Don’t blame the cattlemen for Indonesia’s cruelty

Steve - Albury says:

08:05am | 03/06/11

I agree Sir Ron.
And shame on anyone who thinks that as long as its now our cows, it doesn’t matter.
We shouldn’t stop exporting cattle, we should stop inhumane treatment of animals where ever we find it.

paul says:

08:12am | 03/06/11

and if the press stopped using words like ‘hysteria’ to describe less than a dozen slaughterhouses being prevented receiving our livestock, in an attempt to stop cruelty, in a nation of a 240 million people, meaning that most trade will still occur and few jobs lost, maybe the real story would get told and your readers wouldn’t think your reaction wasn’t ridiculous.

Graham The Great says:

08:20am | 03/06/11

Well Helen what are you trying to do?  Compare how a beast was slaughtered on that property, shot - dispatched quickly, humanely or where it was beaten tortured by people who still live in the stone age and supposedly facing some place in the Middle East you are kidding.  I watched the entire Four Corners program and was absolutely sickened by the sub human treated these animals received.  I further comment that if in the Four Corners program any of those beasts or the cattle they we slaughtering were facing anywhere is purely academic because it seemed to me that it was almost complete chaos, so on that point as far as I am concerned facing mecca was all bullsh*t so I would suggest that those beasts were not slaughtered halal or whatever.  Also my comment is that I’ve been around over my years and in the job I was in I was never surprised seeing what man did to man, or women or children the whole lot, I saw close hand how low people treat each other and to see something like this that really sickened me as far as I am concerned is way beyond comprehension.  Sure we have to keep our trade with these people going but the simple fact is we all turn a blind eye as we do in most things the Indos do or do something about it at government level before they get any more cattle.  What was happening to the animals was simply too horrifying to allow it to continue, and yes I eat anything that eats grass and will continue to do so but we do not buy anything indonesian and we avoid where we can anything halal!  Pretty much the same as we have people who continually make excuses about anything good about sharia law, that is also just bullsh*t there is nothing good about that either!  I am not being alarmist, I’ve seen these people at work and believe me we either stand up to all this islamic crap now or cop the consequences in years to come or rather your children or grandchildren will have to, subjugated by sharia law and islam!

James Ricketson says:

08:24am | 03/06/11

“Now we’ve all been whipped into a frenzy over it. We want to lash out.”

Please, Helen, the presumption that Four Corners has whipped we cattle-like viewers into a frenzy is insulting to both the program and we viewers. Those of us sickened by or concerned with what we saw are not “running blindly with emotion” in suggesting that we should not, as a country, be party to such cruelty. We are responding as we have for centuries to forms of cruelty that we find unacceptable. That the economy of the south of the US was dependent on slavery was not a good reason to support the continuation of slavery. That money earnt by children working in mines in the 19th C. helped poor families survive was not, ultimately, an argument in favour of the exploitation of child labour. The Northern Territory will survive the short term loss of a market – just as the cotton plantations survived the loss of their slaves and the mine owners the loss of their child labour.

Cat says:

08:46am | 03/06/11

The thing about animal welfare is that it is very easy and effective to build a campaign based on just the emotive scenes and facts. Most people do not want animals to suffer needlessly and will stand behind a cause that aims to stop that. There is no doubt this type of approach works well, but sometimes it does not end up working in the best interest of animals because, in all the emotion, research and facts which didn’t fit the bill were ignored in favour of any that did. People can become blinded by the emotion of their cause and won’t look at all sides of an argument and talk to all stakeholders in order to form a holistic view of the issue and come out with a workable and effective response. As someone who cares deeply about animal welfare it annoys the hell out of me that I am surrounded by so many passionately ignorant people! The RSPCA has repeatedly used its public image to garner support on emotive issues and people dont realise that they can and do get things wrong because they failed to engage with stakeholders effectively.  I don’t know the first thing about cattle stations, but I do know that when it comes to RSPCA campaigns it is increadibly important to do independant research on a subject before signing up to support their preferred sollution. The RSPCA have had to do backflips in the past on animal welfare issues because they ignored stakeholder input and the cost to animals was large and in some cases is still ongoing.

acotrel says:

08:55am | 03/06/11

@CJ Morgan I totally agree.  I heard one of the exporters talking on the ABC two days ago, and it’s clear that ‘papering over’ is the intention! The dollar is the priority, not our tender sensibilities.

