (digital or otherwise) doesn’t make it fact.

Kudos Ms Elser.

Des says:

11:19am | 17/07/09

This article is offensive. The perception it offers of contemporary student life and university standards and expectations across the disciplines is false. I sense it is based on the author’s failure to come to terms with the intellectual challenges of her own studies and, based on her glib bio,  her penchant for dropping into and out of various studies and jobs. She seems to be well-suited to a form of journalism based on cynicism, half truths and ideological slop of which she accuses others. She apparently has held a mirror up to examine her own university experiences and life choices and found ugly. Why her uninformed views are given so much electronic clutter and space is problematic.

Modern Australian universities have series dilemma to face in coming to terms with consequences of the Howard years. They are doing so. Some better than others.  None are perfect or above criticism that is well founded. The thousands of students who have committed themselves to financial hardship and sacrifice to gain a qualification they seek or those working hard to gain access to a university and course of their choice in 2010 are not well served by tripe such as this article offers under the guise of serious journalism or comment.

The author has evidently stuffed up her own studies and initial career opportunities and it would appear, by the tenor of this “article”, now seeks to blame or justify her behavior on the inadequacies of others or the universities where she had a chance to prove her intellectual and personal qualities and evidently failed to do so.

Her sweeping comments, prejudices, gross generalizations and distorted insights reveal a form of intellectual crassness that help explain why she found various and successive university studies difficult and why she asserts they are a waste of time for others. A waste of time for her most certainly. But, she should not, from her ascribed authority as a “journalist”, argue a case or position about the world of universities when, by her own admission, she failed to complete her own studies.  How can she have any idea as to the value any form of university study might have on the personal and professional growth and life/career opportunities for those with the intestinal fortitude to succeed and achieve that she was not able to do.

By all means write objective, evidence-based critique of university life and the follies, foibles and frailties of their complexities/vagaries and of student and academic alike.  However, articles like this do not serve current or future students well. By regurgitating time worn and unfounded gossip about the relative merits of Humanities vis-a-vis Engineering, Law, Medicine, etc she has added nothing to the legitimate debate about the nature of tertiary education. Just revealed prejudice and ignorance.

If your university studies were really as bad (irrelevant or whatever) as you make out then you ought to and could have done much to have made them relevant and better within the normal advocacy channels available to you at Sydney University and all other higher education institutions. Bleating about it now only points to your failings and not those of the disciplines you attempted to master, your student peers, teaching staff and so on.

By advocating that current and future students should think carefully about what they study is useful but also gratuitous advice. To suggest that some might pursue hairdressing as an alternative is breathtaking. It is insulting to hairdressers for one. It is arrogant in tone, cynical in nature and distressingly ignorant about the nature of liberal education, vocational training and for the commitment and sacrifice of thousands of students in universities and TAFE who are getting on with the studies of their choice. It also fails to recognize the sacrifice and support students receive from partners, parents and employers who clearly value what students do.

You can find more informed, sensitive, articulate, meaningful, useful comment about the matters you tried to canvass in most high school Year 12 common rooms,the coffee shops and cafes of inner western Sydney and on the campuses of TAFE and universities alike. If you cannot do better than write this material it is time for you to abandon journalism too and move on to your next mistake.

Perhaps go and have a taste of your own advice and go study journalism. You are lucky Sydney has wonderful study opportunities within TAFE and higher education centres in journalism and mass communication. You might even be successful this time round or at least value the opportunity given to you and squandered on each occasion previously. Upon successful completion you would then be able to write about a subject from an informed perspective, How refreshing that would be.

BScience says:

11:26am | 17/07/09

Sounds like the author did an an Arts degree, I wouldn’t do Arts for all the reasons she listed either.  The Computer Science degree I did was useful, and provided good fundamental knowledge of the things I would learn in the workplace.  Most professions will tell you that you learn the most useful knowledge on the job, the most important thing you will learn at Uni is is HOW to learn and what is important

Peter says:

11:26am | 17/07/09

@Ray
I have no degree.
I earn a salary of $200,000 +
I started at the bottom and worked my way up. Anyone can do it. Even today. You just have to be prepared to start at the bottom (and I mean very bottom) and put in the hard yards for a number of years before it starts to pay off.
I agree that you have to continually upgrade your knowledge and skills but that can be done at your local library, for free without a HECS debt.
Once students leave uni and get into the real world they will quickly learn that it’s all about who you know and not what you know.

ronald reagun says:

11:27am | 17/07/09

AL, 10:05, my comment regarding exams being marked in the USA, Canada or Britain related to the fact that employers have learnt from experience that exam marking by the students’ teachers in Australia, in both schools and universities, is highly suspect or even fraudlent. Those who would mark the exams in the 3 countries mentioned would be given a detailed copy of the curriculum that was taught for that particular exam. The advantage to business of this proposition is obvious.

M says:

11:32am | 17/07/09

No doubt there are a lot of courses springing up in our universities that I would consider questionable even at TAFE, but the fact of the matter is there are a hell of a lot of jobs out there that require uni qualifications. Sure, TAFE offers a lot of “equivalent” courses but they will never offer the depth of a course done properly at uni.
Sure there’s a few people, hell, even a lot of people in the last few years, who have done very well for themselves without going to uni and instead opting for a trade but this was in unprecedented economic goodtimes where people could make a 6 figure slary washing dishes - money was being thrown around. But in the last 6 months all these people who did fast track qualifications have been the first out the door when their employer has to cut back.
Yes, there are a lot of uni degres which will never amount to good career prospects and are usually occupied by “professional students” and maybe these shouldn’t be subdsidised, however people who have never been to uni need to drop the ill-conceived notion that all that goes on is partying. Look beyond the clowns running their drinking clubs and you’ll find a lot of people making the most of every minute they have to get ahead when entering the workforce.

Andrew says:

11:33am | 17/07/09

If this is an attempt to deliver a contentious article, congratulations. If this is an attempt to deliver an intelligent article, then you have failed. Perhaps your talents are best applied in a media that is less respectable that News Ltd.