Daniel says:

09:01am | 03/06/11

Sounds to me like you have been sucked into the industry spin and dont care about cruelty. just disgusting.

Sam says:

09:03am | 03/06/11

I call bullshit. Every cattleman has a responsibility.

Jo says:

09:16am | 03/06/11

I disagree with this article on a number of points.

1. The story on Four Corners highlighted the fact that the Australian meat and livestock industry has had 10 years to improve practices in Indonesia, and it has failed abysmally. What improvements have been made??? I shudder to think that the conditions over there were actually worse 10 years ago, I don’t think that is even possible.

2. Indonesia’s typical families can not afford to eat this meat. Most of the animals killed in the slaughterhouses end up on the plates of western and business people in hotels and restaurants over there.

3. Stopping our cattle going over there will increase the cost of them importing cattle, yes. But that in turn will decrease their imports due to affordability. 

It’s not an issue of us stopping our exports so that the cruelty over there stops completely, that would be extremely naive. It’s about the fact that as Australians we highly value animal rights and protection, which is evident in our animal protection laws. So therefore it is unethical of us to send the same animals protected by the laws while being raised here over to a country for slaughter that has zero animal protection laws, all for the sake of a dollar.

We need to set an example here. Zero tolerance.

And in terms of your statement of animal rights groups needing to get off the hysteria band wagon and work with primary producers, how incredibly ignorant of you. You might want to research your articles a little better next time.

arthur karvan says:

09:55am | 03/06/11

The writer is off course trying to do a white wash job, the evidence is nothing has been done and nothing will be done until pressure is put on the Australian suppliers. If they are not affected by these images then they don’t deserve to have the right to sell. So lets hear from them what they can do to change things.

Stephen says:

10:21am | 03/06/11

It’s high time some people in here get off the soap box and face reality, as clearly few of you have any idea what your talking about.

For starters, what makes any of you think that Indonesia needs jobs any less than Australia? They have no dole, and their unemployment rate is about 7%, that higher than ours, and given the larger population, translates to a lot more unemployed people. 

It’s a poor country, they don’t really care for our expensive cuddley steaks, they need food on the table, and they need it for less than we would pay for a Bintang.

I suspect most in here care little about the average Indonisian, so it’s a little rich for us to expect them to care about a cow. How about some of you put your money and time where your mouth is, as mouthing off on the internet is pretty easy. Doing something about this “outrage”, takes a little more committment.

Chris Johnson says:

10:22am | 03/06/11

Once again lazy journalism blames muslims and halal for this cruelty.
The RSPCA site says “The standard for meat production in Australia is that all animals must be effectively stunned (unconscious) prior to slaughter. The most common form of halal slaughter complies with the Australian standard.”
However of kosher the RSPCA says “The standard for meat production in Australia is that all animals must be effectively stunned (unconscious) prior to slaughter. Kosher slaughter does not comply with this standard.”
Anyone blaming halal and islam for this cruelty should be ashamed for the shameless negativity.

That said, I don’t believe in banning.  A ban may save Australian cattle, but not other cattle that pass through these abbatoirs.
Education and engagement is the answer, not prohibition.

Shane From Melbourne says:

10:25am | 03/06/11

Your analogy seems to be: Don’t blame the drug dealer for selling drugs. After all, they’re not responsible for what happens afterwards…..

Direct says:

10:52am | 03/06/11

Typical Australian racists practising cultural imperialism. Brown people should be able to slaughter cows that they paid for by whatever method their sky fairy orders them to follow.

scumbag says:

10:53am | 03/06/11

Easy.

1) ban all live exports to any country, (remember Egypt?)

2) process and package the beef in Australia for export to Mulsim countries. It’s been done before. Print instructions on cartons to have product face Mecca before consumption, if this acceptable to the buyer

3) if Muslim countries prefer to abuse halal traditions, and go to other countries with known bovine diseases for live imported beef, let it be on their heads, not ours

Australian beef producers have had it too good for too long, around 16 years, in the live export trade with this horrific cruelty,  and successive governments and cattlemen have been complicit in a half-arsed self-protective attempt to justify the continuation of this well known barbaric behaviour.  http://www.liveexportshame.com/

Zaf says:

11:15am | 03/06/11

Actually, eating meat is a pretty brutal thing.  (Though also delicious.)

[If the 500,000 to 700,000 annual beasts from Australia stop coming then they’ll turn to alternative suppliers; India and Brazil.]

The day cow-worshipping India starts exporting cattle to Indonesia for slaughter is the day the sun rises in the West.  What a stupid claim to make.

St. Michael says:

12:06pm | 03/06/11

Whilst I’m by default for free trade, this amused me:

“India and Brazil are infected with the scourge of the livestock industry; Foot and Mouth Disease. If their meat infiltrates Indonesia it’s under a thousand kilometres from Australian shores. With Foot and Mouth Disease on our doorstep, the chances of our meat industry being decimated is very real.”

How straw man can you get?

When governments want to trump any individual rights issues, they always shout “National Security, Lives At Stake” without having to justify the argument.  This argument is no different.  It’s also fallacious.  Foot and Mouth is not a humane treatment issue, it’s a Quarantine and Importation problem.  If you’re scared of foot and mouth, talk to AQIS about it, not the bloody RSPCA.  Christ, I get sick of tangential argumentsl ike this.  Shows a lack of balls to confront the real issue.

As for the warm, touchy-feely stuff about how the cattlemen love their cattle and think of them as buddies: will the Four Corners story prompt any of them to not put Flossie onto the ship, knowing their buddy could face a tortured, agonising death?
I doubt it.  They’ll still roll the chambers and cross their fingers that Flossie ends up at a “good” abbatoir.

Robert S McCormick says:

12:20pm | 03/06/11

I would agree that we should not blame the farmers breed & grow the cattle ...BUT… what about the Australian Meat & Livestock Corporation or /Association? They have been on the ground in Indonesia for many, many years, as have those Australians who run the feedlots in Indonesia. They all must have known of the horrendous cruelty being kicked/hamde out to those animals yet they did nothing.
Those steel boxes the cattle are driven into were quite obviously designed for use with a Stun Gun. That the AMLC (or is it AMLA?) even thought of installing those boxes without supplying the Stun Guns & insisting they be used was sheer negligence by them. It is perfectly obvious to anyone with even a quarter of a brain that the steep ramp outside those boxes was designed to take an animal which had been knocked out.
This is, of course, typical of people who are supposed to be over-seeing anything. For them it is a matter of “Out of Sight, Out of Mind” & quite obviously their attitude is that so long as those back in Australia, and in other countries, don’t find out it doesn’t matter.
If the Feedlot owner/managers based in Indonesia claim they did not know what was going on right under their noses We say this: We don’t believe you.
As for the AMLC the whole bloody lot of them, from the CEO, Directors, managerail staff all the way down to the lowliest clerk should be immediately sacked. Be they based in Indonesia, any other country &, more particularly, those based here in Australia. No exceptions. Sack the whole bloody lot of them. They all knew what was going on. They simply did not care.
Well, ladies & gents, we did find out what you were allowing to occur & you all should be charged with Excessive, Unnecessary Cruelty to Animals.
PS. If the Federal Minister does not ban all these sorts of live animal exports then he should be sacked.

bikinis on top says:

12:36pm | 03/06/11

Eat fish on fridays
Don’t eat meat on fridays

bikinis on top says:

12:38pm | 03/06/11

The Spice Islands add spice to Indonesian life.

Harquebus says:

01:04pm | 03/06/11

We should not be encouraging religious practices. This is the 21st century.