Adrian says:

11:35am | 17/07/09

@Shree, good rant. But you might’ve missed the point. Your job requires a degree, but there are many that don’t .End of story

ab says:

11:36am | 17/07/09

im glad i went to uni, i have worked the whole of about 2 months of actual time in the last 10 years, and have been paid a tonne…. got my foot in the door, and allows me to play golf 2 day a week, whilst getting paid.. i spend the other 3 at home watching tv supposedly online doing work, or flying to pointless meetings in other countries such as japan, guam, or england… beats shovelling dirt for a living

stephen says:

11:37am | 17/07/09

To that indignant science student ; many years from now, (when your body starts to smell ‘cause its 4 hours from death) and you’re lying on your slab and your wife is beside you with tearful eyes (no,she can’t come with you, not yet) ...then you look down..“hey, l can wiggle a toe”  but then the ceiling fan gets slower, and slower… and slower, and suddenly you gasp and think…now what was THAT all about?... Well now you ignorant twat, DON’T COME ASKING US.

Thals says:

11:44am | 17/07/09

How about giving all TAFE students the option of a HECS debt? It would certainly make my life easier if I didn’t have to pull my tuition fees out of thin air.

Willie says:

11:45am | 17/07/09

Get real the lot of you. It’s the ‘hoity toity’ and ‘holier than thou’ folk vs the ‘free spirited’ and ‘labor voters’. Oh and the odd plumber has popped by with a smile and a wave from his hand covered in human excrement.

To those of you saying humanities is unnecessary and to ‘go get a real degree’ - I say to you - pull your head out of that uncomfortable dark place on your lower back and spend some time in the real world.

Perhaps the original author of the article is correct in saying university is a waste of time. You lot come across about as educated as an inflatable pool toy.

I have a science related degree (which was useless), a pilot licence, am a marriage celebrant, and have just started studying a postgraduate degree in journalism. I’ve spent the last 6 years as a Flight Attendant and worked part time as a charter pilot. I’m 26, homeowner, and while I am glad I don’t live in a communist society, I can see a few benefits to it. That said, I would happily bet that those posting above about communism probably assume it’s something you do at church, or know equally as little about it.

To those of you quoting your earnings, well done for you - it must make you very happy. Shame it makes you sound like a tosser!

Bruce says:

11:48am | 17/07/09

University is a good thing to aspire to, providing thats where you want to be and need to be. However, I can not help but feel that Julia Gillards real agenda is more about masking the increasing levels on unemployment.

Vamsmack says:

11:48am | 17/07/09

M I agree to an extent however I didn’t go to Uni but am a self taught software programmer and now make a very very comfortable living and work when I want. Its nice and didn’t require a $50,000 bit of paper to prove I could get 50% of the answers right….

Wells says:

11:52am | 17/07/09

Many of the kids at uni presently do not know how to spell, how to construct a sentence or how to do simple calculations without a calculator. They do not know the meaning of plagiarism, nor do they care (I teach these people). Seriously, people who do not know how to draw a graph, or pull out the calculator for 10 x 1000?

By increasing the amount of uni places, we will be lowering the bar to enter, but we really do not want the quality of students to decrease any further.

The money would be much better spent in giving primary and secondary students an increased quality of education. This basis would then increase the quality of school graduates, and university graduates, and increase the average education of Australians, whatever they decide to do post-high school.

Please, please do not lower the quality of entering uni students any further!

Steve says:

11:53am | 17/07/09

Todays universities are designed to cater for overseas students the local students are just polyfiller to used to fill the gaps inbetween.

MF says:

11:55am | 17/07/09

“But in my five or so years at various institutions studying a veritable swathe of subjects, I found nary a hint of this collegiate, intellectual ambience.”

It’s called Grad School

I have my first class BSc (honours).  I have my PhD.  And I even got a decent job at the end of it all.  I still have a massive HECS debt.  I had my part-time job to pay the bills (because not all of us have parents to pay it all for us).  I survived on ramen noodles as my staple diet for years.  And I had a bloody awesome time doing it.  Just because you’re in one of the “harder” degrees, doesn’t mean you can’t have a good time while you’re at it.

claude says:

11:57am | 17/07/09

dear Michael,
what did you do during your uni days, get rejected by girls / boys?
f*&k you Michael and Daniela is an excellent writer!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jess says:

12:01pm | 17/07/09

What kind of low rent institution did you attend?

I did a law degree and an arts degree, and although I understand that my history and anthropology majors arent going to have big organisations banging on my door I learnt an incredible amount during my 5 years at uni.

One of the greatest things I learnt was how to analyse and disseminate information, how to construct a sound argument, and particularly, formal writing skills.

My knowledge makes me a more rounded person in my everyday life, and my skills make me a better lawyer.

If more people studied humanities there would be more understanding in the world, and less hatred and bigotry.

GERARD says:

12:06pm | 17/07/09

stephen at 11:37am:

WTF are you on about???

Don says:

12:13pm | 17/07/09

Please please please everyone do arts! The less people we have with engineering degrees and the like drive up my salary rate. Seriously, we need more artists and social scientists - stay away from my field!

Thanks

An Engineer.

Rob says:

12:25pm | 17/07/09

Des, I couldn’t agree more

Katie says:

12:30pm | 17/07/09

Yeah good one. Tell the kids not to bother. The alternatives are great. You can join the dole straight away in stead of in 4 years time! Not everyone can become Joe Bailey. What a piece of dodgy information. As if we don’t have a generation filled with enough bludgers as it is without encouraging them to stop studying.

auslander says:

12:30pm | 17/07/09

Only in this country is being completely uneducated, ignorant, and unskilled worn as a badge of honour. Nice.

lecko says:

12:39pm | 17/07/09

University = degree machines

I have a four year degree in science, a >$20,000 HECS debt, and little job prospects in Australia. I think the blame is to do with teacher attitudes at school, who if you show a little intelligence you are persuaded towards a “degree”. Whats got to change is the idea that only ‘intelligent’ people go to uni. There are trades which require high intelligence such as electricians, pilots, tool-makers. Trades also have better job security in my opinion. Look who have lost their jobs in this current recession. Graduates.
That’s why i’m throwing in my 20 grand piece of paper and looking forward to become an electrician.

Uni vs TAFE says:

12:44pm | 17/07/09

realto I’m right with you there… I left school and completed a trade, the time I spent at TAFE cost me a total of zilch and when I finished I was on a great wage, 10yrs down the track and I was sick of it so I went to uni as a mature aged student to study IT.  The whole uni experience was so fragmented, so ambiguous that after 2 years I realised if you really want to learn something specific e.g. programming then TAFE is the way to go so I changed over to TAFE and with in 6months I had learned more about programming then 2yrs at UNI.  So kids here it is in a nut shell go to uni to learn how to research, learn how to think about a problem and write endless assignments about all sorts of dribble.. go to TAFE if you actually want to know HOW to fix the problem or create something, TAFE will give you the tools to do it, uni will teach you how think about it from 15 different angles and write a 10,000 essay about it..