Craig says:

01:09pm | 03/06/11

Oh, okay, those nice farmers disapprove of the naughty Indonesian slaughter processes, and have made a couple of token gestures to stop it.  Therefore, they should be permitted to carry on as usual exporting cattle to Indonesian houses of horror, and making a nice fat profit.  Thanks for pointing that out for me, Helen.

Marissa says:

02:36pm | 03/06/11

Getting away from the bickering here…

Has anyone thought to mention the fact that when you stress a beast before killing it, the body releases adrenaline into the blood system which courses through the muscles and makes the meat tough?

Just a though, maybe this sort of education could be included in the whole “stop being cruel to the animals” lesson.

Gert says:

03:49pm | 03/06/11

I don’t think many are blaming the cattlemen ... Unfortunately the world can be a brutal place. Some of the footage was truly appaling, unnecessary and downright sick -  it’s been this way for thousands of years. On our planet life eats life

Adam says:

04:00pm | 03/06/11

Well written Hellen.

As someone who spent a number of years in the pastoral industry of NT, I can attest to everything you’ve mentioned in you’re article… I used to fly a Cessna 182 mustering out there and I also did the butchery and a million other things…

And YOU CAN recognise individual animals from time to time, AND know their history… even amongst 50 000 head! Quite often, that is how I’d describe the animals from the air to those on the ground via the UHF radio when mustering…

Country life is a different world to those who’ve never experienced it, and armchair critics need to be a little more measured in their criticism. And for the record, I too, don’t approve of the brutality, as I doubt anyone does. In fact, during the drought, I saw cattle that were trucked out of QLD to better feed in the north, barely able to stand and walk out of the truck and it would bring a tear to your eye, and I they weren’t even my cattle. Producers DO care, but rightly or wrongly, they tolerate other cultures and beliefs much more readily than their city counterparts.

It’s probably this trait and non-judgemental, down to earth DNA that has got them into trouble this time…

Brad says:

06:24pm | 03/06/11

I love it how judgmental we all get when another countries culture goes against ours. They have to kill halal that is there religion and it involves slitting there throat. I grew up on a farm (small hobby) and have seen a slaughter take place its horrific but its necessary for meat, i wonder how many people that are very vocal about this issue are vegan not just vego.

Has anyone considered that this report was made to look worse than it was to get ratings, I don’t think i have every heard of a media outlet doing this. Maybe these people complaining should get off there arse invest there own money into implementing procedures in Indonesia to combat this problem and spend less time making ignorant and ill informed statements on the internet.

ago says:

07:41pm | 03/06/11

i’ve only been reading pinch for a short time, but one thing that upsets me is the lack of respect for farmers,
farming was once considered the most noble of professions,
not only are we blamed for the drought, forced to battle an unfair international market, and sell into an even unfairer local one, we are blamed for others faults,
at present much work is done to try and educate the indonesians and the like better treatment of animals, the point has been raised above, but i will try to clarify it,
if australia stops sending stock to indo, will the abuse stop?
no, because the indos will buy the cattle from the next place.
will the next place (brazil, argentina,china) try to educate the indos?
no, probably not

so that leaves s with 2 choices,
leave and let the void be filled with countries that are not as compassionate us as awhole, or stay and try to change the culture
think about it, what would you really rather, helping to be part of a better culture where we can make some difference, or just sit on the sideline and watch the same business go on and be told to butt out, not your problem

Tom says:

08:02pm | 03/06/11

well put and well written

stephen says:

08:44pm | 03/06/11

The way to treat this abhorrence is to stop live cattle exports.
If we don’t, then we may as well let the Taliban have their way because of ‘Culture’.

Sharon says:

09:36pm | 03/06/11

No amount of money, religion, culture or tradition can justify this kind of barbaric treatment of animals. From the stressful sea journey to the markets and slaughterhouses, this inherently cruel trade has been exposed time and time again by Animals Australia over the past decade.  The most recent 45 minutes of sickening footage on Four Corners is just the tip of the bloody iceberg.

As a vegan for the past 10 years (vegetarian for the 6 years prior), I’m an advocate of mandatory school tours of factory farms and abattoirs.

A couple of very apt quotes from quite different sources:

“If slaughterhouse walls were made of glass, most people would be vegetarian.” Paul McCartney.

Lisa: “Do we have any food that wasn’t brutally slaughtered?”
Homer: “Well, I think the veal died of loneliness.”
~Matt Groening, The Simpsons

michael j says:

10:20pm | 03/06/11

THE well healed Grazier who is not farmer bill down the road ,but the face behind Multi-national Corporations that just happen to own stations twice the size of Tasmania and knows of the terrible transport conditions and extreme Cruelty
that goes on ? and has tried to step in and do something about it but because
of Religious tension does not rock the boat to hard why ? Because he does not want to because there may not be a monster TAX deduction to help build his already swollen coffers,,I know to argue otherwise is just bullshit,,
PROBATION’S would indeed be a terrible thing to happen to the M.N.C.s what on earth would they do , take a cargo of souls off the people smugglers and load them up with some Bullocks for the return voyage or else the poor people
will starve ,yeah rite mate GREED that’s all it is,,with prime Aussie steaks selling for $ 250 usd in Japanese restrants in the late 80 s ,the situation is not the same in Indonesia ,,you are correct in saying there are some are some hungry people over there ,indeed 9 million people starve to Death on this Planet each year, probably a few in Indonesia to,but do not believe you are feeding the poor ,,thats just rubbish,,even the ‘’‘meat-workers ‘’’ in that report would have been lucky to get a few soup bones or maybe a bit of offal that was on the floor too long,,,you are not a saint Helen,just a silly girl,,
@Adam -yes mate i to like to fly a Cessna but carn’t afford to ‘’‘sounds recurring ,,but true ‘’ but when you did your buctherey did you dispatch it quickly or let it die a slow death where it was aware of what was going on,,
the ladies from yesterdays article were saying the beast have feelings and were freaked out at their treatment,,i have commented a few times in The Punch indeed i have posed the question a few times ‘’‘Why do Calf’s Cry before they Die ‘’’ an observation made over a period of time when dispatching up to 500,000 cattle over a number of years,,1 every 55 sec don’t take long to add up,if a mistake is made you try to correct it as quickly as possible ,not cover it up,,as someone who has also raised cattle in the country with country people i fail to see any difference where cruelty is involved whether you approve of it or not,,Producers who know of Cruelty and do not do anything Do Not Care about anything but their fat wallet ,and i an talking about animals being Slaughtered not dying from a bad drought ,,
Just for interest ,i have worked along side Jewish Priest’s doing Kosher kills,,
and a Muslim doing HALAL,, if done properly ,in a proper kill-floor i could not say there is Cruelty involved ,,if a electrical stunner is used every one should be happy with a bit of education,,
carn;t let you go to bed without a nightmare,,on the mid-north coast of NSW
a farmer had a magnificent Brahma Bull A Huge Beast he used to take to the Sydney show , it used to win Grand Champion every year,,but he was very sadist to it often floggen it with a ,,yes,,Bull-whip ,,one year he had it at the rail-siding to put it on the train for the show,,he cracked the whip,,the Bull became enraged and turned on him knocking him over and then started Stamping on him,,some people tried waving the Bull off but to no avail ,the Station-Master had called the local Police Sargent,,all the time the Bull just kept stamping untill the Sargent arrived,the bystanders screamed SHOOT IT
SHOOT IT before the Sarge had time to work out what was going,,he emptied his service revolver into the Bull and it fell Dead ,,they shovelled the farmer into a few buckets and took him away ,,
Do calf’s cry before they die,,Do cattle have feelings?does an Elephant ever forget,,shugs shoulders, no go asking me i don’t know,,,,,,,,,

Averill says:

01:32am | 04/06/11

Halal is an ancient custom that was used to drain the blood from animals slaughtered in the desert. This helped keep the meat fresh a little longer. There is no need for this practice in todays world. The Imams seem to be able to change any other law they like, when ever they like, so it should not be difficult to persuade them to change the law about stunning the animal, if we withdraw all the money we pump into Indonesia - our ‘neighbour’.  Abattoirs and freezing plants could be built in North WA and/or Darwin. Jobs for Australians, a lot more money left in the kitty for projects that we need here.