Max says:

12:45pm | 17/07/09

Surely this writer has no idea what she’s talking about; in what world does a hairdresser peform a useful function in society?  Regarding the “nation full of hairdressers” line - read HHGTTG.

Craig says:

01:00pm | 17/07/09

I was at uni in my early 20’s but quit to earn some money. for several years I was a landscaper but decided to return to uni to complete my business course. This was four years of hard slog but what i learnt was invaluable, I met some great people from different cultures. What was most graitfying was the path to earning the qualification. Sometimes the journey in life is greater than the end goal. Post graduation, i have spent several years managing various divisions and earn three times as much as when I was landscaping. The best decision I ever made was to go to Uni.

Stephen Anderson says:

01:01pm | 17/07/09

Quite funny and rings true of the 4 years I spent doing bugger-all.

It was more fun than being an adult, though.

TimDawg says:

01:02pm | 17/07/09

Surely a lot of people have lost their sense of humour over this article (discounting engineers, of course - who have none). The tone is rather tongue-in-cheek, and whilst it’s not accurate to portray all students from certain disciplines as the same (except engineers), a lot of accurate points were brought up.
I spent half a decade in State and Federal public service. They are both bursting at the seams with chip-on-their-shoulder Arts graduates, embittered at the fact they’re not pulling down six figures before 30. Sure, studying the Classics was a lot of fun, but unless you became a Classics teacher in some preppy school or paired it with a PhD in history and authored books, just what else was it exactly?
I loved studying moral philosophy and English literature at uni, but ultimately they didn’t help with my employment (other than to morosely quote Kierkegaard or Dickens when witnessing another injustice at work and watch it sail over box-shaped heads).
By all means study law, as long as you can make a decent cup of coffee and you’re aware you won’t be living the life of Ally McBeal two months after graduating. Study engineering if you’re a burly goober-faced twit convinced they invented beer. Study commerce if you have no soul and enjoy playing with other rich people’s money. Psychology - sure! Go ahead, accepting of the fact that it’s merely the study of people who don’t need therapy by angsty, preppy girls that clearly do. Sorry, Sheree. You’re ‘truly disgusted’ at so much, aren’t you? I hate to break it to you, but anyone in a monogamous relationship during an Arts degree just isn’t doing it properly…

Mitch B says:

01:03pm | 17/07/09

Any degree offered by the arts faculty is completely useless.

Alice says:

01:04pm | 17/07/09

There are plenty of successful people who have never been to University, their success does not prove that going to University is a waste of time, just as the success of a University educated person does not prove that you must go in order to be successful.

I agree that Universities are there to educate, they teach you how to think, how to problem solve, think outside the box, and challenge yourself and the world around you. As for guaranteed employment, I think you will find there aren’t any universities that promise you that. I believe guaranteed employment comes from smart choices about the job market and what is in demand. Those engineering degrees some of you deem as time well spent at University seem like a bit of a waste of time to me. Do you know how many unemployed engineers there are out there simply because there are engineers graduating from universities in droves?

And here’s me, a humble little graduate social worker sitting in my dream job right out of university.

As for University being a time of boozing and sleeping around. By some kind of miracle (according to this article) I made it through Uni one-night-stand free (amazing I know!) and since I was dirt poor the whole time, I did grow to appreciate cask wine and passion pop, but amazingly I could only afford to do it once a month on a minimum, whereas now that I’m in the workforce, it seems like weekly ‘Friday night drinks’ are quite socially acceptable. So who drinks more, dirt poor uni students, or full-time workers who throw a few back every weekend?

Sam says:

01:05pm | 17/07/09

I have a degree in Geological Sciences from Uni and have been lucky enough to always have good paying jobs.
Everyone i knew at uni doing arts and such are working in Mitre 10 or some crappy helpdesk with a $30,000 loan.
Dont kid yourself - Arts blow.

Trav says:

01:06pm | 17/07/09

I did a degree 15years ago, and it changed my life for the better. Now I’m back doing a PhD and I have every expectation that my life will improve leaps and bounds again. But I have to admit - I’m there to work and learn, not simply to be an oxygen thief as described by this article. The basic law of life is that you only get back what you put in.. Now there’s something worth sitting on the beach and thinking about!

f says:

01:07pm | 17/07/09

had a lot of fun at uni. studied my hobby and interest. never ever used that qualification. did something else and left the wage slave brigade forever at 24.  i did go back and do a masters in the subject overseas, but again because it was an area of interest and the country of my birth.

Emily says:

01:22pm | 17/07/09

I can’t remember half the stuff I learned in high school, let alone the last time I used it. But lets be honest, who is going to be hired first, the year 10 dropout who went to gain some ‘experience’, or the one with a uni degree?.

Well if its a career at hungry jacks then probably the dropout.

nicholas says:

01:37pm | 17/07/09

i agree with auslander, this is actually quite disturbing. i hope the majority of you are simply joking. if you are, thats fine, but if not, i am worried for our future as a nation…

Bluto says:

01:39pm | 17/07/09

Uni is for getting drunk and getting laid, unless you’re doing engineering or psychology.

Leah says:

01:41pm | 17/07/09

You ask what a 2.1 in history and a journalism post-grad has gotten you?
It has gotten you a damn cushy, overpaid (probably) plum job penning your opinion on a website. Sounds like a great gig to me!

nicholas says:

01:42pm | 17/07/09

oh, and i love the fact that the author of this article which insighted such responses has a degree in journalism, offered by… umm, the faculty of arts….

she is laughing at you… really…

Marco says:

01:42pm | 17/07/09

Hey I am a true communist—whats yours is mine, and whats mine stays mine and mine only

Kieran says:

01:45pm | 17/07/09

What garbage. Your failure to capitalise on the opportunities available to you has clearly resulted in you generalising this experience onto all tertiary students. The wry angle you aim for with your writing is predictable and also falls flat. I would have expected more from someone who spent 5 years at university.

Simon Beavis says:

01:50pm | 17/07/09

What did the arts graduate say to the law graduate?

Would you like fries with that?

MBA says:

01:51pm | 17/07/09

Do a business degree in a gowth industry and you will get a decent job. Business will employee peoplem that add value, not somone who has a degree in some obscure area. Pretty simple concept really; don’t know why people do several arts degrees and can’t find a decent job and are then surprised.

Stuart says:

01:56pm | 17/07/09

Well, what a pointless and flawed example of anti-intellectualism.  Where exactly do you think all the engineers, doctors, researchers, technicians, programmers, translators, and so on would come from without university training?

You don’t like public funding for education?  Too bad.  It’s necessary for Australia’s education system to operate as a meritocracy, and for the best students to gain places in the courses they choose.  And that is necessary for instillign the skills Australia needs into the work force. 

If you can’t understand the need for skilled professionals in a modern workforce liek Australia’s…then please don’t try to pass yourself off as an expert on the subject, Daniela

MT says:

02:10pm | 17/07/09

I recently asked my friend’s little girl what she wanted to be when she grows up. She said she wanted to be Prime Minster some day. Both of her parents, Labor voters, were standing there, so I asked her, ‘If you were Prime Minster what would be the first thing you would do?’

She replied, ‘I’d give food and houses to all the homeless people.’

Her parents beamed.

‘Wow…what a worthy goal.’ I told her, ‘But you don’t have to wait until you’re Prime Minster to do that. You can come over to my house and mow the lawn, pull weeds, and sweep my yard, and I’ll pay you $50. Then I’ll take you over to the grocery store where a homeless guy hangs out, and you can give him the $50 to use toward food and a new house.’

She thought that over for a few seconds; then she looked me straight in the eye and asked, ‘Why doesn’t the homeless guy come over and do the work, and you just pay him the $50?’

I said, ‘Welcome to the Liberal Party.’

... Her parents still aren’t speaking to me.

Politically Agnostic says:

02:52pm | 17/07/09

@MT: I’m not sure why you think your blatantly contrived (and obviously fictitious) anecdote is relevant to the above article, but if there one thing you can learn at uni, it is that we do not work in a frictionless economy (on which your anecdote is based).

PS: Labor has it’s own issues, but this is not one of them.

Rob says:

02:53pm | 17/07/09

Where did you cut and paste that from MT (@ 2:10pm)
Heard it before, maybe you should go to uni and learn how to avoid plagiarism.

Ian says:

02:57pm | 17/07/09

Hmm, i don’t know about others, but im a Software engineer and I have gained vast amounts of technical knowledge at uni which has allowed me to start my own business. A time and place for everything, do away with all the bullshit hippy crap at uni (like arts) and spend the money on the disciplines that matter.

T.C. says:

03:00pm | 17/07/09

@Sheree, that’s quite an explosive diatribe you’ve made there. You really need to stop taking everything you read too seriously and chill out. Or see a psychologist.

@Court, If you think that all people lacking a university degree are uneducated idiots you really need to experience the real world outside your own bedroom.

@MT, absolutely brilliant!

jim says:

03:06pm | 17/07/09

I couldn’t agree more. I have a massive HECS debt, that eats out of my tax return every year. I studied engineering, and ended up in a call centre. Nice one NSW. What a waste of my time and life.

Everyone else just boozes every friday night

R says:

03:15pm | 17/07/09

@T.C., yes, how dare Sharee be insulted by a joke article posing as real journalism.

Older than you says:

03:17pm | 17/07/09

Finish High School, Get a trade or join the Defence Force then go to uni.. Get life Experience.

Now where’s the booze?

Robert says:

03:20pm | 17/07/09

I did a B.Sc in mathematics and computer science.  I learnt a lot at university, in and out of class.

I have gone on to a successful career as a computer system administrator (we keep the ‘net running for the rest of you). I love what I do - going to work is like play for me.  I wouldn’t be where I am today with having gone to uni.

dmc says:

03:24pm | 17/07/09

this says more about the author than the students or universities in australia

basil says:

03:29pm | 17/07/09

I agree.  I got a decent ENTER score and undertook a Double-Degree in Chemistry & Accounting.  Where am I now?  I’m the Bookkeeper for a Manufacturing firm who pays me a piitance.  But, at least I’ve got a job, unlike some of the people I went through Uni with.  I’m seriously thinking about getting out of accounting and becoming a chef. 

For starters, I enjoy cooking.  Secondly, I’m good at it.  Unlike my current role, where I fail on both counts.  So 5 years at Uni got me a massive HECS Debt (yes, tit was still called HECS when I went to Uni) and a job that I don’t enjoy.  I’d rather do something I enjoy.  And just to finish off, Uni Students can’t afford sambucca.  When I went, it was cheap beer or the old 2 Buck Chuck - Passion Pop!

beacon boy says:

03:39pm | 17/07/09

I teach, a little bit, an you get a lot of students who prefer drinking to working. In fact, many seem unable to read books and journal articles with any serious purpose in mind. There’s not much use mucking about making little effort and then complaining. Uni is not about being spoonfed, you’re confusing it with primary school.

Universities should be reserved for serious non-vocational studies. Engineering, dentistry, accountancy, law and all that stuff can better be done better at TAFE or in specialised colleges. People just want to go to something called a ‘university’ for prestige reasons, we don’t need these big conglomerate organisations anymore. As you can see from these comments it just alienates people.

Universities, in their desperate efforts to get and keep students, have become far too soft. The new pass mark is 70% because of it. Every course should be required to FAIL the bottom 10 or 15% of students.

Anyway: “An economist is someone who is good with figures but lacks the personality to do accountancy” boom boom and “How can you tell when an engineering student is extroverted? He looks at your shoes rather than his own”.

Lawyer says:

03:45pm | 17/07/09

Why aren’t we all grateful for the fact that we have the CHOICE to study at Uni, TAFE or complete a trade?

In other parts of the world, none of what any of us have done in terms of our career or otherwise, is an option.

Be thankful we live in a country which provides us with the ability to exercise our free will. Others are not so luck.

ella says:

03:46pm | 17/07/09

thanks mum

Brad Coward says:

04:01pm | 17/07/09

Some of the dumbest mongrels I’ve ever met in my life, possess University degrees.  Sure, they can recite the entire collected works of Shakespeare off by heart and explain Einstein’s Theory of Relativity….but ask them to change a light bulb or boil you a three minute egg and you have an instant quivering mass of jelly on your hands who needs to speak to his/her vocational guidance counselor efore commencing the task.

anthony says:

04:32pm | 17/07/09

Internet forum stupidity stopped amazing me long ago. Your personal stories mean absolutely nothing to me. Particularly when they are exceptions to the rule. The guy who earns 150K, for example, without a degree, is not the norm. Seeing as we are sharing, though, I have an arts degree (history major), work in publishing/editing (not the blog kind, either), and earn a decent salary. Again, that means nothing.
The one key thing, however, which contradicts this article and half the duds commenting, is that there is a market for Arts graduates. Duuuuhhhh.

robbo says:

04:48pm | 17/07/09

Try the military experience instead of the university experience. Seems to be similar except you get paid rather than rack up a debt.