PWB says:

07:10am | 04/06/11

The live cattle trade to Indonesia commenced in the late 1980’s and many cattlemen in the north saw it as a savour. The practice of Halal killing was well known back then so why the fuss now?
Braham cattle are an almost unedible species,( they were bred over a thousand years to pull carts and ploughs, also for milk and blood, not for meat) especially when killed in a stressed state so good luck to the muslims who try to eat them.
Of course if Australian Governments really though the trade through then all the cattle would be killed in Australian meatworks, by trained Australian meatworkers saving thousand of the Australian jobs lost because of this trade.(As is done in Queenslands West for the wild goat meat trade to the towel heads)
The origional arguement for live export to Indonesia was that there was no refrigeration in almost all remote areas of the country - I remember a producer laughing at the trouble a small group had securing a brahman in the back of an old utility complete with photos of the incident. You see the live export trade in cattle for firstly northern breeders and now further south was all about money - wasn’t long before the “big boys” AMA, Packer and others saw the value in live export. Experienced cattlemen knew that the Brahman was a wild breed, that’s why across the north the cattle yards are 7 foot high, railing or trucking to traditional meatworks in the south resulted in a lot of wastage due to bruising. So send ‘em out live - no worries!
To stop the trade now would be devistating for northern cattlemen. However they have all known how the cattle were treated in Indonesia - in the early years producers were treated to “Junkets” to Indonesia to see for themselves what went on - and to be well looked after with banquets and women - same age old bribery to turn a blind eye - nothing changes in our world!
Of course the most humane thing to do IS to stop the trade!!

Gary says:

09:33am | 05/06/11

Can’t believe Helen Parker has been allowed to use a keyboard again after her article on ADFA. Was then, and remains now, the worst written piece of rubbish ever produced. Perhaps Helen should’ve used her son as the key reference on all things cattle, just like she did for the article on ADFA.
The Punch should be embarrassed for publishing Helen’s rubbish again.

N.Lee says:

01:22am | 09/06/11

I lived on a cattle station woth my inlaws who owned it and i got to know many other station owners. Living with my inlaws i have not i have had the chance to see how the cattle is looked after to the point that your not aloud to hook your horn at them when they on the road becasue it unsettles them, we have also had some workers who thought they could be smart be they were sent packing in a heart beat. But not only have i seen what goes on on our station but doing school of the air i got to go to other stations and still not once havei seen the cattle be misstreated. Yes the cattle is their income but how many other people do shady thing to get ahead in life and why dont we talk about that why dont we see that put all over the news why dont we stop people or band them from their way of income but we dont we have to go for the good people the people who put food on your plate help bring the money in. when will it all end on hurting your own country put the money into helping our farmers keep their jobs and working to help the Indonesias to have a better understanding. what would you do if all your ever worked for was taking from you just like that its not fair on the farmers

and as for Sharron my childen would love to go to the slaughterhouses because they have an understanding of what goes on and why they have seen it all at the station and im sure that many other childen would be the same if they had the understanding of why it happensand it will not bring a growth of vegetarianism eating meat has been here from the beginning you are dreaming to think it’ll change that easy

trout says:

12:13pm | 09/06/11

Where are you all going to get your food from once you have sent all the primary producers broke? Third world countries would be the answer and if some of them treat cattle like this at slaughter how good do you think they will treat the animals if they are breeding them? Also our government stops live exports whats to stop a country of 200 million just coming over here and taking our cattle? Also maybe in the past if our Government had been more proactive with abatoirs here instead of closing them down we mighten have been in this situation.

smith says:

06:37pm | 14/06/11

timor leste, sumatran elephant and tiger, bornean orangutan, tropical rainforest and its inhabitants, mei 98 riots, bali bombing, and now aussie’s cattles.

I think in the future the list will go on. This country has a long history of ignorance and violance; probably a final solution is indeed needed for this assh****