Rob says:

05:10pm | 17/07/09

@ robbo. Or better still, combine the two. The ADF offer many opportunities to study a degree and get payed to do it. There is a return of service but the way I see it is secure employment for the pay back time. Anyway, absolutely agree with you.

Lauren says:

05:12pm | 17/07/09

I am so over this ‘lets bash education’ attitude in Australia. Let’s be realistic… if you have a bachelor’s degree or higher you are more likely to find a job… don’t believe me. Stats out of the ABS has revealed that 86.8% of people with a bachelor’s degree are employed, as opossed to on 69% of people without any qualifications. In the US, that in 2007 the average income for people with a bachelor’s degree was $56,118 and those with advanced degrees $75,140. For people who did not graduate high school it was $24,964 and for high school graduates it was $32, 862.

Yes, you can chose not to go to university or TAFE and be quite successful, and you can go to university and not be successful. However, for the average person you do not further your education beyond high school and you are likely, over your life time, to earn less than your university/TAFE educated counterparts.

Don’t anyone ever tell me I wasted my time at university, I spent my time learning, broadening my mind and seeing the ‘real world’. I worked at least 35 hours a week in a variety of jobs while I studied. I had the opportunity to study overseas for 12 months. And now I am in a job I enjoy and what I wanted to do, earning enough to be comfortable.

For those of you who didn’t go to university, you made your choice and are happy. Don’t demonise me, because I made a different choice from you.

Jono says:

05:36pm | 17/07/09

You’re generalising here - your experience is one of an Arts student. I completed an engineering degree and haven’t once looked back to consider whether I made the right choice. I’m only a few years out of university and earning a comfortable salary. I am utilising most of the skills/knowledge I acquired at uni and continue to build upon those skills through work experience. My only regret is that the university experience couldn’t have lasted longer! Depending on the quality of tertiary education you receive, it really does prepare you well for life.

ruth says:

05:48pm | 17/07/09

yeah, yeah, but then there’re the students (my brothers and sisters among them)  who not only did the Arts degrees but made something of them ... writing, teaching philosophy etc. It’s a matter of perspective

Michael says:

06:38pm | 17/07/09

I did a Bachelor of Commerce with a major in Finance, but I still managed to fit in a healthy dosage of philosophical readings. Ironically the only person I know who’s well read enough for me to discuss those readings in any great detail with is an IT graduate. If you think you have something to complain about, just be glad you’re not in my position. When I started my Finance major graduates were getting massive salaries and earning big commissions. We were all going to graduate and go buy BMW’s! Then the Global Financial Crisis happened.

Steve says:

07:25pm | 17/07/09

I went to TAFE and earn a shite load,

garibaldi says:

09:25pm | 17/07/09

Lauren said:
“In the US, that in 2007 the average income for people with a bachelor’s degree was $56,118 and those with advanced degrees $75,140. For people who did not graduate high school it was $24,964 and for high school graduates it was $32, 862.”

These US figures are totally irrelevant to Australia. The income discrepancies are far less here. In the USA the minimum wage is less than half the Australian minimum wage. Professional salaries are usually far higher in the USA than Australia. 

In the USA all professional qualifications require a specialist postgraduate degree. Most undergraduate degrees in the USA are generalist BA degrees that don’t offer any actual qualifications.

In Australia you can earn $120k working as truck driver for a mining company - twice as much as a university Lecturer.

My nephew is 30. He left school at 15 to become a building tradesman. He bought his first house at 21, was a millionaire by age 25 and now owns a $3 million house outright. Had he gone to university he would probably be earning less than $80k and not own a property.

Fred says:

11:03pm | 17/07/09

After leaving school at 15 and doing a trade I went to uni at 28 and did a science degree…... What did I learn? I learned how to learn, an invaluable skill, one that you don’t need a box to carry it around with. Money well spent? Absolutely.

Steven says:

11:03pm | 17/07/09

Woe is me. As an Arts undergrad, I may as well throw the towell. Obviously my life is going to turn out like crap and I will gain nothing from it. LOL. Jokes is on the supposed journalist. My uni experience is so much different and so much better. And I don’t think I’ll end up in the gutter as many of you have implied. Oh the ignorance.

Matt says:

11:11pm | 17/07/09

As I sit hear at my home near the beach in front of my new laptop none of these things would have been available for me if it were not for uni.  Growing up just above the poverty line Uni wasnt really an option presented at school.

Uni is one part of life long education to compliment what you are doing or an opportunity to open new doors. I have enjoyed working with school leavers, mature age students and international students during my time.

Chris. says:

12:10am | 18/07/09

I am currently studying an Arts-Communications degree. It is one of the best choices I have ever made. I go to CSU in Bathurst. It’s a small university, but we have a great campus. People do sit around on the grass in front of the learning buildings and library. The campus life style and the dorm lifestyle is amazing. If you are a sociable person then you will have a great time here. You have to know how to balance it all.

It’d be the exact same thing if I chose to go to TAFE or straight into full time employment. You have to know how to balance your work/education and your social life. I highly recommend coming to university here. I have made some of the best friends I could ever have made in my life. I’ve been told by my friends who go to uni in Sydney and they hate it. They haven’t made friends in their classes, they don’t ever see the same people more than two times in one term. Go to a small university where you actually have a life, where classes are a reasonable size.

And for the record, my degree in public relations is one of the best in the world. It’s going to lead me to a very lucrative career when I am finished. Experience + a degree = fantastic job. The blogger clearly when to a university where graduates are just churned out. University is more than just getting an education, it’s about getting a life experience, and education and if you find out a few things about yourself along the way then it was all worth it.

Jill says:

12:24am | 18/07/09

I found my Arts degree particularly helpful in time management and productivity.  I developed the art of partying hard every night, sleeping during my morning classes and playing sport in the afternoon;  and still managed to complete all my 3000 words from the hours of 3am - 10am the morning of the due date.  In my professional career my productivity is invaluable as I can produce quality work within tight deadlines - I unintentionally simulated my degree to the real working world!

But on a serious note, I think there needs to be more resources available for high school students in career guidence and helping them make the right choices on whether uni is right for them, and if so which course will suit them best.  My school did not supply any career support, when I asked a teacher for some advice they told me, “you are too smart to not go to university, just put in some preferences in order of TER and see what you get…”  So I did! 

Whether you go to university or not should not be based on your intelligence, but your interest area and if the right job requires university, then go to university, otherwise take the right step to get you where you want to go…uni will always be there if you need to go back to it at a later date.

Jack says:

04:07am | 18/07/09

A lot of interesting comments. As a single dad I have lived and worked on four continents with my three children. Most of that time without formal academic qualifications. It didn’t affect our quality of life.
My life has been exciting and fulfilling in so many aspects. My children are now out there doing their own thing. Two with (science) degrees and the other with TAFE qualifications. (She earns the most)
This is the country where you get to make those choices. Empower yourselves with that. Don’t get on your high horse because you have a piece of paper framed on the wall. And don’t knock the ones who do – they’re working their plan.
With or without a degree, don’t whinge and whine about non-resourceful matters. Do something about it. Make decisions. As one of the older gen ‘moving on’ I’m counting on you all to choose to be a leader not a cancer. And make this an even better place for your efforts.
My great-grand-kids will thank you and pick the ball up when its time for you to catch up with me.

Pete says:

05:03am | 18/07/09

Don’t blame Sheree for missing the point - she’s studying “psychology”. MOST psych students miss the point because they’re constantly looking for the deepest, most complex “issue” as the cause. The FACTS are - and this is the point of this blog topic - that there are more university “graduates” making up our unemployment queues, while the bigger bucks are being made in areas that do not require a pretentious piece of parchment and some grainy oversized photo of someone in a god-awful, oversized black gown and kitschy square-cut black cap!

But then, you can’t expect a psychology student to understand that, can you?!

Here’s a tip for anyone about to embark on such a meaningful, rewarding study / career path as psychology - sometimes a scab on your arm is nothing more than dried blood on the surface of your skin. Dig too deep and all you end up with is a deeper cut and a bigger scab! (authors own words)

Mr M says:

05:47am | 18/07/09

It would be interesting to see statistics of taxable income for various degree programs. More interesting to see this information made readily available to students.
The biggest shortage of skills is in the trades area. Too many ‘career advisors’ have been pushing paraprofessional degrees and the difficulty in obtaining an apprenticeship makes many students ‘give up’ and enrol in a uni degree.

Scientist says:

10:21am | 18/07/09

Like everything, uni has its good and bad points. All my life I wanted to be an artist, so envisioned doing a fine arts degree. Then I realised that if I chose that, I would become a brain-dead, self-indulgent twat who would never earn enough money to live on. So I decided on my other interest, science. I did a bachelors, and was then told I need an honours to get a job in the industry. Did that, and suffered serious health consequences from working 80 hour weeks 12 months straight, and wasn’t paid a cent to live off either and left with a $25,000 HECS debt at this point. Then found out that if I ever want to earn over $45,000 a year as a scientist I would need to do a phd. Am currently doing that, and won’t be finished till I am 26 (8 years of study). Meanwhile I am poor, will never earn more than $60K for it all, and all my friends are at the stage of buying houses. Its all very depressing. I wish I had chosen teaching or engineering. There needs to be more career advice about uni - more stats about how much you REALLY have to study after undergrad and how much you will earn. I feel totally ripped off! Would probably be in the same boat had I done arts.

Matt says:

10:22am | 18/07/09

You know the thing they clearly need to teach at Uni and High School is how to be, protray and understand sarcasm.
Which is obvious from most of the comments on this piece a very lacking thing in the Australian culture now.  Please people grow up and chill out.
Yes I went to uni, and there were people who were the drunkards as discribed in this article as well as others who worked their arses off studying to try and get a decent score - because for some reason that’s all a lot of employers look for in a grad student directly out of Uni - or at least that’s what I found…if you have a high score you apparently are more likely to be able to do the job than someone with a lower score.

I concur though for a lot of people university and further education is a pointless and futile persuit, personally I think there should be a compulsory gap year between graduating high school and attending uni to allow people to figure out what they trully want to study or do with their time.

MF says:

02:17pm | 18/07/09

Scientist - if you get your PhD, you’ll be earning more than $60k.  I walked out of my PhD (I’m also a scientist) into an academic job that paid $80k, and that was an entry level postdoc.  Let alone what I could have earned had I gone into the private sector.  Your views on pay for PhD’s are a little outdated.  It’s not good, but it’s not nearly as bad as you make out either.  I spent 7.5 years as a student, it took up the better half of my 20’s.  And while others may have been off earning money in their unskilled jobs and buying houses, I was getting an education.  And I don’t regret it for a second.  I know in the long run I have the potential to earn a lot more money than they do.

Aleksis Hughes says:

04:25pm | 18/07/09

There are a huge amount of stupid degrees at university.  However there is a shortage of engineers (for instance) in the workplace (many foreign engineers, me being one, are welcomed to Australia with open arms and wallets).  However you can’t magically allow more to qualify, the entrants actually need to be bright/educated enough to pass the real courses, so the education system as a whole needs a facelift.  As for getting drunk thats just part of being young - work hard play hard has always been the anglosaxon male philosophy - the biggest drinkers at unis in my experience are engineers and others doing useful degrees, the biggest woozers are the pretentious w&nkers; doing courses that make them feel intelligent on paper but have no practical application.

Aleksis Hughes says:

04:30pm | 18/07/09

and for those that made comments that engineering would be better done at a tafe obvously have no clue as to the level of mathmatical/scientific ability required to be a half decent real engineer (no not someone that fixes stuff thats a technician not an engineer - I mean someone that designs (ie engineers) things)......

ME says:

04:46pm | 18/07/09

Your tertiary education is what YOU make it.  You get to choose the results you achieve for everything, for your entry score, your assessments, your fun, your approach to learning, and what you take from it. It’s your choice too to let it be useless for three, four, five years. You can change courses, you can take the uni to task if the teaching is poor.

Tertiary study of the arts, social science, and science not closely linked to vocation is valid.  Journalists, for example, need an understanding and ability to think critically about the topics they cover.

I loved uni, and all the doors that it opened.  I did a social sciences degree in 4 years while holding down a journalism job (no journalism degree) and becoming a parent. And we still managed to go to the pub once a week.  Perhaps because i was older and time poor, i had a clear version of what I wanted from uni. It was hard but the best thing I ever did for myself.

John in Alice says:

10:48pm | 18/07/09

I attended a university in the US in the 60’s and as a naive student expecting much higher standards than what was actually experienced and I imagine things have gotten much worse since then.  While the opportunities and an intelligent staff were there, most simply struggled through to get that key to a decent job.  I wouldn’t expect the average person to be prepared to really study and learn at the Uni level until they are in their 30’s or later.  For most younger students it is a huge party environment and a vast waste of taxpayer funds.

Jack says:

04:07am | 19/07/09

Well done Daniella. Great blog response. You are more in touch than most realise.

Rebecca says:

10:03am | 20/07/09

I had to do a four year degree just to get into the degree which actually taught me something. Revamp the courses so undergrad actually provides something you can use. I’m the only person I know who got a job that uses my undergrad history degree.

Heather says:

10:26am | 20/07/09

I do love the irate comments from (obvious) academic staff. I shall probably incur further wrath with my comment, but think I have enough “qualifications” to comment, given that I have attended four universities, in two countries, and in the sciences and the humanities, and am currently doing a PhD at another. Why pray, you may ask? Is it for my stratospheric salary, my professional memberships, and my vast expertise? Well, I earn less than 60K pa, don’t have any professional memberships, and I’m sure my expertise is pretty ordinary. No, the reason I study so much is because I enjoy it, I love the easy-going “removed from the real world” environment of university, and I am very good at it (as I should be, after 20+ years). Besides, then people think I am really really clever, when actually I am quite ordinary…as are most academics, they just WANT people to think they are so bright. In fact, some of the stupidest people I have ever met were academics; I remember the time when three highly qualifed academics, two Doctors and a Professor, were having a lengthy argument about how to turn on an airconditioner! Academic staff, more than anyone I know, have managed to perpetuate the myth (and maintain their hierarchical structure) that they are somehow, superior to others. In my experience, there are stupid people in EVERY field, and at EVERY level. Progression in ANY organisation, including university, has nothing to do with intellect, but on hard work, desire to stomp on others on the way up the corporate ladder, and aptitude for telling believable lies. 

However, I do think that university has a valuable role to play in educating professionals such as medical doctors, engineers, chemists etc; but I agree with the author that most Arts degrees are a complete waste of time. I got HDs in two, including a Masters, so feel free to argue with me. And as for Psychology, Sheree, you nearly made me choke on my cornflakes with your diatribe; purlease, the most useless of all degrees I have ever done was Psychology (for which I obtained a mark of 93%, it wasn’t exactly rocket science)...and frankly, I think that Psychologists (and Lawyers) have a LOT to answer for in contributing to our “blame others not yourself” type of society.

My issue with university, is that a university degree has come to be accepted as a basic qualification for almost any job. Frankly, as an employer, I would NEVER hire someone straight out of university, because I know that they are virtually useless, and have no experience or knowledge of the real world.

So what did *I* learn at university? Well, I can write really good essays and journal papers, which benefits me, as a semi-professional writer; I can argue really well; I can get any government job I want (IF I want); I can critically eviscerate someone else’s work; and I can scull beers in less than 3 seconds. Other than that, well, I can’t think of anything university taught me that I couldn’t have learned by reading or looking it up on the internet. Of course, THEN I wouldn’t have any pretty embossed pieces of paper, would I now?

To illustrate my point, aged about 35, after having worked in the corporate world for years, in real estate, property development and marketing; I returned to university to do an Honours degree in Science (which I passed in the First Class by the way). Honours was the most fun I’d had in years, and I absolutely loved the collegial atmosphere (all my other degrees were done by distance education, at night, after work). But I well remember the day a young woman, aged about 21, was complaining how hard it was…after I stopped laughing, I said to her, “try working in the real world for a few years, then come back and tell me how hard you think university is!”

Damo says:

10:48am | 20/07/09

I went to Uni straight after high school and regretted it. I obtained a Bachelor of Business, which taught me nothing about the real world, only theoretical nonsense that has no application in the real world. All my real knowledge has come from on the job training. Now i have a peice of paper and $20,000 of debt.
As a 17 year old growing up in small town country qld, i really had no idea what i wanted to with my life. But, they kept saying “go to uni! if you dont go now, you never will!”
So i enrolled in a generic business degree with little understanding of where it would take me. Now i work in local govt sitting behind a desk. Its cushy, but not very satisfying. Most of my troubles stem from office politics and i find amusement in watching people stab each other in the back with a smile on their face as they claw and climb their way to the top of the pile. Its sometimes soul crushing.
So im now looking for a career change.
I would advise any young person leaving high school to not jump straight into Uni unless you know exactly what you want to do with your life. Go and get a job doing anything, live in the real world for a while and work out who you are. Then do extra study either at Uni or Tafe.

Michael K says:

11:00am | 20/07/09

I think many of those self-styled “rationalists” here that are advocating for the removal of the arts and humanities degrees from university are missing the central point of earning a university degree in the first place: to learn. Attending university—like studying at all education institutions—isn’t merely about the job at the end of all those thousands of hours of studying and essay-writing. This talk about linking education intrinsically to the economy has been emerging in recent years, particularly in the light of Rudd’s so-called “Education Revolution” outline released in 2007. In reality education should be about making yourself a more informed person. And let’s not forget that everybody learns differently—cutting off the humanities would alienate tens of thousands of people from achieving a tertiary education.

Arcanum says:

12:07pm | 20/07/09

The problem isn’t Uni, nor Tafe, its High School.  In the last 3 decades we have come along leaps and bounds in adult education (from almost non existant to something that works most of the time), only to have NONE of it transferred to High School.  Instead teenagers are treated like children and have their hands held for them and low and behold some fail to transfer into the adult world of Uni. 

Uni doesn’t care and demands you own your work and (even legitament) “Dog ate my homework” excuses are ignored.  You ultimately control your destiny, albeit by how deeply you dig in your heels. 

I personally had great conversations, solving the problems of the world, on the lawns of Melbourne Uni, while I was going to RMIT (without many lawns of its own).

Finally, employers might not care about your degree to get you in the door, but they will be paying attention to its presense when going through any ceilings.

heather says:

12:15pm | 20/07/09

...and I can’t resist telling of my son, who is an undergraduate, who failed an assignment (psychology, LOL) because of a few exceptionally trivial mistakes (full stops in references, I kid you not). However, the tutor passed the main body of the essay, which, if she’d bothered to read it, which she obviously didn’t; showed he hadn’t the slightest understanding of the topic (aren’t I a good mummy for not doing his work)! This, mind you, is at a regional university, which regularly scores highly, not on standard of education, but on “student satisfaction”! I ask, is the aim of a university to pass on knowledge and to foster understanding of complex subjects; or is it to perpetuate mindless bureaucratic practices that are utterly useless to the vast majority of students, who just need that piece of paper to get a specific job? What percentage of undergraduate students, pray, are likely to go on to higher studies, and thus need meticulously correct referencing, or for that matter, EVER write a journal article (incidentally, I regularly review journal articles from academics, and most are riddled with mistakes…) And we won’t mention degree mills and international student fees either, shall we…

Formersnag says:

02:32pm | 20/07/09

The good old USSR had more phd’s per capita than any nation on earth before or since. Did it get them anywhere?

miantiao says:

08:36am | 21/07/09

And westerners think they came up with post-structuralism! Here is an excerpt from the teachings of ‘The School of Names’ circa 4C BC.

A white horse is not a horse.

However, i agree with the scribe. Students do need a good grasp post-structuralist thought, in order to better be able to discern shit from clay.

miantiao says:

08:56am | 21/07/09

How to graduate with HD’s in Arts 101.
Targeted research: Nail down the political and ideological standpoints of your lecuturers, and pander to them.

There’s plenty of time to propagate personal points of view and conduct research based on your own curiosities after you graduate.

Hegel ,Marx, Engels, Lenin, Foucoult,  back these boys and your in like Flynn.

Oliver says:

12:21am | 30/07/09

I’m sensing a little bitterness in the air here… could it be that some of our number are unhappy with the paths they trod?

I’ll try to be succinct: if you have bad qualifications, that’s not the fault of your university, the government, or your peers.  If you have good qualifications but are still unemployable, that is not the fault of your university, the government or your peers.  If you cannot afford to pay off your HECS debt…  Well, nevermind.  You can afford to pay off your HECS debt.  The system is very carefully tuned to make sure that you can. 

University is a very useful thing to go through.  Anyone who says it isn’t is doing it wrong.  Sure, its possible to sidle your way through three years of an arts degree and come out with nothing to show for it but liver damage, but that takes a real flair for rudderlessness.  You might as well say, “Don’t bother going to high school, you’ll only spend a lot and come out with an OP of 21 and a C-minus in workshop practices.”  Not every degree directly serves your future career, but all knowledge is useful and as long as you don’t TRY to make your life a failure, university won’t make it one on your behalf.  A good stint in university doesn’t just teach you how to hold your sambuca (although even that is a seriously undervalued skill).  It teaches you how to learn.  It teaches you how to think.  It teaches you how to get by on a cashier’s wage and how to find your feet in the world.  University is a good idea for the same reason a GAP year is a good idea.  By doing things that are directly useful (earning money, getting a degree) you learn a plethora of skills which are (obliquely) more important still.  You also learn about your fellow human beings. 

I’m in my second year of a four year degree - I’m studying a dual degree (Science/Arts) and majoring in Physics, Psychology and The Philosophy of Science.  When I’m done I’ll do honours in Physics.  Maybe even a PhD.  My degree probably won’t fetch me a high-paying desk job with a company car and a toy labradoodle to walk when I get home.  It might not even help me get a job at all, but I’m studying because I know I’ll find a niche somewhere, and this is as good a place as any to look.  I’ll come out with an intimate knowledge of at least three fields, a modest collection of friends, a Big Brown Suitcase full of books and a whole swathe of hugely important, incidental skills which I picked up just from hanging around. 

There are a few parts of the above article which stand out to me as blatantly, bitterly, jadedly wrong. 

First, one night stands (when undertaken by balanced, consenting adults) are actually quite a fun, rewarding experience.  Secondly, university students do, in fact, read.  I read a lot, for fun or study and often for both at once.  The illiteracy of individual students is not the fault of the university system, it is the fault of individual students and it has a very simple solution. 

Thirdly, I’ve only been at university for 18 months now, and I must admit, I haven’t been looking for the collegiate, intellectual ambience.  I haven’t needed to, because I have been engulfed by great musky clouds of collegiality and swamped by gentle, salty waves of intellectualism.  I have made good friends with my peers and haven’t found anyone I despise.  Just this afternoon I was lounging in the Great Court at the University of Queensland with friends, thinking great and portentous thoughts.  I have indeed come to skip quite nimbly through reams of Centrelink paperwork, but I can’t help but feel that this is an extremely useful life skill in and of itself.

Look, the fact of the matter is that the people who come out of uni embittered by their constant struggle against the people with fishes on their shirts were going about it the wrong way.  So too, the people whose only salient memories of are messy drinking games and indecently handsy engineering students.  If you hang out at the pub all day, do the subjects which seem easiest at the time, get your knowledge of the texts from SparkNotes and generally waste your own time, it’s YOUR fault if you come out feeling like you’ve wasted your time.  To the 300 000 future university students who are currently on the Clag-diet, I say this: university is what you make it, and anyone can make it worth doing. 

To Daniela Elsa: “Confucious say - bruised thumb is fault of carpenter, not hammer.”

Ash says:

02:44pm | 01/09/09

Heather there is something about the tone and the content of your post that makes me think you are deploying your aptitude for believable lies. You also sound smug and self righteous. For example ’ HD’s in two.. two what topics.. degrees ? And these degrees distance education and night classes are these the online variety, eh ? Are you sure they are reputable. My experience of university is that while there are many students who the high school system has classified as exhibiting above average intelligence, the truly bright students are in the minority. Bright people are perceptive, inquiring and possess an open mind. They have the skill to see things as they really are as opposed to how they think they should be. First class Honours while certainly an achievement does not make you an expert on everything.

JD says:

12:22pm | 16/10/09

tafe course for hairdressing… NO!! do a 4 year apprenticeship so you can actually BE a hairdresser when you finish!

Kristian Hatton says:

11:17am | 29/08/11

Wow, some students get really jaded at university

Lillian_Hawaii says:

08:54am | 13/02/12

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